Speaker 1: The volume. All right, Rory.
Speaker 2: Today we are joined by a very very special guest,
Speaker 2: New York City legend, the legend in the fashion game,
Speaker 2: legend in the shoe game.
Speaker 3: Uh, we are.
Speaker 1: We are honored and privileged to have here today.
Speaker 3: His new line is.
Speaker 2: Dropping, he has a new book out, and we get
Speaker 2: to talk to him.
Speaker 3: I get to ask some of my sneak ahead.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is a sneaker this this episode is for
Speaker 2: all the sneaker the sneaker heads around the world, very
Speaker 2: special guests doing some amazing things.
Speaker 1: We are joined by Sleat he been bread. What's up fan?
Speaker 1: How you doing? I'm doing good. Listen, It's a pleasure
Speaker 1: to meet.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, First of all, you're busy, you running around. Congrats
Speaker 2: on a new drop on a new Sponge, the Sponge collection.
Speaker 2: I don't know even know where to start with. I mean,
Speaker 2: we wear his sneakers so fucking much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much all the way at this point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, today I even had like it was maybe a
Speaker 4: self conscious thoughts, and then I felt even weirder after
Speaker 4: because I was like, I don't want to wear his sneakers.
Speaker 1: When he's like, is that weird?
Speaker 4: But then it's I was like, but I support this
Speaker 4: guy so much. Why why would.
Speaker 1: I'm not wear not because he's coming today.
Speaker 2: I'm not wearing my throtom ships in the back of
Speaker 2: the closet. I was like, I'm not wearing my slaves today.
Speaker 2: But how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: Man? I feel great. I am in a very significant
Speaker 1: part of my career and a chapter turning moment. I'm
Speaker 1: releasing a book, I'm releasing a I've released a footwear company,
Speaker 1: which is different from I guess what my audience has
Speaker 1: been familiar with, which has mostly been collaborations. And we
Speaker 1: saw this, We saw this happening though even I mean listen, like,
Speaker 1: I didn't even see the collaboration thing in the in
Speaker 1: the stars. For me, you know, my dream was to
Speaker 1: ultimately work for a brand, and I never really saw
Speaker 1: myself as someone that was going to put his name
Speaker 1: on people, across people's chests or on their shoes. So
Speaker 1: these opportunities have kind of been brought to me, and
Speaker 1: me being a New Yorker, you know, I'm still going
Speaker 1: to capitalize on them. And this is where I find myself.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, when when did you have that moment that
Speaker 4: it switched where hey, I don't want to just design
Speaker 4: or be a head designer for somebody else.
Speaker 1: I think I just got to look at the amount
Speaker 1: of success that I brought other brands and across a landscape,
Speaker 1: you know, like, you know, not only just simply like
Speaker 1: one kind of sneaker. I've been able to tell tell
Speaker 1: many different stories, and within telling those different stories, speak
Speaker 1: to different audiences, and through that have a lot of
Speaker 1: success with sales of shoes. And then that made me
Speaker 1: realize that I, myself am a business. I'm not necessarily
Speaker 1: like just this artist that gets brought in to like
Speaker 1: throw some colors on, you know, the black and white whatever.
Speaker 1: I am actually like a business myself. And and and
Speaker 1: then I also became you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: make this about money, but I you know, was very
Speaker 1: aware of the amount of money that I was making
Speaker 1: these brands.
Speaker 3: And I was do have you ever seen the real numbers?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, that's a part of it. But and
Speaker 1: then the percentage of what I was able to get
Speaker 1: from that very grateful. But it'd be nice to have
Speaker 1: the entire pie, you know, it'd be nice to Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little different, yeah, the whole thing. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then and then this entire time I've been learning, so
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is something I would have
Speaker 1: been ready for for like five years ago. But now
Speaker 1: I think that's why I said what I said about it.
Speaker 3: I think it was inevitable.
Speaker 2: I think people that have been following you and supporting
Speaker 2: your brand over the years, we kind of saw this happening.
Speaker 2: But when you say you were working at brands you
Speaker 2: were learning, I mean, you've done some iconic shit with
Speaker 2: Vasace cohon even with the Yeasy brand. Along your journey,
Speaker 2: it made CrOx cool, made CrOx cool. But but again,
Speaker 2: you've always had a certain aesthetic. We know a Salah
Speaker 2: aesthetic when we see it, like even your whole aesthetic
Speaker 2: appearance is a brand, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: you walking around and people know exactly who you are
Speaker 2: now growing up in New York, do you feel like
Speaker 2: that kind of molded you? Because this is a fashion
Speaker 2: capital and everything that you wear, but it's now it's
Speaker 2: it's more easy to follow than it is to set
Speaker 2: trends these days. Yeah, how important was it for you
Speaker 2: to remain who you are and always in anything you do?
Speaker 2: It's a sleazy thing.
Speaker 1: I think that growing up and maybe you can relate
Speaker 1: to this, you guys can relate to this as individualism
Speaker 1: was a high priority. So the people that were in
Speaker 1: your friend group or just in the room were respected
Speaker 1: and appreciated because of the individualism that they brought to
Speaker 1: the table. And so if someone was wearing cheetah or
Speaker 1: black and red or whatever it was, that's who they were.
Speaker 1: And these days that doesn't really exist as much. And
Speaker 1: so because that's an error that I come from, I
Speaker 1: really lean into being myself. I don't think anyone can
Speaker 1: be myself better than me, right, And that has high
Speaker 1: authenticity in it, and I think that's something that when
Speaker 1: people identify, they're really attracted to because that also is
Speaker 1: rare in this time that we find ourselves in, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think there's there's a balance that needs
Speaker 1: to be maintained of like injecting a certain amount of
Speaker 1: self into a project, but then also just considering the
Speaker 1: consumer and what they would like and being commercial because
Speaker 1: sometimes people push things a little too far and then
Speaker 1: it's not digestible. So it's kind of about maintaining that
Speaker 1: balance of like commercial and then I guess my taste. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, I think it's interesting with designers that are born
Speaker 4: and raised in New York. Typically the nature route isn't
Speaker 4: represented in their designs outside of just the colors that
Speaker 4: you use, Like what the shoe's purpose is for a
Speaker 4: nature hike, for example, it's a functional shoe, yeah, which
Speaker 4: typically isn't the New York City designer stereotype. What started
Speaker 4: more of the nature side of things growing up in
Speaker 4: the city, So I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, born and raised in New York, spent twenty nine
Speaker 1: years here, moved to LA about ten years ago, and
Speaker 1: through that developed a relationship with nature just through proximity.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you guys wanted to go for a
Speaker 1: hike here, that'd be your full Saturday. That'd be like
Speaker 1: going to what was it called Woodbury Commons. You know,
Speaker 1: that's a full day. That's a full day. And so
Speaker 1: in LA, you know, like hikes are fifteen minutes away
Speaker 1: and they're really beautiful experiences and it's physical fitness and
Speaker 1: it's meditative and it's just a nice way to start
Speaker 1: the day. And then through that I started getting inspired
Speaker 1: and started and not even like intentionally where I was
Speaker 1: like looking at trees like give me an idea, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was more just like, damn, these colors are
Speaker 1: beautiful and started noticing the function of the shoes I
Speaker 1: was wearing and how they were hurting or helping my
Speaker 1: hiking experience. I made a shoe with a whistle on
Speaker 1: it because I was like, wow, like, I'm out in
Speaker 1: this environment where I need tools. I might need a
Speaker 1: knife to protect myself. I might need a lighter to
Speaker 1: start a fire, or I might need a whistle to
Speaker 1: alert people that I'm injured or my friends that are
Speaker 1: like on the other side of the mountain or field
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so it really wasn't the most intentional thing.
Speaker 1: It was just like, this is what I'm doing, this
Speaker 1: is what I'm sharing on my social media, and now
Speaker 1: it just kind of like authentically connects. I think it
Speaker 1: would have been strange if I was in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: trying to tell a New York story. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I think it
Speaker 1: has to be authentic. And that's why even like the
Speaker 1: Puma Haliburn thing that I've been doing is authentic because
Speaker 1: I grew up pooping, you know. Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 4: You kind of had like the reverse career as far
Speaker 4: as trying to go to the quote unquote designer brand
Speaker 4: thing like earlier. How I was even introduced to you
Speaker 4: was through the Versace stuff. I would have never guessed
Speaker 4: at that point off those Versace designs that everything you
Speaker 4: would do after would look the way it looked like.
Speaker 4: Now I get it, because through Crocs, through New Balance,
Speaker 4: through everything that you've done, I understand your aesthetic. Versace
Speaker 4: would have been the last fucking brand I would have
Speaker 4: thought that maybe you would have worked with, And it
Speaker 4: was the one that introduced me to your designs. Yeah,
Speaker 4: which is kind of weird because usually that process is switched.
