1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio. 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: my name is Noah. 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our guest 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Faken. Most specifically, you 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. It is our weekly 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: Listener Male segment. We're gonna hear from docer B. We're 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: gonna hear from this is a true story. We're gonna 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: hear from a couple of cats. We're gonna hear from 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: some anonymous folks. We're gonna hear from Meta Agent. We also, 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: I think, wanted to collectively take a moment and thank 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: everybody who has taken the time to listen to our 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: episode about the dark side of adoption, and also to 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: reach out and share some very personal stories. It really 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: does mean the world. 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and we're going to share one of those 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: right at the top here. That's something that I received 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: from a person who's become a friend through the show, 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 3: and I communicate with somewhat regularly on Instagram asked to 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: remain anonymous here, but this episode really struck a chord 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 3: with them and compelled them to share this story. And 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: I guess trigger warning up top, there's a discussion of 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: some sexual abuse, and it's just generally some pretty sad stuff, 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 3: but it does have a happy ending. So why don't 29 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: we pause here, make this our cold open, and then 30 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: we'll come back with that story in full when we return. 31 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: And we're back, and here is our message from an 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: anonymous listener responding to our episode on the Dark Side 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: of Adoption. Listening to the adoption episode, and I was 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: actually ward of the state, not really foster or adopted. 35 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: And if I'm not mistaken, a ward of the state 36 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: is something that's a little more common overseas. It's something 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: that if you've ever seen The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, 38 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 3: for example, or read those books, the character of Elizabeth 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: Solander is a ward of the state due to not 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 3: having parents and also due to something that she did, 41 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: a crime. I guess that she committed that caused her 42 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: to be monitored more specifically, but to this listener's point, 43 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 3: you can also become a ward of the state, sort 44 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: of in the way you might be put in a 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: foster home here in the United States, the right legal 46 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: protection of some state body that's government. So I was 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: actually ward of the state, not really foster or adopted. 48 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: My mom lost three kids for good reason, and two 49 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: of us were placed with relatives across the state. They 50 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 3: had done fostering before, so we were never checked up on. 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: I was raped two times by people associated with them. 52 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: But I think I'm even more bothered by the fact 53 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: that the yearly check in we were supposed to have 54 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 3: with a social worker was just a survey mailed to 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 3: my uncle and filled out by him alone. I saw 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: it once, and it asked about our happiness and how 57 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: we were doing. Never once had anyone asked me those questions, 58 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: so they were able to give themselves five star reviews. 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: Had I ever got to privately meet with an adult 60 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: outside the home, I would have had the opportunity to 61 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: tell someone what happened before it happened again. Siblings went 62 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: back to Mom, but I got left behind, so I 63 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: left on my own and hitchhiked across the country. On 64 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: the positive side, life got better when I began being 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: the only person responsible for taking care of my self. 66 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: So I would end by saying that to any kids 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: who are in that bad place now, that it does 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 3: get better, and that they should find the bravery to 69 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: talk to someone if they feel like things aren't right. 70 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: They might not realize right away that what they are 71 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: going through isn't okay, but they can't blame themselves for 72 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: not recognizing abuse as abuse when they never got to know. Love. 73 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: Can share any of that if you want, or if 74 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: it's relevant in the future. No name if you do 75 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: feel weird sharing it, but it is a relief saying 76 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: it instead of just saying quote unquote bad things. I 77 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: wrote an autobiography even and just labeled the worst as 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: bad things, because if I don't call it what it was, 79 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: then I can pretend it didn't happen. But seventeen years 80 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: is a long time to keep that in Thank you 81 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: guys for covering the dark side of adoption, and I 82 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: hope others find the comfort I did and hearing a 83 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: lot of us were luckier than we knew. Ah. I 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 3: think you can probably hear a little emotional reading this. 85 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: I can't thank our listener enough for sharing this very 86 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 3: private thing. It would seem for maybe the first time 87 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 3: in a public forum like this, and I know that 88 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: has to be complicated, but it would seem empowering. And 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: that makes me very happy that you felt comfortable enough 90 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 3: to do that and to allow us to tell this 91 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 3: story and hopefully you know, reach folks that maybe you're 92 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: you know, in the midst in the thick of the 93 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: situation that you found yourself in, because we know that 94 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: even here in the States, you know, these kind of 95 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: situations often fall through the cracks, and you know, people 96 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: are even killed, you know, children, it's it's it's a 97 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: horrible thing. We know the system isn't inherently vicious, it 98 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: does not intend for these things to happen, but it 99 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 3: is understaffed and often there are opportunistic elements that can 100 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 3: come in, like in this situation, and take advantage of 101 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: the system for a check and not do that sacred 102 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: duty that is, you know, looking after a child who 103 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: is in need. So I just, yeah, I can't thank 104 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: you enough. And guys, you know, we got other messages 105 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 3: similar to this, but this is just one that I 106 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: thought was really moving and I just wanted to share it. 107 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 3: But can you imagine the idea of being able to 108 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: self assess your I mean, that's just mind boggling and 109 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 3: if unfortunately, yeah, I can imagine