WEBVTT - The Warrens: Paranormal Power Couple

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and this is stuff you should know. We're into

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty six. Now, Chuck, where do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 2>How you feel.

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<v Speaker 1>I have high hopes for this year?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, do I really? I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you should. Okay, we should have high hopes

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<v Speaker 2>for every year and we can be let down, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>but no, you could still have high hopes.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I have my cynical hat on. So that

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<v Speaker 1>was a bad time to ask me that question because

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren. As Julia said,

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<v Speaker 1>who titled this one? I'm using this title even it's

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<v Speaker 1>great a paranormal power couple that you might know if

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<v Speaker 1>you've ever seen movies like the Ammadeville Horror. So we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about them in that episode for sure, or the

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<v Speaker 1>Conjuring Yeah, or was it the Haunting in Connecticut? Yep

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<v Speaker 1>was another one. M h. They made a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money scamming people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's really no well, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say, there's no other way to put it. Plenty

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<v Speaker 2>of people on the internet put it differently, they were

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<v Speaker 2>the real deal, legit Ghostbusters demon Hunters. It just if

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<v Speaker 2>you add up all the evidence in your incredulous and

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<v Speaker 2>skeptical you probably not only suspect the Warrens were frauds,

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<v Speaker 2>but you might actually have a little disdain for him.

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<v Speaker 2>I say, we kind of present both sides, even though

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's pretty clear where we land. Maybe.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, have you seen Kpop Demon Hunters? No? Is it?

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<v Speaker 2>Kid?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I figured you guys would have seen that. I

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<v Speaker 1>figured you and you would be into that.

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<v Speaker 2>What is is it on Netflix? Because we don't have

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<v Speaker 2>that anymore?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? It's Netflix original?

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<v Speaker 2>So okay, No, although they did show it.

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<v Speaker 1>In theaters, had sing alongs in the theaters and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh cute. I gotta see that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just didn't know if it's a legit sensation.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny that we I don't know what we were

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<v Speaker 2>talking about, but the Conjuring came up not too long ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and you said you hadn't seen it. Have you still

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<v Speaker 2>not seen it?

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<v Speaker 1>Since last week? I have not seen the Conjuring?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember how it came up?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I think we were talking about the Raggedy

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<v Speaker 1>end All.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, and a Doll's up great memory. So okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I still say the conjuring up the first one is

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<v Speaker 2>a legendary, classic, great ghost horror horror movie. It's just fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>So nothing changed since last week.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but it could have because learning more and more

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<v Speaker 2>about the actual backstory behind it and just how exploitive

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<v Speaker 2>it was and how historically bent it is. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 2>could have. It could have really affected how I view it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I decided not to.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you can separate art from the rag doll for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't, and I'm going to, by god, let's do

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<v Speaker 2>that right now.

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<v Speaker 1>All right? So Ed Lorraine Warren they founded in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>fifty two of the New England Society for Psychic Research

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<v Speaker 1>in Connecticut. Ed said, you know, self described demonologists, Lorraine

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<v Speaker 1>self describe clairvoyant and trance medium. And they formed that

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<v Speaker 1>in Connecticut because they were both from Connecticut and looking

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<v Speaker 1>at their list of greatest hits, did a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>ghostbusting in Connecticut.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the things you can credit them for

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<v Speaker 2>is they made the idea of like ghost hunting mainstream

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<v Speaker 2>all of the terrible, yeah, terrible TV shows that are

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<v Speaker 2>around today. All ohe their existence to the Warrens. Essentially,

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<v Speaker 2>there were ghost hunters and psychical research societies and everything

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<v Speaker 2>around before them, but they were so huge into publicity

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<v Speaker 2>and getting their stories out there that they kind of

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<v Speaker 2>put it on the map as far as as far

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<v Speaker 2>as at least America is concerned.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. So credit or scorn, they were the ogs.

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<v Speaker 1>Ed was I guess Warren was his middle name because

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<v Speaker 1>he was born Ed Warren Mainey in nineteen twenty six

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<v Speaker 1>in Bridgeport. He says that he grew up in a

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<v Speaker 1>haunted house, so that's where he got his first jones

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<v Speaker 1>for this kind of work. And his wife was born

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<v Speaker 1>Lorraine Moran Moran I think Moran Moran later Warren obviously

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen twenty seven, just a few months later, also

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<v Speaker 1>in Bridgeport. Grew up very very Catholic and met and

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<v Speaker 1>that'll play a part in their careers because it all

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<v Speaker 1>had a Catholic vant and they met as teenagers, got

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<v Speaker 1>married nineteen forty five when Ed was on leave from

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<v Speaker 1>the Navy serving the World War Two, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>had a little girl, Judy, and Ed went to art

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<v Speaker 1>school and ironically that's where they got their start ghostbusting

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<v Speaker 1>because they were traveling around selling hawking his wares as

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<v Speaker 1>an artist, and they said, well, while we're here, we

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<v Speaker 1>might as well do some paranormal investigation, because that's what you.

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<v Speaker 2>Do, right, And if you are familiar at all with

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<v Speaker 2>the Conjuring series, you're like already know all this. And

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<v Speaker 2>that was because the largest horror franchise in history, the

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<v Speaker 2>Conjuring Series, is based on the Warrens files, the books

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<v Speaker 2>they wrote, the interviews they gave, the TV shows that

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<v Speaker 2>they consulted on. If you put it all together, all

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<v Speaker 2>of the Conjuring movies that started in twenty thirteen have

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<v Speaker 2>grossed at least two point three billion dollars, all based

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<v Speaker 2>on the malarkey that the Warrants came up with from

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<v Speaker 2>the fifties to the I guess I think it really

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<v Speaker 2>kind of tapered off in like the nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's kind of crazy to think, right,

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<v Speaker 1>this just sort of average couple from Connecticut who were

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<v Speaker 1>doing their thing, Like I don't think anyone. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they certainly saw dollar signs, but nothing like that.

