Speaker 1: Welcome to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos Kings,
Speaker 1: the King of Reality TV and one of the most
Speaker 1: sought after executive producers in reality television with over ten
Speaker 1: years a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with
Speaker 1: the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the
Speaker 1: entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit un
Speaker 1: forgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about.
Speaker 2: Hey, rain drops.
Speaker 1: On today's episode of Reality with the King, we have
Speaker 1: to talk about all things reality television, but we also
Speaker 1: got to talk about all things that are happening in
Speaker 1: the reality of the world. In this particular case, both
Speaker 1: are intersected because p Diddy was a reality star who
Speaker 1: started making the band I want to work for Diddy,
Speaker 1: And he did have a Sean Thomos show that was
Speaker 1: going to come out this year, but it got canceled
Speaker 1: due to everything going on. So welcome to True Crime
Speaker 1: Thursdays Reality with the King Edition. And I cannot do
Speaker 1: this alone, so I am here with my good friend
Speaker 1: Legal Ego Honey. She is also a judge. She is
Speaker 1: the host of.
Speaker 2: The award winning podcast Holding Court.
Speaker 1: So y'all know how I'm talking about the beautiful, the talented,
Speaker 1: the amazing woman and mother that she is. Give it
Speaker 1: up for Ebony K.
Speaker 3: Williams rain Drops, Hello darlings, and the King. I salute you, honey.
Speaker 3: Let's get into all of it. I like that framing though, too.
Speaker 3: I like true crime. What are we doing true crime
Speaker 3: Thursdays with the King?
Speaker 2: Yeah? True crime Thursdays. Because the thing is this, I'm into.
Speaker 1: All things true crime. I'm launching a new series that
Speaker 1: is coming out in June, so stay tuned for that
Speaker 1: is in a true crime space. But with this ditty
Speaker 1: stuff happening, it hit me Ebany that it is the
Speaker 1: intersection of true crime reality star because Puff was on.
Speaker 2: Making the band.
Speaker 1: I want to work for Diddy the four on Fox
Speaker 1: that I worked on alongside him, DJ Calla and Meghan Trainer.
Speaker 1: So I do want to get into a lot that's
Speaker 1: been happening because what's going on in this case has
Speaker 1: been the talk of the town for the past like
Speaker 1: year year and a half. So to update everybody who
Speaker 1: has been living under roped.
Speaker 2: As you all know, Mediamogo, SEANP.
Speaker 1: Ded Combs is in jail for allegedly because he hasn't
Speaker 1: been found guilty for alleged crimes of sex trafficking.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's what he's in jail for.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: What has been happening for the past three days?
Speaker 1: The trial has started and as of today's taping, we
Speaker 1: are going to discuss the first couple of days of
Speaker 1: the trial, and mie K Williams is going to update
Speaker 1: us on exactly what's been happening.
Speaker 2: So they want to trial his former girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Cassie Ventura, who is eight months pregnant, had to suffer
Speaker 1: through being a witness in this case by talking about
Speaker 1: some of the things she experienced, and I want Ebony.
Speaker 2: To update us on all things going on. So Ebonie,
Speaker 2: what is going on in this case and why is
Speaker 2: Cassie a part of me? Because we saw.
Speaker 1: The video where he physically harmed her at the lobby
Speaker 1: of a hotel in the hallway. I'm sorry, but this
Speaker 1: case is not about domestic violence. This case is about
Speaker 1: sex trafficking. So can you educate us on what's been
Speaker 1: going on and how Cassie is involved in this from
Speaker 1: that arena?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so broad, Carlos. The magnitude of what we're
Speaker 3: talking about by virtue of first of all, the magnitude
Speaker 3: of Sean Diddy Combs. Right, we are his contemporary. We
Speaker 3: were raised on the cultural impact of this man and
Speaker 3: this entity, you know, because that is exactly what he is.
Speaker 3: And put a pin in entity and enterprise because that's
Speaker 3: actually part of this case.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: So when we think all things music, but also fashion,
Speaker 3: also liquor and spirits, also television, also h all the
Speaker 3: things from every genre of the industry, there's nowhere you
Speaker 3: can really go and Sean Combe's or bad boy or
Speaker 3: sorock or some you know, Comb's enterprises doesn't touch it.
Speaker 3: So let me start with that framing, just so folks
Speaker 3: can really appreciate the magnitude of the defendant. It's hard
Speaker 3: to equate it to anything, but think of the magnitude
Speaker 3: of an O. J. Simpson where it was the NFL,
Speaker 3: but it was hurts, it was uh naked just uh
Speaker 3: was it naked whatever those movies were that he was on.
Speaker 3: You know, yes, thank you think that for our generation, Okay,
Speaker 3: And many people Carlos are going ahead and claiming this
Speaker 3: case as the case of our century. You know, if
Speaker 3: oj was the case of the twentieth century, this is
Speaker 3: certainly the case thus far of the twenty first century,
Speaker 3: and my legal peers are framing it that way. So
Speaker 3: that sets the stage. Now let's go to the charges.
Speaker 3: You correctly cited that one of the main because it's
Speaker 3: really five major charges that are in this federal indictment,
Speaker 3: the three original the sex trafficking is one of them,
Speaker 3: but they are joined with two very important co charges
Speaker 3: transporting for the sake of prostitution and the biggie as
Speaker 3: we're kind of calling it in legal communities, the conspiracy
Speaker 3: and racketeering.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then there were two what we call superseding indictments, Carlos.
Speaker 3: So these were indictments that came after the first charges
Speaker 3: dropped and the homes were invaded in Miami and Los
Speaker 3: Angeles and the raids and all of that. That was
Speaker 3: when we got those first three charges sex trafficking, racketeering,
Speaker 3: and conspiracy, and then transporting with prostitution.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then we got two additional which means that the government
Speaker 3: in this case, when I say the government, I want
Speaker 3: to be clemed i ab out the United States of America,
Speaker 3: the Federal Government v.
Speaker 4: Shan Colmes. That's the title of this case. Okay. Again,
Speaker 4: scope and magnitude.
Speaker 3: They were asking after the first indictment Carlos, then prosecutor
Speaker 3: black man by the name of Damian Williams. He has
Speaker 3: sent stepped down from this case, but he was the
Speaker 3: original prosecutor on the case. He was asking for more
Speaker 3: witnesses and more victims, more alleged victims to what come forward.
Speaker 3: He was saying, we're still working on this case. Baby,
Speaker 3: it's not cooked, as the kids would say. It is
Speaker 3: still an active investigation. But based on the facts, evidence
Speaker 3: and proposed witnesses we have thus far, we've put forth
Speaker 3: the first set of indictment.
Speaker 4: Then, very calm in the lo Carlos. This is not uncommon.
Speaker 4: I want to be clear.
