1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Previously on Happy Face. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 2: Keith H. 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: Jesperson forty made his admission Friday to Detective Rick Buckner 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: in a telephone conversation. 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety five, when I heard the news about 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 3: my dad, I was dating a guy named Nick. It 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 3: was a very dysfunctional relationship. When things were good, they 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 3: were good. When things were bad, they were extremely bad. 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: Physical. 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 4: There was something about your dad you wanted to tell me, 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 4: and you weren't sure what to believe in. It was 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 4: shocking and I didn't know what to think either. 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, we were as young. 14 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies 15 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: I planned to tell when I was arrested. What made 16 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: me cross the line into murder? Maybe it was my nature. 17 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 6: There was a statement from the son of Julie Winningham, 18 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 6: the victim. 19 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: Obviously he's torn up at devastate, rightfully. 20 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 5: So, and wanted my dad to be killed. 21 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after found 22 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: out is when the news hit about my dad. 23 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 3: So I felt like the only option for me to 24 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 3: break out of this was to not have a baby. 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: A couple months later, I got a letter from my dad. 26 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: He said he deserved to be in prison with me. 27 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: You're a killer just like me. 28 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: The biggest spearing is that I can be like my father. 29 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 7: I look like my father. 30 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: I wonder about DNA. 31 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: And the vies in the fes with the sun. I 32 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: don't know shine. 33 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 8: I was shiver. 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 9: Oh through. 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 4: One of the things people ask is how did Keith 36 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 4: get away with it for so long? And people offer 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 4: a variety of reasons. Some say he was smart or 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 4: careful in many ways. But when you look at the 39 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 4: case of his first victim, Tanya Bennett, he really just 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 4: got lucky for a few years, at least on Lauren 41 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: Dray Pacheco. This is happy Face. 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen. 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: On a chilly winter day in Portland, Oregon, Tanya Bennett 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: kissed her mother goodbye and said she was off to 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: meet a boyfriend. She disappeared from sight in the direction 46 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: of a bus stop. Her walkman plugged into her ears. 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: Tanya was mildly retarded from oxygen deprivation at birth. She'd 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: been a difficult child. In a cooking class at Cleveland 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: High School, she assaulted a classmate in a quarrel over 50 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: a piece of cake. Addicted to alcohol, and drugs. She 51 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: hustled drinks, shot pool and got into trouble with men. Recently, 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: she'd complained to her mother that a man had taken 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: her home from the B and I tavern, beaten her 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: and quote pimped me out end quote. She said she 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: was afraid to go back to the same bar, but 56 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: her memory had always been short. 57 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 4: When you read the Jack Olsen book or the news 58 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 4: articles from the time, it's apparent why Tanya Bennett was 59 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 4: chosen as prey. She comes across as pretty and sweet, 60 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: but also naive and troubled. What happened to her is tragic, 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: But what's strange about the crime is that there's so 62 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 4: many people who wanted to take credit for it. There's 63 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: a couple Laverne Pavlanak and John Zevsnofsky, who come forward 64 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: and get arrested. 65 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: The Oregonian January seventeenth, nineteen ninety one, by Fred Leeson 66 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: Laverne A. Pavlnac is accused of four counts of agriva murder, rape, 67 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: sex abuse, kidnapping, and felony murder for the death of 68 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Tanya A. Bennett, a twenty three year old woman whose 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: nude body was found last January in the Columbia Gorge, 70 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: Deputy District Attorney James McIntyre told a Moltnoma County Circuit 71 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: court that Pavlanak fed police anonymous tips that led to 72 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the arrest of her longtime boyfriend John A. Sasnovsky. Then, 73 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: McIntyre said Pavlanak later told police that she had tied 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: and held a rope around Bennett's neck while Sisnovsky beat 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: the woman and sexually assaulted her. 76 