1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: Chuck and this is stuff you should know. We're into 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Now, Chuck, where do you think about that? 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: How you feel. 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: I have high hopes for this year? 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh man, do I really? I don't know. 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: I think you should. Okay, we should have high hopes 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: for every year and we can be let down, sure, 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: but no, you could still have high hopes. 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: I guess I have my cynical hat on. So that 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: was a bad time to ask me that question because 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren. As Julia said, 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: who titled this one? I'm using this title even it's 16 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: great a paranormal power couple that you might know if 17 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: you've ever seen movies like the Ammadeville Horror. So we 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: talked about them in that episode for sure, or the 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: Conjuring Yeah, or was it the Haunting in Connecticut? Yep 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: was another one. M h. They made a lot of 21 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: money scamming people. 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's really no well, I want 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: to say, there's no other way to put it. Plenty 24 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 2: of people on the internet put it differently, they were 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: the real deal, legit Ghostbusters demon Hunters. It just if 26 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: you add up all the evidence in your incredulous and 27 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: skeptical you probably not only suspect the Warrens were frauds, 28 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: but you might actually have a little disdain for him. 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: I say, we kind of present both sides, even though 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: I feel like it's pretty clear where we land. Maybe. 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Okay, have you seen Kpop Demon Hunters? No? Is it? 32 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: Kid? 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? I figured you guys would have seen that. I 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: figured you and you would be into that. 35 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: What is is it on Netflix? Because we don't have 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: that anymore? 37 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? It's Netflix original? 38 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: So okay, No, although they did show it. 39 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: In theaters, had sing alongs in the theaters and stuff. 40 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: Oh cute. I gotta see that. 41 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just didn't know if it's a legit sensation. 42 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: It's funny that we I don't know what we were 43 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: talking about, but the Conjuring came up not too long ago, 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: and you said you hadn't seen it. Have you still 45 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: not seen it? 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: Since last week? I have not seen the Conjuring? 47 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: Do you remember how it came up? 48 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean I think we were talking about the Raggedy 49 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: end All. 50 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: That's right, and a Doll's up great memory. So okay, 51 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: I still say the conjuring up the first one is 52 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: a legendary, classic, great ghost horror horror movie. It's just fantastic. 53 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: So nothing changed since last week. 54 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: No, but it could have because learning more and more 55 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: about the actual backstory behind it and just how exploitive 56 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: it was and how historically bent it is. Yeah, it 57 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: could have. It could have really affected how I view it, 58 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: but I decided not to. 59 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: Well, you can separate art from the rag doll for sure. 60 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: I can't, and I'm going to, by god, let's do 61 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: that right now. 62 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: All right? So Ed Lorraine Warren they founded in nineteen 63 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: fifty two of the New England Society for Psychic Research 64 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: in Connecticut. Ed said, you know, self described demonologists, Lorraine 65 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: self describe clairvoyant and trance medium. And they formed that 66 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: in Connecticut because they were both from Connecticut and looking 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: at their list of greatest hits, did a lot of 68 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: ghostbusting in Connecticut. 69 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things you can credit them for 70 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 2: is they made the idea of like ghost hunting mainstream 71 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: all of the terrible, yeah, terrible TV shows that are 72 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: around today. All ohe their existence to the Warrens. Essentially, 73 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: there were ghost hunters and psychical research societies and everything 74 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: around before them, but they were so huge into publicity 75 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: and getting their stories out there that they kind of 76 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: put it on the map as far as as far 77 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: as at least America is concerned. 78 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So credit or scorn, they were the ogs. 79 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: Ed was I guess Warren was his middle name because 80 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: he was born Ed Warren Mainey in nineteen twenty six 81 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: in Bridgeport. He says that he grew up in a 82 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: haunted house, so that's where he got his first jones 83 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: for this kind of work. And his wife was born 84 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: Lorraine Moran Moran I think Moran Moran later Warren obviously 85 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty seven, just a few months later, also 86 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: in Bridgeport. Grew up very very Catholic and met and 87 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: that'll play a part in their careers because it all 88 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: had a Catholic vant and they met as teenagers, got 89 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: married nineteen forty five when Ed was on leave from 90 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: the Navy serving the World War Two, and then they 91 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: had a little girl, Judy, and Ed went to art 92 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: school and ironically that's where they got their start ghostbusting 93 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: because they were traveling around selling hawking his wares as 94 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: an artist, and they said, well, while we're here, we 95 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: might as well do some paranormal investigation, because that's what you. 96 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: Do, right, And if you are familiar at all with 97 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: the Conjuring series, you're like already know all this. And 98 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: that was because the largest horror franchise in history, the 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: Conjuring Series, is based on the Warrens files, the books 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: they wrote, the interviews they gave, the TV shows that 101 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: they consulted on. If you put it all together, all 102 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: of the Conjuring movies that started in twenty thirteen have 103 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: grossed at least two point three billion dollars, all based 104 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: on the malarkey that the Warrants came up with from 105 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: the fifties to the I guess I think it really 106 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 2: kind of tapered off in like the nineties. 