Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio. That's the n h K Symphony
Speaker 1: Orchestra conducted by my guest today, Pavo Yarv performing Wagner's
Speaker 1: Dust Rhinegold The Entry of the Gods into Valhalla. Pavo
Speaker 1: Yarvi is one of the most in demand maestros in
Speaker 1: the world. He's currently the chief conductor of both the
Speaker 1: nhkse Symphony Orchestra and the tom Hall or s to Zurich.
Speaker 1: Over his career, he has also led orchestras in Paris, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Malmo,
Speaker 1: and for the decade between two thousand one and two
Speaker 1: thousand eleven here in the US in Cincinnati. Pavo Yarvy
Speaker 1: was born into a musical family in Soviet era Estonia.
Speaker 1: His father, Neme and his brother Christian are both also conductors.
Speaker 1: The family defected to New Jersey in night when Pavo
Speaker 1: was seventeen years old. As one of the most respected
Speaker 1: conductors in the world, Pavo Yarv travels a lot. When
Speaker 1: the pandemic struck last year, he found some freedom in
Speaker 1: staying put. It was one of those sort of amazing moments,
Speaker 1: because first of all, we never thought it would be
Speaker 1: three months. We thought, oh, it's going to be maybe
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and then things will get better.
Speaker 1: And then you realize it's going to be a bit more,
Speaker 1: and then a bit more again, and then you realize that, okay,
Speaker 1: this is now indefinite. We don't know how long it's
Speaker 1: going to be. And you know, something happens in your
Speaker 1: brain when this happened. I'm sure you went through the
Speaker 1: same thing. But I started. First of all, I was
Speaker 1: kind of restless, and I started learning the things that
Speaker 1: I was supposed to do, even though I knew that
Speaker 1: they were going to be canceled. And then I slowly
Speaker 1: started doing less of it. And then I started doing
Speaker 1: a lot of nothing. And and when you started doing nothing,
Speaker 1: an interesting thing happens. At least happened to me. My
Speaker 1: brain started working in an entirely different way. I didn't
Speaker 1: live by the schedule first time in twenty five years
Speaker 1: or thirty years. Even I didn't need to wake up
Speaker 1: at eight, I didn't need to catch the train, I
Speaker 1: didn't need to catch the plane or go to a
Speaker 1: rehearsal be prepared. And then all of a sudden, interesting things.
Speaker 1: You start thinking about different things. You know, why am
Speaker 1: I doing all of this stuff? I think this is
Speaker 1: so great to actually wake up in your own bed,
Speaker 1: and also to know that next day and day after
Speaker 1: it's also your band. And then you start questioning this
Speaker 1: sort of slightly philosophical things, like I am not so
Speaker 1: young anymore, even though I feel like a kid. How
Speaker 1: many years of active life do I have? Do I
Speaker 1: really need to be on the schedule like this for
Speaker 1: the rest of my sort of the schedule you've been
Speaker 1: on for quite a while thirty years. Yeah, the schedule.
Speaker 1: But the interesting you say that because you know a
Speaker 1: lot of people in the professional world I live in,
Speaker 1: whether it's acting in film and television or theater, and
Speaker 1: then maestro's soloists and so forth. They're like race horses.
Speaker 1: And what the COVID did was it allowed them to
Speaker 1: just go into the corral and to eat some grass.
Speaker 1: And they said, well, maybe I want to go running,
Speaker 1: but I do necessarily want to race. I don't want
Speaker 1: it to be competitive. I'd like to go run on
Speaker 1: the beach. I'm a horse and I want to go
Speaker 1: take a run for something exactly. And you realize that
Speaker 1: when you gave people these bunches of time, they started
Speaker 1: this journey to get back to their true nature of
Speaker 1: what it is they like, I think, exactly right. And
Speaker 1: I also think that you don't have enough time in
Speaker 1: your schedule or in your brain to really think. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a funny thing because I'm thinking all the time,
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about things that I need to think about,
Speaker 1: the things that need to be prepared. I need to
Speaker 1: learn this, I need to make that schedule. I have
Speaker 1: an interview coming up, I have a television thing, I
Speaker 1: have a recording whatever. But these are the things you
Speaker 1: have to do, and you have to because you have
Speaker 1: a deadline. But the kind of thinking that happens when
Speaker 1: you have no deadline is so much more valuable and
Speaker 1: interesting ideas start coming and said like why not? Why
Speaker 1: didn't I ever think about this before? Well, I didn't
Speaker 1: have time. I didn't have time, I was was no room,
Speaker 1: sort of trying to catch up all the time rather
Speaker 1: than just schedule heavily scheduled. Man, one thing you don't
Speaker 1: realize about people in the classical repertoire, I said, is
Speaker 1: these are people who know exactly where they're going to
Speaker 1: be on August fifteen, three years from now. Absolutely, they've
Speaker 1: booked festivals, and they booked concerts. These things are booked
Speaker 1: out so far. And but I want to pivot here
Speaker 1: and ask you as I was reading about your your biography,
Speaker 1: and I want to talk to you about popular music
Speaker 1: and rock and roll music and the boy from Estonia
Speaker 1: who had to smuggle cassettes of rock music and then
Speaker 1: set up a drum set. Tell me about your relationship
Speaker 1: and what I'm looking for really is the scene between
Speaker 1: the two. Are you a man who there was a
Speaker 1: sense of a duty because of your dad? I remember
Speaker 1: watching in the documentary that you said that your father
Speaker 1: had the classical music playing on the radio or on
Speaker 1: an album or cassette all day long, and in the
Speaker 1: middle of the family dinner, he go wait and he'd
Speaker 1: want to hear the passage or whatever the moment. Now
Speaker 1: was classical music something? It was a feed a complete
Speaker 1: for you because of your dad. It was a true passion.
