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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in

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Speaker 2: an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come

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Speaker 2: forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated

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Speaker 2: by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and

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Speaker 2: community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and

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Speaker 2: point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.

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Speaker 2: We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven

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Speaker 2: guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast

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Speaker 2: is intended to state or imply that anyone who has

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Speaker 2: not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: After Kevin Abel died and his death was ruled a suicide,

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Speaker 3: Stacy Reeves was scared. Kevin's friend Jordan, said that Stacy

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Speaker 3: told her that Kevin was in serious trouble, that he

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Speaker 3: owed a lot of drug money to people, and that

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Speaker 3: she was planning on talking to police officers about what

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Speaker 3: she knew. One of the officers she spoke with was

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Speaker 3: Jerome the Straps. She also told us she wasn't convinced

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Speaker 3: that Kevin's death was a suicide.

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Speaker 4: Think of the funniest person you know and that was Kevin,

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Speaker 4: always smile and laugh and taking joking, that kind of person.

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Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden they killed himself, which happened.

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Speaker 4: The reason I don't think it happened to Kevin wasn't

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Speaker 4: just because of personality. I believe because of what Stacey

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Speaker 4: told me. She said that Kevin had gotten some trouble

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Speaker 4: behind drug money, owed someone drug lay.

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Speaker 3: This immediately sent alarm bells off for Jordans, since she

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Speaker 3: knew about Jerome, and Jordan said that she didn't trust him.

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Speaker 3: Now there's no evidence that Jerome was straps did anything wrong,

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Speaker 3: but police did later call him in for questioning about

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Speaker 3: kk's corners, asking.

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Speaker 1: What he knew and when he knew.

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Speaker 3: We're trying to understand these relationships because in Calcushy Perish

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Speaker 3: they run deep.

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Speaker 4: She says, hey, do you know what Jerome was strapped?

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Speaker 4: And I looked at her and I said, yes, I do.

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Speaker 4: Why And she said because I've been talking to him

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Speaker 4: about Kevin's case. And I said, Stacy, you don't need

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Speaker 4: to do that. He's dirty. She said, well, I know

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Speaker 4: who killed him, and I said who and she said,

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Speaker 4: Richard McKelvin had him killed. And I grabbed my head,

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Speaker 4: and I said, did you tell Jerome with strapsus? Jerome

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Speaker 4: with Straps is a narcotics officer, so anyway, I told

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Speaker 4: her my exact words, Tours, you need to go buy

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Speaker 4: a gun and you need to keep it on you

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Speaker 4: at all times because this isn't going to end good.

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Speaker 4: I said, Call Jerome. Tell him that you were just

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Speaker 4: listening to what other people were saying and you were

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Speaker 4: believing it because you were grieving. And just tell him

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Speaker 4: that you know you didn't know any of it to

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Speaker 4: be true. I said, Stacey, please promise me. And that

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Speaker 4: was it. That was the last words I said.

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Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend.

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Speaker 3: Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,

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Speaker 3: Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing

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Speaker 3: as a small town where murder never happens. I have

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Speaker 3: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country

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Speaker 3: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,

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Speaker 3: their families.

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Speaker 1: And their communities.

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Speaker 3: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 3: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 3: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

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Speaker 3: seven four four, six one four or five. That's six seven,

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Speaker 3: eight seven four four, six' one four or, five or

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Speaker 3: you can send us a message On instagram At Helen.

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Speaker 3: Gonpott this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line we've been covering

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Speaker 3: The Kk's corner case for weeks And i've read every

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Speaker 3: single article out there about the, case including a lot

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Speaker 3: from the local, newspaper The American. Press i've seen THE id,

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Speaker 3: special And i've Seen America's Most. Wanted in my, opinion

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Speaker 3: there's a lot left out of these reports because after

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Speaker 3: the initial rumors About Richard, mcalvin who was cleared by,

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Speaker 3: police pretty much the only suspect ever mentioned in news

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Speaker 3: reports is twenty nine year Old Tomas. Cisco we're finding

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Speaker 3: out that even though it was late at night and

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Speaker 3: the store was, closing there were more people coming Through

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Speaker 3: Kyk's corner in the early morning hours Of july, sixth

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven than originally. Thought both before and after

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Speaker 3: twenty one year Old Marty, lebuff twenty six year Old Stacy,

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Speaker 3: reeves and.

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Speaker 1: Fourteen year Old Nicole guildry were brutally.

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Speaker 3: Murdered police had no clear suspects until after the episode

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Speaker 3: Of America's Most wanted, aired and they became laser focused

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Speaker 3: On Thomas. Cisco from what we, know they never found

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Speaker 3: the other, man the one in the composite. Drawings Tomas

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Speaker 3: cisco was convicted of all three, murders but following an,

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Speaker 3: appeal which he, won he got a new. Trial after a,

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Speaker 3: deal he pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and

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Speaker 3: was sentenced to ninety years in. Prison he's up for

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Speaker 3: parole this. Year because the second killer was never, caught

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Speaker 3: most of the case file is still. Unavailable we did

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Speaker 3: get some responses to our foyer. Requests we don't have

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Speaker 3: the entire court transcripts because we were told that the

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Speaker 3: would cost around thirteen hundred, dollars but we do have

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Speaker 3: a few, elements including the closing arguments from both sides

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Speaker 3: and through civil depositions that were given to us by family.

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Speaker 3: Members we've been trying to piece together the police. Investigation

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Speaker 3: it turns out there were several suspects who were questioned by.

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Speaker 3: Police what happened to them and could one of them

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Speaker 3: have been the second? Killer and what happened to the

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Speaker 3: physical evidence the hares found on the bodies and the

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Speaker 3: cigarette that was found in the. Cooler as we said last,

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Speaker 3: week one of the things that it seemed like everyone

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Speaker 3: agreed on was the fact That kk's corner seemed like

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Speaker 3: an inside. Job there were a lot of other people

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Speaker 3: who were interviewed by. Police one of the things that

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Speaker 3: police did logically was asked the store's, Owner Kenny, klain

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Speaker 3: about any disgruntled employees or anyone with a reason to

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Speaker 3: be angry at him or the. Store one was a

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Speaker 3: former employee Named Nathaniel. Gobert according to court, docu he

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Speaker 3: was caught stealing money from the store a few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Earlier he told police when they questioned, him he admitted

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Speaker 3: to stealing three hundred and fifty eight dollars from the.

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Speaker 3: Store buddy said That kenny had given him two weeks

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Speaker 3: to pay the money.

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Speaker 1: Back he, did And kenny dropped the.

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Speaker 3: Charges nathaniel told police that he was banned from the

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Speaker 3: store and had not been back in since his. Firing

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Speaker 3: police Asked nathaniel where he was on the night of the.

