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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: never told your protection of by High Radio. So it's Samantha.

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Speaker 1: You have talked a lot about monsters and shipping and

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Speaker 1: all of these things, which is related to what episode

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Speaker 1: of Bringing Back Today, But I'm not sure I've ever

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Speaker 1: asked you this. You have a favorite horror movie villain? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know you've never asked me that, and now we

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Speaker 1: have to think about it because villain wise, m h yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you got your classics. We've been talking a

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Speaker 1: lot about, Like you know, I said, I really like

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Speaker 1: vampires like that. That's stuffing that I really do like.

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Speaker 1: But honestly, I love a good demon possession. I feel

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Speaker 1: like those are the ones that can get you the best.

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Speaker 1: At time, will say, and I'm so sad it's a

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Speaker 1: Roman Polinski film because I don't like him and I

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Speaker 1: can no longer watch this. But Rosemary's Baby, the antagonist

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Speaker 1: was a whole like to me, so it always but

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Speaker 1: what it was for being a horror movie to me,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the ones that still stand today

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Speaker 1: as a horror movie, you know, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: the old ones are really cheesy and you're like what

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Speaker 1: is that, right? Or you know, uh, even Jaws to

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Speaker 1: a certain degree, Like you're like, okay, but I feel

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Speaker 1: like things like that when it comes to an idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what gets me more than anything else, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's upsetting how much that movie still holds up for sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm somebody who's oddly like very competitive about things that

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Speaker 1: don't matter. Like I don't really care, but like if

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Speaker 1: a movie comes out and it's like Freddie versus Jason,

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Speaker 1: I have an immediate like, oh, this one should win.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know why that is, but so I

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Speaker 1: have like rankings of you know, you got your hell

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Speaker 1: Raiser and your candy Man and Freddie and Jason and

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Speaker 1: Michael and all of those people. One of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about this is I was talking about

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Speaker 1: with some friends of ours this past weekend. It's getting

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Speaker 1: dead by daylight I think that's what it's called. But

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Speaker 1: you get to pick like a popular villain and everyone

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Speaker 1: else is trying to survive, and you're, you know, Michael

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Speaker 1: trying to kill them and you have to survive till

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Speaker 1: daylight or kill them all to win, depending on who

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Speaker 1: you are. I really like Samaraw from the Ring, the

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Speaker 1: Original Ring. I really like Pyramid and from Silent Hill

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Speaker 1: the game, but you know it's also represented in the movie.

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Speaker 1: You much more messed up. Perhaps well I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's messed up all around. That's not my next watch list.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm interested to hear what you think. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. I mean there's really if you can do

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Speaker 1: a good villain in a Halloween movie, even if it's

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Speaker 1: kind of cheesier, kind of fun funny like that can

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Speaker 1: that really is what makes said a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: you've got to have that villain that either really scares

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Speaker 1: you and or is somehow like you can see they're

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Speaker 1: they're not maybe their side of it, but kind of

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Speaker 1: like their origins to where you kind of understand. Or

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Speaker 1: they might not even have one at all and that's

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Speaker 1: even terrifying. Or they're funny. Are there something about them

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Speaker 1: that's kind of like pretty with his puns or whatever. Ye, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I've thought about this a lot. Link But yes, all

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Speaker 1: of that being said, you wanted to bring back this

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Speaker 1: episode about women and their their love of monsters, so

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Speaker 1: please enjoy. Hey this is Annie and I'm Samantha and

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Speaker 1: welcome to stuff and I'll never told your protection of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio's house stuff works. Okay, all right, here

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Speaker 1: we go today. We are finally tackling a topic I

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Speaker 1: have wanted to talk about for a long time. I

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Speaker 1: believe in the first ever episode that I was on

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Speaker 1: that wasn't kind of an intro episode, I mentioned that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this, right. I think you

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Speaker 1: told me that pretty quickly as one of your ideas

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Speaker 1: when we were discussing the future a sementy and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I can contribute to this, but

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Speaker 1: I will be there to listen. Perfect, Yes, And I've

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this, like just not even on podcasts,

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Speaker 1: but just a woman about town, a woman in southtown,

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Speaker 1: even else, I'm a woman about town since Twilight was

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Speaker 1: at its cheek because I I was just so kind

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Speaker 1: of befuddled and intrigued about what was happening. So did

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Speaker 1: you watch any of the Twilight? I watched the first one.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not here to make fun of what anyone enjoys. Um,

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't right. I went in blind and I

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Speaker 1: laughed at a part I'm not sure I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to laugh at. This movie was kind of laughing. It

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Speaker 1: was the first movie and this young girl behind me

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Speaker 1: threatened to cut me in an alleyway, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about this one day. I'll have

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Speaker 1: a podcast of my own and I can I can

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Speaker 1: delve into your So I was in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the Twilight frenzy as well, and I was much older

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Speaker 1: than the majority of the Twilight people who Twilight fans.

