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Speaker 1: Welcome to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos Kings,

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Speaker 1: the King of Reality TV and one of the most

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Speaker 1: sought after executive producers in reality television with over ten

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Speaker 1: years a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with

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Speaker 1: the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit un

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Speaker 1: forgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about.

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Speaker 2: Hey, rain drops.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode of Reality with the King, we have

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Speaker 1: to talk about all things reality television, but we also

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Speaker 1: got to talk about all things that are happening in

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Speaker 1: the reality of the world. In this particular case, both

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Speaker 1: are intersected because p Diddy was a reality star who

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Speaker 1: started making the band I want to work for Diddy,

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Speaker 1: And he did have a Sean Thomos show that was

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Speaker 1: going to come out this year, but it got canceled

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Speaker 1: due to everything going on. So welcome to True Crime

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Speaker 1: Thursdays Reality with the King Edition. And I cannot do

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Speaker 1: this alone, so I am here with my good friend

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Speaker 1: Legal Ego Honey. She is also a judge. She is

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Speaker 1: the host of.

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Speaker 2: The award winning podcast Holding Court.

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Speaker 1: So y'all know how I'm talking about the beautiful, the talented,

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Speaker 1: the amazing woman and mother that she is. Give it

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Speaker 1: up for Ebony K.

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Speaker 3: Williams rain Drops, Hello darlings, and the King. I salute you, honey.

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Speaker 3: Let's get into all of it. I like that framing though, too.

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Speaker 3: I like true crime. What are we doing true crime

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Speaker 3: Thursdays with the King?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? True crime Thursdays. Because the thing is this, I'm into.

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Speaker 1: All things true crime. I'm launching a new series that

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Speaker 1: is coming out in June, so stay tuned for that

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Speaker 1: is in a true crime space. But with this ditty

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Speaker 1: stuff happening, it hit me Ebany that it is the

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Speaker 1: intersection of true crime reality star because Puff was on.

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Speaker 2: Making the band.

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Speaker 1: I want to work for Diddy the four on Fox

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Speaker 1: that I worked on alongside him, DJ Calla and Meghan Trainer.

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Speaker 1: So I do want to get into a lot that's

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Speaker 1: been happening because what's going on in this case has

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Speaker 1: been the talk of the town for the past like

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Speaker 1: year year and a half. So to update everybody who

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Speaker 1: has been living under roped.

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Speaker 2: As you all know, Mediamogo, SEANP.

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Speaker 1: Ded Combs is in jail for allegedly because he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been found guilty for alleged crimes of sex trafficking.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's what he's in jail for.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: What has been happening for the past three days?

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Speaker 1: The trial has started and as of today's taping, we

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Speaker 1: are going to discuss the first couple of days of

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Speaker 1: the trial, and mie K Williams is going to update

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Speaker 1: us on exactly what's been happening.

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Speaker 2: So they want to trial his former girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Cassie Ventura, who is eight months pregnant, had to suffer

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Speaker 1: through being a witness in this case by talking about

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Speaker 1: some of the things she experienced, and I want Ebony.

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Speaker 2: To update us on all things going on. So Ebonie,

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Speaker 2: what is going on in this case and why is

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Speaker 2: Cassie a part of me? Because we saw.

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Speaker 1: The video where he physically harmed her at the lobby

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Speaker 1: of a hotel in the hallway. I'm sorry, but this

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Speaker 1: case is not about domestic violence. This case is about

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking. So can you educate us on what's been

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Speaker 1: going on and how Cassie is involved in this from

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Speaker 1: that arena?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so broad, Carlos. The magnitude of what we're

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Speaker 3: talking about by virtue of first of all, the magnitude

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Speaker 3: of Sean Diddy Combs. Right, we are his contemporary. We

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Speaker 3: were raised on the cultural impact of this man and

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Speaker 3: this entity, you know, because that is exactly what he is.

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Speaker 3: And put a pin in entity and enterprise because that's

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Speaker 3: actually part of this case.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So when we think all things music, but also fashion,

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Speaker 3: also liquor and spirits, also television, also h all the

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Speaker 3: things from every genre of the industry, there's nowhere you

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Speaker 3: can really go and Sean Combe's or bad boy or

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Speaker 3: sorock or some you know, Comb's enterprises doesn't touch it.

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Speaker 3: So let me start with that framing, just so folks

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Speaker 3: can really appreciate the magnitude of the defendant. It's hard

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Speaker 3: to equate it to anything, but think of the magnitude

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Speaker 3: of an O. J. Simpson where it was the NFL,

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Speaker 3: but it was hurts, it was uh naked just uh

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Speaker 3: was it naked whatever those movies were that he was on.

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Speaker 3: You know, yes, thank you think that for our generation, Okay,

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Speaker 3: And many people Carlos are going ahead and claiming this

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Speaker 3: case as the case of our century. You know, if

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Speaker 3: oj was the case of the twentieth century, this is

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Speaker 3: certainly the case thus far of the twenty first century,

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Speaker 3: and my legal peers are framing it that way. So

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Speaker 3: that sets the stage. Now let's go to the charges.

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Speaker 3: You correctly cited that one of the main because it's

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Speaker 3: really five major charges that are in this federal indictment,

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Speaker 3: the three original the sex trafficking is one of them,

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Speaker 3: but they are joined with two very important co charges

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Speaker 3: transporting for the sake of prostitution and the biggie as

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Speaker 3: we're kind of calling it in legal communities, the conspiracy

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Speaker 3: and racketeering.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Then there were two what we call superseding indictments, Carlos.

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Speaker 3: So these were indictments that came after the first charges

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Speaker 3: dropped and the homes were invaded in Miami and Los

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Speaker 3: Angeles and the raids and all of that. That was

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Speaker 3: when we got those first three charges sex trafficking, racketeering,

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Speaker 3: and conspiracy, and then transporting with prostitution.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Then we got two additional which means that the government

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Speaker 3: in this case, when I say the government, I want

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Speaker 3: to be clemed i ab out the United States of America,

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Speaker 3: the Federal Government v.

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Speaker 4: Shan Colmes. That's the title of this case. Okay. Again,

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Speaker 4: scope and magnitude.

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Speaker 3: They were asking after the first indictment Carlos, then prosecutor

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Speaker 3: black man by the name of Damian Williams. He has

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Speaker 3: sent stepped down from this case, but he was the

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Speaker 3: original prosecutor on the case. He was asking for more

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Speaker 3: witnesses and more victims, more alleged victims to what come forward.

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Speaker 3: He was saying, we're still working on this case. Baby,

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Speaker 3: it's not cooked, as the kids would say. It is

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Speaker 3: still an active investigation. But based on the facts, evidence

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Speaker 3: and proposed witnesses we have thus far, we've put forth

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Speaker 3: the first set of indictment.

