1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: Oh man. 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 2: We talked about trains a bit in previous episodes. Ridiculous Historians, Max, 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 2: Noel and I they call me Ben. We have a 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: we have a classic, a blast from the past for. 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: You, Noel. 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: Once upon a time, rumor has it London made a 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: train for the dead. 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know you hear that, And there's a 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: lot of places that your mind could go, like, is 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: this like a spooky ghost train that only appears after 11 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: midnight as some sort of transparent apparition? 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? 13 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: Did the monarchy discover life after death and decide to 14 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: train the newly dead for some sort of career opportunities 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: in the afterlife? 16 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: I love it? Well, yes, and no kind of. It's 17 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: up for interpretation there. Happy birthday, by the way, Max, 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: but there is. 19 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: Happy Birthday, Max, Happy New Year. 20 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, birthday's coming up. I know it's coming up. It's 21 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: hard especially, Yeah, it's all I guess our birthdays are 22 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: always in some former fashion. 23 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: Coming shout out technically the truth. 24 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: Indeed, So what we're talking about today is the story 25 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: of the London Necropolis Railway. Uh, it was in fact 26 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: a train for the dead. Let's just leave it at 27 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: that and jump right. 28 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: In Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Choo Choo Choo, 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: Friends and neighbors all aboard. We want the train to 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 2: run on time. My name is Ben. 31 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: We are going off the rails on a train of 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: the dead on. My name is Nolan. This is ridiculous history. 33 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, alight. No, we are looking into 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: something relatively morbid today. I would say even more so 35 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: morbid than ridiculous. We're looking at a very particular railway 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: in London. 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: That's right. From eighteen fifty four to nineteen forty one, 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: the London Necropolis Railway was operational. It took mourners and 39 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: they're dearly departed on a forty minute, twenty three mile 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: ride to a very specific cemetery outside of London Town. 41 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: Yes, the Brookwood Cemetery in Surrey, which at the time 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: was the largest cemetery in the world, or the largest acknowledged, 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: and it came about through the efforts of something known 44 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: as the London Necropolis Company. They were established in eighteen 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 2: fifty two by an Act of Parliament. Because it turns 46 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: out this wasn't just some grizzly macob lark. There wasn't 47 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: you know, some creepy like Adams family type Gomez figure 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: who wanted to cart dead people around London was in 49 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: the grips of a crisis, a burial crisis. 50 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It was actually a twofold problem because 51 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: around about the mid nineteenth century, the cemeteries in London 52 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: proper were just absurdly overcrowded because of a booming population 53 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: that more than doubled from the early eighteen hundreds to 54 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds, not to mention that there was 55 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: a pretty serious cholera outbreak, so London nurse were burying 56 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of fifty thousand dead every year. 57 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: Before the cholera epidemic. The cemeteries were so overcrowded that 58 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: it was impossible to find a new grave without running 59 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: into an older grave. So when the cholera epidemic hit 60 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: in eighteen forty eight and killed almost fifteen thousand people 61 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: from cholera alone, the bodies were left stacked like cordwood 62 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: waiting to be buried, and people were exhuming even recent 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: graves to make room for new corpses. 64 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fantastic article from the BBC by Amanda 65 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: Riggery and She says that one way of dealing with 66 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: this is pretty grizzly, was actually digging up bodies and 67 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: cremating them under cover of night. And the only way 68 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: that you could escape this potential fate of your loved 69 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: ones was if you had all the money. Just all 70 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: the money. Oh gosh. 71 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are going to encounter some very strange issues 72 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: of class and social hierarchy here. So as the city 73 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: falls into this christ they're trying to figure out how 74 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: to address it. And there were a couple of different 75 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: ideas that were tossed around with varying degrees of plausibility, 76 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: but the one that won out was the idea of 77 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: transporting the newly deceased, you know, the recently passed on 78 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: from London proper to an area outside of it. That 79 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: would be Brookwood Cemetery or the London Necropolis. As Noel mentioned, 80 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: this isn't too far out of town thirty seven kilometers 81 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: or so. 82 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly right, twenty three miles or thirty seven 83 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: kilometers outside of London. And this was all done in tandem. 