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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Niasy grace here. Welcome to Justice Nation. Crime

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Speaker 1: stops here. This online education course is designed to help

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Speaker 1: you protect what you love the most, your children and

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Speaker 1: your loved ones from crime. We're making it available for

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Speaker 1: countless other data centers on its way to the IRS.

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Speaker 1: Any of them can expose you to identity theft because

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Speaker 1: they have all the information on your W two just

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Speaker 1: the ticket for criminals to steal your identity. No wonder

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Speaker 1: the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went

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Speaker 1: Terms apply. Thank you LifeLock for making this possible and

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Speaker 1: for being our partner. Welcome to Session one. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us Session one. Safe in your own home.

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Speaker 1: When I come home, the very first thing I want

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Speaker 1: to hear is the alarm going off, because I want

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Speaker 1: to know it's been on since I've been gone. I

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Speaker 1: have prosecuted thousands of cases of home burglaries that went wrong.

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Speaker 1: I have walked through crime scenes that seemingly started as

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Speaker 1: a burglary that ended in a violent attack or worse,

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Speaker 1: the old catchphrase there's no place like home, your home.

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Speaker 1: Your home is like a jewelry box, and you open

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Speaker 1: it up and inside that box the jewel your children.

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Speaker 1: I have devoted my life to protecting people from violent crime,

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Speaker 1: specifically children, and now my own children, and I know

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Speaker 1: I won't get a second chance. Today we are joined

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Speaker 1: by experts who have dedicated their lives to finding missing children,

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Speaker 1: to reuniting families, and most important, sharing the secrets to

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Speaker 1: protect your home and stop child abductions before they happen.

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Speaker 1: Let us share with you what we have learned. With

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Speaker 1: me here in our home. Is a hero, a personal hero,

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Speaker 1: an icon, a warrior. You know him, I'm sure Mark Class.

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Speaker 1: Mark is the founder of Class Kids and has devoted

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Speaker 1: his life to finding missing children at great, great personal expense.

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Speaker 1: You know, I try to tell your story sometimes and

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Speaker 1: I can't do it justice. So I have you here

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Speaker 1: and I want you to tell your story and why

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Speaker 1: you devoted your whole life to seeking justice.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Nancy. I

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Speaker 2: truly appreciate it, and it's nice to be with you.

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Speaker 2: As you know, my story began on October first, nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety three.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I've never been able to hear you

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Speaker 1: tell this without getting upset. I just in my mind,

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Speaker 1: I say Polly in the picture and I think of

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Speaker 1: her that way, just beautiful, with that smile, those beautiful eyes.

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Speaker 1: Or that's how I think. Thank her. And you know

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Speaker 1: your strength inspire so many people. Okay, I'll try not

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Speaker 1: dinnerrup Tokeet.

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Speaker 2: She lived in a home in Petaluma, California, with her

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Speaker 2: mother and her half sister, and she was hosting a

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Speaker 2: slumber party on a Friday night, the first of October

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Speaker 2: with two of her girlfriends, and at about ten thirty

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Speaker 2: in the evening, as the girls were preparing to get

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Speaker 2: ready for bed, Paullie opened her bedroom door and he

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Speaker 2: was standing there with a butcher knife, and he threatened

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Speaker 2: to slit their throats if they made a noise. Now,

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Speaker 2: the two girls that were with Pollie thought it was

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Speaker 2: a joke. They thought that Pollie was just trying to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate her acting chops until he gagged them and bound

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Speaker 2: them and put the pillowcases over their heads. That's when

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Speaker 2: they realized something terrible was happening. And after he did that,

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Speaker 2: he pulled Pollie up and disappeared into the knife. He

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Speaker 2: told the girls to count to a thousand and that

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Speaker 2: Polly would be back and had told them that it

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Speaker 2: was only about the money. Now, this is a part

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Speaker 2: of the story that I haven't really told before, because

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Speaker 2: after a few minutes, the two girls did everything they

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Speaker 2: could to extricate themselves and they got out of the

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Speaker 2: bines and they went into the next bedroom, which was

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Speaker 2: separated by a jack and jail bathroom, and woke up

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Speaker 2: Polly's mom, who slipped through the entire ordeal and told

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Speaker 2: her what had happened. At this point, one of the girls,

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Speaker 2: Jillian Pellham, went to find Polly and she thought she

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Speaker 2: would be in the living room, and she wasn't in

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Speaker 2: the living room, and the back door was opened, so

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Speaker 2: she followed out through the back door and walking along

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Speaker 2: the side of the house, quietly calling Pollie's name, Polly,

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Speaker 2: where are you? Polly, where are you? And she worked

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Speaker 2: her way around the side of the house and walked

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Speaker 2: into the middle of the street, which was well lighted

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Speaker 2: in each direction, and she looked up and there was nothing.

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Speaker 2: She looked the other way and there was nothing. And

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Speaker 2: then a chill went up her spine because she realized

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Speaker 2: that it wasn't a robbery, that in fact, it was

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Speaker 2: a kidnapping. And she came back into Pauli's bedroom and

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Speaker 2: Polly's mom was on the phone with nine one one,

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Speaker 2: and she said, she's not here. They took her. And

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Speaker 2: that was the beginning of a sixty five day ordeal

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Speaker 2: that ended on the fourth of December, when a homeowner

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Speaker 2: realized that the crime scene was on her extensive property

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Speaker 2: and brought the sheriff in. They determined that there had

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Speaker 2: been an incident the night that Pauli was kidnapped. They

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Speaker 2: ran a background on the individual who was involved in

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Speaker 2: that incident that he was a twice convicted kidnapper, and

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Speaker 2: we're then able to put the story together, go and

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Speaker 2: arrest him, and he currently resides on death robe. What

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Speaker 2: he had done that night is he had kidnapped her,

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Speaker 2: and he murdered her within about a two hour window,

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Speaker 2: and we found her remains off the side of a

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Speaker 2: freeway under a piece of plywood and some other rubbish.

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Speaker 2: And it shouldn't have happened. I mean, for so many reasons,

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Speaker 2: what happened to her shouldn't have happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to digest everything you just said. And I've

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Speaker 1: heard you tell the story of Polly before, and I've

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Speaker 1: told you this so often when people ask me about

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Speaker 1: my fiances, Martyr, I'm used to telling it, and I

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Speaker 1: tell the story almost robotically because I don't really want

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Speaker 1: to think about it. I want to answer their question

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Speaker 1: and not think about it anymore. Because you know now

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Speaker 1: that I have the twins. If I go to that

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Speaker 1: place of thinking about case murder, the twins do not

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Speaker 1: do My children do not deserve a sad or depressed

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Speaker 1: or upset mother. They need a happy and encouraging mom,

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Speaker 1: So I will, you know, go through it robotically. I've

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Speaker 1: heard you tell the story of Polly being kidnapped before,

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Speaker 1: but I noticed just then when you were telling that

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Speaker 1: story your hand started shaking. That tells me it is

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Speaker 1: not robotic. Even all of these years later, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how you can even tell that story.

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Speaker 2: When I decided, shortly after all was concluded and we

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Speaker 2: had put Polly to rest, that I was going to

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Speaker 2: can you to pursue a child safety agenda, and that

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Speaker 2: I was going to do it in her name, for

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Speaker 2: her legacy. I knew that I had no idea how

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Speaker 2: long I would be able to do it, or what

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Speaker 2: kind of successor would be. But I knew that I

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Speaker 2: would have to retell that story, and I'd have to

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Speaker 2: retell that story, probably on a very regular basis. And Jesus,

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Speaker 2: it's so hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have never ever heard you pause, I

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Speaker 1: have never seen you shed a tear, And just then,

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Speaker 1: when I saw your hands shaking as you were talking

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Speaker 1: about it, that's the first time I have ever seen

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Speaker 1: you show emotion in this battle that you have taken

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Speaker 1: on in Polly's name. I'm trying to crystallize everything you

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Speaker 1: said and what can I learn from it. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to some facts. Sure, was this a

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Speaker 1: home or an apartment?

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Speaker 2: It was a home.

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Speaker 1: It was a house.

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Speaker 2: It was a single family.

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Speaker 1: Dwelling with a front yard in a backyard, and.

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Speaker 2: A front yard in a backyard actually with a little

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Speaker 2: granny unit right behind it.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting about the granny union because I've always been

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Speaker 1: concerned about outhouses or the curtilage of your home as

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Speaker 1: it is called in the law, a playhouse, a shed,

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Speaker 1: a storage pod, or whatever, because it's a perfect place

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Speaker 1: for someone to hide and watch your house. So you

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Speaker 1: had a granny house and was there a burglar alarm?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: But the doors were locked. No, the doors were not locked.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I did not know.

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Speaker 2: That the doors. The back door was not locked and

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Speaker 2: oftentimes was not locked. Paulie opened her bedroom door, bedroom door,

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Speaker 2: He opened her bedroom door into the living room, and

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Speaker 2: he was standing there. And we know that he came

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Speaker 2: in through the back because the person living in the

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Speaker 2: granny unit witnessed him enter the house. But he said

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Speaker 2: at trial and through interrogation that he believed that that

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Speaker 2: individual belonged in the house because he moved with such

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Speaker 2: a sense of purpose.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Richard Allen Davis, the perpetrator that

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Speaker 1: took Polly, had been spying on your home or spying

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Speaker 1: on Polly?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Why do you say that he stalked her? We

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Speaker 2: know he stalked her because it all came out of trial.

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Speaker 2: At least six people came and took to stand and

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Speaker 2: made the case that he started coming to Pedaluma as

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Speaker 2: a way station to visit his sister, and he became

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Speaker 2: more and more comfortable with it, and he started to

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Speaker 2: enclose around Polly's house. So over the course of about

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Speaker 2: six weeks, he started to spend more and more time

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Speaker 2: in Pedaluma, and he started to bring himself closer and

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Speaker 2: closer and closer to her house, almost as if he

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Speaker 2: were spending a web.

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Speaker 1: When did he first Polly?

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Speaker 2: We don't know when he first saw Pollie. We don't

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Speaker 2: know if it was that day or if it was

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Speaker 2: six weeks before. We don't know that because we can't

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Speaker 2: trust what he would say. I mean, what he said.

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Speaker 2: What he said is that it was all a big misunderstanding,

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Speaker 2: that he was high on pot and beer and the

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Speaker 2: next thing, he knew she was there. But we know

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Speaker 2: that that's not the truth. We absolutely know that he

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Speaker 2: stalked her, he identified her. And as I've said before,

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Speaker 2: what can a twelve year old girl do against a

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Speaker 2: determined predator with a weapon. And it turns out there

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Speaker 2: was nothing that she could really do with that, I

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Speaker 2: don't say that. No, what she could have done, and

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Speaker 2: what she should have done is scream, go scream and

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Speaker 2: not go with him, Absolutely is what she should have done.