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Speaker 4: Then, very calm in the lo Carlos. This is not uncommon.

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Speaker 4: I want to be clear.

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Speaker 3: We have superseding indictments, indictments that come after the initial

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Speaker 3: framing of the charges because we've got what, more witnesses,

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Speaker 3: more facts, more pieces of evidence to add on to

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Speaker 3: the first set of charges. So there's an additional sex

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Speaker 3: trafficking charge and an additional transportation for the sake of

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Speaker 3: prostitution charge, So five total charges we're talking about here. Now,

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Speaker 3: let me get to your question, because it is the

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Speaker 3: question of the case thus far. When we talk about

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Speaker 3: the video that many of us first saw when CNN

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Speaker 3: broke this news last year, and we all bore witness

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Speaker 3: to the horrific traumatic, extraordinarily violent, just unconscionable. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we saw a madman on camera right kicking, beating, dragging

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Speaker 3: a woman that didn't even have on shoes or socks,

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Speaker 3: and we were all horrified to see it. But you're

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Speaker 3: absolutely right. There were no and still are no criminal

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Speaker 3: charges attached to that tape.

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Speaker 4: Zero none, not.

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Speaker 3: That would have been domestic violence or some type of

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Speaker 3: assault in the California jurisdiction, statute of limitations ran on it,

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Speaker 3: because I just wanted to lay this out for the

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Speaker 3: rain drops, Carlos.

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Speaker 4: Why not criminal charges on that?

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Speaker 3: It's because the statute of limitations, the statute of limitations

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Speaker 3: had already run on that tape.

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Speaker 4: That tape was I'll get you the year in a second,

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Speaker 4: but it was.

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Speaker 3: It was the one year window, and which would have

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Speaker 3: been the state level that would have allowed it, and

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Speaker 3: the three year federal window. Both of them were expired.

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Speaker 3: So there are no criminal charges as it relates to that.

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Speaker 3: Now you're asking great question, why are we even talking

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Speaker 3: about this tape? Why was it the first piece of

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Speaker 3: evidence that the prosecutors put into evidence on this.

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Speaker 4: Federal trial that seemingly has nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want the rain Drops to think about at

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Speaker 3: least two things being true at the same time. So

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Speaker 3: what we see on that video is absolutely domestic violence

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Speaker 3: and it is absolutely not a charge in this case.

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Speaker 3: So anybody did y'all see saying that they are right?

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Speaker 3: And also this part it's very important, Carlos, the prosecutors

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Speaker 3: in the federal indictment cite aspects that we do see

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Speaker 3: on this video physical assault. I want to read it

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Speaker 3: verbatim because I don't want this to get into any

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Speaker 3: what Ebony thought of what Ebony said on this one,

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Speaker 3: because the stakes are too high.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you can appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: This is clause four. If you pull up any this

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Speaker 3: is public record.

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Speaker 4: Rain Drops.

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Speaker 3: Pull up the original indictment of the United States of

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Speaker 3: America v. Shan Colmes. You will see in the very

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Speaker 3: first caption they lay out the racketeering and conspiracy part

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Speaker 3: Clause go paragraph for number four physical abuse by Sean Colmes.

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Speaker 3: This is the government talking physical abuse by Sean Combs's

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Speaker 3: aka Puff Daddy akap DD aka Black.

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Speaker 4: The defendant.

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Speaker 3: Was recurrent and widely known on numerous occasions from at

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Speaker 3: least two thousand and nine to continuing years, Combs assaulted

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Speaker 3: women by doing, amongst other things, striking, punching, dragging, throwing

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Speaker 3: objects at and kicking them. These assaults were at times

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Speaker 3: witnessed this is Keith. They were witnessed by other folks.

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Speaker 3: They included an instance in the Los Angeles hotel.

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Speaker 4: This is the specific video.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about here in or about that's the year

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Speaker 3: March of twenty sixteen and was later reported where Comb's kicked,

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Speaker 3: dragged and threw a vase at a woman. We now

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Speaker 3: know that woman to be Cassie Ventura as she was

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Speaker 3: attempting to leave when a member of the hotel security intervened.

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Speaker 4: By the way rain drops.

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Speaker 3: That was the very first witness that the pro secution

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Speaker 3: put on the witness stay in day one. The first

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Speaker 3: witness we heard was from was that security guard, that

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Speaker 3: security officer. Really he was a security guard. And that's important, Flores,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, Carlos.

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Speaker 1: And from my understanding, the security guard is now a

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Speaker 1: police officer for the Los Angeles to Police Department, I believe.

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Speaker 2: And what was so interesting is and I want you

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Speaker 2: to explain this to me. So allegedly he did.

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Speaker 1: He contacted the then security guard to confiscate the footage

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Speaker 1: of what he did to Cassie. And is it true

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Speaker 1: that the security guard said on the stand that he

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Speaker 1: and I believe his then girlfriend or wife he showed

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Speaker 1: it to her.

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Speaker 2: And did not give it to the police. Is that true?

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Speaker 4: More or less? So?

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Speaker 3: Right? So, because I had that first question too, I

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Speaker 3: was like, well, why did you record this on your

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Speaker 3: cell phone?

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Speaker 4: Sir? Right?

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Speaker 3: And the answer that he said and admits to, which

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Speaker 3: I thought was very cringe quite frankly, was that the

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Speaker 3: only reason that he recorded this was not for some

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Speaker 3: moral high ground to It was not to prove law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: It was so that he can show his lady. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure if it was his wife or not, but

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Speaker 3: so that he could show his lady. Look, look, look

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Speaker 3: and see what happened to me at work today. Look

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Speaker 3: and see yah, see judge, But look and see what

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Speaker 3: I saw. Sean Combs this victim so that he could

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Speaker 3: be believed by his romantic partner.

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Speaker 4: So this is very interesting.

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Speaker 3: I want to make a point too that the read

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Speaker 3: because many people said, well, why didn't he go to

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Speaker 3: the police, Why didn't he do that? Well, y'all, remember

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Speaker 3: he's working in what a commercial capacity at that time,

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Speaker 3: He's working for the hotel.

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Speaker 4: Now he's not law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: And see this is where you know Black Comedy has

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Speaker 3: been joking about this for years, right, these toy cops,

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Speaker 3: no disrespect, but secure we must be. This is very important.

