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Speaker 1: Hey want to bulocome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is

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Speaker 1: All Ball. We got a great guest for you on

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Speaker 1: these next two All Balls. Johnny Cower will join me.

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Speaker 1: He's the head coach of St.

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Speaker 2: Thomas.

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Speaker 1: The Tommy's are in first place in the Summit League

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Speaker 1: and he's built them from a Division III National champion

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Speaker 1: to potentially a Summit League champion, and they're still not

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Speaker 1: eligible for the NCAA tournament, something that obviously most people

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Speaker 1: know that the transition years should go away.

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Speaker 2: They just should.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get into all things Saint Thomas in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Do want to update you.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, at the time of this recording, we've lost fifteen

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Speaker 1: games in a row, and as tough as that sounds,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you get people like, oh, that's got

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Speaker 1: to be miserable. Don't get me wrong in the moment.

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Speaker 1: In the moment, it can be. But it's a really

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Speaker 1: fascinating process and I do want to use this pod

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Speaker 1: to tell some of the story. First, I'll tell the

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Speaker 1: story of this past weekend. You know, we had been

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Speaker 1: steadily improving and we thought we felt like we played

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Speaker 1: really well in spurts against Milwaukee and had a legit chance.

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Speaker 1: So look, we felt like we played, we played well.

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Speaker 1: We're a different team, like one of the things that's

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Speaker 1: crazy about this year, And I think I'll take a

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Speaker 1: pod probably at the end of the year and go

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Speaker 1: back through so many different changes. But we've sort of

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Speaker 1: been three or four very different teams in terms of

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Speaker 1: our roster composition. And we added Yonatan Levy a Levy

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Speaker 1: excuse me, who joined us from Israel, going back three

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, and I remember, like when we got him, our

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Speaker 1: plan was, hey, can we get him on the twenty

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Speaker 1: first of December, that's when he was eligible to join us,

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Speaker 1: But because of paperwork and trying to get out of Israel,

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Speaker 1: then we're like, okay, well he'll join us at the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixth when we start practice for the twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't arrive until the thirtieth, and then we

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Speaker 1: played him later. We played them two games with like

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Speaker 1: two practices under his belt, and he wasn't in shape.

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Speaker 2: So then we had essentially.

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Speaker 1: A week to sort of get him into shape and

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Speaker 1: to figure out what we wanted to run and how

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Speaker 1: we wanted to play.

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Speaker 2: And remember, like I still had to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to coach him.

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Speaker 1: Guys had to figure out how to play with him,

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Speaker 1: and then we had to figure out what, you know,

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Speaker 1: not what he does best, but what kind of condition

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Speaker 1: he's in. And like, you can only condition somebody so

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Speaker 1: much when you have you know, you have a mandatory

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Speaker 1: day off and then you know, you got three or

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Speaker 1: four practices and then you go and play on a Saturday.

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Speaker 1: So we felt like we did a pretty good job

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Speaker 1: preliminarily against Milwaukee. So then we have a couple days

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Speaker 1: to prepare for three games and six days, I mean

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Speaker 1: have three games.

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Speaker 2: In six days.

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Speaker 1: You got to figure out, all right, we have to

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Speaker 1: be light in terms of our practice load so that

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Speaker 1: we can't really condition guys then because they'll just break

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Speaker 1: you down. But we thought, hey, maybe Tuesday. We played

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Speaker 1: on a Friday, so we felt like, all right, we

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Speaker 1: Monday we did individual workouts and a lot of film

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Speaker 1: study and just kind of getting him sharper and how

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Speaker 1: we want to use him. And then Tuesday we were

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Speaker 1: set to have pretty tough low practice. Well, he heard

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Speaker 1: his hip flexer on Tuesday lifting weights, so he barely

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Speaker 1: practiced during the week. You go into a game against

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Speaker 1: Robert Morris and it was a game time decision thing.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, of course he's gonna play, like his

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Speaker 1: dad is flew in from Israel. His dad's a former

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Speaker 1: national team player in Israel. It's got to play, and

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Speaker 1: he just coach I can't go. And so now we're

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Speaker 1: back to kind of playing how we played in the

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Speaker 1: last you know, a month or so without Anthony Roy,

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Speaker 1: our leading scorer, which is different, and it takes away

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Speaker 1: everything we had kind of worked on. And we're up

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Speaker 1: seventeen in the first half, but we suffered massive foul trouble,

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Speaker 1: something we haven't had all year and we're at home,

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Speaker 1: which was let's just say strange attended to foul differential

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Speaker 1: and I'll just be you know, like, look, I can

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Speaker 1: only be honest. I didn't think the officiating in terms

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Speaker 1: of what was it call at one end and what

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Speaker 1: was it called the other end?

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Speaker 2: Was it was fair and square? I just didn't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's some Grandma conspiracy or anything, right,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing nefarious at work.

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Speaker 2: It just worked out that way.

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Speaker 1: And we don't have any depth of experience literally trying

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Speaker 1: to play our more most experienced guys and are our

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Speaker 1: best guys, and you know, people see the twenty eight

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Speaker 1: nothing run and like they don't realize that there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of things. We missed five layups during that run,

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Speaker 1: and we had to play, you know, we had to

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Speaker 1: go deep into our are not so deep bench. And remember,

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Speaker 1: like if you you're missing your top to your top

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Speaker 1: three players, right, Anthony Roway not playing because he's injured,

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Speaker 1: you on time Levy not playing because he's injured, and

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Speaker 1: you're playing, you're playing on a seven or eight man rotation. Well,

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Speaker 1: now you play five and your seven or eight man

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Speaker 1: rotation becomes your nine to ten. And then when you

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Speaker 1: have three people in foul trouble, you're playing then in

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Speaker 1: eleven and they're just young and Robert Morris got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of confidence and went on a run, and our

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Speaker 1: guys collectively didn't react well. But here's where you know

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Speaker 1: you have the right kind of kid. Obviously, I just

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Speaker 1: was upset and beside myself felt like we'd had such

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Speaker 1: good practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays, assuming you're on a

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Speaker 1: time with play, we feel like there's a good team

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Speaker 1: in our locker room.

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Speaker 2: They were.

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Speaker 1: It was tough the day in between games. You have

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Speaker 1: one day to prepare for Youngstown State, one of the

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Speaker 1: best teams in our league coming in and you know

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Speaker 1: they're coming off of lost to Milwaukee, so I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they were like, hey, we got to get this one back.

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Speaker 1: And we had kind of like a player's only plus

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Speaker 1: me session, and I just established there's four things that

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Speaker 1: are gonna win usay game. Defend rebound value the ball belief,

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Speaker 1: Defend rebound valuaball belief, Defend rebound value the ball belief

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Speaker 1: because we just have to be better. Defensively. We were

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Speaker 1: we have to rebound the basketball better, limited better, but

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Speaker 1: still gave up thirteen offense ruins value the ball. We

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Speaker 1: had sixteen turnovers, many of them late, and that's what

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Speaker 1: led to us losing. And then believe, and that's it's

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Speaker 1: just hard to get them to believe that we are

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Speaker 1: going to win games.

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Speaker 2: We had to believe it before it actually happens.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you're up ten with I look up

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Speaker 1: nine twenty two to go, and I'm like, this is it.

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Speaker 2: We got them.

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Speaker 1: Just execute down the stretch and you know what happens

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Speaker 1: is you see the fissures. It's not one play, but

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Speaker 1: we run a play that there's a layup on the

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Speaker 1: back end of it. We turn it over and then

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Speaker 1: they pick up the pressure and we turn it over.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they didn't shoot the basketball, and though

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Speaker 1: they rebounded it well, really they won the game on

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Speaker 1: those couple of steals and dunks that followed. So you'd

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Speaker 1: think back to the drawing boards, and when you invest

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Speaker 1: every amount of your mental emotional being into a group

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Speaker 1: of young men and you're so close and then you

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Speaker 1: come up short, it's devastating.

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Speaker 2: It's devastating.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, we had a practice yesterday and

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Speaker 1: not really practice, this kind of team meeting again.

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Speaker 2: Watch film. They got shots up.

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Speaker 1: All those guys that played heavy minutes, got time in

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Speaker 1: the pool, got time to rehab, got time to take

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Speaker 1: care of their bodies.

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Speaker 2: And they're still all in.

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Speaker 1: And I know that, you know, if you're listening to this,

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Speaker 1: you're obviously invested in my conversations and in this journey.