Speaker 1: It was both And were you two different people that
Speaker 1: craved two different sources of music? I think the answer
Speaker 1: the first thing is that I think the difference and
Speaker 1: the distance between these two types of music is actually
Speaker 1: not so big. In fact, I don't really see any distance.
Speaker 1: I don't think that there is any difference between rock music,
Speaker 1: jazz music, or classical music if because on the highest
Speaker 1: levels of it, it is just as much hard work,
Speaker 1: and it requires just as much talent and requires just
Speaker 1: as much skill. Very specific to that particular field. For me,
Speaker 1: when I have dinner with with with my girls, you know,
Speaker 1: we listened to Eta James, we listened to you know,
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish, We listened to a lot of the stuff.
Speaker 1: I even play some of the rock music that they
Speaker 1: have no idea, but I said, listen to this, and
Speaker 1: this is oh, this is great, that this is led Zeppelin,
Speaker 1: let who fifteen and seventeen years old. Some of the
Speaker 1: greatest names in music history, pop music history are totally
Speaker 1: unknown to them, just like in films. And it is
Speaker 1: very interesting for me to realize that my girls actually
Speaker 1: know who Bah Who was Bad Home and Chekhov's Quarter.
Speaker 1: They don't know a lot of you know, if you
Speaker 1: say who would be to Gabriel, they say, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the greatest of grades, you know.
Speaker 1: And so the distance between these two fields, or the
Speaker 1: arts in general, is very short, and it's not actually
Speaker 1: at all for me. It was never that I wanted
Speaker 1: to become a rock and roll drummer. I just did
Speaker 1: it because I loved playing it. But I was actually
Speaker 1: studying drums in school, and it was a natural, totally,
Speaker 1: totally natural connection from just being a drummer, you know,
Speaker 1: like most of the bass players in symphony orchestras are
Speaker 1: all sort of quietly fantasizing being the great rock players
Speaker 1: in in in the rocky Yes, absolutely, and so it's
Speaker 1: not actually so different. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: was interesting that you just said, I was never forced
Speaker 1: into music. I love the fact that I never had
Speaker 1: to make a decision. I have two girls right now
Speaker 1: who don't know. They're very talented, but they don't know
Speaker 1: what am I going to do in life. I never
Speaker 1: had ever that question because I wanted to not only
Speaker 1: to be a musician. I wanted to be a conductor
Speaker 1: way before. Why because my father was a conductor. I
Speaker 1: love my father. I think he was having a lot
Speaker 1: of fun and we're very close to this day. So
Speaker 1: it was done. It was a done deal. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a conductor, and I never ever wanted to
Speaker 1: be anything else ever, and and so it is maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit unusual. But the point of the story
Speaker 1: is that I think that if somebody sort of makes
Speaker 1: it fun for you when you're a kid, it stays
Speaker 1: with you. You know. If somebody forces you, that's a
Speaker 1: different story. But I was never forced. Your family left Estonia.
Speaker 1: Your father conducted a piece, if I read this correctly,
Speaker 1: without what we're considered the necessary permissions back well, the
Speaker 1: audible Credo, and Credo is on the religious text, and
Speaker 1: Arbo Parrett was a kind of a dissident composer. Now
Speaker 1: he's of course the legend, you know, but my father
Speaker 1: was not supposed to do it, and he did it anyway,
Speaker 1: and it was a huge scandal, and it was basically
Speaker 1: it was bordering on a on a kind of you
Speaker 1: might be deported or you might be sent to someplace
Speaker 1: really cold, and well, then was happening when you were
Speaker 1: how old? I was probably eleven something like that. Was
Speaker 1: a young child. That's when you head over to New York,
Speaker 1: you know. We came to New York when I was
Speaker 1: around seventeen. But that incident sort of started the the
Speaker 1: whole term and longer processes, a long process. Yes, So
Speaker 1: you came when you were seventeen. You come and you
Speaker 1: talk about seeing as many people on the highway coming
Speaker 1: from the airport into the city as we're in your
Speaker 1: entire town or country. You're wearing all of us stony,
Speaker 1: exactly right, and you thought that no one's gonna find
Speaker 1: me here, No one's gonna I'm gonna get so lost here.
Speaker 1: You know, if you live in a country of one
Speaker 1: and a half million people and you're isolated because it's
Speaker 1: an Iron Curtain Soviet Union, you go to Kennedy Airport
Speaker 1: and then you take the highway and you see no
Speaker 1: four lanes this way and four lanes that way, and
Speaker 1: you literally you haven't even seen it in films. I
Speaker 1: mean it was that it was this dramatic, you know,
Speaker 1: So I thought, Okay, nobody will find me here. No.
Speaker 1: Obviously your father had this reputation. I'm sure when he
Speaker 1: came to New York he was not without contacts, without friends.
Speaker 1: He had people he could plug into here. Correct, absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: And in fact, my father was a very well known
Speaker 1: conductor back in in in a Soviet Union and in Europe.
Speaker 1: But you know, since the Soviet Union was closed and
Speaker 1: Iron Curtain was very much, you know, a real thing.