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Speaker 3: Killings he said that he was with friends eating pizza

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Speaker 3: on the evening Of july. Fifth police apparently verified his

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Speaker 3: alibi And nathaniel passed a polygraph. Test Huey, lyttleton the

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Speaker 3: insurance investigator who had done his own investigations in The

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Speaker 3: ellender murders also called people to interview them About Kk's

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Speaker 3: corner And Hughey lyttleton presented evidence to police, later including

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Speaker 3: a videotaped interview with a friend Of nathaniel's who claimed

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Speaker 3: That nathaniel had talked about committing the murders for money

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Speaker 3: and said that he didn't Like. Stacy according to court,

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Speaker 3: documents the VC f did talk to these. Friends nathaniel

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Speaker 3: had an, alibi and apparently police decided that was the

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Speaker 3: end of.

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Speaker 1: That it seemed to be another strange dead.

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Speaker 3: End Evelyn ubray mentioned in her closing arguments that law

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Speaker 3: enforcement believed that the killer was someone with intimate knowledge

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Speaker 3: of the store for several. Reasons one the fact that

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Speaker 3: the killer had cut the phone. Lines, also the killer

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Speaker 3: appeared to Know stacey And marty and apparently knew what

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Speaker 3: time the store. Closed they knew about the video. Surveillance

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Speaker 3: they knew that the money would be in the. Safe,

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Speaker 3: also they were able to rob the store right before

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Speaker 3: the alarm company would be alerted at one. Am the

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Speaker 3: window when the murder happened is actually pretty. Small according

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Speaker 3: to information that came out in, Court THE fbi stated

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Speaker 3: that kk's corner was one of the most heavily trafficked

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Speaker 3: convenience stores in that. Region there were people coming and

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Speaker 3: going from the store all. Night one of the store,

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Speaker 3: Managers Sherwood, carpenter told police he called the store at

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Speaker 3: about eleven thirty. Pm he said he was chatting To

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Speaker 3: stacy from then until around eleven forty. Three that's When

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Speaker 3: stacy told him she needed to hang at the phone

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Speaker 3: and finish mopping the. Floors, now during this, time witnesses

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Speaker 3: did see people in the.

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Speaker 1: Store marty was working at the.

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Speaker 3: Counter then just a few minutes after, That Virginia johnson

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Speaker 3: stopped by at around eleven forty FIVE pm to get.

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Speaker 3: Gas Sherwood carpenter called again at twelve oh six, am

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Speaker 3: but no one. Answered, now that was inside the, store

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Speaker 3: but the parking lot outside the store also had its

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Speaker 3: own group of, regulars even after the store closed at.

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Speaker 3: Midnight remember That Virginia johnson and her boyfriend drove By

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Speaker 3: kk's again at around twelve thirty. Am they saw the

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Speaker 3: red truck with the passenger door open and the black

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Speaker 3: car with the trunk open still parked at the same

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Speaker 3: spot Where virginia had noticed them. Earlier by the side

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Speaker 3: entrance of the. Store minutes after, that there was another

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Speaker 3: guy who was a friend Of. Marty's he worked At

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Speaker 3: Little Caesar's. Pizza he drove by at around twelve thirty five.

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Speaker 3: Am he Noticed marty And stacy's cars there and thought

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Speaker 3: that was a little bit, odd but figured maybe they

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Speaker 3: were just closing up later. Something but this person told

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Speaker 3: police he did not notice a red truck or a black.

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Speaker 3: Car there were also some men who showed up every

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Speaker 3: night for their paper. Route the local, newspaper The Late

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Speaker 3: Charles American, press had a van that would arrive in

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Speaker 3: the early morning hours to drop papers with the delivery.

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Speaker 3: Men those men would wait in the kk's parking lot

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Speaker 3: for that van and then hang out and usually fold

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Speaker 3: their papers there before starting out on their. Route, now

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Speaker 3: one of those paper delivery, Guys Jerry, peters told police

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Speaker 3: that he was waiting to pick up his papers At

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Speaker 3: kk's between one p fifteen and one thirty. Am he

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Speaker 3: was parked across the street at The Fairview estates trailer,

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Speaker 3: park and while he was, there he said that he

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Speaker 3: saw an Unmarked Share department vehicle also pull into The

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Speaker 3: Fairview estate's trailer. Park Then jerry said he saw a

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Speaker 3: white male get out of a Green Eagle, talon A

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Speaker 3: s forty car with a hatchback that was made By

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Speaker 3: chrysler And. Mitsubishi jerry said that he saw the man

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Speaker 3: go over to The Sheriff's department vehicle and then go

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Speaker 3: back to his own car as the police car pulled

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Speaker 3: in behind. Him the guy in the police car got

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Speaker 3: out opened his. Trunk jerry said that he thought the

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Speaker 3: other guy in The talon also opened his. Trunk he

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Speaker 3: said they talked, briefly and Then jerry saw that the

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Speaker 3: guy with The talon slammed his. Trunk In jerry's, words

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Speaker 3: that man looked visibly. Upset then he got back in

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Speaker 3: his car and drove, off almost backing into the police

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Speaker 3: car in the. Process then both cars turned north On

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Speaker 3: highway fourteen and. Disappeared the man in the Unmarked Sheriff's

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Speaker 3: department vehicle has never been. Identified what was he doing?

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Speaker 3: There could he have had something to do with the

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Speaker 3: killings At kk's corner or could he have known what

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Speaker 3: was going down that. Night in closing, Arguments Thomas cisco's,

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Speaker 3: Lawyer evelyn New bray mentioned another potential Suspect Miles. Addison

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Speaker 3: she pointed out That Miles addison knew the workings of the,

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Speaker 3: store the surveillance, videos the, videotape That Miles addison Knew

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Speaker 3: marty And, stacey and that he knew the store. Procedures

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Speaker 3: at closing, Time evelyn U bray also Mentioned richard mcelvin

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Speaker 3: and another suspect that the police had. Suggested at one

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Speaker 3: point she noticed those men's similarities to the composite.

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Speaker 1: Photo evelyn New bray.

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Speaker 3: Said that none of these potential suspects had any connection

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Speaker 3: To Thomas, cisco THOUGH i will point out one possible

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Speaker 3: connection is the fact that they all did Know Stacy.

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Speaker 3: Reeves evelyn also highlighted problems With Thomas cisco's. Confessions she

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Speaker 3: questioned Whether Thomas cisco was really giving information to the

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Speaker 3: police that only the killer would have, known or just

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Speaker 3: repeating information that he could have gotten from Watching America's Most.

