1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

5
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

6
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,079
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

7
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

9
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

10
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment. Well,

11
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

12
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: about Etho's life. They can provide you with peace of

13
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: mind knowing your family is protected even if the worst

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,160
Speaker 1: comes to pass. Ethos is an online platform that makes

15
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: getting life insurance fast and easy, all designed to protect

16
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: your family's future in minutes, not months. There's no complicated

17
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 1: process and it's one hundred percent online. There's no medical

18
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: exam require you just answer a few health questions online.

19
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:00,640
Speaker 1: You can get a quote and it's a little ten minutes,

20
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: and you can get same day coverage without ever leaving

21
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,759
Speaker 1: your home. You can get up to three million dollars

22
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: in coverage and some policies start as low as two

23
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 1: dollars a day that would be billed monthly. As of

24
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

25
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect

26
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 1: your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free

27
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 1: quoted Ethos dot com slash chuck. So again, that's Ethos

28
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary, and the

29
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 1: rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life

30
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,560
Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about, especially if

31
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. Hello, They're happy Thursday, and

32
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast. I've got

33
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 1: a fascinating interview today with somebody who's been in politics

34
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 1: a long time. And for some of you who be

35
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 1: a familiar name and others you might say, oh, I

36
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: haven't heard from him in a while. It's Jack dan Forth.

37
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 1: He was a long time I'm senator from the state

38
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: of Missouri, very much a sort of kind of would

39
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,640
Speaker 1: I would have referred to him as almost like Bob Dole,

40
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 1: not quite mister Republican, but close. And in fact, he

41
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,799
Speaker 1: runs a project now that essentially about trying to recapture

42
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 1: the Republican Party, away from away from Donald Trump, away

43
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,720
Speaker 1: from the Mega movement, but in particular the reason he

44
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: wanted to have a conversation with me. And by the way,

45
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,799
Speaker 1: you'll hear when I tell you he's eighty nine years old.

46
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: You most of you will be surprised. And I think

47
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 1: all of you will hope that you are is nimble,

48
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,799
Speaker 1: and is and is smart, and is coherent and is

49
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, on top of things, as Senator dan Forth

50
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,960
Speaker 1: is in our conversation, it is you'd forget that it's

51
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: been nearly thirty years since he's been in the Senate.

52
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel that when you have that conversation with him.

53
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 1: But those that know Jack dan Forth, well, he's always

54
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 1: been on this. He's, like I said, a very much

55
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 1: a you know, when George W. Bush used the phrase

56
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,119
Speaker 1: compassionate conservative, I think that's exactly what Jack dan Forth

57
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,239
Speaker 1: would have described his type of conservatism. He's an episcopal

58
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,959
Speaker 1: he was an ordained episcopal priest, so his faith is

59
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,880
Speaker 1: very important to him and he's believed that faith in

60
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 1: general can be a unifier. But he's deeply troubled by

61
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,519
Speaker 1: the lack of empathy in this version of the Republican Party.

62
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 1: He's also troubled by the loss of the definition of conservative.

63
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 1: It struck me in many ways, like versions of conversations

64
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,360
Speaker 1: I've had with George Will over the last couple of

65
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 1: years since the Trump era of court. George will famously

66
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 1: left the Republican Party and said it's no longer a

67
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: conservative party. So he left and registered reregistered as an independent.

68
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 1: But the biggest thing that disturbs him is the character

69
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: and decency aspect of the Trump movement. And it actually

70
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 1: I did the interview a couple of days ago before

71
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: the President made it is just heinous remarks about Somalian

72
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 1: immigrants at that cabinet meeting earlier this week, and it

73
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,359
Speaker 1: was one of those moments and where you know, I know,

74
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: we're all exhausted from outrage, right, and there's this collective

75
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: you feel it in sort of the legacy press corps. Look,

76
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,839
Speaker 1: I can tell you Mayan, You're like, oh God, really,

77
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: here he goes again. And my immediate reaction was public's

78
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: not going to care. They're going to shrug their shoulders.

79
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: But then I sat there and said, no, I think

80
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 1: the public does care. They just don't know how to

81
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,960
Speaker 1: express it. Anymore. Right, We don't know, we don't quite

82
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 1: know how to right. You know, the inability to shame

83
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: people in the Trump era has taken away I think

84
00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: the public's best tool to keep politicians from totally misbehaving.

85
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of this. But you'll hear

86
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: this in the conversation with Jack Danforth and we'll get

87
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 1: to it. I've got a few other things on there.

88
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,720
Speaker 1: But to me, it really dovetails well with this conversation

89
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,479
Speaker 1: with what the president's behavior because he asked this question

90
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 1: and he really believes if you took it to the voters.

91
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm a little more skeptical about this, but he believes

92
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: if you basically say, is this who we are? Is

93
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 1: this who you want to be? Essentially holding up examples

94
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:36,000
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump attacking people, calling reporters piggy, particularly the

95
00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 1: harsh words he uses for any woman that pushes back

96
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 1: on him, what he says about anybody who's not white,

97
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,960
Speaker 1: who's an immigrant in this country, the dehumanizing and demeaning way,

98
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, using the word garbage. I mean, this is

99
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 1: this is what inspires hate attacks on members of various

100
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,600
Speaker 1: immigrant communities. Is when you have somebody with a platform

101
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump has referring to the referring to people

102
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: in this dehumanizing way. And you know, this is where

103
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: I share in some ways Dandforth's optimism in that I

104
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,919
Speaker 1: don't believe a majority of Americans want or accept behavior

105
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,720
Speaker 1: that the President showed this week. Now we've had this

106
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,599
Speaker 1: conversations before. He has, you know, demeaned people with disabilities.

107
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: He has mocked you know, where does it end. Right,

108
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: He mocked John McCain for being a prisoner of war

109
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 1: during Vietnam. His his he's called soldiers suckers and losers,

110
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,320
Speaker 1: those that died in battle and combat because, as he

111
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 1: essentially is making clear, he wouldn't have allowed himself to

112
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,480
Speaker 1: be stuck having to fight in the military and be drafted.

113
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 1: Pick whichever foot you want to pick to find out

114
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: whether he can, whether he was eligible or not for

115
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 1: the draft, or whether his deferment was honest. But he

116
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 1: wasn't alone on that, and so that's why it hasn't

117
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 1: been a penalty. But this is why I'm a I

118
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: used the phrase Trump fatigue, and that I think Trump

119
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 1: fatigue is a much more is a much bigger accelerant

120
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 1: to what I think is going to be a tough

121
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 1: election in a tough political environment for Republicans in twenty

122
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: six that there's just an exhaustion from Trump's antics and

123
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: the more and in some ways right, we're on reruns,

124
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: but we're on like crappy ring runs. You're like, I

125
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 1: don't want to watch this show again. I don't want

126
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 1: to see another version of this again. You know, I'll

127
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,160
Speaker 1: confess it makes me even angrier. It's sort of how

128
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: poor Biden led this country. I'm sorry, I do. I

129
00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: hope that a better leader would have would have helped

130
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 1: the country move on from Donald Trump, but we didn't

131
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,480
Speaker 1: have that, and we are where we are. But there

132
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: are moments like this week where you're like, I can't

133
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 1: I can't believe we went back to this because I

134
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: don't think individually anybody that that a large man. And

135
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 1: perhaps you know this is this has been a question

136
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 1: that I've had uncomfortable conversations with people I trust. Perhaps

137
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,080
Speaker 1: some of you out there have had similar that you know,

138
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 1: I've used the phrase others We're not this way, this

139
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: is not who we are. What if it is right?

140
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,440
Speaker 1: What if we're in the minority, what if the deed,

141
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,840
Speaker 1: what if there is such a belief and I and

142
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 1: I do. I've had conversations with people who I think

143
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 1: are high character people who shrug their shoulders at Trump's behavior,

144
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 1: and they shrugged their shoulders for a variety of reasons.

145
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,680
Speaker 1: One is they believe, Hey, politics is a tough business.

146
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,319
Speaker 1: You kind of need an asshole in there. I think

147
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 1: a lot of you no voters like that who are

148
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: so cynical about how politics works, so cynical about Washington,

149
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,080
Speaker 1: and I understand it. But what I try to remind

150
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: people is that the cynicism that is driving the Trump

151
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,839
Speaker 1: movement about Washington is a perception that while there are

152
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 1: nuggets of reality, for the most part, this isn't what

153
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: it is. But eventually perception does but become reality because

154
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 1: we have seen in the Trump era, Donald Trump has

155
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:32,959
Speaker 1: mainstream kleptocracy.

156
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 2: Right.

157
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 1: The idea that Washington is for sale is not controversial.

158
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 1: It's just how you do business. Every fortune five hundred

159
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 1: company in America knows that if they want favorable treatment

160
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 1: from government regulators, there's an easy way to do this.

161
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: You don't have to go to Congress, you don't have

162
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: to go to the agency. You go to Donald Trump

163
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 1: and you simply say what can you do about this?

164
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: And by the way, we'd love to become a tributor

165
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,000
Speaker 1: to pick whatever slush fund he's got going on. Maybe

166
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 1: it's a public sector slush fund like the East Wing

167
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,559
Speaker 1: building or his inaugural fund, or maybe it's his library

168
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And you know, I say, I

169
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 1: don't say this to just throw it out there. This

170
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: is a fact. I'm just telling you. This is currently

171
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 1: how the influence game in Washington is working. It is

172
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 1: so efficient right now because there is there's no complicating factor.

173
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,959
Speaker 1: Everybody knows if you're right, a big enough check and

174
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,959
Speaker 1: you get in front of him, you can get whatever

175
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,719
Speaker 1: you want. Right Look at the pardon situation. I mean,

176
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,719
Speaker 1: he just pardoned this pardon of the former president of

177
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,560
Speaker 1: Honduras who was a massive cocaine trafficker. I mean, this

178
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 1: is one of those where and if you've noticed, nobody

179
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: is defending this publicly, and quite a few Republicans are

180
00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 1: expressing discomfort with this one and are going ahead when

181
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 1: caught by reporters with sticking the microphone in their face.

182
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: Aren't willing to just ignore this one, aren't willing to

183
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,200
Speaker 1: just say well, Trump's Trump are actually going this Now,

184
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: this certainly sends a mixed message, given supposedly the focus

185
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 1: of what we're up to with Maduro and in Venezuela.

186
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is the former president

187
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,400
Speaker 1: of Honduras had figured out the game, so he hires

188
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 1: roger Stone, pays him, and roger Stone gets in front

189
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 1: of the president and a base probably calls in a

190
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 1: favor or two. You know, who knows how much the

191
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,440
Speaker 1: price was, right, We don't have any transparency on that.

192
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,559
Speaker 1: We have transparency on the pardon itself. We have transparency

193
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 1: on the on the request for the pardon from from

194
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 1: the former president himself, but we don't know how much

195
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 1: he paid. Essentially an influencer, which roger Stone essentially is

196
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: a I don't even know if he would have to

197
00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 1: register to lobby I might argue, did he violate I'm

198
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 1: curious if if this is since he's representing a foreigner

199
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 1: in this pardon request, whether he filled out the proper paperwork,

200
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,960
Speaker 1: which many a lobbyist has failed to do, which actually

201
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 1: is a crime if you didn't register as a foreign agent.

202
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: Whether somebody would have to register as a foreign agent

203
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,360
Speaker 1: in order to represent that given I think that at

204
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 1: a minimum, given that Roger Stone back in the days

205
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 1: of black Manift and Stone, since they kind of invented,

206
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,679
Speaker 1: or certainly they didn't invent the influence game, but they

207
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 1: certainly expanded the reach of the influence game when they

208
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,280
Speaker 1: had when they first came to prominence in the eighties

209
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 1: during the Reagan era. He knows the rules. So my

210
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: guess is if on this front he likely followed them,

211
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 1: filled out the correct paperwork because he doesn't care if

212
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,719
Speaker 1: he's fingered as a foreign lobbyist. He's not running for

213
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: office or he's not going to be up for any

214
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,320
Speaker 1: Senate confirmed position. But the point is is that we

215
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 1: it is, it is we all know how this works,

216
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 1: and it is it is that sort of craven on

217
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 1: that front. And you know what point? And I do

218
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 1: think that there is this This is where I believe

219
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,560
Speaker 1: the exhaustion comes in in that when you talk to

220
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: people individually, many of who may be Trump supporters, and

221
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,960
Speaker 1: you ask ask them if this is something that they

222
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,080
Speaker 1: would want to support in a politician, they'd all say no.

223
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,439
Speaker 1: And then when you ask them why do they tolerate

224
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 1: it in Trump? It is they will come back to

225
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 1: this perception that somehow well politics is a dirty business,

226
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 1: and you kind of need a dirty representative sometimes in

227
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,240
Speaker 1: order to accomplish this. The problem is, this is exactly

228
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 1: what Donald Trump wants people to think, and he's trying.

229
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean, and this to me is the explanation of

230
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: how did Henry quay Are, a Democratic Member of Congress

231
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: from South Texas, end up getting a pardon from Donald Trump.

232
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 1: You know, there are certain crimes that the Justice Department

233
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 1: prosecutes that Donald Trump doesn't think should be criminal, you know,

234
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:15,119
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, being influenced. He essentially pardons anybody

235
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 1: who commits a crime that he is committing. So I

236
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 1: guess you could say is at least he's being generous

237
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 1: with that, right, Henry Quaart took money out of being

238
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 1: to be influenced. Well, Donald Trump is taking money all

239
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,800
Speaker 1: over the place and being influenced to sign pardons, to

240
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: agree to grease the wheels on regulation, to look the

241
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 1: other way on a merger and acquisition. I mean, look

242
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 1: look at the game they're playing with the with Warner

243
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 1: Brothers right now. I'm following this pretty closely. This is

244
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,840
Speaker 1: a former employer with Comcasts trying to get their hands

245
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: on Warner Brothers. Netflix, and then of course there's you know,

246
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 1: what's the future of CNN since that's part of the

247
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers organization. Is the Ellison family going to become

248
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 1: essentially the new m and they're going to consolidate and

249
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: try to control as much of the news ecosystem as

250
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 1: they can with CNN and CBS. In any normal administration,

251
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: there's no way any of these mergers could happen. Netflix

252
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't get regulatory approval, Comcasts wouldn't get regulatory approval, neither

253
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: would Warner Brothers. Already we're seeing that the administration is

254
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: raising eyebrows about Netflix, raising eyebrows about Comcast because of

255
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 1: the President not liking Brian Robertson still mad over all

256
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 1: things NBC, MSNBC. Trust me on this one. His obsession

257
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 1: over Comcast is all about his failure as host of

258
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 1: The Apprentice. Okay, that's what this is about. His leftover

259
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,920
Speaker 1: anger at NBC is that. Trust me. I've heard it

260
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 1: a million times from him. He believed that show was

261
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 1: much more successful than it actually was because he used

262
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,720
Speaker 1: to say things, you know, the Apprentice pays your salary,

263
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't think so, brother, but you

264
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 1: keep telling yourself that, so there's this weird sort of

265
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 1: he's so angry at NBC that he's just going to

266
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: punish comcasts. Right, it's it's really less about NBC News

267
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: and MSNBC. It really is all about the Apprentice. It's

268
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 1: also his anger with Jeff Zucker, Right, It's weirdly it

269
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 1: all comes back to it. You know, You've got to remember, ultimately,

270
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: if he's got a grievance, it's usually something personal and

271
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 1: in this case, uh, it's it's it's about the apprentice

272
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 1: because obviously the Apprentice has become part of his identity.

273
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: But when you're watching this, the government's plain favorites. They're

274
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 1: basically saying, look, there won't be any regulatory you know,

275
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 1: shouting basically at Warner Brothers shareholders and the board of directors. Listen,

276
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: if you take the Ellison deal, won't be a problem

277
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: at all. You decide you wanna you wanna greenlight a

278
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 1: acquisition by Netflix or Comcast, well you know there's going

279
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 1: to be a lot of regulatory interest in looking at

280
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 1: this deal. This may take a year, maybe it takes

281
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: two years. How long. Maybe the value suddenly goes down

282
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 1: and and and this doesn't happen and et cetera. Now,

283
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see if if the private sector can

284
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 1: kentuck business based on the private sector without government interference.

285
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,239
Speaker 1: But it seems that Donald Trump wants to decide who

286
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 1: gets to own Warner Brothers in CNN, and so here

287
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,199
Speaker 1: we are. This is what's really striking to me is

288
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,719
Speaker 1: how normal this is all being portrayed, that this is

289
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 1: just Trump's Washington. This is how it works. You know,

290
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: the pardon of Henry Quayart, you know where nobody's even

291
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 1: blinking at this point about him once again likely selling

292
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 1: a parton I mean, now let's see what what what

293
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 1: was the price for Henry Quaar? Is it a party switch? Right?

294
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,439
Speaker 1: Do we see that in the next Is it a

295
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:53,199
Speaker 1: promise to party switch if they need that vote to

296
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 1: control the House of Representatives? Who knows? Right, But let's

297
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 1: just say Donald Trump has leverage over Henry Klar. Now

298
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: I question obviously, you know Quaar was in a was

299
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: was vulnerable to a deal like this, and and this

300
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 1: is what Trump does. This is just like the mafia,

301
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,959
Speaker 1: right it is. You know it's a kid. I used

302
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: to tell a version of this story, you know, so

303
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:27,120
Speaker 1: a criminal, criminal organization comes into a shopping district and says, hey,

304
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 1: good news, we've got some we're we're you know, we're

305
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 1: going to be able to provide security for you now.

306
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: And you, as the shopkeeper, say, well, I didn't. I

307
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 1: didn't ask for any new security. Oh so you don't

308
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 1: want any security for your shop? Well, anyway, if you

309
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 1: do want security, this is what it's going to cause.

310
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: And then the next morning the shopkeeper comes back and

311
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: he sees that his store has been ransacked. And then

312
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: the criminal element comes back to the ShopKeep the next

313
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,120
Speaker 1: day and he says, so you said you didn't need security,

314
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,639
Speaker 1: do you think you need security? Now? That's how a

315
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: criminal syndicate creates leverage over and honest that somebody who

316
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 1: might want to be honest, and suddenly there in between

317
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: a rock and a hard place. Do you hate hangovers?

