1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but the number one thing 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: that keeps me up at night these days is the 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: fragile state of democracy in our country. Over the past years, 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: we've lived through some alarming assaults that have been decades 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: in the making. You know, I saw unnerving signs that 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: there were those who wanted to undermine our institutions, destroy 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: the rule of law, rig and take over our elections, 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: and not make it possible for a lot of people 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: to fully participate. I saw all of that as a 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: first lady, as senator, a presidential candidate, a Secretary of State. 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: And yet even with all of that, I am surprised 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: at how far these efforts have come. I may not 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: hold public off us anymore, but I remain as committed 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: as ever to doing everything I can to protect and 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: preserve our democracy. And over the course of this season 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: of You and Me Both, We're going to take a 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: hard look from various advantage points about the state of 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: our democracy. I'll be talking to experts and leaders and 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: advocates who are doing incredible work on the front lines 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: today to kick us off. We're looking at how our 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: democracy is doing at the state and local level, which 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: sad to say, is not so great. Now, later, we're 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: going to hear from a phenomenal young elected public servant 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: out of Texas, Harris County Judge Lena Hidalgo. But first 27 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking to Ohio based political strategist David Pepper. David 28 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: is someone I've known and admired for quite some time. 29 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: Back in his home state of Ohio. He has served 30 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: on the Cincinnati City Council and as chairman of the 31 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: Ohio Democratic Party. David's the author of a new book 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: called Laboratories of Autocracy, and he explains in the book 33 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: about all the ways that a state and its powers 34 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: can impact on our lives. He's got an incredible grasp 35 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: of what's happening not only in Ohio but more generally 36 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: at the state level, and he's got a way of 37 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: explaining it so that we can all understand. So that's 38 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: why I'm so excited to have him on this podcast. 39 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: The first question I had for David is what led 40 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: him to write this new book. What was he seeing 41 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: in his state of Ohio and beyond across our country. 42 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 1: I had no intention of writing a book at all 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: last year, but by out April, my level of alarm 44 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: about the state level attacks on democracy that most folks 45 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: don't see or the media doesn't cover got so heightened 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: that I started frantically writing this book to sound the alarm. 47 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: And the subtitle is a wake up call from behind 48 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: the lines. And that's literally why I wrote it, was 49 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: to say all those out there, you know, in different 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: parts of the country, you have to pay attention to 51 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: these state house attacks on democracy. They're relentless and they're effective, 52 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: and if we don't do something about them in almost 53 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: every way we think about politics, they will continue in 54 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: downward spiral. And even since I've written and it's gotten worse. 55 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: So I appreciate the chance to talk about today. Well, 56 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: the title of your book, Laboratories of Autocracy, is a 57 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: play on the wonderful phrase from Supreme Court Justice brandis 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: his idea that states are the laboratories of democracy. In 59 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: other words, you know, states could try different things, how 60 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: best to provide health care or educate kids, all kinds 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: of experimentation which then could be proven at the state level, 62 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: and other states could follow, and even the national federal 63 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: government could learn, and so the idea that you took 64 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: what was viewed as a very positive description of what 65 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: states could do laboratories of democracy, and turned it on 66 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: its head to be laboratories of autocracy, I think goes 67 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: right to the heart of the problem. Most people, David 68 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: don't know or realize how much power state legislatures, state 69 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: governments have, right and in justice, Brandeis was right. You know, 70 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: we've seen, whether it was the Affordable Care Act coming 71 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: out of state ideas, whether it was the battle to 72 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: create marriage equality, that was state level momentum. I turned 73 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: the title in its head because folks turned the role 74 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: of states on their head over the last forty years. 75 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: And you know this sound disrespectful. There are a lot 76 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: of good state reps working very hard, But the broader 77 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: point is that state houses basically have emerged as the 78 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: Achilles heel of American governance because of a mismatch huge 79 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: amounts of power. No one knows about it. That's not 80 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: good for democracy. The power is over almost every issue 81 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: we care about, politics, economics, social policy, climate change. But 82 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: then there's also the immense power over democracy itself. You know, 83 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: they set the rules of the elections for the most part, 84 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: although Congress cannons should do more to fight back on 85 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: those they draw the district lines, as Donald Trump figured 86 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: out too late, but it's the fact they control the 87 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: electoral college process in many ways. So huge power over 88 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: the substance of things we all care about, and then 89 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: the huge power over democracy itself. Almost no one knows. 90 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: But here's the bad news. Certain insiders figured it out, 91 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, for years decades ago. And if 92 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: certain insiders figured out a lot of money and the 93 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: average person doesn't, it, things get ugly real quick. And 94 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: that's sort of what the book walks through. Well, I 95 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: think it's such an important point, and I tried to 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: sound the alarm starting in the nineties that there really 97 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: was a well organized and extremely well funded effort to 98 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: take over state houses, state elected offices, state judicial systems, 99 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: local offices, and not just to wield power, but to 100 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: wield power for purposes that sadly read down to the 101 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: benefit of those on the right, corporate power, ideological power, 102 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: even in some cases religious power. And Donald Trump sort 103 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: of lit an even bigger fire under it. And so 104 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: now clearly it's on steroids. But let's start with Ohio, 105 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: because that's where you've been living and working most of 106 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: your adult life. I mean, one of the things I 107 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: was surprised about when I was running for president in 108 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: is how actively the Ohio government apparatus had purged voters. 