WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 213 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.880 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.680 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.480 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.240 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.400 Welcome to it could happen here, a podcast about how 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.080 freedom is a joke in our lives are the punchline, 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:39.559 I am your host, Mio Wong. Long ago, twenty thirteen, 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.640 in a galaxy basically exactly where this one is now. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.640 Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon and now a terminal fascist, 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:52.200 purchased the Washington Post. This was a sign of things 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.480 to come. The danger of the American free press is 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.840 and has always been, that we do not have a 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:06.479 free press. We have a capitalist press. Writing and especially reporting, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.679 is a material product. Journalists have to eat, they have 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.240 to travel, they have to go places, they have to 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:18.399 meet people. All of this requires capital. And the problem 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.440 with all of this requiring capital is that capital is 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.080 not a neutral entity and the people who possess capital 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:33.480 have interests. Fast forward to twenty twenty, as protests and 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.520 uprisings raised across the United States against the police and 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.679 white supremacy. A battle broke out inside of the New 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.360 York Times newsrooms and editorial staff about the newspaper publishing 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:50.480 an opinion piece called send in the Troops calling for 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.400 You've Guessed It, Sending in the troops to attack protesters, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.960 published by a member of the American governments named Tom Cotton. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.240 Editors resigned in outrage. Debates raised a class journalist slacks. 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.280 It was the culmination of decades of battles about the 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.080 direction of politics in race in the United States, fought 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.440 simultaneously in the streets and in the newsroom. Twenty twenty 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.320 was a significant danger to the ruling class. The actual 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.360 ideology that was so dangerous it had to be destroyed 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.720 was this if the premise of twenty twenty is true, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.320 which is that the US is a structurally racist country 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.639 founded on slavery and genocide, and that reproduces those same 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:41.920 violences through the prison system, which has legal slavery in it. 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.640 From the structure of the Thirteenth Amendment and reproduces it 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:51.520 again through the police. Then the American project is indefensible, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:58.840 and here there be dragons. The ruling class needed to 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:03.360 move to stop it, and so they created what they 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.560 would call, I guess, a new ideology, but was really 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.560 a continuation of centuries old strategies. This time we branded 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.320 as anti woke. One of the avatars of anti woke 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.720 was Barry Weiss. Barry Weiss was that the New York 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.840 Times at the time was an ideological diversity hire, which 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:26.040 is to say, affirmative action for white conservatives, as affirmative 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.520 action has only existed in the figments of the minds 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.840 of conservatives. She was given a cozy make work job 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.000 at the beginning of the Trump administration as an opinion 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.640 staff editor and writer for The New York Times. She 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:44.000 was hired specifically to bring in more Trumpian figures into 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.280 the opinion section. This is, and I cannot emphasize this enough, 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.400 this is the fever dream of affirmative action in the 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.160 conservative mind right. And these are going to be about 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.600 to people who really hate affirmative action. But again, what 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.000 they are being given. They are being handled by the 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:05.400 most important newspaper probably in the entire world. You know, 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.840 she was handed a job because she was a fucking 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:15.160 right winger. Now, Weiss was part of the shall we say, 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.880 conversations at the New York Times about again whether or 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.679 not a newspaper should print a letter from a sitting 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:28.880 US representative calling for the deployment of US soldiers against 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.599 the American people. And she saw this as an opportunity 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.599 not to resist a obviously tyrannical program by again, a 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.640 sitting member of the United States government. She saw this 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:44.159 as her moment to do a grift. Now, in this moment, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.920 she resigned from The New York Times in a huff 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.360 raving about the quote lack of ideological diversity. Who had 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.640 a giant rant about how the Twitter is not the 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.159 masthead of the New York Times blah blah blah blah 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.840 blah blah blah, which again I kind of emphasize this enough. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.640 Like the she was brought in as a right wing 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:07.359 affirmative action higher in order to appease the demand from 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.159 the ruling class. I guess for like pro Trump people, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.919 they already had electra right wingers. This is completely unhinged. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.839 But you know, she resigns and she has this big 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.600 press to her in the right wing press trying to 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.920 talk about how she was canceled, and of course none 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.520 of this ever even happened. Right. We can debate the 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.360 effect to which cancelation ever was even really a thing 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.200 or did anything at all, But she was not canceled. 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.880 She literally resigned of her own free will. She was 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.599 not forced out. She chose to leave in order to 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.240 pursue a career as a right wing griff for another fields, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.719 namely Substack, where she ran a newsletter that was sort 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.040 of rebranded as like, oh, it's a media outlet called 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.760 the Free Press. It's like, no, this is Barry Weiss's Substack. 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:48.800 Come on, what are we doing here? What are we 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.520 doing here? Now? Weiss is not a journalist. She is 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:59.000 a right wing idea logue. She's also a hardline Zionist. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.840 If you want to go into all of the absolutely 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.240 unhidded shit that Barry Weiss has said and done over 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.760 the years, all of the just unbelievably somophobic shit, all 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.520 of the weird racist shit, all of the anti immigrant 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.839 shit that she said, there's a very good John Oliver 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.320 thing about her. She is part of this story. But 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.440 if we spent this entire episode just talking about how 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.280 much he fucking sucks. We would be here for like 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.440 two decades now. In a just world, none of this 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.960 would matter at all. This would just be a conservative 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.799 walking off from the free job that she was given 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.240 by The New York Times, stomping off at a huff 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.280 and going to start a sub stack whatever. Who kicks. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.640 This is not a just world. This is the United States. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.120 She now controls one of the most powerful and important 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:49.920 news organizations in the United States. The story of how 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.279 she got there is the story of the future of 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.880 the American media. Unfortunately, for all of us, the story 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.400 is a stressingly simple Barry Weiss and her outlet. I'm 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.039 using that in immense quotations. Again, this is just a 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:10.320 sub stack was bought out by one Larry Ellison. Larry 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.600 Ellison that appointed Weiss to be the ideological hatchet woman 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.840 for his takeover of Paramount, which owns CBS. There was 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.400 no secret plan, there was no weird strategy, there was 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.320 no Illuminati cabal behind the scenes. It didn't require any 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.520 effort at all. All you have to do in order 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.000 to install a right wing hack as the editor in 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:39.720 chief of CBS News is by the company. The results 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.920 have been devastating. I would call what happened to resegregation. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.800 There was a large scale firing of non white employees. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:53.760 NBC eliminated the editorial teams for NBC Asian America, NBC Black, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.800 NBC Latino, and NBC Out. NBC Out was the queer one. 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:03.040 They fired kal King. They did some stuff that frankly 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.000 sounds like a joke. I'm just going to read this 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:09.120 quote from the Root and the CBS News bureau in Johannesburg, 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.760 South Africa has been shut down with coverage of Africa 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:18.600 shifting to London. That is again, they closed the South 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.440 Africa Bureau. This is a CBS bureau in South Africa 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.800 and moved their coverage of Africa from Africa to London. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.440 If a hardline Marxist ideologue had written this in nineteen 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:34.120 sixty seven, no one would have believed them. And in 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.440 the process, what they've done here is they've destroyed the 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.160 NBC outlets that were responsible for doing a whole bunch 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.679 of coverage for different groups of not white people. Right, 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.840 nbcblkh's MC Black did a whole bunch of very good 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.920 coverage of the uprising in twenty twenty right, NBC Asian 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.480 America did a bunch of good work. NBC out was 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.280 a place where you could occasionally find a transperson who 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.480 was allowed to write. And all of that is gone 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:04.120 because one man, Larry Allison and his son David Allison, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:10.840 bought the fucking media company and installed this unhinged right 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:16.480 wing hack as their ideological secret police. I don't even 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.760 know what you would call this position, the ideological purge executor. 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.160 I guess you could call it of CBS. Now, obviously 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.079 there are multiple aspects to this. We'll talk about Larry 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.800 Ellison himself in a second, because he is a very 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.040 important figure. But first, before we talk about the consolidation 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.400 of capital into increasing monopolies. Let's go here from some 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:57.439 of those monopolies, product services. Let's go we are so back. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.600 Obvious driving factors behind what has become a right wing 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.560 fascist takeover of the media has been the consolidation of 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.719 capital into increasing monopolies. Now, it's been a very, very 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.600 famous thing in the US to say that most of 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.920 American media is controlled by five companies. But here's the thing. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.560 Even those five companies, those can always be consolidated into 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.240 fewer and fewer companies. Right as the company start to struggle, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.800 as any one of them sees weakness in the other ones, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.440 you get attempts to buy them out. And this is 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 what happens with Paramount, which is again the parent company 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.000 that owns NBC. So the way that it's framed, if 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.760 you read it in the presss oh, it was a 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:47.679 merger between Skydance, which was Ellison's sort of outlet, and Paramount. 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.120 But that's not really what happened. Really, what happened was 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.320 Paramount was bought by Ellison and sky Dance and they 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.080 were merged together after that. And this is a problem 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.640 with the concentration of capital. Right as capital becomes increasingly 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.880 more and more concentration, as there are individual people and 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.600 also entities that control more and more capital, their ability 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.000 to simply swallow the rest of their competition and consume 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.240 it increases. And this is a significant advantage to the companies. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.440 To get the swallow of this capital, they get to 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.200 absorb all of the intellectual property, and so now they 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.000 have control over the property regimes that allow them to 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.439 control cultural production, and as a sort of incidental bonus, 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.600 they can take control of the media. Now it's worth 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:39.880 getting into the Ellisons themselves. Now, Larry Allison, back in 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.280 the halcyon days of twenty twenty, was merely the eleventh 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.520 richest man in the world when he quote participated in 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.280 a call shortly after the twenty twenty election that focus 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.679 on strategies for contesting the legitimacy of the vote. According 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.280 to court documents and a participant, the November fourteenth call 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.800 included Lindsey Graham, Fox News host Sean Hannity, Jay Seklau, 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.840 an attorney for President Donald Trump, and James Bob Junior, 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.160 an eternity for True the Vote, a Texas based nonprofit. 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.360 True the Vote was a completely unhanged organization dedicated to 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.520 overturning the twenty twenty election by doing all these weird 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.360 voter fraud things. And they had a strategy call, like 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:20.800 the attorney in a strategy call with a bunch of 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.600 Trump supporters, including one Larry Ellison. Now again that was 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.640 back in twenty twenty. Here in twenty twenty five and 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.839 now fighting with Elon Musk for the title of the 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.360 richest person in the fucking world. Ellison said, and I quote, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.120 We're going to have supervision. Every police officer is going 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.920 to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.640 AI will report that problem and report it to the 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.440 appropriate person. Citizens will be on their best behavior because 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.840 we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:57.240 now in that intervening time. Larry Ellison is one of 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.360 the people behind Oracle, and Oracle has benefited enormously as 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.600 a company that got really in on the cloud storage boom. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.560 They even benefited enormously from selling a bunch of shit 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.760 to AI companies. Lara. Ellison is also a huge AI supporter, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.400 a huge back of AI, a huge someone who wants 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.400 to spread AI, and someone who wants to spread AI, 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.880 you know, very specifically, and this is very important into 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:28.120 surveillance technology. He is also one of the people who 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.440 as twenty twenty went on and as the last half 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.720 decade has come on and as the giant sort of 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:40.160 backlash against against the uprising, and as his attempt to 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.280 reassert racism as the dominant ideology of the United States 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.360 and to make sure that capitals hold over this country 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.800 and that white supremacies hold over this country would be maintained, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.440 he has become one of the large drivers of this 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.800 entire project He's not the only one. Jeff Bezos, as 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.559 we started this program with, already owned the Washington Post 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.880 in twenty twenty five, he went in to very seriously 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.160 change it. Jeff Bezos on the now fascist Twitter and 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.000 we will get to that in a second. Two wrote 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.079 and this was a This was a letter that he 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.120 sent to his staff, and this is this is the 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.240 editorial section. I'm writing to let you know about a 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.440 change coming to our opinion pages. We are going to 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.040 be writing every day in support and defense of two pillars, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.400 personal liberties and free markets. Will cover other topics too, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.680 of course, but viewpoints opposing those pillars will be left 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.840 to be published by others. David Shipley, who had been 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.040 his handpicked editor, resigned rather than lead the effort. It's 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.480 not like Shipley had been like a leftist, right but 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.600 you know, I'm going to read another part of this letter. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.280 Quote I offered David Shipley, who I admire greatly because 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.800 you know he was the Hambick guy, the opportunity to 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.520 lead this new chapter I suggest. I said to him 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.080 that the answer wasn't hell yes, that it had to 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.000 be no. After careful consideration, David decided to step away. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.560 So okay, what was actually happening here he came in 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.480 was like, our board is not fascist enough, and if 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.760 you're not going to make it more fascist, then get 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.760 the fuck out of the way. And the guy he 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.560 had picked to run the editorial board like three years ago, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.160 when this is unacceptable. I cannot be involved in this. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.680 And left and now Washington Post publishes pieces with titles 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.560 like quote Pam Bondi's welcome woke rollback. The Justice Department 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:41.640 rescinds regulations encouraging racial preferences, you know, and you can 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.640 in some ways see all of the things that are 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.760 coming together. Obviously, Bezos was a major supporter of the 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.520 Trump administration, is a major support of the Trump administration. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.880 Put a bunch of money into the unhinged Trump ballroom. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.640 And when he says Justice resins regulations encouraging racial preferences, 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.120 they're talking about anti scrim nation ordinances, right, That's what 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.160 they're actually talking about. But these people have been so 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.560 cooked and have stewed so much in the ideology of 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.720 countering the ideology of twenty twenty that they're they're now 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.680 doing all of this reversed racism stuff where they think 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.760 that if you're not allowed to discriminate. That's anti white discrimination. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.560 And the Washington Post has been tanking effectively in the 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.360 wake of a whole bunch of a whole bunch of 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.680 writ wing editorial changes. Its audience has significantly declined since this. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.480 A whole bunch of people who subscribed to the Post 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.320 called it in their subscriber count is just absolutely pitiful. 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.400 Now the reach has been contracting. The paper is going 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.640 to shit. But that doesn't matter because the Washington Post 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.240 is not a money making outlet. The Washington Post is 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.240 a chance to shape the way that the country thinks. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:54.280 And it is better that you know seven people in Washington, DC, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.680 who are all identically minded conservatives read the Washington Posts 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.560 and agree with it than it is for there to 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.240 be any sort of independence whatsoever from anything on the 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.399 shop floor from any of the people writing for it. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.960 We've also seen in recent months the elimination of teen 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.520 Folgue Conte Nasty. Teenvogue's parent company eliminated Team Vogue as 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.000 an independent outlet. Teen Vogue had been the furthest left 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.800 of the even sort of mainstream outlets in the US. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.160 It had carried a bunch of extremely good and radical 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.000 work on race and gender. It was also one of 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.160 the few outlets with consistent trans writing. And of course, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.000 the other aspect of all of these purges has been 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:38.840 unbelievable on hinge transphobia. And this was them just destroying 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.800 what had been a very very important outlet on the 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.160 left for telling the stories of non white people, telling 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.760 the stories of workers, and telling the stories of trans people. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.240 And they just destroyed it. Even though, and this is 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:57.240 actually very interesting, ever since teen Vogue had shifted to 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.879 doing a bunch of leftist coverage and covering the protests 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.119 against Donald Trump in his first administration and had gone 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:07.480 towards actually, you know, talking about labor and talking about 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.439 struggle and talking about unions and talking about you know, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.600 the like, the experiences of people living under white supremacy. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.200 Its readership had exploded. But again that doesn't matter because 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.919 it's bad for Donald Trump. And so we're seeing the 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.840 ideological tightening consolidation to the media as what had been 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.040 an outlet that allowed people to talk about shit was 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:33.160 just destroyed. Now, speaking about outlets destroying things ideologically, Hey, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:48.320 product and services, please don't destroy USOO. Now, as we 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.760 covered on this show a few weeks ago. Conde Nasts 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:58.440 also fired several union workers legally for you know, staging 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.960 a again protected workplace action, demanding to know what the 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.280 fuck was going on with these teen Vogue firings. And 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.800 that's another aspect of all of his takeover, which is 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:14.000 that these outlets just viciously and radically hates and this 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.320 is the ruling classes people who run these outlets viciously 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.560 hate unions. And this is something that's very important to 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.159 understand in terms of media unions, because media unions were 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.480 also a very powerful force for encouraging diversity because, as 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.240 it turns out, workers and this is true, I could 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.880 say that someone who's part of a media union less 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.800 racist than the bosses, and in fact would like there 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.560 to be more non white people and don't like it 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.800 when non white people are discriminated against. And this is 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.000 one of the things that these media unions and that 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.480 unions in general do is try to help you not 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.159 get fucking discriminated against on racial grounds. So of course 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.560 a part and partial of this has been the targeting 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.400 of the union and that's what we've been seeing at 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.840 conte Nast, where they also fired workers who had nothing 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.720 to do with teen Vogue and also of whom was 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.119 on the show and is trans and you should go 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.960 listen to that episode because it's very good. But that's 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.480 another aspect of this right wing consolidation is that media 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.439 unions are able to push back against the untrammeled power 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:17.639 of these fascist billionaires to turn news coverage into whatever 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.400 the fuck they want. And that's what's happened at CBS, 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.920 where they're now doing giant specials with like Kirk's Widow 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.639 and all of these just absolutely deranged, unbelievably bizarre right 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.640 wing pieces that they're just sort of airing now. And 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:37.960 in order to you know, stop that shit, you need 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.480 powerful media unions, and this is one of the things 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.119 the ruling class is trying to crush. Now. It's also 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.119 worth mentioning that these right wing billionaires are trying to 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.320 consolidate their hold on social media as well as the 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.840 traditional media. And obviously the largest example of this is 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.520 Elon Musk, who's purchased Twitter and has you know, effectively 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.760 turned Twitter into another arm of Stormfront. It is a 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.399 just unhinged stew of racism and conspiracy that is now 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.080 effectively unusable if you don't want like the most racist 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.639 shit you've ever seen in your entire life, just in 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.320 every single one of your replies. And it's also become 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.119 a major, you know, vector of targeting for the Trump administration, 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.560 where what Twitter is used for now, instead of being 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.879 a platform that at one time actually was able to 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.040 play a role as a thing that does resistance, as 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.520 a tool of protesters, and as a tool of people 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:34.760 who opposed, you know, the untraveled rule of billionaires, it's 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.080 now been converted into just racist slop and a way 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.280 to track down anyone who's sort of vaguely centered left 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.520 and just put them in the eyes of the administration 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.160 so they can be targeted by the state. And it's 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.359 also worth noting that one of the people who helped 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.919 bankroll the purchase of Twitter because Elon Musk couldn't just 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.359 purchase it directly, was one Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison is 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:02.760 also part of a massive attempt to buy TikTok. Listeners 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.840 of the show are probably familiar with the whole extremely 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.480 weird story about how TikTok was banned last year under 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.199 the Biden administration sort of bafflingly and Trump sort of 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:16.920 just broke the law and made it still be usable, 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.440 but has been trying to force TikTok to be sold 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.560 to American buyers. And the conglomerate that's supposed to buy 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.080 it is a Larry Ellison thing, so he's also attempting 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.399 to buy TikTok. And finally, the story we're were to 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.159 close on is that Larry Ellison has been doing a 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:40.119 hostile takeover bid of Warner Brothers. Now Warner Brothers currently 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.560 is set to be bought by Netflix. Larry Ellison kept 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:47.520 on submitting bids to them, and his efforts to actually 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.359 get the purchase to go through were consistently denied. But 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:53.680 in the wake of that, they're attempting to do a 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.800 hostile takeover bid where they just go to the shareholders 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.800 directly and try to buy them out at what they 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.680 claim is a higher share price. I'm not going to 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.399 go into that whole thing as a fiasco, but what 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:08.120 is interesting for our purposes is that David Allison, who's 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:11.159 the guy running Paramount, who's the guy who's been directly 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.240 running the ideological purges, has met several times with Trump, 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.080 and last time they met, Trump has promised that he 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.760 would change the coverage of CNN in order to make 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:21.639 it better for Trump. 