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Speaker 2: Never should a child leave that point.

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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is, and I've said this so

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Speaker 1: many times, I've said, isn't it odd that the parents

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Speaker 1: didn't hear anything? Isn't that freakishly unusual? It's not. It

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Speaker 1: is not. There have been times mark when I would

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Speaker 1: wake up at night and Lucy, usually Lucy sometimes John

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Speaker 1: David would be standing right there doing this to me.

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Speaker 1: And I consider myself a very light sleeper. I didn't

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Speaker 1: hear a thing. It happens your former wife didn't hear

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Speaker 1: a thing. No, nothing, no, And it's almost as if

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Speaker 1: you kind of blame the sleeping person. It's not their fault. No, So,

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Speaker 1: how he came in an unlocked door, likely unlocked door

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Speaker 1: and walked straight in and was waiting at her bedroom.

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Speaker 1: You had never had contact with him at all, never, none, whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely no idea who this individual was.

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Speaker 1: And it's your belief he had been stalking.

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Speaker 2: It's not my belief. It was proven.

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Speaker 1: You're right with the six witnesses.

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Speaker 2: Correct, six different witnesses, and each one of those individuals,

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Speaker 2: interestingly enough, knew that he didn't belong there, and the

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Speaker 2: female witnesses would cross the street when he came because

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Speaker 2: they were put off either by his prison tattoos, by

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Speaker 2: his surly demeanor, by his dead eyes, or by his

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Speaker 2: public drinking. Every last one of those individuals, but not

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Speaker 2: one of those individuals ever informed law enforcement, which would

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Speaker 2: have given them probable cause to approach him and say

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Speaker 2: who are you?

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Speaker 1: And where did these six witnesses spot him in relation

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Speaker 1: to Polly's.

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Speaker 2: Home, all within three block radius.

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Speaker 1: Just walking around the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just be in there. The last one prior

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Speaker 2: to the abduction, noticed him in a park diagonally across.

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Speaker 1: The corner for Paul Lord and having a park in a.

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Speaker 2: Park looking back towards Polly's house, sitting with who turned

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Speaker 2: out to be his sister, a woman who turned out

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Speaker 2: to be a sister, both drinking out of a brown

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Speaker 2: paper bag, and a week later she was gone.

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Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting about that neighborhood. That was

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Speaker 1: a nice neighborhood. It was a pretty good and you

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Speaker 1: would not expect to see vagrants sitting in the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: drinking booze out of a paper bag.

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Speaker 2: Here's the right there, here's the problem. There were two

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Speaker 2: parks within close proximity. One of those parks allowed public drinking,

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Speaker 2: so and it was right across the screen from the

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Speaker 2: Greyhound station, which is how he was originally getting there.

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Speaker 2: So he would go to the Greyhound station, he would

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Speaker 2: see vagrants drinking in that park and ultimately join those vagrants,

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Speaker 2: ultimately became comfortable in that venue, and then, unfortunately, the

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Speaker 2: rest is tragic history.

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Speaker 1: What did police do immediately when Polly goes missing.

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Speaker 2: Well, the very first police officer on the scene obviously

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Speaker 2: contacted as many people as he possibly could. They put

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Speaker 2: out an all points bulletin, and the all points bulletin

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Speaker 2: unfortunately said this information is not for press release. And

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Speaker 2: as a result of that, dispatchers at the various jurisdictions

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Speaker 2: did not relay the information that there had just been

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Speaker 2: a kidnapping to deputies in the cars, because they thought

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Speaker 2: the press might be monitoring those radio frequencies. Therefore, when

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Speaker 2: that incident that I mentioned earlier occurred about an hour

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Speaker 2: after Paully was kidnapped, there were two deputies present who

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Speaker 2: were right there with the perpetrator, and instead of pursuing

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Speaker 2: who he was and why he was on a private

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Speaker 2: country road at midnight, helped him pull his vehicle out

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Speaker 2: of a ditch, which is why he didn't leave on

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Speaker 2: his own, and sent him along on his way within

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Speaker 2: an hour of Polly being kidnapped. I did know this

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Speaker 2: part of the story, that they had him before I

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Speaker 2: was even notified that PAULI had been kidnapped. They had

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Speaker 2: him and he said vile things, drinking beer in front

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Speaker 2: of them. He had threatened somebody on that property a

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Speaker 2: few minutes earlier. He had threatened the babysitter that was leaving,

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Speaker 2: and no, they let him go.

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Speaker 1: Mark, how did you find out Polly was missing?

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Speaker 2: I got a call from the estranged stepfather who told me.

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Speaker 2: Number One. First, he called my wife. He told Violet

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Speaker 2: she didn't want to listen. She gave the phone to me.

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Speaker 2: He told me what had happened, and he said, don't

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Speaker 2: come up to Pedaluma. The police don't want to distract

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00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 2: father trampling evidence. So I did two things. Number One,

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00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 2: I called Petaluma police to confirm that this actually had occurred.

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Speaker 2: And then I called Polly's mother to confirm that it

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00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 2: actually had occurred. And then I called the FBI. I

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Speaker 2: called the FBI because there's something in my mindset Lindberg,

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00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 2: the Lindberg baby in the FBI. And it turns out

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00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 2: that it was probably the smartest thing that I did

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Speaker 2: during that entire ordeal, because they came in and they

294
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 2: brought all of their vast resources, which ultimately I think

295
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 2: helped to solve the case.

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Speaker 1: Mark when a child goes missing, if you could relay

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Speaker 1: what the parents need to do immediately, what's the first

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Speaker 1: thing they need to do.

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Speaker 2: The very first thing they need to do is confirm

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00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 2: that the child actually is not in the house. And

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00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 2: you can do that in a variety of ways.

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00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 1: You can write John and a ramsay, sure they forgot

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00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: to look in a ram Sure.

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Speaker 2: Sure you check claustes, you check under the couch, you

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00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 2: check any place a child maybe hiding. Then you contact

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00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: nine to one one, no question about. You have to

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00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 2: call nine one one, and you have to give them

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00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: as detailed a description of what happened to the best

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00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 2: of your knowledge that you can. What does a child

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Speaker 2: look like, what was the child wearing? Does a child

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00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: have any distinguishing marks that are obviously visible, those kinds

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00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: of things. Then I think you need to contact every

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00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: other local law enforcement agency and let them know, don't

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00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 2: depend on anybody else to do it. And then you

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00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: should call the FBI. Then you should call media assignment disks,

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00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 2: not that they're going to give you an interview, but

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00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 2: that they know that you're there, and they know that

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Speaker 2: if this turns into something that you're available to talk

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Speaker 2: about your child, that you're there to advocate for your

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Speaker 2: missing child, because nobody can do that better than the

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00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: parent themselves. Then I think it's very important to engage

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00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 2: social media, something that we didn't have available. You know,

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Speaker 2: Paully was the first missing child on the internet. There

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Speaker 2: was no social media at that time. But now, well

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Speaker 2: here let me give you an example. When Paullie disappeared,

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00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 2: we on the day after she disappeared, we acquired a

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Speaker 2: mailing list and then we started reproducing her flyer. That

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00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 2: was on the third day after. On the fourth day

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Speaker 2: after we started putting the mailing, we started putting the

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Speaker 2: flyer into envelopes and addressing the envelopes. On the fifth

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Speaker 2: day after, somebody mortgaged their house so we could buy

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00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 2: stamps so that we could send these things out to

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00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 2: places like hospitals, homeless shelters, law enforcement agencies. On the

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00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: eighth day they started those flyers started arriving at their destinations.

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00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 2: Now you can go on to Facebook and you can

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00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 2: create a missing page for your child in ten minutes.

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00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: You can load up as many photos as you want,

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00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: you can load up video, you can link articles, you

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00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 2: can engage yourself with missing person communities, and do so

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00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: much more for absolutely no money at all than we

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00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 2: were able to do over the course of eight days,

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00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: for many, many thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 1: Not just the money mark.

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Speaker 2: But the time, well, the time, the times, the critical thing, critical,

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00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: crucial and why is that That's because Nancy, within seventy

346
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: four percent of them will be dead within the first

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00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: three hours. There is absolutely no time to waste in it,

348
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 2: something that absolutely everybody understands. That's why you have to

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00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: engage immediately, and you have to engage as many people

350
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: as you possibly can, people that can make a difference.

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00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: You do it immediately, because now you have things like

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Speaker 2: the Amber Alert, which didn't exist back in those days,

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00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 2: so an APB would never go out again, not in

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00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: this modern era that says this information is not for

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00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 2: press release, because they know, they know that your best

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00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: chance of recovering that child is to find the individual

357
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 2: that took that child and to use that information to

358
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: hopefully bring it home and turn in absolutely everybody. Everybody

359
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: becomes the eyes and ears of law enforcement at that point.

360
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: Truckers on the road, people driving in their cars, people

361
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: at home, everybody. Do you hear something, do you see something?

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00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: You know something that's going to make a different in

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00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: this child's life.

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Speaker 1: With us here in our home is Mark Class. As

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00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: I always say, Polly's dad, who has devoted his life

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Speaker 1: to finding missing people, specifically children, and rescuing them. What

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00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: he knows, what he has learned, what he has lived through,

368
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: can't be fit into a to do list or a checklist.

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00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: It's really a way of life that you adopt to

370
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: say your children, it's tax season and by now I

371
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: know we're all a little tired of numbers, but here's

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00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: an important number you need to hear. Sixteen point five

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00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: billion dollars. That's how much money and refunds the IRS

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00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another number,

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00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: twenty percent. That's the overall increase in identity theft related

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00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: tax fraud in twenty twenty four alone. But it's not

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00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: all bad news. Here's a good number. One hundred million.

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00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every single second.

379
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: If your identity stolen, Lifelocks US based restoration specialists will

380
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: fix it, backed by another good number, the million dollar

381
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Speaker 1: protection package. In fact, restorations guaranteed or your money back.

382
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: Don't face identity theft in financial losses alone. Their strength

383
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Speaker 1: in numbers with LifeLock identity theft protection for tax season

384
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Speaker 1: and beyond, Join now and save up to forty percent

385
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Speaker 1: your first year. Call one eight hundred LifeLock and use

386
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Speaker 1: Primo code Nancy or go to LifeLock dot com slash

387
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Speaker 1: Nancy for forty percent off. Terms apply. Thank you LifeLock

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00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: for being our partner. Can I ask you a question

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Speaker 1: about Polly, because in my mind, Polly is so much

390
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: more now than just a little girl. Polly symbolizes everything

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00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: good and little girls and boys, and it has galvanized

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00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: through your story. Polly's story has galvanized the crime fighting

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00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: community in a way. I don't know if you see

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00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: it in a different way, but in a way you

395
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: may not understand. Polly class is a name that is

396
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: on all of our minds. But I've never learned what

397
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Speaker 1: Polly was like as a child. I've never known that.

