WEBVTT - What Makes ‘Bitcoin Jesus’ Roger Ver Tick?

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg ihod podcast, And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing Editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday for one. I'm Weldonna Hyrick in today for

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<v Speaker 1>Stacy Marie Ishmael. Bitcoin evangelist Roger Ver has said in

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<v Speaker 1>at least one interview that when he was a little boy,

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted to be a garbage truck driver. That way

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<v Speaker 1>he could drive a heavy machinery around his neighborhood and

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<v Speaker 1>get to talk to everyone. Fast forward to the recent past,

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<v Speaker 1>and Roger Ver actually does talk to a lot of folks,

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<v Speaker 1>just though while collecting their trash. He's instead been promoting

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin as the future of money and finance, so much

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<v Speaker 1>so that people started calling him Bitcoin Jesus. According to

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<v Speaker 1>his website, he's one of the early investors in several

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin projects, including Cracking, Blockchain, dot Com, and Ripple, but

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<v Speaker 1>in verse, which his enthusiasm away from Bitcoin and more

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<v Speaker 1>towards something called bitcoin cash, which is an offshoot of

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<v Speaker 1>the original cryptocurrency. Recently, Vera became entangled with crypto company Genesis.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happens when Bitcoin Jesus speaks. Do people say

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<v Speaker 1>hallelujah or do they say deliver us from evil? Here

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<v Speaker 1>to help me explore the life and work of Bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus is Bloomberg reporter Olga Karif. Olga, You've actually had

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of access to Roger. You've interviewed him many times,

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<v Speaker 1>You've known him over the years, You've talked to quite

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<v Speaker 1>a bit. So just lay out the scene for us.

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<v Speaker 1>What is he like? What should we know about his personality?

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<v Speaker 1>And about this person he's known as bitcoin Jesus because

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<v Speaker 1>he actually found out about bitcoin way before most people

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<v Speaker 1>even heard the word. He started buying bitcoin in Tleven

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<v Speaker 1>when it traded for less than one dollar, and of

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<v Speaker 1>course now it's trading over for over twenty one dollars um.

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<v Speaker 1>And when he found out about bitcoin, he started telling

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<v Speaker 1>everybody about it. So there are stories so Fragier were

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<v Speaker 1>essentially carry know about bitcoin at barbecues and house parties

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<v Speaker 1>and pretty much he was talking about it everywhere he

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<v Speaker 1>could get a chance to, and so he became known

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<v Speaker 1>worldwide as Bitcoin Jesus. Maybe tell us a bit about

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<v Speaker 1>his escapades within the space, because I'm curious about how

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<v Speaker 1>he's been able to sustain this very interesting persona for

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<v Speaker 1>the last decade or more. He is sort of very intense.

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<v Speaker 1>He has very strong opinions about things. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things he's best known for is the creation of

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin cash. So back in the word, debates and oin

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<v Speaker 1>developers about how to scale bitcoin, and there were different

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<v Speaker 1>ideas about how to scale the network, and Roger was

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<v Speaker 1>a big believer that the main stream view of how

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<v Speaker 1>to scale the network was wrong and didn't adhere to

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<v Speaker 1>the vision that's the Toshiakamoto, the anonamous creator of bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>had in mind, because the Toshi wanted bitcoin to be

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<v Speaker 1>a transactional currency, and Roger felt like if this mainstream

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<v Speaker 1>idea of what bitcoin should become was implemented, and it

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<v Speaker 1>would become more of a store of value, which is

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<v Speaker 1>what bitcoin is today. And so he was part of

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<v Speaker 1>a contingent that supported split off a version of bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>network called bitcoin cash, and of course bitcoin cash is

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<v Speaker 1>still around, although it's a much smaller network than Bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Bitcoin has a market cap currently of I

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<v Speaker 1>think something like four hundred fifty billion and bitcoin cash

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<v Speaker 1>is two and a half billion. But you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a sizeable and an important cryptocurrency out there that he supports.

