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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Behind the Bastards back to podcast people bad about

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Speaker 2: tell all them you. I'm Robert Evans and yeah with

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Speaker 2: me again for part two of our episode on what

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Speaker 2: Peter Teale thinks about the anti christ. I'm just I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: that's that's what we're talking about, right.

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Speaker 3: I love it. We're getting right to the heart of

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Speaker 3: the matter, you know, because people are like, do you

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Speaker 3: want to talk about the economy, And I'm like, no, no.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't want to talk about the economy.

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Speaker 2: I'm tired of talking about the economy.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about what these idiots think, tell me what

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Speaker 3: they believe.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sarah Marshall, you got anything you want to plug

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Speaker 2: here at the start before we dive back into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a new podcast about the Satanic panic

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Speaker 3: and the wackado horrible things that the fear of a

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Speaker 3: Satan who never showed up to the party caused self

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Speaker 3: described good and law abiding people to bring about. And

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Speaker 3: it's a sad show. It's a fun show. It's a

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Speaker 3: show about history, it's a show about today. It's called

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Speaker 3: The Devil. You know. It's all right now with CBC Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: And of course I also host a show called You're

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Speaker 3: Wrong About and you can listen to that too, and

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Speaker 3: it's uh, yeah, you know, we have fun while trying

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Speaker 3: to get to the bottom of things, much like you do.

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Speaker 2: Right right, We're talking today about Peter Teal being wrong

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Speaker 2: about something important, and we're also talking about the devil

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Speaker 2: he knows, or at least who he thinks the devil

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Speaker 2: might be. Yes, his fantasy devil. Yeah, perhaps his fantasy devil.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee you're not going to see where this is

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Speaker 2: building to.

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Speaker 1: My question, is Sarah, who is your fantasy devil? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 3: Peter Cook and Bedazzled of course.

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Speaker 2: Oh you know I Sarah, you could not have said

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Speaker 2: anything that would have gotten me more on your side

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Speaker 2: than that. I love the original Bedazzled he is He's

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Speaker 2: the best Satan easily by a mile.

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Speaker 3: Tell me why you think that is. And people haven't

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Speaker 3: seen this movie enough. This is a lie. It's Peter

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Speaker 3: Cook and Dudley Moore.

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Speaker 2: I respect, both from a theological standpoint and from just

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Speaker 2: an entertainment standpoint. The idea of a devil who is

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Speaker 2: folks whose primary focus is not on acts of grand

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Speaker 2: evil but on acts of like petty annoyance, like that

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Speaker 2: scene where he's just like casually scratching records and then

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Speaker 2: putting them in the mail. It's so funny to me.

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Speaker 3: And there's a scene where he's ripping the last pages

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Speaker 3: out of novels.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and there's that. There's that, I mean my

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Speaker 2: favorite part. I guess spoilers for the film Bedazzled, which

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Speaker 2: is half a century old. But there's a great scene.

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Speaker 2: There's a great scene where the guy whose soul he's

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Speaker 2: the devil is trying to win and he are talking

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Speaker 2: and the guy the human asked him like, why did

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Speaker 2: you rebel against God in the place it seems like

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Speaker 2: he had a pretty sweet deal and the devil the

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Speaker 2: devil like gets up on top of I think it's

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Speaker 2: a mailbox or something, and he's like, okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: like walk you through what was like you know back then,

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Speaker 2: I'm God. Start praising me. And the guy's like goes

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Speaker 2: around like, I praise you, keep going, keep praising, and

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Speaker 2: be keep praising and be keep And he goes on

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Speaker 2: like this for a while, and eventually the guy's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: can we take a break and maybe I get up

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Speaker 2: there for a minute, and the Devil's like, that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what I thought.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. And it plays on the feeling that

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Speaker 3: a lot of us have in Sunday School or equivalent

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Speaker 3: that like, you know that the character of God in

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Speaker 3: the Bible is insufferable, you know, And I know if

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Speaker 3: that plays into our topic today, but I have always

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Speaker 3: noticed it, and especially and I also really love the

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Speaker 3: cartman Land episode of South Park where Kyle's faith is

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Speaker 3: challenged and so his parents tell him the story of

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Speaker 3: Job and he's like, why would God do that? Too?

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Speaker 3: And it's like, why would God do that? Because like saying,

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Speaker 3: you expect to like try and be a trickster, but

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Speaker 3: the fact that God is like, hey, yeah, I should

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Speaker 3: ruin this guy's life and see if he still phrases me.

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Speaker 3: That's a good use of my time. You're like, hmmah.

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Speaker 3: The day the Devil comes out looking comparatively good in

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Speaker 3: that story because it's less of a betrayal from him.

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Speaker 3: He's just an asshole.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, anyway, watch watch the original Bedazzled Wadled the one, Mabey, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You can't watch that one. It's cute, it's fun. You want,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, one of the

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Speaker 3: great comedy duos. And I do feel like the idea

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Speaker 3: of just that the trickster devil is so beautifully embodied there,

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Speaker 3: and that it's interesting to me that the devil is

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Speaker 3: kind of the trickster character, and we took the trickster,

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Speaker 3: who's necessary in most cosmologies and made him evil is

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Speaker 3: very different. Yeah, a very different role to play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know, folks watch The Dazzled. It's

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Speaker 2: more biblically accurate than Peter Teal's lecture on the Antichrist.

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Speaker 2: I'll say that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that feels so true.

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Speaker 2: So I had planned, Sarah for us to get through

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Speaker 2: the first one of Peter's, like the notes on his

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Speaker 2: first lecture, faster than we did. Because we didn't get

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Speaker 2: through that even.

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Speaker 3: We might have to do like a day long staged

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Speaker 3: event doing that, like when Dandie Kauffman read The Great Gatsby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm ready, yeah, Or I could just get this

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Speaker 2: the Embarcadero to host me while I talk for four

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Speaker 2: days about Peter Teal's lectures on the Antichrist and why

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Speaker 2: they're very silly. But we're going to have to cut

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Speaker 2: through the remainder of that first lecture before we get

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Speaker 2: into who he thinks might be the Antichrist.

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Speaker 3: And so when we left it, I do feel like

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Speaker 3: you've given me a pretty clear sense of how unhinged

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Speaker 3: this thank you good theology is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad we at least landed on that. So

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Speaker 2: when we last left off with Peter, he was complaining

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Speaker 2: that science promised to make us immortal and it failed

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Speaker 2: to deliver, which it didn't, but nonetheless, next Peter says

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Speaker 2: that after the development of the atom bomb quote, technology

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Speaker 2: itself became apocalyptic, and in nineteen forty five, the National

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Speaker 2: Committee on Atomic Information published One World or None, which

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Speaker 2: is generally agreed to have been like the first atomic

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Speaker 2: scare movie, Like this is the first like what if

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Speaker 2: a nuclear war movie? Right, And the gist of this

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Speaker 2: is that nukes were really dangerous and the only rational

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Speaker 2: solution to a world in which everyone has nukes is

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Speaker 2: a strong United Nations that can put an end to

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Speaker 2: war and ensure nuclear weapons are never used. In moss right, yep,

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Speaker 2: I would say I think most people would say, like,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty reasonable reaction to nukes.

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Speaker 3: Kind of the theme of a lot of Twilight Zone

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Speaker 3: episodes as well, pretty reasonably right. Yeah, really middle of

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Speaker 3: the road concept.

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Speaker 2: It's also yeah, also this is also like a reaction

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Speaker 2: to World War Two, where it's like we should probably

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Speaker 2: have some sort of like international law, so like if

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Speaker 2: a country's doing war crimes, there's some sort of mechanism

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Speaker 2: in the.

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Speaker 3: United States from doing the things that we will choose

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Speaker 3: to do again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we don't really do this the ICs.

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Speaker 2: I mean we briefly Serbia, we punish briefly. But that's

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Speaker 2: kind of it, you know, in terms of international law.

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Speaker 2: I'm cutting things down a little bit, but we never

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Speaker 2: This is not a thing that ever really happens, but

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Speaker 2: it is a thing. Peter Teel is in a lot

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Speaker 2: always a very old fashioned kind of paranoid. The UN

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Speaker 2: is the devil, the anti Christ, wants the UN to

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Speaker 2: take over the world kind of.

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Speaker 3: Guys's the Sterling Hayden and Doctor Strangelove kind of a

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Speaker 3: role that's so crucial in American politics.

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Speaker 2: And Doctor strange Love is going to come up in

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Speaker 2: a little bit here. You're gonna hear what Peter thinks

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Speaker 2: about that movie. But it's not it is. He tries

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Speaker 2: to dress it up because he knows that, like, well,

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Speaker 2: cranks to the guys who think that any reasonable person

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Speaker 2: can be like, well, the un never came even any

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Speaker 2: we're close to being a one world government, Like, at

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Speaker 2: no point did it have even a fraction of that

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Speaker 2: much power, obviously.

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Speaker 3: And if it did, then you know they would have

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Speaker 3: solved more problems.

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Speaker 2: You would think maybe things would be better. Peter is

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Speaker 2: that kind of a crank, but he doesn't want you

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Speaker 2: to think about that. So we have to dress this

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Speaker 2: up in like theological terms, and shit, he.

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Speaker 3: Can't just be the guy down at the feed store,

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Speaker 3: because really he's like you know, Dale from King of

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Speaker 3: the Hill. But he has to make it seem important.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so he says that you know, this movie

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Speaker 2: One World or None was the birth of when we

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Speaker 2: started seeing technology itself as like apocalyptic, right, And this

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Speaker 2: is bad because this is Peter is blaming basically the

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Speaker 2: fact that we don't make scientific advancements anymore on this

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Speaker 2: train of thinking that starts, you know, with the nuclear

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Speaker 2: paranoia of this idea that like, well, technology is bad

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Speaker 2: and that's why we're not progressing technologically, of course, And

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've explained enough why this is all nonsense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Also from a film history perspective, that's even wrong,

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Speaker 3: because like, what do you call Metropolis Baby Frankenstein.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I mean the movie and the book. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's all There's so much we could critique about this,

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Speaker 2: but I need to read you this next line. Coincidentally,

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Speaker 2: this is also when the Catholic Church stopped giving apocalyptic sermons?

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Speaker 2: Did it? Is that true? I don't know what the

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Speaker 2: fuck you're talking about because I went to I like,

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Speaker 2: my dad was Catholic. I didn't only go to Catholic Church,

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Speaker 2: but I went to Catholic Church a good amount as

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Speaker 2: a little kid, and I remember the priest talking about

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Speaker 2: the end times and the Second Coming. It wasn't the

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Speaker 2: only thing. That's certainly not as much of a focus

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Speaker 2: in Catholicism. It is as it is in a lot

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Speaker 2: of like Evangelical Christian Christian sects, but it's not not

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Speaker 2: talked about.

