1 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. 2 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Josh Wittapolski, and I would love to 3 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: tell you that today on the show, we have a 4 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: great guest. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: I would love to say that. 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: I would love nothing more than to tell you that 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: we had a great guest that's coming on and we're 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: going to have such an interesting conversation about the media 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: world because it's in tatters, it's been shattered, it is, 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: it is scattered into the wind. Tucker Carlson gone, Don 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: Lemon out, BuzzFeed closed, BuzzFeed News rather but unfortunately our 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: guests couldn't make it. Who who I was going to 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: talk to you about all that. I want to believe 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: somebody really tragic came up, though I think it was 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: just a just a tight booking situation and we couldn't 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: make it work. But I mean, I don't want something 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: tragic to have happened to the guests, obviously, just like 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: a tragic event that prevented them from arriving at the 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: studio in time or whatever. That's anyhow, let's not dwell 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: on it. So we're gonna have to wing it. We're 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: gonna have to do an episode where I don't know 22 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: if I'm gonna be able to do it. Like, you know, 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: the thing is, I don't have much to say, and 24 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: I don't have a lot to talk about. I don't 25 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: have very many opinions or positions on the day's news 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 2: or what's happening in the world. So I think it'll 27 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: be difficult, but I think it's possible. And and my producer, Lyra, 28 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: who's here, I think, has agreed to help to jump 29 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: in if if I'm drowning, has agreed to not jumping 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: because that'd be a mistake, then we both be drowning 31 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: in the water. But maybe has agreed to get a stick. 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: Like a branch throw a life. 33 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm imagining you get like a dead like a tree 34 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: has lost a large branch, and I'm drowning, and you're like, 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: then you get the branch and you stick it out 36 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: into the water, is my In my view, I guess 37 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: that's more of a quicksand thing though really like seems 38 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: like actually jumping in and saving me from drowning would 39 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: be the right thing to do. So thanks for nothing, 40 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: so Lyra Smith is here, and then Jenna. I don't 41 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: know if Jenna's going to make it appearance. Jenna who's 42 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: our supervising producer, Jenna Cagile. Now, Jenna doesn't like to 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: I don't think she wants to be on air. I 44 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: think I don't know she's got something to hide. We 45 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: don't know that. We don't know the extent of it. 46 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: But I don't know if she'll make an appearance or not. 47 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: But at any rate, so we're going to try to 48 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: get through. You have a lot to talk about. Why 49 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: are you laughing, Lyra? You don't like am I putting 50 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: on this pause. 51 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 3: I can't see Jenna's face, so I don't know what 52 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: she's thinking when you say. 53 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: That she's happy. Actually she liked it. That's interesting. She's enjoying. 54 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: And then I have stuff to hide. I have stuff. 55 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: Because you do have stuff to hide. I know you 56 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: had a troubled, very troubled teenage experience. I know you 57 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: were kind of a bad kid. 58 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 3: Well, Josh, it's funny that you say that, because that 59 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: is what I wanted to ask you about. 60 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: Oh okay, great. 61 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 3: I said I had a question for Josh, non topical. 62 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 3: It couldn't be less topical, actually, But then you made 63 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: a reference to teenage years. 64 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: I don't like. I do not like where this is 65 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: going at all. 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: You're the youngest person that I know of who dropped 67 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 3: out of school, and I know a lot of people 68 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: who dropped out of school. 69 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: What does that mean when you mean I'm my current 70 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: age is the young No? 71 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 3: No, no, I mean you anybody you dropped out freshman 72 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: year of high. 73 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: School something like that. Yeah, that's right. That sounds right 74 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: to my ninth grade? Is that freshman year? 75 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: How? Yeah? I want to know this story. I feel 76 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: like it's it's it's an important piece of the puzzle 77 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: of who who Josh Chapolski is. 78 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the government program known as mk Ultra? 79 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: I am, Well, that's nothing to do with that, but 80 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: it's a cool it's a cool thing that the government 81 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: did really interesting experiments. So, uh, well, my brother and 82 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: I had very troubled a school career. To be honest 83 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: with you, My school problems began in I don't know, 84 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: third grade or something, second grade, third grade because my 85 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: brother decided one day that he didn't want to go 86 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: to school. My brother Eric, and I don't know if 87 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: I'm exposing him, you know his narrative, but I'm going 88 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: to talk about it because anyhow, So I was his 89 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: little brother. You know, I was a little kid at 90 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: the time. Maybe he was in I don't know, fifth grade, 91 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: sixth grade, I'm not really sure. Whatever, whatever the distance 92 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: was there, and he was like, I'm not going to 93 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: school and was like very militant about it. And my parents, 94 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: you know, I don't think my parents were well equipped 95 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: for certain aspects of parenting, and I think that they 96 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: didn't quite know how to counter this. Eric and I 97 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: were very strong willed, strong willed children. I think we 98 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: were like, we don't want to go to school, and 99 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: they were like, uh, okay, maybe like for a little bit, 100 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: but then you're gonna have to go back. And then 101 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: over time that just became a bigger and bigger problem. 102 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: And so I was in and out of a bunch 103 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: of different schools. I mean, I had more time in 104 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: than Eric did, I think. To be honest with you, 105 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: but you know, one of the things about when you 106 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: start to miss a lot of school when you're young is, uh, 107 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: you know, the feeling of having missed and not being 108 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: a part of all of it, and and feeling like 109 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: bad about like not knowing people and not knowing what's 110 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 2: going on, and like you've been out and it's gonna 111 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: be weird and you get back like that kind of 112 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: I think builds up over time. And nobody in my 113 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: family came up with a great solution. This is the 114 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: probably the most I've ever talked about, like the actual 115 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: like familial situation that was going on. By the way, 116 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: nobody really had a solution. We went to therapists, We 117 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: had all kinds of There was like, you know, intervention 118 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: from you know, people associated with like the Department of 119 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: Education or whatever, you know, like people like you can't 120 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: just not let your kids go to school. My mother's 121 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: a school teacher, by the way, which is in another 122 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: fascinating aspect of the story. She's retired now obviously, And 123 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 2: uh yeah, you know, I don't know. I was also 124 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: like a crazy night owl. Like personally, I think Eric 125 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: slept pretty normally, but I didn't, so I would just 126 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: stay up all night, like fucking around on my computer. 127 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: I started like using the Internet when I was twelve, 128 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: And this is in I don't know a year, was 129 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine or something like, with the internet barely 130 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: existed nineteen ninety, like there was like a local service 131 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 2: provider anyhow. The second I started meeting people on the Internet. 132 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: I was like, who needs reality? I have like all 133 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: these friends in Perth, Australia who are up in the 134 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: middle of the night on the Internet. 135 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: So you know, that. 136 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: Became like kind of my whole world. That became my 137 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: whole life is like talking to people on hanging out 138 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: with people on the internet. And then school was like 139 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: this afterthought. Yeah, by the time I hit ninth grade, 140 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: it was kind of like a it was a non starter. 141 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't going well and. 142 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: It's ninth grade. Is that the earliest that a person 143 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: can remove from public. 144 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, Actually, I don't think the situation was 145 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: like totally. I don't know what the like legal situation was, like, 146 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 2: I mean, my parents didn't go to jail or something. 