109 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: Millions of Ohio voters who had voted in two thousand 110 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: and eight and two thousand and twelve, mostly for Barack Obama, 111 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: were wiped from the voting rules. And I did not 112 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: know that until you know, I got into it. Yeah, 113 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: there's a group of people who understand that their worldview 114 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: would not survive in a robust democracy. Trick O on 115 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: economics would not survive in a robust democracy. Too many 116 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: people are left out, attacking Roe v. Wade NonStop, the 117 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: crazy gun laws. None of that would survive in a 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: world of robust democracy. They know that. So while we're 119 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: fighting over elections, they're fighting democracy itself because only by 120 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: keeping it at bay can they get their worldview in place. 121 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: Long term. They need suppressed democracy. So decades ago they 122 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: understood that state houses are heart of democracy, and they 123 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: could weaponize state houses to both you know, get their 124 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: substant events done in undemocratic state houses as well as 125 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: you state houses to divert democracy Therefore they could get 126 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: a worldview that's a minority view. They would not survive 127 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: in a diverse majority, which we are today. And that's 128 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: that's really what they've been doing in Ohio. We are 129 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: the canary in the coal mine because, as you know, 130 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: we weren't just blue and oh eight for Obama. Ted 131 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: Strickland was the governor, our good friend. We had a 132 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: democratic state house. And what they showed over the next decade, 133 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: they were so furious that Obama turned Ohio blue and 134 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: O eight, not just because it was about the presidency. 135 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: What happened when he went into eight that Obama coalition 136 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: won us the state house. We had ten members out 137 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: of eighteen of Congress Democrats did after O eight. So 138 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: the Obama Coalition, more than just Obama was as massive threat. 139 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: And as we saw beginning and ten, they went to 140 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: town intentionally going after the coalition that they knew was 141 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: a threat long term, that represented the majority that would 142 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: otherwise never let them accomplish their substantive goals. So they 143 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: went after early vote because that was the way that 144 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: Obama coalition voted disproportionately. They went after young voters. But 145 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: the tool they used in Ohio that was so effective, 146 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: like Georgia was purging. And by the way, just to 147 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: be cleared to voters who may not know this, you 148 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: can update your voting rules quite simply based on who's 149 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: passed away and who's moved. The Post Office generates the 150 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: list of who's moved on a regular basis. Health departments 151 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: generate lists of who's passed away. That's not hard to do. 152 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: It's the twenty one century. In Ohio, they also were 153 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: purging people who vote infrequently. That's the net that has 154 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: caught up millions of voters, disproportionately Obama voters, your voters, 155 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Democratic voters, and as I walked through in the book 156 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: and your campaign, herculean effort to find those purge voters 157 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: in sixteen months of it. But even with the resources 158 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: and the capacity of your campaign, it's what everyone's focused on. 159 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: We all worked hard, and we worked together. I was 160 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: a chair then to get them all registered. We still 161 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: didn't come close to how many been purged. And by 162 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: the way, that also meant we weren't using resources to 163 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: talk to swing voters or registered voters because we were 164 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: doing everything we could to get those unregistereds back on, 165 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: so they end up forcing to burn everything at both ends, 166 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: and it has a massive impact. It's a devastating case 167 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: study that when they decide to target the electorate that's 168 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: defeating them, it works. So why did they fail in 169 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: twenty Well, one reason is this mechanism of voting drop 170 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: boxes that no one's ever cared about before. Drop boxes 171 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: are an anchorage Alaska, there in some laxity of Utah, 172 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: no one cared. But in twenty those drop boxes were 173 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: disproportionately used by voters of color. So now what are 174 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: they doing. They targeted the Obama coalition with early voted purging. 175 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: Now it's drop boxes. And this is why I reject 176 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: the notion we'll just out organize all this. Of course, 177 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: we need to organize as hard as we ever have, 178 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: but the response to voter suppression enacted by law must 179 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: also be government pushing back at the federal level to 180 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: just say to your volunteers or future volunteers, just go organize. 181 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: In some states that will work, But when it's close 182 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,119 Speaker 1: enough and the suppression is brutal enough, the greatest volunteer 183 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: effort in the world is not going to be enough 184 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: to overcome the kind of suppression we're talking about. So 185 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: the whole point of the book has to say, if 186 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: we don't start engaging at the state level, ending jerrymandering 187 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: when we can, but running in every district to at 188 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: least hold them accountable, that lack of accountability is how 189 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: everything else keeps going, and we're seeing that in painful 190 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: ways in states like Ohio. Well, I know our listeners 191 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: cannot see me nodding vigorously in agreement with you, David, 192 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: but it is heartbreaking to me on several counts. One 193 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: that we have this well organized, well funded effort to 194 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: upend democracy, to seize power, to promote what are truly unpopular, 195 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: less than majority points of view, and that the other 196 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: side is relentless. And I think it's important for people 197 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: to understand who's behind this. Where did this really all 198 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: come from? In your opinion, So it's a convergence of 199 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: several things. You know, a lot of it was driven 200 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: by dollars. The Koch Brothers a worldview ideology of trickling 201 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: on economics that they view any kind of stronger government 202 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: as a threat too, because it's gonna pass regulations or 203 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: enact tax policies that they view takes their dollars and 204 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: and it goes beyond them, It goes to a broader population. 205 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: They don't like the type of economics that you know, 206 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: President Clinton led and Democrats always lead on, which is 207 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: a middle class based economy. They knew that is taking 208 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: from them. That's a big part of it, and that's 209 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: what's funding. You know, I won't I don't go through 210 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: all the acronyms, but a like the American Legislative Exchange 211 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: Counsel they haired his foundation. The people funding that are 212 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 1: largely you know, people like the Koke Brothers, large corporations 213 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: that view any government interference with their quote unquote economic 214 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: liberty as a threat. But we also need to acknowledge 215 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: we have this very sad history of white backlash whenever 216 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: there's a diverse majority that arises in our country and 217 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: saying okay, we're gonna we're gonna run the show. It 218 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: happened after the reconstruction. You know, huge numbers of registered 219 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: black voters in the South, more black voters and write 220 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: voters in states like Louisiana. They were electing black mayors 221 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: and council members and state house speakers and even members 222 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: of Congress. Backlash was fierce, you know, allegations of voter fraud, violence, 223 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: and that backlash led to a century of Jim Crow. 224 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: We saw it, you know, after the Civil rights movement 225 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: and the laws of the sixties, all of a sudden, 226 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: the Southern strategy. We saw it after Obama. Winn Is 227 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: Isabel Wilkerson writes, Obama winning when many ways was this 228 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: shock to this world that doesn't want a diverse majority. 