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Speaker 3: Start talking about it constantly, and therefore they're not doing

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Speaker 3: it at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I guess by citation here is like I

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Speaker 2: went to church as a kid. What the fuck are

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Speaker 2: you basing this on on, Peter, Like that's just not true.

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Speaker 2: And it's also like, well, Catholicism's just one chunk of Christianity,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of Christian faiths and priests and pastors

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Speaker 2: over the last seventy five eighty years have talked about

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Speaker 2: the apocalypse in different ways. It's a common subject. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, this whole pillar of his belief system, which

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Speaker 2: is that people don't really talk about the Antichrist or

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Speaker 2: the apocalypse anymore outside of technology causing it is like, No.

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Speaker 3: It's like in the late twentieth century people talked about it,

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Speaker 3: you know, an unbelievable amount and like pretty consistently, and

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Speaker 3: you know, it's right. It just feels like he's arguing

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Speaker 3: whatever he feels like he needs to in order to

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Speaker 3: justify his the point he wants to make thing by thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, His issue is that like all of the people

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Speaker 2: who are pushing these secular apocalyptic fears about like fertility

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Speaker 2: collapsing or bioweapons or AI are kind of playing into

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Speaker 2: the real Antichrist, because the Antichrist wants to stop technological progress, right,

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Speaker 2: That's that's the argument he's making.

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Speaker 3: Yes, fascinating, the Antichrist is Amish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or a Luddite right now, Peter, the other thing

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Speaker 2: I mean and that's really what he believes. He does

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Speaker 2: believe the Antichrist is a ludite, and he also misunderstands ledites. Whatever.

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Speaker 2: He also, he goes on he's angry that he doesn't

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Speaker 2: like secular apocalyptic fears because and he complains, he lists

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Speaker 2: that like, oh, regular people when they talk about the apocalypse,

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Speaker 2: they're always worried about like nukes or biological weapons or

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Speaker 2: AI or you know, the children of men, fertility collapse.

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Speaker 2: And that's really incomplete. Quote. We should add the risk

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Speaker 2: of the biblical Antichrist manifesting is a one world government.

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Speaker 2: Here the secular maps neatly onto the theological, the one

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Speaker 2: world state of the Antichrist on the other hand, and

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Speaker 2: the no world of armageddon. And like, first off, that's

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Speaker 2: not really a risk because like they're no one to think,

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Speaker 2: no reasonable person thinks one world government is anywhere close

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Speaker 2: to a reality, Like it's just not a realistic fear,

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Speaker 2: Like even if that was a bad thing, it's not

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Speaker 2: a realistic fear looking at the world today, and the

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Speaker 2: whole this idea that like, oh, the secular maps onto

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Speaker 2: the theological. You've got the one world state of the Antichrist,

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Speaker 2: and then the no world of the of Armageddon, and

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Speaker 2: like those things are only map neatly if you're an idiot.

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Speaker 2: One world or None is arguing in favor of a

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Speaker 2: strong you win and a strong international criminal court to

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Speaker 2: stop world leaders from doing crimes against humanity. That's not

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Speaker 2: a one world state. Like the movie that he argues

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Speaker 2: for is not advocating a one world state, and neither

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Speaker 2: are most people who want a stronger You Win or ICC.

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Speaker 2: Basically zero percent of people including me, who support a

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Speaker 2: stronger ICC, want to one world state. You just want

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Speaker 2: there to be punishments for genocide, right, right.

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Speaker 3: And in this case, it feels like people, including Peter

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Speaker 3: tail in this case, are betting themselves in a pretzels

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Speaker 3: to justify their desire to get to kill whoever they

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Speaker 3: want and call it morally good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think with Peter, because I don't think

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Speaker 2: Peter's specifically all that motivated to kill specific groups of people.

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Speaker 2: But I think Peter ses, if there's an international criminal court,

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Speaker 2: if there's a higher international law of any kind, then

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Speaker 2: that means I'm bound by laws, right, And that's wrong.

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Speaker 2: That's fundamentally wrong for anyone to be able to punish me.

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Speaker 2: Peter teel or hold me accountable for any of my

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Speaker 2: actions whatsoever. That's the worst thing that can happen.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm baby, but I'm also the most powerful person

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Speaker 3: in the world, or I should be.

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Speaker 2: And I should be because of how smart I am.

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Speaker 3: But also, who will stop me? Someone? Please stop me?

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Speaker 3: R I know no one stopped me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fucking Peter. So this next paragraph is I've said

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Speaker 2: this several times. This is where things get really crazy.

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Speaker 2: But this is where things get really crazy.

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Speaker 3: This is where things get really crazy. It's been really crazy.

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Speaker 2: It's been pretty crazy, but it's about to be crazier.

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Speaker 2: We should at least suspect that the apocalypse in our

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Speaker 2: newspaper headlines is the apocalypse of the Bible. This is

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Speaker 2: not mysticism but simple extrapolation of human nature. Wisdom has

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Speaker 2: not increased, even if information has. The one point on

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Speaker 2: which the atheist and fundamentalist degree is that violence comes

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Speaker 2: from God. The Christian, however, knows it comes from Man.

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Speaker 2: I know what the fut are Wait, Peter, what what

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Speaker 2: are we saying? I think? Let me tell you what

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Speaker 2: I think he's arguing here. I think he's saying that atheists,

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Speaker 2: obviously fundamentalists believe that everything comes from God, so that

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Speaker 2: includes all violence. Atheists blame all violence on religion, right.

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Speaker 3: If that makes sense when you put it that way, I.

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Speaker 2: Was an angry atheist. I'm not an angry atheist anymore.

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Speaker 2: I'm still more or less an atheist. I've never met

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Speaker 2: an atheist who thinks all violence is caused by religion, right,

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Speaker 2: I've never met a one. That's a crazy thing to believe.

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Speaker 3: There's certainly capitalism looking at you, kid, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of other stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, some dude like murdering his wife because he doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to pay alimony. It's not God. That kind of

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Speaker 2: stuff happens. Like a fucking a rapist committed rape. Isn't

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Speaker 2: like God didn't make him do that, right, Like, obviously

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Speaker 2: there's rapists to do it through the worry.

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Speaker 3: Just sort of male entitlement and just you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's anyway. But it's like, this is the kind of

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Speaker 3: writing where it's like you have to kind of simplify

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Speaker 3: everything into an either or. It feels like right again

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Speaker 3: is very eighth grade.

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Speaker 2: And it's it is very like it's like how a

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Speaker 2: twelve year old debate bro Christian kid talks about a

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Speaker 2: like when I was a twelve year old right wing

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Speaker 2: debate bro. This is how I thought about atheism. Right,

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Speaker 2: But it's like a straw man that an adult wouldn't have.

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Speaker 2: It's such an absurd idea. But both the atheist and

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Speaker 2: the fundamentalists believe all violence comes from God.

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Speaker 3: Counterpoint, No, it's like you've never talked to an atheist.

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Speaker 2: I mean, no one thinks that. I don't even think.

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Speaker 2: I guess like fundamentalists would argue that everything comes from

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Speaker 2: God or whatever. So but yeah, but like even then,

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Speaker 2: I think most very few of them would phrase it

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Speaker 2: that way, even of the religious fundamentalists that I know.

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Speaker 2: That's just a weird way to phrase anything. Like you're

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Speaker 2: well in any.

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Speaker 3: Argument based on there being like a few key groups

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Speaker 3: of people who all think the same thing as each other.

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Speaker 2: They all think never exactly. And it's this, weirdly enough,

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Speaker 2: this sentence of all of the reading I've done on

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Speaker 2: Peter Teel, and I have read extensively. I've read a

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Speaker 2: lot of most of the interviews he's done over the years.

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Speaker 2: I've read a lot of his own writing. This is

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Speaker 2: the thing that scares me most. This scares me more

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Speaker 2: than any of his anti democratic polemics where he's talking

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Speaker 2: about the need for a dictatorship. Because the fact that

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Speaker 2: he would think this and say this is evidence that

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Speaker 2: there is a disconnect in his mind between what he

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Speaker 2: thinks people believe and actual humanity, and that disconnect is

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Speaker 2: so it's very upsetting to me, Like, that's scary how

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Speaker 2: disconnected he is from reality. I would say I am

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Speaker 2: upset by this. Yeah. Now, from here, Peter argues that

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Speaker 2: if we're heading for war or armageddon, then it's not on.

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Speaker 2: If it's reasonable to think that there might be an

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Speaker 2: apocalyptic war, right, then it's not unreasonable to worry that

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Speaker 2: an antichrist might rise to power, promising to end wars

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Speaker 2: and bring stability back. Right. If it's reasonable to say

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Speaker 2: we might have a war that ends humanity, it's not.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be reasonable also to say that the

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Speaker 2: antichrist might promise rise to power, promising to stop that war. Right.

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Speaker 2: Both of those are logical things, and let's let's let's

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Speaker 2: give him that that's a nonsense point in and of itself,

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Speaker 2: but let's pretend that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Sure whatever, Peter somehow.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't draw a connection from that to like, well, an

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Speaker 2: antichrist might rise to power promising to stop World War three,

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Speaker 2: to the fact that Donald Trump, who he's supported, got

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Speaker 2: elected promising to stop like literally saying, I will avoid

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Speaker 2: world War three if you vote for me, we'll stop

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Speaker 2: having a We won't have War War three, but Kamala

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Speaker 2: will lead us there or Biden will lead us there.

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Speaker 2: Like that literally is directly what Trump said. I'm not

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Speaker 2: editorializing in any way. Oh, I know you know this, Peter, right,

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Speaker 2: Like anyway, Peter just doesn't deal with this, right, Who's

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Speaker 2: to say this thing that actually happened obviously isn't relevant.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about how scary it would be if it

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Speaker 3: happened in an imaginary way, so you can ignore the

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Speaker 3: real way that it do just happen. Yeah, that'd be fun.

