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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Okay, let me show you something. Sure.

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Speaker 1: This is Debbie, Ebbie's grandmother on her dad's side. We're

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Speaker 1: at her home in Little Rock and she's about to

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Speaker 1: show me something she doesn't show a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: When Ebbie disappeared, law enforcement asked Debbie not to talk

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Speaker 1: to the media. The police said, please be quiet, let

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Speaker 1: us be the folks people, I mean, let us handle this.

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Speaker 1: I usually was the fixer in our family, and so

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Speaker 1: normally I would have been the one down with the police.

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Speaker 1: I would have been the one making statements. I would

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Speaker 1: have been the one judging what goes out, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do that, so I sat back. Debbie says that

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Speaker 1: for several years she's been silent, but now she's convinced

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Speaker 1: that the only way to get justice for Ebbie is

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Speaker 1: to make the story as public as possible. I don't

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Speaker 1: show this to everybody, but this is what I did.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, you're one of the few people that

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Speaker 1: have seen it. Debbie has built her own very detailed

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Speaker 1: murder board with lots of photos of people who were

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Speaker 1: in Ebbie's life. Her murder board, like ours, has a

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Speaker 1: big question mark around Saturday night October twenty fourth, when

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Speaker 1: Tommy took over the case, she went to talk to him.

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Speaker 1: When I sat with Tommy that day, of course, he

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Speaker 1: took pictures and things. He went, well, I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you much, but you don't know where she was here.

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Speaker 1: I know exactly where she was here. You don't know

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Speaker 1: where she was there. I know exactly where she was there.

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Speaker 1: You can forget him. You can forget him. You can this,

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Speaker 1: you can that. Like Laurie and so many other people

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Speaker 1: close to Ebbie, Debbie has been investigating Ebbie's death for years,

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Speaker 1: collecting information that could potentially get us closer to the truth.

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Speaker 1: And Debbie has connections that could get us closer to

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Speaker 1: understanding the inconsistencies in the secure guard stories. I'm Catherine Townsend.

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Speaker 1: This is hell and Gone. No one I talked to

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Speaker 1: seems to know much about the security guard Guy Hooper.

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Speaker 1: What we do know is that he used to run

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Speaker 1: his own security company called ASSI. He now appears to

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Speaker 1: be retired, and during the time that he worked at

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Speaker 1: Chelmont Park, he was also working security at other places,

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Speaker 1: including a women's health center. We know that the pool

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Speaker 1: didn't immediately speak with Guy after Ebbie disappeared. Because Monny

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Speaker 1: was shocked when he found guy five months after Ebbie

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Speaker 1: went missing, and according to Grandma Debbie, Monny was not

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Speaker 1: the first person to find the security guard a few

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Speaker 1: months in. It was very it was very frustrating because

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Speaker 1: you know, so many mistakes were made in the beginning.

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Speaker 1: And my husband even at one point Collins said, have

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Speaker 1: you talked to that guard? Because my husband owns a

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Speaker 1: landscaping company and one of the neighborhoods he had their

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Speaker 1: security guard. They've done that neighborhood for years, a big

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Speaker 1: housing condition, and he said something to one of the

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Speaker 1: on the board that he says, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: over there and I saw her in Chalamote Park and

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Speaker 1: he said I ran her off a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: and my husband called during that time. I said, I

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Speaker 1: think that if you would do nothing. Ebbie's step dad, Michael,

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Speaker 1: has also talked a guy a few times. He used

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Speaker 1: to patrol up in this neighborhood and I knew who

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Speaker 1: he was. I don't know if he knew who I was,

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Speaker 1: but I'd seen him drive through and he's an odd individual,

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Speaker 1: and so I've talked to him. After a while, I

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Speaker 1: think he figured out who I was. And so I've

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Speaker 1: talked to him out here when he's patrolling through a

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Speaker 1: couple of times. I've seen him up at the park

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. Trevor and I ran into him

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Speaker 1: up there. But I can tell you that, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's I just never have been I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he did anything wrong or not. He may be just

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Speaker 1: a weird guy. Grandma Debbie puts me in touch with

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Speaker 1: an old friend of hers, someone he worked with the

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Speaker 1: homeowners association in Saint Charles, the neighborhood that is very

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Speaker 1: near Chalmont Park. This source tells me that Guy Hooper

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Speaker 1: was the security guard for that area for several years

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Speaker 1: until twenty eighteen when the Little Rock Police Department officers

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Speaker 1: began patrolling there. He tells me that Chalmont Park was

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Speaker 1: a safe neighborhood, so the main things that the residents

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Speaker 1: were worried about were things like copper wire theft or

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Speaker 1: people swiping stuff from one of the min construction sites around.