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Speaker 3: Security guards are not law enforcement. They're not they have

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Speaker 3: no they're not duty bound in that same way. So

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Speaker 3: his main reason for being there was to protect the

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Speaker 3: what the property of the hotel, and that's why what

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Speaker 3: we heard him testify to Carlos on opening day of

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Speaker 3: trial was that he would be letting mister Combs know

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Speaker 3: that the damage done by his abusive episode we show

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Speaker 3: up on the hotel bill. He's there to make sure

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Speaker 3: that the property is safe, not that the individuals per

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Speaker 3: se in the hotel. That's what police are for.

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Speaker 1: So a question for you, by this being a case

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Speaker 1: that outlines sex trafficking and the other things you outline,

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Speaker 1: Cassie's testimony is important. Tell me why her testimony is

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Speaker 1: important as it relates to us hearing about these freakoffs

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Speaker 1: that allegedly and god, I'm saying alleged because he hasn't

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Speaker 1: found guilty so I'm not just right, Ebony. Why are

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Speaker 1: the freak off details important in this case as Cassie

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Speaker 1: has to unfortunately be a month pregnant living through this

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Speaker 1: by giving her testimony in front of the man who

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Speaker 1: he saw abuse her.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so this is very important, the freakoff testimony, but

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Speaker 3: also the videotape. What I believe the prosecution is doing

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Speaker 3: the government in this case, Carlos, is they are slow walking.

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Speaker 3: Let's back up. We've already been told that this case

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Speaker 3: will likely be six to eight weeks long.

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Speaker 4: That's a long time. Think about all that we've already heard.

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Speaker 4: How many already.

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Speaker 3: Right, whether you think he's guilty or not, or it

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Speaker 3: rises to the occasion of criminal activity or not.

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Speaker 4: There's been a lot of.

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Speaker 3: And we're on day three barely okay, and we're talking

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Speaker 3: about six to eight weeks more of this. So that

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Speaker 3: tells me that the prosecution is slow walking. The factual

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Speaker 3: foundation is what they're laying, Carlos, taking their time, and

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Speaker 3: unfortunately I agree with you, but it's necessary. If you're

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Speaker 3: gonna get a conviction, you have got to have a

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Speaker 3: cooperating witness. And I think it's very important that people

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Speaker 3: acknowledge that Cassie not only is testifying at her vulnerable,

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Speaker 3: fragile condition of being eight months pregnant, she's doing so

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Speaker 3: under her own name.

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Speaker 4: And she didn't have to do that. She could have. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: she made a decision. She chose to do that, Carlos King.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, she chose to with forego a pseudonym, because

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Speaker 3: she could have been testifying as Jane Do one. As

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Speaker 3: we're being told future victims, alleged victims will be testifying

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Speaker 3: under pseudonyms Je Chambo two, Maybe there's a Jane Doe three.

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Speaker 4: We don't know.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that Cassie Venturer says, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: it's me. I am a famous woman in my own right.

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Speaker 3: This culture and community know me as it relates to

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Speaker 3: this man. And I believe she must believe, Carlos, that

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Speaker 3: it is persuasive for her to stand in receiving the consequences.

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Speaker 3: Because let's be clear, we all know victim shaming is real.

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Speaker 3: We've already all seen it already on the internet. It

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Speaker 3: relates to her testimony. Sound like she wanted it, sound

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Speaker 3: like she liked it, sound like she deserved it. Why

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Speaker 3: she stay okay? So she knew she would be receiving

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Speaker 3: that she's not a dummy.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: She's saying, even with that coming my way as I

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Speaker 3: carry my third child in uterow okay, and that's important.

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Speaker 3: And I'm gonna be personal, Carlos, as a woman that

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Speaker 3: just gave birth nine months ago. What we know scientifically

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Speaker 3: now is that the neuro system of the mother of

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Speaker 3: the gestational carrier directly impacts.

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Speaker 4: The fetus and the child. So you better know that that.

303
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Speaker 3: I'm sure her doctor told her you withdrawing withstanding, rather

304
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 3: that level of stress and emotional turmoil while your baby

305
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 3: is still in final development, is you're paying a price, okay.

306
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,719
Speaker 3: And she decided to pay that price on behalf of

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Speaker 3: the fact that she felt it was so necessary that

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00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,479
Speaker 3: while this case is not being televised, that's why none

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Speaker 3: of us have seen actual photos of anybody, including Sean Holmes.

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Speaker 4: What have we seen, Carlos these drawings at miss right.

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Speaker 3: She's still saying, people, I want them to know my name,

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Speaker 3: I want them to know that this is me, Cassandra Ventura,

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Speaker 3: and I'm telling what happened to me, and I'm telling

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Speaker 3: my truth.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: Why is the abuse and the freak offs and the

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Speaker 3: violent behavior in the freak offs. So important that we

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Speaker 3: know these details because the government, Carlos, is arguing that

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Speaker 3: all of that creates their case to argue conspiracy and racketeering.

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Speaker 3: So two things about that, right, So that's why when

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Speaker 3: I read I took the time to read this that

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Speaker 3: you know what they're alleging In the first complaint, in

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Speaker 3: the first indictment, they're saying, part of what because racketeering, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that what does that mean? That means criminal enterprise at play.

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Speaker 3: That's why we think of mafia when we hear Rico.

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Speaker 2: Is that the reason why the FED.

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Speaker 1: Ransack his Beverly Hills a stay and took and and

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Speaker 1: did the investigation, allegedly took guns and all that stuff because.

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Speaker 3: And all at the same time, because when you're dealing

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Speaker 3: with a Rico, a racketeering conspiracy, that means you've got

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Speaker 3: multiple players, if you will, multiple agents with different tasks

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Speaker 3: of executing the criminal activity. And that means if I'm

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Speaker 3: in Miami and I'm a part of the Combs enterprise,

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Speaker 3: alleged criminal enterprise, and I'm and I see the cops

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Speaker 3: coming or the Homeland Security in this case, coming, and

336
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 3: what am I gonna do? I'm gonna text Carlos King,

337
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,359
Speaker 3: who's at the LA spot and he's also a part

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00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 3: of the and I'm gonna say, hey, hey, Carlos, they're

339
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,959
Speaker 3: they just came in on us in Miami get rid

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Speaker 3: of all the evidence in La so in an effort

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Speaker 3: to avoid the destruction of evidence, the collaboration of people trying.

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Speaker 4: To get their stories straightened together.

