Speaker 1: This is Me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening un podcast. You
Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are
Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the
Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor
Speaker 1: where you stand with on X? All right, everybody? Uh,
Speaker 1: first thing, I was gonna start off talking about how
Speaker 1: disappointed I am at Chester's job, of the how bad
Speaker 1: of a job he did it hanging up some things
Speaker 1: he was supposed to hang up in the studio here.
Speaker 1: It's horrible. He doesn't hang him up like I do. No,
Speaker 1: like they're they're they go together, but they're cock eyed.
Speaker 1: And then and then he allowed. But what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: talk about instead? Yeah, I mean the fray. It's a
Speaker 1: pissport frame job. But it didn't improve any with the
Speaker 1: hanging got good thing. You were in in Mexico with
Speaker 1: us because someone else followed Chester's grocery list that he
Speaker 1: wrote up for us, and you wouldn't believe what was
Speaker 1: on it. More so, what was we had literally stacks
Speaker 1: towers of containers of doughnuts. There's never been a donut
Speaker 1: on a media shoot. Ever, I donuts, man, Um, what
Speaker 1: else was there? Seth that was really out of place? Oh?
Speaker 1: Soda pop, multiple cases of SODA's. I'm like coach right now.
Speaker 1: And then in Mexico, we'll sometimes get to thinking I
Speaker 1: might like a soda water, but then I drink half
Speaker 1: of it and I just feel like going to brushing
Speaker 1: my teeth. Yeah. Well, when you're down there, you get
Speaker 1: caught up in because it's like the special Mexican soda
Speaker 1: that you they were, Yeah, you do get caught up
Speaker 1: in that. Instead, we're gonna talk about part two, so
Speaker 1: like it doesn't really matter to you folks, but the
Speaker 1: more episode. We've got more episodes up on Netflix starting
Speaker 1: uh February seventeen. February seventeen, four days after I turned
Speaker 1: a whopping can you believe it? I can been alive
Speaker 1: that long? Yeah, and you're still tearing up the mountains.
Speaker 1: I'm like an inspiration for old people. Yeah, you're you're
Speaker 1: doing good. I think. Uh. Five new episodes up on
Speaker 1: Netflix starting February seventeenth, and good ones, man, you know
Speaker 1: throwaway episodes Good Ones coming up. Um. I'm pointing this
Speaker 1: out because I like this person's name Sondra. How do
Speaker 1: you if your name is Sandra? What is your name
Speaker 1: Sandra Sonja? Yeah, I would pronounce that Sonya. Oh, I'll
Speaker 1: still do it anyway. I was mostly interested in her name.
Speaker 1: Oh you know what, there's this artist. Check this out.
Speaker 1: There's this artist. She's not you. You wouldn't freaking believe here.
Speaker 1: You want to talk about someone who's good at making art. Well,
Speaker 1: my favorite you know, my favorite artist is Seth girlfriend.
Speaker 1: So don't don't be thinking that that's not the case.
Speaker 1: But this Seth Plugger. What's her instagram? Yea, because I
Speaker 1: don't listen, I'm gonna talk about another artist. But this
Speaker 1: isn't This is meant all a rising tide, Seth, A
Speaker 1: rising tide lifts all boats. Yeah, see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like it's I'm being metaphorical for sure. Okay now
Speaker 1: this okay? Plug her ka underscore Ray John's. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: emerging as um emerging as the greatest wildlife artist of
Speaker 1: all time. Meanwhile, hot on her heels. There's an artist
Speaker 1: her on her Her instagram is Jamie Wild Art. Jamie
Speaker 1: Wild Art. She does these like things of dogs that
Speaker 1: look like it's like I can't even tell I'm not
Speaker 1: the kind of guy that measures art as being that
Speaker 1: it looks a lot like a photo, but like, I
Speaker 1: don't you know, but it's so weird, like look at this,
Speaker 1: that's that's a pencil drawing. It's like it's kind of
Speaker 1: like only when you leave it like unfinished, you realize
Speaker 1: what you're looking at. Anyways, she's offering to make me
Speaker 1: an art piece, and I've been telling her I want
Speaker 1: an art piece of wolves killing a buffalo, but I
Speaker 1: don't want I want it to be like actually with
Speaker 1: its guts hanging out, like like mortally wounded, but still
Speaker 1: on its feet, with one of them pulling at its
Speaker 1: intestines and stuff. And I said, I don't want to
Speaker 1: squash you creative, but that's what I'm picturing when I
Speaker 1: closed my eyes, and she's gonna try to work it
Speaker 1: up nice, I'll be sweet. Uh how did I get
Speaker 1: on there? Oh, sony, because Krane made those duck feet
Speaker 1: earrings with my little daughter wore around a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then our dog, your dog ate one of those.
Speaker 1: Like my pair of earrings is now earring, She say,
Speaker 1: more in line for like a guy with one earring.
Speaker 1: Did she swallow the metal too. We can't figure out
Speaker 1: she got it, and we can't find the metal and she,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think an X ray maybe in
Speaker 1: order because she's fine, Okay, I mean it was like
Speaker 1: she's weird stuff. She had a game bag once. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the what like, you know, the wires all hooked
Speaker 1: and were those from your speckle belly feet? No, um no,
Speaker 1: there there were. I think there. I couldn't. I separated
Speaker 1: my some of the speckled belly feet from the specs,
Speaker 1: and then there's a thing about not being able to
Speaker 1: transport that, so I left them there. But then I
Speaker 1: have also I also have frozen geese with the feet on,
Speaker 1: but I think if I defrost them and make earrings
Speaker 1: out of that, it's just not the same because it's
Speaker 1: like all wet and frozen and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's going to dry out the same way. There's not
Speaker 1: that much water and those things. Anyways, you're golden. I'll
Speaker 1: make another pair. Sonia Sondio she makes Kyote bacculammear rings,
Speaker 1: which you're great, beautiful, But the weird part of the
Speaker 1: reason I bring it up is um so she makes
Speaker 1: like kyote packerbone earrings but she points out that her
Speaker 1: husband does not. She kind of like spells it like trump,
Speaker 1: like it's all upper case, does not like these. I
Speaker 1: was like, why you can't even come up with one
Speaker 1: reason that Her husband went like, well, does it feel
Speaker 1: like is he like jealous of the kyo? Like I
Speaker 1: don't understand, Like what is he like does he feel
Speaker 1: that it's like emblematic of him being emasculated? Like I
Speaker 1: don't understand, Like what's not to like about it? No?
Speaker 1: I just think that, Uh, the same people that probably
Speaker 1: just get a little squeamish when you're just talking about
Speaker 1: pecker bones might get a little squeamish and uncomfortable when
Speaker 1: their wife is has a peckerbone hanging off her ear. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm always telling people they might need
Speaker 1: to get a new wife of this girl might need
Speaker 1: to get a new husband. When we're when we're coon
Speaker 1: hunting down in Arkansas, we should bring those pecker bones
Speaker 1: back for current so she can make some big earrings.
Speaker 1: Many I'll get my ears pierced if I had at
Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, oh man, that would be epic. I
Speaker 1: thinks Steve needs like a single piercing. Who's that dude?
Speaker 1: That used to do sixty minutes had that earringley Good job, dog,
Speaker 1: I forgot about you up there. That's dog during ladies.
Speaker 1: I'm just here for information. Uh, Clay Nucomb is going
Speaker 1: to be making a video for the meat eata dot
Speaker 1: com and how to make a raccoon vacuum makes it.
Speaker 1: He's gonna make a video about how to steal it
Speaker 1: from the radcousy, how to clean it. Maybe exactly at
Speaker 1: that point, you're just like a drill bit away from
Speaker 1: having earrings. So check that video out. I want to
Speaker 1: get into Clay's business and just make videos about stuff
Speaker 1: that's interesting to me. Um, you kind of do, but
Speaker 1: just like quicker turn, you know, a quick turn. Oh.
Speaker 1: We never talked about this last time, but we teed
Speaker 1: it up because I was talking about how I remember
Speaker 1: how like when uh who was it? John no? Oh?
Speaker 1: That like when Elvis died as Colin was supposy pack
Speaker 1: full of cheeseburgers, and um, we covered on this thing.
Speaker 1: We cat quite a few episodes ago. We covered about
Speaker 1: this thousand year old like a mummified a mummified carcass.
Speaker 1: There was a thousand years old from a man I
Speaker 1: can't remember wearing in the desert southwest, and he had
Speaker 1: had evidence of having um uh you know, a disorder
Speaker 1: that caused him to have this enlarged uh colon. And
Speaker 1: how I had two point five see what this guy
Speaker 1: had two point five pounds of what what? This guy
Speaker 1: doesn't realize. This guy is pointing out that that's not
Speaker 1: that bad. Two point five pounds a feaces and the
Speaker 1: colon is not bad. But this is a mummified colon, right,
Speaker 1: It's like it's just different. So it's not with them.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell it would weighed with
Speaker 1: all the moisture in it. Either way, what was interesting
Speaker 1: about this individuals They were doing some work on this
Speaker 1: and they realized that he'd probably died from this disorder
Speaker 1: he had, but in the final days or weeks of
Speaker 1: his life, he had been eating um grasshoppers with the
Speaker 1: legs and head removed. I believe so like the softer
Speaker 1: what's that part of a bug, the abdomen or the
Speaker 1: thorax off a grasshopper, like the soft part? Believe, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the upper part. I'm developing that problem with
Speaker 1: Spencer that I used to have with Rick, Like I
Speaker 1: feel that they'll know something yeah, but they don't. There's
Speaker 1: just a lot on the line here. If I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: I wanted to say, but I was waiting for I
Speaker 1: don't think special will go the lengths of like to
Speaker 1: hide the Yeah, he just like, yeah, he starts just
Speaker 1: digging a hole. If he doesn't know, he like. He's
Speaker 1: good at he's good at making you feel like that
Speaker 1: he knows. In fact, he might not know. Uh. This
Speaker 1: guy bad mole from this two point five pound colon
Speaker 1: was telling us that at the Philadelphia Mutter Museum, I
Speaker 1: don't know what that is. I trusted it's real. They
Speaker 1: have on display a colon of a man who was
Speaker 1: born in the eight hundreds who at the time of
Speaker 1: death had a colon. It was forty pounds forty pound coal.
Speaker 1: That sounds painful. That killed him. That would be a
Speaker 1: fourth Now how much do I weigh? I can't do
Speaker 1: the math quick enough. That'd be like a lot. That'd
Speaker 1: be a huge colon for me. That's terrible. You wouldn't
Speaker 1: believe it if the picture wasn't there, Like no, but
Speaker 1: it looks like a dried out because there's nothing for scale.
Speaker 1: They should have put a burger next to it. If
Speaker 1: they had a cheeseburger next to it, because right now
Speaker 1: I feel like I could be looking at a scant yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe like a like a one pound or even
Speaker 1: two pound ribby next to it. Yeah, well burgers like,
Speaker 1: but a burger is more kind of like a burgers.
Speaker 1: It's like a known size. Yeah, but we can put
Speaker 1: a river by by it. It's it's looking like a
Speaker 1: dry out nightcrawler. I think it looks like a coyote scat.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, like a crawler that got you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll get themselves caught up after a rainstorm. They
Speaker 1: come out and then it dries up. Well no, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're right, like when you find them at your
Speaker 1: dry wherever. I'm talking at too about how now and
Speaker 1: then one will get out of the bedding and get
Speaker 1: up around the lip of the worm container and then
Speaker 1: he'll get in a tight spot get all dried out. Um.
Speaker 1: Another piece of interesting feedback, a law enforcement officer rode in.
