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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker.

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Speaker 2: And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three,

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Speaker 2: a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are

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Speaker 2: two working parents who love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,

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Speaker 1: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This

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Speaker 1: episode is airing in early February, which will be about

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Speaker 1: how to love your job again. We can all go

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Speaker 1: through little slumps in our careers, even if we're generally

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Speaker 1: in jobs we like, and so you know, as we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about Valentine's Day this month, it helps to think

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Speaker 1: about how we might love all the things in our lives.

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Speaker 1: And sort of similar to any long term relationship, a

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Speaker 1: job can benefit from putting a little extra into to

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Speaker 1: it as long as you genuinely believe it is the

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Speaker 1: right job for you to be in. So just if

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Speaker 1: you notice my voice sounds a little different, I have

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Speaker 1: a confession to make here, Sarah, perhaps you could describe

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Speaker 1: this wretched scene you're seeing on the video.

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Speaker 2: So I've recorded many episodes with Laura this is we're

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Speaker 2: in the mid three hundreds, but this is the first

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Speaker 2: time we have ever recorded one where she is horizontal.

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Speaker 2: She's lying down. She unfortunately sustained a She's talked about

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Speaker 2: her back on the podcast before, but this is an

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Speaker 2: acute flare up of some back pain that is absolutely terrible.

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Speaker 2: I mean I could see that by looking at her.

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Speaker 2: I feel so bad for her. I did suggest we

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Speaker 2: move this recording, but in typical Laura fashion, she felt

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Speaker 2: like she wanted to see how we did today, and

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Speaker 2: so far I think, so good. But I hope that

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Speaker 2: by the time everyone is hearing this episode this is

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Speaker 2: a distant memory. We can all laugh about it, and

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Speaker 2: that your back and twisting in every witch direction, pain

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Speaker 2: free moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I tried to go to my recording closet

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Nope, this is not going to work.

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Speaker 1: So here I am doing this on my back with

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Speaker 1: my heating pad in my bed. So anyway, that is

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Speaker 1: the upside of my job is that I can do

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Speaker 1: this from my house, which is good. I can't even

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Speaker 1: imagine why. If I was trying to get to an office,

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Speaker 1: it just wouldn't work. So that's why people wind up

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Speaker 1: on disability when they are in back pain. But speaking

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Speaker 1: of jobs, Sarah, what were your early jobs that you did,

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Speaker 1: like as a teenager.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So my early jobs, I had several of them.

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Speaker 2: I grew up where you currently live. So I was

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Speaker 2: a camp counselor at a camp that is not far

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Speaker 2: from where you are. I was a camper there until

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Speaker 2: until you age out and become a CIT and then

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Speaker 2: I was a counselor in training and then an assistant

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Speaker 2: counselor for a couple of years. And so that was

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Speaker 2: my first job. I did it during the summers. I

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Speaker 2: got paid like nothing. I believe the summer salary for

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Speaker 2: five weeks of full time work because it was from

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Speaker 2: like eight to four or something like that was three

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars for the summer, and then the second summer

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Speaker 2: I got a huge raise to four hundred dollars for

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Speaker 2: the summer. But it was really fun and I feel

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Speaker 2: like I did learn a lot about like just being

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Speaker 2: responsible and working as a team, taking care of kids.

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Speaker 2: What I liked and didn't like and I always requested

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Speaker 2: the five and six year olds because I felt like

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Speaker 2: they were old enough not to be babies, but young

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Speaker 2: enough that they were listening to me. So I really

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Speaker 2: liked it. And then I also worked at a video store,

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Speaker 2: which we don't even have those anymore, so it was

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Speaker 2: a relic of the past. And I did a lot

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Speaker 2: of babysitting as well. I remember rates of like two

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Speaker 2: dollars an hour at certain people's houses, and I actually

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Speaker 2: I didn't mind babysitting.

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Speaker 3: I you know, the time passed quickly.

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Speaker 2: It was something to do, and then if the kids

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Speaker 2: went to bed, you can kind of relax, eat the

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Speaker 2: fun snacks, et cetera. So those were my main jobs,

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Speaker 2: I guess the most job like one was the video

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Speaker 2: store one. That was my first taste of like, do

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Speaker 2: I want to work retail long term?

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Speaker 3: The answer?

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Speaker 1: What was the answer? Do you want to work retail

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Speaker 1: long term?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: I did not, No, I did not.

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Speaker 1: So she wound up in medicine. Very different, but I'm

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Speaker 1: very Yeah, what would people have been renting that year?

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Speaker 2: That was the Oh well, Titanic was big. There was

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Speaker 2: a context, So how many copies of Titanic you could sell.

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Speaker 2: I still see nineteen ninety seven movies and like, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh yep, that was like a video store.

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Speaker 1: Year was the one.

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Speaker 2: But awkwardly, we also rented adult movies and so so.

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Speaker 1: You know which of your neighbors were renting the full rest.

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Speaker 2: I got to see who was returning what, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to know.

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Speaker 3: So that was a.

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Speaker 1: Downside back in the day. Kids these days, they don't

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Speaker 1: know how difficult it was for people to tap into

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Speaker 1: that urge. I worked at a couple places I worked

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Speaker 1: in aerobics daycare one summer. I know where people would

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Speaker 1: go work out and they could drop their kids while

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Speaker 1: they were doing it. I worked at Fizzoli's Italian restaurant

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Speaker 1: for a summer. That was quite the experience of customer

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Speaker 1: service and dealing with everyone wanting certain things on a

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Speaker 1: fast food Like if you think about people trying to

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Speaker 1: customize their fast food orders. Anyway. I worked at Osco

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Speaker 1: drugstore for a summer, worked in did a paper delivery

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Speaker 1: job for a while, plus a lot of babysitting. My

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Speaker 1: kids have not, so I guess my older kids would

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Speaker 1: have been old enough to have summer jobs. Certainly, I

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Speaker 1: guess Jasper could have had a job last summer. He

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Speaker 1: didn't wind up doing that. He wound up doing some

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Speaker 1: other things. I don't know. They probably, I mean they

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Speaker 1: babysit for me when I need it for Henry and Alex.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes that is unpaid as part of your household duties,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it is paid because it's something I would

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Speaker 1: have had to hire, you know, an adult sitter to do.