Speaker 1: The actual possibility to make contacts in the West only
Speaker 1: came when you were allowed to travel, and he occasionally
Speaker 1: was allowed to travel, and in fact, he even conducted
Speaker 1: in Metropolitan opera. He conducted on Egging and met a
Speaker 1: lot of local Estonian expats in in America. You know,
Speaker 1: in New Jersey and New York has a very large
Speaker 1: Estonian community. And you know, it was fun fact for
Speaker 1: you to perhaps to notice that that almost every big
Speaker 1: city in the world, but also in the United States,
Speaker 1: has what they call an Estonian house. That was a
Speaker 1: little community centers where Estonians would speak Estonian, would do
Speaker 1: the folk dancing, that would do the male choir singing,
Speaker 1: they would have the newspaper published, they would have Estonian independence. Observed,
Speaker 1: it was a little place in every in Chicago, in
Speaker 1: New York, in Los Angeles, in New Zealand, in London,
Speaker 1: in Paris, everywhere there was an Estonian house. So there
Speaker 1: are a lot of Estonians scattered around the world. And
Speaker 1: one of those people actually brought us and gave us
Speaker 1: refuge when we came here. When you get to New York,
Speaker 1: how does it begin for you? You knew you wanted
Speaker 1: to be a conductor. You eventually end up at Curtis
Speaker 1: and so forth. But what's the beginning for you when
Speaker 1: you land in the United States? How does your education begin?
Speaker 1: The very first thing is the language, because when we
Speaker 1: came to the United States, within speaking perhaps hello, goodbye,
Speaker 1: nice to meet you, and that was about it. So
Speaker 1: this was the first thing which had to be kind
Speaker 1: of dealt with. And so we lived in the house
Speaker 1: with our Estonian family, Pushtrums were their names. I was
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. So we went to the high school
Speaker 1: in New Jersey and it was in fact one of
Speaker 1: those really nice moments where we became and slowly learned
Speaker 1: the language through speaking with other kids. Are trying to
Speaker 1: speak with other kids, and of course they never knew
Speaker 1: what the Estonian is like. And they said, oh, there's
Speaker 1: two Russian kids, because it was with my sister, two
Speaker 1: Russian kids. And I said, no, no, no, we're not Russians.
Speaker 1: Were Estonians. Oh a Storia Queen's no, no Estonia. Then
Speaker 1: already applying to schools, I went to Julia Pre College,
Speaker 1: I went to a University of is How does that happen?
Speaker 1: Because of your father's reputation, that introduction that an introduction
Speaker 1: has made. No, no, not at all. No. In fact,
Speaker 1: what you have to do is that there's an audition
Speaker 1: that you send in new application, and you have to do.
Speaker 1: And you knew you wanted that, you knew you wanted Juilliard.
Speaker 1: I was dreaming about Julliard and I was. I got
Speaker 1: into a pre college as a percussionist, and from there
Speaker 1: on John Barnum of Estonia, I think there are better
Speaker 1: drummers than me, much better drummers than me in Estonia.
Speaker 1: But but actually there is a very very active rock
Speaker 1: scene also in Estonia. But mainly Estonia is known for
Speaker 1: its classical music of course, but but but the rock
Speaker 1: and the pop music, and it's it's actually very very
Speaker 1: big there and it's a very good some very very
Speaker 1: good artists. And what was the pre college program at Julia?
Speaker 1: How did you find out? What was that like? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, I had to travel every morning, get
Speaker 1: up at six from New Jersey, get a bus, go
Speaker 1: to Port Authority terminal, then walk. But that was a
Speaker 1: fourth It was a forty second street, the old fashioned way,
Speaker 1: not not the cleaned up gentrified Disney thing. It was,
Speaker 1: you know, and I barely spoke English so I always
Speaker 1: remember the moment where I was walking from the the
Speaker 1: terminal to Juilliard and the girl came up to me.
Speaker 1: A lady came up to me and said, do you
Speaker 1: have time? And I was sort of struggled and I said, yes,
Speaker 1: it's it's seven o'clock am. And then she looked at
Speaker 1: me kind of walked away in disgusted. I think she
Speaker 1: obviously didn't she had yes, she didn't really want to
Speaker 1: know what time it was. She wanted you to know
Speaker 1: what time it was. But anyway, so you made it
Speaker 1: up to sixty six Street, and when you get there,
Speaker 1: what kind of work are you doing? Well? First of all,
Speaker 1: we had theory lessons, we had air training, we had selfish,
Speaker 1: we had a percussion the major lesson. But the most
Speaker 1: interesting thing was always the orchestra. It was a pre
Speaker 1: college orchestra, and orchestra was full of really wonderful, wonderful musicians,
Speaker 1: a lot of them on a lot of them, but
Speaker 1: some of them I'm still very closely connected, and they
Speaker 1: are now well known musicians. And you would every time
Speaker 1: have an orchestra rehearsal, and the conductor was was rehearsing
Speaker 1: and you are playing timpani, and you are kind of
Speaker 1: all in that world. You can see what the conductor
Speaker 1: test tells to the strings, and you see how the
Speaker 1: brass players react to some comments, and you know, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, in the back of the orchestra, you
Speaker 1: are actually doing much more than learning how to play tympany.
Speaker 1: You're learning how the process of conducting is actually happening
Speaker 1: and what is important? How what are the things that
Speaker 1: you like about the way the conductor asked the musicians? What? What?