84 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: The railway was built at the same time as the 85 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: Brookwood Cemetery to deal with this overcrowding, because you know, 86 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: the folks that came up with this idea thought this 87 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: would be a pretty elegant solution because it was not 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: very efficient to take a horse drawn hearse with a 89 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: single boy thirty kilometers out of town. That would just 90 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: be a prohibitively long trip and just you know, how 91 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: would you even accommodate all the people that wanted to 92 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: go along for the procession. And the train was sort 93 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: of a combination of that where you could have many 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: people going at predetermined times each day. This train made 95 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: this journey and it was kind of an all encompassing, 96 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, kind of a package deal, right. 97 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: It was the total package because not only did the 98 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: mourners get transportation, there were even snacks provided. You could 99 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: have these homemade sandwiches and things called fairy cakes, which 100 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: are sort of the English equivalent of cupcakes. 101 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically ham sandwiches, and then take the same train 102 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: back returning to London mid afternoon at three point thirty pm. 103 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: This was an efficacious solution, but as you might imagine, folks, 104 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: it was a very controversial one for a number of reasons. 105 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: The Bishop of London testified on the proposal before a 106 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: House of Common Slight committee in eighteen forty two, and 107 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: he said, I consider it improper at present, we are 108 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: not sufficiently habituated to that mode of traveling, not to 109 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: consider the hurry and bustle connected with it as inconsistent 110 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 2: with the solemnity of a Christian funeral. So he thought, 111 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: you know, it was disrespectful to the dead and not blasphemous, 112 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: but not proper in terms of the Christian religion. 113 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: Do you think he was it was because of the noise, 114 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, the noisy engines, and just the nature of 115 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: traveling by train, the fact that it was kind of 116 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: considered newer technology. Maybe I wonder what his beef was. 117 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell specifically from that quote, don't you think. 118 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think you're on the right track though, 119 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: on the right rail, ay, Because he did seem to 120 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: feel that the technologlogy was impinging upon the traditions, the 121 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: rituals of burial. And when we were looking into this earlier, 122 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: I was wondering if it would be comparable to something 123 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: like having someone skype in at a funeral today, like 124 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: that would be controversial to some people, right, that's. 125 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: A really good parallel. Ben, I kind of that's a 126 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: really good way to look at it, and I think 127 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: we've kind of hit on what this bishop's problem really was. 128 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: But you know, the company that put all this together 129 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: really did try to make it a solemn and comforting experience. 130 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: The folks on the train were treated to some quite 131 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: resplendent views, including Westminster, Hampton Court and Richmond Park. And 132 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: you know, typically people that plan train routes looking for 133 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: the most efficient path, not necessarily the most scenic, but 134 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: this was a completely different animal, wasn't it. Yes. Absolutely. 135 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: There's a book on this called the Brookwood Necropolis Railway 136 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: by an author named John m clark, and in there 137 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: he details some of the amenities that were available to 138 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: the living and one of the other controversies that may 139 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: be surprising for us today, which is that in addition 140 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: to concerns about religious traditions, there were class concerns. After 141 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: you had a relative or a loved one pass on, 142 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: you could buy them a ticket for their coffin to 143 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: go to Brookwood Cemetery. But you could buy one of 144 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: three types of tickets, and we had the prices attached 145 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: for this travel, right, like the fancy one first class 146 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: that would be a pound, Is that correct? 147 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a pound, and it was divided up. 148 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: You had to pay for the living and the dead 149 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: as well. 150 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 2: That makes sense, So live passengers were charged six shillings 151 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 2: I believe for first class, so it was less expensive 152 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: to transport the living, probably because of space. To be 153 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: honest with you, we know it was five shillings for 154 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: the dead and second class, a little over two shillings 155 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: in third class. And we did some of the math here, 156 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: so in eighteen fifty four one British pound from eighteen 157 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: fifty four today would be about eighty six pounds, so 158 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: this was not an insignificant expense. This was still a 159 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: pretty pricey endeavor. 