1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin, and today I really wanted to bring 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: our listeners and authentic and genuine experience. Kristen, I am 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: coming into this topic of insomnia completely sleep deprived. Oh no, 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I I do suffer abouts of crazy insomnia. Nothing like chronic, 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: nothing long term, nothing health issue related. It's more anxiety. 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: I tend to suffer from anxiety on and off, and 9 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: it causes these spirals of sleeplessness because whatever makes me anxious, 10 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: whether it's work or personal stuff, I suddenly lose the 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: ability to sleep. And then the more tired I get, 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: the more panicked I get that next night about sleeping, 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: and a vicious cycle of in some is created. Well, Caroline, 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: I you're really a method podcaster. See what I can do, 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: what I can summersing yourself in the topic, And I'm 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: sure that there are so many listeners who can relate 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: to that very cycle of insomnia. The experience. Well, I 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: would assume there are a lot of listeners out there 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: who could relate to it, because insomnia is something that 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people. It's a health 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: issue that a lot of people talk about, a lot 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: of people experience. Certainly here in the US, a lot 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: of people do. And there's a lot of money that 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: people pour into curing there insomnia. Yeah, just to get 25 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: a sense of how bad of a time we have sleeping, 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: specifically in the US, if you look at what the 27 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: so called sleep economy was worth in two thousand seven, 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: as reported on in the New York Times, we spend 29 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars a year on sleep aids of different 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: source is and sleep deprivation was also estimated to cost 31 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: US businesses one hundred fifty billion dollars annually in lost productivity. 32 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: I believe it, like when you come to work sleep 33 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: depri and I don't mean you like you Kristin Conger, 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: Like when Kristin Conger comes to work sleep deprived, but 35 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: when the general you comes to work sleep deprived, and 36 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: me specifically, and and me, let's be honest, I mean 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: it is so easy, for instance, I don't know, to 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: like find yourself staring out the window and realize you've 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: just been sitting there for ten minutes not doing anything. Yeah, 40 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: because your brain is just shutting down. Um, and The 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: thing is, they're actually eighty eight known sleep disorders and 42 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: insomnia even though we're probably all familiar with what it is. 43 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: In general, it's one of the least understood scientifically speaking, 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: Like doctors still aren't entirely sure what causes insomnia. We 45 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: know what it does. Yeah, Well, I mean when you 46 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: when you look at the causes and effects of insomnia 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: and the fact that they are underlying health conditions, but 48 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: it's sort of it gets into a chicken and the 49 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: egg thing like, Okay, Well, insomnia can cause things like 50 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: depression and anxiety, but it's also caused by depression and anxiety, 51 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: and it leads to some some awful things during your 52 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: day that you have to deal with. Yeah, And the 53 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: big reason why we're talking about insomnia on the podcast 54 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: is because it overwhelmingly affects more women than men. So first, 55 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: why don't we just talk about insomnia in general, which 56 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: is a sleep disorder characterized by difficulty falling and or 57 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: staying asleep. Yeah, and some other symptoms include just being 58 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: sleepy during the day, feeling tired when you wake up, 59 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: that feeling like you're never refreshed, irritability, problems with concentration, 60 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: and memory, tension, headaches, and of course mine, which is 61 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: like ongoing worries about sleep, like will I, well, I 62 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: have a beaple to sleep again. Well, would you characterize 63 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: here insomnia then as the acute insomnia or chronic insomnia? Well, 64 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: I would say that bout that I had a couple 65 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: of months ago. I would say that was definitely acute 66 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: because it's short term and versus chronic, which is at 67 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: least three nights a week for a month or longer. Um, 68 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: it was awful, and it was constant, and then it 69 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: was and then it was just gone. It fixed itself 70 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: over a Memorial Day weekend, thank goodness. And that insomnia 71 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: that I was suffering from, that acute insomnia, I'm pretty 72 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: sure it was primary insomnia versus secondaries to primaries, like 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: just regular run of the mill can't sleep because you're 74 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: feeling crazy, versus secondary which is actually sleep problems caused 75 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: by a health condition. So it's like if insomnia comes 76 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: into your bedroom just on its own, like hey, it's 77 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: just if it's just me late man, it is a 78 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: kool aid man of insomnia sleep disorders, and that's primary. 79 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: But if it's say, you know, you know, say depression, 80 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: walks into your bedroom is like, hey, also I brought along. Uh, 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: that's really cool, friend of mine insomnia, Ye, have fun 82 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: with both of us. Then the secondary Oh man, what 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: a great medical doctor I would well in speaking of 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,679 Speaker 1: secondary insomnia, depression, as I just mentioned, is often linked 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: to it also things like anxiety and stress. And according 86 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: to a recent study that came out from the American 87 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: Academy of Sleep Medicine, it's not just the stress itself, 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: it's also how we react to stress, which can exacerbate insomnia. Yeah, 89 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: if you're not dealing with your stress, and I'm sure 90 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people out there familiar with us, I'm 91 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: certainly familiar with us. If you're not dealing with your 92 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: stress and you're using poor coping mechanisms to try to 93 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: work around it, like turning to alcohol instead of stress 94 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: reduction techniques. We're all guilty of a glass of pino 95 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: griggia now and again, and that can actually contribute to 96 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: your stress induced insomnia. And they are also a number 97 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: of medical conditions such as issues with chronic pain, breathing difficulties, 98 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: or needing to urinate frequently that can provoke insomnia because 99 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: you know you're having to you know, it's waking you 100 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: up constantly during the night. Yeah. And then of course 101 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: there are things like poor sleep habits, certain medications, and 102 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: things like caffeine, which is an obvious one, nicotine, and 103 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: also alcohol. And you know, I think that this is 104 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: common knowledge, but it's worth repeating that a lot of 105 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: people do kind of turn to alcohol to wind down 106 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. But anyone who has 107 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: ever gone to bed after having a little too much 108 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: to drink might be familiar with the phenomenon of waking 109 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: up suddenly and being like, oh, well, the alcohol, we're off, 110 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: and now I'm not sleeping well at all. Yeah. Or 111 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: you might sleep through the night, but it's not RESTful sleep. 