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Speaker 2: The Bible literally says that many Christians, many believers, will

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Speaker 2: be tricked by the Antichrist when he rises to power

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Speaker 2: promising to fix a lot of this shit. And Donald I,

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Speaker 2: Peter literally believe the Antichrist will rise to power promising

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Speaker 2: to stop World War three. Donald Trump rose to power

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Speaker 2: promising to stop World War three. Obviously, none of this

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Speaker 2: is worth talking about, completely irrelevant. Instead, Peter now talks

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Speaker 2: about two different like eighty year old novels about the

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Speaker 2: Antichrist from like the early twentieth century, both of which

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Speaker 2: and he brings these he summarizes them. I don't think

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Speaker 2: we even need to talk about the novels because what

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Speaker 2: he's what he's pointing out is that both of these

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Speaker 2: novels about the Antichrist and most antichrist narratives all have

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Speaker 2: a plot hole, which is that they don't explain how

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Speaker 2: the Antichrist will actually seize power quot in late which

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Speaker 2: is like a weird thing to care of anyway, whatever,

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Speaker 2: In late modernity, we finally have the answer to how

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Speaker 2: the Antichrist wi rise to power. By talking constantly of

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Speaker 2: armageddon or in secular terms of existential risk, he the

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Speaker 2: Antichrist rides the wave of apocalyptic anxiety. Oppenheimer limited, we

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Speaker 2: need new knowledge like we need a hole in the head.

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Speaker 2: Nick Bostrom has proposed preventative policing and global compute governance

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Speaker 2: and his Vulnerable World hypothesis. Elisar Jedkowski's latest book is

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Speaker 2: If Anyone builds It, Everyone Dies, And Peter is saying

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Speaker 2: all three of these guys are potential Antichrists or servants

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Speaker 2: of the Antichrist, right, because they're redding. As he gives

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Speaker 2: this lecture series that's entirely about his apocalyptic beliefs, he's saying,

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Speaker 2: these guys who are talking about armageddon are all clearly

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Speaker 2: agents of the Antichrist, if not the Antichrist themselves, because

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Speaker 2: no one else would talk about the Antichrist and or

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Speaker 2: the apocalypse so.

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Speaker 3: Much except as he talks about the apocalypse.

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Speaker 2: Except it's fine with him.

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Speaker 3: The whole thing is built on paradox is, because it's like,

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Speaker 3: we have to avoid a one world government by giving

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Speaker 3: all of our power to a dictator who will protect

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Speaker 3: us from basically another dictator question Mark, You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's the funniest thing to me. We'll get

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Speaker 2: to his other Antichrist, the fact that he's like Alizer

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Speaker 2: yed Kowski, maybe an Antichrist right, certainly an agent of

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Speaker 2: the Antichrist. Made we've made fun of him on this

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Speaker 2: show a lot, right, Like he's a he's an AI

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Speaker 2: risk dude, and obviously I don't like AI. I don't,

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Speaker 2: but but not like yed Kowski is like a rationalist

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Speaker 2: who believes in He's like a member of a cult,

400
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Speaker 2: kind of the leader of a cult based on these

401
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Speaker 2: like deranged ideas of rationality, and he thinks AI is

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Speaker 2: dangerous because AI will become a god that and and

403
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Speaker 2: it will any AI god we create will inevitably want

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Speaker 2: to kill us.

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Speaker 3: All right, I mean it's sanxious enough in terms of

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Speaker 3: taking all our jobs. You know, we can get start

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Speaker 3: with you that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, he's not one of the it'll take our jobs thing.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't care about artists making a living. Yedkowski cares

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Speaker 2: about like he believes that the Harlan Ellison short story,

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Speaker 2: I have no mouth that I must, but I must scream.

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Speaker 2: That's what he literally thinks AI will do.

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Speaker 3: Right, But before that, it'll take our jobs.

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Speaker 2: It'll take our jobs exactly. And it's fun because like

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Speaker 2: Peter Teel funded yed Kowski in his early career, his

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Speaker 2: like rationalism and stuff, Like Peter gave this guy money

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Speaker 2: and supported the growth of like the rationalist subculture in

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Speaker 2: the Bay Area.

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Speaker 3: And then he was like, I know not that.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, he's literally saying. He says in this lecture

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Speaker 2: that he thinks he had Kowski is dranged now because

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Speaker 2: he had Kowski's anti AI.

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Speaker 3: So he has a former mentee who then takes his

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Speaker 3: ideas in a direction he doesn't like, and he's like

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Speaker 3: that guy, uh huh could be the Antichrist. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if nothing else, that doesn't this story make you feel

427
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Speaker 3: better about your own beefs? You know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do kind of think Garrison might be the Antichrist,

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Speaker 2: you know, my my protegee, but yeah, that's.

430
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: Separate once protege could always be the Antichrist.

431
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: I mean, Sophie, it's certainly not impossible.

432
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: Garrison is a perfect angel.

433
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 3: Sophie is the one you least suspect, you know, when

434
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: you think about it.

435
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it could be Sophie. It could be Sophie.

436
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: I've I've accepted that a while ago.

437
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 3: I think it's Paul Pierce.

438
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: Anyway, you think it's Paul Pierce? Okay, sure, why not?

439
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: So this is kind of where I've decided to get

440
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 2: into the most publicized fee of Peter's Antichrist lectures, which

441
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: is his predictions as to what modern fit people might

442
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 2: be the Antichrist in disguise. So obviously Yudkowski, you know,

443
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: is at least in consideration.

444
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 3: Guy I've never heard of.

445
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: Obviously, right, this guy must be it. And Peter not

446
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: only hates Yudkowski, he feels the need to analyze him

447
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: as a possible Antichrist, because Yudkowski's main claim to fame

448
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 2: now is he's trying to like warn people about AI

449
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: and stop AI development, and AI is the only thing

450
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: that could give Peter a return on his financial investment

451
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 2: commensurate to what he thinks he deserves. So obviously Yudkowski's

452
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: evil for trying to stop this stuff.

453
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 3: You know, we also appreciate that, Like even if you're

454
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: you know, like, I don't think that the kind of

455
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 3: person who wants to go to a four part lecture

456
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 3: series on the Antichrist is like my kind of person.

457
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: But even so, I do feel like you would assume

458
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 3: you were in for something different than a guy being like,

459
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: here are people I don't like personally and why I

460
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: think they are the Antichrist, Like that's another level You're.

461
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: Like, oh, hey, what we're doing. Yeah, And it's it's

462
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: because basically Peter's primary claim here is that the Antichrist

463
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: is anyone warning people about the apocalypse and trying to

464
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: save the world. That's if that's not the Antichrist, that's

465
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: an agent of the Antichrist except for me. Except for

466
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: me obviously, and Donald Trump, you know, so here's here's

467
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: a quote from his first lecture. My thesis is that

468
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: in the seventeenth and eighteenth century, the Antichrist would have

469
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 2: been a doctor strangelove, a scientist who did all this

470
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: sort of crazy, evil science. In the twenty first century,

471
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: the antichrist is a luddite who wants to stop all science.

472
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: It's someone like Greta or a Leezer. You cast's Greta Tunberg,

473
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: he says, he's specifically, and he he'll go in later

474
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: and be like, I don't think he had kowski is

475
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: He definitely thinks Greta Tunberg might be the Antichrist. He

476
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: very directly is clear about that. He thinks Greta Tunberg

477
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: could be the Antichrist.

478
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: What what what is it about her that so unnerves tyrants?

479
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the fact that she's you know,

480
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: very smart and abasemble, truth corrupt. Yeah, the truth, speaking

481
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 3: the truth to power.

482
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: She's proved to I mean, honestly, like, I've been just

483
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: shocked at how continually good her takes have been. Just

484
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: because like anytime someone gets famous, that famous, that young,

485
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: like you expect, okay, at some point they're going to

486
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: like either buy into a conspiracy theory or get something,

487
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: gets something weird, and she's just like really consistently got

488
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: a great head on her shoulders. Yeah, and so that

489
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 2: scares the hell out of them.

490
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and can't be convinced to look away, which

491
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 3: I do feel like, you know everything you've been talking

492
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: about it. I mean, we've been joking about it, but

493
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: so much of it as like, what in the world

494
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: is that thing? Look away? Let me do a little

495
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: sleight of hand over here. It's parlor tricks.

496
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: I think fundamentally, why why he hates her and why

497
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: she is hated by a lot of these guys so

498
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: much is not that they're scared of the day because

499
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: obviously she doesn't have any power. She's like somewhat influential,

500
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 2: but she can't. She's not going to throw Peter Teal

501
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: in prison or destroy thought. She simply does not have

502
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: the power.

503
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: She's not a corporation. She's just a person with morals.

504
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just in the person with morals and basically

505
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: zero real world power. But she is emblematic and embodies

506
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: a fact, which is that I'm not a believer in Oh,

507
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: justice will win out the bark the arc of history

508
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: bends towards like I don't. I think that's a silly stance.

509
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: But inevitably, in the future, if there are people, they

510
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: will realize that Peter Teal and all of his ilk

511
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: during this period of time were deranged monsters who destroyed

512
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: the environment and who fought viciously against any attempts to

513
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: reduce the harm humanity was doing to the biosphere in

514
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: order to make themselves wealthier. And they will be hated

515
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: as a result.

516
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: That's just a fact, but not just based on the people,

517
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: because so many people will have died as a direct

518
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 3: result of their actions and inactions.

519
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I think Greta represents the reality that in

520
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: the future these people like won't they won't be able

521
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: to after especially after they're dead, keep up the lie

522
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: that they were fighting against all this disinformation from the

523
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: left and pretend, you know, the climate change fake Like

524
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: that lie won't hold up at a certain point.

525
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: Well, And that they're working so hard to create a

526
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: mythology where like the story changes every day based on

527
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: what needs to be true for them to be right,

528
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: and that that kind of mythology won't perpetuate itself forever,

529
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: and keep protecting them.

530
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly like there will be a future in which

531
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 2: the bullshit that they have spent their lives propping up

532
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: is not widely believed. And that doesn't mean it'll be

533
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: a perfect future or even a more just future. It

534
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: just means that in the future people will know what

535
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 2: a scumbag Peter was, and that's why he is so

536
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: scared and hateful of her, right, I think that's it.

537
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also that he's going to die and other

538
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: people and he's going to die to live and sail around.

539
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: Yep, he's going to die, probably sooner than he expects,

540
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: like most people, and a lot of folks are going

541
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: to be happy because it'll be good when he dies. Anyway,

542
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 2: speaking of death, advertisements or a kind of death. That's

543
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: what in French, the word for advertisement means the little death.

544
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: And we're back, yes, talking about my flawless knowledge of

545
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: French and talking about Peter Teel's belief that fucking credit

546
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: Tunberg is the Antichrist. So perfect, Let's talk about this

547
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: from a theological standpoint, because one thing the Book of

548
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: Daniel is pretty clear about visa of the Antichrist is

549
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: that the Antichrist is a political leader of some sort

550
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: he has described repeatedly as a prince or a king.