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Speaker 3: This is how the the you know, the the This

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00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 3: is how they they let they put you on notice

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Speaker 3: right that that they're they're closing in on you, and

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Speaker 3: they do it in that simultaneous way. It was not

347
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Speaker 3: very different than what we saw with r. Kelly or

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Speaker 3: where he had Atlanta charges, but he also had Chicago.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: This is what the rico of it all comes into play,

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Speaker 3: multiple different pockets, most of the time in different places,

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Speaker 3: but all working in concert. That's a legal term, working

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Speaker 3: in concert, Carlos, meaning together for the execution of a

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Speaker 3: shared criminal agenda.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

356
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Speaker 3: And part of that one more thing, because I'm sorry

357
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 3: to keep talking about I want to yeah. And and

358
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Speaker 3: they're saying that part of the criminal activity was the abuse,

359
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 3: was the kicking, punching, dragging of women. That's a part

360
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 3: of what they were conspiring, Because what are we conspiring

361
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Speaker 3: to do if we're just if we're conspiring.

362
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 4: To make red kool aid, that's not a crime. We

363
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 4: can do that, Carlos. But if we're.

364
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Speaker 3: Conspiring to punch and kick people, that's criminal. Now we're

365
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 3: conspiring to commit a crime. So you've got to articulate

366
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 3: before you can get to the conspiracy, because that's what

367
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 3: everybody on social media that I'm hearing and reading and

368
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 3: listening and traveling, you and your raindrops too. Where's the rico?

369
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 3: Where's the conspiracy? Okay, domestic violence? I see that, got it.

370
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 3: He's out on trial for that. Where is the conspiracy?

371
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Speaker 3: The rico, the racketeering, and the working in concert, the

372
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 3: collusion if you will, you cannot collude by yourself. So

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Speaker 3: but I'm thinking that the prosecution has made a tactical

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Speaker 3: decision here, Carlos, and a strategic decision to say, oh,

375
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Speaker 3: we're gonna get to the various members of Sean Combs's enterprise,

376
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Speaker 3: whether they be because they worked for bad Boy at

377
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 3: a time, or they were his personal assistant, or maybe

378
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: they were security guards, or maybe they were drivers, or

379
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 3: maybe they were Heaven Forbid executives of some sort a

380
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, the various business entities that he controlled, because

381
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: this is all about him being in control of all

382
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 3: these people and various enterprise. But before we get to that,

383
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Speaker 3: we we're gonna take our time in slow walk what

384
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 3: the criminal activity itself was, and it was the physical abuse.

385
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 3: They're gonna eventually they're go. They kind of are starting

386
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 3: to allude to the Arson. So we heard in today

387
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 3: day three testimony the reference to Kid Cuddy okay, who

388
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 3: at one time was a boyfriend, a short term boyfriend

389
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Speaker 3: of Cassie, I think around twenty eleven, she says, when

390
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 3: her and Shaan Colmes were on the rocks, Sean colmebs

391
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 3: catches with of this relationship between Cassie and Cutty, threatens

392
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: to harm both of them. She says, she at some

393
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 3: point calls Key Cutty. He pulls up on the on

394
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: the curve, picks her up, takes her to his home.

395
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 3: At some point she goes anyways, and and Sean Holmes says,

396
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to blow his car up. So that's Arson.

397
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 3: That that that that would be a threat of arson, okay.

398
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 3: And then, as per The New York Times, Kid Cuddy

399
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 3: confirmed that some days after that threat of arson was made,

400
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 3: his car indeed exploded in the driveway. So this is

401
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 3: where the government is pulling that fact of Okay, part

402
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 3: of the criminal activity was the arson. Part of the

403
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 3: criminal activity was the physical abuse. Uh, let's get to

404
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 3: the freak offs because you asked about it, Carlos. Part

405
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 3: of the criminal activity was sexual at sexual sex, sexual activity,

406
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: sexual behavior, but not done voluntarily. She talked about on

407
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: the witness stand today. Many people were shot. She said

408
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: she was rape She used the rape word, Carlos. She said,

409
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 3: Sean Holmes raped me after some event and she said

410
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 3: he had dark eyes, his eyes were blacked out, and

411
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: he raped her. Okay, So that would be criminal activity.

412
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 3: And if the prosecution can prove Carlos that other people

413
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: were involved in the execution of him being able to

414
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: rape her, and this could be simple. This could be

415
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 3: as simple as his driver taking him to the destination

416
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 3: where the rape occurred, if the driver had knowledge that

417
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 3: Shawn Holmes was going there with the intention to commit

418
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 3: a crime, to do something illegal. Because now we're conspiring,

419
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 3: I'm helping you execute criminal activity.

420
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: That would make me a co conspirator.

421
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: Is it starting to it? Really is child.

422
00:23:51,160 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: We are just getting started. This is reality with the King,

423
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show.

424
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: Is it starting up? Yeah, No, it really is.

425
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: Because one of the questions that a lot of people

426
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: had ebony is sort of the salaciousness of the details

427
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: that Cassie's providing in her testimony. But now it all

428
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: makes sense because what we are hearing are some very

429
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: silations details that is Cassie's truth, which is the sort

430
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: of escort she had to be with.

431
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: She's been cross examined.

432
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: About whether or not it was elective or was she

433
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: forced to do it.

434
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 3: Let's let's be easy on that word cross exam, Carlos,

435
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: because it's very important.

436
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 4: We're gonna get to right. This is still direct exam.

437
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 4: But you're right, he's being questioned.

438
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 2: She's been question No, that's why your hair. I'm not

439
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: the legal ease, but thank you for that.

440
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: She is being questioned whether or not it was forced

441
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: or she's being questioned if it was elective.

442
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: Some of the things that people are saying because.

443
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: I want to know if media is going to play

444
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: a role in this, or is the sort of details

445
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: of the story going to color it for the jury.

446
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: So when we hear things like the sort of and

447
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: this is obviously you know it's explicit, but I'll say

448
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: the proper words, ejaculation that occurred doing a freak off,

449
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: and allegedly she had to take that and wipe it

450
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: on puff nipples as his way of having a satisfaction.

451
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 1: They talked about one escort urinating in her mouth. Can

452
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: you tell me why these very specific details are important.

453
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: Is it to paint the picture of what Cassie had

454
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: to endure or is it to really show that what

455
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: you said earlier, we are giving you step by step

456
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: leading into the ultimate racketeering. Recall all those things sex trafficking.

457
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: So we gotta be as detail as possible.

458
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: It's both, So let me start with where you just landed.

459
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 3: They have to be as detailed as possible. How dare

460
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 3: any prosecutor, because don't forget Carlos. As much as I'm

461
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: making the case and laying out the facts, I am

462
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 3: a criminal defense lawyer by trade.

463
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 4: That's what I did for a living.

464
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: I was first a public defender and then I was

465
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: a private lawyer for a defendants. So how dare a

466
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: prosecutor come in my face and try to convict my

467
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: client without specificity, period, that would be a gas to

468
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: the law. So they are required to be as absolutely

469
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: specific as available. So if there is a specific fact,

470
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 3: whether it's urine in a pool, whether it's twenty five

471
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 3: bottles of baby oil, whether it's the ejaculation you're urinating

472
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: to the point where she can't breathe and it's choking.