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Speaker 1: So the security guard was really there to deter thieves

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Speaker 1: or to clear kids out of the park who may

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Speaker 1: have been drinking or hooking up. Most of the things

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Speaker 1: that Guy reported were things that were not high priorities.

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Speaker 1: For the police, but things that might concern residents in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood. When we talked to Eric, he said he

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Speaker 1: doesn't remember there ever being security at Shalamant Park. All

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Speaker 1: the times that we've been today, I've never seen the security,

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Speaker 1: not even like in a truck or that's why the

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Speaker 1: neighbors haying the security guys out time. Like what I've

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Speaker 1: talked to Monty several times about Guy Hooper, But what

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Speaker 1: Monty's telling us that guy told him and what Guys

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Speaker 1: told other people, these stories just aren't matching up. First,

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Speaker 1: there's the incident report. Guy said to Monny that Ebbie's

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Speaker 1: car was at the park on Sunday night, Monday night,

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Speaker 1: and Tuesday, so he called the police multiple times to

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Speaker 1: report that it had been abandoned there. He said that

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Speaker 1: he checked the car and found the ignition running in

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Speaker 1: Ebbie's purse and personal items inside the car, but he

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Speaker 1: said that even though he waited several hours, the police

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Speaker 1: never showed up. Guys said that he was there at

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Speaker 1: the park on Wednesday night and Thursday night and the

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Speaker 1: car was there, But he said that when he came

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Speaker 1: back on Friday night, which would have been October thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: the car was gone. If he did call the police

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Speaker 1: multiple times, why isn't he anywhere on the incident report.

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Speaker 1: Guy appeared on an episode about Ebbie on a show

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Speaker 1: called Crime Watch Daily. The name has now been changed

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Speaker 1: to True Crime Daily. That True Crime Daily story came

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Speaker 1: out before Ebbie's body was found in that drain. That's

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Speaker 1: back when they were investigating every possibility, including the possibility

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Speaker 1: that Ebbie could have been kidnapped and sex trafficked. In

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Speaker 1: the interview, Guy clearly said he had seen Ebbie in

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Speaker 1: the park on at least three different occasions, and he

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Speaker 1: said she was not alone. In the interview, he said,

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Speaker 1: it was late evening. I advised them all everybody to

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Speaker 1: leave the park, which they did. Then a few days

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Speaker 1: later I run into her again with another young black gentleman.

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Speaker 1: This time they were in the backseat of the car,

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Speaker 1: and the third time she was back with another couple

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Speaker 1: of gentlemen. He said that all three times he saw

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Speaker 1: her there she was with a black mail medium hike

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Speaker 1: about five foot six to five foot seven, with long dreadlocks.

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Speaker 1: The anchor of the show then showed Guy mugshots of

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Speaker 1: two men who were arrested as part of a sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking ring, and Guy said that two of the people

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Speaker 1: in the pictures looked like the young men he had

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Speaker 1: seen with Ebbie. Now, those same men were arrested and

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Speaker 1: they were charged with sex trafficking, but police were able

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Speaker 1: to determine that they were out of state at the time,

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Speaker 1: and I had nothing to do with Ebbie's case. And

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Speaker 1: then there's Guy's dash cam footage. Remember Monty told us this.

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Speaker 1: He had seen her there before in this vehicle with

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Speaker 1: a black male. And he told us that he had

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Speaker 1: he had a dash cam in his car and he

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Speaker 1: had recorded this, and I said, oh great. He said, well, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not great. He said, one day, I come in

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Speaker 1: to download video from that night's work and the computer

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Speaker 1: said it would not read this device. Sometime in the

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Speaker 1: months after Ebbie disappeared and before Monty got on the case,

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Speaker 1: guy's computer broke. Well aster was a computer away in

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Speaker 1: the trash. They took his computer into Warrior's wife works

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Speaker 1: to their it. Guy and a guy told him Bash,

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Speaker 1: the computer was tried. It was no good. The best

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Speaker 1: saying you could do is get another computer. Inst When

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Speaker 1: we talked about this incident earlier, we kind of skated

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Speaker 1: by it, But the fact that he threw his computer

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Speaker 1: away really bothered Mike and me. If you knew that

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Speaker 1: crucial footage was on there, surely like what else was

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Speaker 1: on the dash cam footage? Did he like, at what

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Speaker 1: point did he throw the computer away? I guess Monty

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Speaker 1: was saying that at the time that he he the

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Speaker 1: computer was already thrown away. But it's like, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: otherwise the police could have even if they didn't think

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Speaker 1: there was anything on it, they still could have taken

