WEBVTT - Paavo Järvi Conducts Beautiful Music 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:05.200 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:40.159 from my Heart Radio. That's the n h K Symphony 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:45.320 Orchestra conducted by my guest today, Pavo Yarv performing Wagner's 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:50.159 Dust Rhinegold The Entry of the Gods into Valhalla. Pavo 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.280 Yarvi is one of the most in demand maestros in 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.760 the world. He's currently the chief conductor of both the 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.640 nhkse Symphony Orchestra and the tom Hall or s to Zurich. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:07.120 Over his career, he has also led orchestras in Paris, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Malmo, 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.720 and for the decade between two thousand one and two 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:14.440 thousand eleven here in the US in Cincinnati. Pavo Yarvy 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.399 was born into a musical family in Soviet era Estonia. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.320 His father, Neme and his brother Christian are both also conductors. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.679 The family defected to New Jersey in night when Pavo 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.080 was seventeen years old. As one of the most respected 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:36.040 conductors in the world, Pavo Yarv travels a lot. When 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.680 the pandemic struck last year, he found some freedom in 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:44.760 staying put. It was one of those sort of amazing moments, 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.440 because first of all, we never thought it would be 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.360 three months. We thought, oh, it's going to be maybe 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.200 a couple of weeks, and then things will get better. 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.760 And then you realize it's going to be a bit more, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.920 and then a bit more again, and then you realize that, okay, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.640 this is now indefinite. We don't know how long it's 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.280 going to be. And you know, something happens in your 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.160 brain when this happened. I'm sure you went through the 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.000 same thing. But I started. First of all, I was 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.280 kind of restless, and I started learning the things that 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.200 I was supposed to do, even though I knew that 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.880 they were going to be canceled. And then I slowly 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.440 started doing less of it. And then I started doing 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:31.280 a lot of nothing. And and when you started doing nothing, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.840 an interesting thing happens. At least happened to me. My 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.040 brain started working in an entirely different way. I didn't 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.280 live by the schedule first time in twenty five years 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.000 or thirty years. Even I didn't need to wake up 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.000 at eight, I didn't need to catch the train, I 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.200 didn't need to catch the plane or go to a 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.200 rehearsal be prepared. And then all of a sudden, interesting things. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.440 You start thinking about different things. You know, why am 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.880 I doing all of this stuff? I think this is 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.880 so great to actually wake up in your own bed, 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.080 and also to know that next day and day after 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.720 it's also your band. And then you start questioning this 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.160 sort of slightly philosophical things, like I am not so 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.919 young anymore, even though I feel like a kid. How 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.480 many years of active life do I have? Do I 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.360 really need to be on the schedule like this for 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.080 the rest of my sort of the schedule you've been 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.200 on for quite a while thirty years. Yeah, the schedule. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.480 But the interesting you say that because you know a 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.400 lot of people in the professional world I live in, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.240 whether it's acting in film and television or theater, and 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.560 then maestro's soloists and so forth. They're like race horses. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.040 And what the COVID did was it allowed them to 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.280 just go into the corral and to eat some grass. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:43.440 And they said, well, maybe I want to go running, 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.160 but I do necessarily want to race. I don't want 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.720 it to be competitive. I'd like to go run on 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.920 the beach. I'm a horse and I want to go 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.880 take a run for something exactly. And you realize that 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.880 when you gave people these bunches of time, they started 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.600 this journey to get back to their true nature of 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.400 what it is they like, I think, exactly right. And 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.320 I also think that you don't have enough time in 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.840 your schedule or in your brain to really think. You know, 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.080 it's a funny thing because I'm thinking all the time, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.360 but I'm thinking about things that I need to think about, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.400 the things that need to be prepared. I need to 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.960 learn this, I need to make that schedule. I have 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.080 an interview coming up, I have a television thing, I 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.880 have a recording whatever. But these are the things you 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.200 have to do, and you have to because you have 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.560 a deadline. But the kind of thinking that happens when 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.920 you have no deadline is so much more valuable and 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.000 interesting ideas start coming and said like why not? Why 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.839 didn't I ever think about this before? Well, I didn't 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.320 have time. I didn't have time, I was was no room, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.960 sort of trying to catch up all the time rather 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.599 than just schedule heavily scheduled. Man, one thing you don't 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.240 realize about people in the classical repertoire, I