147 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: You know, we weren't taken away from them, and perhaps 148 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: that's white privilege. I don't know, Like, you know, maybe 149 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: I experienced like a you know, they were like, hey, 150 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: we're working on it, and everybody was like okay, fine. 151 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: In other situations that might not have been the case. 152 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 2: And I think about it from time to time. It 153 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: is like, you know, a strange thing besides not learning 154 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: certain things at a certain period in time, like it's like, 155 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: school's good. Like I have a daughter who's in school, 156 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: and like, I see the result of the school and 157 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: I'm like, that's great. She's really learning important stuff. That's 158 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: super good. But beyond that, I think my ability to 159 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: socialize with other people and my level of I don't 160 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: know about level of maturity, but just my aptitude for 161 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: socializing was adversely affected, I would say, by not being 162 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: in school a lot at a young age. And so 163 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: I think I became a naturally, very somewhat antisocial person. 164 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: Though I think a lot of people would claim I'm 165 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: not antisocial. I seem like I'm not antisocial, but I 166 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: think most of my socializing is a defense mechanism anyhow. 167 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: So that's my story. I don't know if that's helpful 168 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: to you at all, but it is. 169 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: And then by nineteen right, we're like a working producer. 170 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Correct. 171 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: Oh, around the same time I started fucking with the internet. 172 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: My brother was a guitar player. He was taking like 173 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: guitar lessons. At some point he got a synthesizer and 174 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: a drum machine. I can't remember why, but he was 175 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: not interested in them and he sort of discarded them. 176 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, what are these what are 177 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: these electronic devices and let me check those out? Because 178 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: I was just a very Like all my life, I 179 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: was just a very I'm trying to think of the 180 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: best way to describe this. Oh, it was always very 181 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: interested in like how things worked, and like electronic things, 182 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: and like like I also a fairly weird kid, I guess, 183 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: like I used to go and radio shacks don't exist anymore, 184 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: but one of my favorite things to do when I 185 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: was like a little kid, like six, my parents would 186 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: take me to radio shack, and radio shacks sold all 187 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: of these like parts, like these little motors and like 188 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: switches and buzzers, and you could like basically connect them 189 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 2: if you could figure it out, you could make them 190 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: do dumb things like you could make the motor go 191 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: and a light go off and a sound go off. 192 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: They weren't kids, they were literally just like the parts. 193 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: And I used to love to like get the parts 194 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: and like put them together and make weird little like 195 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: gadgets or contraptions or whatever, you know. So whatever that 196 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: thing was was just a continuous part of my personality. 197 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: So when I got ahold of the synthesizer and drum machine, 198 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: I started making like weird computer music, like you know 199 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: what you see these people they're like it's like, there's 200 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: a great documentary about this guy. It's called in the 201 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: Realms of the Unreal, I believe is the name of it. 202 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: It's narrated by Dakota Fanning. It's super weird. Actually, it's 203 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: about this guy whose name is I want to say 204 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: Henry Darger, but he like you know, made paintings for 205 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: fifty years and wrote like a fifteen thousand page like novel, 206 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: like he's out of his mind. But like anyhow, I 207 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: was like that like for music, Like I didn't really 208 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: listen to music, didn't really like wasn't that interested in it, 209 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: Like my touchsdoones for like music. When I was younger, 210 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: I was like, I like the pet Shop Boys and 211 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: the Jesus Christ Superstar soundtrack, so like the real like 212 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: wide range of the spectrum of musical interest there. Anyhow, 213 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 2: So I took the keyboard and the drum machine. I 214 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: started fucking around with them. Then eventually because of the Internet, 215 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: So when I was on the Internet at like fifteen 216 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: or sixteen or whatever, aim did not exist. The Internet 217 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: that I used was like a command line to like things. 218 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: You could visit on the Internet, and there were things 219 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: you could do like once you were online. One of 220 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: them was a thing called telnet, which was like a 221 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: Unix function which dials into like a server that somebody hosts. 222 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: And there was a thing called v Rave, which was 223 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: a virtual rave, which was like ravers would go into 224 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: this like chat room. Basically they would tell net to 225 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: a chat room and then you would talk to people. 226 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: It's like just pure text and emojis, but not emojis 227 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: like you know, like emoticons, like you know, like shit 228 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: like that. It was like super duper like basic. Anyhow, 229 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: so I met people and I ended up somehow in 230 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: v Rave talking to people, and then I was like, oh, 231 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: there's these things like I'm up all night. There's these 232 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: things where people go out and listen to like insane 233 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: electronic music all night long, and and so I started 234 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: doing that when I was like sixteen or seventeen, and 235 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: a bunch of people in Australia were actually ravers as well. 236 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: And then I started making music like that was you know, 237 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: like techno music and trans. 238 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: And stuff like that. 239 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: And then and then yeah, I think I was nineteen 240 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: when I released my first record. I would go to 241 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: Raves and I was sober. I was like the only 242 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: sober person and for a long time, and people would 243 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 2: be like what do you want. I'm like, I'm not, 244 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: this is just my personality and. 245 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: Uh and so like I did a lot of. 246 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: Like observing at raves, you know. I was like a 247 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: lot of like just kind of like what's going on here. 248 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: The first thing I did when I started going to 249 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 2: raves was I thought like, oh, somebody should do like weird, 250 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: Like there could be like cool weird visuals, and so 251 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: of course my gadget brain was like what if I 252 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: bought like twenty old TVs and I like set them 253 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: up in like a grid and then got like live 254 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: video mixing software on my computer and like did weird 255 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: live psychedelic video mixing along to the music? So immediately 256 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: I met some people who were throwing raised and I 257 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,359 Speaker 2: was like, Hey, have you guys ever thought about. 258 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: You know, having a weird visual thing here? And they 259 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: were like, sure, do that. 260 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: And then I did that for a while, which was 261 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: sort of my entry point to like making music and deejaying. 262 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 3: So were you like working like a part time job 263 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: during this? 264 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 2: I had some odd jobs. I worked at a bank 265 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: doing data entry for a little while, which I found 266 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: to be extremely, extremely boring. I worked for a very 267 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 2: short period of time. I worked at a place called 268 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: Mailboxes et cetera, which is a it's like a shipping store, 269 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: and there was a very old woman who ran it, 270 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: who was like the meanest person I've ever met in 271 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: my entire life, and she hated hated my guts and 272 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: thought I was I was terrible at my job, which 273 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: is probably true. I worked one day at a Blockbuster. 274 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: That was maybe my first job was I worked one 275 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: day at a Blockbuster. I thought working at Alockbuster would 276 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: be awesome until I got there and realized what working 277 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 2: into Blockbuster was like. And I was like, actually, this 278 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: is not good and I don't want to be here. 279 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: What was it like, because it still seems awesome to me. 280 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: No, I was just like depressing, and there was like 281 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: a lot of dumb work, like like rewinding videotapes, like 282 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: like finding tapes that weren't rewound and rewinding them, and 283 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: like getting mismatch tapes and boxes, and you know, like 284 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 2: checking people out who. 285 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: Were in a bad mood or whatever. It didn't want 286 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: to be nice to you. 287 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: I was just you know, like any retail jobs just 288 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: monotonous bullshit where you get treated like crap by the customers. 289 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: So I had some jobs like that. I've worked for 290 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: a brief period of time as eighteen as a graphic 291 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: designer at some graphic design firm in Pittsburgh, and that 292 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: didn't work out because I didn't want to. I didn't 293 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: want to do design for other people, like they're like, 294 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: design this thing, and I was like, this is stupid 295 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 2: and I hate it. I want to do my own thing. 