112 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: It's just drunk sleep. And then which is not good, 113 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: I guess. But that's something completely different from insomnia, but 114 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: it can contribute well. It can also contribute in relation 115 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 1: to alcohol. Speaking of alcohol, is your good old handy 116 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: dandy period. It's so andy and andy both. So during 117 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: your period, your progesterone, your hormone progesterone is highest around 118 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: ovulation and during your luteal or post ovulation phase, and 119 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: this hormonal cocktail can actually exacerbate the effects of alcohol. 120 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: But we have so much more period stuff to talk 121 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: about later. Yeah, because spoiler alert. When it comes to 122 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: women and our issues with insomnia, menstruation often is the 123 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: culprit hey hormones. I just picture like a giant crowd 124 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: of hormones all waving like penances. They're like at a 125 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: football game like that. We're not gonna let you sleep. 126 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: So now that we've established all the myriad ways that 127 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: we can be robbed of our sleep, the next question is, well, 128 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: what does insomnia do to you? And it's no big 129 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: surprise that it's a host of not so fun things 130 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: like lower job or school performance, slow reaction times while driving, 131 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: higher risks of accidents, probably due to that slower reaction 132 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: time while driving. It might also, in a bit of 133 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: a cycle, kickoff issues like depression or anxiety, which then 134 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: might contribute to more insomnia. Yeah, it is, it's all. 135 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Insomnia is part of just a terrible cycle of awful things. 136 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Because I mean, the more you get it, the worst 137 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: things get. Things like high blood pressure, it aggravates weking, 138 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: and obesity, heart disease, all this terrible stuff. But at work, 139 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen mentioned it contributes to lower job in 140 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: school performance as one would expect if you're like totally 141 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: tired and not firing on all cylinders. There was a 142 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: study in two thousand and six from the Journal of Management, 143 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: very straightforward name of a journal that talked about the 144 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: effects of insomnia on people at work. And yes, you know, 145 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: as you would imagine, it's associated with increased feelings of 146 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: hostility and fatigue and decreased feelings of joviality and attentiveness. 147 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: But that that is actually worse. These effects are actually 148 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: worse for women. Yeah, that finding in the study that 149 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: women's attitudes at work were affected more by insomnia is 150 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: stood out because there are also some studies that say 151 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: that women actually handle sleep deprivation better than men, at 152 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: least based on our performance on like computer related tasks 153 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 1: after not getting enough sleep. But I guess that's a 154 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: little bit different because it's looking at can you punch 155 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: keys on a keyboard versus can you talk to your 156 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: manager in the break room and not and not start 157 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: crying and yelling? Yes, right well now, And that that 158 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: study too that you just mentioned also was showing that 159 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: like women seem to suffer more from insomnia and also 160 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: believe that they're suffering from more from insomnia, but that they, 161 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: after like two good solid nights of sleep, recover better 162 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,479 Speaker 1: than men do. Oh and on top of that too, 163 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: women who are performing lots of housework, which is often 164 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: the case because women perform a majority of the housework, 165 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: it slows down that recovery period. If you're doing all 166 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: this housework, then you have less time to rest and 167 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: hopefully recover from that lost sleep. And this issue of 168 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: insomnia among women really shouldn't be ignored. And this is 169 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: um something that more and more medical research is starting 170 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: to highlight because insomnia might be signaling other kinds of 171 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: medical or psychiatric problems in lady sleepers. Right. Yeah, because 172 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: women are about twice as likely as men to suffer 173 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: from major depression during their lives, and it's nearly always 174 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: accompanied by difficulty sleeping. And also another big health issue 175 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: is obstructive sleep apnea. This is something that my mother 176 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: struggles with. She snores, has sleep apnea, and it really 177 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: messes up your sleep because you basically wake up gasping 178 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: for air. Um. But obstructive sleep apnea is a major 179 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: cause of insomnia, as you might imagine, and it's a 180 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: major contributor to heart disease, and before menopause, women are 181 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: about half as likely to have sleep apnia as men are, 182 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: but once they get past menopause they catch up to men, 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: those lucky ladies. Yeah, and after menopause too, as we'll 184 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: talk about more, the rates of insomnia among women escalate 185 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: as well. Right, Well, what's dangerous about this whole sleep apnea, 186 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: depression insomnia link is that because doctors are kind of 187 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: programmed to use not the best term, but kind of 188 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: programmed to think that it happens more frequently in men 189 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: than in women, they might overlook the signs of sleep 190 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: apniaan women and so, oh, you're just depressed, You're just tired, 191 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: But really, she has possibly a serious health issue going on. 192 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm programmed to say this. I'm a doctor, robot Dr Kristen, Yes, 193 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: Chris and robot um. Well, now that we've talked about 194 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: a lot of sort of external factors that interact with 195 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: insomnia and promote cycles of insomnia in women, let's really 196 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: focus in now on sleep and how that interacts with gender, 197 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of different gendered patterns. It 198 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: turns out of how we rest, and we'll talk more 199 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: about that when we get right back from a quick break. 