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Speaker 1: I know we're doing the right things. I know we're

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Speaker 1: getting more out of some guys than anybody thought possible.

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Speaker 1: I know that anybody who watches our games can see

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Speaker 1: the incremental improvement in the things that we do improve

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Speaker 1: most on the process is better. The results will eventually follow.

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Speaker 1: When it happens, you'll know it. But there's no quit.

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Speaker 1: And yeah it does suck, but this is this is

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Speaker 1: part of it. You gotta go through it. And I remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, Bill's self when he got the Kansas job,

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Speaker 1: talking about he lost eighteen in a row his first

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Speaker 1: year at or Roberts, and I just thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: I can't do that, Like I just I can't do that.

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Speaker 1: And now we're at fifteen and we have one more

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Speaker 1: home game and then back on the road against really

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Speaker 1: good opponents. So we'll get it going. And I am

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Speaker 1: learning a ton, a ton, a ton, you know, about

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Speaker 1: what we need to implement, how we need to implement,

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Speaker 1: how we need to focus recruiting, how the bench should function,

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Speaker 1: how my offense should function, how our defens function, things

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Speaker 1: we need to work on, things that we need to remember,

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Speaker 1: places that places that we can improve, and the things

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Speaker 1: that we're doing right and things that work, things that work.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a lot, but it's I'm sure I'm

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Speaker 1: going to look back in a couple of years and

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Speaker 1: be like, that was the best thing that ever happened

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Speaker 1: to me, best thing, And it didn't happen to me.

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Speaker 1: It happens to us, and I think it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating exercise this first year getting the job late,

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Speaker 1: choosing to take the best kids possible and and not

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Speaker 1: and choosing not to cut any steps in. And we're

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Speaker 1: not doing any shortcuts or we're just going to keep grinding,

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Speaker 1: keep getting.

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Speaker 3: Better, be shortcuts. Live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show

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Speaker 3: weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports

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Speaker 3: Radio and the iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: App Let's get to a guy that has also built

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Speaker 1: and I make no bones about it, we're going to

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Speaker 1: play them the next three years as well. But when

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Speaker 1: I got the job and I saw the parts of

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Speaker 1: our schedule that were already laid out for me, I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, yo, yeah, yah, yeah, yeah, yo, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Johnny Towers, the head coach of Saint Thomas. I've watched

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Speaker 1: him grow his program as a Division III juggernaut to

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Speaker 1: now I think a Division I juggernaut, and we didn't

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Speaker 1: want to play him out of respect for what they

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Speaker 1: do and how they do it. It's not there's some

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Speaker 1: aspects of Princeton in terms of two Guard, but they

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Speaker 1: just know who they are. They find the right kids.

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Speaker 1: They developed them and they play as a t and

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Speaker 1: it's a beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Thing to watch.

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Speaker 1: And they can play fast and they can play slow,

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Speaker 1: and they're tougher than all get out. And when you

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Speaker 1: watch them play, how many of you watched them play

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Speaker 1: in some of these by games, you're like, there, why

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Speaker 1: would anybody play Saint Thomas? And the reason I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to play them, the reason I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: play them was because when you beat them, if you

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Speaker 1: beat them, people say, if you beat some nobody, I know,

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Speaker 1: people in the sport know, let's take out nobody. You

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Speaker 1: beat somebody, who are they still a Division three team?

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Speaker 1: People in the sport know how good they are. People

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Speaker 1: outside of the sport look at and go like, who's

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Speaker 1: Saint Thomas. If you lose to them, which we did

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Speaker 1: this year, people think you got beat by somebody they've

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Speaker 1: never heard of. So it's out of respect that I

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Speaker 1: use this to pick his brain on his journey and

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Speaker 1: his program. Let's catch up with the head coach of

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Speaker 1: the first it's a place in the seven League, Saint Thomas,

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Speaker 1: Tommy's here's Johnny Tower. Why do you go to Saint

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Speaker 1: Thomas to play?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: What was take me through that decision.

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Speaker 4: You know, I grew up two miles from campus. It was,

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Speaker 4: you know, I went to a Catholic high school. It's

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Speaker 4: a Catholic university in Saint Paul. My dad had gone there,

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Speaker 4: and those were not reasons I went there. It was

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Speaker 4: a really good basketball school, really good academic school. My dream,

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Speaker 4: honestly was go to Princeton and play. I had watched

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Speaker 4: them a lot in the late eighties and the early nineties,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not so sure Princeton was interested in me

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Speaker 4: as I was in them. So I ended up, you know,

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Speaker 4: playing Division III basketball, and I just felt like Saint

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Speaker 4: Thomas I had a really good sense I was going

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Speaker 4: to be happy there. I knew it was a really

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Speaker 4: it was a really good school, great basketball program, and

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Speaker 4: just felt like the values the program. Coach Fritz, who

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Speaker 4: recruited me, was a guy that you know, I thought

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Speaker 4: I'd enjoyed playing for. So it was it was one

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Speaker 4: of those things you don't know anything when you're eighteen, right,

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Speaker 4: You're trying to figure the world out. But it just

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Speaker 4: felt like a really special place and obvious it's worked

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Speaker 4: out really really well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what how did you guys how did he coach?

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Speaker 1: What was his style?

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Speaker 4: Coach was old school. He was the when he graduated

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Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy one, he was the all time leading scorer.

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Speaker 4: He was a post player, you know, never shout outside

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Speaker 4: of two feet two thousand points a thousand rebounds. He

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Speaker 4: liked to joke that they made the three point line

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Speaker 4: for me on offense or defense, that I never went

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Speaker 4: inside that are kind of either side of the lane

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Speaker 4: or either side of the court, which probably isn't far

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Speaker 4: from the truth. But he was, you know what I

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Speaker 4: always say, I learned so much from him. He majored

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Speaker 4: on the majors. You know, he grew up in a

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Speaker 4: different era, and it was just kind of no nonsense,

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Speaker 4: and you better take care of the ball, you better

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Speaker 4: be unselfish, and you better guards as well as you

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Speaker 4: humanly could, which for me was not that great, but

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Speaker 4: I sure tried. And those three things have always stuck

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Speaker 4: with me, Like, if you forget everything else, major on

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Speaker 4: those three majors, and you'll probably have a chance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. We talked to argue, you know, three things,

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Speaker 1: value the ball, guard the ball, rebound the ball. It

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Speaker 1: seems it seems so easy.

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Speaker 4: Well, in all the other minutia we can get into

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Speaker 4: his coaches and be curious about and we all love coaching.

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Speaker 4: Those details and how do you get a little winning

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Speaker 4: edge here there? But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: to your point, like if you turn the ball over

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Speaker 4: and you take bad shots and you don't defend or rebound,

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Speaker 4: you got no chance. And so those were some of

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Speaker 4: the things that coach he really he made a strong

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Speaker 4: impact on me in those voices.

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Speaker 1: Uh, okay, So was he as analytical and data driven

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Speaker 1: as you are? Like what I played for Eddie Sutton

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Speaker 1: and John McLeod and heck, I mean neither of them

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Speaker 1: ever drew on a whiteboard in terms of drawing up

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Speaker 1: a play like that wasn't there was no like at

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Speaker 1: os we did two for ones, like there's so much

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Speaker 1: we didn't do well at oakleom to say. We won

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Speaker 1: a lot of games, so there is a certain methodology

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Speaker 1: to it. What was what was he like?

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Speaker 4: You know, that's a that's an interesting question. I'd say

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Speaker 4: he was. I still remember as a freshman he was

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Speaker 4: not overly into analytics.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: When I went into psychology, he always jokingly called it

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Speaker 4: psychological BS because it was a different error, right, where

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Speaker 4: like you didn't talk about your feelings. You weren't. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it was just go out there and do your thing.

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Speaker 4: And he was so I but I remember as a

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Speaker 4: freshman he went up to the chalkboard, it wasn't even

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Speaker 4: a whiteboard, and he drew up sixty five possessions and

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Speaker 4: he basically said, look it, here's how many turnovers we

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Speaker 4: can have, here's how many shots we're going to get.

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Speaker 4: He broke down the four factors Dean Oliver's book Basketball

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Speaker 4: on Paper, and he didn't do it as in depth statistically,

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Speaker 4: but it was a very simplistic and very I think

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Speaker 4: elegant way of as an eighteen year old that made

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Speaker 4: a lot of sense to me, Like we get the

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Speaker 4: ball a certain amount of times, offensive rebound, steelis possessions,

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Speaker 4: turnovers giveaway possessions. Let me listen to my coach and

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Speaker 4: do what he's, you know, trying to get us to do.