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Speaker 3: Wanted we know That Virginia johnson was driving her boyfriend's

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Speaker 3: black pickup truck that. Night Thomas cisco told police he

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00:13:54,241 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 3: saw the witness pull up in a turquoise. Car now

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Speaker 3: in her closing, Statement evelyn New bray pointed out that

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Speaker 3: The America's Most wanted re enactment showed the perpetrator pulling

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Speaker 3: up in a blue, car And Thomas cisco said in

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00:14:08,921 --> 00:14:12,161
Speaker 3: every version of his story that the witness was, white

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00:14:12,681 --> 00:14:16,721
Speaker 3: While Virginia johnson is black And Tomas cisco wasn't the

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Speaker 3: only person whose memory and Testimony evelyn called. Out under,

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Speaker 3: Hypnosis Virginia johnson talked about the second man she. Saw

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Speaker 3: she said that that second man had a rabbit head.

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Speaker 3: Keychain the rabbit head did not become a rabbit foot until.

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Speaker 3: Later we've talked about this. Before evelya and New bray

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Speaker 3: wondered in court whether it could have been a playboy

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Speaker 3: bunny symbol those were everywhere in the, nineties or something.

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Speaker 3: Else how did investigators get the change from rabbit's head

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00:14:47,441 --> 00:14:52,401
Speaker 3: to rabbit's. Foot, Also Virginia johnson mentioned seeing the.

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Speaker 1: Hair on the arms of the.

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Speaker 3: Witness Tomas cisco has several tattoos on his, arm including a,

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00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:02,561
Speaker 3: dragon Yet Virginia johnson never mentioned a tattoo until the,

241
00:15:02,641 --> 00:15:05,681
Speaker 3: lineup when she said that she remembered the second, man

242
00:15:05,721 --> 00:15:09,041
Speaker 3: the one she hadn't seen that clearly had tattoos on his.

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00:15:09,121 --> 00:15:13,641
Speaker 3: Hands Virginia johnson said the, Victim Nicole, guidry had hair

244
00:15:13,681 --> 00:15:17,201
Speaker 3: that was long in a, ponytail when in, Reality nicole's

245
00:15:17,241 --> 00:15:18,321
Speaker 3: hair was four inches.

246
00:15:18,361 --> 00:15:20,801
Speaker 1: Long but in The America's Most.

247
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Speaker 3: Wanted, episode the re enactment actor Playing nicole had, long

248
00:15:24,361 --> 00:15:27,961
Speaker 3: dark hair in a. Ponytail same story With Stacy reeve's.

249
00:15:28,001 --> 00:15:31,601
Speaker 3: Outfit stacy was wearing an orange shirt and orange. Shorts

250
00:15:32,001 --> 00:15:34,761
Speaker 3: virginia said the shirt was lime green and That stacy

251
00:15:34,841 --> 00:15:37,121
Speaker 3: was wearing blue jean shorts that went down to her. Knees,

252
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Speaker 3: again that's what the actress Playing stacy wore on THE tv. Show,

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Speaker 3: basically the defense called into question Whether Virginia johnson actually

254
00:15:46,761 --> 00:15:49,881
Speaker 3: remembered what she thought she, remembered or whether it could

255
00:15:49,881 --> 00:15:52,721
Speaker 3: have been something she saw ON tv or something that

256
00:15:52,761 --> 00:15:56,561
Speaker 3: was suggested to, her even totally unintentionally by police or

257
00:15:56,601 --> 00:15:59,721
Speaker 3: by other. People we found out that there were a

258
00:15:59,841 --> 00:16:04,401
Speaker 3: lot of inconsistencies In Virginia johnson's. Story in her closing,

259
00:16:04,481 --> 00:16:07,801
Speaker 3: Arguments evelyne New bray talked about what she claimed were

260
00:16:07,841 --> 00:16:12,001
Speaker 3: flaws in the witness. Identification we mentioned in earlier episodes

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00:16:12,201 --> 00:16:14,481
Speaker 3: that a lot of people in town talked about how

262
00:16:14,521 --> 00:16:18,121
Speaker 3: the composite photo looked similar To Richard. Mcalvin but it

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00:16:18,161 --> 00:16:21,641
Speaker 3: turns Out Richard mcalvin was not the only person with

264
00:16:21,721 --> 00:16:24,881
Speaker 3: a resemblance to that. Photo evelyn New bray said the

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00:16:24,881 --> 00:16:29,481
Speaker 3: photo resembled other, people including former Kk's corner Employee Miles

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00:16:29,521 --> 00:16:33,001
Speaker 3: adison and another. Man she showed those photos and the

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00:16:33,041 --> 00:16:37,521
Speaker 3: composite drawings side by side in that. Courtroom, meanwhile she

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00:16:37,601 --> 00:16:41,441
Speaker 3: said there were no composite drawings that Resembled Tomas. Cisco

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Speaker 3: in closing, arguments she taught talked about the difference between

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Speaker 3: direct evidence like a, witness an indirect or circumstantial. Evidence

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00:16:49,921 --> 00:16:52,761
Speaker 3: to illustrate, that she gave the example of someone seeing

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Speaker 3: a person come in with a, gun then hearing a,

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Speaker 3: shot and seeing that.

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Speaker 1: Person flee the. Scene that would be indirect.

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Speaker 3: Evidence she said that the case Against Thomas cisco was

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00:17:03,121 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 3: entirely circumstantial and the jury was instructed they could not

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00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,640
Speaker 3: convict a defendant based on circumstantial evidence unless quote the

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00:17:10,721 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 3: facts proved by the evidence exclude every reasonable hypothesis of

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Speaker 3: innocence end. Quote there was no physical, evidence no scientific,

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Speaker 3: evidence and no direct evidence Against Tomas. Cisco evely And

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00:17:25,281 --> 00:17:28,761
Speaker 3: wbray also talked about common. Sense she said that this

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00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,161
Speaker 3: crime did not make sense from a common sense point

283
00:17:31,161 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 3: of view. Either she asked a question that a lot

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00:17:33,441 --> 00:17:36,360
Speaker 3: of people have, asked why would someone drive all the

285
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 3: way From New orleans to Rob Kk's, corner one of

286
00:17:39,521 --> 00:17:41,801
Speaker 3: the most highly trafficked convenience stores in that.

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00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,361
Speaker 1: Area she asked the jury to.