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:22.480 Now. 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.160 It's also worth noting that buying CNN is not part 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.520 of the deal for the Warner takeover bid by Netflix. 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.520 Right if Netflix takes over Warner Bros. They don't get CNN. 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.640 Under Paramount and Larry Ellison's deal, they would get CNN now, 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:38.920 even though CNN has done a whole bunch of unhandshit 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.280 like having Ben Shapiro on to do fucking Electron coverage. 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.040 Jesus fucking Christ. Okay, Trump has still been mad at 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.760 them for reporting even a tiny bit critically about his administration. 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.359 And Trump has been kind of refusing to pick a 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:58.600 side directly in terms of the takeover bid for Warner 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:02.280 Brothers in the fight between Netflix and Paramount, but he's 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:05.080 now said that he wants to make sure that CNN 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:07.359 is sold and that it should get new leadership, presumably 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:11.560 along the style of what happened with CBS. And so 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.719 this is sort of the final phase of all of this, right, 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.640 which is trumpministration has the ability to use is quote 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.760 unquote anti trust power in order to stop one of 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:25.520 these two companies from doing this buyout, and Trump administration 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:28.760 is using the fact that the media is being bought 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.280 out by his allies in order to try to get 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:36.439 people to buy CNN and simply eliminate negative news coverage 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:40.199 of him. And I don't really think I need to 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.080 explain why it's extremely bad that the president of the 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.639 United States could simply order a news outlet to be 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:49.720 bought out, and then suddenly it's bought out. I think 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:53.280 it's kind of self explanatory why that's unbelievably bad. But 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:57.120 that is the situation that we may rapidly find ourselves 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:00.800 in because we don't live in anything that even sort 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.639 of looks like a democracy. We live in the dictatorship 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.760 of capital. And a thing about the press under a dictatorship, 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.679 even one that's as decentralized as the dictatorship of capital, 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:14.479 is that one particularly fascist faction of capital can simply 0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:16.840 roll in by the media and take control of it. 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.680 And that's the project that we're seeing now. But these 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.480 people are not undefeatable. We beat them before, we can't 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:28.399 beat them again. And in some ways their project is 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:30.399 kind of self defeating in that they have spent a 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:34.760 significant amount of time hollowing out people's trust in these institutions, 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:37.800 and there is an extent to which as bad as 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:41.320 all of this is, they may simply be taking control 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.240 of a husk that they had already caused a rot 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.720 from the inside. And meanwhile, all of these, all of 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:49.600 his control of the media that they've been taking has 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.960 not stopped everyone from fucking hating them. And that's the 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:56.040 note that I want to leave everyone here on. It 0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:58.280 doesn't matter how much of the media these people buy, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:02.199 everyone still hates them. We can fight them and we 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:19.720 can win. Welcome, take it up at here a podcast 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:21.800 boldly asked the question what if a whole bunch of 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:27.000 your life wasn't controlled by the bizarre whims of random dictators. 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:31.879 This is your host, Mia Wung And the last time 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:35.080 we saw the Blue Bottle Union they had stage to 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:41.879 walk out treated Eclipse. Now they are back again to 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.600 talk about union shit and Yeah with me is Alex Pine, 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.359 who's the president of Blue Bottle Union, and Abby Sadow, 0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.560 the secretary treasurer. Yet both of you two, Welcome to 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.840 the show. Hi, thanks for having us both back on. Guys, 0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:57.399 thank you so much. Yeah, I'm really really, I'm really 0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.760 excited to talk about this because the last one, I 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:03.560 gotta say that was one of the absolute funniest things 0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:04.160 I've ever heard. 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:07.280 Yeah, I still can't get over how DHS got called 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.080 on us when we tried to file for our election. 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:11.720 So uninche like, I feel like this is this is 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:13.199 one of the things about doing the show is like 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.399 I'm like about to be five years into this, right, 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:18.320 It's like you think you've seen it all and then 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:22.359 just like no, just just the most unhinged bullshit you've 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:24.760 ever heard in your entire life, because like, just like, 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:28.920 the capacity for cruelty and inventiveness of bosses is effectively infinite, 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.399 So they can always find some bullshit the pull that 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:36.600 you've never seen before, and they love to do it too. Yeah. 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:38.520 This is one of the reasons why we unionized to 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:42.040 begin with, is just because bosses can be petty tyrants. Yeah, 0:27:42.280 --> 0:27:44.600 and sometimes it seems like the only reason that they 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.919 got into being a boss is because they want to 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:49.960 be a petty tyrant but don't have the soul for 0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:52.040 politics anyways. 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:54.680 Yeah, we unionized last May. 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:59.360 For anybody that's unaware, Blue Bottle is a so called 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:03.000 specialty cough that is owned entirely by Nesslie. Yes, that 0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:05.879 one that everyone regards as widely being evil. 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:10.000 Yeah. See an extremely logged episode that I did, for example, 0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.800 about Niceleie chocolate and child labor is great. This child 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:17.800 slave labor good stuff. We love capitalism, and. 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:19.600 Their coffee business is truly no better. 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:20.920 Yeah. 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:23.040 I mean, this is going to get wildly off topic 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.160 before we even begin. But if anybody looks up the 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.399 NGO Coffee Watch, they do a lot of great reporting 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:33.159 and research on the supply chains of coffee, specifically Nestli's 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:36.879 and Starbucks's, and it's all very ugly stuff. But Blue Bottle, 0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:39.640 Blue Bottles, especially the coffee chain owned by Neslei. We 0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:43.400 unionized all six of their Greater Boston locations in May 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.880 of twenty twenty four, and this year we. 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.520 Added four locations in the East Bay area to our 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:51.720 union in July. Hell yeah yeah. 0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:55.840 We also just concluded a multi day strike as an 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:58.840 independent union at the end of November, so Black Friday. 0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:04.040 Hell yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So let's talk about that strike. Well, actually, 0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:06.480 I guess okay, we should. We should probably do the 0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:08.840 run up to what has been happening until we go 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:12.440 after that strike. I'm getting I'm getting strike excited. This 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:14.120 is how I've been in my mind since September. It 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:19.280 is just how do we make a strike happen? Yeah, hell, yeah, Yeah, 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:21.800 let's talk about like what the sort of lead up 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.200 stuff to the action war and let's talk about like. 0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.920 Yeah, what expanding was, Like, yeah, Abby, do you want 0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:28.320 to talk about the lead up? 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:29.840 Yeah. 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:36.200 So since we unionized last May, we've had multiple stage walkouts. 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:39.800 In September of last year, yeah, one of our union 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:43.120 wraps at the Harvard Square location, well unjustly fires, we 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.800 did a walk out over her termination. We did a 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:51.280 walkout in January of this past year after Blue Bottle 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:55.120 completely refused to negotiate with us over the renovation of 0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:57.360 the Poudential Center and a lot of employees were going 0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.840 to be losing out on almost eight dollars in tips 0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:03.160 and is just fright hundreds of dollars a month. And 0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.640 the company was like, oh, well, we bargained to an impasse, 0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:07.600 so we're just going to do whatever we want. We 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:12.040 were like, okay, well that's not that's not all this works. No, yeah, 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.600 And then in May of this year, we did another 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.760 walkout when they made the same argument that we bargained 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:21.080 towards impass when they tried to install security cameras. 0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:22.600 For anybody that's wondering. 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.400 No, the cafes in Boston did not have cameras in 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:28.960 them for the entire time that we were organizing or unionized, 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.720 until we began negotiating the installation of cameras as part 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:36.080 of our contract. When they felt like they were done 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.680 talking about cameras with us, they declared impass, which they 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.360 can't do because we were negotiating it as part of 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.080 the contract, so they would have had to get to 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.160 an impass on the entire contract before doing it. Yeah, 0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:50.160 and their lawyer basically said, well, we weren't getting anywhere 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:51.920 with that, so we're going to do anyways. 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:57.200 God, labor law is so fun because it's like like 0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:01.280 every boss breaks like one hundred million labor laws a second, 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.240 and then kind of nothing happens unless you force it to. 0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:10.320 Speaking of breaking weird labor laws, since we unionized, one 0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:13.840 nice thing that has happened was until May of this year, 0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:18.320 they were negotiating over serious discipline, so final written warnings 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.800 or terminations with us. In effect, what this means is 0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:24.000 that they would sit down with us and just talk 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:27.040 about why they felt like terminating someone was justified until 0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:29.080 they said we're not going to do anything else aside 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:34.240 from fire them. But because of an NLRB ruling with 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:38.800 Starbucks at the end of April, their lawyer said that 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:40.440 they were done with that and they felt that they 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.400 had no legal obligation to continue doing it. Oh fun yeah, 0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:47.239 which a break from past practice. And we have been 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:50.640 writing them committing to negotiating over serious discipline with us. 0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:54.360 So less than a week after they say we're not 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.160 going to bargain over discipline with you anymore, they fire 0:31:57.440 --> 0:32:00.240 one coworker of ours, and our store immediately walked out 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:00.560 over it. 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:01.200 Hell yeah. 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:02.000 Which yeah. 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:04.680 I continue to be proud of that walkout, specifically because 0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:08.120 it wasn't planned and because it was over something that 0:32:08.680 --> 0:32:10.560 is pretty technical labor law wise. 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:13.000 Just the fact that they didn't negotiate over the termination. 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:17.120 That fun. That wrong. Yes, that's like girl who's read 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:19.440 a bunch of weird labor history. This thing feels like 0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:21.240 a thing for a fucking weird labor history. The thing 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.520 it reminds me of is that there was this thing 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:26.800 in I think it was sibber Gora in Spain. She 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:28.640 like the twenties and thirties where it was like this 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:31.880 hyperbilitant labor like union like labor Town, but they had 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.840 a whole thing where they refused to strike over like 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.600 improving economic conditions because they were like, this is bourgeois 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:41.360 reformism and they would only strike over political stuff. Oh yeah, 0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:43.960 but if you arrested like one person, like the whole 0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:49.200 fucking city would go out. It's like this lot like yeah, no, 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:51.800 we could just call. We could just fucking instantly get 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.120 get a fucking walk out to happen over just like 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.800 over like them fucking with like kind of technical labor 0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:01.080 stuff like this rocks. We love to see it. Yeah. 0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:03.720 I was on the floor that day that our coworker 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:06.040 was fired, and I remember I went on my ten 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:08.239 minute break after she was fired, and there's like a 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.960 pond behind our store, and I was literally throwing rocks 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.280 into the pond and I was like this sucks so 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:15.760 bad and I'm so angry. And then I was like, wait, 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:19.160 we're a unionized. I was like, wait a minute, we 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.320 have a union. And I go back into the store 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:22.960 and I was like, hey, guys, if we don't walk 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:25.080 out right now, then what is the point? 0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:25.440 Yeah? 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:27.920 And everyone was like yeah, actually, if we don't walk 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:29.440 out right now, what is the point? 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:32.120 Yeah? Hell yeah. 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:33.920 And then we all walked out and it was it 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:34.840 was really beautiful. 0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:37.680 Actually, that's so sick. That's so beautiful. I don't know 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:41.320 there's some kind of metaphor for like you walking in 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:44.040 being like the first rip the rock hitting the pond 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:45.920 in the first ripples going out and the whole thing. 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:50.640 Oh absolutely, that's I don't know, that's gorgeous. I love it. 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:52.840 That fucking rules. Congratulations. Tell yeah. 0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:55.440 One of my favorite things to say is that union 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:58.560 is friendship, and friendship is unions, and when your friend 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:00.840 gets fired, you should be able to walk out. 0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:01.440 Yeah. 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:05.400 Yeah, fucked that, like seriously here. 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:09.080 Yeah, And on the whole, we've had a I think 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:11.640 pretty successful year, especially because I want to stress this, 0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:14.799 we're independent, So for all the walkouts that we've done, 0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.440 we've been able to replace the wages of baristas. 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:18.479 Oh that's really sick. 0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:20.960 If anybody listening to this wants to help us be 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:23.920 able to do more walkouts, you can go yes tinywurl 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:27.000 dot com forward slash bbu dash strike will be in 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:27.560 the description. 0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:28.080 Hell yeah. 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:32.160 Because at this point, the companies realize that they can't 0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:36.640 break our solidarity in any meaningful way by resorting to 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:39.720 skear tactics or delaying, and so now they've just resorted 0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:42.920 to straight up firing people because yeah, like it's kind 0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:45.239 of like a break glass here in case of emergency 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:45.720 thing where. 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:47.919 They're like, we're all out of ideas. What do we do? Yeah, 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:49.600 it's just start trying to fire everyone. 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:51.480 And that's what they've done. 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:52.360 Yeah. 0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:57.239 Most recently, all the stores in both Boston and the 0:34:57.280 --> 0:35:00.359 East Bay area went on a four day straight it's 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:05.480 November because the company illegally fired Abby executive board member 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.120 named Nora and an organizer of ours in the East 0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:12.200 Bay named Ashley for all incredibly petty reasons. I don't 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:13.400 know if you want to speak more to why you 0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:14.040 were fired Abby. 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:18.799 Yeah, so on the record, I was fired because I 0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:25.520 wore green pants. What I wore green pants like three 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:30.399 weeks prior to me being fired. And let me tell you, 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:33.280 there's nothing worse than waking up at four point thirty 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:36.439 to go to your opening shift at your stupid cafe job, 0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:40.480 to then clock in and be immediately hit with separation 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:43.120 forms because you wore green pants three weeks ago. 0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:46.080 What you must. 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.680 Understand what a serious infraction it is to wear green pants. 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:50.920 Of course, I mean clearly the green pants that I've 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:52.560 been wearing for the better part of two years. 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:55.200 Yeah, firing Abby was generous. Actually she should have been 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:56.920 put to death for the crime of wearing green pants. 0:35:56.920 --> 0:36:00.920 Of course, most likely this is. 0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:04.080 Some like fucking medieval like, yeah, you pissed off the 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:06.719 monarch by like you wore a color of pants that 0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:09.120 was like unfavorable to the eye of the king, and 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.320 now he's drawn and quarter Like what is this bullshit? 0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.520 Like, yep, I wore green pants in front of my manager, 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:17.720 therefore I should not be able to make my rent. 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:23.120 Yeah, it's absolutely gibberish that that might be the all 0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:26.479 time dubbest fiery reason I've ever heard, Like what is. 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:31.319 Oh yeah, it's just so egregious because the managers know 0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:33.240 that I have a great rapport with all my coworkers. 0:36:33.239 --> 0:36:36.480 I'm front all of my coworkers, and they were like, hmm, 0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:39.719 how can we, you know, make one of our long 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:43.000 standing employees who is good at their job, you know, 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:48.440 get fired? So green pants was the reasoning, which. 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:52.319 And just like the idea of your employer being able 0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:55.839 to control what color of pants you wear is like 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.120 is a thing that just on a foot of mental 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:00.400 level would not be accepted with any other kind of 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:04.319 authority that everyone immediately recognizes. Wait, what the fuck that's 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:07.359 completely unhinged. Why should someone have the ability to tell 0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:10.000 you like, no, you have to wear this color pants, 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:11.959 or you can't pay your rents and you can't eat 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:13.359 oh yeah no. 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:16.680 And this is kind of the despotism of management that 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:17.840 we're just talking about. 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:18.040 Isn't it. 0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:18.759 Yeah. 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:20.160 And this is the thing that in. 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.760 Bargaining sessions for a contract, their site is very interested 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.560 in maintaining. We've said multiple times that we want a 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:29.319 better just code policy, or at the very least, we 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:31.000 don't want to wave our right to be able to 0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:33.200 wear a union memorabilia on the floor. 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:33.920 Uh huh. 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:37.160 And because he doesn't have any better ideas, their lawyer 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:39.840 can only think to shoot that down by talking about 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:42.799 how he doesn't, you know, wear his sexuality on his 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:44.200 shirt or what. 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:44.680 Yeah. 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:47.000 Yeah, Well, because he was like, why don't you want 0:37:47.040 --> 0:37:48.520 to be able to wave your right to wear a 0:37:48.560 --> 0:37:51.920 union memorabilia on the floor, and we said, we want 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:53.800 to be able to show pride that we are unionized, 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.440 and we want to be able to have more freedom 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:56.520 for expression. 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:57.800 Uh huh. 0:37:57.840 --> 0:38:00.919 Because it's despotic to be able to have that level 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.920 of control over what somebody does. Yeah, and then he said, 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:06.719 you know, well, I don't wear my sexuality on my shirt, 0:38:06.760 --> 0:38:09.440 and then realize that it was maybe inappropriate to say that, 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:10.960 So then he talked about how he doesn't wear his 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:11.520 daughters on. 0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:15.200 His shirt, which it's a more convoluted point. 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:20.560 Yeah, well, because he's proud of his kids. 0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:24.560 I guess what are we doing here? Just come on, 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:26.720 we gotta have better arguments than. 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:31.960 This, Like, no, this guy is really full of bad arguments. 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:34.400 Yeah, if you want to hear bad arguments, you should 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:37.560 sit down on the bargaining session where their lawyer goes 0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:41.520 on kind of incomprehensible tie rades about how the free 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:44.799 market in the aggregate will make sure that the best 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.560 person will get promoted over time, or that the company 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:51.080 will become more profitable or run with the most efficiency 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:54.160 as an enterprise, because anything else would be illogical because 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:55.400 they wouldn't produce more profit. 0:38:55.840 --> 0:38:58.359 But what does that have to do with labor? Yes, 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.919 there's actually this is okay, So when I know who's 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:04.360 a lawyer once told me that, like the this is 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:06.600 this is not like a leftist this is just like 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.680 she's just like a corporate lawyer once told me that 0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:13.040 this is like the actual secret basis that doesn't exist 0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:15.719 of all corporate laws, that there is actually nothing in 0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:17.359 the law that says a company has to make more 0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:20.200 money or that they even have the right to make money. 0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.640 Like that's that that doesn't exist, Like that's not it. 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.360 That's not a thing, Like there's no, you don't actually 0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:27.080 have a legal right to make more money, like you 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:40.200 simply don't. That's just that's not how this works. The 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.200 thing that reminds me of is the other pollet is 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:45.719 David Graeber wrote about. I think you might have been 0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:47.760 quoting someone else, but I can't remember who was quoting. 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:51.799 But he writes about how the relationship between sort of 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:55.440 eloquence and violence where the less you have and this 0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:57.560 isn't somewhere in the hope of rules. He writes about 0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:01.320 how you know people who have a access to violence 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:02.920 to compel people to do something, you don't even have 0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:04.960 to speak the same language as someone. Right, you can 0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:07.799 just point a gun at them and you know they 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:11.080 have to obey you because you know they have force, right, 0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:16.319 But the less ability you have to actually use force 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.560 to get someone to do something right. So if you're 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:23.240 a village chief in there's actually a lot of conditionous 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.399 tribes that were like this, but you know you're you're 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:28.640 in like sort of the Northeast, and you don't actually 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:31.360 have the ability to compel people to do things. So 0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:33.400 if you want people to go work in the morning, 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:35.920 you have to like get up and make a giant 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:38.319 show of like, oh, I'm getting up to work in 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:40.799 the morning. Everyone follow me. Wow, look at how hard 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:43.920 I working. And you have to like convince them through oratory. 