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<v Speaker 2>No, we have to say they never charged a dime

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<v Speaker 2>from anybody in need that they were helping. They didn't

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<v Speaker 2>make their money that way. They made their money through lectures,

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<v Speaker 2>through selling their stories other people's stories. Frankly, they had

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<v Speaker 2>a museum that they charged money to come in and see,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, entry, but they never charged the people that

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<v Speaker 2>they were helping, which I think is definitely worth pointing out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they didn't show up and say what do you got?

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<v Speaker 1>You got a demon and you got a ghost. That's

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<v Speaker 1>let me see carry the one. We can get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of that thing for five grand.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's get into this. They I said, it was,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of very Catholic. Their encounters were very

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<v Speaker 1>much steeped in Catholic dogma. We're talking. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>I say, it's right out of a horror movie, because

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<v Speaker 1>it literally was. People would speak in different languages. Supposedly,

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<v Speaker 1>they were alleged like hoof prints appearing in the snow,

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<v Speaker 1>levitating beds, levitating kids, foul smells, exorcisms, furniture. You know

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<v Speaker 1>that burnter is moving all over the place by itself.

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<v Speaker 1>Doors are shutting without any wind blowing, right, just shutting

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<v Speaker 1>for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this is a fifty something year career.

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<v Speaker 2>They founded the New England Society for Psychic Research in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty two. So they've been doing this for quite

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<v Speaker 2>a while, but they're they're all time. Huge cases didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really start to pick up until this seventies. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the first one that people point to is like the

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<v Speaker 2>first big deal case was actually became the basis for

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<v Speaker 2>that first conjuring movie. It was the paren Family Haunting

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<v Speaker 2>with Carolyn and Roger Parrin and they had five daughters,

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<v Speaker 2>and they moved into a house in Rhode Island, an

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<v Speaker 2>old farmhouse that was built in the seventeen fifties I

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<v Speaker 2>think maybe sixteen sixty seven round Top Road. It was

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<v Speaker 2>also known as the Old Arnold Estate, and they moved

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<v Speaker 2>in and they stayed there for ten years. But during

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<v Speaker 2>that ten year time, they had some really hard occurrences.

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<v Speaker 2>According to them.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. That's a great way to say allegedly, because

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<v Speaker 1>I've been thinking about how to mix that up.

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<v Speaker 2>According to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm gonna use that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The children were the first ones to sort of get

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<v Speaker 1>the haunt, and the parents didn't really believe that was

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<v Speaker 1>going on. They told their daughters like, no, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're just being little girls, of course, and you're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>ghosts that aren't there. But the parents soon got on

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<v Speaker 1>board and said, yeah, something's happening here. The beds are levitating.

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<v Speaker 1>There's that awful smell. They did a little self research

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<v Speaker 1>before they called the Warrens and found that there had

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<v Speaker 1>been apparently a lot of really gruesome deaths over the

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<v Speaker 1>history of that home, which is not unusual for a

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<v Speaker 1>super old farmhouse. So that's when they picked up the phone.

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<v Speaker 1>They called the Warrens. I can't imagine what year was this,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy one, Like, how I mean, this is in

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<v Speaker 1>Rhode Island. I guess word just gets around or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>they see a newspaper article or something, because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>before the Internet, it was to me that all these

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<v Speaker 1>people just knew who to call.

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<v Speaker 2>I was wondering that as well. And I think in

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<v Speaker 2>some cases they didn't call. It's just people have written

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<v Speaker 2>that because there's so many cases, and they're so convoluted,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're so just you know, there's so much bs

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<v Speaker 2>around them that people just take total liberties with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not entirely clear who called whom. But let's

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<v Speaker 2>just say they call the Warrens. Right, the Warrens showed up,

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<v Speaker 2>they held a seance, and in the seance Carolyn is

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<v Speaker 2>thrown across the room, but first she starts speaking in tongues.

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<v Speaker 2>I think. Her daughter Andrea later wrote that she was

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<v Speaker 2>speaking in a language that never existed on earth, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>assuming that this was a demon, that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And they traced the whole thing back to the spirit

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<v Speaker 2>of a witch, a dead witch. And we established in

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<v Speaker 2>the bell Witch short stuff that a witch ghost is

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<v Speaker 2>the worst kind of both. And she had lived in

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<v Speaker 2>the house in the early eighteen hundreds. Not only was

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<v Speaker 2>she a witch, she was a child murderer. She had

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<v Speaker 2>murdered an infant with a knitting needle, and so they

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<v Speaker 2>had the seance. Carolyn gets thrown against the wall. Nothing changes,

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<v Speaker 2>nothing solid, and the Warrens are like, see you, thanks

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<v Speaker 2>for the story. You know, when the Warrens left, the

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<v Speaker 2>haunting hadn't ended, but the Pirons stuck it out. Her

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<v Speaker 2>parents stuck it out for ten years total, and then

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<v Speaker 2>when they moved out, the haunting stopped.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, And you know what we're gonna do here.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna go over some of their greatest hits as

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<v Speaker 1>told by the Warrens and others, and then maybe we'll

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<v Speaker 1>come back later and sort.

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<v Speaker 2>Of pick them up part a bit, maybe if we

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<v Speaker 2>feel like the.

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<v Speaker 1>Next one, of course, is Annabelle. We talked a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about the Doll and the Dolls episode. This is

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<v Speaker 1>the early seventies in Hartford, Connecticut, when a nurse got

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<v Speaker 1>a raggedy and doll as a gift, and the doll

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<v Speaker 1>came to life started doing some cute things like Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll leave a little note for the nurse, and or

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be you're gonna put me down in this chair,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm going to really go over in this room

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<v Speaker 1>just so you know that I'm fully animated and alive.

