1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. As 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,079 Speaker 1: far as I had come with these five cases, it 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: still felt like a major piece of this fifty year 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: old puzzle was missing. Because it's always bothered me that 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: throughout all of this, the Connecticut State Police had never 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: done the obvious bring canines out to search the biggest 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: areas of interest, the Wendell property, the old LaRosa Land, 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: and that Flower Memorial area. They've been asked by many 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: of the victims families and the windows to do so, 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: but they've never made an effort. Time, money, a variety 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: of excuses have been to blame, but Kennan Patty Wendell, 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: they need to know if their bodies buried on their property, 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: and most importantly, the victims families deserve answers. This has 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: gone on for far too long. Previously on Paper Ghosts, 15 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: he said, well, you know they're not gonna find anything. 16 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: He said, I didn't do anything wrong to hurt your mother. 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: Do you think Bob Larros is a guy who was 18 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: capable of killing his wife? Oh yeah, It's easy to 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: point the finger and say he did it, or she 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: did it, or they did it. Yeah, But to go 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: down and prove me at something else and uh, like 22 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: I said, I didn't hurt nobody, I didn't kill anybody, 23 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: and I didn't kidnap anybody. My name is and William Phelps. 24 00:01:45,400 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: This is Paper Ghosts. I began this po podcasting journey 25 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen on Ken and Patty Wendell's forty 26 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: six acre property near Crystal Lake. An indirect tip from 27 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: the witness and a bag of seventies Eero clothing set 28 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: things in motion. After years and years of false leads 29 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: and dead ends, and now in I'm back at the Wendell's. 30 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: Only this time I have some help with me. Hello, 31 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: how you doing. It was a cold day in May, 32 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: at the height of the coronavirus pandemic, and I had 33 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: somehow convinced canine team to meet me at Patty and 34 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: Ken Wendell's house. Hi, Marian, how are you? Marian? Baland 35 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: and Don Minor are my field support from Connecticut Canine 36 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: Search and Rescue, one of the most renowned condaver search 37 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: teams in the country. I reached out to the organization 38 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: in late two thousand nineteen, and after several meetings in 39 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: further discussion, they agreed to help these families seek some 40 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: sort of resolution, at least within this latest thread of 41 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: the witness stirring things up after all these decades. How 42 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: the conditions you think? One issue that bothered me immediately 43 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: was the weather, cold, wet, windy. Would it play a 44 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: role in how effective the dogs are going to be? Well, 45 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: it's warming up, so it's not real moist in the 46 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: air right now, so so I'm hoping that that's going 47 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: to give some kind of lath right now. It's been 48 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: told we had a lot of rain over the past 49 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: couple of times. Left to see how the dogs do. 50 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: There are so many variables at play, Mary and explained, 51 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: and most are not what many would think. For example, 52 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: a lot of rain, she says, can be helpful bringing 53 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: up the water table disperses the scent of decomposition. She's 54 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: learned this by training her dogs on burial grounds. Jane's 55 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: pockets sister, Mary angle Brick, was also there. It felt 56 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: appropriate it she be included since she was there when 57 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: we toured the Wendell property one year earlier. Mary, how 58 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: are you feeling about today? I'm kind of nervous, like 59 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: feeling a lot of things. I think nervous. I'm scared, 60 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: I guess I'm I'm scared that they'll find something, and 61 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: then I'm scared that they won't find something, so you know, 62 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: I'm all over the place kind of. So we were 63 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: joined by their colleague Liz Burne, who was the handler 64 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: for the day, and it brought two English Springers Orva 65 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: and Heiress, the springer of favorite breed for Scotland. Yard 66 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: is traditionally a hunting dog used to flush out game 67 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: for the shooter. Their ears are long, floppy and furry. 