296 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: Of course, this is like the story of my life. 297 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: Did you find it hard that you to get a 298 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: job because you didn't have like a ged or like. 299 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: No, never, I didn't find it hard to get a job. 300 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: Actually, weirdly enough, I'm not even sure how I got 301 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: a lot of these jobs that the design one. 302 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: I remember. 303 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 2: I think I a friend of mine worked at this place. 304 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 2: They did like real stuff like for ads, and like 305 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: they were an actual business, like in an office building, 306 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: and and I think I either I went in there 307 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: like one day they would like needed some help with something, 308 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: or I don't even remember it. Maybe I like I 309 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: got out of remember, but they saw some of my design. 310 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: They were like this is really good, Like, do you 311 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: want to work here? And I was like, because I 312 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: had been doing like rave flyers and stuff like on 313 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: the side, anything related to computers I was doing, except coding, 314 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: which would have been the best thing to learn, which 315 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: I never did. 316 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: If I was smart, I. 317 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: Would have learned to code, like like a lot of 318 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: people of that generation. But I was like, everything you 319 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: could do creative with a computer I was interested in. 320 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,479 Speaker 2: But if it had anything to do with like numbers 321 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: or math or like frankly, just learning something that didn't 322 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: come naturally to me, I was like, no, thank you. 323 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: So then when did you move to New York? 324 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: You know, if we're doing like my life story. So 325 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: I started making music and djaying, but like I thought, 326 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: everything I. 327 00:14:58,360 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: Made was terrible. 328 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: And and I met this DJ guy named Duran who 329 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: was a pretty popular DJ from the West Coast. Duran 330 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: Chambers is his name. He co ran a record label 331 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: on the West Coast called Rampant Records, and he knew 332 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: this guy at a label called Fragrant Records. These were, like, 333 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: you know, fairly well known, like trance or techno labels. 334 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: Any I gave him one of my tapes and I 335 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: was apparently he told me the story many many years later, 336 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: maybe months later. I can't remember how long the delay was, 337 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: but I gave him a tape and I was like, 338 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: I think we were at a party in Detroit. By 339 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: the way, this is the kind of thing like on 340 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: a regular basis, I would be in like Detroit or 341 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: Baltimore or like Cleveland or wherever, like just traveling to 342 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: go to a rave or DJing or just hanging out. 343 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: And I gave him a tape. We were in like Detroit. 344 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: Detroit raves were interesting too, because it was like when 345 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: Detroit was like really like fairly like it was pretty 346 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: could be pretty scary, like just like it was pretty 347 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: run down, and I mean still is to some extent. 348 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: But I just remember being there. I think one of 349 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: the parties we were at, they were like, oh, yeah, 350 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: we have snipers on the roof to make sure Nobe 351 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: tries to steal like get out of here with like 352 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: our money. I was like, that seems like a bad scene. 353 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: It's like a bad vibe for the for the rave. 354 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 3: But anyhow, also, don't really trust the snipers. 355 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, It's like maybe it was just 356 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: a story that they were telling everybody, but at any rate. 357 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: I think I gave him a tape in Detroit and 358 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: I was like, this is apparently. I was like, this 359 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: is terrible and not really finished, and like it's not good. 360 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: You shouldn't listen to it. But here's some songs I've 361 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: been working on. And he was like, I put it 362 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: on a shelf. I was like, the guy said this 363 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: was terrible and I'm not listening to it. So for 364 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: many months, I guess didn't listen to it, and then 365 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: turned out he liked it. And that's how I started. 366 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: So it was very random, like I wasn't like trying 367 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 2: that hard anyhow. So then I put out a record 368 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: on Fragrant or Rampant. Maybe I did a remix for them. 369 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: I think I was like nineteen years old something like that, 370 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: probably eighteen nineteen, somewhere in that range. 371 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: Can I just ask like, if you're nineteen and then 372 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 3: all this stuff was happening, did you feel lucky? Like, 373 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: what's the feeling? 374 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: I felt nothing? 375 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: I felt what's the feeling? The feeling was like no, no, no, no, no, 376 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: I mean people do who when you're doing that? You're 377 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: not like, Wow, I'm so lucky. You're just kind of 378 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 2: like I want to do this thing and now oh 379 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: I can do it, and you're like, oh, well, no, 380 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 2: what else I could do like that? At least that's 381 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 2: for me. I was like, Oh, I'm doing a thing now, 382 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 2: like that's cool, Like let me do more of that 383 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: or let me try some other thing or whatever, you know. 384 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: For me, it was just like a rolling, like creative rolling, 385 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: like what what am I interested in doing? What's like 386 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: satisfying to me creatively? And then actually the thing about 387 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: the demo tape was I knew people who were like 388 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: really aggressively like mailing tapes out and like promoting themselves, 389 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: and like I do not have like the promotion gene 390 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: like I think you guys even experience this now where 391 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: I'm like even a little cagey about like putting a 392 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: clip from the show on like Instagram or I'm not 393 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 2: like I'm like, ah, is that great? Like do I 394 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: want to put It's kind of like I don't really 395 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: love like self promotion, so I was like actually not 396 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: working very hard at promoting myself, which is why like 397 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: it seemed like a weird fluke that anybody even ever 398 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: listened to the tape. 399 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: So before I moved to New York. 400 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: I moved to Philadelphia, but this was like many years after, 401 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 2: And in fact, somebody just said me an interview that 402 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: I did in the year two thousand in a magazine. 403 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 2: They sent me a picture of the of the interview 404 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: because they had clipped it. And first off, I come 405 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: off like a complete asshole in the interview, like I 406 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 2: sound like the biggest asshole in the world, like just 407 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 2: a total jerk, and like with a bad sense of humor. 408 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe the writer wanted it to be that way, 409 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: but I'm like, oh yeah, this, God, I sound so annoying. Also, 410 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: I shit on Pittsburgh in the interview. I say that 411 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 2: people can't read there because I had just moved to Philadelphia, 412 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: and I make some I think I was trying to 413 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 2: be funny, like in a way that does not translate 414 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: in print. And I think, of course, now I have 415 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: to say what it was like twenty yeah, something like that. 416 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: They were like, how's Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, And I was like, well, 417 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: at least people can read here, And I think, like 418 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: the joke was. It wasn't like I didn't think people 419 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh couldn't read. It was just like a funny 420 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 2: thing to say, because like they're pretty much the same. 421 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: They're pretty similar, you know, in a lot of ways. 422 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: I remember people being mad about that in Pittsburgh, but 423 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: I didn't care because I was on my way to 424 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: the big time, to the big city. I moved to 425 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: Philadelphia for a couple of years because a bunch of 426 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: my friends had moved there, and I found Philadelphia to 427 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: be Uh. 428 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: Maybe I've talked about this with you before. 429 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if I have Lyra or Jenna, but 430 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not a spiritual person. I'm not a 431 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: big religious person or believer in things like luck or 432 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: Jinx's or you know what, you know, cosmic phenomena that 433 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: can't be explained. 434 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: But I do think it's. 435 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 2: Possible that Philadelphia is a locus of evil on the planet. 436 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Bermuda Triangle, like just a 437 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: spot on the planet where dark, very dark situations occur. 438 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 2: I had a very bad time in Philadelphia. I understand now, 439 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: like it's like kind of everybody's like loves Philadelphia and 440 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: apparently it's great. I have no ill will towards the city, 441 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: but there was a period where I was like I 442 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: got to get the fuck out of Philadelphia. Anyhow, my 443 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: brother moved to New York because he had moved to 444 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: Philadelphia too after I had, and then he moved to 445 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: New York. And then I came to visit him and 446 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: we went to a restaurant which is still in business 447 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: called Diner. 