said, is 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.440 these are people who know exactly where they're going to 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.520 be on August fifteen, three years from now. Absolutely, they've 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.680 booked festivals, and they booked concerts. These things are booked 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.440 out so far. And but I want to pivot here 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.200 and ask you as I was reading about your your biography, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.240 and I want to talk to you about popular music 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.680 and rock and roll music and the boy from Estonia 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.680 who had to smuggle cassettes of rock music and then 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.040 set up a drum set. Tell me about your relationship 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.600 and what I'm looking for really is the scene between 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.880 the two. Are you a man who there was a 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.040 sense of a duty because of your dad? I remember 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.559 watching in the documentary that you said that your father 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.839 had the classical music playing on the radio or on 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.279 an album or cassette all day long, and in the 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.720 middle of the family dinner, he go wait and he'd 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.040 want to hear the passage or whatever the moment. Now 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.279 was classical music something? It was a feed a complete 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.839 for you because of your dad. It was a true passion. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.800 It was both And were you two different people that 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.880 craved two different sources of music? I think the answer 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.280 the first thing is that I think the difference and 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.800 the distance between these two types of music is actually 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.120 not so big. In fact, I don't really see any distance. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.200 I don't think that there is any difference between rock music, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.400 jazz music, or classical music if because on the highest 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.080 levels of it, it is just as much hard work, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.680 and it requires just as much talent and requires just 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.720 as much skill. Very specific to that particular field. For me, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.320 when I have dinner with with with my girls, you know, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.760 we listened to Eta James, we listened to you know, 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.640 Billie Eilish, We listened to a lot of the stuff. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.960 I even play some of the rock music that they 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.520 have no idea, but I said, listen to this, and 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.279 this is oh, this is great, that this is led Zeppelin, 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.159 let who fifteen and seventeen years old. Some of the 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.560 greatest names in music history, pop music history are totally 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.839 unknown to them, just like in films. And it is 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.760 very interesting for me to realize that my girls actually 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.479 know who Bah Who was Bad Home and Chekhov's Quarter. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.159 They don't know a lot of you know, if you 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.800 say who would be to Gabriel, they say, I don't know. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.000 And it's one of the greatest of grades, you know. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.680 And so the distance between these two fields, or the 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.520 arts in general, is very short, and it's not actually 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.400 at all for me. It was never that I wanted 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.680 to become a rock and roll drummer. I just did 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.200 it because I loved playing it. But I was actually 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.800 studying drums in school, and it was a natural, totally, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:25.400 totally natural connection from just being a drummer, you know, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.360 like most of the bass players in symphony orchestras are 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.920 all sort of quietly fantasizing being the great rock players 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.880 in in in the rocky Yes, absolutely, and so it's 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.520 not actually so different. And one of the things that 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.680 was interesting that you just said, I was never forced 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.960 into music. I love the fact that I never had 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.800 to make a decision. I have two girls right now 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.320 who don't know. They're very talented, but they don't know 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.120 what am I going to do in life. I never 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.680 had ever that question because I wanted to not only 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.760 to be a musician. I wanted to be a conductor 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.680 way before. Why because my father was a conductor. I 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.440 love my father. I think he was having a lot 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.080 of fun and we're very close to this day. So 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.920 it was done. It was a done deal. I wanted 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.080 to be a conductor, and I never ever wanted to 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.400 be anything else ever, and and so it is maybe 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.040 a little bit unusual. But the point of the story 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.520 is that I think that if somebody sort of makes 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.320 it fun for you when you're a kid, it stays 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.840 with you. You know. If somebody forces you, that's a 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:40.160 different story. But I was never forced. Your family left Estonia. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.680 Your father conducted a piece, if I read this correctly, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.360 without what we're considered the necessary permissions back well, the 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.640 audible Credo, and Credo is on the religious text, and 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.040 Arbo Parrett was a kind of a dissident composer. Now 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.079 he's of course the legend, you know, but my father 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.600 was not supposed to do it, and he did it anyway, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.440 and it was a huge scandal, and it was basically 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.440 it was bordering on a on a kind of you 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.680 might be deported or you might be sent to someplace 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.920 really cold, and well, then was happening when you were 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.480 how old? I was probably eleven something like that. Was 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.640 a young child. That's when you head over to New York, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.400 you know. We came to New York when I was 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.240 around seventeen. But that incident sort of started the the 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.880 whole term and longer processes, a long process. Yes, So 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.600 you came when you were seventeen. You come and you 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.640 talk about seeing as many people on the highway coming 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.920 from the airport into the city as we're in your 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.800 entire town or country. You're wearing all of us stony, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.880 exactly right, and you thought that no one's gonna find 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.200 me here, No one's gonna I'm gonna get so lost here. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.400 You know, if you live in a country of one 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.559 and a half million people and you're isolated because it's 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.640 an Iron Curtain Soviet Union, you go to Kennedy Airport 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.439 and then you take the highway and you see no 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.240 four lanes this way and four lanes that way, and 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.400 you literally you haven't even seen it in films. I 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.960 mean it was that it was this dramatic, you know, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.199 So I thought, Okay, nobody will find me here. No. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.800 Obviously your father had this reputation. I'm sure when he 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.880 came to New York he was not without contacts, without friends. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.160 He had people he could plug into here. Correct, absolutely absolutely, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.400 And in fact, my father was a very well known 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.800 conductor back in in in a Soviet Union and in Europe. 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.599 But you know, since the Soviet Union was closed and 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.920 Iron Curtain was very much, you know, a real thing. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.880 The actual possibility to make contacts in the West only 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:41.400 came when you were allowed to travel, and he occasionally 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.960 was allowed to travel, and in fact, he even conducted 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.240 in Metropolitan opera. He conducted on Egging and met a 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.720 lot of local Estonian expats in in America. You know, 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.760 in New Jersey and New York has a very large 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.640 Estonian community. And you know, it was fun fact for 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.680 you to perhaps to notice that that almost every big 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.520 city in the world, but also in the United States, 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.000 has what they call an Estonian house. That was a 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:15.080 little community centers where Estonians would speak Estonian, would do 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.400 the folk dancing, that would do the male choir singing, 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:22.079 they would have the newspaper published, they would have Estonian independence. Observed, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.960 it was a little place in every in Chicago, in 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.199 New York, in Los Angeles, in New Zealand, in London, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.040 in Paris, everywhere there was an Estonian house. So there 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.080 are a lot of Estonians scattered around the world. And 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.200 one of those people actually brought us and gave us 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.760 refuge when we came here. When you get to New York, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.959 how does it begin for you? You knew you wanted 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.840 to be a conductor. You eventually end up at Curtis 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.079 and so forth. But what's the beginning for you when 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.160 you land in the United States? How does your education begin? 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.640 The very first thing is the language, because when we 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:02.359 came to the United States, within speaking perhaps hello, goodbye, 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.920 nice to meet you, and that was about it. So 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.319 this was the first thing which had to be kind 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.480 of dealt with. And so we lived in the house 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.679 with our Estonian family, Pushtrums were their names. I was 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.400 seventeen years old. So we went to the high school 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.360 in New Jersey and it was in fact one of 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.120 those really nice moments where we became and slowly learned 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.400 the language through speaking with other kids. Are trying to 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.840 speak with other kids, and of course they never knew 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.680 what the Estonian is like. And they said, oh, there's 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.160 two Russian kids, because it was with my sister, two 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.360 Russian kids. And I said, no, no, no, we're not Russians. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:41.600 Were Estonians. Oh a Storia Queen's no, no Estonia. Then 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.920 already applying to schools, I went to Julia Pre College, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.800 I went to a University of is How does that happen? 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.600 Because of your father's reputation, that introduction that an introduction 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.040 has made. No, no, not at all. No. In fact, 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.280 what you have to do is that there's an audition 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.520 that you send in new application, and you have to do. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.160 And you knew you wanted that, you knew you wanted Juilliard. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.320 I was dreaming about Julliard and I was. I got 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:12.000 into a pre college as a percussionist, and from there 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.839 on John Barnum of Estonia, I think there are better 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.319 drummers than me, much better drummers than me in Estonia. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.280 But but actually there is a very very active rock 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.160 scene also in Estonia. But mainly Estonia is known for 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.600 its classical music of course, but but but the rock 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.520 and the pop music, and it's it's actually very very 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.480 big there and it's a very good some very very 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.240 good artists. And what was the pre college program at Julia? 