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Speaker 1: If I'm doing something for work, for instance, I will

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Speaker 1: usually pay them for doing it. But yeah, so anyway,

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Speaker 1: this main set, I mean, are your kids gonna work?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? So?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I mean, I think it depends. I think summer

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Speaker 2: is the best time. I do see kids struggle sometimes,

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Speaker 2: Like you know, I notice in my patients the ones

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Speaker 2: that are trying to like do school activities and then

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Speaker 2: also manage jobs during the school year. Some of them

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Speaker 2: really do struggle, and I think it's a lot. But

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Speaker 2: the summers are often wide open if they're past the

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Speaker 2: kind of camp age. I think if a kid made

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Speaker 2: a really serious case for like, I want to go

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Speaker 2: to this specific experience and it wasn't a job, I'd

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Speaker 2: be fine with it. But if there's not something else

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Speaker 2: that they want to do. I think working is a

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Speaker 2: great thing for them to do. I actually think camp

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Speaker 2: counselor is something I would encourage all of my kids

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Speaker 2: to at least consider because it's social and there's a

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Speaker 2: fun camp atmosphere, but you also get that kind of

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Speaker 2: responsibility piece, So it's a way to experience camp on

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Speaker 2: a different level, but also probably gain some skills from

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Speaker 2: it as well.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, No, that sounds like it might be fun.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's something I'll suggest for my kids to try out. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, this episode is about how to love your

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Speaker 1: job again. We're going to be looking at a couple

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Speaker 1: of different areas. You know, we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about passions such as it is. We're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about I have to look at my list.

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Speaker 3: Their peace, laar.

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Speaker 2: I think we came up with these in a brainstorming

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Speaker 2: session and we were very proud of ourselves, so I

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Speaker 2: think we should share the four p's even before. So

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Speaker 2: there is passion, passion, there is people, there is progress,

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Speaker 2: and there is pleasure. Yes, yeah, we're going to use

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Speaker 2: that as our framework.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but before we get to that, we do want

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Speaker 1: to put in a little caveat here that if you

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Speaker 1: are particularly unhappy in your job, and you're thinking that

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Speaker 1: maybe you want to find a new job, you should

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Speaker 1: totally go for it. I mean, I hear these stories

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Speaker 1: from people all the time. They talk themselves into all

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Speaker 1: sorts of limiting beliefs about their current employments, such as,

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Speaker 1: I'll never find another job that's this flexible. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: maybe you've achieved a certain sort of work life balance.

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Speaker 1: The work doesn't interest you, maybe it's not even paying

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Speaker 1: as much as you're probably worth. But you're like, how

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Speaker 1: will I ever find another boss who lets me do X,

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Speaker 1: Y and Z whenever I want? Well, let's hear about it.

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Speaker 1: The labor market is just so much less flexible than,

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Speaker 1: so much less efficient than the capital markets. Like money

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Speaker 1: tends to go wherever because a dollar is worth the

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Speaker 1: same in anything, So if something's getting much better returns

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Speaker 1: over time, more people are going to go there, like

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. But the labor market, the job you have

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Speaker 1: is one that was available when you were looking and

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Speaker 1: that you knew about, right, And so if you think

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Speaker 1: about all those constraints on what you would have found,

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Speaker 1: there is absolutely no guarantee that you would have optimized

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Speaker 1: on any dimension. So if you haven't optimized on any dimension.

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Speaker 1: That means it's actually possible to improve on multiple dimensions

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Speaker 1: at the same time. So it is entirely possible that

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Speaker 1: you will find a job that you like more, that

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Speaker 1: is more flexible, and that pays you more, Like you

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Speaker 1: just don't know until you look, So why not work

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Speaker 1: your network see what's out there. This is a good

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Speaker 1: exercise at any point. I mean, if for no other

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Speaker 1: reason then you can see what other people are maybe

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Speaker 1: earning and work your way into a raise. That's all

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Speaker 1: worth trying. But a generally good job is also like

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Speaker 1: I would guess, a generally good marriage. If we're going

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Speaker 1: to use this metaphor here, Everything goes through ups and downs,

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Speaker 1: and what you get out of it is going to

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Speaker 1: be a function of what you're putting into it. So

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Speaker 1: you can look for a new job, but there's also

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Speaker 1: no guarantee that will be perfect. And if any of

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Speaker 1: the issues in your current job in any way stem

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Speaker 1: from you, like, those are absolutely going to be repeated

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Speaker 1: in a new situation. So if you you know, have

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Speaker 1: this in your mind, like, oh, it's impossible to hire

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Speaker 1: good people like, you may find it's also a hospital

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Speaker 1: to hire new people in your new job, Like it's

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Speaker 1: maybe that you aren't you looking for the right things

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Speaker 1: in people. If you're like, oh, people you know never

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Speaker 1: respect boundaries, and then you get to a new job

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Speaker 1: and you're like, wow, people don't respect boundaries here too. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we need to be a little bit more firm

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Speaker 1: in those boundaries. So anyway, just something to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind there.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 2: I like that thought about the kind of job market