Speaker 4: You'll do maybe the lesser brands and then go right
Speaker 4: to designer if you want to. I would never guess
Speaker 4: you would even want to do high end designer stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, for one, that's when I was like a nine
Speaker 1: to five employees So that was about making a shoe
Speaker 1: that was the best thing for Versace. It had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with like me being involved. Maybe looking in retrospect,
Speaker 1: maybe you could see a little bit of the style
Speaker 1: or the so but like for the most part, that
Speaker 1: was a Versachi shoe. But now when the collaborative shoes
Speaker 1: have my name on it, now I'm able to like
Speaker 1: really do my dance and kind of do what I want.
Speaker 3: You have full creative control.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's but at the same time, there is
Speaker 1: like I couldn't just come in here and be like,
Speaker 1: all right, listen, flip Flops, Timberlands, let's see how we
Speaker 1: can merge these ideas. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, it needs to make like commercial sense, but
Speaker 1: I think I haven't. I've had enough of a history
Speaker 1: of proof of concept and success that now there's trust.
Speaker 1: So now like they're willing to give me budgets to
Speaker 1: do the campaigns and no one shows up and I
Speaker 1: can just like get it done and then they're just
Speaker 1: expecting your assets. Yeah. So I think with proof of
Speaker 1: concept in any field, there's more trust and people just
Speaker 1: expect you to perform.
Speaker 2: I've noticed over the years though, like the sneaker the
Speaker 2: sneaker game has changed a lot from retail to just
Speaker 2: fashion and in style. But one thing that kind of
Speaker 2: like blew me away. Last week I was talking to
Speaker 2: my boy and he last year he sold his Jordan
Speaker 2: one shot a backboards. He sold them, somebody used, he
Speaker 2: wore them a couple of times, sold them for five
Speaker 2: hundred dollars. He just bought them again this year, last
Speaker 2: week's they're sitting on the shelves for one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty dollars. How does that shift in a year where
Speaker 2: you can sell this same exact shoe like resale, yeah,
Speaker 2: for five hundred and then twelve months later it's sitting
Speaker 2: on the shelves. One of the most iconic Jordan ones
Speaker 2: ever is just sitting on the shelves, Like, how does
Speaker 2: the market fluctuate that like drastically and such a short time.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you two things, so one and that's
Speaker 1: why I believe, you know, starting a brand right now
Speaker 1: is the most appropriate time. I've been witnessing the death
Speaker 1: of hype. I don't think it's dead. I don't want
Speaker 1: it to die with Yeah, I would love to see
Speaker 1: it be revived. However, I'm witnessing the death of it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like brands are investing in collaborations as much.
Speaker 1: They're not telling stories, and the consumer is more edge
Speaker 1: than they've ever been, so they see through the bullshit
Speaker 1: like very easily. That combined with like maybe a pending
Speaker 1: or existing recession, people are not spending money and there
Speaker 1: is a huge oversaturation of product and things and gone
Speaker 1: other times where you would like kind of wait for
Speaker 1: a release to happen. They're happening every fucking day, and
Speaker 1: so now I don't know if people are as invested.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think the whole brand thing makes sense,
Speaker 1: because it's not about just like you know, pulling out
Speaker 1: this like shiny rabbit out of my hat and being like,
Speaker 1: by this thing and it'll be gone tomorrow. It's more
Speaker 1: about like long term investment in community building and telling stories.
Speaker 1: Did that shift happen?
Speaker 4: And of course we don't need to talk about Kanye's politics,
Speaker 4: but once Kanye went to Adidas after the Nike thing,
Speaker 4: where you know, it.
Speaker 1: Was very tough to get the red octobers and.
Speaker 4: His goal was to make sure you could afford Yeasies
Speaker 4: and they were readily available at all times the Mass deal,
Speaker 4: did that shift happen there? Because now you have what
Speaker 4: would be quote unquote the hype Beast collab. Once Kanye
Speaker 4: was with Nike and then you could just walk into
Speaker 4: any foot locker and get some some Yeasies for a
Speaker 4: reasonable price. Once he went over to Adidas, like the
Speaker 4: hype wasn't there. I thought that was a good thing.
Speaker 4: I thought they were quality shoes. And affordable, and I
Speaker 4: hate when you can't just go get some shit that
Speaker 4: you want.
Speaker 1: But no, So that's an interesting it's funny that you
Speaker 1: say that. So, and this isn't my take. There's this dude,
Speaker 1: Jacques Slid. I've repeated this on like every for every
Speaker 1: conversation I've had, but he pretty much was talking about
Speaker 1: how the white Jordan cement for has been sitting on
Speaker 1: shelves and outlets and people are really upset about that.
Speaker 1: But that really shows you how backwards the sneaker community
Speaker 1: is now, where like if there is an iconic shoe
Speaker 1: and it's accessible, we're angry because we're used to we
Speaker 1: need to be like waiting in line in the rain
Speaker 1: and being whipped or something, or spend spending an obscene
Speaker 1: amount of money on resale for you to feel like
Speaker 1: you own it, right, and so you'll brought her a
Speaker 1: cool crowd exactly. And so that's kind of how backwards
Speaker 1: things are right now, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's almost like I feel like in the hip
Speaker 4: hop world, when fans feel like they got to an
Speaker 4: artist early and then the artist becomes popular and they're mad.
Speaker 4: It's like you don't want you to show I'm not
Speaker 4: going to do. You don't want your favorite artists to
Speaker 4: be popular.
Speaker 2: But it is a different time though Slay, Like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I can get a classic Jordan's shoe easier, and I
Speaker 2: can get your shoe or easier and I can get
Speaker 2: Joe Fresh Goods or you.
Speaker 3: Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's like that is just crazy to me, Like it's
Speaker 2: it's long going of the days where you know, Jordan's
Speaker 2: will sell out and it's like, I gotta go pay
Speaker 2: resale now I'm paying resale for your shoe or Joe
Speaker 2: Fresh Gooods or Action Bronson's new Balance, like it it's
Speaker 2: insane the way it has flipped to. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not just the iconic athlete that's selling sneakers anymore. It's
Speaker 2: like creators and influencers who have a lot of style
Speaker 2: and have been in the sneaking industry shoe industry for
Speaker 2: so long, who are now doing their own thing. Like
Speaker 2: those are the products that I think we want and
Speaker 2: believe in more because we kind of feel like we
Speaker 2: saw a Salty story.
Speaker 3: We saw him, we saw his ascension, and.
Speaker 2: Now he's here creating this thing where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I need to be a part of this because his
Speaker 2: work speaks for itself. His brand throughout the years just
Speaker 2: told the story and it's a part of the story.
Speaker 2: If I don't have that, that's like a chapter that
Speaker 2: I'm missing out on the so lazy story a little bit.
Speaker 2: Is that something that you've done intentionally to create this
Speaker 2: timeline and this storyline?
Speaker 1: Has it been intentional?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: I think it's I've just been kind of like nimble
Speaker 1: and like and kind of flex like flexible I want
Speaker 1: to yeah, I would say, yeah, just flexible with the
Speaker 1: opportunities that I've been given. And I think that now
Speaker 1: that a lot of the work has had my name
Speaker 1: on it, there's been this red thread that exists simply
Speaker 1: because I can like make it how I want to
Speaker 1: make it. And so I'm also somewhat of a selfish
Speaker 1: designer because up util this point, prebrand, a lot of
Speaker 1: these collaborations were just things I wanted to wear. I
Speaker 1: was like, what's going to be dope? What's going to
Speaker 1: be dope for this opportunity or this brand?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: And so with like a Croc, I thought to myself, man,
Speaker 1: like I respect the brand of Crocs. They've existed for decades,
Speaker 1: but I've never really worn crocks like that, like maybe
Speaker 1: had one or two in the closet, They've never really
Speaker 1: left the house. How could I challenge myself to create
Speaker 1: a crock that looks cool and that people want to
Speaker 1: wear and that potentially you can like even exist within
Speaker 1: like this sneaker space. Right, so there are even like
Speaker 1: a lot of decisions with that shoe or like I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, they put a lot of their
Speaker 1: crocks and like bags, so when you buy a crack,
Speaker 1: it comes in like a bag. Yeah. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: we need to have like a box because this I
Speaker 1: was even asking you about your sneakers. The sneaker snack,
Speaker 1: the sneaker stacking ritual is a really important ritual within sneakers.
Speaker 1: So immediately if we're making this thing that we wanted
Speaker 1: the sneaker crowd to respect and they can't even stack
Speaker 1: their boxes, yea, yeah, we were already behind. Like even
Speaker 1: your boxes are art is a piece now, thank you?
Speaker 2: Like when you get them, it's like I know by
Speaker 2: stacking them obviously you know sneak As we you stack
Speaker 2: our boxes is always the label out.
Speaker 3: So we know exactly who what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with yours, I can just look at the color
Speaker 2: of the box put on top of it, I know
Speaker 2: exactly what it is. To me, that's just a certain
Speaker 2: attention to detail. I think that you know, guys like you,
Speaker 2: guys like Joe fresh Good's Action Bronch and like y'all
Speaker 2: pay attention to those certain things.
