Speaker 1: You're listening to in the Vets Office with doctor Josie Horchak.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to in the Vets Office. I am
Speaker 2: your host, doctor Josie, and this week we are joined
Speaker 2: by a very special guest, my friend Nicki Varva. She
Speaker 2: is an amazing dog trainer. She's been training for twelve
Speaker 2: years professionally and actually just this past December went out
Speaker 2: on her own and decided to open up her own
Speaker 2: training program here in Nashville. It's called Always Training Canine.
Speaker 2: Her bread and butter is behavior modification, but she really
Speaker 2: does it all. She can do doc diving, search and
Speaker 2: rescue and is really passionate about training service dogs for
Speaker 2: veterans with PTSD.
Speaker 1: So welcome Nicki. I'm so happy to have you. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. I'm excited to be here. You're welcome.
Speaker 2: And as always, this podcast is BYOD. So we have
Speaker 2: mister Sailor here, which is Nicky's dog. Tell us a
Speaker 2: little bit about Sailor.
Speaker 1: So, Saylor's about to be He's about to be two.
Speaker 1: He's a German Shorthaired poeinner and he is a dog
Speaker 1: that I got to be able to. He's like a
Speaker 1: demo dog. I can have him around any dogs that
Speaker 1: I bring into training, and he can bring them out
Speaker 1: of their show. He can also be a great distraction
Speaker 1: for them, So he's kind of a what I call
Speaker 1: my co pilot. That's amazing. Does he should be on payroll?
Speaker 1: You know, he gets to live their rent free, so
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's enough for him.
Speaker 2: It's gonna say, Sailor's so handsome. I was just telling
Speaker 2: Nicky we've had dogs take poops in the studio. My
Speaker 2: dog bit Bobby last season, and Sailor's sitting here like
Speaker 2: a perfect angel.
Speaker 1: So we had a long talk on the way. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, behave you're a trainer's dog, you know,
Speaker 1: don't embarrass me. The bar is very high, very high. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll jump right into our case of the week.
Speaker 2: We always talk about something that I've seen in practice.
Speaker 2: A lot of times owners don't really know what's going
Speaker 2: on behind the scenes and the trenches, as we say,
Speaker 2: and so the case for this week is a sad one,
Speaker 2: but I think it's important to talk about because we
Speaker 2: do see it from time to time. It was one
Speaker 2: of my owners called me and said, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I left a bag of veggie straws out on the counter,
Speaker 2: and he had three dogs, and one of them got
Speaker 2: up on the counter, got the bag of food, brought
Speaker 2: them down. He came home from whatever errand he was
Speaker 2: running and it was I think pretty gruesome. There was
Speaker 2: blood everywhere. Two of the dogs had ganged up on
Speaker 2: the smaller dog and beat them up pretty bad.
Speaker 1: Which it's a sad story.
Speaker 2: It's not a great case of the week, but I
Speaker 2: think it's an important one to talk about because so
Speaker 2: often we think about dogs fighting each other at the
Speaker 2: dog park or getting into altercations when they're on the leash.
Speaker 2: But I in practice, we'll see dogs that live together
Speaker 2: and that are siblings fight and.
Speaker 1: Hurt each other all the time.
Speaker 2: So I'm a big proponent of when you're leaving the house,
Speaker 2: putting them in a crate.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? One hundred percent? You
Speaker 1: know that, honestly, right there could just saved that fight.
Speaker 1: You never know. I told you this. Nobody can ever
Speaker 1: guarantee you what your dogs are gonna do when they're
Speaker 1: by themselves, whether it's a single dog or multiple dogs.
Speaker 1: The safest thing that you can do is just put
Speaker 1: them in a crate, right put them in a crate.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm at that. People say that's a
Speaker 1: band aid, but honestly, that could have saved a big
Speaker 1: fight or losing a dog. Yeah, and to that.
Speaker 2: Extent, yeah, and sadly we do see the big dog
Speaker 2: little dog. Are altercations where we do lose these dogs.
Speaker 2: I mean they can it can be a life or
Speaker 2: death situation. And I find that owners feel guilty about
Speaker 2: the crate, but it is so important. And I have
Speaker 2: found that dogs really like their crate.
Speaker 1: They do. They love it. We put a lot of
Speaker 1: human emotion on it, you know, they they call them
Speaker 1: a cage or I want my dog to just be
Speaker 1: a dog. Well, at the end of the day, they
Speaker 1: are a dog, and we can't expect them to live
Speaker 1: in a human life and be able to do the
Speaker 1: things that we expect them to do when at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, they're a dog. And so the
Speaker 1: crate honestly is a great way to put you know,
Speaker 1: your dog in a safe spot to where they do
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. It is like their own room. It's how
Speaker 1: we escape too. We like to go to our own
Speaker 1: rooms and kind of relax. That's a great place for
Speaker 1: your dog to go as well we Cody and I
Speaker 1: will refer to our dogs Create as their condo. Yes,
Speaker 1: they have their own little condo and they can just relax,
Speaker 1: they can take a breath, like they don't have to
Speaker 1: be on they don't have to be on alert. So
Speaker 1: I think it's important for them to be able to
Speaker 1: take a break, just like you and I absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, if you think about it, when dogs are
Speaker 1: they're active twenty four to seven, you know, so they
Speaker 1: honestly really enjoy being able to go into their crate
Speaker 1: and take a nap and turn off, you know. So
Speaker 1: it's great and again it's something that can really I
Speaker 1: tell people all the time to prevent things from happening.
Speaker 1: Your Create is your number one thing that can prevent
Speaker 1: things from happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right, Next up, we will dive into
Speaker 2: some of our listener calls.
Speaker 3: Hello, doctor Josie, your nephew, Hank is five months old.
Speaker 3: He's a Portuguese water dog and he started humping. My
Speaker 3: question is is this for sexual reasons or is there
Speaker 3: any other reasons why this would be happening and how
Speaker 3: can we minimize that?