68 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: They are full of boundless energy. That much was clear 69 00:04:50,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: as soon as I met them. That's Horri ready to work. 70 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: Or of a We all stood massed up socially distanced 71 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: about a hundred yards away from Liz as she brought 72 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: one dog at a time into the areas. The idea 73 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: behind this strategy is for Don and Marian to watch 74 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: the dog for signs of alerting on a scent. Canine 75 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: searched the air. Mostly they scurry around trying to pick 76 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: up on an airborne scent that spring foliage growing up 77 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: from the ground might project into the air, or they 78 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 1: can hit on water. They do all this while wearing 79 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: a GPS tracking device, so every step the raw data 80 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: is recorded. As they search. The dogs give tells which 81 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: Marian and Don are there to pick up on and 82 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: take note of Heiress. The first dog heading into the 83 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: window woods was hyper focused. She wore a bell around 84 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: her collar so the handler could find her easily if 85 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: she picked up on something, and kind of moved swiftly 86 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: through the woods. We headed towards the spot where Ken 87 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: Wendell found that bag of clothes. Procedure sent Liz and 88 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Arress well beyond the target area. The idea is not 89 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: to bring the dog into the direct location. Instead allow 90 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: that dog to seek out herself whatever it is of interest. 91 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: So that's the well where UM the clothing was found. 92 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: There's a carpet in there that I was curious about. 93 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: Blue carpet. Marion explained what an alert on an area 94 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: would look like, and she whispers, because we didn't want 95 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: to disturb the focus of Liz or Heiress. We're looking 96 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: for UM. Possibly the dogs pacing to slow down on 97 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: head hooks one way or the other. UM. Usually they slow, 98 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: they slow down and get more intense. The dogs are 99 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: trained on decomposing placentas and actual dirt samples from the 100 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: colonial period, civil war, and known slave grave sites. They 101 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: are often brought to archaeologist digs and support as well. 102 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: She's down inside that well now, hairis actually dove into 103 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: the well and swam around in the water. This is 104 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: the exact location where the clothes and that blue carpet 105 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: were found. The well being full of water was actually 106 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: helpful in bringing the potential scent of remains out of 107 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: whatever might have been down there as quickly as area 108 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: seemed interested in it. However, out she came, shaking off 109 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: excess water before moving on. Doesn't seem interested in anything 110 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: in there? Huh Yeah. There she went in twice and 111 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: she actually tasted the water, but she didn't. I mean, 112 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: this is her saying, there's no set. I'm just being 113 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: a goofy dog right now because there's nothing. The dog 114 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: worked this section of the woods for about twenty five minutes, 115 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: covering it in a grid like fashion, nose to ground 116 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: at times, nose in the air at others. The green 117 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: roof well is towards that way. It's far, but it 118 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: is that way, so maybe that area all nice, nicely 119 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: fool now. The witnesses tip included the words green roofed well. 120 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: There's only one of those anywhere on the property. So yeah, Liz, 121 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: there's the green roofed well right there. Yeah, and then 122 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: in about twenty ft in back of that is another well. 123 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: Right then you want both of them checked, yeah, I thought, 124 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: but that has the green roof which the witness described. 125 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: Liz took the dog a hundred yards and more up 126 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: past both wells and unleashed. As we looked on, my 127 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,359 Speaker 1: gut was telling me there was nothing there yet. Investigation 128 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: requires elimination. If I could eliminate the window property, the 129 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: windows and the victims families could move on from this 130 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: and go back to their lives. Oh, look at that. 131 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: We were in the vicinity the witness had specifically described, 132 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: and there was a noticeable change in Herriss's behavior as 133 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: soon as she started searching this area. You think she's 134 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: just interested in that the dog picked up on something. 135 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: She's back at that green roof well. The well is 136 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: square about ten by ten with an upside down V 137 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: shaped roof over it. Both ends are covered one side 138 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: with a hatch door to look inside. Ken Wendell, if 139 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: you recall, put an underwater camera down this well and 140 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: found nothing but water on one side of the well. 141 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: As a pool of water deep part of the well 142 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: runoff as it fills during a rainstorm. Harris dove into 143 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: that pool of water, tasted it, jumped out, sniffed around 144 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: the well, then made her way over to the hatch door. 145 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: Fiddled with it a bit, trying to get in, just curiosity, 146 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: not thing more. Harris actually found more interest in a 147 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: second well nearby. See um, where that other sort of 148 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: arcas in a well where there's the metal posts over 149 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 1: the top around there, really yeah, where there was the deep. 150 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: She's the deep sniffing and here she was scared. She 151 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: stuck her head and she actually stammed through that water. Um, 152 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: but I heard more of the breathing changes, like if 153 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm working up there. Eiris went from the green roof 154 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: well to an area about thirty yards behind it, up 155 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: a hill in front of a large section of bedrock 156 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: sticking out of the ground. Luz, can you work or 157 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: above that rock in the woods behind? She's interested in 158 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: that area. Huh, she's digging there. She's interested in that. 159 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: Talking back, I'm really three times three times later I 160 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: got three times in yeah, um yeah. She went over 161 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: there to back over there, laid down and started digging. 162 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: She went back on her own. Yeah, laying down is 163 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: Harris's trained indication that she has locked onto decomposition. Don 164 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: and Marian, when they saw it, became incredibly focused. I 165 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: had not seen them all day long look as serious 166 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: as they were. If they come back, do it on 167 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: your own. I mean she actually started pawn at it. 168 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: She was digging to do out of frustration or CONSI 169 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: something there and you're not moving fast enough. I was 170 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: trying to listen for her breathing, because if you're going 171 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: to get a fossil lert, so I'll just they might 172 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: go and give you their behaviors, but you don't hear 173 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 1: that deep stacking beforehand. Like I'm working. I'm working on 174 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: her breathing, drink breathing. Aara settled in on one spot 175 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 1: in front of a large piece of bedrock protruding from 176 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: the ground. She dug, vigorously, laid down over the spot 177 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: she had dug, and waited for Liz to come over. 178 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: After Liz took Ariss away and allowed her to go 179 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: where she wanted, the dog came back to the same location. 180 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: The team all agreed there could be something there. What 181 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: that something is would be to speculate a bone decomposition 182 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: in the soil run off from a nearby cemetery or 183 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: perhaps one of the missing girls. After Arius hit on 184 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: that particular location, the handlers brought out the second dog, Orva, 185 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: and she showed interests there as well. The team then 186 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: arraided the area probed as they call it, by spending 187 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: a half hour poking the ground with skinny metal rods, 188 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: then brought the dogs back. So how did the probeing 189 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: go good? A lot of holes? He made good. She 190 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: seemed that she saw the area. Yeah, it's above there, 191 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: in front of that piece of lege. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing 192 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: the two dogs show more interest in a well behind 193 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: the one the witness had been talking about came as 194 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: no surprise. It's been decades since the girls went missing. 195 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: Memories naturally fade over time, and sometimes they can even change. 196 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: It's like a game of telephone, where a detail you 197 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: once remembered make it slightly altered as the years go by. 198 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: Dates maybe off colors can be different. So if you 199 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: wanted to work the dogs more, we could go over here. 200 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: I pointed to the area near the flower memorial Tina 201 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: LaRosa and her family members put on the birch tree 202 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: in back of the old LaRosa property, and also where 203 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: the state police once dug and came up with those 204 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: five pairs of saddle shoes I mentioned in episode one, 205 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: Yes through here and the rope stuff some time to ye, 206 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's best if we walk 207 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: them down the street and come in from the street 208 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: on the side or it didn't show any indication whatsoever 209 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: near the LaRosa property or the flower memorial safe for 210 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: her pawing at a tree close by. Sometimes canines will 211 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: act as though they want to climb a tree, indicating 212 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: perhaps there is something under the tree or even in 213 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: the tree itself kind of sucked in or absorbed by 214 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: the roots system. That second go around after probing, turned 215 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: in the same results. It had been a long cold day. 216 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: The dogs were tired, same as we were in the 217 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: weeks after we all met up at the Wendells, the 218 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: Connecticut Canine Search and Rescue Team sent me its report 219 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: for the day regarding the location around the artesian water 220 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: well as well as the flower memorial near the LaRosa property. 