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Speaker 1: I think the fandom um and I will say it

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Speaker 1: was really enjoyable, and I did like it because it

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Speaker 1: was an easy read and it was really like mind

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Speaker 1: numbing in the sense of like you don't have to

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Speaker 1: think too hard into it. And as any other thing,

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Speaker 1: we talked about fan girling, which is sexist in a comment,

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Speaker 1: but essentially um the idea that you get really obsessive

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Speaker 1: with the character and or an idea. And this is

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Speaker 1: kind of that world of that fantasy world which also

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Speaker 1: translated into Fifts of Gray. Yes, Twilight, right, but it

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Speaker 1: brought that same kind of satuation, brought that for older

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Speaker 1: women and older generations that would have been the for Twilight.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, And I that's why I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be judgmental of that, because I think because I

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Speaker 1: don't like romance. That's why I didn't like Twilight. But

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Speaker 1: if I fan girl about so much stuff, I was

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Speaker 1: believe me, Harry Potter, I went and it's still still

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Speaker 1: um right, And I think for me, I'm not necessarily

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Speaker 1: all about romance, but as a person who wished to

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Speaker 1: have romance or wish for the perfect idea of romance. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I'm cynical in real life oddly enough that I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this would be awesome. Yeah, I'll take your word for it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying we will be returning to Twilight. I

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Speaker 1: love how we always bury the lead of what the

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Speaker 1: episode is about. So we're talking about no, no, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: I love it. We're talking about women and monsters and

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Speaker 1: kind of this this trope and this attraction of it

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Speaker 1: seems and a lot of our media women and monsters, right,

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Speaker 1: vampires being one of those. And before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: trigger warnings were I mean, this is just going to

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Speaker 1: kind of come up. We're not going to delve into it,

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Speaker 1: but lighthearted. Yeah, esque, there is one thing that I

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Speaker 1: will maybe say it's not but it's it's generally we're

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Speaker 1: just kind of mentioning these things, rape, sexual assault, and

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Speaker 1: general warning about porn and fetishes, and um, we do

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Speaker 1: want to be careful to not judge any consensual, safe,

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Speaker 1: healthy things that people are into, right and again, and

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking more and more about this with like

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Speaker 1: the b d s M and bondage. But everything has

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Speaker 1: to do with consent and communication in being an adult

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Speaker 1: who can consent legally. Yes, um, so let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Even if there's no sexual attraction. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to deny after looking at our pop culture that

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Speaker 1: we don't find monsters, especially the more human esque humanoid

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Speaker 1: ones appealing. People writing about the popularity of monsters point

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Speaker 1: to their relatability. They're different than us humans here, but

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Speaker 1: we can see ourselves in them, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: us can connect with that feeling of being outcasts. Right,

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Speaker 1: you want to be the underdog that comes out on top. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we love an underdog. And like I've said many times,

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Speaker 1: I think horror movies are great mirrors to reflect back

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Speaker 1: what we as a society have hang ups around. Um

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Speaker 1: and something similar can be said around monsters. They embody

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Speaker 1: both fear and desirability, and fear around desirability and really

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Speaker 1: doesn't that sound like we're describing attitudes around sex. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I will say for me, and it's not exactly a

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Speaker 1: monster monster, but like Dexter uh huh. His character was

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Speaker 1: intriguing to me because it had a bit of my

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Speaker 1: biggest fear of who I could be. Oh really right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: getting up? Are you a little nervous? Now? Are you

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Speaker 1: a little nervous? Because he reflects to a lot about

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Speaker 1: trauma and has But at the same time, Kada is

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Speaker 1: that guy that as the monster you want to make

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Speaker 1: better somehow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really interesting dichotomy. I

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Speaker 1: was trying to explain to a friend after perhaps one

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Speaker 1: too many tea glasses of wine at five am. Um, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is after we karaokee. This is why I can't

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Speaker 1: hang with you past like am we had to wait

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Speaker 1: for our pizza to um. And I was just explaining

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Speaker 1: to her she does this thing where she becomes contrary

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Speaker 1: when she's drunk. Um, And she was picking a fight

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Speaker 1: with me, but she was like, I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: you like the Winner Soldier so much because his hair

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Speaker 1: parts so weird. And I'm like, it has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with looks. It's all about the trauma. He represents right,

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Speaker 1: and that's very true. Anyway, we're getting away from the point.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. No, no, there's so many examples of this,

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Speaker 1: so many, Um, Beauty and the Beast, Dracula, Twilight, Buffy

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Speaker 1: the Vampire Slayer, Vampire Diaries, True Blood. Although there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of attraction going on in True Blood, they have

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Speaker 1: all the monsters. In True Blood you have from like

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Speaker 1: Werewolves two which is to vampires too, Ferries. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess that's not really a monster is actually they turned

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Speaker 1: out to be monsters in True True Blood? Oh dear,

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Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense. I included. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to include that because they think in True Blood it's

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Speaker 1: just generally a lot of attraction desirability, but there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of monsters, and they're all the whole like

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Speaker 1: idea of saving that one, Like what is that innocent character? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's kind of the innocent virgin that they're trying to

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Speaker 1: take care of. All of them are fighting over her,

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Speaker 1: one pure, very white, very blonde girl with all the

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Speaker 1: monsters around her, and how she attracts those people. That's

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Speaker 1: part of our sexuality as well. To me, it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: a part of this for sure. Um, Shape of Water

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Speaker 1: is a big recent one Venom, which apparently caused a

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Speaker 1: lot of excitement for some folks. I can't remember it's called.

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Speaker 1: There's a name for it, but because I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: Tom Hardy, right, yeah, in the story, I've never seen

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Speaker 1: this movie, but double Hardys. Oh, I've seen it in

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Speaker 1: an embarrassing amount of times because of my parody that

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Speaker 1: I'm making. Yes, it's all for oh well you will

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Speaker 1: be so good. Um. And it's slightly different for this

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Speaker 1: example of Venom because this was the audience being attracted

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Speaker 1: to the monster as opposed to like in the movie.

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Speaker 1: I think it's an interpretation from the audience. But I

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Speaker 1: want to concluded Tom Hardy, Yeah, but there's a even

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Speaker 1: the It was big enough that the company that produced this,

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Speaker 1: which I believe is Sony, Um, they released a trailer

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Speaker 1: after the movie came out that painted it as a

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Speaker 1: rum com. It was that big of a kidding me. No,

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Speaker 1: and it's great, It's it's great. I guess I need

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Speaker 1: to watch it. I have not seen anything. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: but it's not good. But you know, apologies to anyone

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Speaker 1: who likes me about there. I mean but I mean yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean do you do know what you want to do?