it. But how awful 110 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: and inefficient that a human never even got to speak 111 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: to these kids. 112 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I wanted to talk about. Pretty recently, 113 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: my son's in a public school and he he got 114 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: something sent home by the staff, like the teachers, the 115 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: classes that he's in, and it let us know, let 116 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: me know, as dad and his mom, that there's going 117 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: to be an assessment, a self assessment basically that every 118 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: kid was going to fill out in the school and 119 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: it was going to ask questions like this, and you know, 120 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: about how you feel, how if you feel safe, if 121 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 2: you feel fulfilled? All these like pretty big concepts for 122 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: children of an elementary school age. But that kind of 123 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: thing being you know, asked of a child in that 124 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: moment when they're in school, which is theoretically a safer 125 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: space for some of the kids than it is at home, 126 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: right if they're in a bad situation, that to me 127 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: is a massively important thing to exist. And it makes 128 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: me very sad that this, this person that is writing 129 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: to us didn't even have that opportunity in some you know, 130 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: third party group to come in and an adult that's 131 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: not a part of that family that's taking part in 132 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: the bad stuff to come in and actually just ask 133 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: the question, Hey, how you doing to the kid. 134 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: It's just such a conflict of interest. You know that 135 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: alone is maddening, but just when you find out that 136 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: this is the kind of stuff that it can actually 137 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: help to cover up a policy like that. 138 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to begin by anonymous thanking you specifically 139 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: for trusting us enough with this story. This is, as 140 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: we had mentioned earlier, this is something that many people 141 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: have their own experiences with, very sensitive to that. One 142 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: thing that I would like to say is you have, 143 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: by virtue of contacting us, you have already done and 144 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: impossible to estimate level of good for fellow conspiracy realists 145 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: who may be in similar situations and have felt at 146 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: some point in their lives alone. And there's a power 147 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: in that, and we thank you for this. Also, if 148 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: you are comfortable, please do feel free to send your 149 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: autobiography along. I would love to read it and just 150 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: grateful for your time as well as the time of 151 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: everybody else who wrote it. This does matter, and it 152 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: is It is incredibly important, So thank you. 153 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you'll hear emotion in all of our voices. 154 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: You know, this is just something that having been children 155 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 3: ourselves and some of us of course having children, and 156 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: all of us, you know, having children in our lives, 157 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 3: just the idea of being in such a place of 158 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: vulnerability and utterly having this system fail you, you know, 159 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: and just the most egregious kind of way possible. It's 160 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 3: just difficult not to feel emotional about this stuff. But 161 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: I don't know, guys, are there any like, if there 162 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: were kids out there that were experiencing this stuff and 163 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 3: they had the courage or the wherewithal to like reach out, 164 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 3: would this be the kind of thing you would just 165 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 3: you would just report this stuff to the police. 166 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: Maybe it's tough theoretically, Yes, there are things what are 167 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: they called mandated reporters who are legally required you know, 168 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: people teachers, educators in particular Teles. We're big, big fans 169 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: of education, and teachers here dramatically cartoonishly underpaid go every 170 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: day to spend their heart, their blood, their sweat, their tears, 171 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: and spoiler here in America, a lot of money out 172 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: of their own pocket and there's not a These are 173 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: not very deep pockets. Those are people worth trusting. So 174 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: I would say mandated reporters are a big part of 175 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: the conversation. 176 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: But to the point of our listener, there could be 177 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 3: some kids that are in the situation that don't even 178 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: recognize abuse as abuse, and how do you reconcile. 179 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: That Because things can become so evil, evilly insidiously normalized. 180 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: That's part of it too. I mean, you know, cliches 181 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: are only cliches for a reason. When people say things 182 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: like it takes a village to raise a child, there 183 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: is a truth to that in that everybody in in 184 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: that child's environment is in some way I would say, 185 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: or I would think, maybe I'm idealistic here, I would say, 186 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: you are in some way responsible for ensuring the safety 187 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: and the opportunity of that child as they grow and learn. 188 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: Like I, you know, I used to be a jerk 189 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: about it. Like I would sit somewhere and there would 190 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: be a kid that all of a sudden, I'm the 191 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: only adult you know in the in the area, and 192 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: I used to think, ah, crap, now this kid is 193 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: my responsibility. I hope nothing terrible happens for the next 194 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: six minutes or whatever. I'm not being here. I'm not 195 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: paid to be the babysitter here, but there is a 196 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: nobility to it. There is a mission. And again not 197 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: to sound like a broken record nor a cliche, but 198 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: it is important. You're not alone and there is great 199 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: power in reaching out to a community. 200 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine a kid that's 201 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: in this situation actually hearing this and then being able 202 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 2: to take action based on it. But maybe I'm underestimating 203 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 2: all of this thing that we're doing right now. But 204 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 2: I've always heard that writing a simple note, like even 205 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 2: with just the words please help, or something scribbled on 206 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: a tiny little piece of paper, a gum wrapper or 207 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: something like that, and just handing it to a stranger. 208 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 4: Right. 