398
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: Well, I do understand what you're saying, and I know

399
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: that she was the arbiter of a lot of change.

400
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: But Polly was a little girl. I mean, it's like

401
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: your little girl, just a beautiful little kid who was

402
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: happy and full of life. She loved performing arts. She

403
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: was a wonderful little actress in that that's why her

404
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: friends thought that she was just trying to demonstrate her

405
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: acting chops, when in fact she was being kidnapped by

406
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: this guy. She was a little musician. She played the

407
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: clarinet and the piano, and she was at a point

408
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: in her life at twelve years old, close to thirteen,

409
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: where she was starting to realize her own potential and

410
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: understand that she could be an individual with her own

411
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: thoughts and her own direction in life, and that was

412
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: the place where she was at the year before I

413
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: had taught her how to swim, and she was turning

414
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: into a wonderful little swimmer. We were at that time

415
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: playing baseball. She wanted to play ball with the boys,

416
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 2: so we were shagging balls together and then moving in

417
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: this direction so that she could realize her potential as

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00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: an individual and move forward in life. She loved to sing,

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00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: she was happy, she was sweet, she was pretty, and

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Speaker 2: she was the love of my life.

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00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us here in

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00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: our home. Joining me now in addition to my longtime

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00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: friend and colleague Mark Class, special guest Francy Haiks, the

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00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: first national Coordinator of child exploitation Prevention and interdiction for

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00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: the entire country. Also with me investigative journalist Marlena Schaivo. Ladies,

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00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: thank you for being Winnes. And you know, I know

427
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: you heard Mark's story, Polly's story and what we can

428
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: take from that and how we can use that knowledge.

429
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: But I want to address the case of nine year

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00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: old Jessica Lunsford. Now I got to know Jesse's father, Mark,

431
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: and I can still remember him he drove up on

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00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: a motorcycle. Remember he always drove his motorcycle. And I

433
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: was on location, Marlne, you remember that, and he got

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00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: off the motorcycle. We weren't even introduced, and he started crying,

435
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: just crying, and I mean full on crying about Jesse.

436
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: Jessica and I always called her the girl in the

437
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: pink hat because of that beautiful photo of her wearing

438
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: the pink hat. And that's how I think of her.

439
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 1: You know, Marlena, you and I were on location in

440
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: the field at the search area. That's a story that's

441
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: hard to forget. Refresh, I recollections regarding how Jessica was taken.

442
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: How did she get taken out of the home.

443
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: Well, the whole family went to sleep that night, Nancy,

444
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: like any other family. And when the morning came, Jesse

445
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: was no longer in her room.

446
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: And they lived in a very small single dwelling. You know,

447
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: it was very small, and I couldn't imagine how nobody

448
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: heard anything. So they all go to sleep. Who was

449
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: in the home.

450
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 4: It was Jesse's father, her grandparents, and I believe her

451
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 4: little brother.

452
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: You know, I had forgotten the grandparents were there too,

453
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: and same as with Polly. Nobody heard a thing.

454
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 3: Nobody heard a thing, so immediately they launched your search.

455
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 3: This search goes on for three full weeks Nancy with

456
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: no good leads, and then arrest happens all the way

457
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: up in Savannah, Georgia of a guy named John Evander Cooey,

458
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: which seems unrelated because it's in Georgia, but it turns

459
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: out he was living in the same neighborhood as Jesse

460
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: Lunsford when she went missing, so they brought him in.

461
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: When they brought him in on an arrest warrant for drugs,

462
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 3: they also questioned him about the night that Jesse went

463
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: in this they let him go.

464
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: They let him go, but really at that time they

465
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: had no reason to connect him. Here he is with

466
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: drugs in Savannah, Georgia, and Jesse Jessica goes missing all

467
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: the way back at homicide of Florida, so they really

468
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: didn't have a reason to connect him.

469
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: Well, they asked him about his residence there and he

470
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: said he was just staying with a relative, So then

471
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: they got permission from that relative to search the home

472
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: and it was at that point where they made enough

473
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: they found enough evidence to make an.

474
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: Arrest Now, the thing about the home, it's a small home,

475
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: very small home, and it's a low crime area and

476
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: it's a very close community. You know, at first, people

477
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: typically look at the family because the dad's there, maybe

478
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: the mom's there, the grandparents are there. They didn't hear

479
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: a thing, and that's kind of hard for people on

480
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: the outside looking in to accept. So you look naturally

481
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: at the man in the home. You were not in

482
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: the home. You were at your home when Polly went

483
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: missing with her biomem. But that's where they first start.

484
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: The family was pretty much cleared, just like that in

485
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: the case of Jessica Lunsford, as they should have been.

486
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: And then the police were basically with no clues. So

487
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: how did somebody get into that home? How did they

488
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: get her? Was she in the same room with the

489
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: little brother? Now?

490
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 4: And what happened was and unlike some other cases, they

491
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: got a full confession from John Cooey and he explained

492
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: and filled in all the holes at about three am.

493
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I mean, if he's to be trusted, but let's just

494
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: take his story with the box of salt and move forward.

495
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: What does he say.

496
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: He says at three am he enters the home through

497
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 4: an unlocked door, and he said he was just there

498
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: to burglarize the police, but then he saw Jessica and

499
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: acted on impulse.

500
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: I don't buy that because I have dealt with ten

501
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: thousand burglars. There's burglars, and there are people that attack

502
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: other people. And in this case, you don't go in

503
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: to commit a burglary and go, oh, there's a little girl.

504
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: I think I'll take her and molester and killer. No,

505
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: that that's not the same thing. And he had a

506
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: criminal history or comes in. Now you may disagree, and

507
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: if so, jump in. When a burglar comes into burglarrise

508
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: and they see a person, they go oh, and they leave.

509
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: They leave. There's plenty of houses to steal the DVD player.

510
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: Well, burglars don't become sex offenders because they see a child.

511
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: And that he had been staying. As you pointed out

512
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: more Lena with relatives, as I recall kind of caddy

513
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: cornered to Jessica o ons for his home sixty five

514
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: yards sixty five yards and you know every time she

515
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: came out in that yard to play or ride or

516
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: by or play with the little brother, he was staring

517
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: right at her. That is why he went into that home, Marlina, and.

518
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: He's a registered sex defender, by the way, and he

519
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: said that he did see her playing in the yard

520
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 3: and he thought she was about six years old. Not

521
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: really sure why he gave that information, but yes, you're right, Nancy.

522
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: He went in specifically for her and he brought her

523
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: back to the home where. You know what's similar right

524
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: here is that Polly was stalked and watched by her killer.

525
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: Jessica Lunsford was stalked and watched. This guy was out

526
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: of town visiting the area. Cooey who murdered Jesse.

527
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: LUNs for the girl in the pink hat was living

528
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: there with a relative. Stay as they said, stay.

529
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: You know what else is similar? In Polly's case, he said,

530
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: don't say don't scream. Don't scream, and no one did.

531
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: In Jesse's case, he said, don't say anything, and she didn't,

532
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: which is the same thing the perps said. And Elizabeth Smart,

533
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 3: don't say anything or I'll kill your little sister, I'll

534
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 3: hurt your friends.

535
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: Don't make a sound. Was it ever confirmed that the

536
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: door was unlocked.

537
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: It was confirmed, actually the front door was unlocked, and

538
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: then there was a backscreened in porch which had a slash,

539
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: so he must have well, we don't know, but there

540
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 3: was a slash.

541
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 4: And then the door that led to that screened in

542
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: porch was also unlocked.

543
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. You have to consider the source when

544
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: Kooey says what happened. But if the family is confirming

545
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: they had the door unlocked, then it was unlocked. At

546
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: least he was telling the truth about that much. And

547
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to come down too hard on the

548
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: family mark class because they had the doorlocked. But I

549
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: guarantee you if that door had been locked, he wouldn't

550
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: have gotten in that night anyway.

551
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah about And I think that's a big takeaway, isn't it.

552
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: That's more simple.

553
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: Regardless of who you are or where you are, you're vulnerable,

554
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: and you should lock your doors, and you should lock

555
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: your windows, and you should have good dead bolts, and

556
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: you should have good latches on the windows. And if

557
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: you do that, he's not going to get into the house, certainly,

558
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: not without making a lot of noise and letting people know.

559
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: And again, I don't want to trash the parents. I

560
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: don't want to drag the parents through the mud. I

561
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: don't want to attack them. I want to learn from

562
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: what happened. That's what I want to do.

563
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 4: There's just no doubt that KOOI would have done what

564
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: happened in Polly's case, some measure pre surveillance, and this

565
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 4: was a planned crime. You don't go into an occupied

566
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: home where parents are unless you have a relatively secure

567
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 4: knowledge that you're going to be able to get in

568
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: and out. These people don't want to get caught, they

569
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: want to get in and get out. So I don't

570
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 4: doubt at all that he would have planned it. Maybe

571
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 4: test did the doors ahead of time other nights to

572
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 4: see what was the level of security at this home,

573
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: and he would have understood it was an easy in

574
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 4: for him.

575
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 5: He went in for Jessica and he left with her.

576
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: Now, at that point, Mark, everything went wrong with the

577
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: search and how it was conducted. Not really anybody's fault,

578
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: it's just the way it played out. Remember the command

579
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: center that you pointed out to me earlier explaining the

580
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: problem with that.

581
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: Well, the command center was put up right on the

582
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: property itself, so they immediately compromised the crime scene. Immediately.

583
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: They had a lot of officers in and out, shredding

584
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: the ground. Really, I mean there was really no way

585
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: to do a viable investigation given the level of a

586
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: law enforcement presence right at the sport.

587
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: Why did that have ruined the possibility of a scent

588
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: dog a dog?

589
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: I think so it would have. It would have compromised

590
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,479
Speaker 2: that as well.

591
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: You bring in volunteers, cops, UH supplies, you put up

592
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: a tent, you have fax machines, this that making posters

593
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: right there at the crime scene. If they had brought

594
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: in the dogs immediately, the dogs would have led them,

595
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: I assumed, straight sixty five yards away to Koohy's place.

596
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 4: Wasn't that where she was? Unfortunately, yes, according to the case,

597
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: he had. He held her for an entire weekend. He

598
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 4: brought her, he brought her back to the home, He

599
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: sexually assaulted her, kept her over night, sexually assaulted her again,

600
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: and then put her in a closet and told her

601
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: to stay quiet. What you say to Mark about the

602
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 4: about the about the command center is so important, Nancy,

603
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 4: because the FBI trained you know this park. The FBI

604
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 4: trains to look for children in concentric circles, starting at

605
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 4: their home and moving out. If the commands center is

606
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 4: interfering with their sort of spatial sense, they don't see

607
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 4: these neighbors' houses that are that close because the command

608
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 4: center is right there. And even when they did go

609
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 4: to his house, they didn't search the way the whole

610
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 4: house the way they're taught.