Speaker 1: What turns you off? What makes you angry? What makes
Speaker 1: you laugh? Who is popular? Who is less? You know
Speaker 1: it is it's a whole process. Yeah, and that process
Speaker 1: is very much to do with also human ability. You know,
Speaker 1: some conductors can know everything, but they can piece everybody
Speaker 1: off in the first three minutes, and nobody will want
Speaker 1: to hear what they say. And other people they do
Speaker 1: they close off, Yes, they close off, and they immediately
Speaker 1: build a kind of a barrier between themselves and the conductor.
Speaker 1: And you know, there is not so much love sort
Speaker 1: of laws between orchestral musicians and conductors anyway, from the
Speaker 1: kind of older history of the kind of tyrannical conductors,
Speaker 1: which of course now is not the case anymore because
Speaker 1: the society is different. But there is a kind of
Speaker 1: a built in distrust and musicians always listen to the teachers,
Speaker 1: and teachers say, oh, you know, conductors, they can be this,
Speaker 1: they can be that. So it was an interesting kind
Speaker 1: of experience to see how the process works. Conductor Pavo
Speaker 1: r V. If you love the stories of life on
Speaker 1: the podium, be sure to check out my conversation with
Speaker 1: Finnish composer and conductor Sapeka salmon In. When he arrived
Speaker 1: in the United States to conduct the Los Angeles Philharmonic,
Speaker 1: he loved leaving behind the arrogance of the European classical
Speaker 1: music world. When I started out in l A, I
Speaker 1: had this some kind of residue from this European thing
Speaker 1: that okay, I'm here to bring some kind of culture
Speaker 1: to elevate you. Yeah, this culture has medicine kind of
Speaker 1: thing which is vile. And it was an interesting process
Speaker 1: because I I was talking about things, you know, the
Speaker 1: way we used to in in your post days, and
Speaker 1: you know, with this kind of historic necessity of a
Speaker 1: tonal music and listen that and people were very nice,
Speaker 1: they said, oh yeah, great, interesting, But how does it
Speaker 1: sound asking these questions that are the obvious questions that
Speaker 1: everybody should ask, but we went for some reason asking
Speaker 1: here more of my conversation with Maestro Speka Salmon and
Speaker 1: here's the thing dot Org. After the break, Pavo Yarv
Speaker 1: talks about the role he plays in the orchestra as
Speaker 1: the conductor. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing. This is the sacrificial dance from Igor Stravinsky's
Speaker 1: The Right of Spring, performed by the n h K
Speaker 1: Symphony Orchestra in Tokyo. The conductor is my guest today,
Speaker 1: Pavo Yarv y. Pavo Yarv's home country, Estonia, has a
Speaker 1: population of just over one point three million and a
Speaker 1: thriving classical music scene, in part thanks to the r
Speaker 1: V family. Pavo r vs life and work was featured
Speaker 1: in the two thousand three documentary Maestro. The film includes
Speaker 1: interviews with famous classical musicians, talking about your V's talent
Speaker 1: and explaining the complexities of the classical music world. Violinist
Speaker 1: Joshua Bell goes so far as to suggest musicians playing
Speaker 1: at the highest level do not need a conductor Pavo
Speaker 1: r V wouldn't go that far, but he agrees his
Speaker 1: job is probably not quite what you think it is.
Speaker 1: Two things. Number one, I am not a decided per
Speaker 1: se because I don't believe in this. It's not an
Speaker 1: autocratic for me. That doesn't work. What works is I
Speaker 1: invite musicians to see my point of view. And when
Speaker 1: Joshua or somebody else says that we don't need a conductor,
Speaker 1: he they are really explaining it to a kind of
Speaker 1: a layman who doesn't quite understand the nuances, because what
Speaker 1: they don't need it is somebody to be the policeman
Speaker 1: in order to organize everything because on that level where
Speaker 1: he exists and I exist in a New York Philharmonic,
Speaker 1: and so they can play the piece together and make
Speaker 1: sure that it doesn't fall apart absolutely without you know,
Speaker 1: a problem without a conductor. Now, so one would ask
Speaker 1: why is the conductor important or what what's the role?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you my view of this is this, somebody
Speaker 1: has to formulate a point of view. That point of
Speaker 1: view varies from one conductor to another. And so that
Speaker 1: is why we still do some standard repertoire because some
Speaker 1: younger generation people see it in in in a different light.
Speaker 1: They have, but they have studied the score, they have
Speaker 1: studied the tradition, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: hundred people cannot make up their mind to be unified.
Speaker 1: If enough to formulate on the spot of the performance
Speaker 1: and interesting enough point of view, just getting through something,
Speaker 1: it's not the goal. It's making something exceptional and finding
Speaker 1: ways of making an old piece new. That's really the
Speaker 1: conductor's job. The other thing is that you know most
Speaker 1: of the people. If let's say you go to New Philharmonic,
Speaker 1: a fantastic orchestra, they have to do a different program
Speaker 1: every single week. Every single week, they have at least
Speaker 1: three new pieces that they need to master. They play
Speaker 1: all the notes they need to be absolutely perfect. They
Speaker 1: don't have time to study in depth all the scores
Speaker 1: for three new pieces. Every research it takes years. It
Speaker 1: takes years. If it's you, that's that's a conducted job.
Speaker 1: But I would never say that this is a kind
Speaker 1: of I decide or I I have a strong point
Speaker 1: of view, and then I invite them to see it.