Speaker 1: How really is the thing of please? So if you
Speaker 1: think about when you get an iPhone and you peel
Speaker 1: off that piece of plastic and how smooth it comes up, right,
Speaker 1: every every every piece of real estate on a product
Speaker 1: is an opportunity to execute detail or display your brand
Speaker 1: or portray excellent. So I really I believe in that.
Speaker 1: And so whether it's the packaging or any of that stuff,
Speaker 1: I think that lets the people know that it's the brand.
Speaker 1: And so if you think about that Apple example, like
Speaker 1: if you got an iPhone, then you peeled the plastic
Speaker 1: off and it was.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, they just do this together.
Speaker 1: This isn't an iPhone with Apple, It's like excellent. So yeah,
Speaker 1: with all the things I create, I try to be
Speaker 1: like intentional about you know, how it's done.
Speaker 2: How many silhouettes have you you know, through the companies
Speaker 2: you work for, like the silhouettes that are sitting there
Speaker 2: where you're like, okay, let me take these and put
Speaker 2: the silet he spent on it. Because a lot of
Speaker 2: the easies that we've seen.
Speaker 4: He's posted silhouettes that aren't coming out that have pissed
Speaker 4: me off.
Speaker 1: Then you could have kept that to yourself. You need Instagram.
Speaker 2: But I can imagine these brands like Puma and Adidas
Speaker 2: were easy.
Speaker 3: They just have this warehouse full of silhouettes.
Speaker 2: That they can't move, like quote unquote the Dad Sneaker,
Speaker 2: I think the wave Runner is this dad sneaker that
Speaker 2: Kanye just got his hands on and put some beautiful
Speaker 2: ballads to it and just kind of.
Speaker 1: Like, how how often does that happen.
Speaker 2: When you when the brand reaches out to you and says, hey,
Speaker 2: we want to we want to partner with you, we
Speaker 2: want to bring you in. Like how often do you
Speaker 2: just go into the warehouse and just see the silhouettes
Speaker 2: and like, Okay, I want these four and let me
Speaker 2: do my thing with these.
Speaker 1: So it kind of depends on the amount of time
Speaker 1: that you have, right because to actually make a shoe,
Speaker 1: both design it and then develop it. Like when I
Speaker 1: say develop it, I mean like factory samples that whole
Speaker 1: exchange that can take up to a year. So like
Speaker 1: even the Halliburns you for example, like that took like
Speaker 1: a year. But then these runners that I recently came
Speaker 1: out with Puma, that is an existing shoe that I've
Speaker 1: kind of missed, potato headed some like new details on
Speaker 1: to make it feel fresh. The way that I differ
Speaker 1: as a collaborator is I'm a classically trained designer. I
Speaker 1: went to school for this shit. I can take a
Speaker 1: white piece of paper and create something and make it
Speaker 1: into a real shoe.
Speaker 3: Classically trained designer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if that's my term. I've been
Speaker 1: saying that it feels that sounds fine, like.
Speaker 4: The Juilliard version of design, Like I really went to school,
Speaker 4: exhibit to school.
Speaker 1: I went to school for this, So I make things.
Speaker 1: I know my ship, And I think there's a difference
Speaker 1: with collaborations where they might take a shoe and just
Speaker 1: add color to it and then what I do, which
Speaker 1: is design something from the ground up. And I'm not
Speaker 1: devaluing that at all because some of the best collaborations
Speaker 1: of our time are color up. So I want to
Speaker 1: make that very clear. But there's a difference, and so
Speaker 1: you know, getting the opportunity with a brand to like
Speaker 1: go into their archive and take a shoe and then
Speaker 1: give a color. That's a cool opportunity, but I am
Speaker 1: definitely way more attracted to making something new. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and then what's cool is like there's a Steve Jobs
Speaker 1: quote that says the audience or the consumer doesn't know
Speaker 1: what they want until you show it to them, and
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, the crock is a perfect
Speaker 1: example of that because if you were to ask people,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the people, you know, the amount
Speaker 1: of messages that I got that said like this made
Speaker 1: me wear cracks for the first time. Like if you'd
Speaker 1: ask those people a year ago, like, hey, like you're
Speaker 1: gonna be wearing crocs to like the club, You're crazy.
Speaker 1: But that's just an example of them not knowing what
Speaker 1: they want you or making a sensible shoe. Cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because crocs were always they were always comfortable, comfortable time,
Speaker 4: but it was just it was the moms started it,
Speaker 4: so it just kind of turned into that type of
Speaker 4: image of like I can't just be walking outside and crocs,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get smoke.
Speaker 2: The Lady's Crock is the first crock I ever wore
Speaker 2: lights to the airport, like a great airport.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bro, good travel shoes, good travel shoes.
Speaker 4: I just recently bought them. I don't know if we've
Speaker 4: called the forest print one that you just I bought.
Speaker 1: That research free camo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went right
Speaker 1: to the resale to get that ship.
Speaker 2: Now, how often do you do you play with like textures,
Speaker 2: because I've noticed on a lot of your sneakers the
Speaker 2: textures get a little different depending on what it is,
Speaker 2: especially the ones with the whistle on it. Like that
Speaker 2: whole shoe just felt like a whole thing that we use,
Speaker 2: like all right, I want this here, I want this here.
Speaker 2: How often do you jump into projects like that where
Speaker 2: you're like, I want to think of the craziest.
Speaker 1: Ship, yeah, and just execute it. So that year one
Speaker 1: that was that was called the year at the Whistle one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was new balance. I had done two shoes prior,
Speaker 1: which were color ups. That's why I'm not hating on
Speaker 1: color ups. I've had I've had a mini collaborations and
Speaker 1: color ups, and then they wanted me to design something
Speaker 1: from scratch. They wanted the I guess the foundation of
Speaker 1: the show had to be the five seven four, you
Speaker 1: got similiar some four. I'm not the crazy about the
Speaker 1: craziest about the five seven four, So I put a
Speaker 1: lot of details on that to try to make it
Speaker 1: feel different. So it's kind of a mister mister potato
Speaker 1: head execution. And then yeah, I was hiking a lot
Speaker 1: and and there's coyote, Like you could be hiking into
Speaker 1: your coyote year, you could hiking into your manline. I've
Speaker 1: never seen the maudline. But you need tools. I hike
Speaker 1: with like some weapons, you know, because if you do,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be caught without it. When the
Speaker 1: lion roll.
Speaker 2: I like, I like the whistle, But I was like
Speaker 2: your selet from New York, Like, where can I stash
Speaker 2: the you know, make make the make the joint where.
Speaker 1: I could put put the put the ox. I could
Speaker 1: put the box cut in hot ship.
Speaker 4: But how dirty New York City is? I might just
Speaker 4: I might just get beat up. I'm my mouth, I'm
Speaker 4: not with like, I'm not we're not doing that. But
Speaker 4: let me put a little different.
Speaker 2: Put a little pocket with the blade and right, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: So who's some of the greatest sneaker designers that you've
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to sit with and kind of just
Speaker 2: like soak up some knowledge and something I.
Speaker 1: Love that I've never asked that question. There's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to just shout out some o gs. So it's tinkering asshole.
Speaker 1: I've only met I've only met him on some like
Speaker 1: shake his hand, maybe take a photo. Actually no, I've
Speaker 1: never taken a photo of him, but just shake his
Speaker 1: handside with I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: That's that's my favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No he's No, he's because you're saying, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I think he's a good guy. There's a there's a
Speaker 1: Netflix dot called Abstract. So I watched that. He looked good.
Speaker 1: He looked like a good yea, it looked like a
Speaker 1: cool guy. Yeah. So Nathan man Hook he is a
Speaker 1: designer that was at Nike for a bunch of years.
Speaker 1: He designed the Easy two. He was head of a
Speaker 1: CG for a very long time. He has a banger
Speaker 1: after banger, and then he went to Montclair and when
Speaker 1: I did My Mind Claire Collaboration got to work with
Speaker 1: him there, which was cool, just kind of like working
Speaker 1: with an idol. And now he is currently at Adidas
Speaker 1: doing like Adidas basketball another Jeff Henderson. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: brought him up in probably every interview I've done. He
Speaker 1: was at Nike for like twenty years. We met at Colhon.
Speaker 1: I worked under him there, and then he helped me
Speaker 1: actually get the easy gig because he was doing some
Speaker 1: design work with him. Is that the one you got
Speaker 1: when you DM somebody on LinkedIn? That was for Versace?
Speaker 1: I can tell that story as well, Okay. And then
Speaker 1: who else is a good a good designer? M oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Fardin has Ratizade. He was my assistant designer at Versace. Okay,
Speaker 1: so when I get into the Versadi st I explain that.