448 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: You know, diner, Lyra, Where is it in New York. 449 00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: It's in Williamsburg. 450 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 3: It's on oh, the one, right off the first stop 451 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: on the L. 452 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, diner. 453 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. I had my first date across the street from 454 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 3: it with Nick Turner. 455 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: There you go. 456 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: So I came to visit Eric and he's like, you 457 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: gotta go to diner. They have a great burger and 458 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, because it's very this is Williamsburg in 459 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: the two thousand. 460 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: I don't what's two thousand and two. 461 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: It's like very recently post nine to eleven, and so 462 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: New York's weird, very interesting vibe in New York, very weird. 463 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: Interesting. 464 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 2: Like for me, it was like, oh, like I want 465 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: to be here. This is this is where it all happens. 466 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: This is the terrorists are going to strike. They're going 467 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: to strike here, So this is where to be. 468 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: Did you meet Laura in New York. 469 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: No, but hold on a second. I went to diner. 470 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: And the thing with diner is that every waitress who 471 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: worked there, at least from what I could tell, was 472 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: like unbelievably flirty. And of course I had some horrible 473 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: relationship in Philadelphia and had been like broken up with 474 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: and felt really bad. 475 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: And I was like flirted with heavily by the waitress. 476 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: And I think just not for. 477 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: Any other reason other than it, would you know, guarantee 478 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: a good tip from the you know, four dumb dudes 479 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 2: who were at the table or whatever. And I was like, 480 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: oh my god, I gotta move to New York. It's 481 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: all happening here, Like beautiful, cosmopolitan ladies are flirting with 482 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: me at the restaurant. 483 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: You know, the burger is great. Like literally it was 484 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: like that. 485 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: It was like something as simple as like WHOA, this 486 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: feels better. You asked me a question. What was the question? 487 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: Did you meet Laura in New York? No? 488 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: I met Laura. 489 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a fast forward here to this story. 490 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 2: But my brother and I ended up having a studio 491 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 2: music studio in New York, and we had a band, 492 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 2: but we also were producing different bands like Chick Chick 493 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 2: Chick we made a record with and some other bands. 494 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: And I saw them, Oh really, yeah, they're great. 495 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: We made a record called Mythtakes with them, which I 496 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 2: believe todate is their highest reviewed record on Pitchfork. So 497 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: that's all my doing, undoubtedly. But anyhow, but so we 498 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 2: were doing that for a while and then a friend 499 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: of ours brought He was like, my friend has a 500 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: band and they want to make a record. Can I 501 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: bring them to the studio? And they came up from 502 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: Pittsburgh and it was is this guy, John de Zubin's 503 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: band and John is Laura's brother, And we produced their 504 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: record and then we went back to Pittsburgh. This is 505 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: the summer of two thousand, I want to say four 506 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: or five, for they had a record release party for 507 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: their record that we produced, and that is like technically 508 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: where Laura and I met, though she claims there was 509 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: an earlier encounter at our friend's house where we were 510 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: on his porch and she was having a cigarette and 511 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: I told her that smoking was really bad for you 512 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: and she should quick because she's going to get cancer, 513 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: which like absolutely sounds like my move, so like Byboove 514 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: would have been to just say whatever was on my mind, 515 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: usually something negative to whoever, especially if it was a 516 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 2: cute girl. Edihow, so, you know, nagging, very good flirt technique. 517 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: I think we all know very. 518 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: Much you were the original. 519 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: But uh yeah, that's that's a long time ago to now. 520 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: So then did she move to New York? 521 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Yes, well we started dating. 522 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: We started a long distance love affair, and then I 523 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: was like, why don't you come visit me? And oh, 524 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: I should mention like her boyfriend at the time was 525 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: the drummer in John's band, so who was also named 526 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: Josh and was also like a tall guy with a beard. 527 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to read too much into it. 528 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 2: But you know, let's just say I've spent some time 529 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: in therapy discuss it. No, I haven't, but tough guys 530 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: don't go to therapy. Tough guys like myself. Laura and 531 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: I actually began a relationship on MySpace. To be honest 532 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: with you, like if I can date the whole thing 533 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: for a second. We sent a lot of messages to 534 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: each other on MySpace and then I was like, you 535 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: should come visit, you know, come to New York for 536 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: a weekend or something. And then she came to New 537 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: York and we had a great time, and she went 538 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 2: back and I was like, look, there's no way I'm 539 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: going to be successful in a long distance relationship. 540 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: You should just move here and live with me. And 541 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: that's what we did. That's what we did. 542 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 3: Wow. 543 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: And one year later we were engaged and one year 544 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: later we were married. 545 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 3: Wow. 546 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 2: We got married at the Carnegie Museum of History or 547 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 2: whatever in Pittsburgh. 548 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: Well, actually, I didn't want to. 549 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: Ever have a wedding, and then Laura told me that 550 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: you could rent the museum and that there was a 551 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: possibility of doing getting married in like the dinosaur. 552 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: Whatever, but it was under construction. 553 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: We got married in the whole of North American Wildlife, 554 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 2: and we had our reception in the Hall of Architecture, 555 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 2: which was like all of these recreations of giant famous 556 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: pieces of like you know, like Roman columns and things 557 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 2: like that. Anyhow, it's fun. That was a fun time. 558 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 2: It was a fun time. It was also a time 559 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: when like we were like, how are we going to 560 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: pay for this? Because we paid for it ourselves and 561 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: it was like, I don't know, it was like several 562 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: thousand dollars, but like it was not like it, Like 563 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: now it seems like wow, like that should not as 564 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: stressed as hot as much. 565 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: As it did. 566 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 2: But it was like a lot of money at the time. 567 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: Like now that I'm like grown up, I'm like, oh, 568 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: it's not that bad. But like at the time, I 569 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: was like, what are we doing? 570 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 3: Well? You didn't have the comparison to like the thirty thousand, 571 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: forty thousand dollars weddings as like the norm. 572 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: No, I didn't have any comparison because I'd never spent 573 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 2: a second thinking about weddings at all, except that I 574 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 2: didn't want one. 575 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: I didn't want to have one. 576 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 2: It's kind of like how I thought about poodles, Like 577 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 2: I thought poodles came with that hair dial like I 578 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 2: thought when I was a kid, did I already talk 579 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: about this? We had We got a poodle when I 580 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: was a kid. His name was Fletch. My mother had 581 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: had poodles when she was growing up. We wanted a 582 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 2: dog really badly, so we went shopping for dogs, and 583 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: but like before we went, I was like, I don't 584 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: want a poodle because I thought poodles came with those 585 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 2: I thought they were like genetically had those ball like haircuts, 586 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 2: you know, like I didn't realize that that was It's 587 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: so funny the way kids minds worked. 588 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: But I didn't realize that that was like a choice. 589 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: And then we started like looking at dogs, and I like, 590 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: you know, we eventually found like some dogs and we 591 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: were like, we really love them, and we were playing 592 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 2: with them, and I was like, is this a poodle, 593 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: because like I kind of had like a feelid. 594 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: Then of course I. 595 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: Realized that the poodles don't have tom don't have to 596 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: have that haircut. But also we realized that poodles are 597 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: very ill tempered dogs. And and Fletch was very, very cruel, 598 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: but every member of the family. No, he was fine, 599 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: very smart. He figured how to open his crate from 600 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 2: the inside. He could open his cage and get out. 601 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 2: He set off our motion alarm all the time. It's 602 00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: fun stuff. 