229 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: He symbolized it that Obama coas civilized it what happens 230 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven boom. They immediately pushed back. And obviously 231 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: the prospect that large numbers of African American voters in 232 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: Atlanta and Detroit, in Philadelphia elected Biden and Harris also 233 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: triggers is fierce backlash. So there's economics, but there's also 234 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: that very somber history. And again I wrote my book 235 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: frantically for several reasons. One is I have a five 236 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: and a seven year old, and I don't want them 237 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: spending the rest of their lives fighting for democracy that 238 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: we lost. Number Two, when I look at the history, 239 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: the lessons of what we have to do are so 240 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: clear from that history that I want to write it down. 241 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: I have people read it because I think if you 242 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: see the similarities to what led to not a decade 243 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: of Jim Crow but generations of Jim Crowe are so 244 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: stark that if that doesn't wake you up, I don't 245 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: know what will. We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 246 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: You know, when you concentrate on Ohio, which you know 247 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: is such an important state and every every way, but 248 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: particularly in elections, as you know so well, you really 249 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: bring it alive and shine a bright spotlight um on 250 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: what's happening in your state. And I guess I would 251 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: have to ask why are local politicians more invisible to 252 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: everyday voters than they once were? How much of that 253 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: is due to the fact that we don't have local 254 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: newspaper In most places, we have what are called, you know, 255 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: news deserts where there are no reporters covering city hall anymore. 256 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: It's a huge part of it. I always think about 257 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: it this way, what are the things that make the 258 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: Koch brothers happy, and let's figure out how to do 259 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: the opposite, okay? And what do they love? They love 260 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: that no one covers state houses. They love that local 261 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: papers are dying so that local state rep who everyone 262 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: used to know, people don't even know what that person 263 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: is doing. They love that. In Ohio, you know, a 264 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: third of the races, the average margin of victory for 265 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: a decade was or more so, no one even knew 266 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: an election was happening. So the point is, yes, what 267 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: you described is one of the key ways that there's 268 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: no awareness. State house bureaus are dying. Ohio, by the way, 269 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: we have a very strong one. There's still a city 270 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: hall reporter in Cincinnati, but a lot of cities, the 271 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: state house people are the first to go. It's further away, 272 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: it's a bigger expense they have to live up there. 273 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: And then the local papers just disappearing, not bigger cities, 274 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: but smaller. Like I said, that means that the coverage 275 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: of the individual officeholder from you know, Mansfield or from Manchester, 276 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: no coverage whatsoever. So that combination is bad. And I'll 277 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: just give a couple of other layers for this. You know. 278 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: One other aspect that's often overlooked is that that a 279 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: lot of the institutional knowledge of these papers is also 280 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: getting hollowed out. When you and I, you know, would 281 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: go to newspapers to get endorsements, you would have six 282 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: or seven members of an editorial board. Many of those 283 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: editorial boards are either gone or down to one person 284 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: just like you have. You know, these long term calumnists 285 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: that understand state houses, that know what a jerrymandered or 286 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: a crazy budget looks like, they're all gone. So not 287 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: only is the coverage of the facts much less intense 288 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: or hardly at all there, but the people can provide 289 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: a less heated analysis and Twitter or k Able who 290 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: could say right now which needs to be said, The 291 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: current attempt at jerrymander Ohio is absurd. And don't take 292 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: it from David Pepper, a Democrat, take it from us 293 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: at this paper. We've seen this for thirty years. This 294 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: is the worst we've ever seen. All that institutional knowledge 295 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: is also gone because they can't afford it. So if 296 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: the state house business in in Columbus gets no attention 297 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: and the elections essentially are predetermined, no one knows what's happening. 298 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: And here's the worst part, there's a double whammy to this. 299 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: We now have, because of jerrymandering, an entire generation of 300 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: both officeholders and citizens who essentially don't think of their 301 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: state house politics as a democracy. They've never really had 302 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: a choice over these things, and that's really damaging long 303 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: term I agree completely. Well, let's switch to the recommendations 304 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: that you make, because you end the book which is 305 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: so gripping and I highly recommend it to every one, 306 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: but you end with a bunch of strategies to get 307 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: our states back from being laboratories of autocracy to truly 308 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: laboratories of democracy, and you reframe the whole discussion that 309 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: we should be having at you know, national, state, local, 310 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: even individual levels. So why don't you run through some 311 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: of those, David? Sure? So let me just the way 312 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: I try and frame it is, you have one side 313 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: that has believed that democracy is intact us and we 314 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: generally focus on federal elections to get the substance outcomes 315 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: we want right, and that generally means we go to 316 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: swing states where we can get our federal majorities for president, 317 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: senate outs. The other side is not battling that battle. 318 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: They are in a very different battle. Their battle because 319 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: they know democracy is inconsistent with their worldview. Their battle 320 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: is against democracy itself. They fight their battle everywhere every year, 321 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: at all levels. And as my seven year old who 322 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: plays soccer would would even observe, if one side is 323 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: always on offense everywhere and you're playing in a few 324 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: stage in a few years. Who's gonna win. They're gonna win. 325 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: They are winning. Because of this, we have to change 326 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: our mindset. First and foremost, we gotta go to where 327 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: the battle really is, which is where they're taking it 328 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: democracy itself. That reframes everything, and I go through all 329 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: the specific ways everyone can take part, but big picture, 330 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean? First you adjust your mindset. This 331 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: is a long game battle. The best near term example 332 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams. She knew Georgia was a long struggle for democracy. 