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Speaker 1: it and forensically processed it. As our week and Little

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Speaker 1: Rock progressed, I got more and more frustrated. You don't

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Speaker 1: throw data away like that. You don't throw a computer

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Speaker 1: away with stuff that can be used in a murder investigation,

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Speaker 1: Like even if even if you don't think it's it's usable,

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Speaker 1: surely you give it to law enforcement and go, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've got a computer here that has dash camera footage

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Speaker 1: on it. Can somebody pull it? Yeah? Absolutely, If you

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Speaker 1: were as trying to be as helpful as you say

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Speaker 1: you are, you would have turned over that information right

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Speaker 1: away or at least kept it, you know, like not,

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Speaker 1: you don't throw especially I mean, I just don't believe

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Speaker 1: that at all, and even as we were driving over

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Speaker 1: to See's house, right before we talked to his mom,

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Speaker 1: the security guard was still the main thing on my mind.

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Speaker 1: The questions about the security guard that I have right

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Speaker 1: now that just need to be clarified are what was

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Speaker 1: the exact order of events regarding who reported that car missing?

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Speaker 1: What does the security guard tell people about Ebby and

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Speaker 1: the guys he said he saw with. What were the

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Speaker 1: exact details of that interaction. I'd like to know that also.

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Speaker 1: I would like him to tell us the story about

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Speaker 1: what happened to that data. We'll be right back while

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Speaker 1: we're unraveling all this. I talked to ebbie stepdad, Michael again,

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Speaker 1: Remember when I was down in the manhole and you

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Speaker 1: said something about ask her if the security guard, Ask

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Speaker 1: the security guard if he like ran kids off from

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Speaker 1: down there? Do you remember where you heard that I'd

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Speaker 1: had a conversation. I'm trying to remember if that came

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Speaker 1: Torectley from Guy or if it came through Monty Monty Vickers.

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Speaker 1: It'd either be from Guy or Money Vickers. And I

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Speaker 1: hadn't had to be honest, I didn't raise a bunch

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Speaker 1: of red flags about that early on in the deal

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Speaker 1: of the investigation. This seems very strange to me. There

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Speaker 1: are woods everywhere. If kids want to go somewhere for privacy,

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Speaker 1: or they could just hang out in their cars, why

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Speaker 1: would they crawl down into a dirty, slimy manhole. And also,

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Speaker 1: when we talked to Eric, we specifically asked about this,

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Speaker 1: and he said that no one goes down into that manhole.

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Speaker 1: You said that when y'all were hanging out, I mean,

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Speaker 1: people would like hang out and drink and things like that,

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Speaker 1: but you never saw anyone like in the manhole doing

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Speaker 1: stuff like who was disgusting. Is not something that you

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Speaker 1: know people want to do. It strikes me as odd

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Speaker 1: that this entire time we've been warned about bad people

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Speaker 1: from across town, when more and more the evidence is

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Speaker 1: pointing to someone who was very familiar with Shalmant Park,

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Speaker 1: who was either from there or who went there regularly.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a deep dive into crime scene staging

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Speaker 1: into investigating the crime scene and seeing what it can

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Speaker 1: tell us about the perpetrator of the crime and their motives,

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Speaker 1: since I believe that it played a crucial role in

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Speaker 1: this case. Whoever hid Ebbie's body in that pipe had

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Speaker 1: a reason for doing it. If it had been a

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Speaker 1: friend who was there when she accidentally overdosed, I believe

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Speaker 1: that they would have run away at to Mike about this.

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Speaker 1: Usually if somebody overdoses and somebody else overdoses, people just leave,

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Speaker 1: you know, at least they run away, you know, unless

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Speaker 1: unless you've done something to someone where you don't want

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Speaker 1: to get caught. Yeah. And I mean, well, if it

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Speaker 1: was a person she'd been doing drugs with two things,

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Speaker 1: One they wouldn't have known where that pipe was in

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Speaker 1: that park and being able to like drag her down

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Speaker 1: there like that, and it was someone on drugs, I

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Speaker 1: feel like they would have stolen her money and the

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Speaker 1: rest of her drugs. Yeah, I agree. There is a

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Speaker 1: massive amount of risk involved in getting rid of a

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Speaker 1: body to take the time to remove her body from

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Speaker 1: her car and then either open the manhole cover or

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Speaker 1: push her body down into the storm drain, because either way,

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator would then have to crawl down into the

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Speaker 1: dark and shove her body into the thirteen inch wide

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Speaker 1: concrete drain pipe. There are two factors to consider when

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Speaker 1: an offender decides to hide a body or stage a

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Speaker 1: crime scene. Familiarity and risk level. Moving the body to

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Speaker 1: the pipe would have to benefit the person who did it,

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Speaker 1: And we need to understand why I keep thinking about

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Speaker 1: Ebbie's car again. We don't know what work was done

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Speaker 1: on the car with the police. We've heard that the

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Speaker 1: trunk was left open, that it rained, and that evidence

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Speaker 1: was lost, but that's not confirmed. That was ninety percent

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Speaker 1: of their connection to the perpetrator was was the car? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the car. We could have pulled hair from

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Speaker 1: the car. You could have pulled Prince from the car.