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 4: But Laverne and her boyfriend John weren't the only ones 77 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 4: trying to claim credit for this case. When they were 78 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: arrested for the Bennett murder. Keith wanted credit for his crime, 79 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 4: so he started sending anonymous letters to The Oregonian and 80 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 4: graffitiing truck stop bathrooms for attention. But the thing is, 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 4: Keith gets so many of the details wrong, and you 82 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 4: can start to wonder did he really do it? We 83 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 4: wanted to hear the details from Phil Stanford, the Oregon 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: journalist who received those letters and covered the case. 85 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 10: Quote honor about January twentieth, nineteen ninety I picked up 86 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 10: Sonya Bennett and took her home. I raped her and 87 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 10: beat her real bad. Her face was all broke up. 88 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 10: Then I ended her life by pushing my fist into 89 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 10: her throat unquote. 90 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 8: Right away. Something doesn't fit in the. 91 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 10: First place, as you already know if you follow local 92 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 10: crime news. The name is Tanya, not Sonya Bennett, and 93 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 10: she was killed according to the experts who examined the 94 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 10: body on the night of January twenty first, not the twentieth. 95 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 10: But that's not the biggest problem here. The problem, if 96 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 10: that's the word for it, is that two people are 97 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 10: already serving time in prison for the crime. 98 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,239 Speaker 4: After her dad's arrest, Melissa started reading Phil Stamford's articles 99 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 4: in The Oregonian at her local library. It's how she 100 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 4: learned the horrific details of her dad's crimes and who 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 4: her father really was. So naturally, she had a lot 102 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 4: of questions for Phil about why her dad wasn't caught earlier. 103 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 6: Could you tell me who these people are, these strangers, 104 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 6: and how they're associated with my dad's case. 105 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 8: Well, the reason Laverne Pavnmak and John Sosnovski ended up 106 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 8: in prison for the Tanya Bennett murder is that Laverne, 107 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 8: who's this sixty three year old ding that was trying 108 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 8: to get rid of her boyfriend, who was actually much younger. 109 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 8: A barfly coud get out work at the sawmill every 110 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 8: day and head for the bar, and she'd have to 111 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 8: go pick him up at the truck stop bar and 112 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 8: bring him home, putting to bed and go. At least 113 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 8: he was working, but she wanted to get him out 114 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 8: of house, and she had tried before several times calling 115 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 8: his parole officer, tried to get him at least taken 116 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 8: out of the house. It didn't work. So when she 117 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 8: read the story inside of The Oregonian about how body 118 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 8: had been found in the gorge, she made an anonymous 119 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 8: call to the Sheriff's office saying she thought it was 120 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 8: this guy, John Saysnovski, And when that didn't work, she 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 8: made another call like that that they eventually figured out 122 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 8: who was coming from. So the Sheriff's office went out 123 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 8: and talked to her and she said, yeah, she was 124 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 8: at the bar and she heard him bragging about wasting 125 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 8: a woman in the gorge. And they came back the 126 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 8: next day with a search warrant, and she didn't have 127 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 8: anything more to say, but on the search warrant they 128 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 8: said they were looking for that fly that had been 129 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 8: cut off her jeans and her first that was missing. 130 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 8: Next day Laverne called in and said she had the 131 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 8: fly and the first she found him in the trunk 132 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 8: of John's car. So they said, oh boy. So they 133 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 8: came out and got them. Well, they analyzed them. Then 134 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 8: they realized it wasn't the fly from her jeans, and 135 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 8: it wasn't her purse. 136 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of that. 137 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 8: Without telling the whole story, she kept lying again and 138 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 8: they'd find out the next lie was wrong, and so 139 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 8: she opped it, and after about five visits she convinced 140 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 8: him by saying she had participated in the murder with 141 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 8: John Sosnowsky. In fact, it held the rope around her 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 8: neck while t racher wow, which was nonsense, and they said, 143 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 8: thank you very much. So she wasn't any longer a 144 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 8: witness who might be making up story. She was an accomplice. 