603 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: We've digressed. 604 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: So then when did you get into journalism. 605 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: It's funny you. 606 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: Should ask that my brother and I were running the studio. 607 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 2: We were producing bands, and then uh, this website and 608 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 2: gadget had a call for which I read all the time. 609 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: You know, I was like a nerd, so I was 610 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: reading all like the tech blogs and stuff like that, 611 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: and they had an open call for writers, like every 612 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 2: once in a while they'd be like, you know, hey, 613 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 2: we're looking for writers. Are you do you want to 614 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 2: freelance for us? Like do you want to write blog posts? 615 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: And I was like that would be fun, maybe I 616 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: could do that, And you know, I sent like a 617 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: submission like I'm like, hey. 618 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to write for you. 619 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: Here's like whatever they asked for example, posts or something, 620 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 2: and then like pretty quickly like ended up like doing 621 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 2: that and then so at night. 622 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 3: Like it in writing things as you were going or. 623 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: You know, I'd written a couple I'd written a couple 624 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: of reviews, like for like magazines, like very basic stuff, 625 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: you know, mixed mag or somebody would be like, hey, 626 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: do you want to do like a guest review of 627 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: like a. 628 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: Record or something. 629 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: I'm like sure, And it would be like, you know, 630 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: a very small but like not like on a regular basis, 631 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: like I did like two of them or three of 632 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 2: them or something. 633 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: No, I hadn't been writing at all. 634 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: I had, so then I had to write stuff in 635 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 3: order to do this, like to send in samples, you 636 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: had to like write news. Yeah. 637 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 2: I think it was like do a writing sample or 638 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: like do you know it was like pick a story 639 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: and write a blog post about it or something. I 640 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 2: remember at the time, I was like really into palm devices. 641 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 2: Do you remember palm pilots. 642 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: Well, they had phones, right, they'd like and there was 643 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: like a leak of like. 644 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: There was some new Palm phone and I remember like 645 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: I found it on some weird forum and I like 646 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 2: brought it to the people at you know, I brought 647 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: to like the editor, and I think they were like 648 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: impressed that I had gone like and gone with splunking 649 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: for like this you know, leaked photo or something and anyhow, So, yeah, 650 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: so I started working there like part time, just like 651 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: you know, writing blog posts. 652 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: You know. I was edited and worked with like the 653 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: people who would. 654 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 2: Work there for a while and and then like so 655 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 2: so by day I was producing music and by night 656 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: I was you know writing, Like there was a pretty 657 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: good period of time. 658 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: This is in like the. 659 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: Heyday of like original blogging, where I would write like 660 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 2: ten blog posts a day and I was paid eleven 661 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 2: dollars a post. Like, so I was like, this is 662 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 2: pretty good money if I can write like ten of these, 663 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: you know, and they're like, yeah, you know. 664 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: Three to five hundred word like very bloggy. 665 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: Just it was just fucking very random, like about tech 666 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: stuff by gadgets and whatever. Anyhow, So I did that 667 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: for a while and then and then they were like, 668 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 2: this is you're doing great. Do you want to work 669 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: here full time? And I thought, like I did? I 670 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 2: mean I did because I liked it a lot, and 671 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: also like the music business sucks, like it sucks like 672 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: being a producer unless you are this is of course 673 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: a different era, but like I wasn't doing okay, but 674 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: it's just a tough racket. You got to chase people 675 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: down for money, and unless you're having like huge success, 676 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: you know, it's very tough, very tough to make a 677 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: living at it. 678 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: So I was like, yeah, I'll do that full time. 679 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: And then a year later I was the editor in chief. Wow, 680 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: a lot of my stories are like a lot of 681 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: my stories shill learn. 682 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 3: Why do you think this is? Like I'm hearing this 683 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, do you not watch TV? 684 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: What do you mean? Like I mean not really, no, 685 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: I don't. I mean not a lot, but. 686 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 3: Like it feels like you've spent a lot of time 687 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: filling your days with like actual productive activity without thinking 688 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 3: of it as being productive. 689 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: No, right, just no, all my activities were purely pleasurable 690 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: for me. You know, I've basically tried to gravitate towards 691 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: things that I found enjoyable to do and interesting, like 692 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: creatively and intellectually. 693 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: So no, I mean I didn't think. I don't I'm 694 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: not a. 695 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: Big planner or like a big like let me step 696 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: back and admire the view of what is going on. 697 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: It's more like, you know, I'm just doing just moving 698 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: forward towards the thing, whatever that thing is. 699 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: And but you've been. 700 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 3: Able to be successful in all the things, which is 701 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 3: like impressive, like the stuff that you're interested in, you 702 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: find like very quick success. 703 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think I just I'm very tall, So 704 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: I think people are just intimidated. I just show up 705 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: and they're like, just don't mess this guy's big, who 706 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: knows what he's gonna do. 707 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: No, I don't know. 708 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: It is interesting like like when I joined when I 709 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 2: joined NGADGA full time, I got very immersed in doing it, 710 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: and I became very quickly like very good at I 711 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 2: think what I was doing. And then you know, began 712 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: like leveled up a bit, like became an editor of 713 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 2: other people like pretty quickly. And then what happened was 714 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: like about a year or a year and a half 715 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: something like something like a year a year and a 716 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 2: half after I joined full time, the editor who was 717 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: there was leaving to go do something new, and there 718 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 2: was this like kind of weird like nobody seemed to 719 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 2: know what was going to happen because he had been 720 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: there for like a really long time, guy named Ryan Block, 721 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: and you know, because it was owned by AOL and 722 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: AOL sucked and they always manage things badly and to 723 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 2: like extinction, and there was a feeling of like who's 724 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: going to take over now or who's going to run 725 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 2: this that can like carry the baton or whatever. And 726 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: I was like, hey, like I think I'd be good 727 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: at this. And I talked to like other people there 728 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: and I was like, hey, would you guys be if 729 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: I was like put myself forward to like do this, 730 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: would you be into it? And people are like yes? 731 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: And then it was so it was kind of like 732 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 2: we sort of came up with a plan like as 733 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: a as a group, and I mean it was my 734 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: somewhat my plan, I guess, but you know, it just 735 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: felt like there was a vacuum there and we should 736 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: be mindful of like filling it the right way or whatever. 737 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: And that was that, Like it is odd. I don't know. 738 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: I think it's probably a lot of this has to 739 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: do with I just like probably to in some ways 740 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 2: negative way. But I'm very blunt. I've been very blunt 741 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: and very straightforward with people about like what I want 742 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: or like what I would like to do, and if 743 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 2: not straightforward with them like verbally, just like straightforward about 744 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: like what it is I am doing and enjoy doing. 745 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of friends, but like I 746 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: became very close with the people that I work with, 747 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: Like I've always been very close to the people that 748 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: I work with, and and I like value those relationships 749 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 2: and like this is a weird especially as a boss 750 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: to be like, because I am a boss of people 751 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 2: and have been for a while, but like to be like, well, 752 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: I think of those people as my friends because at 753 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: the end of the day, like I'm like a manager 754 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: and they are people who work at a company. But 755 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: I also feel like just surrounding yourself with good people 756 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: and getting to work with them is is really important. 