209 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen we've seen instances of that working out 210 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 2: where somebody gets pulled out of a situation because they 211 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: slipped a simple note to somebody at a grocery store 212 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: when they were take you know, when the uncle or 213 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: whoever it is is taking you out to shopping because 214 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: they don't have time to do whatever. Just there. I 215 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: do believe in the goodness of people, as you're describing 216 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: their ben people who don't who aren't necessarily responsible for 217 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: that kid at all in any of the filial ways 218 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: that we discussed in our adoption episode, but will recognize 219 00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: when they can be of help. 220 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't really have a whole heck of a 221 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: lot to add that that hasn't been said, So I 222 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 3: would just end by once again thinking our anonymous listener 223 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 3: for sharing the story, and again to everyone else out 224 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: there who have shared their stories. Let's take a break 225 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 3: and hear a word from our sponsor and then come 226 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: back with some more messages from you. 227 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 2: And we've returned and we are jumping to the phone 228 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: lines to hear from somebody that guys, I I think 229 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: I just am not hearing this person correctly. Maybe you 230 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 2: can suss out what this person's nickname actually is. I've 231 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: been calling the meta meta agent me et a agent. 232 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: I think they are saying meta sistis agent. That's it 233 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: might be, but they called before we put that out, 234 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: so I don't know what is time. So this is 235 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna cause for some meta agent. So here's the 236 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: message meta agent has for us. 237 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: Hey, guys, this is the metaist agent, this particle that's 238 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 4: a big concern for everybody. The issue with city fertilizer, 239 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 4: but sometimes called black sledge. There's been a couple of 240 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 4: farmers that are refusing to sell products and like even 241 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 4: the cows, because they're finding it so heavily contaminated with 242 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 4: CFAs that it's dominating a lot of farm lands. And 243 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 4: it's supposedly from the articles that I ran a worldwide problem. Yeah, 244 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 4: thanks for the show and wanted to give you guys 245 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: pretty interesting topics to go through. Thanks, guys. 246 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is the metaisie agent. So we'll just 247 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: say it like that. I can't. I'm sorry. I think 248 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: maybe I just misunderstood and I kept replaying in and 249 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: I couldn't get what it is. I like meta agent, though, 250 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: Just call yourself that again when you call it, that's cool. 251 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 2: Meta agent. You guys, City fertilizer, black sludge? You ever 252 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: heard of this? 253 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: Yes, but I'm like a terrible sample size for this question. 254 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: Okay, No, you ever heard of city fertilizer? 255 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: I have not, And I've heard of black sludge, but 256 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: not in this context. 257 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: Well have you heard of black gold? 258 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: Hey, Texas team? 259 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: In this case, No, it's used Texas dirts exactly. It's 260 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: used a poopoo that human beings in cities, you know, 261 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: send down the toilets and then into the sewage system, 262 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: and then into the sewage treatment plants, and then as 263 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: it's being treated, the solids that come out of there 264 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: are black gold aka black sludge aka city fertilizer. It's 265 00:15:52,960 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: the human poopoo. Okay, so sorry, So why is this important? 266 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: Why is this scary? Why is this weird? Let's jump 267 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: to an article from April tenth, twenty thirteen. It is 268 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: posted on NPR dot org's website. I believe it is 269 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: part of an episode of All Things Considered. It's written 270 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: by Frank Morris. I want to read just a little 271 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: bit of this because this is really, I think one 272 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: of our major first introductions to the concept of city fertilizer. 273 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: So here we go. The title is cities turned sewage 274 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: into black gold for local farms. Let's just read it 275 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: verbatim here. Thank you, Frank Morris. On a normal day, 276 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: Kansas City, Missouri, processes more than seventy million gallons of 277 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 2: raw sewage. This sewage used to be a nuisance, but 278 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: Kansas City and a bunch of other cities around the 279 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: world are now turning it into a resource for farmers. 280 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: Farmers who need fertilizer. Yep. So that's really all you 281 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: need to know. Frank calls it the smelly stuff because 282 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: it does apparently according to people who produce this, and 283 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: according to the EPA, it has a smell. It's not 284 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: quite the the poo poo smell that maybe you might 285 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: be imagining, but there is a bit of that sulfurous 286 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: thing going on to it. If you've ever smelled the sewer, 287 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: you know, walking by we live in the suit, Smell the. 288 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: Sewer, catch a little whiff, and then it sort of 289 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 3: like vanishes, you know. 290 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But now imagine covering acres and acres, maybe 291 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: even hectares. I don't know the difference to be honest 292 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: of farmland in this same poop poo kind of gross. 293 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 2: Now let's go back, guys, So let's just take that concept. 294 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 4: Right. 295 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: It was gonna be great because cities were gonna be 296 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: able to get rid of this stuff and make use 297 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 2: of it. It's gonna be a great use. It's gonna 298 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: make food. Now, holy mackerel, talk about recycling. Right, Those 299 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: carrots go in, then they go out of you, then 300 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: they make more carrots. Beautiful. Well, we talked about things 301 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: like Prion's. We talked about things like problems with using 302 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: poop and parts of one animal to feed that same 303 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: type of animal, in this case humans, we're the animal. 304 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: There could be huge problems with it, right, But that's 305 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 2: not the problem here, guys. The problem is something we 306 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: mentioned all the time on this show, Ben, can you 307 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: do the honors? 308 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: Well? If I had to guess, oh, and first off, 309 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: thank you Metagant. Check out some of our work for IGU, 310 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: it's it's for you. But if I had to guess Matt, 311 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: I would say, we might be talking about some metals 312 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: that are heavier, but more importantly, we might be talking 313 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: about some pathas. 