Speaker 1: But it was just me and him and we were
Speaker 1: just doing a gang of shoes together. And now he
Speaker 1: works at a Miri and he's killing killing things, like
Speaker 1: doing shoes and accessories, and it's just cool to like
Speaker 1: see like have someone to work under you and then
Speaker 1: see them grow and the blossom shoes, shoes. Who else
Speaker 1: t bow is He used to be the Dior footwear designer,
Speaker 1: so he designed like the be twenty two. This was
Speaker 1: around the time of like the Triples and around the
Speaker 1: period of time, and he is now he now does
Speaker 1: footwear and sneakers for l V, as well as a
Speaker 1: pretty cool birkanstyle collab that he just did. There's a
Speaker 1: pretty small community of footwear designers and it will seem
Speaker 1: to all know each other because it's like a very
Speaker 1: specific craft. So yeah, shout out all those people.
Speaker 3: So now where's the brand now?
Speaker 1: Okay. So when I first left for Sachi and I
Speaker 1: was going to kind of like be out on my own,
Speaker 1: the first thing that I knew was just to make
Speaker 1: a T shirt company. I grew up in Tribeca Lower
Speaker 1: East Side, kid, I grew up on all these a
Speaker 1: life and all these stores you know, to make ah,
Speaker 1: exactly that like that. When that show was on, I
Speaker 1: was literally living that exact life. So I was like,
Speaker 1: that was one of the most legendary shows of all time.
Speaker 1: Absolutely shout out Brian, I don't know the other guy's name,
Speaker 1: and uh, bring me back, bring me back to how
Speaker 1: to make an America took me somewhere with Sponge Sponge I.
Speaker 2: Started, yea, so lady still going back there, Like I
Speaker 2: was selling Nicks and.
Speaker 1: Doms, right, yeah, yeah, So I started making T shirts,
Speaker 1: making hoodies, making sweatpants and stuff, and it really existed
Speaker 1: as like a streetwear brand so that you know, things
Speaker 1: were selling out, but I was I wasn't really like
Speaker 1: wearing the stuff too much. It was just more an
Speaker 1: umbrella for me to kind of do whatever I wanted
Speaker 1: because I had existed in this space for so long
Speaker 1: where we were following trends and trying to hit different consumers,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, let me just
Speaker 1: make some patterns sweatpans just because I want to write.
Speaker 1: So it's more so freedom. Now. What this is is
Speaker 1: I am making a real proper brand with ownership and
Speaker 1: partners and all the resources that I would need to
Speaker 1: compete with the footwear giants that exist in our space
Speaker 1: and have existed for the last like thirty forty years.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, this is the result. It will not
Speaker 1: exist in hype that much. It'll be more about serving
Speaker 1: as many people that want to be involved in the
Speaker 1: operation as possible, and it will be about bringing in
Speaker 1: community because a lot of my work in the past
Speaker 1: at least like six years, has been about exclusion and hype.
Speaker 1: And you can't get this and that's literally how we
Speaker 1: started this, Like I can't get the shoes. The idea
Speaker 1: is at a certain point anyone that wants sponge foothere
Speaker 1: will be able to get it. There will be some
Speaker 1: certain moments of hype, because that's where I come from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this is about the full pie.
Speaker 4: Was was that the plan with the spongebrand, even like
Speaker 4: years ago when you were doing the Croc stuff and
Speaker 4: even other collapse you would send the friends and family
Speaker 4: ship through the Sponge website, which wasn't always the Sponge brand, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was kind of like a little corporate
Speaker 1: finessing I did. Yeah, so every every new Balance and
Speaker 1: Crocs campaign I believe featured Sponge socks and what and
Speaker 1: what I was doing with that was kind of hijacking
Speaker 1: all of those campaigns on a very sub like on
Speaker 1: a lower level, like not a lower level, but kind
Speaker 1: of like in a secret way, if you will, intentional,
Speaker 1: but like low as a way to just publicize the
Speaker 1: logo because the most the valuable thing about a logo
Speaker 1: is the amount of times you've seen it, because then
Speaker 1: it becomes more and more like recognizable, iconic whatever. So
Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, if I have some far off
Speaker 1: plan of starting a brand, why not just like inject
Speaker 1: did into these campaigns. And I wasn't really thinking like hijack.
Speaker 1: That's more like, like, no, it was tastefully yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like it wasn't like it was in your face.
Speaker 1: And then also the models needed clothes to wear, so
Speaker 1: all often the clothes were all sponge. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: this was like kind of like and a lot of
Speaker 1: these campaigns like had massive budgets, So I was like,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a hijacking in a sense respectful when.
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, no, I was a perfect way to
Speaker 4: go about it, because that's how I even got familiar
Speaker 4: to it. And then with the website, I didn't fully know.
Speaker 4: I just knew that that was part of your brand.
Speaker 4: Sponge some somehow has to do with you, So that
Speaker 4: made more sense. With launching the sponge, choose to be like, Okay,
Speaker 4: this was the next step in the entire process.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it existed as an Instagram with no
Speaker 1: photos for like years, and my platform for where I
Speaker 1: sold my collaborations was called be a Sponge. So then
Speaker 1: that was also kind of a way to publicize what
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly I was sure I was ready
Speaker 1: to do yet, but on the maybe opportunity on the horizon,
Speaker 1: and yeah, and then now this moment is really more
Speaker 1: about like a transition. So collaborations will continue, but I
Speaker 1: really want to explore full brand ownership and get to
Speaker 1: create freely and not necessarily collaboratively, because when you create collaboratively,
Speaker 1: there are obstacles. Things don't always go your way, right
Speaker 1: when you have two different parties trying to reach a
Speaker 1: common destination. Different parties want different things. And so now
Speaker 1: with this brand, it's just going to be It's going
Speaker 1: to be mind and I'm excited. Would you rather sell?
Speaker 2: Would you rather make one hundred shoes and sell one
Speaker 2: hundred shoes or make a thousand and sell six fifty?
Speaker 1: Make one hundred shoes and sell one hundred shoes.
Speaker 3: Or make a thousand and sell six to fifty.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't get what you're asking me that that's
Speaker 1: a lot of numbers, because would you rather keep it?
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, because would you rather keep it like
Speaker 2: very small? A very small release or a wider release,
Speaker 2: but you don't sell all the way through like the
Speaker 2: shoot up?
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it depends what part of the business
Speaker 1: that you're in. You know, if you're introducing a brand,
Speaker 1: it might be a little bit different. Because going back
Speaker 1: to the whole demand thing. It's like, if a shoe
Speaker 1: releases right now and they make enough for everybody, and
Speaker 1: maybe someone in your life that you don't deem to
Speaker 1: be cool has them, you're taking them off immediately, right.
Speaker 1: But then if a shoe releases and you can't get
Speaker 1: it at all and it's too rare, you're also upset, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because then I see a kid walking down fucking kin
Speaker 2: Mare that has him on and I'm like, he not
Speaker 2: even doing them, right. He went some bullshit like I
Speaker 2: don't fuck he got I can't even get those, so
Speaker 2: he stood online he got them. Yeah, And it's like
Speaker 2: now I'm mad because I'm like, they only made a
Speaker 2: hundred of those.
Speaker 4: Like yeah, but that was even like when you were
Speaker 4: a kid and the richer kid at your school got
Speaker 4: the new Jordan's, but he laced them too tight worm
Speaker 4: with corduroys, like he didn't even like, you don't even
Speaker 4: deserve those types of sneakers. That's just that sneaker culture.
Speaker 4: That's kind of like what comes like, all right, so words,
Speaker 4: the definition of words change as time goes. In twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five, would you consider yourself a sneakerhead? Everyone's hype beast?
Speaker 4: And then you figured out your tribe and it went
Speaker 4: to sneaker.
Speaker 1: Yes, at that way. But even with hypees though, hype
Speaker 1: East used to be or is, but it used to
Speaker 1: be like one of the only websites that documented this culture.
Speaker 1: So it was the website. And then I think again
Speaker 1: the media was like what do we call these people?
Speaker 4: And it like hype beasts shouldn't have ended up being
Speaker 4: somewhat of an insult to somebody like you a hypeieast,
Speaker 4: which is fucked up. Yeah, because you're right, hype Piast
Speaker 4: was the only one that was. It was during like
Speaker 4: the blog era of music, like that first early time
Speaker 4: of I think even taste Maker's culture was off hype Beast.
Speaker 4: Then the world found out about it, and you got
Speaker 4: a bunch of dwaves that are in the same line
Speaker 4: as you, and then it's.
Speaker 1: Like, yore you a fucking hype East. Get away from me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's but it's almost a perspective thing because there
Speaker 1: are some people that are happy to be called hipster
Speaker 1: and there's some people that would hate to be called hipster.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I never minded it until again, words take new
Speaker 4: definitions as time goes because in the beginning, yeah, like
Speaker 4: a hipster would have never offended me.