551
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: Now I could see being like, well, obviously that's if

552
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: we're going with the The Bible is true, but not

553
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: always literally. You know, these are apocryphal stories that Okay,

554
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: I can could be a standard for a president or

555
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: a senator, sure, but a young lady who sometimes tries

556
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: to deliver food on a boat, there's no, that's not

557
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: a There's no way to like describe Greta Tunberg as

558
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: a king or a prince. Same with Eliza, you'd CASKI, like,

559
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: they're not political leaders. And the Antigrist definitely is like again,

560
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: Peter's selective embrace of literal readings of the Bible here

561
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: really biting.

562
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: Him in the ass, Like it's all very little roal,

563
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: unless I need it to be so figurative that it

564
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: completely goes in a new direction, thank you.

565
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: I also love his fundamental like, oh, you don't know

566
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: stand Doctor Strangelove like the movie at all, because the

567
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: idea that like, well, in the seventeen or eighteenth century,

568
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: the Antichrist would have been doctor Strangelove, right, well, no

569
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: strange love, yeah, right. For one thing, like in the

570
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: movie of the same name, he's not a political leader.

571
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: He's the president's scientific advisor, and he's not responsible for

572
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: the apocalypse, right, at least not primarily. Right now, the same.

573
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: Act delivering exposition right.

574
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: Exactly, yes, and like it is true. Peter Sellers also

575
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: plays the president, right, he plays he plays by doctor

576
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: Strangelove and the President that Strangelove is advising. But even

577
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: if you're saying, well, that means they're the same person.

578
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: That does Peter Sellers as the President being the Antichrist

579
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense in that movie because.

580
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: Like it's just embarrassing to misremember a movie in your

581
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: big speed.

582
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: It's so bad, like you could rewatch it. You're writing

583
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: a four part lecture series. Man.

584
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: Also, in the seventeenth century, the Antichrist would not have

585
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: been acharacter from a nineteen sixties movie, but it would

586
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: have been the Antichrist just like the you know, the

587
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: Devil's Kid or whatever.

588
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been a king or something.

589
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: Like Bible, a text people knew better than a movie

590
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: that wouldn't come out for three hundred years.

591
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: I also think, again, I don't maybe he hasn't even

592
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: seen the movie, because it sounds like Peter thinks doctor

593
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Strangelove causes the apocalypse in the movie Doctor Strange Love.

594
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: He's like, well, you know it's about it's about an

595
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: atomic bomb, and it's called Doctor Strangelove, So probably Doctor

596
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: Strangelove made the bomb. Obviously. I mean I don't have

597
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: time to watch it, but I deduced it because I'm

598
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: so smart.

599
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: That must be what happens. And like, no, for the record,

600
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: if you haven't seen it, Doctor Strangelove is a mad

601
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: scientist and a Nazi. Yeah, but he doesn't. There's a

602
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: crazed US general who launches the initial nuclear strike and

603
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: says American as can be right, and like the government

604
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: like we try to reach out to the USSR and

605
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: our bunker and are like these are where the missiles

606
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 2: are coming in, you know, you can shoot them out

607
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: of the sky, Like please, we don't don't want to

608
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: actually have a nuclear war. This is a fuck up. Yeah,

609
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: And the USSR is like, oh, well, we actually built

610
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: a doomsday device that will go off automatically and we

611
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: can't stop it.

612
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: Right right, And the premise is like what if an

613
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: American general lost his mind and there weren't adequate safeguards

614
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 3: in place, yes, before he could cause mutually assured destruction,

615
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, yeah, I guess, I mean that's

616
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: certainly not a problem we're having.

617
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: Now, right exactly, certainly no more relevant now than it

618
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: was back then. But it's like neither the President nor

619
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: Doctor Strange Lover antichrist figures, no one really is in

620
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: the movie Doctor Strange Love action now. But it's particularly

621
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: weird to say Doctor Strangelove is the Antichrist because he

622
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: doesn't incite the action. Like that just isn't accurate.

623
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: Have you ever seen because you know the omen has

624
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: two sequels and they're not that good.

625
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: Oh god that does.

626
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 3: The second one has Sam Neal in it and he

627
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 3: plays the adult Damien. He has like taken over the

628
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: world and he's all charismatic and I think in politics

629
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: and dating a newscaster lady. Yeah, but the movie like

630
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: doesn't really know what to have him be doing because

631
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: it is like what would the anti Christ believe? Like

632
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: what would his whole deal be? You know, like people

633
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 3: are kind of like reluctant to state that, yeah, and

634
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: so it's like you get to sort of align it

635
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: with whatever you know, people already find threatening at that time,

636
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: which you know, hence all the Obama stuff.

637
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 2: Right right, right exactly. So the fact that you know

638
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: he's listed Greta Tunberg and Elisa Hidkowski as possible Antichrist,

639
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: both of those things are insane. At least Tunberg, she

640
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: is like popular, she has a lot of like followers

641
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: and people who care about what she says. Alisa Yudkowski,

642
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: he's got his little cult, but he's not you really,

643
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: you think he's got the juice to even be on

644
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: the list of potential Antichrist. You're vastly overestimating this man's charisma,

645
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: rights charisma.

646
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 3: It's not even in the top thousand.

647
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: No, No, I am a more realistic Antichrist than fucking.

648
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 3: keV Bush, way ahead of him.

649
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: Honestly, yes, Jeb is much closer. So after this, in

650
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: the second lecture, Peter apparently goes into more detail about

651
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: his beliefs on the Antichrist. Per the Guardian quote, Teal

652
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: goes on to identify the legionnaires of the Antichrist as

653
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 2: people like at least Yudkowski, Nick Bostrom and Greta Tunberg

654
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: who argued for world government to stop science. So that's

655
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 2: at least a little more realist. He's like, well, maybe

656
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 2: they're not the Antichrist, but they're at least his legionnaires.

657
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, okay man, And again I should I

658
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to say neither yed Kowski, nor Tunberg nor

659
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: Bostrom want to stop all science. Right, specific issues exactly,

660
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: they're very specific issues with specific technologies. But Peter can't

661
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: stand that because again they'll get in the way of

662
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: his profit, right, Like, that's really what this comes down to.

663
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: It's it's very banal, but that is the truth of it.

664
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: Peter goes on to say the legionaries of the Antichrist,

665
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: like Alizia Yeddkowski, Nick Bostman, Greta Tunberg, argue for world

666
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: government to stop science. The Antichrist has somehow become anti science,

667
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: and no, they just don't. When The Washington Post reached

668
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: out to Yeddkowski for a statement, he replied, My understanding

669
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: is that authorities for multiple Christian denominations have stated that

670
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 2: Teal's views identifying the Antichrist with proposals to regulate the

671
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: AI industry are not deemed by them to be compatible

672
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: with conventional Christian belief. It's one of his few statements

673
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: that I'm like, yeah, that's a good response.

674
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's a nice thing. If about standing

675
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: next to someone who's completely off their cracker, you get

676
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 3: to seem a little bit more normal.

677
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: Very seem much more reasonable now. I will say Greta's

678
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: response was much better because her spokespeople, whoever that, whoever

679
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 2: the Post reached out to on her team didn't comment.

680
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: Which is the best response to Peter Teel declaring you

681
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 2: the Antichrist or one of his legionaries. It's just don't

682
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: there's what are you gonna say?

683
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 3: You really shouldn't have to issue a statement saying you're

684
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: not the Antichrist whenever someone accuses you of it or else.

685
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: You know, no one would ever get anything done in

686
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: this country.

687
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: I guess I feel like if I was in that boat,

688
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: I would be like, yes, Peter, I am the Antichrist

689
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: and I'm coming for your soul, buddy, Like I talked

690
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: with the devil and we have a plan for you.

691
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: You don't even know how we're ensnaring it. Yeah, got you, baby, Yeah,

692
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: got you now. At the same time, in his second lecture,

693
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: Peter talks about his luddite Antichrist candidates, like right. While

694
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: he's doing that, he floats another name as a potential

695
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: Antichrist briefly before kind of explaining why he doesn't think

696
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: this guy is the Antichrist. And that name is Mark Andresen. Now,

697
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: Mark Andreesen is the co founder of Andreson Horowitz. He

698
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: is a fellow big tech AI venture capitalist ghoul. And

699
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 2: actually I'd be like, yeah, Mark Andreesen not a bad

700
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: antichrist candidate. He is evil, but Peter hates him not

701
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: because he is a monster trying to destroy all art

702
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: and human culture and replace it with AI slop, which

703
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 2: is literally what Mark Andreeson wants, right, that's his stated goal.

704
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: Mark is the author of something called the Techno Optimist Manifesto,

705
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: which argues that AI will solve all problems, including like

706
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 2: climate change. All of our serious life threatening issues will

707
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: be solved by a super intelligent AI. Therefore, anyone who

708
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 2: tries to slow or stop AI development is evil and

709
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: needs to be destroyed, killed if necessary. Is is what

710
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: you're is insinuated heavily, not directly state, but like anything

711
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: you can do to stop the people who are anti

712
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: AI is justified because they're trying to kill God.

713
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: You know.

714
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 2: That's Mark Andreeson great and.

715
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: What of really well balanced people with a lot of

716
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 3: power in this world, is what I'm learning.

717
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: More and more sane billionaires, all of them, all of

718
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: them sane. And it's funny to me that as nuts

719
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 2: as he is about this, Peter recognizes how crazy Mark

720
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: is because his issue with Mark Andresen is that his

721
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: he he's putting out gobbledegook AI propaganda. M And I

722
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: mean he is, because yeah, I think his issue is

723
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: yed Kowski's anti AI stuff is that it will inevitably

724
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: become a god that's evil. And Andresen is just like

725
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 2: the opposite, where he's like, it will inevitably become a

726
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 2: god but good, right, And so I guess Peter rejects

727
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 2: both of them. But he says this when he brings

728
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: up Mark in the context of the Antichrist. It's not Andreeson.

729
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: By the way, I think Andreson is not the Antichrist,

730
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: because you know, the Antichrist is popular. Oh that's it's funny, shade.

731
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: But I thought I'd say.

732
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: His name on the word Antichrist in the same sentence

733
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: several times.

734
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: Several times. I didn't need to bring it up right. Next,

735
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: he goes on to Bill Gates, who he he notes,

736
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 2: you know, it's reasonable to put him on the list,

737
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: but he thinks Gates is ultimately unlikely to be the Antichrist,

738
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: even though he describes him as a Doctor jekylin Mister

739
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: Hyde type character whose positive public face is just a mask.

740
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: Quoth Peter, I saw the mister Hyde version about it

741
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: year ago, where it was just a NonStop tourette's yelling,

742
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: swear words, almost incomprehensible what was going on. And I

743
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: don't have trouble believing that Bill Gates is a dick. Yeah,

744
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: I'll give you that, Peter, I'll give you that. I'll

745
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: give you I don't have trouble believing he's a Jack

746
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: ln Hyde. Clearly his wife left for after the Epstein

747
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: stuff for a good reason.