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Speaker 4: And so I think in that sense he was ahead

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Speaker 4: of his time. But he was also I mean, he

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Speaker 4: was our athletic director as well. Before that he was

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Speaker 4: director of admissions and before that director of financial aid.

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Speaker 4: So coach Fritz was never a full time coach, so

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Speaker 4: he really, I mean he he looked at it like

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Speaker 4: from four to six pm we practiced. But it was

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Speaker 4: just a different era, right, I mean we didn't watch film.

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Speaker 4: We had one monitor that was a third of the

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Speaker 4: side of some by computer monitor. And so you know,

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Speaker 4: like you say, Coach McLeod, Coach Sutton, Coach Fritz, those guys,

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Speaker 4: I think it was just a different It was a

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Speaker 4: different era. But because we didn't have all the technology,

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Speaker 4: I think those guys were really really good at majoring

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Speaker 4: on the majors.

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Speaker 1: What did you when you went to college? What do

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Speaker 1: you think you wanted to do?

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Speaker 4: I you know, every aptitude test that ever took that

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Speaker 4: I should go into actuarial science. Unfortunately, wasn't that good verbally,

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Speaker 4: so I didn't even know what actuarial science was and

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Speaker 4: I never really found out. So I thought about finance.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people at Saint Thomas that business is

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Speaker 4: the most popular major, and honestly I was. I was

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Speaker 4: so clueless at the end of my sophomore year and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm going to take a psychology class, of

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Speaker 4: sociology class, and accounting class. And I was acing accounting.

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Speaker 4: I was acing sociology and I was getting a D

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Speaker 4: plus in psychology and I loved it. And so it

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Speaker 4: was one of those forks in the road where I'm like,

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Speaker 4: all right, everything I know says I should go into business.

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Speaker 4: That's what my dad does. I thought I could get

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Speaker 4: a good job in the Twin Cities. But I was

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Speaker 4: just like, I think I want to go into psychology.

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Speaker 4: And so I turned it around in that class, and

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Speaker 4: you know, I wanted to study motivation, and so I

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Speaker 4: ended up just being fascinated by what makes people tick.

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Speaker 4: Went to graduate school, got my PhD at the University

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Speaker 4: of Wisconsin, studying competition and intrinsic motivation. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of my coaching philosophy, you know, some of the stems

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Speaker 4: from the great coaches that I played for, and then

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Speaker 4: a lot of it stems from my research at the

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Speaker 4: University of Wisconsin and my grad advisor, Judy Herrick Kevitch,

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Speaker 4: who is just one of the most brilliant human beings

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Speaker 4: you could ever meet, and so kind of to marry

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Speaker 4: those two interests and passions. And here we are twenty

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Speaker 4: five years later, still coaching and not teaching right now.

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Speaker 4: But I taught for twenty one years at Saint Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always interesting me. I haven't brought that up

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Speaker 1: when people ass they asked by you know, like well

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Speaker 1: you have a radio job, you have like you do

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Speaker 1: realize that lots of coaches have had multiple hats, you know,

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Speaker 1: But I guess it's maybe the visibility of it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not really sure, but it's it's interesting. You know, what

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Speaker 1: do you hates? When my dad went to Ohio State,

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Speaker 1: dad favorite class he ever took what he haes taught

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Speaker 1: one classes semester. So, uh, it is interesting on how

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Speaker 1: the multi hats. Uh, somehow we've kind of gotten lost

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Speaker 1: on how that's I mean you you so when you

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Speaker 1: first came back after you got your pH.

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Speaker 4: Yeah PhD in social psychology?

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Speaker 1: How long did that take?

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Speaker 4: Five years?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 4: Why did I do that?

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Speaker 1: Why would you get a doctorate in psychology?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question is my I have three sons

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Speaker 4: and a daughter, and as they like to joke, yeah dad,

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Speaker 4: you're a doctor and not the kind that helps people.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Well, I knew I loved the life of professor. I

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Speaker 4: looked at my you know the old adage like what

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Speaker 4: you think you want to do, go look at somebody's

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Speaker 4: done it. For twenty years, and do you like their life?

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Speaker 4: Like if you scale this out? And I just looked

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Speaker 4: at professors and the chance to help other people, hopefully,

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Speaker 4: the autonomy of studying whatever it is you want to study,

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Speaker 4: the chance to teach and read and think, like literally

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Speaker 4: all summer long, what's your job to think and read

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Speaker 4: and talk to people? And so I just thought the

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Speaker 4: life of a professor seemed so wildly you know, creative

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Speaker 4: and curious. And I knew I wanted to coach someday,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't want to be just a coach where

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Speaker 4: you get to a point you're like, I don't know

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Speaker 4: if I have another tool in my toolbox. And so

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Speaker 4: probably today analytics, I probably would have gone and got

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Speaker 4: a PhD. And statistics, you know, given today in the

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Speaker 4: way that the environment shifted. But I just I love

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Speaker 4: social psychology. I mean it's sort of like I don't

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Speaker 4: know if you're a Seinfeld fan or curb your enthusiasm

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Speaker 4: anything like that, but I describe it like that, like

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Speaker 4: social psychologists scientifically studying things that sign felt covered. I

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Speaker 4: always joke I want to teach a class called social scientology,

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Speaker 4: and my students would get so tired of me showing

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Speaker 4: Seinfeldt clips and they started dating me a little bit.

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Speaker 4: But that, you know, that's life, and it's what we

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Speaker 4: do as coaches though. It's how you build teams collectively,

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Speaker 4: how you motivate individuals, and so, you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if that's a great answer, because yeah, I was

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Speaker 4: broke from age twenty two to twenty seven. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you're not making any money as a teaching assistant and

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Speaker 4: you're taking out debt and you're hoping to get a

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Speaker 4: job that you're applying where one hundred other PhDs are

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Speaker 4: going for the same job in academia. So I don't

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Speaker 4: know if it was the smartest rational decision, but I

415
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Speaker 4: just knew it was something I was passionate about. And

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Speaker 4: to my parents' credit, I think they probably thought I

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Speaker 4: should have done something else, and we had some heart

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Speaker 4: to hearts, and I remember my mom and dad. My

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Speaker 4: dad was just kind of, well, if you're convinced this

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Speaker 4: is it for you, better work your butt off, because

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Speaker 4: you know, if you're if you're great at something, you'll

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Speaker 4: probably always find a job. But if you're not, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you major in psychology, you could end up, you know,

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Speaker 4: not ending up in the field of psychology.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: So how did it come to be? I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go back to my own modern coach basketball.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was really a fluke. So I in

429
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Speaker 4: ninety eight, I wasn't near done with my doctorate and

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Speaker 4: one of my mentors at Saint Thomas, a guy by

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Speaker 4: the name of Ward Winton, was a social psych professor

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Speaker 4: of mine, and he passed away unexpectedly. And so it's

433
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Speaker 4: not like you just say, oh, I'm a psych guy,

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Speaker 4: I want a job back in my alma mater, like

435
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Speaker 4: I'm a social psychologist. He was a social psychologist. All

436
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Speaker 4: of a sudden, there's a position. So I applied and

437
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 4: I did not hear back from They had no interest

438
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 4: in me, nor should they have, because I wasn't close

439
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 4: to being down with my PhD. And so I kind

440
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: of moved my attention somewhere else. And turns out somebody

441
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 4: backed out on the job. They ended up posting it

442
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 4: again the next year. I ended up getting it. I interviewed.

443
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 4: It wasn't a tenure track job at the time, so

444
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 4: I thought I'd be there five years, and they turned

445
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 4: it into a tenure track job, and along the way,

446
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 4: I started volunteering as a coach, and so I was

447
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 4: an assistant for eleven years while I was a full

448
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: time professor. It was teaching, research committee work coaching, and

449
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: it was, you know, it was like doing two full

450
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: time jobs at once, much like you're doing now. And

451
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 4: there are a lot of days you didn't know left

452
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 4: from writing up from down and I'm confusing scouting reports

453
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 4: with research papers. But it really was one of those

454
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 4: eleven year spans in my life where I look back

455
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I couldn't do it now. And maybe

456
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 4: that just makes me a lot older, but I think

457
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 4: back to that eleven year window and it was unbelievable

458
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 4: in terms of how much I learned, and that probably

459
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 4: how many hours I put in. But it also I

460
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 4: think helped prepare me for you know, what I'm doing now.