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<v Speaker 2>Like alf on the shelf kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. And the nurse was like, all right, this

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<v Speaker 1>is fine because I think this doll was haunted by

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<v Speaker 1>a little girl who died in the house named Annabel Higgins,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I kind of feel bad because it's just

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<v Speaker 1>a little girl ghosts. But eventually her friend, she had

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<v Speaker 1>a friend that was physically attacked by unseen forces. I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>you know via Annabelle the Doll and ed. Lorraine says,

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<v Speaker 1>we're called in, but I wouldn't be surprised if they

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<v Speaker 1>weren't minding the news and making some calls themselves, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, for sure, that would be my guest. Because

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<v Speaker 2>this is an era, the seventies. Man, you could call

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<v Speaker 2>a newspaper and be like, I've got a haunted doll,

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<v Speaker 2>my house is haunted, there's a ghost switch, and a

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<v Speaker 2>newspaper reporter would show up and write a story about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, totally.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So yes, these stories did pop up the newspaper,

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.240
<v Speaker 2>and I'm quite sure that the Warrens were reading papers

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 2>for this one way or another. They showed up and

0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.560
<v Speaker 2>they determined, no, this is not the ghost of a

0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.360
<v Speaker 2>little girl named Annabel Higgins. This is a demon hanging

0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 2>around a doll pretending to be Annabel Higgins in order

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 2>to get close enough to Donna, the nurse whose doll

0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.439
<v Speaker 2>it is, so that she can possess her soul. And

0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.320
<v Speaker 2>that was the story that they told. What do you

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:27.440
<v Speaker 2>do when you got a demon?

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Chuck? You bringing an exorcist. And that's what they did.

0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 1>And this is my favorite part of this whole article

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.439
<v Speaker 1>is this sentence. It's unclear if it was successful, since

0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.480
<v Speaker 1>the doll continued to cause problems. Yeah, yeah, I'd say

0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 1>that didn't work then. And the Warren said, all right,

0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 1>we'll just we'll take that doll since the doll's not

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the problem, and one day we shall make a lot

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 1>of money from this doll.

0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they put it in their museum under glass, and

0:12:54.480 --> 0:13:00.319
<v Speaker 2>apparently they said a prayer of containment to keep the

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>the doll and its attendant demon behind the class.

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 1>And I think it's worked because you know what, Apparently

0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 1>that doll just sits there behind the.

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Glass, yeah, staring. But they said that the last people

0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 2>who mocked at somebody who was visiting the museum died

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.959
<v Speaker 2>in a motorcycle crash right afterwards. So do you want

0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>to move on to the Lutzes, because I love the

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Lutzes and what they did, and said.

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean this. We did a whole episode on this,

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 1>so I don't think we have to get super detailed.

0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 1>But the Lutzes were the Amityville horror family. There at

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.439
<v Speaker 1>one twelve Ocean Avenue in Amityville, New York. This is

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 1>in the mid nineteen seventies, and a real tragedy happened

0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.280
<v Speaker 1>here in nineteen seventy four at about three o'clock in

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.079
<v Speaker 1>the morning when the guy who lived there, Ronald de Feo,

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Junior killed his whole family as parents is, four younger siblings.

0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:00.080
<v Speaker 1>He killed them all as they slept by gunfire. And

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>then a year later the Lutz family moves in, and

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.800
<v Speaker 1>they don't make it ten years. They make it about

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 1>a month before they realized that mortgage was way too much.

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, exactly. They said that. Afterward, they went to

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the press and said that they had experienced terrible odors.

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Both George and Kathy, the parents had been possessed dish

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe light, possessed that their daughter had made a friend

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.400
<v Speaker 2>named Jody with red eyes, who is actually some sort

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 2>of pig ghost demon that no one else could see,

0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.600
<v Speaker 2>although I think somebody caught sight of it. Fly swarmed

0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 2>out of nowhere and almost made Rod Steiger throw up. Yeah,

0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>this one's the creepiest. I love it the most. Hoof

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 2>prints came out of nowhere in the snow outside of

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the house, and you know it has hoof prints.

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>And walks upright, talented goat.

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 2>A talented goat, a pig ghost demon or Satan himself.

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 1>That's right. So the warrens are are there. I'm going

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 1>to just stop saying called in. They just appear out

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>of the ether. They do their investigation, and they said

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 1>that they at first confirmed the presence of a child ghost,

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>but then did a little more digging and said, actually,

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 1>this is not a haunted house. Everyone and then Letzes went, oh,

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>thank god, and they said, this is haunted land. The

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.800
<v Speaker 1>very land under this house is evil. It was built

0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>on Native American cemetery where they had some dark rituals

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 1>in the past, and this is what led Ronald de

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Fayo to kill his whole family. So sorry to be

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 1>the bear of bad tidings, but you guys are in

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 1>bad trouble.

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. This is a one time seance that they held

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>where they found all this stuff out and they actually

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 2>one of the most famous photos of a ghost ever produced.

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 2>It's called the ghost Boy photo from the Amityville House,

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.920
<v Speaker 2>came out of this investigation, this one night investigation the

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Warrens had. You've never seen the ghost Boy photo from Amityville.

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Go type that in and check it out. It is

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a creepy, really great, creepy, unsettling photo, especially if you

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 2>compare it to John Defao. I think he was the

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.400
<v Speaker 2>youngest brother of the Dafeo's who were murdered by their

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the oldest brother. It looks an awful lot like him.

0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of people are like, there you go.

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.680
<v Speaker 2>The Warrens had it figured out. There's a ghost, there's

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Indian burial ground is now a trope thanks to them,

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 2>and we can thank them for poultry Geist as a result.

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 1>That's right, I say we take a break, yeah, yeah,

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.320
<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk about three more of their more famous

0:16:38.560 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 1>investigations right after this. This is fun, all right, we're back.