757 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: So I haven't I didn't invest a lot of time 758 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: in like I don't know what other other people do. 759 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, socializing or. 760 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 2: Going out and enjoying life, watching movies, Like I've done 761 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: some of that obviously, but I've spent a lot of 762 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 2: time like doing the work the thing that I'm working at, 763 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: because the thing that I'm working at is usually like 764 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: the fun thing and the good thing, and I get 765 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: to hang out with cool people and do it with 766 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 2: people that are interesting and you know, fun to talk 767 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 2: to and work with and create with. 768 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 3: So and then what year is that that you're editor 769 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 3: in chief of in Gadget. 770 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: Two thousand and eight nine? Maybe? 771 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 3: So, then when does box happen? 772 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: Well? 773 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 2: Okay, So there was a guy named Marty Mo who 774 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 2: worked at AOL who was like in charge of the 775 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: media brands there. And Marty is this guy he had 776 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: like a really big vision for a really bold media brand, 777 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: like if we like expand these franchises that we have, 778 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 2: like end Gadget was one of our brands, and there 779 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: were some other things, you know, when AOL News was 780 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 2: sort of like a still a thing and kind of 781 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: taking more of a shape. This is before hoftingon post 782 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 2: or any of that. Because I remember AOL bought Hofftington Post, 783 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: so Marty and I became buddies like after I you know, 784 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: started running end Gadget, and we sort of like were like, Hey, 785 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't it be cool if we could expand this, Like 786 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't be cool if we could like make this bigger 787 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 2: and more bold and try some new things and like 788 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: do more video and do this, you know, like basically 789 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 2: the verge. Like we were like, it'd be cool if that, 790 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: but that didn't exist right, Like we didn't have budget, 791 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: we couldn't hire people, we didn't have like any ability 792 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: to like make really interesting choices about like the product 793 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 2: and things like that. So we took it to the 794 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: to the people who ran AOL, where like would you 795 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: be open to investing money? Like this thing's all was 796 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: really successful, and we were like, would you be a 797 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 2: into investing like a little bit more money in it 798 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: so we could. 799 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: Make it like a huge like a huge business. 800 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 2: And they were like no, like we're not going to 801 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 2: invest in fact, we're probly going to do some layoff 802 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 2: soon or whatever, you know, And so we were like 803 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 2: fuck this, like fuck that, like we should go just 804 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 2: do it. Like we were talking on the phone one night. 805 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 2: I think I said something like, God, I wish we 806 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: could just like take n gadget like out of the 807 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: company and just run it on its own. And then 808 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: we were like, oh, wait, like maybe we can like 809 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 2: or maybe we can just like see if other people 810 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: would want to do that, and maybe there's somewhere to 811 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: like build something new, or maybe we could build something 812 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 2: from scratch or whatever, and that like kind of snowballed 813 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: into we met Marty knew this guy named Jim Bankoff. 814 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: Jim Bankoff was running a website called ESB Nation, which 815 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 2: was a network of fan run sports blogs and it 816 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 2: had grown to like a pretty big size, but it 817 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: was like all sports focus. And we met with him 818 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: and they had a really cool CMS, which is the 819 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: content management system. They had a really cool like technology 820 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: that they were building to like publish like on the Internet. 821 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: And I thought that was really interesting, and we had 822 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 2: a lot of very similar ideas about like the future 823 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 2: of media on the Internet, and you know, if we 824 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: could bring the right people over and build something, like 825 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: could we build something together? And that's that's how Vox started, really, 826 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: and they had this like sports focused thing and we 827 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 2: brought in not everybody but a lot of people from Engadget, 828 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: but then from other places as well, and we started 829 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: building you know, the verge, which would become like the 830 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 2: first that was like the first, like vox brand. So 831 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: that's how that started. I mean it's obviously there's a 832 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 2: lot of complicated pieces of that. 833 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, this is not topical. 834 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 3: But this is I said it wasn't topical. 835 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 2: This is interesting interesting. I don't usually talk just about myself. 836 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 2: Of course, I love doing it. It's great, very enjoyable 837 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: to me to just talk about how cool I am 838 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 2: and all the great stuff I've done. 839 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 3: Well, I've been wanting to piece these bits together. 840 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: Does it make Is it making any sense? 841 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's making a lot of sense. 842 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 2: I've had people come up to me and be like, 843 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 2: you know when we've done events and stuff and say 844 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 2: like how do I how would I do what you've done? 845 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: Or like what like do you have any advice? And 846 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, actually, like I would only have 847 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 2: the shittiest advice that I would never give anybody, Like 848 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: definitely wouldn't tell anybody to do what I did, Like, yeah, 849 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 2: drop out, don't go to any school. Just drop out 850 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: of school as soon as you can and fuck around 851 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 2: with whatever you enjoy and he'll probably get successful doing 852 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: it or whatever, you know. But like it is like 853 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: a very strange thing. By the way, I think I 854 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 2: should clarify here because I said it before. My mother 855 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 2: is a school teacher. My father sold snack foods. That 856 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: was his main job. He literally had a van that 857 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 2: he would drive around. He like distributed snack foods to 858 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,959 Speaker 2: like local delis and like corner stores. Like I would 859 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: not say it was a large business. Think he made 860 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: less money than my mother, who was a school teacher. 861 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 2: So like very aggressively middle class parents, like aggressively middle 862 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 2: class existence. 863 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: You know. 864 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: It's like Tucker Carlton, for instance, heir to the I believe, 865 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 2: like the Swanson Chicken fortune or something right, Like Tucker 866 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: Carlson could do whatever he wanted and never worry. 867 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: About the consequence. 868 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: It's like like Spike Jones, very talented guy, but also 869 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: like I'm pretty sureless like the heir to like the 870 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: Spiegel fortune, and like remember the Spiegel catalog. I don't 871 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 2: know if you do, but anyhow, I'm pretty sure that's 872 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: his family. By the way, I'm not saying I'm Tucker 873 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 2: Carlson or Spike Jones level. They are just the first 874 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 2: two that popped into my mind. Nobody in my family 875 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 2: was a journalist. Nobody in my family made music except 876 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 2: for my brother, but he made like indie rock and 877 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 2: he still makes music. But it wasn't like there was 878 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 2: some thing like this is the family business or like 879 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: you're rich, so don't worry. 880 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 3: And it doesn't even have to be that. It's just 881 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: having this the money right, right, you don't have to 882 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 3: want to do the exact same thing that your parents 883 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 3: did to get a leg up if you have. 884 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 2: Right, No, no, no, I mean yeah, we didn't have. 885 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 2: In fact, like my parents talk to me all the time. 886 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 2: They tell us all the time about how we were 887 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: we like put them in debt and you know, like 888 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 2: they had to support us for longer because we didn't 889 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: have like you know, we didn't go to college and 890 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 2: we didn't have I was like, well, we didn't go 891 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: to college, Like so that saved you some money, right, 892 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 2: like for sure, like you know, but like they are like, oh, 893 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 2: we have so much debt because of you too, which 894 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: is like actually very rude because like I didn't tell 895 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 2: them to be parents, Like that's not my fault, Like 896 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't in sharp. They're like all the time, they're like, 897 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 2: oh you were, say you were impossible, and I'm like, 898 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 2: I was nine, Like I wasn't in charge. I don't 899 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: know why you let me make decisions. Like Laura and 900 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 2: I have talked about this. She was the first person 901 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: who was like, you know, it's pretty weird actually how 902 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 2: your parents like blame you for like not going to 903 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 2: school when like, for sure, like that was their job 904 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 2: to deal with, like they needed to deal with that, 905 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 2: you know, And I see it now like Zeldason days 906 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 2: is like I don't want to go, and I'm like I. 907 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: Get it, I get it, but you're fucking going. 