314 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, pia carbon, some carbon chains that are pesky 315 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: and really helpful, but also stick around and end up 316 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 2: getting in the water and in this case in the 317 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 2: soil slash, fertilizer slash the food that we're gonna end 318 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 2: up eating, it's not good at all. You can go 319 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: to the Columbia Missourian. They have a website Columbia Missourian 320 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: dot com and you can find an article that was 321 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: written June fifth, twenty twenty four. It is titled City 322 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 2: Finds Forever Chemicals and fertilizer sludge continues to apply to crops. Sorry, 323 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: that's comical to me. They find them a big problem. Yeah, 324 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: but they got to keep using it because now a 325 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 2: lot of the farmland around this area is dependent on 326 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: this supply of fertilizer, because if you don't get the 327 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: nutrients into that soil, you can't grow any of the crops. 328 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: And thankfully that's the reason why it was called black gold, 329 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 2: is because this stuff, this recycled dodo, it has a 330 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: ton of nutrients in it, and it's nutrients that plants need. 331 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 2: It's got the medigant spin. 332 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: It has the medicians, it does all the metagens for you, 333 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: meta agent exactly. We wrote that for you before. We 334 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: didn't know before you called. But yet, Matt, you're you're 335 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: describing maybe also what we in the in the Boffin 336 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: world and the Ivory Towers would call path dependency, meaning 337 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: that a certain technique or technology or process has become 338 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: baked in just like fresh baked poop, and then the 339 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: other ancillary or subsequent industries rely upon this. So, for instance, 340 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: to stay with the idea of energy or yeah, loosely 341 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: put energy, you could talk about path dependency as an 342 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: example of coal during the Industrial Revolution. Well after people 343 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: knew it wasn't ten ten double plus good, they had 344 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: to continue using it simply because so many other industries 345 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: depended upon its existence. And maybe that's what we're looking 346 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: at with this sludge. But one question I have for 347 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: you Matt and for you Meticen is by the time 348 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: people found out about the inclusion of pafas and the 349 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: inclusion of heavy metals, it feels like maybe the horse 350 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: already left the barn. Was there some sweet spot where 351 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: human poop was just amazing for agriculture? 352 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: Well, it is, And here's the problem. I think it's 353 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: the nature of the process of recycling the sewage water 354 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: and it's not in the poop necessarily. Although there are 355 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: pfasts in us all the time, usually when they get 356 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: into us, our body doesn't process them, so they just 357 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: stick around and go into places like our testicles and 358 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 2: our brain. Sorry, just pointing out other times we've mentioned 359 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: the places that they end up on this show. It's 360 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 2: all true. 361 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: Our favorite places, our balls in our brains. 362 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 2: Same thing. So I Ben I'm gonna stick with that too, 363 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: because there are there are major problems. It is unknown 364 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: right now at least from the writing I've seen where 365 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: the pfast is originating. Is it coming just from the 366 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: water system itself, from the you know, the waste. Is 367 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: it coming from some other place when it's like one 368 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: of the processes that are used to create this stuff. 369 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: So we're gonna go to the EPA's website right now 370 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: to learn a little bit more about this black sludge. 371 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: They refer to it as biosolids, and I'm gonna read 372 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: verbatim from their article basic information about biosolids. Here we go. 373 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 2: Biosolids are a product of the wastewater treatment process. During 374 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 2: wastewater treatment, the liquids are separated from the solids. The 375 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: solids are then treated physically and chemically to produce a 376 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: semi solid, nutrient rich product known as biosolids. The term 377 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: bio solids and sewage sludge are often used interchangeably. There 378 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 2: are tons of regulations that the EPA has set forth, 379 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: like standards that this reused poop has to meet before 380 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: it can be applied to you know, food that humans 381 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: and animals will be ingesting. You can read all about 382 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: that right now. There's a Class A and Class B 383 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: treated poop. I'm sorry that I'm saying it. Like, guys, 384 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: I feel like such a child forever. Young Matt Ben 385 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: you you. I was cracking up when you were talking 386 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 2: because you you used the term loosely and I just 387 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: I couldn't get loose poops out of my head. 388 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: I don't just get them out of your butt first, 389 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, order of operations, loose poops, sink sloops. 390 00:23:52,760 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: There you go, there you go. But hey, sunsuing owed 391 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: fire until you see the. 392 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: Whites of their buttons. 393 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's also technically the correct pronunciation is sun poop. 394 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: All right, we go. 395 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: Sorry, that's a way to I guess what Noel and 396 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: I are doing here is backing you up. Don't feel 397 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: like there's anything wrong with having a hearty laugh. 398 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 3: Solidarity and childishness. 399 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so let's get let's get back to this 400 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: large scale bowel movement. 401 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: Yes, not to do that. So there's an article you 402 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 2: can find in The Guardian. This is from March twelfth 403 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: of this year, twenty twenty four, written by Tom Perkins. 404 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: The title is legal action could end use of toxic 405 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: sewage sludge on US crops as fertilizer sewage sludge. I 406 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: really flubbed the sludge there, guys, this is this is 407 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: all about an intent to sue that was put forward 408 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 2: by a group of people saying that regulators in the 409 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: United States failed to see the dangers and to protect 410 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: consumers people who eat you know, foods that are grown 411 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 2: out of this toxic sewage sludge. That's how it's being 412 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: described here as well, which. 413 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: You would never know. You would never know, by the way, 414 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: because there is no FDA requirement to put that on 415 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, a label for products. 416 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 4: Right. 