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Speaker 1: I'm just a kind of warn you. It's fun, but

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Speaker 1: perhaps not okay. Older movies were likely to include a

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Speaker 1: less human looking creature lusting after a human woman, like

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Speaker 1: King Kong. I think there is something different about these

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Speaker 1: old school monster movies too, because they were less about

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Speaker 1: female desire and how we view it and more about

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Speaker 1: the male gaze. And we're almost entirely written by men.

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Speaker 1: It's like male creatures assaulting women, right. I guess if

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Speaker 1: you think about how Dracula has changed over time, like

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Speaker 1: it's all of a sudden, this beautiful man like listens,

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Speaker 1: doesn't listen well corn Twilight, he listens. Sorry, he sparkles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that was That wasn't the scene. I laughed, but

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Speaker 1: I almost laughed at that. That wasn't like a laughable scene.

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Speaker 1: his nose. I just didn't know what's going on. I

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Speaker 1: know it's funny anyway. If if we can include fan fiction,

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Speaker 1: which everyone knows I'm I'm want to do, it's everywhere

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Speaker 1: Harry Potter, which is my specialty. There are irresistible were wolves,

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Speaker 1: vampires vila. Um, it's more like they can't resist the

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Speaker 1: human character they are infatuated infatuated with most of the time,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't really and in the books the centaurs are

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Speaker 1: are seen as sexual objects like the women, like the

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Speaker 1: girls are aremagly. I tried it to them. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: show them much so much in the movie books they do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: video games have some interesting examples where a player can

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Speaker 1: choose to pursue a relationship with a non human. I

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Speaker 1: still don't get that. Oh I've done it, I know.

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Speaker 1: I mean like my friend who plays the video games,

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Speaker 1: he does it too, and I'm like, why, Okay, here

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Speaker 1: we go. Um. So usually in this case it's an alien,

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Speaker 1: not of the monster variety. But you know, depending on

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Speaker 1: your take of aliens, I guess anyway. Um, I always

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Speaker 1: went for Garris are Li Area, both of whom are alien.

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Speaker 1: When playing the human female character in Mass Effect. It's

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Speaker 1: like a foreign language to me to the Mass Effect players. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's a game called Coming Out on Top, which is

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Speaker 1: about queer folks exploring their sexuality, where you can opt

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Speaker 1: for a goldfish as a sexual partner, um as one

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Speaker 1: of many paths, many many pass um. It's really hard

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Speaker 1: to describe. Why why why a goldfish? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it's just about options. Um. That's the same with

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Speaker 1: you know, mass affect and Garris. I liked his voice

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Speaker 1: and he seemed even even cute. It was all about personnel,

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Speaker 1: his personality. I got you, I got you. And then

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Speaker 1: there is monster porn our cryptozoological rotica, which generally involves

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Speaker 1: a human woman having sexual encounters with some type of creature.

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Speaker 1: And this is actually largely written by women. Really, there

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Speaker 1: is perhaps a surprising amount of science looking to why

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Speaker 1: this is a thing, or perhaps it's not surprising at all. Um.

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Speaker 1: The current consensus is it has to do with usually

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Speaker 1: women wanting to explore a wider variety of erotic experiences

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Speaker 1: on the internet porn side of it, though, one mystery

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Speaker 1: German dude has produced almost all of the C creature

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Speaker 1: porn that exists, so he does all the tentaical porn.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's tentical porn. I think it's more

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Speaker 1: like creature from the Black Lagoon because, um, when the

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Speaker 1: company that makes the C creature outfit that is almost

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Speaker 1: always featured in these porn videos. Were asked about it

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Speaker 1: um and and told you know, hey, did you know

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Speaker 1: that your sea creature all this porno? They responded, quote,

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Speaker 1: we did not know that our c creature costume was

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Speaker 1: being used in pornographic films. We hope the actors find

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Speaker 1: the costume comfortable, easy to wear, and that the audience

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Speaker 1: enjoys the artistic beauty of the costume. That is the

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Speaker 1: most generic like um company like corporate answer, that's pretty happy.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy it unbiased, like, oh yeah, it was fantastic.

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Speaker 1: We like and you can appreciate that. Due to calls

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Speaker 1: that it promoted bestiality and brutality, Amazon and other websites

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Speaker 1: took down some monster point, including that big Foot one

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Speaker 1: everyone always uses as an example. I think probably most

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Speaker 1: of you have seen it or heard of it in passing.

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Speaker 1: Even if you don't know it bad. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to look it up. It's just popular. I read it.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be ashamed. My head. It's interesting, like I

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Speaker 1: don't understand, like I didn't know this was an option?

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Speaker 1: YEA very naive right now? Well I usually feel that way.

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Speaker 1: So it's good to happen at first I wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to include robots. Oh what a fun sentence that is.

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Speaker 1: But then I got to thinking about the symbolism and

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Speaker 1: the alien movies of the Android trying to kill Ripley

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Speaker 1: in the first one and the newer ones. How David Um,

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Speaker 1: who's an android like always falls in love for the

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Speaker 1: lead female character and or wants to kill her despite

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Speaker 1: being a robot that shouldn't in this in this movie

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have those feelings Um, and all the hubbub about

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Speaker 1: how hot the robot was and lost his face the

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Speaker 1: new Netflix sauce in his face. Okay, so I think

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Speaker 1: he related but different? I mean, would that include like

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Speaker 1: Blade Runner. Aren't they all like some have Android? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess so. I guess so, and they have creation

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Speaker 1: of life and that becomes problematic because they have created

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Speaker 1: life somehow. Is that right? I've not watched it fully,

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Speaker 1: but I know people are really big fans of this, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and they love this idea. And the last one had