611
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: You hung your head down when she said that.

612
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: Why, well, because listen, local jurisdictions don't know how to

613
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: deal with these kinds of situations, which I rarely say that, well,

614
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: which is why I mentioned earlier, what are the things

615
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: that what are the steps you take? You contact the FBI,

616
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: you get the FBI involved, because they're not going to

617
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: allow a command center to be put at ground zero.

618
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: They're just not going to let that happen. They're going

619
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: to work with the authorities to do a thorough investigation

620
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: because because they have a protocol, they know how to

621
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: deal with missing children. They deal with missing children thousands

622
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 2: of times a year. Local jurisdictions probably.

623
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: Never you know, Mark, to have a registered offender sixty

624
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: five yards away from your child and nobody knew. Now

625
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: the sister, Jueye's sister knew, and she had him there

626
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: and knew he was being exposed to. She had exposed

627
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: the children, Nancy.

628
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 4: She had had him in her home with a two.

629
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Year old living there. So here we've got Jesse Jessica Lunsford,

630
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: the girl in the paint hat, sixty five yards away

631
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 1: from her front door. The command center is set up.

632
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: She's right there and she doesn't know to try to

633
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: get out. She can't get out. She's in the closet, petrified, petrified,

634
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 1: being molested, over and over and over. Long story short.

635
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: The cops come to the door, to Cooey's door, and

636
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: what happened.

637
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 4: They searched the home, but they didn't go in the

638
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 4: room that she was in, is my understanding. I'm not

639
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 4: entirely sure why you would search hers. She might not

640
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 4: go into now, she was still alive in the closet.

641
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 4: So had they gone in the room, had they opened the.

642
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 3: Closet door, Jesse Lunford would Lunsford would be alive today, Nancy.

643
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: And the mode of death of that child has haunted me,

644
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: has stayed with me forever. She was actually buried alive.

645
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: He coaxed her.

646
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: Into a plastic bag, saying that he was going to

647
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 4: transport her home that way. So she gets in the

648
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 4: bag and he.

649
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: Digs a two and a half foot grave, throws her

650
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: in there and buries her when they found her. When

651
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: they found the remains, they saw holes where she tried

652
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: to get air through the bag by.

653
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: Poking a hole. How near the home was she buried?

654
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 4: She was right there, I like, basically out his front

655
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 4: door exactly. It wasn't far at all. On my understanding,

656
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 4: Marida cases that once the police came to the door,

657
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 4: that's when it clipped in his mind.

658
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: I came to kill her.

659
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 4: I'm going to kill her, and so overnight that's when

660
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 4: he digs a hole and buries her alive.

661
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: There's so many red bells of alarm here, just flags

662
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: waving up what went wrong? Mark? Is the home scenario.

663
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: There were no prior beatings or child abuse or malnourishment,

664
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: nothing like that within their home. They left the door locked.

665
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: They had a registered sex offender living sixty five yards away,

666
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: and they didn't know, and then the scene was compromised.

667
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: I still have never understood why tracker dogs did not

668
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: find her sixty five yards away. I mean they can

669
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: go all the way from Lacy Peterson's home down the

670
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: highway to the Stanfrancesco Bay or she was disposed, she

671
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: and her unborn child. Why couldn't they find Jesse lanes

672
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: for sixty five yards away.

673
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: There were too many sins, There were too many people

674
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: in the area.

675
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: So another thing is to maintain the scene. I preserve

676
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: the scene well.

677
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 4: And for parents, as a parent, you absolutely have to

678
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 4: know who lives in your neighborhood or in neighborhoods here.

679
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: You can't go to the next door neighbor and go ps,

680
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: are you a registered charl a sex offender?

681
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 4: You mean this case? You're right, Sorena, this case you

682
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 4: would he didn't live there. The Sex Offender Registration and

683
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 4: Notification Act is supposed to account for that. Every state

684
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 4: in this country is mandated to have a sex offender

685
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 4: registry by zip code. You can put in your zip

686
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: code and see what sex offender?

687
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: Don't you have that on the class website?

688
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: Where were the first ones to do that?

689
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is now. I have it on crime

690
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: online dot Com and I got it. I got the

691
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: idea from you. Does that work? She's absolutely right? How

692
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: does it work?

693
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's Megan's law. It's after another tragedy of a

694
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: little girl who was taken by somebody in the neighborhood.

695
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: Orpe said. The three year old little girl was flirting

696
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: with him.

697
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, Jesse Timendiquas was that character's name.

698
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: What Megan's Law in fact, does a couple of things.

699
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: That mandates that law enforcement has to put a public

700
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: registry up and it also mandates that if you are

701
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: a registered sex offender, you need to register with your

702
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: local sheriff within just a couple of days I think

703
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: generally two or three days of being released from confinement,

704
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: so that they can then make that information available to

705
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: people in the neighborhood like us, like us, so that

706
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: you will be able to get an idea of those

707
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: known predators or those known risks within your city.

708
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: You really rely on the predator to register himself.

709
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what the penalties for non compliance are.

710
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: If the penalty for non compliance is going back to

711
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: the joint, then absolutely they're going to register.

712
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: How do you get somebody like Kooey who goes and

713
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: stays with his sister for a period of time he's

714
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: out of his zip code.

715
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 4: Well, he was violating federal law and federal prosecutes. I

716
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 4: prosecute these cases myself in federal court. They called failure

717
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: to register cases. If they fail to register and they

718
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 4: get caught that's the point, though they have to be caught.

719
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 4: That is a federal felony that carries a strong penalty.

720
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 4: And Koohey was in violation because what he didn't inform

721
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: his local sheriff now he had what was residing there.

722
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: I get it, and Franci, you're absolutely right. But what

723
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: can a regular person do to discover a registered sex

724
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 1: offender is sixty five yards from their front door?

725
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 4: You have to go to the National Sex Offender Registrate

726
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 4: and put in your ZIP code and hope and hope

727
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 4: and hope that all our ender's a run it. But

728
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 4: I think it's important to note, Nancy that while there

729
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 4: are some eight hundred thousand registered sex offenders right now,

730
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 4: we I know that child sexual abuse is massively underreported,

731
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 4: so there's lots of sex offenders that aren't registered.

732
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 5: So don't take that as the end all.

733
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: Beef ye Acui ac centator the lot's register, but had

734
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: gone out of his zip codes, right.

735
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: But you could also say, because you don't know and

736
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to track every sex predator,

737
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 3: those are the safety tips that you're talking about, Nancy,

738
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: about taking precautions within your home because you don't know

739
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 3: who's around, because even if someone isn't living in your neighborhood,

740
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 3: someone could be passing by taking notes of your child.

741
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: When all I'm back around.

742
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: Right with Polly. He didn't live there, but he was

743
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: stalking Polly even though he didn't live in the neighborhood.

744
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: I'm referring to Davis. I want to move from just

745
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: goings for the girl in the paint hat to Dylan

746
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: and Shasta Groenie. Dylan and Shasta Gronie is a case

747
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: I remember, there was one of the worst cases I

748
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: have ever investigated or covered. In that case, as I recall,

749
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: it was in Cordalaine, Idaho, and I recall it was

750
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: in a very rural area, which reminded me a lot

751
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: of where I grew up. And the purp in that

752
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: case was totally unconnected to the family. For instance, in

753
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: Polly's case, Davis had been hanging around the area and stalking,

754
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: not really a connection but a tinuous connection. In Jesse's

755
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: Jesse Lunfer's case, he was living in the neighborhood with

756
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: his sister. In this case, Dylan is Shasta Grone. There

757
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: was no connection what happened, So.

758
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 4: Dylan Shaster growny where in Cordelaine, Idaho, one of those

759
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 4: idyllic communities.

760
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 5: I've been there.

761
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place, rural.

762
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 4: Lots of trees and land, and they had an above

763
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 4: ground point.

764
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: When you fly over it all you see your tree.

765
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: That's right.

766
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 4: It's a beautiful place and the Lake Cordelaine is gorgeous.

767
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 4: So they have an above ground pool.

768
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 5: In their yard.

769
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 4: And there's an interstate that runs so that if you're

770
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 4: driving on the interstate and you happen to be glancing

771
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 4: to the side, you can see the above ground pool.

772
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: And the offender in this case was doing just that,

773
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 4: driving on the interstate, and he saw eight year old

774
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 4: Shasta Groni inner bathing suit, playing in the pool, and

775
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 4: it was then that he said to himself, I'm going

776
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 4: to take her. And he spent a significant amount of

777
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 4: time surveiling that family, which consisted of eight year old Shasta,

778
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 4: nine year old Dylan, their thirteen year old brother, their mother,

779
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 4: and a stepfather, and he decided.

780
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: All those people, all those people, but.

781
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 4: That did not dissuade him from his desire to take

782
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 4: Shasta and to take Dylan, they were only a year apart.

783
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: Did he want Shasta and took Dylan just because as

784
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: he want both of them. Well, his statements are not great.

785
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: We can't trust anything that he said. We have a

786
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: lot of information from Shasta who survived, and it was

787
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: very clear that when he broke into the house to

788
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: murder some members of her family, he removed Shasta and

789
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: Dylan only took them outside and then killed the older

790
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: brother and the parents in the house with Dylan and

791
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: Shasta outside and then took them. I mean, Mark, does

792
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: it seem to you as as if it is you want,

793
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: you covet that which you see. If he hadn't happened

794
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: to see them, this would never have happened.

795
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: It would have happened to somebody else, it would You're right,

796
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: that's what would have happened. And I think that's the

797
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 2: commonality between the three cases that we've talked about. We're

798
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: talking about, for want of better terminology, sexually sadistic psychopaths

799
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: that really could care less about what happens to anybody.

800
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: And none of these people because they all had histories,

801
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: they all had histories that were about sexually motivated crimes.

802
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 2: None of these characters should have been on the street.

803
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: They all should have been in prison. They all should

804
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: have we should have been protected from each and every

805
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: one of these individuals, but they were on the street.

806
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 2: It's a failure of government, it's a failure of the

807
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: criminal justice system.

808
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 4: Well, and this offender, while he didn't have any prior

809
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 4: convictions like that, the prosecutors have always suspected that he

810
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 4: is a serial killer and that there are multiple missing

811
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 4: young children that they think he is the one who

812
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 4: committed the offenses that murdered iifty lived near Dylan and Shasta.

813
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 4: He lived in Montana somewhere, and they were in Idaho.