Speaker 2: Okay, that was my brother in law, Tanner, who just
Speaker 2: got a puppy and I get this question all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do too.
Speaker 2: It as a trainer, oh absolutely, where dogs puppies a
Speaker 2: lot of times as they're maturing a little bit, and
Speaker 2: even adult dogs will hump. And whether they're neutered or
Speaker 2: in spade or not, or even a female dog, even
Speaker 2: a female dog, we will see humping. And it does not, necessarily,
Speaker 2: I would say, the majority of the time, does not
Speaker 2: equate to them being sexually aroused. More than not, I
Speaker 2: find that it is, and I would love to hear
Speaker 2: your opinion too. I find that it's they are excited
Speaker 2: and overstimulated and they're kind of displacing that anxiety and
Speaker 2: excitement and it turns into humping. But it's not hey,
Speaker 2: I'm want to have.
Speaker 1: Sex exactly, it is. It happens a lot when dogs
Speaker 1: are very overstimulated, so it's an outlet. So it's something
Speaker 1: that they can do. Now, some dogs will go into displacement,
Speaker 1: they get excited and maybe go right and pick up
Speaker 1: a ball because they're just trying to put their energy
Speaker 1: into something. And some dogs, of course just start humping.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Yes, at times it can be a dominant kind of thing,
Speaker 1: you know, where two dogs are sizing each other up,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a little bit. Normally it's it's
Speaker 1: always just overstimulation. Yeah, so, brother Tanner, no worries. Hank
Speaker 1: Is is good to go. He's probably just really happy
Speaker 1: to be alive, exactly. He's not attracted to you. We're good, Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right. Next up.
Speaker 4: Hi, My name is Anne.
Speaker 1: Then.
Speaker 4: I volunteer at a pet shelter in Delaware, and I
Speaker 4: had a question about dogs. We noticed one day all
Speaker 4: the dogs were going wild when one man approached. Now
Speaker 4: he's worked with these dogs before, but they were very,
Speaker 4: very agitated by him this time. And he happened to
Speaker 4: be wearing a bright orange almost a hunter orange shirt.
Speaker 4: Could this have been something that would have triggered the dogs?
Speaker 4: Is that common for them to be triggered by certain colors?
Speaker 2: I have two thoughts when I hear this, The first
Speaker 2: of which is dogs are pack animals. I think if
Speaker 2: maybe the other dogs had interactive with this person before,
Speaker 2: but I think if one starts barking, they can all
Speaker 2: sort of trigger each other and then spiral a bit.
Speaker 2: The other thought, and not to get too scientific, is
Speaker 2: that dogs only have two cones in their retinas. Humans
Speaker 2: have three, and so dogs can't really make out red
Speaker 2: or green colors. They can really only make out blues
Speaker 2: and yellows. And so I feel like orange kind of
Speaker 2: falls into that red category, and it can look like
Speaker 2: a very dark color to them. So it is very
Speaker 2: possible that a big man wearing that color of shirt
Speaker 2: could be causing them to be a little bit more
Speaker 2: fearful than usual.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And also so you got to think in
Speaker 1: a rescue is my thing would be do you have
Speaker 1: a new dog? Has the new dog? Is this the
Speaker 1: one that started the barking? Isn't it causes everybody to bark.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times when somebody says a dog
Speaker 1: or dogs have done something out of the norm, it's
Speaker 1: normally not out of the norm. You gotta think about
Speaker 1: what triggered it prior. You know, did the guy come
Speaker 1: through a different door, did you know? There's all kinds
Speaker 1: of different things you go into it, but definitely, you know,
Speaker 1: dogs again, I've seen dogs act differently when they've actually
Speaker 1: been able to see a color, you know, whether it
Speaker 1: be I'm gonna have a chair in the yard, that's
Speaker 1: it blue and now the dogs are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what is that? Yeah, mikes, because I've never been able
Speaker 1: to see it before. Yeah, I mean, so it does.
Speaker 1: You know, dogs definitely can you know, change to routine
Speaker 1: or something that's different in their life and act different
Speaker 1: to it. But definitely in a kennel situation, if one barks,
Speaker 1: they're all going to explode. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing that you just said that
Speaker 2: I think really rings true for me is routine. Dogs
Speaker 2: are such routine, natured creatures, and just like you said,
Speaker 2: of anything as different from the usual.
Speaker 1: I can really throw them off absolutely.
Speaker 2: All right, that was our last question of the day,
Speaker 2: But if you have any questions for me, feel free
Speaker 2: to click that link in the show notes and record
Speaker 2: any questions you have. Nothing is off limits, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2: All right, Nikki, I am so excited to learn a
Speaker 2: little bit more about you. You know, you don't hear
Speaker 2: every day about people being dog trainers. How did you
Speaker 2: find yourself on this path?
Speaker 1: This is a million dollar question. I have been asked
Speaker 1: as many times and I always just kind of laugh
Speaker 1: and be like, because I love dogs, But to actually
Speaker 1: know a little bit more about me, it goes deeper
Speaker 1: than that. So I've always struggled with anxiety. I had
Speaker 1: a reading learning disability, and just growing up, I was
Speaker 1: just one of those kids that just didn't know how
Speaker 1: to fit in. But I always grew up with a dog,
Speaker 1: and you know, I would rush on from school and
Speaker 1: be like, where's my dog, just because that's where I felt,
Speaker 1: you know that piece And growing up, you know, you
Speaker 1: always hear that you need to be a doctor, you
Speaker 1: need to be a lawyer. You know, you need to
Speaker 1: go to a four year college. So dog training is
Speaker 1: really not on your radar that you could do this
Speaker 1: as a career. So fast forward twenty fourteen, I moved
Speaker 1: to California to go to dog training school, and that
Speaker 1: is where I found peace. Dog training really saved my life.