200 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: So to first kick off this closer look at gender 201 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: and sleep, I just want to toss out this historical 202 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: tidbit from Insomnia, a Cultural History by Elena Summers Bremner, 203 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: who talks about how in the nineteenth century there was 204 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: at least one doctor who claimed that women need more 205 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: sleep because we're prone to nervous excitability, while another doctor 206 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century thought of insomnia as a morbid 207 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: deficiency of the brain, which was why women need more sleep. 208 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: There has for a long time been a lot of 209 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: focus on women and sleeping, but uh, you know, just 210 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: not for such fantastic reasons in the past. There there 211 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: was also this guy named s Weir mitchell Um who 212 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century developed what he called this 213 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: rest cure for women's hysteria, and essentially he would lock 214 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: up women in a room and just force them to 215 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: do like absolutely nothing whatsoever to try to just I guess, 216 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: break them down and cause them to be less hysterical. Yeah, look, 217 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: you're expressing your opinion way too much. We need you 218 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: to go in this room and just rest. Yeah, I know, 219 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: and rest care sounds so nice. I would love to 220 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: take a rest here at the beach. But oh wait, no, no, no, 221 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: not that kind of a rest cure, because you might 222 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: still be talking and expressing opinions at the beach. We 223 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: can't have that happening. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, So let's 224 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: look at let's look at the gendered breakdown of sleep. 225 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: Who sleeps more, who needs it more? Do women just 226 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: complain or do we actually have something to complain about? 227 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: Turns out that women spend fifteen more minutes in bed 228 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: than men do, but we sleep eleven minutes less. Yeah. Uh. 229 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: And when it comes to napping, guys, at least, agreeing 230 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: to research from the Pew Center, you take more napst 231 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: percent of men reported napping versus of women. So not 232 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: a major difference there. But when it comes to who 233 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: needs more sleep, doctors say women be needing some sleep 234 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: because of our hysterical uteruses. No, Caroline, No, it's actually, 235 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: at least, agreeing to professor Jim Horne, who's director of 236 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: the Sleep Research Center at Lowborough University in England, it 237 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: has to do with our tendency to multitask. Yeah, women 238 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: do multitask more than men do. That's on any blog 239 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: you'll find up there that will tell you that. But 240 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: apparently women need twenty minutes extra deep sleep in order 241 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: to rest our core text. The core text during the 242 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: night needs you to sleep so that it can disengage 243 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: from all of your crazy senses and go into recovery mode. 244 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,479 Speaker 1: And the more you use your brain during the day, 245 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: the more your cortex needs sleep. Although I wonder, and 246 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: this is a bit of a side note, if perhaps 247 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: another solution is to multitask less, because research also finds 248 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: that multitasking is not exactly better tasking, right, yeah, exactly. 249 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: I know. Well it's hard to resist multitasking that sometimes, Caroly, Well, 250 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: sure unless like, and I'm good at it to an extent. 251 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: I'm good at multitasking to an extent. But then my 252 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: like undie noosed adult a d D kicks in and 253 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: I'll just I'll start something over here, and then I'll 254 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: move over here and do something else, and then by 255 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: then my cortex is just like, we don't even know 256 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: what's going on, go to sleep, and then he just 257 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: just face plant on your cubicle. So if you ever 258 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: walked by me and I'm just like face down the 259 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: cubicle with the space bar going forever, just leave me. Well, 260 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't want to wake you up, Caroline, because 261 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: according to research out of Duke University, women are grumpier 262 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to losing sleep. They actually used the 263 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: words hostile and angry specifically in the morning, and anecdotally, 264 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: I've gotten better at being a morning person, but it 265 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: took years of training. I know that in high school 266 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: when my mother would wake me up, they would there 267 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: would be like an hour long window before I was 268 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: even approachable. Yeah. No, I I totally get it. I 269 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: am not a nice person and I'm like super tired 270 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: and I've just woken up, especially if I haven't slept well. 271 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: I have been known to throw the covers back and 272 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: yell I'm not sleeping, and you know, go storm mountain, 273 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: try to sleep on the couch. Yeah, I'm not social 274 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: for the first bit of the morning, but I think 275 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm not as not as hostile and angry as I 276 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: used to be. Um. But we might not just be 277 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: just old grumpy gusses for no good reason, because according 278 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: to these same Deuke University researchers, women actually suffer more 279 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: mentally and physically if we don't get enough sleep, which 280 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: then puts us at a higher risk for heart disease, depression, 281 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: and psychological disorders, and also podcasters referring to you as 282 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: a grumpy guss apparently, but yeah, it's it's scary and 283 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I mean, surely, like there's nothing 284 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: so bad about this. But in addition to all these 285 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: things that in ssomnia puts us at risk for, we 286 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: as women end up with higher inflammation markers, and basically 287 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: this indicates to a doctor that you are developing health 288 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: problems and their linked to pain. So well established women 289 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: need more sleep. Even though we might be laying in 290 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: the bed more, we aren't necessarily getting it. What is 291 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: going on because statistically, women are fifty percent likelier to 292 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: suffer from insomnia, And according to a survey from the 293 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: National Sleep Foundation that came out in two thousand seven, 294 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: single working women have it worse, which I was surprised 295 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: to see because I would have assumed it would have 296 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: been working moms. I would have thought so too, But 297 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: it turns out that single working women are probably we're 298 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: probably bringing it on ourselves because we're like staying out 299 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: lay doing a thing, yeah exactly, and we're saying about it. 300 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: We're just constantly throwing our hats up in the air, 301 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: like Mary Tyler Moore, just like going and overdrive. Um, 302 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: married working moms get about the same amount of not 303 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: enough sleep as single working women do. And you know, 304 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: stay at home moms, you guys don't have it much better. 