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.359
<v Speaker 1>I guess it's not too far past Halloween, so in

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 1>our minds, you know, it's not early January, so we're

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.160
<v Speaker 1>sort of in that spooky mood. So this is sitting

0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.440
<v Speaker 1>quite well with us. But we need to talk about

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 1>the Infield haunting, because this is not in Connecticut, my friends.

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.480
<v Speaker 1>This is in London, England, in nineteen seventy seven, and

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Infield is a suburb of London and at the time

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:34.880
<v Speaker 1>one Peggy Hodgson and her daughters were what were they?

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 1>They were terrorized by unseen forces just like the rest.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 1>They move into this place, banging sounds coming from the

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>daughter's room. Peggy bursts in and sees this dresser creeping

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.680
<v Speaker 1>across the floor by itself, seemingly going toward the door.

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.600
<v Speaker 1>To block it, and Peggy was like, I got to

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.159
<v Speaker 1>get that dresser. It's out of control. But by the

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 1>time she got to it, it was like it was glued.

0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:58.880
<v Speaker 1>She couldn't even move this thing.

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.600
<v Speaker 2>No, this is the basis for The Conjuring two. Also

0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>a truly great ghost movie, especially for a sequel.

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>And is this London?

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's based on this. This is

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a very famous case that was also investigated by the

0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Society for Psychical Research, which was founded all the way

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 2>back in eighteen eighty two, seventy years before the Warrens

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:26.959
<v Speaker 2>founded their society. But they showed up because the Hodgson's,

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 2>or i should say Peggy Hodgson, couldn't get any help

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.679
<v Speaker 2>from the police and she had basically reached the end

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 2>of her rope because one of her daughter's Janet I

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 2>think the youngest daughter was started falling into trances and

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 2>apparently was possessed by a ghost named Bill Wilkins, who

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.439
<v Speaker 2>said that he had died in that same house, actually

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>in a chair in the corner, and that he wanted

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.680
<v Speaker 2>everybody out because this was his house. And if you

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 2>see that movie, it's really well done and super creepy.

0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Have you seen all those movies.

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.840
<v Speaker 2>I have seen those two. Oh okay, the extent of it.

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 1>How many are there? Good? God, I mean things are

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 1>they conjured?

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 2>So with the conjured, I think they're up to four

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 2>maybe okay, But then there's a whole other like subfranchise

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.280
<v Speaker 2>with the Evil Nun. I think I've seen one of those.

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.160
<v Speaker 1>It's been off and stuff.

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.440
<v Speaker 2>And then the Annabelle stuff too, But I've only seen

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>the first two conjurings, and they're good. They're good movies.

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.240
<v Speaker 2>They're hokey in a lot of ways. But yeah, as

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:29.399
<v Speaker 2>far like a good, decent, even mediocre ghost movie is

0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.159
<v Speaker 2>so few and far between. There's so many terrible ones that, like,

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'll take whatever decent table scraps can be.

0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Trust at me.

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hear you, Okay, I'll check it out. So,

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 1>like you said, the Society for Psychical Research, is that right? Cycical? Yeah,

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>they come in. They're competitors of the Warren of course

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.639
<v Speaker 1>over there, I guess, and they observed, you know, all

0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>the stuff they were talking about, like things levitating, furniture

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>moving of course, fires erupting out of nowhere, apparently, cups

0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.679
<v Speaker 1>just filling up with water when there is no water around. Supposedly,

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 1>one of the researchers had a curtain that was slowly

0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:13.720
<v Speaker 1>creeping around his neck as if to choke him.

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a skeptical society that believes in the

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 2>possibility of ghosts and poulsitery guys and stuff. But they're

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.400
<v Speaker 2>not just credulous thing dongs.

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh that society, what are they? The psycho society are Yeah, okay, yeah,

0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 1>all right, well that's good. Ed and Lorraine maybe investigated,

0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe didn't. This is where it gets a little dodgy,

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to talk about that in act three.

0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>But at any rate, in nineteen seventy eight, they said,

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 1>you got a polter, guys, that's what the deal is.

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.760
<v Speaker 1>And you know New Line Cinema. You want to buy

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:48.199
<v Speaker 1>this story, we'll sell it to you.

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they did. There was a really cool documentary

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.159
<v Speaker 2>I saw where the so the spr made tons of

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 2>audio tapes, real the real audio tapes of this, and

0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.840
<v Speaker 2>somebody made a docu I guess a docudrama or whatever

0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.479
<v Speaker 2>where they used the tapes as all of the audio

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 2>and then they hired actors to act out the stuff

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and the dialogue was the tape. So these people had

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.920
<v Speaker 2>to lip sync with the tapes, and it was all

0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.000
<v Speaker 2>done in period costumes and all that stuff from the seventies.

0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 2>It's really good. I can't remember the name of it,

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.600
<v Speaker 2>but I'm pretty sure that's the only the only documentary

0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.479
<v Speaker 2>to attempt that. So if you can find that, watch it.

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Did you ever watch that Zoom Call horror movie that

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I recommended?

0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:29.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was pretty decent.

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not bad, huh. Yeah.

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I was really uncomfortable when they started making light of

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 2>it in front of the psychic medium. That was the

0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 2>thing that got me the most.

0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 1>It was, oh yeah, you know, yeah, plus you know

0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 1>that they're going to get it, you know, even worse

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>because of that. What was it called, I think it

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:48.639
<v Speaker 1>was called host I thought it was very well done,

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, pretty clever COVID movie when you know they

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 1>were shooting stuff in a as creatively as they could

0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:55.680
<v Speaker 1>because of the restrictions.

0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was a good movie.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:21:59.679
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's move on. We got a couple of

0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 1>more here, the case of Arnie Johnson, also in Connecticut,

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.520
<v Speaker 1>very conveniently located in Brookfield. This was in nineteen eighty one,

0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.359
<v Speaker 1>and this one is interesting because there was a nineteen

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 1>year old named Arnie Johnson who stabbed his landlord Alan

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Bono or Bono twenty times. And in his trial he says,

0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not guilty, and they said temporary insanity and they

0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>said no, no, no demonic possession. In the court went,

0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>oh boy, here we go.