Speaker 3: We have superseding indictments, indictments that come after the initial
Speaker 3: framing of the charges because we've got what, more witnesses,
Speaker 3: more facts, more pieces of evidence to add on to
Speaker 3: the first set of charges. So there's an additional sex
Speaker 3: trafficking charge and an additional transportation for the sake of
Speaker 3: prostitution charge, So five total charges we're talking about here. Now,
Speaker 3: let me get to your question, because it is the
Speaker 3: question of the case thus far. When we talk about
Speaker 3: the video that many of us first saw when CNN
Speaker 3: broke this news last year, and we all bore witness
Speaker 3: to the horrific traumatic, extraordinarily violent, just unconscionable. I mean,
Speaker 3: we saw a madman on camera right kicking, beating, dragging
Speaker 3: a woman that didn't even have on shoes or socks,
Speaker 3: and we were all horrified to see it. But you're
Speaker 3: absolutely right. There were no and still are no criminal
Speaker 3: charges attached to that tape.
Speaker 4: Zero none, not.
Speaker 3: That would have been domestic violence or some type of
Speaker 3: assault in the California jurisdiction, statute of limitations ran on it,
Speaker 3: because I just wanted to lay this out for the
Speaker 3: rain drops, Carlos.
Speaker 4: Why not criminal charges on that?
Speaker 3: It's because the statute of limitations, the statute of limitations
Speaker 3: had already run on that tape.
Speaker 4: That tape was I'll get you the year in a second,
Speaker 4: but it was.
Speaker 3: It was the one year window, and which would have
Speaker 3: been the state level that would have allowed it, and
Speaker 3: the three year federal window. Both of them were expired.
Speaker 3: So there are no criminal charges as it relates to that.
Speaker 3: Now you're asking great question, why are we even talking
Speaker 3: about this tape? Why was it the first piece of
Speaker 3: evidence that the prosecutors put into evidence on this.
Speaker 4: Federal trial that seemingly has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: Well, I want the rain Drops to think about at
Speaker 3: least two things being true at the same time. So
Speaker 3: what we see on that video is absolutely domestic violence
Speaker 3: and it is absolutely not a charge in this case.
Speaker 3: So anybody did y'all see saying that they are right?
Speaker 3: And also this part it's very important, Carlos, the prosecutors
Speaker 3: in the federal indictment cite aspects that we do see
Speaker 3: on this video physical assault. I want to read it
Speaker 3: verbatim because I don't want this to get into any
Speaker 3: what Ebony thought of what Ebony said on this one,
Speaker 3: because the stakes are too high.
Speaker 4: I'm sure you can appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: This is clause four. If you pull up any this
Speaker 3: is public record.
Speaker 4: Rain Drops.
Speaker 3: Pull up the original indictment of the United States of
Speaker 3: America v. Shan Colmes. You will see in the very
Speaker 3: first caption they lay out the racketeering and conspiracy part
Speaker 3: Clause go paragraph for number four physical abuse by Sean Colmes.
Speaker 3: This is the government talking physical abuse by Sean Combs's
Speaker 3: aka Puff Daddy akap DD aka Black.
Speaker 4: The defendant.
Speaker 3: Was recurrent and widely known on numerous occasions from at
Speaker 3: least two thousand and nine to continuing years, Combs assaulted
Speaker 3: women by doing, amongst other things, striking, punching, dragging, throwing
Speaker 3: objects at and kicking them. These assaults were at times
Speaker 3: witnessed this is Keith. They were witnessed by other folks.
Speaker 3: They included an instance in the Los Angeles hotel.
Speaker 4: This is the specific video.
Speaker 3: We're talking about here in or about that's the year
Speaker 3: March of twenty sixteen and was later reported where Comb's kicked,
Speaker 3: dragged and threw a vase at a woman. We now
Speaker 3: know that woman to be Cassie Ventura as she was
Speaker 3: attempting to leave when a member of the hotel security intervened.
Speaker 4: By the way rain drops.
Speaker 3: That was the very first witness that the pro secution
Speaker 3: put on the witness stay in day one. The first
Speaker 3: witness we heard was from was that security guard, that
Speaker 3: security officer. Really he was a security guard. And that's important, Flores,
Speaker 3: go ahead, Carlos.
Speaker 1: And from my understanding, the security guard is now a
Speaker 1: police officer for the Los Angeles to Police Department, I believe.
Speaker 2: And what was so interesting is and I want you
Speaker 2: to explain this to me. So allegedly he did.
Speaker 1: He contacted the then security guard to confiscate the footage
Speaker 1: of what he did to Cassie. And is it true
Speaker 1: that the security guard said on the stand that he
Speaker 1: and I believe his then girlfriend or wife he showed
Speaker 1: it to her.
Speaker 2: And did not give it to the police. Is that true?
Speaker 4: More or less? So?
Speaker 3: Right? So, because I had that first question too, I
Speaker 3: was like, well, why did you record this on your
Speaker 3: cell phone?
Speaker 4: Sir? Right?
Speaker 3: And the answer that he said and admits to, which
Speaker 3: I thought was very cringe quite frankly, was that the
Speaker 3: only reason that he recorded this was not for some
Speaker 3: moral high ground to It was not to prove law enforcement.
Speaker 3: It was so that he can show his lady. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if it was his wife or not, but
Speaker 3: so that he could show his lady. Look, look, look
Speaker 3: and see what happened to me at work today. Look
Speaker 3: and see yah, see judge, But look and see what
Speaker 3: I saw. Sean Combs this victim so that he could
Speaker 3: be believed by his romantic partner.
Speaker 4: So this is very interesting.
Speaker 3: I want to make a point too that the read
Speaker 3: because many people said, well, why didn't he go to
Speaker 3: the police, Why didn't he do that? Well, y'all, remember
Speaker 3: he's working in what a commercial capacity at that time,
Speaker 3: He's working for the hotel.
Speaker 4: Now he's not law enforcement.
Speaker 3: And see this is where you know Black Comedy has
Speaker 3: been joking about this for years, right, these toy cops,
Speaker 3: no disrespect, but secure we must be. This is very important.
Speaker 3: Security guards are not law enforcement. They're not they have
Speaker 3: no they're not duty bound in that same way. So
Speaker 3: his main reason for being there was to protect the
Speaker 3: what the property of the hotel, and that's why what
Speaker 3: we heard him testify to Carlos on opening day of
Speaker 3: trial was that he would be letting mister Combs know
Speaker 3: that the damage done by his abusive episode we show
Speaker 3: up on the hotel bill. He's there to make sure
Speaker 3: that the property is safe, not that the individuals per
Speaker 3: se in the hotel. That's what police are for.
Speaker 1: So a question for you, by this being a case
Speaker 1: that outlines sex trafficking and the other things you outline,
Speaker 1: Cassie's testimony is important. Tell me why her testimony is
Speaker 1: important as it relates to us hearing about these freakoffs
Speaker 1: that allegedly and god, I'm saying alleged because he hasn't
Speaker 1: found guilty so I'm not just right, Ebony. Why are
Speaker 1: the freak off details important in this case as Cassie
Speaker 1: has to unfortunately be a month pregnant living through this
Speaker 1: by giving her testimony in front of the man who
Speaker 1: he saw abuse her.