305 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: Three quarters of these women experience symptoms of insomnia. And 306 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: why is that? Because we all have a lovely cocktail 307 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: of hormones in our bodies that are really the primary 308 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: culprit of all of this insomnia. It seemed like all 309 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: of the studies that we read regarding gender differences in 310 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: sleep patterns and insomnia from adolescents through old age, it 311 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: is constantly menstruation, menopause, pregnancy, and hormones that are the 312 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: common thread. Yeah, that's right. Amy Wolfson, who's the author 313 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: of The Woman's Book of Sleep, a Complete Resource Guide, 314 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: said that more than seventy of women complain about sleep 315 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: problems during menstruation, when hormone levels are at their lowest. 316 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: So imagine that stadium full of pen and waving hormones, 317 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: just like clearing out of the stadium and suddenly you 318 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: can't sleep. Yeah. Um, if you're listening to this and 319 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: you're like, huh, you know what I seem to not 320 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: be able to sleep when I'm experiencing p MS. Well, 321 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 1: it's probably because pre menstrual insomnia and pre menstrual hypersomnia 322 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: are just two of the menstrual related sleep disorders that 323 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: are among those eight known sleep disorders. So there is 324 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: a very strong link between our menstrual cycles and how 325 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: well we sleep. Yeah. In fact, research even says that 326 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: menstruating women report bloating that is significant enough to disturb 327 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: their sleep at least two or three days during each 328 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: menstrual cycle. And I am interested in hearing from people 329 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: who may have experienced this because while I do certainly 330 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: out every month, I mean, that's no big deal. I've 331 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: never actually experienced it so badly that it's interfered with 332 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,719 Speaker 1: my sleep. So what's happening on a hormonal level is 333 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: that during the luteal phase, which is after ovulation, our 334 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: levels of progesterone rises and actually chills out our sleep 335 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: patterns a little bit. Progesterone is more strongly related with 336 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: good sleep, So hooray progesterone. But then a few days 337 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: before your period starts, when both progesterone and estrogen levels drop, 338 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: you have a spike in insomnia, and then during the 339 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: follicular phase, which is menstruation to ovulation, you have energy 340 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: supplementing estrogen building up until ovulation, which is also when 341 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: you see levels in insomnia rise. So we have like 342 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: a brief window during our menstrual cycles. What is that 343 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: right after ovulation and progesterones? Like, hey, friends, here a 344 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: few nights over risk. Progesterone comes along, sprinkling fairy dust 345 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: on your eyes, and then estrogen bust into the bedroom. 346 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Is like, oh yeah, well, so so does birth control? 347 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: I mean, do different types of birth control then affect insomnia? 348 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: We did not look into that, Caroline. But I just want, 349 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: I mean I want it. Must it must? I I 350 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: feel like And this could be mental, this could be 351 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: a total coincidence. But when I switched from the pill 352 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: to an I u D, I feel like I experience 353 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: more intense insomnia. I'm on a hormonal iu D, So 354 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: I I don't know. Maybe maybe someone out there can 355 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 1: tell us. I would only imagine that if you are 356 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: on some kind of hormonal birth control, that it must 357 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: influence pously because progesterone and estrogen are so commonly linked 358 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, well so, But speaking of not being 359 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: on birth control. During pregnancy, especially in women's third trimester 360 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: and after childbirth, women experience these profound fluctuations in their 361 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: steroid related hormones and those hormones that are involved in 362 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: the whole hypothalamic, pituitary adrenal grouping of hormones that produce 363 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: significant physiological changes. Yeah, and apparently during the third trimester, 364 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: not only are you having some hormonal fluctuations that contribute 365 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: to insomnia, but it's also the fact that your belly 366 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: is so large and you have to go to the 367 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: bathroom more often that will again wake you up. So 368 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: that sounds more like like a secondary insomnia that it's 369 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: caused by not a not a health problem, but a 370 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: body issue. A baby. It's caused by a growing baby. 371 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: Oh that's what it is, all right. Well, so once 372 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: you've crested that hill and you're coasting into menopause, of 373 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: course your sleep is also going to be disrupted then, 374 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: because why wouldn't it be, Because menopausal women experienced wonderful 375 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: things like hot flashes and night sweats, and this is 376 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: during this time you get things like a diminished production 377 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: of estrogen and particularly progesterone that affects your sleep. Yeah, 378 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: and in fact does not get better when it comes 379 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: to insomnia as we age. Right, and like we mentioned 380 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: earlier with the sleep apnea stuff, menopause is when women 381 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: really catch up to men in terms of experiencing that 382 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: really bad health issue that doctor. You should definitely go 383 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: to a doctor and get checked out. But yeah, so 384 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: you're experiencing night sweats and hot flashes and you probably 385 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: are developing the sleep apnea. And I mean, man, your 386 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: body is just throwing you for a loop. Thanks a lot, body, 387 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: And well, speaking of a time when your body kind 388 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: of throws you for a loop. If you're wondering when 389 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: this gender gap in insomnia really starts to widen, it 390 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: is during puberty. This is from study in pediatrics that 391 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: came out in two thousand six looking at gender difference 392 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: is in insomnia among adolescents, and it found that when 