814
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 4: They're right next to each other, so there's a lot

815
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 4: of people that work across the state borders. And then

816
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 4: he took Dylan and Shasta to a very remote area

817
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 4: in Montana and you know, pitched a camp where he

818
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 4: held them for weeks, torturing the children. And authorities think

819
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 4: he had that was not the first time.

820
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: Now I'm just sitting here listening, and you do not

821
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: graduate from zero to having an encampment solely for the

822
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: purpose of torturing children. That doesn't happen that way. There

823
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: had to be something between zero and one twenty mph.

824
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: Well, he had a computer that was full of encrypted files.

825
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 4: He had lots of child pornography. It's one of the

826
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 4: commonalities in these offenders. They almost always have a collection

827
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 4: of child pornography because that is where their sexual interest is.

828
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: So explain to me, Now I know how he Duncan

829
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 1: finds his target, Dylan and Shasta grone. He sees Shasta

830
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: playing in an above ground pool from the inner state.

831
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: There's no way the family could have seen that coming.

832
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: Now he stakes out the home, which is in the

833
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: middle of a rural, very idyllic area, and he watches

834
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: them unknown to them. That's right. How does he get in?

835
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 4: He just walks in. The house is not secured because

836
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 4: they're all there. It's not a high crime area. There's

837
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 4: virtually no crime. They had no reason to feel that

838
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 4: they were on telling you.

839
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: That's something, Francy haiks. If I am in this home,

840
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: the doors are locked. It's a simple amount of turning it.

841
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: If the children are here. They've locked me out many

842
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: times because it's second nature. They lock the door when

843
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: they come in. When I come in, I turn on

844
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: the alarm, not this motion sensor, the other alarm. So

845
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: if a window is broken or a door opens, the.

846
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 4: Alarm goes off.

847
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: It's second nature.

848
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 4: There's more of a reason to have your alarm because

849
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 4: you're there. But you and I have been in crime

850
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 4: for decades.

851
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 5: We are cynical, we are experienced.

852
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: We view the world.

853
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 4: Through that lens.

854
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: The grownies didn't view the world. I don't expect people

855
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: to live in fear or living or make their home

856
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: a fortress, but I want to from what happened. Yes,

857
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: so they're all home. It's the mother, the steps, father,

858
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: the thirteen year old brother, dal Dylan, and sat.

859
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: Was there?

860
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: A grandparent died there, not that I'm aware of. Five people.

861
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 4: Yes, cats, dogs, not that I'm aware.

862
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: Forget the cat. They don't they they're not a help dog.

863
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 4: No dog if there was one, I didn't hear about it.

864
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: Was there a dog and I wouldn't Polly, No, there wasn't.

865
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: So he just walks right in. Were they asleep? Not

866
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: that they were watching TV?

867
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 4: They were watching TV, which I think is probably why

868
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 4: the house was unsecured.

869
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: It hadn't even gone to bed yet. Why did he

870
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: think he could do this with all the people home awake?

871
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 4: You know, I think he had ultimately because I think

872
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 4: it wasn't his first time, so This is a very

873
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 4: to me, this is also a very personal, rage filled

874
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 4: kind of crime. There's nothing clinical about what he did.

875
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 4: This is, to Mark's point, a true psychopath with no feelings,

876
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 4: but who enjoys the torture and the brutality, and that's

877
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 4: what makes them so dangerous.

878
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: And then he takes the children in this encampment. How

879
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: far away, oh, just an hour or two, not far

880
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: about sixty five miles seventy miles away. The children did

881
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: not have a cell phone, definitely not, and there was

882
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: no way to track them.

883
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 4: No, they just vanished. And of course it was there

884
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 4: was a period of time, there was a lagging period

885
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 4: of time when someone discovered the bodies to even start

886
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 4: looking for Dylan and Chafts.

887
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: You know, that's really important, Mark, when I find out

888
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: generally a timeline. That's why I really like to start

889
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: is a timeline. That's just the way I do it,

890
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: because I like to factor. And they've been gone five hours,

891
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: then they've been gone three hundred, they've gone three hundred

892
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: miles maybe sixty times five sixty miles an hour. Whether

893
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: that's correct or not, that's just the way I tabulate

894
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: the timeline. In this case, how much time passed before

895
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: police seemed to realize anything had.

896
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 4: Happened, hours and hours, hours and hours, because it wasn't

897
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 4: until the next day.

898
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: This is that that.

899
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: Well, that means that your umbrella first of all, that

900
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: means that your umbrella is vast. That they could be

901
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 2: almost anywhere. If it's five or six hours, five times

902
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: sixty is what two hundred and fifty miles.

903
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, we never found them to that point.

904
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 4: Searchers never found those children.

905
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: And the way, do you remember, Marlena, We went over

906
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: and over and over this, and now when I see

907
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: this video, it's still I can hardly stand to look

908
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: at it. He molests Dylan and Shasta over and over

909
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: and over. Shasta is forced to be in the room

910
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: while he molested Dylan. For some reason, he kills Dylan.

911
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: Why did he kill Dylan?

912
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 4: Shasta says that there was an accidental shot. I have

913
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 4: heard the audio tape that the offender recorded a video

914
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 4: and audio of multiple times that he tortured Dylan. He

915
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 4: recorded it for his own viewing enjoyment later. This was

916
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 4: a really evil person. You just have to use the

917
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 4: word evil. And I have heard the recording and I

918
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 4: Shasta thinks the first shot was an accident, and that's

919
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 4: what she recalls, according to what I've heard, the worst

920
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 4: thing I've ever heard. It was not an accident. And

921
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 4: you know that you can go so far overboard, and

922
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 4: I'm just not going to describe the details. But the

923
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 4: offender recorded his repeated torture and what was in effect,

924
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 4: his constantly many killing Dylan and bringing him back to

925
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 4: life using CPR and then doing it again. He was

926
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 4: a true psychopathic torture. There's just no way around it.

927
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: Let me move past that, if I can mentally move

928
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: past that, they cause Dylan is dead and he Duncan,

929
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: Joseph Edward Duncan brings Shasta into a convenience store, like

930
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: at a gas store, gas station, and they are actually

931
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 1: walking around and she's following him, and you can see

932
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 1: she's very withdrawn, she's completely detached, but she's not trying

933
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: to run. And that has been brought up a million

934
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: times why a child will not run away from the kidnapper.

935
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 5: Because he seems like God to her.

936
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: He had ultimate power. He had mut her know that

937
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: I would light him with God, maybe Satan, but with

938
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 1: entire power over her, and fear she's a child, she's

939
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: so beaten down and has been beaten and tortured for

940
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: so long. She's eight years old, and they're seen walking

941
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: through the gas station on video surveillance.

942
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and we're not talking about this case,

943
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 3: but you know they use this intimidation a lot of times,

944
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 3: these captors, you know, they intimidate them, scare them into silence.

945
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 3: Like in the case of Seorn Hornback, he was free

946
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 3: to walk around the complex, he had a self phone

947
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 3: at one point, he was allowed to date.

948
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 4: He had all these options to escape.

949
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: And never did.

950
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 4: It's the psychological fear and oppression and just the power

951
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 4: that they have over these kids because they're so impressionable,

952
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 4: they're so young, and their whole psyche has been destroyed.

953
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 4: So they're in a convenience store.

954
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: Of what happens.

955
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 4: The clerk recognizes Shasta because she's saying for weeks on

956
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 4: a miracle and there's been a lot of press about it,

957
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 4: and she recognized Shasta and she calls the police.

958
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: Well, I know that even in your own home with

959
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: a television on at what ten o'clock at night, that

960
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: you need to have safety precautions in place. It's not

961
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: this case is being highlighted specifically because the family was

962
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: not asleep. Always everybody's asleep, they don't hear anything. In

963
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: this case, they were all up together watch a TV

964
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: like we do every night, trying to find something on

965
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: TV that children can watch. Is when the devil comes

966
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: into their home and ruins their lives.

967
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 4: You have to secure your own You have to have

968
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 4: a dog. You should have an alarm system. If your

969
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 4: kids are allergic, you've got to find a way.

970
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: Oh and that reminds me of something. You know. People

971
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: hear the word alarm system and they think thousands and

972
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands. That's not true. The more get one

973
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: that you put in your cell for like ninety nine dollars,

974
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: and it's so worth it.

975
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 4: You know.

976
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 5: I bought a pet cam recently.

977
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 4: It costs forty nine dollars to have this pet cam,

978
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 4: and I've got an app on my phone, so it's

979
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 4: completely free based on my internet or my cell service.

980
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 5: And it's a motion detecting camera.

981
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 4: Anytime anything including my animals, walk by it, I get

982
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 4: an alert on my phone. It costs forty nine dollars.

983
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: We are not here to sell anything. There are many

984
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: many home alarm systems out there on the market. I

985
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: don't care which one you get, just get one and

986
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: when you're home turned it on. Yes, that means whenever

987
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: you let the dog out, or a child goes out,

988
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: or you go out, it's gonna go off. You know

989
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: what that means. You have to get up and punch it,

990
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: by it and turn it off. That's all it means.

991
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: When I think back about how many crimes could have

992
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: been avoided if there had been an alarm, or if

993
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: the door had been locked. But it's all would it,

994
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: could have, should have. That is a takeaway that I

995
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: get from Dylan and Shasta Grownee. Then there is Danielle

996
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: Van Dam. And you know what I think of Marline

997
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: that you and I traveled to California to investigate, that

998
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: we covered that day after day after day, and what

999
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: I remember is the Mickey mouse earring. The Mickey mouse

1000
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: earring she lost one, and Danielle's body was so decomposed

1001
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: by the time they found her. They identify her by

1002
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: her Mickey Mouse earrings she was still wearing. And that

1003
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: case has stuck with me forever. Mark, this is practically

1004
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: in your backyard in California. Danielle van Damp, beautiful little

1005
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: girl eight nine years old at home with her parents

1006
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: that night. The mom had been out with friends. She

1007
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: had had a couple of drinks. She comes back, the

1008
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: dad was at home. What went wrong?

1009
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: They left the sliding door unlocked.

1010
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: Even sliding doors sliding left the problem. Sure, there's so

1011
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: easy even I can get into a sliding glass door. Yeah,

1012
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: what's the problem with sliding glass doors.

1013
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that there's any specific problem with

1014
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 2: sliding glass or is it. That's except that they're not

1015
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 2: being secured.

1016
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: That that's all it is.

1017
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 5: No dead bolt on a slide Yeah, I.

1018
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: Mean you could jack into a sliding glass door just

1019
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: like that.

1020
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 5: We should have a bar.

1021
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, the bar that comes down is there at option.

1022
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: A bar, even a piece of wood, anything that's holding it.

1023
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, mart Lena. If the

1024
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: sliding glass door is a jar or unlocked, I promise

1025
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: you they did not think to put the bar down

1026
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: in the bottom. Yeah, because that's another step to go through.