Speaker 3: Yes, so this is very important, the freakoff testimony, but
Speaker 3: also the videotape. What I believe the prosecution is doing
Speaker 3: the government in this case, Carlos, is they are slow walking.
Speaker 3: Let's back up. We've already been told that this case
Speaker 3: will likely be six to eight weeks long.
Speaker 4: That's a long time. Think about all that we've already heard.
Speaker 4: How many already.
Speaker 3: Right, whether you think he's guilty or not, or it
Speaker 3: rises to the occasion of criminal activity or not.
Speaker 4: There's been a lot of.
Speaker 3: And we're on day three barely okay, and we're talking
Speaker 3: about six to eight weeks more of this. So that
Speaker 3: tells me that the prosecution is slow walking. The factual
Speaker 3: foundation is what they're laying, Carlos, taking their time, and
Speaker 3: unfortunately I agree with you, but it's necessary. If you're
Speaker 3: gonna get a conviction, you have got to have a
Speaker 3: cooperating witness. And I think it's very important that people
Speaker 3: acknowledge that Cassie not only is testifying at her vulnerable,
Speaker 3: fragile condition of being eight months pregnant, she's doing so
Speaker 3: under her own name.
Speaker 4: And she didn't have to do that. She could have. Yeah,
Speaker 4: she made a decision. She chose to do that, Carlos King.
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, she chose to with forego a pseudonym, because
Speaker 3: she could have been testifying as Jane Do one. As
Speaker 3: we're being told future victims, alleged victims will be testifying
Speaker 3: under pseudonyms Je Chambo two, Maybe there's a Jane Doe three.
Speaker 4: We don't know.
Speaker 3: But the fact that Cassie Venturer says, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: it's me. I am a famous woman in my own right.
Speaker 3: This culture and community know me as it relates to
Speaker 3: this man. And I believe she must believe, Carlos, that
Speaker 3: it is persuasive for her to stand in receiving the consequences.
Speaker 3: Because let's be clear, we all know victim shaming is real.
Speaker 3: We've already all seen it already on the internet. It
Speaker 3: relates to her testimony. Sound like she wanted it, sound
Speaker 3: like she liked it, sound like she deserved it. Why
Speaker 3: she stay okay? So she knew she would be receiving
Speaker 3: that she's not a dummy.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: She's saying, even with that coming my way as I
Speaker 3: carry my third child in uterow okay, and that's important.
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna be personal, Carlos, as a woman that
Speaker 3: just gave birth nine months ago. What we know scientifically
Speaker 3: now is that the neuro system of the mother of
Speaker 3: the gestational carrier directly impacts.
Speaker 4: The fetus and the child. So you better know that that.
Speaker 3: I'm sure her doctor told her you withdrawing withstanding, rather
Speaker 3: that level of stress and emotional turmoil while your baby
Speaker 3: is still in final development, is you're paying a price, okay.
Speaker 3: And she decided to pay that price on behalf of
Speaker 3: the fact that she felt it was so necessary that
Speaker 3: while this case is not being televised, that's why none
Speaker 3: of us have seen actual photos of anybody, including Sean Holmes.
Speaker 4: What have we seen, Carlos these drawings at miss right.
Speaker 3: She's still saying, people, I want them to know my name,
Speaker 3: I want them to know that this is me, Cassandra Ventura,
Speaker 3: and I'm telling what happened to me, and I'm telling
Speaker 3: my truth.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: Why is the abuse and the freak offs and the
Speaker 3: violent behavior in the freak offs. So important that we
Speaker 3: know these details because the government, Carlos, is arguing that
Speaker 3: all of that creates their case to argue conspiracy and racketeering.
Speaker 3: So two things about that, right, So that's why when
Speaker 3: I read I took the time to read this that
Speaker 3: you know what they're alleging In the first complaint, in
Speaker 3: the first indictment, they're saying, part of what because racketeering, Okay,
Speaker 3: that what does that mean? That means criminal enterprise at play.
Speaker 3: That's why we think of mafia when we hear Rico.
Speaker 2: Is that the reason why the FED.
Speaker 1: Ransack his Beverly Hills a stay and took and and
Speaker 1: did the investigation, allegedly took guns and all that stuff because.
Speaker 3: And all at the same time, because when you're dealing
Speaker 3: with a Rico, a racketeering conspiracy, that means you've got
Speaker 3: multiple players, if you will, multiple agents with different tasks
Speaker 3: of executing the criminal activity. And that means if I'm
Speaker 3: in Miami and I'm a part of the Combs enterprise,
Speaker 3: alleged criminal enterprise, and I'm and I see the cops
Speaker 3: coming or the Homeland Security in this case, coming, and
Speaker 3: what am I gonna do? I'm gonna text Carlos King,
Speaker 3: who's at the LA spot and he's also a part
Speaker 3: of the and I'm gonna say, hey, hey, Carlos, they're
Speaker 3: they just came in on us in Miami get rid
Speaker 3: of all the evidence in La so in an effort
Speaker 3: to avoid the destruction of evidence, the collaboration of people trying.
Speaker 4: To get their stories straightened together.
Speaker 3: This is how the the you know, the the This
Speaker 3: is how they they let they put you on notice
Speaker 3: right that that they're they're closing in on you, and
Speaker 3: they do it in that simultaneous way. It was not
Speaker 3: very different than what we saw with r. Kelly or
Speaker 3: where he had Atlanta charges, but he also had Chicago.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: This is what the rico of it all comes into play,
Speaker 3: multiple different pockets, most of the time in different places,
Speaker 3: but all working in concert. That's a legal term, working
Speaker 3: in concert, Carlos, meaning together for the execution of a
Speaker 3: shared criminal agenda.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And part of that one more thing, because I'm sorry
Speaker 3: to keep talking about I want to yeah. And and
Speaker 3: they're saying that part of the criminal activity was the abuse,
Speaker 3: was the kicking, punching, dragging of women. That's a part
Speaker 3: of what they were conspiring, Because what are we conspiring
Speaker 3: to do if we're just if we're conspiring.
Speaker 4: To make red kool aid, that's not a crime. We
Speaker 4: can do that, Carlos. But if we're.
Speaker 3: Conspiring to punch and kick people, that's criminal. Now we're
Speaker 3: conspiring to commit a crime. So you've got to articulate
Speaker 3: before you can get to the conspiracy, because that's what
Speaker 3: everybody on social media that I'm hearing and reading and
Speaker 3: listening and traveling, you and your raindrops too. Where's the rico?
Speaker 3: Where's the conspiracy? Okay, domestic violence? I see that, got it.
Speaker 3: He's out on trial for that. Where is the conspiracy?