160 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, funerals to this day totally still are. I found 161 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: a review of a BBC four extra radio documentary about 162 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: the Necropolis that has some interesting references to the signage 163 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: one might have seen laying out these different classes and prices, 164 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: and it's referred to here as corpses artisan five shillings, 165 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: corpses pauper two shillings and sixpence. Oh wow, that's some 166 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: pretty strong language, right. 167 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: Pauper that's what they call third class copper and artisan 168 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 2: I guess that would be like the mercantile class premium. 169 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: I don't know artisan. I always think of artisan as 170 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: like artisanal Jesus. 171 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: Right, right, especially, you know, if you're in a fancy 172 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: boutique of some sort. We don't usually associate the phrase 173 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: artisan or artisanal with corpses. 174 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: I guess you could have an artisan artisanal coffin though, right, 175 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: like a handmade bespoke coffin. 176 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, you absolutely could. We're just not used to 177 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: thinking of actual human remains that way. And I'm glad 178 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: that it's weird in this day and age, because isn't 179 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: death supposed to be the great equalizer. This leads us 180 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: to one of the concerns that baffled us, the social 181 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: class idea. One of the worries that people had was 182 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: that different social classes might mix. For that reason, there 183 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: were separate carriages for each class. And this was the 184 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: at the time, and so even though you know, a 185 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: titan of banking and a very poor family could ride 186 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: the same train and arrive at the same station, they 187 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: would be segregated. And the cemetery itself, however, was not 188 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: divided by class or status. It was divided by religion. 189 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, once you're in the ground, we're all equal, right. 190 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: Not if you're Anglican. They had their own spot. 191 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: That's true. But at the same time, you could have 192 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: that titan of industry buried next to a pauper that 193 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: was in his same religion, unless you are such a 194 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: titan of industry that you could afford a private plot 195 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: somewhere like Highgate Cemetery, which was very exclusive and very expensive. 196 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 2: And today in twenty eighteen is nol and our super 197 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 2: producer Casey Pegrim and I record this. People in the 198 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: West tend to keep death as far away from us 199 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: as possible, right, But at the time, especially when the 200 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: city is literally getting crowded with corpses, people were much 201 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: more intimately familiar with the concept of mortality. And during 202 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: its peak, London's Necropolis Railway transported more than two thousand 203 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: corpses per year. That's you know, if we count the 204 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: live mourners, then the number of bodies reaches the tens 205 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: of thousands. This was a very successful thing. Also, there 206 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: were bars, did you find that too. 207 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, like you know, the concessions 208 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: were licensed to serve alcohol and pints, so you know, 209 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: if you opted to do that instead of a nice 210 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: lemonade and a cupcake or a fairy cake as it were, 211 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: you could, you know, get smashed. 212 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: Which you know happens sometimes at wakes and other funereal rights. 213 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: For sure. It's interesting that John Clark, who wrote the 214 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: book you mentioned the Brookwood Necropolis Railway's overall he's he's 215 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: just a railroad historian. He seemed to think that this 216 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: was pretty forward thinking. He referred to it as pioneering, 217 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: revolutionary and quoted as saying, as far as I know, 218 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: it was the first use of the railway for a 219 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: dedicated service from one private station directly into a cemetery 220 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: at the other end. And a man by the name 221 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: of George Nash we're in an essay called Pomp and Circumstance, Archaeology, 222 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: Modernity and the Corporatization of Death. He notes that discretion 223 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: was very important because the biggest railway station in London 224 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: at the time was Waterloo Station, and the York Street 225 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: station was built just far enough from that station. York 226 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: Street was where you'd get on to catch the Necropolis train, 227 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: was just far enough away to be separated from normal 228 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: commuters in their day to day route, so it was 229 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: all about kind of segmenting that while also making it 230 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: accessible and speaking of being pioneering in terms of the technology, 231 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: these trains had to be specially outfitted to store these coffins. 