908 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 2: You're going to school, Like it sucks sometimes to get 909 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 2: up and go, but you just got to do it. 910 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 2: Like I definitely see very clearly, like the things that 911 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 2: you're supposed to do that are hard as a parent 912 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,280 Speaker 2: or whatever. 913 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: Not to say I'm a good parent or perfect parent rather, 914 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: but anyhow, fucking so. Yeah, So I didn't come from 915 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: money and I have a silver spoon in my mouth. 916 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I was like we were broke or anything. 917 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: We weren't. 918 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 2: People are way worse off than my parents were. You know, 919 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 2: and I can't look at it and not go I'm 920 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 2: like a tall white guy, a natural fit in a 921 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 2: lot of environments for like who's the boss supposed to be? Right, 922 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 2: like just in the modern era where we are all 923 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 2: hopefully I was trying to think more about shit like that. 924 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 2: It of course is like a factor, but it never 925 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 2: occurred to me at the time. I wasn't like, wow, 926 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 2: I should because because the thing is like I usually 927 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 2: end up in rooms with people who are way better 928 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 2: on paper than I am, like most of the rooms 929 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 2: I end up in to this day. And this is 930 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 2: interesting but also like very weird for me, as like 931 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: people who are really well educated and do come from 932 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 2: money and have had like all of the advantages and 933 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 2: and I don't begrudge that or anything. It's just it's 934 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 2: very weird to me because I don't feel like those. 935 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 2: I'm not part of that club. 936 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: Like I'm not. 937 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: I didn't go to a good school, I don't have 938 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 2: a great network, you know, my family doesn't have money. 939 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 2: And there was definitely no guarantee or not even close 940 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 2: to it. 941 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: There was. 942 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 2: Actually all of the guarantees based on my schooling and 943 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 2: stuff were sort of like you're going to fail in 944 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 2: like a hundred different ways in life and be like 945 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 2: really fucked up because of it. And so I think 946 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 2: about that, you know, quite a bit, especially when I'm 947 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 2: like talking to people about things that I feel like I. 948 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: Shouldn't know about, you know. 949 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not like gonna say I have imposter 950 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 2: syndrome or whatever, like, because I know I'm an impostor. 951 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: I don't. It's not a syndrome. It's real. 952 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 2: But you know, but rooms like now, sometimes I'm like 953 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 2: looking at spreadsheets of insane like I'm looking like a 954 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 2: P and L and I'm like, why do I even 955 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 2: know what a P and L is? Like I'm a 956 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 2: fucking high school dropout. 957 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:33,720 Speaker 1: Anyhow. 958 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: Just goes to show, you know, if you follow your 959 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 2: passions and you work hard enough, amazing things can occur. 960 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: I disagree with that just because you and I have 961 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: like such It's so interesting to hear you say this because 962 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: you and I have very similar My mom. 963 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 3: Was a teacher, my dad was a chid Gee. Guy, 964 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 3: I'm sharing about myself. 965 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, right, that's right. 966 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 3: I love the mystery of Jenna and here we go. 967 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: We were like very middle class and I also went 968 00:40:59,400 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: into juggle. 969 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 3: But I was not tall and I'm not a man. 970 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I am nowhere. You're as successful as. 971 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 2: You are, Jenna. That is the only quality that I have. 972 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 2: That was it just my tallness and being a man. 973 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 2: And no, I mean, look, that's what I'm saying, is 974 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 2: it's a I don't want to say its a fluke. 975 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a fluke. I don't think it's luck. 976 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 2: Although if I believed in luck, I might say, Wow, 977 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: I've been really lucky. 978 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,760 Speaker 3: I don't think it's luck either. But it almost sounds 979 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 3: to me And I'm only just hearing all this stuff 980 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 3: for the first time. You're just telling me this for 981 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 3: the first time. 982 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 1: What's your review? We've never talked about this at all before. 983 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 3: And I'm like absolutely looking at it through the lens 984 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 3: of me and having like, I mean, my major disability 985 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 3: in life, or my major adversity in life is insane 986 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 3: neuroticism and anxiety. And it almost sounds like the lack 987 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 3: of concern for what could go wrong, Yes, five years 988 00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 3: down the line, ten years, what am I going to 989 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 3: be doing in twenty years? The lack of like fear 990 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 3: of that and like concern it sounds like helped you 991 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 3: focus on what you really wanted to get good at 992 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 3: and that and you got good at it. 993 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: You know, no, but you're right. 994 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 2: But here's the interesting thing, the flip side of that, 995 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 2: and this is like to my detriment, the thing with 996 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 2: me is I have two qualities that that I believe, 997 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 2: like to your point that the thing you're talking about 998 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 2: can be amazing and helpful, but are also like wildly destructive. 999 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 2: One is like any problem at all, think of anything, 1000 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: doesn't matter if it's small, like this door knob is broken, 1001 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 2: or let's start a media business and raise ten million dollars, 1002 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 2: like I'll go, why, well, like why couldn't I? Like 1003 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 2: why couldn't I? I have a tendency to go. I 1004 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 2: would describe it as like I would say optimism, but 1005 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 2: it's probably not that it's something else where. I'll just 1006 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 2: my thinking is in any situation like, well, why couldn't 1007 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 2: it work? I think a lot of people, or it 1008 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 2: is a very natural thing to go like here are 1009 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 2: all the ways it And by the way, I actually 1010 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 2: can be very negative about stuff. I can actually be 1011 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 2: very critical of things. But like when it comes to 1012 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 2: like a thing I want to do, or think I 1013 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 2: can do. My immediate thought is like, well why can 1014 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 2: I or why shouldn't I be able to, which is 1015 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 2: like obviously built up over years of like not just 1016 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 2: because I've done it, but it is just my mode. 1017 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 2: It is like if it's broken, why can't it be fixed? 1018 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 2: Like if it isn't done, why couldn't I do it? 1019 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 2: If it's like, why couldn't it be me? And this 1020 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 2: is I'm not saying it's to sound like a jerk 1021 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 2: or egotistical or whatever. And I'm not saying it's even 1022 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 2: a great quality because it means that sometimes I do 1023 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 2: things that are like really don't end up that great 1024 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 2: and little things in big things, you know, like the 1025 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 2: other day I installed a microwave, but I had never 1026 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 2: done that before, and like, you know, there was a 1027 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 2: period during it and I'm still like every day I'm like, well, 1028 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 2: it's still hanging there, like it's still on the wall, like, 1029 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 2: but there was a period in the middle of it 1030 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 2: where I was like I'm in over my head, like 1031 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 2: I don't actually know how to finish this thing, And 1032 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 2: then even bigger things like where I'm like fuck this, 1033 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 2: I'm quitting this job and I'll go start my own thing, 1034 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 2: and like, who cares? 