107 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's kind of crazy to think, right, 108 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: this just sort of average couple from Connecticut who were 109 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: doing their thing, Like I don't think anyone. I mean, 110 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: they certainly saw dollar signs, but nothing like that. 111 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: No, we have to say they never charged a dime 112 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: from anybody in need that they were helping. They didn't 113 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: make their money that way. They made their money through lectures, 114 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: through selling their stories other people's stories. Frankly, they had 115 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: a museum that they charged money to come in and see, 116 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: you know, entry, but they never charged the people that 117 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: they were helping, which I think is definitely worth pointing out. 118 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't show up and say what do you got? 119 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: You got a demon and you got a ghost. That's 120 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: let me see carry the one. We can get rid 121 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: of that thing for five grand. 122 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 123 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: So let's get into this. They I said, it was, 124 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, sort of very Catholic. Their encounters were very 125 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: much steeped in Catholic dogma. We're talking. I mean, it's 126 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: I say, it's right out of a horror movie, because 127 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: it literally was. People would speak in different languages. Supposedly, 128 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: they were alleged like hoof prints appearing in the snow, 129 00:06:53,720 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: levitating beds, levitating kids, foul smells, exorcisms, furniture. You know 130 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: that burnter is moving all over the place by itself. 131 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: Doors are shutting without any wind blowing, right, just shutting 132 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: for sure. 133 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is a fifty something year career. 134 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: They founded the New England Society for Psychic Research in 135 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty two. So they've been doing this for quite 136 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: a while, but they're they're all time. Huge cases didn't 137 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: really start to pick up until this seventies. I think 138 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: the first one that people point to is like the 139 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: first big deal case was actually became the basis for 140 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: that first conjuring movie. It was the paren Family Haunting 141 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: with Carolyn and Roger Parrin and they had five daughters, 142 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: and they moved into a house in Rhode Island, an 143 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: old farmhouse that was built in the seventeen fifties I 144 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: think maybe sixteen sixty seven round Top Road. It was 145 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: also known as the Old Arnold Estate, and they moved 146 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: in and they stayed there for ten years. But during 147 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: that ten year time, they had some really hard occurrences. 148 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: According to them. 149 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: That's right. That's a great way to say allegedly, because 150 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about how to mix that up. 151 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: According to them. 152 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm gonna use that. Yeah. 153 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: The children were the first ones to sort of get 154 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: the haunt, and the parents didn't really believe that was 155 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: going on. They told their daughters like, no, you know, 156 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: you're just being little girls, of course, and you're seeing 157 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: ghosts that aren't there. But the parents soon got on 158 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: board and said, yeah, something's happening here. The beds are levitating. 159 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: There's that awful smell. They did a little self research 160 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: before they called the Warrens and found that there had 161 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: been apparently a lot of really gruesome deaths over the 162 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: history of that home, which is not unusual for a 163 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: super old farmhouse. So that's when they picked up the phone. 164 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: They called the Warrens. I can't imagine what year was this, 165 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, Like, how I mean, this is in 166 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: Rhode Island. I guess word just gets around or maybe 167 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: they see a newspaper article or something, because you know, 168 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: before the Internet, it was to me that all these 169 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: people just knew who to call. 170 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: I was wondering that as well. And I think in 171 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: some cases they didn't call. It's just people have written 172 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: that because there's so many cases, and they're so convoluted, 173 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: and they're so just you know, there's so much bs 174 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: around them that people just take total liberties with it. 175 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: So it's not entirely clear who called whom. But let's 176 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: just say they call the Warrens. Right, the Warrens showed up, 177 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: they held a seance, and in the seance Carolyn is 178 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: thrown across the room, but first she starts speaking in tongues. 179 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: I think. Her daughter Andrea later wrote that she was 180 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: speaking in a language that never existed on earth, I think, 181 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: assuming that this was a demon, that kind of thing. 182 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: And they traced the whole thing back to the spirit 183 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: of a witch, a dead witch. And we established in 184 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: the bell Witch short stuff that a witch ghost is 185 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: the worst kind of both. And she had lived in 186 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: the house in the early eighteen hundreds. Not only was 187 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: she a witch, she was a child murderer. She had 188 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: murdered an infant with a knitting needle, and so they 189 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: had the seance. Carolyn gets thrown against the wall. Nothing changes, 190 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: nothing solid, and the Warrens are like, see you, thanks 191 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: for the story. You know, when the Warrens left, the 192 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: haunting hadn't ended, but the Pirons stuck it out. Her 193 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 2: parents stuck it out for ten years total, and then 194 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 2: when they moved out, the haunting stopped. 195 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: That's right, And you know what we're gonna do here. 196 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna go over some of their greatest hits as 197 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: told by the Warrens and others, and then maybe we'll 198 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: come back later and sort. 199 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: Of pick them up part a bit, maybe if we 200 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: feel like the. 201 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: Next one, of course, is Annabelle. We talked a little 202 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: bit about the Doll and the Dolls episode. This is 203 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the early seventies in Hartford, Connecticut, when a nurse got 204 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: a raggedy and doll as a gift, and the doll 205 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: came to life started doing some cute things like Hey, 206 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: I'll leave a little note for the nurse, and or 207 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be you're gonna put me down in this chair, 208 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: but I'm going to really go over in this room 209 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: just so you know that I'm fully animated and alive. 