232 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: They had leather straps and in fact Parliament mandated that 233 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: the fares be capped, so it was even though it 234 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: was a little pricey, the you know, poor people and 235 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: rich people alike, couldn't be gouged, right. Yeah. 236 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: These were known as Hearse vans, and the Necropolis Company 237 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: had the locomotives and passenger carriages on loan, but it 238 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: owned the Hearse vans outright. In the beginning, each van 239 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: had twelve partitions in two rows of six. Each of 240 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: those spots could handle one coffin. In the later vans 241 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: had around fourteen coffins. I guess per van. They were 242 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: fitted with these partitions to divide first, second and third 243 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: class coffins because God forbid that the poor and the 244 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: wealthy right the same train, even as remains, and they 245 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: continued to evolve these Hearse vans. It was an example 246 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: of I don't want to say bleeding edge technology, but 247 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: it was an example of ingenuity because it became a 248 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: matter of numbers. They are literally, you know, moving bodies 249 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: and calculating how much they make per unit. 250 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: And the location was a big part of it too. 251 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: In that BBC article called the Passenger Train Created to 252 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: Carry the Dead, author Amanda Riggeri mentions that Waterloo had 253 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: these railway arches that were able to temporarily store these corpses. 254 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: So there was I'm going to go through the way 255 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: she describes it in the article. She says, quote, most 256 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: families have their loved ones picked up by a horse 257 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: drawn hearst. The funeral procession would end at the station. 258 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: There the coffins would be lifted into elevators that would 259 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: carry them up to the platform level and onto the train, 260 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: and those railway arches offered temporary storage if needed. 261 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: And here we see another controversial point. So we had 262 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: social class right, and we had the solemnity of religion. 263 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: Both were seen as very valid points at the time. 264 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: The third issue was that, according to Clark, most people 265 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 2: aspired to be buried near where they lived and worked, 266 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: So the idea of varying someone miles away from central 267 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: London was a large and significant choice to make. 268 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a tough pill to swallow. But again 269 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: we know that there just wasn't space, so I'm not 270 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: sure how best to handle that. This seemed like a 271 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: pretty elegant solution. One final taboo that we haven't even mentioned, 272 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: this kind of staring us right in the face, is 273 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: this idea of the living occupying the same vehicles as 274 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: the dead. I mean, there was concern of things like 275 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: odors from the dead and potential transmission of diseases even 276 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: and so that was something to be considered as well. 277 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: And like you said, Ben, it was seemingly successful with 278 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: the amount of dead and mourners that were transported on 279 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: this rail, but it didn't quite take off in the 280 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: way that the creators hoped it would. 281 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: Right. 282 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: Clark says this in his book. The original aims of 283 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: the company to effectively offer economic and sanitary burial well 284 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: beyond the city limits forever if necessary. That could have 285 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: been achieved, but the public, having the choice of burial place, 286 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: decided otherwise, And it all came down to that issue 287 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: of not wanting to be buried so far away from 288 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: their home base thirty miles outside of town. That was 289 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: a stretch for a lot of people. 290 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: And two other events influenced the fall of the Necropolis train. 291 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 2: One which we cannot emphasize enough was the introduction of 292 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: the motorized Terse in nineteen oh en. This started out slowly, 293 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: but by the nineteen twenties it became more popular than 294 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: the horse drawn hearse, which again, as you point out, 295 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 2: was pretty expensive, and the train itself, which had its 296 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: own sort of issues of propriety versus efficiency. 