Speaker 1: It brought me to where I was like, this is
Speaker 1: my purpose. And I think we all thrive to find
Speaker 1: our purpose in life, and that's where I found it.
Speaker 1: I really just you know, when I talk about anxiety
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, I think it's really hard for
Speaker 1: people to communicate how we are feeling. So growing up
Speaker 1: I never knew like how to communicate with somebody like
Speaker 1: how I was feeling. So look at dogs. They can't
Speaker 1: talk so they cannot express to their owners how I'm
Speaker 1: feeling this situation makes me feel uncomfortable or I'm scared
Speaker 1: of this situation. And so that is where really everything
Speaker 1: opened up to me, and I was like, I can
Speaker 1: be the voice for these dogs. Is I know exactly
Speaker 1: where they are. You know, they're nervous and they can't
Speaker 1: communicate to why. And so I just dove deep into
Speaker 1: it and was like, Okay, I'm going to be your voice.
Speaker 1: Like I get you, I totally get you. So now
Speaker 1: I'm going to be able to educate your owner to
Speaker 1: ways that you guys can actually communicate on a dog level.
Speaker 1: And again, so it's just really dog training, you know,
Speaker 1: saved my life. So I think, you know, we've talked
Speaker 1: about this a little bit. I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of the people in the animal field have a background
Speaker 1: where they felt, whether it was growing up or at
Speaker 1: some point in their life, it was challenging and they
Speaker 1: felt that really the only place of comfort.
Speaker 2: And unconditional love came from their animals. I know for me,
Speaker 2: like I grew up in a very tumultuous household, there
Speaker 2: was addiction and divorce, and my dog was like my
Speaker 2: one true outlet and so I think it's so true
Speaker 2: where it's like it just goes deeper than just loving dogs.
Speaker 2: It's like a it's a vocation. I would say, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean because dogs are true, they don't judge, they're
Speaker 1: happy to see us all the time, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think it's where people can really feel themselves, is
Speaker 1: around something that is just there to love you so pure.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: One thing you said, and I have never heard of this.
Speaker 2: What is dog training school like?
Speaker 1: So there's really not a dog training quote unquote school.
Speaker 1: You know they're in the US. There's not certifications. Anybody
Speaker 1: can literally wake up in the morning and say I'm
Speaker 1: a dog trainer. That's scary, very you know, very scary.
Speaker 1: And so when I went to California, there was a
Speaker 1: a business that actually where you could go and pay
Speaker 1: and start to learn, you know, about dog training. So
Speaker 1: I think anybody, before you are working with clients, you're
Speaker 1: a dog enthusiast. When you become a dog professional is
Speaker 1: when you've actually are working with clients, you know, and
Speaker 1: actually teaching people how to work their dogs. And so
Speaker 1: I went to where I could just have my hands
Speaker 1: on so many dogs because that's where it comes into
Speaker 1: is you can train your own dogs, absolutely, but until
Speaker 1: you've had your hands on so many breeds, so many temperaments,
Speaker 1: so many personalities and all that, then you really have
Speaker 1: cannot like you in your practice. But again it is
Speaker 1: very scary because you can have anybody. You can google
Speaker 1: dog training near me and there's hundreds and hundreds of
Speaker 1: you know, different companies from you know, the franchises or
Speaker 1: to somebody like me that is just you know, hey,
Speaker 1: I've been dog trainings for you know, twelve years. But
Speaker 1: it's all about too is when you're looking for a
Speaker 1: dog trainer, you know, red flags are where where your
Speaker 1: dog stays? If they won't show you where your dog
Speaker 1: is going to be living or proof, you know, show
Speaker 1: me what you've done with dogs, not your personal dog.
Speaker 1: Because anybody that trains dogs your dogs can look fancy.
Speaker 1: I can do all kinds of crazy things with Sailor,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be teaching
Speaker 1: that to somebody else's to somebody else's dogs. So I
Speaker 1: think again, when you are looking for a dog trainer,
Speaker 1: you really need to dive deep into your research. You know,
Speaker 1: talk to many people if you don't feel comfortable with them,
Speaker 1: from the get go, just with a conversation, then that
Speaker 1: trainer's probably not for you. But asking all kinds of questions,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Is it normal for clients to ask for like a
Speaker 2: reference or a testimonial, you know?
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you know, you can go on Google
Speaker 1: and you can find that. But I always tell people
Speaker 1: when I talk to them, is if you want references,
Speaker 1: I can give you. Yeah, I'll give you. I'll give
Speaker 1: you a whole bunch, you know what I mean. I'm
Speaker 1: very with my and if you follow me on Instagram,
Speaker 1: you can see that I'm very transparent with what I do.
Speaker 1: I'm very honest with what I do, so you can
Speaker 1: see that when your dog is with me, all of
Speaker 1: my Instagram stories are dedicated to that owner and that
Speaker 1: dog because I am training the owner in that moment.
Speaker 1: So you get to actually see your dog training through
Speaker 1: the process of the time that they're with me. So
Speaker 1: it's not like, hey, here's your dog, it's done. This
Speaker 1: is what I've done and this is what you have
Speaker 1: to do as well.
Speaker 2: I can speak from personal experience. Nicky and I met
Speaker 2: through Wags and Walks. What I talk about all the
Speaker 2: time on this podcast and one of my dogs. Oakly
Speaker 2: the big German shepherd. He is a wags and walks alum,
Speaker 2: and like so many other rescue dogs, he came to
Speaker 2: me a little bit more timid anxiety, yes, but just
Speaker 2: a little bit more timid. Then as he got more comfortable,
Speaker 2: he was like, Ooh, I'm gonna bark on the leash
Speaker 2: at other dogs and I'm gonna defend our house. And
Speaker 2: I was dealing with leash reactivity and so I was
Speaker 2: referred to you, and I can speak firsthand. It's just
Speaker 2: how amazing you are at what you do. And I
Speaker 2: also love your Instagram. That is so unique. I haven't
Speaker 2: seen many other people. I don't know if anyone's doing that.