1027
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: So that night, the mom and dad are there. They

1028
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: really been attacked because they had been drinking and partying

1029
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: that night. But they came home. They were together.

1030
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: She came home, he was at home.

1031
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: A Yeah, so you were jumping in.

1032
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 4: Oh, I was just going to say that, Yes, the

1033
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 4: father was home with with with Dan Danielle that evening

1034
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 4: and she had gone to bed, and the mother had

1035
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 4: come home from being out that night and brought home

1036
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 4: a bunch of friends.

1037
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: So friends came from the bar home, and when she

1038
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: went missing, they were immediately under suspicion. They had nothing

1039
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,919
Speaker 1: to do with it. How did the purp get into

1040
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,479
Speaker 1: the home? It was an open sliding glass door. Were

1041
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: they still awake or were they all sleep when he

1042
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: came in? David Westerfield, they were asleep by that time.

1043
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: They were asleep by that And first, so they're out

1044
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: at a bar, the dad is at home. How does

1045
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: he get into the home?

1046
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 2: Well, well, the mom is still at the bar. The perpetrator, Westerfield, come,

1047
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: He sees her at the bar. He sees her at

1048
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: the bar, absolutely.

1049
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: Recognizes her because he's a.

1050
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: Neighbor, knows exactly who she is. He comes home, he

1051
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 2: goes through their backs.

1052
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 1: He's out, so he's who's at home with the kids,

1053
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:41,479
Speaker 1: and where's dad?

1054
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 2: Wondering all those things? Maybe maybe not, but he used

1055
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 2: that opportunity to get through the sliding glass door, go

1056
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: up into Danielle's bedroom, at which point mom came home.

1057
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: So he's up there hiding when the mother comes home.

1058
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,439
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. He's up there hiding when the mother

1059
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: comes home.

1060
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: She has no idea. Nope, did she check on I

1061
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: don't know, Danielle. It wouldn't matter though, because when you

1062
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: check on your child, you look to see if they're

1063
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: in their bed, if they're breathing, and shut the door

1064
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: and leave. You don't think, Wow, could somebody be hiding

1065
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: in the closet, right, She wouldn't have thought to check

1066
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: there anyway. So he hides in the closet until the

1067
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: friends party and then leave and everybody goes to bed.

1068
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: He's in there for hours.

1069
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 2: Maybe, and then what happens, Well, then he kikes a

1070
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: little girl and she disappears for the next what several weeks?

1071
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: Weeks weeks, and I remember the Santa Anna wind came

1072
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: up and it made the search so much more difficult,

1073
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: and finally she was found. The neighbor, who I believe

1074
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: was an engineer, David Westerfield, who seemingly was a normal guy.

1075
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: Didn't he have grown children and he had a beautiful

1076
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: home in their neighborhood, big yard with a giant RV

1077
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: parked in the yard, and that is where the murder occurred.

1078
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: In the r V, no one would have ever suspected

1079
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,439
Speaker 1: David Westerfield.

1080
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 4: Oh, he wasn't a registered sex offender. He didn't frighten

1081
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 4: people because he looked normal. And I think that's what

1082
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 4: it's really important for people to understand. That's someone who

1083
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 4: wants to take your child may be your neighbor, or

1084
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 4: your best friend, or your cousin, or someone you know,

1085
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 4: or someone that looks like they belong And that's how

1086
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 4: these sophisticated offenders like Westerfield operate. Not only did he

1087
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 4: look like he belonged in the neighborhood, he did belong

1088
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 4: in the neighbor who was a neighbor. He was a neighbor,

1089
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 4: married neighbor, married neighbor with two kids and no criminal record.

1090
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 4: How do you crack Mary an egg.

1091
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: Neighbor, two children, no criminal record that they were grown

1092
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: though grown children, mananteens are grown Yeah, grown adult children.

1093
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: I will never forget that wanted post. I mean that

1094
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: search poster, that missing poster for Daniel van dam So

1095
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: our takeaway here neighbor not a sex registered sex predator upstanding,

1096
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: married with children. Now why it doesn't strike me? I mean,

1097
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: this is anecdotal, but I just you don't suspect a

1098
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: married man with children he's your next door neighbor to

1099
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: be the guy that sneaks in and hides in the

1100
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: closet and murders your child.

1101
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: You suspect Chester the molester. I mean, people have it

1102
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 2: in their minds that it's going to be some grony

1103
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 2: old dude as all of these characters we've talked about

1104
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: wearing a trench coat and hiding behind the bush, When

1105
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: the reality is is that the majority of these characters

1106
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 2: are individuals who who use their professional or volunteer activities

1107
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 2: to get into positions that give them unsupervised access to

1108
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: your children so that they can then get that access

1109
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 2: and start grooming your children and then have their way.

1110
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 2: And we hear about it all the time, whether they're past,

1111
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 2: whether they're scout leaders, whether they're involved in youth sports,

1112
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: they're just there. They seem normal. Nobody has any idea

1113
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 2: what's going on until the damage has been done, and

1114
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: that damage can be severe.

1115
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 4: No, and Nancy, I've prosecuted thousands of offenders, sex offenders.

1116
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 4: I've only prosecuted one Chester than the lester. His name

1117
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 4: was actually Chester, and he looked like Koy and some

1118
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 4: of these other offenders.

1119
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: But they are the exception.

1120
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 4: The rule in my experience is they look like Westerfield.

1121
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: What can I learn? What roleina?

1122
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 3: Well, you know, and you know Danielle lived in the

1123
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 3: neighborhood with this guy and now here he is in

1124
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 3: her bedroom. You can imagine how confused she was. Now

1125
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 3: we keep talking about locked doors, right, and even if

1126
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 3: they lock the door every night, and then you know,

1127
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 3: he finds another way in.

1128
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: Is there something to say about talking to.

1129
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 3: Your children about when they come in contact with some

1130
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,919
Speaker 3: of these people who do say don't scream or don't

1131
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 3: say anything.

1132
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 1: Is there a.

1133
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 3: Method or something to teach the child like you don't

1134
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 3: have to go and you don't worry about what they say,

1135
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 3: or some sort of formula to or something to arm

1136
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 3: your children with something like this happened.

1137
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 2: I believe the answer to that is yes, absolutely, And

1138
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 2: I think that parents have to have these conversations with

1139
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 2: children from an early age on and they have to

1140
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 2: be age appropriate. But I think the critical thing about

1141
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 2: these conversations is they can't be fair based conversations. They

1142
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 2: have to be learning experiences for the children. You have

1143
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 2: to tell the children that not everybody's a good person,

1144
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 2: that you don't obey all adults all the time, which

1145
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: I think is probably a commonality with all of these cases,

1146
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: that in fact, there are things that you can do

1147
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: that you don't want to leave with somebody. That if

1148
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 2: you're feeling your gut tells you something is wrong, then

1149
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: you have to act on that and you have to

1150
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 2: do something about it. But I think it's when you

1151
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 2: make it a fair based conversation that everything gets turned

1152
01:07:58,200 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 2: off that the kids don't want to listen to it,

1153
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 2: parents don't want to talk about it, and they lose

1154
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 2: the opportunity, and the result can be tragical.

1155
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 4: And that's what parents say, is they say, I don't

1156
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 4: want to frighten my child. That's why you don't have

1157
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 4: a conversation. That you don't make a big deal out

1158
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 4: of it. We need to have a conversation, let's sit

1159
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 4: down and talk instead. You make it part of everyday life.

1160
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 4: Every month or every couple of weeks, you talk about

1161
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 4: if someone makes you feel uncomfortable, you know you can

1162
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 4: tell mommy, right, we don't have any secrets right, and

1163
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 4: if someone does something you don't like, you can yell out.

1164
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 4: You should shout for help if you need help, and

1165
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 4: these conversations you have to have.

1166
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,480
Speaker 1: I like to say that kids.

1167
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 4: Are their own first best defense against victimization. I'm not

1168
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 4: blaming the child and putting responsibility on them at all,

1169
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 4: but you have to arm them.

1170
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: Coming home impaired and not checking the doors, the locks,

1171
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: the sliding glass door. I still don't quite understand how

1172
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: he could get in. I wonder if the dad was

1173
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: already asleep and all those hours pass and no one

1174
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: knows he's in the home. And the takeaway of a

1175
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: neighbor who seems to be normal and upstanding, who doesn't

1176
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: fit our stereotide of a sex offender, which leads me

1177
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 1: to Haley Cummings, a little girl in Satsuom of Florida

1178
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: who goes missing and to this day has never been found.

1179
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: Also concerning me, there is what went wrong and what

1180
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: can I learn from it?

1181
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 4: Right, So, like you said, Haley Cummings, it's a normal

1182
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 4: February night, she goes to bed. She's at home with

1183
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 4: her father's seventeen year old girlfriend who was living in

1184
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 4: the home at the time her father went to work.

1185
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 4: He worked the night shift as a crane operator. Miss

1186
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 4: d Croslin, the girlfriend. The seventeen year old girlfriend.

1187
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 3: Says she put the kids to bed at eight thirty

1188
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 3: at night, and she herself went to bed at ten.

1189
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 3: At some point in the middle of the night, she

1190
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 3: gets up to go to the bathroom, says she notices

1191
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 3: that a light is on in the kitchen and that

1192
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 3: the back door is propped open with a cinderblock. Goes

1193
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 3: back in the bedroom to see that Haley is gone.

1194
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 1: Right there, a seventeen year old in charge overnight to

1195
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: me problem overnight. On the other hand, working parents, parents

1196
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: that have to go out of town, you think you

1197
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: could leave the children with a babysitter. But in this case,

1198
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: she was, by her own words, dead to the world

1199
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: when the prop comes in to get Haley. Also, evidence

1200
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: has emerged since that time she had people over partying

1201
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: at the home while the dad was out working. The

1202
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: seventeen year old in charge of the children had people

1203
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: partying at the home the dad didn't know about. That's

1204
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: a big problem.

1205
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 3: That is a big problem, and she never initiated initially

1206
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 3: told the investigators that story. Of course, why would she

1207
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 3: but there were a few stories that started flying around

1208
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 3: about Misty and she she herself came up with a

1209
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 3: story a year later about her cousin coming to the

1210
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 3: door with her brother and they had a beef with

1211
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 3: her her boyfriend.

1212
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 4: Ronald you know, and that you know, they came to

1213
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 4: the house looking for him and looking for something he

1214
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 4: had of theirs, and then took Haley in the process.

1215
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 3: It seems unlikely, and none of these things have been

1216
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 3: really substantiated, because Nisty was the only one in the

1217
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 3: home when the crime took place.

1218
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: But what we do know is a strong likelihood that

1219
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: other people were allowed in the home while the father,

1220
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: the parent, the guardian was away. Correct, he had no

1221
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: knowledge of that.