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:46.640 And you know this, this is like why all these 0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:49.680 people when when Europeans run into them, everyone is like, 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:51.319 holy shit, these are like the these are the best 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:53.839 orders of every encountered because they have to be right. 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:55.920 But the more power you have, the less eloquence you 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:58.000 have to have, which I think is like, you know, 0:40:58.000 --> 0:40:59.799 this is like a Donald Trump thing, right, It's like, yeah, 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:02.000 what what you've what you've reached disappoint in the process. 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.320 You know, you can just compel people do things through violence. 0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:06.600 You can just like talk like a fourth grader and 0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:09.440 it's fine and it doesn't matter because you just have violence. 0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:11.879 And that's what this reminds me of it, like, oh, 0:41:11.920 --> 0:41:14.439 we're the company like we have like we're fucking owned 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.359 by nasty We have all this money. We don't have 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:20.640 to make compelling arguments. We just have to like have power. Yeah, 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.040 I mean pretty much. Personally, it reads to me as. 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:25.440 Like a way to delay actually talking about any of 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:27.879 our demands at the table, because if you just eat 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:29.760 up all the time, then there's. 0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:31.280 No time to talk. Yeah. 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:34.919 Yeah, but that's also really beautiful to think about from 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:36.520 a more abstract sense. 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:40.560 Yeah. Well, also, just companies love fucking with negotiations. It's awful. 0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:43.839 I how okay, I should just start asking everyone who 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:47.280 does negotiations about this. But on average, how late should 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:49.200 their manages to show up to meetings? 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:51.799 I would say that actually both sides are equally late 0:41:54.920 --> 0:42:00.479 well to the negotiations, at least just because getting around 0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:03.120 the city is so difficult. Oh oh, so that's it's. 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.719 Like a transit thing, not like a no, no, we're 0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.120 not deliberately showing up ly as far as I know. Yeah, 0:42:10.120 --> 0:42:13.000 we just can't get in traffic. Yeah, but there should 0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:14.160 they already just be there? 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.560 Oh yeah, Well, because this is something that's actually been 0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:21.400 a delay tactic for them, is they insist that we 0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:24.680 need to split the cost equally of a bargaining space. 0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:25.879 What what? 0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:29.200 And again, we're independent, so they know that we can't 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:32.719 on a regular basis commit to that. So if you 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.440 want to donate to our unions that way, we can 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:37.560 hate to sit down in front of these people. 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:41.000 That's completely on it. Yeah, having to have the union 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:44.640 pave I've never heard of that before. That's completely deranged, 0:42:44.760 --> 0:42:46.040 that's what. 0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:50.319 And we we've even waived our right to meet in 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:51.920 a neutral space. 0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:52.800 Uh huh. 0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:54.719 So we've asked if they would be willing to meet 0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:57.359 in the office of their legal representation or if they'd 0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.480 be willing to meet in the office of our legal representation, 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:03.359 and they've said no to both because supposedly, despite being 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:07.359 the second largest union avoidance firm in the world, they've 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:10.319 said that their office doesn't have adequate space to hold us. 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:13.240 But then rental space in the city is so fucking 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:18.560 expensive that there's no feasible way to rent a space 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:20.800 for eight hours for two days. 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:21.879 You know, once a month. 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:24.800 Yeah, which is meant that we've ended up in some 0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:30.040 strange places, so college conference rooms, city hall, we work 0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:34.640 what Yeah. 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:38.560 Really know, this is the most deeply unserious company I 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.720 have ever encountered, Like, there's all. 0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:44.560 Kinds of things like that that they've employed in the 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:49.120 past year to attempt us making significant progress with negotiating. 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.480 And it wasn't until November this year that they finally 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:57.359 gave us a counter on economics after we told them 0:43:57.360 --> 0:44:00.839 we would file a bad faith bargaining charge if they didn't. Hell, yeah, 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:04.360 do you want to guess what they're counter So, for reference, 0:44:04.520 --> 0:44:07.440 our union's requesting thirty dollars an hour for bristas because 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:10.600 that's a living wage according to the MIT living wage calculator. 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:13.399 Do you want to guess what Bluebottle said they would 0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:14.680 give us eighteen? 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:16.000 No? 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:19.799 Well, actually, strangely yes, they said, right now we make 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.319 eighteen an hour. But they said they'll keep it the 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:24.040 same and they want to retain the rate to change 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:28.440 it whenever they want. They're they're making a floor. They're 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:31.400 they're committing to a floor that I then tried to 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:36.040 ask if they've ever in their history decreased wages. Uh huh, 0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:37.879 and they're like, no, I don't see why we would 0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:40.480 ever do that, And like, oh, so then this floor 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:40.960 is bullshit. 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:45.600 Actually, their baseline for negotiations is our starting position is nothing. 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:48.920 Yeah, and this is a year after negotiating with them 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:49.440 so far. 0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:51.880 Yeah, a year. It it's like okay, like I mean 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:53.360 at that that point, it's like, yeah, I don't know, 0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:56.279 like fucking are our starting position is we should have 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.960 your house? Like this is like this is like equally 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:02.960 come on, like you having their house is a more 0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:07.440 reasonable demand than our basic negotiating position is nothing, Like 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:09.040 what are we doing here? 0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:09.440 Oh? 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:12.359 No idea? 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:17.680 Just god? Yeah, I mean it answered obligatory line here 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:20.360 about how after you win an election. The most common 0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:22.480 way for UNI to fail is bargaining the first contract. 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:24.440 And companies know this. They will just do bullshit for 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.360 several years to attempt to not have you get a contract. 0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:29.879 It sucks. Yeah, yeah, fuck them. 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:32.680 It's their whole strategy. I mean, the whole like union 0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.120 avoidance of it all is they're just trying to like 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:38.480 wait us out and then fire people who are involved 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.680 and just like in their words, like let turnover do 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:45.200 its natural work. It's like, isn't this specialty coffee? Don't 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:48.000 you want people who are good at their jobs. I've 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.080 watched some of my new coworkers pull a shot that 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:55.440 I wouldn't feed to a dog like the same. 0:45:55.560 --> 0:46:00.719 Oh absolutely, why Look, you can't expect managers to know 0:46:00.760 --> 0:46:02.279 how to do things that's not their job. 0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:05.920 My manager, let me tell you. I used to have 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:08.680 to open with her like three times a week. And 0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.680 she has this very beautiful habit of as she's dialing 0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:14.520 espresso and also she does as well, she's counting cash, 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.359 she will have her phone open on TikTok and then 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:21.200 scroll through. I have this one horrific memory. It was 0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:24.360 six am and she was going through an entire TikTok 0:46:24.760 --> 0:46:28.680 storytime series for forty five minutes. And the whole story 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:30.719 time was going on, and every time it was an 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:33.120 introduction of like I don't even remember what it was about. 0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:34.520 I think it was like She's like, oh, this is 0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:37.200 my story of being like a mob boss's wife. And 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:39.840 I had to listen to that for forty five minutes 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:40.880 while opening. 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:44.680 Oh yeah, I think you should you should legally be 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.279 allowed to have her car. I think I should have 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:51.960 her house probably yeah too. Yes, it's like our starting 0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:54.480 our starting demand is the boy. Every time you pissed 0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:56.320 offs off, we get another one of your houses. 0:46:56.600 --> 0:46:59.719 Look for every TikTok watched on the clock. That's a 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:01.319 doll towards me per hour. 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:04.439 Yeah, what are we doing here? 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:06.520 They're owned by Nestli, But I don't think that there's 0:47:06.640 --> 0:47:08.680 enough money in the world that would be able to 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:09.560 give you that, Abbey. 0:47:09.640 --> 0:47:10.280 I'm so sorry. 0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:12.560 No, I don't think I'll ever receive fair compensation. 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:15.360 You can really piss off the modern monetary theory people 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.400 because they'd be like, no, even we can't account for this. 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.920 No one can account for the emotional damage. 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:30.520 We ran out of data in our federal reserve god 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:31.760 to recap. 0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:35.320 So in the past year, we've done multiple walkouts, unionized 0:47:35.400 --> 0:47:38.200 four locations in the East Bay area, and then, after 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:41.920 Abbey was fired for bullshit reasons, along with two other organizers, 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:45.880 we went on a four day strike which included both cities. 0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:49.680 And we've done this entirely as an independent union against 0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:51.200 a company that is owned by Nesli. 0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:53.319 Yeah, and interestingly, just. 0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.640 Because I'd be remiss to not mention this, the day 0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:59.120 that we ended our strike, there was an article published 0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:02.000 in Writers which was the most vibe based reporting that 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:07.000 I've ever seen, where it said Nesli explores sale of 0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:10.520 blue bottle coffee. Sources say where there's three unnamed sources 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:14.359 incredible that all say that Neslie is considering or looking 0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:18.920 into selling Blue Bottle coffee, but interestingly says here quote 0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:21.200 once source said Neslie could decide to sell the cafes 0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.680 but retain the brand's intellectual property to continue selling the products. 0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:27.840 End quote, what are we doing here this? 0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:29.600 Yeah? 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:32.600 Yeah, I mean it's interesting as a tell because personally, 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:34.080 I think it's just a scare tactic. 0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:34.479 Yeah. 0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:38.040 Yeah, Like I could consider walking into traffic. I could 0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:39.960 be looking into my options for how fast a car 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.400 would hit me, But that doesn't mean anything. 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:50.839 You didn't considering appropriating the mansion, like we're an exploratory committee. 0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:56.400 Sources say, yeah, I don't think they'd publish that in writers, 0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:58.440 but uh, it's. 0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:00.400 Interesting that they would even say that, because is like 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:02.880 the entire value that Blue Bottle offers Nestlie is to 0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:06.280 be able to put the brand onto you know, nespressopods 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:10.120 or whatever. And also just very weird timing with the 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.239 strike ending the same day comes out. 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:17.560 They are so scared, they are scared shitless and they 0:49:17.600 --> 0:49:19.760 don't know what to do about it, and they're breaking 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:25.319 last left and right, trying to maintain power. But it's 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:27.640 like Alex said earlier, like the solidarity that we have 0:49:27.760 --> 0:49:31.480 between our coworkers, it just cannot be broken by management. 0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:34.359 And even after they fired me and two of our 0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:37.400 other organizers, people still went out on the picket line. 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:38.839 We kept totally. 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:41.200 Five out of the six cafes closed in Boston and 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.080 the only reason one of them could stay open is 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.480 because all of the managers banded together to keep the 0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:47.800 Credential Center open. 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:51.120 I hate to go. 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:55.680 Say I don't think a single latte went out correctly 0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:57.960 that day, but hey, you knowast at least they can 0:49:58.040 --> 0:50:00.560 still collect their nine dollars per latte. 0:50:00.800 --> 0:50:06.160 So if you got food poisoning and the the strike 0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:10.640 for good getting certain manager coffee. 0:50:10.239 --> 0:50:12.880 If you had a bad experience during the strike at 0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:15.760 the Podential Center, just know that that was not union 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:18.400 made coffee, and we would never do that to you. 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:32.200 I think it's really beautiful that, yeah, y'all just kept 0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:35.360 fucking doing this even though they're just doing this bullshit constantly, 0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.839 and it's like, no, we're just going to keep fighting them, 0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:40.200 and they're going to get so scared that they're leaking 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.239 to the press that we're thinking about selling the thing, 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:43.560 like it. 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:48.239 We're a lot further along than I thought we would 0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:50.400 ever get. I thought they were going to fire us 0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:52.399 the day after we did the first walkout last year, 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:54.960 which is you know, I thought all the more reason 0:50:55.040 --> 0:50:56.239 to try then. 0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:58.520 Yeah, but really, it's not. 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:00.960 Tough for people that we work with to realize that 0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:04.520 they're getting a bad deal and that the reason that 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:08.439 the job sucks is because they don't get paid enough 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:11.600 to live in the city. Like I think most baristas 0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:14.200 at Blue Bottle see something like sixty percent of their 0:51:14.200 --> 0:51:18.640 income going towards rent. Because Jesus, Yeah, we did a 0:51:18.680 --> 0:51:21.319 survey on this. Let me double check to make sure 0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:22.000 that I have the. 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:24.279 Facts right. 0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:27.200 But yeah, this this is from you know, March, so 0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:29.799 it's a little bit old data. We'll do another survey soon. 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:32.760 But most Blue Bottle barista is a rent burden, spending 0:51:32.760 --> 0:51:34.680 more than thirty percent of their income on rent, the 0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:38.280 median rent paid by Blue Bottle employees being one thousand, 0:51:38.800 --> 0:51:41.120 forty five dollars, which is the equivalent of one hundred 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:43.640 and fifty Nora Lean style iced coffees. That it's one 0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:45.920 of the best selling drinks they have. Yeah, no, I know, 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:48.960 for one hundred and fifty Nola, So you two can 0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:53.040 pay the median rent by paid by Barista and then 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.120 on average it's sorry forty six percent of their income 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.080 going towards rent, with roughly a third of Barristas paying 0:51:59.120 --> 0:51:59.960 over sixty percent. 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:01.360 Oh my god. 0:52:01.760 --> 0:52:05.040 When we told all these facts to their lawyer at 0:52:05.080 --> 0:52:08.440 a bargaining session and he just said that maybe the 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:11.719 reason that we were all struggling to make ends meet 0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:14.799 was because we were paying for too many streaming services. Yeah, 0:52:14.840 --> 0:52:18.240 I know, Like it's an entirely he knows this bullshit? 0:52:18.360 --> 0:52:20.280 Did they just get like a right wing ship post 0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:21.240 to their lawyer? 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:21.640 Like? 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:24.239 Is this just like? Is this like fucking like? Is 0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:27.000 this like the fail Sun clone of Rudy Giuliani? Like 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:30.080 is this gonna start melting off? What are we doing here? 0:52:31.080 --> 0:52:36.879 Come on? I wish I could tell you. 0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:40.120 I don't know what their strategy with saying obviously false 0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:42.360 things is, but they love to do it. 0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:46.160 It's so great, you know. Okay, fuck it, I'm gonna 0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:47.839 I'm gonna I'm gonna read this quote. I was gonna 0:52:47.920 --> 0:52:50.200 use this for a different episode and I didn't, so 0:52:50.960 --> 0:52:52.920 all right, fuck it, this is I'm gonna read this 0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:55.799 line from Dan Olson's documentary In Search of Flat Earth, 0:52:55.800 --> 0:52:57.560 which is like probably the best thing that's ever been 0:52:57.600 --> 0:53:02.080 done about flat Earth, because they believe that power belongs 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:04.560 to those with the greatest will to take it. And 0:53:04.680 --> 0:53:07.560 what greater sign of will than the ability to overwrite 0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:10.719 the truth. Their will is a hammer they are using 0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:13.480 to beat reality into a shape of their choosing a 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:16.239 simple world where reality is exactly what it looks like 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:20.040 through their eyes, devoid of complexity, devoid of change, where 0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:22.560 they are right and their enemies are silent. They are 0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:24.280 trying to build a flat Earth. 0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:27.399 That's just the shit. 0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:30.000 They're just like, no, fuck you, we can say whatever 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.160 the fuck we want because we think the week is 0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:35.799 this is an expression of just power, even though we 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:38.320 know that we're lying, and you know that you're lying. 0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:40.120 Is I mean, if you. 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:42.520 Want to talk about expression of power, you should read 0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:46.520 their management's rights clause. Sorry, they're so called management's rights clause. 0:53:46.800 --> 0:53:50.040 Oh god, let me see if I can pull that up. 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:55.040 So just to clarify, So, management's rates is a clause 0:53:55.080 --> 0:53:58.960 that can be found in some union contracts because of 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:03.240 collaborationanists within unions in the fifties deciding that they actually 0:54:03.280 --> 0:54:05.480 didn't want to go for complete worker control of the 0:54:05.480 --> 0:54:07.720 means of production. They just wanted to collaborate with management 0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:09.080 in order to get a better deal for wages. 0:54:09.320 --> 0:54:10.319 I'm not going to comment on the. 0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:13.319 History of that, but that's why they feel like they 0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:16.440 can include this in negotiations. Right now, we haven't agreed 0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:18.960 to any management rates, but quote, it is agreed that 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:21.360 the management of the company's business and the direction of 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:24.080 its working forces are vested exclusively in the company, and 0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:26.760 the company retains all rights that had before the execution 0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:29.520 of this agreement unless a rate is clearly contracted away 0:54:29.520 --> 0:54:32.160 in this agreement by language that is specific and unambiguous. 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:34.560 These retained company rates include, but are not limited to, 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.480 the following examples. The right to direct and supervise the 0:54:37.480 --> 0:54:40.200 work of its employees. The right to hire, promote, demote, transfer, 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.560 and too discipline or discharge employees. The right to create 0:54:42.600 --> 0:54:45.080 or eliminate jobs, and to determine wage rates for newly 0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:47.960 created or materially modify jobs. The right to determine training 0:54:47.960 --> 0:54:50.560 requirements and provide training to employees. The right to uniform 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.080 and higher standards, the right to plan, direct, and control operations, 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:56.400 the right to determine products to be sold, services and 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:57.279 products to be. 0:54:57.200 --> 0:54:59.000 Procured, used, and or distributed. 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:02.080 The right to determine the type and quantity of machines, equipment, 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:05.120 location of cafes. The right to determine the amount and 0:55:05.239 --> 0:55:07.640 quality of work needed. The right to determine schedules of 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:10.799 cafe operations. The right to determine the number of employees needed. 0:55:10.840 --> 0:55:13.239 The right to determine the work schedule of employees. The 0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:15.719 right to lay off employees or relieve employees from work 0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:17.840 because of lack of work. The right to discontinue or 0:55:17.880 --> 0:55:21.719 introduce new or improved methods operating practices and cafes. The 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:23.960 right to change the content of jobs and the qualification 0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:26.680 for such jobs. And the right to establish, modify, and 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:30.360 enforce work rules of conduct or policies, and discipline employees 0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:35.080 who violate such rules or policies. The right to establish, modify, Oh, 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:38.080 Jesus Christ and force. 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:41.359 And I forgot how bad it is. 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:45.960 Wow, Because basically what they're saying is we want to 0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:47.799 be able to control everything that you do, and this 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:50.480 is our They never say where they believe this right 0:55:50.520 --> 0:55:52.960 comes from. They on make like an argument for naturalism, 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:55.920 where like we are vested by the universal power of 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:57.759 management to be able to do this. They don't make 0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:00.719 any historical argument for it, where oh, this is you know, 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:04.800 because of the contracts that have been negotiated since the fifties, 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:07.000 something that's fairly standard, and we think that we have 0:56:07.040 --> 0:56:10.040 the right too because of like long standing president. They 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:12.600 just think that they should be able to control fucking everything. Yeah, 0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:15.400 which is not unsurprising for Nesley. 0:56:16.000 --> 0:56:19.480 Yeah, yeah, Well, and I think there's a lot of 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:22.840 very very abstract theoretical debate you run into if you're like, 0:56:23.640 --> 0:56:27.320 instead of doing shit, you're like in theory circles about 0:56:27.360 --> 0:56:30.279 like oh is like is capital its own autonomous entity 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:32.440 or is it like a thing that's like costantly in 0:56:32.560 --> 0:56:36.160 like relation to like the actions and workers. And it's like, okay, 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:39.799 read something like this and it's like, oh no, they 0:56:39.840 --> 0:56:44.200 are so worried that they're going to have to react 0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:46.520 to what their workers are doing that they and they 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:48.440 are already doing this right like this is you know, 0:56:48.920 --> 0:56:50.920 this is this goes back to the whole like worre's 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:52.840 leaking to the media, We're going to sell the company 0:56:54.160 --> 0:56:56.440 thing that they're doing. Where it's like no, actually, like 0:56:56.520 --> 0:57:01.920 these people are so not like easily, but if you 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:05.399 were organized at all, it becomes so clear to them 0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:08.320 that they actually, oh no, wait, hold on, they're responding 0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:11.359 to us like they're not just purely the only thing 0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:13.680 that gets to like drive history for and decide literally 0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:16.160 everything about your life. The moment you like try to 0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:18.160 claw it away from them, they see how fragile it is, 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.080 and they're like, no, no, no, no, Actually, we got to spell 0:57:21.120 --> 0:57:22.800 out the fact that we got to fucking dress you 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:25.760 and whatever clothes we want you to wear. And it's like, okay, 0:57:25.760 --> 0:57:27.280 this is like a thing that only exists if you 0:57:27.320 --> 0:57:30.640 do not resist them at all, but like, no, if 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:33.120 you fucking fight them, they have to fucking write all 0:57:33.160 --> 0:57:35.200 this shit down that they think they've always been able 0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.840 to do, and it's ridiculous. 0:57:38.520 --> 0:57:41.440 And to hear it all in a bullet form, like 0:57:41.520 --> 0:57:44.000 in literally just a bullet list, like every single aspect 0:57:44.080 --> 0:57:46.840 of my life and everything that I've ever loved or 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:48.600 thought was important to me in a list of what 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:51.960 they think they can control. It's just crazy. And then 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.560 we have to go back and say, okay, well, do 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:58.200 you see how off base you are? Yeah, And then 0:57:58.240 --> 0:58:00.280 they make us sound like the crazy ones for wanting 0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:02.240 to live a good life and be able to, like, 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:04.440 you know, make ends. 0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:07.120 Meet, pay less than sixty percent over and come towards rent. 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:07.479 Yeah. 0:58:07.640 --> 0:58:10.920 Yeah, let's take a vacation maybe. 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:11.880 Yeah. 0:58:11.960 --> 0:58:14.400 One other thing that I think is a great point 0:58:14.560 --> 0:58:18.600 about how it's actually capital responding to the organization of 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:22.720 Barista's people workers whatever is. They haven't done it recently, 0:58:22.880 --> 0:58:25.960 but last summer they sent a very long winded and 0:58:26.040 --> 0:58:28.520 angry email about all the bargaining updates and press that 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:31.640 the union was getting. 0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:33.960 They're so mad at me that I'm good at my job. 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:41.200 And then this past summer, after we did two walkouts 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:43.960 in fairly quick succession and response to two different things, 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:47.000 they attempted to accuse us of an intermittent striking, just 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.000 because they were so scared they didn't know what else. 0:58:48.800 --> 0:58:51.240 To do, to try and be like, you didn't own me, 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:52.960 I'm not mad please some pot in the news that 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:53.400 I met. 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:58.200 Their lawyer even said in a bargaining session later on 0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:00.360 that he had a less than seventy five percent chance 0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:02.480 of ever winning that argument at the board. 0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:03.560 Oh my god. 