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Speaker 2: not being one that's optimized by pressures. I think that

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Speaker 2: is something to reflect on, even though we're not encouraging

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Speaker 2: people to necessarily go job shopping in this episode. That

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Speaker 2: was not the point, but I had never thought about

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Speaker 2: it that way, So I think that's kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Sarah, you've done a lot of things in

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Speaker 1: your current job to improve it over the years and

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Speaker 1: to make it a better fit. Maybe you can share

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Speaker 1: some of those with our listeners.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so I have definitely gone along the route of

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Speaker 2: kind of customize and tweak my own job rather than

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Speaker 2: trying other jobs. Because I am still in my first

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Speaker 2: job out of Fellowship training. I've been there over a

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Speaker 2: decade now, at the same healthcare system, but my role

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Speaker 2: has definitely changed, and it's changed a lot because I

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Speaker 2: do a lot of reflection on like I like this,

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Speaker 2: I don't like this, this works, this doesn't work. And

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Speaker 2: so I have gone from entirely clinical to being in

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Speaker 2: kind of clinical slash hybrid leadership role, to having the

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Speaker 2: leadership role be a major part of my job with

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Speaker 2: numerous kind of leadership tracks things going on, to then

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Speaker 2: deciding that I preferred to focus more on my creative

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Speaker 2: pursuits because I found myself wanting to do that more

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Speaker 2: and more anyway and didn't feel like I could give

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Speaker 2: my all to both realms, And then dialing back to

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Speaker 2: my current iteration, which is sixty percent clinical, forty percent

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Speaker 2: working for myself. So a lot of that has just

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Speaker 2: taken you know, reflective time conversations with my husband, thinking

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Speaker 2: about what I like to do during the week and

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Speaker 2: what I don't, thinking about what stresses me out and

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Speaker 2: takes away from the rest of my life and what doesn't,

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Speaker 2: and even like down to the minutia level, like we

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Speaker 2: talk about like how your time is spent. I think

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Speaker 2: one thing that helped me kind of I guess optimize.

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Speaker 2: The parts that I still have are to think about,

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Speaker 2: like what needs to be me doing it and what

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Speaker 2: am I good at and enjoy and what could more

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Speaker 2: easily be either eliminated or outsourced. My example here being

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Speaker 2: I want to spend face to face time with patients,

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Speaker 2: being able able to sit there and answer their questions

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Speaker 2: without seeming rushed. And I don't want to be playing

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Speaker 2: with the fax machine because one of those requires me

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Speaker 2: and really benefits from my training and just generally me

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Speaker 2: being present as a human and one of them. Someone

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Speaker 2: else can can make the facts machine probably work better

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Speaker 2: than I can, because I'm really not good at faxing things.

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Speaker 1: It's surprising that people are still faxing things. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's just what it is. The one area where it's like,

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Speaker 1: we have this thing, we have the Internet, which sends

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Speaker 1: stuff digitally, but I guess faxes work as well. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: Sarah's totally right about the idea of needing to figure

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Speaker 1: out where your time is going at work. Like we

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Speaker 1: can often talk about how happy we are with various

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Speaker 1: things just in abstractions, and that may not actually be

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Speaker 1: all that helpful. So actually try, as a first step

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Speaker 1: to loving your job again, try tracking your time at work.

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Speaker 1: I always think people should track all their time, all

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight hours of the week. So

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Speaker 1: you might want to do that partly because sometimes work

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Speaker 1: slips into other crevices of the week, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's quite possible that you do some work at night,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you sometimes do work on the weekends or

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Speaker 1: something like that, and it's helpful to know exactly what

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Speaker 1: the shape of that is. But then also what you're

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Speaker 1: doing during standard working hours, Like you know, how much

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Speaker 1: of your time is spent on the things that you like,

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Speaker 1: how much time is spent on the things that you

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Speaker 1: don't like. Are the stories you are telling yourself accurate?

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Speaker 1: I know, we just did our time tracking challenge a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago on my blog and in my newsletters,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things I pointed out to people

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Speaker 1: is I clocked thirty eight hours of work for the week,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty typical for me. I'm almost always somewhere

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Speaker 1: between thirty five and forty hours. But I worked at

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Speaker 1: least three week nights after six pm. I worked on

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Speaker 1: both weekend days in order for it to hit that

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Speaker 1: thirty eight hours. And so if I was telling myself

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Speaker 1: a story of like, look how overworked I am because

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Speaker 1: I'm working at night and on the weekends. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that would be entirely accurate, given that I'm only

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Speaker 1: clocking thirty eight hours a week. Right, what's actually going

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Speaker 1: on is that I am, through choice and through happenstance,

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Speaker 1: often doing things that are not work during working hours,

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Speaker 1: and in order to actually get all the work I

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Speaker 1: have to do done, I need to use those night

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Speaker 1: and weekend hours. So it's a different story that's more

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Speaker 1: stort of, like, well, maybe if I don't like working

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Speaker 1: at nights and weekends, I need to change up my

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Speaker 1: work days to be a little bit more focused or

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Speaker 1: you know, not do stuff with the kids after school.