297 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: It's true, and there was also that issue of timing 298 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 1: because as we know, the trains run on a very 299 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: specific schedule and a lot of folks couldn't take off 300 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: work to meet these So unless the funeral or even 301 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, wanting to go visit a loved one took 302 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: place on a Sunday, they had to take off work. 303 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: And as this started to wane in popularity, which did happen, 304 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: the frequency of these runs started to dwindle. But the 305 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: true death now for this particular railway, came in nineteen 306 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: forty one. During World War. 307 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: Two, the London terminus of the Necropolis train was damaged 308 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: by a German V two rocket. And when the this 309 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 2: damage occurred during the London Blitz, there had already been 310 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 2: a couple of near misses and the train had already 311 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: been kind of winding down the frequency of trips, and 312 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: in addition to that, the trips that did have scheduled 313 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: were occasionally canceled because there was enemy action somewhere else 314 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: on the rail line. So in April of nineteen forty one, 315 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: and one of the last major air raids on London, 316 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: bombs repeatedly fell on the Waterloo area and the cars 317 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: or what's called rolling stock in the train world. The 318 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: cars were burned. The railway arch that Noel mentioned connecting 319 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: the main line was damaged. The building itself was okay, 320 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: but again the cars were on fire. 321 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it caused more than two thousand fire as it 322 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: turns out, and in the neighborhood of one thousand Peace 323 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: people lost their lives and that blitz, and you know, 324 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: faced with the choice of rebuilding or just walking away, 325 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: the company decided to do the ladder and just ditch it. 326 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 2: And so there ends the strange story of London's Train 327 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 2: of the Dead. But if you want to check it out, 328 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: I believe that you can still see remnants of the 329 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 2: station today. 330 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: Right. 331 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: It's true, it's going to be a weird date. But 332 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: if you want to take somebody, just let them know 333 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: what you're getting into. 334 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: And the facade of the building is almost the same, 335 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: exactly the same as it was, minus the signage identifying 336 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: it as the London Necropolis Railway. 337 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 2: And I have to ask, no, it's it's always a 338 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: tricky thing for us to put ourselves in the position 339 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: of someone in the past. But I want to know 340 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: your take. If you were conducting a funeral for a 341 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 2: loved one in this day and age, would you take 342 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: the train? Does it do any of their concerns seems 343 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: stranger off putting to you in the modern day. 344 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's cliche to say, but it was a 345 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: different time then. My modern mind just can't wrap itself 346 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: around this notion, you know. Plus the funerals give me 347 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: the creeps. Anyway, I'm not a fan us who is 348 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: meant Harold from Harold? 349 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: I knew you were gonna say that. Yeah, I'm I'm 350 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: kind of the of the same mind. It's just if 351 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: we existed back then. I keep having some voice in 352 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: my head of some you know, hypothetical relatives saying I 353 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 2: can't believe you're putting our darling Asmirelda in the ground 354 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: with Anglicans or something like that, you know, I say 355 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: that overall, this was a smart solution and was a 356 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: crucial one for the time in which it existed. And 357 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: this is only scratching the surface of strange funeral and 358 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: burial customs around the world. 359 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. For a deeper dive, check out John Clark's book 360 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: on the Brookwood Necropolis or the essay from George Nash 361 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: Pomp and Circumstance, Archaeology, Modernity, and the Corporatization of Death, 362 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: both of which you can find with a crisery Google search. 363 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 2: And on that note, we would like to hear from you. 364 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: What are some of the Do you hear that? 365 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was gonna ignore it. 366 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: You were really trying to power through that ending, weren't, she. 367 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: Thought if we sewed it up quickly, gentlemen, Jonathan Strickland, 368 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: the quizt it is. 369 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 3: I the Quizzer returned at last to plague you with 370 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 3: questions about fact and fiction? 371 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 2: Do you have an English exit today? 372 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 3: Some? Sometimes? 