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:06.920 But they were just so mad that we walked out 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:09.680 twice in May that they tried to claim that it 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:13.720 was unprotected, but that they're being benevolent by not disciplining 0:59:13.760 --> 0:59:14.440 anyone for it. 0:59:14.640 --> 0:59:17.360 God, And they. 0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:22.760 Haven't really given much of a response to our multi 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:27.960 day strike yet, aside from their lawyer emailing us earlier 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.720 this week to ask us for our entire legal justification 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:35.480 for why the terminations of Abby, Nora and Ashley were 0:59:35.520 --> 0:59:38.320 illegal and what legal justification we have to say that 0:59:38.320 --> 0:59:41.640 they're negotiating a contract in bad faith, which is like 0:59:42.320 --> 0:59:42.760 the NLRA. 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:49.919 Yeah, yeah, Like what are we doing here? God? Yeah? 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:52.240 So what's coming up next for y'all? What's the next stage? 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.760 If you or anybody that you know either works at 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:57.720 a Blue Bottle or wants to apply to a Blue 0:59:57.720 --> 1:00:00.600 Bottle to help organize it, please reach out to us 1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:03.760 by email at Blue Bottle Union at gmail dot com. 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:07.520 If you want to support our independent unionism and help 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:09.520 us remain independent and be able to go on multiple 1:00:09.560 --> 1:00:12.880 day strikes which clearly piss off our NESTLEI overlords, you 1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:16.160 can donate to us at TinyURL dot com forward slash 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:19.960 BBIU dash strike unless we're until we have a contract 1:00:20.120 --> 1:00:25.160 or they reinstate, Abby, Nora, Ashley, and fingers crossed, hopefully 1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:25.720 not myself. 1:00:26.160 --> 1:00:29.720 We're calling on a boycott of all Blue Bottle coffee products. 1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:32.960 Helly, I have no idea what the overlap between it 1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:36.000 could happen here listeners and. 1:00:35.320 --> 1:00:40.280 Customers, you'd be surprised. But I'm sure there's a lot 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:42.200 of about there. I don't know. Look, judging by the 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:44.640 shit I have heard from our listeners, I love you all. 1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:46.760 Some of you are on some wild shit if some 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:49.439 of you are not the people you would expect to be, 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:55.760 so yeah, So don't buy Blue Bottle. 1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:57.880 If some of the things that we've said about the 1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:01.280 bargaining sessions sounds two absurd to be true to you, 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:04.880 then you can go to Bluebottle Union dot org and 1:01:05.080 --> 1:01:07.680 under the tab for Buristas you can read every bargaining update, 1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:10.800 where we publish all of the proposals that the company 1:01:10.800 --> 1:01:12.760 has given us so far. You can read the shit 1:01:12.840 --> 1:01:16.640 that they make us read in the bargaining sessions. Yeah, 1:01:16.680 --> 1:01:18.680 so that's what's next in like the next month or so. 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:21.000 There's other things that we're working on that we can't 1:01:21.000 --> 1:01:21.680 talk about yet. 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:22.520 Hell yeah, hell. 1:01:22.520 --> 1:01:25.960 Yeah, love this. I'm trying so hard not to just 1:01:26.120 --> 1:01:31.720 read half the end or speech Authority is the massive 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:33.480 Tyranny is brittle. 1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:38.800 If there ever were a time to read it, there's 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:39.720 no time like the present. 1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:41.480 You know what, Fuck it, We're just we're doing it. 1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:44.120 We're doing it. The imperial need for control is so 1:01:44.240 --> 1:01:48.240 desperate because it is so unnatural. Terity requires constant effort. 1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:52.600 It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:56.280 mask of fear. Remember that, and know this. The day 1:01:56.320 --> 1:01:59.080 will come when all these skirmishes, in battles, these moments 1:01:59.120 --> 1:02:02.280 of defiance, will have flooded the banks of the empire's authority, 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:05.560 and then there will be one too many, one single 1:02:05.600 --> 1:02:10.600 thing will break the siege. Remember this, try and that's 1:02:10.600 --> 1:02:11.320 my message to you. 1:02:11.400 --> 1:02:11.600 Wall. 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:14.560 You can fight your own bosses too, and you can 1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:16.840 beat them, and you can watch them running around in 1:02:16.960 --> 1:02:19.840 terror like fucking chickens with their head cut off, and 1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:22.919 you can get shited from them that they never would 1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:24.360 have wanted to give you in the first place. 1:02:40.800 --> 1:02:44.880 So there's a revolution long forgotten that was tucked in 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:48.680 a corner of the Caribbean. Those outside of the region, 1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:51.720 it's probably quite far from mind. You know. When most 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:56.960 people think of Caribbean revolutionaries, they think of Cuba, but 1:02:57.120 --> 1:03:00.320 at the time the rise and fall of the need 1:03:00.320 --> 1:03:05.560 a revolution. What's everything? Hello, and welcome to ikea happen Here. 1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:10.000 I'm Andrew Siege. You're a Trinadian host of ikapen here, 1:03:10.440 --> 1:03:12.080 and I'm joined by. 1:03:12.960 --> 1:03:16.160 James, your American British co host. 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:18.240 American British. 1:03:18.280 --> 1:03:20.320 But yeah, I don't really know how to say that, Like. 1:03:20.400 --> 1:03:21.880 Which order should that hyphene been? 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:24.680 Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know which way which way 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:29.240 I'm supposed to hyphenate, because we don't hyphenate white people, uh, 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:34.160 which is a very American thing. But yeah, glad to 1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:36.960 be here. I always enjoy learning more about this part 1:03:36.960 --> 1:03:37.560 of the world from you. 1:03:38.440 --> 1:03:42.080 I'm glad. I'm glad. And you know, as we speak, 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:48.680 I'm hearing helicopters overhead. And no, it's really a reminder 1:03:48.800 --> 1:03:51.240 of the times that we are living in. Last night 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:55.720 there were quite a few stealth helicopters flying overhead, quite 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:58.840 close to the ground, about three of them. Wow, all 1:03:58.880 --> 1:04:02.680 the lights are off. So it's it seems to be 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:04.960 a ramping up and escalation in some ways, or just 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:09.120 a continuation of the existing military presence. 1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:11.080 Jeez. 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.600 And as we're talking about military presence, in the US, 1:04:16.440 --> 1:04:19.000 which is something that I spoke about on this podcast 1:04:19.040 --> 1:04:21.480 before you go and check it out. We're here to 1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:25.320 discuss the very recent history, positive and negative, of my 1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:29.880 northern neighbor, Grenada. So I don't want to bog anyone 1:04:29.960 --> 1:04:33.560 down with too many facts, but it's important to get 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:38.080 an idea of the context. So Grenada is the southernmost 1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:41.640 in the grouping of Caribbean islands known as the Windward Islands. 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:45.000 It's a country composed of Grenada, the island, and a 1:04:45.040 --> 1:04:50.640 few smaller islands, including Kariaku and Petimasnet. It's long been 1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:54.160 considered the Spice Isle, as the hilly mainland was and 1:04:54.240 --> 1:04:57.720 still is home to a lot of nutmeg plantations. They 1:04:57.720 --> 1:05:01.160 currently have a predominantly African population of just over one 1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:05.320 hundred and seventeen thousand, sharing a country merely three hundred 1:05:05.320 --> 1:05:08.200 and forty four kilometers squared or one hundred and thirty 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:11.240 three square miles. For reference, the five boroughs of New 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:14.439 York City collectively make up seven hundred and seventy eight 1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:17.720 point eighteen kilometers squared or three hundred point four to 1:05:17.800 --> 1:05:21.680 six square miles. So Grenada is small, you know, New 1:05:21.720 --> 1:05:25.000 York is big. But Grenada is also quite small, you know. 1:05:25.040 --> 1:05:28.240 For reference, It's slightly larger than Queen's but far less 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:31.960 populated and far less dense. So we's talking small island 1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:34.360 state par excellence. And yet it has sat at the 1:05:34.400 --> 1:05:38.120 center of one of the most critical events in Caribbean history, 1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:40.880 and it might be one of the sites of yet 1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:44.360 another such incident in light of the United States request 1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:48.040 to Grenada on October ninth to establish a temporary military 1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:52.280 radar base at the infamous Maurice Bishop International Airport, a 1:05:52.320 --> 1:05:55.760 request which has not yet received a conclusive response more 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:58.280 than a month later at the time of me recording this, 1:05:59.360 --> 1:06:01.800 so I thought it apps to finally talk about this 1:06:01.960 --> 1:06:05.280 moment in history. I went to my library and got 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:09.120 a copy of Grenada Revolution and Invasion, a companium of 1:06:09.240 --> 1:06:12.080 essays from various perspectives on the topic arranged by Patty 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:15.120 Lewis at al that provided the basis of my research, 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:19.800 particularly the essay by Miil Collins, a Grenadian poet and novelist. 1:06:20.480 --> 1:06:22.720 I also drew some of the radical background law from 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:28.280 Fundy aka Joseph Edwards, an underappreciated autonomous radical healing from 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:32.440 Jamaica who spoke about the situation in non shall escape 1:06:33.080 --> 1:06:35.600 or linked in the show notes. So I don't want 1:06:35.600 --> 1:06:37.919 to get too deep into the history prior to what's 1:06:38.000 --> 1:06:42.520 immediately relevant today's topic. Oh keep thinks brief A couple 1:06:42.720 --> 1:06:46.800 hundred Ammerindians lived in Grenada prior to the European invasion. 1:06:47.440 --> 1:06:49.760 Human settlement may have been as early as thirty five 1:06:49.840 --> 1:06:55.200 hundred BCEE, but most definitely by the second century CE. Spain, 1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:59.400 upon stumbling upon it, claimed it but never settled it. 1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:02.360 England attempted to settle it, but was driven out by 1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:07.320 the indigenous inhabitants, and eventually the island was settled and 1:07:07.360 --> 1:07:10.680 subjugated by the French, who were engaged in a protracted 1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:14.400 war against the indigenous between today's Grenada, Dominica and Saint 1:07:14.440 --> 1:07:17.840 Vincent of the Grandians throughout the seventeenth century. You know, 1:07:17.880 --> 1:07:20.680 there's this narrative that the Europeans came and they just 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:25.920 easily conquered the entirety of the Americas, and it's important 1:07:25.960 --> 1:07:29.480 to lay that myth to rest. There was, of course, 1:07:29.480 --> 1:07:32.520 a very tragic great dyeing that was responsible for a 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:35.960 vast majority of the indigenous population losing their lives to 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:39.880 the disease in some cases intentionally weaponized by the Europeans, 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:45.640 but despite differences in their weaponry, the Europeans didn't have 1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:48.760 an easy time conquering the islands, or conquering the Americas 1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:52.760 at all. In many cases they did not succeed in 1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:57.200 concrete islands for many decades or centuries or struggle, but 1:07:57.280 --> 1:08:00.840 eventually Crenado was established as a colony of over fifteen 1:08:00.840 --> 1:08:05.240 thousand slaved Africans by seventeen sixty three. A year prior, 1:08:05.440 --> 1:08:08.440 in seventeen sixty two, Britain took over the island from 1:08:08.480 --> 1:08:10.680 the French as part of the Seven Years' War, and 1:08:10.760 --> 1:08:13.880 the island was formally ceded to Britain in seventeen sixty three. 1:08:14.400 --> 1:08:16.760 By eighteen oh seven, Britain had brought one hundred and 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:21.439 fourteen thousand slaves to Grenada. By eighteen thirty eight, slavery 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:25.919 was abolished. In eighteen seventy seven, Grenada became a Crown colony, 1:08:25.960 --> 1:08:30.160 and fast forward a little further. Under modified Crown colony status, 1:08:30.800 --> 1:08:35.040 the wealthiest four percent of Canadians were allowed to vote. 1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:39.719 Eric Geary founded the Grenader United Labor Party or GULP 1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:44.000 in nineteen fifty, initially as a trade union, which led 1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:47.120 to the nineteen fifty one General Strike for better work 1:08:47.120 --> 1:08:51.559 than conditions. Buildings were set on fire in this time, 1:08:51.880 --> 1:08:54.880 and this is in a broader regional context of radicalism 1:08:54.960 --> 1:08:58.400 and agitation for independence in the post World War II reality, 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:02.120 which would intensify after many of the islands had already 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:08.200 gained the independence. Eventually, Grenada got elections based on universal 1:09:08.200 --> 1:09:12.080 adult suffrage in nineteen fifty one and Eric Gary's party 1:09:12.240 --> 1:09:17.000 gulp on. This is before they got independence, though, in 1:09:17.040 --> 1:09:19.320 a time when the English speaking Caribbean was trying to 1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:22.960 establish a West Indies Federation between nineteen fifty eight and 1:09:23.000 --> 1:09:26.720 nineteen sixty two. It didn't succeed. Jamaica succeeded, and then 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:29.439 chernad so it fell apart, and after the fall of 1:09:29.439 --> 1:09:33.679 the federation, Grenada became an associated state in nineteen sixty seven, 1:09:34.240 --> 1:09:38.160 then finally gained full independence from Britain in nineteen seventy four, 1:09:38.720 --> 1:09:41.599 again under the leadership of Eric Gary, who became the 1:09:41.640 --> 1:09:45.599 first Prime Minister of Grenada. The late sixties and early 1:09:45.640 --> 1:09:49.000 seventies were a radical time in general, so that's set 1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:52.120 in the stage for what comes next in Grenada. The 1:09:52.240 --> 1:09:56.160 rise of the New Jewel movement led by Maurice Bishop. 1:09:57.120 --> 1:10:00.240 You see, as FUNDI found. In this time, we also 1:10:00.280 --> 1:10:05.480 had quite a few other confrontations going on across the Spanaphone, Francophone, 1:10:05.560 --> 1:10:09.360 Dutch of Phone and Anglophone Caribbeans. In nineteen sixty five 1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:12.839 you had the popular revolt in the Dominican Republic against 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:16.280 the military coup that was drowned in blood by the 1:10:16.400 --> 1:10:19.600 US invasion. In nineteen sixty seven, you had a spontaneous 1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:23.400 rebellion of agricultural workers in Guadelup. Nineteen sixty eight, black 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:26.599 folks in Bermuda rioted against the racist and clueless control 1:10:26.640 --> 1:10:29.640 it dominated the island. In nineteen sixty nine, there was 1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:33.240 a violent confrontation against US soldiers by students and workers 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:37.960 protesting the US occupation of the Panama Canal Zone. Kurisau 1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:42.120 was shaken by wildcatch, strikes of workers, riots by employed 1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:45.280 and unemployed as well. Labor unrest is breaking out in Surinam, 1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:49.040 leading to general strike. Antiga had riots, strikes and demonstrations 1:10:49.080 --> 1:10:53.160 over several years. Jamaica had workers at the Western Meatpackers 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:57.360 established democratic control of their trade union local, taking full 1:10:57.400 --> 1:11:01.080 control over their union dues and negotiating the employer without 1:11:01.120 --> 1:11:05.000 official mediators to manage the sugar workers and the local 1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:10.839 community directly, and of course infamously. In nineteen seventy Triniad 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:14.840 was shaken up as workers, academics and small farmers linked 1:11:14.880 --> 1:11:17.280 up against the system led by the government of Prime 1:11:17.320 --> 1:11:22.280 Minister Eric Williams, and after years of his rule under 1:11:22.280 --> 1:11:26.040 the Sloga and Master Day Done, the people erupted against 1:11:26.040 --> 1:11:29.439 the new or colonial system. Despite being ruled by this 1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:32.680 black leader, the hundreds of people in the streets championed 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:37.000 black power, understanding what was needed was a people's politics 1:11:37.000 --> 1:11:41.160 in which new institutions could emerge. This black power revolution 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:43.880 in Trindad was inspired in part by the black civil 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:46.760 rights struggle in the United States, while also seeking into 1:11:46.800 --> 1:11:50.599 unite the African and Indian populations in Trinad. After an 1:11:50.600 --> 1:11:54.360 attempted mutiny by the army and Venezuela and American gun 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:57.960 boats standing by ready to intervene, the military surrendered. The 1:11:58.000 --> 1:12:01.439 revolutionary initiative shifted away from the man and doctor Derk 1:12:01.479 --> 1:12:05.680 Williams was saved. By nineteen seventy three, a few armed 1:12:05.760 --> 1:12:09.519 gorillas remained in the hills of Trinidad, but Eventually, their 1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:14.000 struggle was snuffed out. By nineteen seventy five, in Guadeloupe 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:18.280 had wildcat strikes taking place. Guyana had wildcat strikes against 1:12:18.320 --> 1:12:22.400 the American and Canadian owned Boux Side companies. Surinam had 1:12:22.439 --> 1:12:26.720 another general strike. Saint Lucia experience with wildcat strike. Dominica 1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:31.919 attempted to seize the British owned Castle Bruce Estates. In Jamaica, 1:12:32.400 --> 1:12:36.280 there was a wave of appropriations from banks, warehouses, stores, 1:12:36.400 --> 1:12:40.720 batting shops and more cross Kingston and demonstrations initiated by 1:12:40.720 --> 1:12:44.280 students and workers against police brutality and for the release 1:12:44.320 --> 1:12:47.880 of prisoners. And in nineteen seventy nine Nicaragua had their 1:12:47.880 --> 1:13:01.760 revolution against the US Allied government. While all of this 1:13:01.840 --> 1:13:04.920 is going on, Grenada had a population of less than 1:13:04.960 --> 1:13:09.439 one hundred thousand people. It had just become independent under 1:13:09.520 --> 1:13:14.439 Eric Geary and are Gary's an interesting fella because you'll 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:19.519 see some aspects of him mirrored later on. He came 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:23.760 to power in nineteen fifty one with the wave of 1:13:24.120 --> 1:13:27.240 universal suffrage. He was twenty nine years all at the time. 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:30.360 He had previously been a worker organizer in Aruba and 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:33.360 was expelled from the island for that very reason. He 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:37.240 spent decades in politics as a champion of agricultural workers. 1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:41.639 But younger generations were not as excited about him. They 1:13:42.160 --> 1:13:47.040 recognized his financial corruption, his pensiont for rigged elections, and 1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:50.800 of course his use of secret police that were repressive 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:56.320 to the people. So as greators making steps towards becoming independent, 1:13:57.000 --> 1:14:00.120 the people did not want him to be the leader 1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:04.759 of independence. There were strikes against him even before the ravation. 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:08.120 But see Gary was karen on this tradition that was 1:14:08.120 --> 1:14:10.559 set up by the British. Whether he knew it or not, 1:14:11.560 --> 1:14:14.160 he and may have had this radical start as a 1:14:14.160 --> 1:14:17.840 worker organizer, but he came to carry on colonial interests. 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:20.479 You know. He started off as a union man, but 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.920 he turned against the workers, and even the British at 1:14:24.960 --> 1:14:27.360 one point had been scared of him as an organizer 1:14:27.800 --> 1:14:31.880 and had trepidations about him as an independent leader. But 1:14:31.960 --> 1:14:35.639 they still chose him and preferred him at the risk 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:38.400 of maybe a more radical version of him leading an 1:14:38.400 --> 1:14:45.240 independent grenader. And then came the New Dual Movement. Now 1:14:45.280 --> 1:14:48.520 the New Jewel movement is actually a combination of two groups. 1:14:48.720 --> 1:14:51.880 You had the movement for assemblies of the People, which 1:14:51.920 --> 1:14:54.799 was founded by Maurice Bishop, a lawyer who had studied 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:58.760 in Britain. And you had the joint endeavor for welfare 1:14:58.960 --> 1:15:02.640 education and the or a Jewel which is founded by 1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:07.599 Howard University economic student Unison Whitman. They were also joined 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:11.360 by Bernard Cord, an economics lecturer at UIs in Augustin 1:15:11.479 --> 1:15:15.280 in Trinando, Tobago. So at first, in terms of their politics, 1:15:15.760 --> 1:15:18.679 they really wanted popular assemblies and that sort of thing. 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:21.960 But actually, let me get into the background of the 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:25.280 Caribbean left. I see in the nineteen fifties there was 1:15:25.360 --> 1:15:28.479 an upheaval. You know, radicals had been shifting from the 1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:31.519 sort of Stalinism that had become popular in the post 1:15:31.520 --> 1:15:37.360 War two era towards a more critical sort of Trotskyism 1:15:37.680 --> 1:15:42.360 or Maoism see lar James and George Patmore, both based 1:15:42.400 --> 1:15:46.759 in London, were already advocating independence for Africa and the Caribbean, 1:15:47.200 --> 1:15:51.160 rejecting the Stalinist idea that liberation should wait until after 1:15:51.280 --> 1:15:55.240 World War Two see. R. James is an interesting figure 1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:59.160 politically to me because while he was ostensibly a Trotskyist, 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:02.880 he was in many ways unorthodox in his approach to 1:16:03.000 --> 1:16:04.200 those politics. 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:08.800 Yeah, Cela James's book Trying to Remember. It's called Beyond 1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:10.800 a Boundary or Beyond the Boundary. 1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:11.520 Beyond the Boundary. 1:16:11.840 --> 1:16:14.160 Yeah, it's a great books. The only book about cricket 1:16:14.160 --> 1:16:16.320 that I've ever read, and that's the only one that 1:16:16.360 --> 1:16:19.400 I've ever enjoyed. Not a big cricket appreciate it, but 1:16:19.680 --> 1:16:23.000 as a sports historian that that book was foundational to 1:16:23.960 --> 1:16:27.519 like how I how I approached my dissertation, and like 1:16:28.400 --> 1:16:31.080 as such, I've always had a really like a soft 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:33.960 spot for him as someone who you know, did sports 1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:36.160 for a living in academia for a living. I saw 1:16:36.240 --> 1:16:38.439 like a really positive example of the role that both 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:42.599 of those can play in like liberation struggles in his writing. Yeah, Yeah, 1:16:42.640 --> 1:16:44.800 it's when I'd encourage everyone to read if you're looking 1:16:44.840 --> 1:16:47.320 for a book. It's like his writing is very readable, 1:16:47.640 --> 1:16:51.080 in his historical writing, like which I at the time 1:16:51.120 --> 1:16:52.479 of my life, when I was in grad school, I 1:16:52.520 --> 1:16:55.200 very much appreciated someone who wrote something that wasn't like 1:16:56.160 --> 1:16:59.080 self consciously trying to be dense and impenetrable to make 1:16:59.080 --> 1:17:03.759 them seem intelligent faced. His intelligence comes through just fine. 1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:07.400 Indeed, Indeed, I've had a soft spot for him as 1:17:07.479 --> 1:17:11.400 well for some time, particularly after reading The Black Yakabins. 1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:13.800 Yeah, he used to assign that one a lot. 1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:17.640 And I would say that the Caribbean left at the 1:17:17.680 --> 1:17:19.679 time also had a bit of a soft spot for him, 1:17:20.080 --> 1:17:23.519 because they were heavily influenced by his writings, you know, 1:17:23.600 --> 1:17:28.000 in his nineteen fifty six pamphlet Face and Reality, which 1:17:28.000 --> 1:17:31.880 was about the Hungarian Revolution, ended up becoming a profound 1:17:32.040 --> 1:17:37.000 influence on Westerndian radicals as it had revealed the potential 1:17:37.080 --> 1:17:41.240 of workers' counsils and done a lot to expose the 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:46.240 authoritarianism of the Soviet model. This is something that Bundy 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:49.200 wrote about and highlighted as he's given his sort of 1:17:49.640 --> 1:17:54.200 discussion of the origins and trajectory of the Caribbean Left. 1:17:54.760 --> 1:17:58.160 So in the nineteen sixties and seventies, radical thought across 1:17:58.200 --> 1:18:02.280 the Caribbean was shaped by the more democratic socialist ideals. 1:18:02.960 --> 1:18:06.640 They had movements like Jamaica's Young Socialist League, Trindad's New 1:18:06.680 --> 1:18:10.599 Beginning Movement, and Creator's New Duel Movements. They were all 1:18:10.640 --> 1:18:14.559 inspired by James and by grassroots workers' councils rather than 1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:20.519 the typical Soviet orthodoxy. Of course, the Caribbean left was 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:26.000 not immune to conflict or division. There were conflicts between 1:18:26.040 --> 1:18:29.760 those who were more loyal to stylists or pro Soviet positions, 1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:35.120 and that led to some splits within unions and political movements. Now, 1:18:35.160 --> 1:18:39.000 initially the New Dual Movement was leaning in that participatory 1:18:39.280 --> 1:18:42.720 democratic direction, but eventually they ended up going in to 1:18:42.800 --> 1:18:46.639 studying Marxism Leninism more not really at first they mainly 1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:51.000 wanted Gary out, but later they went into Marxism Leninism 1:18:51.160 --> 1:18:54.840 and transformed the movement into a proper political party of 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:59.360 the vanguard variety. In an effort to unseat Gary. They 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:05.320 started building some momentum and immediately based consequences. In nineteen 1:19:05.360 --> 1:19:09.080 seventy three, Bishop Whiteman and others got beaten up and 1:19:09.200 --> 1:19:13.960 arrested by Gary's secret police multiple times. Bishop's own father 1:19:14.720 --> 1:19:18.519 was shot and killed by Gary's forces. Wow and the 1:19:18.640 --> 1:19:21.320 high schoolers were also taking a stand against Gary at 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:25.719 the time, were facing repression and violence. Now, in nineteen 1:19:25.760 --> 1:19:30.400 seventy four, independence was one, but sadly under Gary and 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:34.000 his notorious secret police, which were by the way, called 1:19:34.520 --> 1:19:39.400 the Mongoose Gang. Now, there was already suspicions of potential 1:19:39.439 --> 1:19:43.320 election fraud, and it wasn't helped by the fact that 1:19:43.640 --> 1:19:47.600 his mongoose gang was known to intimidate people. But in 1:19:47.640 --> 1:19:52.160 nineteen seventy six, despite this for a political landscape, Bishop 1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:56.400 won a leadership role as opposition and became known across 1:19:56.400 --> 1:19:59.360 the country in our country as small as as grenader, 1:19:59.760 --> 1:20:04.760 as someone charismatic, personable, relatable. The New Jeal movement started 1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:07.479 to build a reputation for being connected to the people, 1:20:08.000 --> 1:20:11.639 engage with students, engage with pro bono work. In some cases, 1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:14.880 as I mentioned, some of them are lawyers, and they 1:20:14.920 --> 1:20:17.639 were youthful. They're bringing a youthful energy to the sort 1:20:17.640 --> 1:20:22.800 of old god colonial era politics of Eric Gary and 1:20:22.840 --> 1:20:35.680 his ILK. So the story of how the New jew 1:20:35.720 --> 1:20:40.360 Movement came into power is actually a bit humorous to me. 1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:45.120 On the thirteenth of March nineteen seventy nine, Gary went 1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:48.240 to the UN meeting in New York that was happening 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:50.800 at the time, and as the saying goes, when the 1:20:50.880 --> 1:20:54.840 cat's away, the mice will play. In this case, while 1:20:54.840 --> 1:20:57.400 the cat was away, the New Dual Movement pulled off 1:20:57.400 --> 1:21:01.479 a coup, a completely bloodless coup. They to control of 1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:04.240 the army, barracks and the radio. When they went on 1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:06.320 the radio, and this is the funny part to me, 1:21:06.680 --> 1:21:09.519 they told people to go to police stations and demand 1:21:09.640 --> 1:21:13.600 that they put up white flags of surrender. And the 1:21:13.640 --> 1:21:16.040 population was so anti geary that they did it. Wow, 1:21:16.040 --> 1:21:18.559 they just walked up in civilize stations and they're like, yeah, 1:21:18.600 --> 1:21:21.200 put up these white flags, and the police shid. Yeah, 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:25.000 sure that was that. That's how the neudeal movement came 1:21:25.040 --> 1:21:25.599 into power. 1:21:25.920 --> 1:21:28.960 Yeah, a, this is such a fascinating time in history, right, 1:21:29.040 --> 1:21:32.240 Like I used to teach a class about culturing colonialism 1:21:32.400 --> 1:21:34.920 back in the day, and we would talk a lot 1:21:34.960 --> 1:21:38.400 about like this time period, like the post wind Rush 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:44.679 period where like Caribbean political culture was very influential even 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:49.960 in the metropoli, right in Britain specifically, Like this is 1:21:50.000 --> 1:21:54.120 when we have like scar music and then punk music 1:21:54.439 --> 1:21:57.400 arriving from that, which is a serious political force in 1:21:57.479 --> 1:21:59.320 the twentieth century. Like it's easy for people to let 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.400 sniff at that whatever. But and that's the reason I 1:22:02.439 --> 1:22:04.920 am the way I am so like, I guess I 1:22:05.000 --> 1:22:08.720 have a fondness for it. But also like the state's 1:22:08.960 --> 1:22:16.200 capacity for violence and surveillance hasn't caught up to the 1:22:16.280 --> 1:22:20.280 capacity for mass communication yet. And so you have these 1:22:20.320 --> 1:22:23.880 movements which can mobilize a ton of people and the 1:22:23.920 --> 1:22:28.639 state isn't like all up in them with informers and like. 1:22:29.520 --> 1:22:32.439 It can either respond as a Soviet Union did in 1:22:32.560 --> 1:22:35.479 Hungry right, with tanks that's where we get the word 1:22:35.479 --> 1:22:39.320 tanky from, or it can crumble like by people turning 1:22:39.400 --> 1:22:40.639 up of the cops to surrender. 1:22:40.760 --> 1:22:40.840 Like. 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:45.360 It's just a fascinating, like little to three decade period 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:49.840 in history before the state I guess recovers its advantage 1:22:49.880 --> 1:22:51.680 in terms of violence and surveillance. 1:22:52.400 --> 1:22:56.040 Yeah, I'm of that this time because I mean they 1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:59.880 didn't have the social media and stuff to connect people 1:23:00.960 --> 1:23:05.160 and you know, advertise they were having this this proof 1:23:05.240 --> 1:23:08.680 test or this action or this whatever. Yeah, but the 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:11.479 networks were still there. You know, they were organic and 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:18.960 they were motivated by a genuine sense that seriative was actionable. 1:23:19.240 --> 1:23:19.439 Yeah. 1:23:19.760 --> 1:23:21.479 You know, I think we have this sort of twenty 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:27.000 first century malays of cynicism. It's like that was tried before, 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:29.760 you know. Yeah, every time we look at something, we 1:23:29.760 --> 1:23:32.040 could just say, oh, that was tried before, and they failed. 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:35.320 When we look back at history, people who tried those things. 1:23:35.400 --> 1:23:36.720 They didn't know if it was going to work out 1:23:36.840 --> 1:23:39.719 or not. They just tried it. I wouldn't be surprised 1:23:39.720 --> 1:23:41.800 if I was a fly on the wall on the 1:23:41.920 --> 1:23:45.240 day of the school if the neudual movement guys were 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:50.479 just like, wait, what that actually worked? Yeah, exactly, Like 1:23:50.640 --> 1:23:53.120 not to take away from their plan and an organization 1:23:53.720 --> 1:23:57.760 and you know, the genuine grassroots support that they had. 1:23:58.479 --> 1:23:59.679 It's still a swing. 1:24:00.120 --> 1:24:02.479 Yeah, totally. At some point you have to roll the 1:24:02.520 --> 1:24:06.800 dice right and see how it goes, Like in this case. 