417 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't even know that. Is that true? You 418 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 2: don't even have to label this stuff as from human 419 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: you know, sewage. 420 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 3: I don't you know? That's it up? But I don't 421 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: think so. 422 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: I've never been in I've never been in a situation 423 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: where someone says, you know, it's ninety nine cents for 424 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: an ear of this corn, sixty nine cents for this 425 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: and then you go why and they go, well, it's 426 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: because of the poop. 427 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking about the end product thee In my head, 428 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: in my head, I was thinking about the fertilized, the 429 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: bulk fertilizer being purchased, like it didn't have to have 430 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: a label. That makes way more sense, Ben, Yeah, it 431 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 2: doesn't say grown in human poop. I've never seen an 432 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 2: ear of corn that said that. Gosh, oh there was 433 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 2: another thing here. I was supposed to mention about the 434 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 2: most common foods that are grown in this stuff, but 435 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: I think it's soybeans and corn mostly. So like the bulk, 436 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: the huge bulk amounts of those staples are you are 437 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: grown with this stuff because this fertilizer is significantly cheaper 438 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 2: than other alternatives, the more expensive stuff that is kind 439 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: of in short supply non human poop fertilizer. We talked 440 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: about the phosphorus. 441 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: What is it? 442 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: What was it like peak phosphorus or something. We did 443 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: a whole episode ones and how that's an issue for 444 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 2: fertilizer specifically and for food growth. This is a whole 445 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 2: wrapped up thing. You guys that might be worth our time. 446 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: I just hate to go back to the pfast Well, 447 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 2: it's it's awful, it's gross stuff. We end up having 448 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 2: to explain how horrible these substances are for us every 449 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: episode we talk about it, and it makes me it's 450 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: it's a huge down owner right now. I feel down 451 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: because this stuff is literally in everything, and now it's 452 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: in the dang fertilizer. 453 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: I think it's definitely changed the way that our crew 454 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: considers diet and health. For sure. There are a couple 455 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: of things we all had to say goodbye to separately, 456 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: and that's just well. 457 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: And then forget that it's even in there. Why I 458 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: stop eating that? Who cares everything? Anyway? 459 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: I miss orange soda and microwave popcorn and all all 460 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: that slow jazz. 461 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, some of those things I've gotten rid of, 462 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 2: but I'm still chugging and energy and drink right now 463 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: and eating all kinds of unhealthy things. I'm sure. Well, Hey, 464 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: thank you Meta agent for letting us know about this. 465 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: If you hear more right to us, send us a 466 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: voicemail anything like that, especially specifics, or if any action 467 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: is taken. Otherwise, we'll continue looking into this story. We'll 468 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: be right back after a messages from our sponsors. 469 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: And we have returned as always, thanks to our fellow 470 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist who have spent some time here with us. 471 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: Time is the only real currency that living organisms have, 472 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: so we understand it, we appreciate it, and I seldom 473 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: ever do this, but you guys, can I tell you 474 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: just some personal stuff quick. Yeah, just between us and 475 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: the NSA and the millions of people tuning in right 476 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: now or AI. You know, it's been a very difficult 477 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: time here for our crew folks, for all of us. 478 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 4: And. 479 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: It seems that when you read the news, there's a 480 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: disaster every four hours, you know, and it's easy for 481 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: us to read about these things a world away and 482 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: not feel personally hit, you know, like when we're talking 483 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: about this adoption episode, it really hit home for me 484 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: as well. And I'm still with Anonymous and I'm still 485 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: with you know, the work we did and the people 486 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: we've spoken with about this, because I have people in 487 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: my family who have been you know, like you were mentioning, 488 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, who have been directly impacted by these things. 489 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to take a personal note before 490 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: we go into some fun stuff to thank all of 491 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: our fellow listeners. There's a reason we call you fellow listeners. 492 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: It's because you are a big part of this show. 493 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: And just thank you to everybody who has taking the 494 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: time to reach out. Because the the folks here on 495 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: the other side of your earbuds or your air pods 496 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: or your headphones. I think those are three that your speakers. Okay, 497 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: the folks on the other side are you know, know, 498 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: more than just voices in your head, the real people too. 499 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: So every time you take a personal moment, it just 500 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: absolutely means a world to us. Dylan tennessee Powell play 501 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: me off of my pretentious little soapbox there, but hopefully 502 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: the sincerity. Hopefully the sincerity carries through. Now we're going 503 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: to go to a excellent letter. We got one of 504 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: many from several people who are in the trenches of education. 505 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: And when we talked about your call earlier, we explored 506 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: a bit of a pilot program at David Gain College 507 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: over in the United Kingdom where they said we are 508 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 1: going to sub out human teachers with AI programs, and 509 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: they enumerated the advantages of these programs, and then a 510 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: lot of people voting. Some of our fellow listeners told 511 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: us their concerns before we before we get into We'll 512 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: just do this one letter before we get into it. 513 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: Has that stayed with you, guys, the AI teacher thing, it. 514 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 3: Has It's come up in conversation quite a few times 515 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 3: with folks I know who heard the story outside of 516 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 3: the podcast and just kind of brought it up already. 