Speaker 1: It's fine with me. Cool now I know you saying
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think sneakerhead now has gotten that that
Speaker 4: that insults to some degree too, because when people ask
Speaker 4: you had a ten outside Supreme store right now away
Speaker 4: from I think I'm a sneakerhead.
Speaker 1: I don't think you are. I don't chase like I.
Speaker 2: Don't chase the sneakers. You appreciate that, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: If I like it, I get it. But like, I
Speaker 2: think a sneakerhead is a kid that you see at
Speaker 2: every release.
Speaker 1: He's chasing every drops, nothing wrong, nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 1: A reseller, though.
Speaker 3: But I think though, I think now that's it.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that because I think it's one
Speaker 2: in the same difference I think sneakerheads. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of sneakerheads are now resellers.
Speaker 1: I just had a I just came from a signing
Speaker 1: a kid. Then there are some kids there that were like,
Speaker 1: really happy to meet me. You want to take a photo,
Speaker 1: ask me a question. If you kids there that just
Speaker 1: get it signed and walk away, you can tell the difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there resellers there. And they're going, yeah, but I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not the resell game. How do you feel about that? Like,
Speaker 2: how do you feel seeing your sneakers sold for double
Speaker 2: which you sold them on your website? Like is it
Speaker 2: like you don't care once they buy it what they
Speaker 2: do with it is not your business? Or do you
Speaker 2: still kind of feel like I wish they weren't doing that.
Speaker 1: I think everyone has a hustle. I think I came
Speaker 1: from this. I used to camp Supreme is it. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a new Supreme, but the old Supreme that was
Speaker 1: only ten blocks from here. I used to camp out
Speaker 1: there as a high schooler, buy a two hundred dollars
Speaker 1: pair of shoes and sell them the same day for
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars, and so like, I can't hate on
Speaker 1: anyone getting that kind of hustling, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And those are great experiences I remember, just like camping out,
Speaker 1: going to the bathroom in bodega's, watching Family Guy my
Speaker 1: portable DVD player. Yeah, those are good times, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, back when they were selling the Supreme teaese on
Speaker 2: the table, Yeah, you just have the teacher and the
Speaker 2: folding table.
Speaker 4: They got me for two fifty six on his crocs
Speaker 4: last week.
Speaker 1: Okay, so dude, you guys, can you just hit me?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like to posit it now well
Speaker 1: now and now you can't. Yeah, I'm not guy, bro.
Speaker 2: You know how many people hit me like yo the
Speaker 2: silet's I'm like, I'll just be biting my love.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you's fucking joined the so far. But I'm
Speaker 3: not hitting Silas.
Speaker 1: I'm just not that.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like doing it. If I can get him,
Speaker 1: I'll get him in No. This is a perfect transition
Speaker 1: for my versace story because it's about asking you guys. Ready, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm ready yet, Maul.
Speaker 4: I know you're thinking about upgrading to an all new
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Speaker 3: Yeah, my thoughts again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, man, weeks you've been thinking about this whatever.
Speaker 4: You're also thinking about the traffic on the way there.
Speaker 4: I'll think about that all the time, yes, you in
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Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So I moved to LA to design for Kanye
Speaker 1: different conversation. That job exists for about fourteen months, it ends,
Speaker 1: and now I'm looking up and I'm like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles because I'm in New York. I moved
Speaker 1: out there for that job. I never knew that, but yes,
Speaker 1: native New Yorker moved out there for that job. Be
Speaker 1: out there for like ten years now. And so I
Speaker 1: look up and I'm like, oh, I'm in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: I got to figure it out. I start freelancing for
Speaker 1: different brands brand no like good brands, but just brands
Speaker 1: like make a paycheck. I get to the end of
Speaker 1: that year, I have two months rent left. I don't
Speaker 1: really know what I'm going to do. I'm shooting my
Speaker 1: shot everywhere on LinkedIn and Craigslist and just everywhere right,
Speaker 1: just hoping anyone replies. So it's not even about getting
Speaker 1: like a flashy job. It's just about getting a job,
Speaker 1: getting getting a paycheck. And then I see a Verashachi
Speaker 1: design director and I hit him up and I propose
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I'm like, the sneaker industry is a multi
Speaker 1: billion dollar business. When we were growing up, it was
Speaker 1: about Nike, Rebak, Adidas, pum a New Balance. And now
Speaker 1: when I said this, it was five years ago. Now
Speaker 1: five years ago because of raf Raff, Adidas, Ni Nike
Speaker 1: come to Garson and blndcy I starts making cool ship.
Speaker 1: Now this multi billion dollar consumer is aware of the
Speaker 1: fact that fashion houses can make sneakers. So I was like,
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity for you guys. What did you say?
Speaker 3: Why three?
Speaker 1: Exactly? Why three? As well? You should?
Speaker 4: I feel like Door was putting out out of all
Speaker 4: the those types.
Speaker 1: It was like this storm of brands, like like a
Speaker 1: light bulb moment of like, wait, we can make shoes too,
Speaker 1: So this is me just bite from a lot of
Speaker 1: other shoes.
Speaker 4: But that's another com yeah, another But I saw I
Speaker 4: saw the question threes and in no strooms was marsh.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, what the fuck do we table that?
Speaker 1: Because I got to I got a perspective of that.
Speaker 1: So wait where my or my LinkedIn? And so I
Speaker 1: proposed that opportunity just shooting my shot. I'm like the
Speaker 1: image of unemployment? Am I underwear eating cereal? Like on
Speaker 1: my couch and ship? And three days later, Donna Teller
Speaker 1: replied to me Don Teller Verrasacci. And I wasn't that
Speaker 1: familiar with who she was because I didn't go to
Speaker 1: school for fashion. But I just knew that there was
Speaker 1: like this important blonde lady and that was black that
Speaker 1: were black in high fashion, right, So I was like,
Speaker 1: did I know this is someone? And so I she said,
Speaker 1: she reaches out and she says she wants me to
Speaker 1: come to mind and tell her more. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to just go out there with a few pages of
Speaker 1: like trend of like probably just screenshots from hype beasts
Speaker 1: of like check you guys, ever heard of Camo? You know, like,
Speaker 1: well that's where my taste was, yeah, Jordan and so.
Speaker 1: But then the week leading up it was strange. It's
Speaker 1: like someone was like, you should do some sample design work.
Speaker 1: Don't assume they know you can design. Someone else was like,
Speaker 1: go to the store, see what's telling do you market research?
Speaker 1: Another person was like, they're untuning people that look like
Speaker 1: me or you in the high fashion space. So it's
Speaker 1: bigger than us or bigger than me, and I could
Speaker 1: be paving away. So what was going to be like
Speaker 1: a four page presentation turned into like a forty page presentation.
Speaker 1: I go out to Milan, presented down to tell on
Speaker 1: one on one. She starts bringing people into the room.
Speaker 1: She loves it. At the end of it, she's like,
Speaker 1: I love you. I want to hire you. I want
Speaker 1: you to like move out to Milan, or what do
Speaker 1: you want to do? She was like, do you want
Speaker 1: to consult? Do you want to come out here for
Speaker 1: like a season? What do you want? So she was
Speaker 1: so flexible about it. I was like, and I have
Speaker 1: my own design studio in La and then I'll come
Speaker 1: here once a month for shows and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, factory visits and stuff, and she was like sure,
Speaker 1: So then I went outside and did my pursuit of happiness. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's also that moment.
Speaker 4: But to speak to her too, usually, especially on this podcast,
Speaker 4: we shipped on a lot of execs. That's an amazing
Speaker 4: story from an exec perspective too, that yeah, because I
Speaker 4: like of what you've turned out to be. Clearly she
Speaker 4: saw a vision that you had and knew how talents
Speaker 4: would you work. That's a crazy thing to just be
Speaker 4: that flexible, like what do you want to do?
Speaker 1: But most execs don't.
Speaker 4: Do that type of stuff, not taking any especially when
Speaker 4: it's unproven.
Speaker 1: She changed my life. So not taking anything away from
Speaker 1: the decision that she made and maybe what she saw
Speaker 1: in me. But another thing that was happening simultaneously was
Speaker 1: Virgil was just doing what he did at LV. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, and so now you have this world, this
Speaker 1: high fashion world that maybe isn't the most familiar with
Speaker 1: people that look like a Virgil or myself doing shit
Speaker 1: like that. And so I definitely think that the storm
Speaker 1: that he was creating where he was was kind of
Speaker 1: just opening up to the eyes to that entire world,
Speaker 1: you know, and not completely but just maybe making them
Speaker 1: things like damn. And then not only that, it was
Speaker 1: I'm another one coming off the Kanye tree and during
Speaker 1: that period of time anyone that was a designer, And
Speaker 1: actually I was just on the cutting room floor and
Speaker 1: she made me realize this a male designer, which I
Speaker 1: believe to be true by just proximity. You were knighted,
Speaker 1: you were also mad. So like I think the combination
Speaker 1: of Donna Teller, you know, observing something in me, but
Speaker 1: then also Virgil showing them what we can do and
Speaker 1: then also having a little bit of that of that
Speaker 1: yeasy dustiny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much of influence speaking of Virgil? Was Virgil
Speaker 2: for you with everything he did with Off White and
Speaker 2: then what he did obviously with footwear and now to
Speaker 2: what Pharrell is doing. Like these are guys that I
Speaker 2: mean Pharrell in particular, somebody that we've always looked at
Speaker 2: and always just like had the right pieces on and
Speaker 2: the way he put it together was always just a
Speaker 2: fashionable person. But to see the spaces that Pharrell is
Speaker 2: in now obviously, how much of that inspires you and
Speaker 2: has helped you along your journey?