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Speaker 1: Ryan Gosling, who was a beautiful, beautiful man playing a

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Speaker 1: beautiful beautiful robot. Right. I was on the Ryan Gosling

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Speaker 1: chain way before me. I was. I was nine years old. Hey, young,

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Speaker 1: Hercules had a big crush. Oh that's right, he was

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Speaker 1: all there episode What if I told you I liked

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Speaker 1: him from Mickey mouse Club? Oh no, you're right. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to know the truth in this world.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I guess that would be like the

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Speaker 1: objectification objectification of robots, right, Yeah, I think there's that

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Speaker 1: could be a hole and I would love to talk

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Speaker 1: about that as well a different episode, but just them

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Speaker 1: like they're you but not quite right, Like there's something

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Speaker 1: I better patorus about it. Kind of unpredictable. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: those those are a lot of the examples, and um,

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Speaker 1: we have a lot more to discuss, but first we're

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Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick fick for work from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you. Sponsored. We're not the only

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Speaker 1: ones who are curious about this, or I'm not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Samantha's just kind of just learning. This is a fascinating topic,

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Speaker 1: so let's keep going, okay. Psychologists think that it in

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Speaker 1: part has to do with the allure and thrill of

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Speaker 1: the unknown. There's also an inherent poward dynamic, a submissive

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Speaker 1: dominant layer that some people are attracted to. On top

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Speaker 1: of that, monsters can often represent repressed sexuality, especially things

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Speaker 1: that are taboo or perverse, and sexual desire. Monsters can

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Speaker 1: represent raw animal passion and also often exemplify exaggerated masculine traits.

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Speaker 1: Can be exciting and different, and sometimes people are attracted

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Speaker 1: to that danger kind of like we were just talking

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Speaker 1: about something else. I found said. Early examples of this,

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Speaker 1: especially in children's movies like Beauty and the Beast, were

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Speaker 1: meant as almost moral tales of male predatory behavior and

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Speaker 1: gender roles in scripts. So men in this case are

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Speaker 1: animalistic with insatiable desires, and women either will fall victim

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Speaker 1: to that desire or have to cater to it. Right.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could say that about the red riding

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Speaker 1: Hood A little red riding hood. Yeah, yeah, that came

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Speaker 1: up as an example as well um Bell's love, and

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Speaker 1: in this case you can read it as femininity and

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Speaker 1: her sex makes the beast human. It redeems his animalistic,

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Speaker 1: brutish nature, brings out his best qualities. Without it, he

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Speaker 1: is a monster. But Gia Tolentino wrote in The New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: the half buried truth about Disney's Beauty and the Beast

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Speaker 1: is that in the end, the Prince is a let down.

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Speaker 1: I thought so too, like it's not as good as

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Speaker 1: the Beast. No, Like, it's not even that for me.

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Speaker 1: It was for a lot of people because you do

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Speaker 1: spend the whole movie with this character and then it's

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Speaker 1: like a blonde ponytail dude. Right wait. I just remember thinking, no,

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Speaker 1: you like the goofy manner. I guess I think I

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Speaker 1: was just I'm thinking about the scene where she's teaching

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Speaker 1: him how to eat correct and he's like, oh, it

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Speaker 1: was always like a big bumbling guy who stopped and he

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Speaker 1: he was like, well, thank you. Yes. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just you spend time like it's kind of odd at

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Speaker 1: the end. Here is this character and it just feels

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Speaker 1: jarring kind of um, and if it is like the

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Speaker 1: top search result if you type in Beauty and the

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Speaker 1: Beast Prince, and it's like, it's a let down. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of people think that. And there's also Stockholm

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Speaker 1: syndrome involved in that. That particular example can also be

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Speaker 1: interpreted as Bell sacrificing her freedom and the Beast sacrificing

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Speaker 1: what made him different. M and then um kind of related.

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Speaker 1: Buffy has that, and I love Buffy. Damn Parcelor but

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Speaker 1: it has that problematic thing with Angel and Buffy where

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Speaker 1: the seconds after they have sex he becomes a mindless

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Speaker 1: monster and she loses him. Um. And then there's also

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Speaker 1: the problematic thing of the attempted rape of Buffy by Spike.

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Speaker 1: Don't they get together in the end? They get together

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Speaker 1: at some points over I can't remember how it ends.

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Speaker 1: I just remember that being a thing. They do get together.

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Speaker 1: So he tried to rape her, but then they got together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is so many things. And then then this is

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Speaker 1: a whole cautionary tell if you have sex, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be really bad. The guy who you like will

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Speaker 1: be an ass. Yes, that was you were going, I

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Speaker 1: got you, I got you. Yeah. And then there's a book.

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Speaker 1: I think it's written by rol Stein. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: definitely one of those teen thriller slash horror riders that

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Speaker 1: I love. Wrote an adult book, adult novel which included

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Speaker 1: this like monster character that I think came from incests somehow,

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Speaker 1: and he's he's a horrible man, horrible thing with no mind,

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Speaker 1: and the mother's trying to control him or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: then he goes out and eats people. But one of

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Speaker 1: the scenes he's raping a woman that he's essentially eating

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Speaker 1: at the same time on a carnival ride. I believe

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Speaker 1: it was really like what is going on? And of

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Speaker 1: course the woman who was eaten was the slut of

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Speaker 1: the characters, so that was like that was like four

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Speaker 1: college friends and the virginal not a word where the

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Speaker 1: virginal one was like protected somehow, but the slut character

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Speaker 1: was one that ended up being eaten and raped as

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Speaker 1: though she deserved it, and she tried to I think,

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Speaker 1: entice him. It has a way to try to get

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Speaker 1: away from him, as if like giving what he wanted,

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Speaker 1: what the monster wanted, she could maybe live, but she

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Speaker 1: of course doesn't. I just remember that being like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, what is happening? So he kind of took

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Speaker 1: all the tropes of the cliches of monsters and films

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Speaker 1: and all of that, and women within monsters and books.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, what what the hell just happened?