145 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 8: They charged her and the boyfriend she was trying to 146 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 8: get out of the house. Of course, by the time 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 8: the case came to trial, she said, no, I was 148 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 8: just making it up. With the videotape they'd made of 149 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 8: her false confession against the jury, they convicted her, and 150 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 8: when Sazanovsky saw what was happening, He took a plea 151 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 8: because he realized that if he went to trial and 152 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 8: they had already convicted Laverne, he'd probably end up getting executed, 153 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 8: so he pled guilty. That's Laverne, Kadlanak, and john Sasnovsky. 154 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 4: So this is all intriguing, but we wanted to know 155 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 4: how did the police get this so wrong? We spoke 156 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 4: with private investigator Chris Peterson, who worked as a detective 157 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 4: for the Moltnoma County Sheriff's Department at the time of 158 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 4: Tanya Bennett's murder. So they were already tried and found 159 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 4: guilty and sent to prison. 160 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 9: That's correct. When I got involved, they were They had 161 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 9: been in prison for some time. 162 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: What was the police reaction to the letters and the 163 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 4: graffiti claiming the actual killer was still at large? 164 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 9: You know, I really don't have a good answer for. 165 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 10: That, Detective Ingram wrote the report on the night bartender 166 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 10: Ann Wilson quote. Miss Wilson was asked specifically about January 167 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 10: twenty first, nineteen ninety and she recalled Tanya Bennett being 168 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 10: in the tavern at five pm when she arrived for work. 169 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 10: Miss Wilson said Tanya Bennett seemed to hang around with 170 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 10: two guys who were playing pool at a table at 171 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 10: the east end of the tavern. Unquote, Wilson described one 172 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 10: of the men as being about thirty years old, about six', 173 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 10: two with, short blonde. Hair all she could remember about 174 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 10: the second one is that he was somewhat. Shorter although 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 10: the detectives never did succeed in identifying the two young 176 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 10: men seen playing pool With tanya on the night of the, 177 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 10: murder at the, time they could have been excused for 178 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 10: thinking that they were on the right. Track before the 179 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 10: day was, over though they would have have reason to 180 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 10: change their. 181 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 4: Minds it's like a sick comedy of. ERROR i mean it's. 182 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 8: Oh, yeah it's a very, dark dark. 183 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 10: Comedy the, caller a, woman said she had overheard a 184 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 10: man In, jabs a restaurant at The Burn's brothers truck 185 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 10: stop In, wilsonville bragging that he had Killed Tanya. BENNETT 186 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 10: a week, Later february, twelfth the same woman called The 187 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 10: Clackamus County Sheriff's department and gave them the same information 188 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 10: as she reminded. Them the, man his, name she said 189 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 10: Was John, sazanovsky was on probation In Clacamus. County maybe 190 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 10: they could check him. Out ingram Called sasanovsky's parole, Officer Steve, 191 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 10: bracey and together they figured out who was probably making the. 192 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 10: Calls her name Was Laverne. 193 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 4: Pavlanak as we heard the detail of the, story there 194 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 4: is a little doubt that creeps In keith got the 195 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 4: names and dates. Wrong and As melissa, realized there's one 196 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 4: Detail laverne got. 197 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: Right he did come up. 198 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 6: With one really critical piece of. Evidence AND i don't 199 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 6: know how she manufactured, this but she brought the detectives 200 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 6: to Where Tanya bennett's body was. 201 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 8: Found how, well they drove her out to the place 202 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 8: along this old scenic. Highway and one of the things 203 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 8: that the sectors thought was so convincing was that she, said, 204 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 8: oh it was over. There, well they'd already marked the 205 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 8: place with red dye or some sort of red marker 206 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 8: along the. 207 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 6: Highway So laverne saw the marker on the highway and 208 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 6: realized that's probably where the body. 209 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 8: Was, yeah there's obviously a crying. 