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Speaker 3: Consider how someone Of Thomas, cisco's as she called, it limited,

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00:17:48,281 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 3: intelligence who according to his medical, records had, blackouts and

290
00:17:51,641 --> 00:17:54,241
Speaker 3: who did, drugs and who, was according to his own

291
00:17:54,281 --> 00:17:56,761
Speaker 3: testimony a lot of the time blacked out on drugs

292
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,241
Speaker 3: during this time. Period how someone like that could have

293
00:18:00,321 --> 00:18:03,120
Speaker 3: planned a crime that involved intimate knowledge of the store

294
00:18:03,361 --> 00:18:07,521
Speaker 3: and left no evidence. Behind Evelyn ubray told the jury

295
00:18:07,721 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 3: That Thomas cisco would not have had the knowledge of

296
00:18:09,921 --> 00:18:12,561
Speaker 3: the store's security systems or the knowledge of how to

297
00:18:12,601 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 3: cut those phone. Lines and she said none of the

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00:18:15,921 --> 00:18:18,721
Speaker 3: suspects or potential people of interest that the police had

299
00:18:18,801 --> 00:18:22,561
Speaker 3: questioned or even, considered had any connection To Thomas. Cisco

300
00:18:23,401 --> 00:18:27,481
Speaker 3: the prosecuting, Attorney Rick bryant. Countered he, Said Thomas cisco

301
00:18:27,601 --> 00:18:31,721
Speaker 3: was not, naive he was not, dumb he was extremely street,

302
00:18:31,761 --> 00:18:34,001
Speaker 3: smart and he absolutely could have had a role in

303
00:18:34,041 --> 00:18:38,241
Speaker 3: the murders And Rick bryant asked Why Virginia, johnson the,

304
00:18:38,241 --> 00:18:42,281
Speaker 3: witness would have any reason to. Lie Evelyn ubray said

305
00:18:42,481 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 3: she might not have intentionedly, lied but that memory is

306
00:18:45,921 --> 00:18:46,361
Speaker 3: like a tape.

307
00:18:46,401 --> 00:18:47,920
Speaker 1: Recorder things can be.

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00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:52,001
Speaker 3: Distorted even if people think their recall is, perfect they

309
00:18:52,041 --> 00:18:55,401
Speaker 3: could be dead. Wrong she also talked about the fact

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00:18:55,441 --> 00:18:58,041
Speaker 3: that many of the details of the WITNESS id did

311
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,881
Speaker 3: not come out until months after the, murder When Virginia

312
00:19:00,961 --> 00:19:05,281
Speaker 3: johnson was. Hypnotized so let's talk about this hypnosis for a.

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Speaker 3: Minute we did some. Digging we found out the hypnosis

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00:19:08,881 --> 00:19:12,321
Speaker 3: was done by a forensic psychologist named Doctor Michael. Gallis

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00:19:12,761 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 3: now Doctor gallis is very well. Known he was the

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00:19:15,681 --> 00:19:19,441
Speaker 3: chief forensic psychologist for The Naval Criminal Investigative services in

317
00:19:19,441 --> 00:19:21,761
Speaker 3: two thousand and two when he and some of his

318
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,001
Speaker 3: colleagues found out The navy was using unauthorized interrogation techniques

319
00:19:26,041 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 3: on one of the suspected hijackers from nine to. Eleven

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00:19:29,281 --> 00:19:33,441
Speaker 3: they claimed that Hijacker mohammad Al catani had been deprived

321
00:19:33,481 --> 00:19:37,281
Speaker 3: of sleep for twenty eight. Days Doctor gallis was praised

322
00:19:37,281 --> 00:19:40,120
Speaker 3: for blowing the whistle about these illegal interrogations that were

323
00:19:40,121 --> 00:19:43,441
Speaker 3: happening In Guantanamo, bay but his career has also had

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00:19:43,521 --> 00:19:47,281
Speaker 3: its share of. Controversy in nineteen ninety, nine Doctor gellis

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00:19:47,281 --> 00:19:51,801
Speaker 3: interviewed A naval Officer Petty, Officer Daniel. Kane daniel had

326
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,721
Speaker 3: been stationed In. Guam he was supposed to start a

327
00:19:54,761 --> 00:19:58,121
Speaker 3: new assignment with THE. Nsa before he accepted that, position

328
00:19:58,281 --> 00:20:00,641
Speaker 3: he apparently had to take a routine polygraph.

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00:20:00,721 --> 00:20:02,241
Speaker 1: Test the test was.

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00:20:02,241 --> 00:20:06,641
Speaker 3: Inconclusive daniel ended up being charged with providing classified information

331
00:20:06,801 --> 00:20:11,761
Speaker 3: ABOUT us submarine intelligence programs To. Russia SO ncis agents

332
00:20:11,801 --> 00:20:15,481
Speaker 3: started Interrogating. Daniel they detained, him which they were allowed to,

333
00:20:15,481 --> 00:20:17,961
Speaker 3: do and the questioning sessions lasted.

334
00:20:17,601 --> 00:20:19,161
Speaker 1: Between twelve and nineteen.

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00:20:19,241 --> 00:20:24,001
Speaker 3: Hours they did this for twenty nine, days and When

336
00:20:24,121 --> 00:20:28,321
Speaker 3: daniel asked for a, lawyer they ignored. Him daniel started

337
00:20:28,321 --> 00:20:31,721
Speaker 3: to lose touch with. Reality he told his interrogators that

338
00:20:31,801 --> 00:20:35,441
Speaker 3: he was depressed in. Suicidal after about three weeks of,

339
00:20:35,481 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 3: this he told the agents holding him he wanted to

340
00:20:38,161 --> 00:20:41,161
Speaker 3: see a, psychiatrist so that's when they brought in Doctor.

341
00:20:41,201 --> 00:20:45,721
Speaker 3: Gellis daniel told Doctor galllis that he couldn't remember committing,

342
00:20:45,881 --> 00:20:49,801
Speaker 3: espionage but said Doctor gallis told him the polygraph examination

343
00:20:50,001 --> 00:20:53,721
Speaker 3: proved he must have done. Something this obviously wasn't. True

344
00:20:54,241 --> 00:20:56,721
Speaker 3: daniel was also told that he had failed the polygraph

345
00:20:56,801 --> 00:21:01,121
Speaker 3: test that also wasn't. True the results were. Inconclusive according

346
00:21:01,121 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 3: to a later, Complaint daniel became extremely distraught during this.

347
00:21:05,561 --> 00:21:08,961
Speaker 3: Questioning he grabbed a knife and tried to stab himself

348
00:21:09,001 --> 00:21:13,721
Speaker 3: in the. Stomach After Daniel king was eventually, released his

349
00:21:13,801 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 3: attorney filed an ethics complaint against Doctor gallis with THE,

350
00:21:16,641 --> 00:21:21,361
Speaker 3: apa but it was not, accepted and the controversy over

351
00:21:21,441 --> 00:21:25,001
Speaker 3: Doctor gallis and over Those guantanamo interrogations continues to this.

352
00:21:25,161 --> 00:21:28,161
Speaker 3: Day all of this went down just two years after

353
00:21:28,201 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 3: the murders at Kk's. Corner i'm telling this story to

354
00:21:31,521 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 3: illustrate that hypnosis is not some kind of magic.

355
00:21:34,881 --> 00:21:35,841
Speaker 1: Bullet it's.

356
00:21:35,881 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 3: Controversial the success of any interrogation relies heavily on the,

357
00:21:40,201 --> 00:21:43,761
Speaker 3: interrogators and we know that there were many different versions

358
00:21:43,761 --> 00:21:48,081
Speaker 3: Of Thomas cisco's story, told and many different versions Of Virginia.