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Speaker 1: It was really weird. Yeah, that that sounds a lot

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Speaker 1: like have you ever seen Cavin in the Woods? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that, but Kevin and the Woods is

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Speaker 1: a parody. Um. Also, when Samantha brought this up in

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Speaker 1: the studio that there was an arl Stein, I don't

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Speaker 1: book me and super producer Andrew got so excited started

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Speaker 1: explaining what it was. They were like, oh no, that

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Speaker 1: sounds terrible. I need to go back and make sure.

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Speaker 1: Either it was arl Stein, maybe Christopher Pike, but it

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Speaker 1: was definitely one of those. And the reason I read

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Speaker 1: it was because I love them both so much growing up.

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Speaker 1: You know who doesn't love the Fear Straight Chronicles It's

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Speaker 1: fantastic or all of the goodn't like Goosebumps as much.

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Speaker 1: I like the Fear Street, I like the Witches. I

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Speaker 1: like the one with the two girls who go hit

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Speaker 1: hiking and one of the girls as the murdyrer. But

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Speaker 1: you think it's the guy that they picked up the

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Speaker 1: entire time that he knew had to do a good

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Speaker 1: plot twist, twist twist. Some studies have shown that despite

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Speaker 1: finding the possibility or reality of real life rape horrifying

423
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: and traumatic, up to six of women admit to fantasizing

424
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: about having sex. I guess there will, particularly with monsters,

425
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: and we sort of touched on this. It depends on

426
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: publishing schedules, um, but I think it's super complicated, and I,

427
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: along with the study authors, want to emphatically drive home,

428
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: this is not me that women want to be raped

429
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 1: in real life. No, no, no, no, not coerced, forced,

430
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: nothing of the sort. Um Like some men disgustingly and

431
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: excitedly claimed when these survey results came out, it's um,

432
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons behind it. But like we

433
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: were saying, they are too consenting. Adults can agree to

434
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: like plays or scenes as we all learn the terms

435
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: for yes as in fact in what you do in

436
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: the privacy of your own home with your partner or

437
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: whomever you do with that day, and you have an

438
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: established actual play things consent, consenting thing you want, whatever

439
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: it does, and that's fine. But once again, they're still

440
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: consent and play. Whether it's like there's a time in

441
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: frame at whatever scenario you've got for yourself. UM. And

442
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: I have a lot of my own theories on why

443
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: this is, and I think, like most things, there's a

444
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: lot going on and everybody is different. But um science

445
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: people who studied this and conducted the survey think it

446
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: has to do UM with with both people who generally

447
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: take charge and things and find it a relief to

448
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: not take charge of something, to like relinquish control or

449
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: responsibility um. And then there is also women feeling like

450
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: she can't say yes to something she wants are simultaneously

451
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: fearing and desiring sex um. Are wanting her beauty and

452
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: desirable desirability, which is our currency in this society, confirmed

453
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: as irresistible. And these are like fantasies again like just

454
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: to drive the home its fantasies um. Some psychologists think

455
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: has to do with the woman fearing emasculating the man

456
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: and promoting violence and diminishing her desirability if refusing sex.

457
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: And yes, all of this is very hetero research um.

458
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: And a couple of things to add here is the

459
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: women who reported having these fantasies also reported higher levels

460
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: of consensual fantasies and higher levels of openness and positivity

461
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to sex as opposed to the women

462
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: who didn't. Because of that, some psychologists this fantasy might

463
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: be an underlying desire to explore more sexual scenarios like

464
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: bondage or some other kink. Again. Again, again, do not

465
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: take this as women secretly want for sex, because that

466
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: is not a thing. It is not ever ever a thing,

467
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: not a thing. You will know from the mouth of

468
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: the woman if she wants to have sex, yes, yes, um.

469
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: And because we are going to discuss bondage and um

470
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: fetishes the partner yes, mouth of partner consent on all parties,

471
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: on every party. And again, fantasy different fantasy, and the

472
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: likelihood of someone acting out their fantasies are going to

473
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: be still in the conversation, right and communication mm hmm. Yeah,

474
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: So just keep that in mind. Uh, and we will

475
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: be returning returning to that a little bit in upcoming episodes.

476
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: So distant psychologists take issue with the term rape fantasy

477
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: to saying it should be more accurately described as consensual

478
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: ravishment or agreed to aggression. And again, I think this

479
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: is a lot to do with our own, um past

480
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: socidal ideas of being manly or masculine. And again this

481
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: is very heteronormative. But if you look at things like

482
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: The fountain Head, there's a pretty intense scene of this

483
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: guy coming after her, who is the main protagonist and

484
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: the hero of the book, with this girl who is

485
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: snobby enrich that gets taken by him, and the same

486
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: idea with gone with a win when he picks her

487
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: up and ravishes her essentially and he feels regret the

488
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: next day that is not the same thing, and for

489
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: some reason it is romanticized. So thatfore the idea of

490
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: having a rep butler in your life sweeping your way

491
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: as opposed to, hey, this is any other the guy

492
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: tried to touch me on punch him in the throat

493
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: and thick, I guess I can't say that, I think

494
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: so okay, well I just did m But I mean

495
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: that's the difference is like this is a whole picture,

496
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and again breaking down what is norm and what is

497
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: not norm, and then breaking down what is acceptable and

498
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: not acceptable. Yeah, um, and I know I was reading

499
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: some other studies about how, um, there's a fear of

500
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: communicating like what you want if it's not quote unquote