Speaker 2: And for my husband and I was so cool to
Speaker 2: follow along because all day long you're posting videos of
Speaker 2: what you're doing. It helps us understand, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: what we need to be doing. And just like you said,
Speaker 2: I think that's a level of transparency that when your
Speaker 2: dog is going to board and live somewhere else, like
Speaker 2: you have to have that.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I mean even for my own dogs. I
Speaker 1: know I can imagine sending my dog somewhere for a
Speaker 1: long period of time and especially not getting updates and
Speaker 1: like are they okay or is that going on? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So it's great for the owners one, you know, because
Speaker 1: you guys can see your dogs thriving, having fun. But
Speaker 1: the reason why I do that is there is never
Speaker 1: enough time that I can have with you to give
Speaker 1: you all of my knowledge you know, on your dog,
Speaker 1: because every dog is different. So while your dog is
Speaker 1: with me, I tell people you are actually learning like
Speaker 1: you are supposed to be watching these Instagram stories because
Speaker 1: not only am I telling you what I'm doing, The
Speaker 1: key with dog training is telling you the why why
Speaker 1: am I doing this? Why is your dog acting that way?
Speaker 1: And what do you need to do? And also to
Speaker 1: you know I'm doing this, but why am I doing this?
Speaker 1: So then when it comes down to whenever the dog
Speaker 1: goes home graduation day, you guys have already been watching
Speaker 1: for the weeks that you know, I have your dog
Speaker 1: what's going on, so you have the knowledge, so then
Speaker 1: we can really jump into the hands on that matters.
Speaker 1: So you guys have that education while it's going. But
Speaker 1: also too, I think it's really cool to see your
Speaker 1: dog from day one, to see oh my god, my
Speaker 1: dog really can do that. I know it's amazing could
Speaker 1: do that. It's amazing. I still follow your stories.
Speaker 2: Oakley is now home and thriving and doing great, but
Speaker 2: I still follow the stories because I just love to
Speaker 2: see the transformation. Yes, it's unbelievable. You do such an
Speaker 2: amazing job. I can't say enough great things.
Speaker 1: What are would you say?
Speaker 2: The most common issues that you see are seeing dogs
Speaker 2: being brought in for training for.
Speaker 1: Separation anxiety, especially after COVID. Is gonna say, true, that
Speaker 1: was everybody, you know, I get it. All the shelters
Speaker 1: were empty, everybody was getting dogs, which is great, and
Speaker 1: then they were spending so much time with their dogs,
Speaker 1: and I think that's just a journal besides COVID that
Speaker 1: separate separation anxiety is probably the biggest, biggest thing. But
Speaker 1: also to separation anxiety leads into leash reactivity, leads into
Speaker 1: destruction behavior. So that is probably my number one thing
Speaker 1: is I can't leave my dog alone. They hate their create,
Speaker 1: They destroy my home, and sometimes even to owners are
Speaker 1: prisoners of their home.
Speaker 2: Yes, I see this all the time and practice people
Speaker 2: will come in and talk to me about it, and
Speaker 2: it's it is rampant, especially after COVID, and I think
Speaker 2: that's yes, the dogs are used to having us home,
Speaker 2: but also we were used to being home with our pets,
Speaker 2: and so I think as owners we are also much
Speaker 2: more hesitant to leave our animals versus before it was like,
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit more commonplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it teaches them. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of dogs can't stand on their own four pause. They
Speaker 1: just can't. So a lot of times I tell people
Speaker 1: that your dog doesn't know how to life without you,
Speaker 1: you know, and even too a lot of times too,
Speaker 1: they don't know how to life with you, meaning that
Speaker 1: you get up to go to the bathroom, here they come,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You just stand up and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, where are we going? And
Speaker 1: so they're constantly anxious because they're constantly worried about what
Speaker 1: you're going to do. And so we have to teach
Speaker 1: them actually how to life with us. And that's something
Speaker 1: about my training is it's not about obedience. Obedience is
Speaker 1: the easy part. Sit down, stay, that's honestly the easy part.
Speaker 1: But what I teach is how you live with your dog,
Speaker 1: and I teach your dog how to actually live with
Speaker 1: you to where obedience actually comes into play.
Speaker 2: What would you say The hardest issue you find to train.
Speaker 1: Is nothing to do with the dog. It is the owner.
Speaker 1: We are the problem. It's us, and it's something that
Speaker 1: you guys are the problem. And I tell all my
Speaker 1: clients this, you know, when they call, I will never
Speaker 1: judge you for anything that you've done with your dog,
Speaker 1: because you're doing the best that you can with the
Speaker 1: knowledge that you have. You're not dog trainers. You know,
Speaker 1: the fact that you reached out, I will I'm very
Speaker 1: proud of anybody that reaches out because you're trying.
Speaker 2: But it does take us a little bit of like
Speaker 2: vulnerability to be like, hey, even as a veterinarian, to
Speaker 2: be like, hey, I know everything there is to possibly
Speaker 2: know about animals, but I can't train my own dog,
Speaker 2: like I need help, right.
Speaker 1: And then a lot of times, you know, it is
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, well, I've had dogs
Speaker 1: my whole life, but then they get a dog that
Speaker 1: is different and they don't know what to do, you know,
Speaker 1: and then reaching out and again is I don't criticize.
Speaker 1: I don't go oh my god, you're they're to blame
Speaker 1: or anything like that. You know, I talk it through
Speaker 1: and I tell people this is this is what's going on.
Speaker 1: And again I'm talking for the dog of like, this
Speaker 1: is why your dog is acting like this. But the
Speaker 1: hardest part to change is change. That's for anybody with
Speaker 1: anything besides dog training. It's you know, somebody says, I
Speaker 1: want to get into shape, you know, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to go to the gym, you know, and all that,
Speaker 1: But it's just change and taking away human emotion. That
Speaker 1: restricting your dog from getting on the couch or on
Speaker 1: the bed is not gonna make your dog hate you,
Speaker 1: you know, it is actually going to just all this
Speaker 1: training and boundaries, boundaries I cannot express enough and structure
Speaker 1: is actually gonna make your dog love you even more.