748
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 3: You know.

749
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: Now, as I noted reporters with The Guardian, namely Joanna Buoyan,

750
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: Derek Kerr and Nick Robbins early actually got trans like

751
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: all seven hours of Peter's Antichrist lectures and listen to them,

752
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: which I have not been able to do yet maybe

753
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: one day, and on the subject of Bill Gates and

754
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: their article, they write something very funny. Ultimately, Teal concedes

755
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: Gates cannot be the Antichrist. Bringing up the topic more

756
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: than once. And here's that's so funny. He really is

757
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: stuck on that. He's not a political leader, he's not

758
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: broadly popular, and again, perhaps to Gates's credit, he's still

759
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: stuck in the eighteenth century alongside people like Richard Dawkins

760
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: who believe that science and atheism are compatible. What and

761
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: that's fundamentally he believes, Well, because being anti science is

762
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: what makes you the Antichrist, So that must mean that

763
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: you can't be pro science and not Christian. Okay, it's

764
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 2: actually possible, Peter. This is disordered thinking. This is like, yeah,

765
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 2: there's something actually wrong here.

766
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: This is like, if you weren't a billionaire, his family

767
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: would be like, hey, buddy, do you want to try

768
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: for you? Yeah, you want to go feed some squirrels.

769
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something to take your mind off the crazy.

770
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: Why don't we put this manifesto in the drawer.

771
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll come back to this tomorrow, Peter. Maybe

772
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: we'll keep working on this.

773
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Why don't we have some hot soup?

774
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, some soup, maybe a cup of coffee, you know,

775
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 2: maybe some tea. Caffeine is probably bad for you right now,

776
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: get off.

777
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 3: The sandy Christ thing for a while.

778
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 2: You've been screaming about Bill Gates for forty five minutes.

779
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I guess like part of the great American

780
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: dream of becoming a billionaire is that no one can

781
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: tell you how crazy you sound.

782
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: You know, that's the whole and that. Yeah, that's part

783
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: of why they're angry at the people they're angry at. Yeah,

784
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: they're doing a bit more research around this area. It

785
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: makes it very clear why Peter Teal hates Bill Gates

786
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: so much, aside from the fact that Gates seems to

787
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: annoy a lot of people in general by being.

788
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: Dick you know, Microsoft word had some you know, right

789
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: and some tricky areas. Let's say.

790
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, but it can't just be that because Teal

791
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: is friends with Elon Musk. So the fact that Bill

792
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: Gates is just an asshole can't explain it, right, Yeah. So,

793
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: and I think I figured out what it is, which

794
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: is that Bill Gates has made a big public show

795
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: of wanting to give away and convince other billionaires to

796
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: give away most of their fortunes before they die.

797
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 3: Right the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, without which I

798
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: would not have probably gotten to hear Morning Edition for

799
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: many years.

800
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, my my ex wife wouldn't have

801
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: had a laptop in elementary school, you know. So, I

802
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: I think that's really his issue with Gates. And I

803
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: think that in part because of what I found in

804
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: a Washington Post article, because the Post also got access

805
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: to the tapes and an article by Natasha Tiki, Elizabeth Dwashkin,

806
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: and Garrett de vinc They wrote this The investor. Teal

807
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 2: said he recently encouraged Musk to renege on his twenty

808
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: twelve commitment to the Giving Pledge movement, co founded by Gates,

809
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: which asks wealthy people to commit the majority of their

810
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: fortune to charitable causes. According to the recordings, and this

811
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 2: is Teal here, two hundred billion, if you're not going

812
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: to be careful, is going to left wing nonprofits that

813
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: are going to be chosen by Bill Gates. Teal said

814
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: he warned Musk, according to the recording painting, the philanthropist

815
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: is among the malevolent forces besetting technologists. That's his hatred

816
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: of Gates. Gates wants to billionaires to give away their

817
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: money to these evil left wing causes, and he convinces

818
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: Musk to stop.

819
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: He funded too many modern dance troops. Therefore Antichrist. It's

820
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: like viral standards for your antichrist behavior.

821
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: I gotta say, yeah, and it does. You know. Teal's

822
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: positive on Musk, now, I think because Musk is useful.

823
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: He also, in this lecture series has nice things to

824
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: say about jd Vance, whose political career he paid to

825
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: get off the ground. Per Maggie Dupree writing for Futurism,

826
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: Teal quote described himself as very pro Vice President JD Vance,

827
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: to whom Teal has given millions in campaign funds. He's concerned. Yeah,

828
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: he did express that he's concerned the VP, whose Catholic

829
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 2: might give too much credence to the pope. The place

830
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: that I will worry about it is to burst to

831
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: the pope, said Teal per The Guardian. And so we

832
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: have all these reports the fights between him and the pope.

833
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 2: I hope there are a lot more. And that's like

834
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: my issue with jd Vance is that he might be

835
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: a papist.

836
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 3: Okay, great, well, we've gone back to puritanism in this country.

837
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: We have to worry about papistry now on top of

838
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: everything else. It's also like, I mean, look, I'm I

839
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: don't believe in antichrist stuff. I never have. I'm not

840
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 3: a devil believer, but you know, which is part of

841
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: my tists in the Satanic panic, which it just seems

842
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 3: like extra wild when you're not afraid of Satan yourself.

843
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: I grew up afraid of a lot of the things.

844
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 3: I was afraid of the Bermuda Triangle, but I wasn't

845
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 3: afraid of Satan because I just wasn't. Didn't seem relevant

846
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: to my life.

847
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 2: It's not a real thing.

848
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 3: If I were to pick an anti christ today, it

849
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 3: would obviously be Trump. Like, he's really behaving very anti Christy,

850
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 3: and it's just so funny to have him leading a

851
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 3: party that has become so much about you know, this

852
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: kind of death cult and armageddonism. And they're like, but

853
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 3: not you, sir, And it's like because because look at it.

854
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: Not the obvious guy. Yeah. And it's again like, even

855
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: the things you name in this are clearly more relevant

856
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: to Trump than credit Dunberg or whatever. I mean now

857
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: outside of this frankly unhinged lecture series. Back in June,

858
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: Peter gave an interview to Ross do that doubt it whatever,

859
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: however you say? Last name, but the New York Times

860
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: and Ross one of the worst writers alive. He used

861
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: to be the senior editor of the Atlantic, and I

862
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,439
Speaker 2: think he might be the most up his own ass

863
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: conservative writer in the country. He was Bill Crystal's replacement

864
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: and a massive downgrade from Bill Crystal. Even he's both

865
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: entirely uncritical of big tech and pro everyone should be religious.

866
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: And so he and Peter Teel are peas in a

867
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: pod and during that interview, Ross asks what Peter thinks

868
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: about the Techno Optimist Manifesto that Marc Andreesen self published

869
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, And again, that's basically saying we

870
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: have to accelerate at all costs the growth of AI

871
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: because it will solve all of our problems. So slowing

872
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: things down AI down is the same as committing mass murder.

873
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, and think of us studio ghibli esque portraits of

874
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 3: your husband that will never be.

875
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: Drawn exactly exactly. It's a fate worse than death for

876
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 2: all of us. And the fact that, like the document

877
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 2: is generally considered to be a foundational text for AVE accelerationism,

878
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of the philosophical name for what

879
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: Andresen is preaching. And that's close to what Peter tele

880
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: advocates because he's literally arguing that Gretit Tunberg might be

881
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: the Antichrist, or is at least furthering the Antichrist's agenda

882
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: because she's skeptical about AI and fossil fuels and shit.

883
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: And I'm the Antichrist too. Congratulations to me.

884
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: Like Teal definitely thinks the same way. But I think

885
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: he's incapable. I think why he has to reject andresen

886
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: is that he can't speak positively about appear with the

887
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: same ideas if they put those ideas down first. And

888
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: so he says this about the essay. It represents a

889
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: kind of corporate utopianism. In the nineteen nineties, there was

890
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: a broad cultural optimism that technology would solve everything, but

891
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: by twenty twenty five, that optimism is shrunk. Today's visions

892
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: are narrower, less inclusive, and less confident. The grand utopian

893
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: projects have given away to incremental gains, overshadowed by fears

894
00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: of collapse. Oh and that's accurate, But like the problem again,

895
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: he's not capable of like looking what he's literally saying.

896
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: The visions are narrower, the optimism has shrunk. That doesn't

897
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: mean that like we're not making technological progress, but it

898
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: does mean that, like there's a problem in how people

899
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 2: are mess he's a visualizing progress, right.

900
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And it's like perhaps people are more pessimistic

901
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: and perhaps even more reasonable because of how horrible everything's

902
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: been for the last thirty years.

903
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: Exactly.

904
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: I realized that in the nineties it was a utopian

905
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: time when Starbucks had like big upholstered chairs in them

906
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: and he could sit there for a long time and

907
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 3: he could buy from Nora Jones CDs. But that's over man.

908
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And that the article is just a great example.

909
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 2: There's so much ross. Just lets Peter say nonsense without

910
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: ever questioning him. It's like it's one of the worst

911
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: movies I've ever read.

912
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: It's like he's accidentally a great interviewer by being a

913
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: terrible interviewer because I guess lets him say stupid stuff.

914
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do get more out. There's no like Peter

915
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 2: drops the line again. He makes the claim like after

916
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: nineteen forty five, churches stopped preaching end Times sermons, and

917
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: like question Peter, no, they didn't.

918
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 3: Really, Where did all those left behind movies come from?

919
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 2: The Left behind books massively popular? Peter, like Ann had

920
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: nothing to do with technology. By the way, that's not

921
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: how the anti I mean surveillance tech, I guess, but

922
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 2: the Antichrist doesn't rise to power on the back of

923
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 2: fears about fucking AI or whatever. Anyway, I don't know

924
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: how Peter can think this true. I don't know how

925
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: Ross can't question any of this other than Ross is

926
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: just like the fucking boot lickorist boot liquor whoever looked

927
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: at goddamn.

928
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 3: Boot like I hear you got some good blood for

929
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: me later on.

930
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: Right.

931
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 2: One of the weirdest things to me here is that

932
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 2: like Ross is theoretically a Christian, he's a big C. S.

933
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: Lewis fan, and Peter is theoretically a Christian. But then

934
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: in this interview, Peter describes the choice presented by the

935
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: Bible in the Book of Revelations as anti Christ or Armageddon,

936
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: and that this is unacceptable and thus quote, we must

937
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 2: find a third path, right, it's me, which is like, no,

938
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't. That's not like for one thing, the Bible

939
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: doesn't present a choice. It just says there's an anti Christ,

940
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: and that leads to the second coming in an armageddon, and.