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Speaker 1: You could have at least been able to identify what

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Speaker 1: people based on Prince had been in the car exactly,

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Speaker 1: and especially if she had been, you know, in that

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Speaker 1: car with guys meeting here, that would be crucial. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even if more than one person you know you, then

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Speaker 1: that's when you start finding out when was the last

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Speaker 1: time you s her and blah blah blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: and the questioning happens, and then you know, methodically build

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Speaker 1: your list of suspects based off of time. But also

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Speaker 1: we need a better understanding of why the car was

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Speaker 1: parked in the place it was. We've heard that it

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Speaker 1: was backed into a space in the back of Shawmont Park,

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Speaker 1: we're there with Laurie and Mike's going to use Gabby's

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Speaker 1: car to recreate the car's position. Ebby step dad. Michael

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Speaker 1: is on the phone, and he explains where the car

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Speaker 1: was based on what he knows from the neighbor who

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Speaker 1: called the abandoned car into the police. Think or the

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Speaker 1: edge of the opening edge. Lee told me it was

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Speaker 1: backed in that the back right tier was there. He

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Speaker 1: needs to come over a spot. The car was not

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Speaker 1: parked in front of the drainage thing. If you're looking

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Speaker 1: at the drainage opening, it was to the right of it,

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Speaker 1: so he needs to move it over a full parking space. Mike,

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00:16:05,725 --> 00:16:09,405
Speaker 1: the car in a little bit closer to it, and

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Speaker 1: it was backed all the way up against the curb.

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Speaker 1: So the car is backed in all the way with

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Speaker 1: the tire close to the curb. There's a spot right

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Speaker 1: in front of the drain We're in the spot just

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Speaker 1: to the right of that. While we're at the park,

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Speaker 1: we get a few more details about the state of

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Speaker 1: the car. We've heard that the car was kind of

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Speaker 1: a wreck inside with all of Ebie's belongings strown out everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Michael tells us something else. When Lee saw the car,

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Speaker 1: there was a towel and the towel was behind the car.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if the cow was

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Speaker 1: on the ground. I think the cow was on the

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Speaker 1: ground right by the wheels and I understanding behind the car. No,

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Speaker 1: behind the side of the wheel, on the concrete, on

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Speaker 1: the asphalt. Okay, why was this towel outside the car?

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Speaker 1: We need to get more information about how it was positioned.

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Speaker 1: Laurie says that the driver's seat was pushed back. We

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Speaker 1: can't confirm this with the police, and again, we don't

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Speaker 1: know how the car was processed. But if that is true,

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Speaker 1: it points to someone moving the car to that spot.

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Speaker 1: Because Ebby was tiny, Eric told us that she never

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Speaker 1: drove with a seat pushback. She used to say, also,

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Speaker 1: what were the odds of someone in Ebby's impaired condition

285
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Speaker 1: being able to back perfectly into a parking spot like that?

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Speaker 1: After we backed the car in, Mike and I walked

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00:17:44,005 --> 00:17:47,205
Speaker 1: to the entrance to the park. Shalmant Park is small,

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00:17:47,965 --> 00:17:51,405
Speaker 1: but once we reached the street, you can barely see

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Speaker 1: the top of Gabby's car, especially as it's getting dark.

290
00:17:55,165 --> 00:18:00,525
Speaker 1: It's getting dark. If all you can see is barely

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00:18:02,085 --> 00:18:06,085
Speaker 1: the top of this from over there. You know, if

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Speaker 1: I'm if I'm down here doing stuff, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to see anything to me. Also, as you just did that,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, okay, the car being backed right there,

295
00:18:16,765 --> 00:18:20,285
Speaker 1: you're very close to the entrance. You're also concealed by

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Speaker 1: the car because this is about the same side, like

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Speaker 1: close to the sides of her car. Even though you're

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Speaker 1: a big guy, like you're still totally concealed. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: it's like it's just you know, it makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense. Yeah. I almost bet you if you rode

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Speaker 1: with Laurie and just you know, if you did a

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00:18:35,605 --> 00:18:37,525
Speaker 1: circle around a loop and you just kind of drove

303
00:18:37,885 --> 00:18:40,805
Speaker 1: drove by, you probably either would just see the top

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00:18:40,845 --> 00:18:42,885
Speaker 1: or you wouldn't even see the top of this car. Yeah.