333 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: If she had simply given up every time Georgia was read, 334 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have a blue Georgia. Even when she didn't 335 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: quite win the eighteen governors election because of a very 336 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: tainted process by the opponent. Even that day where she 337 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: stood up and said I'm not going to be governor, 338 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: she said, we made progress. She has a long game mindset. 339 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: She knew every voter that voted in her record turnout, 340 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: every registered voter, every door knock was progress. Two years later, 341 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: it was right she was She knew that it was 342 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: a long game. So change the frame of everything, as 343 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: are you billing toward the long game or aren't you 344 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: measure your success. Accordingly, it also means get out of 345 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: only thing about swing states. If your competee for democracy, 346 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: no state should not have a democracy. It's guaranteed the 347 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: Constitution that everyone have a republican form of government. Make 348 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: that real. So we should reframe our political approach fighting 349 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: for democracy all over the country. And that also means 350 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: at all levels state House, state, Supreme Court seats, sector 351 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: of state. No longer let the Koke brothers be the 352 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: only people focused on these things. Let me put it 353 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: this way. We love to get excited about the most 354 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: exciting candidates. You think the Koke Brothers care about who's exciting. No, 355 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: if you are in a state rep spot and you win, 356 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: they love you because you're gonna do what they say. Well, 357 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: I love when we've excited candidates. We all get excited. 358 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: But when when it comes to putting our money into 359 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: races or volunteering, if someone is running for an important 360 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: seat that could affect democracy, and that could be school 361 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: board two as we now know, help them out. Don't 362 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: just wait for the greatest candidate you've ever seen. One 363 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: other thing I would say in the battle for democracy, 364 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: if all we do is focus on swing races in 365 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: certain states or any states. That's a short game mentality, 366 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: because we are thinking, well, the only thing we're gonna 367 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: measure ourselves on is if we win the five or 368 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: six swing seats in that state next year. Long game, 369 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: it's a disaster to leave thirty seats unchallenged in any 370 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: state else. That's thirty places where they never hear our message, 371 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: mainly in rural parts of these states. It's thirty places 372 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: where the incumbent never feels accountability, never feels challenged. We 373 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: have to recruit to run everywhere. We need to celebrate 374 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: someone running in a Jerrymander district as much as in 375 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: a swing district. They are walking to a race they 376 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: probably gonna lose. We should celebrate them for stepping up. 377 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: And again, when you think about it as a long game, 378 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: all of a sudden that makes per for sense. People 379 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: running in Ohio and every district every two years. That's powerful. 380 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: That's how you win the battle for democracy. That's the 381 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: best thing for Tim Ryan is if they're none in 382 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: the House districts. It's the best thing for Stacy Abrams 383 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: because they're carrying the message. There lifting turnout. If all 384 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: you care about is this federal game, and you don't 385 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: worry about democracy. You'll never support those non swing candidates, 386 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: you won't even recruit them. You know. I cannot help 387 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: but underscore that by saying, it's been one of my 388 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: real disappointments that democratic donors, democratic political consultants, democratic activists, 389 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: democratic voters are so focused on the immediate, the flashy, 390 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: who's the candidate of the moment, And we haven't had 391 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: people on our side of the political divide invest in media. 392 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: The other side certainly has, as we know very well, 393 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: they haven't invested in the kind of institutions that you mentioned, 394 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: like ALEC that has helped to put really regressive legislative 395 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: agendas through state legislatures across the country. They are so 396 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: candidate focused, and it's mostly a very narrow group of 397 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: candidates who attract their money and their attention. And it's 398 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: almost the opposite of playing the long games. I could 399 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: not agree with you more. Well, before we wrap up, 400 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: I have to ask you, how do we inspire young 401 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: people to actually get in that arena and run for 402 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: these offices and, as you rightly point out, run for 403 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: every one of them. Yeah, I mean, I think we 404 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: reframe it as the broader battle for democracy. We have 405 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: to say, these young people, don't let the last ten 406 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: years make you think that politics can't be about good 407 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: public service. You know, there's a reason why back in 408 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: the day a John Glenn wanted to be in politics 409 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: a noble pursuit. It's how you change the world for 410 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: the good. It was patriotic. And we're seeing right now 411 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: a whole army of people like Josh Mandel in Ohio 412 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: or Josh Holly running for the worst reasons. And so 413 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: I think we have to find people and say, not 414 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: long ago, this was where you went if you want 415 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: to make a difference, and and then frame at all 416 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: is a much broader battle for democracy than it currently 417 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: is seen. And we have to all do this with 418 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: funders and voices. We need to celebrate everyone who runs. 419 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: That itself is a victory for democracy. They just gave 420 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: people a choice that those rigging these elections didn't want 421 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: them to have. We need to come up with mechanisms 422 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: to say to every one of these people who runs, 423 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: we're not just gonna encourage you to run, We're gonna 424 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: lift you. We gotta take the billions that are spent 425 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: presidential races and smooth it out over four years over 426 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: the entire country. So we asked someone to run, and 427 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: we celebrate the patriotism and them running. We also back 428 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: it up with support, so it's got to be frame 429 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: it better. But once you're in, we're still there. And 430 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: if you lose, which many will lose in Drayman District, 431 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: we don't walk away, but Democrats walk away from people 432 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: who lose, and it's terrible. Some of my favorite, some 433 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: of my favorite people in Ohio that I keep up 434 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: with all the time, we're veterans or people who were 435 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: the first in their family go to college, who ran 436 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: an impossible districts. Because of their runs, they actually lifted 437 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: other people to victory, to state House or somewhere else. 438 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: We need to say to them that victory is partly 439 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: because of you, and we're gonna keep going with you 440 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: because you did something that was really tough. In a 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: long game, every election, even if you lose, if you 442 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: do it right, is additive to the next election. More 443 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: voters voted, more voters registered, and we have to surround 444 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: all these candidates with that kind of thinking versus thanks 445 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: for running. You're not in a swing district, so you 446 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: don't get support, and after you lose. It's like you 447 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: never ran. That's a guaranteed long term failure. We have 448 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: to change all that, and I think then will get 449 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: a lot more people interested. I agree with that a percent. 