393 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: girls started getting their periods, they became two and a 394 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: half times likelier than boys to have insomnia. So yet again, 395 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: we have hormones and specifically progesterone, estrogen, et cetera being 396 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: strongly related to our sleep or lack thereof. Yeah, so 397 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: leading up to puberty, there's really no huge, significant gap 398 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: between boys and girls in terms of having insomnia, but 399 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: that onset of a girl's period is associated with a 400 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: two point seven fivefold increased risk for insomnia. Now, one 401 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: other gender gap that also emerges during puberty that we 402 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: talked about before on the podcast is how among girls 403 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: rates of depression and anxiety also increased. So one thing 404 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: that these researchers looked at was whether or not it 405 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: was puberty related on set of depression that might have 406 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: been fostering cycles of insomnia, and it and another study 407 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: that we looked at examining adult female insomniacs, both concluded 408 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: that it is not specifically the depression and anxiety that 409 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: are to blame for these higher rates of insomnia. Again, 410 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: it always goes back to those hormonal factors. So all 411 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: of us to say, the research that we found states 412 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: that it is not depression and other kinds of psychiatric 413 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: issues that are causing insomnia. They're sort of they're interrelated, 414 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: but they aren't codependent. Yeah. One doesn't necessarily have to 415 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: depend on the other one happen. Yeah, Well, I mean, 416 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: we were just talking about menopause. So if we're if 417 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: we're looking, if we're continuing to look at age groups 418 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: and insomnia. UH. The American Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry in 419 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: eleven looked at about three thousand each of men and 420 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: women sixty five and older, and they performed a meta 421 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: analysis and found that elderly women were at the highest 422 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: risk of insomnia. So, like christ and said, it just 423 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: darnwell never gets better. They found that more than seventy 424 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: of men and women reported at least one symptom of insomnia, 425 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: with difficulty maintaining sleep being the main one. So they 426 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: looked at things like difficulty falling asleep versus difficulty maintaining sleep, 427 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: and so they found that women more frequently reported two 428 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: or three insomnia symptoms, whereas men more often reported just one. 429 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: But some of the protective factors against insomnia that these 430 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: researchers highlighted for women in this study at least included 431 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: a Mediterranean diet, so guzzled that olive oil, drink it 432 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: up um, also caffeine and alcohol. What, yeah, I don't. Yeah, 433 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: I wondered about that, because that is something that is 434 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: pre against I know in every other well, I mean, 435 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess in moderation, but I don't, I 436 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I don't know, maybe these women 437 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: were really enjoying a Mediterranean diet that included a lot 438 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: of red wine. Well, and you know what, when I'm 439 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: post menopausal, I will I don't have my coffee and 440 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: wine if I want it. But yeah. They also cited 441 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: hormonal replacement therapy as another protective factor, which they also 442 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: noted was a bit of a controversial suggestion because not 443 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: everybody is a fan of hormone replacement therapy, but it 444 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: makes sense because of yet again, those hormonal connections to insomnia. 445 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: Because this was the one thing that I didn't find 446 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: in our research was like, Okay, well, scientists seem to 447 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: know that our menstrual cycles have a large influence on insomnia, 448 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: So is there any any kind of treatment for that, 449 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: any kind of way to Nope, I saw nothing. It 450 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: was basically just like, well, here here's the information. Uh, 451 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: take a lunasta. I don't know. Um. There was also, though, 452 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: there was another study looking at the intersection of gender 453 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: and economics when it comes to sleep, and there was 454 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: this is coming out of the Centers for Disease Control 455 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: and Prevention in two thousand twelve, and it found a 456 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: pretty strong correlation between income and quality of sleep. Yeah. 457 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: The study basically found that as family income increases, trouble 458 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: sleeping decreases, And that makes sense. I mean, they found 459 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: that more the more people who were below the poverty 460 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: line experienced more insomnia banded people who were away above it. 461 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: But at every family income level, women were still more 462 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: likely to have trouble sleeping. But we did glean one 463 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: geographical outlier when it comes to the gender gap in insomnia, 464 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: and this was coming from a meta analysis in the 465 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: journal Sleep in two thousand and six. Um when the 466 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: and in the premise for it was researchers being like, Okay, 467 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: all right, we hear all the time about how women 468 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: are you know, I have a harder time with insomnia, 469 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: but is that really true? Is just just sort of 470 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: a methodological trick? Are women just more likely to seek 471 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: treatment for it? Is it because women are more depressed? Well, 472 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: first of all, they concluded that okay, actually, yes, they 473 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: looked at twenty seven studies. Yes, women actually do have 474 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: legitimately a worse time with insomnia except in Japan. Yeah, 475 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: this is so interesting. The study authors think that the 476 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: lack of gender differences in insomnia, the fact that it's 477 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: pretty much even Stephen is based on the fact that 478 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: there's less variation in Japanese society's sociodemographic and psychological characteristics. 479 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: But see, that's curious to me because when it comes 480 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: to you, at least gender roles in Japan, from what 481 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: I've read and also heard from people living in Japan, um, 482 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: it's less progressive. It's more their generals are more traditional 483 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: than they would be in the West. Well, I think 484 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: I mean in my brain, not having like gone into 485 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: this very deeply, that kind of actually makes sense because 486 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: if people are very set in their roles and they're 487 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: comfortable with their roles, and nobody's trying to, like, you know, 488 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: cause a revolution or anything. I don't know, like a 489 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: feminist revolution or anything. Um, maybe people are just sleeping better. 