Speaker 1: We're talking about stacking charges on people. So we're talking
Speaker 1: about that that In a recent episode, I was discussing
Speaker 1: how there's like, for instance, there's a there's a prohibition.
Speaker 1: You know, states all have prohibitions on bartering and trading
Speaker 1: um wildlife meaning is technically illegal for you to say
Speaker 1: to your body like, hey, uh, I just caught a
Speaker 1: bunch of walleye. If you want to bring me by
Speaker 1: a backstrap off your buck, I'll hit choose the walleife
Speaker 1: fleas Like you're technically breaking the law. You're you're like
Speaker 1: formally bartering. Now. Were you to say to your buddy,
Speaker 1: I love you so much, Um, here's some walleife flays
Speaker 1: and your buddy says, by god, I love you so much.
Speaker 1: Here's a backstrap. Everybody's cool, okay, but it's like a
Speaker 1: formal bartering. And I was talking about how this guy
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, uh, an attorney in Wyoming, he's done a
Speaker 1: lot of work for the Fishing Game Agency, had said,
Speaker 1: the only time we ever hit anybody with that in
Speaker 1: some other arcane or not arcane, some other little known
Speaker 1: laws is one where really stacking a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: on someone like you got a real bad character and
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that something sticks on him.
Speaker 1: After plea bargaining and everything, you started adding on all
Speaker 1: these things that you'd otherwise never go and apply to anybody.
Speaker 1: And this guy writes in that he had this dude
Speaker 1: who became he had this meth head. Um, he said,
Speaker 1: a meth amphetamine addict. He says, what we refer to
Speaker 1: as a meth head who he even he even names
Speaker 1: the guy. Can we talk about this guy's name. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what his initials are. I just noticed his
Speaker 1: initials are BS. Not making this up. BS became a
Speaker 1: a C unit specialist, became a specialist at stealing a
Speaker 1: C units. In one night, stole out of an apartment building.
Speaker 1: Help me out with this, Help me out out of
Speaker 1: an apartmability one night stole eight a C units. M Hm,
Speaker 1: they were working the case. But you gotta say what
Speaker 1: he was doing with until it makes sense, is that
Speaker 1: he was pulling the copper like it was just the
Speaker 1: way that he figured out how to make quick money
Speaker 1: was to pull an a C unit, pull the copper
Speaker 1: from it, and then sell it. You know at that, uh,
Speaker 1: I guess some kind of like a salvage yard of
Speaker 1: recycling center, and then go buy his drugs, which causes
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars in damage, and he yields about fifty
Speaker 1: dollars in copper. Each one yields fifty bucks in copper
Speaker 1: said talking about not and I don't want to name
Speaker 1: these guys I went to high school with. I knew
Speaker 1: some guys in high school. The hot wired a bulldozer.
Speaker 1: Went to a construction site, hot wired a bulldozer, use
Speaker 1: the bulldoz. These guys, these dudes could take I thought
Speaker 1: it was before. I think these guys could take like
Speaker 1: a like a piece of heavy equipment apart. And as
Speaker 1: they take it apart, they would just throw all the bolts.
Speaker 1: They could take your truck like apart, throw all the
Speaker 1: bolts into a five gallon bucket. I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: taking pictures of ship. Put all the bolts in a
Speaker 1: five gallon bucket, and then turn around and put that
Speaker 1: thing back together the way they found it. Mechanical geniuses.
Speaker 1: They hot wire a bulldozer, stole a giant coil of
Speaker 1: coated copper cable, got a big ripping fire going burned
Speaker 1: all the coating off. Like at a point you could
Speaker 1: just get a job. I mean, like the model of
Speaker 1: like work and risk and stuff involved this guy. Uh,
Speaker 1: how much did they make off of that? Do you
Speaker 1: know remember what they made off? And that was like
Speaker 1: their endgame. This copper, the copper is valuable. So they
Speaker 1: went through all this and then had to burn all
Speaker 1: the coating off and burned all the coating off in
Speaker 1: the fire and had like a big black blob or there.
Speaker 1: Sounds like they're just the kind of guys that didn't
Speaker 1: like having a boss. Then it sounds like there's a
Speaker 1: there's a dude that got I was telling you about. Dude,
Speaker 1: he got caught poaching elk up on my hunting camp
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. He shot that bullet, scored scored four sixty.
Speaker 1: That doesn't even make sense that a bull could score
Speaker 1: four sixty. Well it did, I believe you. Um, you
Speaker 1: showed me the article. He was just doing it to
Speaker 1: cut the antlers off and sell him. It's like, why
Speaker 1: don't you just get a job, because you don't get
Speaker 1: to you don't have a job shooting out When did
Speaker 1: this happen? But burning copper? Coding? Like if you put
Speaker 1: to me like, hey man, I got a job for
Speaker 1: you in which you'll go shoot four sixty bulls or
Speaker 1: you can go make a fire and burn copper. That's true,
Speaker 1: but I think he's still sitting in prison for it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so this this officer starts working this case
Speaker 1: and he knows that when he gets this guy for
Speaker 1: stealing a C units, nothing's gonna happen to him. Keep
Speaker 1: reading this article, honestly, can help me out where I
Speaker 1: run into trouble. Well, he winds up doing. Tell everybody
Speaker 1: what he winds up doing. Yeah, what the guys in
Speaker 1: jail for. Yeah. He researches the e p A Clean
Speaker 1: Air Act and violations that he could get under it,
Speaker 1: and found out that, oh, let's see, this is which
Speaker 1: tall Kansas. Yeah, federal, he's charging with federal EPA violations. Um,
Speaker 1: now he's housing a really nice federal prison. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I missed the part of for what what
Speaker 1: the actual charge was too, But it's basically for releasing
Speaker 1: free on into the air. I'm looking at the article
Speaker 1: right now. Yep. Faces he went to jail for this.
Speaker 1: B S faces three counts of venting a class to
Speaker 1: substance and violation of federal law. Each count carries a
Speaker 1: potential sentence of five years, two or fifty and fine.
Speaker 1: And you get that it's sort of like when they
Speaker 1: cracked al Capone for tax evasion, rather than all the
Speaker 1: people that he had murdered and all the other things.
Speaker 1: It's like the one thing they could get him on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and O J O J ended up going to jail
Speaker 1: for stealing his own T shirts, like for stealing his
Speaker 1: own memorabilia, not for killing his wife and a waiter
Speaker 1: with a knife. I think an interesting detail is that
Speaker 1: this guy, this detective is from the Gang and Felony
Speaker 1: Assault Unit investigations. So how he ended up prosecuting this
Speaker 1: guy for a violation of the Clean Air Act is
Speaker 1: it's pretty Uh, that's a guy who's doing overtime. You know.
Speaker 1: The article said they still have like long term impact
Speaker 1: as well, because this is a common method among meth
Speaker 1: heads to like turn a dime. So they said anytime
Speaker 1: anybody's doing this now they're going to get hit with
Speaker 1: the E p A Act. Oh so it was a
Speaker 1: common thing. It's you and a C unit, That's that's
Speaker 1: what it made it sound like. Well that that was
Speaker 1: a whole storyline. If anyone seemed the wire anyone on HBO,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not the copper tubing. Well, the drug
Speaker 1: addicts and the wire steel a bunch of copper from
Speaker 1: construction sites and stuff to get drug money. I think
Speaker 1: I get Yeah, one of my favorite short story Collections
Speaker 1: of all Time is Dennis Johnson's Jesus Son and In
Speaker 1: jesus Son. Yeah, it's name comes from the Velvet Underground.
Speaker 1: You know when I'm rushing on my run and I
Speaker 1: feel just like Jesus Son heroin um in it. These
Speaker 1: two guys go and going to a house that's been
Speaker 1: repossessed by the bank and spend their whole day busting
Speaker 1: the walls out to get all the copper wiring out
Speaker 1: of the house. At some point, one of the guys
Speaker 1: wonders to the other guy who owns the house, and
Speaker 1: the guy reveals that it's actually his house. And then
Speaker 1: that night they have they go to the bar and
Speaker 1: they talk about how the drinks take so much better
Speaker 1: after a good day at hard work than like their
Speaker 1: normal workless routine. Um, what do you think, Doug? We got?
Speaker 1: How should we lay this out? How itch are you?
Speaker 1: How itching? Nowre you to go? How itch nowre you
Speaker 1: to tear it up? Or should we go into this
Speaker 1: other thing we got to talk about? You talk about
Speaker 1: whatever you want. Man, I'm just here for the the duration,
Speaker 1: So whenever you want to come to me, oh, I'll
Speaker 1: be here, You'll be You'll be here waiting. Um, you
Speaker 1: owe me one and fifty dollars. Doug, Yeah, that's on
Speaker 1: the way. Doug and made a four years ago, four
Speaker 1: years ago or some amount of time for over four
Speaker 1: years ago that Doug felt that that Trump wouldn't finish
Speaker 1: his first term, and I was like, I think you will,
Speaker 1: and Doug out all. I had it around the Mueller probe.
Speaker 1: I got all excited around the Ukraine probe. I got
Speaker 1: all excited around the attempted coup. And then in the end, oh,
Speaker 1: at the last minute, when he got excited about I
Speaker 1: got so excited when he got that excited he um he.
Speaker 1: I said, if you're that excited, Doug, let's throw down
Speaker 1: more money dogs like I need odds. And then I
Speaker 1: was like, I'll give it you to one odds. So
Speaker 1: Doug puts another fifty in and then on the last
Speaker 1: like the day before the inauguration, Doug he had some
Speaker 1: other thing about well, you know, it's always like I
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of helicopter mechanics they got down there,
Speaker 1: but and dougs like, you know, and I said, Doug,
Speaker 1: I'll give you ten to one if you want to
Speaker 1: add more money to our bet. If you're if you're
Speaker 1: at the point where you're bank where it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a helicopter issue. So now Doug goes me hunt for
Speaker 1: the bucks, which I need to use. I need the
Speaker 1: money because I owe people money for the bet I
Speaker 1: lost about I was I made two beats a hundred
Speaker 1: bucks apiece that he'd do a second term. So I'm
Speaker 1: waiting on your money to then turn around and send
Speaker 1: that money plus fifty more dollars. So I'm still in
Speaker 1: the hole on this whole thing. But I didn't make
Speaker 1: a thousand. I am looking to make a thousand bucks
Speaker 1: off pebble mind. Anyway, we'll come back to you, Doug. Alright,
Speaker 1: Uh K, Spencer, get into this whole thing. This is
Speaker 1: some interesting stuff, man. This is the kind of story
Speaker 1: that starts making gravy. You know, it unmakes gravy. It's
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of been that way. People were
Speaker 1: trying to have it make gravy, but then the gravy
Speaker 1: has rather than thickened, the gravy has thinned. Yeah. All
Speaker 1: uh on that point, like there can you keep it
Speaker 1: all in gravy terms? On that point. Before we started
Speaker 1: the conversation, there was a quote, um, from a reporter
Speaker 1: on this story that said, this is like a bad
Speaker 1: horror movie. It's missing a lot of plot points, basically
Speaker 1: implying that there's just not enough information yet right from investigators.
Speaker 1: So what we're gonna be talking about is a tragedy
Speaker 1: that happened on Monday on Real Foot Lake in northwest Tennessee.