450 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: David Pepper, I am so happy to talk with you today, 451 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful that you are out there in 452 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: the arena every day with your speaking and your writing 453 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: and your advocacy and everything you've been doing, not only 454 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: in Ohio but around U the world. Thank you very much. 455 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Just was an honor to speak with you. David Pepper's 456 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: book is called Laboratories of Autocracy, and you can follow 457 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: him on Twitter for regular updates from the front lines 458 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: of this crucial battle for our country's future. Well, that 459 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: conversation is the perfect setup for me to introduce you 460 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: to someone whom I really like and admire. Her name 461 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: is Lena Hidalgo. She lives in Texas, and in ten 462 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: at the ripe age of twenty seven, she ran four 463 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: and was elected Harris County Judge. Now Harris County is 464 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: where Houston is one of the biggest of all cities 465 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: in our country, and Lena beat a three time incumbent, 466 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: becoming the first woman and first Latina to hold that office. 467 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: Since then, she's demonstrated time and again that voters made 468 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: the right choice in Lena was featured on the Forbes 469 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: thirty Under thirty list for her achievements in setting fairer 470 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: tax rates and implementing disaster relief initiatives, and in one 471 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: she won a John F. Kennedy New Frontiers Award for 472 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: all of her initiatives around COVID relief. I was so 473 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: delighted to be speaking with her about her life and 474 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: her service and what she's seeing on the ground in 475 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: the battleground state of Texas. I want to start on 476 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: a really basic level, Lena, asking you what is a 477 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: county judge? What does it do in Texas? I think 478 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: people understand what a mayor is or even a governor, 479 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: But county judge, especially for such a big county like 480 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: Harris County, is a new term for some of our listeners. Absolutely, 481 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of a misnomer. You hear judge and you 482 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: think you know a judicial role deciding on the outcomes 483 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: of court cases. That is not this rule. The county 484 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: judge in Texas is the county executive, and so I 485 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: am the county executive for Harris County, which is the 486 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: third largest county in the country. It is larger than 487 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: twenty six states about the population of Colorado. So we've 488 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: got we've got four point seven million people home to Houston, 489 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: that's our largest city, and thirty three smaller cities. And 490 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: I helped manage the budget about a five billion dollar budget, roads, bridges, 491 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: flood control, libraries or jail, our justice system, um parks, 492 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: you name it. But there's also a whole lot of 493 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: good that can be done on top of that with 494 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: that budget. So that's part of what I've been focused on. UM. 495 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: But so it's it's me and and four commissioners. We 496 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: formed the board that controls the budget for this huge county. Well, 497 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: I want to go back a little bit and learn 498 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: more about you. You were born in Bogata, Columbia, uh in, 499 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: which is to say, you are thirty years old and 500 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: came to the United States with your family in two 501 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: thousand five, and byen you were running for high office. 502 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: Now give us a little bit of journey that you 503 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: made to get to where you are today. I will 504 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: in Secretary, I'll spoil the ending, which is you have 505 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: a lot to do with it, you know, So I 506 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: was born in Columbia during the drug war, and it 507 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: was kidnappings and ball blocked from our house. Of course, 508 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: my parents wanted to keep us safe. My dad got 509 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: a job in Peru and that was about the time 510 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: that Fujimori was president. He was later indicted, convicted for 511 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: corruption and other other charges. So then when we moved 512 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,239 Speaker 1: to Mexico as well, a period of a lot of 513 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: political upheaval, corruption, et cetera. By the time we moved 514 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: to Texas, government was the last thing I wanted anything 515 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: to do with. I was just cynical about it. Um 516 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: and my parents sent me to public school, the one 517 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: that was assigned to our area. And I was just 518 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: horrified because before I had watched them sort of make 519 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: such an effort to keep me in private schools in 520 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: Latin America, I could tell that was like the one 521 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: thing that if we sacrificed everything else, they wanted to 522 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: make sure I went to private school. Well, I show 523 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: up to public school here and it was an incredible school, 524 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: Tennis courts, film room, newspaper dissecting pigs, and biology class. 525 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: And so I began to ask as an aside, obviously, 526 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: not all public schools are are that fantastic? But look, 527 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: just the possibility is something that I could not contemplate 528 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: back then. So I began tast what is it that 529 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: makes government work, that makes it accountable, makes it deliver? 530 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: And I studied that at Stanford. I went to work 531 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: on on promoting good government free expression abroad, and um, 532 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: I thought I'd work sort of outside the system, beating 533 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: it into shape as an activist, as a civil rights attorney. 