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<v Speaker 1>So basically he has in the past laid out some

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<v Speaker 1>views that maybe we're counter to what people at the

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<v Speaker 1>time we're thinking, or maybe he was sort of being

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<v Speaker 1>provocative in in some sense. But I'm wondering what what

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<v Speaker 1>the sense is from you of how the crypto community

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<v Speaker 1>views him, largely speaking, because obviously the name Bitcoin Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>or the nickname Bitcoin Jesus sort of has this connotation,

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<v Speaker 1>this larger than life kind of tation to it. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>it certainly does. So years ago, he was probably an

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<v Speaker 1>example of sort of the mainstream bitcoin adopter who was

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who was libertarian, opposed to government interference, somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>essentially viewed cryptocurrency as a way to avoid government interference

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<v Speaker 1>and regulation, you know, cryptocurrency as a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>early adopters, so it was a way to essentially move

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<v Speaker 1>value around without government knowledge or regulation, which as we

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<v Speaker 1>more recently, I think our scene is not quite how

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's working out. But um more recently I think

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<v Speaker 1>his views have been viewed as more fringe as more

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<v Speaker 1>institutions and retail investors had waited into the space. But

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<v Speaker 1>he's obviously still a very well known figure in the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto space. I like your use of the word fringe

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<v Speaker 1>and just to explain how maybe the space has evolved

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<v Speaker 1>since those early early years. But tell us maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>bit more of how characteristic or how exemplary his libertarian

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<v Speaker 1>or anti government views are maybe of of other participants

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<v Speaker 1>who had gotten in a really really long time ago,

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<v Speaker 1>or even how prevalent views like that might still be

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<v Speaker 1>in the space today. Or is is it really the

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<v Speaker 1>case that this type of thinking has just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>been sidelined within the crypto space over the years. Roger's views,

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<v Speaker 1>I think partially stemmed from the fact that when he

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<v Speaker 1>was in his early turnies, he was convicted of illegally

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<v Speaker 1>selling fireworks on eBay and he was actually put in

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<v Speaker 1>jail and has a very dark view of US government.

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<v Speaker 1>He actually after that he moved to Japan and and

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<v Speaker 1>then to send this send kids. But a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>early bitcoin adopters were people who essentially felt that crypto

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<v Speaker 1>was a way to financial freedom and allowed people to

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<v Speaker 1>not depend on governments that might devalue your feat or

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<v Speaker 1>do something something that could have ramifications for your savings

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<v Speaker 1>or for your way of life. And how this industry

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<v Speaker 1>evolved was, you know, in the last three years maybe

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<v Speaker 1>or so, more institutions actually from Wall Street started paying

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<v Speaker 1>attention to crypto and stepping in and offering services or investing.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen a few sort of public companies invest in bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've seen millions of retail investors step into crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>and the space, like you said, has changed quite a

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<v Speaker 1>bit from being sort of this very niche space with

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<v Speaker 1>mostly you know, very geeky computer programmersh loving coins too.

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say completely mainstream, but close to mainstream market.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, this whole space had been in a bear

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<v Speaker 1>market for the last year or so, and that definitely

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<v Speaker 1>has pushed back adoption and raised questions about what it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to look like once regulators are done shaping it.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think we are very very far removed from

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<v Speaker 1>this niche libertarian space that it used to be. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and then just one more thing about the way he

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<v Speaker 1>is thinking about the world. Can you tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>his views on the blockchain. He strongly believes that essentially

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<v Speaker 1>crypto should be used uh in transactions to buy a sandwich,

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<v Speaker 1>or to even to buy a car, and so he's

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<v Speaker 1>been promoting bitcoin cash for use in transactions, and he

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<v Speaker 1>is very much unhappy with the way bitcoin has developed.