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Speaker 1: But if I decide that, like, actually I'm okay with

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Speaker 1: stopping work at four o'clock to deal with kids, then

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Speaker 1: the nights and weekends are just going to be part

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Speaker 1: of it. So, you know, you want to make sure

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Speaker 1: you're telling yourself a story and also what you're doing

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Speaker 1: during those working hours. So let's take a quick ad

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Speaker 1: break and then we will be back with more on

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Speaker 1: making work work for you. Well, we are back talking

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Speaker 1: how to love your job again. It is February, we

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Speaker 1: are coming into Valentine's Day, and you know we want

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Speaker 1: to think about all the things we love in our lives,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully we love our work too. And if we're

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Speaker 1: not truly in love with our work, there are maybe

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Speaker 1: ways that we can become a little bit more enamored

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Speaker 1: with our current jobs. We just talked about tracking our time,

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Speaker 1: and now we're going to look at the four dimensions

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Speaker 1: of passion people, productivity, and pleasure and passion first might

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Speaker 1: be slightly tricky. We don't all have to be what

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Speaker 1: we wanted to be when we grow up. You know,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to be a ballerina or an astronaut. Maybe

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Speaker 1: we have some ballerinas and astronauts listening to this show,

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Speaker 1: But probably most people wound up in other things. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that everyone dreamed of being, say, an

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Speaker 1: insurance executive when you grew up. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: there are probably things within that that you are very

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Speaker 1: passionate about, whether that is mentoring your colleagues, whether that

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Speaker 1: is designing better products, whatever it happens to be. So

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Speaker 1: as you look at your time log, you might want

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Speaker 1: to say, well, what are the favorite parts of my

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Speaker 1: job in terms of how I am spending my hours,

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Speaker 1: and then set yourself a goal could you spend at

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Speaker 1: least one more hour beyond what you are currently spending

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Speaker 1: over the next week, and the parts of your job

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Speaker 1: that you love. So, Sarah, what are your favorite parts

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Speaker 1: of your job?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm going to focus on my non clinical job,

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Speaker 2: and actually I'm going to do a tiny detour because

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Speaker 2: when you're talking about passion, it definitely like reminded me

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Speaker 2: of the fact that I've heard some people talk about

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Speaker 2: following your passion to choose your career and other people

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Speaker 2: talking about how that's a terrible idea. So there's like

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Speaker 2: interesting conflicting ideas about this. But I think we are

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Speaker 2: getting to an interesting middle ground here, which is like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're not necessarily going to be that football player that

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Speaker 2: you were dreaming about in second grade, but can you

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Speaker 2: find some piece of what you're doing to be passionate

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Speaker 2: about and maybe try to grow at that piece. So

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where we fall on the spectrum of

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Speaker 2: following your passion. I really enjoy writing, I like connecting

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Speaker 2: with others. I love talking about planning and organizing and activity,

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Speaker 2: and I do enjoy speaking. The more I do it,

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Speaker 2: the more I'm just happy that I'm comfortable doing it.

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Speaker 2: And it becomes really fun. And so I am really

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Speaker 2: happy that I've been able to kind of expand those

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Speaker 2: pieces of my non clinical work, not teaching courses, you know,

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Speaker 2: doing presentations and that kind of a thing, as well

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Speaker 2: as I've always enjoyed writing, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: writing that goes in even though I'm not an author

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Speaker 2: or like writer like that, I'm churning out a lot

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Speaker 2: of scripts and a lot of content, and so I

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Speaker 2: feel like I get to connect with that part of

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Speaker 2: what I enjoy on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I definitely like the writing aspect. I like

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Speaker 1: sharing content with people. Certainly, I love recording these podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I love interacting with our Patreon community and things like that. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, really drilled down into what are the parts

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Speaker 1: of your job you love best, try and spend an

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Speaker 1: extra hour over the next week on that. And then

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Speaker 1: of course there is the things you love the least.

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Speaker 1: What are your least favorite parts of your job as

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Speaker 1: you look at how you are spending hours, and the

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Speaker 1: goal is could you spend one hour less on those

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Speaker 1: things over the course of the week. So, Sarah, I

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Speaker 1: know you recently worked on your patient checkout template, right

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Speaker 1: as a way to spend less time on things that

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Speaker 1: were related to like printing in fax machines, and more

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Speaker 1: time with the actual patient interaction.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I had this habit of it started when I

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Speaker 2: first began working where I worked, where I felt like

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Speaker 2: sometimes patients didn't have a clear idea of what they

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Speaker 2: needed at the checkout desk, meaning like what lab orders

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Speaker 2: do they need? When do they need to schedule the

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Speaker 2: next appointment? Like will they actually get the instructions that

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Speaker 2: I write out for them, because there's something called an

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Speaker 2: after visit summary and we can actually type that up

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Speaker 2: in the room for them to see it, but for

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Speaker 2: them to actually get a physical copy of that, which

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Speaker 2: some people still really like having it physically, I would

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Speaker 2: wonder about it, And so I spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time running around printing it out myself, printing out the

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Speaker 2: labs myself, handing them to the patient, and then like

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Speaker 2: kind of walking them to the front desk. And then

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Speaker 2: I went to an ORTHO appointment when I had hurt

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Speaker 2: my knee, and I saw that he had given me

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Speaker 2: a checkout sheet that basically had checkboxes of what types

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Speaker 2: of orders were needed when the appointment needed to be

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Speaker 2: happened and then it like checked off that, like the

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Speaker 2: person at the front needed to give my instructions and

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Speaker 2: he just did that with a pen. So it's super quick,

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Speaker 2: like at the very end of the visit. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: he works with the same organization I do. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I can do that too. So I made my own

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Speaker 2: checkout sheet, and you know what, it has been awesome.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not kidding.