Speaker 2: And it's so hard as an owner, I think, as
Speaker 2: a human, just that boundaries, whether it's with our family
Speaker 2: or our friends, yes, and then let alone our dogs
Speaker 2: we love more than anything. It just feels so impossible,
Speaker 2: But in the end it benefits you so much more
Speaker 2: than not.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, your dogs will little. I mean, I will
Speaker 1: love you more and you'll actually see what I love
Speaker 1: so much is when dogs come in, we're gonna say
Speaker 1: day three, day four, every dog takes a big sigh
Speaker 1: relief with me kind of like like you get thank God,
Speaker 1: you understand here's somebody that is I can talk to you,
Speaker 1: and it's understanding what's going on to where we can communicate.
Speaker 1: And then when they go home and they start working
Speaker 1: with owners, I feel like the owners then can take
Speaker 1: it sigh of relief too and be like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: now we find peace in our home because we all
Speaker 1: have that, like we have an understanding of rules, boundaries
Speaker 1: and structure, like symbiosis it is, you know, I get
Speaker 1: so many pictures of like, oh my god, my dog
Speaker 1: has never been this relaxed before. My dog doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: jump at the doorbell anymore, and you just kind of
Speaker 1: what happens again, owners become prisoners of their own home
Speaker 1: because they, instead of having their dogs learn how to
Speaker 1: live with them we do, owners will constantly do everything
Speaker 1: to appease their dog, like I can't stay long at
Speaker 1: dinner because I have to go let my dogs out
Speaker 1: kind of, and so they become prisoners. So then at
Speaker 1: the end of all this training and things, it really
Speaker 1: is something that where I can feel that owners are
Speaker 1: again they're living with their dogs in in a more
Speaker 1: peaceful environment.
Speaker 2: I know for me, it was really helpful just one
Speaker 2: thing that you preach is consistency and clear expectations and communication.
Speaker 2: And I think that it's nice to have someone guide
Speaker 2: you like, Okay, this is what you should be doing,
Speaker 2: this is why you should be doing it, and then
Speaker 2: just knowing that your dog isn't going to be cured
Speaker 2: like whatever they have like that, that is them. But
Speaker 2: it's on us to kind of follow through and stick
Speaker 2: with it. And it is a lot of work and
Speaker 2: we do have to set boundaries.
Speaker 1: But like I said, oh absolutely, and again kind of
Speaker 1: touching back on that finding a dog trainer. If anybody
Speaker 1: says I can cure your dog and I can fix
Speaker 1: your dog, run, Yeah, there is no fix. There's no
Speaker 1: cure because if you think about my you know, always
Speaker 1: training canines, you're literally for your dog's entire life. You're
Speaker 1: always training, you know, and it's just become something that
Speaker 1: it's again routine, like putting your dog on place when
Speaker 1: you're eating dinner. It becomes a lifestyle of you know,
Speaker 1: it's not just like I don't have a magic wand
Speaker 1: I can't you know, I don't go and go to
Speaker 1: dog your dog is cured and we'll love all dogs
Speaker 1: and you know, and we'll do all these things. So
Speaker 1: it does take consistency, but I layer that foundation to
Speaker 1: where you guys can go home and you have the
Speaker 1: tools and the knowledge to just thrive and take your
Speaker 1: dog even further. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: So when we were first introduced, Catherine from WAG she
Speaker 2: introduced us and she said, hey, I have this veterinarian.
Speaker 1: She has a wax alum and you were like, oh boy.
Speaker 2: And it made me laugh because there is I think
Speaker 2: some misconceptions or maybe it's not a misconception with trainers
Speaker 2: and veterinarians. And it's funny because you know, as vets,
Speaker 2: we work with animals all day long in a very
Speaker 2: different capacity than what you do. And so where do
Speaker 2: you think that like, what do you think that tension is?
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to speak for everybody, yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, but I do think where I'm going to
Speaker 1: speak personally, Yeah, is I have a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: I have clients to call me and you know, talked
Speaker 1: about their dogs with separation anxiety or behavioral issues and
Speaker 1: they tell me my dog is on a lump sum
Speaker 1: of trasdone or Elville or ace and all these things.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, so your dog is just
Speaker 1: sedated zombie zombie, right, and they're still having issues and
Speaker 1: you know. So at my point of course is, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't only know how much the client tells me
Speaker 1: that the vets, and so I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: why didn't you know? Why are they just throwing you
Speaker 1: on all this medicine like you needed to, you know,
Speaker 1: go to dog training, you know, you needed you know,
Speaker 1: a behavior is kind of a thing, and so I
Speaker 1: think that's where we kind of get this like, oh veterinarian. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And of course it goes deeper into you know, food
Speaker 1: or shots, and we could go on this long, you
Speaker 1: know kind of thing. But I think the main thing
Speaker 1: I get is I want to know behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: I know you probably I don't know how many clients,
Speaker 1: you know, clients you see in a day, and you
Speaker 1: only see that dog for twenty fifteen minutes maybe, and
Speaker 1: you get a brief you know, and probably not even
Speaker 1: the full story of why the dog has been acting like, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, and and again in that moment, yes again.
Speaker 1: Safety for a dog is my number one concern. So
Speaker 1: if the dog is breaking out of the crateon literally
Speaker 1: like you know, hurting, themselves. Sure, okay, give that dog
Speaker 1: some trisdone, But also to I want to know, do
Speaker 1: you guys recommend that these these dogs go to training.
Speaker 1: It's so hard.