534 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: And then the election happened. I was in the middle 535 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: of grad school. I was at n y U and Harvard, 536 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: at the Kennedy School, and your incredible strength, your incredible 537 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: dignity power, and my seeing if someone like Donald Trump 538 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: can win and can run, why can't I? And it 539 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: felt more dire than ever. So I'm one of thousands 540 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: of women that you inspired to say, you know what, 541 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to see this through. I run unopposed secretary 542 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: because people were so scared of the status quo here 543 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: deep in the heart of Texas, and nobody thought we 544 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: could win, and we won. And since then we have 545 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: changed so much. And so what I want to I 546 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: hope I can convey to day to folks is change 547 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: has happened in Texas. Change can happen in Texas, and 548 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: it is so happening that they're coming at us with 549 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: relentless attacks and cruelty. But it's because of our success 550 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: and we are undaunted. I love that, you know, because 551 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: that is exactly what I have watched from afar from 552 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: the time that you got elected. Um. You were, by 553 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: the way, a run for something candidate, a group that 554 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: I have supported through my umbrella group. Onward together. What 555 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: did you learn about yourself when you started running for 556 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: county judge? In just the resiliency that that we all have. 557 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: You know, I can't tell you how many meetings I 558 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: had where people looked at me and and I'm sitting 559 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: here in front of you. I'd like to pretend them 560 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: five too, but really I'm five one and three quarters 561 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: and um, and so you know, people would just kind 562 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: of look me up and down and said, you you know, 563 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: you want to be the executive of this county? Had 564 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: always been a man, of course, needless to say, yeah, 565 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: there never been a woman, and never anyone Latina or Latino. 566 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: And the five member board there had only ever been 567 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: one woman elected um for one of the commissioners seats. Now, 568 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: these these county leadership seats are ones that don't normally 569 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: switch hands in competitive elections. Historically it's been when he 570 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: dies or is convicted of a crime, or retires and 571 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: appoints a pal and so. Um. It was a lot 572 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: of that's very cute, sort of bless her heart, you know. 573 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: But there were groups like Run for Something and others 574 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: who said, you know, we need to support this change, 575 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of people were behind us. And I 576 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: learned that that is how change is achieved. You can 577 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: never be sure. You can do everything right and still lose. 578 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: You can do everything wrong and still win. But for 579 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: many people as beyond their wildest dreams that this could 580 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: be done, and it was so worth it just just 581 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: because of the policies we've implemented. Well, you've emphasized transparent, 582 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: accountable government. Um, and you've made such a difference already. 583 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: You had the first ever open transition process, you had 584 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: seven town hall meetings, you did a survey of your constituents. 585 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: You've ensured that these commissioners meet where actual community members 586 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: are attending. I mean, you've really adept the process and 587 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: I think that's made a difference, don't you. Absolutely Before 588 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: we got here, these billions of dollars, right, five billion 589 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: dollars annually were distributed in meetings that lasted forty five 590 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: minutes every two weeks um. The budget process was whatever 591 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: we gave them last year, plus two person for inflation. 592 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: Most notably, and and many folks may not know this, 593 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: it's very common in the states where laws against this 594 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: don't exist, for local elected officials to fund their campaigns 595 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: with contributions from the contractors that do business with their locality. 596 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: So that's not just Harris County or just Texas as 597 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: cities and county governments. So just imagine, right, we built 598 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: these roads, these bridges, these buildings. It's enormously expensive projects 599 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: millions and sometimes billions, and then you see the cow 600 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: First there was just an expose in the Houston Chronicle 601 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: where seventy plus percent of the contributions come from these contractors. 602 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: So it was so funny because you know, when I 603 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: was running, I needed fundraising help, and groups like Run 604 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: for Something and others. Of course, the community helped us 605 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: raise the funds we needed, but the sort of lead 606 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: fundraisers in town, they wouldn't give me the time of day. 607 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: Right when we won, I won't name names, but there 608 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: was one in particular, you know, and and the and 609 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: this person said, okay, I'll do the fundraising for you now. 610 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: And I said, well, the thing is, I feel uncomfortable 611 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: taking contributions from people who do business with Harris County 612 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: or who want to do business with Harris County. And 613 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: then this person said, never mind. And I haven't talked 614 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: to them since. And but you know what, we've shown 615 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: that it can be done. And then you know, to 616 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: your point about just the policy making, it's co governance. 617 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: So as we said policy be at homelessness, be at 618 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: disaster recovery, be at veterans, we invite community members to 619 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: design the actual program to the decision making table. And 620 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: sometimes it means we say look for X, Y Z. 621 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: Reason that doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now, 622 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: it's not as important in the priority list. So it's 623 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: an honest conversation. But I've found there are great ideas 624 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: we would have never come up with. I love hearing 625 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: that because I think you've figured out a way to 626 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: get people involved at every stage of the process. But 627 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: I also think that your success, both your success being 628 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: elected and your success in governing, is one of the 629 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: many reasons why the Texas state government is trying to 630 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: restrict voters access to the polls, trying to make it 631 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: harder to vote. What are you seeing happening on that front. Well, 632 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: they're scared, you know, they're scared, and we've made change 633 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: and it's good change. The largest environmental investment in thirty years, 634 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: reducing a homeless population by a thousand in the middle 635 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: of this pandemic, so and so forth. One of the 636 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: things we did, and folks might remember this in the 637 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: elections UM, it was Hair County that was in the 638 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: news about twenty four hour voting and drive through voting, 639 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: an incredible turn Now we're having friendly competition with Georgia 640 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: because we said, well, we have half the population in 641 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: Harris County of the state of Georgia, but we had 642 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: just as much turn out that first day of early vote, 643 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: I remember, and it's because we we put in seventeen 644 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: million dollars for the most accessible, obviously secure elections UM 645 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: record turnout of both parties, and that made me very proud, 646 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 1: and actually that it was a heavily Republican area which 647 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: most used drive through voting. Since then, the election that 648 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: we had before it was banned. So you know, fast 649 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: forward to one when the state legislature met they meet 650 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: every two years, they made it a point to continue 651 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: the pandering that Donald Trump, of course had started about 652 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: the election. In practical terms, what that means is now 653 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: in Texas, a partisan pole watcher can stand as close 654 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: as they want to a voter as the voter is 655 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: casting their vote, and the statute says as close as 656 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: they need to see and hear, so they determine how 657 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: close that is. Is this to intimidate voters? Is this 658 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: to to say I'm watching you, I'm going to know 659 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: who you voted for. There's even been recordings that were 660 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: found from a far right Republican active is saying, you know, 661 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: we have to go. They identified the Hispanic and African 662 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: American areas of town and said this is where we 663 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: have to focus our poll watching. And I think you know, 664 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: folks have just been told over and over and over again. 