221 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: Canines arison or of a quote showed no behavior changes 222 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: indicative of the odor of decomposed human remains being present. 223 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: As for the area surrounding the green roofed well. Both 224 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: dogs exhibited deep sniffing and digging with airis, returning to 225 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: the location three times before lying down her trained indication. 226 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: This certainly adds more credibility to the witnesses supposed tip 227 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: about bodies being buried somewhere in that area. Now knowing this, 228 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: it's hard not to imagine the frustration felt by the 229 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: victims families after the request for state police to bring 230 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: out search dogs has and ignored. More so when you 231 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: learned that during the summer the state police actually acted 232 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: on a psychics tip and brought canines out to a 233 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: home in Tolland to search for Janic's pocket. They turned 234 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: up with nothing. I just don't get it. A seemingly 235 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: credible tip from the witness leads to new breakthroughs at 236 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: Crystal Lake, and the state police are searching a home 237 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: six miles away based on a psychics tip. We had 238 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: also gone to the location where Susan Larrossa was found, 239 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: but the wind picked up and it was nearly impossible 240 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: to search. I will say this, however, when we got there, 241 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: the dogs were unleashed and ran straight toward the exact 242 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: location where Susan's body had been dumped. According to the report, 243 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: both dogs showed changes in body carriage indicative of attempts 244 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: to locate the odor of decomposed remains, deep sniffing and 245 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: pasting in circles. The report ends with the Connecticut Canine 246 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: Search and Rescue Team's recommendation to follow up with a 247 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: search further into the woods west of Wendell Road, northwest 248 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: of the Green Roof covered well area, and additional areas 249 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: near where Susan LaRosa was found. What I do with 250 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: this information becomes the question. The state police had made 251 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: it clear they were uninterested in sharing information, but I 252 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: had Connecticut Canine send them my Canine Search Info Report. 253 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: I've been providing the State Police in Tallan County States 254 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: Attorney's Office with information at tips I have received and 255 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: vetted for over ten years. I'm not about to stop now. 256 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: Armed with the info I had, I went over to 257 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: speak with Bill Meyer, the Vernon Police Department lieutenant, see 258 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: what he thought. We made some progress. You know, generations 259 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: of detectives have worked on this case, going back before 260 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: I was even born. But these are the types of 261 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: cases to stick with you, and we know that someone 262 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: knows something. Someone out there across the United States, across 263 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: the world, knows the answers that we're looking for. Which 264 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: out of the case is Debbie Spickler, Lisa White, I mean, 265 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, the Janis Pocket case, Susan LaRosa, Irene Larrosa. 266 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean, which which one you think is most solvable? 267 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: Certainly the ones where we've recovered the remains have more 268 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: solvability to them. And with with her husband, Bob Lerosa 269 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: being dead, what do you think the chances are solving 270 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: that case. It's a challenge with any of these cases, 271 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, the amount of time becomes a challenge because 272 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: memories fade, people die, people move away. But we don't 273 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: give up, you know, we're still hoping for that breakthrough. 274 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: It's going to give us the answers we've been looking 275 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: forward for many, many years. It's very important if you 276 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: have some information to bring it forward, even if you 277 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: think it's something we've already investigated. Part of the fallout 278 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: from taking a cold case investigation public is the urgency 279 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: for answers and expected resolution to have everything tied up 280 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: in a nice little bow with papers filed away. Trust me, 281 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: I'd love that too. But the best we can hope 282 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: for is that the needle has been moved a bit more. 283 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: What's important is the facts are out there that so 284 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: many more people are now aware of these cases. We 285 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: have a cold Cake hotline um that that people can 286 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: reach out to with that information that will get back 287 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: to investigators so that they can be followed up. By 288 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: early October, the podcast have been out for nearly a 289 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: month and people were talking. More importantly, the state police 290 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: were moving. Ken Wendell gave me a call. He told 291 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: me the police now want to come up to his 292 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: property and survey the areas where I had brought the 293 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: canine team, and they want to bring their own dogs 294 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: out right away. All small town politics aside. The good 295 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: news is that the state police is paying attention. I've 296 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: since learned that their dogs hit on two areas, one 297 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: not too far away from the spot Arras had laid down, 298 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: and another where that flower memorial is located. Next steps 299 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: include ground penetrating radar in those areas of interest, and 300 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: also possibly more digging. That's on the Connecticut State Police. 