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.320 How did you find out? What was that like? Well, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.520 first of all, I had to travel every morning, get 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.800 up at six from New Jersey, get a bus, go 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.599 to Port Authority terminal, then walk. But that was a 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.280 fourth It was a forty second street, the old fashioned way, 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:52.200 not not the cleaned up gentrified Disney thing. It was, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.640 you know, and I barely spoke English so I always 0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.160 remember the moment where I was walking from the the 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.080 terminal to Juilliard and the girl came up to me. 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.920 A lady came up to me and said, do you 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:10.360 have time? And I was sort of struggled and I said, yes, 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.880 it's it's seven o'clock am. And then she looked at 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.680 me kind of walked away in disgusted. I think she 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:22.040 obviously didn't she had yes, she didn't really want to 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.040 know what time it was. She wanted you to know 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.600 what time it was. But anyway, so you made it 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:27.880 up to sixty six Street, and when you get there, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.280 what kind of work are you doing? Well? First of all, 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.120 we had theory lessons, we had air training, we had selfish, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.480 we had a percussion the major lesson. But the most 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.760 interesting thing was always the orchestra. It was a pre 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.520 college orchestra, and orchestra was full of really wonderful, wonderful musicians, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.880 a lot of them on a lot of them, but 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.560 some of them I'm still very closely connected, and they 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.800 are now well known musicians. And you would every time 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.640 have an orchestra rehearsal, and the conductor was was rehearsing 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.440 and you are playing timpani, and you are kind of 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.040 all in that world. You can see what the conductor 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.560 test tells to the strings, and you see how the 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.560 brass players react to some comments, and you know, all 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.760 of a sudden, in the back of the orchestra, you 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.920 are actually doing much more than learning how to play tympany. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.960 You're learning how the process of conducting is actually happening 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.040 and what is important? How what are the things that 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.360 you like about the way the conductor asked the musicians? What? What? 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.920 What turns you off? What makes you angry? What makes 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.520 you laugh? Who is popular? Who is less? You know 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.840 it is it's a whole process. Yeah, and that process 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.840 is very much to do with also human ability. You know, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.600 some conductors can know everything, but they can piece everybody 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.040 off in the first three minutes, and nobody will want 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.520 to hear what they say. And other people they do 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.920 they close off, Yes, they close off, and they immediately 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:55.960 build a kind of a barrier between themselves and the conductor. 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.080 And you know, there is not so much love sort 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.840 of laws between orchestral musicians and conductors anyway, from the 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.280 kind of older history of the kind of tyrannical conductors, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:08.840 which of course now is not the case anymore because 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.680 the society is different. But there is a kind of 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:16.960 a built in distrust and musicians always listen to the teachers, 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.480 and teachers say, oh, you know, conductors, they can be this, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.840 they can be that. So it was an interesting kind 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:29.200 of experience to see how the process works. Conductor Pavo 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.720 r V. If you love the stories of life on 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.440 the podium, be sure to check out my conversation with 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.120 Finnish composer and conductor Sapeka salmon In. When he arrived 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.240 in the United States to conduct the Los Angeles Philharmonic, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.800 he loved leaving behind the arrogance of the European classical 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.400 music world. When I started out in l A, I 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.000 had this some kind of residue from this European thing 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.200 that okay, I'm here to bring some kind of culture 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.120 to elevate you. Yeah, this culture has medicine kind of 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.439 thing which is vile. And it was an interesting process 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.639 because I I was talking about things, you know, the 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.679 way we used to in in your post days, and 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.920 you know, with this kind of historic necessity of a 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.520 tonal music and listen that and people were very nice, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.479 they said, oh yeah, great, interesting, But how does it 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.600 sound asking these questions that are the obvious questions that 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.679 everybody should ask, but we went for some reason asking 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.440 here more of my conversation with Maestro Speka Salmon and 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.560 here's the thing dot Org. After the break, Pavo Yarv 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.760 talks about the role he plays in the orchestra as 0:17:40.800 --> 0:18:11.240 the conductor. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:17.040 the Thing. This is the sacrificial dance from Igor Stravinsky's 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.840 The Right of Spring, performed by the n h K 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.719 Symphony Orchestra in Tokyo. The conductor is my guest today, 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:52.639 Pavo Yarv y. Pavo Yarv's home country, Estonia, has a 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.240 population of just over one point three million and a 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.159 thriving classical music scene, in part thanks to the r 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.240 V family. Pavo r vs life and work was featured 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.800 in the two thousand three documentary Maestro. The film includes 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:13.560 interviews with famous classical musicians, talking about your V's talent 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:19.160 and explaining the complexities of the classical music world. Violinist 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:23.439 Joshua Bell goes so far as to suggest musicians playing 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.680 at the highest level do not need a conductor Pavo 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.639 r V wouldn't go that far, but he agrees his 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.600 job is probably not quite what you think it is. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.720 Two things. Number one, I am not a decided per 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.520 se because I don't believe in this. It's not an 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.320 autocratic for me. That doesn't work. What works is I 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.160 invite musicians to see my point of view. And when 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.840 Joshua or somebody else says that we don't need a conductor, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.000 he they are really explaining it to a kind of 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:59.119 a layman who doesn't quite understand the nuances, because what 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.240 they don't need it is somebody to be the policeman 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.119 in order to organize everything because on that level where 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.160 he exists and I exist in a New York Philharmonic, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.920 and so they can play the piece together and make 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.520 sure that it doesn't fall apart absolutely without you know, 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.720 a problem without a conductor. Now, so one would ask 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.200 why is the conductor important or what what's the role? 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.679 I'll tell you my view of this is this, somebody 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.119 has to formulate a point of view. That point of 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.240 view varies from one conductor to another. And so that 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.480 is why we still do some standard repertoire because some 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.360 younger generation people see it in in in a different light. 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.359 They have, but they have studied the score, they have 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.800 studied the tradition, and at the end of the day, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.920 hundred people cannot make up their mind to be unified. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.919 If enough to formulate on the spot of the performance 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.880 and interesting enough point of view, just getting through something, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:00.560 it's not the goal. It's making something exceptional and finding 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.439 ways of making an old piece new. That's really the 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.639 conductor's job. The other thing is that you know most 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.960 of the people. If let's say you go to New Philharmonic, 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.360 a fantastic orchestra, they have to do a different program 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.520 every single week. Every single week, they have at least 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.280 three new pieces that they need to master. They play 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.000 all the notes they need to be absolutely perfect. They 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.840 don't have time to study in depth all the scores 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.600 for three new pieces. Every research it takes years. It 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.080 takes years. If it's you, that's that's a conducted job. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.600 But I would never say that this is a kind 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.720 of I decide or I I have a strong point 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.239 of view, and then I invite them to see it. 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.399 And actually musicians always look for that. They look for 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.920 somebody who is going to open the door that illuminates 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.120 something in the piece, and we're a piece that they've 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.760 played a hundred times becomes maybe fun again because it 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.000 has a little front angle, maybe a slightly a different 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:03.880 point of view, and you know, there are a lot 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:08.040 of subtleties that can make a piece sound new. Well. 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.280 The reason sometimes I dwell on that topic is because 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:15.760 theater mirrors the classical repertoire, because very often you're doing 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.760 a revival of classic material. So the work of Chekhov, 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.800 the work of Williams, the work of Miller and O'Neill 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.159 are like all the great composers. And the joke we 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.240 always tell in the theater is we know the material works. 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.280 So if the show's a bomb, it's us, well, you know, 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.960 we got it wrong. And the director's task is to 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.919 do what you're saying, is to sell them a clear 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.120 sense of what the film is they want to make. 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.240 How do I sell you on my idea and get 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:44.760 you to do what I think you should do? Now? 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.800 As I often say for years when I was the 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.600 announcer for the Philharmonic, I'm the bat boy for the 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.960 New York Philharmonic. I'm not really a great pitcher or fielder, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.600 but I just love the game. So to speak. But 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.480 when I see, like, for example, a very easy component 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:03.760 of this or analysis of this is I'll go download 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.440 a piece, and let's use a very basic piece. I'll 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.359 get the Adagio, the fourth movement of the mall or ninth, 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.520 and I'll see that high Tink plays it, and he 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:16.399 does it in twenty seven minutes. And then I'll see 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:20.000 that Mozzelle with the Philharmonic does it in thirty one minutes. 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:24.640 It's four minutes longer. And so pace is of course 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.000