941
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 3: Everything's going to get all weird and then people are

942
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 3: going to get up out of their graves. It's gonna

943
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 3: be wacky, you guys. Yeah, yeah, it's not like you

944
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 3: have an option to change that. If you're going to

945
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 3: believe it, you have to just like you know, God knows,

946
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: no one has ever been selective about their beliefs as

947
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: a Christian.

948
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this both that like Ross doesn't question Peter

949
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: on this, Yeah, and also this is so heretical, Like

950
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: I'm not a I don't care personally, but like you should.

951
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 3: But don't you think that it's like weirdly become like

952
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: a tenet of modern sort of American I don't know,

953
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 3: like political Protestantism. I guess like we allow people much

954
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 3: for your hand in terms of doing their own interpretations.

955
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: Then absolutely, Yeah, it seems like things have gotten a

956
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: little bit over the top.

957
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: I mean, and that's that is definitely true that like

958
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: we like that's that's a major factor in like the

959
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 2: birth of Protestantism. Right, is this idea, this this this

960
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 2: ongoing thing that like, well, anyone can be a priest

961
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: or a pastor, anyone can speak the word, right, and like.

962
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: Why can speaks at a certain point if they feel

963
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: like it.

964
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: Anyone can interpret the Bible, sure, but even so it

965
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 2: is kind of very fundamentally heretical to be like the

966
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: Bible says, there's we have to choose between, you know,

967
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: the Antichrist of the apocalypse. But I think there's a

968
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: third way, because Peter is literally saying, I think we

969
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 2: can avoid the Biblical apocalypse by getting our politics right.

970
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: And actually we're kind of getting into Joseph Smith's territory

971
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: right where you're like, I believe in the Bible, but

972
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 3: also I'm adding stuff.

973
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think we can rewrite the ending

974
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: of the Bible.

975
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 3: And also I need to have sex with your wife.

976
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's weird, right, and especially because Peter

977
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: describes himself as a little Orthodox Christian, which like this

978
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: is not anywhere close to orthodox. Right, the idea that

979
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: you're arguing God might let us avoid having an Antichrist

980
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: and an armageddon and still live forever, that's not Christian theology.

981
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: That's Peter deology.

982
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: You're right, it's like getting into your starting to found

983
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: your own religion at that point, which you certainly have resources.

984
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 2: And that's I would argue what Act seventeen is doing

985
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: is they are not spreading Christianity to Silicon Valley elites.

986
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 2: They are creating a new like a like a Mormonism

987
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: for rich people.

988
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 3: Christianity with like second billionaire culture. Now that's the Antichrist,

989
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: the curse child of too.

990
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 2: Evil anteist of Christ. And it is kind of weird

991
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: to me. Part of what's strange is that like he

992
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 2: wants to avoid the biblical apocalypse. And I think what

993
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 2: that means is that Peter Teel is so clearly scared

994
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: of death that he can't even embrace everlasting life like

995
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 2: he would prefer He vastly would prefer some scientist keeps

996
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: his body alive then like Jesus ensures him eternal life,

997
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 2: and like.

998
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: I believe in you, God, but stay the fuck away.

999
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fascinating.

1000
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: The most reasonable thing that I've you know, theorized him

1001
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 3: thinking this whole time in a way.

1002
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1003
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: And also it's like it's this thing of like, you know,

1004
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 3: because I do feel like if you look at sort

1005
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 3: of the sum of human experience, it's like, yeah, organized

1006
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 3: religion facilitates a lot of horror and a lot of evil,

1007
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 3: and it also facilitates a lot of structure and a

1008
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 3: lot of just a lot of stability in people's eyes.

1009
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: And I think one of the positive elements of it

1010
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: is the feeling of allowing yourself to not be in

1011
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 3: control and sort of believing in something, you know, not

1012
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 3: even necessarily a higher power, like it's a twelve steps

1013
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 3: kind of a thing, although that certainly is helpful for

1014
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 3: a lot of people too, because the sort of like

1015
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 3: the ability to believe in something beyond yourself and to

1016
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 3: sort of maybe use religion to get out of the

1017
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: human urge towards sollipsism. Yeah, it feels like this is like, no,

1018
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: I'm actually using religion to become more self centered than ever.

1019
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 3: Isn't that great?

1020
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And it's it's just like the idea that, yeah,

1021
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: you're you're so scared of death that you can't even

1022
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: even the idea of heaven. You can't even you have

1023
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: to find a fix for that, yeah.

1024
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 3: Right, like death becomes her Yeah, you know, person just

1025
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 3: walking around getting hairline fractures, incluing himself back together.

1026
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: And again, Ross, who is a useless thinker and a

1027
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: useless writer and a waste of column inches for The

1028
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: New York Times, can't even question that there's only one

1029
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 2: really valuable thing about the article that he writes Interviewing Teal,

1030
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: which is that it includes a fascinating segment where Peter

1031
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 2: talks about his early attempts to secure eternal life for himself.

1032
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 2: And I'm just gonna read I'm going to read a

1033
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: long quote from the interview here, Peter. I remember nineteen

1034
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: ninety nine or two thousand when we were running PayPal.

1035
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: One of my co founders, Luke Nosek. He was into

1036
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: alcore and cryonics and that people should freeze themselves. And

1037
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 2: we had one day where we took the whole company

1038
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: to a freezing party, you know, a Tupperware party. People

1039
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: sell Tupperware policies at a freezing party, they sell and

1040
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 2: the Ross butts in here was it just your heads?

1041
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 2: What was going to be frozen? Teal? You could get

1042
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 2: a full body or just ahead ross. The just ahead

1043
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 2: option was cheaper, Teal. It was disturbing when the dot

1044
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: matrix printer didn't quite work and so the freezing policies

1045
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: couldn't be printed out.

1046
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 3: Okay, I missed s matrix, Prince, that's buddy.

1047
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: I think a critical and thoughtful interviewer might have said

1048
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 2: something like, hey, it kind of seems like a lot

1049
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 2: of companies in a life extension space, like the guys

1050
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: who were selling you youthful blood to inject into your body,

1051
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: are like questionable and sketchy, and maybe con Men has

1052
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: repeatedly encountering stuff that doesn't work or is sketchy, like

1053
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: Alcore not being able to make a printer work. Has

1054
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: any of that made you reevaluate whether or not you're

1055
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 2: just following for a series of cons like the old

1056
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: pharaohs of Egypt taking fucking strychnine or whatever to make

1057
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 2: themselves live forever, or like are you still good? You

1058
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 2: still follow in all that? Like Ross doesn't asked this

1059
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: at all. Now, Instead, when Peter talks about how this

1060
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 2: cryonics company couldn't even get a printer to work, Ross

1061
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: nonsensically adds technological stagnation once again, right no, which is like, no,

1062
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 2: that's not what that's an example of it at all period.

1063
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 2: But Peter responds, but in retch kind of ignores Ross.

1064
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 2: But in retrospect it's also a symptom of the decline

1065
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: because in nineteen ninety nine this was not a mainstream view,

1066
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: but there was still a fringe boomer view where they

1067
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 2: still believed that they could live forever, and that was

1068
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: the last generation. So I'm always anti boomer, but maybe

1069
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: there's something we've lost even with this fringe boomer narcissistem

1070
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: where there were at least a few boomers who still

1071
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 2: believed science would cure all their diseases, no one who's

1072
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: a millennial believes that anymore.

1073
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 3: I don't even know what that aside was about.

1074
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 2: What is that even about? So you're anti boomer because

1075
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: they thought they could live forever, but you.

1076
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 3: Can, yeah, or just like, you know, say more about

1077
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 3: what did it feel like to think about getting your

1078
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 3: head son off by these people? How much did just

1079
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 3: the head cost versus the body? Say more about that?

1080
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 3: Exactly would they give you someone else's limbs or put

1081
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 3: you on a big robot body like RoboCop?

1082
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so we're almost done here. I want to

1083
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: end by talking a little bit more about Renee Gerard

1084
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: and Schmidt and some of some of Teal's philosophical beliefs.

1085
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 2: But first, let's have an ad real quick, all right,

1086
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: So we're back, and I talked up at the start

1087
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: about Karl Schmidt, who's the Nazi philosopher who discussed how

1088
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: to destroy democracies in a way that Peter Teal followed

1089
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: and rene Gerard, who is this He's this big belief

1090
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: in sort of like this mimetic theory of like, uh,

1091
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: like mimetic rivalry, right, where like people, once they cover

1092
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: their basic needs still want things, and so they kind

1093
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: of pick, well, what is this other guy who seems

1094
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: to be doing better than me have? And they like,

1095
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 2: that's kind of mimetic rivalry, but it doesn't make people happy,

1096
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: so they need scapegoats, you know. And Gerard's attitude was

1097
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: like Christianity brought an it should have brought an end too,

1098
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: that it's certainly evidence that we need to bring it

1099
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: into that it's bad to escapegroat groups of people. And

1100
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: christ was kind of like that's why he was killed, right,

1101
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 2: he was made into a scapegoat, and that's like the

1102
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: final evidence that it's wrong to do that, you know.

1103
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 2: That's Gerard's attitude. Peter claims to be a major follower

1104
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: of Girard's, and he's gone to a bunch of gatherings

1105
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: and in fact, in two thousand and four, he and

1106
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: one of his mentors organized a week long seminar on

1107
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: renee Gerard at Stanford, and they invited Girard who was

1108
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 2: alive at the time, And they also invited a scholar

1109
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: of Carl Schmidt who was also like a peer of

1110
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 2: Renee Gerard named Wolfgang Palaver, who is Plaver is one

1111
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: of Peter Teal's favorite intellectuals name, it's quite a name,

1112
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: and Teal is very like a huge, big fan of

1113
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: this guy and a major like like cites him quite

1114
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: frequently and has invited him to a number of these

1115
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: different events. Right, this two thousand and four seminar on

1116
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 2: Girard is right after Peter Teal got rich after he

1117
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 2: like sold PayPal, so he he funds this thing. And

1118
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 2: the theme of the conference is politics and the apocalypse,

1119
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 2: and the type like that theme was suggested by Wolfgang

1120
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: Palava like before they were planning the event. So this

1121
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 2: is obviously is a couple of years after nine to eleven,

1122
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: and people who are you know, what you'd call mimetic theorists.