Speaker 1: I gotta jump in, uh, Phil, you know real fote like,
Speaker 1: because we've discussed it on the show you a few times,
Speaker 1: and do you remember when you had to put in
Speaker 1: the audio of how on Real Foot Lake they have
Speaker 1: a calling strategy where you go I to call in
Speaker 1: Mallard's that lake. Is this lake? Okay, that's there, So
Speaker 1: we've covered is it. I'm guessing it's really popular then
Speaker 1: massively duck hunting. So just so fills up speed and film.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can put that that guy yelling back in
Speaker 1: again to remind people. M I I I, I'll interrupt
Speaker 1: the hundred more times, but now you're right. It's it's
Speaker 1: a historic duck hunting lake in the Mississippi Flyaway. Um.
Speaker 1: And when we're talking about the story, I think it's
Speaker 1: important to understand like a little bit about the lake.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read the description from the Tennessee State Park website.
Speaker 1: Real Foot Lake State Park is located in northwest corner
Speaker 1: of Tennessee and is noted for its fishing, boating, and
Speaker 1: wildlife viewing. Theft thousand acre lake was created by a
Speaker 1: series of violent earthquakes in eighteen eleven and eighteen twelve
Speaker 1: that caused the Mississippi River to flow backwards for a
Speaker 1: short period of time, creating real Foot Lake. So essentially
Speaker 1: the new badge of earthquake. Yes, this is an enormous
Speaker 1: water body with the average depth of six foot and
Speaker 1: it's just a giant flooded forest with a lot of
Speaker 1: vegetation on the surface and submerge cypress stumps. That ye,
Speaker 1: earthquake right around the war was right around the ward.
Speaker 1: Did you take the challenge when I asked you to
Speaker 1: discuss the botanist Bradbury? I forgot about it almost immediately
Speaker 1: after we hung up the phone, So I did not
Speaker 1: take your challenge. There was a dude, There was an
Speaker 1: English botanist that had come to America to do a survey,
Speaker 1: a botany survey of the American West. He another thing
Speaker 1: he was interested in. You know, people don't know if
Speaker 1: people know this honey bees are not native here. And
Speaker 1: this guy was interested in um check has checked in.
Speaker 1: His name is Bradbury. William was interested in that the
Speaker 1: honey bees were always like ahead of civil ahead of civilization,
Speaker 1: that they that that honeybees colonized land ahead of Europeans.
Speaker 1: But he comes out to do this deal, to do
Speaker 1: this big uh gather up all this vegetation and he
Speaker 1: wants to publish on you know, vegetation of the American West,
Speaker 1: John Bradbury, John Bradbury. He's got like an assistant with him.
Speaker 1: At some point he wraps up his project and sends
Speaker 1: the assistant home with all these trunks full of all
Speaker 1: of his samples, and he's got a fig or two
Speaker 1: he wants to get taken care of, and gets way
Speaker 1: laid by the new managed earthquake when the river flows backwards.
Speaker 1: Gets delayed by that and over this like changes his
Speaker 1: route home and tries to go down through Louisiana. The
Speaker 1: War of eighteen twelve starts up, and the guys like
Speaker 1: he doesn't get back to it. He's like two years
Speaker 1: late getting back. Now, if you're like two days later,
Speaker 1: you get all stressed out. The guy that gets home
Speaker 1: two years late. His assistant meanwhile steals his ship and
Speaker 1: and and publishes the piece she thought he was dead.
Speaker 1: I don't know, we should get him on the podcast,
Speaker 1: look him up, get him on the podcast. But did
Speaker 1: you can get one of those those mediums, one of
Speaker 1: those people that communicate. Did he contest it? Like, was
Speaker 1: he able to get it back? Is under his name
Speaker 1: or yeah? Something like that one on? But that my uh,
Speaker 1: that's why I was asking Spencer to dig in, but
Speaker 1: he forgot about It's really you would just tell me
Speaker 1: that flat out that you just she also chose not
Speaker 1: out to the research. I'm not gonna be rick and
Speaker 1: try to get in a hole here. You manage an
Speaker 1: earthquake river the Wilco has a song or no what
Speaker 1: Wilco used to be before they're Wilco Uncle Tupelo. They
Speaker 1: had a song about that earthquake go on. So what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you about this murder is just what
Speaker 1: has been said from the district attorney or what was
Speaker 1: said on the Back to the Lodge podcast. Now, the
Speaker 1: host of the Back to the Lodge podcast is a
Speaker 1: friend of the witness to the murders, So I would
Speaker 1: um lend some ability to what he had to say.
Speaker 1: He's he's a secondhand person and uh, I would say,
Speaker 1: one of the best sources within the first three days
Speaker 1: of this happening. Um, you're gonna ask me to clarify
Speaker 1: a lot of things or add more details and probably
Speaker 1: not gonna have them. Well, I would just like to UM,
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna lean away from my microphone after I
Speaker 1: say this. I would like you to cover the ways
Speaker 1: in which people, um sought to assign a narrative to
Speaker 1: this that would uh support certain criticisms of hunting on
Speaker 1: this lake. Okay, leaning back, So Monday morning, Yeah, in
Speaker 1: the date just because this is now, it's like February
Speaker 1: fift but it happened with January. Oh, what we'll do
Speaker 1: man later, we'll uh, I leaned back forward. UM, you
Speaker 1: can just put your updates. We'll put like updates or something. Sure,
Speaker 1: we we've been updating the story on our website, so
Speaker 1: as like even more information becomes available, you'll find stuff there.
Speaker 1: Certainly the story of change. By the time this episode drops.
Speaker 1: This happened Monday morning, January. All that was really known
Speaker 1: was that a seven year old suspect was sought for
Speaker 1: killing a twenty six year old and a twenty five
Speaker 1: year old duck hunter. Early speculation on Facebook and forums
Speaker 1: was that there was a dispute. There were local reporters
Speaker 1: even reporting that there was a dispute. Some said it
Speaker 1: was over a blind. This lake is said to have
Speaker 1: six hundred duck hunting blinds, a mix of private and public.
Speaker 1: Some of them you can earn by like being in
Speaker 1: a draw system, um. Some of them are like staked
Speaker 1: out for the season from what I've understood some some
Speaker 1: people said it was a dispute over a blind. Other
Speaker 1: people said that it was an argument over sky busting
Speaker 1: or shooting at swinging birds. The blinds tend to get
Speaker 1: piled up on this lake in a way that if
Speaker 1: ducks are decoying to one blind, somebody in another blind
Speaker 1: could have the opportunity to shoot at those birds before
Speaker 1: they make it to the hunter that's actually calling them.
Speaker 1: So that was also in the early speculation Monday night
Speaker 1: that was sort of like the accepted story that this
Speaker 1: seventy year old man left his blind, came over to
Speaker 1: the blind of the year old and year old and
Speaker 1: shot him for sky busting birds or shooting at swinging ducks.
Speaker 1: To his decoys and this UM. It was like it
Speaker 1: had sort of become a story of the culture of
Speaker 1: Real foot Leg. When you saw this talked about on Facebook,
Speaker 1: people were like, why am I not surprised? Like, of
Speaker 1: course it was Real foot Leg. I knew right away
Speaker 1: when I heard this story there's gonna be a real
Speaker 1: foot Leg. There's so many problems there with bullying and
Speaker 1: intimidation UM and conflicts between non residents and residents and
Speaker 1: guides and d I y ar is um that this
Speaker 1: is just a product that has been boiling up for decades.
Speaker 1: So that was like the early story of what had happened.
Speaker 1: We've since learned that it seems as though that's not
Speaker 1: the reality of of what took place. So what I'll
Speaker 1: what I'll tell you now is like what we've learned,
Speaker 1: like I said, from the District Attorney and the podcast
Speaker 1: UM where the host had sort of second and information
Speaker 1: year old Zach Grooms, twenty year old Chance Black, and
Speaker 1: fifty eight year old Jeff Crabtree got to their duck
Speaker 1: mind about six am. On Real Foot Lake. At nine
Speaker 1: or ten am, a boat approaches the blind. The person
Speaker 1: in the boat is the suspect seventy year old David Vowel.
Speaker 1: He asked if he can join the three hunters and
Speaker 1: they said yes. Boal then loads his gun and shoots
Speaker 1: Grooms at point blank range in the chest. What has
Speaker 1: been said on the podcast is that Um, the other
Speaker 1: hunters thought that they just witnessed a tragic accident. They
Speaker 1: rush over to Grooms and as they're like trying to
Speaker 1: help Grooms, Vowel then shoots Black in the side, killing
Speaker 1: him as well. So the seven year old has now
Speaker 1: shot the twenty six year old and the year old
Speaker 1: within minutes of arriving at their blind asking me if
Speaker 1: he can hunt with them. So now we have the
Speaker 1: seventy year old left and the fifty eight year old
Speaker 1: Jeff Crabtree left. Crabtree wrestles the gun away from Vowel,
Speaker 1: strikes him with the butt of the gun, knocks Vowel
Speaker 1: into the lake, and throws the shotgun into the water.
Speaker 1: The water at their blind was about waist deep. Investigators
Speaker 1: later recovered the gun and said a third shell was
Speaker 1: in the gun, but it was jammed. Um. So some
Speaker 1: have suspected that Vowel was also going to try to
Speaker 1: shoot crab Tree. Now in Tennessee or it is probably
Speaker 1: a federal law. I guess right, you could have to
Speaker 1: have a UG and you're gone. You can only have
Speaker 1: three shells. So that was his third shell. Um. Nobody
Speaker 1: has officially said that, right, vow was going to shoot Crabtree,
Speaker 1: but that's some early speculation that this third shell was
Speaker 1: jammed in the recovered show, did he have a if
Speaker 1: you had a semi auto, it just would have cycled
Speaker 1: on its own. I don't know. No, not a lot
Speaker 1: of details right now on that palm. Yeah, So Vowel,
Speaker 1: the shooter has been knocked into the water. There's two
Speaker 1: men that are laying there with close range shots from
Speaker 1: a shotgun. Crabtree loads them into the boat and drives
Speaker 1: away from the scene. As he's driving away, he looks
Speaker 1: back and he sees Vowel getting out of the water
Speaker 1: and walking towards the bank of the lake. And that's
Speaker 1: the last time that Vowel is seen. So at this
Speaker 1: point you have Grooms and Black that are dead. Crab
Speaker 1: Tree is alive, and Vowel is missing and has been
Speaker 1: charged with two counts of murder. They have not yet
Speaker 1: found him. Why was it that? Why was it that?
Speaker 1: When you know, whenever something like this happens, Like you
Speaker 1: just get flooded with text messages and lengths and whatnot. Um,
Speaker 1: what was all the stuff that he's like on the
Speaker 1: bottom of the the suspect is like on the bottom
Speaker 1: of the lake somewhere, or you know that he's probably
Speaker 1: not alive. Like what is that coming from? The weather
Speaker 1: has been bad in that area, Um. Like I said earlier,
Speaker 1: Real Foot Lake is largely a submerged or a flooded forest. UM.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff below the surface that
Speaker 1: makes it dangerous for boating. The lake has rised um
Speaker 1: since Monday because of storms. There's been wind and rain. UM.