665 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, these are the same folks that storm the 666 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: capital based on these lives. So it's the same fervor 667 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: that is being spun into people here to say there's fraud, 668 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: you gotta go. And the other thing that we've seen recently, 669 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: there's more to this. At some point they tried to 670 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 1: ban voting before ten am on Sundays. Of course souls 671 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: to the polls right. That didn't make it through, but 672 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: they have tried with a straight face. The other thing 673 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: that we are seeing now is they added sort of 674 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: a web of technicalities to register and particularly request a 675 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: mail in ballots. So we're having to flag around of 676 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: mail ballot applications for rejection, and we're helping folks try 677 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: to cure their ballots send the information they need, but 678 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: many counties don't have the resources or won't write more. Fundamentally, 679 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: those secretary, the concern is every time you cry wolf, 680 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: every time you call for a phony audit, every time 681 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: you claim fraud, you're weakening the democratic principles behind our country. 682 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: You're weakening faith in our democracy. One of my commissioners 683 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: even he refused to certify the November election because there 684 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: was a power outage. That's a very scary thing that 685 00:41:50,280 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: we're pushing back against. We'll be right back, you know. 686 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: Beyond voting rights, it seems like Texas is becoming an 687 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: incubator for a lot of regressive ideas. Um you've got 688 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: obviously the new restrictive abortion law, but also laws that 689 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: are being introduced to pull hundreds of books off the 690 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: shelves of school libraries. Uh, how do you think these 691 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: kinds of um ideas get supported so that they are 692 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: put into law, approved by a governor, And how do 693 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: you fight back on that level where it's more diffuse 694 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: than you know, in one county in your state, the 695 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: banning of the books you're referring to something that is 696 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: taking hold across Texas and other states as well, with 697 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: this pandering around critical race theory, etcetera. And it is 698 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: very diffused. We saw school board candidates this past election November, 699 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: several long serving it's nonpartisan, but generally they were Democrats. 700 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: You sort of knew they were a school board trustees 701 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: defeated by far right school board candidates who were supported 702 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: by national groups very clearly, and they were you know, 703 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: anti vax ers, and they were espousing this kind of 704 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, January six type mentality. And so there is 705 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: a very organized effort to support that kind of candidate. 706 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: One of those folks who was just elected this past November, 707 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: recently in a school board meeting very clearly intimated that 708 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: more African American teachers leads to more dropouts, and we 709 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: had a big movement with the n double A, CP 710 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: and other national leaders to fight back against this. So 711 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: what do you do? Number one is call out this 712 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,479 Speaker 1: kind of racism that is now It's always been under 713 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: the surface, but is now more seems to be that 714 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: many people feel emboldened to just say this kind of stuff. 715 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,959 Speaker 1: Number Two, organized groups alike run for something. So many 716 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: groups that support candidates at all levels. This past two 717 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: years have made us realize your elections administrator, your your clerk, 718 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: your sheriff, your county executive, those are crucial positions. You 719 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 1: have got to make sure if you donate, if you volunteer, 720 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: if you organize, that you focus on those races. That's 721 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: absolutely crucial because the other side is doing that too. 722 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: And then the third piece I'll say is, you know, 723 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: we can't feed into this divisiveness, right, So I always 724 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: try to talk about sort of the far right. You know, 725 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 1: I serve, but I serve everyone, Democrats and Republicans. I 726 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: work on flood control projects everywhere. I work on vaccinations everywhere, 727 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: making sure they're done in a way that is fair. 728 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: And so we need to take a moment and understand, Okay, 729 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: these folks are being told that their children will be 730 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: frightened and traumatized for life by learning this critical race theory. Okay, 731 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: let's unpack that. So it's to say, look, we're not 732 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: promoting that, we don't know. The goal is not to 733 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: traumatize the children. So meet them where they're at, as 734 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: opposed to saying, oh, that's a college course. You don't 735 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about, right, because folks are not 736 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: coming from a bad place. Everyone's just in an echo chamber. 737 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: I think that makes a great sense. And you mentioned vaccination. 738 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: You you ran a very highly regarded vaccination program in 739 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: Harris County that seemed to get results, whereas in a 740 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: lot of places there was much more confusion and divisiveness. 741 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about how you set that up 742 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,879 Speaker 1: and how you and your team made it successful. So 743 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, we'll see what the listeners can remember from 744 00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: when they first got their vaccine. But a lot of 745 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 1: what we were hearing from around the nation and around 746 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: here is it was sort of like the Hunger Games, right, 747 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: Like you needed to um make sure that you knew 748 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,879 Speaker 1: which website and and get the latest intelligence on when 749 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,800 Speaker 1: to click register, and then you had to wait in line, 750 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: and you know, lucky you if you had a pal 751 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,280 Speaker 1: who was a doctor UM. So we really wanted to 752 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: to move past that and have something that was that 753 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: was fair, that had equity built in. So we had 754 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: a randomized system. It was via phone, so you didn't 755 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: need a computer. You could register all kinds of languages. 