Speaker 3: The rico, the racketeering, and the working in concert, the
Speaker 3: collusion if you will, you cannot collude by yourself. So
Speaker 3: but I'm thinking that the prosecution has made a tactical
Speaker 3: decision here, Carlos, and a strategic decision to say, oh,
Speaker 3: we're gonna get to the various members of Sean Combs's enterprise,
Speaker 3: whether they be because they worked for bad Boy at
Speaker 3: a time, or they were his personal assistant, or maybe
Speaker 3: they were security guards, or maybe they were drivers, or
Speaker 3: maybe they were Heaven Forbid executives of some sort a
Speaker 3: you know, the various business entities that he controlled, because
Speaker 3: this is all about him being in control of all
Speaker 3: these people and various enterprise. But before we get to that,
Speaker 3: we we're gonna take our time in slow walk what
Speaker 3: the criminal activity itself was, and it was the physical abuse.
Speaker 3: They're gonna eventually they're go. They kind of are starting
Speaker 3: to allude to the Arson. So we heard in today
Speaker 3: day three testimony the reference to Kid Cuddy okay, who
Speaker 3: at one time was a boyfriend, a short term boyfriend
Speaker 3: of Cassie, I think around twenty eleven, she says, when
Speaker 3: her and Shaan Colmes were on the rocks, Sean colmebs
Speaker 3: catches with of this relationship between Cassie and Cutty, threatens
Speaker 3: to harm both of them. She says, she at some
Speaker 3: point calls Key Cutty. He pulls up on the on
Speaker 3: the curve, picks her up, takes her to his home.
Speaker 3: At some point she goes anyways, and and Sean Holmes says,
Speaker 3: I'm going to blow his car up. So that's Arson.
Speaker 3: That that that that would be a threat of arson, okay.
Speaker 3: And then, as per The New York Times, Kid Cuddy
Speaker 3: confirmed that some days after that threat of arson was made,
Speaker 3: his car indeed exploded in the driveway. So this is
Speaker 3: where the government is pulling that fact of Okay, part
Speaker 3: of the criminal activity was the arson. Part of the
Speaker 3: criminal activity was the physical abuse. Uh, let's get to
Speaker 3: the freak offs because you asked about it, Carlos. Part
Speaker 3: of the criminal activity was sexual at sexual sex, sexual activity,
Speaker 3: sexual behavior, but not done voluntarily. She talked about on
Speaker 3: the witness stand today. Many people were shot. She said
Speaker 3: she was rape She used the rape word, Carlos. She said,
Speaker 3: Sean Holmes raped me after some event and she said
Speaker 3: he had dark eyes, his eyes were blacked out, and
Speaker 3: he raped her. Okay, So that would be criminal activity.
Speaker 3: And if the prosecution can prove Carlos that other people
Speaker 3: were involved in the execution of him being able to
Speaker 3: rape her, and this could be simple. This could be
Speaker 3: as simple as his driver taking him to the destination
Speaker 3: where the rape occurred, if the driver had knowledge that
Speaker 3: Shawn Holmes was going there with the intention to commit
Speaker 3: a crime, to do something illegal. Because now we're conspiring,
Speaker 3: I'm helping you execute criminal activity.
Speaker 4: That would make me a co conspirator.
Speaker 2: Is it starting to it? Really is child.
Speaker 1: We are just getting started. This is reality with the King,
Speaker 1: and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show.
Speaker 2: Is it starting up? Yeah, No, it really is.
Speaker 1: Because one of the questions that a lot of people
Speaker 1: had ebony is sort of the salaciousness of the details
Speaker 1: that Cassie's providing in her testimony. But now it all
Speaker 1: makes sense because what we are hearing are some very
Speaker 1: silations details that is Cassie's truth, which is the sort
Speaker 1: of escort she had to be with.
Speaker 2: She's been cross examined.
Speaker 1: About whether or not it was elective or was she
Speaker 1: forced to do it.
Speaker 3: Let's let's be easy on that word cross exam, Carlos,
Speaker 3: because it's very important.
Speaker 4: We're gonna get to right. This is still direct exam.
Speaker 4: But you're right, he's being questioned.
Speaker 2: She's been question No, that's why your hair. I'm not
Speaker 2: the legal ease, but thank you for that.
Speaker 1: She is being questioned whether or not it was forced
Speaker 1: or she's being questioned if it was elective.
Speaker 2: Some of the things that people are saying because.
Speaker 1: I want to know if media is going to play
Speaker 1: a role in this, or is the sort of details
Speaker 1: of the story going to color it for the jury.
Speaker 1: So when we hear things like the sort of and
Speaker 1: this is obviously you know it's explicit, but I'll say
Speaker 1: the proper words, ejaculation that occurred doing a freak off,
Speaker 1: and allegedly she had to take that and wipe it
Speaker 1: on puff nipples as his way of having a satisfaction.
Speaker 1: They talked about one escort urinating in her mouth. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me why these very specific details are important.
Speaker 1: Is it to paint the picture of what Cassie had
Speaker 1: to endure or is it to really show that what
Speaker 1: you said earlier, we are giving you step by step
Speaker 1: leading into the ultimate racketeering. Recall all those things sex trafficking.
Speaker 1: So we gotta be as detail as possible.
Speaker 3: It's both, So let me start with where you just landed.
Speaker 3: They have to be as detailed as possible. How dare
Speaker 3: any prosecutor, because don't forget Carlos. As much as I'm
Speaker 3: making the case and laying out the facts, I am
Speaker 3: a criminal defense lawyer by trade.
Speaker 4: That's what I did for a living.
Speaker 3: I was first a public defender and then I was
Speaker 3: a private lawyer for a defendants. So how dare a
Speaker 3: prosecutor come in my face and try to convict my
Speaker 3: client without specificity, period, that would be a gas to
Speaker 3: the law. So they are required to be as absolutely
Speaker 3: specific as available. So if there is a specific fact,
Speaker 3: whether it's urine in a pool, whether it's twenty five
Speaker 3: bottles of baby oil, whether it's the ejaculation you're urinating
Speaker 3: to the point where she can't breathe and it's choking.
Speaker 3: That we heard about the U T I s and
Speaker 3: cole sores. She yeah, I went into all of that.
Speaker 3: They must give us those details. But to your earlier
Speaker 3: instinct because this is these are your instincts.
Speaker 4: They're producing too.
Speaker 3: They're painting the picture they're showing you with with fine
Speaker 3: detail and broad stroke. This is a monster. Sean Colmes
Speaker 3: is a monster and he and there was and he
Speaker 3: was so depraved. See, this is the psychology of the process.
Speaker 3: See psychology is a big part of this because when
Speaker 3: we talk about the crime of coercion, Okay, and I'm gonna,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna. I know we're running out of time for
Speaker 3: this week. This is a great series, by the way,
Speaker 3: So rain Drops, Carlos King has gifted you, honey, to
Speaker 3: be able to get this in this level of detail
Speaker 3: and expertise on a weekly basis as this case continues.