373 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: Okay, it comes and goes. 374 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 3: I've been in this room a really long time, guys. 375 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how long have you been here? 376 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 3: Pretty sure it's been weeks, So you know, I hide here, 377 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 3: ready to spring at a moment's notice. But you guys 378 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 3: recorded in the other studio like across the way the 379 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: last couple of times, and I mean the light was on. 380 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 3: I'm not going to come in with the lights on, right, 381 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: So I just had to keep waiting until you came 382 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 3: back in here. 383 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: So, but that is. 384 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: Beside the point. Now you will quake in fear as 385 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: you face a quizter, the most cringe worthy segment at 386 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 3: all of podcasting. Now you were talking about James K. 387 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 3: Polk and so mine. 388 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: No, no, no, we did that one already, like weeks ago. 389 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 3: What in the other studio? 390 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: Right? 391 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 3: I knew it. I knew it, guys. I hit here 392 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: to give you the perfect Why did you talk about today? 393 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: There's other dead stuff me in my work. We talked 394 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: about the Train of the Dead in the UK. 395 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: Still thematically irrelevant. So I will pose to you a query, 396 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 3: and as you know, I always come up with rules 397 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 3: of arbitrary nature for every single query I posed to you. Yes, yes, 398 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 3: And so you must before asking me any questions about 399 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: the scenario, which I shall lay so graciously before your feet, 400 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 3: the phrase. 401 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: Ooo spooky oOoOO spooks. 402 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 3: In on it. My eyes are on you. Then trust me. 403 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: If you don't give me a sincere ooh spooky. You 404 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: will not like what you get, so don't phone it in. 405 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 3: Do not, by any means phone it in. I mean 406 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: put your back into it. 407 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: I want to. 408 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 3: I want to see spooky waves of spookiness from you. 409 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: Before you ask me a question, right, I will not 410 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 3: give you an answer. 411 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: Well, quister, you have set the rules, as I believe, 412 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: we have three minutes. 413 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 3: That is correct, three minutes to ask me any questions 414 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 3: before you tell me whether or not the scenario I 415 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 3: give you is true or fiction. Now I will tell 416 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: you when to start the timer. This one's a bit 417 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: of a long one. So when I tell you, then 418 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: you hit go. 419 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 2: That's very you know, for a villain that is tremendously courteous. 420 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: I just I find that it won't be as wonderful 421 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 3: a victory. I won't be able to savor it if 422 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 3: I cheat you of some of your precious ouspookita. 423 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: So here we are. 424 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 3: Shakespeare. You familiar with him, Yeah, wrote a few plays. 425 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: Well. 426 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 3: He was buried. First of all, spoiler alert, he's dead. 427 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: He was buried in the cemetery adjacent to the Church 428 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 3: of the Holy Trinity in Stratford upon Avon, but in 429 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: seventeen twenty six his bones were moved from that site 430 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 3: to Poet's Corner in Westminster Abbey. Shortly thereafter. The abbey 431 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: reportedly was the site of several misfortunes, and the cause 432 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 3: was attributed to a curse Shakespeare had laid upon his 433 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: own grave, and the bones were thus dug back up 434 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 3: and replaced in his original grave at Stratford upon Avon. 435 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 3: A statue of Shakespeare was erected in seventeen forty one 436 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 3: in Westminster Abbey. That just had to do start. 437 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: Uh, Okay, I'm gonna say, uh sh I don't know, man, 438 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: I remember reading some stuff about Shakespeare posthumously. 439 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: Well, I remember, I definitely remember the epitaph. It was. 440 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: It was kind of like a creepy little poem, a 441 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: bit of a spoo keep o oohoo. Christer, what was 442 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: the epitaph that that Shakespeare had inscribed on his tomb? 443 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: Excellent question, noel, very well, good, good, spooky too. Here 444 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: you go, good friend, for Jesus sake, for bear to 445 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 3: dig the dust enclose it here. Blessed be the man 446 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 3: that spares these stones, and cursed be he that moves 447 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 3: my bones. 448 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: That sounds like Shakespeare. 449 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: Oh for sure, that definitely rings you. I remember that 450 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: from school. Okay, but I've got I've got one. I've 451 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: got what you got? 452 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: Oohoo, passable, Ben, go ahead, I thank presenting you so much. 453 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, fine, quister. Is is it possible that 454 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: some of this is true and some is not? 455 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: Sure? 456 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 3: It's also possible that I have a golden Cadillac at home. 457 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: I don't see what the point of that is. Do 458 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: you mean, do I make something out of whole cloth? 459 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 3: Or could there be elements of truth woven into a lie? 460 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 3: The Oh yeah, I could. That sounds like me. It 461 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 3: could happen. 