305
00:18:45,285 --> 00:18:49,365
Speaker 1: Whoever parked this car was familiar with the area and

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00:18:49,405 --> 00:18:52,445
Speaker 1: they knew this parking spot gave them cover from the street.

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Speaker 1: Mike and I decide to talk to Monty again. This

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Speaker 1: time we asked him specifically about any information he got

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Speaker 1: from guy about the position of the car, and what

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00:19:04,005 --> 00:19:08,085
Speaker 1: he says next shocks us. What about do you remember

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Speaker 1: what he told you about the car, like where it

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00:19:11,725 --> 00:19:15,405
Speaker 1: was it was backed? In. As you pull in there,

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Speaker 1: there's a kind of a ferry there, and the car

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00:19:18,805 --> 00:19:21,085
Speaker 1: was sitting right here. If you go in there, it

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00:19:21,085 --> 00:19:23,805
Speaker 1: would have been on your right. That's the way gud

316
00:19:23,965 --> 00:19:28,085
Speaker 1: described it to us. As Monty is showing us where

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00:19:28,085 --> 00:19:31,045
Speaker 1: the car was parked, I look at Mike, and even

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Speaker 1: though we both keep our expressions neutral, I'm positive that

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Speaker 1: he's thinking the same thing that I am. What because

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Speaker 1: Monty is showing us that the car was parked at

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Speaker 1: the front of the parking lot. Now, we've always heard

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Speaker 1: that the car was found in the back of the

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Speaker 1: parking lot, So why would guy tell Monny that it

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00:19:49,845 --> 00:19:54,205
Speaker 1: was parked in the front. Maybe Monty isn't remembering correctly.

325
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Speaker 1: Mike asked him to draw him out. He's very clearing.

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00:20:01,165 --> 00:20:04,925
Speaker 1: Where's the parking area. That's the parking area, okay, yeah,

327
00:20:04,965 --> 00:20:09,325
Speaker 1: and then there's the manhole cover. Okay, right there, right

328
00:20:09,445 --> 00:20:13,565
Speaker 1: right there where that car he is there I drain pipes.

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00:20:14,325 --> 00:20:17,485
Speaker 1: It's right on the yes tree, right down there. Again,

330
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Speaker 1: he's saying that Ebby's car was in the front part

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Speaker 1: of the lot, in an area where it would have

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00:20:22,885 --> 00:20:26,125
Speaker 1: been visible from the street. Okay, thank you, Yeah, of

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00:20:26,165 --> 00:20:30,045
Speaker 1: course we were parked right here because I was waiting

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Speaker 1: on him when he came in and I did interview

335
00:20:33,805 --> 00:20:38,885
Speaker 1: on the hood of my vehicle right here. So what

336
00:20:39,085 --> 00:20:42,165
Speaker 1: happened to the car? Did guys see it before Ebbie

337
00:20:42,205 --> 00:20:44,565
Speaker 1: moved it while she was still there and still alive?

338
00:20:45,245 --> 00:20:50,485
Speaker 1: And if not, why was this discrepancy never mentioned before? Again,

339
00:20:51,085 --> 00:20:54,805
Speaker 1: this is money talking about this from memory. We need

340
00:20:54,845 --> 00:20:58,845
Speaker 1: the original diagram he had from twenty sixteen. Fine, do

341
00:20:58,885 --> 00:21:00,485
Speaker 1: you have do you remember? I mean, I know in

342
00:21:00,565 --> 00:21:02,685
Speaker 1: your boxes of stuff. Do you know if you still

343
00:21:02,725 --> 00:21:06,325
Speaker 1: have that diagram? It's all my file. I've kind of

344
00:21:06,325 --> 00:21:10,365
Speaker 1: cleaned my office out and my files upstairs and show

345
00:21:10,485 --> 00:21:14,405
Speaker 1: I thought her file were Sarah. Could we need to

346
00:21:14,405 --> 00:21:17,125
Speaker 1: get our hands on Monty's files to confirm all this?

347
00:21:17,965 --> 00:21:20,405
Speaker 1: But at this point, I feel like I have enough

348
00:21:20,445 --> 00:21:24,725
Speaker 1: information and a lot of questions that need answering. It's

349
00:21:24,765 --> 00:21:27,565
Speaker 1: time to talk to Guy Hooper. I give him a

350
00:21:27,605 --> 00:21:36,485
Speaker 1: call and he picks up. We'll be right back. Hi.