Speaker 1: And actually musicians always look for that. They look for
Speaker 1: somebody who is going to open the door that illuminates
Speaker 1: something in the piece, and we're a piece that they've
Speaker 1: played a hundred times becomes maybe fun again because it
Speaker 1: has a little front angle, maybe a slightly a different
Speaker 1: point of view, and you know, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of subtleties that can make a piece sound new. Well.
Speaker 1: The reason sometimes I dwell on that topic is because
Speaker 1: theater mirrors the classical repertoire, because very often you're doing
Speaker 1: a revival of classic material. So the work of Chekhov,
Speaker 1: the work of Williams, the work of Miller and O'Neill
Speaker 1: are like all the great composers. And the joke we
Speaker 1: always tell in the theater is we know the material works.
Speaker 1: So if the show's a bomb, it's us, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we got it wrong. And the director's task is to
Speaker 1: do what you're saying, is to sell them a clear
Speaker 1: sense of what the film is they want to make.
Speaker 1: How do I sell you on my idea and get
Speaker 1: you to do what I think you should do? Now?
Speaker 1: As I often say for years when I was the
Speaker 1: announcer for the Philharmonic, I'm the bat boy for the
Speaker 1: New York Philharmonic. I'm not really a great pitcher or fielder,
Speaker 1: but I just love the game. So to speak. But
Speaker 1: when I see, like, for example, a very easy component
Speaker 1: of this or analysis of this is I'll go download
Speaker 1: a piece, and let's use a very basic piece. I'll
Speaker 1: get the Adagio, the fourth movement of the mall or ninth,
Speaker 1: and I'll see that high Tink plays it, and he
Speaker 1: does it in twenty seven minutes. And then I'll see
Speaker 1: that Mozzelle with the Philharmonic does it in thirty one minutes.
Speaker 1: It's four minutes longer. And so pace is of course
Speaker 1: one component. And I want you to share with me,
Speaker 1: is that in your your realm, you decide or you
Speaker 1: propose the pace of the piece, the emphasis, what are
Speaker 1: the knobs and dials you're controlling. One of the most
Speaker 1: fundamental choices that any performer has to make is a
Speaker 1: choice of tempo. And it's an interesting thing about tempo
Speaker 1: in general, because tempo can be a metronomic understanding. You
Speaker 1: can put the metronomes said, look, this is sixties, so
Speaker 1: this is exactly how it is. And that's very often
Speaker 1: how the click tracks and movie soundtracks are made, because
Speaker 1: it needs to be absolutely precise. And then there is
Speaker 1: a perception of temple, which is sometimes a great conductor
Speaker 1: can make a very slow movement so compelling that it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel slow, it doesn't feel like it never ends.
Speaker 1: And sometimes an inexperienced conductor or a less talented conductor
Speaker 1: can do it even a little bit faster whatever, and
Speaker 1: it feels like it never ends. And if you feel like,
Speaker 1: my god, this is dragging and this is so boring,
Speaker 1: And then you look at the timings and actually it
Speaker 1: was a faster performance that should have been easier to
Speaker 1: listen to. And so the experience of knowing how to
Speaker 1: say something has a lot to do with with knowing
Speaker 1: within the whole process went to speed up, when to
Speaker 1: take time, this material is repeating, they have to go
Speaker 1: a little bit forward and so on. So it is
Speaker 1: it is really a perception of time that matters. And
Speaker 1: very often an older conductor, as they get slower, but
Speaker 1: they get slower because they know how to feel that space.
Speaker 1: And very often the very young musicians they do everything
Speaker 1: on adrenaline and said, oh, they're so exciting, you know,
Speaker 1: But then it's all adrenaline and nothing and nothing else.
Speaker 1: You know. Sometimes you look at the old actors and
Speaker 1: they just pause in the middle of the dialogue and
Speaker 1: it's like there's a long silence, and it is. It's
Speaker 1: filled with tension and then some people, in some cases,
Speaker 1: people are afraid of being silent. They just need to
Speaker 1: fill every single moment with the word Conductor Pavo r V.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this conversation, be sure to follow Here's
Speaker 1: the thing on the I Heart radio app, Spotify or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Pavo
Speaker 1: r V talks about his favorite music to conduct. Ya,
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to hear the thing.
Speaker 1: This is Pavo Yarvi conducting one of Jean Sibelius's best
Speaker 1: known works of false Triste, performed by the Estonian National Orchestra.
Speaker 1: When the documentary Maestro about Pavo Yarv was released in
Speaker 1: two thousand three, he was the music director of the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. The film features many performances in the
Speaker 1: orchestra's primary home, Cincinnati Music Hall. It is a fantastic
Speaker 1: acoustics And the thing with this whole is that it
Speaker 1: was built by one of the theft was a president
Speaker 1: and the old old times and there's a women's committee
Speaker 1: in old times Women's Committee's got all these things done.
Speaker 1: If you were a president's wife who collected the women
Speaker 1: of all the rich people around you, and they built
Speaker 1: all that's right. And so what happened is that this
Speaker 1: was built for conventions and concerts and May Festival, which
Speaker 1: was of course the Great Choral Festival still exists in Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: and when I was there music director. I left about
Speaker 1: ten years ago, but I was astounded by how large
Speaker 1: it is. And three thousand, five hundred seats is a
Speaker 1: whole that is way too big for Cincinnati. Cincinnati is
Speaker 1: not a very big city. It's a great city, but
Speaker 1: it's not a very big one. So we started this
Speaker 1: campaign in trying to do something about this whole. So
Speaker 1: finally it has was renovated. It looks the same, but
Speaker 1: it is a bit smaller. It's just so gorgeous. You
Speaker 1: have to you have to say, redesigned the inside of
Speaker 1: the space, right, the same thing they're doing it at
Speaker 1: Lincoln Center, which you do that that the building is landmarked.