473
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: That we heard about the U T I s and

474
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 3: cole sores. She yeah, I went into all of that.

475
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: They must give us those details. But to your earlier

476
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: instinct because this is these are your instincts.

477
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 4: They're producing too.

478
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: They're painting the picture they're showing you with with fine

479
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: detail and broad stroke. This is a monster. Sean Colmes

480
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: is a monster and he and there was and he

481
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 3: was so depraved. See, this is the psychology of the process.

482
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: See psychology is a big part of this because when

483
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: we talk about the crime of coercion, Okay, and I'm gonna,

484
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: I'm gonna. I know we're running out of time for

485
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: this week. This is a great series, by the way,

486
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: So rain Drops, Carlos King has gifted you, honey, to

487
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 3: be able to get this in this level of detail

488
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: and expertise on a weekly basis as this case continues.

489
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 4: This is this is a gift.

490
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: Okay, because I can only do this with you, so

491
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: thank you, so much.

492
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: So happy to do it because it's important. I want

493
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: our culture to understand what's happening here. I want the

494
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: culture to Carlos. This is more than just the man

495
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: coming for a black successful man in America.

496
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: This is more than that. I'm not saying that.

497
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: Race doesn't play apart, We'll get to that eventually, but

498
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: this is bigger than that. So when we talk about coercion,

499
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: we're talking about the sex act happened. We know that

500
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: these sex acts with Cassie Sean Combs and male escorts

501
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 3: and others happened. That is not disputed. Here's what's in dispute,

502
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: Carlos King, and this is where this case will turn

503
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: or fail. Can the prosecution make the case convincingly to

504
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: not one, two, or three, but twelve different men and

505
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: women That behavior rose to the level of by force

506
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: and unwillingness. So that's why you keep hearing even her

507
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: own prosecution team, who she's their witness, right asking her

508
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: did you feel free to leave? That's very important. And

509
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: when she says something like not really. Now, I'm gonna

510
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: tell you, as a defense lawyer, I'm happy to hear that,

511
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: because I'm gonna go in on that. When cross examination

512
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: time does come, and it is coming as soon as

513
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: the prosecution Carlos is completely done with their examination. We

514
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: call that direct exam. I expect her to be on

515
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: the on the stand another day, if not two more days.

516
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: You might even go into next week. Don't be surprised.

517
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Wow.

518
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: Once they're done, they're gonna have to say defense your witness,

519
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 3: and then that's when they gonna get into her. They're

520
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: going to try to destroy her credibility. They're gonna try

521
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: to make her the biggest slut that ever lived. They're

522
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: gonna try to make her desperate for fame. They're gonna

523
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: try to make her completely thirsty. And some of these

524
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: things might apply.

525
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: Hell, we don't know.

526
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 4: We weren't there, So those are gonna be the arguments.

527
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: But the main one they're gonna argue is, well, back

528
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: when the when the government asked you, miss Ventura, did

529
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: you feel you had to do those things? You responded,

530
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: it was the only way I could spend time with him.

531
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: And then those twelve jurors, Carlos King are gonna have

532
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: to decide for themselves individually. Do I think that's coercion?

533
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: Do I think when Sean Combs says, if you were

534
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: to believe the testimony, when Shan Combs says, if you don't,

535
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: if this prostitute man I flew in from wherever for

536
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: the freak off that you know that's how we get

537
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: down and you know that's how you and my lady,

538
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: and you know that's how you get my time and attention,

539
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: and you want that And if you don't do it

540
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: right now tonight, I'm gonna release these sex tapes for

541
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: all the world to see.

542
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: Juror says, is that force.

543
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 3: Is?

544
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: That?

545
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: Is that Sean Comb's enforcing overt willpower over her such

546
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: that she doesn't feel free to say no to it.

547
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 4: That's the question of this case.

548
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: Abony K.

549
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: Williams that, first of all, that's that was powerful in

550
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: the sense of really understanding the magnitude of this case,

551
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: the dynamic of this case, the sensitivity. You know, and

552
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: we watch a lot of court shows, movies and all

553
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: that stuff, but what we always know is when you

554
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: say something like you said, the defence can take that

555
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: one SoundBite and paint a different picture for the Jewors.

556
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: So what we did learn today is.

557
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: Cassie accepted the twenty million dollars settlement from Puff. When

558
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: she and her legal team revealed to all of us

559
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: last year what she was going two years Oh my god,

560
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: it's like yesterday, two years ago. What is so interesting

561
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: about that to me is this, I would love to

562
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: get your legal education educate us on this.

563
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: Excuse me.

564
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: It was said today that she was writing a book

565
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: and was going to release it and she gave him

566
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: a heads up. Did she ask for a did Cassie

567
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: ask for money in order to not release the book?

568
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: Did he say no? Did she then release what she

569
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: went through publicly? And then did he settle with her

570
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: less than twenty four hours after that?

571
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: So my understanding of the facts based off of the

572
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: reporting that I've been able to get, because that's all

573
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 3: we can get. You know, unless you're in the press pool.

574
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: Actually there is no press pool, so unless you're in

575
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: the courtroom. Really, from per my reporting, this is the

576
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: order Carlos. She writes the book, shows it to her

577
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 3: mother said her intention with writing the book is ultimately

578
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: for Sean Combs to see it, and she hopes it

579
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: brings remorse, so she then contacts him through his team. Specifically,

580
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: she names kk Okay in a sense a high level

581
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: assistant to Sean Colmes, and says, get him these chapters.

582
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: This happens, someone from his team offers thirty million dollars.

583
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: So it's my understanding, Carlos that she didn't necessarily ask,

584
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: because that would be the height of extortion. Quite frankly, now,

585
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: she would be stepping into criminal territory, Carlos. Baby, if

586
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: I say, look at these pictures I got to you, Carlos,

587
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: and all it takes for me not to show them

588
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: to the world is thirty thousand dollars, I've extorted you

589
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 3: at that point. Now this is not about you anymore.

590
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 3: Now it's about me and my criminal activity of extortion.

591
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: So I didn't get that. She said, hey, here are

592
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: the chapters, read them and weep. Give me thirty million

593
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: and I'll make them go away.

594
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no.

595
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 3: She wrote the chapters, She previewed them by sending them

596
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: to him, and his team read them. They read them

597
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 3: and said, we will give you thirty million to make

598
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: this whole thing go away. And then at some point.

599
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: I think that was kind of tabled, if you will.