Speaker 1: I mean I would just say with a Virgil it
Speaker 1: was really more about representation. I think the obvious things
Speaker 1: are like wow, Like it's like Obama becoming president, right,
Speaker 1: It's like wow, we can get there, we can be
Speaker 1: accepting this space and have success. But then it it
Speaker 1: was like the smaller things. I was recently saying, this
Speaker 1: is simply him just traveling, like traveling business class in
Speaker 1: a hoodie with Jordan's on, and then he gets to
Speaker 1: the airport, an old white dude picks him up, grabs
Speaker 1: his bags for him. He's in the back of whatever
Speaker 1: dope car, and like these are like superficial things. But
Speaker 1: then also they were very eye opening because anytime I've
Speaker 1: seen this in a movie, it was a white guy
Speaker 1: in of suit, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 1: now I was like, wow, like I can have this too,
Speaker 1: and I don't have to be a rapper to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So just that level of representation and inspiration was really powerful,
Speaker 1: just because I had never really seen it done like
Speaker 1: that before. And now He's going into this like high
Speaker 1: fashion environment and accept it. And so that's ultimately what
Speaker 1: I achieved at Versace. You know, I was in this
Speaker 1: environment where in like Obama supreme like cropped pants and
Speaker 1: like and like hoodies and tied I shirts. But it
Speaker 1: was like I belonged and I brought value. And so
Speaker 1: I think, you know, getting to witness what he did
Speaker 1: made me comfortable doing what I did. And then at
Speaker 1: for A Pharrell, I think more he's like a representation
Speaker 1: of like black alien. There are just some individuals that
Speaker 1: have kind of just inspired me and reminded me that
Speaker 1: that black people exist on a spectrum and it's not
Speaker 1: a monolith. And so where something may have been like
Speaker 1: written off is like weird, like weirdo shit shout out
Speaker 1: Troy AV.
Speaker 4: I mean, if you go through that whole Kendrick and
Speaker 4: Troy Av, I think we see where it landed.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just think that like it's like people
Speaker 1: like Pharrell or Tyler or Yay or even myself for
Speaker 1: people to see and just simply witness is different, regardless
Speaker 1: of talent or anything, just witness like confidence and being
Speaker 1: different in individualism. And you know, so just that's why
Speaker 1: I lean into just being myself so much, you know,
Speaker 1: because I've witnessed people like a Pharrell do the same
Speaker 1: and get so much success for me literally being himself,
Speaker 1: being himself, you know, at.
Speaker 4: A time when it was corny to be everything that
Speaker 4: Pharoh was when he first entered into the world. I
Speaker 4: do want to ask you again with how these high
Speaker 4: end designers have been remixing shoes. It's getting like a
Speaker 4: little insane. Who redid this Sam Smith joint? Everyone was
Speaker 4: wearing those fat McQueen yeah, McQueen McQueen ones with that.
Speaker 4: When we was in Atlanta and the shit across from
Speaker 4: the mall you get killed at, they got the high
Speaker 4: end mall. I went in there, the Margiala's. It was
Speaker 4: really the question threes. Like I was like, this is
Speaker 4: the They're not even trying.
Speaker 1: To hide it. It's legitimately the question three. I think
Speaker 1: it's at the end of the day, it's like business.
Speaker 1: And I don't think they're like this is purely speculation.
Speaker 1: But I don't think they're too invested in like that
Speaker 1: conversation because they didn't really give a fuck, And they
Speaker 1: also know. I think they know that their consumer doesn't
Speaker 1: either know about their original shoot or they give a fuck.
Speaker 1: Like I think if you went up to someone wearing
Speaker 1: those like mcqueens that are maybe like eight hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and you were like those look like one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty five dollars Adidas, Like get that out of my face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so I don't know
Speaker 1: if the consumers are even.
Speaker 4: Like yeah, well even from the standpoint or even the
Speaker 4: questions though, like is there a designer that's in that
Speaker 4: office that's putting that up on a projector like let's
Speaker 4: literally just redo this.
Speaker 1: Well, if you think about it, like if there was
Speaker 1: a shoe that's been successful for like fifty years and
Speaker 1: then you identify that, you can probably make money off
Speaker 1: of it. I'm not saying that's something I would ever
Speaker 1: want to do, but course, especially if you're especially if
Speaker 1: you're a brand, then maybe your four business isn't thriving.
Speaker 1: One of the smartest things in the world would be
Speaker 1: to just identify like a classic shoe because also McQueen
Speaker 1: did it with a I think an Airmax ninety or
Speaker 1: in MX one there's a shoe, yes, exactly air Max
Speaker 1: ninety five. Maybe maybe, but did that was insane? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think there's more worried about the like the at
Speaker 1: least in the sneaker game, the business instead of the
Speaker 1: over the design integrity.
Speaker 4: Perhaps you guys were talking off Mike that you feel like,
Speaker 4: merch wise, you really don't need anything past a guilding hoodie.
Speaker 4: I thought that was an interesting combo you guys were
Speaker 4: having off microphone. Yes, and I think a lot of
Speaker 4: people that listen to this that's still at home merch would.
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying, because when you look at
Speaker 2: guys like you know, West Side Gun was able to
Speaker 2: do with their merch, I mean those were champion blinks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and west might have two fucking rolls Royces and two
Speaker 2: fucking you know, champion blinks.
Speaker 3: But I just, you know, I just feel like now more.
Speaker 2: Than ever, quality and texture, and I think those are
Speaker 2: kind of would set yourself apart.
Speaker 3: I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2: If you're selling, you know, mass amounts of merch, then
Speaker 2: you know you can kind of like but I still
Speaker 2: feel like, you know, when you have something that lasts,
Speaker 2: you know, something that you know. I can have this
Speaker 2: hoodie for three years, I can wash it over and
Speaker 2: over and it gets better with each wash and kind
Speaker 2: of like the worn look. I just feel like, to me,
Speaker 2: I'm on that side of the merch like because I
Speaker 2: want to wear my merch like I don't want to
Speaker 2: just have it and collected. I want to wear this,
Speaker 2: I want to wash it, I want to be able
Speaker 2: to travel with it. Do you still feel like the
Speaker 2: lesser quality or the lighter quality, not as heavy on
Speaker 2: the quality, but obviously just the moment being being able
Speaker 2: to have it say something that says, Okay, I was
Speaker 2: a part of this moment. You think that's the more
Speaker 2: important part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think all the things you listened are
Speaker 1: things that people expect from a brand, not merch, like
Speaker 1: if you saw someone right now.
Speaker 3: But merch is almost a brand now these days.
Speaker 1: No, that's a good point, but I think it's a
Speaker 1: little bit more like temporary, like because I think merch
Speaker 1: constantly has to shift with what the artist is doing
Speaker 1: and like the moment, whereas a brand is a little
Speaker 1: bit more timeless if you think about like the regards
Speaker 1: of how you feel about them currently. But if you
Speaker 1: think about someone wearing a Yeeziest tea or something, you're
Speaker 1: going to see that tea and it's going to bring
Speaker 1: you back to a time, especially if it has a
Speaker 1: year on it. You're like, oh man, that was when
Speaker 1: he was floating over the stage, or black skinhead or whatever.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be like, let me feel that collar.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: I will say the easiest to me was the greatest
Speaker 4: live tour I've ever seen personally, just.
Speaker 1: My opinion, I've bought a dog was amazing, insane.
Speaker 4: I bought the merch at the easiest tour and outside
Speaker 4: of the design being cool and I'm not so about
Speaker 4: the Confederate flag one whenever the other one was the
Speaker 4: first thing I did think when I put the shirt
Speaker 4: on was like, I've never bought merch that was cut
Speaker 4: this way, Like okay, well they cut it different, Like
Speaker 4: I remember sitting there like, oh, this is cut different.
Speaker 1: Like I appreciated that.
Speaker 4: It felt like a more quality see and it was
Speaker 4: sold at the same price at any concert I would
Speaker 4: buy merch at at the garden. So I hear you
Speaker 4: on the merch side, But that did that did like
Speaker 4: resonate with me, Like this shirt. I could wear the
Speaker 4: shirt outside, like to a party.