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:10.040 The role of critical success, I'd see, yeah, yeah, it's. 1:24:09.880 --> 1:24:14.800 A natural twenty the dragon's term. So I'd really like 1:24:14.800 --> 1:24:16.280 to ned out in this period. This is like the 1:24:16.400 --> 1:24:19.760 heyday of pirate radio, right where you have people broadcasting 1:24:19.880 --> 1:24:23.360 but like outside of state control. And it's a really 1:24:23.400 --> 1:24:28.000 interesting time for culture and music. Like scar music explicitly 1:24:29.000 --> 1:24:32.240 explicitly begins in an anti racist way, right, Like it 1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:36.360 calls itself two tone of music because bands were often 1:24:36.439 --> 1:24:39.760 look multi racial, and like, it's really interesting that we 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:43.800 have this whole cultural movement which owes a lot to 1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:47.320 the wind Rush generation. But like you said, it's questioning 1:24:47.360 --> 1:24:53.360 the both capitalist and also Marxist orthodoxies in a way 1:24:53.400 --> 1:24:56.200 that I know I really wish. I mean a lot 1:24:56.240 --> 1:24:59.080 of people do today, don't get me wrong, but I 1:24:59.120 --> 1:25:01.160 wonder if we could all those people now, that you'd 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:04.759 have people who were like dedicated vanguard mark shifts again, 1:25:05.280 --> 1:25:09.719 like you know, it just seems say sad noise. 1:25:11.160 --> 1:25:13.080 Yeah, I mean I think we could say the same 1:25:13.080 --> 1:25:16.760 thing about a lot of people's current politics. I'm sure 1:25:16.760 --> 1:25:19.080 if you went back in the past and were like, 1:25:19.160 --> 1:25:21.960 you know, people are actually trying to be trod wives 1:25:22.080 --> 1:25:25.080 right now in twenty five you want to talk to 1:25:25.160 --> 1:25:27.320 the woman who had like no ability to open a 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:30.880 bank account, and we're trying to escape financial abuse, to 1:25:30.880 --> 1:25:33.200 rest abuse, all these different things, and they're like, oh, 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:38.880 you know, there's actually a whole internet a trend of like, yeah, 1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:42.720 your husband should control all your finances. Actually yeah, I mean, 1:25:42.840 --> 1:25:45.519 of course that kind of sentiment never went away, but 1:25:45.960 --> 1:25:48.880 it's popularization definitely debunks. I think this sort of notion 1:25:49.120 --> 1:25:54.400 that that progress quote unquote is something that is inevitable 1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:55.400 or irreversible. 1:25:56.120 --> 1:25:58.519 Yeah, definitely, Yeah, that's right. I mean you can even 1:25:58.520 --> 1:26:01.760 travel across the world and I can only imagine how 1:26:01.760 --> 1:26:04.000 that would be received in Russia ava right to tell 1:26:04.040 --> 1:26:07.040 their friends in the women's movement that there are Western 1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:09.000 women who aspire to be tradwife. I mean, I'm sure 1:26:09.000 --> 1:26:13.680 they're aware they have the Internet, but yeah, it's certainly yeah, 1:26:13.760 --> 1:26:15.760 this idea that we can only progress or move in 1:26:15.800 --> 1:26:16.320 one duration. 1:26:16.960 --> 1:26:19.799 Yeah, that's how the New Droal movement came into power, 1:26:20.320 --> 1:26:25.200 and upon getting to that position, they established the People's 1:26:25.360 --> 1:26:30.240 Revolutionary Government or PRG, which is led now by the 1:26:30.360 --> 1:26:35.800 Prime Minister of Grenader Maurice Bishop. They were considered legitimate, 1:26:36.040 --> 1:26:40.720 of course, because they did have the people's mandate, but 1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:45.360 they opted not to solidify that legitimacy with an election, 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:50.880 and they also went on to ban other parties. So 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:54.120 in the next episode, I want to get into what 1:26:54.320 --> 1:26:58.519 exactly they did when they were in power in broad strokes, 1:26:58.600 --> 1:27:01.760 all they hit and miss with the economy and politics 1:27:01.760 --> 1:27:03.960 over the course of their four years, and how it 1:27:04.040 --> 1:27:08.880 culminated in an internal split, multiple killings, and a US 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:11.599 in vision. But if you want the details and how 1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:14.599 all that played out, you'll have to tune in next time. 1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:18.040 We'll get into the outcome of the PRG, the flaws, 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:22.519 the revolution, it's downfall, and where Grenia stands today. But 1:27:22.640 --> 1:27:26.920 before we wrap up, any final thoughts, James. 1:27:27.439 --> 1:27:29.000 I feel okay, Yeah, I just had lots of them. 1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:32.400 I don't know. Yeah, this is a fascinating period and 1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:37.080 like now, as much as there ever has been, it's 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:40.200 a vital time for us to study this rightly. As 1:27:40.240 --> 1:27:42.920 the person who's taught in American schools and universities, this 1:27:42.960 --> 1:27:46.080 one doesn't come up very much. It's certainly not like 1:27:46.160 --> 1:27:49.240 in the required teaching syllabi in anywhere that I've taught. 1:27:49.920 --> 1:27:53.799 And I think as we return to like Monroe Doctrine 1:27:53.880 --> 1:27:57.640 two point zero or whatever, whatever we're doing the United States, 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:01.400 it's doing in the Western hemisphe right now, it's vital 1:28:01.439 --> 1:28:07.320 to understand the role it has played in suppressing progressive 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:09.479 political movements in the last century. 1:28:10.040 --> 1:28:12.799 Yeah, I think, you know, as you mentioned, it's already 1:28:12.920 --> 1:28:17.599 in the typical history and historical accounts that it's taught 1:28:17.680 --> 1:28:22.040 to students. It's just I think I'm marveled sometimes at 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:26.760 you know, that's that's exactly how empire functions. Yeah, you know, 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:29.639 the acts forgets what the tree remembers is the famous 1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:33.439 say it so something like the US's operations and Grenada 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:36.040 or anywhere else in the world, in all the many 1:28:36.040 --> 1:28:40.240 places they've intervened, I may not even muster a passing 1:28:40.320 --> 1:28:43.960 mention and a sentenence even in a historical class, in 1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:46.519 a history class the United States, And yet it is 1:28:46.880 --> 1:28:50.800 pivotal to the histories and self identities up to the 1:28:50.840 --> 1:28:54.960 present day of entire regions and people's You know, it 1:28:55.000 --> 1:29:00.720 may be a footnote, if so much, in these curriculums 1:29:00.760 --> 1:29:03.280 in the United States, but it's one of the most 1:29:04.160 --> 1:29:09.200 recent and raw incidents of violence and trauma thats take 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:10.400 place in the Caribbean. 1:29:10.960 --> 1:29:11.160 Yeah. 1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:13.759 Absolutely, and they're not independent history. 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:18.479 Yeah. When Trump was first assuming office this time, there 1:29:18.520 --> 1:29:21.000 was a brief moment when they were talking about returning 1:29:21.000 --> 1:29:24.200 to colonizing Panama. If you can cast your mind that 1:29:24.280 --> 1:29:26.200 far back, he has flood. 1:29:25.960 --> 1:29:28.240 The zone quite successfully. But I do recall that. 1:29:29.200 --> 1:29:32.240 But yeah, I had been in Panama two months before that. 1:29:32.680 --> 1:29:34.960 And I think the United States, a large portion of 1:29:34.960 --> 1:29:37.639 the population either doesn't know or is forgotten that, like 1:29:38.400 --> 1:29:43.320 independence from American sort of neo colonialism, is integral to 1:29:43.400 --> 1:29:46.120 Panamanian identity. Like I don't think they'd realized quite how 1:29:46.760 --> 1:29:49.960 unwilling to accept going back to that Panamanian people. 1:29:49.720 --> 1:29:55.680 Were, Yeah, there's a long struggle, yes, to eke out independence. 1:29:55.680 --> 1:29:58.960 I mean even now there's you know, US New Kleans, 1:29:58.960 --> 1:30:02.080 Somemos alive and well in Panama in many ways. Yeah, 1:30:02.360 --> 1:30:05.599 but what gains they have yain is you know, something 1:30:05.960 --> 1:30:07.280 they're not well then to lose. 1:30:07.600 --> 1:30:11.519 Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, I mean the United States supports 1:30:11.560 --> 1:30:14.400 people through Panama. The Biden administration sent its Secretary of 1:30:14.479 --> 1:30:19.800 Homeland Security to the inauguration of the Panamanian president. The 1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:27.920 US funds Panamanian deportations did under the Biden administration, including 1:30:28.000 --> 1:30:31.000 of people who have no criminal record, Like, we have 1:30:31.120 --> 1:30:35.760 effectively externalized our border regime to Panama in the way 1:30:35.760 --> 1:30:39.120 that we've also done to the Dominican Republic and Haiti. Right, Like, 1:30:39.960 --> 1:30:41.880 I guess what I'm saying is I don't want people 1:30:41.960 --> 1:30:43.880 to think that this is a one off that like 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:49.599 either the Trump stuff is a massive leap from previous policy. 1:30:50.040 --> 1:30:52.400 It's a change in scale, not in kind, or that 1:30:53.400 --> 1:30:55.799 that you know, the United States hasn't done this before, 1:30:55.880 --> 1:30:58.040 and it has some history of doing this in the 1:30:58.080 --> 1:30:58.839 Western hemisphere. 1:30:59.600 --> 1:31:05.519 Indeed, so on that rather depressing note, Yeah, well we'll 1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:09.400 leave it here for it could happen here, but you 1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:11.680 can join us for the next episode, when we will 1:31:11.720 --> 1:31:15.320 get into exactly what took place in Grenada and where 1:31:15.479 --> 1:31:19.600 Grenada stands today. Till then we'll power to all the 1:31:19.680 --> 1:31:40.640 people peace. Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. 1:31:40.840 --> 1:31:45.920 I'm Andrew Sage, your host, and I'm joined by James again. 1:31:46.640 --> 1:31:48.799 Excited to be here again. I enjoyed the last episode. 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:51.360 Yes, another host of it could happen here. There are 1:31:51.400 --> 1:31:58.880 two of us, so James's American and British or British 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:04.960 America and how we want to order that? And I'm Trinidadian, 1:32:05.680 --> 1:32:07.120 as you may or may not be able to tell, 1:32:07.800 --> 1:32:11.280 but in Trinidad there are actually a lot of Grenadians 1:32:11.360 --> 1:32:15.040 and descendants of Grenadians. Between our islands. It has been 1:32:15.040 --> 1:32:19.880 a lot of population exchange, mostly in one direction. But 1:32:20.280 --> 1:32:23.080 we're here to talk about a notable point in the 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:26.679 history for my neighbor in Ireland, Grenada. If you missed 1:32:26.720 --> 1:32:28.439 part one, you should go and give it a listen. 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:32.840 The gist is that, after drawn out efforts to gain independence, 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:36.960 Grenada finally did so in nineteen seventy four, but unfortunately, 1:32:37.160 --> 1:32:40.640 under the rule of Eric Geary, an oppressive fixture of 1:32:40.720 --> 1:32:44.880 politics that the people want it out. The underdog, the 1:32:45.000 --> 1:32:48.160 New Jewel Movement, led by Maurice Bishop, pulled off a 1:32:48.320 --> 1:32:51.599 blood less coup while Gary was at a UN meeting 1:32:51.760 --> 1:32:55.840 in New York, and thus the People's Revolutionary Government was formed, 1:32:56.280 --> 1:32:59.880 led by Prime Minister Marie Bishop. The managed to stay 1:33:00.080 --> 1:33:03.320 in power from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty three. 1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:05.840 So today we're talking about what they did in that 1:33:06.000 --> 1:33:10.040 time and what happened next, including the infamous US invasion 1:33:10.160 --> 1:33:13.639 that is so often a footnote of history and its 1:33:13.720 --> 1:33:17.800 aftermath on the people of Grenada that lasts up to 1:33:17.880 --> 1:33:21.040 this day. Once again, the research for this episode leans 1:33:21.120 --> 1:33:24.599 on Grenada Revolution and invasion by Pati Lewis at Al 1:33:25.280 --> 1:33:31.840 along with None Should Escape by Joseph Edwards aka fundly So. 1:33:32.080 --> 1:33:34.800 Fresh off the victory of the New Jewel Movement, the 1:33:34.920 --> 1:33:38.880 temperature of the populace was varied but excited. You had 1:33:38.920 --> 1:33:44.000 people who had genuine revolutionary aspirations, people who were passionately 1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:47.200 anti imperialists, and then the people who just wanted better 1:33:47.280 --> 1:33:50.439 health care and education and didn't really care where who 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:51.080 it came from. 1:33:51.880 --> 1:33:53.120 And on that note, I. 1:33:53.120 --> 1:33:55.600 Would say that It's something that often flies under the 1:33:55.720 --> 1:34:02.000 radar or escapes awareness in the discourse because the most passionate, 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:05.679 the most invested, the most prominent voices, allthough we tend 1:34:05.720 --> 1:34:09.880 to hear, the vast majority of people pretty much go 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:14.240 with the flow. You know, they keep their heads down, 1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:18.080 their focus tends to be on their immediate needs, their 1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:22.960 immediate interests. And you have the idea logues in every camp, 1:34:23.000 --> 1:34:26.560 but of every persuasion who are aiming to push the 1:34:26.640 --> 1:34:30.439 country in a particular direction. But at least at this 1:34:30.560 --> 1:34:33.920 point in time, there was an ambivalence towards the how, 1:34:34.400 --> 1:34:38.080 the political how much of the population they just needed 1:34:38.120 --> 1:34:41.920 to see the results. And for a lot of people 1:34:42.520 --> 1:34:46.040 in the present day, the change, the revolution, or whatever 1:34:46.080 --> 1:34:48.040 you want to call it, isn't going to come from 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:58.240 an ideological transformation, well worded argument or arrangement of you know, prose. 1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:02.920 It's going to come from a lived experience where their 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:06.599 life has improved in some way, in some form or fashion, 1:35:07.240 --> 1:35:10.759 by action by a project that actually puts the change 1:35:10.800 --> 1:35:14.599 into practice. And so that's really what the New Dual 1:35:14.640 --> 1:35:17.519 Movement had been about from the beginning. Being part of 1:35:17.760 --> 1:35:20.800 the community, being part of the people, taking part in, 1:35:21.280 --> 1:35:23.640 you know, supporting them, which is why they had the 1:35:23.680 --> 1:35:27.120 popular mandate. And then once they got into power, a 1:35:27.200 --> 1:35:30.560 lot of their efforts were focused on, indeed, trying to 1:35:30.680 --> 1:35:36.439 actually put into place and alternatives for all the flaws 1:35:36.479 --> 1:35:38.880 that it may have had and not get to that shortly, 1:35:39.640 --> 1:35:42.320 and that they did, you know, they organized the Center 1:35:42.520 --> 1:35:46.400 for Popular Education, they organized teacher training, and sought to 1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:50.120 make secondary schools and colleges more accessible to people. They 1:35:50.200 --> 1:35:55.639 introduced maternity leave for women, yes, although notably party members 1:35:55.760 --> 1:35:59.840 who were women were pressured to come back to work 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:04.679 maybe after having children. So again we'll get to those flaws. 1:36:05.640 --> 1:36:09.439 There was still an equality in pay between men and women, 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:12.320 but the New Dual Movement did make efforts to mandate 1:36:12.400 --> 1:36:19.600 equal pay and to engage in some changes toward addressing 1:36:19.640 --> 1:36:23.599 the inequality between men and women in the country. However, 1:36:24.160 --> 1:36:27.320 a revolution was still needed within the revolution, as it 1:36:27.800 --> 1:36:31.120 has tended to be across these revolutions, you know, across 1:36:31.160 --> 1:36:35.080 these years usual stuff. Women were still doing the most 1:36:35.120 --> 1:36:38.479 of the housework and both sexes were expected to take 1:36:38.520 --> 1:36:41.560 part in political engagement. So you had women in the 1:36:41.680 --> 1:36:44.800 party in the New Dual Movement, but it was a 1:36:44.880 --> 1:36:49.960 sort of an expectation of equality in some respects, like yeah, 1:36:50.080 --> 1:36:52.599 come out to work even though you just had STrenD 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:55.679 because everybody else is coming on to work. And yet 1:36:56.080 --> 1:36:58.280 it was like, oh, yeah, you can keep on doing 1:36:58.320 --> 1:37:01.720 the housework. We're not gonna take on our load there. 1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:06.280 Yep, it's funny. I finished my book recently, but they 1:37:06.320 --> 1:37:09.480 have a chapter on gender, and there's this a communist 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:13.360 militant in Spain who was fighting at the front line. 1:37:13.880 --> 1:37:16.320 But also they would saddled with that double burden, right 1:37:16.360 --> 1:37:19.960 because women were expected to be the ones amongst, especially 1:37:19.960 --> 1:37:24.400 amongst the communists, who cooked and cleaned in addition to fighting. 1:37:25.320 --> 1:37:26.960 But she has this famous line where she says, so 1:37:26.960 --> 1:37:28.599 I didn't join the military to die with a dish 1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:34.720 cloth in my hand, which that's great. Yeah, it's a 1:37:34.760 --> 1:37:35.080 good one. 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:35.720 I like it a lot. 1:37:36.360 --> 1:37:41.280 Yeah, yeah, But flaws with engaging with gender aside. There 1:37:41.320 --> 1:37:43.920 will of course, other things the usual movement was doing 1:37:44.040 --> 1:37:48.120 that was positive. You know, they encouraged agricultural diversification and 1:37:48.240 --> 1:37:52.840 local food production, moving away from that sort of exclusive 1:37:53.080 --> 1:37:56.479 or ne exclusive dependence on nutneg production. Then I defined 1:37:56.520 --> 1:37:59.080 the colonial period. You know, they got rid of the 1:37:59.160 --> 1:38:02.960 old Westminster style parliamentary system in favor of a one 1:38:03.040 --> 1:38:07.240 party system with some elements of mass democracy. Now, the 1:38:07.760 --> 1:38:12.880 degree to which that democracy actually empowered people is debatable, 1:38:13.720 --> 1:38:19.080 but there were, you know, efforts on the record. You know, 1:38:19.160 --> 1:38:22.559 they organized public meetings to discuss the national budget. They 1:38:22.640 --> 1:38:26.200 set up workers and youth and women's and farmers organizations, 1:38:27.479 --> 1:38:32.200 and unfortunately, even though Bishop was influenced by Celar James, 1:38:32.920 --> 1:38:36.880 he continued to pursue the sort of hierarchical leadership common 1:38:37.160 --> 1:38:42.320 in Caribbean politics. And so even with these alternative organizations, 1:38:42.479 --> 1:38:45.519 you had that kind of hierarchy. But I think that 1:38:45.680 --> 1:38:50.760 is to be expected from any movement besides anarchism. Yeah, 1:38:51.520 --> 1:38:55.479 so I can't say I'm surprised. They closed the independent 1:38:55.560 --> 1:39:00.519 newspaper Torchlights after an article highlighting Erastoferian protest and lack 1:39:00.560 --> 1:39:05.439 of representation in government. So there were efforts to ensure 1:39:05.560 --> 1:39:11.040 that Brener moved towards secularism, but freedom of the press 1:39:11.240 --> 1:39:16.400 was not something that was particularly high in the priorities, 1:39:17.120 --> 1:39:22.120 and there were still prejudices against religious groups and movements 1:39:22.200 --> 1:39:27.479 like the Rastiferians that had yet to be addressed. You know, 1:39:27.600 --> 1:39:32.479 these things aren't dealt with overnight. But right, I think 1:39:32.920 --> 1:39:36.240 when all you have is a hammer, everything can sort 1:39:36.240 --> 1:39:40.080 of look like a nail. Yeah, they didn't do anything 1:39:40.240 --> 1:39:43.960 too drastic in the economic scale. For the most part. 1:39:44.040 --> 1:39:50.000 They left people's private businesses alone. They implemented some state enterprises, 1:39:50.080 --> 1:39:53.879 and they implemented some cooperative enterprises, So a fairly standard 1:39:53.920 --> 1:39:58.080 mixed economy, a mixed economy that Canterverian extents be found 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:01.560 throughout the Caribbean weather they had a revolution or not. 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:05.840 But they did establish cooperative and friendly relations with Cuba, 1:40:06.360 --> 1:40:08.880 which was a real thorn on the side of the 1:40:08.960 --> 1:40:09.639 United States. 1:40:11.120 --> 1:40:12.240 Yeah, he didn't like them. 1:40:12.960 --> 1:40:16.280 And now this is I would say from nineteen seventy 1:40:16.360 --> 1:40:19.639 nine to nineteen eighty so their first two years in power, 1:40:20.200 --> 1:40:24.160 people were nerva sited, you know, they were hopeful of 1:40:24.240 --> 1:40:30.280 the genuine decolonization and positive change taking place. But the excitement, 1:40:30.479 --> 1:40:34.880 part of the NEUVA sitement started to die down by 1:40:34.960 --> 1:40:39.280 nineteen eighty one. The People's Revolutionary Government PRG became increasingly 1:40:39.479 --> 1:40:43.880 militaristic as time went on. They organized militias and armed people. 1:40:44.560 --> 1:40:47.600 They were essentially preparing for a Geary counter coup, but 1:40:47.800 --> 1:40:52.959 also potential CIA involvement. The police were replaced with military personnel. 1:40:53.640 --> 1:40:56.760 And I think this is the trap that a lot 1:40:56.840 --> 1:41:01.080 of these projects end up falling into. This concer about 1:41:01.160 --> 1:41:07.800 the enemy within the enemy without leads these revolutionaries to 1:41:08.479 --> 1:41:14.360 cannibalize themselves, you know, the revolutionary potential and excite ones 1:41:15.040 --> 1:41:20.040 that's curtailed because there's so much fear dominating that some 1:41:20.320 --> 1:41:23.640 enemy is going to attack, some violence is going to 1:41:23.720 --> 1:41:25.519 take place that they need to prepare for. And so 1:41:25.640 --> 1:41:29.080 you over your miilitarize, ru militarize, and you stare the 1:41:29.280 --> 1:41:31.880 course of the project away from its original intentions to 1:41:31.960 --> 1:41:34.400 a point where it's not even recognizable to the people 1:41:34.479 --> 1:41:38.680 who initiated it. Yeah, you know, I'm not saying that 1:41:39.120 --> 1:41:45.639 they weren't right to be wary of US intervention. History 1:41:45.680 --> 1:41:50.280 has demonstrated as much. But it was something that the 1:41:51.000 --> 1:41:54.120 people of the country were becoming increasingly concerned about because 1:41:54.200 --> 1:42:00.719 it's a small country and it's uncommon, you know, just unusual. 1:42:00.840 --> 1:42:07.360 It's unnerving to see militia's marching on your street. Now, 1:42:07.400 --> 1:42:10.519 the Mutual movement was starting to become more focused on 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:15.080 establishing a vanguard core, the more they oriented themselves toward 1:42:15.240 --> 1:42:19.479 Marxism lenders, so like I mentioned before, they were making 1:42:19.520 --> 1:42:22.480 this shift away from the sort of popular mass democracy 1:42:22.720 --> 1:42:25.240 that people like see Lar James was talking about. The 1:42:25.360 --> 1:42:28.639 more they read and they studied the works of Marxism lenders, 1:42:29.439 --> 1:42:32.479 and there were people within the party who became more 1:42:32.520 --> 1:42:35.840 and more convinced. Again, remember the end positions of power 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:38.840 this point in time, so in positions of power, and 1:42:39.000 --> 1:42:43.240 you're reading theoretical justifications for why you need to be 1:42:43.360 --> 1:42:46.240 in power. You know you will stand by those theoretical 1:42:46.360 --> 1:42:51.200 justifications because it lines up with your interests, your self 1:42:51.280 --> 1:42:55.360 interests to you know, further your position of power, and 1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:59.240 the continuation of your role as an authority, as a leader. 1:43:00.080 --> 1:43:04.600 And so this vanguard call that they were pursuing, it 1:43:04.720 --> 1:43:09.879 ended up creating a hierarchy of in group and outgroup. 1:43:10.160 --> 1:43:12.360 You had the people who were in the vanguard the 1:43:12.400 --> 1:43:14.679 people who were out of the vanguard who didn't get picked, 1:43:14.720 --> 1:43:17.320 We didn't make the cut. You know, it felt snubbed. 1:43:18.120 --> 1:43:21.040 And this was facilities and it was fostering this an 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:24.679 air of secrecy that people in the country were beginning 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:27.840 to resent and lose trust in. Because imagine you going 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:31.360 from this sort of popular engagement with the people as 1:43:31.479 --> 1:43:34.400 you you know, take part in these efforts to push 1:43:34.720 --> 1:43:38.080 Gary out of power. Then you have this sort of secrecy, 1:43:38.160 --> 1:43:40.799 you have this sort of militarism. They're started to remind 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:43.920 people a bit of the exact Geary government that they 1:43:44.000 --> 1:43:47.759 wanted out. Then two major events took place in nineteen 1:43:47.760 --> 1:43:50.080 eighty one. There was a bombing under the stage of 1:43:50.120 --> 1:43:53.160 a rally that killed some mutes, and there was a 1:43:53.280 --> 1:43:56.880 car ambustion as well. Both of these incidents were blamed 1:43:57.040 --> 1:44:01.880 on counter revolutionaries in the country. That famous buzzworth, that 1:44:01.960 --> 1:44:07.920 famous catchphrase, that famous justification for any and every response. Yeah. 1:44:08.560 --> 1:44:10.840 So it further pushed the country and really the whole 1:44:10.960 --> 1:44:16.200 society into this culture of suspicion and repression and also 1:44:16.280 --> 1:44:19.760 resentment for the New Dual movement. The New Jeal movement 1:44:19.800 --> 1:44:23.000 wasn't responsible for the bombans, but you can imagine people 1:44:23.040 --> 1:44:25.720 were probably saying when they were at the parlor by 1:44:25.760 --> 1:44:29.679 the grocery, you know, out by the bar down the street, 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:32.760 they're saying, you know, at least they didn't have any 1:44:32.800 --> 1:44:35.680 bombits under Gary. You know, at least didn't have these 1:44:35.720 --> 1:44:39.800 combitions under Gary. Gary wasn't nice, but we didn't have 1:44:39.960 --> 1:44:46.080 terrorist attacks. And the sort of transparency and engagement people 1:44:46.120 --> 1:44:51.040 were accustomed to were starting to evaporate. The New Dual 1:44:51.120 --> 1:44:53.720 movement was starting to be seen by some as a 1:44:53.800 --> 1:44:57.880 secret society. And if your society is already small, right, 1:44:58.000 --> 1:45:01.799 just about one hundred thousand people, Yeah, having a secret 1:45:01.880 --> 1:45:06.280 society within that small society where everybody knows everybody, that's 1:45:06.360 --> 1:45:11.839 not good, especially when the revolution is so new, so nationed. 1:45:12.600 --> 1:45:15.800 You need people's trust, and especially as well because people 1:45:15.880 --> 1:45:20.920 were not ideologically for Marxism Leninism, most of them, that is, 1:45:21.320 --> 1:45:24.600 they were't ideologically for Marxism Leniness and they were ideologically 1:45:25.360 --> 1:45:29.880 neutral movement advocates. They just wanted Eric Garry out and 1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:33.479 they wanted improve once their living conditions. They didn't have 1:45:33.560 --> 1:45:37.160 a particular political ideology. They were committed too. And in 1:45:37.280 --> 1:45:40.240 this time, you know, the Caribbean is part of the 1:45:40.280 --> 1:45:42.439 rest of the world. The Cribbean is paying attention, has 1:45:42.520 --> 1:45:44.280 to pay attention to what's happening in the rest of 1:45:44.280 --> 1:45:48.240 the world, and especially within northern neighbor the United States 1:45:48.240 --> 1:45:51.720 of America, and it's very influenced at that point in time. 1:45:51.760 --> 1:45:55.839 We're talking the late seventies early eighties Cold War rhetoric 1:45:56.479 --> 1:45:59.320 that people are getting in the media. The American media 1:45:59.439 --> 1:46:02.080 was still very and continue to be very prominent in 1:46:02.240 --> 1:46:07.120 terms of what Cribbean people consume because we are English speaking. 1:46:07.160 --> 1:46:10.160 The Americans and English speaking, and they have far more resources, 1:46:10.200 --> 1:46:12.519 so their media comes to us, and a lot of 1:46:12.560 --> 1:46:15.479 the narratives that Caribbean people get come in a recent 1:46:15.560 --> 1:46:20.320 part from American narratives. So these Cold War era narratives 1:46:20.720 --> 1:46:24.640 about communism as a scare word was something that had 1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:29.919 yet to be addressed through actual demonstration of what communism 1:46:30.000 --> 1:46:33.360 could actually be for people. You know, people weren't worn 1:46:33.479 --> 1:46:37.840 over on communism yet, it was still unfamiliar, and in 1:46:37.960 --> 1:46:41.400 this time you really needed people who were open, who 1:46:41.400 --> 1:46:45.360 were accommodating, who were showing people what it meant in practice, 1:46:46.080 --> 1:46:49.960 who were, you know, sort of disarming these notions that 1:46:50.360 --> 1:46:54.360 could serve as obstacles towards people's buying into the struggle. 1:46:54.800 --> 1:46:58.400 I'm saying this as a non Marxist Lendness. I'm putting 1:46:58.400 --> 1:47:00.400 myself in those shoes. If I'm trying to get people 1:47:01.000 --> 1:47:04.320 invested in as convinced of this, that sort of secrecy 1:47:05.040 --> 1:47:06.839 it doesn't push things in a post the trajectory. 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:10.400 Yeah, it's easy for the population to perceive that you've 1:47:10.439 --> 1:47:14.280 replaced one elite with another elite, right, especially in post 1:47:14.320 --> 1:47:18.439 colonial movements, when when we do this exactly so it's 1:47:18.439 --> 1:47:20.240 a transparent word for one, you know. 1:47:20.720 --> 1:47:22.639 Yeah, I mean not to say that people didn't see 1:47:22.680 --> 1:47:26.720 the differences. Yes, correct, they went away the nuances. They 1:47:26.760 --> 1:47:28.840 could tell the difference between an Eric Gary and a 1:47:28.920 --> 1:47:32.640 more respecial They can tell the difference between you know, 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:35.880 one form of politics and another. It's not that they 1:47:35.920 --> 1:47:38.960 were just ready to court immediately. I mean some of 1:47:39.000 --> 1:47:42.280 them still had the fresh wounds of the trauma being 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:44.720 inflicted by Eric Garry. Yeah, but it's because of that 1:47:44.840 --> 1:47:49.320 trauma they were also sensitive to the potential of new traumas. 1:47:49.479 --> 1:47:54.680 Ye call it paranoia, call it unesst and and right 1:47:54.800 --> 1:47:58.680 thinking suspicion. But they were they were wary of what 1:47:58.880 --> 1:48:01.360 was taking place. Yeah, and you know it didn't help. 1:48:02.240 --> 1:48:04.200 It didn't help that. Okay. So you know some people 1:48:05.200 --> 1:48:08.800 they read like one or two theory books and they 1:48:08.880 --> 1:48:12.519 start walking around like their head is three times bigger 1:48:12.600 --> 1:48:15.240 than it is. They start walking around this kind of 1:48:15.280 --> 1:48:17.160 inflated sense of self importance. 1:48:17.520 --> 1:48:19.759 Yes, I'm very familiar with that kind of person. 1:48:20.439 --> 1:48:24.920 Yeah, Unfortunately, that's exactly what started taking place among some 1:48:25.040 --> 1:48:28.120 members of the party. They're reading all these books, all 1:48:28.160 --> 1:48:31.680 these thick books from Russia and June and Marx and 1:48:31.800 --> 1:48:35.519 Lenin and all these people's and they're starting to carry 1:48:35.560 --> 1:48:39.640 themselves in a particular way. Yeah, with a level of 1:48:39.840 --> 1:48:43.560 arrogance and nowhere to illness. And you know, and this 1:48:43.680 --> 1:48:47.759 is we're in a society. We remember, we are fresh 1:48:47.880 --> 1:48:52.639 out of colonialism. You know, none of our independent nations 1:48:52.880 --> 1:48:55.600 or even one hundred years old. Yet much of the 1:48:55.680 --> 1:48:59.560 population still remember that colonial period. Yeah, and much of 1:48:59.600 --> 1:49:03.400 the popular, like I mentioned before, needed changes the education 1:49:03.560 --> 1:49:07.760 system because they didn't have educational opportunities. So you had 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:13.519 this vast educational inequality, right, and then you have this 1:49:13.680 --> 1:49:15.840 new jeal movement and some of its members are talking 1:49:15.880 --> 1:49:18.439 to you like you're stupid. Yeah, because you didn't get 1:49:18.479 --> 1:49:20.640 to go to primary school, you didn't read all the 1:49:20.720 --> 1:49:22.040 thick books that they were, or you didn't get to 1:49:22.040 --> 1:49:23.800 go to secondary school, or you didn't get to go 1:49:23.880 --> 1:49:26.439 to university, and so you don't know all the big 1:49:26.560 --> 1:49:28.840 words and you haven't read all the thick texts that 1:49:28.920 --> 1:49:31.960 they have read. And it could rub people the wrong way. 1:49:32.439 --> 1:49:38.360 Yeah, yes, right, Yeah, there can be too much theory. 1:49:38.760 --> 1:49:42.680 I think that often is too much theory, especially when 1:49:42.720 --> 1:49:45.720 it creates this idea right that reading is what distinguishes 1:49:45.760 --> 1:49:50.240 one as a revolutionary right as opposed to doing or 1:49:50.479 --> 1:49:54.560 just knowing and caring, and it did a downfall of 1:49:54.720 --> 1:49:55.439 many movements. 1:49:56.320 --> 1:49:59.479 Indeed, I think if you're coming from the background that 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:02.880 some of the this neutual movement members were coming from, 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:05.400 you need to put in that extra effort not to 1:50:05.880 --> 1:50:08.759 dumb things down per se. You still want to respect 1:50:08.760 --> 1:50:11.799 people's intelligence, but you have to be away of the dynamic. 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:15.040 It's something that I myself have to work on, you know, 1:50:15.680 --> 1:50:18.639 because I think it's a sort of curse of knowledge 1:50:18.680 --> 1:50:20.639 where you read so much that you take for granted 1:50:21.120 --> 1:50:23.320 what you know. You know, you read to a point 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:28.559 where you almost forget that this is not common knowledge 1:50:28.760 --> 1:50:31.800 or this word may be unfamiliar to a lot of people, 1:50:32.479 --> 1:50:35.240 and you really have to be cognizant of it, especially 1:50:35.240 --> 1:50:37.560 as you approaching people and make sure you're talking to 1:50:37.600 --> 1:50:40.200 them in their language. They don't feel as though they're 1:50:40.200 --> 1:50:41.840 carrying yourself too big fabriages. 1:50:42.560 --> 1:50:45.880 Yeah, definitely, like the people who write the thick books 1:50:45.920 --> 1:50:48.960 can't be your like milieu. You know, they can't be there. 1:50:49.000 --> 1:50:51.800 I've used a stupid word. But like, if those are 1:50:51.840 --> 1:50:54.639 the people with whom you're sort of conversing in your head, 1:50:54.640 --> 1:50:58.120 and then you begin to speak in that language to 1:50:58.240 --> 1:51:01.599 people who aren't familiar with it, just sounds weird. Yeah, 1:51:02.280 --> 1:51:05.680 like it's yeah, as you said, you get too big 1:51:05.760 --> 1:51:08.800 for your bridges, and you some pompous if you're not. 1:51:08.840 --> 1:51:23.920 Careful exactly exactly, and so for the you know, big 1:51:24.040 --> 1:51:26.400 shot lawyer again all the time, and she kind of 1:51:26.400 --> 1:51:28.840 as I say this, for big shot lawyers like Marie 1:51:28.880 --> 1:51:34.000 Bishop and a big shot economics lecturers like Bernard Cord 1:51:34.320 --> 1:51:36.599 and some of the other folks that had been part 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:38.960 of the core of the party, they had to approach 1:51:38.960 --> 1:51:40.960 to people in a particular way, and they were successful 1:51:40.960 --> 1:51:43.680 in doing so under Eric Garry and as they were 1:51:43.720 --> 1:51:47.240 part of you opposition. But things were shifted also the 1:51:47.280 --> 1:51:49.720 two in the of the eighties, we had a lot 1:51:49.760 --> 1:51:55.560 of moves again suspected counter revolutionaries, imprisonment without trial. To 1:51:55.640 --> 1:51:58.280 imagine again, people are thinking, this is what the monk 1:51:58.280 --> 1:52:01.800 who's gang two point zero? Yeah, the fair was starting 1:52:01.880 --> 1:52:05.320 to overtake, the society was starting to become cannibalizing. As 1:52:05.320 --> 1:52:07.400 I said, so by the time we get to nineteen 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:10.320 eighty three, we find ourselves with the people bereft of 1:52:10.360 --> 1:52:13.960 the early days of hope, in a house divided, which 1:52:14.400 --> 1:52:19.479 famously cannot stand unbeknowns to the public, there were tensions 1:52:19.479 --> 1:52:22.559 between Maurice Bishop and Bernard Cord since at least nineteen 1:52:22.600 --> 1:52:26.000 eighty two, and Chord wasn't even part of the central 1:52:26.040 --> 1:52:29.080 Committee of the Neutral Movement anymore for a while, but 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:33.479 within the vanguard the party members still preferred Cord to Bishop. 1:52:34.280 --> 1:52:37.280 Cord was seen as more intellectually equipped to lead with 1:52:37.400 --> 1:52:41.640 his knowledge of theory. They started calling Bishop egotistics and 1:52:41.800 --> 1:52:44.880 counter revolutionary. And I have to say, I love the 1:52:45.520 --> 1:52:49.320 double edged sword of these kind of willingly thought to 1:52:49.479 --> 1:52:52.960 meet and cliches, because they can be used by you 1:52:53.080 --> 1:52:55.320 and then they could be used against you. In a 1:52:56.080 --> 1:52:57.400 staple of his fingers. 