359
00:21:48,121 --> 00:21:53,681
Speaker 3: Johnson's during the Kk's corner, trial Doctor gellis testified about the.

360
00:21:53,721 --> 00:21:58,241
Speaker 3: Hypnosis he said hypnosis was quote nothing more than a

361
00:21:58,281 --> 00:22:01,681
Speaker 3: form of relaxation end. Quote he said there is no

362
00:22:01,881 --> 00:22:06,201
Speaker 3: research to show that information obtained under hypnosis is. Accurate he,

363
00:22:06,321 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: explained the only way to know for sure was to

364
00:22:08,721 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 3: independently corroborate that. Information but in the Kk's corner, case

365
00:22:13,481 --> 00:22:17,081
Speaker 3: corroborating the evidence was difficult, because as we have been

366
00:22:17,121 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 3: told over and, over there was no physical. Evidence but

367
00:22:21,201 --> 00:22:24,721
Speaker 3: it turned out that wasn't quite. True according to THE fbi,

368
00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:28,681
Speaker 3: report Numerous caucasian hairs were found on the, bodies but

369
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 3: none of those hairs were a match For Thomas. Cisco

370
00:22:31,921 --> 00:22:34,761
Speaker 3: blood samples were taken from the crime. Scene none of

371
00:22:34,801 --> 00:22:38,801
Speaker 3: the blood samples Matched Thomas, cisco and there were only

372
00:22:38,881 --> 00:22:42,241
Speaker 3: four latent prints taken from the entire crime, scene but

373
00:22:42,361 --> 00:22:45,281
Speaker 3: none of those prints were A machi. Either THE fbi

374
00:22:45,361 --> 00:22:47,881
Speaker 3: report also mentioned there were other fibers at the crime,

375
00:22:47,921 --> 00:22:53,401
Speaker 3: scene blue green and red carpet type. Fibers those fibers

376
00:22:53,401 --> 00:22:57,201
Speaker 3: were taken off all of the. Victims investigators never found

377
00:22:57,201 --> 00:23:01,201
Speaker 3: a match to those. Fibers Evelyn ubray stated in court

378
00:23:01,441 --> 00:23:04,201
Speaker 3: That Tomas cisco was a chainsmoker and that there was

379
00:23:04,241 --> 00:23:06,481
Speaker 3: a cigarette butt found on the floor of the, cooler

380
00:23:06,921 --> 00:23:09,681
Speaker 3: but there was no record of that cigarette ever being

381
00:23:09,681 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: processed FOR. Dna she asked why law enforcement did not

382
00:23:14,121 --> 00:23:16,321
Speaker 3: test a cigarette that could have been linked to the.

383
00:23:16,401 --> 00:23:18,321
Speaker 1: Killer we asked about the.

384
00:23:18,401 --> 00:23:21,281
Speaker 3: Evidence we wanted to know whether it could be retested,

385
00:23:21,321 --> 00:23:24,761
Speaker 3: today but we're still not sure of the. Status we

386
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,601
Speaker 3: don't know if the evidence still exists or what condition it's.

387
00:23:27,641 --> 00:23:30,641
Speaker 3: In Lame lebuff believes that it burned in a, fire

388
00:23:31,041 --> 00:23:34,201
Speaker 3: but we don't have confirmation of. That if it does

389
00:23:34,281 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 3: exist and if they still have, it could it be

390
00:23:37,241 --> 00:23:45,761
Speaker 3: retested and could that testing lead to another. Suspect At

391
00:23:45,801 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: Thomas sisko's, trial his defense Attorney evelyn U bray was

392
00:23:49,121 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 3: trying to focus the jury on alternative, suspects and a

393
00:23:52,961 --> 00:23:56,001
Speaker 3: lot of people wondered if this case could be connected

394
00:23:56,001 --> 00:23:58,281
Speaker 3: to drug deals that had been going down At Kk's.

395
00:23:58,281 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: Corner you may remember from last week that the owner

396
00:24:01,121 --> 00:24:03,441
Speaker 3: of the store at the, Time Kenny, klein said that

397
00:24:03,481 --> 00:24:06,201
Speaker 3: about a year before the, murders an employee came to

398
00:24:06,281 --> 00:24:10,161
Speaker 3: him and told him that several, employees Including Marty lebuff

399
00:24:10,361 --> 00:24:15,121
Speaker 3: And Nathaniel, gobert were dealing drugs At Kk's. Corner police

400
00:24:15,201 --> 00:24:19,241
Speaker 3: talked to the, Employee Stephen. Viator he said that when

401
00:24:19,241 --> 00:24:22,321
Speaker 3: he Told kenny about the alleged drug. Dealing kenny told

402
00:24:22,441 --> 00:24:25,001
Speaker 3: him that he should mind his own, business And stephen

403
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,321
Speaker 3: said his hours were cut from forty hours a week

404
00:24:27,521 --> 00:24:31,441
Speaker 3: down to just a few soon, afterwards But kenny did

405
00:24:31,481 --> 00:24:35,321
Speaker 3: tell law enforcement about his employee's. Suspicions and then two,

406
00:24:35,401 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 3: Officers jerome With straps And jason, mcwright came by to

407
00:24:39,401 --> 00:24:43,721
Speaker 3: try to do some undercover. Buys kenny said police told

408
00:24:43,721 --> 00:24:46,601
Speaker 3: told him that the undercover buyers had. Failed they were

409
00:24:46,681 --> 00:24:49,681
Speaker 3: unable to buy drugs at the, store so life went

410
00:24:49,721 --> 00:24:53,961
Speaker 3: on at kk's. Corner after the, murders police talked to

411
00:24:54,001 --> 00:24:56,681
Speaker 3: more than one person who said That marty was dealing

412
00:24:56,761 --> 00:25:00,601
Speaker 3: marijuana out of kk's, corner and we know From miles

413
00:25:00,601 --> 00:25:04,561
Speaker 3: addison statements to police that he was dealing drugs, too including,

414
00:25:04,601 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 3: COCAINE lsd and pot out of the. Store according to police,

415
00:25:09,121 --> 00:25:12,481
Speaker 3: Documents stacey had talked to two officers in the weeks

416
00:25:12,521 --> 00:25:15,761
Speaker 3: before the murders about drug dealing in kk's. Corner one

417
00:25:15,801 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: of them Was jerome With. Straps Detective deluge knew That

418
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 3: jerome Was straps worked narcotics for THE Calcashu Paris Sheriff's,

419
00:25:23,401 --> 00:25:26,721
Speaker 3: department so he contacted the chief Of detectives There John.

420
00:25:26,761 --> 00:25:30,681
Speaker 3: Fryar he asked If stacy had been a confidential informant for.