Speaker 2: I think I can only speak for myself. I do
Speaker 2: you know, you know we see twenty five appointments a
Speaker 2: day on a busy day. Every fifteen minutes you're seeing
Speaker 2: an appointment, and I'm in there to focus on the
Speaker 2: medical side of things. So it's I'm doing my physical exam.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out why they're having diarrhea. I
Speaker 2: need to update them on their vaccines. And then oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, he's trying to kill Fluffy when we
Speaker 2: go on walks and I have two minutes left in
Speaker 2: my appointment, and so of course behavior modification is so
Speaker 2: so so important, but when the owners at their wits end,
Speaker 2: I do know, Like for me, I'm like, okay, well
Speaker 2: here's a little something to hopefully help at home. I
Speaker 2: will say, I think as veterinarians, it's so important for
Speaker 2: us to have a list of trainers that we do recommend.
Speaker 2: And that is something that I print out for every
Speaker 2: single one of my clients when they are having behavioral complaints.
Speaker 2: And so what I would say to owners and listeners
Speaker 2: out there is if you're having behavioral issues with your dog, yes,
Speaker 2: your veterinarian is a great resource, but they're probably not
Speaker 2: going to be the first person to go to. So
Speaker 2: I would ask them a do you have a trainer
Speaker 2: that you recommend. If they don't, then just like Nikki said,
Speaker 2: you can find them on the internet and just look
Speaker 2: for those prerequisites that we talked about. Where they're transparent,
Speaker 2: they have good referrals, they're showing you exactly where they're boarding.
Speaker 2: They're not having a ton of dogs all at once,
Speaker 2: because I agree, I mean, these it requires so much
Speaker 2: more than just a band aid, which a lot of
Speaker 2: times is what the medication is.
Speaker 1: Right right, So I think, you know, again they these
Speaker 1: dogs and they're like, oh, my dog has been them
Speaker 1: for six months, has been on a trousdone you know,
Speaker 1: and still breaking out, you know of crates and things
Speaker 1: like that. But again I understand, I do as you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not like, oh my god, these vets, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, but of course even two I've
Speaker 1: had dogs that I've trained go in that have to
Speaker 1: wear a muzzle, you know, because the dog just hates
Speaker 1: the vet. I'm sorry. The dog only sees the vet
Speaker 1: probably only sees you what once every six months? Yeah?
Speaker 1: If that? Yeah, yeah, And specifically I have a dog,
Speaker 1: it's my friend's dog named Baker. Hates the vet. He
Speaker 1: has to have a muzzle, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He'll express his antal lands, which I know is one
Speaker 1: of your favorite I've been there, but the vet would
Speaker 1: be like, your dog needs to see a behavior less
Speaker 1: or a trainer, and this dog has been through training tremendous.
Speaker 1: This dog is a great dog, just doesn't like the vet.
Speaker 1: And so at times I'm like really, And they'll even say,
Speaker 1: like has told you know, my friend like we should
Speaker 1: probably put him on trasidone and stuff. She's like, no,
Speaker 1: he's really just he's only bad at the vet. So
Speaker 1: a lot of times it's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: also to training doesn't fix everything. Again, I can't do
Speaker 1: my magic war and have the dog love to have
Speaker 1: a thermometer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, no, of course. And I hear what
Speaker 2: you're saying there, and that makes sense. I will say,
Speaker 2: I think in situational instances like that, it isn't a
Speaker 2: bad idea to give them a little something before their visit.
Speaker 1: Just to take the edge off. Absolutely it's less stressful
Speaker 1: for the pet.
Speaker 2: So by no means, I think trasidone absolutely has its
Speaker 2: place and can be more safe and less stressful for
Speaker 2: the animal and the veterinarian. But again it's not necessarily
Speaker 2: that like long term fix for behavioral issues.
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing is, you know, whenever
Speaker 1: I was told you were a vet, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is your thoughts on training tools? You know, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of times, you know, I do know
Speaker 1: that some vets, again I'm not speaking for all of them.
Speaker 1: Some vets you know, only recommend all positive training, and
Speaker 1: when it comes to serious behaviors, I'm sorry, a hot
Speaker 1: dog isn't gonna get to your dog to stop barking,
Speaker 1: you know, do the trick. So I think again, I
Speaker 1: really do wish, you know, if somebody were to say,
Speaker 1: what would be in your perfect world is that veterinarians
Speaker 1: and trainers work together. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're going to break the mold exactly, I know,
Speaker 2: all right, Yeah, I think there's a place, and I
Speaker 2: think I'm sure it happens all the time, but we
Speaker 2: probably all could be a little bit better at it,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: If you think about all the knowledge you have, the
Speaker 1: knowledge I have, how many dogs? I mean at our
Speaker 1: goal is you're trying to save dogs and make them
Speaker 1: feel better. I'm trying to save dogs and make them
Speaker 1: feel better. Why can't we jump on the bandwagon.
Speaker 2: Together and dude together, Absolutely, we're going to drive that bandwagon.
Speaker 1: What is your most favorite dog to train? Breed? Wise
Speaker 1: Wise has a good question.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a breed either. I guess
Speaker 2: it could be like a general.
Speaker 1: Just working dogs working I mean your cattle dogs, or
Speaker 1: you know, just any any working dog. To be honest,
Speaker 1: I mean to be if I was just being just
Speaker 1: completely honest, any dog. I love to train any dog
Speaker 1: because they're all different, you know what I mean? All different,
Speaker 1: and so every dog. Yes, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I have an end goal result. Every dog brings to
Speaker 1: me something different and I learn from every dog. Now,
Speaker 1: I think the question probably was which dogs do I
Speaker 1: not like to train? Yeah? Which ones do you not
Speaker 1: like to train? To be honest is this is probably
Speaker 1: gonna make people laugh shit suos. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Morgan, our producer is laughing right now because she has
Speaker 2: a shit suh.
Speaker 1: These dogs don't want to do anything. You know, you
Speaker 1: could put a mortgage board of reads. They don't care steak,
Speaker 1: and you could say sit, and that dog is going
Speaker 1: to huff and roll its size and look the opposite way.