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Speaker 2: I think I saved myself an hour a day, because

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Speaker 2: even if it's five minutes a day, that only takes

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Speaker 2: twelve patients to like save me an hour a day

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Speaker 2: of running around and chasing around pronounce and then the

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Speaker 2: printer's out of paper and I have to go find

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Speaker 2: the paper and like, oh my god. So it's been

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Speaker 2: It's so silly and it's so small, but I'm so

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Speaker 2: happy to then maybe have that hour back to spend

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Speaker 2: in the room talking to people, answering questions, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now that's a big win. And I imagine that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have. I mean, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: only aiming for one hour a week, Like one hour

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Speaker 1: a day might be hard for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: to engineer into their lives, but an hour a week

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's some meeting that has outlived its usefulness.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's a meeting that is useful but doesn't need

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Speaker 1: to take as much time as it's taking. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a meeting that you've been doing in person that actually

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Speaker 1: could be done by zoom and so you could minimize

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Speaker 1: the travel time. I mean, even if people are in

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Speaker 1: the same complex but you're on opposite sides of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can save ten minutes of walking back

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Speaker 1: and forth. If if it's something that's you know, an

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Speaker 1: already established relationship and it's more of a check in

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Speaker 1: as opposed to building a new relationship, it could be

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Speaker 1: that you spend a little bit less time on email.

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Speaker 1: I know that's a productivity drain for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people to feel like they are always in their inbox.

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Speaker 1: And so the question is do you actually need to

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00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: be always in your inbox? Are you doing that to yourself?

437
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying only check it once a day or

438
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: anything like that, but you might be able to check

439
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: I don't know four times a day or five or

440
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: six times a day, but five or six times a

441
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: day is very different from like in and out every

442
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: ten minutes. Over the course of an eight hour day,

443
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: which is what a lot of people, or.

444
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 2: Just keeping it open and then every time you're you

445
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 2: know what, lands at it and triage it like oh

446
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: my god and.

447
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you might be able to spend significantly

448
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 1: less time processing it if you are batching that task,

449
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: for instance. So or maybe there's something you've been doing

450
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: forever that you are a total rock star at and

451
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: it's really time to start training someone else on it.

452
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: Obviously they won't do it nearly as well as you

453
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,719
Speaker 1: the first time. Maybe they won't do it as well

454
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: as you the first ten times, but you know, by

455
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: eleventh time on, it's it's going to be a pretty

456
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: good substitute for what you are doing, and so that

457
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: can buy yourself an extra hour as well. So speaking

458
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: of other people, we work with, colleagues and stuff like that,

459
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: that is the second dimension because many times there's been

460
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: some fascinating research on this. And you know, Gallup asks

461
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: a question about whether you have a best work friend,

462
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: and it's one of the answers that is most highly

463
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: correlated with how engaged and satisfied people are with their jobs,

464
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: because the truth is, if you're spending time with somebody Monday,

465
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: through Friday that you would be willing to spend time

466
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: with after work, and on the weekends too, you get

467
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of that like happiness that you would

468
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: have had from the weekend in your weekday right that

469
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: you are actually enjoying the time you are spending at

470
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: work because you are enjoying this other person's company. Now,

471
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: I honest say, I don't know that you have to

472
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 1: have like a best friend, but having a group of

473
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: people that you truly enjoy hanging out with at work

474
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: can like massively increase your satisfaction. And this is not

475
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: just random. I mean sometimes like you meet someone wonderful

476
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: who just comes up and decides that they are going

477
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: to be your best friend, and it's great, But it

478
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: usually doesn't work like that. It's usually that you have

479
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: people that you genuinely like and then you try to

480
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: move them a little bit up the friendship ladder by

481
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 1: getting to know them, by arranging opportunities to see them

482
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: and things like that. So, Sarah, I know, I mean,

483
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: you obviously see your clinical colleagues just by virtue of

484
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,959
Speaker 1: being in the office a lot, but how have you

485
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: nurtured those relationships over time?

486
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't feel like I have one best work friend,

487
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: but I have a lot of good work friends, like

488
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 2: a lot. Like I have the ones at work, I

489
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: have ones that are actually at other institutions that are

490
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: more from training, that we connect on work matters every

491
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: once in a while and we get to hang out

492
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 2: in person conferences and stuff. But one thing I've done

493
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: that's been very like intentional and Amy, if you're listening

494
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: to this because you listened last time, Yes, I'm going

495
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: to break she said, Oh I heard you talk about

496
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: us on the podcast, so I'm going to do it

497
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: again on purpose. So we do Friday lunches and I'm

498
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: usually the one that sends a text that's like lunch

499
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: everyone that it goes out to, like several endocrinologists, some

500
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: in the adult world, some in the pediatric world. I

501
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: think we're going to add like an adult endosurgeon to

502
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: that list too. You have to have some endochronology angle.

503
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: It can be more inclusive Sarah's exclusive lunch clubs.

504
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: And sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't because we

505
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: have meetings are a late patient. But when it happens,

506
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: it's great, and it's just like a no brainer because

507
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: like we all have an easy place to eat, and

508
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: it's one of those things like you've decided it once

509
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: and then you can just like keep doing it. So

510
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: that's been really fun and I feel like has helped

511
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: deepen those relationships. And I also have to say my

512
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: colleague is like having that friendship with my clinical colleagues

513
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: can make really stressful times so much better. I feel

514
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 2: very lucky to work with the people that I work with,

515
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: and we do a few social things outside of work,

516
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: but we also always are there to support each other

517
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: when we need help, like how do I help treat

518
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: this patient or whatever. To be able to go to

519
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: someone that you really respect and also like it just

520
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: makes the whole.

521
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: Thing more fun.

522
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: And then on the podcasting side, Laura, I mean, we're

523
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: obviously like podcast besties, and then I also have like

524
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: made some other podcasting friends, so that's also super fun

525
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: and has just you know, made the whole thing more enjoyable.