461
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb

462
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox

463
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 3: Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

464
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: How did you guys play when you're an assistant? How

465
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: did you guys play in comparison to how your teams

466
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: play now?

467
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 4: No coach was he? I mean, you know, and you

468
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 4: got to remember the guys who were coaching in the

469
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 4: seventies eighties. The three point line wasn't around right, and

470
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 4: he was I think he was pretty flexible in terms

471
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 4: of adapting to the three point line. I'd say we

472
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: played slower, and then in about two thousand and seven

473
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 4: we started playing faster. In fact, it happens a fluke.

474
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: You've had games like this. We're playing Wenona State, who

475
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 4: was the they won two out of three D two

476
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: national championships, and we had a young team and we

477
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: went down there and they ended up going thirty eight

478
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 4: and won that year. In eight they won the national title.

479
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: The only game they lost was to Division three Saint Thomas,

480
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 4: and we pressed at the end of the game. We

481
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 4: were down ten with two minutes left. We ended up

482
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: miraculously winning an overtime, and I remember talking to coach

483
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 4: Fritz the next day and he's like, you think we

484
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 4: should press more often? And that's sort of when we

485
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 4: started pressing. And there have been different iterations. I would

486
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 4: say that was probably a turning point. Offensively, I'd say

487
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 4: we went more to this system. We started running a

488
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 4: lot of two guard offense. Back in five I was

489
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,719
Speaker 4: a young assistant. He allowed me to run the offense

490
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 4: and coach Bee lines teams at West Virginia just caught

491
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 4: my eye and I was like, that's how I want

492
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 4: us to play, that's what And coach Maker, who's my

493
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 4: associate head coach. Now, he was an assistant coach on

494
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 4: those B line teams. So it's a crazy story because

495
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 4: he and I didn't know each other at all, and

496
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 4: yet here I'm watching them in the sweet sixteen and

497
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 4: Pittsnagle and Gansey and I'm like, that is beautiful basketball.

498
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 4: And over the years he and I became friends. His

499
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 4: wife and my wife ironically graduated from Little Saint Olaf

500
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 4: College in Northfield, Minnesota together the same year. So like

501
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: there's all these connections, and they move back here. After

502
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 4: he left Marist, we got kicked out of our conference.

503
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: We jumped from D three to D one, and before

504
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 4: you know, he and I are having coffee as we

505
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: did quite a bit and more like, maybe you guys

506
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 4: aren't moving, maybe you'll just stick around here. And so

507
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 4: I think our offense has evolved over the years, but

508
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 4: I've just always wanted to play fast, free, up tempo

509
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 4: a lot of guys and be really efficient and those

510
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 4: are all not easy things to do, but over the years,

511
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 4: I think we've just developed kind of a culture and

512
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 4: probably an understanding of the players that allow us.

513
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 1: To do that. What's this movement like, moving to Division

514
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: one from Division three?

515
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 4: It's been wild. I mean, you know, for years, my

516
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: buddies would say, don't you ever want to coach Division one?

517
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: And I certainly wasn't against it, but I was also like, hey,

518
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 4: I'm up my alma mater. We're winning a lot of games.

519
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: It's a school I love, my parents come to every game,

520
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 4: we got young kids. There were just so many compelling

521
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 4: reasons that I wasn't just going to go do it

522
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 4: for a label of Division one. And I thought we

523
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 4: had really really good players that I loved coaching. But

524
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 4: this has been really it's been really fun, really cool

525
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 4: at this point in my career, knowing that, you know,

526
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: we had a stretch in there, I think we won

527
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: twelve straight conference titles, two national titles, and then all

528
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: of a sudden, we go from that to being the

529
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 4: underdog pretty much probably every single game in our first

530
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: year and starting five Division three players former Division three players.

531
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: So year one was very much a baptism by fire

532
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 4: and how can we just be competitive? And every game

533
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 4: we won was like winning the Super Bowl.

534
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: You know.

535
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: We won ten games that year. The next year we

536
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: still started four former D three guys, and so I

537
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: think we've had this progression over four years where we

538
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 4: went from ten wins to nineteen to twenty and now

539
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 4: this year we're fourteen and five. But it's also been

540
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 4: a I think a great pressure test of our culture.

541
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: I always talk about that first year, and we did

542
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: some really cool things. We led the country in fewest turnovers.

543
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 4: We almost broke the all time record for fewest turnovers

544
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: in the history of college basketball. And that was nothing

545
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 4: we did on offense. Is just our guys being acutely

546
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 4: aware that they better not turn the ball over. We're

547
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 4: going to lose by forty and they knew it. We

548
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 4: knew it. But I think we also lost twelve straight

549
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 4: games that year. So when you think about that that year,

550
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 4: to me, I look back with gratitude might not be

551
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: the right word, but I do think we were fortunate

552
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 4: that we had all these guys who had lost eight

553
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 4: total games in three years of Division III basketball, and

554
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 4: here they go losing twelve straight games, and never once

555
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 4: did I worry about our locker room fracturing. Never did

556
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 4: I think what are they going to do if we

557
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 4: lose another game. Nobody was happy, nobody accepted it, but

558
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: it was the kind of thing where it's like, this

559
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: is who we are and this is the team we're

560
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: blessed to have this journey with, and so I just

561
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 4: I'll always look back, Doug on those guys, and you know,

562
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 4: there were nine of them that first year who would

563
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 4: jump from D three to D one, and they went

564
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 4: from thinking our goal is to win a national title

565
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 4: and we were ranked in the top five in the

566
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 4: country three straight years to COVID ending a year, COVID

567
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 4: wiping out the next year in Division three completely, and

568
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: then boom, they're plopped in Division one. And instead of

569
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 4: looking at that like what are we going to do here,

570
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: they were like, Okay, let's make this the coolest opportunity.

571
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 4: None of us dreamed to play in Division one. Let's

572
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: go do it. And so that's a long, winted answer,

573
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: but it has been a wild journey, and I think

574
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: we're really excited at Saint Thomas about where we're at

575
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: and what we're building.

576
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: So there is hope when you lose a bunch of

577
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: rope that's good, that.

578
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 4: Wouldn't do honestly, and that it was hard. Don't get

579
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 4: me wrong, I got an ulcer that year. I had vertigo,

580
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 4: and that's the truth. You can ask my wife. Like

581
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 4: the months of January and February, I was hanging on

582
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 4: because it was like you're just you're doing everything you

583
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 4: can to win, and you have perspective like we were underdogs.

584
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: We all knew it. But yeah, there was a night

585
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 4: in South Dakota I couldn't stand up in my hotel room.

586
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: It was like the room's spinning, and I'm like, what's

587
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 4: going on? I developed an ulcer. I mean it was

588
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 4: it was a rough year that way, and yet you know,

589
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 4: you try to step back and have perspective like, Okay,

590
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: this is basketball. It's a game, and I'm coaching kids

591
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 4: who are all in. It's not like they're not trying.

592
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: They're trying with everything I have. And we ended up

593
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: winning that year, the last two out of three after

594
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 4: that twelve game losing streak, and so that was just

595
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: you know something where Senior Day, it was one of

596
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: the most memorable senior days ever. It was packed house

597
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: and these kids who had been through so much for

598
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 4: four and five years. I mean, none of them were

599
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: on scholarship. That first year, we had two kids on

600
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 4: scholarship the whole team, and they were our ninth and

601
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 4: tenth man, and so nobody's on scholarship. And here we

602
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 4: are on senior night with some of them brad students

603
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 4: who came back for a fifth year to pay their

604
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: own tuition to play Division one basketball and take red classes,

605
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 4: and they're getting a standing ovation. And we ended up

606
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: winning that night. And so it was one of those

607
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 4: things like you know, you the journey, and I could

608
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 4: go on and on because that year was one I

609
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 4: hope we never lose twelve straight games. But I will

610
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 4: tell you that, in many ways is the most confident

611
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 4: I've ever been in our culture. Knowing the guys who

612
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: were there, they were bought in, and I think, you guys,

613
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 4: you're going to see that over time. You really are.