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I think this is the first time anyone ever tried that.

0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 2>The reason he said that is because he said, I

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.680
<v Speaker 2>really am possessed by a demon. My fiance, Debbie, her

0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:41.280
<v Speaker 2>little brother David, has been possessed by a demon for

0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 2>a while, and we had an exorcism. And during the exorcism,

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.160
<v Speaker 2>to help David out, I dared the demon to inhabit

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.120
<v Speaker 2>me instead. Well he did, and when I got into

0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 2>that argument with the landlord, that demon is the one

0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>who really stabbed him, not me. Was defense. But I

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 2>think the Warrens showed up before all of this, before

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the stabbing even and they took a look at David

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>and ed looks a little David up and down. It's like, yeah,

0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you still got demons attached to you. You still got

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.520
<v Speaker 2>forty three demons, that's.

0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, he counted them. That's why they had that exorcism.

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Is the Warrens came in and said because Initially they

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 1>thought it was a ghost, you know, yeah, and they

0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, the the Glatzels who that was Debbie's last name,

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.360
<v Speaker 1>the girlfriend they brought in clergy from the Catholic church

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.360
<v Speaker 1>to bless young David. That didn't work. So that's when

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the Warrens show up and they're like, no, it's demonic,

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.879
<v Speaker 1>it's not a ghost, and you need that exorcism. And

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.880
<v Speaker 1>during that exorcism is when Arnie Johnson's like, oh, yeah,

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 1>come into me, I dare you right?

0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.320
<v Speaker 2>And then the murder happens and they guy ends up

0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 2>in trial Arnie Johnson. I think he went by Cheyenne

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 2>his middle name, and so the judge is like, I'm

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.359
<v Speaker 2>not even going to accept that as a defense. What

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:58.320
<v Speaker 2>else you got? And they're like self defense And they

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 2>tried them on self defense and you got five years

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 2>in prison for manslaughter. So I guess they believe that

0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.520
<v Speaker 2>to an extent. That's not the end of that case.

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.680
<v Speaker 2>But that's a huge legendary case too. And then there

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.160
<v Speaker 2>was also there was a movie called The Haunting in Connecticut.

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.560
<v Speaker 2>It's awful and it was made kind of outside of

0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the Warren's purview, but this was a case that's largely

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 2>associated with them. That involved the Sneteker family.

0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:33.360
<v Speaker 1>That's right. That was also very conveniently located in Southington, Connecticut,

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 1>right there on Meriden Avenue. And this is a case

0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:41.360
<v Speaker 1>where two people at Carmen Reed and Alan Snedeker, they

0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:43.520
<v Speaker 1>got their kids, had four of them, and a niece.

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.280
<v Speaker 1>They brought them there to live because their son Philip

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.480
<v Speaker 1>needed nearby medical care, kind of long term medical care,

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.200
<v Speaker 1>and it made it more convenient, so they moved in there.

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>They move in and of course things start going down. Philip,

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>who was the young six son, start seeing a threatening

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>young man with long dark hair who would just repeat

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 1>his name over and over. And then Carmen, I believe

0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 1>was the mom, was in the basement and she was like,

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.119
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute. There are toe tags and there's embalming

0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 1>equipment here and photos of dead people. I wonder what

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:21.919
<v Speaker 1>this house used to be, and everyone said, duh, it

0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:23.120
<v Speaker 1>was a funeral home.

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Hallahan funeral home for decades, I think, pretty

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:31.800
<v Speaker 2>much right before it became a home for rent. And

0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 2>it turned out that Philip's room was once the display

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:38.720
<v Speaker 2>room for caskets when they sold you the caskets, you know,

0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 2>they have like half caskets on the wall, that kind

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:44.400
<v Speaker 2>of thing. This is where Philip was sleeping. The embalming

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 2>room was just down the hall. The thing is Philip

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:53.160
<v Speaker 2>needing this constant care of treatments for Hodgkins lymphoma type

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 2>of cancer. They couldn't move, they couldn't leave the house,

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 2>so they had to kind of stick it out, and

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:02.760
<v Speaker 2>things just kept getting worse worse. Finally, Phillips started to

0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 2>change and became very violent and was I think forced

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:12.320
<v Speaker 2>forcibly taken to a mental hospital for observation and stayed

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 2>there for a couple of months. I think it was

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 2>finally diagnosed with schizophrenia. He moved out, he avoided the

0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:24.480
<v Speaker 2>house again, and I don't remember if the haunting continued

0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>or not. But one of the big things that came

0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 2>out of this was an appearance and Sally Jesse Raphael.

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:33.919
<v Speaker 2>The title of the episode is I was Raped by

0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>a Ghost because Carmen said that she was repeatedly raped

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.880
<v Speaker 2>by a ghost and the niece was fondled by a ghost.

0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 2>And the Warrens also show up on that episode, and

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you can find it online. It's a Sally Esse Raphael

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 2>episode for sure.

0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:51.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you sent that to me, and I did my

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 1>best to script through and hit the highs. Right, shall

0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:58.320
<v Speaker 1>we take a break, Yeah, let's take a break, all right,

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 1>We'll take a break and kind of up up with

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>what's going on with the Warrens in all these cases

0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 1>right after this. M M.

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, chuck. So one of the things that gives

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:35.040
<v Speaker 2>the Warrens casework, I guess, credence in any quarter is

0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:38.679
<v Speaker 2>that this is all based on some kernel of truth.