Speaker 1: And I think I've said this before on the show.
Speaker 1: We had Alan Gilbert on the show several years ago
Speaker 1: as he was leaving New York, and Deborah Borda who
Speaker 1: I must say, I've never been prouder to work on
Speaker 1: a board than I am on the Philharmonic board, simply
Speaker 1: because of the genius of this woman. Deppa is the
Speaker 1: one who she knew whatever schedule they had for their renovation,
Speaker 1: she said, we're shut down for the COVID and think
Speaker 1: she bumped it up like a year. She said, let's
Speaker 1: blow the place up. Now we're not in there and
Speaker 1: we're not going back, and then let's just start. I'm
Speaker 1: just so excited because they are going to have the
Speaker 1: most beautiful space. They took four hundred seats out of
Speaker 1: there as well, they took a lot of seats up.
Speaker 1: You know, this is one of those strange phenomenon that happened.
Speaker 1: Classical music somehow had to compete with the kind of
Speaker 1: large show business events, and in a way, the music
Speaker 1: is not designed for that. You know, at two thousand seats, okay, fine,
Speaker 1: three thousand, four thousand, it's just not the right music.
Speaker 1: It's impractical when you're in a town like Cincinnati. What
Speaker 1: was it like like explain to people where does the
Speaker 1: ensemble come from? Do you have to bring people there
Speaker 1: and house them or their natives of Cincinnati? Many of
Speaker 1: where does the where does the talent come from? I'll
Speaker 1: tell you Cincinnati. This is one of the very funny
Speaker 1: things about the United States is that most people in
Speaker 1: America don't even realize how much culture is actually in
Speaker 1: these smaller places in the Midwest. For example, you know,
Speaker 1: se Sinnati is I think like the second or third
Speaker 1: oldest orchestra in the United States. It was created by
Speaker 1: the same guy who created Chicago Symphony. It was totally German.
Speaker 1: You know, Fritz Reiner, who was a music director for
Speaker 1: fifteen years the ISA. I first job of Stokowski was
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. You know, the amazing legacy of of horror Witz, Stravinsky,
Speaker 1: all the great conductors and great composers, they all went
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati. There are there are pictures and if you
Speaker 1: listen to, for example, one of the most iconic American
Speaker 1: pieces that everybody knows, the Fanfare for the common Man.
Speaker 1: You know, that is commissioned by Cincinnati Orchestra, and many, many, many,
Speaker 1: many other historic things. So if you start thinking about
Speaker 1: all this rust belt, the best orchestras in America are
Speaker 1: in Midwest. Okay, there is of course New York Philharmonic.
Speaker 1: Clearly that is exceptional. But if you look at Cleveland,
Speaker 1: if you look at Chicago, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, you know this
Speaker 1: is not exactly the glamorous part of the United States,
Speaker 1: but this is an unbelievably cultured This is where all
Speaker 1: the German European immigrants went, you know, all the Californias
Speaker 1: and West Coast and also Texas. That's already an afterthought
Speaker 1: that music came later there. But Cincinnati Symphony was an
Speaker 1: orchestra where Stokowski was a music director. He became the
Speaker 1: greatest Stokowsky. Philadelphia Rhiner became the great Fritz Rhiner of
Speaker 1: Chicago Symphony. And so Cincinnati is really suffering from the
Speaker 1: basic image that United States and Americans have about Ohio.
Speaker 1: Oh Wio wild, Did I believe Ohio? You know that
Speaker 1: this is exactly the whole thing. That is a kind
Speaker 1: of a you know, stereotype prejudice to the Big Five. Well,
Speaker 1: a Big Five truly are great, there was no question
Speaker 1: about it. But but in today's world they have a
Speaker 1: lot of money. Yes, but I think that more than
Speaker 1: money even I think it has something to do with
Speaker 1: the legacy of long term relationships that they had with conductors.
Speaker 1: You have George Zel stayed all his life in Cleveland
Speaker 1: and clearly made sure that this orchestra is unbeatable, and
Speaker 1: that hall and that hall in Cleveland. Well, right now,
Speaker 1: I would say that Severance Hall in Cleveland, great as
Speaker 1: it is, without any question, is the Cincinnati is not
Speaker 1: any worse. In my life of listening to and collecting
Speaker 1: first on CDs and then downloading this relationship between the
Speaker 1: maestro and the ensemble. And I remember a consol who
Speaker 1: was the Cincinnati Pops conductor there forever he was there forever,
Speaker 1: I was always devouring that, as you said, that conductor
Speaker 1: who stayed and developed that rich relationship. Duti with Montreal,
Speaker 1: Slatkin with St. Louis Mata with the Dallas Symphony, Tilson
Speaker 1: Thomas and Francisco as a packer in l A. And
Speaker 1: so for the you in Cincinnati. But getting back to
Speaker 1: this question about the performers, are a significant number of them,
Speaker 1: or any significant proportion of them natives of Ohio where
Speaker 1: they have to come in for the season. No, they
Speaker 1: all become residents of Ohio once they get the job
Speaker 1: in in orchestra. You know, getting a job in American orchestra,
Speaker 1: it is it's a nightmare. It is so difficult. I
Speaker 1: mean there are people who try for ten years and
Speaker 1: they don't get the job and almost give up, and
Speaker 1: they say, okay, one more audition, and then then never again,
Speaker 1: and they get a job finally. You know, it is
Speaker 1: it's it's all behind the screens. It's extremely tough to
Speaker 1: get a job. So of course if you are a
Speaker 1: member of an orchestraine Cincinnati, you have to live there
Speaker 1: because you have to work every week. But originally all
Speaker 1: the musicians came from Germany. This was I mean the
Speaker 1: area where the whole is located, it's called over the Rhine.