614
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, there's no question. I mean, I had

615
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: we sent our group to read in elementary school two

616
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: days ago, and I got like three teachers texted me

617
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: and like, your kids are incredible, and I was like, yeah,

618
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: we we got a trimmed a little fat, and we

619
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: got we only got good ones, you know, and it's

620
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: it's not enjoyable to lose. But guys that are in

621
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: on the way you want to do it and for

622
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: them to still feel like like we've had good practices

623
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: where you where check it on them morale and they

624
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: all think, hey, we can actually be pretty good at

625
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: this thing. Now that we got some of the stuff

626
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: figured out. We've made some additions. We made so much

627
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: subtractions and the overall energy and focuses is good. You know.

628
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I went to the Bucks Magic game last night,

629
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: and you know, in the media the other job, right,

630
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: there's this narrative that the reason people aren't watching the

631
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: NBA as much is because they shoot so many threes.

632
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: And I kind of find that comical. And I'll tell

633
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: you why. We're about to say Major a little older

634
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: than me. I grew up watching basketball, and I can

635
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: tell you that no one watched that much NBA back

636
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: then because it wasn't on really as often. But if

637
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: you go back and watch, it's not like regular season

638
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 1: NBA was all that gould to watch, you know. I mean,

639
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I like a good post move,

640
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: but throwing it into pat Ewing and he gets double

641
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: teamed and he passed to pass the pass it one

642
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 1: more around the perimeter and somebody shoots, or you throw

643
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: back into Patchwing and he shoots a fade away Like.

644
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that's actually pretty a ball as guys

645
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: are playing now. I think there's other factors as to

646
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: why people aren't watching, mostly just a proliferation of the

647
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: sport on TV. It's always on, it's everywhere. There's nothing

648
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: special about it. Let me get your perspective, because you

649
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: don't you run B line stuff, but you have your

650
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: own twist on it. You have maker stuff to it.

651
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: There is a value in the three point shot. You

652
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: like so many people, You guys don't value the middies

653
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 1: neither do we? Uh? What what are you? What are

654
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: your thoughts on how the trends in basketball and where

655
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: things are going?

656
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it's a fascinating question. I get in a

657
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: lot of arguments my but my buddy is our cohort,

658
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: and they'll talk about, oh, there's no defense in the NBA,

659
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 4: and it's say, well, it's hard to answer that question

660
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 4: because the spacing is so ridiculous. That I read the

661
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: other day a good article and said, you know, part

662
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: of it. If there's a problem with the NNBA, part

663
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 4: of the problem is they've cracked the code right in

664
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: terms of geometry and spacing and having one or two

665
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 4: guys who are so incredible with the basketball, how are

666
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 4: you going to guard that? Right? So if you superimpose,

667
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 4: and I don't know how you do this, but let's

668
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: take the Bulls in the nineties when they won six titles,

669
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 4: and you have them guard the Warriors from twenty sixteen

670
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, I don't know. Curry's coming down the floor

671
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 4: at twenty eight thirty feet pulling. Well, that's going to

672
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: change your defense. Right. When I was in grad school

673
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: at Wisconsin, I was so fortunate Dick Bennett. Those were

674
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: the five years he was there, so I got to

675
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 4: watch him put in, you know, drill after drill transition defense.

676
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: I still thought the years he was there was unbelievable

677
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: because they were not the most talented team by any stretch.

678
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 4: They made it to the Final four in two thousand

679
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 4: and they've been to the tourney twice in fifty years

680
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 4: at Wisconsin, and they went three out of his five years,

681
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 4: and people were complaining they didn't love the style. I'm

682
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 4: sitting there like, Okay, you've been to the tournament twice

683
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 4: in fifty years, you've been there three out of five.

684
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 4: Now do you like winning? But I think back to

685
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 4: those transition drills, and it was what get ten feet

686
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 4: in the paint and then fan out and guard people. Well,

687
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 4: if you did that today, you'd give up one hundred

688
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 4: and fifty points. And so I love how basketball looks today.

689
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 4: I think the creativity, the skill set, the spacing, it's

690
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: really impressive. I do think at some point they may

691
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: need to move the NBA line back if you want

692
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: to have a little bit more balanced, because there is

693
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 4: a there is an element where you shouldn't shoot mid

694
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 4: range twos unless they're wide open and it's probably your

695
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 4: best player and it's probably late shot clock. Like other

696
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 4: than that, why would you ever do that if you've

697
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 4: got three leech shooters who can who can all shoot

698
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 4: at forty percent? So I love watching the game. I

699
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 4: do think this wouldn't be popular because you'd have to

700
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 4: widen the floor too. But I think if the arc

701
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 4: or twenty five or twenty six feet in the NBA,

702
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 4: that would that would bring back an element of critical

703
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: thinking in terms of what's a good two versus a

704
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 4: lousy three, and how you compare those two, because I

705
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: think a lot of NBA teams would say lousy threes

706
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 4: from our best players are fine, will take them. See.

707
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: I think the number one way to change it is

708
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: to actually call fouls in the low post the way

709
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: they call the fouls and the perimeter, you know, I

710
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: mean it's to me, I compare it in the football

711
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: sense of you know, the reason that running backs wear

712
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: down so much is they haven't changed any of the

713
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: rules on hitting running backs when you hit them the ball.

714
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: But the quarterback you can't hit n ar below, can't

715
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: hit necker above, can't ever touch your helmet, you know.

716
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: And once they throw the ball, you have like a

717
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: half second. You can't touch them. You can't throw them

718
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: to the ground right and then wide receivers five yards

719
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: you can't touch him, can't hit them when they're when

720
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: they're defenseless, et cetera. Such running backs nothing changed. Well,

721
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: if you watch the NBA game, even you watch the

722
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: college game, in the low post, if you're posting up,

723
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: you can get away with a whole lot more than

724
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: if you're facing up. And that's by design right.

725
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: It was.

726
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: It was to bring back a freedom of movement in

727
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: the NBA and make it more watchable. If they really

728
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: want postplay to return, they got to get back to

729
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: calling actual fouls in the post. I like that that

730
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: becomes the march to the free throw line.

731
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's what we want right Well,

732
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 4: you saw last night probably Fordham and UMass. I think

733
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 4: they shot one hundred and twenty some free throws. No,

734
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: it's triple overtime, seventy nine files. I'll tell you the

735
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 4: other thing that really bothers me, and it's hard, this

736
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 4: is subjective, but I think we reward how to control

737
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 4: ball handlers who are initiating right late in the game

738
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: with teams putting their head down driving it. And so

739
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: that to me too is where we You know, we

740
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 4: talk about rhythm, speed, balance, quickness, and any of those

741
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 4: are interrupted to following the defense. But I just see

742
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: a lot of auto control ball hands who are rewarded

743
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: for initiating contact and then throwing a shot up.

744
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, I've seen that. I've seen all ends of it.

745
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: I also it's just amazing, like what is a foul

746
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: and then when the ball goes up. Obviously we struggle

747
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: rebound the ball, but I mean what people are able

748
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: to get away with just in rebound it. There are

749
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: no rules. I tell our guys all the time, like, listen,

750
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: there are no rules, literally, just the rules. Go get

751
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: the ball. Don't care, go get the ball.

752
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 4: Our rebounding struggles we probably mirror each other a little bit.

753
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 4: Neither one of us has a huge team. I stopped

754
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 4: practice today and one of our kids got called for

755
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 4: a file on a defensive rebound and he was kind

756
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 4: of debating it with one of our young assistants. I

757
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 4: was like, hold on, I would love to see us

758
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 4: get called for a foul on a defensive rebound. SI

759
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 4: just hit somebody box out hard enough, because you're right,

760
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: it becomes, I hate to say, like football, but when

761
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 4: it does become like football, it becomes a big advantage

762
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: for the teams that have got the size and the weight.

763
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 4: And that's not your team or our team.

764
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: No, how do you handle the portal.

765
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: You've benefited some from it, you know, bringing a really

766
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: talented Division two All American up, but then you've lost guys.

767
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: You know you had a couple of years ago, you

768
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: had a really talented freshman you lost to a high major.

769
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on the portal transferring without sitting

770
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: out and how that's affecting your program specifically.

771
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that where we're going

772
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: to put that genie back in the bottle. I do

773
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 4: think if they forced people to sit out for a year,

774
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 4: it would actually fix a lot of things. Right the

775
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: nil that stuff's not going away, and there's some good

776
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 4: things about it, certainly, but it would require people to

777
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 4: really recruit the right kids and evaluate the right kids

778
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 4: rather than you know, you look at the Horizon League

779
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 4: where you are, the Summit League where we are a

780
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 4: lot of the All conference kids every year just jump

781
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 4: because they sort of think that's what I should do.