210 00:12:50,760 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 10: Scene on the strength Of pavlovac's, confession which she tried 211 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 10: to explain away at, trial a jury convicted her to 212 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 10: avoid a possible death sentence for aggravated. Murder sasnovsky then 213 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 10: pleaded no contest to felony murder and. Rape three years, 214 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 10: Later sasnovsky has exhausted all his. Appeals padlanak's plea for 215 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 10: a new trial was rejected this month by The Oregon 216 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 10: court Of. Appeals never a high profile case to begin 217 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 10: with the murder Of Tanya bennett became a closed, one 218 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 10: and quite likely if it weren't for the anonymous letter 219 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 10: that arrived At The oregonian earlier this month from a 220 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 10: man claiming to have killed five women In oregon And, 221 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 10: california Including Tanya, bennett the case might well have remained. 222 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 4: Forgotten as Reporter Phil stamford told, us Had keith not 223 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 4: started writing the, newspaper police might never have found. Him 224 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 4: but to hear more about, That melissa AND i reached 225 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 4: out To jim, McNeely a retired detective from The Moltnomah 226 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 4: County Sheriff's. 227 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 11: DEPARTMENT i got involved when we started getting the letters 228 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 11: sent to us from your. Dad somebody sent us some 229 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 11: pictures of from writing on the wall in the restroom 230 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 11: In montana where they said two people are in jail 231 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 11: for something, idea and that was followed up by a 232 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 11: letter that came to The Washington County court or, something 233 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 11: and they forwarded it to. Us and then another letter 234 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 11: came to A Phil stanford reporter in The, oregonion and 235 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 11: that letter goes came to. Us and then when we 236 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 11: followed up on the, case when your dad, came there 237 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 11: was a lot of talk around the department that we 238 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 11: still had the right people and whoever was writing these 239 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 11: letters was making this stuff. Up WHEN i got involved with, 240 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 11: it in my, Partner Chris, peterson we followed up on 241 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 11: it from. 242 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 10: There in an interview this week at The Oregon State, Prison, 243 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 10: sisnovsky once the passive, barfly bristled with anger when asked 244 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 10: whether he was guilty of Killing Tanya. BENNETT i never 245 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 10: met the, girl he, SAID i never killed anybody in my. 246 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 10: Life he blames, everything he said in a rambling diatribe 247 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 10: on a conspiracy that includes The Oregon state bar The 248 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 10: Moltloma County District attorney's, office the detectives who investigated the, 249 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 10: case and of course his former Housemate Laverne. Pavlinak she framed, 250 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 10: me he, said. 251 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 6: So then when you get this letter from my, dad 252 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 6: and he, SAID i Killed Tanya. 253 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: Bennett did you instantly believe this letter was? True what 254 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: did you think about this? 255 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 8: Letter, well there was something very believable about. It he 256 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 8: knew what he was talking, about and he had information 257 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 8: on those murders that hadn't been in the papers down 258 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 8: wherever the bodies were. Found so there was something to. 259 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 8: It and it was a matter that of going back 260 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 8: and analyzing The Tanya bennett, case the, investigation and WHAT 261 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 8: i contributed really was sort of a deconstruction of the, 262 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 8: case showing that they'd manufactured the, case they'd manufactured the. 263 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 6: Confession so when you got that, letter that was one, 264 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 6: letter but you ultimately received more. 265 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: Letters is that? 266 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 5: Correct? 267 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 8: Yeah after he was, captured we, corresponded, okay we were 268 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 8: trying together to prove that THE da was wrong and 269 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 8: he was guilty of The Tanya bennett. 270 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: Murder which is interesting that he's trying to prove his. 271 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: Guilt he wanted. Credit. Yeah, yeah did you ever meet 272 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: my dad in? Person? 273 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 8: Oh, yeah after he was. ARRESTED i talked to him 274 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 8: in The Clark county jail and they just let him. 275 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 8: Out there was a big folding picnic, table and HERE 276 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 8: i was sitting across from this hawking. GUY i mean 277 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 8: he's very, BIG i guess six' seven something, like that 278 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 8: and talking to him About The tanya. Bennett murder and 279 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 8: as the conversation, quickly developed how we were going to 280 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 8: prove that he was guilty Of The tanya? Bennett murder. 