Speaker 1: This it has it has to go back to local
Speaker 1: and it has a beautiful architecture. And the one of
Speaker 1: the largest October first outside of Munich is in you know, Kentucky,
Speaker 1: which is right next door. So it's a really German
Speaker 1: and you know, and the certain cultural sort of DNA
Speaker 1: remains to this day. And I thought the Greater's ice
Speaker 1: cream was the number one reason to go to Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I would ship I would ship Greater's ice cream to
Speaker 1: all my friends on dry eyes. I'd send them these
Speaker 1: cases and they'll all be crying. They said, my god,
Speaker 1: this is the greatest ice cream I've ever heard. I
Speaker 1: facilitated their addiction to Greater's ice Cream in Cincinnati, and
Speaker 1: now I have to go back there concert. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is that I left orchestra already more than
Speaker 1: ten years ago. But what I like very much, and
Speaker 1: I agree with you, is that these relationships that are
Speaker 1: long term are really worth something. And in a music
Speaker 1: business this is not so common anymore. People stay a
Speaker 1: few years and they go to another, you know, in
Speaker 1: all things, In all things, but I think to run,
Speaker 1: who really I love the people who build some thing,
Speaker 1: who leaves something behind it. So this is a clich question,
Speaker 1: but I can't help myself, because you know, there's music
Speaker 1: I listened to that I enjoy. There's music I listened
Speaker 1: to in the classical repretent that I don't really care for.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a big fan of Mozart. I mean,
Speaker 1: very chirpy, kind of complex as it is mathematically as
Speaker 1: multi layered and dimensional as some of these composers are.
Speaker 1: As we move, you know, further towards Stravinsky and so forth,
Speaker 1: and things get a little more layered and non traditional,
Speaker 1: there's nonetheless, music I listened to, which is I mean,
Speaker 1: I I remember I was doing a film and I
Speaker 1: told him I said this before on the show. But
Speaker 1: forgive me, but I'm trying to impress you here with
Speaker 1: my passion because in my life, if I had my
Speaker 1: life to do over again, and I mean, is I
Speaker 1: swear to God in Heaven, if I had my life
Speaker 1: to do over again, I'd be you. You know you
Speaker 1: told me that after I told you that stage in
Speaker 1: New York last time, and you came and you said,
Speaker 1: I want your life. Yes, I want to be you.
Speaker 1: To blur, to play, to play the piano, to all
Speaker 1: of them have to master some instrument apparently they all
Speaker 1: play something, and then to become a conductor. Because I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm racing from a show I was doing, or shooting
Speaker 1: a film, and they contractually had to let me leave
Speaker 1: work at five o'clock on four nights of one week.
Speaker 1: They knew in my contract that on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday,
Speaker 1: Friday I had to leave the show shooting a movie
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn at five o'clock so I could go to
Speaker 1: Carnegie Hall to see the shots Capel do the Mallor
Speaker 1: Cycle with Baron Boym and Boulez, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: see the maller four, five, six and nine, and I
Speaker 1: am late. I went home to change my clothes and
Speaker 1: I ran down. I'm going down Central Park West, and
Speaker 1: Obama was in town and the cops had everything shut down.
Speaker 1: And by the time I go in the back of
Speaker 1: Carnegie Hall and get my tickets and run, and as
Speaker 1: literally as my my ass hits the seat, I'm the
Speaker 1: last per since sitting in the hall. And as I
Speaker 1: sit down and I touched the cushion, the door opens
Speaker 1: and outcomes Barren to conduct the ninth. Now the music plays,
Speaker 1: and everybody's there to get what they want, I mean,
Speaker 1: if they're dying for this malor cycle. And the tears
Speaker 1: are just streaming down my face, and the tears are
Speaker 1: streaming down the face of everybody to the left and
Speaker 1: to the right of me. And this music touches you
Speaker 1: in a way that nothing else can exactly And the
Speaker 1: woman says that. The woman says that in the documentary,
Speaker 1: she says, this is a music that that that goes
Speaker 1: so deep. And I'm wondering, what are the pieces that
Speaker 1: you play that touch you? No, no, you can't pick favorites,
Speaker 1: But what's a piece or two that you play that
Speaker 1: even you're a surprise at how much it moves you.
Speaker 1: I would think that without any exception, it is something
Speaker 1: slow in Adago by Bruckner, Adago by Maler, something that
Speaker 1: is introverted. Like if you listen to the fourth or
Speaker 1: the seventh Symphony of Sibelius, you have this feeling that
Speaker 1: you have this this some something is just creeping deep
Speaker 1: inside you. It is not. It's not artificial, superficial, easy
Speaker 1: listening or Americans say, toe tappers, I don't this doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything. Really, what does something to me is slow,
Speaker 1: you know, like the end of the Mather three, you know,
Speaker 1: the last movement. It is just out of this world.