Speaker 1: I love quality, So I'm definitely not speaking against that,
Speaker 1: but I think the idea of merch is ultimately to
Speaker 1: have a high margin. On the business side, Yeah, absolutely so,
Speaker 1: if you're investing, if you're leaning into like quality too much,
Speaker 1: your fans will love you. But I don't know. This
Speaker 1: is about just merch.
Speaker 4: I mean our first merch line that I think is
Speaker 4: the greatest podcast merch line that ever existed.
Speaker 1: Oh we were We.
Speaker 4: Went in the red purposely, like we knew we were
Speaker 4: going to lose money just based off the quality.
Speaker 1: And to me, that was the best thing. And I
Speaker 1: was fine with losing.
Speaker 4: Money in that regard because the quality was that good
Speaker 4: that s it was like Damny or John Elliottody.
Speaker 1: So like I think, who does it perfectly is like
Speaker 1: Travis Scott because I I've heard this again, I don't know,
Speaker 1: no confirmation, but I've heard that the quality of his
Speaker 1: merch isn't the best, but the design.
Speaker 4: The design makes the quality look okay. When it's on
Speaker 4: your body, it's executed the color paler it does amazing.
Speaker 2: But it's like I wore the sweatsuit when he did
Speaker 2: the Uh I forgot what you drop it? Which cactus
Speaker 2: jack drop? It was probably was the first of the
Speaker 2: second one. I wore a sweatsuit and by the time
Speaker 2: I got home, like in between the legs right here,
Speaker 2: it was like the limp balls. Like this is a
Speaker 2: brand news I'm talking about brand News. First they wore
Speaker 2: and it had like the limp balls, Like I wore
Speaker 2: the ship for three summers. So I'm like, I'm like Travis,
Speaker 2: we can't be doing this, bro.
Speaker 4: Another person that does it well with the quality of
Speaker 4: Saint John, like John, Yeah, they're they're like saying, you're
Speaker 4: saying that some of the best.
Speaker 2: He has some of the best merch that I think
Speaker 2: I've ever seen for any arts.
Speaker 1: But he again I don't know his business, but I
Speaker 1: believe he makes.
Speaker 3: A good He makes a lot of money off merch.
Speaker 2: Like the merch line at his shows after the show
Speaker 2: is over.
Speaker 3: Is like it's like almost like a meet and Greek.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're online waiting to get But again, he
Speaker 2: makes it very specific to the album, the whole story.
Speaker 2: The albums to drop, like you said you want to
Speaker 2: have this, and years they look back like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is when I went and saw him at this, this
Speaker 2: was the drop, this was the album. But again, the
Speaker 2: quality is also very heavy Totten, very heavy sweats And
Speaker 2: I think that's a lot of the reasons why people
Speaker 2: love his merch because they know I can have this
Speaker 2: sweatsuit for five centers and it's gonna look like I
Speaker 2: just got it last week. Whereas with Travis again selling
Speaker 2: a shit ton of merch, but the quality, I'm like,
Speaker 2: at this point, he can I'm not saying it has
Speaker 2: to be fair of god quality. Yeah, I'm not saying
Speaker 2: it has to be Jerry, but we gotta find we
Speaker 2: gotta get a little closer to quality.
Speaker 4: To me, it's more cut than it is quality in
Speaker 4: that I.
Speaker 2: Wasn't mad at the cut, but the fact that I
Speaker 2: had limp balls in between my legs and I only
Speaker 2: had to suit on for three hours was crazy. I
Speaker 2: just thought that, But again I was I was happy
Speaker 2: to have it because it was a moment he had
Speaker 2: just put out the sneaker. Now I got the sweat
Speaker 2: to the sneaker. Like you said, it's a whole storyline.
Speaker 1: So I get that.
Speaker 2: Who's some of your favorite current designers as far as
Speaker 2: like sneakers, Like who are wearing outside of sponge in
Speaker 2: your products?
Speaker 3: Who sneakers do you enjoy wearing?
Speaker 1: There's this brand called viz Vin. I've heard of them,
Speaker 1: You've heard of him. It's a Japanese b to go
Speaker 1: jacket over there. They're not really a sneaker brand by
Speaker 1: any but I wouldn't say, but they make this sandal
Speaker 1: called the Crysto and it's like this kind of like
Speaker 1: you've seen probably Travis Scott or like John Mayer wearing it.
Speaker 1: And it's what's funny about it. There was this like
Speaker 1: tweet about it that said that the Cristo is like
Speaker 1: the male version of the Lui biton Hill because it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel that good, but you feel like a battie okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so and so it's like finally feel like yes, finally yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's honestly not the most comfortable, but
Speaker 1: it's like just a really well made sandal that you
Speaker 1: can have for like ten years and kind of molds
Speaker 1: your foot like a birkenstock. And so Visdom as a
Speaker 1: brand is just like a top tier brand that I love.
Speaker 1: And then also, you know what's tough with that question.
Speaker 1: I'm going to a complex un on this weekend and
Speaker 1: I get asked that question, all these like kids running
Speaker 1: up to me asking me if I'm confident shit, And
Speaker 1: I can't really shout out a lot of the brand
Speaker 1: the shoes that I like because I am not in
Speaker 1: partnership with them. And so that's an endorsement I totally
Speaker 1: get it. I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy how he gotta like you gotta think
Speaker 2: like that now, Like, yeah, I just can't do it.
Speaker 1: But that's a testament to the work that you put in.
Speaker 4: I wanted to not approach this topic because it's going
Speaker 4: to get me riled up. But tonight is the Knicks
Speaker 4: home opener. Yeah, and you work with the enemy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Wait so you guys both
Speaker 1: Dixs fans, right, die hard? Okay, so first time live
Speaker 1: and die on. Let me tell you. Let me tell
Speaker 1: you the full story of this and then you'll understand. Okay.
Speaker 4: So Tyrey Saliburn for those that don't, yes, yes is
Speaker 4: enemy number one who asks.
Speaker 1: So I signed with Puma. It's a new opportunity for
Speaker 1: me because, as you said, I've been telling all these
Speaker 1: outdoor stories and this is the opportunity to tell basketball story.
Speaker 1: Group playing basketball, high school basketball basketball camps. Got a
Speaker 1: lot of bodies in that basketball court in Battery Park City, Okay,
Speaker 1: and uh I signed with Puma. It's basketball. I'm like, great,
Speaker 1: I get to do the whole basketball thing. And they
Speaker 1: also want me to help them sign a basketball player.
Speaker 1: So they gave me a list of basketball players, and
Speaker 1: the one that I chose was Tyrese Haliburn. Truthfully, I
Speaker 1: chose him because I saw what he did to the Knicks,
Speaker 1: not this most recent playoffs, but the one before. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and so we have to pitch to him. We signed him,
Speaker 1: we make the shoe, and then he has the most
Speaker 1: like amazing, you know, season whatever. In response to what
Speaker 1: you just said, if it was between your team and
Speaker 1: your career, what are you choosing, of course?
Speaker 4: And what's funny is after that last playoff series, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: of course we should have on sorry's Haliburton every time
Speaker 4: we got a mic in front of us, But once
Speaker 4: we got beat, it was like that was one of
Speaker 4: the best playoff performances I've ever seen in my entire life.
Speaker 4: Like he is one of the most talented players. Oh,
Speaker 4: it's like definitely, yeah, no, of course I work with him,
Speaker 4: but crazy New York.
Speaker 1: I was a little mad when I found out you
Speaker 1: were the one doing a sneaker. No, anytime around, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm vocal about the next thing. He talks his ship too,
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a nice relationship there. I remember Game
Speaker 1: one of the finals because were trying to figure out
Speaker 1: when he was gonna wear the shoes. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: telling him to wear him against New York. Obviously selfishly,
Speaker 1: he was like not went away for the finals, like
Speaker 1: he saw he had the vision that he was there,
Speaker 1: he already knew. And then I thought that I would
Speaker 1: get emotional if I saw him like hit a three
Speaker 1: or dunk, because this is something basketball is the reason
Speaker 1: that I became a forward designer. And I saw him
Speaker 1: stretching in the tone, and I started weeping, like proper,
Speaker 1: like really, yeah, it's amazing though. This was the little
Speaker 1: kid and me finally accomplishing the thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: acomplish my entire life at that moment, you know. And
Speaker 1: so I cried. And then he hit the game winner again, No,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I did? Then, I like,
Speaker 1: I like yelled so fucking loud because there have been
Speaker 1: a decent amount of people that have not allowed me
Speaker 1: to have this opportunity of of designing a basketball shoot
Speaker 1: you said, so, I will say I definitely felt some
Speaker 1: level of redemption, you know, when that happened. And then
Speaker 1: at the end of it, or right after that, he's
Speaker 1: at the press conference with the shoes on the desk
Speaker 1: and he's getting credit to the shoes, So it couldn't
Speaker 1: have been a more perfect rollout for some stormbik ship
Speaker 1: and then unfortunately it ended it the way it did.