351
00:21:36,685 --> 00:21:40,405
Speaker 1: Is this guy Guy Hooper just picked up my phone call? Hi?

352
00:21:40,565 --> 00:21:44,765
Speaker 1: This is Catherine Townsend. I am actually reaching out to

353
00:21:44,805 --> 00:21:47,285
Speaker 1: you because I've been talking to Laurie Journe again and

354
00:21:47,325 --> 00:21:49,805
Speaker 1: I've been working. After I explained to him what we're doing.

355
00:21:50,405 --> 00:21:52,645
Speaker 1: The first thing that guy says to me is that

356
00:21:52,685 --> 00:21:55,725
Speaker 1: he's retired. Now, I said, I know, but we really

357
00:21:55,805 --> 00:21:58,565
Speaker 1: want to talk to you. He then tells me he

358
00:21:58,685 --> 00:22:02,085
Speaker 1: just got out of surgery, but he asked when would

359
00:22:02,085 --> 00:22:04,845
Speaker 1: be a good time to talk. Well, I mean we could.

360
00:22:04,925 --> 00:22:06,885
Speaker 1: We could come to you if that would work for you,

361
00:22:06,925 --> 00:22:09,205
Speaker 1: and I mean you tell us. Guy says he can

362
00:22:09,285 --> 00:22:12,085
Speaker 1: meet on Saturday. We're supposed to head out of Little

363
00:22:12,125 --> 00:22:15,205
Speaker 1: Rock by then, but I know how important this interview is.

364
00:22:16,005 --> 00:22:19,685
Speaker 1: This might be our only chance to talk face to face. Yeah,

365
00:22:19,925 --> 00:22:22,325
Speaker 1: that could work for me. I could do it on Saturday.

366
00:22:22,725 --> 00:22:25,325
Speaker 1: We could meet really pretty much anywhere in Little Rock,

367
00:22:25,605 --> 00:22:29,565
Speaker 1: West Little Rock. Where are you? He's located in North

368
00:22:29,605 --> 00:22:32,245
Speaker 1: Little Rock, but he doesn't want to meet at his home.

369
00:22:32,925 --> 00:22:36,565
Speaker 1: He suggests the Eyehop near McCain Mall. We confirm to

370
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Speaker 1: meet at two pm on Saturday. All right, thank you.

371
00:22:40,445 --> 00:22:44,685
Speaker 1: The call with guy was short, only three minutes long. Yeah,

372
00:22:44,765 --> 00:22:47,805
Speaker 1: I'm probably just going to come back and do that myself.

373
00:22:48,925 --> 00:22:52,405
Speaker 1: I gotta talk to that guy. Yeah, it could be

374
00:22:52,485 --> 00:22:56,965
Speaker 1: totally I mean, look, I can't like, no, we should

375
00:22:57,085 --> 00:23:02,045
Speaker 1: we should talk to him. The next day, I reach

376
00:23:02,165 --> 00:23:04,885
Speaker 1: back out to Guy to confirm our meeting. I'll leave

377
00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:07,565
Speaker 1: a message and then another one, and he doesn't get

378
00:23:07,565 --> 00:23:10,605
Speaker 1: back to me. I then reach out to Monty to

379
00:23:10,605 --> 00:23:14,365
Speaker 1: see if he can get in contact with Guy. No luck.

380
00:23:15,285 --> 00:23:20,445
Speaker 1: The next day, I call Guy again. Nothing. It's Wednesday,

381
00:23:20,925 --> 00:23:23,605
Speaker 1: the day before our flights go out. We have a

382
00:23:23,605 --> 00:23:26,805
Speaker 1: meeting with Monty and at the end he shows us

383
00:23:26,845 --> 00:23:30,765
Speaker 1: a text that he just got from Guy. In that text,

384
00:23:31,245 --> 00:23:34,405
Speaker 1: Guy says he's planning to cancel the meeting with us.

385
00:23:36,525 --> 00:23:40,245
Speaker 1: I immediately call him, but he doesn't respond, and ever

386
00:23:40,405 --> 00:23:43,205
Speaker 1: since then, he has never picked up any of my

387
00:23:43,325 --> 00:23:50,885
Speaker 1: calls or responded to any of my texts. All this

388
00:23:51,005 --> 00:23:54,845
Speaker 1: happened in December, and since then he seems to have

389
00:23:54,925 --> 00:24:00,085
Speaker 1: completely ghosted this investigation. But then in March, Laurie called me.