462 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm thinking yes, because I definitely remember that epitaph. 463 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: That sounds completely accurate. It seems like something that would 464 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: have happened. The whole Westminster Abbey thing. What do you 465 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: think that I'm going with? 466 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: True? Westminster Abbey is historically a place for the interment 467 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: of very significant people. That's the real thing. Yeah, sure, 468 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with true. All right, let's go with it, 469 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: shall we lock it in? Let's like it in true? True, 470 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: I wind know. 471 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 3: Your streak of victories has come to an end. Your 472 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 3: streak too, is a streak here in Atlanta. As it 473 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 3: turns out, the people who aren't familiar with Atlanta sports, 474 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 3: two's a streak. I have claimed victory from the jaws 475 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 3: of defeat. You were bambuzled. So here's the real story. 476 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: His body was buried at Strafford upon Avon. That is, 477 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 3: in fact his epitaph on his gravestone. He was never moved, 478 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: although in the eighteenth century there was a fellow named 479 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 3: John Rich who was a theater manager in London, very 480 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 3: very influential man, who actually suggested that they move Shakespeare's 481 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 3: bones to Westminster Abbey, and the abbey said, nah. 482 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: We're cool. 483 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: So Shakespeare's statue is there, but Shakespeare's bones are still 484 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 3: at Strafford upon Avon. You can find other dead poets 485 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: over at Westminster Abbey, including Chaucer, Spencer, many others all 486 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: over in that corner. I remember jumping up and down 487 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: on Thomas Hardy's grave myself. 488 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: To a corner like where you hide in the podcast studio. 489 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 3: I mean no, no, because that's a corner. The poet's 490 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 3: corner is a corner on the ground, and I always 491 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: stay in the one in the upper right part of 492 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 3: the ceiling that was you. Yeah, I'm gonna need to 493 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: replace some time. 494 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 495 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: Well, also, you know you can't blame a guy, because 496 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 2: God knows it's gotta be tough to keep your grip 497 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: up there. 498 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: But fair is fair. 499 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: And because you finally won this round, Jonathan and your 500 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: incarnation as the quizzer Noel Casey, and I must award 501 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 2: you this badge that says winner. 502 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 3: I have literally never been this happy, Jonathan. 503 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: Are you crying? Shut up? 504 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 3: You're crying. 505 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: So what this means, I think is that you might 506 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: have won the battle Old Nemesis, but you have not 507 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: won the war. 508 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: No. 509 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 3: I will return and I will quiz you yet again 510 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 3: and again and again for all eternity. 511 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: But until that time comes, I think we're gonna have 512 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: to go drown our sorrows elsewhere. That's gonna be it 513 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: for today's episode. Ridiculous hisstory. I am admittedly quite bummed. 514 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: I thought we had it. Yeah, it felt it felt right, 515 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: But now it feels so wrong. 516 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: I have never been so upset about getting a badge 517 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: that says winner back, not even in like fourth grade 518 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 2: when that stuff really mattered. 519 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: Hey, folks, if you want to write us some consolations 520 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: and help us to feel better about ourselves. Please do so, 521 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: Please do so. We need it, We need it. Send 522 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: it to ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. You can also 523 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: console us on social media, which we are a ridiculous 524 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: history on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. 525 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 2: We would of course like to thank Lori l Dove. 526 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: Her fantastic article London had a Train for the Dead 527 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: provided some inspiration for this episode. Our super producer, Casey Pegrin. 528 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: Along with Alex Williams who composed our theme, and begrudging 529 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: thanks to Jonathan Whister Strickland for tormenting us you yet again. 530 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: You guys are going to be in the studio again 531 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: next time, right because I mean, like, I've got snacks 532 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 3: up there. 533 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: You know what I don't know right now? I don't 534 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: just I think that Nolan and I need. 535 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: A break, We need some time to heal. 536 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for listening, folks, and. 537 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: Let us know if you would have been fooled by 538 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: that Shakespeare thing. We'll see you next time. For more 539 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 540 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.