501
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: normal when it comes to sex, if it is kind

502
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: of a fantasy or something that might be a little

503
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: um more scaye. So it is hard to get good

504
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: numbers around it because you know, people are a little

505
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: so it can be a little shy. Well. And also

506
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: there's still that shape factor that happens, as we talked

507
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: about many many times, and whether or not we can

508
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: say what we want because will you look on me

509
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: with shame? What do I have guilt about these feelings? Whatever? What? Not? Um,

510
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: there's a huge cloud over everyone, um with whatever they

511
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: think is not normal based on their experiences or their

512
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 1: environment or their social ideas. Um. And so therefore they

513
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: would rather just sit in silence that actually communicate and

514
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: be open. Yeah. Yeah, but I think things that are

515
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: changing slowly. Yes, there are a lot of dudes and

516
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: some women who like to argue that the attraction of

517
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: monsters thing demonstrates that toxic masculinity doesn't exist and that

518
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: it's what women really want. And also no, also no,

519
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: like what, yeah, I just saw that in a lot

520
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: of places, and I was like, Okay, well no, but

521
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: I want to address it. Side issue female sea creatures

522
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: giving up power and family to be with human men,

523
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: because I've seen that in a couple of things Allan,

524
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: you are the Little Mermaid. The related side issue the

525
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: quote monster hotness gap. I did not coin that, or

526
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: the fact that generally speaking, female monsters have to be

527
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: hot and overly sexualized, but this isn't as often the

528
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: case with women and male monsters. Just think of Monster

529
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: Halloween teams from men versus women. Yeah, like, I mean

530
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: you and I are talking. Also the fact that when

531
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: we look at the movie with Megan fox. Oh, Jennifer's body. Yeah,

532
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: Jennifer's body. She's a monster, but she's this hot ass

533
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: monster that comes around and he knows seduce his boys. Um.

534
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: And many of the times you see these monsters being

535
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: really beautiful females and then transforming into this ugly thing

536
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: later on in time monster within and right right, um

537
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: as where the monsters of men are just out there.

538
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: And I mean, have you ever heard of the reverse

539
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: Beauty and the beast? Beauty and the hunk, hunking the beast?

540
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: Not beauty and the beasts? So I we hunk and

541
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: the beast, And no it shouldn't beauty and the honk.

542
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: That's just like that's the reality show happening on the beach. Right. Um.

543
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: I just dated myself by using the term, didn't I

544
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think hunks still has a thing,

545
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: I think so. Um. There's also a female monsters sympathy gap.

546
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: We're more likely as audiences to sympathize with male monsters

547
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: than we are with female monsters. I wonder why that

548
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: could be. Also, female monsters are almost always single. And

549
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: I almost went into a huge tangent about it, but

550
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: then I was like, you gotta range almost always go

551
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: after their best friends guys. I've noticed that a lot

552
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: like they go after something that is right, you know,

553
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: supposed to be priority for females, being caddy as it were. Um,

554
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: some of the things we're talking about here can and

555
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: sometimes do fall under the umbrella of fetish or kinks,

556
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: but not always. I do want to mention that a

557
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: Shape of Water themed dildo on Etsy keeps selling out

558
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: and after it's Oscar when it's sold out in twenty deepness,

559
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie I've never seen that movie just

560
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: because I couldn't understand the premise, and I get it.

561
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: I get it. By the same time, I was like,

562
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: there's a really interesting take on that movie about how

563
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be you know, romantic. But at the

564
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: same time, the director's skim adults for right. He kind

565
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: of has publicly looked down on people fetishizing. Um, the

566
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: monster are not even fetishizing, but just kind of romanticizing.

567
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: And but but at the same time, it's like, this

568
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: is what the movie is. It's it's weird. I saw

569
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: that came up a lot when I was researching this,

570
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: but it wasn't exactly what we're talking about so I

571
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: didn't include a lot of it. Um. I've always thought

572
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: this whole thing had something to do with how women

573
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: and society at large are taught to fear female sexual

574
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: desire and pleasure, going back to like the taboo thing,

575
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: so a lot of us have difficulty expressing it and

576
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: also suffer from low self esteem. Into a sexy, powerful

577
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: vampire who literally cannot resist you, who is so in

578
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: love heavy quotes with you, he watches usually bit Night

579
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: and wants to hear your every thought. Creepy. But I

580
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: found some pieces that argued it might have to do

581
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: with marginalized people emphasizing with creatures on the outside of society.

582
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: There's some criticism in that vein to that rather than

583
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: depict sex outside of our sis, hetero noorms, pop culture

584
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: ops for monsters instead. Yeah, I found that interesting. And

585
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: related to this are more modern take on more respectful,

586
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: consensual monsters with women. Pairings and attraction to them is

587
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: sometimes credited to our desire to see stories that allow

588
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: women more sexual agency, that depict more queer lead relationships

589
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: and or depict more non white leading relationships, and Hollywood's

590
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: resistance to that because these are still straight, white ladies

591
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: falling from monsters as opposed to doing that. But like

592
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: we're craving something else so much then what we've seen

593
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: that I guess for monsters or the way we're going

594
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: with it, Okay, something else. I read claim that vampires

595
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: and werewolves, often especially in older works, were layered with

596
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: homosexual overtones and thus a fear of spreading homosexuality. Yes, yes, um.