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<v Speaker 1>He is no longer promoting bitcoin itself. Interesting enough, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because bitcoin has emerged as more of a

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<v Speaker 1>store of value and he believes this is not what

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<v Speaker 1>crypt or should be about. He of course has a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of opponents in the in that view, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>what he believes. Up next, more with Boomberg reporter all

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<v Speaker 1>the caif on Roger Verse dealings with coin Flex and Genesis.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back, all got We know that ver

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<v Speaker 1>has been entangled with Genesis, which also has been in

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<v Speaker 1>the news quite a bit recently as we know now

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<v Speaker 1>remember the Winkle Boss brothers have been waging a public

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<v Speaker 1>fight against Genesis, even calling for Barry Silber, the founder

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<v Speaker 1>of the digital currency group I hired, to step down

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<v Speaker 1>as as CEO. But they claim that he owes them

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<v Speaker 1>millions of dollars for some trades that he had with them.

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<v Speaker 1>So can you tell us about what's going on between

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<v Speaker 1>the two of them in this feud that they're having publicly? Sure? So,

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<v Speaker 1>Genesis has a landing arm and a trading arm, and

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<v Speaker 1>the landing arm recently went bankrupt, but the trading arm

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<v Speaker 1>of the company is still around and functioning, and Genesis

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<v Speaker 1>Trading recently filed a lawsuit against Roger for saying that

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<v Speaker 1>he hasn't settled about twenty million dollars worth of options

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<v Speaker 1>on the platform. When I talked to Roger about this,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, you know, my contract with Genesis Trading basically

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<v Speaker 1>stipulates that they have to be solvent for me to

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<v Speaker 1>settle any transactions. And when I asked them for financial statements,

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<v Speaker 1>they declined to provide them. So that's what he says. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's interesting that this lawsuit comes on the heels

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<v Speaker 1>of another sort of payment issue that Roger has had

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<v Speaker 1>in the last year. Coin Flex, which is an exchange,

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<v Speaker 1>alleged that Roger failed to pay a margin call, and

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<v Speaker 1>this litigation with him is still ongoing. Now. Coming back

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<v Speaker 1>to Genesis, Roger said on on social media that he

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<v Speaker 1>has enough money to pay back. He just believes that

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<v Speaker 1>Genesis Trading is in violation of their contract with him.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering how Roger actually responded to coin Flex's accusations.

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<v Speaker 1>He says he actually doesn't owe them any money, So

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<v Speaker 1>I guess we'll see how it all plays out. At

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<v Speaker 1>this point, it's sort of not clear what the actual

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<v Speaker 1>situation is and who's telling the truth. Oh God, tell

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<v Speaker 1>us what you think verse influence is in the crypto

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<v Speaker 1>space going forward? And what is it about these big

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<v Speaker 1>names that tend to dominate the crypt industry in the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto space in general, and why we all follow them

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<v Speaker 1>so closely. The big names, the early investors in this industry,

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're still very influential because they have their fingers

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of different pies. Like Roger for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>he was an early investor in Ripple and bid pain

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<v Speaker 1>and blockchain, dot com and cracking, so he runs his

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<v Speaker 1>own crypto exchange. So he is very influential and listened

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<v Speaker 1>being listened to by a lot of people because he

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<v Speaker 1>is very involved in this industry still, as are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the early adopters, early investors. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>he also has the perspective on this industry that some

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<v Speaker 1>of the more recent investors perhaps don't have. He has

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<v Speaker 1>seen a lot of this market up and and downs,

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<v Speaker 1>and he sort of knows how genially, uh, the scrypto

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<v Speaker 1>cycles play out, and at least I, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>find it very interesting and helpful to follow what he's doing. Alga,

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<v Speaker 1>I love I'm missing with you about the old crypto days,

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<v Speaker 1>if we can call them that. So maybe five or

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<v Speaker 1>six years ago, I remember, at least at Bloomberg it

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<v Speaker 1>was mainly me and you covering cryptocurrencies and covering some

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<v Speaker 1>of these big names in the space that remain big

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<v Speaker 1>names in the space to this day. So thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for joining us on the podcast today. Oh

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<v Speaker 1>it was so much fun. Thank you so much for

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<v Speaker 1>all Donna. That was Bloomberg reporter Olga Karif you can

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<v Speaker 1>find more of a reporting on the Bloomberg terminal and

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<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check

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<v Speaker 1>out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show

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<v Speaker 1>to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of

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