Speaker 4: This is this is a gift.
Speaker 2: Okay, because I can only do this with you, so
Speaker 2: thank you, so much.
Speaker 3: So happy to do it because it's important. I want
Speaker 3: our culture to understand what's happening here. I want the
Speaker 3: culture to Carlos. This is more than just the man
Speaker 3: coming for a black successful man in America.
Speaker 4: This is more than that. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3: Race doesn't play apart, We'll get to that eventually, but
Speaker 3: this is bigger than that. So when we talk about coercion,
Speaker 3: we're talking about the sex act happened. We know that
Speaker 3: these sex acts with Cassie Sean Combs and male escorts
Speaker 3: and others happened. That is not disputed. Here's what's in dispute,
Speaker 3: Carlos King, and this is where this case will turn
Speaker 3: or fail. Can the prosecution make the case convincingly to
Speaker 3: not one, two, or three, but twelve different men and
Speaker 3: women That behavior rose to the level of by force
Speaker 3: and unwillingness. So that's why you keep hearing even her
Speaker 3: own prosecution team, who she's their witness, right asking her
Speaker 3: did you feel free to leave? That's very important. And
Speaker 3: when she says something like not really. Now, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: tell you, as a defense lawyer, I'm happy to hear that,
Speaker 3: because I'm gonna go in on that. When cross examination
Speaker 3: time does come, and it is coming as soon as
Speaker 3: the prosecution Carlos is completely done with their examination. We
Speaker 3: call that direct exam. I expect her to be on
Speaker 3: the on the stand another day, if not two more days.
Speaker 3: You might even go into next week. Don't be surprised.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Wow.
Speaker 3: Once they're done, they're gonna have to say defense your witness,
Speaker 3: and then that's when they gonna get into her. They're
Speaker 3: going to try to destroy her credibility. They're gonna try
Speaker 3: to make her the biggest slut that ever lived. They're
Speaker 3: gonna try to make her desperate for fame. They're gonna
Speaker 3: try to make her completely thirsty. And some of these
Speaker 3: things might apply.
Speaker 2: Hell, we don't know.
Speaker 4: We weren't there, So those are gonna be the arguments.
Speaker 3: But the main one they're gonna argue is, well, back
Speaker 3: when the when the government asked you, miss Ventura, did
Speaker 3: you feel you had to do those things? You responded,
Speaker 3: it was the only way I could spend time with him.
Speaker 3: And then those twelve jurors, Carlos King are gonna have
Speaker 3: to decide for themselves individually. Do I think that's coercion?
Speaker 3: Do I think when Sean Combs says, if you were
Speaker 3: to believe the testimony, when Shan Combs says, if you don't,
Speaker 3: if this prostitute man I flew in from wherever for
Speaker 3: the freak off that you know that's how we get
Speaker 3: down and you know that's how you and my lady,
Speaker 3: and you know that's how you get my time and attention,
Speaker 3: and you want that And if you don't do it
Speaker 3: right now tonight, I'm gonna release these sex tapes for
Speaker 3: all the world to see.
Speaker 4: Juror says, is that force.
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: Is that Sean Comb's enforcing overt willpower over her such
Speaker 3: that she doesn't feel free to say no to it.
Speaker 4: That's the question of this case.
Speaker 2: Abony K.
Speaker 1: Williams that, first of all, that's that was powerful in
Speaker 1: the sense of really understanding the magnitude of this case,
Speaker 1: the dynamic of this case, the sensitivity. You know, and
Speaker 1: we watch a lot of court shows, movies and all
Speaker 1: that stuff, but what we always know is when you
Speaker 1: say something like you said, the defence can take that
Speaker 1: one SoundBite and paint a different picture for the Jewors.
Speaker 2: So what we did learn today is.
Speaker 1: Cassie accepted the twenty million dollars settlement from Puff. When
Speaker 1: she and her legal team revealed to all of us
Speaker 1: last year what she was going two years Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's like yesterday, two years ago. What is so interesting
Speaker 1: about that to me is this, I would love to
Speaker 1: get your legal education educate us on this.
Speaker 2: Excuse me.
Speaker 1: It was said today that she was writing a book
Speaker 1: and was going to release it and she gave him
Speaker 1: a heads up. Did she ask for a did Cassie
Speaker 1: ask for money in order to not release the book?
Speaker 1: Did he say no? Did she then release what she
Speaker 1: went through publicly? And then did he settle with her
Speaker 1: less than twenty four hours after that?
Speaker 3: So my understanding of the facts based off of the
Speaker 3: reporting that I've been able to get, because that's all
Speaker 3: we can get. You know, unless you're in the press pool.
Speaker 3: Actually there is no press pool, so unless you're in
Speaker 3: the courtroom. Really, from per my reporting, this is the
Speaker 3: order Carlos. She writes the book, shows it to her
Speaker 3: mother said her intention with writing the book is ultimately
Speaker 3: for Sean Combs to see it, and she hopes it
Speaker 3: brings remorse, so she then contacts him through his team. Specifically,
Speaker 3: she names kk Okay in a sense a high level
Speaker 3: assistant to Sean Colmes, and says, get him these chapters.
Speaker 3: This happens, someone from his team offers thirty million dollars.
Speaker 3: So it's my understanding, Carlos that she didn't necessarily ask,
Speaker 3: because that would be the height of extortion. Quite frankly, now,
Speaker 3: she would be stepping into criminal territory, Carlos. Baby, if
Speaker 3: I say, look at these pictures I got to you, Carlos,
Speaker 3: and all it takes for me not to show them
Speaker 3: to the world is thirty thousand dollars, I've extorted you
Speaker 3: at that point. Now this is not about you anymore.
Speaker 3: Now it's about me and my criminal activity of extortion.
Speaker 3: So I didn't get that. She said, hey, here are
Speaker 3: the chapters, read them and weep. Give me thirty million
Speaker 3: and I'll make them go away.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3: She wrote the chapters, She previewed them by sending them
Speaker 3: to him, and his team read them. They read them
Speaker 3: and said, we will give you thirty million to make
Speaker 3: this whole thing go away. And then at some point.
Speaker 3: I think that was kind of tabled, if you will.
Speaker 3: I have to believe, because before every civil suit is filed,
Speaker 3: there's normally always pre trial conversations with the or pre
Speaker 3: filing conversations, I should say, between the lawyers. So I
Speaker 3: have to believe. Cassie's civil lawyer, So this is not
Speaker 3: the government or the FEDS. This is her personal civil
Speaker 3: lawyer that took her case on retainer knowing that if
Speaker 3: they were successful in recovering anything, he would he or
Speaker 3: she would get a third Okay, how that's how those
Speaker 3: deals work.
Speaker 4: M hm, and you take it on.