600
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: I have to believe, because before every civil suit is filed,

601
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: there's normally always pre trial conversations with the or pre

602
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 3: filing conversations, I should say, between the lawyers. So I

603
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 3: have to believe. Cassie's civil lawyer, So this is not

604
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: the government or the FEDS. This is her personal civil

605
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 3: lawyer that took her case on retainer knowing that if

606
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: they were successful in recovering anything, he would he or

607
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: she would get a third Okay, how that's how those

608
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 3: deals work.

609
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 4: M hm, and you take it on.

610
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: That's a contingency deal typical of a civil case. They

611
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: went to Seaan Colmebs and his team and said, hey,

612
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 3: we're about to file this suit, and they probably gave

613
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: them maybe not everything that was in the suit, Carlos,

614
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 3: but a lot of it. You know, the key Cudding

615
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 3: I'm sure was in it. I'm sure the hotel incident

616
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: was in it, because they knew they had that videotape

617
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: to pull from and say, hey, if you don't make

618
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: our client hole in some way fiscally right now, we're

619
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: going to take this and file it and it's going

620
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: to be a public record and then the public can

621
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: figure it out. And Shawn comes Is team you know,

622
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: said we'll go do it, and they went and did it.

623
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: November twenty twenty three, and twenty four hours later, the

624
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 3: twenty million dollar settlement happened. I have to believe that

625
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: Sean Combs thought that Cassie was still in such a

626
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 3: state of humiliation and grief and trauma that she would

627
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 3: never want the world to know that about her because

628
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: that was his. And that actually goes to the prosecution.

629
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 3: Going back now to the criminal elements required for this

630
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 3: current case we're on Carlos, that sounds a little bit

631
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: like the coursive tactic that was maybe at play to

632
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 3: silence his alleged victim.

633
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 4: Certainly, you wouldn't want anybody to know that you were

634
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 4: drowning in p literally.

635
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: Certainly you wouldn't want anybody to know that you had

636
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: STDs and UTIs and coal sores. And certainly you wouldn't

637
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 3: want the America and the world to see you as

638
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: such a.

639
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 4: Tragic horrors figure. I'm just saying, you know.

640
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: What they Yeah, and then that.

641
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: Type of psycho that's the psychological warfare that can absolutely

642
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 3: Carlos be a part of coercion, making you feel you

643
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 3: cannot say no, making you feel you cannot tell, making

644
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 3: you feel you can't as every many people in the

645
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: common well just leave, just run away. Well, if she

646
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 3: feels that she runs away, you're gonna release the tape,

647
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 3: or she feels if she tells, you're going to make

648
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: it so bad for her that she can't get a

649
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: record deal in the industry. That's what the prosecution is

650
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: ultimately going to lead us to by way of the

651
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: coercion argument. And then if you bring in more people

652
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 3: to enforce the coersion, like oh, my man's gonna make

653
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: sure that all the DJs and such and such that

654
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 3: they don't never play none of your shit, My my

655
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: my girl and her girl's gonna make sure no producers

656
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: work with you in the industry, All of that can

657
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 3: be made you. These are hypotheticals rain drops, But I'm

658
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: saying this is what corrosion could look like, and that

659
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: also would be getting working in concert, conspiring. That is

660
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 3: what conspiracy could look like. To execute the corision. We

661
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: can conspire carlos to work together to execute coercion, just

662
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 3: like we can conspire to work together to execute physical abuse.

663
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: Just like we can conspire to work together to execute kidnapping.

664
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: Get in this car right now, or I'm gonna release

665
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 3: the tapes. That's corision, and kidnapping could be because you're

666
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: forcing me into a space I don't want. I'm not

667
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: voluntarily in. Or you're not letting me leave your home.

668
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: I'm not free to leave because of the force of

669
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 3: will and threat, you're imparting my way. But then that's

670
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 3: why it's twelve jurors, because another juror can hear all

671
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: of that, is say, yeah, it sounds real bad, but

672
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's bad.

673
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 4: Enough that you just couldn't free yourself.

674
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: And that's why these cases are very interesting, and that's

675
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: why there's twelve differ and people on that jury box.

676
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: And for the record, if Pop would have settled initially,

677
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: none of this would be happening.

678
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: I don't believe you listened to holding court enough. I

679
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: don't believe that I'm just messing with you. I don't

680
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: believe we would be here talking. None of it is today,

681
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: I think all if we are to believe the majority

682
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: of what Cassie has said thus far consistently by the way,

683
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: which gives her some credibility in my personal book and

684
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: my legal one, I believe all this young lady really

685
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: really wanted was acknowledgment, acknowledgment that what she endured was

686
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: beyond the pale, beyond scope.

687
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 4: She didn't deserve it, and it was wrong.

688
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: And I think had she gotten that acknowledgment Carlos by

689
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 3: way of the twenty million doc, because frankly, I'm gonna

690
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 3: tell you, I was shocked to hear it was only

691
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: twenty million dollars today. I thought, for sure did it

692
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: was upwards of fifty million dollars because the demand was

693
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: I think in the seventies. I think it was around

694
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: seventy something million. May I think if she had gotten

695
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: her twenty million dollar check, which is some form of

696
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,479
Speaker 3: acknowledgment of culpability, not legally legally, it's not that at all,

697
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: but I believe that most people that receive a check

698
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 3: feel that way.

699
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: Alive.

700
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 3: Gretchen Carlson from Roger L's, with the fox of it all,

701
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 3: I was there for that, you know.

702
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 4: I think that that.

703
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: Probably would have satisfied enough of her desire desired outcome.

704
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: When it came to the alleged behavior, it wasn't done

705
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 3: the lawsuit was fired. At that point, she had nothing

706
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: else to lose. We already knew her name, We already

707
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 3: knew it was her. We already knew she had gotten

708
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: beaten and drugged and raped and participated, whether voluntary or

709
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 3: not voluntary, We know she had participated in some extraordinarily salacious, vile,

710
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: you know, unconscionable activities. So at that point, I think

711
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 3: it became game on, so to speak. And so now

712
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: let's cooperate with the prosecution and let's move all the

713
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: pieces on the chessboard for civil and criminal. And that's

714
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: why we're talking about the case today.

715
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Last question for you.

716
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: We see that his teenage daughters are there that he

717
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: had with the Lake Importer and Sarah Chapman and Sarah

718
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: Chapman thank you. Sarah's their daughter together named Chance. We

719
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: see his his first child's mother, Missa Hilton, who's with

720
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: the Walker, show up. His mom showed up, his sons

721
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: show up, his his his his theen weren't married. So

722
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: his bonus son, Christian, yes, son, I'll be sure, showed up.

