WEBVTT - Delta Variant Concerns as Kids Head Back-to-School 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:34.680 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Okay, it's all about when 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.199 you think about the narrative of this pandemic, how it's evolved, 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.600 how it's had an arc since the beginning. I think 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.760 now where we are in the narrative is the delta 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.320 variant and vaccine nations, getting people vaccinated, getting who vaccinated? 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.879 How young? How old? Uh, it's now turning towards the 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:51.960 very youngest. We think about getting back to school, and 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.760 there's lots of discussions and arguments to be made on 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.000 both sides. Dr Elizabeth med joins US. She's medical director 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.560 of Pediatric Quality and safety at this Whedish Health Services 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.960 joining us on the phone from Seattle. Uh dr me, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:06.920 thanks so much for joining us here. I guess you know. 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.119 Lots of parts of the country are just about going 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.000 back to school, and California starts a week from Monday. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.440 Uh Here on East Coast, it's it's right after a 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.319 labor day. But the discussion is who should get vaccinated 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.000 as we think about back to school, should we be 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.240 should we be getting kids vaccinated? And how young? You know, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.520 I think absolutely. What we recommend is that kids twelve 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:28.720 and over who are eligible for the vaccine get the 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.039 vaccine and get it soon. You know. The reality is 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.840 that it takes several weeks between the couple of doses 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.320 and then full immunity two weeks after that second dose. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.840 And so for many kids who haven't gotten the vaccine yet, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.560 we're already sort of talking about post going back to 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.400 school dates for them to be fully fully protected. The 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.480 cover of the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week is 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.720 all about In the cover story of today's Big Take, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.320 We're going to talk about it in just a few minutes. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.960 It's all about vaccine mandates for kids, and there's some 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.360 pretty startling. UH statistic in here, UH the rollout of 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.440 shots to mills of kids ages twelve to seventeen, Although 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.920 they account for seven point five percent of the U 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.680 S population, it's really lagged. Only of that group has 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:16.119 received their first dose. Why is that, doctor made? Why 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.560 are we seeing this reluctance from parents to inoculate their 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.480 kids When we think about vaccines in the early parts 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.640 of our lives, that's when we get the most vaccines. Yeah, 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.120 that's right. You know. I think there are a couple 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.360 of factors that play into that. And so one of 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.519 those factors, I think is that we know that older 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.480 adults tend to get sicker, right, and so we know 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.960 that although kids can get very thick, can end up 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:39.720 in the i C you can die from COVID, can 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.040 have long COVID, and all those other complications that we 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.760 think about, the rates of that happening in children and 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.520 teens are significantly lower than an older adults. And so 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.160 I think that for many people who are high risk, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.440 you know, they want to get the vaccine for themselves 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.160 as soon as possible, and they may think differently about 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.040 it when it comes to their kids. I think the 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.040 other factor here is that we know it's hard to 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.320 make a health care decision for yourself, and it's even 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.880 harder to make it for someone else, and so people, 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.000 I think are feeling like they want to make sure 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.120 they have all of their questions before they proceed with 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.760 vaccines for their children. So dr me, what do we 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.000 know about how young we could, uh, we can give 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.760 this vaccine to a person? How young can they be? Mentioned? 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.520 Twelve and older? How about some of the younger kids? Yeah, 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.560 so at this point it's approved for twelve and over. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.040 We anticipate that it will be approved for younger children, 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.960 probably down to age five, potentially down to age two, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.160 by kind of early to mid fall, and I know 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.480 that a lot of parents are desperately waiting for those 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.560 dates to get their younger children vaccinated. And the reality 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.720 of this pandemic is that, I think even for families 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.960 where everyone who's eligible has had the vaccine, so everybody 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.960 twelve and older and then the adults in the household, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.800 many of those families still have younger children who are 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:50.680 not yet eligible. And so I think it's hard to 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.640 sort of feel like we can get back to life 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.000 as normal for our families when we still have one 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.600 or more young children that aren't yet able to get 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.520 the vaccine who are living in our house. Doctor. Back 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.520 in May, Dr Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.720 he said that by the first quarter of two UH 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.040 we're going to have quote enough information regarding safety and 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.440 UH immune genicity. You can help me out with that 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.600 one if you want to be able to vaccinate children 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.839 at any age. Does do you agree with that timeline 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.440 that in the first part of next year we're gonna 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:29.640 be able to vaccinate newborns to UH to two year olds. Yeah, 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.320 I think that rings true for the most part. I mean, um, 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.040 we know that there are ongoing trials down to age 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.520 six months for multiple of the vaccines, and so we 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.000 anticipate having quite a bit of safety data even down 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.719 to union since I would guess that it will be 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:45.560 very similar to the flu shot, and so for the 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.040 flu shot, we start giving that at six months and older. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.520 So I'm not really convinced that we're going to be 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.080 vaccinating You weren't against COVID anytime soon, but I think 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.520 those young infants kind of six months and older will 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.200 certainly be in the next way. What do we know 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.600 about dosage I was surprised when when my son got 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.040 his first flu shot that he got two of them 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.800 separated a few months apart, whereas I only got one, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.280 and it was that he got double passage. Basically, so 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.080 for that first year, for any child who's seven or younger, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.400 for that first year, we recommend getting two doses a 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.240 month apart to really kind of stimulate the immune system 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.279 because for many vaccines, that first sort of primed you, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.320 and then that second dose is really what confers the 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.320 full immunity. And after that we consider that yearly dose 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.120 sort of a booster. And so it may be the 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.680 same with with COVID. You know, we're already talking about 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.479 potentially having boosters for high risk groups that have already 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.800 received the two vaccine series, so I think it will 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.520 be probably fairly similar to that. Dr me just quickly, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:43.400 do you think schools will mandate vaccinations. I don't see 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.520 that happening personally until they help full FDA approval for 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.400 the age groups that we're talking about, and so I 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.400 think at that point we can really have that discussion. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.880 But in my mind, it is unlikely to happen until 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.080 we reached that milestone, and hopefully that will be in 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.800 the next few months. So do you think full approval 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.799 just in the last thirty seconds here, we could see 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.480 that by next school year, so that next school year 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.200 they'll be mandated. I think it's there possible. And you know, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.359 so much of this is dependent on what is happening 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.640 in the United States, and that has been very changeable, 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:13.400 so we really have had to be nimble with our 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.800 guidance and I think that will continue to ring true 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.279 as we enter of the winter and then spring next year. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.480 Dr Mead, We like talking to people who are in hospitals, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.520 who are on the ground, who are talking to patients, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.400 who are working with patients, just to get an update 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.359 from the front lines. Are you seeing younger and younger 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.160 patients in your hospital than at other points during the pandemic? 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.240 We really are, you know. I'm a I'm a hospital pedutrician, 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.320 so I only work in the hospital. I see newborns 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.840 up to eighteen who are sick, who are hospitalized, and 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.760 I will tell you that throughout the pandemic, although the 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.159 rates are lower than in adults and especially older adults, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.840 we have seen young infants, kids, and teens who are 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.359 hospitalized who are very ill with COVID who are in 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.400 the ICU, kids who are having long COVID symptoms. So 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.159 although the rates are lower, I think it's really important 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.520 to reinforce for people this is still a disease that 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.760 can cause really critical illness in newborns all the way 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.760 through those those children and teenage years. So Dr me, 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.880 what are when you do see these patients and you know, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.480 are most of them unvaccinated? And if so, what are 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.840 some of the typical reasons that you're finding, uh in 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.680 your hospital? You know, the majority of patients that are 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.640 showing up to the hospital that are very sick, that 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.640 are ending up in the ice with the delta variant 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.040 in particular, are on vaccinated. So we know that the 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.720 vast majority of those statients have not received the vaccine. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.160 And I think that's such an important point because we 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.760 know that although people who are vaccinated can transmit the 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.920 delta variant, they are vastly less likely to end up 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.120 with severe symptoms in the hospital, in the i CU 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.600 or to die from COVID. Right, So, what we're seeing 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:45.480 across the country is that it seems to be the 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.160 skewing now to younger people who are not vaccinated. So teams, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.080 and all the young adults to people in their twenties 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.720 and thirties who have not received the vaccine, who are 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.760 ending up in the hospital and who are very, very 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.440 very sick on adulta variant in particular, if I think 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.240 back to how I felt at the beginning of this 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.520 pandemic and the way that I spoke with friends parents 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.520 of young kids, we always said to each other, Hey, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.480 this could be so much worse. This could be something 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.760 that is really a big danger to our kids. And 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.600 I'm wondering, now, if we've gotten to that point, what 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.160 do we know about how dangerous the delta variant is 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.840 two kids? Is it more dangerous than the earlier or 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.480 or or the earlier versions of COVID nineteen that we 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.000 saw here in the US and in March April may 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.400 have last year. You know, the comprehensive data on that 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.320 really remains to be seen. So we don't have good 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.920 national data at this point on what the actual sort 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.200 of increase in rates of serious illness are. We do 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.839 know that it is still thankfully more rare in kids 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.040 and teens, and we're very grateful for that because that's 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.439 not something we typically see in pediatrics when it comes 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.920 to infectious disease, right, usually children get much thicker than adults, 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.840 and so this seems to be different than that, which 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.719 is good. But we know that rates of infection are skyrocketing. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.679 So we had about seventy two pediatric cases in the 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.000 last week. That was almost double the number from the 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.280 prior week, and it was five times the number that 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.800 we were seeing during the weeks in June. And so 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.640 as we start to see the numbers of six children 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.320 and children who are positive for COVID going up, we 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.719 know that those total numbers of kids who are really sick, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.880 who are ending up in the hospital will also go up. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:16.640 So Dr Me just give us a sense of how 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.440 things are in Seattle. Here in New York City, we're 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.440 seeing cases go up, even though we have very high 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.920 vaccination rates. What's the how are things in Seattle? You know? Unfortunately, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.120 across the country, we are starting to see those bed 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.680 numbers go up. So we're seeing hospitals start to fill again. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.680 We're seeing the number of cases go up. We're seeing 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.960 the number of I see you admissions go up. There's 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.480 an estimation that there's about fifty thou people across the 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.400 country getting hospital that's with COVID right now, and so 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.680 we are very very concerned. I mean, these are numbers 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.120 that we were seeing sort of at the height of 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.440 the pandemic, and we really had gotten better for some 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.360 time as people started to get vaccinated, and now with 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.079 the delta variant and that increased contagion and transmitsibility, we're 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.600 seeing those numbers go up again. So what I would 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.920 just say is, we know for certain the absolute best 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.400 way to protect yourself and the other people who live 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.880 with you or who you have close contact with from 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.640 the delta variant is to get vaccinated, because we know 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.520 that will dramatically decrease your risk of ending up in 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.199 the hospital or dying from COVID. DR me just in 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.240 the last seconds that we have. What do you tell 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.280 parents who come to you concerned that their kids under 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.520 twelve can't yet be vaccinated and they're concerned about them 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.200 actually getting COVID. I have so many parents who have 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.360 that concern, who are just desperate for the vaccine to 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.200 be approved for their younger children. We have a six 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.280 year old in my house who's not yet eligible, who 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.800 can't wait until he's able to get the vaccine, and 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.000 I think that's actually the majority of parents that I 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:36.880 talked to is who are really saying, you know, the 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.760 older kids are vaccinated or I'm vaccinated. I just can't 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.760 wait until my younger kids can get this so that 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.640 we can really feel like our whole bottle and our 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.360 whole family is protected. And my great hope is that 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.400 that will happen really within the next couple of months. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.440 It certainly seems to be the direction that things are going. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.160 Dr Elizabeth Mead, a medical director of pediatric Quality and 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.440 Safety at Swedish Health Services, joining us on the phone 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.480 from Seattle. A big thank you for joining us this afternoon. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.760 The new issue of Bloomberg Business Wig magazine. It is 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.160 available on newsstands now and at Bloomberg dot com Slash 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.640 business Week. The cover story also Today's big Take. It's 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.920 all about vaccine mandates for kids. Is it the next 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.280 big back to school fight? Children have to get vaccinated 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.959 for less urgent threats and it works, So why not 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.240 with COVID? That's the big question. Joining us now is 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.240 Joel Webber, editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.000 on the remote from Massachusetts. Riley Griffin, his healthcare reporter 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.800 for Bloomberg News. She joins us from New York City. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.200 Thank you so much for joining us today. UM, I'm Joel. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.560 I want to start with you. I I was really 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.640 surprised to see the lack of vaccine uptake in kids 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.959 who are ages twelve to seventeen only have received their 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.880 first dose. What why is that? Yeah, there's definitely, um, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.080 a sense of of apathy and it has it's going 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.680 to have some um, serious implications, I think, UM in 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.160 the next weeks and months, especially as we're dealing with 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.600 this delta surge. You know that apathy is it's sort 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.720 of multifaceted and and some of that we go into 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.920 in the story. UM. The fact that kids haven't been 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.280 quite as susceptible yet is to covid is, I think 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.760 one of the driving reasons. UM. There's also I think 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:26.319 a feeling that the vaccines currently have emergency youth as authorization. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.080 They don't have the full f d A blessing. So 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.240 I think there's still some vaccine hesitancy around it. UM. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.240 And we've seen, you know, other countries even take slightly 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.200 different approaches to how kids are supposed to be vaccinated. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.719 So I think they're that all creates a little bit 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:46.880 of a fog that has um led to a slow adoption. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.480 And I think where Riley and Susie King King story 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.679 goes here is an important one because as we're just 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:00.440 seeing now with New York mandating vaccines for for restaurants, friends, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.000 in the not so distant future, we could very easily 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:07.360 see schools mandating vaccines. And one of the main questions 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.520 that m Riley, i'd like you supposed to you is, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.000 you know, look like kids get vaccinated for all sorts 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.000 of things that are far less urgent than COVID. So 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:23.160 could we potentially see schools manding meaning that mandating COVID immunization. Absolutely, 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.320 I mean, I think that's a great question, and it's 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.680 one that we've seen play out, and there's precedent four. 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.520 I mean, educators are having a debate on their hands 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.920 right now as to whether to implement implement mandates requiring 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.480 COVID nineteen vaccines as they routinely do for measle polio 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.480 and other diseases, or to punt because of politics and 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.839 let parents decide. This has really become so political, um 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.280 in part because of that emergency use authorization that you described, 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.840 But once there's a full approval in place. I have 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:58.040 no doubt that schools um at the request of states, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.880 are going to put similar requirements in place. UM. This 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.120 is really just a part of the bedrock of our 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:08.560 education education system, and any parent listening knows that to 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.400 be true. UM. And these mandates persist even though they've 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.240 been so successful that the risk of contracting some of 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.240 the illnesses they cover is almost non existent. You know, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.360 what I like to put in perspective is that the 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.760 last US case of polio dates back to nineteen seventy nine, 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.880 and yet all fifty states in the District of Columbia 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.880 require kids to get vaccinated with a polio shot before 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.360 going to school. Riley, You know, I fear that this 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.680 is going to get really, really ugly, and really personal 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.040 and really localized. Do we have any evidence or do 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.920 we have any precedent here for a COVID nineteen requirement, 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:46.720 because we've got a lot of states I'm thinking in 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.120 the South and the West, they're going back to school. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:50.640 If they're they're not already back, they're going back in 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.800 the next week or two. Yeah, So what we have 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.400 right now is a legal vacuum because we've never seen 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.000 before a mandate put in play ace for an emergency 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.880 use authorized vaccine. That's not to say states can't do it. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.320 They are just a little hesitant to wade out into 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.680 those tumultualist waters. But let me take you back into 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.480 history for a moment, because in nineteen o five, the U. S. 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:22.280 Supreme Court ruled to say that mandates are allowed, that 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:28.880 states can require vaccination, and that individual liberties are not absolute, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.360 that the average person cannot say, hey, in the face 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.640 of a public health pandemic, we are going to reject 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.200 a vaccine mandate. And the first mandate actually for school 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.160 kids goes back even further to eighteen fifty five. So 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.160 there's a great deal of precedent um schools themselves to 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.840 know that this could likely be coming. I've spoken with 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.200 many administrators who said they're just waiting to get more 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.320 parents on board. They want to bolster trust and confidence, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.200 especially while we still have that eu A status. How 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.120 