318
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye to hangovers. Out of Office gives you

319
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: the social buzz without the next day regret. They're best selling.

320
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: Out of Office gummies were designed to provide a mild,

321
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: relaxing buzz, boost your mood and enhance creativity and relaxation.

322
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,199
Speaker 1: With five different strengths, you can tailor the dose to

323
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: fit your vibe from a gentle one point five milligram

324
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 1: micro dose to their newest fifteen milligram gummy for a

325
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: more elevated experience. Their THHC beverages and gummies are a modern,

326
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 1: mindful alternative to a glass of wine or a cocktail.

327
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you this, I've given up booze. I

328
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 1: don't like the hangovers. I prefer the gummy experience. Soul

329
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 1: is a wellness brand that believes feeling good should be

330
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: fun and easy. Soul specializes in delicious hemp derived THHC

331
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: and CBD products, all designed to boost your mood and

332
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 1: simply help you unwine. So if you struggle to switch

333
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 1: off at night, so all so as a variety of

334
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: products specifically designed to just simply help you get a

335
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: better night's sleep, including their top selling sleepy gummies. It's

336
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: a fan favorite for deep restorative sleep. So bring on

337
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: the good vibes and treat yourself to Soul today. Right now,

338
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 1: Soul is offering my audience thirty percent off your entire order.

339
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: So go to get sold dot Com use the promo

340
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 1: code todcast. Don't forget that code that's get sold dot

341
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: Com promo code toodcast for thirty percent off your Henry

342
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: quare whether you maybe you believe you're innocent, maybe you

343
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: did commit a crime, but you certainly have this hanging

344
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: over your head. There comes Donald Trump, he doesn't do

345
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 1: these things or zero. So I think we're all just

346
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: wondering what is you know, what is it that Henry

347
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: Kuayar has either agreed to or perhaps Donald Trump hasn't

348
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: called in his favor yet. But the point is is

349
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,479
Speaker 1: that this is this is now everyday business. And this

350
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 1: is kind of the point. It goes back to, wy

351
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: are we so numb when the president of the United

352
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 1: States attacks fellow human beings and calls them garbage? Why

353
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: are we so numb when one of the largest cocaine

354
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: traffickers in the history of this country is set free

355
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: due to a presidential pardon? Why are we so numb

356
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: when a foreign country hands a nearly billion dollar plane

357
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: personal gift to the president and in return gets a

358
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: NATO like security agreement for a country that is not

359
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: necessarily worked in America's best interest. When it comes to

360
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: Afghanistan or Israel or other parts in the Middle East,

361
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: we're just shrugging our shoulders and I look at the

362
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: pardon situation. So again to sort of circle it back

363
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: to why I do think while the individual items here

364
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: don't cause the political feeding frenzy and don't create this

365
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 1: sort of moment of pressure, and I'll get to why

366
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: I think that isn't happening for a variety of reasons.

367
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: I do think now that with this crummy economy, sort

368
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: of exhaustion from ten years of this, that this stuff

369
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: doesn't play well the way he thinks it plays well.

370
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: And so you have a base of his party that's

371
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: sort of tired of the same old antics and exhausted

372
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: from having to somehow rationalize their support for him when

373
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 1: he couldn't be a more low life character morally or

374
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: ethically right. If any other politician behave this way, particularly

375
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: if they had a D next to their name, all

376
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: of these Republicans that are looking the other way on

377
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: Donald Trump would be filing articles of impeachment. The only

378
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 1: upside out of this pardon business is that I do

379
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: think we're going to reform. There's I think in the

380
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: next ten years there's going to be a constitutional amendment

381
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 1: that puts some guardrails around presidential pardons, perhaps creates a

382
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: pardon board where the president is not the final say,

383
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: but is part of a group that has a final say.

384
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: But what is happening now is just totally delegitimizing the

385
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: Justice Department as a whole. I mean, this guy. And

386
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: you know what was funny is the new the US

387
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: attorney in charge of the of the Sovereign District of

388
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: New York, the Southern District of New York, right, perhaps

389
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: the most important district within the Justice Department, arguably its

390
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: own many Justice Department. That's who prosecuted this, this former

391
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: Hundorn president. And oh, by the way, the prosecution actually

392
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: happened during the Trumpet first Trump administration. He was finally

393
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: extra guided in the United States, and the sentencing took

394
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: place during the Biden era. So there's not even this

395
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: way makes this even more of a head scratcher. Right,

396
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: This was an investigation and a prosecution that in theory

397
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: started and took place during Trump's first term, was completed

398
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: during Biden's term. And now Trump obviously has decided, you know,

399
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: he will decide who gets punished, and he will decide

400
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: who gets set free. This is the stuff that I

401
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: think is the is the extra anchor that is going

402
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: to drag Republicans down because it's it works two ways.

403
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: It demoralizes sort of Trump supporters that are like, you know,

404
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, my kids keep asking me, you know, why

405
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: I vote for him? How do I defend you know,

406
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: him attacking fellow human beings and calling them garbage and

407
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: all of this corruption with the pardons, and oh, by

408
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: the way, the economy sucks.

409
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: Right.

410
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: That's why I think this is this is real weight

411
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: this time, and that this isn't something that's going to

412
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: go away. But there is another reason why this stuff

413
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: isn't sticking in the immediate and that is the fragmentation

414
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: of the US media. I mean, take the take the

415
00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: current situation at the Pentagon. So HAIG SATs successfully essentially

416
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: got rid of the professional journalists from covering the Pentagon

417
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: because they you know, forced some you know, frankly something

418
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: that was against the First Amendment. I don't think was

419
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: constitutional what they did. I you know, I got to

420
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: think there's going to be a a I think having

421
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: to sign that sign that is unconstitutional, and I got

422
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: to think there's going to be a lawsuit that has

423
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: some success on this. I'm not active in the First

424
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: Amendment legal community because I'm not a lawyer, but if

425
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: I were, that certainly would be something I'd be advocating

426
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: and would be working on. But you know, so now

427
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: it's a whole bunch of you know, influencers. Right, You've

428
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: got lawer Lumer, you got that white that sort of

429
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: want to be white suprobate. There's a poor man's Tucker Carlson,

430
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: what's his name, Jack pro probacyak or whatever, sort of

431
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: a truly sort of irrational clown. And you know they're

432
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: also kind of sickopantea. But it says, you know, hag

433
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: Seth hasn't had to face a barrage of questions.

434
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: Right.

435
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: We even have this new Inspector General report out that

436
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: says exactly what everybody said he did during Signal Gate,

437
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: which is he risked the lives of folks involved in

438
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: that mission. Yes, he technically had the power to declassify

439
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: those things, but apparently he could not come up with

440
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: the could not come up with paperwork or prove that

441
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: he had done anything to declassified other than I guess

442
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: magically thinking about it in his head. It's kind of

443
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 1: like the Donald Trump defense during the during that investigation

444
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: of the classified documents that he had just said, I

445
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: just thought about declassifying it, so therefore they're declassified. But two,

446
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: but you look at the fact that there's no sort

447
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: of media pressure on hag Seth the way we would

448
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: have had twenty years ago, right where you've had. If

449
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: any of you remember Bobby ray Enman, who was a

450
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: nominee for Defense Secretary during Clinton, had some things in

451
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: his background, it became kind of a feeding frenzy and

452
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: he was ended up, uh pulling the nomination. We don't

453
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: have these moments because we have such a fragmented media.

454
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: I think if if part if, if if we had

455
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: the less splintered media and you had more of a

456
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: and everybody were focused on what's going on with pardons,

457
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: it would create I think national urgency. It would force

458
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: attention and there I think then you would have more

459
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 1: members of Congress, regardless of party, being forced to go

460
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: on the record on how they feel about these things.

461
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: But we don't have that right now. Because this is

462
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: another thing. In some ways Trump has accelerated this, but

463
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: his attacks on the mainstream press to delegitimize the mainstream press,

464
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: and he's done a terrific job of doing this. You know,

465
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: the help of a of a legacy entity like Fox

466
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: News Who's who who sort of character assassinated many a

467
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: journalist in their day. By doing all of this fragmenting

468
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: it's it makes it so no one thing becomes the

469
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: focal point for the for the sort of entire political

470
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: press court. I would argue these pardons are among the

471
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: most criminal things we've had a president do. In fact,

472
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna one of my tododcast time Machine is

473
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: going to uh stories as soon as the anniversaries come up,

474
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: is going to be about the story of Lamar Alexander

475
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: having to be sworn in early as governor of Tennessee

476
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: because the person he was replacing was literally selling pardons

477
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: as he was out the door, and it was such

478
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: that Democrats joined Republicans and and essentially impeach getting rid

479
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: of the guy. It it happened in the seventies. I

480
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: will have the more of the details, but the basic

481
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: story was the Tennessee Legislature, which was Democratic controlled, essentially

482
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: they accelerated the timeline to swear in Lamar Alexander to

483
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: stop the outgoing governor from selling pardons. It's actually how

484
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Fred Thompson got his acting career because they did a

485
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: movie about this loosely, and the movie maker couldn't find

486
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: anybody to play Fred Thompson, who was the lawyer at

487
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: the time for Lamar Alexander during during this period. So

488
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: Fred Thompson played himself and lo and behold, it started

489
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: a career. But the point was, there was a time

490
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: when selling pardons like Donald Trump is doing with something

491
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: that outraged left and right, that it was just this

492
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: isn't what you do in a free country. This isn't

493
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: what you do in a democracy, and if you do

494
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: do it, it's criminal and it should be stopped. And

495
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: I think the lack of focus, the frag mened media,

496
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: right there isn't this one. And he does plenty of

497
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: things that que the outrage, right, the attack on Somali immigrants,

498
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: what he does to elin Omar all the time, how

499
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: he goes after personally goes after people that in some

500
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: ways there's distractions, Right, Venezuela story is a big story.

501
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: So maybe the pardon, you know, takes a back seat.

502
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: And it's not new, right, Donald Trump selling a pardon

503
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: is no longer a shock anymore. And look, Joe Biden

504
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: didn't help the pardon story. When he did his versions

505
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: of preemptive pardons and gave all these pardons to his

506
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: family members, it's to me one of the just worst

507
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: things he could have done, because he essentially provided a

508
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: provided cover and a permission slip for Donald Trump to

509
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: abuse the process even further. And look, I'm no fan

510
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: of what about ism, but when you can give your

511
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: opponent material that allows them to say what about then

512
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: you're not in the best place on that front. But

513
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: I do think we've totally are under we're under angered

514
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: by this pardon situation, and I don't think we fully

515
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: appreciate the long term impact this is going to have

516
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: on our ability to convince another country to combat corruption,

517
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: our ability to convince another country to extradite bad actors

518
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: that we want to prosecute because our rule of law

519
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: is so ironclad and so well respected. He is totally

520
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: damaged the perception of America as an honest place for

521
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: the rule of law, and that has long that can

522
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: have a long tail effect that makes businesses less comfortable

523
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: doing business in this country. Right. One of the reasons

524
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: why we're supposed to be a safe haven to start

525
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: a business or bring money into here is is the

526
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: strength of our rule of law? But if it is

527
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: now this manipulable. And that's the thing, Like, are the

528
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: people that follow Donald Trump, if we we are not

529
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: outraged by the selling of pardons in this administration, are

530
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: we going to be outraged when the next president decides

531
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: to do it. So our inability collectively to enforce some

532
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: sort of guardrail on this, to seek to to sort

533
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: of I mean it is it has become so normal

534
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: for him to do this that it's being treated like

535
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: another plane landing safely at National Airport. And I'm just

536
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: here to tell you that, you know, to repeat an

537
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: old Bob doleism, where's the outrage? There should be real

538
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: outrage here. You know, I've spent a lot of time

539
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: on pardons on this my podcast, but hey, I know

540
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm part of the fragmentation now. But this is an

541
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: extraordinarily important story. And if you're somebody with some influence

542
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: listening to this, know, I don't. I don't think there's

543
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: any over selling the importance of what we're seeing take

544
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: place in the in the slow destruction of what the

545
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: United States of America is supposed to represent when it

546
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: comes to the rule of law. When it comes to freedom,

547
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: when it comes to honesty, what he is eroding, you

548
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: don't just automatically get it back when he walks out

549
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: the door. And certainly if JD. Vance is his successor

550
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: or somebody, they're going to see what he got away with.

551
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: And we know this. Every president sees what a previous

552
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: president gets away with and tries it a little bit

553
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: more themselves. We've yet to see a president voluntarily give

554
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: up power, voluntarily like give you know, hand power back

555
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: that We've heard rhetoric claiming they would, but they're never

556
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: signing legislation that would. So it's going to probably take

557
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: a constantutiontional amendment. But this what we're seeing with the pardon,

558
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: with the use of the pardons, this is dictatorial. This

559
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: is the one dictatorial power he actually has, and he

560
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: is I don't think every anybody realizes how much damage

561
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: this is going to do to us long term, to

562
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: the rule of law. To pay to play in this town. Uh,

563
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: it is, it is. It is the you know, the

564
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: next stop on the road to losing this republic is

565
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: going to a full on kleptocracy. Right now, it's the

566
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: Trump's Republican Party that's the leptocracy where everything's paid a play.

567
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: But this will get contagious and may already have gotten contagious,

568
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: very very quickly. So that brings me to my guest,

569
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sneak in a break here. But when we

570
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: come back former Missouri Senator Law long time and we talk,

571
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: we go by the way. We spend a lot of

572
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: time on essentially what he's trying to do, which is

573
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: reclaim the conservative movement, try to reform the Republican Party.

574
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: He will tell you he tried the third party. In fact,

575
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: he supported a third party candidate for the US Senate

576
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: in Missouri last cycle. He's gone down that road. He

577
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: doesn't think that that's a successful road. So at this point,

578
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: his core goal right now is to sort of wake

579
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: people up on the character front. Right. As I joked

580
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: with him, I said, maybe you need to make your

581
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: slogan make America decent again. But that's what he's that

582
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: and I think there's nobody that has more credibility on

583
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: that that I can think of in my thirty years

584
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: of covering politics than Jack dan Forth. So with that,

585
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I'll sneak at a break and when we come back,

586
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: Jack dan Forth on the other side, I'll do a

587
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: little Q and A and let's just say I have

588
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: a few things to say about the college football playoff invitation.

589
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

590
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: there's a reason. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

591
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

592
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

593
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

594
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

595
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

596
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

597
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

598
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

599
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

600
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

601
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

602
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer, You need somebody

603
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for the People dot Com,

604
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: Slash podcast or Dow Pound Law Pound five two nine

605
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: Law on your cell phone. And remember all law firms

606
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: are not the same. So check out Morgan and Morgan.

607
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. So joining me

608
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: now is who's frankly has got the passion that I'm

609
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: trying to bring to this podcast, and you know, which

610
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: is to focus on how do we get out of

611
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: this current mess we're in. We all know we're in

612
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: a mess. We have disagreements about why we're polarized. We

613
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: have disagreements about whether the current situation is sort of

614
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: a symptom of something larger, or whether the current actors

615
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: are the problems themselves. I've obviously been focused on the

616
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: media side of things. My guest today is a very

617
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: familiar name to those of you that are political junkies,

618
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: Jack dan Forth, former Republican senator from Missouri, an episcopal priest.

619
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: And I bring that up because, as you know, as

620
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: many of my listeners know, Senator, I've been yearning for

621
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: what I call for a pastor for patriotism. I feel

622
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: like America needs somebody to help us. They're just sort

623
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: of renewed civics and renew sort of what we understood

624
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: America to be. That it was an idea it's not

625
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: an ethnicity, it's not there's not a religious thing. And

626
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: and boy, there's nobody that could speak better to this moment.

627
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: I wish you were thirty years younger right now, and

628
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: let's run you for president, right trust me, we all

629
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: want to.

630
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 2: Be twenty at three other reasons.

631
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so, but your your focus is trying to

632
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: rehabilitate the Republican Party. Walk me through what your focus is.

633
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess the broad picture is pretty

634
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: much as you presented. I think that a great purpose

635
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: of America has been simply to hold ourselves together as

636
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: one nation, with all of our differences, with all of

637
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: our conflicting opinions, but to hold ourselves together, and right

638
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: now we're coming apart, and to hold ourselves together means

639
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 2: to me to restore that part of the country which

640
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: is a venue for bringing us together. Part of that,

641
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: I think is restoring the role of Congress. Congress was

642
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 2: created as the place where all these different interests, all

643
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: these opposing points of view came together and worked things out.

644
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: It was a place of compromise. Congress has now been diminished.

645
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: And one of the things that's happened is, and this

646
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: is now an issue before the Supreme Court in that

647
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: tariff case is the concentration of power, not just in

648
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: a few hands, which is what Madison was concerned about,

649
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: but in one person's hands, the presidency. The power to

650
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: tack the Congress has withered away, so it doesn't really

651
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 2: amount to much of anything now, much less not being

652
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: a place where different interests work things out. A lot

653
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: of people have said that the basic role of now

654
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 2: a member of Congress is performative, that is, self promotion

655
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: rather than legislating. So that's part of it. And then

656
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: the second part of the sort of creating the venue

657
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: is restoring the political center of America. And that's what

658
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore. Really, it's right now, each of the

659
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: two parties has gravitated toward its extremes, and so now

660
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 2: people go to the polls now and they're faced with

661
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: the choice and the choices to two alternatives, neither of

662
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: which they want. You know, one would be the far left,

663
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: one would be now the Republican Party, the maga right.

664
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: And so the ideas where do people come together, Well,

665
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: most people are in the center, So let's restore that center.

666
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: So this is the conundrum I have, which is let

667
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: me let's deal with one of the fun riddles that

668
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: I like to throw out there about American politics today.

669
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: The two major political parties have never been weaker, and

670
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 1: yet are the poll of the two of the red

671
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: and the blue. Right has never been stronger.