490 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: If if things are very set in your society. And 491 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm of course I'm painting this all with a very 492 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: broad Carolyn, I think we've figured it out down with 493 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: feministinism ruining everyone's sleep. Please don't write me letters. You know, 494 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't believe that I'm writing you a letter right now, Caroline. 495 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm multitasking. God, You're cortex is going to need so 496 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: much rest tonight. I know, but I am curious. Then 497 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: if there are any listeners in Japan who can give 498 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: us some insights, please let us know, because this was 499 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: even something that the researchers couldn't explain in the study. 500 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: They were like, there's something about Japan, and they even 501 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: broaden it to just East Asia in general. So I 502 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: wonder what it is about sleep patterns there, because if 503 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: you look at the history of sleep, like in the West, 504 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: the way that we sleep has changed since the Industrial Revolution, 505 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: where we actually used to not just sleep in closer quarters, 506 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: but we also slept in shifts. For instance, like Ben 507 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Franklin would get up and go on these like night 508 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: walks in the middle. You know. You know what Ben 509 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Franklin would do. He would get up and take a 510 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: cold air bath. A cold air bath. He sitting naked 511 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: in his armchair reading. I'm picturing it. I'm picturing it too. 512 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: It was refreshing. Well, I don't have to be awfully chili. Yeah, Well, 513 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: we now need to talk about treatments for insomnia. Perhaps 514 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: the cold air bathel do you um when it comes 515 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: to acute insomnia, those brief windows of sleepless nights that 516 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: might happen. Treatment just might not be required, it'll probably 517 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: go away on its own, yeah, exactly. For the chronic 518 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: insomniacs out there, however, you might want to seek treatment, 519 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: and that could include treating underlying causes of insomnia. For instance, um, 520 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, I was like not sleeping 521 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: at all, I was really stressed out, and my doctor 522 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: prescribed me ambient, when really I probably should have been 523 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: going to a therapist in dealing with my incredible levels 524 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: of anxiety, because once you treat that anxiety, that tends 525 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: to chip away at insomnia. Yeah. And speaking of therapy, 526 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: they're all sorts of behavioral therapies developed for helping sleep 527 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: and caring insomnia, as such as relaxation exercises, something called 528 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: sleep restriction therapy, which is on the more extreme end 529 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: of these behavioral therapies where if you say I can't 530 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: ever fall asleep until like four in the morning, then 531 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: according to sleep restriction therapy, you would make yourself stay awake, 532 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: not get in bed until four in the morning, and 533 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,479 Speaker 1: make yourself sleep through the night. And so it would 534 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: basically be like training your brain to say, oh, well, 535 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: I got in bed and then I fell asleep. Yes, 536 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: it was four in the morning and then you gradually 537 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: like step it back and back and back. I've done that, well, 538 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: not four in the morning, not that extreme, but I 539 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: found myself, like, I think, get really sleepy kind of 540 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: early in the night, at like nine o'clock. Um, but 541 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: I knew that I was never going to fall asleep 542 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: and actually go to bed until around midnight. But it 543 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: fostered so much anxiety, especially on like a Sunday night, 544 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: you know, when you know you have to go back 545 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: to work the next day or whatever. And so one 546 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: Sunday night, instead of getting into bed early like I 547 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: had wanted to do and I had tried to do, 548 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: I just stayed on the couch and read until about 549 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: honestly about eleven eleven thirty and got in bed then. 550 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: And it was hunky dory. So that was sort of 551 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: reverse sleep training because you were wanting to go to 552 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: sleep too early rather than not being able to. Yeah, 553 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: like I was sleepy and I wanted to get in bed, 554 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: but I knew that if I did, based on previous 555 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: nights and not sleeping well, I knew that if I did, 556 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: I would just lie there and sweat, right, just sweat 557 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: the bed. I swept the bed um. But also, like 558 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, we we've mentioned um sleep at me a 559 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: lot in this podcast episode. You might want to look 560 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: into going to a sleep clinic and getting a sea 561 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: Pat machine. I have a friend who got a sea 562 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: Pat machine and he sleeps like a baby. Now, my 563 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: mother was prescribed a sea Pat machine, but she refuses 564 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: to use it because she's too proud. What does a 565 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: c PAP machine look like? It's it's a big old 566 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: robot looking thing. Like you don't want it. You don't 567 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: want to have sleep at me and you don't want 568 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: to have to use a sea Pat machine, but it 569 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: can be life changing for people who use it. It 570 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: involved um putting like a mask over your mouth the nose, 571 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: and it's pumping air. Someone else can explain this way 572 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: better than I can, but it's it's uh not a 573 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: small machine. Well, something that is small but a lot 574 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: of people do take in the bedroom is sleeping pills. Sleep. 