WEBVTT - #182 Jason Flom with Felipe Rodriguez 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.280 It was Thanksgiving the eve in nineteen eighty seven, and 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:08.119 after visiting her daughter at Wykoff Hospital in Queen's Maureene 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.840 Fernandez went to a few of her usual bars with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.960 a man who was unfamiliar to the other bar patrons. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.160 The next morning, her body was found in an empty 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.800 lot next to a stretch of the Long Island Railroad. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.279 She had been stabbed thirty five times. Investigators spoke with 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.960 the bar patrons and a night watchman near the empty lot, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.480 who described a white Cadillac type car leaving the lot 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.480 at four am. The detectives began looking into people who 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.800 worked at the hospital, and it turned out that a 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.920 security guard named Tavier Ramos owned a white Oldsmobile. Detectives 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.320 leaned hard on Ramos, extracting a confession about lending his 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.360 car to a friend named Richard Pereira. Ramos claimed Pereira 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.600 had returned the vehicle with a mysterious red liquid on 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.279 the passenger's side and admitted to the murder before Ramos 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.960 thoroughly cleaned the car. When Perrera was cleared in a lineup, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.360 police arranged for Pereira to record a conversation with Ramos, 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.240 who admits to making up the story, even admitting that 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.000 his car battery was dead the night of the murder. 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:16.200 But instead of switching directions, the cops interrogate Ramos again, 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:21.440 extracting the same story with a new suspect, Felipe Rodriguez, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.119 without the Perrera recording being presented at trial. Felipe ended 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.080 up spending over twenty six years in prison after being 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.520 identified by a man who knew nothing about the murder 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.760 of a woman whom Felipe had never even met. This 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:54.880 is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.400 Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:56.880 That's me. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.520 I'm your host, and today I am well you can 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.400 probably hear. I'm excited because we have not one, but 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.640 two of my favorite human beings on the show today. First, 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.680 Nina Morrison is the senior litigation attorney at the Innocence 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.440 Project in New York and just an all around certified 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:20.359 badass lawyer, human mom, person, friend, and so Nina, I'm 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:21.800 really excited to have you back on. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.239 Welcome Thanks Jason. Great to be back. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.760 And now, in our tradition of saving the best for last, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:32.799 we have one of the kindest, gentlest, funniest and best 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.640 dressed humans that you're ever going to come across. So, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.440 Felipe Rodriguez, welcome to wrongful conviction. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.120 Thank you, Jesson, I appreciate it. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.120 Felipa, Let's start at the beginning. You grew up in 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:43.079 Puerto Rico, right. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.120 Yes, I was born in Ponsa, Puerto Rico, on August fifteen, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:48.120 nineteen sixty five. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.960 And you came to New York and at what time? 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.840 I actually came to New York with my mother and 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.840 my stepfather late seventies. I was like thirteen or fourteen 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:57.320 years old. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.560 Can you just describe to us what your life was 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.200 like before for this incident in nineteen eighty seven. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:07.680 In nineteen eighty five, I actually got married to my 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.040 now ex wife, Godus Rodriguez, and I had a kid 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.840 with her, Felippe Willando Diriguez Junior. He was born on 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.400 July second, nineteen eighty six. By eighty six, I started 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.280 working for a subcontracting company for the City of New York. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.959 I was getting paid good, I had good health care, 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.240 so I was being pretty well for myself. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.240 And then you were implicated in a murder that you 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.240 had absolutely nothing to do with. And this particular murder 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.320 was really gruesome, Nina. Can you take us back to 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:45.760 the crime itself and how they came to say settle 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.160 because they settled on Felipe. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.440 Yeah, Felipe wasn't arrested and charged for this crime until 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.240 sixteen months after the victim in this case, Marine Fernandez, 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.480 was murdered. As you mentioned, it was an extraordinarily brutal crime. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.680 She was stabbed thirty five times and her body was 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.240 found in a deserted lot in Queens, New York, near 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:11.040 the Long Island railroad tracks behind a food warehouse. Her 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.880 body was actually found on Thanksgiving morning. She had been 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.560 at a local hospital visiting her two year old daughter, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.560 who was in the hospital the night before, went out 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.840 to a bar with a man that the other bar 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.280 patrons didn't recognize, but it was a bar that she 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.960 went to with some frequency, left there around two in 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.479 the morning and was never seen again. You know, we 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.920 get a lot of cases, Jason, where there's some reasonable 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.400 evidence pointing to our clients as a suspect, and then 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:41.080 later through DNA or further investigation or advanced science some 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.640 other evidence, we find the picture changes. And when we 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.320 at the Innocence Project took on Felipe's case. It was 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.720 just so clear that this investigation was pointing far away 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.960 from Felipe for the beginning, and eventually, sixteen months later, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.200 when they had no viable suspect, the police just decided 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.600 to coerce witnesses and harsh Felipe. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.280 The police had the description of the most likely culprit 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:04.920 from the bar patrons, right. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:05.120 You know. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.279 The thing that was so obvious was that the man 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.800 who was with the victims Fernandez at the bar, did 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.000 not remotely resemble Felibe. Felibe as your desk can see 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.440 if they google him as a tall, slender, very dark haired, 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.600 handsome man of Puerto Rican descent. And yet the man 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.280 at the bar, who was the last person to come 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.440 to the bar with and leave with the victim, the 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:33.440 obvious likely suspect, was described by witnesses as white or Italian, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.640 clean shaven. Felipe, had a black mustache, stocky, which Felipe 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.599 definitely is not and never was, and had reddish brown 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.719 hair with hazel eyes. I mean, the list goes on 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:45.279 and on. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.400 One of the patrons at the bar, Robert Thompson, who 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.960 was heavily intoxicated, said that he had tried to sell 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.800 a watch to Maureen Fernandez and the man she was with. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:59.400 And then this Thompson described the potential perpetrator's hands as large, 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.280 calloused and wearing rings. Then later on he sort of 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.760 agreed with the detectives that the man may have had 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.280 writing on his left hand. Again, you wouldn't want to 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.600 hang a murder conviction on this. And then there's this 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.360 Peter Saloni guy. He was a night watchman at the 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.480 food wholesaler near the empty lot where the body was found, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.599 and he told police that he witnessed a white car 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.839 with a loane mail driver leaving the warehouse area at 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.560 four am. He said the car may have been a 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.440 nineteen eighties era a Cadillac. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.919 There wasn't really any evidence that anybody's white car was 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.039 necessarily the car used in this crime. The security guard 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.359 thought he saw a white car with a loan driver 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.040 leaving the warehouse area around four am. No one knows 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.680 what time miss Fernandez was brought there or when she 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.039 was killed. There were different reports about when she left 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.279 the bar, and originally the investigation focused on a black car, 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.839 which had a much closer connection to the crime. Because 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:59.640 several witnesses describes seeing an unfamiliar shiny black Monte Carlo 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.760 with windows outside the bar, and people started suggesting to 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.400 police that maybe the perpetrator drove her to and from 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.200 the bar in that car. And it was only when 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.480 six eight months later the case remained unsolved that suddenly 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.440 a new detective on the case, Jack Baizel, said, oh, well, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.000 maybe it was the white car seen by the security guard, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.760 And from that little read of a hypothesis, they reverse 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.040 engineered a case designed to find anyone they could with 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.360 a connection to Whycoff Hospital who happened to have a 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.360 white car of that general description. 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:39.680 So the detectives began looking at the staff of the hospital, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.320 that this poor woman had been visiting her sick child 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.000 at a pediatric ward because people were staying around the neighborhood, 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.120 that it was like a pickup spot, which is bizarre 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.800 in itself, but okay. So the detective started talking about 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.920 the staff and there was a security guard named Javier 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.840 Ramos who had a white Oldsmobile at the time of 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:58.640 the murder. Not a cadillact, but he had gotten off 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.760 work at the hospital at midnight on the night of 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.560 the murder, and a few months later in February or 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.720 March of nineteen eighty eight, Ramos had sold the Oldsmobile 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.240 to another staffer, a guy named Pedro Sierra, and he 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.040 had painted the roof of the Oldsmobile red, and Soloney, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.440 the night watchman guy, was taken to the area where 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.120 the car formerly owned by Ramos was parked. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.240 They drove him around the block, passed it several times, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.520 and he didn't pick it out, and then by self 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.480 finally says to him or detective said to him, Hey, 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.240 if that car didn't have a red roof, could it 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.840 have been the car? And he said probably maybe, like 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.840 an eight out of ten. So that's not exactly an unbiased, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.560 spontaneous identification of the car. It's about a suggestive and 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:43.640 equivocal as you get. 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:48.760 And then Detective by Zell aggressively interrogated and intimidated, i 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:53.960 would say Ramos for hours and hours, and finally the 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.079 interrogation ended when Ramos told the story that they wanted 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.559 to hear, and he signed a statement not implicating Felipe, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.599 but a friend and coworker named Richard. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.200 Pereira Ramas's original story implicating Peera said Terrera bar in 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.079 the car brought it back on Thanksgiving morning, there was 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.880 a reddish stain in the car. It smelled terrible, and 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.720 that Pererra allegedly said to him that he had to 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.560 stab some bitch to show her that he was a 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.560 man and not some boy. So essentially admitted to a murder, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.280 and it was a very damning statement. The problem is 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.679 it was completing it up. The police bring in Richie. 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.640 We don't know the full extent of the investigation they did, 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.599 but we know that he was not picked out of 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.800 a lineup by any of the eyewitnesses from the bar 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.080 or by the security guard, and for that or for 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.080 other reasons, they decided Ramus had given them the wrong guy. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.000 So they go back to Ramos and they work him over, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.679 and they work him over, but before they do that, 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:52.560 they go to Perrera and they say, hey, Ramos implicated you. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.080 We think Ramos might be the killer. Can you wear 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:57.920 a wire and go talk to him. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:09:58.520 Now. 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.680 None of this was heard by Felipe jury. This didn't 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.640 come out till after he was convicted. But Ramos was 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.880 taped by Pererra, the man he falsely implicated, essentially admitting 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.400 he made up the whole story, and on this audio tape, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.280 that none of the jurors ever heard. Ramo said, look, 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.200 the cops were coming at me and coming at me. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.840 It was going to be me or you, and I 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.559 had to give them somebody or else I was going 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:22.960 to go to prison for the rest of my life. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.319 And then he said, my car wasn't even working that day, 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.960 the battery was dead, and there was no blood on 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.840 the cushion. That was juice that my girlfriend's kid spilled there. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.319 He admitted the whole thing was fabricated, not just naming Pereira, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.480 but the whole entire story, and Felipe's jury never heard that. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:46.680 What they did here at Felipe's trial was that Ramos 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.760 gave another version of that statement implicating Felipe. The only 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.520 two differences in that statement were one, and most importantly, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.600 he switched the names. So he gave the exact same statement. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.480 But he said, oh, it was actually Felipe Rodriguez who 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.000 brought the car back to me that morning and said 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.600 all these terrible things, not Richie Perreira. Okay, So to 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.560 believe he's telling the truth, you have to believe he 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.160 implicated one innocent man to protect another man, Felipe Rodriguez, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.080 not exactly the most reliable witness in the world. In addition, 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.959 another thing that always jumped out at us is that 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:23.400 Ramo said in his second statement that he cleaned the 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.040 car himself. In his first statement, the false one implicating 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.520 Richie Perreira, he said that his grandfather helped him clean 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.160 the car, and suddenly, in the second statement, the grandfather disappears. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.480 Grandfather never testifies a trial, and to this day we 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.240 have never seen a single piece of paper indicating whether 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.760 the police ever talked to the grandfather and Jason, I 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.160 probably don't need to connect the dots for your very 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.000 crime savvy listeners, or even the ones who aren't right, Like, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.040 the first thing you would do as a rookie cop 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.720 if somebody says, oh, I cleaned blood off of a 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.360 vehicle that was used in a grisly murder and this 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.400 person helped me, is you'd go find that person and 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.160 interview them and see if they corroborate or contradict what 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.360 this witness has just told you. And the fact that 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.960 there is no record of them talking to the grandfather, 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.040 along with the fact that we now now Remos made 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.120 it all up, leads me to the conclusion that the 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.960 police absolutely talked to him, and that he told them 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.640 my grandson's full of you know what, I never went 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.800 near a stinky, bloody carr or else I would have 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.440 called the cops. So they took that detail out of 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.720 the second statement, but everything else he subbed one name 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.400 for another, and in the second statement he subbed in 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.880 an innocent man who did twenty seven years in prison 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.720 for a crime commit Felipe. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.920 Had you even heard about it when they came to me, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:40.839 that was the first I heard it, and I was 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:41.640 shocked us out. 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.559 So they put Felipe in a live lineup, and they 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.000 brought in several of the people from the bar, and 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.040 none of them identified Filipe except for the one guy 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.360 who had admitted that he was drunk as a skunk 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.280 that night, and you would have to be drunk as 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.959 a skunk to except a guy who's described as Italian 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.079 five eight with reddish brown hair and chunky with a 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.480 guy who's slender five eleven, jet black hair and a mustache. Well, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:15.880 with Ramos's statement and Thompson's identification, that they felt was 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.120 enough to indict Felipe for murder. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.040 You know, I was truly truly baffled of why me. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.160 Felipe also passed a polygraph denying his involvement and was 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.920 released on bail pre trial, which again gives me some 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.079 indication that they didn't think he was that dangerous or 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.560 they wouldn't have sent it back to the neighborhood. And 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.520 then there was the issue with the trial itself. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:38.800 Right. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:44.400 So, originally Felipe was represented by Kenneth Litwack, but then 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.760 replaced by an attorney named Jennifer Miolo. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.400 As we later found out, she was defending Felibe with 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.600 one hand time behind her back because there was a 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.920 lot of evidence of his innocence that she never got. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.400 Some of the best lawyers in the world will lose 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.600 trials when the prosecution doesn't play fair and the police 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.559 don't play fair, and they don't get all the evidence 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:06.559 that they're entitled to get. 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.600 And that was exactly the situation that was happening here 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.360 in April nineteen ninety. Your trial was held in the 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.719 Queen's County Supreme Court, and I know that Ramos repeated 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.160 his false narrative about lending his car to Felipe man 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.200 He said that he had delayed reporting the crime and 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.920 initially shifted the blame to Peric because Felipe was quote 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.200 like a brother to me. I mean, the whole thing stinks. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.520 As you know, many jurors, when they show up for 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.800 jury duty, assume that the police have it right, that 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.080 the person who's charged with the crime wouldn't be sitting 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.920 there if they weren't guilty, and despite the legal burden 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.840 of innocent until proven guilty, in reality it's often just 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.960 the opposite, where jurors assume the person is guilty, and 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.240 if there's any evidence to support that conclusion, they often 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.400 latch onto that evidence. And so I can see a 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.760 world where a man who represents himself to be a 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.240 close friend of Felipe's, claims to be like a other 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.720 to him, comes in and says I didn't want to 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.640 turn him in, but I had to because it was 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.120 the right thing to do. Never mind that he implicated 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.320 another admittedly innocent person in between might give them what 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.680 they need, or they might have been swayed by just 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.360 the horrible glory nature of the crime and not want 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:17.520 to let it go unsolved. 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.440 So the prosecution calls these two witnesses that claim to 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.880 have seen the writing on Felipe's hands in the past 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.200 This also seems just so dicey. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.320 You know, it's a sign of how thin the case 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.000 was that they're relying on things like a witness twenty 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.440 months later who says she thought she saw something written 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.760 on Felipe's hands. That happens to match something that another 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.160 drunk witness said ten months after the crime that he 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.440 thought he saw written on Felipe's hand. And that's really 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.840 emblematic of just how weak a case this was. But 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.280 and the other key piece of it was that the 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.960 police witnesses testified really to back up the whole theory 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.520 about the white car. You know, the prosecution was allowed 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.400 to walk detectives by cell and Sullivan through the investigation. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.160 Oh and also they had the bartender who would initially 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.000 not picked flee bad of a lineup, came into court 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.120 and said, oh, yeah, that's the guy. And between the 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.800 white car ramas, the testimony, some of the other incredibly 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.520 shaky IDs and some dubious testimony about writing and things 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.320 Felipe allegedly said, and that was enough to send this 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.000 man away for what could have been the rest. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:19.400 Of his life. 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.480 Felipe was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.240 twenty five years to life in prison. 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.040 When they said that they had found me guilty of 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.600 murdering the second degree, my niece buckled. Man, I put 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.320 both of my hands on the table and I just 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.440 it was a rough day. Man. It was at that 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:44.720 time I was married to Loida Castinero, and all I 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:50.760 heard was her screams. It was like a scream when 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:58.000 somebody dies. And then the judge said, you're remanded, and 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:04.800 he told the user to take meant cross city, and 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.800 that's what the whole thing. Maybe can. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.679 This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.440 Together is a philanthropic community dedicated to helping people improve 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.440 their lives. For more than twenty years, Stand Together and 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.840 its partners have been on the front lines of criminal 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.399 justice reform. By empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits, 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.200 and working with businesses, Stand Together tackles the root causes 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.080 of problems in our communities and empowers those closest to 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.560 the problems to drive solutions. Solutions like reducing unjust prison 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.480 sentences through the First Step Act, empowering community based programs 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.679 and help people re enter society, and now working to 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.160 bridge divides in our communities to learn how you may 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.800 get involved. Visit Standtogether dot org slash conviction. 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.680 I was twenty three twenty four. One of the first 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.879 Mexican security persons that I arrived at was Great Metals 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:15.200 Correctional Facility better known as Gladiator School or Comstock. There 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:21.399 I seen the violence, the homosexuality, the drugs, the gangs, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.520 and I said, how can I pulled myself out of 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.520 this dungeon safely and returned to my son. So the 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:34.840 first few months were crucial. I prayed a lot, I 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.440 cried a lot. That was nice when you know, I 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.600 put myself to sleep crying thinking about my son and 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.480 you know who was being dead for him. I was angry, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.640 of course, I was angry. I was angry at the system. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.680 I was angry that I was thrown in prison for 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.159 twenty five to life for something I haven't done. And 0:18:55.200 --> 0:19:00.240 I was completely confused on how I was going to 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:05.760 solve this mystery. But quickly I understood that in order 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:10.000 for me to think clearly, in order for me to 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.440 see things for what they were, I needed to forgive everybody. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.520 I needed to take all hatred, I needed to take 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.879 all resentment, and I needed to get that out of 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.840 my system. So that I won't get more hurt than 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.000 what I was already, because you know, most people don't 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.080 understand hatred, resentment. All that does. It hurts you, It 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.800 doesn't hurt the person you're angry at, because the person 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.240 you're angry at is actually in their hour, sleeping or 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.720 having fun with their family while you are doing in 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.560 all this madness. So very early in my incarceration, I 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.320 got rid of all that, and I devoted myself to 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.879 giving thanks to God for me being healthy and alive 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.600 and asking him to protect my son. And I started 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.120 learning and reading every book i'd get my hands on, 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.720 and it was a hell of a quest. For sure. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.959 I can't picture you in this gladiator school, but you 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.879 turned it into positivity. But then there was still so 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.040 much more to come, right, and we're going to go 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.959 quickly through the proceedings. In the early nineties. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.840 Felipe got appointed some terrific lawyers from the Legal Aids 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.840 Society for his initial round of appeals right after his conviction. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.359 Right, and this is Martin Lucente, of course, of the 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.840 Legal Aid Society. We're talking about a very very talented lawyer, and. 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.960 They very quickly through some catching a reference to it 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.080 in another report, discovered that this tape of the lead 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.199 witness against Felipe Javier Ramos existed, was in the state's 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.439 possession and had never been turned over. So they got 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.440 to copy the tape in which Ramos admits to making 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.680 up the whole story about the car and the bloodstains 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.760 and his car and having it to the battery. And 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.399 they go to a hearing. And as we've seen so 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.439 many times, when you go to a hearing with a 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.600 claim that the prosecution withheld evidence you're supposed to have, 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.399 it's a very hard claim to win because the prosecutor 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.360 will often come in and say, well, I turned it over, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.199 I handed it to the defense layer, I gave it 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.960 to her. And that's exactly what he said here. And 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.320 at the end of the day, the judge's decision denying 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.280 Felipe a new trial didn't say this wasn't significant evidence. 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.240 He never says, oh, this wouldn't have made a difference anyway, 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.400 it was so obvious how important it is. He says, 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.439 I find that there's not enough proof or evidence that 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.480 it wasn't disclosed. I'm not going to call the prosecutor 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.040 a liar. So essentially he's saying that maybe Felipe's trial 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.280 or or missed it, but you know, she was cross 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.440 examining Ramo's pretty hard. It's something that would have been 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.960 almost impossible to miss if she'd had this kind of 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.840 ammo to cross examine him further about making it up. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.920 So he lost that round, but it was still more 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.159 evidence that, by the time the Innocence Project took the 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:01.080 case was on record, further undermining this already incredible conviction. 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:05.680 So none of these initial emotions or appeals led to 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:07.600 the result that they should have, which is of course 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.720 for Philip to come home. And then it comes to 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.360