526
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's exciting that I get to like chat with

527
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: Sarah for multiple hours per week. It's like something I

528
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: would enjoy doing even if I wasn't recording it. And

529
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: then we get to record it and turn it into

530
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: something that everyone else can listen to. As well, So yeah,

531
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: I mean think about ways you might do this. So

532
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: obviously a weekly lunch is great, Like Friday works for

533
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: Sarah because she's in the office that day. A lot

534
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 1: of people I know in more corporate jobs Fridays your

535
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: work from home day. So maybe it's third, right, that's

536
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: a good way that you kind of cap off the

537
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: week by meeting your work besties in person on Thursday.

538
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: You know, it might be just that you try to

539
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: grab coffee with the same group of people when you're

540
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: in the office in mid afternoon, or go for a

541
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: walk together. That's something that you could arrange. And obviously

542
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: doing a work project together is a good way to

543
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: guarantee that you will see that person a lot, you know,

544
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: and you can't always control this, like sometimes we get

545
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: staffed on things that are just because you are an

546
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: expert in this and your good friends are in something

547
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: totally different, so you're not going to wind up on

548
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: the same project. But if you ever can arrange it

549
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: so that you are working on something to gather, then

550
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: that will be a lot of time built into the day,

551
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: just as reality. So the next p progress we had

552
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: to make this all work together. Work is more satisfying

553
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: when it feels productive and you are looking forward to

554
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: the future. Right, So, two goals that we can do

555
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: in the next week or so. One is, could you

556
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: cross everything off your priority list for the week? And second,

557
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: do you have something coming up that you are genuinely

558
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: looking forward to? And I think both of those can

559
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: be helped by a good planning ritual. You know, longtime

560
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: listeners know, I try to plan my weeks on Fridays

561
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: or Thursdays, but toward the end of the working week,

562
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: looking forward to the next week, saying what is most

563
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: important for me to do, and then the goal is

564
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: to have all those things crossed off by the end

565
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: of next Friday, unless you know, I know I'm going

566
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: to do it on a Saturday or Sunday, in which

567
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: case that's fine, I can put it then, But to

568
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: end the week with all of those things crossed off,

569
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: because then that feels incredibly satisfying. Now, obviously, life happens.

570
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here debilitated in my bed. Not everything that

571
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: was supposed to happen this week has happened. But I

572
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: find though that if you know what is absolutely most important,

573
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: you can still get to those things even if you

574
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: don't get to everything, so that exercise of identifying what

575
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: would be absolutely most important, then you can still make

576
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: sure that you focus on those and whatever limited work

577
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: time you have. So even if your kids are homesick

578
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: from school or you've got snow days or whatever else,

579
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: you may have only done the three most important things,

580
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: but you've done them and so you still feel this

581
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: incredible sense of progress. So Sarah, you do that. I

582
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: know you have your planning rituals all carved out.

583
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I was going to say some of

584
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: that is just the awareness that you've thought about them,

585
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: that you did it and you've got it done, and

586
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: kind of giving yourself credit and celebrating because we often

587
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: forget to do that. But yeah, I think that you know,

588
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: we're humans. We are designed to like have quests and

589
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: then meet the quest and then get the next quest.

590
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: And you know there are exceptions to that. At different

591
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: times of life. Sometimes you may feel less driven by

592
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: this kind of thing. And then sometimes I think when

593
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: you are in one of those phases of life, you

594
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: can actually look for almost like metaprogress. Like so for example,

595
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: if you're like, I don't want to tackle anything, but

596
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: I have a newborn baby, and like my goal is

597
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: to just earn my paycheck for the next ever moerever

598
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: many months, or just like earn these paid time off

599
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: days that I'm going to use in a fun way

600
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: in the future. Like again, like that's not really what

601
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: we're getting at, but there are phases of life fore

602
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: sometimes you just kind of have to be really really

603
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: basic in what you're progressing to. And then even on

604
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: a micro level, I have always felt a weird comfort

605
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 2: in creating little checkboxes for every patient I see and

606
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: then checking them off throughout the day. I have no

607
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: idea like why this helps me, but I think it's

608
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: because I get to do something that like acknowledges my

609
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: sense of progress, and then I get to at the

610
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: end of the day, I see that like I did

611
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: all that I set out to do during that clinical day.

612
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think noticing your progress, acknowledging your progress,

613
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 2: and looking forward in different levels depending on where you

614
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: are in life can be appropriate.

615
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: And then making sure you always have something to look

616
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: forward to as well. I know I'm looking forward to

617
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: our hopefully upcoming retreat Sarah and I do regular podcasting

618
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 1: retreats where we plan the upcoming season, think about what

619
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: we're doing guests. We'd like to have topics. We want

620
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: to cover any sort of business related kind of things.

621
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: Hopefully I will be walking again, but then you.

622
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: Know, I might have to move it to Philadelphia. We'll see.

623
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: So if it would be in my bedroom, I really hope.

624
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: I have so much stuff I have to do over

625
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: the next two months, I cannot still be in my

626
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: bed bound. Oh my goodness, Oh dear, Well, there you go.

627
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: And then the last p is pleasure and work is

628
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: more fun when each day features little treats. And for

629
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: the vast majority of jobs, the easiest way to do

630
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: this is to take real, intentional breaks. Right, So, even

631
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: if the substance of your job isn't magical ballerina and

632
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: astronaut related actors, although both of those groups still have

633
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: to do all kinds of hard stuff and tedious stuff

634
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: in the course of their lives. Like don't get me wrong,

635
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: it may sound magical, but I'm sure they are also

636
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: in meetings and doing administrative stuff and hours of training

637
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: for whatever. But you know, just that you have little

638
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: breaks in the course of the day where you do

639
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: something that you truly love. So your goal for the

640
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: week is to create a break portfolio for each day.

641
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: So look at your schedule, think roughly, where could I

642
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: schedule in two tiny breaks and one lunch. What would

643
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: this ideally look like, what would the rhythm be, and

644
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: what would you do on those breaks that would be

645
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: enjoyable to you? So, Sarah, you you know you've tried

646
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: to be pretty good about your lunch breaks over the years.

647
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: Yes, although confession is that my current lunch break a

648
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: lot of times I take a break from my clinical

649
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: job to write a blog post. So I'm like taking

650
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: a break from one job to do another. But I

651
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: enjoy writing boost stuff. It's it's fun stuff, right, and

652
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: I usually have time leftover to then like that's when

653
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: I browse other people's blogs for my first patient rooms.

654
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 3: So that's my current. In the past, I've done walking.

655
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: I don't do that currently because I run so much

656
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: in the morning, I like don't.

657
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: Need to move after that generally.

658
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: And then I have little micro breaks that I take

659
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: sometimes where I do duo lingo because that only takes

660
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: about ten minutes. And then social breaks just be like, okay,

661
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: let me walk around and see what everybody is up to,

662
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: especially on a Friday, you want to like say hi

663
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: to everyone, see what they're doing on the weekend. So

664
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: sometimes my breaks are as simple as like just literally

665
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: do a lap around the office.

666
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: Then I can stop at the bathroom.

667
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Too, multipurpose break there. Yeah, you have to deal with

668
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: the biology as well, you know. I definitely like listening

669
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: to my bock. That's so listening to inspiring music is

670
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: something that you could do during a little break in work.

671
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: I was doing stretches when I was mobile. We'll see

672
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: how the back exercises come back into my life. They will,

673
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: But taking a little break on that one, I like

674
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: to go for a walk around my yard. We've got

675
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: some nice tree areas that I can get into from

676
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: my yard, and so I definitely like to go through

677
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: that and sort of observe the changing seasons. It's all

678
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: snowy now, but in the summer it'll be all green,

679
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: so it's very different to see the same nature. And

680
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: going for a walk is always a mood booster. Try

681
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: and have lunch with If my husband is working from home,

682
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: we'll try to take lunch at the same time so

683
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: we can hang out and that's always a nice thing

684
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: to do. But obviously if you are in an office,

685
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, having lunch with a friend, going for a walk,

686
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, listening to music or reading something inspiring. Those

687
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: are all ways that you can put little doses of

688
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: pleasure into your day. So really put some thought into

689
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: this into your break portfolio over the week, and I

690
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: think you'll find yourself liking your job a lot more

691
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: so for dimensions, remember passion, trying to spend an hour

692
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: more on the stuff you like and an hour less

693
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: on the stuff you don't like. People, making sure that

694
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: you see the people you like at your job and

695
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: trying to move them a little bit up the friendship

696
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: ladder through learning more about them and spending more time together.

697
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: Progress setting your priority list for the week and getting

698
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: through ever it, all of it, and making sure you

699
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: have something that you are looking forward to in your

700
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: working life. And then pleasure in terms of taking your

701
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: break portfolio over the course of the day. So I

702
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: think all of that might help you like your job

703
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: a little bit more.

704
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: I love it.

705
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: And now we're going to pivot entirely because our question

706
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: this week has absolutely nothing to do with loving your job,

707
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: but we thought it was a fun question, So we're

708
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: going to include it. So this was a question that

709
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: was sent primarily to Laura since you'll see why in

710
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: a second, which is basically tell us about the dog.

711
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: What are the pros and cons of getting a dog?

712
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 2: How much of the dog is your responsibility? And do

713
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: you regret getting a dog?

714
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: Tread carefully on that. I know we have a ton

715
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: of dog lovers listening to this podcast, and there are

716
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: a lot of dog lovers in the world. I have

717
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: never been a dog person, you know, I didn't grow

718
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: up with one. It's not something that I was ever

719
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: excited about doing. My husband did grow up with dogs

720
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: and sort of felt like this was something that he

721
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: wanted our kids to experience. You know. Kids, of course

722
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: always love the idea of having a dog, like that's

723
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: just it's often kids lobbying for it, but there's sort

724
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: of the trope of the kid's lobby for it, and

725
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: then they don't do the work of taking care of

726
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: the dog. And I think in many families what winds

727
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: up happening is because mom is more flexible, or is

728
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: home more or whatever else, or is just more responsible,

729
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: she winds up doing the vast majority of the work.

730
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: Whoever wanted the dog, now I can say in my

731
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: family that has not happened because I was very very

732
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: clear at the outset, this is my husband's dog. I mean,

733
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm here like so, yes, I guess I'm a dog

734
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: mom too, but he is primarily responsible for it, so

735
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: he walks the dog or he has our children do

736
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: it now if he is gone for the day, right,

737
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: because obviously he has a job, and as do I,

738
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm more off and here at the house.

739
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: If he's working from home, he is the one who

740
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: takes the dog out. If he is not working from home,

741
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: he often either leaves a little bit later so the

742
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: dog can go and tell our kids are home from school,

743
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: and then our fourteen year old is responsible for the dog.

744
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: If my husband is not here, he has gone to

745
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: doggy daycare. So if my husband is working in the

746
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: office two days a week, sometimes he'll just bring the

747
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: dog to doggy daycare two times a week, which, by

748
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: the way, Max loves doggy daycare. So you know, I

749
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: know some people would feel guilt about putting their kids

750
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: in daycare. People feel guilt about putting their dogs in daycare.

751
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: Let me just say that he is the times I've

752
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: brought him, he is racing out of the car to

753
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: try to get into this place. He's so excited, So

754
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: there's really no guilt with this. And then if my

755
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: husband is traveling for multiple days, we will also actually

756
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: sometimes send the dog over to his favorite dog sitter,

757
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: which again one might feel guilt about this, but the

758
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: dog sitter is often caring for two or three dogs

759
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: at a time, and so Max is like it's a party.