517 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 3: Because I think it is a hot button issue, even 518 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 3: for folks who don't have teachers in their families. But 519 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: it just, first and foremost, it seems like a terrible idea. 520 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 3: And I also did a little more digging, and maybe 521 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 3: we talked about this in the episode, but it's not 522 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 3: like it's cheap. It's tens of thousands of pounds a 523 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: year for the privilege at this particular private school in 524 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 3: the UK. 525 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: And it's also energy intensive to have AI in the 526 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: first place. 527 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, guys, I forgot to even tell you this. 528 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: We talked about that last Wednesday as we record this. 529 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: Then on that Saturday, I took my son to one 530 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 2: of his schoolmate's birthday parties and I met one of 531 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: the moms of one of the kids who happened to 532 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: be a Spanish teacher at that high school. At school, yes, 533 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: and she showed me. She pulled up she happened to 534 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: be doing work, because guess what, when you're a teacher, 535 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: you're doing work when you're at a kid's birthday party, 536 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: because it never stops. She was grading papers and she 537 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 2: pulled up on her laptop these diagrams that it's going 538 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: to be really hard for me to describe to you 539 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 2: guys right now. But it's diagrams that show basically how 540 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: the skills that a child going to that high school 541 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: will be learning when they take a Spanish class. And 542 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: it's not the way you would think about it maybe 543 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 2: when we were in high school. It's they're not thinking 544 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 2: about it as language arts and all this other stuff. 545 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: They're breaking it down into these modes of thinking basically, 546 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 2: and how is this class affecting these different modes of 547 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: thinking for you? It was really cool, actually, and she 548 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: explained that it had a lot less to do with 549 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 2: using utilizing AI and more in learning to think about 550 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: how this stuff is going to change everything that we 551 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: do and everything we learn, and how how even jobs 552 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 2: are going to function in the future. 553 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: Metacognition thinking about thought. Yeah, and with that these are 554 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: excellent points. With that, let's go to docker B. Docer 555 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: B to the point about being an educator is definitely 556 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: probably underpaid and working too much. That's just a guess. 557 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: We have not spoken to docer B directly yet, but 558 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: doctor B, your letter meant the world to us, as 559 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: well as the letters of the many other educators who 560 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: have contacted us about this story. Here it goes Hi, guys, 561 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: I've been enjoying your show for the past year or so. 562 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: You can call me docer B if you decide to 563 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: mention this note in your show. I believe most educators 564 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: will tell you that an AI teacher is a terrible idea. 565 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: Points for you, not because we worry about our jobs, 566 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: but because we care about children. We know from the 567 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: failure that was the COVID lockdown the negative impact virtual 568 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: learning had. I studied cyber school for my doctoral dissertation. 569 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: Congratulations dockerby, and from what I read and what I observed, 570 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: most students, with few exceptions, do not learn on screens. 571 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: We all learn differently, so classrooms have a variety of 572 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: activities so that all learners can be engaged. An alarming 573 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: number of students admit that they put almost no effort 574 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: into online learning, and there are multiple cheat websites like 575 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: brainle dot com not a sponsored ad, where they can 576 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: go to find the answers to pretty much any online 577 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: educational activity. Now let's pause there, because I think we've 578 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: all seen this with you know, people in the audience 579 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: who have kids, or our educators or if you have 580 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: educators in your family, you've seen that that especially during COVID, 581 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: you've seen that shift to this online classroom which is 582 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: pretty easy to game. Is that a hot take? 583 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I didn't have experience with this, 584 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: you guys. But I'm just looking at Brainley's website and 585 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 2: it's described as like a tutor, right an AI helper 586 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: with your homework. 587 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 3: You know, and that aspect of it doesn't seem completely 588 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: shockingly awful to me. I think even in the segment, 589 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 3: the news segment, I had mentioned like the idea of 590 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: using AI as a helper for teachers, you know, as 591 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: a supplementary tool, but you know, having that be the 592 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 3: whole thing just seems really ill advise. But sorry, Matt, 593 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: please carry on. 594 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 2: Oh no, I just I'm just pointing. I'm looking at 595 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 2: the website right now, and it's got a lot of 596 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 2: people saying about how much they love it and it 597 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: helps out. But it appears that you could literally write 598 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: in or take a picture of, or scan or whatever 599 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 2: you got to do to get let's say, a pretty 600 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 2: complicated math equation into the system, and then it'll just 601 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 2: spit out the answer for you. 602 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: And perhaps, you know, the big thing. A lot of 603 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: educational institutions and to be honest, a lot of adult 604 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: institutions are working with is the fundamental importance of transparency. 605 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: When people are using these tools right, and they're not 606 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: telling their teacher they're using these tools, and they're not 607 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: being upfront and public about it, it becomes incredibly ethically fraudulent. 608 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: It reminds me of our earlier conversation with our pal 609 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: John Wallzac from Missing in Arizona, who does uses AI 610 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: tools to replicate the voice of a guy named Robert 611 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: Fisher and from the jump is very honest that this 612 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: is what's happening. You know, this is a technology we 613 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: are leveraging. So it reminds me also as we continue, 614 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: it reminds me of one of my friends who is 615 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: an educator at a local school what you would call 616 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: an in need school, and this board guys had I 617 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: asked him about chat GPT right and the importance of 618 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: transparency there, like don't use it and pretend that you're 619 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: not and he said, he said, yeah, man, I'm not 620 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: going to do his voice keep that part in, Dylan, 621 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: but he said, yeah, man, I've had these essays from 622 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: these kids. I know they're really smart, but a couple 623 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: of times I've had to say, I give you a 624 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: zero and I give chat GPT for a one hundred. 