do they tell you, Riley, that they're getting parents on board, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.760 because we probably have a lot of parents who themselves 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.560 are not vaccinated, who are saying, no way, no, how, 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:13.120 when this thing becomes available for my kid. Well, one 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.720 thing they're doing is turning to community organizers, those in 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.040 the community that people trust. UM. Another thing is going 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.600 to be waiting for additional data. You've got data on 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.640 the under twelve cohort coming this fall. We'll see data 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.200 from the Sizer BioNTech vaccine to be specific as soon 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.680 as September. And one thing people have pitched is why 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.760 not wait instead for that full approval before mandating the shots, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.600 So that could push things back a little bit further. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.000 I think we'll see this be somewhat of a patchwork 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.280 of policies across all fifty states. We're already seeing that, 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.480 of course, UM play out with masks, but you could 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.760 see some of the early and more competent states in 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.400 terms of vaccination come out and say we need kids, 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.760 at least in that adolescent population where we've already seen 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.560 an authorization, UM get the shot going into the false 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.320 school year. So you know, one thing that really feels like, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.000 UM they're leading by but from behind here is the 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.920 the FDA, really and and it seems like they're kind 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.439 of they've been slow walking a bit on the on 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.040 the regular for for adults front, and then that becomes 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:30.480 almost UM pivotal for for uptick of vaccinating younger kids. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.600 What's going on with the FDA? Why is it taking 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.480 so long? So the FDA is saying they've expedited the 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.840 process for that sixteen plus cohort and that we could 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.280 know as soon as September really whether or not that 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.320 group is going to get a full approval. And US 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.720 health officials all the way up to Biden himself are 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.600 really hopeful that that's going to sway hesitant adults. Now 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.800 with kids, they need six months of safety data, So 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.720 you can't actually even apply for this biologics license that's 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.639 what it's called in technical terms, until you have that 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.760 six months. So we're going to see it take a 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.200 little bit of time before FISER even makes the approach 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.640 to get a full approval for younger children. Um, what 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.560 can they do in the meantime, Again, it's just turned 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.080 to those community organizers, activists, those at the grassroots level. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.400 Riley Griffin, his healthcare reporter at Bloomberg News. Riley's stories 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.400 on the cover of the new issue of Bloomberg Days 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.920 This Week magazine. It's available on newsstands and at Bloomberg 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.359 dot com Slash Business Week. Also joining us Joel Webber, 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.360 editor of the magazine. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:41.280 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.760 Will be very fluid right now. We work UH and 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.439 it's on a daily for the team that's working on it, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.200 but weekly from a leadership team, we're looking at making 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.600 sure we understand the semi conductor situation, and we're allocating 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.720 chips to our highest demand to take care of our 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.760 customers and also the vehicles that are in plants that 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.720 are capacity constraint, and it is especially your full size 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.359 trucks and suv. That was GM CEO Mary Barra saying 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.000 that company will be very fluid on allocating trips and 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.199 it is currently focused on the highest demand vehicle. She 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.760 appeared with Bloomberg David Weston earlier today on Bloomberg Surveillance. 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.280 All right, when we talk autos, Tim, it's best to 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.520 get in an expert, and we're talking about Kevin Tyney, 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.800 and he's a theater senior autos analyst from Bloomberg Intelligence 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.680 joining us on the phone from New Jersey. When I 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.360 say he's an auto guy, he's the guy that's got 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.200 like grease under his fingernails. He's always taking a part 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.280 cars putting him back together. Like when he bought his house, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.679 He's they basically said, I bought a garage that had 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.520 a house attached to it. So that's kind of you know, 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.800 he's a real auto geek. Evan so Kevin. So that 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.600 GM stock us down nine percent today, what gives? Yeah, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.880 I'm assuming it's uh, probably more in my eyes, an 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:56.080 indictment of what consensus was than really where GM is at. UM. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.680 You know, maybe that that little bear's tone uh during 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.080 the all but you know, I don't think that's that's 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.840 something that's specifically to GM. Right, you're still navigating UM 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.760 supply constraints, you know, chip shortage, whatever it winds up being. 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.720 But I gotta tell you, you you know, some of the 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.240 pricing data, that margin data is is pretty incredible. The 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.680 kind of thing that the industry has probably worked decades 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.960 to get to is kind of where it is now. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.240