WEBVTT - How Fair Trade Works 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.480 Welcome to Stuff you should know from house stuff Works 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:13.039 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.360 Clark and there's Child's Wi Chuck Bryant. This is the 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.640 five hundred and something time that I said that, Oh yeah, 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:21.560 we're not to the sixes yet, are we? No? No, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.520 it's gonna be a little while. What are we mid five? Yeah? 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.720 I don't know. Like we hit five D word around 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.560 January D of January. It's a lot of knowledge we're 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:35.839 doling out for free, folks. We're like, we're in like 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.640 like five twenty maybe, Yeah, I thought there might be 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.200 more than that. Um, you're doing okay, I'm great, good? 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.360 How are you okay? Like my back hurts a little bit, 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.120 and Yumi is convinced that it's a kidney infection onset, 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:51.320 so she's like, you need to drink a lot of 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.080 apple cider, vinegar and baking soda diluted in water and 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.680 cranbery juice. That's what I'm doing. And water. Yeah, that 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.360 went too, But I've got stuff diluted in water, so 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:05.120 that counts. But it's um kind of rough. You know, 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.679 I don't know that your coffee counts? Is water? No, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.120 it does actually, you know that the whole you should 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.560 drink eight eight ounce glasses of water a day. You 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.520 can factor in coffee. Yeah, and it's totally made up, 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.319 Like there's no one's ever said that you really should 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.160 do that. It just kind of came on as like 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.480 an early meme, I guess. And there's never There's not 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.800 any evidence that an adult human living in a temperate 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.759 climate of average health couldn't survive without any additional water 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.280 on a daily basis, because we get it from things 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.320 like food and other stuff. I think the idea is 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.880 that you benefit from drinking water. Again, there's not necessarily 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:48.160 any scientific evidence. That pretty much made up. I'm not 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.480 so sure. I'm telling you look it up back to you, Okay, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.400 all right, we'll have a look up off. Okay. Um, 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.560 But that's not what this is about, Chuck, Nor is 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.400 it about my possibly um impending kidney infects in hospitalization. 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.480 It is about the idea that everyone around the world 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:14.839 deserves to make a decent, sustainable living wage, agreed, or 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.440 should at the very least get a should see the 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.240 fruits of their labor in a fair way. Yeah, this 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.400 kind of flies in the face of something called um capitalism. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.400 The free market system a little bit, because in the 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.640 free market system, one of the big things you have 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.360 is pretty much every man for himself. Now, everyone in 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:40.200 a free market system, a completely theoretical, unfettered free market system, 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.840 has the opportunity to enjoy the fruit of his or 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.120 her labors, has the opportunity to make a decent, livable wage. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.519 But one could also argue that the bounce of power 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:56.600 has tipped so far in favor of a consolidated, internationally 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:02.680 connected few that at that's just not a real possibilitynymore, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.520 that theory that theoretical version is now an impossibility, right, 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:08.679 I think, hey, Mountain, that might be a good time 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.760 to recommend to people to go listen to our previous podcast, 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.360 Is the free market really free? Oh? Yeah, that's a 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.079 good one. Wasn't that the name of that one? That 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.919 was a good one. That was a good one. Um. So, 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.200 because this balance of power has tipped so far post 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.520 pretty much post World War two is when it happened. 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.200 There are there are some people out there who have 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.079 come up with the idea that maybe we should go 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.520 an extra mile and make sure that the people who 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.560 are actually making all the things we enjoy, For example, coffee, wine, 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.320 soccer balls. People who bananas, bananas, it's a big one. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.880 People who actually make these things get a an income 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.600 that is like something that anyone who is on the 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.320 receiving end of these bananas and coffee would recognize as 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.880 a livable amount of money in return for what they're 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.840 doing us. That's right. This is not a call for communism. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.680 This is a call for fair pay via something called 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:14.440 fair trade. And um, the idea is that uh, you 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.880 and I and whoever else wants to support this kind 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.760 of cause might not mind going into their local and 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.320 we're gonna use coffee a lot, because that's one of 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.120 the big daddies. Yeah, that's might not mind going into 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.600 their their coffee shop or their grocery store wherever you 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.880 hunt down your coffee and paying a little bit more 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.800 for your coffee. It's got that fair trade stamp on 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.080 their knowing that ultimately the worker who picked those beans 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.080 is going to be cared for in a you know, 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.960 humane fair way. It's gonna get a decent amount of 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.800 money for their for their product. Um, and you you 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.000 kind of hit something on the head when you said, 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.359 seeing that fair trade label, there's a really big distinction 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:58.599 between a product that carries a certified fair trade label, yeah, 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:03.120 and something that's marketed as fairly treated that means nothing. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.000 It means absolutely nothing like that that they might as 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.000 well say, like the contents inside are orange and green maybe. Yeah, 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:17.000 it's the whole mislabeling, misleading, misleading labeling of things, which 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.040 is just like the organic deal certified organic versus these 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.160 you know, this crap food that will say like contains 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:29.280 naturally uh natural ingredients or things like that. Emily has 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.080 to fight spedal all the time with her company because 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.920 she's one of the people that tries to only use 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.159 you know, fair trade ingredients and certified organic. And she 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.320 gets angry every day when she sees products body products 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.200 that slap something on their label like naturally good and 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.159 people think that means it's all natural or all natural. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:54.240 That doesn't mean that it's organic or all natural. It's 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:56.880 it needs to be regulated more in it. And it's 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.719 so that's such a cynical thing to exploit, Yeah, like 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.640 thing that really meant something at one point in time 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.080 for dollars, you know, to to market something that doesn't 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.919 mean anything, it's actually not good for you, and marketing 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.000 it as good for you while using and already established 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:20.200 UM consumer trusted label or phrasing. It's just that's said. 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.159 It's one of it's one of the wrong things in 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.320 the world. But let's just say that that's why a 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.760 fair trade people, fair trade groups have UM. They jealously 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.760 guard their h there UM labels. Yeah, so that when 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.960 you do see them, you can't trust what's going on. 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.960 And they'll you know, companies at mislabeled or mislead with 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.159 their labels also make their labels look like the other 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.440 labels even and the font and the color is just 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.720 like it's so underhanded, it's really awful. So let's talk 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:51.840 about the background of this alright. It started in the 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.360 nineteen fifties with something called Alternative Trade Organizations a t 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.720 o S, not the Fraternity a t S. They were 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.880 doing beer bonds and you know other things. Uh, I 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.719 couldn't say what I was gonna say. I think everybody knows. Uh. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.200 They were humanitarian groups that started this, and basically they 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:15.640 wanted to alleviate poverty in developing nations by cutting out 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.800 middlemen between small producers in the north Northern hemisphere and 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.720 small businesses in the southern hemisphere. More profits directly going 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.240 to workers who picked the bean again with coffee, and 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.880 then I guess over time they found that this this 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:35.000 process could work. But you really do need middlemen, right 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.760 So yeah, not always, but depending on where you are 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.200 in the process or right, but if you're using the 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.080 existing I guess trade routes and system of trade that's 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.120 been established globally in the world, um, you there are middlemen. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.720 Like you. You have a coffee grower in Ethiopia, he 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.720 can't get that to you. You know in New England, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.360 you do need a middlement. What they figured out with 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.680 fair trade is that you can certify the people in 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.760 between to make sure that the money is getting to 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.520 the producer. And rather than cutting out the middleman to 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.560 increase the income of the of the original producer in 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.760 the developing country, you go to the consumer on the 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.120 consuming and and say, hey, you mind paying a little 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.480 more for this and in return, we will guarantee you 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.560 that this the person you who made this coffee that 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.280 you're enjoying, gets that money. That extra money, like you 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.400 are basically essentially sending it to this guy, and we're 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:35.839 the ones who are going to make sure that happens 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.880 and We're gonna do so through this labeling. That's right. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.439 Uh In is actually when the labeling itself was born 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:49.520 with a Dutch ato called uh soladara dad. Is that 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.160 not right? Solidad as you see, we got yet another 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.959 like email about our pronunciation. We try people, that's part 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.440 of the charm of the show. Some people don't like it. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:05.400 I unders in um so solidaridad from uh from the 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.640 Dutch region of the world, from Amsterdam, from the Netherlands, 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.800 from Holland, from all those places. They said, you know what, 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.520 we should label these things, help people out when they're shopping, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.840 get them in the main street markets without compromising. You know, 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.640 the trust that consumer has in these products. And that 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:28.640 is basically where fair trade was born. And we do 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.000 have one stat here in two thousand one, not super recent, 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.160 but just to show you and how people pay for coffee. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.359 Coffee fluctuates in price. It's like you know, any commodity. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.360 So uh in two thousand one the price stepped really 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.760 low and the coffee growers were receiving only about forty 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.920 five cents per pound for coffee, but fair trade coffee 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.280 buyers paid a dollar twenty one per pound that year 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:57.160 to ensure that these people, despite the fluctuations, were able 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.360 to keep the lights on for their business. Essentially, because 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.400 every fair trade organization sets a minimum price, a minimum 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:09.079 fair price that their their producers are gonna get no 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.280 matter what, no matter what the market does, no matter what. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.160 And I believe if the market goes up, they get 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.199 they get the higher of the two, but at the 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.280 very least they're getting that minimum price for their product. 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.240 So what is an f l O. This is sort 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.480 of how it starts or how the process itself starts, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.520 or you want to talk about that. Yeah, alright, the 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.880 fair Trade Labeling Organization. So that's that's one of them. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.959 There's there's a number of labeling organizations, like there's Transfer USA, 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.520 there's a European European Fair Trade Association, right, And apparently 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.000 I guess the f l O is like the the 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.120 agency that oversees the agencies. That's the impression that I have. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.200 But basically say that you want to um, say that 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.600 you you are a coffee roaster, and again we're going 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.320 with coffee because that's the big one, and you say, hey, 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.920 I really want to get in on this fair trade 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.640 action for whatever reason. It doesn't matter if you want 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.040 to increase your own sales or whatever. It doesn't matter. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:13.600 You can't exploit this process, right, No, but that's the thing, like, 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.079 like the coffee roaster can be like, you know, everybody's 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:17.719 into this fair trade thing, and I think I can 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.800 sell a lot more if I go through this process, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.520 So let me do it. And they contact the FLO 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.280 or a labeling organization. They say, great, we will sell 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.560 you a license for ten thou pounds of fair trade 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.199 coffee beans. So it's a contract for a set amount. Now, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.520 what they could do is set the coffee roaster up 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:43.400 with an already certified fair trade UM producer and supply chain. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.120 Or they can go in and say we can go 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.760 ahead and certify your existing supply chain and producer. And 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.400 that's what they do. The the coffee roaster pays for 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.080 that license, sends the f l O out, They go 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.720 through the supply chain make sure that all this money 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.560 is going back to the producer who is expected to 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.760 get it right. Yeah, And they actually send people, human 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.800 people visit farms to ensure that all their business practices 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.640 and their farmers are adhering to these procedures. And not 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.120 only that, they also add a dash of like sustainability, 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.080 like they're that they're not using like horrible environmental techniques 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.880 for stuff. And but yes, basically to make sure that 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:27.120 this producer isn't just like a you know, dull disguised 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.440 as like some some dude, you know, like they're going 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.640 to do some detective work and once they figure out 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.360 that everything's legit and it falls into the fair trade standards, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.160 which we'll talk about later, then that's certified, the license 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.320 is exercised, and that ten thousand pounds is delivered and 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.160 that guy can put that on the ten thousand pounds. Yeah, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.960 and it's not always just a one time visit. They 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.920 can also follow up with periodic inspections to ensure that, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.040 you know, that you keep up with that kind of 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.319 governance and you didn't just like pull a fast one 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.080 on them and you know, get out your house in 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.079 order for one day, you know. While and there there's 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.840 the licenses. Usually there's like there's a contract involved, like 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.400 so the middlemen who are involved have to participate in 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.880 these standards. And one of the standards is you have 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.840 to sign like at least a six month contract usually, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.280 which is actually kind of a lot for these producers 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.319 because a middleman can be like, oh, this guy's selling 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.120 it for way cheaper. I'm going over to him. You know, 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.960 this producer is guaranteed six months of going to this 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.120 middleman and um and getting the money from them. Well yeah, 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.040 and like you said, six months doesn't sound like much, 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.000 but I get the feeling that it was just like 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.680 it's the wild West out there. Yeah, you know, like 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.040 you can drop someone from day to day. Yeah. Well 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.680 they can be like, well, this guy's selling for a 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.120 penny lesson you force this guy down, and now this 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:45.560 guy is down to two cents, So you go to 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.560 another guy and be like, this guy's down to two cents. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.600 You can just play as many small farmers as you 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.040 want against off against one another and and drive prices 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.600 down as low as you want. That. Fair trade prevents 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:00.240 that from happening by forcing middleman to to sign a contract. Yeah, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.520 so that's one of the tenants. Um. Another is direct 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.400 trade between the producers and buyers. So they try to 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.360 eliminate the middleman when they can. In Central America they 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.079 call the middleman coyote. Yeah, I mean, I thought that 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.200 was interesting. Um. So in order to do this, they 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.200 encourage these farmers to get together and form co ops 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.360 export co ops band together. You know you've got a 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.640 little more power. Um. So something that that he points 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.040 out here too is that the exporter, if it's a plantation, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.280 the fair trade standard requires that national laws governing the 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:35.800 minimum wage UH and regulations covering the conditions be upheld 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.360 and the workers rights are all upheld as well. So 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.920 that's when you're not I guess forming a co op 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:45.800 no um, but fair trade tends to encourage co ops 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:52.480 democratically run co ops. Um. But yeah, they're they're they're 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:57.560 they're not necessarily completely opposed to the idea of certifying 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.440 something that's run as a plant takes rather than a 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.400 co op, as long as the workers are treated well. 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.040 And one of the other things they do, like if 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.720 there is a if they do run into a plantation 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:11.520 system and the workers are fine, everything's good, they attach 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.120 what's called the social premium. So if you are, say, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.960 there's a chocolate importer called Double Chocolate, the U B 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.040 B l E. I think it's in the UK, and 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.760 they they sell fair trade and chocolate, and they on 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.640 their site they were saying that they pay an extra 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.120 um I think two hundred dollars a ton of cocoa 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.040 per ton of cocoa. And that's just a social premium 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.520 that's on top of whatever the market prices or whatever 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.120 the minimum fair trade prices, whatever is higher. In addition 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.160 that they pay an extra two hundred bucks right off 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.000 the top for a ton of cocoa. And that is 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.200 that doesn't necessarily go right back to the um the producer. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.880 It goes back to the producer's community, and it is 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.880 used for things like scholarships, water projects, and notation projects 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.120 like schools whatever. Um. But it's that social premium is 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.640 an addition to raising the individual's income, it raises the 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.360 well being of the entire community. Yeah. Well with the 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.440 idea too that that's just gonna be good for everyone's 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.320 business ultimately. Well, yeah, that's the thing. That's that's where 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.240 it's kind of it turns capitalism in on it on itself. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.280 Like the idea that you can democratize through capitalism is 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.360 a huge like neo con idea. Yeah, and I mean 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.120 it's true, like it does work. Um, but they're saying, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.400 but we need to do that through a certain measure 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:33.160 of Marxism, right. It's kind of kind of funny. Yeah. Uh. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.280 And the final tenant, which you already sort of mentioned, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.000 was the minimum prices for farmers. The idea what they 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.000 want here is obviously to make sure that the price 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.120 that the farmer gets is more than the cost of production, 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.720 because you know, everyone's out to make a dollar here 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.360 and there. Um. And so they actually take a survey 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.680 um to make sure that the you know, the price 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.160 is right on the money, and it covers things like 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.760 the cost of living, um, cost of production, and even 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.400 the cost of complying with the fair trade standards. So 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.000 they roll that in there as part of their accounting 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.280 as well. Yeah, and we should say also, um, it 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:12.480 is the to purchase a license for fair trade and stuff. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:18.520 It's on the ultimate I guess distributor, the coffee roaster 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.440 in the case of coffee, UM, or the chocolate producer 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.959 in the case of cocoa, purchases whatever. Um. And before 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:26.840 I think until two thousand and four, like it was 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.920 free if you were the actual person producing like the 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.840 raw material the good like the coffee or the cocoa. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.840 But then the flo said, you know what, we need 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.000 to charge you guys a little bit too. So I 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:43.159 think that further encourages co ops because a small farmer 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.080 in in. You know, Ethiopia can't necessarily afford whatever it 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.320 costs to be in the system. Okay, that makes sense. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:54.159 And let's let's take a second here, chuck um to 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.359 remind people exactly what the disparity is between the people 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.520 who eat the chocolate and the people who produced the cocoa. So, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.120 say you were living in Teamore or Lesti in Southeast 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.960 Africa in two thousand five, guess how much you're annual 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.119 income would be expected to be. Well, what am I 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.280 doing in my growing You're just a president of it. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.360 You're doing whatever you want, but you're you're an average. 