281 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 4: What was he saying? 282 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: To You he. 283 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 8: I'm not sure to this day how to read him at. 284 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 8: That point at, THE time i thought he was sort 285 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 8: of unburdening his soul if he wanted. To confess another 286 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 8: way of looking at out of, the course would be 287 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 8: that he wanted to get credit, for this and it 288 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 8: was his way of sort of proving that he was establishing. 289 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 4: This identity did he come across as wanting, Your, help. 290 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 8: Well he wanted, my help and OF course i. Wanted his, 291 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 8: you KNOW what i needed was some way to prove 292 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 8: that he was telling the Truth About. Tanya bennett and 293 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 8: so he offered two ways of. Proving it one was 294 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 8: that when he, told her he said blood was everywhere 295 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 8: and even splattered on. The ceiling oh. 296 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 6: MY gosh i actually stayed in the House Where tanya bennett, 297 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 6: was murdered and there was a NIGHT that i went 298 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 6: and slept in the living room on, the COUCH and 299 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 6: i remember looking up at the ceiling and seeing splatter on, 300 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 6: the ceiling thinking it was, spaghetti sauce and just staring 301 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 6: at IT as i was trying to go, To sleep 302 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 6: and when you just, SAID that i WONDER if i 303 00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 6: was looking. 304 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: At blood oh. 305 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 10: My. 306 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 8: Yeah YEAH so i went back to. The house it 307 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 8: had been bought, and sold and they had the new 308 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 8: owners had painted, that room, the bedroom including. THE ceiling 309 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 8: i went TO the da with THAT and, i said 310 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 8: you could scrape the paint off and DO a, dna 311 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 8: analysis and, he, said no we don't want to. Do 312 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 8: that the other thing, he said the key said was 313 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 8: after he Dropped off tanya's body in, the gorge, driving 314 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 8: back he threw her purse out at a certain place 315 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 8: and he remembered where it was as. A field and, 316 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 8: in fact that is eventually how it was proved to the, 317 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 8: DA's satisfaction to the, court satisfaction that he was telling 318 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 8: the truth and that He Killed, tanya bennett because one 319 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 8: of the sheriff's deputies, m McNelly who's really the hero, 320 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 8: in this took a troop of boy scouts out to 321 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 8: that field and for two or three days cut away 322 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 8: the BlackBerry bushes that had grown. UP there i mean 323 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 8: they grow Fast in oregon and four. Years, Growth yeah 324 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 8: i've been. 325 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: Up there it, gets dense and they found the purse. 326 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 9: WITH her i. D Wow. 327 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 4: So jessperson kind of saw you as a partner. 328 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 8: In, this yeah it was. Very strange we were. Conspiring 329 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 8: together here we were as working for a newspaper and 330 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 8: he was trying to confess to. A murder we both 331 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 8: knew that two people were in prison for a crime, 332 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 8: he committed but, the Authorities the sheriff's department and the 333 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 8: DA's office certainly weren't going to admit they'd made a mistake, 334 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 8: like that and basically but developed as that we were 335 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 8: conspiring to prove that he. 336 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 4: Was guilty now you have to remember This is phil's 337 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 4: opinion on the way the investigation. Was handled the police 338 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 4: have their. 339 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 7: OWN story i got word from a friend of mine 340 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 7: At the sheriff's office that the detective. 341 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 8: Could been the leader in getting the false Confession From 342 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 8: laverne pablomak In The tiny. Bennic case had been down 343 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 8: in the state prison Talking, to jesperson encouraging him to 344 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 8: SAY that i had given him the information that he 345 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 8: had given to the police to prove that He Killed. 