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 2>Like Ronald Fayo did kill him his family in the

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Amityville house. That definitely happened before the Lutz has moved

0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 2>in the house in that the Snetecker's rented was the

0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.399
<v Speaker 2>Hallahan funeral home before they showed up there, and there

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 2>were like embalming tools still there left over. It turns

0:27:59.880 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 2>out that a man name named Bill Wilkins did die

0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 2>in that house in Enfield in London, just exactly at

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the time that young Janet, who was apparently possessed by him,

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.720
<v Speaker 2>said that he had died in the same place that

0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>she said he had died too. So there's like all

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 2>of this these different things that are just factual enough

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to kind of provide a basis that can then be

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of filled in with some fat, maybe a little

0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 2>muscle and sinew to make a full blown, like you know,

0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:33.880
<v Speaker 2>haunting story.

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you know the Warrens, if you asked them

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 1>back then, they would say, hey, we kept a lot

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:40.720
<v Speaker 1>of this evidence. They called it heart quote hard evidence

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 1>in different you know, artifacts and things. A lot of

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 1>this stuff was kept in the museum you know that

0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:48.120
<v Speaker 1>they had at their house that they you could, you know,

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:50.880
<v Speaker 1>pay to go into and look over the stuff. Some

0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:52.960
<v Speaker 1>of it was made public, some of it they held back,

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:54.959
<v Speaker 1>you know, they said some of the juiciest stuff they

0:28:54.960 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 1>couldn't even show. Of course, and in nineteen ninety seven

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.200
<v Speaker 1>and finally the New England Skeptical Society said all right,

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 1>let's uh, let's get together, let's talk this out. Let's

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 1>look at this evidence that you've got. They brought out

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 1>that Ghostboy photo. Of course, they had audio recordings that

0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 1>had these you know, strange sort of non languages or

0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 1>other worldly voices. That was the one I think in

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Infield with Bill Wilkins like. They trotted that out and

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>played it. They had that Annabel doll. She shook that

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>doll and said, look what do you call this? H

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:29.760
<v Speaker 1>She didn't shake it, of course, because it was stored

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 1>under glass, right. And then they had you know, witnesses

0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>and personal accounts from people that you know, testified not

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 1>in court obviously, but that all this stuff was you know,

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:41.520
<v Speaker 1>very real to them.

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so these scientists evaluated all of their evidence

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 2>and their means and methods and motives, and they decided

0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>that it's all blarnie.

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>They said, yes, their quote by the way, yeah Barney.

0:29:54.000 --> 0:29:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't really say blarney very often. I say malarkey,

0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I guess because I did at the beginning, but this

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 2>was I guess it was based on that quote. They

0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 2>said they're not doing good scientific investigation, which I think

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>is generous to even assume that they're doing any scientific investigation,

0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 2>and that there's like they come along, they say it's

0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 2>a demon, and then everything that they kind of all

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the evidence they gather supports that hypothesis rather than gathering

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.360
<v Speaker 2>evidence and then coming up with a hypothesis from it.

0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:29.160
<v Speaker 2>And they basically were like, none of this stuff is falsifiable, testable, Like, yes,

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.720
<v Speaker 2>there's a doll right there that they say is haunted,

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:36.560
<v Speaker 2>that's not evidence, right. Yeah, So they just basically said

0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:39.200
<v Speaker 2>that it's all. They're just total frauds. And if you

0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:42.240
<v Speaker 2>look at the history of the Warrens, this is not

0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:43.880
<v Speaker 2>the first time that happened to him, It was not

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the last time that happened to them. They just rolled

0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 2>with it. It never slowed them down. They never seemed

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to freak out whenever they were called frauds or hucksters

0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 2>or grifters, like they just either just shook it off

0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.520
<v Speaker 2>or they had some sort of response like Lorraine Warren

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.120
<v Speaker 2>had in response to that New England Skeptical Society nineteen

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>ninety seven study.

0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she said, they don't base anything on a God.

0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, So if you don't bring God into it and

0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the idea that they're Roman Catholic god warriors fighting right

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:23.479
<v Speaker 2>evil incarnate on Earth helping families for free, then of

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 2>course it's not going to make any sense to you egghead,

0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:27.680
<v Speaker 2>pencilneck college boy scientists.

0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you know, one of the biggest criticisms of

0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:34.840
<v Speaker 1>their work and other work by other paranormal investigators because

0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of these people use pretty questionable

0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 1>techniques at times. So it's not like the Warrens were

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.240
<v Speaker 1>any worse than a lot of them. But the fact

0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 1>that a lot of times you can trace this back

0:31:47.920 --> 0:31:51.120
<v Speaker 1>to maybe somebody in that household has some sort of

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:54.960
<v Speaker 1>mental illness going on and they're being exploited.

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the thing. Like you can be like, well,

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.480
<v Speaker 2>it's all in just in good fun, but there are

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 2>actual problems with what they were doing, and that's one

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 2>of them. And even if they weren't mentally ill, some

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 2>of these families did believe that there was something going

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:13.560
<v Speaker 2>on and they were in some sort of crisis, and

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 2>the Warrens would come in tell them they had some demons,

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe give it a shot, maybe solve things or not,

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 2>and then go off and sell the family's story as

0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>their own case. Right. That's again how they made a

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:27.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of money was writing books and giving lectures based

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:30.440
<v Speaker 2>on these places where they just show up and then

0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:34.520
<v Speaker 2>take over the story and insert themselves. That's harmful. I

0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:37.600
<v Speaker 2>also saw that you can describe, at least in part,

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 2>the satanic panic that came along in the eighties from

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:43.880
<v Speaker 2>them kind of normalizing the idea that people were out

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 2>there getting possessed by forty three demons, getting raped by ghosts.

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 2>That was a contribution they made. And then also especially

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:58.000
<v Speaker 2>these conjuring stories now if you watch them, Chuck, the

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Lorraine and Ed Warren are portrayed as this couple who

0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:06.080
<v Speaker 2>have arguably the greatest marriage in the history of humans,

0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:09.560
<v Speaker 2>and that they are just steam powered by God and

0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.240
<v Speaker 2>that's what they're doing. They're battling evil here on earth.