421
00:25:30,721 --> 00:25:35,361
Speaker 3: Anyone John fryar, said to his, Knowledge stacy never provided

422
00:25:35,401 --> 00:25:38,921
Speaker 3: intel to any of his. Officers but, later according to court,

423
00:25:38,961 --> 00:25:42,401
Speaker 3: Documents jerome With straps said he had talked To stacy

424
00:25:42,721 --> 00:25:46,281
Speaker 3: about working under co with The sheriff's. Office he said

425
00:25:46,601 --> 00:25:50,441
Speaker 3: she told him about people dealing Kevin abel drugs and

426
00:25:50,521 --> 00:25:54,681
Speaker 3: her suspicion That kevin's death was not a. Homicide according

427
00:25:54,721 --> 00:25:57,921
Speaker 3: to a statement made By jerome With, straps he Advised

428
00:25:57,921 --> 00:26:01,241
Speaker 3: stacy that with two young, daughters undercover work might be

429
00:26:01,281 --> 00:26:03,801
Speaker 3: dangerous for. Her he said he told her that if

430
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 3: she had information About kevin's, death she should contact the

431
00:26:06,921 --> 00:26:10,761
Speaker 3: investigator in charge of that. Case In february of nineteen ninety,

432
00:26:10,801 --> 00:26:15,161
Speaker 3: nine the attorney working on a civil lawsuit Contacted jerome With.

433
00:26:15,241 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: Straps he confirmed police did send an undercover officer in

434
00:26:19,681 --> 00:26:22,641
Speaker 3: to make a buy AT. KKs they said that none

435
00:26:22,681 --> 00:26:25,201
Speaker 3: of the employees suspected of selling drugs were on duty

436
00:26:25,201 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 3: at that time and that.

437
00:26:26,201 --> 00:26:27,041
Speaker 1: That's why it didn't.

438
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 3: Work he said they hung around outside the store for

439
00:26:29,681 --> 00:26:32,361
Speaker 3: a few nights and didn't see any evidence of drug,

440
00:26:32,401 --> 00:26:36,721
Speaker 3: dealing so they suspended the. Operation, Now jerome With straps

441
00:26:36,761 --> 00:26:39,801
Speaker 3: had a second. Job he worked security three nights a

442
00:26:39,801 --> 00:26:42,641
Speaker 3: week at The kettle restaurant from twelve am to six.

443
00:26:42,681 --> 00:26:46,961
Speaker 3: Am erome Said stacy would sometimes come into the restaurant

444
00:26:46,961 --> 00:26:49,241
Speaker 3: and talk to. Him she would talk to him About

445
00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:52,321
Speaker 3: kevin's drug dealing and her fears For kevin's life and

446
00:26:52,441 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: later for her. Life jerome Said stacy talked to him

447
00:26:56,001 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: three or four times Before kevin's death and two to

448
00:26:58,921 --> 00:27:02,241
Speaker 3: three times. Afterward in the weeks before she was, Murdered

449
00:27:03,681 --> 00:27:06,281
Speaker 3: jerome Was strapped said in the early morning hours Of july,

450
00:27:06,401 --> 00:27:08,321
Speaker 3: six he was on his way to work at The.

451
00:27:08,361 --> 00:27:10,921
Speaker 3: Kettle he said he was running, late and he drove

452
00:27:11,041 --> 00:27:12,561
Speaker 3: through the kk's.

453
00:27:12,041 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: Corner parking lot at twelve twenty two.

454
00:27:14,001 --> 00:27:17,321
Speaker 3: Am he said at that point he noticed the store

455
00:27:17,401 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: looked well, lit like it was open for. Business he

456
00:27:20,161 --> 00:27:23,681
Speaker 3: said he remembered thinking that was slightly, unusual but thought

457
00:27:23,721 --> 00:27:25,721
Speaker 3: maybe they were staying late because it was a holiday.

458
00:27:25,761 --> 00:27:30,121
Speaker 3: Weekend So jerome Was straps was asked why he waited

459
00:27:30,401 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: so long to reveal that he had been in that parking.

460
00:27:33,881 --> 00:27:36,561
Speaker 3: Lot he said he didn't really have an answer for

461
00:27:36,641 --> 00:27:39,321
Speaker 3: why he had not reported this information to police. Before

462
00:27:39,961 --> 00:27:42,281
Speaker 3: he said he thought he might have Told Deputy deluche

463
00:27:42,321 --> 00:27:44,681
Speaker 3: about him being in that parking lot at the crucial,

464
00:27:44,721 --> 00:27:47,361
Speaker 3: time right around when the murders, happened but that he wasn't.

465
00:27:47,401 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 3: Sure Sheila thigpen was one Of stacy's best. Friends she

466
00:27:51,801 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: stated during a deposition That kevin owed a lot of

467
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,521
Speaker 3: money to, someone possibly as much as five thousand. Dollars

468
00:27:59,641 --> 00:28:03,281
Speaker 3: those weren't his only, Debts sheila Said stacy told her

469
00:28:03,361 --> 00:28:05,961
Speaker 3: That kevin owed nine to ten thousand dollars to some

470
00:28:06,001 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: other people and that, quote if he didn't get the

471
00:28:08,921 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 3: money to this guy, soon he was going to be

472
00:28:10,961 --> 00:28:16,161
Speaker 3: killed end. Quote she Called kevin, paranoid but LIKE i often,

473
00:28:16,201 --> 00:28:21,241
Speaker 3: say paranoid people aren't always. Wrong to get the money

474
00:28:21,281 --> 00:28:24,441
Speaker 3: to pay his, Dealers kevin would write a check to kk's,

475
00:28:24,441 --> 00:28:27,561
Speaker 3: Corner stacey would cash, it And kevin would give the

476
00:28:27,641 --> 00:28:32,321
Speaker 3: drug dealers. Cash stacy believed that someone was following her

477
00:28:32,361 --> 00:28:33,321
Speaker 3: in the last weeks of her.

478
00:28:33,361 --> 00:28:35,881
Speaker 1: Life according To, sheila the people she.

479
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,241
Speaker 3: Was meeting, with a man Named brian and another man

480
00:28:39,321 --> 00:28:42,721
Speaker 3: Named Officer, sweeney were talking to her about her suspicions

481
00:28:42,721 --> 00:28:46,961
Speaker 3: About kevin's. Death sheila, said, Quote stacey was seeing a

482
00:28:47,001 --> 00:28:49,561
Speaker 3: man Named brian because she said she had some evidence

483
00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:53,001
Speaker 3: to pinpoint that it Wasn't kevin's. Handwriting she was going

484
00:28:53,041 --> 00:28:55,801
Speaker 3: to get the letter Through, brian and then she met

485
00:28:55,801 --> 00:28:58,001
Speaker 3: a guy Named Officer sweeney at The kettle one. Night

486
00:28:58,801 --> 00:29:01,121
Speaker 3: she said they were going to help her prove That

487
00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:02,281
Speaker 3: kevin didn't commit.

488
00:29:02,321 --> 00:29:03,201
Speaker 1: Suicide end.