782
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: And sometimes it's the right thing. Sometimes you end up

783
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: not playing very much, you end up in a bad

784
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 4: fits to them. I mean, it's there's a lot of

785
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 4: risks to it.

786
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: And so.

787
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: We we've been I mean we've been fortunate. We've only

788
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 4: lost two out of our twenty three undergrads the last

789
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 4: two years total. One of them was aner rody to Virginia,

790
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: and so I think we're I think typically we're going

791
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 4: to stay recruiting a lot of high school kids, but

792
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 4: it is the reality that you're going to lose kids,

793
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 4: and sometimes you're going to lose them unexpectedly. And that's

794
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 4: why to me, I don't I don't think any of

795
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 4: us have the answers, but trying to build it with

796
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 4: kids who really want to be at your school for

797
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 4: the right reasons, and that you got to sif that

798
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 4: out in the recruiting. You know, battles where sometimes you

799
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: got a kid here who's a little more talented than

800
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: this kid. But if this kid is dying to be

801
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 4: at Saint Thomas and I think he's going to be

802
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: here four years, that carries a lot of weight to me,

803
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 4: you know that. I think in this era, I think

804
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 4: every kid has in the back of their minds someday

805
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 4: I may transfer. I don't know that we had that

806
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 4: in our r or we went to school like that.

807
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: You didn't think that like that that way. And then

808
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 4: I think selling not selling, but you know, finding the

809
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 4: right fit where kids are looking at in this case

810
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 4: Saint Thomas saying this basketball program, the journey you're on,

811
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 4: the academics, the location, the alumni network, the opportunities I have,

812
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 4: those are all reasons I want to come here, so

813
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: if something's hard, they're not just going to transfer because

814
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: it's tough. Because honestly, in D three, it was easy

815
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 4: for me to tell guys like, hey, the freshman, Doug,

816
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 4: if you're good enough, you'll play. Most freshmen don't, but

817
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 4: you will if you're good enough. As a sophomore, I

818
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: think you're going to be, you know, playing a lot,

819
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 4: but as a junior and senior, you're going to be

820
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 4: one of the best guards in the country at our level.

821
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 4: And to me, that was always a nice way of

822
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 4: framing up. Here's going to be your development over the

823
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 4: course of four years, and I think that's more challenging

824
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 4: to do, certainly for all of us in the Portal era.

825
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: I agree. You know, it's it's you know, we we

826
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: have freshmen, and you're like, you're really excited about incoming freshmen,

827
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: but the reality is one of the reasons we're strugglings.

828
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: We have too many freshman and it's like, hey, you

829
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: guys are great, but I gotta go get some old,

830
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: older kids too. You guys just played South Dakota and

831
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: I know they pressed and they run and they trap,

832
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: and you guys scored one hundred and nineteen points. What

833
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: was that like? To coach?

834
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 4: It was crazy. I mean because we you know, we

835
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: like to get up and down, but we're not. I

836
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 4: wouldn't say we're frenetic. I think we'd like to play fast.

837
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 4: It was Mayormember. At one point, looking up at the clock,

838
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 4: I'm like, Dad, we got ninety points. We're scoring all

839
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: and there were still ten minutes left in the game.

840
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 4: I mean it was it was unlike any game. And

841
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: they play really fast, but they're also not playing Grinnelle.

842
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 4: I mean they're just they're playing up tempo. And both

843
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 4: teams shot it unbelievably. I mean halftime was sixty to

844
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 4: fifty one, and I felt like we were playing decent defense.

845
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 4: I think both teams. I think both teams for the

846
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 4: game shot over fifty percent on threes. There were a

847
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 4: lot of fouls called. We went thirty five or forty

848
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 4: one from the line. So it was it was a

849
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 4: crazy game. Give up one hundred and four points and

850
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 4: I didn't walk out. We didn't play great defense, but

851
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 4: we also didn't play horrible defense of it. I do

852
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: feel like the trickle down to the NBA, just the spacing,

853
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: the number of shooters that people are putting on the floor.

854
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 4: I know in the Summit League our games, I feel

855
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 4: like this year and when we're for four games in,

856
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 4: but I feel like the numbers people are putting up

857
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 4: are higher scoring than in the past, and I think,

858
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of factors to that. But

859
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 4: it was, yeah, I don't know. I don't know we've

860
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 4: ever given up one hundred regulation win or lose, to

861
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 4: be honest with you. In fact, my old head coach,

862
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: coach Fritz, we were talking about earlier, texted me right

863
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 4: after the games that you know, I always loved an

864
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 4: old defensive battle because he would that would have he

865
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 4: would not he looked up and you know he was

866
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 4: coaching before there was a shot clock. If he looked

867
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 4: up and was sixty to fifty one, that was a

868
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 4: good final score. Like we held people of fifty one

869
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 4: for the game. We won sixty to fifty one, an

870
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 4: old smash moulk game. That was a good game.

871
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So now I get really difficult as you go

872
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: to Omaha and it's like a crutches got a really

873
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: interesting team. They went through a stretch for they lost.

874
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: I think they lost like nine of eleven or something,

875
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: I mean something terrible. Right, Yeah, it's nine of eleven

876
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: and now they've they've turned around and you know, only

877
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: one D three. But outside of that, I think they've

878
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: won seven to zerw including beating Denver, beat Kansas City,

879
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: beat South Dakota State. What what's your temperature on the

880
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: Summer League? This is the first place showdown you guys

881
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: got on the road in Omaha. But what's the Summit

882
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: League like this year?

883
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting because and we played denverron Saturday,

884
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 4: so before we play Omaha's got to buy before we

885
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 4: play them. We played Denver on Saturday. But yeah, if

886
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 4: you had said before the year, I mean Omaha beat

887
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 4: both US and Omaha were in North Dakota and we

888
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: swept North Dakota and North Dakota State that first weekend

889
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 4: in North Dakota State. Both of them are good, but

890
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 4: North Akota State has been Their offensive numbers are like

891
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 4: a video game right now, and they're really really good.

892
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 4: And then both of us we're able to beat celt

893
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 4: Dakota State at home. So No, Crutch is a great team.

894
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 4: They got a balance of really tough, strong veteran front court, guys,

895
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: and they've got good guards who can shoot it. So

896
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: they got they got a really nice mix and they're tough.

897
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 4: They kind of got his personality where they're just they

898
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 4: go out there and compete. I watched them last night,

899
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: the whole game against Denver, and they just it's not flashy,

900
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, you look and they're up twenty.

901
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 4: So he's got a really nice team. Celtdakota State. North

902
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 4: Dakota State have been the perennial powers along with Oral Roberts,

903
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 4: and so it's going to be I think a pretty

904
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 4: wild race. I mean, it's fun to be at this

905
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 4: spot four games in, but like I tell our guys,

906
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 4: I mean it's you know, anybody who starts paying attention

907
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: to the standings before the season's done, you're kind of

908
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 4: missing the mark, Like we don't control the standings anything

909
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 4: like that and sounds cliche, but you better take it

910
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 4: a day at a time or you're gonna lose a

911
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 4: lot of games.

912
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: Isn't the big fight in the league to get the

913
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: tournament out of the dakotas.

914
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: Well? Some might the Dakotas might say, no, that's not

915
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 4: a fight at all. Just keep it there, I think.

916
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 4: I mean, hey, it's a big advantage. We played there

917
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 4: last year yourself to go to State in the Semis

918
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: and they were the top seed. We were the four seed.

919
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 4: And you know, there's ten thousand people there in nine,

920
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 4: nine hundred and eighty of them are Jack Rabbit fans,

921
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: and you know that's where the league headquarters is that

922
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 4: we draw. Well, it's a it is a great event.

923
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 4: So I think there's a healthy tension between It's one

924
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 4: of the most highly attended, maybe the most highly attended,

925
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 4: you know, mid major. But it's a decided advantage for

926
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 4: you know, two or three schools without question, and so

927
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 4: I don't you know, I don't know where that ends

928
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 4: up going. But we're new to the league. I just

929
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 4: I try and go along with just about everything and

930
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: just heay, we're happy to be here.

931
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I called my LEGE commissioner about about

932
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: an officiating deal a week and a half ago, and

933
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: I like, I didn't I don't know when the time

934
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: is to call, when the time is not to call.

935
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, hey, I don't want to be

936
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: just ticky wheel here, but it's fun talking about something here.