1123
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: These folks who like buy into a lot of Girard's

1124
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: beliefs about me medic rivalry are trying to figure out

1125
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: like did the was nine to eleven, Like an example

1126
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: of like planetary mimetic rivalry, this like was it did

1127
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: it come out of anger from one part of the

1128
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 2: world at like all of the things that the West

1129
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: has that they don't have, which is very much kind

1130
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 2: of in line with like a lot of what Bush

1131
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: was saying, you know, not exactly, but that you can

1132
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: see some people they're jealous of our freedoms, right, So

1133
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: kind of one of the questions that these these Girard fans,

1134
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: these mimetic you know, theoreticians are talking about, is like,

1135
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: is that kind of does that explain what was going

1136
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: on there? Or is there something else for us to

1137
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: to take out of this? And Teal's attitude was that

1138
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 2: the primary that nine to eleven showed us is that

1139
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: the West can't protect itself. He wrote a paper right

1140
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 2: before this event in which he stated, the brute facts

1141
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: of September eleventh demand a re examination of the foundations

1142
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: of modern politics today. Mere self preservation forces all of

1143
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: us to look at the world anew, to think strange

1144
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 2: new thoughts, and thereby to awaken from that long and

1145
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: profitable period of intellectual slumber and amnesia that is so

1146
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 2: misleadingly called the Enlightenment. And his big attitude here is that,

1147
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 2: like Osama bin Laden is thinking rationally in a modern

1148
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 2: political sense, But the West is not right and we

1149
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: haven't realized the actual nature of the fight. And if

1150
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: Karl Schmidt were in charge of things, our response to

1151
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 2: nine to eleven, the just response would be to call

1152
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: for a crusade against Islam, right, of course, that's the

1153
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: rational response.

1154
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, irrational to try and eradicate our religion, I find generally, I.

1155
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: Mean yeah, and that is like literally, like Teal's argument

1156
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 2: is that, like this is where this is like the

1157
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 2: fundament irrationality that the West indulged in is not seeing

1158
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: it as a holy war, is not seeing it as

1159
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: a fundamental clash of civilizations. We didn't do that enough,

1160
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: which like, I mean, we did the people you would

1161
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: have supported then, George W. Bush, like that is how

1162
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: they framed it and it failed.

1163
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 3: That was very much how Alan Jackson was describing the situation. Again,

1164
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: he's like, really recommending anti Christy behavior, we must say, yeah,

1165
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 3: I also realize I keep saying it like anti pasto,

1166
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, what if it was delicious?

1167
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, what if the Antichrist tasted better? But if the

1168
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 2: olives but was less filling at the same time.

1169
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 3: Just a nice cold snack on a summer's day, right,

1170
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 3: you know when you got pasta coming later.

1171
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'm on tucky cold snack, Yes, exactly. So Wolfgang,

1172
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: like Peter is a huge fan of him, specifically because

1173
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: of how Wolfgang interpreted a lot of Carl Schmidt's writing

1174
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: and like some essays that he wrote on like what

1175
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 2: Carl Schmidt meant and kind of his like how his

1176
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 2: concept of the political functioned, and that's what he bases

1177
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: a lot of his like well we were doing the

1178
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: wrong things after nine to eleven on is his ideas

1179
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 2: of like how Schmidt would have handled things instead. And

1180
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: I want to quote from an article in Wired kind

1181
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 2: of summarizing this journey, It would quickly become apparent that

1182
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 2: Teal had spent some time considering the paper Palavar presented

1183
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: the day the two men met in nineteen ninety eight,

1184
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 2: The strange new thoughts Teal wanted his audience to entertain,

1185
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 2: where it turned out largely those of Karl Schmidt, but

1186
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: where Palaver had been repulsed. Teal extolled Schmidt's robust conception

1187
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 2: of the political, in which humans are forced to choose

1188
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 2: between friends and enemies and everything else's delusion. The high

1189
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 2: point of politics, Palaver quote Schmidt is saying, are the

1190
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 2: moments in which the enemy is in concrete clarity recognized

1191
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 2: as the enemy. In Teal's mind, Osama bin Laan was

1192
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 2: capable of this kind of politics. The West, with its

1193
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 2: fetish for individual rights and procedures, was not so. Palaver

1194
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 2: is quoting Schmidt as being like, this guy believed that

1195
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: the high point in politics was the defining of an enemy, right,

1196
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: and getting a group of people, getting a community to

1197
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 2: recognize an enemy. And that's a lot of I mean,

1198
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: that's where Schmidt kind of goes in with Girard Is.

1199
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: They both had this concept of like scapegoating as being important.

1200
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 2: But Schmidt is like, this is how you gain power.

1201
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: This is actually how you destroy democracy is by finding

1202
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 2: an enemy, defining them as not part of the community,

1203
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 2: and excising them, and then you continually push that barrier.

1204
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 3: And if you don't do that, year a moron.

1205
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: Right, And Palaver is saying that's what Schmidt believed because

1206
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: he was bad, right, and that that's a that's an

1207
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 2: awful thing to believe, But like, this is what Schmidt

1208
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 2: was advocating, and Teal is like, no, that's awesome, and

1209
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: like their relationship over the last twenty years has been

1210
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 2: polov gradually realizing. Peter Teal likes him because he describes

1211
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: accurately what a monster believed, and Peter Teel is the

1212
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: same kind of monster.

1213
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a fun day at Stanford.

1214
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: It's it's awesome. To continue from that Wired article, Schmidt,

1215
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: Teal conjectured would have responded to nine to eleven by

1216
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 2: calling for a holy crusade against Islam, but the West

1217
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 2: was instead slipping beyond politics altogether. Teal seemed to fear

1218
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 2: towards the creation of a bland world, embracing economic and

1219
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: technical organization. This was schmich nightmare scenario, and such a world,

1220
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 2: Teal said, a representation of reality might appear to replace reality.

1221
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: Instead of violent wars, there could be violent video games

1222
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: instead of heroic feats. There could be thrilling amusement park

1223
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 2: rides instead of serious thought. There could be intrigues of

1224
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 2: all sorts, as in a soap opera. But that counterfeit reality,

1225
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: Teal argued, would be just the brief harmony that prefigures

1226
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 2: the final catastrophe of the apocalypse. The harmony in Schmid's

1227
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: telling of the anti Christ. Teal's discussion of Schmidt didn't

1228
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 2: mention the Hitler or the Nazis.

1229
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 3: Once irrelevant who cares?

1230
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: Great, Yeah, why does it matter that this guy was

1231
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 2: a Nazi and arguing for Nazis? And what matters is

1232
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 2: that when he was we need to take his idea

1233
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 2: about picking an in me And it's actually a really

1234
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 2: bad thing if like people are playing video games instead

1235
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 2: of fighting in real wars, that like that is the

1236
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 2: path to the anti Christ. Like we're replacing the cult

1237
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 2: real heroism with fictional hero It's a very fascist idea.

1238
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: It's fundamentally a very fascist idea.

1239
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 3: So basically he's like, yeah, like if we don't become fascist,

1240
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 3: we're gonna we have to become fascist to protect ourselves

1241
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 3: from the Antichrist. Sweetie.

1242
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And kind of the the conclusion Teal draws from

1243
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 2: Pilaver's writing about Schmidt is that because Schmidt's fundamentally suggested,

1244
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: like we have to have these dramatic solutions to the problem,

1245
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: like to deal with the enemy, like.

1246
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: Final we kill them.

1247
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 2: Right, he's a Nazi, right, Teal pulls back from that,

1248
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 2: but he's his solution is a you have to fortify

1249
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,919
Speaker 2: the modern West, and you can't do that through democracy, right,

1250
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: So you have to you have to hide, you have

1251
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: to trick people into it in order to get around

1252
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 2: democratic institutions because those aren't going to like you can't

1253
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: actually work through them. So I'm going to quote from

1254
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: Teal directly. Instead of the United Nations filled with interminable

1255
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 2: and inconclusive parliamentary debates that resemble shakespeare in tales told

1256
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 2: by idiots, we should consider the secret coordination of the

1257
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 2: world's intelligence services as the decisive path to a truly

1258
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: global packs Americana. In other words, that we need to

1259
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 2: do is develop government. Yeah, no, no, no, no, just

1260
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 2: a one world surveillance supersystem controlled by Peter Teals, not

1261
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 2: a one world government, no, no, we need we do need.

1262
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 2: Teal says, a political framework that operates outside the checks

1263
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 2: and balances of representative democracy. But that's not a one

1264
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: world government, right, It's just a surveillance state that I'm

1265
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: in charge of, you know.

1266
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: Basically saying it would be terrible if somebody did the

1267
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 3: things that I want to do myself. It has to

1268
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: be me.

1269
01:06:53,120 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 2: Right exactly. God, Yeah, it's it's awesome, you know, and

1270
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,439
Speaker 2: it there's that Wired article does a really good job

1271
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 2: of talking about Pilaver's kind of dawning horror as he

1272
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 2: realizes that like he's been reading all the old papers

1273
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 2: of mine about Schmidt, but interpreting them is like, this

1274
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 2: guy's awesome, and I want to do all the things

1275
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 2: he's suggesting.

1276
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 3: Like when Oliver Still realized all these guys were getting

1277
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 3: into finance because they loved his movie that they never

1278
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 3: saw the last quarter of apparently.

1279
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 2: And it's been like Girardians in general, like people who

1280
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: are like like our followers of Renee Gerard and his

1281
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: intellectual tradition have like this has been kind of a

1282
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: growing horror for a lot of them. I think they

1283
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: probably should have started earlier, because, like it has often

1284
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 2: been said that Renee Gerard was kind of the inventor

1285
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: of the like button on Facebook for good reason, because

1286
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 2: Peter Thiel has justified him betting on Facebook by saying, quote,

1287
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 2: I bet on mimicis right, like on on mimetic, This

1288
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 2: idea that like memetic rivalry is the underpinning of Facebook, right,

1289
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 2: it's the underpinning of social media that I'm going to

1290
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 2: beat both people being jealous and wanting to imitate the

1291
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 2: lives of other people that they see once it right,

1292
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: And so people have been saying since the early two

1293
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 2: thousands that, like, Girard is kind of Girardian philosophy is

1294
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: kind of baked into a lot of the most toxic

1295
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 2: stuff about social media. But what really fucked a lot

1296
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 2: of these people up is kind of more recently because

1297
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 2: JD when they saw JD Vance during the twenty twenty

1298
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 2: four election start lying about Haitians and like spread knowingly

1299
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: spreading like lies about like Haitians eating dogs and stuff,

1300
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 2: because this is classic scapegoating, right, And this is again

1301
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 2: Girard was saying it's bad to do that. Vance, who

1302
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 2: calls himself a Girardian, is clearly just saying like, oh,

1303
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 2: Gerard kind of explained how scapegoating works, and I like that, right.