723
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: Why do you think it was important for the defense

724
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: to bring in his family? But importantly, his very young

725
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: teenage daughters who I read. No, I don't know if

726
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: it's true, but I've read that the information Cassie speaking

727
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: about obviously is so severe that his teenage daughters.

728
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: Had to lead the room. Why are they even be

729
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: in the first place.

730
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked this on the way out,

731
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 3: because I had some thoughts around this. So conventional wisdom

732
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: tells us as lawyers, right, especially defense lawyers, that we

733
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: want to humanize and sympathize our clients to the best

734
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 3: of our ability, and that's good legal advice and skill.

735
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: That is true.

736
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 3: It's the reason that you saw Rihanna and Asab Rocky's

737
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: two little baby cute sons in court on his verdict day.

738
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: Here's the difference, though, So that's the why, that's the

739
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 3: theory around why they would be there in the first place.

740
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 4: To answer your question.

741
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 3: Here's where it's problematic for me as both an attorney

742
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 3: and a human being. Quite frankly, and now as a parent. Okay,

743
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm ajuror looking at especially like

744
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: you said, the three youngest girls, right, It's one thing

745
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 3: Justin's thirty one years old. We could argue he's a

746
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: grown man, Christian I believe at some point these are

747
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: older children. Okay, so I think you can make the

748
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: argument that they could stomach hearing a lot of this.

749
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: I think when you're talking about these young teenage still girls,

750
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: I'm now questioning the wisdom of you understanding what best

751
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: interest of the child means, and that should always be

752
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: our north star as parents period. We should always only

753
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: be doing what is in the best interest of our children.

754
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 4: So while I understand.

755
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: A legal theory or impulse to show, look how great

756
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 3: of a father he must be for these kids to

757
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: be in the galley supporting him, look at how great

758
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 3: of an ex husband he must be, or not husband

759
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: because he never married a motherfucker, But look at how

760
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: great of an ex boyfriend or baby daddy or great son.

761
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: Because it is Jenis Colmbs in the courtroom, I believe

762
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 4: she was.

763
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, so look at who's showing up

764
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: for him. I understand that, Carlos, But if I'm on

765
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 3: this jury, I'm also wondering, well, damn, are you that

766
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: self centered?

767
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 4: Selfish?

768
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 3: And either that or so unaware of the innate trauma

769
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: that is inherent when your daughters, Whether you did it

770
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 3: or not irrelevant, Actually that your daughters are having to

771
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 3: bear witness and be in an environment so traumatic, so dark,

772
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: so toxic. I would think, even if you did nothing wrong,

773
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 3: mister Combs, you would think so much of your responsibility

774
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 3: to your teenage daughters to protect them from such testimony.

775
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 3: And the fact that you between those two choices, because

776
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 3: we all have choices, Carlos, you and your legal team said, nah,

777
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 3: we feel it's more important for the jury to see

778
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: these girls and try to sympathize with Sean Comes, our client,

779
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: and then to protect the emotional wellbeing, the psychological stability

780
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 3: of these very formative young girls, these young girls, Carlos,

781
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: who are in this very moment shaping their understanding of sexuality,

782
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: their understanding of consent, their understanding of body autonomy, their

783
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: understanding of their own ability to say yes no to

784
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: certain So I would actually to me, this was a

785
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 3: miss on the defense for the three young daughters. Now

786
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 3: the older sons, the mama get yes. Because God knows,

787
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: hardly anybody from the industry has said a motherfucking thing

788
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: on behalf of Shawn Colmbs in positivity or defense to

789
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: be noted. Okay, just something to note. So showing your

790
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 3: family and support. Yeah, let's make you human. That's why

791
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 3: he got those sweaters on every day in court versus

792
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: the power suit. You know, that's why you know they've

793
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 3: got him. I think Sunny Houston said on the view,

794
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: he's looking like mister Rogers, you know. Yeah, absolute the glasses.

795
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: What you doing with them glasses on? Carlo and I'm

796
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: just playing with you.

797
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 2: Nah.

798
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw this with the Menandaz brothers, you know,

799
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: thirty years ago. Let's try to humanize and soften the defendant.

800
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: Got it cool, Every good defense lawyer does it. I

801
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 3: did it too with my clients. But these young girls

802
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: are very tender, They're very vulnerable, They're very impressionable, and

803
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 3: I would think a good father that cares about their

804
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 3: interests would protect them at all costs, even if he

805
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 3: was completely factually innocent.

806
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 4: You take my we.

807
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: Saw this in a time to kill, you know, take

808
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 3: take her out.

809
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: Of this courtroom.

810
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: Samuel L.

811
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 3: Jackson didn't want his daughter's fictitious but you know, didn't

812
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: want his daughter to see that he and he was taught.

813
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 4: He ended up getting not guilty.

814
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: But there's certain things a good parent wants to protect

815
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 3: their child from. So I think the call on This

816
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 3: looked selfish, it looked contrived, and it looked desperate.

817
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, Emney K Williams, I mean, listen, there's more

818
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: to come.

819
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 2: Ebony will be joining me next week to recap. Like

820
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: she said this, this trial is.

821
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: Going on for quite a while and on True Crime

822
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: Thursdays with MBUK Williams, we will be breaking down the

823
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: cage now, Ebony, we're before I let you go again.

824
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 4: Oh oh, I know you're busy.

825
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: I know that you have been doing your homework.

826
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: You are everywhere when it comes to all the things

827
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: you have going on. Not sure if you heard the news,

828
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: but there's been so much controversy, not sipping.

829
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 2: Surrounding your former show, The Real Housewives of New York City.

830
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: Long story short, The network release their upcoming shows, and

831
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: two notable shows were not on that release, and it

832
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: was The Real Housewives of New Jersey but also New

833
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: York City. Page six two days afterwards ran a report

834
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: that The Real Housewives of New York City was actually

835
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: allegedly camps old and was not going to come back

836
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: in the foreseeable future. Bravo has since then said the

837
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: show is not canceled and that there's still in the

838
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: casting process, Bethany Frankel did a TikTok radio child make

839
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: up Free Honey and talked about being an end of

840
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: an era and what the what the show was and

841
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: due to her words, not my Ebany K Williams, but

842
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: due to the decision of not sticking with the original cast,

843
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: was the demise of this show. Now Bravo has said

844
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: it's not canceled.

845
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: We'll let it.

846
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: Get your thoughts on every single aspect of this.

847
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: You are you, You're good. Carlos, You're very good. You're

848
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: what you do, My brother absolute you. Okay, So my my,

849
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: my high level take is this. I think it's for

850
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: the best. If this, I think it's for the best.