489
00:29:03,281 --> 00:29:06,561
Speaker 3: Quote sheila said she was With stacy one night When

490
00:29:06,561 --> 00:29:09,801
Speaker 3: stacy met With Officer sweeney at The kettle restaurant Where

491
00:29:09,921 --> 00:29:13,561
Speaker 3: jerome was straps and other officers work second. Jobs she

492
00:29:13,641 --> 00:29:15,721
Speaker 3: Said stacy went to the back of The kettle by

493
00:29:15,761 --> 00:29:19,641
Speaker 3: the poker machines and talked To Officer. Sweeney the police

494
00:29:19,681 --> 00:29:23,521
Speaker 3: said they couldn't Find Officer, sweeney BUT i did find

495
00:29:23,561 --> 00:29:26,361
Speaker 3: information about An Officer sweeney who was working for The

496
00:29:26,441 --> 00:29:29,361
Speaker 3: Lake Charles Police department at the. Time i'm trying to

497
00:29:29,401 --> 00:29:31,961
Speaker 3: contact him to see if he is the same officer

498
00:29:32,161 --> 00:29:36,241
Speaker 3: Who sheila saw meeting With. Stacy sheila said That stacy

499
00:29:36,361 --> 00:29:39,241
Speaker 3: told Her Miles addison was dealing marijuana out of the

500
00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:42,761
Speaker 3: store and That stacey bought weed from. Him she said

501
00:29:42,881 --> 00:29:46,761
Speaker 3: she personally Witness stacy filling out a, check Signing kevin's

502
00:29:46,841 --> 00:29:50,641
Speaker 3: name to it and collecting the money from Kk's sheila

503
00:29:50,801 --> 00:29:53,681
Speaker 3: also Said stacy talked to her about people with drug

504
00:29:53,761 --> 00:29:57,801
Speaker 3: code Names, Ice, robo and Kool, aid but she said

505
00:29:57,841 --> 00:30:01,041
Speaker 3: she wasn't sure who any of these people. Were we've

506
00:30:01,081 --> 00:30:03,841
Speaker 3: had several people revealed to us who they believed to

507
00:30:03,881 --> 00:30:06,881
Speaker 3: be the identity Of. Ice were working to verify, it

508
00:30:07,841 --> 00:30:11,441
Speaker 3: But i'm not gonna. Lie it's hard to verify anything

509
00:30:12,041 --> 00:30:15,161
Speaker 3: because a lot of people who were potential witnesses have

510
00:30:15,321 --> 00:30:17,801
Speaker 3: died or left the, saint and the ones who were

511
00:30:17,881 --> 00:30:23,481
Speaker 3: left behind are. Scared Tracy, reeves one Of Stacy reeves's twin,

512
00:30:23,561 --> 00:30:28,041
Speaker 3: daughters died in twenty twenty. One Chad, reeves the sole

513
00:30:28,081 --> 00:30:32,321
Speaker 3: witness To Kevin abel's, death has also passed. Away according

514
00:30:32,361 --> 00:30:35,161
Speaker 3: to The Lake Charles, Police chad was living with his,

515
00:30:35,241 --> 00:30:38,641
Speaker 3: aunt sixty eight year Old Mary Jane. CASEY a family

516
00:30:38,641 --> 00:30:42,521
Speaker 3: member got concerned On july, seventeenth twenty, nineteen when they

517
00:30:42,521 --> 00:30:45,921
Speaker 3: couldn't reach Either chad Or Mary, jane so they called

518
00:30:45,961 --> 00:30:49,481
Speaker 3: for a welfare check at their. Home when officers arrived

519
00:30:49,481 --> 00:30:53,481
Speaker 3: at the, scene they found the bodies Of Mary jane And. Chad,

520
00:30:54,681 --> 00:30:57,681
Speaker 3: later a spokesperson for The Late Charles Police department said

521
00:30:58,121 --> 00:31:01,601
Speaker 3: they believe the night before the welfare, Check chad shot

522
00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:04,361
Speaker 3: his aunt with a shotgun and then turned the gun on.

523
00:31:04,521 --> 00:31:08,481
Speaker 3: Himself the killings were ruled a murder, suicide and the

524
00:31:08,481 --> 00:31:09,561
Speaker 3: city attorney.

525
00:31:09,241 --> 00:31:11,481
Speaker 1: Told a local news station the case had been.

526
00:31:11,481 --> 00:31:16,161
Speaker 3: Closed as we said last, Week Thomas cisco was sentenced

527
00:31:16,201 --> 00:31:19,201
Speaker 3: to ninety years in. Prison his parole was rescinded in

528
00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,201
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, three and he is still incarcerated In, Angola.

529
00:31:22,241 --> 00:31:26,241
Speaker 3: Louisiana according to the latest INFORMATION i can, find he's

530
00:31:26,321 --> 00:31:29,681
Speaker 3: next eligible for parole this. Year in twenty twenty, FIVE

531
00:31:30,761 --> 00:31:33,721
Speaker 3: i Wrote Thomas cisco a letter AND i have been

532
00:31:33,721 --> 00:31:36,841
Speaker 3: in contact with his, sister so IF i am able

533
00:31:36,881 --> 00:31:39,801
Speaker 3: to talk to, HIM i will keep you all. Updated

534
00:31:40,681 --> 00:31:44,361
Speaker 3: The Violent Crimes Task force Of Calkashi perish was disbanded

535
00:31:44,361 --> 00:31:47,321
Speaker 3: three years after The Kk's corner murders in two. Thousand

536
00:31:47,961 --> 00:31:50,401
Speaker 3: that was the same year That Deputy, deluge who headed

537
00:31:50,481 --> 00:31:54,241
Speaker 3: up the, investigation moved. On in two, thousand he became

538
00:31:54,321 --> 00:31:57,801
Speaker 3: the chief of police In, Jennings, louisiana a town about

539
00:31:57,841 --> 00:32:01,561
Speaker 3: thirty seven miles east down the It. In while working In,

540
00:32:01,641 --> 00:32:06,161
Speaker 3: Jennings Deputy deluge faced a sexual harassment. Scandal according to

541
00:32:06,201 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 3: the Book murder in The, bayou he was accused of

542
00:32:09,041 --> 00:32:12,001
Speaker 3: forcing a female employee to make a video of herself

543
00:32:12,041 --> 00:32:15,121
Speaker 3: getting her nipple, piers and then of showing that video

544
00:32:15,241 --> 00:32:19,121
Speaker 3: to work. Colleagues in two thousand and, Three Deputy deluche

545
00:32:19,161 --> 00:32:24,001
Speaker 3: resigned from The Jennings Police. Department he later reportedly worked

546
00:32:24,001 --> 00:32:28,401
Speaker 3: for another police. Department Sheriff Wayne mcalvin is now in

547
00:32:28,401 --> 00:32:31,081
Speaker 3: his mid. Eighties we have been told he is not

548
00:32:31,201 --> 00:32:35,161
Speaker 3: in good. Health his, Son Richard, mcalvin is a chiropractor In.