672
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: Right.

673
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: The parties as institutions are super weak. They have no money,

674
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: no resources, no ability to vet I mean, look, I'm

675
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: old enough to remember when the chairman of the RNC

676
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: tried to shame Donald Trump for attacking John McCain that

677
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: eventual chairman of the r and C would become the

678
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: chief of staff of the first Trump presidency. I say

679
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: this with no disrespect to rights previous. I think he's

680
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: a man with a good heart, and I think I think,

681
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: if given the opportunity, would try to do would try

682
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: to do the right thing here. But is the problem

683
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: our political parties are too weak? Is the problem too

684
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: much money? And the reason I say, I'm offering a

685
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: lot of choices here these answers to say, it's all

686
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 1: a problem, But what's solvable first? What do we need

687
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: to do first? I keep coming back to a third

688
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: party or an independent candidate temporarily because of the impact

689
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: I saw Ross perrot have on both parties. It sobered

690
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: them both up, right. It made the Democrats a little

691
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: more fiscally responsible, made the Republicans a little more sensitive

692
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: to working class folks on the issue of trade. So

693
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: it actually had a moderating effect on both parties. So

694
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: I think about the various reform efforts. Where do we begin?

695
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: Where would you begin?

696
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: Well, actually, I've tried both of the both approaches, and

697
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: I am a Republican and I've spent so much of

698
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: my life in Republican elected politics, that's my identity. But

699
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: I did in the last senatorial election in Missouri, I

700
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: did support an independent candidate, and he was the independent

701
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 2: candidate really was is a traditional Republican you know, I

702
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: mean you would just say, okay.

703
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: Well, by the way, John Bailey and I worked together, oh.

704
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay back in the yeah. He So this guy

705
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: was just right down the line, bright guy, attractive guy,

706
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: very well educated, and he ended up with less than

707
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: one percent of the vote. So, I mean, the history

708
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: of third party is actually winning has been pretty bad.

709
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: So maybe, I mean, maybe that's the one alternative. My

710
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: approach has been within the Republican Party because right now,

711
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: of course, elections are determined in primaries, and that means

712
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: to energize the extreme base. But I think that there

713
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: are just a ton of people out there who are

714
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: essentially conservative in their outlook, traditional Republicans in their way

715
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: of thinking and approaching things, and that the idea is

716
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: to appeal to them. So that's my focus has been

717
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: on trying to restore that traditional Republican party. Maybe maybe

718
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: it's feutile. I don't know, I just don't.

719
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you about the party. I always

720
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: comfort myself by reminding people that the isolationist wing, the

721
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: sort of America First wing, whatever you want to describe,

722
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: sort of in mega has a lot of resemblance to it. Okay,

723
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 1: it's not fully that. In fact, I think we're about

724
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: to see the I think the coalition is cracking. I

725
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: think we're and part of it is just the passage

726
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: of time. I mean, you've been through a lot of

727
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: these periods where there's these cult of personalities that have

728
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: a grip on the nation of the country or a party,

729
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: But the grip basically is a decade and it is

730
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: tough to ever hold on beyond it. Right, Reagan's grip

731
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: basically didn't last, but half of Bush's term, right, Clinton's

732
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 1: grip didn't even make it to a third term. Neither

733
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: did Obama's.

734
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: Right.

735
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 1: It just and I think we're seeing that now. It's

736
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: just sort of exhaustion, We burn out. Do you think

737
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: if Trump is disappears, the the Reagan Coalition comes back

738
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: and the America First sort of isolationist wing, arguably both

739
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: of Missouri senators or members of that wing, does that

740
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: fade or what do you foresee in the near term.

741
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: You know, you got started in politics during the old

742
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: Taft Eisenhower disputes.

743
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I'm I'm not quite that old.

744
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: No, but you were, but you were familiar with them, right,

745
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: you were familiar with them back then.

746
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what here's here is maybe

747
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: this maybe I'm just Pollyanna, you know, but I think

748
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: that it's not just that people say, okay, you know,

749
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: the cost of living and that's going to turn people.

750
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think that's part of it. But I

751
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: think mainly most people in our country are not ugly,

752
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: they're not nasty, they're not.

753
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: Mean.

754
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: And I what's happened in politics now, and particularly in

755
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: the Maga world, in the Trump world, is it's ugly.

756
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just terribly mean and angry and aggrieve

757
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: and bitter. And look, I've been out of politics for

758
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: thirty one years now, but I don't believe human nature

759
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: has changed that much in thirty one years. And I

760
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 2: really knew the people of my state. I thought, really well.

761
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: I mean I for a long time. I spent so

762
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: much time with them, and you know what, they're good people.

763
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: I mean, they're just good, decent people.

764
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: And does it matter if you're in the rural parts

765
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: of Missouri seven or the inner city.

766
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Know, and they're you know, and it was and they

767
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: had they they were funny. I mean, they had good

768
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: senses of humor. They laughed. Where's the laughter now in politics?

769
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: Where's the joy? And adult It's all so angry and

770
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: so bitter and so outrageous cruel, I would say, there's

771
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: a cruel some of this immigration stuff, you know. I

772
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 2: mean when they're when they are sending ice agents out

773
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: to break up families. I thought our party was supposed

774
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: to be family values. Well, how about deporting the husband

775
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: and what's going to happen with a wife and children.

776
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: I know of a case like that right in my

777
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: home state. This man is he's going to be deported

778
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: and he won't be able to return for a minimum

779
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: of twenty years. And he's married, and he has two

780
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: small daughters, and one of them is a special needs child.

781
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: What are we that kind of country? Are we that

782
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,479
Speaker 2: kind of country that cheers that on, that says, oh,

783
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: we got to keep these immigrants out to the point

784
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: of shoving them out the door when they've got families.

785
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: So there's a cruelty in all of this. And I

786
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: think that if there's a way, and I've been thinking

787
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: about how to do this as a matter of fact,

788
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: if there's a way to just ask the American people

789
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 2: put the question to it, are we really like this?

790
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 2: Are we really this angry? This mean? You know what?

791
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 2: This week there's going to be a meeting in Washington.

792
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: I read about it, and it's a meeting about how

793
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: Christians are being picked on. I mean, crimea river. Christians

794
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: are supposed to feel they're victims, They're being pushed around,

795
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 2: the elites are out to get them, government to have

796
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: to give them. Please, are we really is it? Is

797
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 2: it sustainable to stoke up that kind of grievance, feeling

798
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: of grievance and anger Is that sustainable or is there

799
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 2: some equilibrium out there where most people really are kind

800
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: and decent and caring and want to live with their neighbors.

801
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: Whether their neighbors are progressive or conservative, whatever they are,

802
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: They're just going to live with them.

803
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: I was counting on that exhaustion, the exhaustion from the anger,

804
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: the exhaustion, and I think we all thought, let me

805
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: put it this way, I shouldn't do the we all

806
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: I thought the idea of Biden's presidency was supposed to

807
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: be this. They I don't want to give me the

808
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: jolly guy. Right, You're in the Joe Biden and I

809
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: covered for most of the time, and I'm not going

810
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: to count the presidency because, frankly, it was a different

811
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: Joe Biden than the guy I covered his vice president

812
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 1: and the guy I covered as a senator. And I'm

813
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: sure you probably felt the same way. But the one

814
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: thing about Joe Biden is that guy was always joyful.

815
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: That guy was always a better he was a better

816
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: angel guy. So I do think that's what the country

817
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: kind of hoped he was going to offer of a

818
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: of a moment. Frankly, I go back to my phrase

819
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: pastor for patriotism, that maybe he was going to serve

820
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: as a bit of a faith healer, you know. And

821
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm not a very religious person. I know you are,

822
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: but I kind of need we need a We need

823
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: somebody to restore faith in the idea of America. And

824
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: I do think it has to end up coming from

825
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: our If our president can't do it, who can, right?

826
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: And we are we?

827
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: You know?

828
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: I think I think Obama had that ability in him.

829
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 1: I think he made a few errors at the end

830
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 1: and sort of not reading, not understanding what was happening

831
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: inside his own party, and they led them down the

832
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: wrong road there. But so I take your point on this.

833
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: Is this something I mean, do you think I know

834
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: what I think? When you say those, I think, well,

835
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: this is what social media has done. It has made

836
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: us all self centered, It has made us all more

837
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: it is, we're all. I always joke because I'm obsessed

838
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: to try to fix local news. So I'll always say, well,

839
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: the one thing I've learned with this phone and I'm

840
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: holding it up, is we're all a little bit narcissistic,

841
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: and we all think whatever's happening right around us, we

842
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: had to talk about, Hey, that's local news. Maybe people

843
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: want more local news, right, let's let's get more micro.

844
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: But it does feel as if our politics changed when

845
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: the iPhone became the primary source of communication for political information.

846
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. And there's been

847
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: a lot of commentary about that. It's a great book

848
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: called Dang Generation. I'm just that about the effect that

849
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: the iPhone is having, especially on younger people, And I

850
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: think that all that's true. And I don't know, I

851
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: don't know that there's any antidote to that, but I

852
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: do think that there has to be a sustained effort

853
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 2: to focus public attention on the question of who are

854
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: we and are we really angry and mean and cruel

855
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: as people? Or are we not? And I think that

856
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: that that effort will call for a lot of it,

857
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 2: and it will call for the media, We'll call for

858
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: anybody who's got.

859
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: Well, what do you do if the sitting president of

860
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: the United States does not agree with that assise?

861
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: Oh no, he doesn't know. He's the opposite. He is

862
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:06,439
Speaker 2: the opposite. He's the That's what he is. And that's why,

863
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the reasons I think he's

864
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 2: caused more damage to our country than any other person

865
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: in our history. But so now what? And I think

866
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 2: it's got to be more than just top down. I

867
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 2: think it's got to be bottomed up. I think it's

868
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: got to be the American people being faced with that

869
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: question of who we are and is this really right?

870
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: And does Donald Trump and what he stands for really

871
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: represent us? And what we stand for who we are?

872
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: And so how to sustain that? Well? I can think

873
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: of how to do it in bits and pieces. You know.

874
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

875
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: by Waldgrain. Waldgrain is the first bake from Frozen subscription

876
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: box for our teasonal breads, seasonal pastries, and fresh pastas,

877
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: plus all items conveniently bake into twenty five minutes or less.

878
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 1: Unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients

879
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: you can pronounce and a slow fermentation process that can

880
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: be easier on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants.

881
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: Wildgrains boxes are fully customizable. They're constantly adding seasonal and

882
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: limited tiding products for you to enjoy. In addition to

883
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: their classic box, they now feature a gluten free box

884
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: and a plant based box. I checked out the gluten

885
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: free box, and let me tell you they have a

886
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: gluten free sourdough bread. It is. We got two loads

887
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: of it and we've done one loaf already. It's a

888
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: cranberry and almond sourdough bread. It's like the best raisin

889
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: bread you've ever had, except it's not raisin. It's great.

890
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: You're gonna love this. You know it's in or miss

891
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: if you mess around in the gluten free bread world.

892
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: This is a hit. Seriously, I was impressed. So look

893
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: for a limited time. Wild Grain is offering our listeners

894
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: thirty dollars off your first box, plus free croissants in

895
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: every box when you go to wildgrain dot com slash

896
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: todcas asked to start your subscription, follow these instructions, free

897
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: croissants in every box, thirty dollars off your first box

898
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: when you go to wildgrain dot com slash podcast that's

899
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: wildgrain dot com slash toodcast, or simply use the promo

900
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: code toodcast at checkout. Always use the code get the discount.

901
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, it's excellent, excellent. Brett, Well, let me

902
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: give you a suggestion because and I know I'm curious

903
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: how much conversation you've had. There are two senators that

904
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: always jump out to me as two senators that I

905
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: would like to lead, to see lead a conversation like

906
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: the one you've described, And they're the actual They're the

907
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: two senators who are also happened to be pastors, James

908
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: Langford out of Oklahoma and Raphael Warnock go to Georgia. Langford,

909
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 1: to me, is the closest thing to you that exists

910
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,320
Speaker 1: in this current Senate. I say that not just because

911
00:56:54,360 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 1: of his past being an ordained pastor, but more in

912
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: who he is, who was his temperatip. I think I

913
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: got to think you know Langford a little bit. He is,

914
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: I think a top notch human being. I think if

915
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 1: it were politically safer, he would be speaking out more.

916
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: But I go back and forth of whether how much

917
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: grace I give certain senators. I'll give him more grace

918
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: than others because I feel like I know who he is.

919
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: Should what role could those two play? I feel like

920
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: if they chose to play a role here, they could

921
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: play a powerful role. But Langford would have to criticize

922
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: his own party, and I don't know if he's ready

923
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: to do that.

924
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: Well, I don't, Yeah, but I don't think you need

925
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: to start out criticizing your own party. I think you

926
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: end up you start out as we have with our

927
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: organization called our Republican Legacy, putting forth certain points of

928
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: view or principles that are positive, that stand on their

929
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: own And if you put, if you put to the

930
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: American who are we? How do you want to treat

931
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 2: your neighbors? You know? Do you? How do you want

932
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 2: to do that? I think there would be a response.

933
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily it would be wonderful, it

934
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 2: would come for the person, and wonderful of more political leaders.

935
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: Anybody with the soapbox, though, can do it. I think

936
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: that there's a real role for religious congregations to do this,

937
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: bringing people together who are different, who have different opinions,

938
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: breaking bread together, you know, invite a Republican to lunch?

939
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: How about that?

940
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: Right?

941
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: I mean any other way around? Right? No more anything?

942
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: And they're you know so, I mean there could be

943
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: a real effort. It could be led by my religious congregations.

944
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 2: And it should be because the root of the word

945
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 2: religion is the same as for ligament, holding things together.

946
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 2: So how do we do that? Are there tactics for

947
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: doing it? Invite a Republican to lunch. How about if

948
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 2: somebody that you know who has got the opposite political

949
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: view has hit something awful happened by way of health

950
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,439
Speaker 2: or family laws, call them up. Call that person up

951
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: and say I care about you. And Saint Paul said,

952
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 2: rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

953
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: And I think that that is what it takes. I

954
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: think it's I think essentially it's a question of what

955
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: we're really right and we're not like this. I know that,

956
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 2: I absolutely know that we as a people are not

957
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: like Donald Trump. I know that.

958
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: So obviously you hope this is repairable from the inside out.

959
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: But when you look at the grip he has on

960
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: the party, Like I said, I think it's a coalition

961
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: that's in the midst of fracturing because it doesn't have

962
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: an ideological glue. Right, He's supposedly for non interventions, and

963
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: yet we're about to go on an escapade in Venezuela

964
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: where he's getting involved in the Hondura and presidential election.

965
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: He's inserted it. You know, it's as whatever you think

966
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: of Marjorie Taylor Green, I think I take her at

967
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: her word that she looks at this and said, hey,

968
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: I actually voted for a ideology here. And I think

969
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: Trump's got a problem. I think there's some true believers

970
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: in his movement that are like, wait a minute, we

971
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: didn't vote for this. We didn't vote for Ukraine or

972
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: Israel or Venezuela. And we know that Trump's a transactionalist.

973
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: He got he jumped in front of that parade because

974
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: he saw it as the fastest way to get the nomination.

975
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: And now he's like, oh, well, I can get paid

976
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: helping out the Hondurans here, and you know, I'll dabbling

977
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: this over there, and the Middle East Royalty loves me

978
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: and so and it's actually counter to what he promised

979
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: his constituents. But it hasn't. It hasn't broken.

980
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 2: Our position, our position in our Republican legacy, which is

981
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 2: our effort to keep the ember of traditional conservatism burning.

982
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: Our position is that none of this is conservative, right,

983
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: none of it. It's not. I mean, we used to

984
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: think of ourselves as we're the conservative party. Okay, let's say,

985
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 2: let's ask the Republicans that question, do you view yourself

986
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 2: as conservative or not? But please don't let the conservative

987
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 2: label be appropriated by the maga people because they are.

988
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: Not well Jack, I think the words lost its meaning

989
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: to most. If you ask my son, who's eight in

990
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: college studying, he thinks whatever Trump supporter is a conservative.

991
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, that's it's an ideological label that

992
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: doesn't fit what the definition used to be. And I

993
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: was trying to walk them through this, and you know

994
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: right now, it's just a label that's a fixed on

995
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: anything Trump.

996
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's true, But I mean we've got

997
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: to reclaim that. And that's what our this group of ours,

998
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: our Republican legacy, is attempting to do. I mean pointing

999
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 2: out there's nothing conservative about blowing out up the national death.

1000
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: That's not conservative. There's nothing conservative about deep washington involvement

1001
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 2: in the economy, which was high protective. Cares Ronald Grigan

1002
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: rolling over in his grave.

1003
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: Can you believe how many pieces of companies the USCU

1004
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: now has.

1005
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 2: An owning company? That is? What's conservative about government owning companies?

1006
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 2: What's conservative about government? The Washington and the President trying

1007
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: to tell universities what they should teach, or law firms

1008
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: about whom they should represent, or late night comedians about

1009
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,919
Speaker 2: who they should not. What's conservative about that? That's not conservative.

1010
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 2: What's conservative about cottoning up to Vladimir Putin? How does

1011
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 2: that square with the Republican Party of Dwight Eisenhower and

1012
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan? It does not. So it's not that this

1013
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 2: is just a different part of conservatism. It's the opposite

1014
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: of what our party was, has been, and what I

1015
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,919
Speaker 2: think if faced with it. Look, that's why I think

1016
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: it's important to field candidate, and hopefully in the presidential election.

1017
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 2: Also maybe the person would lose, so they loses, she loses, whatever,

1018
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 2: but at least present it to Republican voters. How do

1019
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: you feel about huge deficits that are growing? How do

1020
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 2: you feel about the Trump administration in its first term

1021
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 2: that increased the national debt in four years by more

1022
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: than almost forty percent, and that's going to increase it

1023
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 2: by another three trillion over the next decade. How do

1024
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 2: you feel about that? Do you think government should own businesses?