Speaker 3: That's a contingency deal typical of a civil case. They
Speaker 3: went to Seaan Colmebs and his team and said, hey,
Speaker 3: we're about to file this suit, and they probably gave
Speaker 3: them maybe not everything that was in the suit, Carlos,
Speaker 3: but a lot of it. You know, the key Cudding
Speaker 3: I'm sure was in it. I'm sure the hotel incident
Speaker 3: was in it, because they knew they had that videotape
Speaker 3: to pull from and say, hey, if you don't make
Speaker 3: our client hole in some way fiscally right now, we're
Speaker 3: going to take this and file it and it's going
Speaker 3: to be a public record and then the public can
Speaker 3: figure it out. And Shawn comes Is team you know,
Speaker 3: said we'll go do it, and they went and did it.
Speaker 3: November twenty twenty three, and twenty four hours later, the
Speaker 3: twenty million dollar settlement happened. I have to believe that
Speaker 3: Sean Combs thought that Cassie was still in such a
Speaker 3: state of humiliation and grief and trauma that she would
Speaker 3: never want the world to know that about her because
Speaker 3: that was his. And that actually goes to the prosecution.
Speaker 3: Going back now to the criminal elements required for this
Speaker 3: current case we're on Carlos, that sounds a little bit
Speaker 3: like the coursive tactic that was maybe at play to
Speaker 3: silence his alleged victim.
Speaker 4: Certainly, you wouldn't want anybody to know that you were
Speaker 4: drowning in p literally.
Speaker 3: Certainly you wouldn't want anybody to know that you had
Speaker 3: STDs and UTIs and coal sores. And certainly you wouldn't
Speaker 3: want the America and the world to see you as
Speaker 3: such a.
Speaker 4: Tragic horrors figure. I'm just saying, you know.
Speaker 2: What they Yeah, and then that.
Speaker 3: Type of psycho that's the psychological warfare that can absolutely
Speaker 3: Carlos be a part of coercion, making you feel you
Speaker 3: cannot say no, making you feel you cannot tell, making
Speaker 3: you feel you can't as every many people in the
Speaker 3: common well just leave, just run away. Well, if she
Speaker 3: feels that she runs away, you're gonna release the tape,
Speaker 3: or she feels if she tells, you're going to make
Speaker 3: it so bad for her that she can't get a
Speaker 3: record deal in the industry. That's what the prosecution is
Speaker 3: ultimately going to lead us to by way of the
Speaker 3: coercion argument. And then if you bring in more people
Speaker 3: to enforce the coersion, like oh, my man's gonna make
Speaker 3: sure that all the DJs and such and such that
Speaker 3: they don't never play none of your shit, My my
Speaker 3: my girl and her girl's gonna make sure no producers
Speaker 3: work with you in the industry, All of that can
Speaker 3: be made you. These are hypotheticals rain drops, But I'm
Speaker 3: saying this is what corrosion could look like, and that
Speaker 3: also would be getting working in concert, conspiring. That is
Speaker 3: what conspiracy could look like. To execute the corision. We
Speaker 3: can conspire carlos to work together to execute coercion, just
Speaker 3: like we can conspire to work together to execute physical abuse.
Speaker 3: Just like we can conspire to work together to execute kidnapping.
Speaker 3: Get in this car right now, or I'm gonna release
Speaker 3: the tapes. That's corision, and kidnapping could be because you're
Speaker 3: forcing me into a space I don't want. I'm not
Speaker 3: voluntarily in. Or you're not letting me leave your home.
Speaker 3: I'm not free to leave because of the force of
Speaker 3: will and threat, you're imparting my way. But then that's
Speaker 3: why it's twelve jurors, because another juror can hear all
Speaker 3: of that, is say, yeah, it sounds real bad, but
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's bad.
Speaker 4: Enough that you just couldn't free yourself.
Speaker 3: And that's why these cases are very interesting, and that's
Speaker 3: why there's twelve differ and people on that jury box.
Speaker 1: And for the record, if Pop would have settled initially,
Speaker 1: none of this would be happening.
Speaker 3: I don't believe you listened to holding court enough. I
Speaker 3: don't believe that I'm just messing with you. I don't
Speaker 3: believe we would be here talking. None of it is today,
Speaker 3: I think all if we are to believe the majority
Speaker 3: of what Cassie has said thus far consistently by the way,
Speaker 3: which gives her some credibility in my personal book and
Speaker 3: my legal one, I believe all this young lady really
Speaker 3: really wanted was acknowledgment, acknowledgment that what she endured was
Speaker 3: beyond the pale, beyond scope.
Speaker 4: She didn't deserve it, and it was wrong.
Speaker 3: And I think had she gotten that acknowledgment Carlos by
Speaker 3: way of the twenty million doc, because frankly, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: tell you, I was shocked to hear it was only
Speaker 3: twenty million dollars today. I thought, for sure did it
Speaker 3: was upwards of fifty million dollars because the demand was
Speaker 3: I think in the seventies. I think it was around
Speaker 3: seventy something million. May I think if she had gotten
Speaker 3: her twenty million dollar check, which is some form of
Speaker 3: acknowledgment of culpability, not legally legally, it's not that at all,
Speaker 3: but I believe that most people that receive a check
Speaker 3: feel that way.
Speaker 2: Alive.
Speaker 3: Gretchen Carlson from Roger L's, with the fox of it all,
Speaker 3: I was there for that, you know.
Speaker 4: I think that that.
Speaker 3: Probably would have satisfied enough of her desire desired outcome.
Speaker 3: When it came to the alleged behavior, it wasn't done
Speaker 3: the lawsuit was fired. At that point, she had nothing
Speaker 3: else to lose. We already knew her name, We already
Speaker 3: knew it was her. We already knew she had gotten
Speaker 3: beaten and drugged and raped and participated, whether voluntary or
Speaker 3: not voluntary, We know she had participated in some extraordinarily salacious, vile,
Speaker 3: you know, unconscionable activities. So at that point, I think
Speaker 3: it became game on, so to speak. And so now
Speaker 3: let's cooperate with the prosecution and let's move all the
Speaker 3: pieces on the chessboard for civil and criminal. And that's
Speaker 3: why we're talking about the case today.
Speaker 2: Last question for you.
Speaker 1: We see that his teenage daughters are there that he
Speaker 1: had with the Lake Importer and Sarah Chapman and Sarah
Speaker 1: Chapman thank you. Sarah's their daughter together named Chance. We
Speaker 1: see his his first child's mother, Missa Hilton, who's with
Speaker 1: the Walker, show up. His mom showed up, his sons
Speaker 1: show up, his his his his theen weren't married. So
Speaker 1: his bonus son, Christian, yes, son, I'll be sure, showed up.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it was important for the defense
Speaker 1: to bring in his family? But importantly, his very young
Speaker 1: teenage daughters who I read. No, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's true, but I've read that the information Cassie speaking
Speaker 1: about obviously is so severe that his teenage daughters.