575 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: The market for sleeping pills has I don't want to 576 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: say exploded because that's the sensational term, but it's kind 577 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: of exploded. Yeah, we're taking more sleeping pills than ever before. Yeah, 578 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: so if you look back, this is coming from the 579 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: new Yorker and article they did on sleeping pills back 580 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: all the way back, but in nine you have del Maine, 581 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: which was the first benzo diazepine explicitly approved by the 582 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: f d A as a sleeping pill. Fast forward all 583 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: the way to two thousand six, and prescriptions of sleeping 584 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: pills hit forty nine million. Ambience Manufacturer estimated that that 585 00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: pill in particular had been taken twelve billion times worldwide. Now, 586 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: the number of pizzas that have been sleep eaten on 587 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: a still unknown, and according to data from the CDC 588 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: as of two thousand thirteen, around four percent of Americans 589 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: we're using prescriptions sleep aids and are used more commonly 590 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: surprise among women and older adults. But the trouble with 591 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: these sleeping pills is that they might not actually be 592 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: improving the quality of sleep that you get. There was 593 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: one study that was cited in the New York Times 594 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: talking about how and I don't have the exact figures 595 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: in front of me, but it was something along the 596 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: lines of taking a sleeping pill and it helped the 597 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: people fall asleep less than fifteen minutes faster than the 598 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: people who didn't take that. And then it's the question 599 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: of well, what kind of sleep are you actually getting 600 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: when you pop an ambient or ALMST or something like that, 601 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: because you might not be getting as deep of asleep 602 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: as you would otherwise. Right, Well, the whole thing with 603 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: ambient and I am someone who takes Ambien now and again, 604 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: it's not so much that it's knocking you out cold 605 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: for the whole night, especially if you're taking a really 606 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: low dose like I do, because that's more of the 607 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: placebo effect, let's be honest. But the thing with Ambien 608 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: and other pills like it is that it gives you 609 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: temporary amnesia. So when you wake up during the middle 610 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: of the night, Let's say you roll over and you 611 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: can't go back to sleep, and you're panicked about it, 612 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: and you wake up the next day and you're like, God, 613 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: I just know I slept terribly and um, so I'm 614 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: today is going to be awful. With Ambien, you forget 615 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: that you ever rolled over, or you forget that you 616 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: had that moment of like waking up and looking out 617 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: the window or something crazy, or you know, getting up 618 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: and eating a pizza. It just kind of gives you 619 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: the impression when you wake up the next day that oh, 620 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: I slept okay, and today is going to be great. 621 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: So it's sort of some mind trickery going on, total 622 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: mind trickery. And and in that New Yorker piece, they 623 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: were talking about drug reps who were working on medication 624 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: that would be more like keep you more consistently asleep 625 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: throughout the nights, so not just be that sudden, sudden 626 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: onset of sleep and then you sort of toss and 627 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: turning just don't remember it. They're trying to work on 628 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: pills that actually keep you asleep, but there's all these 629 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: questions of safety, and so we'll see, well, and then 630 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,919 Speaker 1: there's a whole factor of lifestyle issues related to how 631 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: we sleep. I mean, clearly when it comes to sleep 632 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: on the hormonal level and insomnia and all of that. Um, 633 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: I don't think that you know, don't look at your 634 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: cell phone an hour before you go to bed is 635 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: really going to cut it. But there are so many 636 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: different behavioral tips and tricks that are endlessly cycled and 637 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: recycled on the internet that I don't think we even 638 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: need to go through on the podcast. They're so common, 639 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: such as, you know, limit your screen time, make your 640 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: bedroom cool, only use your bed for sleep, or sex, etcetera, etcetera. Right, 641 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: and there's some good behavioral suggest sense that I hadn't 642 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,479 Speaker 1: really thought about. I mean, this seems like it's common 643 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: since now, of course, And it's just exposing yourself to 644 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: sunlight as soon as you can to sort of tell 645 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: your body and your brain and all those pesky hormones 646 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 1: that it's time to get up. They even suggest getting 647 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: in an early morning walk with a friend as because 648 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: you're combining social stuff, so you're using your brain to 649 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: interact with your friend and then getting sunlight and exercise. 650 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: And to me, I just, um, I'd rather be asleep. 651 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: I socialized with NPR in the morning. I do too, 652 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: sometimes I answer them. But the there was a question, though, 653 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,919 Speaker 1: posited in the New York Times article that we've been 654 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,919 Speaker 1: siding throughout the podcast as to whether we are now 655 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: just fighting our ancestor's way of sleeping, which was, you know, 656 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: Ben Franklin and his cold air baths, of sleeping in 657 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 1: these four hour blocks and then waking up in the night, 658 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: doing a few things and going back to sleep. Maybe 659 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: we are, you know, forcing ourselves into unnatural sleep patterns. Yeah, 660 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: I mean it's definitely a cultural, global idea that you 661 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: get in your PJS and you brush your teeth and 662 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: you go to sleep for exactly eight hours and then 663 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 1: you get up and you go be a very good 664 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: citizen out in the world and work and and behave 665 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: yourself and all that good stuff. But yeah, maybe we 666 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: are just completely fighting nature, because it's not as if, 667 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, these ancestors who were getting up in the 668 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: middle of the night, they'd sleep for hours, get up, 669 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: do whatever, go back to sleep. It's not like they 670 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: had it so so great. You know, we have all 671 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: these temper pedic mattresses and these pitch black rooms and 672 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: don't don't use any blue light. Oh god. But I 673 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: mean they were sleeping, you know, thirty five people to 674 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: a bed. They had like mice and who knows what 675 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: mice and life. So let's bring back the mice. Let's 676 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: get the thirty five people bed. If we can just 677 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: go back to the dark ages. But one thing that 678 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: hasn't changed though through all of this is the menstruals. Like, yeah, 679 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 1: it seems like I wonder if no matter what, if 680 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, all other factors controlled for if it's still 681 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: like regardless, if women would have still have trouble with 682 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: insomnia more than men because of our periods. Yeah, all 683 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: those hormones fled out of the stadium being like peace out, 684 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: see you later, See you went back when you can 685 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: sleep again. I hope this was illuminating, though for not 686 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: not too illuminating. They want people to be able to 687 