1:52:57.800 --> 1:53:00.599 Yeah, I did. It goes back to your finger, hammers 1:53:00.680 --> 1:53:02.080 and nails that you mentioned before. 1:53:03.000 --> 1:53:06.360 Indeed, so eventually the party decided to bring Court on 1:53:06.560 --> 1:53:10.680 as co leader with Bishop. Originally Bishop agreed, but this 1:53:10.760 --> 1:53:15.200 started great tensions. Things managed recently, but after a while 1:53:15.280 --> 1:53:18.280 Bishop was turned to push back against the co leadership arrangement, 1:53:18.720 --> 1:53:21.479 and the party started seeing it as him favoring his 1:53:21.600 --> 1:53:25.320 own ascendancy over the collective of unity and son. He 1:53:25.360 --> 1:53:28.400 went to Germany. He left the country on a trip. 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:30.840 Don't worry. There was none of the coole this time, 1:53:30.880 --> 1:53:34.000 at least not yet. When he went to Germany on 1:53:34.120 --> 1:53:37.519 a trip, came back, there was not a welcome party 1:53:37.600 --> 1:53:43.000 for him. Things were coming to her head. The party 1:53:43.320 --> 1:53:45.560 did not have his back anymore. He could feel it. 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:49.479 But he did know that the people still had his back. 1:53:49.960 --> 1:53:53.439 But he knows he's charismatic, he knows people love him, 1:53:54.160 --> 1:53:56.400 and so all of a sudden, this is in nineteen 1:53:56.439 --> 1:53:59.680 eighty three, by the way, a rumor was swollen that 1:54:00.080 --> 1:54:04.719 Cord wanted to kill Bishop. Yeah. It's a dangerous rumor, 1:54:04.800 --> 1:54:07.639 you know. It shatters this facade of a united front 1:54:07.680 --> 1:54:09.960 that had carried the revolution. They had carried the government 1:54:10.000 --> 1:54:12.880 for so long. But since most people loved Bishop, as 1:54:13.000 --> 1:54:15.080 he rightfully assumed, in fact, they were not for this 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:15.960 name basis with him. 1:54:16.280 --> 1:54:16.720 That's cool. 1:54:17.080 --> 1:54:20.679 They weren't seeing Prime Minister Bishop, your honorable Prime Minister Bishop. 1:54:21.200 --> 1:54:24.000 It was hey, Maurice, like that boy, Maurice. 1:54:24.760 --> 1:54:28.280 Yeah, that's always a good sign. Like, it's one of 1:54:28.400 --> 1:54:32.720 the positive marks of the of the Revolutionarjava, right, is 1:54:32.760 --> 1:54:35.320 that everyone is a friend and everyone's preferred to germanly 1:54:35.360 --> 1:54:38.400 by their first name, and it's always kind of yeah, 1:54:39.240 --> 1:54:43.440 I've seen enough read enough about you know, revolutions supposing 1:54:43.480 --> 1:54:45.800 a revolutionary hierarchy. So that's always a good sign, I 1:54:45.840 --> 1:54:46.200 feel like. 1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:47.080 Yeah. 1:54:48.400 --> 1:54:53.520 So, meanwhile, you had Cord who people didn't have the 1:54:53.600 --> 1:54:56.920 same kind of relationship with. Yeah, you know, as far 1:54:56.960 --> 1:55:01.760 as they're concerned, he's an anemino because of that rumor. Yeah, 1:55:02.800 --> 1:55:05.520 and the party actually suspected that it was Bishop that 1:55:05.640 --> 1:55:10.120 started the rumor. In fact, his own personal bodyguards suspected it, 1:55:10.920 --> 1:55:14.240 but Bishop himself denied it. Whether he did or did 1:55:14.280 --> 1:55:17.760 not start the rumor, we don't know. But the party 1:55:17.880 --> 1:55:21.960 was insulted by his movements and put him under house arrest. 1:55:22.840 --> 1:55:23.600 What what. 1:55:25.760 --> 1:55:28.880 Right now? But he did this shocked. 1:55:30.440 --> 1:55:32.120 Like a shot, And that's that's that's. 1:55:32.040 --> 1:55:35.800 How the people were feeling it, Like what prime minister arrested? 1:55:35.880 --> 1:55:40.640 You could do that, That's the thing. So you see, 1:55:40.680 --> 1:55:43.520 the Vanguard, with all that secrecy at this point in time, 1:55:43.680 --> 1:55:47.120 was operating on information that was not made available to 1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:50.400 the people. And the people who were pissed at the party. 1:55:50.440 --> 1:55:54.880 You know, the cracks in this political arrangement with essentially 1:55:54.960 --> 1:55:59.040 a secret society on top, were starting to show. The people, 1:56:00.080 --> 1:56:05.280 generally speaking, regardless of what the party wanted, wanted Maurice Bishop. 1:56:05.480 --> 1:56:08.880 They wanted the boy Maurice, but the party was not 1:56:09.120 --> 1:56:13.720 interested in what people wanted. The day is nineteenth of 1:56:13.760 --> 1:56:20.160 October nineteen eighty three. The pro Maurice Bishop usual movement, leaders, 1:56:21.160 --> 1:56:25.600 government ministers, and a mass demonstration of people rolled up 1:56:25.600 --> 1:56:29.080 to Bishop's house to set him free. There were gods, 1:56:29.160 --> 1:56:31.920 of course, assigned to keep him in house arrest, but 1:56:32.080 --> 1:56:35.800 those gods stood down. They refused to shoot at the people. 1:56:36.760 --> 1:56:40.960 To the crowd of people walked to Fort Rupert. Now 1:56:41.040 --> 1:56:45.640 Fort Rupert wasn't always Fort Rupert used to be Fort George. Fact, 1:56:45.680 --> 1:56:49.320 after the revolution ended it again became known as Fort George. 1:56:50.160 --> 1:56:54.800 But Fort Rupert was named Fort Rupert after Maurice Bishop's father, 1:56:55.400 --> 1:56:58.160 who was killed by Eric Garry, as you may recall. 1:56:58.840 --> 1:57:02.400 So they get there, but the majority of the Neudual movement, 1:57:02.760 --> 1:57:06.720 who were, like I said, backers of Thenard Cord, were 1:57:06.760 --> 1:57:11.640 at another fort nearby, then Boom three, armored trucks pull 1:57:11.720 --> 1:57:17.080 up from the Fort of Cord to Rupert's Fort Rupert Rat. 1:57:17.880 --> 1:57:20.640 They start firing into the crowd, people running all over 1:57:20.720 --> 1:57:21.120 the place. 1:57:22.000 --> 1:57:22.160 Hoo. 1:57:22.240 --> 1:57:26.200 One people died, who one people scattered. This event as 1:57:26.200 --> 1:57:29.240 a trauma for Grenadians even to this day. By the way, 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:33.600 So the Cord loyalists pull up and line up Bishop 1:57:34.280 --> 1:57:37.840 Unison Whiteman, who was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, nor Spain, 1:57:37.880 --> 1:57:39.920 who is the Minister of Health and was actually not 1:57:40.040 --> 1:57:43.720 part of the NEU dual movement, and Jacqueline Kreft, who 1:57:43.800 --> 1:57:46.480 is the Minister of Education, then line them up against 1:57:46.480 --> 1:57:53.800 the wall and shot them summary execution. Others including trade unionists, businessmen, 1:57:53.960 --> 1:57:58.920 and high schoolers were also killed at Fort Rupert. Right 1:57:59.040 --> 1:58:03.200 after this, the militaryvery curfew was announced on radio. Grenadians 1:58:03.240 --> 1:58:07.120 were told to lock their doors. Violators of curfew were 1:58:07.160 --> 1:58:10.240 to be shot on site. A couple of days later, 1:58:11.000 --> 1:58:14.680 as people more wanted their dead, the news came that 1:58:14.800 --> 1:58:19.920 the United States will invade Grenada. If this was a 1:58:20.880 --> 1:58:22.360 HBO series, I feel like that would be the end 1:58:22.400 --> 1:58:26.160 of the pronouncement episode. So just to give you a 1:58:26.200 --> 1:58:30.640 bit of context on the US's position, the United States 1:58:30.680 --> 1:58:33.560 did not like the way that Cuba and the Soviets 1:58:33.720 --> 1:58:37.360 and Grenada were becoming close, even though Grenada was technically 1:58:37.600 --> 1:58:41.320 non aligned. Like much of the world, was trying to 1:58:41.440 --> 1:58:45.440 stay out of the hairs of the US and the 1:58:45.560 --> 1:58:51.000 USSR in their cold wor Yeah, but Grenada and Grenadians 1:58:51.120 --> 1:58:56.760 represented a serious risk. They were black, That's a big risk. 1:58:57.920 --> 1:59:02.680 They were English speaking. There were English speaking black people 1:59:03.560 --> 1:59:06.000 close to the border of the United States of America 1:59:06.640 --> 1:59:10.120 as African Americans were engaged in their own struggle for 1:59:10.240 --> 1:59:14.120 liberation in the US. As rich Bishop noted, I mean 1:59:14.920 --> 1:59:21.320 that's the threat that there could be communication, collaboration between 1:59:21.360 --> 1:59:25.520 these groups, a demonstration of an alternative close to the 1:59:25.600 --> 1:59:29.160 United States with ease of communication with the United States. 1:59:30.000 --> 1:59:33.240 So the United States invasion was always a potential outcome, 1:59:34.120 --> 1:59:37.680 but here it was flexing power in its fair in 1:59:37.760 --> 1:59:40.480 its backyard. The Party rounded up a bunch of people 1:59:40.560 --> 1:59:44.920 to join them in defending the revolution. Most people were traumatized. 1:59:45.640 --> 1:59:49.600 They ran and they hid wherever they could. Some, regardless 1:59:49.600 --> 1:59:51.760 of whether they liked the Nu jeal movement at that 1:59:51.880 --> 1:59:54.680 point in time or not, stood ready to defend their 1:59:54.720 --> 1:59:59.000 island from invasion, but any more were hidden and scared. 1:59:59.600 --> 2:00:02.360 And they were also others who, out of revenge for 2:00:02.440 --> 2:00:07.800 the revolution that betrayed them, betrayed the revolution by expressing 2:00:07.840 --> 2:00:11.760 their support for the invasion. Now, me personally, not something 2:00:11.800 --> 2:00:14.560 I would never do. I don't care how much I 2:00:14.680 --> 2:00:18.560 disagree with any any government that I'm under, I wouldn't 2:00:19.720 --> 2:00:25.600 co sign the invasion of my country by an empire. 2:00:26.400 --> 2:00:32.720 But I can understand the reasoning or the emotional position 2:00:33.200 --> 2:00:36.240 that some people were in at that point. So the 2:00:36.400 --> 2:00:40.200 US's claim, by the way, for the invasion was that 2:00:40.240 --> 2:00:44.600 they were there to rescue American students who were in Grenada, 2:00:46.120 --> 2:00:49.200 so that they are to rescue these students from these 2:00:49.360 --> 2:00:54.960 these communes. Perfect American students wouldn't ender any actual threat. Obviously, 2:00:55.800 --> 2:00:59.400 nobody was mining them or threatening them or anything. But 2:01:00.480 --> 2:01:03.600 they always have to have some kind of story, right, Yeah, 2:01:04.360 --> 2:01:08.360 So twenty fifth of October nineteen eighty three, America's boots 2:01:08.560 --> 2:01:12.800 land on the ground, joined later by the military personnel 2:01:12.880 --> 2:01:18.640 of Barbados and Jamaica. There were more deaths, mostly in Grenadians, 2:01:18.960 --> 2:01:21.600 but also some Cubans who were there working on the 2:01:21.720 --> 2:01:28.160 new International Airport, an airport that later became known as 2:01:28.280 --> 2:01:33.960 Maurice Bishop International Airport, an airport that just over a 2:01:34.040 --> 2:01:38.080 month ago the United States requested to use for its 2:01:38.160 --> 2:01:43.080 military operations in the region. The United States kept the 2:01:43.200 --> 2:01:48.600 media out of the island for two days after the invasion. 2:01:49.360 --> 2:01:52.640 They were sure to curate an image of the communist threat. 2:01:54.040 --> 2:01:56.600 They wanted to pay into picture for the media to 2:01:56.720 --> 2:01:59.480 tell us story back at home about how yeah, they 2:01:59.520 --> 2:02:03.560 were actually repairing to work with the Soviets as a 2:02:03.560 --> 2:02:06.720 stage in ground to attack the United States. So this 2:02:06.800 --> 2:02:11.400 invasion was the first overt as opposed to covert use 2:02:11.520 --> 2:02:16.120 of force since Vietnam. The party in power at the 2:02:16.200 --> 2:02:20.800 time needed an easy win, so party members this says 2:02:20.880 --> 2:02:24.920 Neudual Movement party members were imprisoned. An interim government was 2:02:25.040 --> 2:02:29.680 established by Grenadians living abroad, and the revolution was over 2:02:41.080 --> 2:02:46.120 a stock aftermath, the fall of the Usual Movement and 2:02:46.360 --> 2:02:50.120 the People's Revolutionary Government of Grenada led to the disintegration 2:02:50.680 --> 2:02:54.600 of the Workers Party of Jamaica. It now destroyed Cara 2:02:54.720 --> 2:02:58.560 com the Caribbean community as a united block as Jamaica 2:02:58.600 --> 2:03:00.959 I'm sure and Dad decided with the US in the invasion, 2:03:01.080 --> 2:03:05.440 while countries I trainedad stood against the invasion. That was 2:03:05.520 --> 2:03:09.240 a split in Cara com that took years to recover from, 2:03:10.360 --> 2:03:14.320 and I think most crucially, the fall of the utual 2:03:14.360 --> 2:03:18.040 movement led to the death in all but name of 2:03:18.160 --> 2:03:23.320 the Caribbean Left, from distrust, from infighting, and from this 2:03:23.560 --> 2:03:28.640 resolute enforcement of the new colonial model. For all the 2:03:28.720 --> 2:03:32.800 flaws of the revolution had it was a representation of 2:03:32.880 --> 2:03:37.800 an alternative that something else could be done besides business 2:03:37.840 --> 2:03:44.680 as usual. And that alternative first felt in fighting, and 2:03:44.840 --> 2:03:50.200 then its fate was sealed by a belligerent invasion. Yeah, 2:03:51.160 --> 2:03:55.080 and so the Caribbean Left not say it's actually entirely dead. 2:03:55.160 --> 2:03:58.400 There are still figures from that era. There are still 2:03:58.480 --> 2:04:05.120 people who carry progressive or revolutionary politics, but it's Haiti 2:04:05.320 --> 2:04:09.040 it's goal and age is no more. And that is 2:04:09.080 --> 2:04:13.200 in part as a result of that US invasion. And 2:04:13.320 --> 2:04:18.120 within Grenader the bodies of those killed were never found. 2:04:19.040 --> 2:04:22.800 In some cases, the families of those killed or of 2:04:23.560 --> 2:04:27.040 department members may even still be divided to this day. 2:04:27.760 --> 2:04:29.960 You know, you can imagine how they must feel, these 2:04:30.040 --> 2:04:34.160 sort of social and political divisions that came out of 2:04:34.240 --> 2:04:37.200 that kind of action. Who sided with Cord, who sided 2:04:37.280 --> 2:04:39.720 with Bishop, who sided with the US? Who stood against 2:04:40.040 --> 2:04:43.360 who brought whose actions were responsible for the US come in. 2:04:44.000 --> 2:04:47.200 If the revolution never happened, then US wouldn't have come 2:04:47.200 --> 2:04:53.200 they seople wouldn't be dead. Blame game, accusations, political conflicts, 2:04:54.360 --> 2:04:56.400 all of that. You know, it's very easy to breeze 2:04:56.440 --> 2:04:59.640 over the deaths of people in historical events as just numbers. 2:05:00.040 --> 2:05:04.720 That's just statistics. You know, it doesn't even click, you know, 2:05:04.760 --> 2:05:06.840 because I think, I don't think our brains can fully 2:05:07.560 --> 2:05:10.800 handle that much trauma at once. So we we could 2:05:10.880 --> 2:05:14.560 partmentalize it in a way, we package it in something 2:05:14.600 --> 2:05:19.160 that's a bit more digestible. When you hear figures of 2:05:19.680 --> 2:05:23.640 you know, even just two people, that that's two people, 2:05:24.400 --> 2:05:30.960 two entire human beings with lives, interests, passions, relationships, connections, 2:05:31.280 --> 2:05:36.080 future snuffed out. And in a country like Grenada, from 2:05:36.120 --> 2:05:40.320 a small country, one hundred thousand people, and I mean 2:05:40.360 --> 2:05:42.960 I'm from Trinad, right, which has a population of about 2:05:42.960 --> 2:05:45.920 one point four million people, and it still feels like 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:49.400 you know somebody who knows somebody. The networks are so tight. 2:05:50.400 --> 2:05:53.760 It's even tighter net network wise in a Grenader or 2:05:53.760 --> 2:05:59.800 a Tobago. You know, we're talking neighbors, relatives split into sides, cousin, 2:06:00.240 --> 2:06:06.720 blaming cousin, friend killing friend, a decolonization never fully began 2:06:06.800 --> 2:06:10.840 and never fully completed. Their social splits on the perspective 2:06:10.960 --> 2:06:15.400 on what took place, you had the Bishop was good crowd, 2:06:16.280 --> 2:06:19.560 the Bishop was bad crowd. The Bishop was bad, but 2:06:19.680 --> 2:06:23.080 the revolution was good crowd. The revolution was bad, but 2:06:23.160 --> 2:06:27.640 Bishop was good crowd. You get all sorts of interpretations 2:06:27.680 --> 2:06:31.760 of these kinds of traumatic historical events. Yeah, and the 2:06:31.840 --> 2:06:37.280 outcome to this day is, you know, fair, unhealed, open wounds, 2:06:38.160 --> 2:06:41.840 the youth, the passionate radical youth of yesteryear, keeping their 2:06:41.880 --> 2:06:45.640 heads down on auto politics. Today. Unfortunately, very little has 2:06:45.680 --> 2:06:47.960 been done in Grenada to deal with the traumas of 2:06:48.000 --> 2:06:53.320 the invasion, besides an attempted truth and Reconciliation commission, which 2:06:53.920 --> 2:06:58.280 failed miserably due to a couple of different obstacles, an 2:06:58.360 --> 2:07:03.240 unwillingness to reconcile, amongst they continued incarceration of certain individuals, 2:07:03.840 --> 2:07:09.280 unrecovered remains, anger towards entire sectors the population at the 2:07:09.360 --> 2:07:13.600 execution of Bishop and others, and so in the years 2:07:13.640 --> 2:07:19.560 that have followed, there's been a subdued political consciousness among 2:07:19.640 --> 2:07:24.640 much of the population. They have risen to the challenge 2:07:24.800 --> 2:07:28.120 of the US inviting themselves to set up shop in 2:07:28.640 --> 2:07:32.680 marich Bishop International Airport. There were many actions taking place 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:37.200 in Grenada to speak up understand against that intervention. But 2:07:37.320 --> 2:07:40.440 for the most part, the property of this has been 2:07:40.520 --> 2:07:45.680 disengaged from the sort of radical passion that you saw 2:07:46.040 --> 2:07:49.360 in that time period. And it didn't help, of course 2:07:49.480 --> 2:07:54.040 that pretty much right after the revolution you had a 2:07:54.160 --> 2:07:59.240 series of natural disasters. In September two thousand and four, 2:08:00.000 --> 2:08:02.440 after being hurricane three for forty nine years, the island 2:08:02.520 --> 2:08:06.200 was hit by Hurricane Ivan, a Category three hurricane that 2:08:06.320 --> 2:08:09.280 resulted in three nine deaths and the damage or destruction 2:08:09.480 --> 2:08:13.520 to ninety percent of the island's homes. In two thousand 2:08:13.560 --> 2:08:15.800 and five, which is the following year, Hurricane Emily, a 2:08:15.920 --> 2:08:19.320 Category one hurricane, struck the island and killed a person. 2:08:20.080 --> 2:08:23.880 In twenty twenty four, Hurricane Beryl struck the island of Kararaku. 2:08:24.880 --> 2:08:28.440 And so we're already to know the environmental instability of 2:08:28.880 --> 2:08:31.440 being a Caribbean island, but now I also have to 2:08:31.520 --> 2:08:34.000 be with the political and social instability of such a 2:08:34.080 --> 2:08:38.400 traumatic incident. Before we close, I do want to get 2:08:38.480 --> 2:08:42.760 into some of the critiques that I had of this project. 2:08:43.840 --> 2:08:45.320 You know, I'm not the type of weekson to look 2:08:45.320 --> 2:08:49.120 at these historical moments, no matter by allegiance to the 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:52.680 esposed politics of the people in them, and we want 2:08:52.680 --> 2:08:56.960 to paint them in a narrow, simplistic brush. You know, 2:08:57.040 --> 2:08:59.800 I think I see that tendency across all groups. Yeah, 2:09:00.240 --> 2:09:02.280 you know, so the Marx Slenness. We'll talk about these 2:09:02.360 --> 2:09:07.120 revolutions in a very fawning and agulating way. Then you 2:09:07.280 --> 2:09:11.360 sell the anarchists who talk about, you know, the Spanish 2:09:11.400 --> 2:09:14.400 Civil War, they talk about the Paris community. They talk 2:09:14.400 --> 2:09:17.120 about these different projects as if they were and as 2:09:17.160 --> 2:09:21.600 if they weren't serious flaws in their structure and the 2:09:21.680 --> 2:09:24.640 analysis and their methodology. It's worth addressing. 2:09:24.960 --> 2:09:25.080 You know. 2:09:25.120 --> 2:09:26.960 It's very easy for nostalgia to take over. 2:09:27.640 --> 2:09:29.680 Yeah, definitely, like something I think about a lot. Like 2:09:29.840 --> 2:09:33.200 I translated a piece for the Strangers in the Tangled 2:09:33.240 --> 2:09:36.360 Wilderness zine a few months ago, maybe even a year 2:09:36.400 --> 2:09:41.200 ago now by an anarchist fighterhood fought in the International 2:09:41.240 --> 2:09:44.400 Group of the Darruti column who went by several names, 2:09:44.560 --> 2:09:48.400 Charles Riddle with his birth name, but he has this 2:09:48.480 --> 2:09:51.480 whole thing about how anarchists tend to write hagiographies like 2:09:51.760 --> 2:09:55.240 which is the life of a saint? Right, Like they've 2:09:55.280 --> 2:09:56.960 tried to make the Spanish Civil War into these like 2:09:57.080 --> 2:10:01.320 exemplaries saintly people as a opposed to actually looking at 2:10:01.360 --> 2:10:05.360 the mistakes people made and his stances are like his 2:10:05.520 --> 2:10:09.040 friends died for nothing if we don't learn anything, and 2:10:09.200 --> 2:10:13.000 so if we don't acknowledge the very real compromises and 2:10:13.280 --> 2:10:17.760 mistakes and failures, then they have been defeated, right, and 2:10:17.840 --> 2:10:19.520 they all died for nothing. But at at least we 2:10:19.560 --> 2:10:21.480 can learn from it, then at least is something we 2:10:21.560 --> 2:10:24.040 can take going forward, which is something I always thought 2:10:24.160 --> 2:10:27.920 was a great way of phrasing something and quite an 2:10:27.920 --> 2:10:31.800 admirable way of looking at something that he himself participated 2:10:31.840 --> 2:10:33.760 in and that was obviously a defining and a very 2:10:33.840 --> 2:10:35.480 traumatic experience of his life. 2:10:36.280 --> 2:10:40.160 Yeah, it's something that I rallied again, that sort of 2:10:40.800 --> 2:10:45.800 great man of Bruce's history. Yeah, right, I suppose that 2:10:45.880 --> 2:10:48.440 brings mean some of my first critique, which is something 2:10:48.480 --> 2:10:53.120 that plays greater both before, during and after this revolution 2:10:54.240 --> 2:10:58.360 when you have a political culture dependent on a maximum 2:10:58.520 --> 2:11:02.880 leader that puts now cult or just a grouping around 2:11:02.960 --> 2:11:08.160 her personality, whether that's bishop or Gaary or Cord. For one, 2:11:08.200 --> 2:11:11.760 it's a continuation of the colonial politics of the British 2:11:12.360 --> 2:11:16.160 in that sort of governor position. And it also, I 2:11:16.200 --> 2:11:20.960 think leads to a contempt towards common people. Whether it 2:11:21.040 --> 2:11:23.960 starts out that way or not, it eventually makes its 2:11:23.960 --> 2:11:27.760 way into that direction. I still see personality politics rear 2:11:27.800 --> 2:11:30.560 and it's ugly headed in Trinidad, even though we've been 2:11:30.640 --> 2:11:33.760 independent for even longer. You know, nineteen sixty two are 2:11:33.760 --> 2:11:38.400 opposed to create as nineteen seventy four. But the result 2:11:38.440 --> 2:11:42.640 of that kind of politics is, you know, it's ideological 2:11:42.680 --> 2:11:48.360 and policy splits either nonexistent or secondary to personality loyalties, 2:11:48.800 --> 2:11:53.280 familiar ties, and in some cases ethnic loyalty. The United 2:11:53.400 --> 2:11:56.720 National Congress UN see the Party in Power Internet right now, 2:11:57.360 --> 2:12:01.280 party responsible for our current position, is a personality cult 2:12:01.840 --> 2:12:06.120 led by a current prime minister talent subrossessor. And she's 2:12:06.200 --> 2:12:13.480 only one of many examples of this sort of party first, 2:12:14.280 --> 2:12:18.160 leader first approach to politics that we see in the region, 2:12:19.000 --> 2:12:21.280 a baggage that we see in the region. I know, 2:12:21.360 --> 2:12:24.000 with radical politics, it's sad because you expect to do 2:12:24.080 --> 2:12:29.080 away with that kind of stuff. But the Revolution, in 2:12:29.200 --> 2:12:33.360 my view, had a lack of decolonization away from the 2:12:33.440 --> 2:12:37.480 authority and tendencies of colonial rule. That I think is 2:12:37.560 --> 2:12:40.280 why there was such an appeal in Leninists thought and 2:12:40.480 --> 2:12:44.200 rule to begin with, because it's a lot easier to approach, 2:12:44.320 --> 2:12:47.960 you know, it doesn't unpack the psychology of clonialism or 2:12:48.080 --> 2:12:51.839 unpack how Gary's rule may have shaped their own approach 2:12:51.880 --> 2:12:57.280 to politics, that another politics might, that another anti politics might, 2:12:58.120 --> 2:13:02.040 And so they carried on this elita, authoritaria, and personality 2:13:02.120 --> 2:13:08.480 based politics despite having a youthful beginning. Bishop was twenty 2:13:08.640 --> 2:13:11.120 nine when he started a neutral movement, which is the 2:13:11.160 --> 2:13:13.800 same age that Gary was when he got into politics. 2:13:14.560 --> 2:13:16.480 I know one could make a movie of the mirrors 2:13:16.520 --> 2:13:19.960 in their histories. But despite his youthful beginning, the youth 2:13:20.240 --> 2:13:23.920 carried on the mistakes of their forebears. They betrayed the 2:13:23.960 --> 2:13:26.600 excitement of people power that people had for the revolution, 2:13:27.360 --> 2:13:29.840 just as they betrayed the excitement of people power that 2:13:29.880 --> 2:13:34.160 people had for independence, and they continue the consciousness of 2:13:34.440 --> 2:13:38.520 deference to hierarchy. Again, I don't want to draw one 2:13:38.600 --> 2:13:43.160 to one comparisons between Gary and Bishop. I recognize their 2:13:43.360 --> 2:13:47.720 stark differences and their politics and in their engagement with 2:13:47.800 --> 2:13:51.320 the people of Grenado. They were not the same, but 2:13:51.440 --> 2:13:54.880 in some ways they did rhyme. I would wrap up, 2:13:54.920 --> 2:13:58.800 I suppose with Bundy's sort of critique of Grenado's revolution, 2:13:59.200 --> 2:14:02.640 which I just echo this continued consciousness of a deference 2:14:02.680 --> 2:14:08.400 to hierarchy. A genuine revolution depends on people taking direct responsibility, 2:14:09.240 --> 2:14:12.720 not waiting for leaders or stages of development, not waiting 2:14:12.840 --> 2:14:19.040 on guidance, being empowered themselves. That sort of tired Leninist 2:14:19.240 --> 2:14:25.160 gradualism and bureaucratic control gets regular people no closer to 2:14:25.320 --> 2:14:29.720 actually having a sense of autonomy and control over their lives. 2:14:30.800 --> 2:14:38.600 And as Fundy emphasizers, especially in small Caribbean societies, participatory 2:14:39.280 --> 2:14:45.720 local self managed systems are entirely feasible. Inclosing, Fundy suggested 2:14:45.800 --> 2:14:49.040 that Gredino's revolution failed because it moved away from this 2:14:49.200 --> 2:14:55.160 principle of immediate collective self management and deliberately chose hierarchy. 2:14:55.680 --> 2:14:59.400 And from that hierarchy came a sense of erodent trust, came, 2:14:59.440 --> 2:15:02.760 a sense of secrecy, became a sense of secret societies, 2:15:03.640 --> 2:15:07.680 and I created a culture of secrecy, a post transparency 2:15:08.440 --> 2:15:12.400 that led to its downfall. As I mentioned, it was 2:15:12.560 --> 2:15:17.080 gossip a rumor of somebody trying to kill Bishop but 2:15:17.240 --> 2:15:21.080 got this ball roller. So today I want to appeal 2:15:21.160 --> 2:15:25.560 directly to Cribean radicals of all stripes to learn, to learnlessly, 2:15:25.800 --> 2:15:30.320 learn from the Grenadian Revolution. I on't appeal not just 2:15:30.360 --> 2:15:33.400 to Cribian radicals, but to radicals all across. They will 2:15:33.480 --> 2:15:38.560 all across our listenership. It is critical in times when 2:15:39.320 --> 2:15:46.520 the means of intervention and the means of disruption and 2:15:46.640 --> 2:15:51.680 division and co optation are more powerful than ever, that 2:15:51.800 --> 2:15:55.320 you engage in the sort of dissipation of leadership, that 2:15:55.440 --> 2:16:01.800 you engage in grassroots and disposed in powerment, That you 2:16:01.920 --> 2:16:07.839 maintain an anti authoritarian ethos that cannot be co opted 2:16:08.400 --> 2:16:11.560 by a charismatic power. But you've take an approach to 2:16:11.720 --> 2:16:16.080 organization does not lend itself to the vulnerabilities of hierarchy 2:16:17.120 --> 2:16:21.160 that you consider moving like my coruser, that you take 2:16:21.200 --> 2:16:25.280 on networks and free associations rather than the sort of 2:16:26.480 --> 2:16:32.560 X Marxist spot Bullsey centralized parties and the power struggles 2:16:32.640 --> 2:16:37.440 that ensue from them from that thirst for power that 2:16:37.640 --> 2:16:45.040 led so many downfalls for the revolutionary imagination. Before I 2:16:45.080 --> 2:16:46.520 wrap up, I just want to ask James, we have 2:16:46.560 --> 2:16:47.039 any thoughts. 2:16:48.040 --> 2:16:50.520 No, I think that's very eloquent the way you said it, 2:16:50.680 --> 2:16:55.080 Like we have to build systems and ways of organizing 2:16:55.240 --> 2:16:57.840 relating to one another that don't allow this to happen. Right, 2:16:58.720 --> 2:17:00.960 we have to be very conscious, like you say, of 2:17:01.480 --> 2:17:03.560 where it has happened. And I think the only way 2:17:04.520 --> 2:17:07.959 there'll we understand the value of that is through studying history, 2:17:08.560 --> 2:17:12.360 but like studying it from a place like you were saying, right, 2:17:12.440 --> 2:17:14.640 like I get death is a statistic or a number 2:17:14.760 --> 2:17:17.520 until it's a person. And I think if we can 2:17:17.560 --> 2:17:21.200 study history from a place of like empathy, I guess, 2:17:21.280 --> 2:17:24.480 and solidarity rather than this would never happen to me, 2:17:24.920 --> 2:17:27.760 or like you said, like oversimplifying in a way that 2:17:27.840 --> 2:17:31.160 I think doesn't help. And sometimes I think we do 2:17:31.320 --> 2:17:35.760 it to kind of absolve ourselves from similarity, to think like, oh, 2:17:36.120 --> 2:17:39.520 how close could I be to this? It's one of 2:17:39.680 --> 2:17:43.760 the things I don't like about academic history. But if 2:17:43.840 --> 2:17:46.480 we are people who are interested in making the world better, 2:17:46.520 --> 2:17:48.879 than we have to learn from all the other people 2:17:49.000 --> 2:17:51.000 all over the world who tried to make the world better, 2:17:51.240 --> 2:17:56.640 and especially from the ones who didn't succeed. Yeah, because 2:17:56.680 --> 2:17:58.000 we don't want to do that again. 2:17:59.600 --> 2:18:04.520 Exactly, and the times they are a change in Yes, indeed, 2:18:05.520 --> 2:18:09.280 we have to approach that with our due diligence. You know, 2:18:09.360 --> 2:18:13.640 the strategies that were more relevant or more more practical 2:18:13.720 --> 2:18:16.920 in particular context may be relevant or practical in your context. 2:18:17.600 --> 2:18:22.240 Yeah, very much too. All right, Yeah, that was great, 2:18:22.280 --> 2:18:22.760 Thank you Andrew. 2:18:23.640 --> 2:18:26.200 To all our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. 2:18:26.800 --> 2:18:29.840 I hope that you can look at our region with 2:18:30.040 --> 2:18:36.240 clearer eyes and vigilance in the ways that history repeats 2:18:36.360 --> 2:18:41.080 and rhymes. Until next time or power to all the 2:18:41.160 --> 2:18:42.600 people peace? 2:18:59.000 --> 2:18:59.320 All right? 2:19:00.560 --> 2:19:04.320 What are crackers and crack ats? Is that good? Perfect? 2:19:04.560 --> 2:19:05.120 Do we say that? 2:19:05.800 --> 2:19:06.200 I think? So? 2:19:06.640 --> 2:19:09.320 Okay, do you have a non binary cracks crack thems? 2:19:10.040 --> 2:19:11.800 I think I'm definitionly not a cracker. 2:19:18.040 --> 2:19:20.160 I just wanted to use the word crack ats. Yeah, 2:19:20.320 --> 2:19:21.920 I understand it's not appropriate. 2:19:22.120 --> 2:19:22.920 That's reasonable. 2:19:23.280 --> 2:19:29.720 Welcome to ed. Yeah, weich is just we should that, sorry, James, 2:19:29.760 --> 2:19:32.400 So let's just keep doing it. Do the intro. This 2:19:32.680 --> 2:19:35.920 is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast 2:19:36.000 --> 2:19:38.279 covering what is happening in the White House, the crumbling 2:19:38.360 --> 2:19:40.480 of our world, and what this means to you. I 2:19:40.640 --> 2:19:44.360 am James Stout and I'm joined today by Robert Evans 2:19:44.600 --> 2:19:49.240 and Mia Wong and Sophie. Sophie is also here, and 2:19:49.480 --> 2:19:52.800 this episode we are covering the week of December eleventh 2:19:52.920 --> 2:19:57.600 to December seventeenth, the week before the week that is Christmas. 2:19:58.080 --> 2:20:00.720 That's right, baby, So I hope you've done your shopping. 2:20:00.879 --> 2:20:03.480 I hope you've got me a gift because I pay 2:20:03.520 --> 2:20:05.960 attention to which of our listeners do and do not 2:20:06.160 --> 2:20:06.959 buy me presents. 2:20:08.160 --> 2:20:11.480 Yeah, so do I you will never find me and 2:20:11.600 --> 2:20:13.200 you shouldn't try. That's right. 2:20:13.560 --> 2:20:15.959 And it's currently Honkah, Happy honkah. 2:20:15.840 --> 2:20:21.039 Happy hone right, yes, yeah, happy honekah. All the holidays 2:20:21.400 --> 2:20:25.960 have a yeah, quasi Kwanza, have a solemn, dignified tet. 2:20:26.440 --> 2:20:28.240 All the holidays have a good one of them. 2:20:28.320 --> 2:20:29.840 Happy Winter Solstice, which. 2:20:29.720 --> 2:20:32.920 Is happy Solstice more unhappy Solstice. It's kind of a 2:20:33.200 --> 2:20:36.759 bittersweet holiday. Yeah, Super Saturnalia. 2:20:37.640 --> 2:20:40.080 You know, it's a good one. 2:20:42.360 --> 2:20:45.000 So holidays are nice, but we're going to talk about 2:20:45.080 --> 2:20:47.560 some things that are less nice today. 2:20:47.920 --> 2:20:51.840 The government, Yes, the government and specific parts of the government. 2:20:52.160 --> 2:20:56.560 Let's start with some headlines. Gothamist has obtained information about 2:20:56.640 --> 2:20:59.080 ice being able to enter private parts of New York 2:20:59.160 --> 2:21:02.640 City shelter without a judicial warrant, or being able to 2:21:02.680 --> 2:21:06.320 obtain private information about residents, despite both of these in 2:21:06.520 --> 2:21:09.920 theory being prohibited by sanctuary city laws in New York. Right, 2:21:10.520 --> 2:21:13.560 it's happened at least five times. The way Gotham has 2:21:13.640 --> 2:21:17.160 found this is by making a public records request for 2:21:17.240 --> 2:21:20.360 incident reports, which is a clever use of public record 2:21:20.480 --> 2:21:24.199 law nice one. The city has already aware of both 2:21:24.360 --> 2:21:27.039 jail and police officers violating these laws, and I think 2:21:27.120 --> 2:21:30.160 this is a good example of how people think of 2:21:30.280 --> 2:21:35.480 sanctuary city laws as inassailable, but in fact sanctuary laws 2:21:35.920 --> 2:21:39.400 be the city's state whatever jurisdiction, are very often violated, 2:21:40.000 --> 2:21:41.880 and it's good to see that being reported on more. 2:21:42.480 --> 2:21:44.840 Last week, we talked about Faustino Pablo Pablo, right, the 2:21:44.879 --> 2:21:47.720 guy who had been sent to Guatemala despite the fact 2:21:47.720 --> 2:21:50.560 that he had protections under the Convention against Torture for 2:21:50.680 --> 2:21:53.879 being returned there. The government has returned him to the US, 2:21:54.320 --> 2:21:57.200 which is good. That is a rare, good immigration story. 2:22:01.280 --> 2:22:03.720 It did really bum me out to see that, Like 2:22:04.040 --> 2:22:06.840 there were dozens of articles on him being sent there, right, 2:22:06.879 --> 2:22:10.640 and I couldn't find anything any reporting on him being returned, 2:22:10.840 --> 2:22:12.320 which is kind of like, we should be happy for 2:22:12.400 --> 2:22:15.760 these people. We should. Yeah, we don't get many wins 2:22:15.840 --> 2:22:18.119 and we should take them. Yeah, we should be happy 2:22:18.160 --> 2:22:21.119 that this guy is not being likely to be tortured. 2:22:21.280 --> 2:22:23.520 At least it is still possible for them to remove 2:22:23.600 --> 2:22:26.800 him to a third country, right, that is not outside 2:22:26.840 --> 2:22:28.920 the realm of possibility. But right now he's not in 2:22:29.000 --> 2:22:31.480 a place where a gig judicated he was likely to 2:22:31.560 --> 2:22:34.520 be tortured, and that is good good. And Trump has 2:22:34.600 --> 2:22:39.200 designated fentanel as a weapon of mass destruction, which is great. 2:22:40.920 --> 2:22:42.080 What are we doing here? 2:22:42.800 --> 2:22:48.800 Like, I am trained as a historian, and I probably 2:22:48.800 --> 2:22:51.320 should remind you that we have been down this road 2:22:51.840 --> 2:22:56.320 before with the weapons of mass destruction, and I hope 2:22:56.440 --> 2:23:01.040 this is not leading where it did lost time, but 2:23:01.200 --> 2:23:05.160 I am very worried that it might. Yeah, yeah, it's 2:23:05.280 --> 2:23:06.240 it's one of those things. 2:23:06.400 --> 2:23:10.320 I'm both we'll see, we'll know before this episode ends 2:23:10.360 --> 2:23:13.280 whether or not I'm wrong. Tucker Carlson stated recently that 2:23:13.320 --> 2:23:16.320 a source has told him the presidential announcement coming up 2:23:16.440 --> 2:23:19.480 is Trump declaring war, right that, like, we're doing a 2:23:19.560 --> 2:23:22.280 war with Venezuela full on, not just some like air 2:23:22.360 --> 2:23:26.119 strikes and stuff, just not to minimize a legal air 2:23:26.200 --> 2:23:29.480 strike in the sea or on Venezuela or soil. 2:23:30.160 --> 2:23:30.959 I don't know if I. 2:23:31.400 --> 2:23:34.640 Think that that's the likeliest thing. It just seems like 2:23:35.120 --> 2:23:39.920 such a huge jump. But also, at this point there's 2:23:39.959 --> 2:23:42.920 a whole armada blocking off Venezuela from the rest of 2:23:43.000 --> 2:23:45.360 the world, and Trump put out a statement saying that 2:23:45.560 --> 2:23:49.119 their oil is our oil and belongs rightly to American companies. 2:23:49.240 --> 2:23:53.680 So very very possible, very possible when we're about to 2:23:53.760 --> 2:23:56.520 go to war with them. I'm certainly not a I 2:23:56.560 --> 2:23:59.000 don't know what's going to happen, y'all. I'm white knuckling 2:23:59.080 --> 2:23:59.920 it like everybody else. 2:24:00.160 --> 2:24:02.000 Yeah, that fucking sucks. I didn't know the thing about 2:24:02.040 --> 2:24:02.440 that oil. 2:24:03.360 --> 2:24:03.840 It's amazing. 