1025
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 2: Do you favor high protective tariffs? Do you feel favor

1026
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: pulling the plug on Ukraine? Put those questions to Republican voters.

1027
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: Do you talk about fracturing of the Republican Party. I

1028
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 2: don't think it would be fracturing over little stuff. I mean,

1029
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 2: this is fundamental stuff that is defined the Republican Party

1030
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: historically as the concern party, which it isn't anymore.

1031
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: Look, one of Missouri's US Senators, Josh Holly, I think,

1032
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: is smarter about understanding that the voter, the voter that

1033
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: elects Republicans now, doesn't necessarily agree with that definition of

1034
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: doesn't rejected that version of the Republican Party and prefers

1035
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: one that is I always say, this is not a

1036
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: small government Republican party. This is a strong government Republican

1037
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: You bet.

1038
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 2: It's really remarkable as a matter of fact that I

1039
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 2: remember when I was a kid, somebody said this to me.

1040
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: There there really is like a convergence in a circle

1041
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 2: of the extreme right and the extreme life sendula right.

1042
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 2: Eventually they touched, Yes, it's it's that, that's right. But

1043
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: here's the thing. I mean, we're trying to do this

1044
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 2: in our group, our Republican legacy. We're trying to do this.

1045
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 2: We're trying to plant the flag for a principle, but

1046
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 2: not enough people are doing it. Not enough people are

1047
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: really putting the issue. So that's what I think we

1048
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 2: should do it. Maybe Hally's right. Maybe we are the

1049
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 2: party of big government and writing two thousand dollars checks

1050
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 2: to people and all of that. Maybe we've become Maybe

1051
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 2: that's the way to be popular. A lot of people

1052
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 2: historically in politics think this is the way to become popular,

1053
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: way to win elections is to give it away.

1054
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: Check it in every part, right, remember.

1055
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 2: That, that's right. That Comfreq Hubert Emphrey used to call

1056
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 2: it the politics of joy. Just give it away. Government

1057
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: intervenes and everything government should be big. Government isn't big

1058
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 2: enough now. Government doesn't spend enough now. It is a

1059
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: powerful enough now, and it doesn't abuse your enemies the

1060
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 2: way it should, and it should do more of that.

1061
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 2: So that yeah, So that's that's that has been I

1062
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: guess the formula that they're relying on. But what if

1063
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: you put the opposite to people? I mean, what if

1064
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 2: somebody were to run for president? Not caring whether this

1065
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 2: person necessarily had to win for his or her ego,

1066
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 2: but just put the question to people, who are we

1067
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: as a people? What are we as a party? What

1068
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 2: do we stand for? Do we stand for anything anymore? Anything?

1069
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,919
Speaker 1: So should we have more? I mean, do you think

1070
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: you know you know this is this is well, let

1071
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: me start with this. I'm obsessed with having a constant

1072
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: tuitional convention. I think we need one, and I think

1073
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: if you look at every period, every period in our

1074
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: history where we've been at the brink, okay, where we

1075
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: hit a low civil War being the lowest we've actually

1076
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: that's always the moment we've actually amended our constitution. We

1077
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: created more equal protector. Essentially, the equal protection clause comes

1078
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: in after the Civil War.

1079
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 2: We have mead the Constitution. We didn't have any convention

1080
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 2: to do it.

1081
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: No, that's true, but I don't trust this Congress to

1082
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: actually allow that to happen. But let's say, but either way,

1083
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 1: we can do it in any which way. After the

1084
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: debacle of the early twentieth century, when arguably the worst

1085
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:49,680
Speaker 1: scandal we ever had Teapot Dome, well we get the

1086
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 1: direct election of senators, and then we get the amendment

1087
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,879
Speaker 1: to allow the income tax, which actually creates the property

1088
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: tax structure that funds local governments to this day. And

1089
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: of course we gave women the right to vote. So

1090
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: I just think that we will have an opportunity in

1091
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: the next ten to fifteen years to do some reforms

1092
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: because I do think there's enough shell shocked Americans like

1093
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: whoa the last ten years, right, whether it's amending the

1094
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: constitution to take away the power of the pardon to

1095
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 1: an individual, I mean, this is the abuse of the

1096
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: pardon process is clearly I think turned out to be

1097
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 1: a problem. Maybe we do term limits, maybe we do this.

1098
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 1: What do you think we need a moment here where?

1099
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: And the reason I like a constitutional convention because I

1100
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: want to bring liberals and conservatives. Let's talk about the

1101
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: balanced budget amendment. Let's talk about term limits, let's talk

1102
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: about the pardon power, let's talk about age limits. Right,

1103
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: all of that would have to be constitutional amendments, but

1104
01:09:49,400 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: the process itself could be restorative for civics terrible, You

1105
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: don't want it, you think it's okay?

1106
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 2: Tell me why?

1107
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 1: Okay?

1108
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:13,480
Speaker 2: Because I think that our Constitution is a work of genius,

1109
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 2: and I think that our guiding principle is a principle

1110
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 2: of genius. And the principle is it's it's the famous

1111
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 2: what five words and and the Declaration of independence? Almen

1112
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 2: are created equal? Did we depart from that right from

1113
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: the beginning? Yeah? But is that our basic standard? Yes?

1114
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 2: And we believed that we are capable, We the people

1115
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 2: are capable of governing our selves. We don't have to

1116
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 2: be governed by the powers that be. We take responsibility

1117
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 2: for governing ourselves. And that was Jefferson's principle, and that

1118
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 2: was what the Constitution was designed to do. No more

1119
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 2: big deal king, no more big deal aristocracy, no more

1120
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: big concentrated power in one person's hands or a few people.

1121
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 2: We do this. That is our republican form of government.

1122
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 2: That is what we are responsible for. And I think

1123
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 2: we just have to insist on that. And that's it's

1124
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 2: not a new principle, it's our principle.

1125
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: It's the I don't think we disagree here. I think

1126
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,480
Speaker 1: we may disagree in the vehicle to amend the Constitution,

1127
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: but I do think we need to freshen it up.

1128
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: We need to add some amendments.

1129
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,719
Speaker 2: Do you well, maybe, yeah, amendments. But that's not counts

1130
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:11,560
Speaker 2: usual convention. What I mean, the first Constitution.

1131
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in rewriting. I see what you're saying.

1132
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in rewriting it. That's what you're Okay.

1133
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:23,839
Speaker 2: The first Constitutional Convention was presided over by George Washington.

1134
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 2: What if then another countsitutional convention was provided presided by

1135
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: Donald Trump.

1136
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: Well, I don't I've heard that. I get that. I

1137
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: don't want to fear the voter. Sometimes I do think

1138
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:42,719
Speaker 1: we make certain decisions like fear. We fear the voter.

1139
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1140
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: The Electoral College arguably was a creation because ultimately they

1141
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: feared the voters and they were like, we better have

1142
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: one more check on the voters. And you know, look

1143
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: at jerrymandering. Right, I would argue, they fear the voter

1144
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: and we need to we need to get rid of

1145
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 1: that principle of fearing the voter and instead realizing, no,

1146
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: the voter is in charge.

1147
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 2: Okay, we should please do it by amendments and that.

1148
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 1: Well I what I So that's what I I But

1149
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: what I could see us having is gathering for to

1150
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: debate these amendments. And I think that we should have

1151
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: a form for it. And I think it's pretty clear

1152
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 1: we've got some problems, whether it's money in politics, the

1153
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: courts are going to rule one way. So if you

1154
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: want to have any limitation, you're going to have to

1155
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: create a constitutional amendment jerry mandering, you know, I think

1156
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: I happen to think the House is too small I

1157
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: actually think we don't have enough representatives in Washington given

1158
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 1: the size of our population. I know, more politicians doesn't

1159
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: sound like a reform to many people, but that's if

1160
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: you if I, if I go back, I look at

1161
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: it as founder's intent and the House of Representatives is

1162
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: no longer the people's house, and that's a problem. And

1163
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: how do you bring that mindset back to it? Yeah,

1164
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think the point is is that it

1165
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: does feel as if we need, you know, like any house,

1166
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: it needs updating, and the American House needs some updating.

1167
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, now I understand what you're saying, and

1168
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 2: I think there are you know, discrete areas which would

1169
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 2: be worth addressing. I mean, my own view is in

1170
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: the same of the money in politics. I don't think

1171
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: that money is the same as speech, which is basically

1172
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 2: with the Supreme Court decided. I think that there's a

1173
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,600
Speaker 2: right to speak, of course, into assembly. There's not a

1174
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 2: right to bring a bull horned into a political meeting.

1175
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 2: And that's essentially what we have now. So no, I

1176
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 2: understand that I haven't thought about a constitutional amendment on

1177
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 2: the gerrymandering or increasing the sides of the House. I

1178
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 2: just don't have any thought.

1179
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: No, And I get that those are my hobby horses.

1180
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean maybe they're good ideas, maybe they're not,

1181
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 2: but I don't I'm not for scrapping what we have.

1182
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 2: I'm for restoring what we have. I think that the

1183
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 2: Supreme Court's decision in this tariff case is really going

1184
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 2: to be important.

1185
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: How badly? Let me say, let's say this, what if

1186
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: they uphold the president's authority? What does that do to

1187
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: the checks and balances of our.

1188
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 2: It removes them, Yeah, it really removes them. But it

1189
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:53,600
Speaker 2: basically says that the president has absolutely powerative anything. He

1190
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 2: can do anything you want if he wants, he could

1191
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 2: paint the White House orange. And by the way, he

1192
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 2: might side to do that. You know, yeah, it's it's

1193
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 2: I mean, if Congress doesn't retain the power to tax, right,

1194
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 2: which is you know, an express power an article one

1195
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 2: of the Constitutions, the power to tax that that can

1196
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 2: be given away aid.

1197
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's been so hard to get

1198
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 1: Congress to flex its? I mean, I've had a theory

1199
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: that Congress doesn't want the responsibility that the laws that

1200
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: they pass that could come with it, so they intentionally

1201
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 1: allow the ambiguity in the laws they pass, especially if

1202
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 1: they think the first administration that will execute those laws

1203
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: is one that they agree with. And that's how the

1204
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: ambiguity gets into the lawmaking process in the first place,

1205
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: and then puts us where essentially an administrative state interprets

1206
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: the law, and then we end up in the courts,

1207
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 1: and then we have this sort of over time, it

1208
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: is essentially accumulated to the executive's advantage.

1209
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, I think even back in ancient history,

1210
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 2: namely when I was around, the way to bridge what

1211
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 2: seemed to be irreconcilable differences in the writing of legislation

1212
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 2: is to bridge it with fuzz. So ambiguity is sort

1213
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 2: of the default in how to finally pass legislation. So

1214
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 2: I think there's that, But I think now it's more

1215
01:17:50,920 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 2: than that. I think that Congress, now it really would

1216
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 2: be an interesting question to put two members in Congress.

1217
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Well? What is it? Please?

1218
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 1: What is your job?

1219
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 2: Yet? Tell me what you've done other than say, get

1220
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 2: on Fox News or put something on social media. What

1221
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 2: have you done other than take many many vacations, I

1222
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 2: mean the vacation time, I mean now, Thanksgiving, Christmas, is coming.

1223
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 2: Then we've got the first of the year, and then

1224
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 2: we've got whatever comes after that. But I mean they

1225
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 2: just they go on vacation all the time.

1226
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 1: Well I was joking. Put a three day weekend, a

1227
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: three day weekend for the rest of us is always

1228
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: a two.

1229
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 3: Week recess, unbelievable in the work so called work week

1230
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 3: is three days. Yeah, And it's what are they they're

1231
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 3: drawing paychecks for what I mean what they're not legislating

1232
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:22,720
Speaker 3: because legislating is controversial, So to avoid controversy, and legislating

1233
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 3: is producing something other than what Donald Trump wants you

1234
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 3: to produce, So don't do it.

1235
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: So well, take take health care, where's where's the legislators

1236
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: try to come up with a with a plan to

1237
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: deal with the expiring healthcare subsidies. Where's there a health

1238
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 1: and if your party is an alternative plan, show me

1239
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: the process.

1240
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 2: What what are you doing about the pending and solvency

1241
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:56,639
Speaker 2: of the Social Security Trust Fund? When it comes, which

1242
01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 2: is scheduled become in eight years, social security benefits will

1243
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 2: drop by sixty six hundred dollars.

1244
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:08,680
Speaker 1: And Senator, I'm a well aware being a member of

1245
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 1: gen X and not a baby boomer that I'm going

1246
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: to be the first generation. Okay, because that eight years.

1247
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: It's about I'm getting close to when I'm going to

1248
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: be eligible and my generation is going to be the

1249
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: one that gets the first haircut. And we didn't make

1250
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: the mess.

1251
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the nice thing about being money age is

1252
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: it's your problem. So no, that's right. But I mean

1253
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 2: you think about so what do you like, take major

1254
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 2: pending issues Okay, yeah, the national debt and then related issues,

1255
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 2: the pending insolvency of the Social Security Trust Fund, which

1256
01:20:53,840 --> 01:21:01,640
Speaker 2: will result in major reduction of benefits, and then the

1257
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 2: pending and solvency in the same year I think it's

1258
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:10,520
Speaker 2: twenty thirty three of the Health Insurance Trust Fund. In Medicare,

1259
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 2: you think rural hospitals have suffered because of Medicaid cuts,

1260
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 2: wait till the Medicare cuts come. So, I mean, these

1261
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 2: are huge problems that are going to affect people. And

1262
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 2: is Congress doing anything about this? The answer is nothing, punt.

1263
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 2: You know what they'll end up doing. They will end

1264
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: up appointing a commission. Now, I was Bob Carey from

1265
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 2: Nebraska and I were the co chairs of something called

1266
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 2: the Carrie Danforth Commission. In nineteen ninety four to deal

1267
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 2: with these problems? Was this a successor?

1268
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: Wasn't there a moini Han commission before that? Wasn't this

1269
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 1: yours was a successor to what Monahan was a part of.

1270
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 1: I don't know during Reagan, but there was wondering Reagan.

1271
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 2: There was Simpson bowls.

1272
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 1: I remember Simpson balls after that?

1273
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 2: So and what happened to those? Yeah? So Tanashell, so

1274
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 2: we have now we are we we have a committee.

1275
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 2: We have it's been created. The name of it is Congress.

1276
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:35,639
Speaker 2: It's not named carried in for the Simpson bulls. It's

1277
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 2: called Congress. So here's my idea. What would happen if

1278
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 2: Congress would cancel just one of its vacation times, just one.

1279
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 2: It could keep the other eight or nine or whatever

1280
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 2: of them. Cancel one and just deal with these problems.

1281
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: Just legislate, show us and by the way, let us watch, yes,

1282
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 1: let's watch the process. I remember one of my favorite

1283
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: moments was when Obama hosted Republican senators and they debated

1284
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 1: Obamacare in front of the American people, and everybody learned

1285
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 1: something about that process. You didn't have to agree with

1286
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: the idea or not, but it was so healthy to

1287
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: see Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama going back and forth

1288
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 1: about it. You're like, Okay, this is kind of what

1289
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:27,440
Speaker 1: our founders hoped would happen.

1290
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 2: Or or I'm the alternative and the alternative, why not

1291
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 2: just have a little backroom politics among real politicians and decide, okay,

1292
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 2: we'll come out of this with something.

1293
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 1: Right as you the way it worked. When people wanted

1294
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: something to pass, you find reasons to support legislation. When

1295
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: you wanted not to pass, you can find reasons not

1296
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: to support.

1297
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 2: Right.

1298
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure every vote you cast in the affirmative you

1299
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 1: could have made the case to go against You go

1300
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:04,480
Speaker 1: against that vote if that's what you wanted.

1301
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 2: To do, right, Yeah, I guess I don't know.

1302
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 1: The point is everything's a compromise.

1303
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:10,799
Speaker 2: Everything.

1304
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 1: How often did you vote for a perfect bill? Okay,

1305
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: that's no, That.

1306
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 2: Is exactly right. And that's how it was designed. I mean,

1307
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 2: that is how the framers of the Constitution designed it.

1308
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 2: They designed it, they designed the legislative process. It's a

1309
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 2: place of.

1310
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 1: Compromise, and it was supposed to be incrementalism.

1311
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: They designed it right as they designed it as sausage making.

1312
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 2: And I happened to think sausage making is a good

1313
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 2: thing to do, Yes, and you don't want to worry.

1314
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 2: And hopefully it's going to be relatively good sausage. But

1315
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:51,560
Speaker 2: it's not going to be it's not going to be

1316
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 2: you know, Prime rib, it's going to be sausage.

1317
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here. On two questions

1318
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 1: that always befuddle the Senate these days. One is judicial

1319
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 1: nominations and the other is the filibuster. I'm a I

1320
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 1: have obsessively read Federalist seventy eight, which is Hamilton's defense

1321
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: of the of the judiciary, and most importantly, of what

1322
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: he thinks will make a good judiciary. He's essentially outlining

1323
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 1: he he comes. He comes out against the election of judges.

1324
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: He says, you can't have these as elections, and so

1325
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:30,759
Speaker 1: why state some states do this is beyond me, but

1326
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to set that aside. But the goal was

1327
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 1: as neutral of arbiters as you can get, and now

1328
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: they don't. He doesn't say how it should be done right.

1329
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 1: He doesn't expressly say it should be two thirds of

1330
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 1: the Senate, three quarters of the Senate, whatever. He just

1331
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: says the goal should be that we're a long way

1332
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,679
Speaker 1: away from that goal. I would argue that unfortunately, these

1333
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: black robes are red and blue. Right. I'm not saying

1334
01:25:55,479 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: every every liberal justice it only thinks about being a

1335
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 1: liberal before being a justice, and vice versa. But that's

1336
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 1: what the public sees, and it feels as if the

1337
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 1: judiciary is just another political game. How would you? And look,

1338
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 1: I can make the case that Harry Reid did this,

1339
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 1: or Mitch McConnell, I think they collectively broke this. Personally,

1340
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: I think everybody's got dirty hands here, But what would

1341
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 1: you what would be a better way to create our judiciary.