Speaker 1: But you know, even him making that decision to playing
Speaker 1: that game is you know, a testament to him as
Speaker 1: a player. So I'm a Knicks fan, but also my
Speaker 1: career is way more important than you know, Tyr's halburn is.
Speaker 2: It's not going to help you if you're down to
Speaker 2: two much rent there you go, not at all can
Speaker 2: promise you, not at all. I still haven't gotten able
Speaker 2: to get any Knicks tickets from the exactly that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, definitely it was weird. Like I was in Indiana.
Speaker 1: We just did a pop up for the Hallie Mart
Speaker 1: where I'm like doing Pacers trivia with Pacers fans and
Speaker 1: like I.
Speaker 2: Know that, Yeah, that is just.
Speaker 3: That is fire.
Speaker 1: So talk to us about this book past. The book
Speaker 1: is far.
Speaker 2: I mean just the aesthetic, like yeah, yeah, the material
Speaker 2: and everything I make shoes.
Speaker 1: I make shoes published by Rossoli. The front is a
Speaker 1: painting by my buddy delphin Finley.
Speaker 3: Wait hold on, not to cut you off.
Speaker 4: Yes, this the texture thing, and I like how he
Speaker 4: did like a track.
Speaker 1: This is album.
Speaker 2: This is insane, like again a slate attention to detail. Man,
Speaker 2: I love you, Bro, I love it, but I can't
Speaker 2: I can't take all the credit. A design agency named
Speaker 2: play Lab, or called play Lab look at this. They
Speaker 2: designed the book, so credit to them. Delphin Finley painted
Speaker 2: the cover. I think I'm one of the first, the
Speaker 2: first non rappers to get an Andre future. We got
Speaker 2: an Andre feature in that book, which.
Speaker 4: Was gonna be my last question before we got out
Speaker 4: of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So Andre and I have sparked a friendship.
Speaker 1: We hike often, and I've just found on these hikes,
Speaker 1: like with him and a lot of other people, I
Speaker 1: have a lot of great conversations. Yeah. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's because you're like isolated, common goal nature, but
Speaker 1: we've had many. And when I was doing this book,
Speaker 1: I was like, Bro, is there anyway we could like
Speaker 1: record one of them, transcribe it and put it in
Speaker 1: the book. So that's what that is. There's a good
Speaker 1: six or seven pages of just oh wait, go back,
Speaker 1: go back. You're right there. The small right there that
Speaker 1: is there, you go back. That is myself. O. J. Simpson,
Speaker 1: Nicole Brown Simpson and the Ninja Turtles. Yes, and my
Speaker 1: dad took that photo. Yes, And that's history right there.
Speaker 4: This should have been this should have been the cover.
Speaker 4: Can I use this photo as my next single? That's
Speaker 4: the wildest photo I've ever seen this. All right, So
Speaker 4: where was this at when you saw OJ? So?
Speaker 1: My dad's a photographer, and I think he had to.
Speaker 1: I think I think OJ was doing something with the
Speaker 1: Ninja Turtles and I was I wanted to come because
Speaker 1: I wassy like to meet the Ninja Turtles. I don't
Speaker 1: even know, I didn't know who O J was. Total
Speaker 1: I'm wearing I'm wearing like a Ninja Turtles like jumpsuit.
Speaker 1: That rat costume is crazy. And then and then actually
Speaker 1: that next page right there, that is a letter from
Speaker 1: SHK Wes, like good like eight years ago before he
Speaker 1: was like shack Wes and it's hilarious, so you obviously
Speaker 1: don't need to read it now, but it's a really
Speaker 1: good letter. And he starts it with this is a
Speaker 1: piece of art, and that when I read it at
Speaker 1: the time, I thought he was crazy. But reading it
Speaker 1: and going back now like it actually is a piece
Speaker 1: of art.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, this is this, This this book is incredible. Man,
Speaker 2: I can't wait to really get into it and think
Speaker 2: you read it and he had attention to this is fire, Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is this is dope.
Speaker 4: With some of those hikes, obviously a lot of you know,
Speaker 4: those conversations with Andre three thousand on those hikes would
Speaker 4: be private and personal outside of the one in the book.
Speaker 4: Is there anything that you can share of just what
Speaker 4: that relationship.
Speaker 1: Has been, Like, I think one of the most powerful
Speaker 1: things that I've witnessed with him is just like that
Speaker 1: he's really human and just some of the vulnerability that
Speaker 1: he's displayed was kind of refreshing, because you think some
Speaker 1: of these people that are living at such a high
Speaker 1: level are like these godlike creatures. But with some of
Speaker 1: our hikes, it was around the time of like right
Speaker 1: before his flute album, and just some of the things
Speaker 1: he expressed about being uncertain about making certain decisions or
Speaker 1: even releasing a flute album was really empowering because myself,
Speaker 1: at whatever level I'm at, I have so many insecurities
Speaker 1: and vulnerabilities and imposter syndromes. But you look at all
Speaker 1: the people that we like worship and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: they just they off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they must be so sure of everything.
Speaker 1: Right and so just to kind of like witness that.
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty powerful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was dope.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: There's been a running joke on this podcast. Well not
Speaker 4: even a running joke, it's been a fact everyone has
Speaker 4: met Andre three thousand except you in Soho and I
Speaker 4: remember after that joke started. It must have been the
Speaker 4: first week I saw he was in your studio, your
Speaker 4: crib flute, and I was like, everybody, he doesn't want
Speaker 4: to be to l A.
Speaker 1: That's that's where he's where you be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've read some articles Venice, he's like full time
Speaker 4: or I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say something that he
Speaker 4: didn't put in whatever. The only piece he did after
Speaker 4: the Flute album talked about how he met even some
Speaker 4: of the band members of that they all went to
Speaker 4: the same grocery store in Venice, and that he was
Speaker 4: living in Venice and that's how the whole yeah sh
Speaker 4: had came together.
Speaker 1: Your book available, wins. It is available now. You can
Speaker 1: go to any retailer that has Resoli Books or Amazon
Speaker 1: or Barnes and Noble. Go get this man, Yeah, go
Speaker 1: get it. Support me.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Sponge available Sponge available also now on beasponge dot com.
Speaker 1: And uh, we were just at Kiss and we're about
Speaker 1: to be a complex con Oh yeah, I should probably
Speaker 1: plug that. Gonna have a booth, a complex count of
Speaker 1: sponge booth. There will also be a Salahi Museum of
Speaker 1: just past samples and projects that I've worked on. And
Speaker 1: this is uh, maybe you could consider it like the
Speaker 1: doorway to this brand of my beat your launch as
Speaker 1: well as the book.
Speaker 2: Love before You Go, And he plans for a brick
Speaker 2: and mortar in New York City. I think any brand
Speaker 2: that has a brick and mortar first needs to have
Speaker 2: success digitally, so that is right now the goal and
Speaker 2: then for the first store, if it were up to me,
Speaker 2: I'd actually probably be in Japan.
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm a New Yorker. I said that five times
Speaker 1: before anyone.
Speaker 2: But if you got that, you got that aesthetic the
Speaker 2: old Japanese god actually like that. Yeah, Japanese fashion inspires
Speaker 2: me because I definitely, because I think in America is everywhere.
Speaker 2: If you look in America, there's so many rules about
Speaker 2: like what you can wear at what age, and where
Speaker 2: you can wear and where you can wear it. But
Speaker 2: then in Japan, like you'll see like a six year
Speaker 2: l seven year old dude in like full camo and
Speaker 2: some Jordan's and he's like being taken very seriously.
Speaker 1: And you know what I mean, you know, so I
Speaker 1: just that inspires me. So now it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: where told that like maybe someone of a certain age
Speaker 1: can't wear like yeah, I feel like it's like that's
Speaker 1: only our cultural exactly. He only did exactly exactly, and
Speaker 1: it's something wrong. There's something fundamentally wrong with that. Sola.
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming through man, appreciate it. The book
Speaker 2: is fire. I can't wait to really get into it
Speaker 2: and read it and just and just you know, read
Speaker 2: more your story. Congratulations on everything that you.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Support you here.
Speaker 2: I'm saying it now before we signed off. He will
Speaker 2: be designing the first new roorial Mall sneaker.
Speaker 1: It's a fact.
Speaker 2: We're going to make it happen. I'm going to keep
Speaker 2: harassing until we make that happen.
Speaker 1: Can we get a shoulder roll? Can we get these
Speaker 1: numbers up? Get a shoulder roll for him? We are not.
Speaker 4: Shout out to all the nokes. I retired my shoulders.
Speaker 4: I think in twenty twelve time even like, yeah, I
Speaker 4: don't even know how to work.
Speaker 1: I'm here the back of where the ship.
Speaker 4: You gotta put oil in them SHIPLEI thank you, my brother.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you. Appreciate you. That's Slay appreciate you, Bro.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you, Bro. Man Oh, Wollie and Mound