851
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: If the show does not come back right now, I

852
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: think it might be for the best if the show

853
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: does not come back. Ever, and contrary to some interpretation,

854
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: it's not sour grapes. Let me tell you why I

855
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 3: say that. I say that because Roney seasons roughly one

856
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: through twelve, So this is before my arrival, when the

857
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 3: cast was homogeneously white. For most people, most viewers of

858
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: the show was extraordinarily enjoyable. It had its moments of

859
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 3: you know, darkness, with lu Anne and her drinking and

860
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 3: some other different things, but generally speaking, Ronnie was a cultural,

861
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 3: lexicon enjoyable platform show. It also got a lot of heat,

862
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 3: as you know, The New York Times did a whole

863
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: article on not just Ronie, but Ronnie and all of

864
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: the housewived shows, basically indicting all of the white shows

865
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 3: for being all white shows in cities. Now it's one

866
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 3: thing of your all white show in Idaho where there's

867
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 3: next to no black population.

868
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 4: But at some point.

869
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 3: People started scratching their heads and really wondering, why is

870
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: a city with twenty five percent black population and twenty

871
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 3: six percent Latina population outlat of New York City, why

872
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: is it an exclusively white cast. The network heard the call,

873
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: they casted me to be the first black woman on

874
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 3: the cast. And what ensued was, to put it mildly,

875
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: Carlos and you know, we've talked about this at nauseum,

876
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 3: but it was, it was, it was.

877
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 4: It was horrific.

878
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 3: It was horrific at very high levels. Without going into

879
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 3: all of the details. What I think was most horrific

880
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 3: about it, and why I think it was so horrific

881
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 3: and traumatic, was because when we're talking about the premise

882
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: of housewives in general. Right, let's boom out for a second.

883
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: And you know this better than anybody because you are

884
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 3: the golden touch, okay of what this franchise when it's

885
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: at its best. You we were there, come about Atlanta, Okay,

886
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: and I think Jersey too, you produced.

887
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you.

888
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: I would say, I don't care when nobody says, I

889
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 3: would say, of all the franchise, those two in your

890
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: era were peak housewives. When we look back in twenty

891
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 3: years and forty years and we say what shifted culture indefinitely,

892
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: it will be the Teresa table flip and the knee

893
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 3: leaks of it all. Okay, close your legs to married men.

894
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 3: That those those types of moments, right, Okay, we can agree, agreed,

895
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 3: But what we're talking about in all these housewives, themes

896
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: entertaining on the basis of exploring wealth, money, class and society.

897
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 4: Is that a fair statement? Okay?

898
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: And here's what nobody really wanted to admit and still

899
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 3: really want admit when it comes to real Housewives of

900
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 3: New York City or and we saw a little bit

901
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 3: of it with Beverly Yiels, I would say a lot

902
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 3: of it with Beverly Hills. I think that's why our

903
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 3: good friend Garcela's not there. Now, when you start talking

904
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 3: about class and social standing and status, you're innately having

905
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 3: a race conversation.

906
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 4: You might not be doing it verbally.

907
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: You might not be saying, well, white women are here,

908
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: and black women are there, and white white girls are

909
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: this and and they're this level of beauty, and they're

910
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 3: this level of success, and the black girls are down here.

911
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 3: But it's baked into the cake. All you got to

912
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: do is read Isabelle Wilkinson's Cast or any other number

913
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: of great books that break down the innate social hierarchy

914
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 3: as it relates to America's cast system. We're not that

915
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 3: different than India, Carlos. Okay, there are assigned perceived slots

916
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 3: of the social order. And I don't care if you're

917
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: in New York or Beverly Hills. Okay, being black by

918
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 3: definition disqualifies you from sitting atop that social order, per

919
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: this framework that I'm describing. So when you put a

920
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: black woman on a cast with all white women or

921
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: mostly white women, it doesn't matter her beauty. In Garcell's case,

922
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: her distinguished an uncomparable resume in her business from the movies,

923
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 3: to the series, to all the things. It doesn't matter

924
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 3: her pedigree, it doesn't matter anything. But because she is black,

925
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: that is such a challenge to her castmate and to

926
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: many of the viewers Carlos to see her as truly

927
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 3: equal and equitable in terms of the social order of

928
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 3: the other women. And this was exacerbated on Roni because

929
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: these women, you know, kind of the more challenge they

930
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 3: are on the traditional roles of like education or pedigree,

931
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: or let's look at my cast look, look look at

932
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: the women. I was on the show with Ramona Luyne Sonya.

933
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: Sonya married well, Leuanne married pretty well. But that's not

934
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 3: their pedigree, that none of them come from it. So

935
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 3: the strongest piece of social currency they each held was

936
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 3: what whiteness. This is sociology one on one, okay. So

937
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: when whiteness is the thing that you that you hold

938
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 3: and society has told you makes you most special and

939
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: most valuable and most qualified and deserving of sitting atop

940
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 3: the social order of your society, you're you're gonna be

941
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: extremely threatened, put off, and dismissive and halfway disgusted by

942
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: a person of black race identity. Infiltrating that trying to

943
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: come in and participate in that Heaven forbid in some ways,

944
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 3: superseding you educationally, youth wise, beauty wise, all of these things.

945
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: So the long and short of it is this, Carlos,

946
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: those New York as it relates Toroni, it was always

947
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: going to and don't Just so for those that want

948
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 3: to say, yeah, it was just you, Ebany, you were

949
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: too much, you were too strong, that's fine. I'll totally

950
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 3: I'll take that projection because that's exactly what it is

951
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 3: and I'll take it.

952
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 4: So that's it.

953
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: Those are my thoughts, ladies, jentlemen, gays and bays being

954
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: comparable Ebony, Kay william I mean, there's nothing.

955
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: Else that we said after that. My drop for my

956
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 2: girl and y'all.

957
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: She's coming back next week for another roundup of what's

958
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: happening with the Diddy trial f Mek Williams. I thank

959
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: you so much and I'll see you next week.

960
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 4: See you next week.

961
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: Love by rain Drops by Carlos.

962
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Reality with the Kings.

963
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Share, comment, follow,

964
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 1: and subscribe to Reality with the King.

965
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcast.

966
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: Visit Reality withthe King dot com and be sure to

967
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram, Twitter,

968
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: and Yes, Baby, my YouTube channel where you could get

969
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: all of my visuals, baby, my expressions. Yeah, and don't

970
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: forget tweet me your thoughts and hot takes about this

971
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: episode using the hashtag Reality with the King. Reality with

972
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: the King is a production of Kingdom Rain Entertainment, an

973
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Carlos King, Kingdom Rain Entertainment, Baby,