2:24:03.959 --> 2:24:06.600 I'll read the exact quote to you, James. This is 2:24:06.680 --> 2:24:10.120 from Trump a truth social post which has twelve point 2:24:10.160 --> 2:24:14.120 four thousand retruths and forty seven thousand likes. Venezuela is 2:24:14.200 --> 2:24:16.880 completely surrounded by the largest armada ever assembled in the 2:24:16.959 --> 2:24:19.080 history of South America. It will only get bigger, and 2:24:19.120 --> 2:24:20.600 the shock to them will be like nothing they have 2:24:20.640 --> 2:24:22.840 ever seen before until such time as they returned to 2:24:22.879 --> 2:24:25.240 the United States of America all of the oil, land 2:24:25.320 --> 2:24:28.480 and other assets that they previously stole from US. The 2:24:28.520 --> 2:24:31.680 illegitimate Maduro regime is using oil from these stolen oil 2:24:31.720 --> 2:24:35.840 fields to finance themselves, drug terrorism, human trafficking, murder and kidnapping. 2:24:35.879 --> 2:24:37.680 For the theft of our assets, and many other reasons 2:24:37.720 --> 2:24:41.040 including terrorism, drug smuggling, and human trafficking, the Venezuelan regime 2:24:41.080 --> 2:24:44.440 has been designated a foreign terrorist organization. Therefore, today I'm 2:24:44.560 --> 2:24:46.880 ordering a total and complete blockade of all sanctioned oil 2:24:46.920 --> 2:24:49.680 tankers going into and out of Venezuela. The illegal aliens 2:24:49.720 --> 2:24:51.480 and criminals that the Madeira regime has sent to the 2:24:51.560 --> 2:24:54.360 United States during the weekend and Biden administration are being 2:24:54.400 --> 2:24:57.560 returned to Venezuela at a rapid pace. YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah, 2:24:57.879 --> 2:25:00.040 all of our oil, land and other assets have to 2:25:00.120 --> 2:25:01.400 be returned to the United States. 2:25:01.520 --> 2:25:03.439 Which, like he's talking. 2:25:03.200 --> 2:25:06.720 About oil that American companies have had at points like 2:25:06.840 --> 2:25:10.520 contracts to exploit. But he's phrasing it is like their 2:25:10.600 --> 2:25:13.120 land and oil is our land and oil, which yeah, 2:25:13.160 --> 2:25:15.240 I think that's a very colonial way of phrasing like 2:25:15.800 --> 2:25:16.439 a contract. 2:25:17.720 --> 2:25:18.039 Again. 2:25:18.240 --> 2:25:21.080 A lot of times, you know, I would be like, Okay, well, 2:25:21.120 --> 2:25:23.160 I don't know if war is the most reasonable thing 2:25:23.240 --> 2:25:26.160 to expect. When the president's posting shit like that, it's 2:25:26.360 --> 2:25:28.440 very reasonable to be like, I think we might. 2:25:28.400 --> 2:25:28.840 Go to war. 2:25:29.120 --> 2:25:31.840 I think he might be about to invade Venezuela. I 2:25:31.959 --> 2:25:34.520 don't know what's going to happen, but it's you're no 2:25:34.680 --> 2:25:39.160 longer being like a kooky conspiracy theorist to be like, well, 2:25:39.200 --> 2:25:42.600 maybe he's about to try to take over Venezuela, and maybe. 2:25:42.400 --> 2:25:45.520 That is what's coming. Yeah, I don't understand how in 2:25:45.600 --> 2:25:49.240 that instance they would continue to get Venezuela to accept people. 2:25:49.360 --> 2:25:53.680 It's the US is removing. That's what the sticking points 2:25:53.720 --> 2:25:56.080 that I see. Maybe he's found at that country right 2:25:56.160 --> 2:25:59.720 that they've they've been very fond of finding the countries. 2:26:00.640 --> 2:26:04.320 I guess I should explain a little bit about oil 2:26:04.560 --> 2:26:07.840 leaving Venezuela, just so like people are aware of that. 2:26:08.480 --> 2:26:12.720 So like Robert read the truth, someone says in church, 2:26:12.840 --> 2:26:16.720 doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, here we are. So they're talking 2:26:16.720 --> 2:26:21.320 about like blockading sanctioned oil tankers, not necessarily every tanker 2:26:21.400 --> 2:26:24.080 that enters Venezuela. Is sanctioned, like I believe Chevron has 2:26:24.120 --> 2:26:28.080 some contracts with Chevron. Tankers should be cruising, Yeah, there's 2:26:28.080 --> 2:26:30.360 a lot of Chevron. Yeah, that shouldn't be an issue, right, 2:26:30.400 --> 2:26:31.800 they should be able to go back and forth. They're 2:26:31.840 --> 2:26:32.400 not sanctioned. 2:26:33.160 --> 2:26:36.360 It's the Venezuelan State Oil Company, which in English, I 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:43.080 guess you would say Pdvsavasa Divasa's yeah, yeah, yeah, what 2:26:43.280 --> 2:26:45.959 Venezuela has done previously, and this is not by any 2:26:46.000 --> 2:26:50.200 means unique to Venezuela, but this is generally how many 2:26:50.280 --> 2:26:52.440 of these regimes that are kind of in the ambit 2:26:52.520 --> 2:26:55.400 of Venezuela I'm talking about Iran and Russia here have 2:26:55.560 --> 2:26:59.760 avoided sanctions and sanctioned entities so far as by using 2:26:59.800 --> 2:27:01.360 what A called ghost ships. 2:27:01.800 --> 2:27:05.480 I will link to an explainer on this. What they 2:27:05.520 --> 2:27:08.360 will do is use the names and identify as the 2:27:08.480 --> 2:27:11.800 vessels that have been scrapped. They will change the flags 2:27:12.000 --> 2:27:15.320 of vessels, often to these small island nations for whom 2:27:15.560 --> 2:27:18.240 allowing ships to use their flag as kind of a 2:27:18.320 --> 2:27:22.800 source of income, right, And they will often use these 2:27:23.280 --> 2:27:27.560 to go out into international waters and then offload cargo, 2:27:27.680 --> 2:27:28.400 in this case oil. 2:27:28.480 --> 2:27:28.600 Right. 2:27:28.600 --> 2:27:31.720 So it just happens pretty frequently with Venezuelan vessels. That 2:27:31.920 --> 2:27:34.640 was one It was one such vessel called the Skipper 2:27:34.760 --> 2:27:38.000 that the US Coast Guard boarded I think last week 2:27:38.080 --> 2:27:41.359 as we're recording this. Yeah, sure, that is how Venezuela 2:27:41.440 --> 2:27:44.880 has previously been evading these sanctions, right, And Iran does 2:27:44.920 --> 2:27:48.280 this too, Russia does this too. They also do things 2:27:48.320 --> 2:27:51.640 like spoof their location or turn off their They have 2:27:51.760 --> 2:27:53.920 like a locator beacon that ships are supposed to use 2:27:54.080 --> 2:27:58.359 a transpond area. Yeah, so this is fairly common practice. 2:27:58.480 --> 2:28:01.240 But obviously the way to stop that a physical blockade, right, Like, 2:28:01.560 --> 2:28:04.440 that's not going to be possible if these if the 2:28:04.560 --> 2:28:09.000 US is effectively like inspecting ships leaving Venezuela, right or 2:28:09.280 --> 2:28:11.600 sort of keeping a very close eye on them, so 2:28:12.200 --> 2:28:14.360 that will end and with that will end a very 2:28:15.080 --> 2:28:17.800 important source of income for the Maduta regime if they 2:28:17.879 --> 2:28:18.400 keep doing this. 2:28:19.440 --> 2:28:19.680 Yeah. 2:28:20.200 --> 2:28:22.640 Now, obviously one of the sort of issues we're trying 2:28:22.680 --> 2:28:24.440 to work out what is going to happen here, especially 2:28:24.520 --> 2:28:27.480 before whatever speech Trump is about to give, is that 2:28:27.760 --> 2:28:31.680 we're trying to figure out state policy from Trump posting, right, Yeah, 2:28:31.879 --> 2:28:34.119 and there's a lot of this that is enormously incoherent. 2:28:34.240 --> 2:28:37.920 So okay, the thing about designating the government of Venezuela 2:28:38.000 --> 2:28:41.879 as a foreign terrorist organization is one of the weirdest 2:28:42.040 --> 2:28:45.880 things I've ever seen. And this was also unhinged. The 2:28:46.000 --> 2:28:48.920 closest thing we've ever really gotten to that I guess 2:28:49.120 --> 2:28:52.840 was the IERGC. Yeah, and maybe you could go back 2:28:52.920 --> 2:28:56.640 and say the Khmer Rouge, but like, they weren't really 2:28:56.760 --> 2:29:00.760 a government by that point. So this is this is 2:29:00.840 --> 2:29:02.840 not a designation that has ever been given to a 2:29:03.000 --> 2:29:05.800 government before. Right, it doesn't make any sense to give 2:29:05.840 --> 2:29:07.840 it to a government. It doesn't make sense to give 2:29:07.879 --> 2:29:09.640 to this government. I mean, you know, even if you're 2:29:09.680 --> 2:29:11.880 working with in the logic of counter terrorism, which is 2:29:12.040 --> 2:29:16.440 just you know, unhinged murderous imperialism to begin with. But 2:29:16.959 --> 2:29:19.440 all of the reporting on this has been assuming that 2:29:19.560 --> 2:29:22.920 the blockade will be of you know, like of these 2:29:22.920 --> 2:29:27.920 specifically sanctioned oil tankers. However, come the thing about the 2:29:27.920 --> 2:29:31.680 foreign terrorist organization designation is that it does things. And 2:29:31.760 --> 2:29:36.039 one of the things that that foreign terrorist organization designation 2:29:36.240 --> 2:29:38.120 does is that if you do business with a with 2:29:38.160 --> 2:29:41.640 a foreign terrorist organization, you are now immediately on the 2:29:41.760 --> 2:29:46.360 line from material support of terrorism charges like Chevron. So yes, 2:29:46.760 --> 2:29:50.039 there are lots of countries like Facebook, does. 2:29:49.959 --> 2:29:53.240 This fine with the US military carrying out air strikes 2:29:53.280 --> 2:29:56.560 on Chevron executives and there and their property. 2:29:56.720 --> 2:29:57.800 Let's be clear about that. 2:29:58.400 --> 2:30:00.840 I would I would salute the had, white and blue 2:30:00.879 --> 2:30:03.160 if we dropped some hell fires on that C suite. 2:30:05.400 --> 2:30:08.000 Yeah, I don't know. This is all very weird. My 2:30:08.120 --> 2:30:11.680 understanding of the FTO designation process is that, well, how 2:30:11.680 --> 2:30:14.600 it's supposed to work is that the President proposes it, 2:30:14.760 --> 2:30:17.600 and then the Secretary of State and Secretary of the 2:30:17.680 --> 2:30:20.680 Treasurer I think, have to improve it, and then there's 2:30:20.720 --> 2:30:23.840 a seven day period where Congress has it an opportunity 2:30:23.959 --> 2:30:27.360 to say no, and then it goes up. So right 2:30:27.440 --> 2:30:30.360 now we should be theoretically in the seven day window, 2:30:30.440 --> 2:30:32.720 but it's also really unclear what the administration has actually 2:30:32.800 --> 2:30:38.720 been doing because again we're being governed by post. Yeah. 2:30:38.840 --> 2:30:41.920 Like it's so it's not announced as an executive action 2:30:42.040 --> 2:30:45.120 on White House dot gov, and I think normally it 2:30:45.280 --> 2:30:50.279 goes there and then the seven day congressional period commences. 2:30:50.360 --> 2:30:53.120 Then it's not an a federal rights to either. Right now, 2:30:53.280 --> 2:30:55.720 all we have is a truth, so. 2:30:56.080 --> 2:30:58.360 Like yeah, like and this is this is the problem 2:30:58.400 --> 2:30:59.920 is that this is this is sort of the Calvin 2:31:00.280 --> 2:31:04.080 War in that they're using they're using the names of 2:31:04.240 --> 2:31:07.800 actual legal categories and things that have material effects in 2:31:07.800 --> 2:31:10.160 the world, but they're just posts. And I want to 2:31:10.400 --> 2:31:13.879 be very clear about this. Even just doing a blockade 2:31:14.400 --> 2:31:17.560 on these sanctioned vessels is an active war. Yeah, like 2:31:17.680 --> 2:31:20.960 that's an act that's very deliberately an active war. It 2:31:21.120 --> 2:31:24.160 is an active imperial aggression. It is morally wrong. It 2:31:24.320 --> 2:31:28.680 is also unbelievably illegal under the War Powers Act. And this, 2:31:28.879 --> 2:31:31.400 this is, this has actually gotten a response from Democrats 2:31:31.440 --> 2:31:35.600 in Congress. There's been a few measures. CBS is reporting 2:31:35.640 --> 2:31:37.920 this has been if there's been a few measures to 2:31:38.360 --> 2:31:41.360 stop the president from starting a war. Here, I'm going 2:31:41.440 --> 2:31:44.880 to quote CBS. A second measure from Democratic Rep. Jim 2:31:44.959 --> 2:31:49.039 mcgovernor in Massachusetts would remove the armed forces quote from 2:31:49.120 --> 2:31:52.160 hostilities with or against Venezuela that have not been authorized 2:31:52.160 --> 2:31:56.440 by Congress. McGovern's resolution could face the best chance of 2:31:56.560 --> 2:32:00.720 potential adoption since it has three gop CO sponsors. Rep's 2:32:00.760 --> 2:32:03.800 Marjory Taylor Green of Georgia, Thomas Massey of Kentucky, and 2:32:03.920 --> 2:32:06.880 Don Bacon of Nebraska. Bacon says, you would also vote 2:32:06.879 --> 2:32:09.720 and vi here Meeks's measure. Bacon's taking a very weird 2:32:09.800 --> 2:32:12.880 line here of Keene's in congressional approval. And also I 2:32:12.959 --> 2:32:13.879 support him doing this. 2:32:14.920 --> 2:32:17.280 So surely a procedural objection. 2:32:17.800 --> 2:32:20.160 Yeah, it's a I want my boar, but I want 2:32:20.240 --> 2:32:24.120 Congress to have a little shred of power. Yeah, so 2:32:24.400 --> 2:32:27.080 I think it's alcial work noting what exactly is going 2:32:27.120 --> 2:32:30.640 on here. I'm someone who's on the record as talking 2:32:30.680 --> 2:32:34.680 about how political economy in Latin America and American imperialism 2:32:34.800 --> 2:32:37.440 is usually slightly more complicated than they just want to resource, 2:32:37.520 --> 2:32:40.840 but they just want to resource here. Yeah, this one, 2:32:41.000 --> 2:32:43.920 this one really is Yeah, no, like so it's only 2:32:44.000 --> 2:32:46.440 like like like Bolivia, for example, every everyone thinks that 2:32:46.480 --> 2:32:50.320 that the whole coup Oblivia was about lithium and it yest. Yeah, 2:32:50.440 --> 2:32:51.400 I'm very mad about this. 2:32:51.720 --> 2:32:52.080 It was not. 2:32:52.240 --> 2:32:53.920 If you look at the people of you look at Camato, 2:32:53.920 --> 2:32:55.600 if you look at people who were actually running that coup, 2:32:55.800 --> 2:32:58.800 they were all Bolivia agrobarons. Because a huge part of 2:32:58.840 --> 2:33:01.240 what was going on there was a rebellion by the 2:33:01.320 --> 2:33:05.080 sort of agrobusiness like agricultural elite who like joined with 2:33:05.240 --> 2:33:07.480 parts of like a reactionary every middle class. Okay, but 2:33:07.800 --> 2:33:12.199 this is not that Venezuela has the world's largest oil preserves, 2:33:12.600 --> 2:33:15.560 but there were significant problems extracting the oil right. Many 2:33:15.600 --> 2:33:17.760 of these problems stem from the two thousand and two 2:33:17.760 --> 2:33:19.960 to two thousand and three opposition general strike. This is 2:33:20.040 --> 2:33:24.279 back after Hugo Chaves was elected. So in two thousand 2:33:24.280 --> 2:33:27.600 and two there was a coup against Chaves that failed 2:33:28.040 --> 2:33:31.720 and was sort of overturned famously. But later that year 2:33:32.040 --> 2:33:34.880 there was also a sort of opposition general strike that 2:33:34.959 --> 2:33:37.880 lasted from late two thousand and two to early two 2:33:37.879 --> 2:33:40.200 thousand and three, and a huge part of that general 2:33:40.240 --> 2:33:43.200 strike was oil workers specifically, and it was very specifically. 2:33:44.120 --> 2:33:45.800 One of the things about the structure of oil production 2:33:45.920 --> 2:33:48.120 is that there were a bunch of very very highly 2:33:48.280 --> 2:33:52.160 paid and highly skilled technical workers who are very very 2:33:52.200 --> 2:33:54.400 loyal to the oil companies themselves and who are very 2:33:54.480 --> 2:33:56.720 loyal to who are sort of tend to be very 2:33:56.840 --> 2:34:00.120 right wing. These people went on strike and sort have 2:34:00.200 --> 2:34:03.600 got fired on mass. Oil production requires both a huge 2:34:03.640 --> 2:34:06.000 amount of heavy capital and a bunch of highly skilled workers, 2:34:06.040 --> 2:34:08.640 and if you don't have both of those things, then 2:34:08.920 --> 2:34:11.120 you can't do oil extraction. And this has sort of 2:34:12.040 --> 2:34:14.879 been a recurring problem for the entire time most sort 2:34:14.879 --> 2:34:17.600 of fugual Trofas and Majuro has been in office is 2:34:17.640 --> 2:34:20.600 that they haven't had the capacity to actually extract a 2:34:20.640 --> 2:34:23.039 bunch of the oil. And also they've refused to turn 2:34:23.280 --> 2:34:25.600 the oil over to more American companies that have already 2:34:25.720 --> 2:34:26.440 been contracted. 2:34:26.840 --> 2:34:29.160 And it's also worth noting there's a lot of talk 2:34:29.200 --> 2:34:32.960 about like Venezuela having the world's largest reserves, and a 2:34:33.160 --> 2:34:37.240 lot of that is like them jinking the numbers by 2:34:37.360 --> 2:34:39.920 including a lot of like tire sands, that would be 2:34:40.200 --> 2:34:44.240 that no one's going to try to get extract like 2:34:44.520 --> 2:34:46.760 fuel from because it's too expensive and too much of 2:34:46.760 --> 2:34:47.520 a pain in the ass. 2:34:47.600 --> 2:34:50.879 It's just not worth it anyway. And also that claims 2:34:50.879 --> 2:34:53.240 to reserves that are not actually part of Venezuela at 2:34:53.280 --> 2:34:53.840 this time. 2:34:53.959 --> 2:34:58.720 Right right, Like we're not working with exact with accurate information. 2:34:59.280 --> 2:35:02.160 Yeah, it's messy. And it's also worth noting that like 2:35:02.720 --> 2:35:05.720 the oil numbers, I mean, obviously all oil numbers are political, 2:35:05.840 --> 2:35:08.360 but the oil numbers here are extraordinarily political because these 2:35:08.360 --> 2:35:11.080 are numbers that are basically used as a pitch by 2:35:11.280 --> 2:35:14.440 sort of like the opposition to try to get a 2:35:14.640 --> 2:35:17.640 US backed too. And it's also sort of word noting 2:35:17.680 --> 2:35:19.480 that the other thing that's happening here, and the reason 2:35:19.560 --> 2:35:23.280 this is all going to probably cause really significant economic 2:35:23.320 --> 2:35:26.360 problems and probably humanitarian disaster, both in Venezuela and probably 2:35:26.400 --> 2:35:30.800 also in Cuba, which extensively relies on Venezuelan oil to 2:35:31.160 --> 2:35:34.560 have their economy function, is that the Venezuelan economy has 2:35:34.640 --> 2:35:39.160 been really structured around oil in a way that they 2:35:39.280 --> 2:35:42.640 fail to transition out of multiple times. The first big 2:35:42.720 --> 2:35:45.200 one I've done in a different episode about this in 2:35:45.240 --> 2:35:47.160 the neolipicalis my series a bunch of years ago. But 2:35:47.400 --> 2:35:49.440 you know, there was a whole bunch of delivery sabotage 2:35:49.480 --> 2:35:51.560 by American car companies over then attempt to build a 2:35:51.560 --> 2:35:54.640 car industry. There's a long sort of history of this, 2:35:54.800 --> 2:35:56.800 but it means that both of these countries economies are 2:35:56.879 --> 2:36:00.640 desperately reliant on oil, and the more of this is 2:36:00.760 --> 2:36:02.720 just that is cut off, the more fuck it's going 2:36:02.760 --> 2:36:04.520 to get for just everyone in Venezuela. 2:36:04.800 --> 2:36:07.600 Yeah, yeah, and you can already see how much worse 2:36:07.680 --> 2:36:11.880 it's got from the time I went to Venezuela to 2:36:12.040 --> 2:36:14.600 to now, like, they're very vulnerable to changes in crude 2:36:14.640 --> 2:36:19.200 oil prices, right, and that has, along with corruption in 2:36:19.640 --> 2:36:21.520 a government which doesn't really give a shit about the 2:36:21.640 --> 2:36:25.960 material welfare of its people, has already made things unsustainably 2:36:26.040 --> 2:36:28.240 hard for people in Venezuela. And that will only get worse. 2:36:28.720 --> 2:36:32.959 Yeah, So I want to conclude, basically on a couple 2:36:32.959 --> 2:36:35.240 of things. Wonders that too, this is going to cause 2:36:35.560 --> 2:36:40.600 more waves of migration and refugees fleeing the country, both 2:36:40.640 --> 2:36:43.400 from potential realist military strikes and form the economic damage. 2:36:44.200 --> 2:36:47.000 There's been some moves in the international stage, with China 2:36:47.040 --> 2:36:50.920 and Mexico expressing support for the Venezuelan government. Shine Bomber 2:36:50.920 --> 2:36:55.080 in Mexico has offered to facilitate negotiations and media negotiations 2:36:55.120 --> 2:36:57.960 from the US and Venezuela. It's also kind of worth 2:36:58.000 --> 2:37:00.800 noting that right before the whole thing, there is a 2:37:00.840 --> 2:37:05.640 giant Vanity Fair interview with Susie Wiles, who's Trump's chief 2:37:05.720 --> 2:37:10.080 of staff. Who oh boy, this is for Roiderry Dubbs. 2:37:10.120 --> 2:37:13.400 This week Coller here God said, Trump quote wants to 2:37:13.520 --> 2:37:16.880 keep blowing up boats until Maduro christ Uncle, which is 2:37:17.640 --> 2:37:20.320 one of the most hideous things I've ever heard. Yeah, 2:37:20.959 --> 2:37:25.400 it's gangsters, it's literally terrorism. It's it's a highway. 2:37:25.560 --> 2:37:25.760 Yeah. 2:37:26.280 --> 2:37:29.520 Yeah, it is in Australia structurally, unless you resign, we 2:37:29.600 --> 2:37:33.360 are going to keep killing civilians. But it's hartshest taker ship. Yeah. 2:37:33.560 --> 2:37:37.400 It's also a fundamental misunderstanding of how the regime operates 2:37:37.400 --> 2:37:38.080 if that is the case. 2:37:38.120 --> 2:37:40.640 So because they don't care if their people kept dying. 2:37:40.959 --> 2:37:45.240 I have seen Venezuela and people die in the Darian Gap, right, 2:37:45.640 --> 2:37:49.360 because in part the government is incapable of providing for 2:37:49.440 --> 2:37:50.200 their material needs. 2:37:50.280 --> 2:37:53.880 They don't care. Killing some other people with boats is 2:37:53.959 --> 2:37:56.520 not going to fundamentally change the way that government works, 2:37:56.520 --> 2:37:58.320 because there's only one way it can work. 2:37:59.120 --> 2:38:00.840 Yeah, and I think I think there's the one lat 2:38:00.840 --> 2:38:02.840 thing I want to say about this before we head 2:38:02.879 --> 2:38:05.959 out slash, before whatever giant update comes after the speech. 2:38:06.520 --> 2:38:08.360 Yeah, I've got one after you finish here. 2:38:08.600 --> 2:38:10.160 One of the big problems here is if people in 2:38:10.200 --> 2:38:13.360 the administration really do believe this, they actually do think 2:38:13.400 --> 2:38:15.400 that you can knock off the governments with air strikes, 2:38:15.440 --> 2:38:17.560 and no you can't, No you can't. I thought this 2:38:17.640 --> 2:38:21.360 about the Huthies too. It's wrong, it's never been right. 2:38:21.640 --> 2:38:22.440 It's hideous. 2:38:23.160 --> 2:38:26.240 We just finished doing like a five parter on bastards 2:38:26.400 --> 2:38:29.360 about like the nuclear doom state device that also dealt 2:38:29.400 --> 2:38:33.360 heavily with the work of that Italian Air Force General Duhey, 2:38:33.520 --> 2:38:35.760 who was the first guy in nineteen twenty one to 2:38:35.840 --> 2:38:38.640 be like, all you need are bombers, nothing else is 2:38:38.760 --> 2:38:41.880 necessary in militaries now it's nothing but bombers from here, 2:38:41.920 --> 2:38:43.440 and if you have enough bombers, no one will ever 2:38:43.480 --> 2:38:46.640 attack you. And this logic has always been wrong. And 2:38:46.760 --> 2:38:51.520 it's also every new generation of like military leaders, especially 2:38:51.680 --> 2:38:54.959 in the air power field, are like, all we need 2:38:55.120 --> 2:38:57.480 is air strikes. You don't need to send in ground. 2:38:57.560 --> 2:38:59.800 You could accomplish all of your goals, all of your 2:39:00.040 --> 2:39:03.880 our projection, just by bombing people or shooting missiles at them. 2:39:04.160 --> 2:39:08.200 And they're always wrong. It doesn't work. It's just not effective. 2:39:08.680 --> 2:39:11.520 Yeah, Like I think the Trump administration is somewhat I 2:39:11.520 --> 2:39:13.160 don't want to say high on its own supply. They 2:39:13.240 --> 2:39:18.680 had success in Syria with removing the territorial Caliphate, mostly 2:39:18.959 --> 2:39:20.400 using US air power. 2:39:20.480 --> 2:39:23.600 Right, it wasn't a big US that was the US part. 2:39:23.720 --> 2:39:27.320 There was still a this shitload of Kurdish. 2:39:27.520 --> 2:39:28.080 But it's the thing. 2:39:28.840 --> 2:39:33.760 And yeah, eleven twelve thousand Kurdish people died to remove 2:39:33.800 --> 2:39:36.080 the Islamic more have died since, right, Yeah. 2:39:36.160 --> 2:39:40.720 And also a shitload of Iraqi soldiers, a mix of 2:39:40.800 --> 2:39:44.680 Kurds and largely guys from in and around Baghdad, but like, yeah, 2:39:44.800 --> 2:39:45.240 like a lot. 2:39:45.160 --> 2:39:48.040 Of and a bunch of Arab Syrians. And I don't 2:39:48.080 --> 2:39:52.240 miss it like ethnically geeky this at all Assyrian people Armenian. 2:39:51.920 --> 2:39:55.280 No, But like a huge amount of the effort was guys. 2:39:55.360 --> 2:39:56.920 I mean literally I was in bed with some of 2:39:57.000 --> 2:39:59.440 these guys a lot of Like the fighting tip was 2:39:59.520 --> 2:40:02.840 like literally really dudes with fucking knives and hand grenade. 2:40:02.879 --> 2:40:06.440 It's clearing buildings in hand to hand com Yeah, those 2:40:06.520 --> 2:40:09.280 were the people who faced danger, right, like, and that's 2:40:09.320 --> 2:40:12.360 what you need to Unfortunately you can't do war with 2:40:12.440 --> 2:40:15.440 computers yet. Yeah, but yeah, I think that that might 2:40:15.520 --> 2:40:18.680 be where this this belief that and like the Marca 2:40:18.760 --> 2:40:23.080 Rubio lobby, right, the Florida Cubans who are invested in 2:40:23.200 --> 2:40:26.280 this kind of Trump corrollary to the Monroe doctrine, right, 2:40:26.320 --> 2:40:28.760 and the idea that they can roll back leftist regimes 2:40:28.920 --> 2:40:33.119 in uh like South and Central America. Yep. I think 2:40:33.160 --> 2:40:35.200 that's where a lot of the pressure is coming from. 2:40:35.560 --> 2:40:38.440 Yeah, speaking of pressure, we are being pressured to go 2:40:38.640 --> 2:40:53.720 to ads. That's right, beautiful, and we're back. There's an 2:40:53.800 --> 2:40:56.240 update I just came across as we're doing this. We 2:40:56.360 --> 2:40:59.040 talked about how Tucker is an inside source saying that 2:40:59.080 --> 2:41:02.360 Trump's basically gonna clare war. There's another article that just 2:41:02.440 --> 2:41:07.080 came out on Stitch Snitches by Gloria Shaw, citing a 2:41:07.600 --> 2:41:11.240 pro Trump host on Real America's Voice who characterized the 2:41:11.360 --> 2:41:15.360 upcoming Oval Office address as a pr thing meant basically 2:41:16.000 --> 2:41:18.360 as an acknowledgment that a lot of Trump's voters are 2:41:18.400 --> 2:41:22.920 frustrated that he keeps talking about like international issues like Venezuela, 2:41:23.320 --> 2:41:25.959 while everything is more expensive for them and they continue 2:41:26.000 --> 2:41:28.640 to lose their jobs and the economy is shit. To 2:41:28.800 --> 2:41:32.040 quote from that article, and this is them quoting a 2:41:32.200 --> 2:41:35.880 segment from that Real America's Voice podcast. The remarks came 2:41:35.959 --> 2:41:37.680 during a segment on The water Cooler with co host 2:41:37.760 --> 2:41:39.879 David Brody, who teas the nine pm Eastern address as 2:41:39.879 --> 2:41:42.720 an elevated effort to regain the narrative on affordability. The 2:41:42.800 --> 2:41:44.640 President is going to be in the Oval Office tonight 2:41:44.720 --> 2:41:46.959 nine pm Eastern, Brody said, big address to the nation. 2:41:47.080 --> 2:41:49.640 He's elevating this clearly, this is to regain the narrative 2:41:49.640 --> 2:41:51.920 and explain more about the affordability issue in America and 2:41:51.959 --> 2:41:54.240 what this administration is doing. I think they're trying to 2:41:54.280 --> 2:41:55.680 seize this right off the top and make sure it 2:41:55.680 --> 2:41:57.680 doesn't get away from them and the Claims Series. 2:41:57.680 --> 2:42:00.160 Basically, like this is Trump trying to steal an night 2:42:00.240 --> 2:42:03.519 March on the twenty twenty six election cycle and reset 2:42:04.160 --> 2:42:07.200 a lot of what people are talking about around affordability. 2:42:07.760 --> 2:42:11.160 Like this argument is that now he's basically acknowledging that 2:42:11.240 --> 2:42:13.280 it's been kind of a mistake to focus so much 2:42:13.560 --> 2:42:18.039 on his overseas policies, and he really needs to start 2:42:18.160 --> 2:42:20.800 promising that that Golden Age is actually going to come 2:42:20.879 --> 2:42:24.959 for his voters, which the numbers don't bear out right, 2:42:25.200 --> 2:42:28.040 Like almost no jobs have been added in the US 2:42:28.120 --> 2:42:32.000 since April. There's about seven hundred thousand more people unemployed 2:42:32.040 --> 2:42:34.280 now than there were in November of twenty twenty four. 2:42:34.400 --> 2:42:37.520 Like things aren't yeah good, Inflation is still wild, Inflation 2:42:37.760 --> 2:42:42.480 is real bad. Look food and like the material things 2:42:42.520 --> 2:42:46.560 that we need are going up in price faster than inflation, 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:49.280 Like it's no good, and people like on his own 2:42:49.360 --> 2:42:52.360 side the thought. Jessica Tarlov, who's a Fox News host 2:42:52.440 --> 2:42:56.240 of The Five Quote, tweeted a post about how like 2:42:56.360 --> 2:42:59.840 the hiring recession just with the golden age attached with 2:43:00.000 --> 2:43:01.840 which is like what Trump has been saying. You know, 2:43:01.879 --> 2:43:03.400 we're going to have a new Golden age if you 2:43:03.480 --> 2:43:07.080 make me president. So like the fact that he hasn't 2:43:07.160 --> 2:43:09.600 done he hasn't followed through in any of his promises 2:43:09.640 --> 2:43:13.840 to actually improve life for his voters, or the economy 2:43:14.520 --> 2:43:17.720 is starting to hurt. And I guess I'm hopeful that 2:43:17.959 --> 2:43:20.160 that's what it is, rather than the Marines are about 2:43:20.160 --> 2:43:22.560 to be in Caracas, right, but I guess we'll see 2:43:22.760 --> 2:43:23.200 very soon. 2:43:23.879 --> 2:43:29.039 Yeah, great stuff. Yeah, talking of international stuff Trump is doing, 2:43:29.360 --> 2:43:32.520 let's talk about the new travel ban. So this this 2:43:32.680 --> 2:43:36.120 travel band dropped yesterday, that was Tuesday. So it previously 2:43:36.160 --> 2:43:38.960 had this nineteen country travel ban, right. Some of that 2:43:39.240 --> 2:43:41.880 was a complete bar to entry if for citizens of 2:43:41.920 --> 2:43:45.320 those countries or to new these entries. Some of it 2:43:45.480 --> 2:43:49.240 was a partial bar to immigrant visas, not to not 2:43:49.360 --> 2:43:50.480 to non immigrant visas. 2:43:50.560 --> 2:43:50.680 Right. 2:43:51.040 --> 2:43:55.040 They have now expanded this to twenty more countries, so 2:43:55.440 --> 2:43:58.039 totally banned now from getting new visas to enter the USA. 2:43:58.080 --> 2:44:02.000 A citizens of Bokina, Fosso, Maalini share South Studan, and 2:44:02.360 --> 2:44:05.640 Syria as well as a Palestinian authority. The Syrian one 2:44:05.680 --> 2:44:08.360 is particularly wild because I'll share it justice to the 2:44:08.400 --> 2:44:12.960 White House. There are like individual case by case exceptions, right. Like, 2:44:13.080 --> 2:44:16.600 It's not that they wouldn't block al Shara, I'm sure, 2:44:16.640 --> 2:44:20.760 but like it's interesting to look at the justifications that 2:44:20.879 --> 2:44:23.800 they use here. What they are basically saying, I'll just 2:44:23.879 --> 2:44:26.880 read a couple of them here to give you an example, right. Quote, 2:44:26.879 --> 2:44:29.480 at least one country lacks mechanisms in hospitals to ensure 2:44:29.520 --> 2:44:32.640 bursts are reported, and widespread corruption, combined with a general 2:44:32.760 --> 2:44:35.800 lack of vecking and poor record keeping, result in any 2:44:35.879 --> 2:44:38.920 non citizen being able to obtain any civil document from 2:44:39.000 --> 2:44:41.600 that country, particularly if that person is willing to pay 2:44:41.640 --> 2:44:45.720 a fee or engage an individual that specializes in assisting 2:44:45.800 --> 2:44:49.959 in such fraud. They go on to basically document failures 2:44:50.040 --> 2:44:54.200 in government bureaucracy that they talk about corruption. Right, They 2:44:54.280 --> 2:44:57.199 talk about places where birth CTIF forgets are just written 2:44:57.360 --> 2:45:00.520 by hand. They talk about places where they government does 2:45:00.560 --> 2:45:05.240 not control all the territory, prevalence of crime, places which 2:45:05.280 --> 2:45:10.040 offer citizenship by investment without physical residents. They also talk 2:45:10.120 --> 2:45:13.400 about some of these countries not being willing to accept 2:45:13.480 --> 2:45:18.320 their nationals to the US deports and again visa overstair rates, right, 2:45:18.320 --> 2:45:20.840 which is what they spoke about last time. What is 2:45:20.879 --> 2:45:23.560 getting less reporting, or at least was this morning when 2:45:23.560 --> 2:45:28.000 I looked, was that they have removed exemptions which existed 2:45:28.080 --> 2:45:33.360 for the previous nineteen. These include family member visas right. 2:45:33.840 --> 2:45:36.840 So that means that, for instance, someone who could themselves 2:45:36.879 --> 2:45:39.240 become a permanent resident or even a citizen, now cannot 2:45:39.440 --> 2:45:42.879 bring a family member, say a spouse, a sibling, etc. 2:45:43.360 --> 2:45:47.160 Across even though those people were people see vetied. And 2:45:47.560 --> 2:45:52.440 it appears some there is certain categories of SIVs are exempt, 2:45:52.560 --> 2:45:55.279 but I believe not all SIVs, so that's especially immigrant 2:45:55.360 --> 2:45:58.520 visa right. The vast bulk of SIVs will be Afghan 2:45:58.600 --> 2:46:03.240 people who worked with the US military in Afghanistan. The 2:46:04.320 --> 2:46:08.080 nineteen countries who are now partially restricted are I'm just 2:46:08.120 --> 2:46:14.039 going to read them of Angola, Antigram, Barbuda, Benin Kuttivois, Dominica, Gabon, 2:46:14.520 --> 2:46:20.920 the Gambia, Malawi, Mauritanian, Nigeria, senegauld Tanzania, Tonga, Zambia and Zimbabwe. 2:46:21.680 --> 2:46:24.119 For some reason, the first five of these are underlined 2:46:24.640 --> 2:46:26.920 on the White House website. I don't know if some 2:46:27.000 --> 2:46:29.720 well copied and pisted them across with hyperlinks. 2:46:29.160 --> 2:46:29.960 Like I don't know. 2:46:30.600 --> 2:46:33.680 I'm unable to work out why that they're not hyperlinked 2:46:34.080 --> 2:46:36.480 in the document, but there doesn't seem to be any 2:46:36.959 --> 2:46:39.520 any explanation like this. There's no special set of sanctions 2:46:39.560 --> 2:46:42.880 for those and they're just in alphabetical order. They actually 2:46:43.000 --> 2:46:48.039 reduced restrictions on Turkmenistan because quote suspension of entry into 2:46:48.080 --> 2:46:51.400 the United States of Nationals of Turkmenistan as non immigrants 2:46:51.480 --> 2:46:55.120 on B one, B two FM and jvs as is 2:46:55.200 --> 2:46:58.400 lifted because some concerns remain. The entry into the United 2:46:58.440 --> 2:47:02.360 States of Nationals of Turkmenistan is immigrants remain suspended. The 2:47:02.640 --> 2:47:05.080 last element of this that I want to cover is 2:47:05.120 --> 2:47:08.400 that it would appear to stop international adoptions from the 2:47:08.480 --> 2:47:11.959 listed countries, like all of those thirty nine listed countries, 2:47:12.840 --> 2:47:17.120 which is wild and like particularly unfortunate because I know, 2:47:17.360 --> 2:47:21.880 like people who who adopt children from outside the United 2:47:21.879 --> 2:47:24.000 States like that is a process that takes years and 2:47:24.400 --> 2:47:26.800 I can imagine it being horrifically traumatic to have it 2:47:27.440 --> 2:47:31.960 suddenly cut off like this. But consciously, unconsciously, that is 2:47:32.040 --> 2:47:36.320 what this UH executive action appears to do. So that 2:47:36.480 --> 2:47:39.280 is not great. It seems that the United States is 2:47:39.600 --> 2:47:43.920 using this as a kind of cudgel, right to encourage 2:47:43.920 --> 2:47:46.160 those countries to It's kind of a quid pro quote. 2:47:46.480 --> 2:47:49.000 They get what they want they got from Turkmenistan apparently 2:47:49.080 --> 2:47:52.199 then that they will remove some of those restrictions otherwise 2:47:52.400 --> 2:47:56.560 they will continue them. So yeah, that's not great. So 2:47:57.120 --> 2:48:00.280 Judge Hannah Dugan's trial began this week. Do you know, 2:48:00.360 --> 2:48:02.160 if you're not familiar, she's not the judge in New 2:48:02.200 --> 2:48:05.440 Mexico who was accused of providing firearms to somebody who 2:48:05.520 --> 2:48:08.080 was not a permanent resident or citizen. She is a 2:48:08.160 --> 2:48:11.680 judge who is accused of allowing a migrant man named 2:48:11.680 --> 2:48:15.720 mister Flores Luise to leave her court room from a 2:48:15.920 --> 2:48:20.560 door that is not the usual door. That door led 2:48:20.600 --> 2:48:24.400 to a private corridor. In that private corridor, there was 2:48:24.560 --> 2:48:27.320 one exit to a public area and also a door 2:48:27.440 --> 2:48:31.080 to a fire escape mister Flora's ruiz took the exit 2:48:31.160 --> 2:48:34.520 to the public area. He then took a lift down 2:48:34.800 --> 2:48:37.640 I think to the ground floor with an ICE officer. 2:48:38.840 --> 2:48:41.800 He then attempted to run away when ICE officers attempted 2:48:41.840 --> 2:48:44.560 to detain him. When he left the lift, he was 2:48:44.680 --> 2:48:49.480 caught and detained. So we learned quite a lot in 2:48:49.640 --> 2:48:52.320 this and it's just been interesting to follow. First of all, 2:48:52.400 --> 2:48:55.480 we see that several of the people who were taking 2:48:55.600 --> 2:48:59.200 part in the apprehension were reassigned FBI agents. This is 2:48:59.320 --> 2:49:05.280 increasingly right, like all branches of the federal law enforcement 2:49:05.600 --> 2:49:10.240 have had some of their capacity redirected to doing this, right, 2:49:10.320 --> 2:49:14.359 to doing like this. This guy, I believe had misdemeanors 2:49:15.480 --> 2:49:19.400 the agents for using signal to communicate. They had a 2:49:19.440 --> 2:49:25.360 group chat called frozen water obviously Jesus Christ. Yeah, really funny. 2:49:25.879 --> 2:49:29.240 The FBI agent conceded in crust examination that's not a 2:49:29.320 --> 2:49:33.600 NAP approved by the FBI, but according to one the 2:49:33.720 --> 2:49:36.880 DHS apparently does approve it, according to a CBP agent 2:49:36.879 --> 2:49:40.800 who is crossic damon there, which obviously creates an issue 2:49:40.840 --> 2:49:44.040 for the retention of records. Right biggut signal. If you're 2:49:44.040 --> 2:49:46.400 not familiar auto deletes things after a period of time 2:49:46.480 --> 2:49:50.200 that users can configure. It also appears that when one 2:49:50.240 --> 2:49:53.600 of these DHS agents entered the courthouse, court security officers 2:49:53.640 --> 2:49:57.200 told him that he needed an escort, but then he 2:49:57.280 --> 2:50:01.040 appears to have proceeded without one. Text to colleagues, as 2:50:01.120 --> 2:50:04.720 DHS employees said, quote, this is gonna be a pain 2:50:04.840 --> 2:50:11.560 in the dick. H So that's that. Yeah, what happens, 2:50:11.640 --> 2:50:14.120 it seems like is Judge Dougan sent them to the 2:50:14.280 --> 2:50:17.039 chief judge because they didn't have a judicial warrant. It's 2:50:17.040 --> 2:50:18.240 had an administrative warrant. 2:50:18.400 --> 2:50:18.520 Right. 2:50:19.360 --> 2:50:24.560 Another judge testified against Judge Dugan, a judge called Judge Severa. 