0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:13.920
<v Speaker 2>And so I think it kind of whips up like

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:18.600
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of potentially misplaced religious version of patriotism

0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and people who are religious.

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, probably, So you know, we can now talk about

0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:28.080
<v Speaker 1>some sort of maybe the claims against some of these cases.

0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:32.240
<v Speaker 1>One of the claims was that the Warrens actually paid

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Ray Gorton to completely make up the

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Snedtecker haunting. They worked with an author, I mean, which

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 1>is true. His name was Ray Gorton to write a

0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 1>book about that case called In a Dark Place Colon

0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:47.040
<v Speaker 1>the Story of a True Haunting, and Gordon in two

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:51.680
<v Speaker 1>thousand and nine said that book was entirely fiction and

0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.000
<v Speaker 1>there are grifters because I was interviewing this family and

0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 1>the stories didn't match up from person to person, and

0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:01.280
<v Speaker 1>I took it to Ed and he said, quote, they're crazy.

0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 1>All the people who come to us are crazy. That's

0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:05.520
<v Speaker 1>why they come to us. Just use what you can

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:10.000
<v Speaker 1>and make up the rest. Yeah. So that's one Snetecker case.

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:12.320
<v Speaker 2>That's one little piece of evidence. And this guy actually

0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:13.839
<v Speaker 2>wrote the book and was paid by it. I don't,

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:15.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't think that he had much of

0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:19.799
<v Speaker 2>an ax to grind right the Enfield House. It's not

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:25.000
<v Speaker 2>even clear that they investigated at all. The closest anyone's

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:27.640
<v Speaker 2>ever put them to this haunting was one of the

0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Society for Psychical Research Investigators. Guy, I don't know if

0:34:31.239 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 2>it's leon or lyon Playfair, he was one of the

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>lead dudes. He said that that at the very least

0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Ed showed up maybe for an hour or something, was

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:44.000
<v Speaker 2>hanging out outside I guess with them, and it was like,

0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:45.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can make you can make some money

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:47.640
<v Speaker 2>off of this if you want to do some business,

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and I guess Playfair was like I don't, I don't

0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:52.879
<v Speaker 2>do that, and so Ed was like all right, see

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you and took off and then again took the story

0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:59.040
<v Speaker 2>as their own, Like if you watch The Conjuring two,

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:03.359
<v Speaker 2>they are basically the lynchpin to freeing this family from

0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 2>this torment.

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Amy Deville supposedly was a hoax. This all

0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 1>came out. Later in nineteen seventy nine, there was a

0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:15.239
<v Speaker 1>lawsuit and the guy who shot up his family, Ronald Feo.

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 1>His defense lawyer William Webber, said that he and the

0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Lutz family made it all up one night over a

0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:25.320
<v Speaker 1>quote several bottles of wine, and the Lutzes kind of

0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:27.920
<v Speaker 1>came out and said, yeah, that's pretty much what happened,

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and Ed and Lorraine Wore were like, no, that's not

0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>what happened, right.

0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:34.239
<v Speaker 2>I think Lorraine had a quote during this seance. So

0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:37.480
<v Speaker 2>they met George Lutz once when he handed off the

0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:40.359
<v Speaker 2>keys for them to go have a seance. They didn't

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 2>never meet Kathy. They never walked around the house or

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:46.320
<v Speaker 2>worked with them. They had a one night seance where

0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that ghostboy photo was produced, which must have been just

0:35:50.360 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 2>jackpot luck for them because it looks a lot like

0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>John Defayo in the face. But John to Fayo is

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:58.640
<v Speaker 2>also wearing the exact same shirt that an assistant named

0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Paul Bart who was there that night, was wearing. People

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 2>are like, well, he's probably taking a measurement or working

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 2>on equipment, kneeling down, and it just happened that his

0:36:07.600 --> 0:36:11.239
<v Speaker 2>photo was taken. But the idea that they had much,

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 2>if anything, to do with Amityville is incorrect, except for

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.400
<v Speaker 2>all the lore they made up, like the Indian burial ground.

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>As far as I know, they came up with that,

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:24.680
<v Speaker 2>even though they got the trybrowng So the whole idea

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.839
<v Speaker 2>of Amityville being as off the chain as it was

0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:31.800
<v Speaker 2>came largely from them, but also from the Lutz's story.

0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:33.399
<v Speaker 2>They helped publicize it big time.

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I looked up that house. It's been bought and

0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:39.160
<v Speaker 1>sold quite a bit over the years. But someone eventually

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:42.960
<v Speaker 1>changed those two upper windows. Yeah, that I don't know,

0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:45.759
<v Speaker 1>just kind of looked creepy like eyes, I guess, But

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:47.439
<v Speaker 1>now they're just regular windows.

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I saw that the old Arnold estate that was in

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:55.360
<v Speaker 2>conjuring one somebody bought it in like after the first

0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>conjuring came out for like half a million dollars and

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 2>then pumped up the idea that it was still haunted

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.440
<v Speaker 2>and sold it for a million and a half like

0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:04.320
<v Speaker 2>two years later.

0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:08.400
<v Speaker 1>It's another in demand haunted houses pretty much. Yes, that's interesting.

0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:11.719
<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest things that came out. Also, just

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 2>one really one thing before we go on. I would

0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 2>direct anybody who's into that first Conjuring and knows all

0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 2>about that house. To go read a blog called Dreaming Casually.

0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 2>A historian Jamie Rubio really looked into Bethsheba Sherman in

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.920
<v Speaker 2>her history and apparently it is all made up to

0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.799
<v Speaker 2>the point where she's essentially a slandered two hundred year

0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 2>old person. Go read that. But I think probably the

0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:42.200
<v Speaker 2>biggest knock that the Warrens got came in twenty seventeen,

0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:45.640
<v Speaker 2>long after they were international global stars thanks to the

0:37:45.680 --> 0:37:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Conjuring series, and a woman named Judith Penny came forward

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and said, Ed Warren and I had a sexual relationship

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 2>starting when I was fifteen, and Lorraine knew all about it.