597
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: And I also want to add that I think writing

598
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: fan fiction that involves sex with the monster that isn't

599
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: consensual is often a way of working through complicated feelings

600
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: around sex or past sexual experiences. Is easier to think

601
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: of someone as a straight at monster than a human

602
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: person who victimized you. That's just my theory about some

603
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: of it, not all of it at all, but some

604
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: of it. And another theory I have, because I have

605
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: thought of episode, is that all of this might have

606
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: to do with male writers grappling with the societal scripts

607
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: that tell them that they can't control their desires and

608
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: women will love them no matter their monstrous attitude. Anyway,

609
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: Are that that the love of a woman will make

610
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: them better? Love of a pure woman? Yes, I will

611
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: make them pure as well, exactly so, there's a lot

612
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: going on here. Um, but we're not done. But first

613
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for a word from

614
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: our sponsor, the Vampire st and we're back. Thank you sponsor,

615
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: And we are back with Vampire Vanpa. Because I didn't

616
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: want to look at them specifically for a second and

617
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: I was. I asked you before we did this if

618
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: you had any kind of monster attraction things going on,

619
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: and you said the one thing that I've always really

620
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: really liked our vampire stories, and I've loved them from

621
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: the beginning. And this is why I also say I

622
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: did know about Twilight. I also loved um Interview with

623
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: a Vampire that was one of my favorites. I even

624
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: watched the one with Jim Carrey, the really really old

625
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: school one. What is it like a comedy? Uh? Good, gosh,

626
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: it's so old was a vampire? Yes, he he transforms

627
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: into a new vampire. Oh and it was um on

628
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: rotten tomatoes but it was film. And yeah, he gets bitten.

629
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: I can't remember the quite premise. He gets bitten and

630
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: he's slowly transforming and it's obviously a bit of a comedy. Um.

631
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, I even watched that one because I really

632
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: liked it. I liked the idea, Yeah, there's something to

633
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: me when you see this kind of like darkness and

634
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: defying death. I think was part of my fascination. Also,

635
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt was beautiful. I will say this thing between

636
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: him and Kirsten Does was really really creepy and almost

637
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: did not make me happy. It definitely didn't make me happy.

638
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: But it's very sexualized. Of all, I feel like all

639
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: of the monster movies or like that type of non

640
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: human movies, vampires are the most sexualized me that anything else.

641
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: I would agree. I would agree with that, and that's

642
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: why we have this whole section specific Um what does

643
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: that say about me? Then? Damn? Oh no, No, you

644
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: were definitely not alone. Um. So I found a lot

645
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: of theories about why we have a fascination with vampires,

646
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: and one of the and while they're so sexualized, I'm

647
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: one of the first things that I ran into that

648
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: was really obvious when I read it, but I was

649
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: still sort of surprised, is that it's a replacement for sex,

650
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: because you're like exchanging bodily wods, but you're not having sex. Again,

651
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: it's someone who maybe can't resist you, who might bite

652
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: you at any time can offer you eternal life, eternal youth.

653
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: Um is unchanging in city. I thought that was such

654
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: a funny argument. But again, I guess that makes sense.

655
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: Like if you're you want somebody steady at commitment in

656
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: your life, then someone who could commit to you. Right

657
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: there you go a safe sex symbol. I found that argument.

658
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: Um the bad boy and the allure of reforming him

659
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: or the tortured sensitive soul. I do love a really

660
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: sad boy. I do too, and I don't. I have

661
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: a lot of friends that make fun of me for that,

662
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: But oh my goodness, I did. I like the tortured

663
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: artist guy. That was my thing. That on another episode

664
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: to come back to the fact that they're mesmerizing um

665
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: the fantasy of not having to be responsible and almost

666
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: always played by conventionally attractive actors. Although the original Dracula,

667
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: sure this is our newer Sparato was not a pretty boy. No, no,

668
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: have you seen um? As we lie in the shadows?

669
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: What we do in the what we do in the shadow?

670
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: I love that. I love the show. I haven't watched

671
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: the show, but I know the movie in itself. It

672
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to the old school idea of like, yeah,

673
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: it's not a sexy as you think, and I do

674
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: love their takes on that. Yes, I love it any

675
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: listeners who are interested. Highly recommended good movie. Um. Twilight

676
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: is often seen is a metaphor for abstinence. Oh absolutely

677
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: before marriage. Edward can hardly resist Bill's sent but he

678
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: must or she will be condemned to be a monster

679
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: to putting the responsibility on the woman for the man's

680
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: desires and actions. Another example of that, um, but also

681
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: complicated by the fact that she does love him right um,

682
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: And also complicated by the fact that I suppose the

683
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: message there is premarrital sex as monstrous yeah, um, and

684
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: I think you're going to talk about it, but actually

685
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: he refuses to sleep with her because she wants to

686
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: be with him so badly. And I don't think ever

687
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: they've ever mentioned sex in the book or in the movie,

688
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: because well, now, I'm sorry beforehand that they don't talk

689
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: about it. Um. But she says something along the time

690
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: learned like because the whole bag, oh my god, I

691
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: can't believe I know so much of the whole back

692
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: and forth is that she wants to be with him

693
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: forever and she doesn't want to grow old and die

694
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 1: he lives or whatever, and he doesn't want her to

695
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: be a monster as he is quote unquote, um. But

696
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: she also wants to sleep with him, and she wants

697
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: to sleep with him while she's still human because she

698
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: doesn't know that things will change when she's not anymore.

699
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: And the only way he will do that is if

700
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: they get married. So he is the one that puts

701
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 1: it on her. So she gets married at eighteen eighteen,

702
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: and for some reason that it's acceptable even this day

703
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: and age, and everybody's like super excited and no one's

704
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: really creeped out by the fight. Hey, that's really weird.

705
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: But this is also that religious dance, which is the

706
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: writer was very religious, is very I don't know, and

707
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: that was part of her thing, is the pale the

708
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: sexual attraction. But he was such a good guy, and

709
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: it's such a good man that he makes sure that

710
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: they're married first, and the's her her reputation. It's not

711
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: yet because you know at eighteen, when you get married

712
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, it's completely normal. Um. And

713
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: I did read that part of the appeal of Edward

714
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: is that his love for Bella propels him to combat

715
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: his monstrous urges interest. Um. And I've said it before,

716
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: We've talked about in other episodes around stalking is not romantic.