210 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: Like alf on the shelf kind of stuff. 211 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the nurse was like, all right, this 212 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: is fine because I think this doll was haunted by 213 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: a little girl who died in the house named Annabel Higgins, 214 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: and so I kind of feel bad because it's just 215 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: a little girl ghosts. But eventually her friend, she had 216 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: a friend that was physically attacked by unseen forces. I guess, 217 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: you know via Annabelle the Doll and ed. Lorraine says, 218 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: we're called in, but I wouldn't be surprised if they 219 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: weren't minding the news and making some calls themselves, you 220 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. 221 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, that would be my guest. Because 222 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: this is an era, the seventies. Man, you could call 223 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: a newspaper and be like, I've got a haunted doll, 224 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: my house is haunted, there's a ghost switch, and a 225 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: newspaper reporter would show up and write a story about it. 226 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: Right, totally. 227 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So yes, these stories did pop up the newspaper, 228 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: and I'm quite sure that the Warrens were reading papers 229 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: for this one way or another. They showed up and 230 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: they determined, no, this is not the ghost of a 231 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: little girl named Annabel Higgins. This is a demon hanging 232 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: around a doll pretending to be Annabel Higgins in order 233 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: to get close enough to Donna, the nurse whose doll 234 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: it is, so that she can possess her soul. And 235 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: that was the story that they told. What do you 236 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: do when you got a demon? 237 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: Chuck? You bringing an exorcist. And that's what they did. 238 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: And this is my favorite part of this whole article 239 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: is this sentence. It's unclear if it was successful, since 240 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: the doll continued to cause problems. Yeah, yeah, I'd say 241 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: that didn't work then. And the Warren said, all right, 242 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: we'll just we'll take that doll since the doll's not 243 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: the problem, and one day we shall make a lot 244 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: of money from this doll. 245 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, they put it in their museum under glass, and 246 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 2: apparently they said a prayer of containment to keep the 247 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: the doll and its attendant demon behind the class. 248 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: And I think it's worked because you know what, Apparently 249 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: that doll just sits there behind the. 250 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: Glass, yeah, staring. But they said that the last people 251 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: who mocked at somebody who was visiting the museum died 252 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 2: in a motorcycle crash right afterwards. So do you want 253 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: to move on to the Lutzes, because I love the 254 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: Lutzes and what they did, and said. 255 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this. We did a whole episode on this, 256 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: so I don't think we have to get super detailed. 257 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: But the Lutzes were the Amityville horror family. There at 258 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: one twelve Ocean Avenue in Amityville, New York. This is 259 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen seventies, and a real tragedy happened 260 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: here in nineteen seventy four at about three o'clock in 261 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: the morning when the guy who lived there, Ronald de Feo, 262 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: Junior killed his whole family as parents is, four younger siblings. 263 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 1: He killed them all as they slept by gunfire. And 264 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: then a year later the Lutz family moves in, and 265 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: they don't make it ten years. They make it about 266 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: a month before they realized that mortgage was way too much. 267 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly. They said that. Afterward, they went to 268 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: the press and said that they had experienced terrible odors. 269 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: Both George and Kathy, the parents had been possessed dish 270 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: maybe light, possessed that their daughter had made a friend 271 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: named Jody with red eyes, who is actually some sort 272 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: of pig ghost demon that no one else could see, 273 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: although I think somebody caught sight of it. Fly swarmed 274 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: out of nowhere and almost made Rod Steiger throw up. Yeah, 275 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: this one's the creepiest. I love it the most. Hoof 276 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: prints came out of nowhere in the snow outside of 277 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: the house, and you know it has hoof prints. 278 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: And walks upright, talented goat. 279 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: A talented goat, a pig ghost demon or Satan himself. 280 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: That's right. So the warrens are are there. I'm going 281 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: to just stop saying called in. They just appear out 282 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: of the ether. They do their investigation, and they said 283 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: that they at first confirmed the presence of a child ghost, 284 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: but then did a little more digging and said, actually, 285 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: this is not a haunted house. Everyone and then Letzes went, oh, 286 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: thank god, and they said, this is haunted land. The 287 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: very land under this house is evil. It was built 288 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: on Native American cemetery where they had some dark rituals 289 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: in the past, and this is what led Ronald de 290 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: Fayo to kill his whole family. So sorry to be 291 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: the bear of bad tidings, but you guys are in 292 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: bad trouble. 293 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. This is a one time seance that they held 294 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: where they found all this stuff out and they actually 295 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: one of the most famous photos of a ghost ever produced. 296 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: It's called the ghost Boy photo from the Amityville House, 297 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: came out of this investigation, this one night investigation the 298 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: Warrens had. You've never seen the ghost Boy photo from Amityville. 