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.399 I have a petticab. Okay, you have a petticab since 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.840 you live in Teamre or Lestie. I think I'm saying 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.520 that right, lest one of the two man, I hope 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.959 I'm saying that right. You made four d in two 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.920 thousand five for the whole year and two in Malawi. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.679 You made five six dollars in Somalia's six hundred dollars 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.680 in Congo six seventy five for a year. A year, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.480 three hundred and sixty five days of labor, or a 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.800 large portion of three sixty five days. Take Christmas off 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.399 in the petticab by the all right, three hundred and 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.840 sixty four days of labor got you four hundred bucks, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.240 and teamore or lesti um on the high end in Naritria, 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.679 you made up whopping nine in seventeen dollars. In the 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.080 United States and two thousand five average US citizen spends 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.560 a hundred and fourteen dollars a day spends. Yeah, so 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.360 that's that's the concept of fair trade is like, you 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:20.400 have this extra couple of dollars, pay it for this, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.000 and we will make sure that that guy in Eritrea 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.760 gets it, and he's going to benefit, and in fact, 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.480 the whole world will benefit because there's that whole democratic 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:34.680 peace theory where like supposedly there's a correlation between democratization 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.600 and a decrease in war and belligerence between nations. So 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.480 who knows, it could just be beneficial for everybody. Yeah, 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.239 and this isn't welfare. This isn't uh give taking from 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.080 the rich and giving texting the rich and giving it 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.359 to the poor who you know can't get off their 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.960 butts and go work. These are people working very hard 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.600 at their job that you are ultimately benefiting from. When 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.560 you take that step of coffee that you're enjoying, and 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.480 it's it's like we did it in our own country 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.399 when we started enacting, like saying hey, kids shouldn't work 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.920 in factories and they should make eight cents a week. 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.240 We did it here in the fair trade label ensures 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.439 that wherever your product is coming from around the world, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.960 that the same thing is going to be you know, happening. Yeah, 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.880 it's it's intervention exploitation. But they're still critics. Yeah, there 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:28.200 are definitely critics and criticisms um in with fair trade, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.000 and I mean they're legitimate too. Yeah, I mean not 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.520 a lot of criticisms about people saying, hey, you shouldn't 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.200 do this and take care of workers. Probably there's probably 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:39.920 a handful of people out there that think that it's 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.159 more the um but generally, yeah, it's a criticism of 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.119 fair trade in the fair trade organizations, not of the 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.160 people who are actually, you know, producing this stuff. Yeah, 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:54.080 basically saying you're ignoring the basic tenets of supply and 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.760 demand in a way because you're you're attaching an inflated 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:04.000 price above the market value without doing anything else right, 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.000 and because it's difficult to kind of get these things 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.760 to market more difficult than than a regular thing. There's 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.080 been a real focus on things like coffee or bananas, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.159 so in these areas where you can grow coffee and 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.359 can grow bananas, since fair Trade is saying, hey, if 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.320 you grow this stuff and you do it the way 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.320 we want you to, you'll get four times what you 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.280 know you're getting paid. Without us, more people are gonna 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.600 flock from cotton to coffee, and there's gonna be an 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.480 oversupply and that's ultimately going to drive prices down for everybody. Right. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.800 Another criticism is that fair trade generally UM addresses these 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.119 co ops that we were talking about, and maybe if 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:44.880 you were just a single farmer, that's like, I don't 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.400 want to be in a co op, but I still 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.440 want to be fair trade. It's a little more difficult, 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.200 and UM these co ops just like anything else, when 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.800 you get more than two people together in a room, 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.840 there is a possibility for greeting corruption. So some of 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.919 these co ops have been attacked for mismanaging fair trade proceeds, 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.600 and UH supporters say, you know what, we can only 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.600 do what we can. We're trying our best. We're not 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.760 saying we're going to solve the world's poverty problems. But 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.760 what we are saying is that we can ensure that 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.399 these farmers and these co ops and these workers are 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.880 getting paid at fair wage enough to live on. Uh 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.919 when you eat your delicious or drink your delicious roasted 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.960 coffeesh And I guess I the one that makes the 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:32.199 most sense to me is the encouraging oversupply on the 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.800 market and driving down prices for other people and everybody 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.760 in general. Yeah, but um, yeah, and it really that 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.760 that could be very easily solved by just focusing on 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.720 other products as well. Yeah. Right now, they say about 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.520 eight hundred thousand farmers are benefiting from fair trade right 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:51.760 now worldwide. That was a Yeah, that's an o eight 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.560