Speaker 1: And his his boat was found two dred yards away
Speaker 1: from the scene, but Vowel has not been found. So
Speaker 1: Vowel left the scene on foot and because of the rain,
Speaker 1: the cold temperatures, the rising water, they suspect that if
Speaker 1: he's still in the area, that he's not alive. And
Speaker 1: that is a quote that the d A had. He
Speaker 1: had said there's no good way out of there. This
Speaker 1: from the District Attorney. It's a huge wilderness area. We're
Speaker 1: convinced someone assisted him in leaving the area or he's
Speaker 1: still in the area. If he's still in the area,
Speaker 1: he's more than likely not alive now. Like I said,
Speaker 1: within the first twenty four hours, UM, most folks had
Speaker 1: assumed that this was an argument that happened over the
Speaker 1: blind or over swinging ducks or whatever. And the language
Speaker 1: that the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation of Investigators investigation had
Speaker 1: used was that Vowel um has not been caught and
Speaker 1: he is armed and dangerous, which sort of like fuel
Speaker 1: that UM this that this was like an argument that
Speaker 1: happened on the podcast. A friend of Crabtree said, there
Speaker 1: was no confrontation, there was no fighting over a duck,
Speaker 1: there was no fighting over a blind. What did take
Speaker 1: place was heartbreaking, and that is that a gentleman Vowel
Speaker 1: who was going through something very very difficult and challenging,
Speaker 1: was not able to process what they were going through
Speaker 1: and that resulted in the tragedy on Monday. Now, the
Speaker 1: district Attorney has also been quoted saying, one of the
Speaker 1: first things we look for is a motive. Here. We
Speaker 1: don't have a motive. We don't see a motive. Mental
Speaker 1: illness may prompt a shooting or a crime. Perhaps that's
Speaker 1: what we have here, or there may be some motive
Speaker 1: that we just don't understand. Those were quotes that came
Speaker 1: out um yesterday morning, but then last night, um sort
Speaker 1: of like the information that everyone was waiting for to
Speaker 1: be confirmed. The d A said in an interview that Vowel,
Speaker 1: the seven year old shooter, has early onset de matia.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I take it they've been probably interviewing family
Speaker 1: and friends of Vowel. Yes, yep, and and Val had
Speaker 1: no criminal record prior to this. UM. I had read
Speaker 1: a quote from a friend somewhere that it said something
Speaker 1: like he wouldn't go as far to say a cuss word. Um.
Speaker 1: Not not that that doesn't make somebody cable of murder,
Speaker 1: but it's sort of adds to the this being a
Speaker 1: mental illness thing and and fueled by the dementia. That
Speaker 1: the d A is now confirmed. So the d A
Speaker 1: has provided like a lot of information. One of the
Speaker 1: reporters working on this story said that he's the most
Speaker 1: transparent DA that you could possibly ask for, and has
Speaker 1: been really good about communicating with people. But the d
Speaker 1: A also said that it's his job to not cloud
Speaker 1: the judgment for a potential future jury, So with that,
Speaker 1: there's probably some information or details being withheld yet that
Speaker 1: that we don't know. Obviously, law enforcement has has more
Speaker 1: information at this point. Man, crazy heartbreaking. Yeah, from Spencer's
Speaker 1: crime desk. Yeah, So this is all the information we
Speaker 1: have right now. Um, We're gonna keep updating the media
Speaker 1: dot com as things become available. Who knows, by the
Speaker 1: end of the day, they could have a body, they
Speaker 1: could have him in jail. We could know more about
Speaker 1: his mental state now. And another important detail on this
Speaker 1: is a lot of people have asked why didn't crab
Speaker 1: Tree shoot Vowel. Um, there were plenty of guns around,
Speaker 1: he obviously had like that opportunity to do it. And Um.
Speaker 1: The host of the podcast who had talked to Crabtree
Speaker 1: again said that the gentleman that survived this didn't even
Speaker 1: have the heart to shoot the guy self defense. He
Speaker 1: even tried to help the third party that has wanted,
Speaker 1: which is Vowel. He even tried to get him to shore,
Speaker 1: which sort of further confirms that there was just some
Speaker 1: sort of some state of confusion by Vowel when this happened.
Speaker 1: You know. Uh. An interesting thing about how it was
Speaker 1: handled in the how it was handled in the media
Speaker 1: would be that because there was no there's no no
Speaker 1: actual connection to these problems that people talk about at
Speaker 1: Real foot Leg, these like overcrowding, competition, all the tension there.
Speaker 1: They would like the articles would be like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: double homicide at Real foot Lake and then didn't have
Speaker 1: this sort of tone where like, oh, you know, by
Speaker 1: the way, a lot of disputes on Real foot Leg
Speaker 1: about blinds and who historically had a blind and now
Speaker 1: that the public land hunters are there and they're hunting,
Speaker 1: just to know a little something to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: That was how it was presented. Yeah, making the connection,
Speaker 1: but but the glue isn't there. Hey, this is Spencer
Speaker 1: new Heart And since we recorded this podcast, there have
Speaker 1: been new developments on the Real foot Lake double homicide.
Speaker 1: On January, the Tennessee Bereau of Investigation announced that they
Speaker 1: recovered the body of David Vowel in Real Foot Lake.
Speaker 1: According to the Tennessee River Valley News, Vowels discovered by
Speaker 1: a hunting guide in an area locals referred to as
Speaker 1: Grassy Island, a spot not too far from where the
Speaker 1: incident took place. Although autopsy results won't be back for
Speaker 1: a few weeks. Nick Barriss of news Channel five heard
Speaker 1: from sources that Vowel died of an apparent drowning. High
Speaker 1: lake levels from heavy rain caused authorities to temporarily halt
Speaker 1: the search, and District attorney Tommy Thomas said the water
Speaker 1: temperature was thirty nine degrees. This is a developing case
Speaker 1: that we're gonna continue to update you on. Head over
Speaker 1: the meat eater dot com for more on this story.
Speaker 1: I gotta follow up for how excited are you to
Speaker 1: go uh fishing with me on Monday? And why is
Speaker 1: it that your wife will not go? Um? And I
Speaker 1: told you that we would wind her and dine her,
Speaker 1: and you still said she will not go. I'm excited
Speaker 1: to go. My wife just is not interested in in
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing in general. To take offense when I
Speaker 1: said we'd wine her and diner um, and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: cool with that. My wife has zero percent interests in
Speaker 1: participating in ice fishing. Ice fishing off to call her,
Speaker 1: talk to her about what it's like to be out
Speaker 1: in the cold and dark huh at night fishing and
Speaker 1: how she might enjoy it. And you didn't even want
Speaker 1: me to give her a ring? No, No, I am
Speaker 1: I'm real satisfying. What you don't understand here is it's
Speaker 1: very cold and dark. I'm real satisfied by her lack
Speaker 1: of interests in participating because I would rather be zero
Speaker 1: percent than like, dude. I am not saying to trust me,
Speaker 1: trust me. I am not saying that she ought to
Speaker 1: be should pretend to be. I just was looking for
Speaker 1: a little clarification. I have tons of friends where their
Speaker 1: spouses or boyfriends or girlfriends or fiance's have like that
Speaker 1: third year, that forty interest in participating in stuff, but
Speaker 1: then they get cold, they get tired, they don't want
Speaker 1: to wake up in time, and it just like makes
Speaker 1: the experience worse for everybody. My wife was that way
Speaker 1: at one point. If we've been together for over a
Speaker 1: decade at this point, that at zero percent. It's been
Speaker 1: that way for the last five years, and we're both
Speaker 1: very happy with that. Arrangements. Speaking rocks at risk of
Speaker 1: fostering of jealous fractious work environment here, I'll point out
Speaker 1: that my wife got a nice set of earrings from
Speaker 1: Spencer's wife out of rocks he picked. They picked so
Speaker 1: the Karan and so it did to the field A
Speaker 1: pair Doug get ear rings over there, buddy, I don't
Speaker 1: but I uh, I understand, um and and sympathize with
Speaker 1: Spencer might sympathize the wrong word. But my wife is
Speaker 1: not interested in hunting at all either. I mean, she's
Speaker 1: an artist. She's just like, this is what I do,
Speaker 1: that's what you do. And um, other than the eating
Speaker 1: of it, you know, it's it's really not a thing.
Speaker 1: It can be a little hard sometimes because the amount
Speaker 1: of time that I want to spend at it, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, you're gonna go and do that. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go and do something else. But um, I guess
Speaker 1: we get enough together in this time. So but Doug's
Speaker 1: wife will garden circles around you, that's for sure. Doug
Speaker 1: didn't get ear rings, but I did send him some
Speaker 1: other rocks the other day. Oh yeah, man, And and uh,
Speaker 1: garnering all kinds of favor with me, Spencer is and
Speaker 1: and almost to the point where I'm forgiving him for
Speaker 1: some of his transgressions about Wisconsin. But but yeah, and
Speaker 1: they're probably displayed. I guess. I actually I posted a
Speaker 1: picture about about him, a couple of garnets and some
Speaker 1: petrified wood, and um, it's really interesting going to your
Speaker 1: mailbox and actually I guess they came ups. But you
Speaker 1: pick up this thing and Tricia's like, what is in here?
Speaker 1: I said, what's a bagger rocks? She didn't believe me
Speaker 1: until I opened it up, but there it was banggar rocks.
Speaker 1: You guys going rock picking on not yeah, Doug, not
Speaker 1: rock dogs, Like did we talk about this before we did?
Speaker 1: Doug heard rock picking. He got excited cause he thought
Speaker 1: they were going out into fields picking rocks to make
Speaker 1: a farmer's life easier. And he's like, that's awful. Nice
Speaker 1: to them dogs Like Doug, you know, doesn't enjoy rock picking,
Speaker 1: but no recognize it as something it needs to happen,
Speaker 1: and there's there's a great value in it. And actually, uh,
Speaker 1: the flint rock that we haven't here in in the
Speaker 1: Driftless area um in particular in our township, my father
Speaker 1: always referred to as Westford diamonds. So so I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to Spenser coming and picking some Westford diamonds someday.
Speaker 1: But rock hounding. You guys are going rock hounding on
Speaker 1: Monday before we fish. And then she's going on home.
Speaker 1: She's gonna go home, and I'm gonna get ice fishing
Speaker 1: and uh, like I said, are you guys going after
Speaker 1: bourbon again? Oh, we can't talk about that top secret. Sorry. Alright,
Speaker 1: SOE hit this deal. This has been sitting and this
Speaker 1: has been sitting in our art to do list for
Speaker 1: long ast time. Are you equipped? Because I'll see your
Speaker 1: name there. Um, there's this fella from Louisiana that rode in. Um.
Speaker 1: He's a archery hunter. Um he was. He had this,
Speaker 1: I would say, a hit list bucket. He had had
Speaker 1: his eye on for quite some time and had a
Speaker 1: bunch of trail camp pictures of it and tried killing
Speaker 1: it with no success. And then one day it showed
Speaker 1: up on his neighbor's trail camera with it's antler flopping
Speaker 1: to one side. Mm hmm um. His neighbor showed him
Speaker 1: the pictures and he he didn't think that it was
Speaker 1: the same buck that he was after until a couple
Speaker 1: of days later showed up on his trail camera and
Speaker 1: then he realized, you know, that's the same buck that
Speaker 1: he's been after, and it must have been hit by
Speaker 1: a car or something, and it broke a chunk of like,
Speaker 1: didn't break his antler off, it broke the skull below
Speaker 1: the pedicle. Um, so he had just had like a
Speaker 1: flopping nailer. And so the guy like it actually had
Speaker 1: like movement, like when it walked, it flopped. If you
Speaker 1: look at the pictures of yeah, if you look at
Speaker 1: i'm a saw, Yeah, it looks it's a nice buck.
Speaker 1: It's a damn nice buck. I'm sure, yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: sure it would flop when he would walk. It looks flop.
Speaker 1: He's probably painful. So he Oh my god, can you
Speaker 1: imagine man, having your skull cracked? This happened, this very
Speaker 1: story happened to me in Yanny. But go on, Um,
Speaker 1: so he like he he made it like he he
Speaker 1: really wanted to kill this buck to just basically put
Speaker 1: it out of its misery. Um, which I don't know
Speaker 1: if the thing would live or not. Man, they can
Speaker 1: survive so much. I've seen elk man, I've seen l
Speaker 1: killed up from broken skulls. I killed a wild hog
Speaker 1: one time that had broken his lower jaw clean and
Speaker 1: it had fused back together. Really I shouldn't say clean.
Speaker 1: It was so broken and fused up and whatnot that
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said broke it clean, look
Speaker 1: like a broke like I mean like broke the jaw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know why, I think I thought it was broken
Speaker 1: broken clean, because it healed at an angle like a
Speaker 1: hockey stick. And I was like, there's no way that
Speaker 1: would have happened if it had been Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Um,
Speaker 1: why are you looking incredulous when I say that? I'm no,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I trust you. You were there for the pig.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. So he made a liar. So this
Speaker 1: this guy made it is like personal mission to try
Speaker 1: and kill this buck, put it out of its misery,
Speaker 1: try to get it because it's a huge buck. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that too, but since it's suffering, he like
Speaker 1: really wanted to get it now. Um, he says, fast
Speaker 1: forward several days, he got his opportunity, made a fifty
Speaker 1: yard shot and watched it expire. Um, so he has
Speaker 1: this nice buck with a floppy handler. He wanted to
Speaker 1: get it mounted. Um. So he got it mounted and
Speaker 1: he had When he had it mounted, he had it
Speaker 1: put back normal, like like you know, the buck was
Speaker 1: the whole time that he was getting pictures of it
Speaker 1: and had all this history with it. Stupid, stupid, stupid,
Speaker 1: And he wants our opinion on that because he's getting
Speaker 1: a lot of flak from He's getting a lot of
Speaker 1: flak from friends and colleagues and just he says, even
Speaker 1: random strangers just as a knock at the door, Like, Dad,
Speaker 1: someone's here. I don't know who it is. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently people are giving them ship that people are getting
Speaker 1: because he didn't mount the bucks. Here are you? I
Speaker 1: got the grocery store. Somebody's like the guy, I recognize you. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's catching a lot of flak from for
Speaker 1: mounting this buck how it was before he broke his skull.
Speaker 1: He his argument is that he was putting it back
Speaker 1: into its state of glory. Listen, man, that was a
Speaker 1: huge mistake. I would put that buck mount out in
Speaker 1: the road in hopes that someone hits it and knocks
Speaker 1: it back to how it's supposed to be really yes,
Speaker 1: or I just hit it real hard with a bat.
Speaker 1: Why is that supposed to be that way again? Because listen,
Speaker 1: I've never got well, no I have. I've gotten some
Speaker 1: rugs and things. I've never gotten a shoulder mount of
Speaker 1: something made up but ever no, but okay, how about this,
Speaker 1: how about you get a buck. I've never got a
Speaker 1: shoulder mount what would it take for you to get
Speaker 1: shoulder mount well, when my I would like to get
Speaker 1: my eight fathers. He has a fawn, a dear fawn.
Speaker 1: He had a wild pigs, but that my brother took.
Speaker 1: He has a a little ship and buck mounted. He's
Speaker 1: got a bare shoulder mount mounted. He's got a pig
Speaker 1: shoulder mount mounted. I want all those mountains, but I
Speaker 1: don't want one. I don't like that. I think that
Speaker 1: I don't think they look cool. And you would never
Speaker 1: ever say you killed the state record white. I'd do
Speaker 1: what I would always do. I'd get the skull cleaned
Speaker 1: up and put it on my skull shelf. I just thought, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think they look cool personally, I don't think
Speaker 1: I don't want to like make it be back to
Speaker 1: how it looked. Well in this case, he should. I'm
Speaker 1: not like like like I'm comfortable with its deadness, right,
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable with his deadness. Do you know the painter
Speaker 1: um Tell's her name as painting skulls and bones and
Speaker 1: whatnot Southwest Santa Fe. You think she ran around painting
Speaker 1: uh dear looking all normal uh schools. So here's the thing.
Speaker 1: If I wasn't gona get one, And I said to
Speaker 1: the text and hers, oh yeah, if you don't mind,
Speaker 1: you just make them look a little bigger. Like the
Speaker 1: point is, it's how you got it. If you are
Speaker 1: going to do it, it's how it was when you
Speaker 1: got it. That's what you're memorializing. When you get a
Speaker 1: fish stuffed and they don't even use the fish. When
Speaker 1: you get a fish stuff, you don't change it to
Speaker 1: have it be like, you know, like, oh yeah, if
Speaker 1: you don't mind adding a few pounds on there, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like he must have been a lot bigger
Speaker 1: when he was spawning, when she was spawning last spring,
Speaker 1: So let's make her look fat. What was her glory?
Speaker 1: What would you do in this situation out of stuff
Speaker 1: that thing so fast, with that antler cocked over to
Speaker 1: the side. You know, you wouldn't have stuffed it. You
Speaker 1: would have just don't always do, and boiled the skull,
Speaker 1: and you would I like one would have like a
Speaker 1: four inch chunk of skull attached to it, and it
Speaker 1: would be quite Everybody would ask you have a story
Speaker 1: to tell a lot? Yeah, I know. In fact, I
Speaker 1: have a different way to look at it. We go ahead,
Speaker 1: Spencer in twenty I shot a buck in late December
Speaker 1: with my muzzleloader that dropped in his tracks. He didn't
Speaker 1: move an inch from where he was standing when my
Speaker 1: bullet hit him. What month December? He dropped to the ground,
Speaker 1: and when I got up to him, one antler had
Speaker 1: popped off, and he wasn't how you got him, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he died before the antler popped
Speaker 1: off or not. There there was a tight window there
Speaker 1: where I can't assess what exactly happened. So what would
Speaker 1: you mount it with the antler back on him? Yes,
Speaker 1: because that's how it was when I shot at it. Oh,
Speaker 1: all right, so it was when I shot at him. Oh,
Speaker 1: also a remy one time he shot elk and the
Speaker 1: fell over nailer fell off because it slid down the mountain,
Speaker 1: busted at antler. We're with him for that one, I
Speaker 1: do remember. Yeah, I'd be like, in my mind, you
Speaker 1: can screw that back on because it wasn't. That's how
Speaker 1: you got him was with his antlers. Now, what if
Speaker 1: you shot a deer saying like October with your bow
Speaker 1: and he runs off. You made a bad shot in
Speaker 1: the guts, he runs off. You know that's reasonable. You
Speaker 1: never find him until until February you find him. But
Speaker 1: by this time squirrels have chewed up his antlers. They're
Speaker 1: now bleached white. He doesn't look like he was when
Speaker 1: you shot at him. Are you going to restore him? No?
Speaker 1: But you know what the you know how I said,
Speaker 1: I want to get my old man's buck. So my
Speaker 1: old man he this buck was like not a big buck,
Speaker 1: but it was big for at the time, because you
Speaker 1: don't see like you never saw bucks had lived past
Speaker 1: their first year. So what we thought was an enormous
Speaker 1: buck wasn't. It was just I can't remember it was.
Speaker 1: It's like a white tail. He got it stuffed. Here's
Speaker 1: the dirty secret. There was a dirty secret. He told
Speaker 1: anybody about it. So the old man is sitting there
Speaker 1: in what we call the pine plantation on the Zlot farm,
Speaker 1: and the old man sticks a deer right below him. Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's no exit. The arrows comes into like into
Speaker 1: his back and no exit. Wound right in the lungs.
Speaker 1: It runs into the corn and he's like dead deer. Okay.
Speaker 1: In our tracking of that, we could never find a
Speaker 1: drop of blood. Were now looking back on it, I
Speaker 1: think that we basically were like sitting like sitting on
Speaker 1: that deer, sitting around that deer. But we just in
Speaker 1: the corn somehow didn't find it, even though we like
Speaker 1: circle all around it because the farmer then went to
Speaker 1: harvest that corn field and found the deer. Uh, my
Speaker 1: old man questionable or not. My old man took the
Speaker 1: head off that deer, went out, got the head off
Speaker 1: that deer and got a cap from someone and stuff
Speaker 1: the deer. And that's your city. Is in my mom's
Speaker 1: living room at the minute. I'm sitting here talking to him.
Speaker 1: She puts a Christmas bowl around its neck at Christmas.
Speaker 1: It's sitting there right now. So he did reconstruct the buck.
Speaker 1: He didn't recover that buck. But we know that we
Speaker 1: should have ended like we just missed it in the corn.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense we missed it. I later went,
Speaker 1: I was with my brother. We later went and looked
Speaker 1: at that buck, the headless buck, and I looked at there.
Speaker 1: I can see a possums tail wiggling around in there,
Speaker 1: and there's a hole in about four inches across. And
Speaker 1: I put my hand here and hauled that possum out
Speaker 1: by the tail and took a photo of it. In
Speaker 1: that buck and like over time all the details went
Speaker 1: away and it became like the old man's buck was it?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? But that like it became like,
Speaker 1: oh there was a dad's big buck. It's like kind
Speaker 1: of yeah, that's a whole another rabbit hole. I don't know,
Speaker 1: if we have time, I have a way to look
Speaker 1: at it. So he gets his buck mounted because he
Speaker 1: wants to remember it how it was before it got
Speaker 1: messed up. So you have a dog, right, and you
Speaker 1: spend lots of time with this dog, but for some
Speaker 1: reason the last month of its life it ends up
Speaker 1: getting sick and then dies. Do you want to remember
Speaker 1: that dog for the life you had with it before
Speaker 1: it got sick or the last month of its life
Speaker 1: when it was sick seth bringing the heat? I like it.
Speaker 1: Here's the deal man dog shaking his head on the
Speaker 1: big screen. So so the dog analogy is it doesn't
Speaker 1: work because this is the wild animal and uh, had
Speaker 1: that deer or not had its horn busted, that guy
Speaker 1: may not have gotten it. So that I agree with
Speaker 1: Steve on that, Yeah he shot him. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: if had had its wits about it, he may not
Speaker 1: have gotten it. I mean, the only it sounds like
Speaker 1: the reason he got it is because it didn't have
Speaker 1: its wits about it. Yeah. You know, I shot a
Speaker 1: one idea one time, and everybody thought that I got
Speaker 1: it because they had one eye. But I pointed out
Speaker 1: that it's good I was in my face, in my direction. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um so my taxidermist or the guy who does taxidermy
Speaker 1: around here is a friend of mine. When people ask
Speaker 1: him to fix an antler, he won't do it. He's
Speaker 1: like that he's got that screw. He said, Now, I
Speaker 1: won't do it. That's not the way you killed the deer.
Speaker 1: And then, of course the other thing is when you
Speaker 1: do get a deer stuffed, the only part of it,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's hide, but the the is the
Speaker 1: skull cap. So the ones I kind of feel like
Speaker 1: you do, Steve, I'll probably never get another one another
Speaker 1: shoulder a mount because they just don't look like the
Speaker 1: deer that was killed. Yeah, but the standard, the standard
Speaker 1: looks awesome, man. Well yeah, but it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: a deer that was running around. But it's a great
Speaker 1: piece of taxing. It's just an average buck for around here.
Speaker 1: Um anyway, Uh but uh, but he was big. I mean,
Speaker 1: his face and everything was bigger. I mean, when they
Speaker 1: do those measurements and they cut stuff off every deer
Speaker 1: that I've seen stuffed and that I was able to
Speaker 1: compare it to in life, they just don't look they
Speaker 1: don't look as good, they don't look as big to
Speaker 1: me at least. Here's the one way. Think what you
Speaker 1: should have said, Seth, Well, you should have said this.
Speaker 1: If I was doing what you're doing, I would have
Speaker 1: done this. I would have said, let's say you're married
Speaker 1: and you love your spouse like and you're married fifty years,
Speaker 1: most beautiful um spouse you ever late eyes. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to make this so it's everybody can appreciate it. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, spouse, most beautiful spouse you ever laid eyes on,
Speaker 1: loved her your whole life, him her, them, spouse, spouse
Speaker 1: and then they develop a heinous uh facial problem that
Speaker 1: kills him. Uh. They very much wanted to have an
Speaker 1: open casket. This is what you should say. They very
Speaker 1: much want to have it. Always had said when I die,
Speaker 1: I would like you to have an open casket funeral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the mortician comes to you and says, Seth, how are
Speaker 1: we going to roll here. I could fix it right
Speaker 1: back to her glory, him to his glory, or I
Speaker 1: can leave it the way it is. That's what you
Speaker 1: should have said, yep, not making some dog and then
Speaker 1: you would say, then you would say fix it, implying
Speaker 1: that this deer had said that he would want to
Speaker 1: be mounted right, had said to his buddies, he said, listen,
Speaker 1: everyone knows sometimes you don't make it through the run.
Speaker 1: Should I fall? I was doing general? Should I fall
Speaker 1: during general firearm? Let it be known. I don't want
Speaker 1: them when I said this happened to me in Yanni.
Speaker 1: This is embarrassing for me. We're hunting deer one time
Speaker 1: and I see a buck coming and it's in the
Speaker 1: brush that deep I'll never come out before I go on,
Speaker 1: brushed very much obscured my vision. I see a deer
Speaker 1: coming that has such huge antlers that there's actually antlers
Speaker 1: coming out of its chin, like so much antler that
Speaker 1: there's antler blow. It's jaw. I believe, I said, here
Speaker 1: comes a buck of a lifetime. Yes, But it was
Speaker 1: in fact a forky that had got hit by a
Speaker 1: car and one of its antlers had become dislodged. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just saw like times. Yeah, if there's a time
Speaker 1: by its chin, there must be ten. Imagine how many
Speaker 1: must be on top of its head. Hard to see
Speaker 1: in that rude But I'm telling you, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: have much to say about this. Uh this here talking
Speaker 1: point and story other than I feel like it's a
Speaker 1: little trivial and you know, we should all be so
Speaker 1: lucky that we can, you know, have fun talk about this.
Speaker 1: But like Bradley, I think you should do whatever you
Speaker 1: want to do with that damn button and all those
Speaker 1: people is tell him to f off. Don't worry about
Speaker 1: straight desk, right, I want to worry about the random strange. Uh. Yes,
Speaker 1: Spencer primed me up for this especial when I had
Speaker 1: a little chit chat the other day. W D. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are Um. I heard
Speaker 1: from Karin. I heard from Krin that you wanted us
Speaker 1: to not beat this one to death. You didn't even
Speaker 1: need to hear from Karan because you were also on
Speaker 1: the email. What I said is that through data on
Speaker 1: our website, there's a bit of exhaustion from our readership
Speaker 1: about c w D. It's hard to get them interested.
Speaker 1: So I said, there's probably a little bit of the
Speaker 1: same sentiment among podcast listeners. That's what the email said. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like you're sure, uh not filling Dug's bucket.
Speaker 1: Du During, It's very very important that we do continue
Speaker 1: to talk about it, even if it has been beaten.
Speaker 1: But what Spencer prime me on that, I had no
Speaker 1: idea that was going on, which is the exciting part.
Speaker 1: Maybe you should say this to the end, Duck. But
Speaker 1: I heard that Spencer it was basically calling out Wisconsin
Speaker 1: deer hunters, and you were none too happy about what
Speaker 1: he had to say about you, guys. Oh, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I mean, if Spencer's got evidence that somehow the
Speaker 1: Wisconsin deer culture is all about trophies and entering him
Speaker 1: into a record book, great, But um on the previous
Speaker 1: podcast he talked about that within uh uh and was saying, well,
Speaker 1: Wisconsin calls itself the big buck capital of the world
Speaker 1: and or other people call it that, Field and Stream
Speaker 1: or whoever calls it that, and uh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: because we have more Boone and Crockett, Pope and Young
Speaker 1: Books bucks registered than any other state. And uh and
Speaker 1: he said, oh, it's because people in Wisconsin are braggadocious
Speaker 1: and they want to be in the record book. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I know, well right, and being
Speaker 1: from Wisconsin and being willing to take a look in
Speaker 1: the mirror, you know, Um, I thought, well, you know,
Speaker 1: Spencer has probably got some real good information on this.
Speaker 1: So I asked him about that, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I never I've never hunted in Wisconsin. I only sent
Speaker 1: us spent an afternoon at a wedding in the state,
Speaker 1: So but what do you But I talked to the
Speaker 1: bride's uncle who's a deer hunter. So anyway, I just
Speaker 1: was like, well, I guess, um, I don't know how
Speaker 1: else you decide who you know, where the big buck
Speaker 1: capital is if it's not by the number of bucks
Speaker 1: and so you know, like that lion in Caddy Chick,
Speaker 1: how do you measure yourself against other golfers by height? Um?
Speaker 1: The same thing? How I mean, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you? How do you do that? And I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's there's a lot. I mean I love to
Speaker 1: have Spencer come out and and uh, you know, show
Speaker 1: him around and uh and I hope he does that
Speaker 1: and I can kind of show him why the driftless
Speaker 1: area is home to send so many big giant bucks.
Speaker 1: I I can see, do you, Doug? And I I
Speaker 1: will now refer to Wisconsin as the big Buck State.
Speaker 1: But I felt justified in our conversations because, um, after
Speaker 1: that podcast dropped, you were instagram messaging me, you were
Speaker 1: emailing me, telling me random strangers and uh, dog wanted
Speaker 1: that title, and UM, I felt as though it showed
Speaker 1: that there is that culture in that mindset there and
Speaker 1: taking pride in the record book sort of thing in Wisconsin. Okay,
Speaker 1: but that's not we're here to talk about. We leave
Speaker 1: it at that. A guy wrote in, uh, kind of
Speaker 1: laying in about kind of laying in about what hell
Speaker 1: is his name? Just give us first? I remember guy
Speaker 1: from southeast Minnesota. I don't remember his name practically, neighbors
Speaker 1: were Doug because Dugs from southwest Wisconsin. And that's an
Speaker 1: that's an important point where he is and where we
Speaker 1: are very similar in topography. You know, Dear heard all
Speaker 1: of that. So he he lays in, like, let me
Speaker 1: tell you about c w D. Yeah, And I knew
Speaker 1: in reading it. I was like, I just feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff he's telling me, he's not accurate.
Speaker 1: But I didn't have the time to get into it,
Speaker 1: but I felt it was like interesting enough that I
Speaker 1: wanted to. I was like, Doug, you'd take a look
Speaker 1: at the email. You read the email, and then Doug
Speaker 1: was supposed to explain what he's saying, because I feel
Speaker 1: like this is probably like a commonly held thing if
Speaker 1: you somehow don't know what we're talking about. We're talking
Speaker 1: about the deer and elk, the servid, the dear family
Speaker 1: version of like mad cow disease um which is spreading
Speaker 1: every year into more and more dear herds across the country.
Speaker 1: It's got people pretty worked up for two reasons. One
Speaker 1: because it could wind up potentially we don't know yet,
Speaker 1: being real problematic for dear populations. Um that they won't
Speaker 1: live long, you won't grow huge box anymore because they're
Speaker 1: all dying. Or that someone would want up getting sick
Speaker 1: for dear meat, which that from dear meat, which has
Speaker 1: not happened, but it definitely like keeps you up at
Speaker 1: night thinking about it. No one wants to be the
Speaker 1: first person. No evidence that has happened yet. Thousands, tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of people have eaten c w D infect
Speaker 1: the dear meat, but it's still like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just makes you nervous. So with that dog talk
Speaker 1: about with this guy take it. This is like Joe
Speaker 1: blow America out there saying like, here's why CWD is
Speaker 1: so full of ship and and and what does this
Speaker 1: sort of take on it? Uh. The first thing I
Speaker 1: want to respond to is I understand the fatigue. Believe
Speaker 1: me if I'd rather not UM talk about this either.
Speaker 1: But I can guarantee you one thing about chronic wasting disease.
Speaker 1: If you ignore it, it is not going to go away. UM,
Speaker 1: It's only gonna get worse. And we'll talk about that
Speaker 1: in a minute. So this guy had a few different comments.
Speaker 1: One of them was that there's no evidence that human
Speaker 1: humans have contract c w D from eating meat. Well,
Speaker 1: that's true. I don't think I've ever said anything else
Speaker 1: that there is no evidence at this point that it's
Speaker 1: that spread. So fair enough. But his reasoning was that's
Speaker 1: why they let you take the meat home, but they
Speaker 1: don't want you to take the spine and head home.
Speaker 1: And Uh. The problem with that thought process is that
Speaker 1: the reason for those UM transportation movement restrictions are to
Speaker 1: protect the herd, not to protect people. This is a
Speaker 1: wildlife agency is doing this, not a uh public health agency.
Speaker 1: The only thing that public health has ever said about
Speaker 1: it was we recommend you know, c C, C d
Speaker 1: C and World Health Organization. We recommend against UM and
Speaker 1: recommend you getting tested and you don't need it if
Speaker 1: it's positive. The carcass movement is all about protecting the
Speaker 1: herd in um where you're going to. So that's why
Speaker 1: they want to properly dispose of the head in the
Speaker 1: spine where of course the concentrated as well. They know
Speaker 1: you're gonna wind up dumping at that. You're gonna want
Speaker 1: taking those bones and it's not going into your freezer,
Speaker 1: right You're gonna you're gonna don't met the boat launch.
Speaker 1: So yeah, exactly popular if people are doing that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, right um. His second comment was meat doesn't
Speaker 1: carry disease, and he said, see above, you know the
Speaker 1: thing about that, let you take the meat. So what
Speaker 1: this dude, just what this dude was responding to you
Speaker 1: on this is I was saying like that, I'm full
Speaker 1: of questions about c w D, Like I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: not sitting around and act like I know something that
Speaker 1: I don't know anything that nobody, nobody else knows, right,
Speaker 1: I know what I read, um, and I read conflicting things,
Speaker 1: and I try to sort it out in my head.
Speaker 1: But I said, when I meet a guy who's like
Speaker 1: telling me, hey, it's no big deal, don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: I said, I would like to defeat. Make that guy
Speaker 1: a burger out of a bunch of c w D
Speaker 1: infected deer and put some brain and spinal column stuff
Speaker 1: in there and whatnot, and then if he eats the burger,
Speaker 1: then I believe that he doesn't think it's a big deal.
Speaker 1: If he questions eating the burger, then I know that
Speaker 1: he's like me, and he's a little worried about this
Speaker 1: whole thing. The guy that wrote in that I sent
Speaker 1: the dog pointed out, Um, that's why we don't eat
Speaker 1: the brain and we don't eat the spine because the
Speaker 1: meat is safe but isn't. Doesn't the ship like it's
Speaker 1: concentrated in the brain and spine, but it's found in
Speaker 1: the muscle. Right, That's exactly right. And so he's off
Speaker 1: on that. He's wrong on that, and there's a there's
Speaker 1: a study that shows that, and I guess, you know, logically,
Speaker 1: you can think about it too. Another PreO diseases me
Speaker 1: had cold is he BSc and people got that right.
Speaker 1: There was a jumped from cattle to um. They jumped
Speaker 1: from cattle to humans. UM, and that came from eating
Speaker 1: the meat. So it's in the meat and it's been
Speaker 1: proving this in the meat. So UM. I forwarded the
Speaker 1: study to to Korean and she can put that up
Speaker 1: or you know, I answered this guy directly if he wants.