299 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: Go type that in and check it out. It is 300 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: a creepy, really great, creepy, unsettling photo, especially if you 301 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: compare it to John Defao. I think he was the 302 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: youngest brother of the Dafeo's who were murdered by their 303 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: the oldest brother. It looks an awful lot like him. 304 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: So a lot of people are like, there you go. 305 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: The Warrens had it figured out. There's a ghost, there's 306 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: Indian burial ground is now a trope thanks to them, 307 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 2: and we can thank them for poultry Geist as a result. 308 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: That's right, I say we take a break, yeah, yeah, 309 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: and we'll talk about three more of their more famous 310 00:16:38,560 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: investigations right after this. This is fun, all right, we're back. 311 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: I guess it's not too far past Halloween, so in 312 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: our minds, you know, it's not early January, so we're 313 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: sort of in that spooky mood. So this is sitting 314 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: quite well with us. But we need to talk about 315 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: the Infield haunting, because this is not in Connecticut, my friends. 316 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: This is in London, England, in nineteen seventy seven, and 317 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: Infield is a suburb of London and at the time 318 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: one Peggy Hodgson and her daughters were what were they? 319 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: They were terrorized by unseen forces just like the rest. 320 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: They move into this place, banging sounds coming from the 321 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: daughter's room. Peggy bursts in and sees this dresser creeping 322 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: across the floor by itself, seemingly going toward the door. 323 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: To block it, and Peggy was like, I got to 324 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: get that dresser. It's out of control. But by the 325 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: time she got to it, it was like it was glued. 326 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: She couldn't even move this thing. 327 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: No, this is the basis for The Conjuring two. Also 328 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 2: a truly great ghost movie, especially for a sequel. 329 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: And is this London? 330 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's based on this. This is 331 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: a very famous case that was also investigated by the 332 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: Society for Psychical Research, which was founded all the way 333 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: back in eighteen eighty two, seventy years before the Warrens 334 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 2: founded their society. But they showed up because the Hodgson's, 335 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: or i should say Peggy Hodgson, couldn't get any help 336 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: from the police and she had basically reached the end 337 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: of her rope because one of her daughter's Janet I 338 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: think the youngest daughter was started falling into trances and 339 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: apparently was possessed by a ghost named Bill Wilkins, who 340 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 2: said that he had died in that same house, actually 341 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 2: in a chair in the corner, and that he wanted 342 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 2: everybody out because this was his house. And if you 343 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: see that movie, it's really well done and super creepy. 344 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: Have you seen all those movies. 345 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: I have seen those two. Oh okay, the extent of it. 346 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: How many are there? Good? God, I mean things are 347 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: they conjured? 348 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: So with the conjured, I think they're up to four 349 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 2: maybe okay, But then there's a whole other like subfranchise 350 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: with the Evil Nun. I think I've seen one of those. 351 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: It's been off and stuff. 352 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: And then the Annabelle stuff too, But I've only seen 353 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 2: the first two conjurings, and they're good. They're good movies. 354 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: They're hokey in a lot of ways. But yeah, as 355 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: far like a good, decent, even mediocre ghost movie is 356 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: so few and far between. There's so many terrible ones that, like, 357 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: you know, I'll take whatever decent table scraps can be. 358 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: Trust at me. 359 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you, Okay, I'll check it out. So, 360 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: like you said, the Society for Psychical Research, is that right? Cycical? Yeah, 361 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: they come in. They're competitors of the Warren of course 362 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: over there, I guess, and they observed, you know, all 363 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: the stuff they were talking about, like things levitating, furniture 364 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: moving of course, fires erupting out of nowhere, apparently, cups 365 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: just filling up with water when there is no water around. Supposedly, 366 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: one of the researchers had a curtain that was slowly 367 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: creeping around his neck as if to choke him. 368 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a skeptical society that believes in the 369 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: possibility of ghosts and poulsitery guys and stuff. But they're 370 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 2: not just credulous thing dongs. 371 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: Oh that society, what are they? The psycho society are Yeah, okay, yeah, 372 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: all right, well that's good. Ed and Lorraine maybe investigated, 373 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: maybe didn't. This is where it gets a little dodgy, 374 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that in act three. 375 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: But at any rate, in nineteen seventy eight, they said, 376 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: you got a polter, guys, that's what the deal is. 377 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: And you know New Line Cinema. You want to buy 378 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: this story, we'll sell it to you. 379 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did. There was a really cool documentary 380 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 2: I saw where the so the spr made tons of 381 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: audio tapes, real the real audio tapes of this, and 382 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: somebody made a docu I guess a docudrama or whatever 383 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 2: where they used the tapes as all of the audio 384 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: and then they hired actors to act out the stuff 385 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: and the dialogue was the tape. So these people had 386 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 2: to lip sync with the tapes, and it was all 387 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: done in period costumes and all that stuff from the seventies. 388 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 2: It's really good. I can't remember the name of it, 389 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: but I'm pretty sure that's the only the only documentary 390 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 2: to attempt that. So if you can find that, watch it. 391 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: Did you ever watch that Zoom Call horror movie that 392 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: I recommended? 393 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty decent. 394 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, not bad, huh. Yeah. 395 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: I was really uncomfortable when they started making light of 396 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: it in front of the psychic medium. That was the 397 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: thing that got me the most. 398 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: It was, oh yeah, you know, yeah, plus you know 399 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: that they're going to get it, you know, even worse 400 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: because of that. What was it called, I think it 401 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: was called host I thought it was very well done, 402 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, pretty clever COVID movie when you know they 403 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: were shooting stuff in a as creatively as they could 404 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: because of the restrictions. 405 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: Yes, it was a good movie. 406 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. We got a couple of 407 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: more here, the case of Arnie Johnson, also in Connecticut, 408 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: very conveniently located in Brookfield. This was in nineteen eighty one, 409 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: and this one is interesting because there was a nineteen 410 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: year old named Arnie Johnson who stabbed his landlord Alan 411 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: Bono or Bono twenty times. And in his trial he says, 412 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm not guilty, and they said temporary insanity and they 413 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: said no, no, no demonic possession. In the court went, 414 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: oh boy, here we go. 415 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: I think this is the first time anyone ever tried that. 416 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: The reason he said that is because he said, I 417 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 2: really am possessed by a demon. My fiance, Debbie, her 418 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: little brother David, has been possessed by a demon for 419 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: a while, and we had an exorcism. And during the exorcism, 420 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: to help David out, I dared the demon to inhabit 421 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 2: me instead. Well he did, and when I got into 422 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: that argument with the landlord, that demon is the one 423 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: who really stabbed him, not me. Was defense. But I 424 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: think the Warrens showed up before all of this, before 425 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: the stabbing even and they took a look at David 426 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: and ed looks a little David up and down. It's like, yeah, 427 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: you still got demons attached to you. You still got 428 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: forty three demons, that's. 429 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: Right, he counted them. That's why they had that exorcism. 430 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: Is the Warrens came in and said because Initially they 431 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: thought it was a ghost, you know, yeah, and they 432 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, the the Glatzels who that was Debbie's last name, 433 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: the girlfriend they brought in clergy from the Catholic church 434 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: to bless young David. That didn't work. So that's when 435 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: the Warrens show up and they're like, no, it's demonic, 436 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: it's not a ghost, and you need that exorcism. And 437 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: during that exorcism is when Arnie Johnson's like, oh, yeah, 438 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: come into me, I dare you right? 439 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: And then the murder happens and they guy ends up 440 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: in trial Arnie Johnson. I think he went by Cheyenne 441 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: his middle name, and so the judge is like, I'm 442 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: not even going to accept that as a defense. What 443 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: else you got? And they're like self defense And they 444 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: tried them on self defense and you got five years 445 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: in prison for manslaughter. So I guess they believe that 446 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: to an extent. That's not the end of that case. 447 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 2: But that's a huge legendary case too. And then there 448 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 2: was also there was a movie called The Haunting in Connecticut. 449 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: It's awful and it was made kind of outside of 450 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 2: the Warren's purview, but this was a case that's largely 451 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 2: associated with them. That involved the Sneteker family. 452 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: That's right. That was also very conveniently located in Southington, Connecticut, 453 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: right there on Meriden Avenue. And this is a case 454 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: where two people at Carmen Reed and Alan Snedeker, they 455 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: got their kids, had four of them, and a niece. 456 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: They brought them there to live because their son Philip 457 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: needed nearby medical care, kind of long term medical care, 458 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: and it made it more convenient, so they moved in there. 459 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: They move in and of course things start going down. Philip, 460 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: who was the young six son, start seeing a threatening 461 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: young man with long dark hair who would just repeat 462 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: his name over and over. And then Carmen, I believe 463 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: was the mom, was in the basement and she was like, 464 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: wait a minute. There are toe tags and there's embalming 465 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: equipment here and photos of dead people. I wonder what 466 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: this house used to be, and everyone said, duh, it 467 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: was a funeral home. 468 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Hallahan funeral home for decades, I think, pretty 469 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: much right before it became a home for rent. And 470 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: it turned out that Philip's room was once the display 471 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 2: room for caskets when they sold you the caskets, you know, 472 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: they have like half caskets on the wall, that kind 473 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: of thing. This is where Philip was sleeping. The embalming 474 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: room was just down the hall. The thing is Philip 475 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: needing this constant care of treatments for Hodgkins lymphoma type 476 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: of cancer. They couldn't move, they couldn't leave the house, 477 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: so they had to kind of stick it out, and 478 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: things just kept getting worse worse. Finally, Phillips started to 479 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: change and became very violent and was I think forced 480 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: forcibly taken to a mental hospital for observation and stayed 481 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: there for a couple of months. I think it was 482 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 2: finally diagnosed with schizophrenia. He moved out, he avoided the 483 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: house again, and I don't remember if the haunting continued 484 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: or not. But one of the big things that came 485 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: out of this was an appearance and Sally Jesse Raphael. 486 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 2: The title of the episode is I was Raped by 487 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: a Ghost because Carmen said that she was repeatedly raped 488 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 2: by a ghost and the niece was fondled by a ghost. 