Speaker 2: You're Actually, it's so funny you say that. And sorry, Morgan,
Speaker 2: not to throw your shit, Toder.
Speaker 1: I still love training them. Just air them, just pick
Speaker 1: them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. They're like little gremlins. I do love them.
Speaker 2: They're so cute. But you're right, like our German chupherds
Speaker 2: and our pointers in our labs, they're like, we want
Speaker 2: to make you happy, We'll do whatever you say. And
Speaker 2: the little lap dogs are a little bit more like, eah,
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I always like the dogs with attitude.
Speaker 1: Those are my dogs. Chihuaala's ye give me a good Chiuala.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to train all day.
Speaker 2: A whole year, preach into the choir. Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: rapid fire some breeds at you. Okay, I'd like you
Speaker 2: to like say the first two to three words that
Speaker 2: come to mind. And I want to preface this by
Speaker 2: saying that we love all breeds. This is not to
Speaker 2: stereotype them, but these are the most common breeds that
Speaker 2: I see in practice. I'm sure you do too, and
Speaker 2: I just like, I think it'd be funny to see
Speaker 2: what the first couple words that come to mind are.
Speaker 1: Okay, hopefully we can anything out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no cussing, okay, number one French bulldogs.
Speaker 1: One Golden Retrievers. Good old boy, good old boy.
Speaker 2: Aren't they just the good as the boys pass as
Speaker 2: golden doodles?
Speaker 1: Oh? The dudes? The dudes mm hmm, high strung. Maybe
Speaker 1: to be honest, they doodles. To be honest, I do.
Speaker 1: I train a lot of doodles, great dogs. They just
Speaker 1: need training, you know. But I think this is a
Speaker 1: lot of time soon we talk about dog breeds. It's
Speaker 1: not the breed, it's how somebody has the breed. So
Speaker 1: doodles are known to be your I don't have kids,
Speaker 1: and this is my first baby, and these dogs come
Speaker 1: in spoiled, rotten. That's what a doodle is. Those are
Speaker 1: two words I like that touaas love them, perfect, love them.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I was speaking for you. Wag sends me,
Speaker 1: you know, all their feisty chihuahuas, and I'm surprised I
Speaker 1: have not foster failed yet, not yet. Pit bull sweethearts.
Speaker 1: Australian Shepherds feisty, spicy like that. Standard poodles intelligent. If
Speaker 1: anybody were to ask me again, if you were like, hey,
Speaker 1: what kind of breed would you recommend to people, Toy
Speaker 1: poodles or standard poodles are probably your perfect I agree,
Speaker 1: perfect dog for anybody to have. A lot of times
Speaker 1: people pass them because of the looks. But anytime I've
Speaker 1: trained any kind of poodle, they've never had any issues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they as a vet like coming into the clinic.
Speaker 2: They are perfect gentlemen or ladies. They just stand there perfectly,
Speaker 2: and they're so smart. Yes, I love them. Corky's Fighters,
Speaker 2: they are biers. People love Corgies because they're so cute,
Speaker 2: and those little butts are so cute that they.
Speaker 1: Bite and they bite. They're like rattlesnakes.
Speaker 2: They are cavalier. King Charles Spaniel.
Speaker 1: Perfect dog dog. If you're looking for you live in
Speaker 1: an apartment, or you are retired and you're looking for
Speaker 1: that that you just a lap dog, choking.
Speaker 2: Cat, cavies, boxers, goofballs.
Speaker 1: I've never been able to see a dog touch its
Speaker 1: nose to its tail in so many different directions, and
Speaker 1: our goofy and just that face. I love them. They
Speaker 1: are goofy miniature Schnauzer. I loveuers. They're one of the
Speaker 1: most underrated breeds for me. Yeah, I have just Am.
Speaker 1: I'm actually training one right now to be an alert
Speaker 1: sound alert service dog for a veteran and he is
Speaker 1: a standard Snauzer and just and he's great. Great, They're
Speaker 1: awesome great Danes.
Speaker 2: They don't live long enough. I know that wasn't two words.
Speaker 2: They don't live long enough. And I'd say scaredy cats,
Speaker 2: gentle giant. They're like the elephant that's scared of the
Speaker 2: mountain lap dog. Yes, I had a great Dan and
Speaker 2: she definitely did not live long enough. I would have
Speaker 2: loved her to live forever, but she was scared of
Speaker 2: her own shadow. Yeah, the best. All right, that was
Speaker 2: so fun. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll
Speaker 2: be right back with Pallen Order. All right, this week
Speaker 2: on Paw and Order, the first thing on my list
Speaker 2: is I would not train my dog to use bells
Speaker 2: or chimes to go outside when they have to go potty. Nicky,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can speak to this, but I have
Speaker 2: found that they abuse the bells and chimes, and.
Speaker 1: They're just like, give me attention. They use an abuse.
Speaker 1: They may just want to go outside and stretch, or
Speaker 1: they just want it to get your attention. And then
Speaker 1: a lot of clients I have still have accidents. They
Speaker 1: may rang the bell twenty five times a day and
Speaker 1: stuck off to go to the bathroom. It just becomes
Speaker 1: kind of a toy, you know, to get your attention. Structure, schedule.
Speaker 1: I when people ask me about potty training, it's my
Speaker 1: potty training is I let my dogs know and they
Speaker 1: need to go to the bathroom. It's a schedule, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when they're puppies, I think people think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: this is great, like they're telling me when they have
Speaker 2: to go, But when their puppies like, just no, they
Speaker 2: have to go all the time. So every thirty seconds,
Speaker 2: every ten seconds, you're taking them out, when they eat,
Speaker 2: when they drink, when they wake up from a nap,
Speaker 2: after they're done playing that you just need to preemptively
Speaker 2: take them outside, and them ringing bells is just teaching
Speaker 2: them bad behaviors. I think Nikki used the word it
Speaker 2: turns them into little narcissists, which I thought was very funny.