717
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: But the romance between Bella and Edward displays many signs

718
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: that are precursors to abuse, if not outright abuse and

719
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: stalking and controlling behavior. Pop culture has for so long

720
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: painted that as romance, and it can be hard to

721
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: unlearn what we have taught. Like Twilight is by no

722
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: means the only offender here. This is everywhere. Right, Oh no,

723
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: it still is every day. Once again, we talked about

724
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: Gray fifty Shades of Gray, and that just happened the

725
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: news word just released a few years ago. Right, yeah,

726
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's everywhere. Um, but I did want to

727
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: put that in there. We are a where that watching

728
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: someone sleep against that will perhaps super creepy. Um. One

729
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: article claimed that the popularity of Twilight and other modern

730
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: vampires um is almost entirely straight women being attracted to game. Um, okay,

731
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: and women being attracted to something dangerous yet safe, like

732
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: they're powerful, but they also have a lot of self control,

733
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: like they can protect you. I don't know, it's this

734
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: whole like being saved idea. Yeah, and being pure and

735
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: walking into something dangerous once again, because both Bella and

736
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: even in Trubla, that's the same idea, and in the

737
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: old school bram Strokers Jacula with Gary Oldman in one

738
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: no writer, UM, it's the same thing, and she's a

739
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: pure woman that comes through as an idea of saving

740
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: an Individuals say True Blood did a better job of

741
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: at least I guess because I had like, what's like

742
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: seven seasons long of exploring her sexuality a little more

743
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: and her being a little more demanding. She dreams that

744
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: she has a three some of them, oh yeah, it

745
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: was very stuck. But two of the vampires though, oh okay.

746
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: I I don't remember that show very well. I only

747
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: watched the first two seasons and with my friends, and

748
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: again I really like that show. But I did like Godrick.

749
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: I remember Godrick very vaguely, and I liked him. Alex Carscar,

750
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: I don't know who he was. He was the one that,

751
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the old human character, and he was one

752
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: of the first vampires. Yes, I think it really is

753
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: a desire to see something different than what we have seen. UM.

754
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: I also wanted to include in here briefly that when

755
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: I was researching this, UM Some examples included things for

756
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: monsters that I found troubling, and I think there is

757
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: a layer of um able is um and misunderstanding of

758
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: mental illness that is at play, and a lot of

759
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: this UM. I just wanted to mention that I came

760
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: across some examples that I was like, um, um the whole,

761
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: this whole idea is so um the meaning two women

762
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: in general um and those who identified them all just

763
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: anybody who UM. I mean, there's nothing wrong in delving

764
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 1: into an imagining world, imaginary world where you want more

765
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: or you want something that is purely your fantasy. You

766
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: can think what you want. Again, I still like vampires.

767
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: I still think it's fantastic. I still like the idea

768
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: um of that kind of fantasy realm. But A, I

769
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: don't want to be stalked. B I don't want anyone

770
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: to draw blood from me. So yeah, you know what

771
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean. But like, there is that fine line of

772
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: where do we push this idea where women become these

773
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: objects of whether it's they have to be the representation

774
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: of purity um and they should be always pure and

775
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: gentle and kind and and giving and change people, which

776
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: is my like my own personal struggle in trying to

777
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: be like I gotta help and fix people. That's not

778
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 1: a true thing, but these films oftentimes portray that as

779
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: this is the best way to be a woman, you

780
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: know what I mean, um or this is the best

781
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: way to be a good partner, and you start looking

782
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: at things like fifty Shades of Gray and understand. I

783
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: think what I do like about all these things is

784
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: it does portray that women are sexual and do desire

785
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: to have to be a part of that fantasy life

786
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: and to do some more exploration and that these conversations

787
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: should happen. But they do definitely like put women in

788
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: a box and you have to be careful on both

789
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: of those levels. Yeah. And also, I mean with most

790
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: media that we enjoyed, well, I don't know about most,

791
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 1: but a lot of media is an exaggeration of life, right,

792
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: Like that's why we're going is because it takes something

793
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: that maybe we feel and exaggerates it. Like superhero movies

794
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: are a great example. They're still human character. I mean,

795
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: when it's done well, they're human characters you can relate to,

796
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: and they're dealing with things we can relate to. But

797
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: on a bigger scale, like on a on a more exciting,

798
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: imaginative scale. Right, So I think that is play here

799
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: as well, because I mean it's just different than a

800
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: rom column. It's a little a little more dangerous. You

801
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: want something a little dangerous? Yeah, Um, so we're about

802
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: gonna wrap this up. Um, we didn't really get into

803
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: you except for you briefly, Samantha. Human monsters are like

804
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: dexter because I think that that is a different thing.

805
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: That is is a whole different level of like serial killer. Yeah,

806
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: and we kind of briefly touched on that with the

807
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: recent like the Ted Bundy documentary and the You on Netflix.

808
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: That is a different thing. Um, Happy to talk about

809
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: it at a future date. But basically, human sexuality is

810
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: complicated and is influenced and shaped by a plusora of thing. Man,

811
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: it comes out in many different forms in many different ways,

812
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: it does, indeed, And UM, we would love to hear

813
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: from listeners about your favorite monster movies. If you've written

814
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: any stories are fan fiction, UM would love to read it.

815
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at

816
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can also find us

817
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter at moms Stuff Podcasts and on Instagram at

818
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: stuff I've Never told you. Thanks as always to our

819
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard, Mr Howard, and thanks to you

820
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: for listening stuff I've never told you. The production of

821
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: I Heart Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from

822
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple

823
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite show