WEBVTT - Judy Collins 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.640 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.720 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan Runtog, But 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.399 enough about me, it's hard to know where to start 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.160 with my guest today. She began her sixty year career 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.640 as a folk singer, honing her craft and the Greenwich 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.520 village clubs that fostered the likes of Arlo Guthrie and 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.760 Bob Dylan in the early sixties. Since then, she's become 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.119 one of the most beloved interpreters are popular song elevating 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.600 early compositions by Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell into air 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.920 de finding classics. A brilliant songwriter in her own right, 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:34.640 she's used her one of a kind voice to champion 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.240 social causes and the endurance of the human spirit. Now 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.600 she's using her voice in a different way as a 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.200 podcast host. This summer, she's launched a new bi weekly 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.599 interview series entitled Since You've Asked. The show finds her 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.320 deep in conversation with an array of fascinating friends, including 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:56.040 Clive Davis, actor Jeff Daniels, Christiane Amanpoor, and many others 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.840 She's like in their chats to virtual dinner dates, which 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.080 allowed her to keep social in the age of COVID. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.080 The podcast is far from her only pandemic project. Earlier 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.840 this year, she restaged her legendary nineteen sixty four concert 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.440 at New York's Town Hall, the show that helped launch 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.360 her career. This time around, she played nearly the same 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.000 selection of songs, with her voice as strong as ever, 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.639 but one major difference was that the theater was empty 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.400 the audience tuned in the live stream. A live album 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.920 of the performance will be released on August. It'll follow 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.400 her latest musical offering, White Bird, and anthology of her 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.399 favorite recordings, bolstered with a few revamped reimaginings of some 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.120 of her classics, and she's also hard at work on 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.520 a new album of original material as well. Suffice to say, 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.760 she's probably significantly busier than you are, and as such, 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.200 I'm extra grateful for her time. I'm so thrilled to 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.520 welcome miss Judy Collins. Thank you. It's a pleasure to 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.720 be with you. I have so many things I want 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:53.400 to talk to you about, but I wanted to start 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.560 with your amazing new podcast since you've asked. It's such 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.400 a wonderful project to do in the midst of lockdown 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.560 I think you've it. It's almost like a dinner date 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.240 or a dinner party, and that really comes across How 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.120 did this start for you? Well, first of all, I 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.880 I love the zoom potential and I've I use it 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.000 all the time, you know, in in New York, my 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:17.280 husband I live here, and of course the lockdown started 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.400 and our we have normally we have a social life. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.800 We have dinner with friends a few times a month, 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.720 so we just continued that without the dinner. We had 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:31.399 podcasts with friends, and that went on, has been going 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.760 on and still going on because now there are some 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.960 people who have kind of been out of the city, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.240 so we do the podcast with them, or if they've 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.639 decided to venture out, we'll go to dinner with them. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.040 So that that very much has been My social life 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.280 is very important to me. I believe in the healing 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:55.920 and uh intellectually stimulating contents of discussions with friends. I 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.720 think it's it's part of the stuff of life, and 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.720 you if you if you were denied it, you can 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:06.120 wither on the vine. So that was that was going on, 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.480 and I think my manager and I were talking one 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.160 day and she said, why don't you do that with 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.240 some people? That you can have a longer conversation with. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.320 So we decided to start doing the podcast, which I 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.840 just love it. I think it's it's a privilege to 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.920 be able to to peer into somebody's life in a 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.919 more for instance. And I won't break this open entirely, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.480 but I did do a show a podcast with my 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.680 old friend Clive Davis, and one of the nice things 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.920 is that I'm not a client. I'm a friend. I've 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.840 known him for almost sixty years now, and so there's 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.320 a way to talk to somebody that's different than if 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.000 you're a client. And on the other hand, then my 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.800 own the head of my label, Jack Holsman, whom I've 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.560 known for sixty years too, and he's a very close friend, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.640 and I am as guy was it's client, and I 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.080 I have Electorate records, you know, started my life and 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.440 and so and so I know a lot about him 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.360 and he about me. So it's a different kind of 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:15.560 thing in both cases, but both satisfying, interesting, educational, and 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.440 a lot of fun. I was going to ask you 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.640 about the Jack Holtsman interviews when I'm really excited to 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:22.360 hear just because, as you said, you did go back 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.080 up such a long way, and he had such a 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.440 big role in your life and your career. Yeah, incredible role, 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.760 incredible role. Tell me more about some of your guests 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.320 so far on the ones that are out now we've 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.440 heard Jeff Daniels and Julia Cameron. Who else do we 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.320 have in there? I think Arlo Guthrie, I think is 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.560 one of them. Arlow is coming along and Arlo and 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.040 I of course I met Arlo when I first I 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:49.560 did my first New York show. It was nineteen sixty one, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.680 and I was, you know, in the old days, the 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.000 old days. When I started in nineteen fifty nine. My 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.960 first job was in Boulder, Colorado, at a place called 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.159 Michael's Pub, and it was a it was a pizza 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:08.239 and parlor and kind of a class you know, upper 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:14.320 upper echelon pizza parlor from from Tulagi's and uh the Sink, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.800 which were two of the real place where he just 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:21.000 got down and dirty drunk, and Michael's Pub was a 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:26.520 step up. And he had music. He had barbershop quartets 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:31.599 and accordion players. And then I had been asked by 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.320 my husband why I would didn't get a job doing 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.120 something I knew how to do, because I was doing 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.960 a very bad job at filing papers at the University 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.640 of Colorado, and so my father got me an interview, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.640 an audition at Michael's pub. This was so out of 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.559 the blue. Nobody knew that you could make a living 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.039 sing folks songs. I mean, there was no there was 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.599 no entrance that my father was a big star in 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.200 the radio business. But he sang Rogerson Hart and had 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.080 a great radio show, and that was a whole other 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:06.080 era of music, and so folk music was ridiculous, forget it. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.080 But I went down and I had an audition. I 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.359 played and sang a concert for an hour, and he 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.560 hired me. And so that was the start. And in 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.039 those days it was very much word of mouth. One 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.320 person he would call the place, and I'm sure he called. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.520 He called the Gilded Garter in in Central City and said, 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.760 you know, she sold some tickets and why don't you 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.919 try it? So I went up. That was my second date, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.479 you know. And then I went to the Exodus in 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.799 Denver and in between and then and then in about 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.920 two years time, after working all these clubs word of mouth, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.440 I got to New York and I was actually the headliner. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.919 I couldn't believe it. I'd only been doing it a 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.920 couple of years, but I got there and I found 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.720 out that my opener was a thirteen year old named 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.600 Arlo Guthrie. So that's where when we met, and he 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.560 was he was always so darling and charming. I knew 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.560 his mother very well because my manager quite quickly became 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.600 Harold Levinsall, who managed the Weavers, and Pete Seeger and 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:17.560 Alan Arkin and Theodore Bacal. He managed it seemed to 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.080 me almost everybody who made records, who made music that 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.200 was folk music, and Harry Belafani always wanted Harold to 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.080 manage him, but he had told me that he consistently 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.000 said no. I don't know why he said no. That 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.280 would have been a lot of fun. So I have 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.600 known Arlow all these years, and we've done all kinds 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.520 that We went to Japan together in nineteen sixty six 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:44.160 with Mimi and Bruce Langhorne, and we had a great 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.520 time there, and I sang at Arlow's wedding to Jackie, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:52.440 his wonderful, wonderful wife. I loved Jackie. She was a treasure, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.360 and unfortunately she died a couple of years ago, and 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.960 Arlow has been just a mainstay in my life. We've 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.360 done shows together, we've traveled together, we have in common 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.360 so many friends. So this past two years ago we 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.440 started working on let's do a big tour together, and 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.240 so we all it took a while, but finally we 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.360 got We must have had fifty seventy five shows, places 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:24.120 like Ravinia and and Tanglewood and you know the big 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:29.160 places of course, um Humphreys out in the West and 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.559 a lot of places. And they were all set up, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.400 and then the course at pandemic hit and he called 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.600 me in September. We had all these dates were they 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.440 were not none of them were canceled. They were just 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.920 moved into the next and then the next and then 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.840 the next month. And he said, I have to tell 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.680 you this because I don't want to tell anybody yet 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.640 until I've told you that I'm retiring. I can't do 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.199 this anymore because I've had a couple of heart attacks 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.800 and I just don't have this damon, and I can't 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.760 sing very well and so on. And I said, well, 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.480 you have to think about your health. So he said, yes, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.160 I do. And I said, I'm concerned about your health, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.280 but I think the best thing for you to do 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.160 is to not go out anymore and do this touring 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.199 that we do, which is you have no idea how 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.960 hard it is. Nobody doesn't do it, has any idea 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.520 how hard it is. But I said, meantime, why don't 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.080 we do talk together. I hadn't even come up with 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.760 the podcast idea yet, but I said, we should do 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.880 one of these talks. I did a talk for Carnegie Hall, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.520 did a series of interviewing other people, and I interviewed 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.720 my my friend Jimmy Webb, and Alan Cumming and Sean 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.480 Colvin and Steve Earle, and we all all four of 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:48.360 us talked together on a zoom show for Carnegie Hall. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.000 We did it probably in I said, I would say 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.120 June or July last summer. You can get it on 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.040 their podcast if you go onto Carnegie Hall and you 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.040 look it up. And the Carnie Hall President, a wonderful man, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.160 introduced me, and it was he said, he was introducing me, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.880 and he said, and Judy Collins has done fifty shows 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.600 over the years at Carnegie Hall. I hadn't known what 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.560 the number was. I knew it was an awful lot 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.160 because most of those early years I sang every year 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.360 at Christmas, which Arlo did. Arlo sang at Thanksgiving and 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.840 I sang at Christmas, and it was pretty much the 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.640 New York routine. You know, people would go to both 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.679 of our shows, so we had a good time. Anyway, 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.840 we had a just fabulous time with our podcast. So 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.880 that'll be coming down in the series very soon. I 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:38.800 can't wait to hear him with these people that you 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.600 have had these these deep relationships with for many, many years, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.800 the Arlow's, that Jack Holtsman's, the Clive Davis is. Did 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:46.600 you find when you were doing these podcasts that you 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.120 learned stuff about them that you never knew? Oh? Yes, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.360 I won't spill the means again, but I asked. I 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.160 asked Clive in the middle of the podcast, and it's 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.880 reveal you you do, you find out things. I mean, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.320 I found out how he got to to this this business. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.720 It wasn't through a musical uh connection. It was legal. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.040 You know. He went to law school and begin was 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.520 with a firm and they wanted him to go to 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.240 Monterey and represent some clients down there. I don't even 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:18.360 know who it was. And he was mesmerized and transformed 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.760 by listening to Jannis Choplin and Santana. That's how he 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.880 got into it. I didn't know that. And I said 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.040 to him during the show, I said, who was the 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.560 one who got away? And he said, you know, that's 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.320 a great question. I've I've never been asked that question. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.880 People asked me who I dropped and who walked away 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.680 from me, but they don't know. I never asked me 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.079 who got away. And you know, it was a big surprise. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.120 You want to know who it was. It was Harry Chapin. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.840 He said, your guy overbid me. Jack Holdman wrote a 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:55.760 bigger check. So that was funny. And of course you 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.120 do find out things. People's people tell you, things that 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.720 they would not necessarily say in public, or if it 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.240 was scripted, they would not say. And they're they're at home, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.160 you know, they're probably they're not in a studio. The 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.920 lights are not shining on them, so they're in their 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.320 living rooms or maybe in their bedrooms, and maybe in 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.640 their dining rooms. But you're intimately talking with them in 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.480 a way that is very free form. I'm sure you 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.160 find that you've done so many of these and you 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.000 understand that people are going in various directions and sometimes 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.120 there are a surprise. It's such an incredible privilege and 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.880 in such an incredible way to engage your your sense 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.760 of curiosity, to learn about all sorts of different people 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.000 and all sorts of different ideas. Do you find that 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.040 you learned something about yourself having done this, I learned 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.880 a lot about my own curiosity, absolutely, and also that 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:54.240 I'm I'm really I'll talk about anything. You pry open 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.440 those little doors and you just never know what's going 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.960 to come out. Really, and it's a good thing because 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.760 conversation is how we grow and learn, and it gives 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.840 us a balanced life, and it gives us an idea 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.000 of how the other side is living and own what's 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.000 what's what things can be troublesome and what things are 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.120 a lot of fun, And it's a conversation. Now. I 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.960 grew up in this kind of family because my dad 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.280 was in the radio business. So his radio show consisted 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.760 of his playing and singing the songs of the Great 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.359 American Songbook and telling about his life and reading poetry 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.680 and having guests. He had a lot of guests on 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.200 his show. Some of them would come home to dinner. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.920 George Shearing came to dinner and said, I think you 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.920 should continue practicing the piano Mozart instead of playing those 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.800 folk songs. That's what he said to me. I never 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:57.280 forgot it. It sounds like music was just in your 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.640 d n A. Was it always something that you knew 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.360 this was what you'd be devoting your life to, or 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.280 was there a moment when there was a lightning bolt moment. Well, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:05.840 I knew that I would be doing it, and I 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.720 did it the whole time I was growing up. I 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.959 always had music in my life, and I was playing 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.000 the piano, I was singing in the choirs as a kid. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.720 My teachers were wonderful, you know. I started music lessons 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:25.720 in uh We moved to l A in nineteen four probably, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.520 and my parents immediately got me a piano teacher. And 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.840 I used to in those days, you know, I got 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.200 on a bus at five years old with my music 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.200 under my arm and got on the bus and went 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.920 to Santa Monica from West West l A to have 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.640 my lessons. I mean, life was very safe, kids were 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.640 very safe people in general, it seemed to me. Of course, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.360 now we know that it wasn't so safe for a 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.400 lot of people, and there are a lot of things 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.360 going on that were so horrible that when the sixties 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.080 finally rolled around. I think what was most appealing about 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.000 the sixties was we finally realized how much we've been 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.800 lied to and how much we are lied to, and 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.520 determined that we would try to find the truth. But yes, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.680 talking and the kind of interviews my dad did, we're 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.280 very much a part of our lives. And then we 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.600 would all talk together about things around the table. That's 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.400 where our political education came in. I think I look 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.560 back and think about all the dinner table conversations that 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.160 we had as a family growing up and how much 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.080 they shaped me. And I realized that, you know, you 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.720 take them for granted at the time because you just 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.560 want to finish your dinner and go off to whatever 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.000 you're doing and go play. But it's amazing what you 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.880 learned from from those Yeah, play ball. I have to say, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.280 the show is such a perfect title since you've asked 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.400 which for anyone who doesn't know. It was a track 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.480 off of your album Wildflowers, and I think it's the 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.200 first song you ever wrote, right, It's the first song, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.280 and that's how they get you, you know, they get you. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.680 I sat down after after Leonard Cohen asked me why 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.560 I wasn't writing my own songs. I came home, I 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.160 sat down at my stide mooy because I've been practicing 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.479 for the various songs that were going on that album 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.560 in my life. I just wrote it. It took me 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.840 forty minutes and that was done. And it hasn't ever 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.920 been the same since. I mean, it never takes forty 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.720 minutes anymore. It takes. The next one took about five years, 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.760 but I was hooked. And so since you've asked, right now, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.360 I'm trying to write a song for my granddaughter's wedding, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.680 which is happening in a few weeks in California. And uh, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.840 you know, I thought, because a lot of people tell 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.960 me they sing since you've asked at their weddings, all 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:39.400 of their weddings, not just the first one. And I thought, well, 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.360 I can't do that. I have to write. I've written, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.080 I wrote, I've written songs for my own wedding, for 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.600 my brother Denver's wedding, for my brother Dave's wedding, for 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.080 an old friend who wasn't even a relative, so I 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.960 have to write an original song for her. I mean, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.320 there's no question, take my hand, who is your own? 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.320 We can solve the broken world together. That's the start 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.160 of what I'm writing. But who knows what will happen. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.240 Because I don't know. I have to start. I have 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.600 to work at it every day and try to write 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.840 something every different every day so that I can figure 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.920 out what's gonna make it to the wedding. That's just amazing. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:18.960 I mean, I hear since you've asked now and I 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.760 know knowing that it was your first song, I'm thinking, 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.320 I'm somebody who's who's loved music my whole life, and 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.000 as hard as I try, I've never been able to 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.480 write a song ever. I love it with all my heart. 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.760 I dabble in different instruments, but it's just it's not 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.000 in me. I can't imagine starting from scratch as you 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.880 do to writing something is beautiful and sophisticated and as 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.000 timeless as that song. I guess my question is, what 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.119 are your tips for someone like me who's sort of 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.680 struggling with how to start writing music? Do it? It'll 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:53.720 break your heart, sheer sweat, and it's a job. I 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.919 have a friend who writes mysteries who says, you know, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.480 writing is like laying pipe. It's you have to go 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.560 at it every day. Well, I'm just coming out in 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.280 I'm just about I think this week Wednesday or Thursday, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.280 I'm going out into the studio to do some more 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.080 final vocals on my most recent album, which is an 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.320 album of all my own songs called Spellbound. And it's 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.879 it will come out in in February. I think of 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.840 two and it's it's in part it's some songs that 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.199 I finished and or started and finished in the Pandemic 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.359 and some that I was finishing up in and but 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.280 I I have to work very very very hard at it, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.760 and I'm not sure that anything is as good as Oh, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.440 I know, the Blizzard is pretty good. The Blizzard, I think, 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.879 and since you've asked her, probably my best songs. The 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.639 Blizzard has to be kept in good shape because a 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.080 lot of my songwriting friends love it, and I have 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.119 to be ready to play it at the drop of 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.080 a hat. And I think actually that the next thing 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.480 is to get a movie filmed with with the song 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.119 as a context for the movie. So that's something I 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.560 need to pay some attention to because it is a 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.840 great story. It's sort of my equivalent of the Gambler. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.840 I have to say, I loved your song Dreamers is 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.320 an amazing I mean, for anyone who hasn't heard it, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:19.000 is this absolutely exquisite acapella piece inspired by the immigration crisis. 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.760 I suppose is the most simplest way to phrase it. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.040 Can you tell me a little more about about that song? 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.320 It is breathtaking. I was sitting here at the kitchen, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.919 at the dining room table one day and my husband 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.359 and I were watching a conversation on television with a 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.159 young woman who she said, and I quoted her, my 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.520 name is Maria. My daughter is a dreamer. She says 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.560 that she's worried that she will have to leave, and 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.280 that's the first line of the song. And I went 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.399 into the studio and I wrote it down and I 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.480 started playing it immediately. And I worked on it for 0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:01.200 about four years, sixteen seventeen, eighteen maybe two maybe nine, No, no, 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.560 it was it was two years anyways, playing the piano 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.520 and playing it and playing it. And we were in 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.600 Seattle and I was working at a club called ash Alley, 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.560 and my husband was out there with me, and he said, 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:14.600 you know, you really have to mix up your set. 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.919 You didn't really need some new songs. Why don't you 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.679 sing that new song you're writing. And I said, well, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.840 it's not I haven't figured out how to play it 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.520 at the piano. He said, don't play to the piano 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.120 and just sing it, just singing Acapulco as we say. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.600 And so I did, and I sang it, and my 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:38.680 name it is Maria. My daughter is a dreamer. She 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:44.960 says that she is worried that she will have to leave. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.560 And when I finished the song, there was this silence 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.800 that came over the audience. It was stunning. Nobody moved, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.919 nobody said a word, nobody clapped, nobody, this just this 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.720 absolute and then they all went crazy, and they kept 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.520 doing that every time. I saying it because I'm convinced 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.120 that when people are in an environment where there's live 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.240 music going on, they're going through a lot of things 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.959 in their minds that have to do with kind of 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:21.280 shifting their point of view and examining what's going on 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.720 in their lives and making choices that have nothing to 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.719 do very often have nothing to do with what's really happening, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:32.439 but it's something that's transforming because of the live music. 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.919 I think that's what live music does. It gets to 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.920 the brain in a subtle way and does the kind 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.200 of work that well, we like to think that teaching 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.399 always does that, but it doesn't always do it, but 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.919 music quite often does it. It's the silence. It's people 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:53.720 sitting in an auditorium that's hushed, where they're not on 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:57.520 their devices, and where no one is coming up and 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.080 slapping them on the backs and saying you want to drink, 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.560 but they're kind of hostage to the artist on stage. 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.280 I'd like to think of it that way. What is 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.040 it about music that you think makes it such a 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:15.920