937
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: And Julie was great. She was like, now you're got

938
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: to stick you like central call all the time. I

939
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's like she's like, don't call, don't

940
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: call the time. Yeah, a new guy. You just kind

941
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: of tread tread lightly cold it game that you've ever

942
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: coached in, like where you like got out the bus

943
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: or gott a can be at home in Saint Paul

944
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: or now obviously in the Dakota's are back even the

945
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: D three day.

946
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 4: D three days, well any time. I don't think I've

947
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 4: ever gone to North Dakota where it's nice, Like even

948
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 4: when we played there three weeks ago, it's like it

949
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 4: looks like it's going to be decent there. I'm telling

950
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 4: the players, I've never seen it. We get to Grand Forks,

951
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 4: that's like negative ten, but I remember so Concordium Warhead

952
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 4: in our old conference that's right across the border in Minnesota,

953
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 4: Fargo Moorhead, and we got snowed in. I remember, you

954
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 4: know where it's negative twenty. There's fifteen inches of snow

955
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 4: coming down, so we couldn't we couldn't get out of town.

956
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 4: I think the game was postponed today, and you're just

957
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 4: you're kind of trapped in more Head Minnesota, so that

958
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 4: would that would be the one I remember most vividly

959
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 4: my I think it was my freshman year at college.

960
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 4: It was twenty twenty below well I think it was

961
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 4: probably twenty below but more and it was a snowstorm,

962
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 4: so we were literally trapped, you know, trapped.

963
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what twenty below in the

964
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: snowstorm be. I will tell you that we have had

965
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: very little snow here in Green Bay, very little, and

966
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: it does it feels being being cold without snow. Is

967
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of dry humping, Like what's the point.

968
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: I don't really I don't enjoy I don't necessarily enjoy cold, period.

969
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: But when it's cold and there's no snow, now, now

970
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: you just make me mad.

971
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 4: There's no in February. Are tough when there's no snow,

972
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 4: I would agree with. Do you get a nice little

973
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 4: cover on everything? And it looks I mean esthetically, it

974
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 4: looks pleasing like our campus is beautiful. You take a

975
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 4: picture when there's some snow there, it's even I think

976
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 4: more beautiful. But yeah, January, we got to get through

977
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 4: to it. And basketball season makes it a lot more palatable, right,

978
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I look at it I didn't coach junior

979
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 4: and fed war would get really long, and instead you're

980
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 4: hardly coming up for oxygen and you know Marsh will

981
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 4: be here.

982
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, my daughter's at Oaklhom State and she she's like,

983
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's really cold, Like what's it? Like? I said, honestly,

984
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: I I have a heated garage. I turn on my

985
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: car before I'm like from my bedroom, like make sure

986
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: my car I am so soft.

987
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: And then I have a like an.

988
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: Arrangement with school security where when it gets cold, I'm

989
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: parking by the loading dock because it's like seventy two

990
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: steps from my parking spot and it's seven steps from

991
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: the loading docks. I did seven step today, so like

992
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: fourteen steps total I can handle. You know, that's not

993
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: that bad. But and yeah, you're in the gym the

994
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: whole time. You're like, hey, it's sixty eight degrees. That's

995
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: why I tell recruits all the time. You know, the

996
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: weather here in the winter, sixty eight in the locker room,

997
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 1: sixty in the weight room, sixty eight in the gym.

998
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: So it's sixty eight degrees every day, every single day. Well,

999
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: what about you, You've been doing this a long time

1000
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: you've obviously transitioned to Division one, and now you guys

1001
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: have a chance. I do think the Division one transition

1002
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: rules radict because you should be eligible to be in

1003
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: the tournament. I think you know what you should you

1004
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: your first year, maybe not, but after that, Like, what

1005
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: are we actually doing here? I don't understand. I don't

1006
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: understand do we why have rules? If you can pay players,

1007
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: why do we have all these other rules? And I've

1008
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: been somebody who I've been. I don't believe in paying

1009
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: players outright, I don't, and I do believe that there's

1010
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: a right way and wrong way to do things. But

1011
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: you know you can't call a kid here, you can't

1012
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: see a guy there. Middle school I know you coach

1013
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: au middle school kids can't use your gym because they're

1014
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: recruitable athletes.

1015
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: Like it does?

1016
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: None of it matters when you can pay players.

1017
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, even I look at the camps you can run, right,

1018
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 4: we can't have seventh and eighth graders of camp most

1019
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 4: of July and August. It's like none of us are

1020
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 4: recruiting seven to eighth graders. Nobody's hardly recruiting high school

1021
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 4: kids anymore, much less seven than eighth graders, and so yeah,

1022
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 4: there's a lot of rules that don't make sense. Now,

1023
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 4: we did get a good ruling yesterday. I don't know

1024
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 4: if you saw that, but they've shortened that window from

1025
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 4: five to four years for D three to D one

1026
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 4: and four to three for D two to D one.

1027
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 4: So if this is a year four for us, if

1028
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 4: we meet a bunch of compliance sort of checkpoints through

1029
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 4: the next several months in June, then we would be

1030
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 4: eligible for the tournament next year. So that's you know,

1031
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 4: that's certainly better than it was then. We knew what

1032
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 4: we were signing up for when we did this. I mean,

1033
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 4: there wasn't a pathway to go D three to D

1034
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 4: one if they hadn't made an exception for us. But yeah,

1035
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 4: I at this point I would agree with you teams

1036
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 4: moving up moving up a division from D two to

1037
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 4: D one. I don't think they have some ridiculous advantage.

1038
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 4: I can see where you'd want to make sure that

1039
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: all the compliance and all the rules are being followed.

1040
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 4: But it's a little like the tax code right at

1041
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 4: this point, where how do you keep track of everything?

1042
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 4: And you know, we're just a data time.

1043
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: But Johnny, you're saying you don't pay taxes? Is that

1044
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: what you're when you're sharing here in the alpall pod?

1045
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 4: No that I wouldn't want to go into text and

1046
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 4: be an accountany You're.

1047
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Like other rules, rules, rules, just don't pay them. Who cares?

1048
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: Who cares? So let's say you make the tournament next year?

1049
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: Is this it for you? Like? Is Saint Thomas because

1050
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: your dad went there? Because you went there because you've

1051
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: risen from being a professor and assistant coach to head

1052
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: coach there? I guess is this it? Or is there

1053
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: a higher ring that you want to grasp towards?

1054
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 4: Uh? You know, I probably feel the same way I

1055
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 4: didn't Division three. I would love it if I coached

1056
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 4: my whole career at Saint Thomas, if they if they'll

1057
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 4: have me, you know, I would love to keep doing

1058
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 4: what we're doing. I do think we're building something special,

1059
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 4: you know, two hundred million dollars arena that opens next year.

1060
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 4: I think we've got a really bright future and a

1061
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: chance to be an incredible mid major. But that said,

1062
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, is you never say never, right,

1063
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 4: You're always gonna You're always gonna look at what possibilities

1064
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 4: are out there and what are the best things for

1065
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 4: your family? And I do know it would take something

1066
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 4: pretty incredible for me to leave Saint Thomas. I mean,

1067
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 4: we get we get such good kids, and it's just

1068
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 4: it's it's a lot of fun going to work every day.

1069
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 4: I've done it twenty five years and so yeah, I'd

1070
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: never say never, but it would take something. And I

1071
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 4: feel good about that. My wife founded a charter school.

1072
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 4: So Chancey opened a network at charter schools. Co founded

1073
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 4: them thirteen years ago. Is that a cat or a dog?

1074
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: That's a dog.

1075
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: Okay, I got here, so we sat.

1076
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: Very hairy dog.

1077
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 4: My cat only likes it. It's not my cat, it's

1078
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 4: Chancey's cat. But it only likes me when I'm zoom

1079
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 4: on zoom call. So I'm actually shocked that the cat

1080
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 4: it can tell Like when I used to teach, it

1081
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 4: would only come around me when I was teaching. But

1082
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 4: she founded a charter school teen years ago. It's called

1083
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 4: Prodeo Academy, and so I mean that is her, you know,

1084
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 4: that's her baby. She started from scratch and they've got

1085
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 4: twelve hundred kids that go to the school. They get

1086
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 4: unbelievable results, and so it's we're just we got a

1087
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 4: lot of fun things in the Twin Cities, and you know,

1088
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 4: it's it's always nice to have options, but it's always,

1089
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 4: i'd say, really nice to have your feet in the

1090
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 4: spot that you feel good about.