346 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 8: Tiny bennett in, other words it's trying To get jefferson to, 347 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 8: frame me and to his, eternal credit as Far as, 348 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 8: i'm concerned he did not lie. About it he, said 349 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 8: no it, didn't happen and it would have been very 350 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 8: easy for him, to lie and, after all it wouldn't 351 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 8: hurt him, at all and he might have even been 352 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 8: able to bargain it into extra privileges for helping out. 353 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 8: This detective but, he DIDN'T and i have TO say 354 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 8: i honor him. 355 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 9: For that. 356 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 4: Keith's code of honor is more than a bit. Twisted 357 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 4: here he wouldn't tolerate, dishonest cops thought himself, above them 358 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 4: and yet he was a brutal rapist. And murderer. 359 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 6: So when my dad was ultimately Convicted For tanya, bennett's 360 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 6: murder what Happened to John? 361 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 8: And, laverne well they, were released, Of course. 362 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 2: And how much time did they serve in prison before they. 363 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 7: WERE released i think about a couple. 364 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 10: Of. 365 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 8: Years WOW and i don't know Anything about LaVerne's experience, 366 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 8: in prison but it was particularly Hard, On, john saysnovsky 367 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 8: who was not a very strong person to. BEGIN with 368 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 8: i mean he was, an alcoholic and he was he 369 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 8: sort of. Lost it they put him in a room 370 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 8: in prison for the people who were. Mentally disturbed it's Called. 371 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 8: The thunderdome what? A? 372 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: Thunderdome why what happens in? 373 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 8: The thunderdome it was a big holding tank with a 374 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 8: guard sort of suspended in the middle on. A grate 375 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 8: AND what i remember about the story Is that saysnovsky would. 376 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 8: Just howl here he was locked up for life for 377 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 8: something he had pled. Guilty to but even at the 378 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 8: time he, pled guilty he knew he was not guilty 379 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 8: up it was. Completely. 380 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: Innocent though that would drive. Me, crazy yeah that would drive. 381 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: ME crazy i. Yeah that what else could you do? 382 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 10: But? 383 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: Scream? Oh yeah did you ever Talk to Laverne? Or 384 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: john do you think that they? REGRETTED this. 385 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 8: I Talked, with LAVERNE and i don't think She really 386 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 8: i'm sure she, regretted It but i'm not convinced she 387 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 8: ever really understood how how wrong what she. Did was 388 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 8: she was emotionally. DULLED herself, i mean she was taking 389 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 8: a lot, of pills fantasized, a lot read a lot 390 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 8: of cheap, detective stories which is probably how she got 391 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 8: the idea that she could turn someone in for a 392 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 8: murder and it would just all. 393 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 7: Go away. 394 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 4: MELISSA and i, were, curious though How did John and 395 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 4: laverne react to. Being Freed Here's Detective chris, Peterson Again. 396 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 9: John SISTOVSKY when i went down to interview him in 397 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 9: the prison with the prosecutor, a prosecutor he. Was incoherent he. 398 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 9: Was babbling it was actually a little. Bit scary verne 399 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 9: acted like a grandmother when we were working. WITH her, 400 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 9: i mean she was, pretty, calm collected and she did 401 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 9: her very best to convince me that she wasn't responsible for, 402 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 9: the murder which. WAS true i think we had her take. 403 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 9: A polygraph i don't think We had sisnovsky take a 404 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 9: polygraph because of his, metal state but. 405 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 4: It sounds like he was another One of jefferson's. 406 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 9: Victims Indirectly john sisowsky was definitely a Victim of Jefferson. 407 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 9: AND laverne, i mean, those People, particularly laverne had no 408 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 9: place in. An institution she created a space and institution 409 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 9: for herself by confessing on, a TAPE and i was 410 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 9: played to a jury and they. Convicted her but he 411 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 9: victimized those two and as well as a lot of 412 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 9: victims that. Didn't survive did she ever? Thank you she 413 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 9: was very unappreciative of our efforts to get. Her out 414 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 9: the family never really spoke. To us they. WERE critical 415 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 9: i think of, the POLICE and i think the district 416 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 9: attorney's Office a, momma mccanti and the sheriff's Office in 417 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 9: portland did a great job in terms of getting to 418 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 9: the bottom of, this case and even a mistake had, 419 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 9: been made and the district attorney and the sheriff both 420 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 9: told me that we don't want you doing anything else 421 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 9: until this matter gets resolved to. Our satisfaction and Just. 422 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 5: Because i'm Curious with Laverne, and john were they immediately 423 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 5: released after my dad was sentenced? 