1342
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: I don't like fifty votes, don't. I think it's made

1343
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: the judiciary more partisan than it needs to be. But

1344
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: I also respect the fact that the founders when they

1345
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: wanted two thirds or three quarters, they actually said two

1346
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 1: thirds or three quarters. If they wanted super majority, they

1347
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 1: wrote it in there, and this one they were trusting

1348
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: us not to worry about a supermajority. I kind of

1349
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 1: think it turns out we're wrong, But but what say you?

1350
01:26:54,760 --> 01:27:06,720
Speaker 2: So? I think that we publicly have thought of the

1351
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 2: judiciary is yet another policy making branch of government, and

1352
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 2: I think that that's that goes back aways. I thought that,

1353
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,560
Speaker 2: you know, when I was around like Supreme Court nominations,

1354
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 2: it was all about, well, okay, what's going to be

1355
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 2: the policy result of this judge, particularly on the issue

1356
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 2: of abortion is there? Are they going to stick with

1357
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 2: roversus way? Do they an roversus way? It was viewed

1358
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 2: as a policy making branch of government. It was not

1359
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 2: created to be that. It was crazy, it.

1360
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Was an arbiter right.

1361
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 2: It was yes. And the meaning of judicial conservatism as

1362
01:27:54,080 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 2: opposed to political conservatism is judicial restraint. It's judges is saying,

1363
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 2: wait a second, if we're going to get into deciding

1364
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:09,719
Speaker 2: a case, it has to be based on the clear

1365
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 2: understanding of the meaning of the Constitution and not broadening

1366
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 2: the Constitution to the point where I've got a free

1367
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:22,520
Speaker 2: hand to come out with policy results. That's what's happened.

1368
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:28,640
Speaker 2: I'm not sure now they've got rid of the pillarbous

1369
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 2: fear for judges. I know that, you know, I was

1370
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 2: very much supportive of Clarence Thomas in his nomination. There's

1371
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 2: no way he could have been. I think we ended

1372
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 2: up with fifty one votes.

1373
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: In a democratic Senate. I mean, I always have to

1374
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 1: remind people Clarence Thomas got confirmed by a Democratic Senate.

1375
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if that nomination even gets accepted today

1376
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: right now.

1377
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 2: It was, you know, he used to work for me.

1378
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 2: That my involvement. He I gave him this first job

1379
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 2: out of law school, and he worked for me, and

1380
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 2: when I was state Attorney general, and he worked for

1381
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,800
Speaker 2: me when I was a senator. And I just saw

1382
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 2: the suffering of the human being at that time. And

1383
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 2: I can say that that process was you want a

1384
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 2: good weight loss program? Yeah, that did it, that Stamus. Yeah,

1385
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 2: so yeah.

1386
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: You did that process scar him. Do you think it

1387
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 1: changed his views?

1388
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:42,799
Speaker 2: No, I you know, amazingly, No, I don't. I think

1389
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 2: he is. I think the sort of the presentation of him,

1390
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 2: it was sort of this scowling but he's the opposite.

1391
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 2: He is.

1392
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 1: I've heard this from people who know him as friends

1393
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 1: that he's a jolly guy.

1394
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 2: He's really a good guy, the jokester guy. For people

1395
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:10,879
Speaker 2: who have clerked from other Supreme Court justices that Clarence

1396
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:14,440
Speaker 2: is the most popular justice among all of the clerks

1397
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court building. He's he's just a good

1398
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: guy and he's a very caring person. That's what he is.

1399
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 2: That's what was so brutal about that whole yeah episode

1400
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 2: restoring the filibuster for justices. I don't know anybody because

1401
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 2: he confirmed anymore.

1402
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:40,799
Speaker 1: No, no, no, and I don't know. But instead of restoring

1403
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 1: the number with it, here's what I had a friend

1404
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:48,719
Speaker 1: at the Bush who was part of Bush's Bush forty

1405
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: three's White House Counsel's office and said, you know, when

1406
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 1: he was making nominations, when they were finding nominees, betting

1407
01:30:56,439 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: nominees for the for the federal and circuit level, you know, said,

1408
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:02,800
Speaker 1: when you know you have to get sixty votes, you

1409
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 1: find a certain type of person. When you know you

1410
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 1: only need fifty votes, you can go with a different

1411
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 1: type of person. So it has changed, whatever we think.

1412
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:15,280
Speaker 1: It has changed the makeup. Right, we have more more

1413
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: ideological legal thinkers. Now maybe that's healthy over time, but

1414
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: that can be damaging in the Yeah no, it in

1415
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 1: different moments.

1416
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:32,440
Speaker 2: I understand that. I think that's right. I think, you know, necessity,

1417
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,640
Speaker 2: maybe the mother of invention here is ever going to

1418
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 2: confirm anybody. No, there are people, there are people in

1419
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 2: the Senate now who simply vote against nominees for the

1420
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 2: other party. They just automatic votes against them, right, you know,

1421
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,600
Speaker 2: I counted up the number of times when I was

1422
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 2: in the Senate that I voted against any nominee for anything.

1423
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 2: And this would be all of Carter and the first

1424
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 2: part of Clinton.

1425
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: And all of Reagan, so basically all years of one

1426
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: party twelve years of another. Right.

1427
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, but all of these, including like six years of

1428
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 2: nominees for the person and the other party, there only

1429
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:23,559
Speaker 2: twice I ever voted against the nominee. I mean, I

1430
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 2: just said, Okay, this is the president's now. These people

1431
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 2: just automatically vote against the numedie.

1432
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: So let me ask about the filibuster in general. Would

1433
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:38,759
Speaker 1: you I'm going to guess you think it's this process

1434
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 1: is overused, yes, which is created because what I think

1435
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:47,840
Speaker 1: the real problem with governing these days is a reconciliation process.

1436
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:52,160
Speaker 1: What was created as sort of a as you you

1437
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: just use the phrase great necessities, the mother of all invention,

1438
01:32:55,800 --> 01:33:00,719
Speaker 1: the reconciliation invention by Bob BYRD was essentially a mother

1439
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:04,639
Speaker 1: of you know, one of those moments where they were like, hey,

1440
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 1: we can't ever get a budget passed if we if

1441
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: we try to keep doing this with the with sixty votes.

1442
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: And yet you know, I was I certainly was raised

1443
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 1: a part of the generation. I'm gonna guess you were too,

1444
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 1: of the Mister Smith myth. And I say that it's

1445
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 1: a myth, but there is this idea that, hey, one

1446
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 1: person can make a difference, one person can stand up.

1447
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: So what should the rillibuster rule be if in your

1448
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 1: in your vision of it, regardless of what it is, now,

1449
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:37,519
Speaker 1: what would well, how.

1450
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 2: Would you like to see it? I do think it's

1451
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 2: I do think it's overused. I mean, now it's commonly

1452
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 2: said that it takes sixty votes to pass anything. Yeah,

1453
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 2: but I I do think it's overused. I think we

1454
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 2: never thought that way. But I do think that it's

1455
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:03,799
Speaker 2: important to reata the filibuster. I do believe that because

1456
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 2: otherwise that you just have these wild gyrations who's in

1457
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 2: the majority at a given time, And the filibuster at

1458
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 2: least forces some degree of bipartisanship that otherwise wouldn't exist

1459
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: at all.

1460
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, what's the goal in twenty twenty six

1461
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: of restore Republican legacy? What would be a good year

1462
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 1: as far.

1463
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 2: As your concern, Well, we're so, we're working on it.

1464
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:39,840
Speaker 2: We're that our Republican legacy is really two couple of

1465
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:46,280
Speaker 2: things that it's doing. One, we're messaging. We're trying to

1466
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:50,759
Speaker 2: articulate in as many forms as we can the basic

1467
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 2: conservative principles that define the Republican Party. We're organizing at

1468
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 2: the statewide level, we're state chairs, and then increasingly we're

1469
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:09,720
Speaker 2: going to get into the business of trying to influence

1470
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 2: and support conservative basic Republicans, fundamental Republicans, traditional Republicans, and elections,

1471
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 2: both for party positions, party organizational positions, and for elections themselves.

1472
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:30,720
Speaker 2: So I hope that we will have a team on

1473
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 2: the field, and I hope that I hope that there

1474
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 2: will be some candidates, as I just heard of one

1475
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:44,560
Speaker 2: yesterday and Nebraska, and mostly I don't know these people themselves,

1476
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 2: but that's what we're looking for, people who are good,

1477
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:55,599
Speaker 2: responsible conservatives, which is not what MEGA is today.

1478
01:35:56,200 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 1: And by conservative you mean less government, more government, right,

1479
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, government not involved in business. I mean

1480
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 1: what what what you know any other principles you would

1481
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: add into that?

1482
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, uh, certainly, fiscal hawks, certainly

1483
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 2: limited role for government and its intervention with the private

1484
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 2: sector in the economy, and universities, at law firms and

1485
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:31,200
Speaker 2: all of that certainly, respect for the rule of law,

1486
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 2: which means not weaponizing government against political enemies. Certainly, respect

1487
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 2: for the constitutional order, which means not the extreme concentration

1488
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 2: of power in the in the president, certainly, a national

1489
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 2: defense second to none, and also a foreign policy that

1490
01:36:55,439 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 2: supports our our friends in our ally that would include

1491
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 2: you've grained all of that comprises the Republican Party as

1492
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 2: it has existed for decades and decades and decades. All

1493
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: of that has been scrapped, not modified, but I mean

1494
01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:26,880
Speaker 2: thrown in the trash heap by Donald Trump, all of it.

1495
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 2: So we're just standing for principle, and we're looking for

1496
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:35,480
Speaker 2: people who will make that stand in elections.

1497
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 1: Well, I hope this conversation provides some hope to some

1498
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: of my I would say demoralized conservative friends who just

1499
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 1: look at this and the character doesn't count anymore. Morals

1500
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:50,480
Speaker 1: and ethics.

1501
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 2: You know.

1502
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 1: Look, I can tell you this, Senator Dane Forth, I

1503
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:57,880
Speaker 1: always sell you as a as a high character person,

1504
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 1: and I thought that was an asset. And American politics

1505
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: and the high character people are there, there doesn't seem

1506
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:08,519
Speaker 1: to be room for them anymore. I hope you're I

1507
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:10,880
Speaker 1: admire that this is what you're trying to leave as

1508
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 1: a legacy.

1509
01:38:12,360 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

1510
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 1: Anyway, good luck, enjoy the rest of the holiday season,

1511
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 1: and I'll check back in closer we get to the election.

1512
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:21,760
Speaker 2: Good thank you.

1513
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:32,080
Speaker 1: Well as you saw there, I particularly enjoyed the What

1514
01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:35,720
Speaker 1: I loved about the conversation with Jack dan Forth was

1515
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:40,160
Speaker 1: a few things. One we talked a little bit about

1516
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 1: the judiciary. We talked a little bit about, uh, the

1517
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:46,880
Speaker 1: future of the filibuster, what would work, what didn't, And

1518
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: I was I appreciated his bluntness going don't do a

1519
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: constitutional convention. But that gets it something that we've talked

1520
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 1: about before, which is I'm not afraid of the voters

1521
01:38:56,840 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 1: and that always you know, I'm not saying we should

1522
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:02,200
Speaker 1: read right the Constitution, and I think that's where we

1523
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:05,840
Speaker 1: got a little bit back and forth on that. But

1524
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:09,680
Speaker 1: we desperately need to consider some serious amendments, and I

1525
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:12,840
Speaker 1: think collectively as a country, we could use this moment

1526
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:18,320
Speaker 1: to to have this conversation term limits, age limits, guardrails,

1527
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:20,920
Speaker 1: on the on, on the pardon, a balanced budget amendment,

1528
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: right like there's there's there's four or five things that

1529
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:26,920
Speaker 1: are about the infrastructure of the American democracy that I

1530
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 1: think are worth, are worth convening citizens. You know, you

1531
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 1: know we can take This is what the founders wanted

1532
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,839
Speaker 1: us to do and expected us to do. We shouldn't

1533
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:40,720
Speaker 1: wait for Congress, we shouldn't wait for a political leader.

1534
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:43,840
Speaker 1: We needed to do this, and maybe I need to

1535
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 1: stop asking others to do it and maybe put my

1536
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: own money where my mouth is. But let's get into

1537
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:49,240
Speaker 1: a few asks.

1538
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 2: Chucks, Ask Chuck.

1539
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 1: This question comes from Mike from the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio,

1540
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:00,599
Speaker 1: South Bloomfield, and he writes a jo in the podcast,

1541
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:02,640
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing your experience and perspective with regard to

1542
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:05,280
Speaker 1: the National Guard soldiers shot in Washington, DC. Is there

1543
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:07,680
Speaker 1: any indication that the FBI missed information in advance of

1544
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 1: this heinous act because they were distracted by immigration enforcement? Well, Mike,

1545
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:15,400
Speaker 1: I think it's an excellent question. There is plenty of

1546
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence that simply moving It's not just with the FBI,

1547
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: but it's also been with DHS that shifting resources to

1548
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: the President's deportation policy and focus on trying to essentially

1549
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:36,560
Speaker 1: find anybody they can to deport using any means necessary.

1550
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:40,720
Speaker 1: It's pretty clear that we know this that FBI resources

1551
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:44,720
Speaker 1: from counter terrorism has been sort of diverted into this.

1552
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 1: We know that DHS resources that are focused on other

1553
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:55,639
Speaker 1: things have been diverted into all things ice and essentially

1554
01:40:55,680 --> 01:41:00,640
Speaker 1: tracking down anybody that may be in this country that's documented.

1555
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: There's been plenty of anecdotal that we you know, you'd

1556
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 1: have to almost rely on more and more whistleblowers telling

1557
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:12,520
Speaker 1: us what's not being investigated versus what is being investigated.

1558
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:15,120
Speaker 1: I think over the next it's probably going to take

1559
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:16,880
Speaker 1: us a couple of years to know this for sure. Now,

1560
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:21,599
Speaker 1: maybe this investigation on sort of okay, what was you

1561
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:27,599
Speaker 1: know what, what did we know about this? Should there

1562
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 1: have been a unit of the FBI and counter in

1563
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 1: the counterintelligence unit that was sort of constantly keeping an

1564
01:41:34,240 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 1: eye on some of these Afghan refugees, considering that we

1565
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:44,320
Speaker 1: were concerned that that Taliba or essentially enemies of of

1566
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 1: of of the West, we're going to infiltrate. It's clear

1567
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:54,280
Speaker 1: that the vetting process fell down somewhere, but I don't

1568
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:56,640
Speaker 1: think it should get lost on anybody that you know,

1569
01:41:56,680 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 1: we're we're you know, we do this with there's not

1570
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 1: a shooting that happens now where we don't look for

1571
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 1: another reason to not talk about the gun issue, right,

1572
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 1: So it's in this case we want to talk about oh,

1573
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: vetting these Afghan nationals, We're not talking about mental health.

1574
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:16,680
Speaker 1: And yet it does seem as if this was a

1575
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:20,720
Speaker 1: huge mental health issue this guy. You know, it is

1576
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:25,360
Speaker 1: not easy going from the Afghan culture to the American culture.

1577
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 1: It sounds like he was having a lot of trouble.

1578
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:31,000
Speaker 1: Sounds like people are you know, and you know, how

1579
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:35,519
Speaker 1: much help do some of these refugee communities need in

1580
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:41,720
Speaker 1: making sure they can assimilate or if they're leaving a

1581
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 1: war torn area that they're not experiencing PTSD and things

1582
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: like this. I'm not looking for an excuse as to

1583
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 1: why this guy did it to me. You know, he

1584
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:52,679
Speaker 1: should be off the streets period, Right, that's not the issue.

1585
01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 1: But I hope we do a real after action report

1586
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,000
Speaker 1: here because I want to know all of those things, right.

1587
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: I want to know, has there been a unit of

1588
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 1: the FBI that was a little a bit more aggressive

1589
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 1: about keeping track in some of these refugee communities that

1590
01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:09,680
Speaker 1: have come from some of these places where we've been

1591
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: conducting counter terrorism measures. I want to know that. I

1592
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:18,719
Speaker 1: want to know what resources when we do settle these

1593
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 1: settle folks in these refugee communities, in these various communities

1594
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 1: that are willing to take refugees, whether it's the Twin

1595
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 1: Cities with Somalo, this was Bellingham, Washington. What kind of

1596
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: resources are we going back? Are we checking in? Are

1597
01:43:32,439 --> 01:43:37,120
Speaker 1: we making sure these folks are able to assimilate to

1598
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 1: our culture as best they can, navigate our culture as

1599
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:43,040
Speaker 1: best they can? You know, how are we helping to

1600
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,800
Speaker 1: integrate them? What does that look like? So I hope

1601
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 1: it's a you know, I hope our Congress looks at

1602
01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:52,040
Speaker 1: this in a sort of three hundred and sixty degrees

1603
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:56,760
Speaker 1: rather than just looking for the easiest path here, and

1604
01:43:56,800 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 1: the easiest path here is let's go vetting after annies

1605
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: and kick all immigrants out of the country, right, don't

1606
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: let any more asylum seekers in? Right? That that kind

1607
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 1: of obviously, isn't it? Sort of go? And by the way,

1608
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 1: if we want to live in a free country, you know,

1609
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 1: living in a free country means there's you know, if

1610
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 1: you want to live in a less free country, we

1611
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:22,280
Speaker 1: can have people constantly harassed invented. Right, what's the line

1612
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 1: that we want to have of having our own freedom

1613
01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:29,680
Speaker 1: and privacy and having security. Right you can have, you

1614
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:33,960
Speaker 1: can guarantee security, but it takes away freedom. So what's

1615
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:35,639
Speaker 1: that line that you're willing to do and we don't.

1616
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:40,720
Speaker 1: We don't always have that whole conversation, you know. I

1617
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 1: always say that's why, that's why God invented libertarians to

1618
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:48,040
Speaker 1: force us to have those conversations. Next question comes from

1619
01:44:48,120 --> 01:44:50,760
Speaker 1: Chris c and he writes, love the longer podcast format.