1091
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So this dog is Vince Flambardi, the Combarty. He's uh,

1092
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: my guy, he's a sheep a doodle. So Dennis didn't

1093
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: tell you the story?

1094
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 4: Oh is this the Did Dennis pick this dog up

1095
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 4: in Atlanta?

1096
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1097
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 2: Oh my.

1098
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 4: I was standing and all of a sudden, he's like, coach,

1099
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 4: I gotta go, Like where are you gonna go? There's

1100
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 4: not that many games in town. He's like, it's not

1101
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 4: a game. Oh my goodness. This is so you talked

1102
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 4: about a team player, right, So so.

1103
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: This is a great So Dennis Harrington's my assistant and

1104
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: he came to us from from a year's staff with

1105
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: Saint Thomas and he's awesome. So Dennis, I had my daughters,

1106
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: my daughter Harper and her friend in town for one

1107
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,760
Speaker 1: of the recruiting weekends. So Dennis is like, hey, coach,

1108
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 1: I'll go. I'd love to go out on the road.

1109
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm I great. So he's in.

1110
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: Atlanta, so.

1111
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: I have another sheep adoodle and a rescue that my

1112
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: ex wife has. And so when we when I moved here,

1113
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: she moved to Oklahoma, and I wasn't crazy happy over

1114
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: the summer, but she was like, I didn't have my dogs.

1115
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the dog guy. And so my daughter's

1116
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: here and we're looking at burna doodles online and there's

1117
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: a burn and it's like Salt Lake City, like four

1118
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,240
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I'm like, this is ridiculous. So I happened

1119
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: to see on Instagram this's cheap of dudels for sale.

1120
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: So I'm doing a little research on this kennel and

1121
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: reading and I see that it's in like South Carolina.

1122
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 1: So I didn't remember where dan Bo was going because

1123
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: there was an event in South Carolina. He was going

1124
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: to Atlanta, but I couldn't remember where he's going. So

1125
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: I texted him and said I said something to line

1126
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: of hey, I need you to get me a dog,

1127
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: and he's like, he said, I'm on it, coach, and

1128
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: he starts listing off names of the players that he

1129
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: that are the most competitive. He likes because we've been

1130
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: talking about recruiting dog like tougher kids like dogs right

1131
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: no no, no no no, no no no. And I said, like,

1132
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: where are you right now? And he had apparently just

1133
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: left the gym to go like go to the seven

1134
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: eleven to get like a probably to get like an

1135
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 1: iced coffee or something like that and get a snack.

1136
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: So he thought like I was spying on him. I

1137
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: was like, no, where physically are you. He's like, I'll

1138
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: be back at the gym and like five minutes, coach,

1139
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: don't be like no, no, no where, drop me a

1140
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: pin where you are? Because I was trying to see.

1141
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: It's like it's Saturday night, and I knew his flight

1142
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: was late Sunday, and so he was flying out at

1143
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: like six and I think the event was like noon.

1144
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing tomorrow afternoon? I

1145
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: got nothing? So I was like, will you go pick

1146
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: up a dog for me? He's like he you know,

1147
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: So he drove. It was supposed to be an hour.

1148
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 1: He claims it was longer because it was like two

1149
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: hours to where they are and where he is, and

1150
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: they met it like a loves truck truck stop or something,

1151
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: and he gets his dog. So the dog is awesome.

1152
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 1: Everybody likes the dog, except well there's a couple of people,

1153
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: but Dennis, because Dennis only he doesn't even really like

1154
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: his dog, but he likes his dog because Molly likes

1155
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: the dog, and he loves Molly, and so then he

1156
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: loves But he's he's like the guy I'm kind of

1157
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: like this with my kids, Like I don't like everybody's kids.

1158
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: I love my kids, you know, And he's Key's like

1159
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: that with dogs. But Barty loves Dennis. The feeling is

1160
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: not reciprocated. He still has some PTSD from uh because

1161
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: the flight was delayed. It's a puppy. He had to

1162
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: go to pet Co and he got like a carrier.

1163
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: He's the best. He got all that stuff done in

1164
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: one night.

1165
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 4: I thought it was some sort of test, like all right,

1166
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 4: let's just see what this guy will actually do, Like

1167
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 4: how training Dame? Remember that with Denzel Washington on the job,

1168
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, is Dennis ethan hawk right now? And Doug

1169
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 4: is Denzel And it's like, let me just see how

1170
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 4: hard you're gonna work for the Green Bay Phoenix. So no,

1171
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 4: that was I was with him. We were watching the

1172
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 4: same game, and all of a sudden, he's like, hey,

1173
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 4: I gotta go, like where are you going there? He's like, no,

1174
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 4: so hey, he came back with a big recruit for

1175
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 4: you though, right, that's it. He did.

1176
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: He's very popular. He's not going to transfer portal. Everybody

1177
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: likes him so great. Grades aren't great. He did okay

1178
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: and obedient school, but grades aren't great. But he's it's

1179
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: a constant source of entertainment because every time Dennis comes over,

1180
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: the dog goes crazy and Dennis is like, I don't

1181
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: I don't really like you.

1182
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 4: So it's very there's probably some psychological theories of attachment

1183
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 4: where this dog feels a very powerful Yeah. Right, it's

1184
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 4: not being no question.

1185
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, So do you use your psychological like do

1186
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: you actually ever do a psychological breakdown on your players?

1187
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 4: Not very much formal stuff. We've done a little personality

1188
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 4: stuff before with them, but I probably try to steer

1189
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 4: a little more clear, like they know my background and

1190
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 4: most of the freshman years, you think that you're a

1191
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 4: psychologist can read your mind, and so I try and

1192
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 4: disabuse them. But that I was like, no, that's not

1193
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 4: what it is. It's just about how you know, how

1194
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 4: do you think about the world, And I I think

1195
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 4: probably it permeates the way I think, but we don't

1196
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 4: do a bunch of psychological stuff, if that makes sense.

1197
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,919
Speaker 4: But you know, the way I look at the world,

1198
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 4: for good or bad, is very much like designing a

1199
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 4: social psych experiment. And there's correlational studies, there's experimental studies,

1200
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 4: and how do you tweak a variable here or there?

1201
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 4: Team building, I think there's a ton of psychology in that,

1202
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 4: but it's you know this, it's as much or more

1203
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 4: art than science. You know, so you can you can

1204
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 4: do all the studies you want, you can read all

1205
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 4: the books you want. At the end of the day,

1206
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 4: you got we got sixteen guys on our team, we

1207
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 4: got seven coaches, and it's like, how do you build

1208
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 4: that dynamic? And every year parenting and coaching, I always

1209
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 4: I always say, the night you go to bed thinking

1210
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 4: you got it figured out, there's no chance in the

1211
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 4: morning things are good, like something will have happened. And

1212
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 4: I think when I learned to sort of embrace that

1213
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 4: in coaching, just knowing even when things are going great,

1214
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 4: somebody's got an issue. Right There's a kid in the

1215
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 4: team going through something tough. There's a kid who strugg

1216
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 4: them with school, there's you know, just the dynamics of

1217
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 4: it all and it's what makes it so special. But yeah,

1218
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 4: to answer your question, I'm being overly loquacious right now,

1219
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 4: but I think it's probably every day what we do,

1220
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 4: but we don't explicitly talk about it a lot.

1221
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 2: All right, that's it for part one of our.

1222
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: Of Our All Ball with Johnny Tower, the head coach

1223
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: of Saint Thomas. Reminder of the Doug Gottlieb Show, airs

1224
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: daily three to five Eastern twelve two specific plus. We

1225
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: have it's called in the bonus. It's a bonus our podcast.

1226
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: You just download it where if you download this podcast,

1227
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: you see Doug Gottlieb, you know the general content you get.

1228
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: Hey, and if you're listening to this, feel free to

1229
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: send up a prayer to the Big Fellow. We just

1230
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 2: we just got to get one for these kids. Man.

1231
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: You know, if you've ever.

1232
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: Been a part of a team when they're not struggling

1233
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: with belief in what we're doing, they're struggling, I think,

1234
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: a belief in them selves.

1235
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 2: And that's hard. It just is.

1236
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: And when you know, when you have that number of

1237
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: losses consecutively, they just gotta believe and finally get one

1238
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: more basket. Than your opponent. So if you want to

1239
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: say a quick one to the fella upstairs to help

1240
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: your boy out in GB, I would I would love it.

1241
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. Tune in

1242
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: next time we'll get to part two with Johnny Tower.

1243
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb.

1244
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 2: This is all ball