WEBVTT - Walter Massey 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.400 One of the most overused phrases I found is renaissance man. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.399 But it's not overused or inappropriate for one person I 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.360 met with recently, Walter Massey. Walter Massey has been the 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 leader of Morehouse College, the University of California, University of Chicago, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.639 the Art Institute, the National Science Foundation, are Gone Labs, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:24.880 and now he's leading the effort to get the giant 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.960 Magellan telescope funded by the US government and by private institutions. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:30.880 I sat down with him recently at the University of 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.480 Chicago to talk about what he's most proud of having 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.960 achieved in this incredible life he's had. Dr Massey, you 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.159 have been, I would say, a renaissance man. You've been 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.199 involved in education, the arts, business, science. Of all the 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.400 things you've done in your incredible career, what is it 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.200 that you're most proud of? Well, I'm actually I'm proud 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.000 of all of those things. I think the position that 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.640 has given him more satisfaction going back to more House College, 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.600 which is my alma made as president. I went back 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.120 in nineteen and my wife, Sherln and I, when we 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.920 talk about the various things we've done, we agreed that 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.600 that was a lot of fun, but as I said, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.840 satisfying a number of ways to go back to your 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.280 mo mata and to preside over their graduation. A little 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.280 about five thousand African American man, Let's talk about your 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.280 background for a moment um. You grew up in Mississippi 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.040 when it was very segregated. What was it like growing 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.840 up in Mississippi and that my nineteen forties and fifties. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.760 My mother was a school teacher, him elementary school principal 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.720 of an odd who's a school teacher. I didn't know 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.280 what I wanted to be, but I didn't want to 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.000 be a school teacher. I thought I might want to 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.400 be an engineer. I have no idea. I don't think 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.400 I just heard the word engineer. I knew I would 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.680 go probably go to college because even in Mississippi in 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.880 those days, um my family went off to college mostly 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:02.920 in Mississippi and Mississippi. I didn't know I would wind 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.800 up in more House, and that was serendipity. A lot 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.680 of my life has been. It's one of the scholarship 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.400 that allowed me to go from the tenth grade to 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.200 more House, and that would have changed my life. But 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.600 you grew up in an all segregated area. I assume 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.320 that you were not going to launches and dinners with 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.799 whites at that time. No, No, The only lunches and 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.880 dinners became close to was working in the kitchen. My 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.040 grandmother was word as a domestic, and even my mother, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.680 who worked as an elementary school elementary school teacher and 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.320 principal in the summers, sometimes worked as a domestic. We 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:45.519 were totally segregated, segregated sounds to a mile. It was apartheid, 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.080 like did you worry it for your safety and life? 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.880 At times? Not constantly. You one had to be careful, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:53.960 and you would. There were things you knew you were 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.720 not to do from a very young age. White women 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.360 were very dangerous like man also, but in particular things 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.520 white girls and white women you would There were places 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.760 you didn't go. Um So there were modes of behavior 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.320 which you expect that you learned to adapt to. But 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.079 I didn't wake up every more and think thinking I 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.640 would be lynched. We lived in a community that was 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:26.600 a fairly warm community, had a big family, cousins all 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.960 lived all around me, and I would say, in spite 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.960 of the harsh segregation around us, within our bubble, you 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:36.960 might say, as much as you would keep it. I 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.920 had a good childhood. You got a scholarship to go 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.040 to more Morehouse when it was you would only completed 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.840 the tenth grade. So what happened to the eleventh and 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.160 twelfth grade? Did? You didn't need that? You went to 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.160 Morehouse once you're kind of young to get to college. 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.240 I was sixteen and I was part of a program, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.840 so I wasn't the only one that was about it 0:03:57.880 --> 0:03:59.680 has been going on for three years, and I was 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.320 in the third you have this experiment and uh, that 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.040 was about fifteen of us in my group, and there 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.720 had been some before. So the college had sort of 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.920 adjusted to these young kids coming in who didn't have couses. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.719 So we had good counselors, had very good teachers, and 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.440 evidently we were smart. I didn't know it because, uh, 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.920 we were able to not just survive, but we were 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.359 were I would say we were some of the most 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.800 accomplished students in the college. Okay, so you go to 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.200 more House, uh, and you decide you want to major 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.520 in physics. So it was had a very popular major 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.680 at more House at the time. I was the only 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.960 physics major for my intil four years. In my class 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.120 that was one before me, if one before here? And 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:50.600 what did you tell your parents you were gonna be 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.480 a physics major? What did they say? My parents were 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.320 very good. Uh. My mother, I think would have wanted 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.240 me to be the typical mother to be a doc. Uh. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.720 And I got a PhD was something, But they were 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.040 comfortable with whatever I showed. I came to physics through mathematics. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.120 I was not a tinker. I was not a person 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.719 who did experiments, and in fact that was not that 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.880 attracted to laboratory science. But I like mathematics and I 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.640 was pretty good at it, and I took my and 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.520 I took my first physics schools. I saw that he 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.240 was a way mathematics could be used trying to understand 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.520 the world around. So you majored in physics, You graduated 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.080 from Warehouse, and then you decided to get a PhD 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.480 in physics at Washing University in St. Louis. Why did 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.640 you pick Washington University? A very good school? But how 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.480 did you pick that school? My physics teacher at more Houses, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.480 his name was Hans Sabina's hop about Christians and it 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.640 was Danish white. Uh. Don a month with PhD from Harbord, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.160 and he became my mentor and grew into a friend. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.040 But as I said, I was the only and the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.400 advanced physics class at that more House. I was the 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.719 only one in the class, so it was like the 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:10.560 Oxford tutorial system, just Chris and myself. And Chris recommended 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.280 that I go to why she this is nineteen sixty now, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.000 and because I worked at more House one year and 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.000 it wasn't clear that that was every place was going 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:26.480 to be welcoming or nurturing and supportive of a young 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.800 black person wanted to be a physicist. And Chris thought, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.200 what you had that environment and it turned out that 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.840 it did when you got your PhD? Or what did 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.680 you decide to do? I came to ARGON here in 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:42.720 Chicago as a post doctor, and Argon was run by 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.080 the University of Chicago, so I was also associated with 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.440 the University of Chicago then, and my first job was 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.320 working with the group at ARGON National Laboratory. She worked 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.440 in Oregon. Adventure you got a teaching position at the 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.400 University of Illinois, and Urvanah did and then you did 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.040 that for while you're teaching physics. I went to Albanna 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.520 for two reasons. I loved Argon. I love my research, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.400 but that's what I was doing a little right here 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.160 in Hyde Park, about oh four blocks from here. Um 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.480 that celabrity. We could see it from where we it seated. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:21.080 Nineteen sixty eight, Mine Luther King Jr. Was assassinated, and 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.040 from where we are now you could see the city 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.200 of burning, and I could see it from my apartment. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.920 And it really became clear to me that I say, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.400 I had this feeling that I was just not contributing 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.040 to the civil rights movement to the degree that I 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.840 felt that I ought to. I was going to Argon 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.040 doing my research. Coming home, I to the kids in 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.080 the command of the community. But I wanted to be 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.200 more engaged, and I thought if I went to a 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.720 college campus where there were students, I would be more 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.679 engaged in activities. I went to Albanna for that reason, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.400 and Urbana turned out to be the very best place 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.680 in the world for the kind of physics I did. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.320 You did that for a while, and then you got 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.840 recruited to go to Brown University. I did, and you 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.520 became the dean of studentship Brown, then of the college. 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.000 In the college and um were there a lot of 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.440 African American professors and a Brown Actually Uh, at that 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:22.120 point there were quite a few. And interestingly asked that 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.760 because I was just reminiscent with some of my old 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:29.080 friends about what we call a golden age at Brown. Brown. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.440 And then when I went to the nineteen six to 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:37.959 nine and seven and we had Professor May in physics, engineering, chemistry, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.600 political science, history three in English, the general council was black. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.280 The associate had a him of it. So we had 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:52.679 a wonderful black community. It didn't grow at linearly, didn't 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.600 even last but a while. But yes, the period I 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.360 was there in the early seventh was front period Brown 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.320 for a number of years. And then you got recruited 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.960 to be the head of ARGON. I did. So what 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:10.160 does Argon actually do? Argon? Uh? It's called a general 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.080 science National Laboratory is one of the laboratories that the 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:19.400 Department of Energy owns, but they operated by contractors. University 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.520 operates our gone so forth. Much of this history it 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.600 was involved in nuclear reactors. Now it does basic science, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.760 a lot of materials science, UH, and low temperature science. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.880 That's why I was there in the sixties. It also 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:38.360 has a very large facility called the Advanced Photon Source, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.439 which is like a giant high energy X ray machine 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.080 that can you know, penetrate through materials and examine them. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.440 It's also has some of the world's fastest computers. It 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:57.040 has a big program and energy storage advanced research on batteries. 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.560 So it's a broad based um energy research. The laboratory 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.160 right now, So you're running argn um. Is that a 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.880 place where that was filled with a lot of black 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:13.920 physicists and mathematicians or it was fairly white? Fairly is not? 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:22.040 Fairly is an under statement? Mostly most overwhelming? But what all? Right? 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:23.520 So you're doing that for a number of years, and 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:24.960 then you get a chance to be the head of 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.800 the National Science Foundation. All of a sudden, you're handing 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.920 out money on behalf of the federal government, the National 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.520 Science Foundation. You find you are more popular than you believe. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.720 It's always best to be on the side of being 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.000 asked for about it to ask for If you're doing 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:43.839 that for a few years and then you get a 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.640 chance to be the provost of the University of California system, 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.920 is that right? So why did you take that position? 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.400 It's a great job, and you'd want to be a 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.439 head of a major university. I did by that time 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:03.480 do the transition from doing too administering science that are gone. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.280 And then as Uh, I began to see that I 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.800 really had a knack for um said, let's say running 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.160 the organizations, and that people people like working for me, 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.560 and I'd like working with people. And I saw that 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.360 I could get things done over areas that I cared 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:28.400 about science, education, science or underrepresented groups, these kinds of 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.240 things that I couldn't do as an individual scientist. All right, 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.440 so you took the position. You're the provost, the number 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.280 two position in all of the University of California system, 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.320 maybe the leading public education system in the United States 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.640 and higher education, and so you have a chance to 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.360 be the chance or the overall head of the University 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.400 California system if you'd stayed there for another year or 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.840 two and then all of a sudden, your alma mater 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.400 comes calling more House and they say, come back and 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.520 be the president of this small college in Atlanta, not 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.960 the head of the University California system. Why didn't you say, look, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.800 I'm going to be the head of the University California system. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:03.800 It's a better job than being they had a more House. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.040 Why did you not do that? I did say that. 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.839 I said that for several months from the albit to 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:14.080 my alumni friends and trustees. I said, no, you're crazy 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.080 that I've been hill. My whole career has been in 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.240 big science, big institutions. I mean, that's that's what I know. 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.679 But um, I thought about it. It really was a 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.840 family decision. One day, Surely surprised me by flying in 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.760 my two sons for data and I came home for working. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.720 There they were, and we talked a lot about it 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.920 and reached a decision that I could probably do more 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.440 in areas that I cared about, some of which I 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.480 just mentioned at more House. One. Secondly, that I really 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:56.440 owed priceefully everything that I had achieved to my beginnings 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.719 at more House, and that I ought to do this. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.959 Our youngest son, the one who lives in Amsterdam, Eric said, 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.720 you know, being head of the University of California be great, Dad, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.880 but you could get a lot more accomplished than he 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:13.760 had more House. How many years were you the president 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.880 of more Houses? That twelve years? Twelve years. Okay, so 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.240 while you're at more House, you got an opportunity to 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.480 go on the board of the Bank of America. No, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.000 I did that in California, because then they went on 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:26.880 the board of the old bank. The old wore we 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.800 emerged and we were located in San Francisco. And then 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.800 at one point they said, you should be the chairman 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.880 of the board of Bank of America. Is that right? 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.440 That's right? Wasn't that simple? But that's right? And did 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:38.880 you want to be chairman of the board of Bank 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.760 of America. I had no time to think about it. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.400 It came about so quickly. Came as a result of 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:50.280 the shareholders meeting in April two thousand nine. After the 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:55.760 shareholders had put on the proxy the agenda a proposition 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.520 to separate the chair from the CEO, as you know, 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:04.920 and most cooperation. That's a combined position. And the shareholder vote, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.440 uh got the most. It's got the majorge of the votes. Now, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.240 the board didn't have to accept that shareholder vote, so 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.559 recommendations and every good, but the board did. And just 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:21.440 after the board meeting, the then chairman Ken Lewis said, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.760 the board executive committed I was gonna recommended to the 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.080 board that I'd be the chairman. This is on the 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.440 way into the meeting and I said, how long did 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.360 I think about this? This is about a minute. All right, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.400 So Danny, if you get that position, a couple of 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.520 days later, the federal government calls you up and says, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.600 guess what, we gotta talk to you. You've got some problems. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.160 They told you that you had to do some serious 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.880 things to fix the Bank of Americas. At right, that's correct, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.960 I thought when I accepted the position, but I thought, wow, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.400 it's prestigious, it's on that and that, well I can 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.440 I can do it. I've been on I've been on 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.400 what the teen years, so I wasn't a novice in 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.200 the board room or with you know by then, of 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.400 financial institution. I've been on the board of McDonald's where 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.360 we had a non executive chair at one point, Motorola 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.760 had a non executive chair. So to BPCE so I 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.680 had seen what they did. It's about a two days 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:27.200 a week a job and pretty um. The preside over meetings, 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.920 you help with the agenda, You keep in touch the CEO. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.160 I said, well, I can I can do that? Until 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:38.960 the fan called and asked me, asked, summoned me to Richmond, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.120 which is the office of the Federal Reserve Branch that 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.800 oversees uh A. Bank of America was just located in 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.120 Charlotte and asked me to bring some other directors with 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.680 me because I didn't want to take this message back 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.440 to my colleague by myself. And the message they gave 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.920 me turn this into a full time job. So they 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.720 basically said that you had some financial problems at Bank 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.560 of America and you need to make some changes and 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.320 ultimately you have to spend a lot of time fixing 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.280 the Bank of America. Is that right? And so then 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.160 you led an effort to pick Brian moynahan, who's still 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.360 the CEO of Bank of America's a right, that's good. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.320 So that worked out? Okay, that's what out? Fantastic Brian. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.000 I think it's just done a wonderful It's not just 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.280 my opinion. He's been chosen CEO of the year. I 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.640 think a couple of time, not just in the financial industry, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.480 but throughout the corporate America, and the bank has done 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.320 very well. I suppose somebody says, I'm watching this and 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.800 I'm a young person. I'm in college now or high 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.720 school or graduate school, and I want to be water 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.200 Massy and I grow up, what would you say is 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.280 the best way to prepare to be someone like you. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.040 There's no substitute for hard work that it doesn't know, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.080 let's start with that. But also pursue things that you're 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.720 interested in, things that you like, And especially if you 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:01.480 in high school and college, don't commit totally so quickly 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.960 to been totally absorbed in one thing. And you may 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.640 have to because if you're gonna do things like computer science, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.600 maybe in physics, it really does take a lot of time. 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.040 But I urged young people just study other things. You know, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:21.159 take courses outside of your especialty. It's a broad based learning. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.800 From first, you're gonna enjoy it, and secondly, it might 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.639 open up other doors that you may not even realize. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.119 Would you say race relations in the United States are 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.360 much better than when you were growing up in Mississippi 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.720 or do you think we've made less progress than you 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.840 think we should have made both? I think I think 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.959 that's much better, uh than when I was going up, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.320 I would not be in the position you even have 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.240 this interview. And there are so many other people in 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:54.720 positions of importance, so many um people who occupied areas 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.359 and I never thought I would see them, and but 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.639 I would have hoped that be better. It's haven't done 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:07.960 a lot of progress, and somehow we are in an 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:13.240 area era now where in spite of the progress, race 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:18.399 relations in certain areas has become very scary. You know, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.920 some of the things that one reads about now remind 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.280 me growing up in Mississippi. Let me ask you right 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.679 now about something you're involved in right now, which is 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.920 the Giant Magellan telescope. You're leading the effort to get 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.119 people to fund the Giant Magellan telescope. Why do we 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.720 need the Giant Magellan telescope since we have the web 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.160 selescope it seems to be sending back pretty nice pictures. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.880 How much better is they trying? Magellan gonna be four 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.720 times better, four times better, four times better resolution, which 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.000 made the pictures will be sharp. But the science the 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.120 way it will work the web, as you're seeing those 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:59.120 pictures there sharp, but they are identifying parts of galaxies 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.400 and space almost back to the beginning of the universe 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:08.400 that people haven't seen. They can't, folks. It cannot focus, however, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.240 more sharply as we would like to be able to 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:15.679 identify objects. So the web will identify a portion of space. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.800 The GMT Giant Magellan telescope can affect zoom in on 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.520 that space, have final resolution, look at it more clearly. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.040 And in addition to that, we'll have a set of 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:33.359 instruments which in collect that light, analyze it and see, 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.879 for example, does it contain signs of oxygen of water? 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.560 So they'll be complimentary. How much does it cost before 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.640 we get the giant Magellan telescope? We're estimating now at 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.200 over two billion dollars two billion dollars. And where is 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.520 that money coming from? About highs coming from private sources. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.919 The University of Chicago being one of the eleven partners, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.479 will put up about half, and the federal government is 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.280 now will negotiate with negoti shading with the National Science 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.000 Foundation to come up with the other half. You know, 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.040 I've often thought the way you could raise money for 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.960 the giant magel and telescope used to take away the 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.479 name Magellan because he didn't put up any money for it, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.359 and let somebody very wealthy Elon Musk or Bill Gates 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.480 or somebody so will name it after them and put 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.359 up a billion dollars. You ever thought of that? We 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.359 think of that every day. I do. Yes, you have 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.600 a millionaire that you like, I think you need a 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.600 multi billionaire but there might be something out there. If 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.400 your name it after from it's a big, big naming 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.240 opportunity as Actually I'm not that we do. We have 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.920 naming opportunities all the way from a mirror, an instrument 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.760 that will look for ats so planets. Uh. For twenty million, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.840 ten million dollars, the mirror is gonna be named. We 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.000 actually have one mirror name Uh. Mitchell dinner was Donna 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.440 to the university was twenty million dollars. Uh. The telescope 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.160 dome itself a hundred million dollars, and you can name 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.760 the whole. We can negotiate device for hotels. What are 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.800 they gonna name after anything? The water mashi anything or 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.679 anything name me after you? I think they have some 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:11.639 ported photopotties. The life of people on Earth is going 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.080 to be better if that is funded, because of what 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.400 we're gonna discover that there's life somewhere else in the universe. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:19.240 And how is that going to make our life better? 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.760 I don't think it's gonna make your life better in 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:28.800 the sense of delivering material comfort, material advantages. I think 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.360 it's gonna make you want human life more interesting and 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:38.520 probably inspire people to think about their life differently. Uh. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.960 The artist Jeff Kohn's Friends of Mine UM says that 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.440 when he looks at those images from the James Webb Telescope, 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.320 the others that show you almost the beginning of the university, 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:56.200 see these galaxies, it just makes you realize how special 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.200 it is to be living in these times when you 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.480 can discover these things, and how special it is to 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:07.440 be a human being. I mean, how improbable it is 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.880 that there's something like us that has been generated over 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.320 all these years and now we still exist. Do you 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.720 believe there is life in the universe somewhere else? I do? Now, 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:24.000 why do I say that's just probability there was? And 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.320 we go firm it we used to be here. Actually, 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:32.000 what is purported to have said, where is everybody? Why 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.959 haven't we heard from them? Because just given the number 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:42.200 of stars with what now they're calling exoplanets planets, that, um, 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.840 it looked like they would be situated close enough in 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.359 a position with a start to have life. They've already 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.880 discovered five thousand, five thousands and our galaxy, and given 0:22:54.920 --> 0:23:00.080 a number of galesses billions in the universe, UM, it 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.720 just seems to be probably holly unlikely, you know, I 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:07.880 from a mathematical statistical point of view, that you wouldn't 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.160 have conditions like we have on it. But I don't 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.480 have any other reason. So as you look back on 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.760 your life incredible career, what would you say is the 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.160 legacy that you would like to have people think about you? What? 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.160 What would you're most proud of having done? Is at 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:25.600 the position at uh at moor House or your scientific leadership. 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.520 What would you say as your legacy to your children, 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:32.840 grandchildren and your fellow Americans. Well, it wouldn't be in 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:37.800 a particular accomplishment. I would hope it would be that 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:42.400 people would realize that you can accomplish a great deal 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.600