424 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 8: That, day, no no. 425 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 9: They weren't post conviction rey was a very complicated legal 426 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 9: procedure and there is really no remedy for reversing a 427 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 9: jury's decision in the State. Of oregon if a jury 428 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 9: finds you guilty, of homicide it's kind of chipped. In 429 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 9: stone so they were not. Released immediately it took a 430 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 9: while to get them out. Of prison it wasn't like 431 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 9: your dad gets convicted and the door. Is open my 432 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 9: understanding Is That, John sissovsky I'm assuming john's, still alive 433 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 9: still has a MURDER conviction iic record because post, conviction 434 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 9: relief meaning changing a verdict's opinion of, a jury is 435 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 9: very difficult to do in the State of oregon and. 436 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 5: Most states that's how Horrible for john that he would 437 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 5: have this still potentially on, his record even though he was. 438 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 5: Completely innocent that must have impacted, his employment his life. 439 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 5: After this that's, really, surprising though you know that it 440 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 5: would be. 441 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 9: Like, that yeah, it is but that was the state 442 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 9: of the law twenty five, years AGO and i don't 443 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 9: know that SHAME. 444 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: From I the creation of A serial Killer By jack 445 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: olsen in jail awaiting transport to the, state penitentiary he 446 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: continued to play the lead role in his own. Dramatic 447 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: production on the Day That john Sasnovski And laverne pavlanac 448 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: were freed, for good he described his reaction To The associated, 449 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: PRESS quote i. STARTED crying i couldn't help myself for about. 450 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: TEN minutes i lost. TOTAL composure i was just. Very, 451 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: overjoyed basically my Feeling is god. Blessed them. End quote 452 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: he didn't explain why he'd allowed them to serve four 453 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: years for. His Crimes. 454 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 4: So, don fendley who is the Son of jessperson's last, 455 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 4: Known Victim, julianne winningham he has a lot of Anger, 456 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 4: towards laverne who is, now deceased but he believes that 457 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 4: if she, hadn't lied if she hadn't tried To, frame 458 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 4: john that there is a Chance that jessperson could have 459 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 4: been stopped before he murdered seven, more women including his. 460 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 9: OWN mother, I mean i understand, his concern and of 461 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 9: course he didn't murder anybody after He murdered julie because he. 462 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 9: Was arrested but, YOU know i don't want to speculate 463 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 9: that that this thing would have been solved, any earlier 464 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 9: but it's hard to. FOR me i can't say that 465 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 9: if it had Meant from Laverne that keith would have, 466 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 9: been arrested because he was not on. Anybody's Radar in 467 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 9: molma mccunny over The, tiny. 468 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 4: Benicades there's always been One person melissa has been afraid, 469 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 4: to meet the Son of jesper since, Last Victim. 470 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: Don findley i'm terrified that he's going to lash out 471 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: on me and blame me. 472 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 9: For his. 473 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 2: MOM'S murderer. 474 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 4: I texted him, for weeks and when he finally returned, 475 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 4: my text he didn't want to meet you. In person 476 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 4: he had a lot, of anger, you know from his point, 477 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 4: of view you're the daughter of the man who murdered. 478 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 4: His mother but we spoke for a couple of HOURS 479 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 4: and i was finally able to convince him to. 480 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 10: Meet You. 481 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: Happy face is a Production Of How. Stuff works executive 482 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: Producers Are, Melissa Moore, Lauren, Bright Pacheco, mangesha Ticketer And. 483 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: Will pearson supervising Producer Is. Noel brown Music By, Claire 484 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: Campbell paige Campbell and hope For A. Golden summer story 485 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: Editor Is. Matt riddle audio Editing By chandler Mays And. 486 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: Noel brown assistant Editor Is. Taylor chacoyne special Thanks To, 487 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: phil stanford the Publishers Of The oregonian NEWSPAPER And katu News, In. 488 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: Portland oregon