549
00:32:35,201 --> 00:32:39,361
Speaker 3: Louisiana according to the latest online RECORDS i can, find

550
00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:42,761
Speaker 3: it seems as Though Miles addison has moved away from

551
00:32:42,761 --> 00:32:47,521
Speaker 3: The Lake charles. Area he had a criminal, record including

552
00:32:47,521 --> 00:32:51,441
Speaker 3: some drug, charges but was pardoned by the governor in twenty.

553
00:32:51,521 --> 00:32:56,921
Speaker 3: Sixteen David, freeman the drug dealer Who kevin able owed money,

554
00:32:56,961 --> 00:33:01,001
Speaker 3: to was arrested in connection With kevin's, death but later.

555
00:33:01,081 --> 00:33:06,441
Speaker 3: Released he appears to be currently incarcerated In. Louisiana Laine,

556
00:33:06,521 --> 00:33:10,721
Speaker 3: Lebuff marty's, brother continues to fight for. Answers he posts

557
00:33:10,801 --> 00:33:13,681
Speaker 3: regularly on The facebook page Remembering Kk's.

558
00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:17,201
Speaker 1: Corner twenty five years, later the former.

559
00:33:16,881 --> 00:33:20,281
Speaker 3: Owner Of, Kk's Kenny, klin told us that for, him

560
00:33:20,801 --> 00:33:24,801
Speaker 3: the murders changed, everything and it seems like for a

561
00:33:24,961 --> 00:33:27,681
Speaker 3: lot of people in this, case the events of their

562
00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:31,841
Speaker 3: entire lives can be divided into two, parts before the

563
00:33:31,921 --> 00:33:38,201
Speaker 3: murders At Kk's corner and everything after a few weeks

564
00:33:38,241 --> 00:33:42,041
Speaker 3: after the, Murders Kenny klin sold the. Store he told

565
00:33:42,121 --> 00:33:44,841
Speaker 3: us he started a long care, business and he said

566
00:33:45,001 --> 00:33:45,801
Speaker 3: he's never looked.

567
00:33:45,841 --> 00:33:48,361
Speaker 5: Back when you're in the middle of, it LIKE i,

568
00:33:48,401 --> 00:33:51,521
Speaker 5: am you hear so much you start, Thinking, okay is

569
00:33:51,521 --> 00:33:54,721
Speaker 5: this tied? Together that tied? Together and this is just

570
00:33:54,841 --> 00:33:57,281
Speaker 5: very personal for me BECAUSE i like to watch this

571
00:33:57,361 --> 00:34:00,801
Speaker 5: crime stuff ON. TV i kind of believe in conspiracy,

572
00:34:00,801 --> 00:34:03,241
Speaker 5: theories you know that kind of. Crap certainly doesn't surprise

573
00:34:03,361 --> 00:34:05,801
Speaker 5: me if it's something like. That but there, AGAIN i

574
00:34:05,801 --> 00:34:07,721
Speaker 5: can't prove. IT i can't prove, It and AGAIN i

575
00:34:08,241 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 5: don't want to jump out there and accuse someone BECAUSE i,

576
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,401
Speaker 5: mean you, KNOW i used to have to come home

577
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,041
Speaker 5: and my wife KNOW i heard somebody in the grocery

578
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 5: store saying that you, know you knew they were selling

579
00:34:16,161 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 5: drugs and you were getting a cut of it and

580
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,761
Speaker 5: you know all that kind of, crap And i'm, like,

581
00:34:18,761 --> 00:34:20,761
Speaker 5: well you know, what sweet. Are we got out of

582
00:34:20,761 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 5: the store BECAUSE i just couldn't stand to go back in,

583
00:34:22,601 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 5: there AND i opened up lawn service and started cutting

584
00:34:24,641 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 5: grass in a hundred degree. HEAT i, REALLY i just

585
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 5: want to tell, you from the bottom of my, HEART

586
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,361
Speaker 5: i appreciate what y'all were. Doing there's two THINGS i

587
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,401
Speaker 5: want to know BEFORE i. Die number one is exactly

588
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 5: what happened To Kk's. Corner number two is who really

589
00:34:36,601 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 5: Killed JOHN. F. Kennedy so if y'all configure that that

590
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 5: first one, Out i'd be very very appreciative For i'd

591
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,721
Speaker 5: go to my. Grave i'm sixty three years. OLD i

592
00:34:42,721 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 5: sure like to know BEFORE i.

593
00:34:43,921 --> 00:34:48,641
Speaker 3: Deserve law enforcements say they are still actively investigating The

594
00:34:48,721 --> 00:34:52,721
Speaker 3: Kk's corner murders because the second killer was never. Caught

595
00:34:53,881 --> 00:34:57,001
Speaker 3: police have asked anyone who has information about the killings

596
00:34:57,401 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: to contact The Calcashue Parish sheriff's office at three three

597
00:35:00,601 --> 00:35:04,401
Speaker 3: seven four nine one three six, five or they can

598
00:35:04,401 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: call Crime stoppers anonymously at three three seven four three

599
00:35:08,281 --> 00:35:12,801
Speaker 3: nine two two two. Two I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is

600
00:35:12,841 --> 00:35:16,841
Speaker 3: Helen Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a

601
00:35:16,841 --> 00:35:19,921
Speaker 3: production Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written

602
00:35:19,921 --> 00:35:22,961
Speaker 3: and narrated by Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby.

603
00:35:23,001 --> 00:35:25,641
Speaker 1: Watts special thanks To Amy.

604
00:35:25,321 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: Tubbs for her research assistants And James wheaton for legal.

605
00:35:28,641 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: Review noah camer mixed and scored this. Episode our theme

606
00:35:33,001 --> 00:35:37,641
Speaker 3: song is By Ben. Salep executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon,

607
00:35:37,681 --> 00:35:40,801
Speaker 3: barr and. L. C. Crowley listen To Helen gone ad

608
00:35:40,841 --> 00:35:44,121
Speaker 3: free by subscribing to The iHeart True Crime plus channel

609
00:35:44,121 --> 00:35:47,601
Speaker 3: On Apple. Podcasts if you were interested in seeing documents

610
00:35:47,641 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: and materials from the, case you can follow the show

611
00:35:50,321 --> 00:35:54,721
Speaker 3: On instagram At hell and. Gonepod if you have a

612
00:35:54,721 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: case you'd like me and my team to look, into

613
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,721
Speaker 3: you can reach out to us at Our hell And

614
00:35:58,761 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four

615
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,241
Speaker 3: six one four five at six seven eight seven four

616
00:36:05,321 --> 00:36:06,881
Speaker 3: four six one four.

617
00:36:07,041 --> 00:36:13,161
Speaker 1: Five school Of humans