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: sleep calmly. I hope this shed a calm dim light 688 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: for women in particular who do have trouble sleeping. And 689 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. What's been your experience 690 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: with insomnia and have you successfully overcome it and how 691 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: did you do that to let us know so we 692 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: can share your insights with everybody else. Moms Stuff at 693 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is our email address. You 694 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages 695 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of message is 696 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. Well, I've got a 697 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: Facebook message here from Caitlin in response to our Explorer 698 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: series episode on Seafaring Women, and she writes, Ladies, I 699 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: am a marine scientist and literally whoped for joy when 700 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: I saw your Seafaring Women podcast title. The timing is 701 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: especially appropriate as I just returned from a research expedition 702 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: at sea. I work in a deep sea research Lab, 703 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: and part of my job entails going out to sea 704 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 1: to collect samples and study sites that can exist thousands 705 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: of meters deep. When I tell friends and family that 706 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm heading to see the general consensus is that I'm 707 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: sitting on deck sipping mohitos while waiting my turn to 708 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: play shuffle board. Many folks have a hard time understanding 709 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: why in the world I would even want to be 710 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: stranded on a ship for multiple weeks at a time. 711 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: It's true, even in this day and age, ship life 712 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: can be challenging. No phone service, intimate internet, absolutely no Netflix. 713 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: It's enough to send even the most adventurous person crazy 714 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: after a while. I, however, embrace the isolation for one 715 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 1: with no phone to serve as a distraction. People actually 716 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,479 Speaker 1: converse at meals. I've developed long lasting friendships with people 717 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: I have sailed with because we were forced to look 718 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: at each other in the eye and communicate without the 719 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: assistance of emails, text and Facebook messages. Also, there's something 720 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: absolutely breathtaking about looking around you in all directions and 721 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: seeing no indication of human life. Some of the best 722 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: star gazing I've ever done has been on a ship, 723 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: and a huge incentive from the science perspective is that 724 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: when I'm at sea, I'm privy to something that not 725 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: many people have the opportunity to see, the deep sea. 726 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: I've traveled a couple thousand feet deep in a submersible 727 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: to a site that was little explored, and I can't 728 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: even begin to describe what it feels like to know 729 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: that you're seeing something that no one has ever seen before. 730 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: It's surreal and it sounds surreal. She goes on to 731 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,959 Speaker 1: talk about how Rachel Carson and Sylvia Earle her Deep 732 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: Us have been long standing heroines of mine, and when 733 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to meet Sylvia Earle, it took 734 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: me thirty minutes to work up the nerve to talk 735 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: to her, and she is amazing. As just a few 736 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,959 Speaker 1: resources if you're interested, I did outreach for a deep 737 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: sea research cruise, so you guys can read about life 738 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: at sea at Acid Horizon dot tumbler dot com. And 739 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: for those of your listeners who are interested in exploring 740 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: the deep sea from the comfort of their homes, check 741 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: out nautilus Live dot org. They have a live feed 742 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 1: running from their ship and viewers can watch and listen 743 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,720 Speaker 1: to the scientists explore the sea floor. That is so cool, Caitlin, 744 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: and thank you so much for writing in. And I 745 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,839 Speaker 1: have a letter here from Whitney, who was a woman 746 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: after my own heart. She wrote us to share a 747 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: story about her family history, particularly one woman named Penelope Um. 748 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: She says the story is not exactly related to exploring, 749 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: but to female perseverance in the settlement of North America. 750 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: She says, I had remembered vague details about Penelope and 751 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: Prince Stout as a child, but recently found a family 752 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: history book that went into much more detail. Around sixte 753 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: Penelope and her first husband set sail from Holland for 754 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: New Amsterdam. Unfortunately, the ship they were on somehow sunk 755 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: just off the coast of Sandy Hook, but most of 756 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: the party made it to shore. Once on land, the 757 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: party was attacked by Native Americans in the area, killing 758 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: Penelope's husband. Penelope suffered major stomach wounds and hid in 759 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: the hollow of a tree until another group of Native 760 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: Americans founder. She lived in the natives village and was 761 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,720 Speaker 1: nursed back to health by them. Sometime later, she married 762 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: Richard Stout and they moved to New Jersey in sixteen 763 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 1: sixty five, However, partship was not over for Penelope. She 764 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: had become close to the native tribe that saved her life, 765 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: and when they heard of a planned attack on her settlement, 766 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: they came to warner. Her husband, Richard, either didn't believe 767 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,879 Speaker 1: her warnings about an attack or chose to stay in fight. 768 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 1: As we can tell from her previous experiences, Penelope was 769 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: not one to give up. Despite having one bum arm, 770 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: she took her ten children in a canoe to safety 771 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: without shared. When I learned the story of Penelope, I 772 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: felt honored to be distantly related to her. She was 773 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: an explorer in her own right, living in a new 774 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: land at a time when women were not allowed to 775 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: be strong willed. I sincerely hope I inherited some of 776 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: those traits, along with her good genes that she lived 777 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: to be a hundred and ten years old. Whitney, that 778 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: is so cool. Thank you so much for sharing your 779 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: history story, and thanks to everybody who share their stories 780 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: with us. Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com 781 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of 782 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blog post, 783 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: videos and podcasts which include our sources so you can 784 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: follow along. There's one place to go, and it's stuff 785 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: Mom never told you. Dot com for more on this 786 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because at how stuff works. 787 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: Dot Com