1620
01:44:50,760 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 1: It feels like I actually learned something. Oh, I appreciate it,

1621
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:56,000
Speaker 1: unlike the rapid fire style of most news shows. As

1622
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:58,720
Speaker 1: a Washington State grad, go Koog's I can't help but

1623
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:00,639
Speaker 1: feel like college football's broken.

1624
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:01,400
Speaker 2: Man.

1625
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:04,320
Speaker 1: I think about you guys all the time.

1626
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 2: I think it.

1627
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,240
Speaker 1: Drives me nuts. Well, let me finish your question. Between

1628
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:12,639
Speaker 1: realignment and il chaos, coaching turnover, and players constantly transferring,

1629
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 1: it's getting harder for fans to say connected. Maybe it's

1630
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:17,640
Speaker 1: just my Pacific Northwest perspective, but something feels like it

1631
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,920
Speaker 1: has to give before the sport loses its core appeal.

1632
01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: You know, Chris, this is what frustrates me about. First

1633
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 1: of all, they're obviously college football has to you know,

1634
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:29,960
Speaker 1: we need a commissioner, right, there needs to be somebody

1635
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 1: looking out for the sport, not entities, looking out for

1636
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:37,799
Speaker 1: universities and conferences. Right in theory, that's what they president

1637
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:39,639
Speaker 1: of the nc DOUBLEA could have been, should have been

1638
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:43,760
Speaker 1: that ship sailed and that ship shaaled decades ago. I

1639
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:47,080
Speaker 1: think Charlie Baker could be a terrific overseer of all this.

1640
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:52,400
Speaker 1: But you know, the NCUBA has no power over FBS football.

1641
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:54,680
Speaker 1: They have some power over Division two and Division one

1642
01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 1: f FCS, Division one Double A, they have no power

1643
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 1: over over that. Now, imagine if Congress said conferences, you

1644
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:09,760
Speaker 1: know what that that you know, Congress intervenes, and I

1645
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:14,719
Speaker 1: do think your concerns, I do think this is begging

1646
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:18,320
Speaker 1: for congressional intervention. And that's the thing, right, the beauty

1647
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 1: of a representative democracy is you have a Congressman in

1648
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:25,920
Speaker 1: Spokane who is seen that not you know, there was

1649
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:31,519
Speaker 1: you know, just willy nilly, the big ten USC and

1650
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:37,120
Speaker 1: Oregon got into bed together, YadA, YadA, YadA. Suddenly Washington

1651
01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 1: State can't compete on the highest level for college football.

1652
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:45,759
Speaker 1: Why why is there burrier to entry suddenly higher because

1653
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,320
Speaker 1: of a decision that USC made a decision that Oregon

1654
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:52,720
Speaker 1: made and a decision that the Big Ten made, And

1655
01:46:52,760 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 1: I guess we could say Oregon would have stayed had

1656
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 1: Washington stayed, right, You know, I know a couple of

1657
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:05,040
Speaker 1: versions of that backstory. But the point is I've long

1658
01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: thought that the strength of college football and why college

1659
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:11,719
Speaker 1: football was different, and I always thought kind of better

1660
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: than the NFL. I mean, trust me, the game itself

1661
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:16,360
Speaker 1: is great in the NFL, don't get me wrong. But

1662
01:47:16,479 --> 01:47:18,680
Speaker 1: what the beauty of college football is. It felt like

1663
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,639
Speaker 1: more people had more teams. You know, there was sort

1664
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 1: of it just was it was both more local and

1665
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: more accessible. And so, yeah, fifty thousand people would show

1666
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:33,400
Speaker 1: up in Spokane to see to see Washington State and

1667
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 1: Ryan Leaf play in a game that gets into the

1668
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 1: Rose Bowl. You know, I'm old enough to remember Mike

1669
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 1: Leach having a lot of fun as the coach of

1670
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 1: Washington State. Spokane is a great market for college football.

1671
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:52,600
Speaker 1: The advantage of college football over the NFL is the

1672
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:56,839
Speaker 1: NFL probably couldn't support a team in Spokane, but college

1673
01:47:56,840 --> 01:48:02,639
Speaker 1: football can't. Right, The NFL can't support a team and

1674
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 1: a team in is it Beaverton or corvallis excuse me Corvallis, Oregon.

1675
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:22,400
Speaker 1: But college football can Tallahassee, Florida, Tuscaloose, Alabama, Oxford, Mississippi, Fayetteville, Arkansas, Champagne, Illinois.

1676
01:48:22,479 --> 01:48:25,599
Speaker 1: You see where I'm going here. That's what's so great

1677
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: about college football. And frankly, the advantage that college football has,

1678
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:34,799
Speaker 1: right they have more markets where they have more devoted

1679
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:39,759
Speaker 1: fans in a variety of ways. And instead the powers

1680
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:42,120
Speaker 1: that be and the and the greed that's there with

1681
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:45,519
Speaker 1: with with what the conference has done is that it's

1682
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: every conference for themselves and they're trying to hoard the value.

1683
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 1: They're hoarding players, they're holding, hoarding TV money, and the

1684
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:56,120
Speaker 1: irony is what it's doing is And this is where

1685
01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 1: I love this guy. I think his name's Cody Campbell.

1686
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:03,160
Speaker 1: This is the the gentleman that's won the Sugar Daddy

1687
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:04,920
Speaker 1: for the Texas Tech football team. But too he's the

1688
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:09,960
Speaker 1: one that's been running these ads about about the old

1689
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: broadcast media rate. He's basically trying to get the TV

1690
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 1: negotiate to have all college football programs in Division one

1691
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 1: and FBS pool their TV rights together and it be

1692
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:25,720
Speaker 1: negotiated as one right, just like the NFL negotiates as

1693
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:28,559
Speaker 1: one and NBC gets a piece of the NFL, CBS

1694
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:31,000
Speaker 1: gets a piece, Fox gets a piece, Amazon gets a piece,

1695
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:36,200
Speaker 1: Netflix gets a piece, etc. And if college football did

1696
01:49:36,200 --> 01:49:40,719
Speaker 1: it that way, well, the Washington State could get more

1697
01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:45,559
Speaker 1: TV revenue if it was in the same negotiation pool

1698
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 1: of money as Oregon, Ohio State and Alabama and Notre Dame,

1699
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,760
Speaker 1: and it's one entity, and certainly, yes and all these

1700
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 1: different media entities would get a piece of the action.

1701
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,040
Speaker 1: But what you would have is you would actually have

1702
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:07,479
Speaker 1: more revenue coming in. You'd probably get collectively more money

1703
01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: the more you spliced it up. And instead, the SEC

1704
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:14,639
Speaker 1: negotiates and then ESPN plays them off of and then

1705
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:17,280
Speaker 1: of course they're willing to pay a premium for the SEC,

1706
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:19,800
Speaker 1: so they're going to try to cheap out on what

1707
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:23,200
Speaker 1: they'll pay the American Conference or what they'll pay the ACC,

1708
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 1: or they'll lock the ACC into this long term deal

1709
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:30,120
Speaker 1: because they realize because you know, they pulled one over

1710
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:35,280
Speaker 1: on the ACC commissioner who didn't realize how quickly the

1711
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:38,280
Speaker 1: valuation of these media rights were going to grow, and

1712
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 1: ESPN was going to be sitting with a bargain while

1713
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 1: they spent the money they saved from paying the ACC

1714
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:48,720
Speaker 1: to go ahead and pay the SEC. So look, I

1715
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 1: hate this. What really frustrates me is that there's a

1716
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:55,360
Speaker 1: simple solution. Pull all the TV money together, and I

1717
01:50:55,360 --> 01:50:58,639
Speaker 1: promise you everybody would have more money. Every program would

1718
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:00,720
Speaker 1: have more money than they have right now coming from

1719
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:05,519
Speaker 1: TV revenue, every single one. And that would and then

1720
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:08,240
Speaker 1: I think you would have the best of both worlds.

1721
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: You'd get relevant college football back and Spokane and Greg Sante,

1722
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:16,760
Speaker 1: and the SEC would has still have a whole bunch

1723
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:22,799
Speaker 1: of cash to you know, jump into, like like Donald

1724
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:26,559
Speaker 1: Duck jumping into his vat of money back in the

1725
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:32,040
Speaker 1: old cartoon days. All right, Next question, it's anonymous, but

1726
01:51:32,960 --> 01:51:36,679
Speaker 1: from a Notre Dame fan. With Trump's approval ratings continuing

1727
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: to slip and the midterms looking more and more bleak

1728
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:41,120
Speaker 1: for Republicans, do you think we will start to see

1729
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:45,400
Speaker 1: some justices of the Supreme Court announced their retirement? Thanks

1730
01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 1: and go Irish. By the way, I'm one of those

1731
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 1: who thinks Notre Dame in Miami both should be in

1732
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:54,519
Speaker 1: the playoff. Oklahoma and Alabama should be the ones fighting

1733
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:59,280
Speaker 1: for the last stop. But I will I will digress.

1734
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:04,240
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent believe this. I think that I

1735
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:07,360
Speaker 1: will be shocked if Clarence Thomas is a Supreme Court

1736
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 1: justice in twenty twenty seven. I think, given the current

1737
01:52:10,720 --> 01:52:14,600
Speaker 1: political environment, and frankly, if I'm going to be you know,

1738
01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to play political strategists for Republicans in the

1739
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:21,200
Speaker 1: White House, I would love nothing more to fire up

1740
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:25,280
Speaker 1: the Republican base than to have a open, have a

1741
01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justice debate and to be able to sort

1742
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:34,519
Speaker 1: of soak up sort of, you know, especially if this

1743
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:37,800
Speaker 1: is going to be not the best economic environment, not

1744
01:52:37,880 --> 01:52:40,600
Speaker 1: the best foreign policy environment, not the best moral and

1745
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 1: ethical environment, having you know, to go back to a

1746
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:47,360
Speaker 1: sort of a core, having a fighting for somebody to

1747
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:50,200
Speaker 1: be a Supreme Court justice, hoping that it, you know,

1748
01:52:51,160 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: bates the left into going, you know, sort of picking

1749
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 1: a fight that showcases parts of the left that are

1750
01:52:59,320 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 1: less popular with swing voters. There's a lot of reasons, oh,

1751
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:06,040
Speaker 1: by the way, the age of Thomas. But do you

1752
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:09,479
Speaker 1: want to risk a Democratic Senate coming in in twenty seven, right?

1753
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 1: You know, the chances of that are about if you

1754
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:14,840
Speaker 1: believe the political markets, the prediction markets, about one and

1755
01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:17,640
Speaker 1: three chance that that's going to happen. So if you

1756
01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:21,360
Speaker 1: want to guarantee this advantage that you currently have in

1757
01:53:21,400 --> 01:53:25,439
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. This you know, this is the calendar

1758
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:28,880
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty six, particularly the first essentially six months.

1759
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:32,240
Speaker 1: So I think this is a really smart question. I

1760
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: wish you'd put your name in there. I'm going to

1761
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:37,360
Speaker 1: give you extra credit because I think you have your

1762
01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 1: spot on and you know, both Thomas and Alito are

1763
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:46,880
Speaker 1: in the in the in the retirement zone. I think

1764
01:53:46,960 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 1: Thomas is more likely to do this. Alito, I think,

1765
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:51,840
Speaker 1: really enjoys the job, so I think he's going to

1766
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:56,880
Speaker 1: be harder to pry to convince to do this. I

1767
01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: think Clarence Thomas will be perfectly happy getting into his

1768
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: r and driving around the country to be if he

1769
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:06,840
Speaker 1: thinks he can be semi anonymous, which I think you

1770
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:12,400
Speaker 1: might enjoy that. So now I'm sorry, I haven't thought

1771
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:15,519
Speaker 1: about this, but I think you're onto something. And again

1772
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:18,960
Speaker 1: you're remaining nameless. But extra credit. Thank you for the

1773
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:23,840
Speaker 1: great nugget. Next question comes from Chase Carmichael, Little Rock, Arkansas.

1774
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:25,800
Speaker 1: I say, chuck, you and Sarah Esker recently said that

1775
01:54:25,840 --> 01:54:29,519
Speaker 1: dismantling political parties has actually increased partisanship, which sounds backwards

1776
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:31,479
Speaker 1: from here in red state country, where everything still feels

1777
01:54:31,560 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: very party driven. Can you walk us through how weaker

1778
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:36,280
Speaker 1: parties lead to stronger partisans If you take this one,

1779
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:38,160
Speaker 1: I'm declaring myself the charter member of the ash Chuck

1780
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:40,400
Speaker 1: five Timers Club. And yes I'm buying a jacket. I

1781
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 1: love it, And yes we've taken this question. So congratulations,

1782
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:48,320
Speaker 1: welcome to the ashchuk five Timers Club. Like I said,

1783
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,440
Speaker 1: I can't wait till my friend Sarah Esker becomes in

1784
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 1: five timer. I think if I go back to my

1785
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 1: night I meet the press podcasting days, I think we're

1786
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 1: up to She's been on three times. So I appreciate

1787
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:07,160
Speaker 1: you asking this so that we could clarify. So here's

1788
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:11,960
Speaker 1: what we mean by weaker parties. So, when McCain fine

1789
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,680
Speaker 1: Gold passed this was the bipartisan campaign finance Reform. It's

1790
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:20,560
Speaker 1: the biggest reform it made was limiting the amount of

1791
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 1: money political parties could raise in large chunks. Okay, it

1792
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:30,520
Speaker 1: was called soft money. Back then you'll hear references to

1793
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:33,080
Speaker 1: soft money and hard money. And hard money means you

1794
01:55:33,120 --> 01:55:38,040
Speaker 1: can essentially coordinate with campaigns and candidates. Soft money. You

1795
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 1: can't spend directly on candidate advocacy, but you can spend

1796
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 1: it on like operations. You know, you can spend it

1797
01:55:44,200 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 1: on get out the vote costs. You can spend it

1798
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:54,879
Speaker 1: on office supply stuff. I mean literally, you know, anything

1799
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:59,360
Speaker 1: other than direct advocacy for the candidate. And so when

1800
01:55:59,440 --> 01:56:03,200
Speaker 1: the when the parties were so here's here's why it

1801
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:05,880
Speaker 1: turned out to weaken the parties when you were when

1802
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:09,520
Speaker 1: you're a candidate running for office, and look, I understand

1803
01:56:09,560 --> 01:56:12,320
Speaker 1: what you're saying in Arkansas, and that if you're in this, look,

1804
01:56:12,440 --> 01:56:16,800
Speaker 1: parties have. The more local a political party is, there

1805
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:20,600
Speaker 1: are places where it is still strong because you've got

1806
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:22,680
Speaker 1: to go through the party if you want to maybe

1807
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:24,640
Speaker 1: get ballot access, or you've got to go through the

1808
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:28,800
Speaker 1: local party if you want to you know, get make

1809
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 1: sure you're getting invited to all the key you know,

1810
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:32,800
Speaker 1: because some of these are you know, you've got to

1811
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:36,120
Speaker 1: talk to the super advocates, activists and the super voters

1812
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:39,240
Speaker 1: in a local community. So parties certainly have I mean,

1813
01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:41,760
Speaker 1: I think about the county. I live in Arlington County.

1814
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 1: The Arlington County Democrats are are a pretty powerful local entity.

1815
01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:53,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes behaving a little small, d undemocratic, and some of

1816
01:56:53,960 --> 01:56:58,040
Speaker 1: their aggressive tactics. But the point is the party is

1817
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:00,840
Speaker 1: if you want to run for local office and you

1818
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:02,880
Speaker 1: want to be on the county board, you try to

1819
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 1: go around the party, you're gonna have a hard time. Well,

1820
01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:10,480
Speaker 1: the national parties had that kind of hold for a

1821
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:14,280
Speaker 1: long time before the passage of McCain. Fine Gold. This

1822
01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:18,040
Speaker 1: is one of those where good intentions. So when you're

1823
01:57:18,040 --> 01:57:20,640
Speaker 1: a Senate Canaider, a presidential candidate and you needed money,

1824
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:23,040
Speaker 1: you had to go through the party. So what does

1825
01:57:23,040 --> 01:57:25,160
Speaker 1: that mean, Well, that gives the party leverage over you.

1826
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:31,480
Speaker 1: So take Donald Trump's attack on John McCain and writes

1827
01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:33,520
Speaker 1: previous at the time was chairman of the RNC, and

1828
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:37,080
Speaker 1: he denounced Donald Trump for that, and he said that Republican.

1829
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:40,480
Speaker 1: You know, John McCain's a republicly in good standing. You know,

1830
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump knew he had to go through the

1831
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:47,560
Speaker 1: party in order to get, you know, access to donors

1832
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:51,600
Speaker 1: and get these things, the party could say, you know, no,

1833
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:53,400
Speaker 1: we're not going to fund your candidacy. And if you

1834
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:56,440
Speaker 1: couldn't get funded and you had to your your reliance

1835
01:57:56,560 --> 01:58:00,920
Speaker 1: was unfunding or volunteers was through the party, and the

1836
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:04,080
Speaker 1: party was not going to help you, then you've essentially

1837
01:58:04,120 --> 01:58:07,200
Speaker 1: been purged by the party. Right, Yes, you can go around,

1838
01:58:07,280 --> 01:58:09,240
Speaker 1: but it's much harder to run third party. It's much

1839
01:58:09,280 --> 01:58:11,480
Speaker 1: harder to get on a ballot in a place where

1840
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:14,360
Speaker 1: the party controls access to the ballot and things like that.

1841
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:19,320
Speaker 1: And when they took away the biggest thing that the

1842
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 1: parties had to offer candidates money and access to it,

1843
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:28,200
Speaker 1: when it became where the candidates themselves where essentially could

1844
01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:31,360
Speaker 1: go find their own essentially build their own political parties, right,

1845
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:33,840
Speaker 1: find their own sugar daddy. We call them super PACs now.

1846
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:37,320
Speaker 1: But that's essentially what happened. So it doesn't change like

1847
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:39,600
Speaker 1: we you know, it's still the red versus the blue,

1848
01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:42,680
Speaker 1: but it weakened parties. I mean, it is the strangest

1849
01:58:42,720 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 1: conundrum to me. Right, we've were more polarized today, right,

1850
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:47,480
Speaker 1: And as part of it is because our politics is

1851
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:51,720
Speaker 1: very negative, meaning you're constantly being told who you shouldn't

1852
01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:55,160
Speaker 1: vote for. Nobody's being nobody really is running for officing

1853
01:58:55,160 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 1: what they want to do for you. Instead, they're running

1854
01:58:57,480 --> 01:58:59,320
Speaker 1: for office telling you what that other person's going to

1855
01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, screw how that other person's going to screw you.

1856
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:04,280
Speaker 1: So it created you know, we're sort of negative. We

1857
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:08,280
Speaker 1: have negative partisanship where people don't like the two parties

1858
01:59:08,840 --> 01:59:13,000
Speaker 1: but they but they're really devoted to not liking one

1859
01:59:13,000 --> 01:59:15,480
Speaker 1: of the two parties. Right, And that's there there, it's

1860
01:59:15,480 --> 01:59:18,680
Speaker 1: almost like bizarro Superman. Right, you have Superman bizarro Superman.

1861
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,200
Speaker 1: You're on the bizarro You're a bizarro Democrat. You're not

1862
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:24,360
Speaker 1: pro Democrat, you're just anti Republican. You're a bizarro Republican.

1863
01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:27,480
Speaker 1: You're not pro Republican, you're just anti Democrat. And that's

1864
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:31,600
Speaker 1: what we've become. But taking money away from the party

1865
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:34,600
Speaker 1: as an institution or as an organization where you had

1866
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:36,880
Speaker 1: to go through the party to get access to ballot

1867
01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:42,320
Speaker 1: and it gave the party the ability to essentially keep

1868
01:59:42,360 --> 01:59:48,920
Speaker 1: the David Dukes out or keep the the Lindon Larushi's

1869
01:59:48,960 --> 01:59:50,640
Speaker 1: out right, And every once in a while, those those

1870
01:59:50,680 --> 01:59:53,960
Speaker 1: people did sneak in. But for the most part, that

1871
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:57,000
Speaker 1: is what's allowed party, what it allowed parties to do that.

1872
01:59:57,080 --> 02:00:00,440
Speaker 1: And that's that's what Sarah and I or learning too.

1873
02:00:08,480 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 1: I love that my college football rants have have have

1874
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:17,840
Speaker 1: seeped into enough of my little ecosystem here that I

1875
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 1: feel like almost every question that we get has some

1876
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:27,480
Speaker 1: reference to college football these days. So obviously I expressed

1877
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:32,280
Speaker 1: before my frustration and anger at the ACC because ultimately

1878
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,600
Speaker 1: I cannot believe the position that the ACC finds them in,

1879
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:40,760
Speaker 1: and as a is somebody who's a supporter, a donor,

1880
02:00:41,240 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 1: a booster of the University of Miami athletic department. I am, Okay,

1881
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 1: I'm putting all my cards out there. I am. I've

1882
02:00:49,320 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: loved them since I was a kid. I've my daughter

1883
02:00:53,720 --> 02:00:55,920
Speaker 1: is going to be a graduating scene, so yeah, I am.

1884
02:00:56,080 --> 02:01:01,800
Speaker 1: And yes I write checks. Okay, I I am. I

1885
02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:05,080
Speaker 1: am a booster. I am not a I'm for those

1886
02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:07,200
Speaker 1: of you that know Miami football, I'm not Nevan Shapiro

1887
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:12,640
Speaker 1: level booster. Okay, I'm I'm a middle class booster h

1888
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:17,400
Speaker 1: in the in that world. So I consider myself though

1889
02:01:17,440 --> 02:01:19,400
Speaker 1: a shareholder. This is the way I would look at it.

1890
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:22,800
Speaker 1: I feel that kind of I feel like I have

1891
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:26,600
Speaker 1: some uh and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm sure

1892
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:30,080
Speaker 1: other people who support their support college, their favorite college

1893
02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:34,120
Speaker 1: football program may feel the same way. And I'm just

1894
02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 1: appalled at the treatment the ACC has given its members.

1895
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:44,280
Speaker 1: It is I think the ACC's lack of you know,

1896
02:01:44,480 --> 02:01:48,120
Speaker 1: they they didn't just not support Florida State when Florida

1897
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:53,000
Speaker 1: State got jobbed by ESPN two years ago, and I

1898
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:56,880
Speaker 1: love there was this d're in the there's a question

1899
02:01:56,920 --> 02:01:58,880
Speaker 1: about whether Old miss should be dropped out of the

1900
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:00,840
Speaker 1: playoffs since they lost their head coach in Lane Kiffin,

1901
02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:06,400
Speaker 1: And the chairman of the committee said, well, we don't

1902
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:09,520
Speaker 1: have a data point. We can't see how they play. Yeah,

1903
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:11,000
Speaker 1: because they're not going to play another game unless they

1904
02:02:11,080 --> 02:02:15,400
Speaker 1: play in the playoff. Well, Florida State played two games

1905
02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:19,720
Speaker 1: one both of their games without their quarterback. But they said, well,

1906
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 1: even though they won, we still don't think they can

1907
02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 1: be competitive. It was look, I know what they were

1908
02:02:26,520 --> 02:02:28,680
Speaker 1: worried about. They were worried that Florida State was actually

1909
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:32,560
Speaker 1: going to beat Michigan in a game that was nine

1910
02:02:32,600 --> 02:02:34,960
Speaker 1: to seven because the Florida State defense was so good

1911
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:37,640
Speaker 1: and the Michigan defense was so good that it wasn't

1912
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 1: gonna be very entertaining, and that if they ended up winning,

1913
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:42,080
Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't be able to keep up with their

1914
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:44,720
Speaker 1: Georgia or keep up with the I think that was

1915
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:47,840
Speaker 1: the other The other team in that one. Oh they did.

1916
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:52,720
Speaker 1: They took Alabama in Texas instead of Florida State. But

1917
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:58,200
Speaker 1: you know it is the ACC did really barely lifted

1918
02:02:58,200 --> 02:03:02,000
Speaker 1: a finger in defending that with Florida State. And remember,

1919
02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:06,480
Speaker 1: everybody in the conference gets a piece of this postseason

1920
02:03:06,560 --> 02:03:10,200
Speaker 1: Bowl money, so the ACC really, this is why I

1921
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:13,320
Speaker 1: hold the leadership so account. I mean, look, no offense

1922
02:03:13,360 --> 02:03:15,760
Speaker 1: to do by the way. I love Manidaz. I know

1923
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:18,720
Speaker 1: him a little bit. I think the way that I

1924
02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:22,680
Speaker 1: hate the way he was shown the door down in Miami.

1925
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:26,560
Speaker 1: He was basically you know, and so I know he is.

1926
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:29,840
Speaker 1: You know, he loves the karma that he got to

1927
02:03:29,880 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 1: the ACC title game before Crystal Ball did. But basically,

1928
02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 1: all these donors said they weren't going to donate money

1929
02:03:37,560 --> 02:03:39,480
Speaker 1: if many Diaz was a coach, but they would donate

1930
02:03:39,520 --> 02:03:41,200
Speaker 1: money if Mario Cristo Baal was the coach. So it's

1931
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 1: just I hated the way that that happened. I'm glad

1932
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:46,720
Speaker 1: to see that there's real money now being invested in

1933
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 1: this football program. There hasn't been for twenty years. So

1934
02:03:50,560 --> 02:03:52,440
Speaker 1: but I've been torn about it because I think many

1935
02:03:52,440 --> 02:03:55,800
Speaker 1: Diaz is a good dude. I think he loves that university.

1936
02:03:56,040 --> 02:03:58,680
Speaker 1: I know he loves you know, And yeah, I felt

1937
02:03:58,760 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 1: I felt my own little connection and I are about

1938
02:04:00,560 --> 02:04:03,160
Speaker 1: the same age. We both grew up, you know. Our

1939
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:05,320
Speaker 1: love for the unuscery of Miami was sort of kate

1940
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:07,280
Speaker 1: because we were we were of that age when we

1941
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:10,000
Speaker 1: were kids growing up in Miami. I didn't know them

1942
02:04:10,040 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 1: growing up, but I did. I always felt a bit

1943
02:04:13,960 --> 02:04:17,080
Speaker 1: of a bond with him. So I'm personally really happy

1944
02:04:17,080 --> 02:04:21,120
Speaker 1: for Manidiaz and I'm like, you know, I'm smiling for

1945
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:24,400
Speaker 1: him because i know he's you know, there's a little

1946
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:26,800
Speaker 1: bit of you know, how do you like me now?

1947
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:31,879
Speaker 1: Type of mindset there. So I don't want to denigrate

1948
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:35,560
Speaker 1: Duke's football program, but I'm going to denigrate Duke's football program.

1949
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:38,440
Speaker 1: They have no they have no business being in this game.

1950
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:41,040
Speaker 1: And I think, deep down inside, Manidiez knows they have

1951
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 1: no business being in this game. Now, Look, the rules

1952
02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:47,080
Speaker 1: are the rules, and the ridiculous tiebreakers that the conference

1953
02:04:47,160 --> 02:04:49,560
Speaker 1: decided to create to deal with their seventeen teams and

1954
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:52,600
Speaker 1: their conference is what it was. Well, what are you

1955
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:55,480
Speaker 1: thinking you had an opportunity to have your two ten

1956
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 1: and two teams face off? In here. But you created

1957
02:04:59,320 --> 02:05:03,200
Speaker 1: a convolution system where your overall strength of schedule, your

1958
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:09,280
Speaker 1: non conference schedule, has no impact over in a tiebreaker situation.

1959
02:05:10,240 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 1: That's just stupid. It really is stupid. And I have

1960
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:18,480
Speaker 1: to tell you if the ACC ends up getting completely

1961
02:05:18,520 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 1: shut out of the College FOOTBA Playoff because Duke wins

1962
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:24,960
Speaker 1: this game and then James Madison and Tulane both end

1963
02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:28,440
Speaker 1: up in the playoff, because it's the five highest ranked

1964
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:32,760
Speaker 1: conference champions, there's no guarantee for the Power four conferences.

1965
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:35,560
Speaker 1: The assumption was all the Power four conferences would have

1966
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:38,960
Speaker 1: somebody that would be in that top five. Remember last year,

1967
02:05:38,960 --> 02:05:42,840
Speaker 1: Clemson didn't get the buy the five conference champions. The

1968
02:05:42,840 --> 02:05:45,440
Speaker 1: bys went to the four highest ranked conference champions in

1969
02:05:45,480 --> 02:05:48,120
Speaker 1: Boise State. I believe got the buy, not Clemson, right,

1970
02:05:48,160 --> 02:05:51,440
Speaker 1: because Clemson shouldn't have been in there. That's another one

1971
02:05:51,600 --> 02:05:54,920
Speaker 1: for their weird tiebreaker situation. Last year's the two highest

1972
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:58,720
Speaker 1: ranked ACC teams were Miami and SMU. They should have

1973
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:02,560
Speaker 1: faced off, but they created a system that a lot.

1974
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 1: And what I want to say to the ACC is,

1975
02:06:05,200 --> 02:06:07,720
Speaker 1: do you want to make your members any money? Do

1976
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:11,680
Speaker 1: you want to have to stop ESPN screwing you? All

1977
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:15,120
Speaker 1: the time with its coverage of the SEC versus how

1978
02:06:15,120 --> 02:06:17,520
Speaker 1: they treat you as a business partner. And that's what

1979
02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:21,040
Speaker 1: I don't get and I have to tell you, I

1980
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:24,000
Speaker 1: think there's a strong argument to be made that Miami,

1981
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:28,920
Speaker 1: Florida State, SMU, Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia Tech to

1982
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:33,320
Speaker 1: say we're out. Maybe I'd bring a Georgia Tech in

1983
02:06:33,320 --> 02:06:37,480
Speaker 1: Atlanta and Callen Stanford. I go and just get out

1984
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 1: of the s ACC. Form your own sort of negotiate

1985
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:44,520
Speaker 1: your own TV contract. There's other TV contracts out there.

1986
02:06:44,640 --> 02:06:48,560
Speaker 1: I think you can get a better deal each Each

1987
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: school would get more money than what they're getting out

1988
02:06:51,080 --> 02:06:52,800
Speaker 1: of there because you wouldn't have to have the the

1989
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, the the weaker football programs that don't generate

1990
02:06:56,440 --> 02:07:01,680
Speaker 1: much revenue from the for the ACC, and just get

1991
02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:03,880
Speaker 1: out of the ACC because the ACC is not looking

1992
02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:08,320
Speaker 1: Miami can't sustain being a major power in football stuck

1993
02:07:08,360 --> 02:07:10,480
Speaker 1: in the ACC. They either have to get out and

1994
02:07:10,520 --> 02:07:13,200
Speaker 1: become an independent again, go join one of the two

1995
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:16,720
Speaker 1: major conferences, or see if there's a third way here.

1996
02:07:17,120 --> 02:07:20,000
Speaker 1: Because it's clear and lets you know that unless unlet's

1997
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:23,720
Speaker 1: the university Presidency of ACC realize that they have that

1998
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 1: this has been a catastrophic failure of leadership by the conference,

1999
02:07:29,680 --> 02:07:34,840
Speaker 1: just catastrophic, costing every school millions of dollars. That's the

2000
02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:38,560
Speaker 1: thing here. This is not just angry fan Chuck Todd here,

2001
02:07:39,280 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm looking. This is a financial thing. This is hurting

2002
02:07:42,200 --> 02:07:45,840
Speaker 1: the bottom line. This is costing every member of the

2003
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:49,480
Speaker 1: conference money, and that trickles down. It's going to hurt

2004
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:52,000
Speaker 1: in your ability to compete for players. It's going to

2005
02:07:52,120 --> 02:07:54,600
Speaker 1: hurt your ability to convince players to come if they

2006
02:07:55,080 --> 02:07:57,960
Speaker 1: be getting into the college football playoff matters. None of

2007
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:01,000
Speaker 1: it is helpful, and I'd like to see a little

2008
02:08:01,160 --> 02:08:03,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more urgency from the university presidents of

2009
02:08:03,960 --> 02:08:06,320
Speaker 1: the of the football programs that care in the a CEC.

2010
02:08:06,480 --> 02:08:08,280
Speaker 1: And that's part of the problem. It's only about half

2011
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:10,920
Speaker 1: the conference that does. The other half doesn't give a shit,

2012
02:08:11,160 --> 02:08:15,080
Speaker 1: which is why you know there isn't more anger at

2013
02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:17,040
Speaker 1: at the leader of the at the commissioner of the

2014
02:08:17,080 --> 02:08:20,480
Speaker 1: a CEC. But that's got to change. Now let's go

2015
02:08:20,520 --> 02:08:26,880
Speaker 1: to the rankings. I you know, the perception of the

2016
02:08:26,920 --> 02:08:30,960
Speaker 1: SEC versus the reality the SEC really frustrates me. Oklahoma,

2017
02:08:31,040 --> 02:08:34,480
Speaker 1: I mean Oaklahm and Alabama are just being automatically assumed

2018
02:08:34,480 --> 02:08:37,520
Speaker 1: to be you know, there they are their locks, but

2019
02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:42,800
Speaker 1: Notre Dame in Miami less, So what what's the what? Where?

2020
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:46,160
Speaker 1: Where is Alabama? They've played one good half of football,

2021
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:50,040
Speaker 1: the first half against Georgia. They almost pissed that game away.

2022
02:08:50,160 --> 02:08:53,360
Speaker 1: I think they scored three points the entire second half

2023
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:58,000
Speaker 1: of that game, or maybe zero if memory serves. Let's

2024
02:08:58,000 --> 02:08:59,800
Speaker 1: just say, i'm i'm I'm hoping for a two or

2025
02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:02,480
Speaker 1: three score Georgia win on this one. If I think,

2026
02:09:02,480 --> 02:09:05,520
Speaker 1: if they expose Alabama for being who they've mostly been,

2027
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:08,600
Speaker 1: which is kind of a more like they were last year.

2028
02:09:09,080 --> 02:09:12,080
Speaker 1: You know, they've shown flashes of being a good playoff

2029
02:09:12,120 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 1: caliber team, but not that many. But again, they carry

2030
02:09:16,680 --> 02:09:21,640
Speaker 1: a brand name Oklahoma. My god, all right, look they've

2031
02:09:21,680 --> 02:09:26,280
Speaker 1: got some good wins, right it? But who wants to

2032
02:09:26,320 --> 02:09:30,720
Speaker 1: watch that putrid offense? And you know, kind of like

2033
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:35,000
Speaker 1: Miami last year, the you know, the best on the field.

2034
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:37,200
Speaker 1: You know, the best argument against Miami was, yeah, they

2035
02:09:37,200 --> 02:09:39,560
Speaker 1: have a great offense, they don't have a championship defense.

2036
02:09:39,640 --> 02:09:43,920
Speaker 1: So if they're on the bubble, no, well that to

2037
02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:46,320
Speaker 1: me is Oklahoma. They have a championship defense, but they

2038
02:09:46,320 --> 02:09:48,520
Speaker 1: don't have a championship offense and it's not even close,

2039
02:09:49,400 --> 02:09:51,200
Speaker 1: and they're you know, there may might win a game,

2040
02:09:51,240 --> 02:09:54,880
Speaker 1: but you know, depending on a matchup, that's it. So

2041
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:57,440
Speaker 1: if you're gonna hold Miami to account like that, that's

2042
02:09:57,480 --> 02:10:00,000
Speaker 1: the way Oklahoma should be held to account. But they

2043
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,920
Speaker 1: they've got their magical victory against Alabama, and it's like

2044
02:10:03,000 --> 02:10:05,520
Speaker 1: pay no attention, you know, you know, it's like a

2045
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:07,960
Speaker 1: Jedi mind trick, right, just like Alabama has this victory

2046
02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:10,480
Speaker 1: over Georgia and it's like, never mind the Jedi mind trick.