Speaker 1: And and yeah, I think slow music that really just
Speaker 1: gets inside yourself, which broke to the seventh. I love
Speaker 1: the seventh, but listened to the dodger of the of
Speaker 1: the of the eight, Bruckner eight a dodgo of the
Speaker 1: Bruckner six, unbelievable, Bruckner nine a dodger. But you know,
Speaker 1: Beethoven was the person in this ninth Symphony who kind
Speaker 1: of created the prototype for this great adulgo. You know,
Speaker 1: the ninth that the slow movement, and every composer since
Speaker 1: tried to kind of outdo him, because it was the
Speaker 1: true master knew. It was really somebody who knew how
Speaker 1: to write a a great a dodger. And that is why,
Speaker 1: for example, Mother often ends his symphony in the ninth definitely,
Speaker 1: but also the third with this incredibly soul searching a dodger.
Speaker 1: And and to me, slow music. Maybe I'm just getting old,
Speaker 1: but I always, I always loved slow and contemplative music.
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you something funny because you mentioned
Speaker 1: bottom Boy. I'm sitting here in the curranteen in Tokyo
Speaker 1: in the hotel. He's upstairs. He's upstairs, and he wanted
Speaker 1: to come and see me. They wouldn't let the people
Speaker 1: are so uptight here in Tokyo that they wouldn't let
Speaker 1: him into my room. And it is so funny because
Speaker 1: we are literally in the not in the same wing too.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to believe that the six ft of
Speaker 1: concrete and steel are separating two of the greatest maestros
Speaker 1: in modern music today in the in the classic root.
Speaker 1: And you can't have a cup of tea together, well
Speaker 1: I am. I am a kind of a martini together.
Speaker 1: I had a bottle already, you prepared with a glass
Speaker 1: of two. Even I got two glasses. They wouldn't let him.
Speaker 1: You'll have to toast over the internet. It's uneah. So
Speaker 1: we did. We were literally doing what we're doing now.
Speaker 1: And this is the story. You were married, you're not
Speaker 1: married now and you have two daughters. If your ex
Speaker 1: wife she was a violinist, a very good one, and
Speaker 1: you met her where I met her actually in London
Speaker 1: when I was well. I still live in London and
Speaker 1: between London and US, but she was studying in the
Speaker 1: Royal Academy and we met in London. Now I always
Speaker 1: tell people, and forgive me if this sounds odd, but
Speaker 1: that is I often find the talent is the greatest
Speaker 1: staff for Daisac. And if talent is the greatest staff
Speaker 1: for Daisac. And I was a conductor working in the
Speaker 1: classical repertoire, i'd want to get married probably two or
Speaker 1: three times a month. Talented women who are playing these
Speaker 1: instruments are just there, They're everywhere. This is one of
Speaker 1: those almost dangerous subjects in this diamond age. But the
Speaker 1: truth is exactly what you're saying. What you're saying is
Speaker 1: so right because you first of all speak the same language.
Speaker 1: You speak music. It's the your passion. Both of you
Speaker 1: understand it is so it is so obvious that most
Speaker 1: people in that field find their partner in the same field.
Speaker 1: And it is very difficult to even understand the idiosyncrasies
Speaker 1: and all the craziness that one needs to understand if
Speaker 1: you are not in part of the business. So this
Speaker 1: whole thing about you know, be careful workplace romances and
Speaker 1: all this. Yeah, on one level, I understand totally, But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, there is almost impossible to create
Speaker 1: a union that is really long lasting. And more and more,
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying, if I'm here you correctly,
Speaker 1: which is what I've suspected, which is more beyond the
Speaker 1: chemistry between a man and a woman, or two women
Speaker 1: or two men for that matter. Beyond that chemistry, it's
Speaker 1: the chemistry of the arts, exactly. The just nothing like
Speaker 1: watching all those tens of thousands of hours that these
Speaker 1: people have, hundreds of thousands of hours, and they're up
Speaker 1: there and they're doing their thing, and you sit there
Speaker 1: and you watch them all doing the same thing together
Speaker 1: in service of the same thing. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I think to myself, this is the most intoxic anything
Speaker 1: in the world. Now you're there in Tokyo. Just are
Speaker 1: you doing something with n h K or who are
Speaker 1: you working with n h K. I'm a chief conductor
Speaker 1: in n h K. I'm a chief conductor in Don
Speaker 1: Hello Orchestra Zurich, Deutsche Kami Filimony in Bremen. So so
Speaker 1: there is their geography is quite wild and and I
Speaker 1: have not been here because of the COVID now for
Speaker 1: thirteen months. So now I have decided as a chief conductor,
Speaker 1: I have to come here and sit through this current
Speaker 1: team because it's my orchestra, and I feel the loyalty
Speaker 1: and I feel the responsibility. Well, let me just say
Speaker 1: this to you. You are one of the most elegant
Speaker 1: men I've ever seen on podium in my laughter. And
Speaker 1: you are a great, great, great music inductor. But I
Speaker 1: hope we see you in New York before too long.
Speaker 1: We're dying for you to come back. Please, thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Conductor Pavo yar V. This is
Speaker 1: Pavlo yar V conducting the Estonian National Symphony in the
Speaker 1: Contus in memory of Benjamin Brittain, written by the world
Speaker 1: renowned Estonian composer Arvo part I'm Alec Baldwin, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Is brought to you by my Heart Radio