390
00:24:00,725 --> 00:24:03,165
Speaker 1: She told me she had spoken to produce her she

391
00:24:03,245 --> 00:24:07,245
Speaker 1: knows on the Doctor Phil show. Laurie and Michael had

392
00:24:07,325 --> 00:24:11,525
Speaker 1: been on Doctor Phil twice, once in twenty seventeen when

393
00:24:11,525 --> 00:24:14,965
Speaker 1: Ebbie was still missing, and once in twenty eighteen after

394
00:24:15,005 --> 00:24:18,325
Speaker 1: her body was found. Laurie can't make another trip to

395
00:24:18,445 --> 00:24:21,045
Speaker 1: la right now, so she asked me if I would

396
00:24:21,045 --> 00:24:23,925
Speaker 1: go to Los Angeles and do the show. I immediately

397
00:24:23,965 --> 00:24:27,085
Speaker 1: said yes, and I started working with the Doctor Phil producers.

398
00:24:27,525 --> 00:24:29,925
Speaker 1: I told the producers everything I knew and said that

399
00:24:29,965 --> 00:24:33,885
Speaker 1: I would do anything to help this investigation, so included

400
00:24:33,925 --> 00:24:36,725
Speaker 1: in that, of course, with my questions about Guy Hooper.

401
00:24:37,325 --> 00:24:41,565
Speaker 1: I gave the producers his phone number, so I gave

402
00:24:41,605 --> 00:24:44,725
Speaker 1: the producer the security guards information. They called him, and

403
00:24:44,805 --> 00:24:47,485
Speaker 1: it was very similar to what happened with us. Actually,

404
00:24:48,205 --> 00:24:51,805
Speaker 1: at first, according to the producer, he was cooperative. It

405
00:24:51,805 --> 00:24:54,325
Speaker 1: seemed like he was going to help, maybe participate, perhaps

406
00:24:54,325 --> 00:24:58,485
Speaker 1: give them a statement. But then he just stopped returning

407
00:24:58,525 --> 00:25:02,645
Speaker 1: their calls and the last I heard, he had blocked

408
00:25:02,805 --> 00:25:08,925
Speaker 1: the phone number. So yeah, I mean, very interesting, very

409
00:25:09,765 --> 00:25:13,125
Speaker 1: very interesting. We should have just went by his house

410
00:25:13,165 --> 00:25:15,445
Speaker 1: that day, rolled up on him. We should have just

411
00:25:15,525 --> 00:25:20,125
Speaker 1: rolled up on him to move this investigation forward. I

412
00:25:20,165 --> 00:25:23,165
Speaker 1: feel like we have to talk to Guy Hooper, but

413
00:25:23,205 --> 00:25:25,205
Speaker 1: we're still figuring out the best way to do it.

414
00:25:26,245 --> 00:25:28,845
Speaker 1: Even if he has absolutely nothing to do with Ebbie's

415
00:25:28,885 --> 00:25:33,365
Speaker 1: disappearance and death, He's provided so much conflicting information to

416
00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:35,845
Speaker 1: different people and we just need to get the fact straight.

417
00:25:36,165 --> 00:25:37,885
Speaker 1: I mean, not calling it in bad enough if you're

418
00:25:37,925 --> 00:25:40,205
Speaker 1: the security garbage to lie, to tell people that you

419
00:25:40,245 --> 00:25:42,765
Speaker 1: have called it in, to tell the neighbor when she

420
00:25:42,845 --> 00:25:44,685
Speaker 1: keeps bringing it up, Oh yeah, I've called the cops

421
00:25:44,685 --> 00:25:48,205
Speaker 1: about it, and then turns out you haven't. I mean,

422
00:25:48,205 --> 00:25:49,805
Speaker 1: there's a reason for that, and we need to figure

423
00:25:49,805 --> 00:25:53,245
Speaker 1: out what it is. And as we were talking about

424
00:25:53,285 --> 00:25:57,285
Speaker 1: the security guard, something else came up. There were two

425
00:25:57,405 --> 00:26:00,805
Speaker 1: other people working for Guy. I talked to Ebbie's stepdad,

426
00:26:00,845 --> 00:26:03,405
Speaker 1: Michael again calm and I went out there were we

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00:26:03,445 --> 00:26:06,485
Speaker 1: were at the park talking about our stuff. These two guys,

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00:26:06,525 --> 00:26:09,805
Speaker 1: these two guys in the little security car came through

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00:26:10,325 --> 00:26:12,605
Speaker 1: and he sort of stopped, came up at sort of

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00:26:12,605 --> 00:26:15,045
Speaker 1: asking us who we were, what we were doing, and