2047
02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:13,200
Speaker 1: And then there's this total like perception that the ACC

2048
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:18,200
Speaker 1: is garbage. Well, this garbage conference. Georgia Tech was one

2049
02:10:18,200 --> 02:10:20,360
Speaker 1: score game, had a chance to win that game in

2050
02:10:20,400 --> 02:10:22,520
Speaker 1: the last five minutes of the fourth quarter against Georgia.

2051
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:27,200
Speaker 1: Louisville blows out Kentucky, a team that took Texas to overtime.

2052
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:35,720
Speaker 1: You had Clemson whipping South Carolina. You've had If you

2053
02:10:35,760 --> 02:10:39,840
Speaker 1: compare Miami and Alabama, they have one common opponent, Florida State.

2054
02:10:41,040 --> 02:10:46,800
Speaker 1: Miami b Florida State. Alabama lost Florida State. So it

2055
02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:50,320
Speaker 1: is it is frustrating to me that it is Miami

2056
02:10:50,360 --> 02:10:53,560
Speaker 1: and Notre Dame that are in this sort of shootout

2057
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:58,000
Speaker 1: with each other when realistically they both probably belong and

2058
02:10:58,080 --> 02:11:01,280
Speaker 1: in fact, you want to know the single highest rated

2059
02:11:01,280 --> 02:11:04,000
Speaker 1: first round game you would have in the playoff. I mean,

2060
02:11:04,040 --> 02:11:07,120
Speaker 1: if this truly is a TV show and ESPN executives

2061
02:11:07,120 --> 02:11:09,680
Speaker 1: are just thinking about ratings, how about an eight to

2062
02:11:09,760 --> 02:11:12,440
Speaker 1: nine matchup of Notre Dame at Miami at South Bend

2063
02:11:13,600 --> 02:11:16,840
Speaker 1: and let's settle it. Let's settle this debate right here

2064
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 1: and there. Now, the possibility of that, I think is

2065
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:26,280
Speaker 1: very very low. It does appear that. Look, if Alabama

2066
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:30,160
Speaker 1: and BYU get blown out, you know, both lose by

2067
02:11:30,240 --> 02:11:34,000
Speaker 1: two or more scores. I think there's a scenario that

2068
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:41,240
Speaker 1: both Miami and Notre Dame get in, but that's in

2069
02:11:43,440 --> 02:11:47,400
Speaker 1: that's I think that's a long shot. Now, if you

2070
02:11:47,480 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 1: tell me that Notre Dame and Miami are ranked right

2071
02:11:50,080 --> 02:11:55,200
Speaker 1: next to each other, Let's say Alabama gets blown out

2072
02:11:55,200 --> 02:11:57,480
Speaker 1: and it's Notre Dame at ten Miami at eleven, or

2073
02:11:57,480 --> 02:12:03,480
Speaker 1: they're back to back, and let's say Duke does win

2074
02:12:03,520 --> 02:12:05,120
Speaker 1: that game and they're not going to make the playoff,

2075
02:12:05,200 --> 02:12:09,640
Speaker 1: and ACC is going to get shut out and they're

2076
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:14,520
Speaker 1: leaving Miami on the cutting room floor and taking Notre Dame.

2077
02:12:14,640 --> 02:12:17,200
Speaker 1: I think that's going I actually think that won't happen, right,

2078
02:12:17,200 --> 02:12:19,680
Speaker 1: I think that there's a So I'm not saying I'm

2079
02:12:19,680 --> 02:12:22,000
Speaker 1: optimistic Mimi's going to make the playoff, but I think

2080
02:12:22,040 --> 02:12:24,760
Speaker 1: the chances are about one. I saw the odds are

2081
02:12:24,840 --> 02:12:26,480
Speaker 1: sort of five to one. I think the odd should

2082
02:12:26,480 --> 02:12:33,000
Speaker 1: be about three to one because I think under you know, shoot,

2083
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:36,720
Speaker 1: if I'm not convinced that if BYU beats Texas Tech,

2084
02:12:36,760 --> 02:12:39,320
Speaker 1: that Texas Tech is a playoff team, I know some

2085
02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:42,360
Speaker 1: people are, so I think regardless, I think if the

2086
02:12:42,840 --> 02:12:45,840
Speaker 1: loser of the Big twelve game has a shot at

2087
02:12:46,120 --> 02:12:51,880
Speaker 1: not making it the playoff at all. It all depends,

2088
02:12:51,880 --> 02:12:54,920
Speaker 1: I think, on the margin of Georgia and Alabama. So

2089
02:12:55,000 --> 02:13:01,400
Speaker 1: I'm I am, I'm frustrated. I don't know what this

2090
02:13:01,440 --> 02:13:04,640
Speaker 1: committee is watching. I think if you set the precedent

2091
02:13:04,720 --> 02:13:07,480
Speaker 1: that head to head doesn't matter, then what the hell

2092
02:13:07,520 --> 02:13:12,680
Speaker 1: are we doing? It will make scheduling interconference games that

2093
02:13:12,800 --> 02:13:15,560
Speaker 1: much harder. If you make these head to heads not

2094
02:13:15,600 --> 02:13:18,240
Speaker 1: only not matter as a positive, but end up like

2095
02:13:18,320 --> 02:13:22,080
Speaker 1: it feels like it's a negative. Right, you risk a

2096
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:25,520
Speaker 1: loss where the loss could punish you, but but the

2097
02:13:25,520 --> 02:13:27,880
Speaker 1: wind doesn't get you anything. I mean, this is the

2098
02:13:27,920 --> 02:13:30,800
Speaker 1: logic of the college football Playoff Committee just drives me nuts.

2099
02:13:31,080 --> 02:13:33,280
Speaker 1: The idea that a loss matters more than a win,

2100
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:38,280
Speaker 1: because basically, in all of these scenarios, when they're differentiating

2101
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:41,200
Speaker 1: these teams, they're trying to make the case, well, this

2102
02:13:41,320 --> 02:13:47,080
Speaker 1: is a better loss. Your losses are crappier than their losses. Well,

2103
02:13:47,120 --> 02:13:50,160
Speaker 1: you know this is like I rolled my eyes when

2104
02:13:50,200 --> 02:13:56,160
Speaker 1: the rationale the guy gave for Alabama for Alabama getting

2105
02:13:56,160 --> 02:13:57,680
Speaker 1: moved ahead of Notre Dame was boy, they were in

2106
02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:01,440
Speaker 1: a tough rivalry game on the road and Stauburn. Well

2107
02:14:01,480 --> 02:14:04,840
Speaker 1: you know what frustrates me is Miami just gets you know,

2108
02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:06,880
Speaker 1: their two losses are just getting well, they just lost

2109
02:14:06,920 --> 02:14:10,080
Speaker 1: to a couple of medioc acc teams. Well, maybe what

2110
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:11,720
Speaker 1: you don't know is that the Louisville game is a

2111
02:14:11,760 --> 02:14:14,520
Speaker 1: freaking trophy game, all right. And it's a trophy because

2112
02:14:14,560 --> 02:14:16,640
Speaker 1: Louisville wanted to make a trophy game. It's for the

2113
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:21,000
Speaker 1: Howard Schnellenberger Trophy because Howard Snellenberger coach both teams. Well, look,

2114
02:14:21,040 --> 02:14:25,800
Speaker 1: Miami doesn't Miami does not see Louisville's arrival. Louisville. Literally,

2115
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:28,240
Speaker 1: Miami is the second most important football program they play

2116
02:14:28,280 --> 02:14:31,520
Speaker 1: after Kentucky. And I would bet that the Louisville football

2117
02:14:31,560 --> 02:14:34,440
Speaker 1: partisans would say the Miami game means more to them.

2118
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:36,760
Speaker 1: They lobbied the ACC to make Miami one of their

2119
02:14:37,480 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 1: every year opponents. That's how important Miami is this to

2120
02:14:41,800 --> 02:14:46,240
Speaker 1: Louisville's status. So sorry if you don't think much of

2121
02:14:46,400 --> 02:14:50,080
Speaker 1: the ACC. But Louisville cared so much about that game.

2122
02:14:50,120 --> 02:14:53,720
Speaker 1: They put everything, you know, half their season was devoted

2123
02:14:53,760 --> 02:14:56,040
Speaker 1: to trying to win the Miami game. Did it with

2124
02:14:56,160 --> 02:15:00,320
Speaker 1: SMU So you know, I'm not I'm not gonna look

2125
02:15:00,400 --> 02:15:02,840
Speaker 1: Mimi should have won both games. They blew it. Okay,

2126
02:15:02,920 --> 02:15:06,840
Speaker 1: they absolutely blew it. But if you're going to sit

2127
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:11,240
Speaker 1: here and rationalize all these other you know, oh boy,

2128
02:15:11,240 --> 02:15:13,720
Speaker 1: the SEC and these tough games, and boy boy Texas

2129
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: A and M good for them for pulling out a

2130
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:19,160
Speaker 1: game against South Carolina team that loses to Clemson, who's

2131
02:15:19,200 --> 02:15:21,600
Speaker 1: one of you know, a mid level sort of you know,

2132
02:15:21,880 --> 02:15:24,160
Speaker 1: wasn't even good enough to tie Duke in the conference

2133
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:30,520
Speaker 1: in the conference standings. That it's this is because we

2134
02:15:30,600 --> 02:15:35,360
Speaker 1: have created this perception that whatever happens in the SEC

2135
02:15:35,520 --> 02:15:38,400
Speaker 1: is amazing, and if the same things happen in other

2136
02:15:38,440 --> 02:15:41,240
Speaker 1: conferences is proof that that conference is weak. But when

2137
02:15:41,280 --> 02:15:43,800
Speaker 1: it happens in the SEC, it's proof that the SEC

2138
02:15:43,880 --> 02:15:46,880
Speaker 1: is tough. It's just a bunch of nonsense. And when

2139
02:15:46,880 --> 02:15:49,480
Speaker 1: you're not a member, and every one of my friends

2140
02:15:49,480 --> 02:15:52,600
Speaker 1: who are SEC people, they all drink this SEC kool aid,

2141
02:15:53,480 --> 02:15:57,680
Speaker 1: and you're just like, Okay, you know what. Miami just

2142
02:15:57,760 --> 02:16:01,160
Speaker 1: went on the road beat pitt in cold Yeah. Often,

2143
02:16:01,160 --> 02:16:04,640
Speaker 1: Miami's done that. I can't remember them ever playing a

2144
02:16:04,680 --> 02:16:08,320
Speaker 1: game that well in that cold weather. But did this

2145
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:13,040
Speaker 1: committee think that was an impressive showing anyway? It just

2146
02:16:13,360 --> 02:16:17,600
Speaker 1: it's it's a bunch of bias bullshit. This committee is

2147
02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:22,520
Speaker 1: not using metrics. They're sort of caught. And that's another thing. Right,

2148
02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:25,280
Speaker 1: if they didn't rank any of these teams at all

2149
02:16:25,440 --> 02:16:28,400
Speaker 1: all year long, and the first ranking they put together

2150
02:16:28,600 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 1: was the one going into this week, I promise you

2151
02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:34,920
Speaker 1: Oklahoma is not in the top ten because when you

2152
02:16:34,959 --> 02:16:38,320
Speaker 1: look at Oklahoma into totality and you compare them. But

2153
02:16:38,400 --> 02:16:41,600
Speaker 1: the problem is they release these rankings every week and

2154
02:16:41,680 --> 02:16:44,200
Speaker 1: in some ways they're stuck with the ranking that they

2155
02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:47,520
Speaker 1: initially give. When you realize the body of work, the

2156
02:16:47,560 --> 02:16:50,400
Speaker 1: longer you go, you're like, Oklahoma's not a top ten team.

2157
02:16:50,879 --> 02:16:52,600
Speaker 1: They have a record, good for them, but they're not

2158
02:16:52,640 --> 02:16:57,080
Speaker 1: a top ten team, and it's you know, it's just

2159
02:16:57,520 --> 02:17:00,560
Speaker 1: this whole thing sucks, and it sucks. The only thing.

2160
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:03,039
Speaker 1: The reason I complain about it so much is there

2161
02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:06,440
Speaker 1: is a pattern that win in doubt. This committee screws

2162
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 1: the ACC. They did it in twenty three, they did

2163
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:12,000
Speaker 1: it in twenty four, and it looks like they're going

2164
02:17:12,080 --> 02:17:15,800
Speaker 1: to do it again in twenty five. And I'd like

2165
02:17:15,879 --> 02:17:19,640
Speaker 1: to see somebody, whether it's university presidents or somebody else,

2166
02:17:20,120 --> 02:17:23,600
Speaker 1: stand up and demand some accountability from the leadership of

2167
02:17:23,600 --> 02:17:28,760
Speaker 1: the ACC. Now it should be a fun weekend of

2168
02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:33,080
Speaker 1: college football champions Championships. I can't actually think Friday is

2169
02:17:33,120 --> 02:17:34,920
Speaker 1: going to be amazing. I can't wait to watch Tulane

2170
02:17:34,920 --> 02:17:38,959
Speaker 1: in North Texas get ready to be fully entertained. I'm pulling.

2171
02:17:40,480 --> 02:17:43,119
Speaker 1: I got more of my son's friends are at Tulane

2172
02:17:43,320 --> 02:17:46,840
Speaker 1: and my daughter's friends are Tulane, so we're Tulane advocates

2173
02:17:47,560 --> 02:17:51,120
Speaker 1: in this house. I couldn't be a bigger Georgia Bulldog fan,

2174
02:17:51,680 --> 02:17:55,040
Speaker 1: So let's go Georgia Bulldogs over Alabama. I think I'm

2175
02:17:55,120 --> 02:17:57,640
Speaker 1: rooting for Texas Tech. I don't or it may not

2176
02:17:57,720 --> 02:18:00,760
Speaker 1: matter if it's if BYU were Texas Tech wins, as

2177
02:18:00,800 --> 02:18:04,720
Speaker 1: long as whoever wins wins by margin. What I don't

2178
02:18:04,760 --> 02:18:07,560
Speaker 1: think what Miami could affords a close game, and considering

2179
02:18:07,560 --> 02:18:10,640
Speaker 1: what this committee is doing and the big disappointment for me,

2180
02:18:10,720 --> 02:18:12,680
Speaker 1: and by the way, there's a part of me that

2181
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:14,920
Speaker 1: is pulling for Duke to win this championship game. At

2182
02:18:14,920 --> 02:18:17,640
Speaker 1: this point, I know it's better for the conference if

2183
02:18:18,520 --> 02:18:20,880
Speaker 1: to guarantee a spot in the playoff for UV to win.

2184
02:18:20,959 --> 02:18:23,720
Speaker 1: And I got friends that love their who's and all

2185
02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:27,320
Speaker 1: that stuff, but I kind of want leadership of the

2186
02:18:27,320 --> 02:18:30,640
Speaker 1: ACC to have to eat this shit sandwich. So and

2187
02:18:30,800 --> 02:18:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, there's something, like I said, I'm happy for

2188
02:18:33,760 --> 02:18:38,480
Speaker 1: Manny Das that he gets this, that he's having this

2189
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:41,960
Speaker 1: moment considering the uncomfortable way that I think and the

2190
02:18:42,200 --> 02:18:44,120
Speaker 1: kind of shoddy way that I think the University of

2191
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:49,240
Speaker 1: Miami forced him out the door. So the big thing

2192
02:18:49,320 --> 02:18:52,840
Speaker 1: I wish the Ohio State Indiana game meant something like

2193
02:18:53,160 --> 02:18:55,160
Speaker 1: we should be more excited about this game than any

2194
02:18:55,200 --> 02:18:59,520
Speaker 1: game all season long. It's one versus two, undefeated versus undefeated.

2195
02:19:00,520 --> 02:19:03,280
Speaker 1: But honestly, do you put everything you need to in

2196
02:19:03,360 --> 02:19:07,720
Speaker 1: that game knowing that you have the playoff coming up?

2197
02:19:08,480 --> 02:19:11,680
Speaker 1: So this is a reminder. I have a new idea.

2198
02:19:11,800 --> 02:19:14,560
Speaker 1: I think these conference championship games shouldn't go to the

2199
02:19:14,680 --> 02:19:17,960
Speaker 1: top if you're going to be in the playoff. We

2200
02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:20,520
Speaker 1: should instead go ahead and keep the conference titles, but

2201
02:19:21,200 --> 02:19:25,680
Speaker 1: match up your bubble teams, right, So let's put Alabama

2202
02:19:26,040 --> 02:19:30,760
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma and the SEC title game. Let's put Miami

2203
02:19:31,360 --> 02:19:35,080
Speaker 1: and UVA and the ACC title game. Let's put USC

2204
02:19:36,160 --> 02:19:39,320
Speaker 1: and I guess you would say Oregon in the Big

2205
02:19:39,400 --> 02:19:41,720
Speaker 1: Ten title game, right like you do it? So that

2206
02:19:42,040 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 1: it is the bubble teams, you get to either play

2207
02:19:44,520 --> 02:19:48,280
Speaker 1: your way in and winning the conference means you don't

2208
02:19:48,360 --> 02:19:50,959
Speaker 1: have to play that extra conference championship game. Just a thought.

2209
02:19:51,560 --> 02:19:53,560
Speaker 1: We certainly got to do something about those championship games.

2210
02:19:53,600 --> 02:19:57,200
Speaker 1: All right. I hope you enjoy the weekend. I really

2211
02:19:57,200 --> 02:19:59,520
Speaker 1: want to enjoy the game on the field. I am

2212
02:19:59,560 --> 02:20:02,240
Speaker 1: petrof of noon on Sunday when we hear what the

2213
02:20:02,560 --> 02:20:07,240
Speaker 1: ESPN Invitational Committee decides to do. But with that, have

2214
02:20:07,320 --> 02:20:07,920
Speaker 1: a great weekend.