Speaker 2: Had to lead the room. Why are they even be
Speaker 2: in the first place.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked this on the way out,
Speaker 3: because I had some thoughts around this. So conventional wisdom
Speaker 3: tells us as lawyers, right, especially defense lawyers, that we
Speaker 3: want to humanize and sympathize our clients to the best
Speaker 3: of our ability, and that's good legal advice and skill.
Speaker 4: That is true.
Speaker 3: It's the reason that you saw Rihanna and Asab Rocky's
Speaker 3: two little baby cute sons in court on his verdict day.
Speaker 3: Here's the difference, though, So that's the why, that's the
Speaker 3: theory around why they would be there in the first place.
Speaker 4: To answer your question.
Speaker 3: Here's where it's problematic for me as both an attorney
Speaker 3: and a human being. Quite frankly, and now as a parent. Okay,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm ajuror looking at especially like
Speaker 3: you said, the three youngest girls, right, It's one thing
Speaker 3: Justin's thirty one years old. We could argue he's a
Speaker 3: grown man, Christian I believe at some point these are
Speaker 3: older children. Okay, so I think you can make the
Speaker 3: argument that they could stomach hearing a lot of this.
Speaker 3: I think when you're talking about these young teenage still girls,
Speaker 3: I'm now questioning the wisdom of you understanding what best
Speaker 3: interest of the child means, and that should always be
Speaker 3: our north star as parents period. We should always only
Speaker 3: be doing what is in the best interest of our children.
Speaker 4: So while I understand.
Speaker 3: A legal theory or impulse to show, look how great
Speaker 3: of a father he must be for these kids to
Speaker 3: be in the galley supporting him, look at how great
Speaker 3: of an ex husband he must be, or not husband
Speaker 3: because he never married a motherfucker, But look at how
Speaker 3: great of an ex boyfriend or baby daddy or great son.
Speaker 4: Because it is Jenis Colmbs in the courtroom, I believe
Speaker 4: she was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, so look at who's showing up
Speaker 3: for him. I understand that, Carlos, But if I'm on
Speaker 3: this jury, I'm also wondering, well, damn, are you that
Speaker 3: self centered?
Speaker 4: Selfish?
Speaker 3: And either that or so unaware of the innate trauma
Speaker 3: that is inherent when your daughters, Whether you did it
Speaker 3: or not irrelevant, Actually that your daughters are having to
Speaker 3: bear witness and be in an environment so traumatic, so dark,
Speaker 3: so toxic. I would think, even if you did nothing wrong,
Speaker 3: mister Combs, you would think so much of your responsibility
Speaker 3: to your teenage daughters to protect them from such testimony.
Speaker 3: And the fact that you between those two choices, because
Speaker 3: we all have choices, Carlos, you and your legal team said, nah,
Speaker 3: we feel it's more important for the jury to see
Speaker 3: these girls and try to sympathize with Sean Comes, our client,
Speaker 3: and then to protect the emotional wellbeing, the psychological stability
Speaker 3: of these very formative young girls, these young girls, Carlos,
Speaker 3: who are in this very moment shaping their understanding of sexuality,
Speaker 3: their understanding of consent, their understanding of body autonomy, their
Speaker 3: understanding of their own ability to say yes no to
Speaker 3: certain So I would actually to me, this was a
Speaker 3: miss on the defense for the three young daughters. Now
Speaker 3: the older sons, the mama get yes. Because God knows,
Speaker 3: hardly anybody from the industry has said a motherfucking thing
Speaker 3: on behalf of Shawn Colmbs in positivity or defense to
Speaker 3: be noted. Okay, just something to note. So showing your
Speaker 3: family and support. Yeah, let's make you human. That's why
Speaker 3: he got those sweaters on every day in court versus
Speaker 3: the power suit. You know, that's why you know they've
Speaker 3: got him. I think Sunny Houston said on the view,
Speaker 3: he's looking like mister Rogers, you know. Yeah, absolute the glasses.
Speaker 3: What you doing with them glasses on? Carlo and I'm
Speaker 3: just playing with you.
Speaker 2: Nah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw this with the Menandaz brothers, you know,
Speaker 3: thirty years ago. Let's try to humanize and soften the defendant.
Speaker 3: Got it cool, Every good defense lawyer does it. I
Speaker 3: did it too with my clients. But these young girls
Speaker 3: are very tender, They're very vulnerable, They're very impressionable, and
Speaker 3: I would think a good father that cares about their
Speaker 3: interests would protect them at all costs, even if he
Speaker 3: was completely factually innocent.
Speaker 4: You take my we.
Speaker 3: Saw this in a time to kill, you know, take
Speaker 3: take her out.
Speaker 4: Of this courtroom.
Speaker 2: Samuel L.
Speaker 3: Jackson didn't want his daughter's fictitious but you know, didn't
Speaker 3: want his daughter to see that he and he was taught.
Speaker 4: He ended up getting not guilty.
Speaker 3: But there's certain things a good parent wants to protect
Speaker 3: their child from. So I think the call on This
Speaker 3: looked selfish, it looked contrived, and it looked desperate.
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, Emney K Williams, I mean, listen, there's more
Speaker 1: to come.
Speaker 2: Ebony will be joining me next week to recap. Like
Speaker 2: she said this, this trial is.
Speaker 1: Going on for quite a while and on True Crime
Speaker 1: Thursdays with MBUK Williams, we will be breaking down the
Speaker 1: cage now, Ebony, we're before I let you go again.
Speaker 4: Oh oh, I know you're busy.
Speaker 2: I know that you have been doing your homework.
Speaker 1: You are everywhere when it comes to all the things
Speaker 1: you have going on. Not sure if you heard the news,
Speaker 1: but there's been so much controversy, not sipping.
Speaker 2: Surrounding your former show, The Real Housewives of New York City.
Speaker 1: Long story short, The network release their upcoming shows, and
Speaker 1: two notable shows were not on that release, and it
Speaker 1: was The Real Housewives of New Jersey but also New
Speaker 1: York City. Page six two days afterwards ran a report
Speaker 1: that The Real Housewives of New York City was actually
Speaker 1: allegedly camps old and was not going to come back
Speaker 1: in the foreseeable future. Bravo has since then said the
Speaker 1: show is not canceled and that there's still in the
Speaker 1: casting process, Bethany Frankel did a TikTok radio child make
Speaker 1: up Free Honey and talked about being an end of
Speaker 1: an era and what the what the show was and
Speaker 1: due to her words, not my Ebany K Williams, but
Speaker 1: due to the decision of not sticking with the original cast,
Speaker 1: was the demise of this show. Now Bravo has said
Speaker 1: it's not canceled.
Speaker 2: We'll let it.
Speaker 1: Get your thoughts on every single aspect of this.