489 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: And the Warrens also show up on that episode, and 490 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 2: you can find it online. It's a Sally Esse Raphael 491 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: episode for sure. 492 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, you sent that to me, and I did my 493 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: best to script through and hit the highs. Right, shall 494 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: we take a break, Yeah, let's take a break, all right, 495 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: We'll take a break and kind of up up with 496 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: what's going on with the Warrens in all these cases 497 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: right after this. M M. 498 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: All right, chuck. So one of the things that gives 499 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: the Warrens casework, I guess, credence in any quarter is 500 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: that this is all based on some kernel of truth. 501 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 2: Like Ronald Fayo did kill him his family in the 502 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 2: Amityville house. That definitely happened before the Lutz has moved 503 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: in the house in that the Snetecker's rented was the 504 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: Hallahan funeral home before they showed up there, and there 505 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: were like embalming tools still there left over. It turns 506 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: out that a man name named Bill Wilkins did die 507 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: in that house in Enfield in London, just exactly at 508 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: the time that young Janet, who was apparently possessed by him, 509 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: said that he had died in the same place that 510 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: she said he had died too. So there's like all 511 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: of this these different things that are just factual enough 512 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: to kind of provide a basis that can then be 513 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: kind of filled in with some fat, maybe a little 514 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 2: muscle and sinew to make a full blown, like you know, 515 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 2: haunting story. 516 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the Warrens, if you asked them 517 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: back then, they would say, hey, we kept a lot 518 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: of this evidence. They called it heart quote hard evidence 519 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: in different you know, artifacts and things. A lot of 520 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: this stuff was kept in the museum you know that 521 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: they had at their house that they you could, you know, 522 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: pay to go into and look over the stuff. Some 523 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: of it was made public, some of it they held back, 524 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 1: you know, they said some of the juiciest stuff they 525 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: couldn't even show. Of course, and in nineteen ninety seven 526 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and finally the New England Skeptical Society said all right, 527 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: let's uh, let's get together, let's talk this out. Let's 528 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: look at this evidence that you've got. They brought out 529 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: that Ghostboy photo. Of course, they had audio recordings that 530 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: had these you know, strange sort of non languages or 531 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: other worldly voices. That was the one I think in 532 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: Infield with Bill Wilkins like. They trotted that out and 533 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: played it. They had that Annabel doll. She shook that 534 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: doll and said, look what do you call this? H 535 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: She didn't shake it, of course, because it was stored 536 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: under glass, right. And then they had you know, witnesses 537 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: and personal accounts from people that you know, testified not 538 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: in court obviously, but that all this stuff was you know, 539 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: very real to them. 540 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so these scientists evaluated all of their evidence 541 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: and their means and methods and motives, and they decided 542 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: that it's all blarnie. 543 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: They said, yes, their quote by the way, yeah Barney. 544 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really say blarney very often. I say malarkey, 545 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: I guess because I did at the beginning, but this 546 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: was I guess it was based on that quote. They 547 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: said they're not doing good scientific investigation, which I think 548 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: is generous to even assume that they're doing any scientific investigation, 549 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: and that there's like they come along, they say it's 550 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: a demon, and then everything that they kind of all 551 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: the evidence they gather supports that hypothesis rather than gathering 552 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 2: evidence and then coming up with a hypothesis from it. 553 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: And they basically were like, none of this stuff is falsifiable, testable, Like, yes, 554 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: there's a doll right there that they say is haunted, 555 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: that's not evidence, right. Yeah, So they just basically said 556 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: that it's all. They're just total frauds. And if you 557 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: look at the history of the Warrens, this is not 558 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: the first time that happened to him, It was not 559 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: the last time that happened to them. They just rolled 560 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: with it. It never slowed them down. They never seemed 561 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: to freak out whenever they were called frauds or hucksters 562 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 2: or grifters, like they just either just shook it off 563 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 2: or they had some sort of response like Lorraine Warren 564 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: had in response to that New England Skeptical Society nineteen 565 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: ninety seven study. 566 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, she said, they don't base anything on a God. 567 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: Right, So if you don't bring God into it and 568 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: the idea that they're Roman Catholic god warriors fighting right 569 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 2: evil incarnate on Earth helping families for free, then of 570 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 2: course it's not going to make any sense to you egghead, 571 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: pencilneck college boy scientists. 572 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, one of the biggest criticisms of 573 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: their work and other work by other paranormal investigators because 574 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of these people use pretty questionable 575 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: techniques at times. So it's not like the Warrens were 576 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: any worse than a lot of them. But the fact 577 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: that a lot of times you can trace this back 578 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: to maybe somebody in that household has some sort of 579 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: mental illness going on and they're being exploited. 580 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Like you can be like, well, 581 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: it's all in just in good fun, but there are 582 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: actual problems with what they were doing, and that's one 583 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: of them. And even if they weren't mentally ill, some 584 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: of these families did believe that there was something going 585 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: on and they were in some sort of crisis, and 586 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: the Warrens would come in tell them they had some demons, 587 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: maybe give it a shot, maybe solve things or not, 588 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: and then go off and sell the family's story as 589 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 2: their own case. Right. That's again how they made a 590 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: lot of money was writing books and giving lectures based 591 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: on these places where they just show up and then 592 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: take over the story and insert themselves. That's harmful. I 593 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: also saw that you can describe, at least in part, 594 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: the satanic panic that came along in the eighties from 595 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: them kind of normalizing the idea that people were out 596 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: there getting possessed by forty three demons, getting raped by ghosts. 