625 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's the right take. I 626 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: don't know if that's the right tact. We are not 627 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: ourselves educators. But to your point, Matt, this feels increasingly 628 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 1: mission critical transparency, arming people with information. What else could 629 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: you want with kids? Right? 630 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and you want transfer back, which is why 631 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,919 Speaker 2: it's so important to you know, give it to them. 632 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, if the teacher is leveraging this sort of stuff, 633 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: we can only assume that if they are a good 634 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: faith actor, they're also explaining, you know, their means and methods, 635 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: and they're not going to try to obscure Oh, to 636 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: be a professor at this point, you know. 637 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: Well, I'm watching it happen in real time with my 638 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 2: son when when I, you know, sit down with him 639 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 2: with his homework and stuff. And there are concepts like 640 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 2: basic mathematics concepts as strategies maybe let's say that I've 641 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 2: never encountered before. 642 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, like the thing where you count the dots 643 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: on there's. 644 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 2: No no, you're right, but there's there's stuff in there 645 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 2: in ways he gets to an answer like that and 646 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 2: I go, how did you do that? I couldn't do 647 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 2: that in my head, And honestly, it's because I had 648 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: a calculator. I had a calculator for most of the 649 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 2: stuff when I was at least older and really thinking 650 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: about some of these higher order things. And he's only 651 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 2: doing you know, pretty basic division in multiplication right now. 652 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: But also, shout out Texas Instruments. Those guys are how 653 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: are they still the top top dog of school calculators? 654 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 2: And they're not just in calculators, man, Texas Instruments is 655 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 2: a fascinating company. 656 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. If you guys have ever seen the show 657 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 3: Halt and catch Fire that talks about Texas being the 658 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 3: Silicon Prairie, they were very much neck and neck with 659 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 3: northern California in terms of that kind of space race 660 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 3: for the personal computers. Really interesting show that has a 661 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 3: lot of truth to it. It's historical fiction. But highly 662 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 3: recommend that. And I didn't know much about Texas Instruments 663 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 3: and those terms, but they really did have a huge impact. 664 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: Great call. Yeah, that's a great recommendation. Also, just to 665 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: point it out, instruments is a very vague umbrella term, 666 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, We're in Texas. What do 667 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: you make instruments? This interview is. 668 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 2: Truck shit, very sizes and applications. 669 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,839 Speaker 1: Yes, there it is, you know, really weird disruptors. 670 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 3: Whatever. 671 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: So docer B continues and says, there is also the 672 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: issue of the socialization that is missing in most cyber environments. 673 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: One of the most important things that young people learn 674 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: throughout their kindergarten to twelve experience is how to be 675 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: humans and how to interact with other humans. A large 676 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,399 Speaker 1: percentage of the young people who are learning at home 677 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: during the lockdown never recovered to where they should be emotionally. 678 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: Many of this year's college freshmen are still emotionally where 679 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: they should have been around the ninth and tenth grade, 680 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: and they are not prepared for the college environment. I 681 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: don't know, and do we have any notes on that one, 682 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 1: because I've I've seen it, you know. I have some 683 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: kids that are in like my friend and family circle, 684 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: who are pandemic babies and all their friends were adults 685 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: for yeah, a couple of years, And that's real kick 686 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: in the pants. 687 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 2: The only it's not a one to one, but the 688 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 2: only thing I compare it to in my mind is 689 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: that I'm a nine to eleven kid like that. So 690 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 2: nine to eleven happened right towards the end of high 691 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 2: school for me, and it shaped me a lot same well, 692 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 2: because so many other things and concepts got introduced right 693 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 2: at that time, right, and ways of thinking about the 694 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: world and other people. And it really just put a 695 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 2: lens over the front of my viewing device. I don't 696 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, but worth it, but I feel 697 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 2: like that has occurred for these kids, right, all that 698 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 2: stuff they went through, thinking about the vulnerability that exists 699 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 2: just in this whole system that we run and we 700 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,720 Speaker 2: call civilization. I don't know, and conceptually their minds probably 701 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 2: can't even fully wrap around some of that stuff. So 702 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 2: it's almost like, I don't know, it's a state of 703 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 2: unease that doesn't have a explanation yet. 704 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, without sounding hyperbolic, the real cages 705 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: are often not the cages you can see. They're the 706 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: starting assumptions, right, the framework, as you said, the screen 707 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: through which we view a thing. And I think that's 708 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:21,720 Speaker 1: an excellent and deeply disturbing point. Matt doctor b continues, Finally, 709 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to mention the negative health aspects of sitting 710 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: at a screen, Doctor B, we have talked about this 711 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: on our own cough cough, just hanging out. 712 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 2: How many hours has been today? 713 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so doctor B, this is an accountability 714 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: moment for us. Doctor B points out, quote, we should 715 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: all be moving at least four hours a day, and 716 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: children should be moving even more than that. Sitting at 717 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: a screen for long periods of time will have negative 718 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: impacts on their physical and mental health. It can also 719 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: do permanent damage to their eyes because of the blue screen. 720 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: They use a filter. Doctor be got us. Doctor be 721 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 1: got us pretty good. 722 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 3: On that one. 723 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 2: I have a pair of those Blueshift glasses. 724 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 4: Member. 