756 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: Harris Counties is one of them, not the most diverse 757 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,839 Speaker 1: county UM in the country, and so many languages, and 758 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: then folks were selected at random, with additional entries for 759 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: the people who were older or had pre existing conditions 760 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,880 Speaker 1: or this kind of thing. But you know, with everything 761 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: we do, we try to see even the funds we've 762 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: given for landlords and for renters and UM just support 763 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,479 Speaker 1: on all kinds of issues, most recently on crime. Where 764 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: we focus our programs is where the data tells us, 765 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, this is where there's the most crime, This 766 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: is where there's the most under investment. It's not about 767 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: who has a buddy downtown or you know, what's the 768 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: latest group that's freshest on your mind. And maybe that 769 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: loses me some political alliances, but I don't think it 770 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: necessarily does. People see the work and I think I'm 771 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,399 Speaker 1: setting a tone. I know I am, and I hope 772 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 1: that more folks come into government who are sort of 773 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: don't feel compelled to adopt the icky nous of government. 774 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: And what I've learned over this past three years have 775 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: been in office is it's not naive to say, you know, 776 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't do it that way. Apply through this, you know, 777 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: apply through this committee, and we'll see and and people 778 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: get it and they stop kind of asking you for 779 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: icky things and you can actually, you know, you can 780 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: do good stuff like that. I think that's a slogan 781 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: for your next campaign. Get the icky out of politics, 782 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,919 Speaker 1: right right? Love it. Well. You know, sometimes we hear 783 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: only the negative um about what's going on at the 784 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: state level, one outrage after another. So if what advice 785 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: would you give someone who, you know, maybe I might 786 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: want to get involved, but it's only seeing the negative, 787 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: seeing the ikey, they're not sure that it's for them. 788 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: How would you make the case that people like you, Lena, 789 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: people with energy and a positive approach and good common sense, 790 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, should get involved in politics and government. One 791 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,439 Speaker 1: thing I think about a lot is we have ups 792 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: and downs, and and the downs are heartbreaking many times, 793 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,120 Speaker 1: but the other side is not giving up, so we 794 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: can't either. You know, I'm not going to pretend like 795 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: it's easy. I'll give you an example. We have funded 796 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: criminal justice reform but also a lot of crime fighting initiatives, 797 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: and we try to really smart things, so I don't 798 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: want to contribute to mass incarceration two point out. But 799 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,879 Speaker 1: it's been record levels of funding and they still say 800 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: I defunded the police. And you know, my detractors are 801 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,840 Speaker 1: over here saying I'm releasing violent criminals. So there's people 802 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: that really believe this, you know, and of course it's scary, 803 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: something as scary as violence, so folks, you know, the 804 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: vitriol and the nastiness of folks that really think I'm 805 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: out there as part of some conspiracy to cause crime. Right, 806 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 1: you know how this goes, and to be able to 807 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 1: walk through that with your headheld high is important. And 808 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: anyone who jumps into this they need to fully expect 809 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: that there's going to be something like this. But that's 810 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: the reason to prevail is so this cynical bullshit frankly 811 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,839 Speaker 1: doesn't win, right, so that we can be civil and 812 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: disagree on policy, but not this kind of stuff. You know, 813 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 1: I did not think i'd have to deal with a 814 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,560 Speaker 1: pandemic and floods and fires in a winter storm. But 815 00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: I'll tell you it is so worth it. Giving early 816 00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,720 Speaker 1: child education to kids, um, keeping somebody safe from domestic violence, 817 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,760 Speaker 1: keeping someone off the streets, my god, it's just setting 818 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: a community up for for competitiveness for a generation. So 819 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, it is so worth it. It It is not easy, 820 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: but they're not giving up either, so let's keep going. Oh, 821 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: a woman after my own heart. I love that, Lena, 822 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,359 Speaker 1: and you're a right. I mean, if you believe that 823 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: things can be better, people can have access to a 824 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,600 Speaker 1: better life, that we can work together to achieve common goals, 825 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: you can't give up in the face of relentless criticism 826 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,440 Speaker 1: and negativity. And I know that's true about you. I 827 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: am so happy to talk to you today, and I'm 828 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: so proud, Secretary, that you're in this fight still so 829 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,719 Speaker 1: many of us. I just have to say it. As 830 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,759 Speaker 1: I face these attacks, you know, I think of you, 831 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: and I hope that folks get a picture of me 832 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: cheering them on as well, and we could have a 833 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: big group here of wishing for positive change. Thank you 834 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,200 Speaker 1: for including me, Thank you, Thank you so much, Judge 835 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 1: Lena Hidalgo. To keep up with this rising star from 836 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 1: the Lone Star State, you can follow Judge Lena Hidalgo 837 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter. And if my conversations with Lena and David 838 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,719 Speaker 1: have got you thinking about how you can help strengthen 839 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,759 Speaker 1: our democracy, you know there are so many ways to 840 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 1: do your part. Run for something, whether it's for your 841 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: school board, your city council, or some other local office, 842 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,040 Speaker 1: as Lena told us, and as she has demonstrated it's 843 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: worth it. Or support local candidates with your time, your money, 844 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 1: or your big Instagram following. Show up at a local meeting, 845 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,880 Speaker 1: let your representatives know that they have to answer for 846 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: their decisions. And make sure please that you and everyone 847 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,879 Speaker 1: you know is registered to vote, and that your registration 848 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: is up to date. Don't get purged or dropped off 849 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: the rolls. As David reminded us, we've got to get 850 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: better at playing the long game so that together we 851 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 1: can make our states once again vital laboratories of democracy. 852 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: You and me both. Is brought to you by I 853 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and 854 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:36,760 Speaker 1: Rob Russo with help from Whoma Abdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, 855 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:44,720 Speaker 1: Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Laura Olan, Lona Vlmorrow, and Benita Zaman. 856 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,880 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Zack McNeice and the original music is 857 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,720 Speaker 1: by Forrest Gray. If you like you and me both, 858 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,840 Speaker 1: please tell someone else about it. And if you're not 859 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,359 Speaker 1: already a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can 860 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: subscribe to you and me both on the I Heart 861 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,919 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 862 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week. M