2:50:25.280 --> 2:50:28.800 So Judge Severa was with Judge Dugan when they confronted 2:50:28.840 --> 2:50:33.040 the agents. Judge Jugan wore her judicial robes when confronting them, 2:50:33.080 --> 2:50:35.240 which apparently is not usual. It's not usual to wear 2:50:35.320 --> 2:50:38.560 them out of the courtroom, and Judge Severa seemed to 2:50:38.600 --> 2:50:42.560 disapprove of that, and then she said, quote, Judge Dugan 2:50:43.080 --> 2:50:46.640 could quote have been more diplomatic, And then she said, 2:50:46.840 --> 2:50:51.280 quote judges shouldn't be helping defendants evade arrest. At the 2:50:51.440 --> 2:50:55.920 same time, Judge Dugan's defense lawyer asked her if she 2:50:56.080 --> 2:50:59.800 had warned her sister of the ice presence, which she had, 2:51:00.360 --> 2:51:02.400 and it appears to her sister had a hearing at 2:51:02.440 --> 2:51:05.120 the courthouse the next day, which Judge Severa said she 2:51:05.320 --> 2:51:09.560 was not aware of. So there's like a lot still 2:51:09.600 --> 2:51:11.600 to be unpacked here, right, This is just the first day. 2:51:12.000 --> 2:51:14.119 This could go on path Christmas and into the new year, 2:51:14.320 --> 2:51:17.240 and it probably will. But there's been some pretty good 2:51:17.720 --> 2:51:20.760 reporting on this from a substack called all Rise Media, 2:51:21.320 --> 2:51:23.600 and I will keep checking it on this and we'll 2:51:23.840 --> 2:51:25.920 report it on it again after the new year. 2:51:29.720 --> 2:51:34.440 Hello, this is Garrison Davis reporting from Tokyo. Unfortunately, I 2:51:34.520 --> 2:51:39.039 was unable to attend the regular Executive Disorder Group recording 2:51:39.360 --> 2:51:42.560 due to being halfway around the globe, so I'm recording 2:51:42.879 --> 2:51:47.600 my section solo. This past week saw two devastating mass 2:51:47.640 --> 2:51:51.720 shootings back to back. On Saturday afternoon, a mask shooter 2:51:52.120 --> 2:51:56.080 entered an economics class at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, 2:51:56.360 --> 2:51:59.720 and opened fire with a concealed handgun, killing two people 2:52:00.120 --> 2:52:04.480 injuring nine others, all students. About thirty minutes after the 2:52:04.560 --> 2:52:09.080 shooting started, the university police announced a suspect was in custody. 2:52:09.800 --> 2:52:14.560 Twenty minutes later, they retracted that statement. Then university police 2:52:14.600 --> 2:52:17.840 reported shots fired in another section of campus, which they 2:52:18.040 --> 2:52:22.760 also later retracted. President Trump posted on truth social quote, 2:52:23.120 --> 2:52:25.400 I've been briefed on the shooting that took place at 2:52:25.480 --> 2:52:28.960 Brown University in Rhode Island. The FBI is on the scene. 2:52:29.320 --> 2:52:33.120 The suspect is in custody. God bless the victims and 2:52:33.200 --> 2:52:38.360 the families of the victims. This too was untrue, as 2:52:38.440 --> 2:52:41.800 the university released a statement about an hour later clarifying 2:52:41.840 --> 2:52:44.600 that the shooter was not in custody and that over 2:52:44.760 --> 2:52:47.840 four hundred officers were on the scene to assist in 2:52:47.920 --> 2:52:53.520 the investigation. The next morning, Providence Mayor Brett Smiley announced 2:52:53.560 --> 2:52:56.959 that a new person of interest was detained. The Providence 2:52:57.040 --> 2:52:59.480 police chief told NBC that they were confident that the 2:52:59.520 --> 2:53:04.240 suspect was the shooter. Major news outlets later named this individual, 2:53:04.840 --> 2:53:08.520 though later that evening this quote unquote person of interest 2:53:08.879 --> 2:53:12.040 was released, with the Rhode Island Attorney General saying that 2:53:12.200 --> 2:53:17.320 the evidence quote now points in a different direction. The 2:53:17.400 --> 2:53:23.240 shooter currently remains unidentified and at large. On Sunday night, 2:53:23.480 --> 2:53:27.880 in Sydney, Australia, a father and son Sajid and Navid 2:53:28.040 --> 2:53:32.440 Akram coordinated a targeted attack against Jewish people attending a 2:53:32.560 --> 2:53:37.480 Hanukkah event on Bondi Beach. Fifteen people were killed in 2:53:37.600 --> 2:53:40.520 the shooting. Victims include a ten year old girl and 2:53:40.720 --> 2:53:46.240 a Holocaust survivor. Twenty four victims remain hospitalized. A bystander 2:53:46.400 --> 2:53:50.760 named Ahmed al Ahmed, a son of Syrian refugees, charged 2:53:50.920 --> 2:53:54.800 one of the gunmen and wrestled his gun away. Ahmed 2:53:54.879 --> 2:53:57.920 was later shot multiple times, but survived and has been 2:53:58.040 --> 2:54:02.280 labeled a hero by the Austria Prime Minister. Police say 2:54:02.360 --> 2:54:06.119 that a vehicle used by the gunman contained homemade Islamic 2:54:06.200 --> 2:54:09.760 state flags and improvised explosive devices. The men were not 2:54:10.080 --> 2:54:12.560 part of an official terror cell, though the Prime Minister 2:54:12.640 --> 2:54:16.640 says that they were motivated by Islamic state extremist ideology. 2:54:17.360 --> 2:54:21.000 Counter Terrorism officials believed the shooters received quote unquote military 2:54:21.120 --> 2:54:24.520 style training in the Philippines a month before the attack. 2:54:25.720 --> 2:54:30.680 On Tuesday, self styled online investigators in right wing social 2:54:30.800 --> 2:54:35.680 media content Mills falsely identified the Brown University shooter as 2:54:35.720 --> 2:54:40.720 an LGBTQ Palestinian studying at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies, 2:54:41.240 --> 2:54:45.920 citing gate analysis based on surveillance footage of the unidentified 2:54:46.000 --> 2:54:50.520 suspect released by police. The university removed this Queer Palestinian 2:54:50.520 --> 2:54:54.120 student's online profile in an effort to prevent doxing, though 2:54:54.240 --> 2:54:57.119 this itself was used by the online smear campaign as 2:54:57.240 --> 2:55:01.840 evidence of guilt. Brown University later published this statement quote 2:55:02.320 --> 2:55:04.879 in the aftermath of the shooting, We've seen a harmful 2:55:04.959 --> 2:55:07.960 doxing activity directed towards at least one member of the 2:55:08.040 --> 2:55:11.520 Brown University community. It's important to make clear that targeting 2:55:11.560 --> 2:55:16.080 individuals could do a revocable harm. Accusations, speculation, and conspiracies 2:55:16.120 --> 2:55:18.520 were seeing on social media and in some news reports 2:55:18.520 --> 2:55:21.920 are irresponsible, harmful, and in some cases dangerous for the 2:55:21.959 --> 2:55:23.760 safety of individuals. 2:55:23.280 --> 2:55:24.240 In our community. 2:55:24.760 --> 2:55:27.200 It is not unusual as a safety measure to take 2:55:27.240 --> 2:55:30.080 steps to protect an individual's safety when this kind of 2:55:30.120 --> 2:55:35.039 activity happens, including in regard to their online presence. As 2:55:35.200 --> 2:55:38.600 law enforcement officials stated clearly on Tuesday afternoon, if this 2:55:38.760 --> 2:55:41.880 individual's name had any relevance to the current investigation, they 2:55:41.879 --> 2:55:46.320 would be actively looking for this individual and providing information publicly. 2:55:46.600 --> 2:55:52.080 On a final note, after the holiday break, we will 2:55:52.160 --> 2:55:56.640 be reporting on the indictment against four alleged members of 2:55:57.080 --> 2:56:02.560 the Turtle Island Liberation Front in California regarding a New 2:56:02.680 --> 2:56:04.240 Year's Eve bombing plot. 2:56:15.440 --> 2:56:17.520 We're back and we have some news that's going to 2:56:17.560 --> 2:56:21.160 be really sad for everybody here, and it could happen 2:56:21.240 --> 2:56:23.600 here and just all of you listening, which is friend 2:56:23.680 --> 2:56:26.800 of the pod. Dan Bongino is stepping down from his 2:56:27.040 --> 2:56:29.119 work as Deputy. 2:56:28.760 --> 2:56:30.040 Director of the FBI. 2:56:31.280 --> 2:56:33.440 I think it's been a nice vacation for him, but 2:56:33.640 --> 2:56:38.040 you know, American needs him in his much more important role. 2:56:38.560 --> 2:56:41.240 Whatever podcast he was doing before he got brought in 2:56:41.320 --> 2:56:43.080 to the deputy director of the FBI. 2:56:45.040 --> 2:56:47.520 You know, look, if he was podcasting right now, they 2:56:47.560 --> 2:56:50.000 would have caught the mass shooter at Brown. I think 2:56:50.040 --> 2:56:51.000 we can all agree on that. 2:56:51.280 --> 2:56:52.840 Yeah, he did a put costing his way through it. 2:56:53.280 --> 2:56:54.960 Either that or just him not being at the FBI 2:56:55.080 --> 2:56:57.240 would have made the do their job. 2:57:00.879 --> 2:57:02.680 Look, what we're learning from this is that you can 2:57:02.760 --> 2:57:05.480 never escape the podcasting minds. No matter where else you 2:57:05.600 --> 2:57:07.680 try to go, they will drag you back down. 2:57:08.560 --> 2:57:10.840 Oh look, if you make me director of the FBI, 2:57:11.080 --> 2:57:14.360 I promise to stop podcasting and start being the most 2:57:14.480 --> 2:57:16.039 corrupt director of the FBI. 2:57:16.200 --> 2:57:16.840 We've ever had. 2:57:17.360 --> 2:57:18.800 That's a tough challenge. 2:57:19.040 --> 2:57:22.600 I think, you know, I think I'm I'm in the task, 2:57:24.879 --> 2:57:25.840 prepared to work at it. 2:57:26.360 --> 2:57:28.720 Yeah. So, yeah, that's cool. 2:57:29.080 --> 2:57:31.720 I wanted to talk a little bit about an executive 2:57:31.840 --> 2:57:36.160 order that our beloved President put out very recently. Some 2:57:36.320 --> 2:57:39.879 of you may be aware of this, but on December eleventh, 2:57:40.040 --> 2:57:43.000 twenty I mean this year, twenty twenty five, Trump released 2:57:43.040 --> 2:57:45.520 he had another executive order, this one titled Ensuring a 2:57:45.600 --> 2:57:51.680 National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence. And basically in this 2:57:51.840 --> 2:57:54.120 and Trump stated that like, the reason he's doing this 2:57:54.280 --> 2:57:57.440 is because it's absolutely critical to the US's future that 2:57:57.640 --> 2:57:59.880 we be at the top of the game when it 2:58:00.000 --> 2:58:02.680 comes to AI, that we be global leaders in this 2:58:03.120 --> 2:58:06.400 burgeoning new field. He states in the EO, these efforts 2:58:06.440 --> 2:58:09.040 have already delivered tremendous benefits to the American people and 2:58:09.160 --> 2:58:11.720 led to trillions of dollars of investments across the country. 2:58:12.160 --> 2:58:14.480 Certainly haven't, but we were made in the earliest days 2:58:14.480 --> 2:58:17.160 of the technological revolution and in a race with adversaries 2:58:17.200 --> 2:58:19.840 for supremacy within it. Trump stated in an interview that 2:58:19.879 --> 2:58:22.920 he expects AI to be fifty to sixty percent of 2:58:22.959 --> 2:58:25.880 the US economy in the near future, which is nuts. 2:58:26.080 --> 2:58:27.920 Maybe that's just because everything else will just go to 2:58:28.000 --> 2:58:28.640 complete shit. 2:58:28.840 --> 2:58:29.000 You know. 2:58:30.640 --> 2:58:33.440 The reality is that like AI is not even close 2:58:33.520 --> 2:58:36.160 to being that value in terms of like what the 2:58:36.280 --> 2:58:39.840 economy produces, but nearly all of our growth is related 2:58:39.879 --> 2:58:42.720 and like it is tied right now to data center investments. 2:58:42.760 --> 2:58:46.119 So Trump absolutely needs AI because without it the country 2:58:46.240 --> 2:58:49.000 is very obviously in a recession. Like this is the 2:58:49.080 --> 2:58:52.039 only thing propping up the image of the economy as 2:58:52.120 --> 2:58:54.560 not being in the shitter. Now, what does this EO 2:58:54.959 --> 2:58:58.600 actually do well? The goal of this the statement is 2:58:58.680 --> 2:59:00.160 that it is the policy of the United State is 2:59:00.200 --> 2:59:02.560 to sustain and enhance the United States is global AI 2:59:02.720 --> 2:59:06.400 dominance through a minimally burdened some national policy framework for AI. 2:59:07.000 --> 2:59:10.160 This EO will establish an AI Litigation Task Force within 2:59:10.320 --> 2:59:12.720 thirty days of this order going out. The Attorney General 2:59:12.800 --> 2:59:16.120 is supposed to establish this task force, whose responsibility is 2:59:16.200 --> 2:59:19.920 to challenge state AI laws that are inconsistent with the 2:59:20.080 --> 2:59:22.920 policy set forward above. Right, that we need to be 2:59:23.200 --> 2:59:26.760 globally dominant in AI. Right, So this task force is 2:59:26.760 --> 2:59:28.800 supposed to go out and find state laws that it 2:59:28.879 --> 2:59:31.320 believes are like an onerous burden on the development of 2:59:31.400 --> 2:59:34.480 this technology. Going along with this, within ninety days of 2:59:34.520 --> 2:59:37.280 the order, the Secretary of Commerce is supposed to do 2:59:37.360 --> 2:59:40.880 an evaluation of all state AI laws in order to 2:59:41.400 --> 2:59:44.120 point out which ones this task force should go after. 2:59:44.840 --> 2:59:47.760 And then the stick that this EO establishes is that 2:59:48.400 --> 2:59:51.640 if this task force decides that like a state AI 2:59:51.840 --> 2:59:54.879 law is in violation of our need to be dominant 2:59:54.920 --> 2:59:58.160 in AI, we can restrict state funding to things like 2:59:58.240 --> 3:00:02.080 the broadband Equity Access and Ployment program. Right Basically, they'll 3:00:02.120 --> 3:00:05.720 cut off federal funding for like broadband access in order 3:00:05.840 --> 3:00:10.000 to punish states that try to restrict or in any 3:00:10.080 --> 3:00:13.000 way shape or form govern what people can use what 3:00:13.200 --> 3:00:16.400 companies can use AI for. And the primary thing this 3:00:16.600 --> 3:00:18.360 is all about, I know, we all think about the 3:00:18.400 --> 3:00:20.680 stuff that like most people have more direct experience with, 3:00:20.760 --> 3:00:22.760 which is like all the slop flooding the Internet, the 3:00:22.800 --> 3:00:26.600 disinformation that's continuing to cook the brains of a lot 3:00:26.680 --> 3:00:29.560 of our peers and elders, and just the fact that 3:00:29.720 --> 3:00:32.800 like it's making certain industries full of hardworking people a 3:00:32.879 --> 3:00:35.960 lot harder to exist because companies are just trying to 3:00:36.600 --> 3:00:41.600 replace quality work with absolute like slop trash yeah, But really, 3:00:41.720 --> 3:00:44.520 what this is about, and the primary focus of most 3:00:44.560 --> 3:00:49.120 of these state level laws regulating AI is the housing market. 3:00:49.520 --> 3:00:49.640 Right. 3:00:50.040 --> 3:00:53.000 There's a good article in Politico about this, written by 3:00:53.080 --> 3:00:56.720 Cassandra Dumay, but she notes that per a National Conference 3:00:56.760 --> 3:00:59.160 of State Legislatures analysis in July, there were more than 3:00:59.240 --> 3:01:02.600 forty pennings across the United States related to just AI 3:01:02.800 --> 3:01:06.320 in the housing sector. And most of these bills are 3:01:06.520 --> 3:01:10.960 attempting to stop landlords from using different AI programs to 3:01:11.040 --> 3:01:14.880 coordinate pricing. Basically, there are a couple of different programs, 3:01:14.920 --> 3:01:17.480 the most prominent which is called Real Page, and what 3:01:17.600 --> 3:01:20.960 they do is landlords join these programs and they share 3:01:21.000 --> 3:01:27.000 information on like what their different properties cost, and then 3:01:27.040 --> 3:01:31.439 the AI knows what everybody is charging and can suggest 3:01:32.320 --> 3:01:34.080 that they charge higher prices. 3:01:34.520 --> 3:01:35.360 Right now. 3:01:36.120 --> 3:01:38.040 The way that this is supposed to work is that you, 3:01:38.200 --> 3:01:41.720 as a landlord, look out at what's publicly available about 3:01:41.720 --> 3:01:43.800 the prices of your competitors and look at like what 3:01:44.000 --> 3:01:46.400 your customers are currently willing to bear, and then try 3:01:46.440 --> 3:01:49.480 to set your prices and you know future price increases 3:01:49.520 --> 3:01:52.560 based on that. What Real Page is doing is a 3:01:52.680 --> 3:01:56.240 legal collusion, right, This is price fixing it's just the 3:01:56.480 --> 3:02:00.840 AI is doing the actual active price fixing. The landlords 3:02:00.879 --> 3:02:03.640 are just sharing their data and paying a fee to 3:02:03.760 --> 3:02:06.480 the service. And so a bunch of states have tried 3:02:06.520 --> 3:02:09.680 to stop this because this objectively makes the housing crisis worse. 3:02:09.720 --> 3:02:11.320 I know there's some annoying assholes who come out and 3:02:11.320 --> 3:02:13.320 be like, you shouldn't talk about anything but in increasing 3:02:13.360 --> 3:02:16.840 the supply of housing, and like that that's idiot shit, Yes, 3:02:16.879 --> 3:02:18.280 we need to increase the supply of housing. 3:02:18.720 --> 3:02:20.440 This objectively hurts people. 3:02:20.920 --> 3:02:24.920 These programs subjectively increase the price of print. They do damage. 3:02:25.360 --> 3:02:28.720 We should be mitigating or making it impossible for businesses 3:02:28.840 --> 3:02:31.320 like this to exist. Anyone who disagrees is just being 3:02:31.360 --> 3:02:33.680 a dummy. New York passed a law in October that 3:02:33.760 --> 3:02:36.720 banned the use of AI algorithms to allow landlords to 3:02:36.920 --> 3:02:39.960 do price fixing. There's a similar bill of the Massachusetts 3:02:40.040 --> 3:02:43.240 legislation that's making its way forward right now. And this 3:02:43.520 --> 3:02:46.880 is fundamentally what a lot of the opposition to like 3:02:47.080 --> 3:02:51.800 state level AI regulation is about. Is that the landlords 3:02:52.160 --> 3:02:54.840 basically think that this is a great way to make 3:02:54.840 --> 3:02:57.040 a shitload of money, and tech companies like and we 3:02:57.120 --> 3:02:58.840 can continue. We got to make a shitload of money 3:02:59.080 --> 3:03:02.480 selling them the tool to do this, and states are 3:03:02.920 --> 3:03:06.120 trying to push back on this, and like that's fundamentally 3:03:06.200 --> 3:03:09.039 what a lot of the impetus buying this executive order 3:03:09.240 --> 3:03:12.680 is is an attempt to stop people from making this 3:03:12.840 --> 3:03:16.120 even more harmful. There is some like in this that 3:03:16.200 --> 3:03:19.760 political article they quote from Kevin Donnelly, who's the executive 3:03:19.800 --> 3:03:23.040 director of the Real Estate Technology and Transformation Center, and 3:03:23.160 --> 3:03:26.480 he talks about like, well, actually, we're currently using AI 3:03:26.680 --> 3:03:30.120 to identify buildable lots and promote sustainable constructions so that 3:03:30.280 --> 3:03:32.560 we can actually like reduce some of the cost of housing. 3:03:32.879 --> 3:03:35.440 And all of these bills, could you know, undermine our 3:03:35.520 --> 3:03:39.360 ability to impress people's Like yeah, it's just fucking go 3:03:39.640 --> 3:03:43.000 like literally jump off a bridge, man, Fuck you. Yeah, no, 3:03:43.480 --> 3:03:45.280 we know that's not how it works. We have data 3:03:45.400 --> 3:03:47.840 on this, yo, This isn't theoretical. 3:03:48.200 --> 3:03:48.400 Yeah. 3:03:48.720 --> 3:03:52.800 Yeah. Anytime a landlord, anytime a landlord says anything or 3:03:52.879 --> 3:03:56.640 to real estate developer that says anything that suggests the 3:03:56.720 --> 3:03:58.760 thing they want to do is lower rent, they are 3:03:58.920 --> 3:04:02.560 lying and tell because they don't fucking lower rents unless 3:04:02.800 --> 3:04:04.960 like a global pandemic happens. 3:04:05.240 --> 3:04:07.880 Yeah, like that's a how any of this works, and 3:04:09.080 --> 3:04:12.600 this has been controversial. Trump, before putting out the EO, 3:04:12.959 --> 3:04:16.280 tried to encourage the passage of a bill through Congress 3:04:16.320 --> 3:04:18.199 that would have done the same thing as the EO 3:04:18.800 --> 3:04:20.600 right and would have actually had like more force of 3:04:20.680 --> 3:04:22.960 law behind it, basically making it illegal for states to 3:04:23.040 --> 3:04:27.120 have their own laws regulating AI. That didn't pass because 3:04:27.240 --> 3:04:30.560 even Republicans don't really like that idea. For one thing, 3:04:31.000 --> 3:04:33.920 states rights is still supposed to be a pretty big. 3:04:33.840 --> 3:04:34.720 Part of the party. 3:04:35.720 --> 3:04:37.600 But for another thing, there's like a lot of things 3:04:37.680 --> 3:04:40.800 that conservatives are really unhappy with in terms of AI. 3:04:40.959 --> 3:04:44.840 For example, it keeps exposing children to pornography and other 3:04:45.040 --> 3:04:46.800 things that kids shouldn't be exposed to. 3:04:47.560 --> 3:04:48.560 For another thing, there's a lot of. 3:04:48.560 --> 3:04:51.200 American jobs that are going to be lost as a 3:04:51.240 --> 3:04:54.560 result of or potentially could be lost as a result 3:04:54.680 --> 3:04:58.120 of the AI slop automation of a bunch of industries. 3:04:58.200 --> 3:05:01.640 And so there's there's even significant amount of resistance among 3:05:01.720 --> 3:05:04.320 Republicans this, which is why the bill didn't pass right, 3:05:04.800 --> 3:05:08.240 and Trump, when he announced this EO basically sat down 3:05:08.360 --> 3:05:10.720 with like a chunk of the conservatives who are more 3:05:10.760 --> 3:05:14.360 critical of this and I think basically bullied them into 3:05:14.480 --> 3:05:17.520 getting on board and saying no, he promised us this 3:05:17.680 --> 3:05:22.320 won't restrict state levels to like improve safety for children. Right, 3:05:23.120 --> 3:05:26.840 there's absolutely like no guarantee of that, Like you just 3:05:26.959 --> 3:05:30.160 have David Sacks. It was Trump's top AI advisor saying no, no, 3:05:30.680 --> 3:05:32.400 none of this is about trying to stop state laws 3:05:32.440 --> 3:05:34.920 to make kids savor. It's just trying to stop state 3:05:35.000 --> 3:05:38.320 laws that will make rent less expensive. Yeah, there's Marjorie 3:05:38.320 --> 3:05:41.000 Taylor Green's come out against this. She's basically said that, 3:05:41.240 --> 3:05:43.960 you know, this is a violation of states. Right, it's bullshit. 3:05:44.000 --> 3:05:46.760 Steve Bannon is in the same place. He had a 3:05:46.800 --> 3:05:48.520 good quote I found in an article by The Hill. 3:05:48.879 --> 3:05:51.800 After two humiliating face plants on a must pass legislation, 3:05:52.000 --> 3:05:55.039 Now we attempt an entirely unenforceable EO tech bros doing 3:05:55.120 --> 3:05:57.520 utmost to turn Potus magabase away from him while they 3:05:57.560 --> 3:06:02.040 line their pockets, which is essentially accurate. Yeah, he's wrong, 3:06:04.160 --> 3:06:07.640 ain't wrong about that. So all this is like pretty 3:06:07.680 --> 3:06:11.480 annoying and fucked up. We'll see what actually becomes of this. 3:06:11.760 --> 3:06:14.560 I tend to agree with Bannon that it's pretty much unenforceable, 3:06:15.040 --> 3:06:17.720 like the lawsuit, the court battles that will come from 3:06:17.760 --> 3:06:21.280 this is just going to be expensive and time consuming. 3:06:21.360 --> 3:06:24.080 But I actually don't think this is going to work 3:06:24.120 --> 3:06:26.600 the way they want. This is this is Trump making 3:06:26.640 --> 3:06:28.400 it very clear that he has bought and paid for 3:06:28.560 --> 3:06:31.040 by the tax end, that he understands that he is 3:06:31.160 --> 3:06:33.680 hanging on by a thread in terms of popularity. One 3:06:33.720 --> 3:06:36.200 of the only things stopping it from getting stopping the 3:06:36.240 --> 3:06:39.880 situation from getting worse is that AI spending on data 3:06:39.959 --> 3:06:42.760 centers and ship is propping up the image of the economy. Right, 3:06:42.840 --> 3:06:44.039 that's what this is all about. 3:06:44.440 --> 3:06:46.280 Yeah, and this and this is something where he can 3:06:46.280 --> 3:06:49.120 simultaneously shore up is tech based and shore up his 3:06:49.240 --> 3:06:49.840 landlord base. 3:06:50.080 --> 3:06:53.720 Yeah, which are like, yeah, it's great, two kinds of 3:06:53.800 --> 3:06:55.160 guys to like Donald Trump. 3:06:55.680 --> 3:06:59.240 Yeah, I guess there's an end here where I could. 3:06:59.440 --> 3:07:01.600 I wanted to make a note about something also related 3:07:01.640 --> 3:07:04.400 to AI, which is that there's an incredibly stupid article 3:07:04.600 --> 3:07:08.440 in Vox that came out this week. Case like literally 3:07:08.480 --> 3:07:11.040 the title is like, America, you've made it very clear 3:07:11.120 --> 3:07:13.440 that you hate AI, But what if it's the only 3:07:13.520 --> 3:07:15.680 way to restart the idea machine? 3:07:16.360 --> 3:07:16.520 Right? 3:07:17.120 --> 3:07:20.520 And this dipshit. Columnist's argument is that. 3:07:20.720 --> 3:07:25.000 Like, well, we're we're not running out of ideas and AI, 3:07:25.280 --> 3:07:27.600 like human beings can't come up with ideas enough to 3:07:27.640 --> 3:07:30.120 create growth at the level that the economy needs to 3:07:30.200 --> 3:07:34.640 be growing, and in order to take humanity into the future, really, 3:07:34.760 --> 3:07:37.199 AI is the only way to generate. 3:07:36.920 --> 3:07:37.960 More new ideas. 3:07:38.520 --> 3:07:39.840 And I wanted to look at, like, what is this 3:07:40.000 --> 3:07:43.440 based off of? And I think I figured out what, 3:07:43.840 --> 3:07:46.960 like the fundamental source of all of this shit is, 3:07:47.560 --> 3:07:51.600 which is Back in twenty seventeen, there was a research 3:07:51.720 --> 3:07:55.120 paper put out by the National Bureau of Economic Research 3:07:55.160 --> 3:07:59.000 by Nicholas Bloom, Charles Jones, John Van Reenan, and Michael Webb. 3:07:59.600 --> 3:08:03.040 The kind summary of that article reads as follows. In 3:08:03.120 --> 3:08:05.960 many growth models, economic growth arises from people creating ideas, 3:08:06.040 --> 3:08:07.720 and then the long run growth rate is the product 3:08:07.720 --> 3:08:09.800 of two terms, the effective number of researchers and their 3:08:09.840 --> 3:08:12.560 research productivity. We present a wide range of evidence for 3:08:12.640 --> 3:08:15.160 various industries, products, and firms showing that research effort is 3:08:15.240 --> 3:08:19.760 rising substantially while research productivity is declining sharply. Right, So basically, 3:08:20.040 --> 3:08:22.240 we're we have more people doing research and we're spending 3:08:22.240 --> 3:08:25.680 more money on research, but that research is translating into 3:08:26.000 --> 3:08:29.600 economic gains at a lower level than ever before, right 3:08:30.280 --> 3:08:31.680 to the point where we're not going to be able 3:08:31.680 --> 3:08:33.840 to continue to make economic gains like we used to 3:08:33.920 --> 3:08:37.840 be unless something changes. And if you're kind of paying 3:08:37.879 --> 3:08:40.320 attention to this, you might notice that that study, which 3:08:40.360 --> 3:08:42.400 is the underpinning of that Vox article and all of 3:08:42.400 --> 3:08:44.920 these claims that we need AI for ideas, really it 3:08:44.959 --> 3:08:47.240 is not actually making an argument that people aren't having 3:08:47.320 --> 3:08:50.680 more ideas. It's making an argument that it is harder 3:08:50.760 --> 3:08:55.360 to profit from ideas than it used to be right now. 3:08:55.720 --> 3:08:58.720 That is fundamentally different from people not having ideas. For 3:08:58.800 --> 3:09:02.000 one thing, it's reduce using an idea to something that 3:09:02.200 --> 3:09:05.720 delivers a return for venture capitalists. Yeah right, that's all 3:09:05.800 --> 3:09:08.400 an idea is in. This is something that makes money, 3:09:08.720 --> 3:09:11.440 and a lot of great ideas like the post office, 3:09:11.800 --> 3:09:14.880 don't generate a direct profit. And obviously it's a net 3:09:14.920 --> 3:09:16.920 benefit to the economy that we have a post office, 3:09:16.920 --> 3:09:19.520 but the post office runs at a loss, right, which 3:09:19.560 --> 3:09:22.600 is why you have state funding for certain things, because 3:09:22.600 --> 3:09:24.879 they're just not going to be the kind of ideas 3:09:24.959 --> 3:09:27.760 that like a bunch of Silicon Valley investors want to 3:09:27.800 --> 3:09:31.120 throw money into right now. The other part of the 3:09:31.240 --> 3:09:33.880 issue here is just a very practical one, which is 3:09:33.920 --> 3:09:36.560 that a lot of the ideas, the great ideas last 3:09:36.600 --> 3:09:40.520 century that were like most correlated with massive gains and productivity, 3:09:40.600 --> 3:09:43.600 stuff like the introduction of vaccines on a wide scale, 3:09:43.840 --> 3:09:44.959 indoor plumbing. 3:09:44.720 --> 3:09:47.520 And electricity on a wide scale phones. 3:09:48.320 --> 3:09:51.800 There's not ideas like that that are like that big 3:09:51.920 --> 3:09:55.800 and that much of a game changer left, right, the 3:09:55.879 --> 3:09:57.840 low hanging fruit has been It's the. 3:09:57.879 --> 3:10:01.160 Low hanging fruit has been picked. There's not another the 3:10:01.320 --> 3:10:04.160 telephone waiting out there. We already did that. It was 3:10:04.200 --> 3:10:07.360 the smartphone. There's not another indoor plumbing, right. There's not 3:10:07.440 --> 3:10:09.480 something that's going to be as much of a sea 3:10:09.600 --> 3:10:11.840 change for the economy and for the quality of human 3:10:11.879 --> 3:10:14.440 life as those ideas, because those were really big things. 3:10:15.600 --> 3:10:17.440 Yeah, Like like maybe maybe you could put us something 3:10:17.560 --> 3:10:20.240 like actually cleaning the air that we breathe. 3:10:20.240 --> 3:10:23.760 Yes, but again that's not profitable in a direct way, no, right, 3:10:23.840 --> 3:10:26.280 like you, Yeah, that's an idea that would have a 3:10:26.879 --> 3:10:29.920 change that big, but there's not a profit incentive for it. 3:10:30.080 --> 3:10:30.160 Right. 3:10:30.280 --> 3:10:31.520 We privatize the air of. 3:10:31.640 --> 3:10:38.039 It, right, fucking air? Yeah, and there's a lot I again, 3:10:38.080 --> 3:10:41.240 I find this, this whole discussion pattern, like it's an 3:10:41.280 --> 3:10:43.440 example of the fact that like people like this fucking 3:10:43.520 --> 3:10:45.640 vox article who I don't feel like deserves to be 3:10:45.760 --> 3:10:48.600 named to this, have been using chat GPT so much 3:10:48.640 --> 3:10:51.120 that they're no longer thinking. They're not really sentient in 3:10:51.200 --> 3:10:54.039 a meaningful way. Right, Like when you when you write 3:10:54.120 --> 3:10:57.000 something like that, it's because your brain has been completely 3:10:57.120 --> 3:11:00.640 fucking cooked. I did find a good article, ironically, from 3:11:00.680 --> 3:11:05.320 twenty seventeen from Vox EU that is titled Ideas aren't 3:11:05.360 --> 3:11:07.680 running out, but they are getting more expensive to find, 3:11:07.760 --> 3:11:09.240 which is making a lot of the claims that like 3:11:09.360 --> 3:11:11.600 I've made, which is that or that I've been bringing 3:11:11.680 --> 3:11:13.600 up so far in this which is that it's not 3:11:13.720 --> 3:11:15.959 that there's a lack of ideas, that it costs more 3:11:16.040 --> 3:11:19.359 money to do stuff like that now, like the costs 3:11:20.000 --> 3:11:23.400 because everything's so much more complex. The big ideas we're 3:11:23.440 --> 3:11:25.960 looking at, artist simple is indoor plumbing. They require a 3:11:26.000 --> 3:11:28.320 lot more computing power, they require a lot more people 3:11:28.440 --> 3:11:31.840 working on them, right, Like we've plucked the low hanging fruit, 3:11:32.320 --> 3:11:34.880 and it ends with a paragraph I find kind of 3:11:34.920 --> 3:11:37.560 valuable here, returning to the oil metaphor, we are digging 3:11:37.600 --> 3:11:39.600 deeper into a trickier part of the rock. Of course, 3:11:39.640 --> 3:11:41.560 we could be wrong, and humanity may have just been 3:11:41.600 --> 3:11:44.280 shipping away to particularly hard point that will soon give way, 3:11:44.560 --> 3:11:46.880 creating decades of cheap ideas. This is the hope of 3:11:46.879 --> 3:11:50.000 those who emphasize the revolutionary power of artificial intelligence and 3:11:50.080 --> 3:11:53.360 the singularity and accumulation of technology that triggers runaway growth 3:11:53.360 --> 3:11:55.480 at some point in the future. Although we all enjoy 3:11:55.560 --> 3:11:58.080 science fiction, history books are usually a safer guide to 3:11:58.120 --> 3:12:00.840 the future. In this case, history suggests that large increases 3:12:00.879 --> 3:12:03.800 in research effort are need to offset its declining productivity. 3:12:04.200 --> 3:12:05.760 And again, if you want to have. 3:12:05.920 --> 3:12:08.200 The big ideas and the star Trek feature that all 3:12:08.200 --> 3:12:10.920 of these billionaires like Elon Musk pretend they want, what 3:12:11.080 --> 3:12:12.760 you actually have to do is be willing to put 3:12:12.840 --> 3:12:16.920 a lot of money into research and development without any 3:12:17.080 --> 3:12:20.400 promise of a profit. Your motivation can't be well, now, 3:12:20.440 --> 3:12:22.000 we have to get a two hundred percent rate of 3:12:22.080 --> 3:12:24.760 return in our investments. Right, it has to be well. 3:12:24.800 --> 3:12:28.920 This would improve people's lives and make life more sustainable. Right, 3:12:29.360 --> 3:12:31.760 like finding solutions to a lot of problems with climate 3:12:31.800 --> 3:12:34.480 and cleaning the air, like dealing with like lack of 3:12:34.560 --> 3:12:37.400 access to clean water, lack of access to basic basic 3:12:37.520 --> 3:12:40.560 medical care. These are not things where doing them means 3:12:40.600 --> 3:12:43.600 that your company gets an immediate profit and evaluation in 3:12:43.640 --> 3:12:45.920 the tens of billions of dollars. Right, That's just not 3:12:46.080 --> 3:12:50.320 the way providing life saving aid to people works. But 3:12:50.760 --> 3:12:54.880 the net value to the global economy would be massive if, 3:12:54.959 --> 3:12:58.120 for example, kids weren't going without food and access to 3:12:58.200 --> 3:13:01.640 clean water, and had better access to education, and thus 3:13:01.680 --> 3:13:05.120 we're able to go into fields where they become researchers 3:13:05.200 --> 3:13:08.960 and generate ideas that eventually turn into profit. Right, Like, 3:13:09.520 --> 3:13:12.760 these AI fucks aren't talking about ideas, They're talking about 3:13:12.840 --> 3:13:15.480 cracking the human mind, Right, that's what they want to do. 3:13:15.920 --> 3:13:18.360 It's a good way to Yeah, yeah, I think that 3:13:18.600 --> 3:13:20.960 there's another thing we're saying here too. On there's a different, 3:13:21.040 --> 3:13:25.840 greater argument about this where he makes an argument that 3:13:25.879 --> 3:13:28.840 I think is also very compelling that part of the 3:13:29.440 --> 3:13:33.080 decline in the rate of technological change has been the 3:13:33.240 --> 3:13:35.320 extent to which everyone who was trying to do this 3:13:35.400 --> 3:13:38.000 stuff is just increasingly dealing with more and more layers 3:13:38.040 --> 3:13:40.400 of bureaucracy instead of actually doing the thing they're trying 3:13:40.440 --> 3:13:42.560 to do. And then you know, this is a huge 3:13:42.560 --> 3:13:44.560 problem in academia where it's like, okay, so you have 3:13:44.760 --> 3:13:47.440 you know, you're teaching in academia, but you're also spending 3:13:47.600 --> 3:13:51.280 like a quarter of your time trying to get another job. 3:13:51.680 --> 3:13:54.680 You're spending another quarter of your time dealing with all 3:13:54.760 --> 3:13:58.760 of the unhinged whatever, like accounting bullshit that your fucking 3:13:58.800 --> 3:14:01.960 supervisors have, like like like university management has like put 3:14:02.080 --> 3:14:03.520 upon you. And this is and this is something that's 3:14:03.520 --> 3:14:06.200 also true for government researchers, where there's just like this, 3:14:06.440 --> 3:14:08.360 you know, there's been this incredible increase in sort of 3:14:08.360 --> 3:14:10.440 the amount of bureaucracy they have to jump through it 3:14:11.040 --> 3:14:13.680 like largely because of the right and because of all 3:14:13.720 --> 3:14:16.039 of the like weird shit they do, where like they 3:14:16.080 --> 3:14:18.040 hate government fundings, so like ah, everyone has to like 3:14:18.640 --> 3:14:21.840 justify their funding literally every ten seconds. And I think, 3:14:21.840 --> 3:14:23.720 I think, like that's that's one of the other angles 3:14:23.760 --> 3:14:25.240 of this, and it's something that's only gonna get worse 3:14:25.280 --> 3:14:28.120 because this administration is just fucking annihilating the entire basis 3:14:28.160 --> 3:14:31.320 of American science. Yeah, they're killing it. The damage that 3:14:31.360 --> 3:14:33.320 they've done to the pipeline of people that will produce 3:14:33.360 --> 3:14:36.320 these researchers, right with with ways that all suddenly like 3:14:36.360 --> 3:14:39.200 American science post docs. Just there's no money for it. 3:14:39.280 --> 3:14:42.000 There's no money for grad students. They're killing all of 3:14:42.080 --> 3:14:45.160 the pathways that would do this, and then they're going, oh, 3:14:45.240 --> 3:14:49.520 the only solution is the fucking tech boondoggle we've created 3:14:49.600 --> 3:14:53.040 to the problems that we created by just annihilating the 3:14:53.120 --> 3:14:54.119 capacity to do science. 3:14:54.879 --> 3:14:55.160 M h. 3:14:55.560 --> 3:14:55.959 It sucks. 3:14:56.000 --> 3:14:56.440 I hate them. 3:14:57.760 --> 3:14:59.240 If you want to email list you can do so. 3:14:59.520 --> 3:15:02.760 It is cool zwn tips at proton dot me. If 3:15:02.800 --> 3:15:04.240 you want it to be encrypted, you should use a 3:15:04.280 --> 3:15:06.360 proton matadress as well. They're free. 3:15:07.920 --> 3:15:14.840 All right, guys, I think that's that's the podcast listeners, haters, lovers. 3:15:15.080 --> 3:15:16.760 It's our last e D of the year. 3:15:17.879 --> 3:15:18.920 It's our last D. 3:15:19.080 --> 3:15:19.480 Of the year. 3:15:19.720 --> 3:15:21.440 Well, I don't know. We'll see if those pills come in, 3:15:21.600 --> 3:15:25.640 but yeah, but I hate you. 3:15:26.240 --> 3:15:30.280 Happy holidays, Holidays, everybody, put a trans girl on your couch. 3:15:30.600 --> 3:15:33.320 Put a trans girl on your couch, love it? 3:15:33.680 --> 3:15:35.480 Or a bed I mean yeah, if you. 3:15:38.520 --> 3:15:42.720 Yeahble mattress one of those like chairs that leans back 3:15:42.800 --> 3:15:45.880 to where it's like basically flat. Yeah, not a lazy 3:15:46.480 --> 3:15:49.280 in sure, a lot of options in neutral lazy each year. 3:15:49.520 --> 3:15:51.840 Yeah. An inflatable mattress why not? Yeah? 3:15:51.840 --> 3:15:52.120 Why not? 3:15:52.920 --> 3:15:57.039 Water bed? A water bed is strong enough. Because they 3:15:57.080 --> 3:16:01.240 are heavy, you're not allowed. 3:16:01.000 --> 3:16:01.440 To have them. 3:16:01.480 --> 3:16:05.240 But yes, Anyways, we reported the news. 3:16:05.560 --> 3:16:07.360 Arguably, we reported the news. 3:16:12.320 --> 3:16:15.440 Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:16:15.560 --> 3:16:17.440 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:16:18.200 --> 3:16:20.680 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:16:20.879 --> 3:16:23.920 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:16:24.040 --> 3:16:27.520 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:16:27.680 --> 3:16:29.599 Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 3:16:29.360 --> 3:16:30.480 You listen to podcasts. 3:16:31.000 --> 3:16:32.880 You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, 3:16:32.959 --> 3:16:35.879 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.