597 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: That was a contribution they made. And then also especially 598 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 2: these conjuring stories now if you watch them, Chuck, the 599 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: Lorraine and Ed Warren are portrayed as this couple who 600 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: have arguably the greatest marriage in the history of humans, 601 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: and that they are just steam powered by God and 602 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. They're battling evil here on earth. 603 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: And so I think it kind of whips up like 604 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 2: a little bit of potentially misplaced religious version of patriotism 605 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 2: and people who are religious. 606 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, So you know, we can now talk about 607 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: some sort of maybe the claims against some of these cases. 608 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: One of the claims was that the Warrens actually paid 609 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: a guy named Ray Gorton to completely make up the 610 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: Snedtecker haunting. They worked with an author, I mean, which 611 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: is true. His name was Ray Gorton to write a 612 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: book about that case called In a Dark Place Colon 613 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: the Story of a True Haunting, and Gordon in two 614 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: thousand and nine said that book was entirely fiction and 615 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: there are grifters because I was interviewing this family and 616 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: the stories didn't match up from person to person, and 617 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I took it to Ed and he said, quote, they're crazy. 618 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: All the people who come to us are crazy. That's 619 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: why they come to us. Just use what you can 620 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: and make up the rest. Yeah. So that's one Snetecker case. 621 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 2: That's one little piece of evidence. And this guy actually 622 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 2: wrote the book and was paid by it. I don't, 623 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that he had much of 624 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: an ax to grind right the Enfield House. It's not 625 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 2: even clear that they investigated at all. The closest anyone's 626 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 2: ever put them to this haunting was one of the 627 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: Society for Psychical Research Investigators. Guy, I don't know if 628 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: it's leon or lyon Playfair, he was one of the 629 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 2: lead dudes. He said that that at the very least 630 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: Ed showed up maybe for an hour or something, was 631 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: hanging out outside I guess with them, and it was like, 632 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,879 Speaker 2: you know, you can make you can make some money 633 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: off of this if you want to do some business, 634 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 2: and I guess Playfair was like I don't, I don't 635 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 2: do that, and so Ed was like all right, see 636 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: you and took off and then again took the story 637 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: as their own, Like if you watch The Conjuring two, 638 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 2: they are basically the lynchpin to freeing this family from 639 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: this torment. 640 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Amy Deville supposedly was a hoax. This all 641 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: came out. Later in nineteen seventy nine, there was a 642 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: lawsuit and the guy who shot up his family, Ronald Feo. 643 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: His defense lawyer William Webber, said that he and the 644 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: Lutz family made it all up one night over a 645 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: quote several bottles of wine, and the Lutzes kind of 646 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: came out and said, yeah, that's pretty much what happened, 647 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: and Ed and Lorraine Wore were like, no, that's not 648 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: what happened, right. 649 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 2: I think Lorraine had a quote during this seance. So 650 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 2: they met George Lutz once when he handed off the 651 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 2: keys for them to go have a seance. They didn't 652 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 2: never meet Kathy. They never walked around the house or 653 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 2: worked with them. They had a one night seance where 654 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 2: that ghostboy photo was produced, which must have been just 655 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 2: jackpot luck for them because it looks a lot like 656 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 2: John Defayo in the face. But John to Fayo is 657 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: also wearing the exact same shirt that an assistant named 658 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 2: Paul Bart who was there that night, was wearing. People 659 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 2: are like, well, he's probably taking a measurement or working 660 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: on equipment, kneeling down, and it just happened that his 661 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: photo was taken. But the idea that they had much, 662 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: if anything, to do with Amityville is incorrect, except for 663 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: all the lore they made up, like the Indian burial ground. 664 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: As far as I know, they came up with that, 665 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 2: even though they got the trybrowng So the whole idea 666 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 2: of Amityville being as off the chain as it was 667 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 2: came largely from them, but also from the Lutz's story. 668 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 2: They helped publicize it big time. 669 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. I looked up that house. It's been bought and 670 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: sold quite a bit over the years. But someone eventually 671 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: changed those two upper windows. Yeah, that I don't know, 672 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: just kind of looked creepy like eyes, I guess, But 673 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 1: now they're just regular windows. 674 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 2: I saw that the old Arnold estate that was in 675 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 2: conjuring one somebody bought it in like after the first 676 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 2: conjuring came out for like half a million dollars and 677 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 2: then pumped up the idea that it was still haunted 678 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: and sold it for a million and a half like 679 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 2: two years later. 680 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: It's another in demand haunted houses pretty much. Yes, that's interesting. 681 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 2: One of the biggest things that came out. Also, just 682 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: one really one thing before we go on. I would 683 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: direct anybody who's into that first Conjuring and knows all 684 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 2: about that house. To go read a blog called Dreaming Casually. 