301 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: All we can do now is wait and hope they 302 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: follow up. I promised the families of the missing girls 303 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: that I would tell them about my latest findings with 304 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: the Canine team, their strength and candor, and sharing with 305 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: me one of the most traumatic moments of their lives, 306 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: something for which I am forever grateful. Mary angele Breck, 307 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: the sister of Jane's Pocket, April White Filetti, the sister 308 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: of Lisa White. Terry Shanks, the sister of Susan Rosa. 309 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: These three women share a bond that very few people 310 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: can understand. We all met up at a campsite one night, 311 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: sat around a fire and just talked. You know, we 312 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: all grew up with our experience, isn't I And I'm 313 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: thinking each of us, did you ever think that you 314 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: would find someone else that actually understands what you went 315 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: through and how you grew up, in how losing a 316 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: sister and the way we did. No one understands. No 317 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: one understands. And it's it's so funny because when I 318 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: talked about Lisa and it sets me. Um. It's it's 319 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: hard to do because it just takes you to such 320 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: a dark place, but um, I always know that I 321 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: have you guys it, and it makes it so much easier. 322 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: And even April makes a good point that dark place 323 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: all of this brings up. It's a daily reality for 324 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 1: these families. We suffer the same, the three of us, 325 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: like we are sisters. Forever we are, the three of us, 326 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: we will always be connected. I feel so blessed and 327 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: lucky that we found my sister, but my bond still 328 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: remains with the women who have not, because even though 329 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: I we found my sister's body, we still don't know 330 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: the particulars of what happened. And there's no justice, no justice, 331 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,479 Speaker 1: bottom line. Really, in the end, five females for missing, 332 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: one confirmed murder, and those responsible walk free. Mary goes 333 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: on to say what many of us might forget about 334 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: the day her sister disappeared, and that echo chamber of 335 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: pain and what a tragedy like this does family and friends. 336 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: It's crazy, And I think, you know, I think April 337 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: and Terry can identify with this. But I think in 338 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, you know, here we are all 339 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: women are fifties now, but I still feel like a 340 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: part of me is still six years old, a part 341 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: of April is still ten years old, and a part 342 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: of Terry is twelve years old, because that's when our 343 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: life ended, our life as we knew it. Paper Ghosts 344 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: has written an executive produced by me and William Phelps. 345 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: I want to extend my gratitude to I Heart Radio 346 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: and will Pearson for allowing me to do what I do. Likewise, 347 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: I could not have done this podcast without the great 348 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: work of Christina Everett, who really shaped these episodes and 349 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: stepped in co wrote an executive produced with me, and 350 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: a big thank you to Pete Cardi from back Room 351 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: Audio for sound editing and a booze afar from My 352 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: Heart for sound editing and mixing. The series theme number 353 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: four four two is written and performed by Tom Mooney 354 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: and Thomas Phelps. That cold case hotline number the Vernon 355 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: Police Department set up is eight six oh three two 356 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: to eight. It will be posted in the show notes 357 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: of this episode along with my contact in phone. If 358 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: tiplines and cops aren't your thing, you can send me 359 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: a direct message on Facebook or email me personally. Any 360 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: tip or a bit of information can be helpful, and 361 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: all of it is kept completely confidential. To stay updated 362 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: on any new development on the cases, check out the 363 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: Paper ghost podcast page on Facebook and be sure to 364 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: stay subscribed to Paper Ghosts. But lots more to come 365 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: for more podcasts from My Heart Radio visit the I 366 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 367 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.