Speaker 1: But there's you know, there's studies that shows exactly um,
Speaker 1: that that show exactly the opposite. And UM, the one
Speaker 1: that um that's still happening is the macaque monkeys. And
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna go, oh, the one that was disproven, well,
Speaker 1: it's it wasn't disproven. Actually two of the monkeys in
Speaker 1: Canada were fed only meat from c w D positive
Speaker 1: white tailed deer from Wisconsin. UM, that's an ongoing study
Speaker 1: hasn't been published yet. So UM, I would you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist, and I would suggest that you know,
Speaker 1: scientists talk about that more. And there have been some
Speaker 1: conflicting studies. So did the monkeys, like it was reported
Speaker 1: that they got the monkeys got c w D from
Speaker 1: beating dear meat, little chunks of deer steak. But in
Speaker 1: fact that's what they have. What happened, Yes, it is.
Speaker 1: There were five months that got it. Two of them
Speaker 1: had it injected into their brains, two of them were
Speaker 1: fed spinal common and or one of them was fed
Speaker 1: was injected in the spine and all that two of
Speaker 1: them were fed meat only. And who got what? Monkey
Speaker 1: got it? Those are the five that got it out
Speaker 1: of the all the monkeys and the monkey did get
Speaker 1: it meat and the meat. Yeah, I thought that was disgraduated. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: and that I mean, the reason I'm hesitated, I hesitate
Speaker 1: to talk too much about it is because it's an
Speaker 1: ongoing study. They there's nothing that other than the Montana
Speaker 1: there was. It wasn't Montana. I'm sorry, I don't remember
Speaker 1: who that was. But there was a conflicting or another
Speaker 1: study said, wow, we did the same thing and no
Speaker 1: monkeys got it. So that's not that unusual, at least
Speaker 1: in my sort of logical way and in animal husbands
Speaker 1: way of thinking about it. You know, my cattle, cattle,
Speaker 1: animals all together. Not everybody gets the same disease, and
Speaker 1: you know, not everybody necessarily gets COVID. Not you don't
Speaker 1: no matter what that is, right, So but now you
Speaker 1: can look into that and um, that study is ongoing
Speaker 1: and that will that will come up. So that being said,
Speaker 1: it has not been proven to transfer to humans. UM
Speaker 1: my only comment about like, um clean, Seth, we're both
Speaker 1: talking about that, and I've been there with Clay. I mean, hell,
Speaker 1: the last time you hunt deer hunted out here, we didn't. Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think we tested those No, no, we did.
Speaker 1: We did test them. And I waited to my results
Speaker 1: before I ate my dear, because I felt that if
Speaker 1: we ate the deer and then got the results, um
Speaker 1: my wife be like homett so you thought I saw
Speaker 1: it was like you saw that it was appropriate to
Speaker 1: send it for test, But then why do we like
Speaker 1: if if it if you cared enough to send it
Speaker 1: for testing, why do we not wait for the test
Speaker 1: results before we ate it? Like if it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: why did you send it for testing? And I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like explaining all that, so I just waited. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: and I think that I think that's a good policy.
Speaker 1: I respect anyone who is their their choice. Like Seth
Speaker 1: said he would, I'll eat that burger. Um, I will
Speaker 1: tell you this. I had a very different experience when
Speaker 1: I hadn't actually dealt with it, and Spencer has had
Speaker 1: that situation too. Like there it is. Um when I
Speaker 1: found out that I had a positive deer, it was
Speaker 1: very It was a very different mindset than talking about
Speaker 1: it in theory. Clay said that he hadn't had any
Speaker 1: deer tested yet, and they've been in an area and
Speaker 1: of course the same thing. I've been in a cw
Speaker 1: D area. It was quite a bit solved. But there's
Speaker 1: a chance that I've already that I've already eaten CWD positive.
Speaker 1: But why would you continue that when you have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to have it tested and at least make an
Speaker 1: informed decision. Part of this guy's point was I don't
Speaker 1: want to waste the deer. And my response to that is,
Speaker 1: you didn't waste it. You took that deer off the landscape,
Speaker 1: and you took that infectious animal who's spreading casting prions
Speaker 1: about and spreading it the other deer. You took it
Speaker 1: off the landscape. So you did a good thing there.
Speaker 1: And um uh, the other part is you saved that
Speaker 1: deer from a miserable death. I've been I've seen him now.
Speaker 1: I've seen not well, we've had pictures on the farm,
Speaker 1: but I haven't seen a live one that's on its
Speaker 1: way out on the farm. But I have seen him
Speaker 1: in other places. It's a miserable death. So you saved
Speaker 1: that animal from that. Um you know, you look at
Speaker 1: a picture. I don't want to go down the road
Speaker 1: of I mean, if if somebody wants to eat it,
Speaker 1: that is there, um uh their choice, and I respect that.
Speaker 1: I would say, though, let's not make that choice for
Speaker 1: other people. So if you're in hunting in a c
Speaker 1: w D area, get the deer tested. If you decide
Speaker 1: to eat it, go ahead and eat it yourself, but
Speaker 1: don't serve that unknowingly to someone else. And I had
Speaker 1: really questions um uh serving it to uh two kids too,
Speaker 1: So um that's that. Um what else did he have
Speaker 1: to say? Oh, dogship doesn't carry the disease. Well that's
Speaker 1: false also, and I uh said too, and I wanted to.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got a mingus U Yanni's dog holds
Speaker 1: a special place in my heart because he's named for
Speaker 1: and everything. You know. Oh yeah, I've never met the dog, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, because he's named for Charles Mingus anyway. Um,
Speaker 1: and why would you? I mean, it does happen. Right,
Speaker 1: there's two there's two studies, one of the coyote and
Speaker 1: and one of I think it was crows or something.
Speaker 1: And the point is is what goes in the front
Speaker 1: end comes out the back end later. We've all heard
Speaker 1: that before, right. So if you don't have c W
Speaker 1: D like around your place, and I've been over to
Speaker 1: Yanni's place, Um, and you feed that dog CW depositive
Speaker 1: meat and now it's going out and taking a crap
Speaker 1: and unless you're going out and picking it all up,
Speaker 1: and they never do. They never get all. The smart
Speaker 1: guy teaches his dog to go out far enough. But
Speaker 1: um and uh. And so now you have it there. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's in very low concentrate sations is going through the
Speaker 1: meat and all of that sort of thing. But because
Speaker 1: it is an exponentially growing disease, that's exactly the kind
Speaker 1: of thing where you can have some control of your environment.
Speaker 1: And why wouldn't you. Um, So I applaud Jani for
Speaker 1: that NFL it was just wrong when when it came
Speaker 1: to that as well. Um. Then he talked about, um,
Speaker 1: the low prevalence in Minnesota and why are we spending
Speaker 1: all this time and effort on it um and money.
Speaker 1: And the short answer on that is perhaps the reason
Speaker 1: you have a slow or low prevalence and a slow
Speaker 1: spread is because these management uh these management policies have
Speaker 1: been in place. In fact, I would submit that's exactly
Speaker 1: why they have a low prevalence, because Minnesota's got a
Speaker 1: pretty damn good c w D response plan. And if
Speaker 1: you want to see something in comparison um, one of
Speaker 1: the other things I sent Karin and I'll post it
Speaker 1: on my social media later too, is a time lapse
Speaker 1: of the change in spreading prevalence in Wisconsin over the
Speaker 1: last twenty years. And there are I have some markers
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily on that, but I'll write it into it.
Speaker 1: Of where we gave up Wisconsin's program didn't when they say,
Speaker 1: well they didn't see it didn't work in Wisconsin is
Speaker 1: because we stopped and all we're doing is putting you know,
Speaker 1: carcasses and a dumpster and we're not really even trying
Speaker 1: to control population or control disease or anything. We failed.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that you want to learn
Speaker 1: about uh c w D and what not to do,
Speaker 1: take a look at Wisconsin, Southeast southeast Minnesota has got
Speaker 1: the opportunity to control it. What I'm what I'm fighting
Speaker 1: for in my area is to have a healthy deer
Speaker 1: and have a healthy deer management. We're a positive of
Speaker 1: deer tested in this county now. Uh, we have their
Speaker 1: thirty thou deer in the county. UM you know about
Speaker 1: about got tested of the sixty five hundred that UM
Speaker 1: we're killed this past season, and those were positive by
Speaker 1: my by my place, I'm on the northern edge of
Speaker 1: all of this, we're down at like four or five percent.
Speaker 1: I get one a year or two a year, UM.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I don't want to give too
Speaker 1: much credence to what we're trying, what I'm doing, but
Speaker 1: we're killing a whole lot of deer and they keep
Speaker 1: making them, right, I mean, dear, keep making them um
Speaker 1: there and so ah, I would submit that the control
Speaker 1: measures in Minnesota has been doing is what's exactly exactly
Speaker 1: what is controlling UM the disease they're not And and
Speaker 1: I can see he's got that exponential growth. He did
Speaker 1: a nice job on the math UM and so take
Speaker 1: a look at that UM. But it's an exponentially growing
Speaker 1: disease both within the animal and on the landscape. And um,
Speaker 1: I know, folks are I'm sorry, folks, you know that
Speaker 1: you're tired of hearing about it. But if you don't
Speaker 1: have it, you don't want it. And if you do
Speaker 1: have it, you want as little of it as pot possible.
Speaker 1: I have that little, as little as possible. And so
Speaker 1: Spence Spencer new heart. He kissed my ass man. Care
Speaker 1: what he says. Listen. My take on CV, my take
Speaker 1: on c w D is is what I learned from
Speaker 1: Doug durn Articulated by Doug durn is, pay for science
Speaker 1: and time pay for science by yeah, sorry, I was
Speaker 1: gonna do it the other way around. I was gonna
Speaker 1: pay for science. Bye time, bye time, pay for science.
Speaker 1: I think that there's this thing that in the c
Speaker 1: w D to deny your community. It's like it's wishful
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like wishful thinking on their part
Speaker 1: or they're ahead of themselves to be like it doesn't matter. Look,
Speaker 1: the other direction doesn't matter. Nothing to see here. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I really don't know. But if
Speaker 1: there's the potential for a problem, and if it's a disease,
Speaker 1: that's spreading around. And if you love deer, and you
Speaker 1: love deer hunting, and you love eating deer, why would
Speaker 1: you not want as much information as you can get
Speaker 1: your hands on. It would be wonderful if in five years,
Speaker 1: ten years, someone is able to say, oh, look, weirdly,
Speaker 1: it winds up for all these reasons that seemed perfectly plausible,
Speaker 1: it winds up not having population level impacts, Like something
Speaker 1: happens within the herd dynamic and we don't see catastrophic
Speaker 1: collapse of deer herds and turns out, um, this this
Speaker 1: preon is somehow magically shaped where unlike similar diseases that
Speaker 1: afflict cheap and unlike similar diseases that afflict cattle, um,
Speaker 1: we know for a fact now that it can't touch humans.
Speaker 1: I would be like awesome, because that's what I wanted
Speaker 1: to hear all along. I'm not like rooting, I'm not
Speaker 1: like cheering on c w D. I hope it's bad.
Speaker 1: I hope it kills people. It's like, that's not what
Speaker 1: I hope. I just want to find out, man, I
Speaker 1: don't want to like look the other direction, which is
Speaker 1: what which is what seems to be what they want
Speaker 1: you to what what the deniers want you to do
Speaker 1: is like not even look. Okay, right, well you're bad
Speaker 1: for looking. Actually. Um. In defense of my friend from
Speaker 1: southeast Minnesota, he's like, you know, I'm not a denier.