1035 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: Who cares how well I'm being paid? Who cares that? 1036 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 2: Like I would be on Easy Street for the rest 1037 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 2: of my life if I just stayed here and said, Okay, 1038 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 2: whatever you guys want to do what, I'm fine with. 1039 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 2: But instead I'm like, fuck this, I'm gonna build my 1040 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 2: own thing, or I'm gonna make my own way, or 1041 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it the way I want to do it, 1042 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 2: and that can be you know, that can have like 1043 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 2: real world consequences. And then I'm like, you know, I'm 1044 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 2: just very impulsive, Like I'm just very prone to just 1045 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 2: do a thing, not just even the processing of like 1046 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 2: why not. 1047 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 3: I think these things are positives. They could go bad, 1048 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 3: and I'm sure they have at different points, but overall, 1049 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 3: it sounds like it sounds like a good way to 1050 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 3: think about things that you want to do. 1051 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 2: I did an interview with Kasey Nystad, who we should 1052 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 2: have on the show. I had him on my own podcast, 1053 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 2: and he's also a high school dropout. We're I think 1054 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 2: we're about the same age or very close in age. 1055 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 2: He's one of the few people I've met who's had 1056 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 2: a very similar life experience to my and where I mean. 1057 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 2: I think he's way way more successful than I am. 1058 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 2: But I haven't met that many people who are like 1059 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 2: nothing should have worked out, really, but like somehow I 1060 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 2: just like forced it to work. 1061 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's why, Like I have no good. 1062 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 2: Advice to give anybody, because none haven't made any sense, 1063 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 2: and yet here we. 1064 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,359 Speaker 3: Are it made perfect sense. And I do think there 1065 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,240 Speaker 3: is good advice. You don't have to like form the words. 1066 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's interesting. I'll be able to listen back to. 1067 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 3: This and be like, wait, by example, Yeah, I'm. 1068 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: Leading by example. What is the example? I don't know. 1069 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: Just fucking do it. Just go for it. Just do 1070 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,120 Speaker 1: it is my thing. 1071 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 2: Okay, my motto which I invented, you came up with that, 1072 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 2: I came up with, just do it. If you've heard 1073 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 2: it anywhere else, that's mine and they owe me money. 1074 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 2: We didn't even talk about my man Tucker Carlson, you know, 1075 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 2: and my boy. 1076 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 3: Don, Like I was going to tell you. In a 1077 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 3: meeting yesterday, I asked if anybody had any leads on 1078 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 3: people who would be good to talk about Tucker Carlson, 1079 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 3: And I said Tucker Max Carlson. Because my something some 1080 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 3: wires wrong. 1081 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: That's a brain. 1082 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 3: And I had been talking about Tucker Max earlier that day. 1083 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 2: The best thing I saw about the whole thing. Now, 1084 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 2: I mean, we're not we can't get into it. But 1085 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon were both fired on the 1086 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 2: same day, and somebody tweeted like they're doing a podcast 1087 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 2: and it like, honestly would be an amazing, amazing podcast 1088 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 2: that I would love to listen to. 1089 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe not love to listen to. 1090 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 2: I mean, fuck Tucker Carlson to hell, is my stat 1091 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 2: my stance on Tucker Carlson. So yeah, anyhow, maybe he'll 1092 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,240 Speaker 2: go back to the chicken ranch or farm or whatever 1093 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 2: whatever they have the chickens. 1094 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 1: Like the factory. 1095 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 2: I guess maybe he'll go back to wherever they make 1096 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 2: Animal X for swans and animal X. 1097 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: We talked about animal AX, right. No, oh, it's my 1098 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: favorite urban legend, Jenna. Have we talked about animal X? 1099 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,320 Speaker 2: No? This way I heard the story is you remember 1100 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 2: when Kentucky Fried Chicken changed their name officially to KFC. 1101 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1102 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 2: The the urban legend was they had to change their 1103 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 2: name so it didn't the word chicken because they use 1104 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 2: animal which is known as animal X. That is like 1105 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 2: a headless chicken with six wings. That that's how they 1106 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 2: produce all of their chicken in like some labs somewhere 1107 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 2: where they've got there's like that grown non chicken things 1108 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 2: and they're not legally allowed to call them chicken anyhow, 1109 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 2: great fucking story. No, it's a great it's a great story. 1110 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 2: Whatever brain came up with that particular urban legend is 1111 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 2: just an absolute fucking narrative. 1112 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: Genius. 1113 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like a great movie. And fried chicken 1114 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,880 Speaker 3: is my favorite food in the world, number one with 1115 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 3: a bullet. And I would eat animal X. 1116 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 2: You know, I try not to eat animals, but chicken 1117 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 2: is really good. I mean, I hate to hate to 1118 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 2: say it, I just do. I do think chicken tastes 1119 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 2: really good. I'm sorry, what, Jenna, why are you? What 1120 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 2: is going on? 1121 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 3: Like chicken? 1122 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: You don't like chicken? Are you vegetarian? 1123 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 3: I beef outing anything else? And I only do it 1124 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 3: because I need protein. 1125 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 2: You're like sick, you're sick from that you have chicken. 1126 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 2: You should not look into how they produce like it's 1127 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 2: not great, man, it's not a lot better. 1128 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 3: It's all bad. It's all about. 1129 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 2: Well that is the show for this week. I guess, 1130 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 2: like what happened is is Lyrah quizmy on my career. 1131 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,240 Speaker 2: Now everybody knows everything. Now I can't write my book. 1132 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 3: I think this was a great pitch for your book. 1133 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 2: I actually had an agent at one point. He was like, 1134 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 2: you should write a This sounds really egotistical. She was like, 1135 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 2: you should write like an autobiography, like your life's interesting. 1136 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, like is it like I 1137 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 2: was like, I'm not sure there's that much there. But 1138 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 2: then I have thought about it. Maybe someday I'll write 1139 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 2: a book. 1140 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. 1141 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,840 Speaker 3: You know who ghost writes memoirs? 1142 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:43,359 Speaker 1: Who? 1143 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:44,720 Speaker 3: Tucker Max? 1144 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: Tucker Maxwell, I will not be. 1145 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 3: Working very successful. He did, Tiffany hattishes, he does all 1146 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:51,399 Speaker 3: the celebrity members. 1147 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,920 Speaker 1: Maybe I should talk to Tucker Max. 1148 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 3: Should talk to Tucker Max. 1149 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: I forget his claim to fame. He's like a misogynist 1150 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 1: or I hope they serve beer in hell. Oh right, right. 1151 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 2: He was like I'm a bad guy. Me and my 1152 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 2: bros Are bad or something. It was like that kind 1153 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 2: of book, right. 1154 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I ate that ship really love. I thought 1155 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 3: he was the funniest guy on the planet. 1156 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:10,799 Speaker 1: Is he like a pooah guy? 1157 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 3: Is he like a no, No, he's like I mean, 1158 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 3: he's just a nact. I mean, he's just you know whatever. 1159 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 3: He's a conventionally handsome, rat bro looking guy, Like he 1160 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 3: didn't have any pua element to him. He just was like, 1161 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 3: they come to me thing. 1162 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: I've always wondered what it'd be like to be very handsome. 1163 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: That would be very cool. I think I. 1164 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 3: Disagree with the handsome assessment of this guy. 1165 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 2: Really, I think conventionally no, No, We've had this conversation before. 1166 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,760 Speaker 2: There are like people who think Adam Driver is handsome, 1167 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 2: But in the real world, if you met Adam Driver, 1168 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 2: most people, if Adam Driver was an Adam Driver, most 1169 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,720 Speaker 2: people would be like, that guy is a weird creep. 1170 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 2: I do not think he's handsome, Whereas like most people 1171 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 2: would look like Chris Hemsworth and be like, oh, yeah, 1172 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:52,799 Speaker 2: that dude's a hunk. 1173 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 3: So anyhow, you know, your talent and personality or that's right, 1174 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 3: that's right, incredibly huge factors attractiveness. 1175 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 2: My factor has been just being able to talk people 1176 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 2: to death, just so just wear them down, tell them that. 1177 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,319 Speaker 3: They're gonna die for the answers, and they're like, well, 1178 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 3: I only have six months to live. I should see 1179 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 3: what happened. 1180 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,839 Speaker 2: Might as well just hang out with this guy right 1181 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 2: here anyhow. Okay, So we'll be back next week with 1182 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,440 Speaker 2: more what future, and maybe maybe our guests won't cancel 1183 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 2: on us and we won't have to do yet another 1184 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 2: episode where I tell my life story, though there's a 1185 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 2: lot I think there are a lot of tales. 1186 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,360 Speaker 3: I like the idea of doing it, doing your same 1187 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 3: life story every week, but you just are forced to 1188 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 3: get more and more in depth, more just. 1189 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 2: More detail on specific moments, just like meetings that I 1190 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,319 Speaker 2: had with people, or phone calls that I our long 1191 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 2: phone calls. Well, anyhow, So that's that's it, and we'll 1192 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,560 Speaker 2: be back next weekend as always. I guess I suppose 1193 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,480 Speaker 2: I wish you and your family the very best, but 1194 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 2: I don't know you or your family. So is it 1195 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,319 Speaker 2: worth it? Are you worth it? Think about that? Stew 1196 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 2: on that until the next episode, Even under the w