1222
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 4: He had no knowledge.

1223
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: So that opens up a whole Pandora's box about who

1224
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: comes in your home with your knowledge or without it.

1225
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 1: That's my takeaway on Haley Cummings, which leads me to

1226
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 1: Samantha Runian. And the reason Samantha Runyan's kidnap and murder

1227
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: has stuck in my mind is because nobody did anything wrong.

1228
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: There was not an intruder, nobody left the door a lot,

1229
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: there wasn't a guest in the home that you didn't know.

1230
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 1: There wasn't a sex offender sixty five yards away that

1231
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:20,759
Speaker 1: you didn't find out about. The scene wasn't contaminated. Samantha Runyon,

1232
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: a five year old little girl was in the front yard.

1233
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: Her grandma had come in. I was at the kitchen window.

1234
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: I recalled there was another child playing in the front

1235
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: yard as well. She wasn't alone. And the perp, Alejandro Avola,

1236
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: drives up, gets her in the car, leaves. It's over.

1237
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,759
Speaker 1: It's over, Just like that. They were in the front

1238
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 1: yard alone. I think less than twenty minutes.

1239
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 3: They were playing in the front yard, and like you said,

1240
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 3: Avela rolls up and what does he say?

1241
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 4: I lost my puppy. He's drawing her in. She's five

1242
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 4: years old, and she gets close enough he snatches her up.

1243
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 4: She screamed and said tell my grandmother, but it was

1244
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 4: just too late. He sped off.

1245
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: Getting close to the car is a whole another can

1246
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 1: of worms, because what's the child is ten feet fifteen

1247
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: feet from the car. It's over. They're grabbed by the

1248
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: arm and yanked in the car and the car has

1249
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: gone at sixty mph. It's done. It don't deal the

1250
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: front yard right there in the front yard of the

1251
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: home with Grandma who'd been out in the front yard

1252
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: playing with them. She goes in, it happens.

1253
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: What can I do with that, Mark, Well, motify the police.

1254
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said earlier, right, and like you

1255
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: said earlier, it's sixty sixty miles an hour. I mean,

1256
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 2: that's how quickly they can get away. You notify law

1257
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 2: enforcement immediately, and they're going to be able to contain

1258
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 2: an area if they have a plan in place, that's

1259
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 2: what they're going to be able to do. What do

1260
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: they do. Don't leave your child outside alone, even for

1261
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 2: a minute, even for five minutes, even for a minute.

1262
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: And another thing I've thought about is not having a fence.

1263
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 1: You know, you go in neighborhoods and it may not

1264
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: be feasible for people to have a fence. But if

1265
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: there had been a fence with a gate, would that

1266
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 1: have stopped him? Maybe, but maybe not. You'd have to

1267
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: get over the fence, you have to do the gate,

1268
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: you have to wiggle with the child. It would have

1269
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: been one more barrier for a perp to scale.

1270
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 4: But like Mark said, the ultimate barrier is don't leave

1271
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 4: them outside if you have to go to the bathroom

1272
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 4: say I'm really sorry. I know you're playing. Just come

1273
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 4: in for a minute. I have to go. That's what

1274
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 4: I do with my daughter. They don't like it, but

1275
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 4: it's the safest thing to do. You close the door

1276
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 4: behind you and then when you're done, you go back

1277
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 4: out with your.

1278
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: Kids and you fancy.

1279
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 2: Her parents didn't have the power to build a fancy.

1280
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 2: They lived. They lived in a condo community. There's hoa

1281
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 2: rules and rescriptions.

1282
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: And they couldn't. It's it was not feasible for them

1283
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: to have a fence. They couldn't. Even if they had

1284
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: wanted to, it would have violated the U community agreement.

1285
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 1: They could not have done that. So, Britt, it's good

1286
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:08,879
Speaker 1: good in anything people can do to avoid the runion scenario.

1287
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 1: Semantha runion and in that case, Samantha was killed quickly.

1288
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: She was killed quickly. Let's back it up and think

1289
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 2: for a moment, if Samantha had had some kind of

1290
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 2: a GPS device on her, maybe something as simple as

1291
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 2: a cell phone, maybe one of the other devices that

1292
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 2: are so readily available now at Franks at a good cost.

1293
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 2: That you can army, that that you can ae that

1294
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 2: you can arm your children with and in the worst

1295
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,520
Speaker 2: case scenario, be able to be able to attract them.

1296
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 4: They better to hide it, though, because I'm sure criminals

1297
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 4: will get onto what that bracelet looks like.

1298
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 2: Yes, some do. Some.

1299
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 4: The Runion case, though, certainly makes an argument for having it,

1300
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 4: just like a case I prosecuted not fifteen miles from

1301
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 4: where we sit right now, Nancy, where someone just like

1302
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,879
Speaker 4: Samantha snatched a five year old girl in an apartment

1303
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 4: complex where she was played with a dozen other children,

1304
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 4: took her by car, and it didn't end well for anyone.

1305
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 4: The child did live in a particular case, but no chip.

1306
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 4: The parents called the police right away. They did everything

1307
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 4: they were supposed to do. They didn't do anything wrong

1308
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 4: except be inside their apartment where they could see the

1309
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 4: child instead of outside of the apartment where.

1310
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 5: They were closed.

1311
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: You know. A case that has also disturbed me is

1312
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,799
Speaker 1: a mom a beautiful nineteen month old little boy, Lincoln,

1313
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: so she thinks she's found her dream man. He's a dentist,

1314
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: a very successful dentist, and she's impressed by his education,

1315
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: by his money, by he treats her like a queen. Well,

1316
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 1: he killed the baby. He killed Lincoln and it's caught

1317
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: on camera on her nanny cam. Now how she didn't

1318
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:58,719
Speaker 1: know who he really was, a married father of several children,

1319
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 1: still married in a you know, several miles away, which

1320
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: was on Facebook. She didn't know she was in love.

1321
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: She's a working mom. She went through a lot giving

1322
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: birth to Lincoln. He had a lot of health issues,

1323
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: but he was coming through. He was at the end

1324
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: of the child and the light was there and he

1325
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 1: was getting well. The baby was on the floor.

1326
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 4: What happened, Well, the baby was on the floor and

1327
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 4: the mother was upstairs. So here the man you're talking about,

1328
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 4: this thirty five year old dentisis downstairs with Lincoln and

1329
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 4: you could see on the nanny cam his.

1330
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: Bert Lewis a Tulsa dentist. That's who he is.

1331
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 4: Bert Franklin.

1332
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Bert Franklin, a tuls A dentist, correct, who,

1333
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 3: like you said, was still married with four children.

1334
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: But we'll put that aside.

1335
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 3: So he goes into the living room, puts little Lincoln

1336
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 3: on the floor, gives him a bottle. Do you see

1337
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 3: a kicking motion, because you see the top of his body,

1338
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 3: you see a kicking motion. He comes back in with

1339
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 3: the baby in his arms, limp grabs a piece of pizza,

1340
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 3: walks back out, and then seemingly slams Lincoln's head into

1341
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 3: the floor. Now, the mom hears noises downstairs, calls down

1342
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,799
Speaker 3: to her wonderful boyfriend and he says, I was throwing

1343
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 3: a ball to the dog. She comes down the steps,

1344
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 3: she sees her baby laying on the couch with pillows

1345
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 3: around him, and the boyfriend says he's sleeping. Don't disturb him.

1346
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 4: So she says, okay, puts his pacifier on the arm

1347
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:31,600
Speaker 4: rest and walks.

1348
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: Away, and then he later died of massive internal entraes. Well.

1349
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 3: Yes, later that evening, two am, she hears her son,

1350
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 3: but she thinks he's coughing, is snoring heavily right, but

1351
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 3: when up once she wakes up and she realized it's

1352
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 3: more of a gurgling sound. Nancy so and then his

1353
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 3: eyes are wide open and she can and she's trying

1354
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 3: to give him a bottle and he's just not responsive.

1355
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 4: So she rushes him to the hospital. She talked to

1356
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 4: the doctors and they examined him and they said that

1357
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 4: he had suffered a severe injury to the head. So

1358
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 4: she starts racking her brain. She has no idea, she's

1359
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 4: not even thinking about her boyfriend.

1360
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 3: And she's like, well, maybe he fell down when he

1361
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 3: was at my aunt's house earlier, and I didn't know

1362
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 3: and they didn't know, you know. And then the doctor said,

1363
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 3: this is no ordinary injury. This is not something that

1364
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 3: someone would get from falling down.

1365
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: This is like a car crash that severity.

1366
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 3: Exactly later on, like you said, little Lincoln dies and

1367
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 3: the medical examiner comes back with cause of death as

1368
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 3: non accidental blunt force trauma to the head and the

1369
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 3: manner of death homicide, which led to eventually the surveillance

1370
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 3: video or the nanny cam.

1371
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: And where this lace, nay Marlena is the convergence of

1372
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: two major issues, who you bring in your home, who

1373
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:03,879
Speaker 1: you bring in your home, and the person that seems

1374
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: like a great guy like David Westerfield.

1375
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:11,720
Speaker 3: Well, can we just backtrack on that. Bert Franklin was

1376
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 3: a dentist. He was a professional. But he told Lincoln's

1377
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 3: mom that he was separated from the mom but just

1378
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 3: still living under the same roof as her, and they

1379
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 3: had four children together. They were together, they were boyfriend

1380
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 3: and girlfriend for one year and he's still living under

1381
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 3: the same roof with his wife who he's separated with.

1382
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 4: That's a red flag right there.

1383
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 1: That's a major red flag.

1384
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 4: Beyond a red flag. Well, he's a scumbag, but that

1385
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 4: wouldn't necessarily tell the mother that he's a child killer.

1386
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 4: Well I wouldn't.

1387
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be involved with someone who was telling me

1388
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 3: this or a year and stayed living. You know, that's

1389
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 3: a red flag about who he might be as air person.

1390
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1391
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:52,719
Speaker 4: She might think, well, he's.

1392
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: Lying, a liar. And when you've got a guy lying

1393
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: about something so significant as their children and their own

1394
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: children and themselves, that's a major major problem bringing that

1395
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: person into the home and allowing them access to your child,

1396
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 1: access to.

1397
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 4: That's the problem is she should have never allowed someone

1398
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 4: of low character or of any character that she didn't

1399
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 4: know really really well along with her child.

1400
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 2: Or you say, Mark, Well, you said that could have

1401
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 2: been verified on Facebook, right they still he still had

1402
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 2: a Facebook page of him with photo zoom children and

1403
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: the kids.

1404
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and she, I mean she probably believed what she

1405
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,679
Speaker 4: wanted to believe. I mean, there is a thing called

1406
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 4: bed and board, you know, separations where you know people

1407
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 4: can't financially afford a second home and they get legal

1408
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,719
Speaker 4: paperwork to say that they're you know, separated but living

1409
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 4: under the same dwelling.