0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like she moved into the house and supposedly

0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:04.680
<v Speaker 1>had a forty year relationship, and like you said, Lorraine

0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 1>was okay with it. I think they had a you know,

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:12.640
<v Speaker 1>a business going. Penny said that she was impregnated by

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Ed and Lorraine pressured her to have an abortion because

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that would hurt the business, the family business. And this

0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 1>is a big sort of red flag here. The Hollywood

0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:26.200
<v Speaker 1>reporter said that when Lorraine, because they got a bunch

0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:28.359
<v Speaker 1>of money to consult on TV and movies, over the years,

0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:29.720
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, we've kind of made that clear.

0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:33.360
<v Speaker 1>But Lorraine specifically had a deal to consult on the conjuring,

0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:38.160
<v Speaker 1>and she barred new Line from showing Ed and Lorraine

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:40.960
<v Speaker 1>being as anything other than what you said, like this

0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 1>sort of perfect couple. Specifically, it said no criminal offenses,

0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:50.960
<v Speaker 1>no sex with minors, no child pornography, prostitution or sexual assault,

0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:56.759
<v Speaker 1>or depicted as participating in an extramarital sexual relationship. And

0:38:57.920 --> 0:38:59.800
<v Speaker 1>just just so people know, this is not sort of

0:38:59.840 --> 0:39:03.799
<v Speaker 1>an normal kind of thing, even in Hollywood when they're

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:07.080
<v Speaker 1>doing these big contracts about you know, supposedly true stories,

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:10.080
<v Speaker 1>to include all that very specific stuff is not normal.

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I was reading that as well. So that's a

0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.200
<v Speaker 2>little odd, especially when you combine it with Judith Penny's.

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Story that sounds totally true.

0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:21.319
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, and again coming forward in twenty seventeen, it's

0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:24.279
<v Speaker 2>not like the moment the first conjuring came out, she's like,

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:27.840
<v Speaker 2>give me some money, Like she seemed to have a

0:39:27.880 --> 0:39:31.000
<v Speaker 2>pretty I think she actually testified in an affidavit that

0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:32.279
<v Speaker 2>all of this was true too.

0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's.

0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Tarnished their legacy a little bit, especially if peop if

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.280
<v Speaker 2>you already thought they were grifters or hucksters or something

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:46.319
<v Speaker 2>like that. It's not entirely clear whether they believed any

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.279
<v Speaker 2>of the claims that they made. If they didn't, then

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Lorraine Warren was one of the great character actors of

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:57.200
<v Speaker 2>all time who never broke character, at least in front

0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:00.400
<v Speaker 2>of anyone who is willing to come forward. And she

0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 2>died I think in twenty nineteen, long after the Conjuring

0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>had become huge. Ed died, I think sadly. The last

0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:10.680
<v Speaker 2>movie he got to see was The Haunting in Connecticut.

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 2>He died in two thousand and six. So they're both

0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:17.160
<v Speaker 2>gone now. But the New England Society for Psychic Research,

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:19.719
<v Speaker 2>which again they found it in nineteen fifty two, it's

0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:23.880
<v Speaker 2>still going on under their son in law, Tony Spira,

0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:26.839
<v Speaker 2>to whom quote all of their knowledge and experience has

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:28.240
<v Speaker 2>been successfully passed.

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:32.600
<v Speaker 1>That's right, And at that annabel Doll is still around.

0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:35.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't think they have that museum anymore.

0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 1>That closed in twenty nineteen when Lorraine passed away, but

0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.319
<v Speaker 1>Annabelle will show up here and there on tours and

0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 1>special events.

0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but they had a really cool museum from what

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I can tell. But it's shut down inexplicably, it's not

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:51.760
<v Speaker 2>open anymore, and there doesn't seem to be any plans

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.280
<v Speaker 2>to open it again. Yeah, but there's a new conjuring

0:40:55.440 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 2>movie out I think class really. Yeah, it's based on

0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 2>a case that we didn't talk about, but there was

0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuse by demons as well. It was also in

0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, so that was their big thing. Then.

0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Who wants to see that?

0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:12.239
<v Speaker 2>A lot of millions and millions and millions of people

0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:13.239
<v Speaker 2>around the world.

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Are they still super popular?

0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, and supposedly this one is like their last one,

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:22.480
<v Speaker 2>but they hand the reins over to their son in law,

0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Tony Sparrow, so he might become the new leader of

0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.240
<v Speaker 2>the franchise along with their daughter Judy.

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Amazing.

0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's basically like the new Marvel. Yeah, well, Chuck said,

0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 2>yeah everybody, which means, in old school fashion, it's time

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 2>for listener mail.

0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. This is just a quickie correction. Hey guys, I'm

0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:47.279
<v Speaker 1>listening now. And you might have heard this already, but

0:41:47.760 --> 0:41:51.919
<v Speaker 1>Chuck was right in pronouncing villa. Oh hi, double Chuck.

0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.160
<v Speaker 1>The double L sounds that Josh is talking about is Spanish,

0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:55.880
<v Speaker 1>not Italian.

0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:59.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what I was saying, that.

0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:01.399
<v Speaker 1>Is really Christina in New York?

0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Who is it? Huh?

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Who loves listening?

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot, Christina, we appreciate that. I think a

0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:08.759
<v Speaker 2>few people wrote in to say, yeah, Chuck was right,

0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:09.920
<v Speaker 2>that's fine.

0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:11.640
<v Speaker 1>This is the only one I saw.

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy. I'm happy for you, Chuck. Are you happy

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:16.880
<v Speaker 2>for me for being happy for you?

0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Sure?

0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay. If you want to get in touch with us,

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:23.160
<v Speaker 2>like Christina did, you can send us an email as well.

0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:36.719
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.