685 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 2: A historian Jamie Rubio really looked into Bethsheba Sherman in 686 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: her history and apparently it is all made up to 687 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 2: the point where she's essentially a slandered two hundred year 688 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 2: old person. Go read that. But I think probably the 689 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: biggest knock that the Warrens got came in twenty seventeen, 690 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 2: long after they were international global stars thanks to the 691 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 2: Conjuring series, and a woman named Judith Penny came forward 692 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 2: and said, Ed Warren and I had a sexual relationship 693 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: starting when I was fifteen, and Lorraine knew all about it. 694 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like she moved into the house and supposedly 695 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: had a forty year relationship, and like you said, Lorraine 696 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: was okay with it. I think they had a you know, 697 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: a business going. Penny said that she was impregnated by 698 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: Ed and Lorraine pressured her to have an abortion because 699 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: that would hurt the business, the family business. And this 700 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: is a big sort of red flag here. The Hollywood 701 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: reporter said that when Lorraine, because they got a bunch 702 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: of money to consult on TV and movies, over the years, 703 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we've kind of made that clear. 704 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: But Lorraine specifically had a deal to consult on the conjuring, 705 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: and she barred new Line from showing Ed and Lorraine 706 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: being as anything other than what you said, like this 707 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: sort of perfect couple. Specifically, it said no criminal offenses, 708 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: no sex with minors, no child pornography, prostitution or sexual assault, 709 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: or depicted as participating in an extramarital sexual relationship. And 710 00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: just just so people know, this is not sort of 711 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: an normal kind of thing, even in Hollywood when they're 712 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: doing these big contracts about you know, supposedly true stories, 713 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: to include all that very specific stuff is not normal. 714 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was reading that as well. So that's a 715 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 2: little odd, especially when you combine it with Judith Penny's. 716 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: Story that sounds totally true. 717 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 2: But yeah, and again coming forward in twenty seventeen, it's 718 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 2: not like the moment the first conjuring came out, she's like, 719 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 2: give me some money, Like she seemed to have a 720 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 2: pretty I think she actually testified in an affidavit that 721 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 2: all of this was true too. 722 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's. 723 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: Tarnished their legacy a little bit, especially if peop if 724 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 2: you already thought they were grifters or hucksters or something 725 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 2: like that. It's not entirely clear whether they believed any 726 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: of the claims that they made. If they didn't, then 727 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: Lorraine Warren was one of the great character actors of 728 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 2: all time who never broke character, at least in front 729 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 2: of anyone who is willing to come forward. And she 730 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: died I think in twenty nineteen, long after the Conjuring 731 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: had become huge. Ed died, I think sadly. The last 732 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 2: movie he got to see was The Haunting in Connecticut. 733 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 2: He died in two thousand and six. So they're both 734 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 2: gone now. But the New England Society for Psychic Research, 735 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 2: which again they found it in nineteen fifty two, it's 736 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 2: still going on under their son in law, Tony Spira, 737 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 2: to whom quote all of their knowledge and experience has 738 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 2: been successfully passed. 739 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: That's right, And at that annabel Doll is still around. 740 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think they have that museum anymore. 741 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: That closed in twenty nineteen when Lorraine passed away, but 742 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: Annabelle will show up here and there on tours and 743 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: special events. 744 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 2: Yes, but they had a really cool museum from what 745 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 2: I can tell. But it's shut down inexplicably, it's not 746 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 2: open anymore, and there doesn't seem to be any plans 747 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 2: to open it again. Yeah, but there's a new conjuring 748 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 2: movie out I think class really. Yeah, it's based on 749 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 2: a case that we didn't talk about, but there was 750 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 2: sexual abuse by demons as well. It was also in 751 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 2: the eighties, so that was their big thing. Then. 752 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: Who wants to see that? 753 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 2: A lot of millions and millions and millions of people 754 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 2: around the world. 755 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: Are they still super popular? 756 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 2: Oh yes, and supposedly this one is like their last one, 757 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 2: but they hand the reins over to their son in law, 758 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 2: Tony Sparrow, so he might become the new leader of 759 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,240 Speaker 2: the franchise along with their daughter Judy. 760 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: Amazing. 761 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically like the new Marvel. Yeah, well, Chuck said, 762 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: yeah everybody, which means, in old school fashion, it's time 763 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 2: for listener mail. 764 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. This is just a quickie correction. Hey guys, I'm 765 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: listening now. And you might have heard this already, but 766 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,919 Speaker 1: Chuck was right in pronouncing villa. Oh hi, double Chuck. 767 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: The double L sounds that Josh is talking about is Spanish, 768 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: not Italian. 769 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was saying, that. 770 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: Is really Christina in New York? 771 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 2: Who is it? Huh? 772 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: Who loves listening? 773 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Christina, we appreciate that. I think a 774 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 2: few people wrote in to say, yeah, Chuck was right, 775 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 2: that's fine. 776 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: This is the only one I saw. 777 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: I'm happy. I'm happy for you, Chuck. Are you happy 778 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 2: for me for being happy for you? 779 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: Sure? 780 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: Okay. If you want to get in touch with us, 781 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 2: like Christina did, you can send us an email as well. 782 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:29,439 Speaker 2: Send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 783 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 784 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 785 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.