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00:26:15,125 --> 00:26:16,845
Speaker 1: don't I want to say one of the guys name

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00:26:16,965 --> 00:26:19,365
Speaker 1: was last name was brown, but two young black guys

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00:26:19,445 --> 00:26:23,405
Speaker 1: that were patrolling together and they worked for him. They

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00:26:23,405 --> 00:26:26,245
Speaker 1: worked for Guy, and they were doing patrolling when they

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00:26:26,285 --> 00:26:29,805
Speaker 1: patrol when he doesn't. And they seemed to indicate that

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00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:33,205
Speaker 1: they they acted like they knew who he was. But

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00:26:33,245 --> 00:26:34,565
Speaker 1: it could be just from me. It had been on

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00:26:34,605 --> 00:26:36,965
Speaker 1: the news. They want to say they do or whatever.

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00:26:37,045 --> 00:26:39,805
Speaker 1: I don't have any proof, but it's something that I

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00:26:39,845 --> 00:26:44,005
Speaker 1: think's critical of that week is did guy patrol every

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00:26:44,125 --> 00:26:49,005
Speaker 1: night that Saturday night, Sunday night, all the way through

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00:26:49,085 --> 00:26:52,885
Speaker 1: to when her car was found on Friday? Was he

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00:26:52,965 --> 00:26:56,285
Speaker 1: did he patrol every night? Did these somebody else patrol

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00:26:56,365 --> 00:27:00,605
Speaker 1: for him? If they did, who were they? Did he

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00:27:00,645 --> 00:27:05,965
Speaker 1: even patrol that Sunday? No one seems to know anything

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00:27:06,005 --> 00:27:08,965
Speaker 1: about these guys. So I go back to Grandma Debbie.

447
00:27:09,365 --> 00:27:13,245
Speaker 1: She's been doing her own detective work. Her sources tell

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00:27:13,325 --> 00:27:16,245
Speaker 1: her the same thing that Michael told me. There were

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00:27:16,285 --> 00:27:19,325
Speaker 1: two guys who would regularly take over from Guy Hooper.

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00:27:20,085 --> 00:27:22,805
Speaker 1: According to this source, they tended to work the night shifts,

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00:27:22,845 --> 00:27:26,405
Speaker 1: which would have been around ten pm to two am.

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00:27:26,445 --> 00:27:29,365
Speaker 1: I go back to my source with the homeowners Association,

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00:27:29,965 --> 00:27:32,685
Speaker 1: who confirms that there were a couple of guys who

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00:27:32,725 --> 00:27:37,245
Speaker 1: patrolled for the security guard. Basically, the source said that

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00:27:37,285 --> 00:27:40,205
Speaker 1: guy Whoper had free reign, he could pretty much set

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00:27:40,205 --> 00:27:42,805
Speaker 1: his own hours. But the source said that he would

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00:27:42,805 --> 00:27:45,925
Speaker 1: often patrol starting at dusk, which is right around the

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00:27:45,925 --> 00:27:50,405
Speaker 1: time when Ebbie hung up with Trevor right before she disappeared.

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00:27:51,205 --> 00:27:55,325
Speaker 1: But incredibly, he says that the housing association has no

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00:27:55,405 --> 00:28:00,845
Speaker 1: information about these guys. The Homeowners Association dealt with ASSI

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00:28:00,925 --> 00:28:05,405
Speaker 1: security Guy Hooper's company directly, so there were no background checks.

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00:28:06,205 --> 00:28:10,165
Speaker 1: They don't even know these guys names. Whoever they are,

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00:28:10,685 --> 00:28:13,685
Speaker 1: they could be crucial to getting the answers that we need.

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00:28:14,525 --> 00:28:18,765
Speaker 1: We have to find them. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is

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00:28:18,805 --> 00:28:23,765
Speaker 1: Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of School of

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00:28:23,845 --> 00:28:27,725
Speaker 1: Humans and iHeartRadio. It's written and hosted by me Katherine

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00:28:27,765 --> 00:28:31,405
Speaker 1: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts and Mike Doubt. Our

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00:28:31,485 --> 00:28:35,565
Speaker 1: executive producers are Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, and Virginia Prescott.

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00:28:36,765 --> 00:28:39,805
Speaker 1: Mix and Master is by Ryan Peoples and our music

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00:28:40,125 --> 00:28:46,725
Speaker 1: is by Ben Sale. If you have any information regarding

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00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:49,605
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Ebie Stepic, you can call our tip

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00:28:49,645 --> 00:28:53,605
Speaker 1: one at six seven eight six three two six one

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00:28:53,885 --> 00:29:14,805
Speaker 1: five nine. School of Humans. School of Humans