725 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: They look really good on you too. 726 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they did ghosts. I wore them to the 727 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 2: first iHeart Podcast Awards that we ever got to go to. 728 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 2: I think you guys were there, right, yeah, we were 729 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,720 Speaker 2: all there. I think well, when Will Ferrell was on stage, 730 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 2: I specifically remember we took photos and I had those 731 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,320 Speaker 2: dang things on and I look at them now and 732 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,840 Speaker 2: I go, why was I doing that in theater? 733 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 3: Those are not the ghost goggles. 734 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 2: Ghost goggles are a different thing. 735 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: Okay, cool, but we should all get some pairs anyway, 736 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: Doctor B says, thanks, again for all the information you share. 737 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: It would be great, if you haven't already, if you 738 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: could do an episode on the history of public education. 739 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: Many people do not know the origins or how horribly 740 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: integration was handled after Brown versus Board of Education. Have 741 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 1: a blessed day, docer By, So thank you, doctor b. 742 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: You know, we paused along the way to explore some 743 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: of this stuff. But I don't think our conspiracy realist 744 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: here is speaking into a vacuum. It feels like we 745 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: all largely agree with the points raised. I'm so glad 746 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: none of these seem like hot takes. You guys. We also, 747 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: I imagine, we have our own wealth of personal experiences 748 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: that apply to many of these points. 749 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 2: Oh you guys, speaking of personalized experience, do you guys 750 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 2: remember we went to California? Did those meta videos. 751 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: Into the metaverse? 752 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 3: How could I forget? 753 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 4: Well? 754 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 2: We did one with is it Carolina Carolina Barlow? Yes, 755 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 2: Carolina Barlo. We did one with her, and I don't 756 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 2: know if you guys remember when we were chatting with 757 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 2: her before and after the shoot. She was telling us 758 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 2: about a documentary road trip that she and Will Ferrell 759 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: will shooting. 760 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 3: It looks amazing where it's his best friend and co 761 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 3: writer collaborator who is trans and them going on this 762 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 3: road trip together and it just being this incredible bonding 763 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 3: experience where they just learned more about each other than 764 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 3: they had in decades of knowing each other previously. 765 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Will and Harper and we're not sponsored 766 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,919 Speaker 2: by them. I just want to put this out there. 767 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 2: It was crazy to see the trailer of it and 768 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 2: then to see some of the behind the scenes where 769 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 2: Carolina's there and they're just shooting that stuff, and it 770 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 2: just made me think of that time we had out 771 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: there and it was cool. 772 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: Nice, nice. And this brings us to because that feels 773 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: like a letter from home for us. This brings us to. 774 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: One of our last things for this Evening's program, we 775 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: heard from Sam, and Sam just wrote us the nicest 776 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: piece of correspondence. We'll read just a little bit of it. Hi, guys, 777 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: I'm Sam, I'm a long time stuff they don't want 778 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: you to know. Listener. I absolutely love listening to each 779 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,760 Speaker 1: and every episode while on road trips, working from home 780 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: as a nonprofit fundraiser, or taking my dog kids for 781 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: walks around the neighborhood here in Ashville. I don't have 782 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,359 Speaker 1: any conspiracy news, but I've just wanted to say hi 783 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: there to you all, and thank you so much for 784 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: a long time now. You guys make me laugh and 785 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: you make me think I really enjoy what you all 786 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,280 Speaker 1: put out into the universe. And then his bonus credit Sam, 787 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: you included some amazing pictures of your rescue doggos Lucy 788 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: and Beans and told us that you do photo shoots 789 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: with them every Halloween season. I might need an insulin shot. 790 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 1: This was just so sweet. Does that land? Is that 791 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: how insulin works? I think it is, so we want 792 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: to with that. Thank you so much to docer B, 793 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: to Anonymous, to meta agent or medigant, and thank you 794 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,799 Speaker 1: to Sam, Lucy and Beans. Thanks to everybody reached out 795 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: to us. Stay tuned for our future explorations. As always, 796 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: we have such wonders to show you and we can't 797 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,359 Speaker 1: do it without you, and we can't wait to hear 798 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: from you. 799 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 3: That's right, Reach out and touch faith or you know 800 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 3: us stuff they don't want you to know. You know 801 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 3: we are. You can find us at the handle conspiracy 802 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 3: Stuff on Facebook, where you can join our Facebook group. 803 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy and get in on the 804 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 3: memory and conversation surrounding every single episode that we put out. 805 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 3: We are also conspiracy stuff on x fka, Twitter as 806 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 3: well as youtwo or. We have video content galore for 807 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 3: YouTube consume on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are conspiracy 808 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 3: stuff show. 809 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 2: I finally caught up and saw the picture of Lucy 810 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 2: and Beans finally, and it's amazing. Lucy Lucy rules Beans 811 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 2: is amazing too. But Lucy's just got this like snaggeltooth 812 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 2: thing going on. It's it's great. Okay. If you want 813 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,400 Speaker 2: to call us and use your phone in your mouth 814 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 2: or your computer in your mouth, whatever your mouth is 815 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 2: probably going to be involved. Call one eight three three 816 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 2: st d WYTK. When you call in, you've got three minutes, 817 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname, and say whatever you'd like. 818 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 2: Just please include whether or not we can use your 819 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 2: name and message on the air. If you got more 820 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 2: to say than could fit in that voicemail, why not 821 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 2: instead send us a good old fashioned email. 822 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 823 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 1: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void 824 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: writes back, So join us out here in the dark 825 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 826 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 2: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a production 827 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 828 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,359 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.