Speaker 1: It does you know it's funny? I mean because they will.
Speaker 1: They'll also ring the bells when you're on a zoom
Speaker 1: when you're eating dinner, They're just like, hey, I want attention,
Speaker 1: I want out, And most of the time they don't
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got you wrapp around their little paul absolutely
Speaker 2: all right. Number two, I would not put my dog
Speaker 2: that is already pulling me into a harness.
Speaker 1: Oh why not?
Speaker 2: You probably do you? Is there any dog you would
Speaker 2: put in a harness?
Speaker 1: Elderly? Okay? So I have a fifteen year old Border
Speaker 1: Collie Charlie Brown that if I needed to take her somewhere,
Speaker 1: you know, the harness does work because she does stumble,
Speaker 1: you know, and kind of fall. It kind of helps
Speaker 1: give support. But harnesses, yes, the only time I would
Speaker 1: recommend them is for puppies. When you first get a puppy,
Speaker 1: I don't want anything around their neck because you have
Speaker 1: to teach them how to use that call or how
Speaker 1: to have leash pressure. So on puppies. All of my
Speaker 1: puppies they come home and they're on a harness because
Speaker 1: then you can sit on your puppy, which means they
Speaker 1: are on a leash and they're in that harness twenty
Speaker 1: four to seven, so you're giving them you know, they're
Speaker 1: with you, so they don't have free access to the house.
Speaker 1: But harnesses for puppies one hundred percent until you get
Speaker 1: into that training stage, which would be about like four
Speaker 1: months old.
Speaker 2: I agree with that too, and not even coming from
Speaker 2: a training background, but more of a medical background.
Speaker 1: They're tiny little necks.
Speaker 2: They're just so fragile, and I've seen dogs really get
Speaker 2: hurt with the leash and the collar around their neck.
Speaker 1: So harnesses for sure with puppies. Absolutely, harnesses is just
Speaker 1: a great thing to get them used to it. And
Speaker 1: then harness is to for dogs. Now I'm a big
Speaker 1: advocate on riding traveling with your dogs and crates in
Speaker 1: the car, but if you can't, that seat belt harness
Speaker 1: because it keeps them from flying around in the car.
Speaker 1: So that kind of thing. But if you are wanting
Speaker 1: your dog not to pull, do not put a harness
Speaker 1: on them. That's what harnesses are for. They are used
Speaker 1: to you know, pull sleds or you know things like
Speaker 1: that that harnesses are for that. So don't put your
Speaker 1: dog on a harness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just setting yourself up to like water ski
Speaker 2: behind your dog. Yes, you're just sled dog and it
Speaker 2: is what I call it, literally sled dogging it all right.
Speaker 2: Number three, I would not free feed. This means leaving
Speaker 2: out food all day long for your pets to graze.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to have structured feeding times. One,
Speaker 2: if you are potty training, that makes it really difficult.
Speaker 2: You've got food and water going in one end and
Speaker 2: then coming out the other end. Willy nilly, you just
Speaker 2: don't know exactly. And then be you can really create
Speaker 2: a monster, you can.
Speaker 1: You know, it's sad. I'm sorry. You see this a
Speaker 1: lot of obese beast dogs. It's easy to put on
Speaker 1: the weight, it's hard to take it off right. But
Speaker 1: then also too is you are missing a phenomenal training
Speaker 1: opportunity with your dog. Now, I don't care if it's
Speaker 1: in a bowl, but feed that dog from your hand.
Speaker 1: Get your dog to sit, to place, to down, to come,
Speaker 1: just working on that engagement because your dog, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a resource. You know, I want my dog to
Speaker 1: understand that food play affection comes from me. And again
Speaker 1: you're missing that huge opportunity you know, for just reefeeding.
Speaker 1: But Also, I see so many dogs, especially doodles, picky eaters. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're very picky. They will cover. They will come to
Speaker 1: me in training with three to go bags with if
Speaker 1: my dog doesn't eat this, put this on it, and
Speaker 1: if it doesn't eat that, then you're gonna need to
Speaker 1: put this on it. And I'm like no, because that
Speaker 1: all that does is teach our dogs that the longer
Speaker 1: I wait, the better things that come.
Speaker 2: Yes, they know they'll wait, and they'll be like, if
Speaker 2: I wait a whole two hours, I get cheese. If
Speaker 2: I wait five hours, I get filet mignon. Yes, If
Speaker 2: I wait twenty four, I'm getting wagoo beef.
Speaker 1: Yes exactly. And I'm getting it hand fed to me
Speaker 1: with a four on a silver platter, Yes exactly. So
Speaker 1: it's just you know, I that is a big struggle
Speaker 1: with people, is you know, if the feeding is my
Speaker 1: dog is a picky eater, you're making your dog a
Speaker 1: picky eater. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think so much we project on our pets, and
Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is if they're hungry, they
Speaker 2: will eat. So I really recommend two feedings a day,
Speaker 2: unless otherwise directed.
Speaker 1: By your vet.
Speaker 2: If they're a puppy, that may be an exception, but
Speaker 2: morning and night, lay that food bowl down, give them
Speaker 2: ample amount of time to eat.
Speaker 1: My dogs get about fifteen to twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: If they don't finish their meal or they don't eat it,
Speaker 2: we pick it up and wait till the next feeding time.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, because I believe you know you can quote
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. As a veterinarian, I don't think
Speaker 1: dogs will starve themselves.
Speaker 2: It would be highly unlikely. I haven't encountered one yet, right, right,
Speaker 2: I haven't met many. All right, awesome, Well, today's episode
Speaker 2: was great. I really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. It was a blast.
Speaker 2: You're so welcome, And for all the listeners out there,
Speaker 2: please rate, review, subscribe. You can click the link of
Speaker 2: the show notes to leave us any questions that you
Speaker 2: have and we'll see you next week. L