1410
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 3: They just you know, there's just parameters in there because

1411
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 3: they're not physically divorced or legally divorced. And she do

1412
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 3: master for that paperwork, but you know what, Mark, even

1413
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 3: if she did ask for that paperwork, that could be

1414
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 3: faked document easily.

1415
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 4: It's a piece of paper, you know she was.

1416
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:00,759
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a real issue with single mothers,

1417
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 2: are you know, single mothers of young children are an

1418
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 2: incredibly vulnerable category of individual and there was a point

1419
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 2: in time where there were no tools for these women

1420
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: that they had to basically take people on their word.

1421
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 2: But now there are tools. I mean, if you're in

1422
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 2: a situation like that, if you're like this, like Lincoln's mother,

1423
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 2: you can go on to Megan's Law and you can

1424
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 2: find out whether or not the individual that's in your

1425
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 2: home has any kind of a history. You can go

1426
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 2: on to Facebook and do some kind of a search

1427
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 2: on this individual and see exactly who he is and

1428
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: where he comes from. You can even go to law

1429
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 2: enforcement if you want and verify a criminal history that way.

1430
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 2: Those tools exist now it's not a fail safe. There's

1431
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 2: no question that children are going to continue to be victimized,

1432
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 2: but there are steps you can take to mitigate that

1433
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 2: victimization or the potential for that victimization.

1434
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 4: We know from cases child sex offenders hunt for women

1435
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 4: who are not married, who are single mothers, who have

1436
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 4: children of the age that they're sexually interested in, to

1437
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 4: date so that they can get access to the kids.

1438
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 5: And Mark's exactly right. There are tools out.

1439
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 4: There that you can run sort of your own kind

1440
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 4: of background check on someone, but ultimately, if someone has

1441
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 4: never been caught for a sex offense, you're not going

1442
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 4: to turn anything up. But that does not mean you

1443
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 4: should feel secure that the person you're dating isn't a

1444
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 4: sex offender. You have to take precautions against everyone who

1445
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 4: comes in your home. Bottom line.

1446
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:42,680
Speaker 1: I want to pause just for a moment, because we

1447
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 1: are extracting from these cases and they're not just stories,

1448
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:54,839
Speaker 1: they're not just headlines. These are real families, real children

1449
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: who are no longer with us. I want to think

1450
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 1: about them for a moment. Samantha Runyin, Danielle Van Dam,

1451
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: Jesse Lunsford, Dylan and Shasta Grownee, Lincoln Lewis, Haley Cummings

1452
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 1: and Polyclass. There's no end to this conversation. There's no

1453
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 1: end to what we can learn. I want to use

1454
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 1: that knowledge to arm others, so one innocent person can

1455
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: be kept safe, just one person. If we could save

1456
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: one child, it would be worth it to me. So

1457
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:52,559
Speaker 1: I want to thank you, Marlene, Francy and Mark. That

1458
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: was a lot of information on being safe at home?

1459
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: How can we boil it down? Can use it? Let's

1460
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 1: condense it. First of all, keep your home secure at

1461
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 1: all times. You never know when a predator or intruder

1462
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: may test to your security. First and obvious. Keep your

1463
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 1: doors locked at all times, including the door in and

1464
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 1: out of the garage. If you have a sliding glass door,

1465
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 1: get the bar that adds an extra layer of protection

1466
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: against intruders. Always sleep with windows closed and locked. Get

1467
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:38,679
Speaker 1: a security system. They don't have to be expensive. There

1468
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: are so many home alarm systems at different prices out

1469
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 1: there in the market. Set your alarm even when you're home.

1470
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 1: Remember you and your children are the most important things

1471
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 1: to protect. Make it second nature. Landscape with security in mind.

1472
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 1: Plant bushes outside the windows, like holly that grows thick

1473
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: and prickly to make it hard for an intruder to

1474
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: enter your home, and clear away potential hiding spots for

1475
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: criminals like bushes, planters, anywhere an intruder could hide in

1476
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,759
Speaker 1: your yard. If you can put a fence around your yard,

1477
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 1: it's one more barrier that they have to overcome. Put

1478
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 1: up security cameras, even if they're fake, they will discourage criminals.

1479
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: Get a security system that beeps when someone opens or

1480
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: closes a door at your home. Your home must appear

1481
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,719
Speaker 1: occupied at all times. Leave all lights or the radio

1482
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 1: when you're not there. Install outdoor lighting on a timer

1483
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: or motion sensitive. Do not lead a key under the

1484
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: mat or under a planter. They know that. Find a

1485
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 1: different place and don't blab about it. Ask any service

1486
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 1: people for credentials before they come into your home. If

1487
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 1: a service person is coming to your home, whether it's

1488
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 1: the cable guy, the phone guy, the repairman, that should

1489
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: have been by appointment, they never just show up. You

1490
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 1: can barely get an appointment, so you should know when

1491
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 1: someone's coming to your home ahead of time. If you

1492
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 1: can hire a house sitter if you're away from home

1493
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,640
Speaker 1: for an extended period of time, or if your absence

1494
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 1: has unwillingly been publicized, even on social media. Turn the

1495
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 1: volume down on your phone or even take it off

1496
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: the hook, and a phone that's constantly ringing is assigned

1497
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 1: to intruders that nobody's home. Do not let your newspapers

1498
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 1: pie up. It's so easy to make a phone call

1499
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: or even online to stop delivery for a period of time.

1500
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: Do not put it out there on social media you're

1501
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: going on vacation. That's like waving a red flag or

1502
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:22,480
Speaker 1: ringing a red bell of alarm. Hello, I'm gone burglarize

1503
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 1: my home. Let's talk about your neighborhood. You need to

1504
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 1: know the risks in your area around your home. You

1505
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 1: must check the National Sex Offender Registry and know if

1506
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: you have neighbors on that list. Don't take that as

1507
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 1: the final word. Because sex crimes, especially on children, are

1508
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 1: mostly underreported. That's why you need to proactively secure your home.

1509
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,080
Speaker 1: Before you bring somebody into your home, run a background check,

1510
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 1: just like you. What a caregiver who will be with

1511
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: your chill. I'm talking about piano teachers, tutors, everybody who

1512
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 1: walks through that front door. Be careful about how much

1513
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 1: exposure your child has to non parents and the home.

1514
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 1: Remember Hally Cummings. Someone who wants to take your child

1515
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 1: could be your neighbor, your married neighbor, or even a relative.

1516
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: They won't look like Chester the molester. They could use

1517
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: their position or their authority to be in a place

1518
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: of power over your child. Don't ever leave your child

1519
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 1: outside alone. It's so tempting. Don't do it. And here

1520
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 1: are tips that I don't want to even think about.

1521
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: But we have to be prepared for the world. First,

1522
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Keep

1523
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 1: a complete and current written description of your child in

1524
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 1: handwriting and on your phone. Take color photos digital if possible,

1525
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 1: of your child every six months or more often. If

1526
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 1: your child appearance is changing. Know where your child's medical

1527
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 1: and dental records are located and how you can obtain them.

1528
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: Contact local law enforcement. See if they offer fingerprinting for children.

1529
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: I did it. If they do, arrange to have the

1530
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: agency to fingerprint your child. Get a DNA sample from

1531
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: your child. If you can arm your child with a

1532
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: GPS enabled device, think something like a smart watch, consider

1533
01:30:56,439 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 1: a cell phone. Now, what if your child goes missing

1534
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:05,840
Speaker 1: from home? Search your home thoroughly. I'm talking about closets,

1535
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 1: piles of laundry, the dryer, the basement, the storage room,

1536
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:16,280
Speaker 1: in your cars, under your cars, in and under beds,

1537
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 1: inside large appliances, anywhere a child could crawl or hide.

1538
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: Contact every law enforcement agency you can think of, and

1539
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: don't rely on one to talk to the other. Immediately

1540
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 1: call the news desk, the media assignment desk, and let

1541
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 1: them know you're available on behalf of your child. Call

1542
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:45,080
Speaker 1: the FBI. Very often, smaller local jurisdictions haven't handled a

1543
01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:48,840
Speaker 1: lot of child abductions, and that is why you must call.

1544
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:54,799
Speaker 1: You must call the FBI. Take to social media. Create

1545
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 1: a missing child page on Facebook, upload photos, share updates,

1546
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 1: keep people in aged. It costs you nothing and takes

1547
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:09,639
Speaker 1: very little time, and the rewards are immeasurable. After you

1548
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 1: report your child missing to the law, call the National

1549
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:17,200
Speaker 1: Center for Missing Unexploited Children at one eight hundred the

1550
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: Lost one eight hundred eighty four, three, five, six, seven eight.

1551
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: When you call police, provide them with your child's name,

1552
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:31,440
Speaker 1: date of birth, hike wait, description of any unique identifiers

1553
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: such as eyeglasses or braces, or birthmark, freckles, anything. Tell

1554
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 1: them when you notice your child for is missing, What

1555
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:45,440
Speaker 1: clothing your child was wearing and ask them to immediately

1556
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: enter your child's name and identifying information into the FBI's

1557
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:55,800
Speaker 1: National Crime Information Center Missing Person file. What to tell

1558
01:32:55,840 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: your child These conversations must be early, and they cannot

1559
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:03,680
Speaker 1: be fear based. But you have to tell them not

1560
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 1: everyone is a nice person, or to listen to every

1561
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 1: adult that's crazy. And make this a part of every

1562
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:16,720
Speaker 1: day life. I ask my twins all the time. Has

1563
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 1: anybody grabbed you? Has anybody touched your chest or your

1564
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 1: rear end or anything else? Has anybody beside me tried

1565
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: to give you a bath? I'd say it in a

1566
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 1: lighthearted way, but the message is clear, and I ask

1567
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 1: it several times. I looked at them in the eye

1568
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:43,680
Speaker 1: and ask them. I've even asked about their babysitters. What

1569
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: about miss Michelle? What about mister Chris? I ask, and

1570
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 1: I emphasize, Mommy won't be mad, just mommy wants you

1571
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: to be safe. That's not okay. Make this a part

1572
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 1: of everyday life. Reinforced to them it's okay to tell

1573
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 1: you and do it on a regular basis, so it's

1574
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 1: not scary. Children. Kids are their own best defense. You've

1575
01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:15,680
Speaker 1: got to teach them to look both ways when they

1576
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: cross the street, and about other dangers. I know you

1577
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:23,439
Speaker 1: may not want to talk about it with your children

1578
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 1: because I don't like it either, But you know what,

1579
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:33,680
Speaker 1: I really don't like the thought of my child being mistreated, abused,

1580
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:40,599
Speaker 1: stolen from me, and I will do whatever I have

1581
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 1: to do to keep that from happening, won't you