Speaker 3: You are you, You're good. Carlos, You're very good. You're
Speaker 3: what you do, My brother absolute you. Okay, So my my,
Speaker 3: my high level take is this. I think it's for
Speaker 3: the best. If this, I think it's for the best.
Speaker 3: If the show does not come back right now, I
Speaker 3: think it might be for the best if the show
Speaker 3: does not come back. Ever, and contrary to some interpretation,
Speaker 3: it's not sour grapes. Let me tell you why I
Speaker 3: say that. I say that because Roney seasons roughly one
Speaker 3: through twelve, So this is before my arrival, when the
Speaker 3: cast was homogeneously white. For most people, most viewers of
Speaker 3: the show was extraordinarily enjoyable. It had its moments of
Speaker 3: you know, darkness, with lu Anne and her drinking and
Speaker 3: some other different things, but generally speaking, Ronnie was a cultural,
Speaker 3: lexicon enjoyable platform show. It also got a lot of heat,
Speaker 3: as you know, The New York Times did a whole
Speaker 3: article on not just Ronie, but Ronnie and all of
Speaker 3: the housewived shows, basically indicting all of the white shows
Speaker 3: for being all white shows in cities. Now it's one
Speaker 3: thing of your all white show in Idaho where there's
Speaker 3: next to no black population.
Speaker 4: But at some point.
Speaker 3: People started scratching their heads and really wondering, why is
Speaker 3: a city with twenty five percent black population and twenty
Speaker 3: six percent Latina population outlat of New York City, why
Speaker 3: is it an exclusively white cast. The network heard the call,
Speaker 3: they casted me to be the first black woman on
Speaker 3: the cast. And what ensued was, to put it mildly,
Speaker 3: Carlos and you know, we've talked about this at nauseum,
Speaker 3: but it was, it was, it was.
Speaker 4: It was horrific.
Speaker 3: It was horrific at very high levels. Without going into
Speaker 3: all of the details. What I think was most horrific
Speaker 3: about it, and why I think it was so horrific
Speaker 3: and traumatic, was because when we're talking about the premise
Speaker 3: of housewives in general. Right, let's boom out for a second.
Speaker 3: And you know this better than anybody because you are
Speaker 3: the golden touch, okay of what this franchise when it's
Speaker 3: at its best. You we were there, come about Atlanta, Okay,
Speaker 3: and I think Jersey too, you produced.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you.
Speaker 3: I would say, I don't care when nobody says, I
Speaker 3: would say, of all the franchise, those two in your
Speaker 3: era were peak housewives. When we look back in twenty
Speaker 3: years and forty years and we say what shifted culture indefinitely,
Speaker 3: it will be the Teresa table flip and the knee
Speaker 3: leaks of it all. Okay, close your legs to married men.
Speaker 3: That those those types of moments, right, Okay, we can agree, agreed,
Speaker 3: But what we're talking about in all these housewives, themes
Speaker 3: entertaining on the basis of exploring wealth, money, class and society.
Speaker 4: Is that a fair statement? Okay?
Speaker 3: And here's what nobody really wanted to admit and still
Speaker 3: really want admit when it comes to real Housewives of
Speaker 3: New York City or and we saw a little bit
Speaker 3: of it with Beverly Yiels, I would say a lot
Speaker 3: of it with Beverly Hills. I think that's why our
Speaker 3: good friend Garcela's not there. Now, when you start talking
Speaker 3: about class and social standing and status, you're innately having
Speaker 3: a race conversation.
Speaker 4: You might not be doing it verbally.
Speaker 3: You might not be saying, well, white women are here,
Speaker 3: and black women are there, and white white girls are
Speaker 3: this and and they're this level of beauty, and they're
Speaker 3: this level of success, and the black girls are down here.
Speaker 3: But it's baked into the cake. All you got to
Speaker 3: do is read Isabelle Wilkinson's Cast or any other number
Speaker 3: of great books that break down the innate social hierarchy
Speaker 3: as it relates to America's cast system. We're not that
Speaker 3: different than India, Carlos. Okay, there are assigned perceived slots
Speaker 3: of the social order. And I don't care if you're
Speaker 3: in New York or Beverly Hills. Okay, being black by
Speaker 3: definition disqualifies you from sitting atop that social order, per
Speaker 3: this framework that I'm describing. So when you put a
Speaker 3: black woman on a cast with all white women or
Speaker 3: mostly white women, it doesn't matter her beauty. In Garcell's case,
Speaker 3: her distinguished an uncomparable resume in her business from the movies,
Speaker 3: to the series, to all the things. It doesn't matter
Speaker 3: her pedigree, it doesn't matter anything. But because she is black,
Speaker 3: that is such a challenge to her castmate and to
Speaker 3: many of the viewers Carlos to see her as truly
Speaker 3: equal and equitable in terms of the social order of
Speaker 3: the other women. And this was exacerbated on Roni because
Speaker 3: these women, you know, kind of the more challenge they
Speaker 3: are on the traditional roles of like education or pedigree,
Speaker 3: or let's look at my cast look, look look at
Speaker 3: the women. I was on the show with Ramona Luyne Sonya.
Speaker 3: Sonya married well, Leuanne married pretty well. But that's not
Speaker 3: their pedigree, that none of them come from it. So
Speaker 3: the strongest piece of social currency they each held was
Speaker 3: what whiteness. This is sociology one on one, okay. So
Speaker 3: when whiteness is the thing that you that you hold
Speaker 3: and society has told you makes you most special and
Speaker 3: most valuable and most qualified and deserving of sitting atop
Speaker 3: the social order of your society, you're you're gonna be
Speaker 3: extremely threatened, put off, and dismissive and halfway disgusted by
Speaker 3: a person of black race identity. Infiltrating that trying to
Speaker 3: come in and participate in that Heaven forbid in some ways,
Speaker 3: superseding you educationally, youth wise, beauty wise, all of these things.
Speaker 3: So the long and short of it is this, Carlos,
Speaker 3: those New York as it relates Toroni, it was always
Speaker 3: going to and don't Just so for those that want
Speaker 3: to say, yeah, it was just you, Ebany, you were
Speaker 3: too much, you were too strong, that's fine. I'll totally
Speaker 3: I'll take that projection because that's exactly what it is
Speaker 3: and I'll take it.
Speaker 4: So that's it.
Speaker 1: Those are my thoughts, ladies, jentlemen, gays and bays being
Speaker 1: comparable Ebony, Kay william I mean, there's nothing.
Speaker 2: Else that we said after that. My drop for my
Speaker 2: girl and y'all.
Speaker 1: She's coming back next week for another roundup of what's
Speaker 1: happening with the Diddy trial f Mek Williams. I thank
Speaker 1: you so much and I'll see you next week.
Speaker 4: See you next week.
Speaker 3: Love by rain Drops by Carlos.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Reality with the Kings.
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Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcast.
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Speaker 1: the King is a production of Kingdom Rain Entertainment, an
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Carlos King, Kingdom Rain Entertainment, Baby,