1304
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 3: It feels like reading a book on or an article

1305
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 3: on child abuse and like the psychological effects that beating

1306
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 3: your child has on them, and your takeaway is like, Wow,

1307
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 3: if I beat my child, they're going to be a

1308
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 3: lot more obedient and do more cares. I'm going to

1309
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 3: do that. Hey, everybody, this article says you should beat

1310
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 3: your child, And the person who wrote it is like.

1311
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 2: What, Yeah, exactly, it's this. It's so like I'll quote like,

1312
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 2: here's because Vance has directly stated that coming to understand

1313
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 2: Girard influenced his Christianity.

1314
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 3: Quote thank God.

1315
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he spoke of his theory of a medic rivalry,

1316
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 2: that we tend to compete over the things that other

1317
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 2: people want. Spoke directly to some of the pressures I

1318
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 2: experienced at Yale. But it was his related theory of

1319
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 2: the scapegoat and what it revealed about Christianity that made

1320
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:40,759
Speaker 2: me reconsider my faith.

1321
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 3: It made me realize that I could be a Christian

1322
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 3: in an absolute dick wat you care about you beings

1323
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 3: were human suffering, and that was very conspiring to me.

1324
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Gerard's saying Christ was killed because he was turned

1325
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 2: into a scapegoat by these powers, you know, doing the

1326
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 2: thing that that author Terian monsters always do, which is

1327
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 2: create and destroy scapegoats to distract people from the fact

1328
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 2: that the system is unjust in making them unhappy. And

1329
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 2: Vance is like, yeah, this changed. Like the idea of

1330
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 2: Christ as a scapegoat made me realize that I could

1331
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 2: lie about Haitians to become the vice president. Like that's

1332
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 2: basically what Vance has said.

1333
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 3: That's nice, Yeah, yeah, it's there.

1334
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 2: It's cool.

1335
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: I think Jade Vance could have had less education and

1336
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 3: would have been just fine. Yeah, less access to education

1337
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 3: for one Apple action.

1338
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: Right to continue from that Wired article. For some Gerardians,

1339
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 2: this was a breaking point. The memetic theorist Bernard Peret

1340
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 2: lambasted Advance and his billionaire mentor in a French political journal,

1341
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 2: accusing them of casting a shadow over Gerard's legacy. Within months,

1342
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 2: several more prominent Girardians followed suit. It's difficult to claim

1343
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 2: Gerard who fundamentally believes that violence is linked to exclusion

1344
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,839
Speaker 2: and at the same time accuse Haitians of eating dogs.

1345
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 2: Girardian scholar Paul Dumoche told a Canadian newspaper, either you

1346
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 2: didn't understand your ride or you're a liar.

1347
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 3: I mean when you put it that way.

1348
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 2: And I guess this is where we'll kind of close,

1349
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 2: you know, calling.

1350
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,799
Speaker 3: The burn unit for Peter Teal and they satisfying little.

1351
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 2: Way and jd Vance, yeah, this little I mean fucking

1352
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 2: Polaver's apparently. Yeah, emailed him a few times being like,

1353
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,640
Speaker 2: how are you okay with this? You know, how is

1354
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: anyone okay with this?

1355
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 3: It's like they may have way too much power and

1356
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 3: it may be horrifying to contemplate, but nothing will ever

1357
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 3: make them less idiotic than they clearly are. And there's

1358
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 3: something nice about that. It's scary, but at least we

1359
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:41,560
Speaker 3: can feel superior.

1360
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a there's a good bit at the end

1361
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: of that wired piece where I think Polaver kind of

1362
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 2: reveals that he has Teal's number. What I've observed are

1363
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 2: traces of deep fear, he told me, fear of death,

1364
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 2: fear of terrorism, and it all comes down to a

1365
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 2: lack of trust in a craving for security. Pilaver suspects.

1366
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 2: There are so many cases where he expresses fears and

1367
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: concerns and need for protection. Palaver says, and if your

1368
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: main thing is seeking protection, you play with fire.

1369
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 3: Huh.

1370
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 2: And I guess that's like, okay, Yeah, I mean I

1371
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 2: would say it's Peter can recognize that fears of the

1372
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 2: apocalypse and the end of days could allow an Antichrist

1373
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 2: to take power, but doesn't understand that in his own life,

1374
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: your own fear of that is leading you to embrace

1375
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 2: what is effectively the Antichrist, Right, you're so scared of

1376
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 2: dying that you are embracing apocalyptic like just extremely dangant.

1377
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: You're playing with fire, you are embracing authoritarianism, you are

1378
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 2: welcoming the Antichrist in because you're so scared of death.

1379
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,679
Speaker 3: And there you go, and because you're so rich, everyone

1380
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 3: else has to welcome the Antichrist along with you.

1381
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 2: Apparently, and none of your weird like hoax medicine attempts

1382
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 2: to extend your life have proven to work. And you

1383
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 2: get just gonna blame Greta Tunberg by saying she's anti

1384
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 2: science because you can't just acknowledge that the thing you

1385
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,799
Speaker 2: wanted is something that rich, powerful people have always wanted

1386
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 2: and never gotten because it's impossible and you're no different

1387
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 2: from the pharaohs, and.

1388
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 3: They're never going to get it.

1389
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,799
Speaker 2: Nope, No, you will die and be forgotten.

1390
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 3: And you know, and that's kind of nice.

1391
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 2: That's good, it's good. That's why I'm fundamentally optimistic because

1392
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 2: of death. Right. I think it's a good thing in

1393
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 2: the long run that people die and that we're never

1394
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: going to like, immortality is not real and I don't

1395
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:39,680
Speaker 2: think it ever will be.

1396
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 3: Right, none of these people are ever going to be

1397
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 3: around forever, and a lot of them are going to

1398
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,919
Speaker 3: like nothing, will be choke on a bit of toffee

1399
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 3: or something. And sure, you know, not enough of them,

1400
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 3: but yeah, no.

1401
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: Not enough, but they all something will get all of them,

1402
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 2: like it will everyone, and that's good. It's good that

1403
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 2: people die. If if someone actually created an immortality cure,

1404
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: I would I would want to stop that. I think

1405
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 2: that that's broadly, I don't think it's possible. It's a

1406
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 2: silly thing to even theorize, but it's bad. It would

1407
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: be bad if it was real.

1408
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 3: Well also, like even if that didn't exist, then it

1409
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 3: would only exist for like the worst people in the world, you.

1410
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 2: Know exactly, yes, yeah, and it would be the end

1411
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 2: of progress fundamentally, if like people stopped dying, you know,

1412
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 2: like that's just it's it's not even good theoretically. I

1413
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 2: get people get angry whenever I bring this up, where

1414
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 2: they're like, so you don't want to cure cancer. I'm like,

1415
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 2: if you cure cancer, people will still die. You won't

1416
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 2: cure cancer. Also, but like.

1417
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 3: Also, there's like eight million cancers to cure, you know,

1418
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 3: you just pick one and just keep going until you

1419
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 3: got a Bengo.

1420
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 2: No, I believe if we do cure, if we were

1421
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 2: to cure all of the current cancers, then we would

1422
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 2: start seeing different, weird cancers that people don't get right

1423
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 2: now because they just don't live long enough for them

1424
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 2: to happen. But we'll keep experiencing new.

1425
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 3: Cancers, start getting the like Publical Patriarch eight hundred year

1426
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 3: old guide cancer exactly.

1427
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1428
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1429
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 3: And also it's like, think about how bored people are

1430
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 3: now and how much more bored we would be if

1431
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 3: we were immortal, you know.

1432
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, that's the thing, and that's the thing Gerard like,

1433
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 2: that's kind of something Gerard was dealing with, is like this,

1434
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 2: you know, when people's needs are met and they're still unhappy.

1435
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 3: Like, I imagine the trouble we would cause for each

1436
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:27,759
Speaker 3: other if we lived forever.

1437
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much how much worse mimetic rivalry would be? Yeah?

1438
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well anything else, Well, thanks for telling me

1439
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 3: about someone so horrible and embarrassing that they I have

1440
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 3: come around to your moral of, well, let's embrace death

1441
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 3: because at least he's going to get that guy.

1442
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love let's embrace death, Like let's all

1443
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 2: cheer death on as it goes after Peter Thiel.

1444
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 3: Death wielding a sickle like a Polo mallet, right uping

1445
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 3: towards another billionaire.

1446
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, you know, And let's all encourage Peter Teel

1447
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: to explore the ocean floor like those other guys.

1448
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 3: I hear. There's a lot of good stuff still down there.

1449
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 3: You could find those other guys, Yeah, could bring up

1450
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 3: their vaporized you could.

1451
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 2: Save them there. No, they're they're all They need to

1452
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 2: be rescued.

1453
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 3: They're playing park cheesy.

1454
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:30,600
Speaker 2: Only you, Peter, only you can save them with Poseidon. Yeah. Ah.

1455
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 3: The Antichrist is down there.

1456
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 2: Pluggables before we roll out here.

1457
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. So well, I you can find me at my

1458
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 3: show You're Wrong About, where we talk about the folly

1459
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 3: of man and iconic bimbos and misunderstood history and all

1460
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 3: kinds of fun stuff, and also at my new show

1461
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 3: The Devil you Know, which is from CBC Podcasts. You

1462
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 3: can find it wherever you listen to podcasts, and it's

1463
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 3: about the Satanic panic and also all the horrible things

1464
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 3: that people do and use Satan as an excuse to do,

1465
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 3: which is of course very relevant to today and it's

1466
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 3: we got to talk to some amazing people, and I'm

1467
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 3: so happy to get to share their stories with everybody.

1468
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,520
Speaker 2: I'm happy too, both for that and because the episode

1469
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 2: is over, and so I get to not work anymore.

1470
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, you stop working too. I don't care

1471
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 2: what you're doing. If you're a heart surgeon, I'm listening

1472
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 2: to this. Cut stop walk away, walk away us Are

1473
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 2: you raising a bridge? Get out of there, pilot, jump

1474
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 2: out of the plane, you know, put on your put

1475
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 2: on your backpack with the thing in it, and get

1476
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 2: out of there.

1477
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 3: Everyone quit working, right and everything whatever.

1478
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 1: Robert Anti christ Evan says.

1479
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 3: If you're the Antichrist, stop antichristing this minute. You got

1480
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 3: a footbath to go.

1481
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 2: I would. I would be such a good Antichrist. Uh yeah,

1482
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 2: But unfortunately Greta Tunberg took the job from me.

1483
01:17:58,240 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: You know.

1484
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's pretty good too.

1485
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the podcast is over. Behind the Bastards is a

1486
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media,

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Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

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Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: new episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel

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Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash At Behind the Bastards