760
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: He is so excited he is bounding out of the

761
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: car to get to her house and playing with his

762
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: friends there. So what this means is that while I

763
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: do wind up taking care of Max, sometimes it is

764
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: not really always my responsibility. And so if you are

765
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: not the one who wants the dog, I think you

766
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: need to be very clear about your boundaries with how

767
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: the care will happen for it. Now, in the case

768
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: of this listener, it turns out that she is the

769
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: one who really wants the dog and her husband is

770
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: way way more mixed on this concept. And in similar

771
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: fashion to us, her husband is the one who works

772
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: from home. So I said, you know, you need to

773
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: have a conversation with him about this, like what he

774
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: is willing to do, because by default it would be

775
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: his job unless you specifically figure out something else. And

776
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: so I think they're going to work out a system

777
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: as well where the dog goes to doggy daycarea of

778
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: few times a week and then the dog is home

779
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: when she is home because she can work from home

780
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: at least once or twice a week as well, and

781
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: so kids can help too. Just keep in mind that

782
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: kids are at school from like eight to four each

783
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: day and general, and a dog is going to need

784
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: to be walked at least once in there, I mean,

785
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: just for exercise and for sanitation. So you're gonna either

786
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: have to hire someone to do it, the person who

787
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: works from home is gonna have to do it, or're

788
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: gonna have to figure out something else. To just be

789
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: very clear on this and then so everyone is on

790
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: board with it.

791
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 3: We're not getting into a dog.

792
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: Yes, Sarah, You're not getting a dog. No. Not hard

793
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: so hard no.

794
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: In the younger household, hard no for now, hard no

795
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 3: for now.

796
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: At one point when the kids were much younger, I

797
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: was like, twenty twenty four, we could get a.

798
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: Dog, ha ha.

799
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: Around twenty twenty two, I was like, twenty twenty four,

800
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: we will not get a dog.

801
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: Similarly, I'm not really a dog person. I'm sorry.

802
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: It doesn't make me a horrible human. I love individual dog,

803
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: Like you know, my sister's dog is super cute, My

804
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: in livees dog is super cute, but I don't personally

805
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: want one. I know how much work it is, I

806
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: know how much time my husband has, I know how

807
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: my kids will handle this, and it's just not going

808
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: to work for us. Now. I could totally see the

809
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 2: benefits of a dog, like when my kids have grown up,

810
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: and like we have much more flexible schedules together because

811
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: I think for certain people, like it gets them outside,

812
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: it gets them active, it might get them social and

813
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 2: ways they wouldn't otherwise. So I'm not ruling out a

814
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: dog in my lifetime, but not in this season. Just

815
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: in case anyone was curious, But your dog is awesome,

816
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: don't worry.

817
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: I love your dog, yeah exactly. You know. Yeah, so

818
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: just go in with your eyes open. That's what I

819
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: was saying. Like, you know, kids will help, but they

820
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: usually have to be asked. You need an adult who

821
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: is primarily responsible. And if the adult who would be

822
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: more flexible is not the one who is excited about

823
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: the dog, you need to make sure that you reach

824
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: a situation where that person is not going to be

825
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: resentful of what's going on, because obviously, once the dog

826
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: is part of the family, they're there and they're to

827
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: be there for many years. So you know, you want

828
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: everyone to be happy with the setup. So Love of

829
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: the Week. I'm not currently experiencing this right now as

830
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in my bed, but in my home office

831
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: when I can make it down there, I have a

832
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: gas fireplace. It's this old library. It was this you know,

833
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 1: we renovated this historic house a couple of years ago,

834
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: and so it's the old library space that I've turned

835
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: into my home office. And so it's so wonderful just

836
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: to be able to click on a remote and have

837
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: a fire in my office and it's very cozy if

838
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm like reading or doing some sort of deep writing

839
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: work and like, ah, I feel like I'm inspired just

840
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: by the flames going.

841
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 3: I even like those Netflix fireplace scene.

842
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: It's treat to turn that on.

843
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: We had a fireplace in Miami Beach, which is hilarious

844
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: and it got used like five It was a gas fireplace.

845
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: We probably used it five times a year.

846
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: But even though you could just start it on with

847
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: a remote or with a click, like.

848
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a remote exactly. Yeah, but even then

849
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,959
Speaker 2: there was no reason. No, it was hot, like why.

850
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: Would it hot?

851
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 2: Okay, why would you why would you put a fire? Yeah,

852
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: it was not just a visual. It was like it

853
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: had a gas thing, so it was going to heat

854
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: your area, and that we just didn't have a need

855
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,959
Speaker 2: for that all that. Often, my love of the week

856
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: is my work colleagues and the fact that we're having

857
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: a karaoke night soon. Karaoke so fun. It's especially fun

858
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: with work colleagues, and I'm looking forward to it.

859
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: What's your go to karaoke song?

860
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: Sarah latyslav by Madonna?

861
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: Excellent, good choice, good choice. All right, Well, this has

862
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: been best of both worlds. We've been talking about how

863
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: to love your job again. Hopefully people have gotten a

864
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: few ideas from this about, you know, ways you can

865
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 1: just increase the good stuff, maybe dial down a little

866
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: bit of the bad stuff that's inevitable in every job,

867
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: and feel some new energy towards your work in this

868
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: new year. So we will be back next week with

869
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 1: more on making work and life fit together.

870
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.

871
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

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00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.

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00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This

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00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: has been the.

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00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 3: Best of both worlds podcasts.

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00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: Please join us next time for more on making work

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Speaker 1: and life work together.