Speaker 1: I know it's a problem, but it was a sort
Speaker 1: of relative um was his point. And and and I
Speaker 1: think that what I see and feel and and hear
Speaker 1: from people is that the denier the deny rs are
Speaker 1: few and far between. Now it's now a question of well,
Speaker 1: how bad is it or how bad can it be?
Speaker 1: And um, I kind of my friend Mitch Baker has
Speaker 1: said a few times that I'd rather we did as
Speaker 1: much as we couldn't find out we did more than
Speaker 1: we had to, then find out we didn't do enough
Speaker 1: and have a disaster on our hands. And again, if
Speaker 1: you look at that, um, And I'll just give you
Speaker 1: some anecdotes. Um, a friend of mine who's got a
Speaker 1: property about four miles south of ours killed, they killed
Speaker 1: a nuven buck on his place. It tested positive. If
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have killed that buck, it's never gonna be
Speaker 1: a big giant buck. It would have been dead at
Speaker 1: two and a half years. Right. His neighbor had four
Speaker 1: out of five bucks test positive. I routinely get messages
Speaker 1: from people who are saying six out of eight. UM.
Speaker 1: The hot zone south of US, about twenty five miles
Speaker 1: is over fifty in bucks, over thirty in does and rising. Um.
Speaker 1: We still have plenty of deer because we I mean
Speaker 1: you guys have been here. We grow deer like crazy.
Speaker 1: You know, one point four one point five does fawns
Speaker 1: per dough. We can keep producing. We have sixty deer
Speaker 1: per square a mile. UM, So we're not gonna run
Speaker 1: out of deer. We're just gonna have more and more
Speaker 1: of them. And we already have that that are diseased. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think I sent you another note from one
Speaker 1: of the members of our sea deck. He killed three
Speaker 1: deer in his yard this past year. That we're just
Speaker 1: standing there and that we're emaciated and went through all
Speaker 1: that is a horrific disease. UM. You know, animal rights
Speaker 1: people should be concerned about it. UM. Using my example
Speaker 1: of the of the number buck getting it, and he's
Speaker 1: never going to be a big giant buck. If you
Speaker 1: want big giant bucks. We need to control this disease.
Speaker 1: If I can keep disease in my area at five
Speaker 1: to even ten percent at this point, I'll consider that
Speaker 1: a victory. Um. And you might find this an interesting
Speaker 1: detail because you know, you guys know the farm up
Speaker 1: there on the big Ridge where you killed that giant
Speaker 1: turkey at that time, with with dirt myth down there
Speaker 1: and bottom, all five of our positives have come in
Speaker 1: a kind of a line right there in that little
Speaker 1: bit of acreage because dirt myth have been down there
Speaker 1: could but there happens to be a big population of
Speaker 1: dear you know that that kind of stay up on
Speaker 1: near there, and that's sort of on the fringe of it.
Speaker 1: So you know, the scientists that I've talked to about
Speaker 1: it have said, well, you know, don't read too much
Speaker 1: into that, but anecdotally it's it's really, uh, a little
Speaker 1: unsettling and kind of internet thing, you know. But that said, Um,
Speaker 1: we had, you know, it was a little weird deer
Speaker 1: hunting this year because of covid um and um, but
Speaker 1: my brother and his nephew came hunting for the first
Speaker 1: time in a couple of years, which was great. Um.
Speaker 1: We just did things a little bit differently in terms
Speaker 1: of gathering in the house and you know, and all
Speaker 1: of those sort of things. Um, and uh, you know
Speaker 1: we killed um like I said, uh, sixty three sixty
Speaker 1: maybe a sixty six hundred deer in the county. It
Speaker 1: was we're backed up like this year. Um, even with
Speaker 1: that positivity rate, you know that deer hunting in Wisconsin
Speaker 1: has a good future. We just need to do more,
Speaker 1: you know, we need to continue to do more about this.
Speaker 1: And I'm inviting as we're sitting here, I mean inviting
Speaker 1: Spencer to come out and learn all about it. We
Speaker 1: got a letter. We got a letter one time complaining
Speaker 1: about Doug. It was some dude and Doug's area complaining
Speaker 1: about Doug bringing down all the property values by talking
Speaker 1: about c w D too much. The powerful casing over
Speaker 1: your real estate lobby was like land ever since Doug
Speaker 1: buys it up? Man, Yeah, thanks, thanks a lot for
Speaker 1: the report, Doug. You'll be a hundred fifty bucks. It's
Speaker 1: in the mail, I mean truly is in the mail.
Speaker 1: And then you set cash. Is that correct? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah I did send cash. So, oh you have somebody
Speaker 1: out there written around in your mail. But I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit afraid of man. Yeah, he's gonna be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta run. You're white and i'd be there in
Speaker 1: the next day or so. Yeah, I'll just tell Katie
Speaker 1: that Doug during sent me a letter for some reason
Speaker 1: Steve's house. Don't open it, thank you, dog. It's interesting
Speaker 1: to me how we treat uh, we talked about CWD
Speaker 1: and treat it as I think as a society and
Speaker 1: look at very similar to how we look at climate change.
Speaker 1: You have that same sort of like deny or people
Speaker 1: that are like don't even look, yeah, don't even look,
Speaker 1: you know. But and I'm in the same way you
Speaker 1: described as kind of where I've settled on climate change.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but like I'd rather do too much
Speaker 1: and find out we did too much than you know
Speaker 1: eighty years down the line. Go oh remember all that
Speaker 1: not looking? Oh yeah, you you're you get criticized if
Speaker 1: a biologist talks about changing animal patterns, uh, which you
Speaker 1: know you can demonstrate with great clarity and precision. It's
Speaker 1: like bad that they brought it up. I think you're
Speaker 1: criticized for bringing it up. Your favorite like a favorite
Speaker 1: talking point amongst CWD deniers is like Wisconsin's management of
Speaker 1: it and how they didn't get rid of it um
Speaker 1: or maybe not even slow it down. But there was
Speaker 1: a CWD expert um that told me years ago. He's like,
Speaker 1: Wisconsin is not a good example because the c w
Speaker 1: D whore left the barn many years ago. Not only
Speaker 1: is that horse out of the barn, but that horse
Speaker 1: already died, like it was just too late to get
Speaker 1: in and make a huge difference. But other states, New York, Illinois, Missouri,
Speaker 1: they have a chance, um to like make that difference
Speaker 1: where Wisconsin didn't go out. You to to the c
Speaker 1: W to the denier's credibility, to their credit. Here. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's been around all those years, right, and Doug still
Speaker 1: has a big, huge, giant bucks running around in his place.
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe a picture of a buck he sent
Speaker 1: me from the wet spot. Yeah. Well, you know, just
Speaker 1: an average deer around here. You know, when the big
Speaker 1: couple of the world, but a little buck man juice
Speaker 1: down there and see what turns up. No, and and
Speaker 1: and that's important. I appreciate that. Actually this is the
Speaker 1: deer hunting is really good around here. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a reason people come to Richland County. And he's trying
Speaker 1: to drive you see her, trying to drive the values.
Speaker 1: He's trying to restore property values now. But I've acquired
Speaker 1: all that landed on building the back up and you
Speaker 1: know it's a matter of fact. Um. But uh. And
Speaker 1: the way to to uh, I mean, just keep doing it,
Speaker 1: keep enjoying it. And you know, this is an an
Speaker 1: interesting point. It's very different than what you guys are
Speaker 1: dealing with. What you guys deal with out there, But
Speaker 1: pent of our county is considered deer habitat mhm um
Speaker 1: and that's about um fifty uh square miles so but
Speaker 1: of that is privately owned. So if we're gonna do anything,
Speaker 1: really we need to either incentivize or force private landowners
Speaker 1: to do something about it. I'm kind of working on
Speaker 1: the incentivized end of it, you know. And and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I try to share my place with as
Speaker 1: many people as I can. Um. And you're right, and
Speaker 1: we still have big giant bucks. You know, there's there's
Speaker 1: some beautiful deer around. Um. Interestingly, also, most of deer
Speaker 1: that we've had positive The oldest one was a three
Speaker 1: year old doll. The other ones have been year and
Speaker 1: a half and two years, two and a half year
Speaker 1: old bucks, and a year and a half old dough.
Speaker 1: So you know our older bucks. I mean you remember, Yanni,
Speaker 1: the last time you were here with with all the
Speaker 1: all your buddies, all the Levians from from Tooma, all
Speaker 1: those deer man truck full of deer, including that one
Speaker 1: big giant buck, that the one eyed bucket, that another
Speaker 1: honest shot um, and none of those dear tested positive um.
Speaker 1: And you know there's those deer around. But that's by
Speaker 1: controlling the disease, we can continue to have that kind
Speaker 1: of hunting. That's the other end of it. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do all this stuff. You know, Steve,
Speaker 1: you and I've talked about oak management, and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to manage jokes. I want deer around, but I don't
Speaker 1: want too many. And it's the you know, these things
Speaker 1: are the same, the same, The reasoning is exactly the same.
Speaker 1: You know, we're trying to balance everything in an ecosystem. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know, if I could have have an inanimate
Speaker 1: object on the podcast, I would have the wet spot
Speaker 1: on the podcast. It's a magic place, like why are
Speaker 1: you always wet? Why are you a mud puddle? And
Speaker 1: why you always go look at you? And I have
Speaker 1: stilled that thing up. I have actually filled that up
Speaker 1: with clay and run it over and you know, packed
Speaker 1: it up because I don't want a bunch of waters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like a leopard. Don't change his spots. That's what
Speaker 1: he'd say if I asked him. What you might try
Speaker 1: now is instead of fighting, you know the wet spot,
Speaker 1: maybe just make your road go around the way. Watch,
Speaker 1: just move your road over ten ft and a pond
Speaker 1: in the road. Now, now you're gonna force me to
Speaker 1: go up there and take a picture, because that's exactly
Speaker 1: what I've done. What's what's the fifercent of your county?
Speaker 1: That's not dear habit? Is it like concrete and water
Speaker 1: or what? Um? Yeah, the highways in Richland Center our
Speaker 1: county seat. We have thirty deer in this uh county
Speaker 1: by the estimates in the population. The human population is
Speaker 1: about seventeen thousand. So man, uh Yanni. We didn't get
Speaker 1: our new dog expert. We didn't get to your you'll
Speaker 1: you'll you'll you'll retain. Yeah, we're gonna talk a little bit.
Speaker 1: We'll tease it. We're gonna talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: um blood trailing. Well, it's like a growing thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's been growing It's been around for a long time,
Speaker 1: but it just be gets more and more prevalent. Is
Speaker 1: like every group of hunters. My prediction is in in
Speaker 1: some number of years, every group of hunters, someone in
Speaker 1: that group it's gonna want to have a recovery dog.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I was just thinking how when I first
Speaker 1: heard about it, nobody that I didn't even know anybody
Speaker 1: that had maybe even like use the recovery dog to
Speaker 1: find a wounded deer. It was just like, you know
Speaker 1: this thing that you kind of heard about. But now
Speaker 1: I would almost bet someone in this room has used
Speaker 1: recovery dog to find a deer. Anybody I've been, I've
Speaker 1: seen one not recover one. Yeah, we attempted in Michigan. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like I know people now they're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, and he's got all kinds of stats we're
Speaker 1: going to get at. But uh, I gotta I gotta scoop,
Speaker 1: I gotta scoot al right, buddy, thanks a lot um
Speaker 1: appreciate it, Seth. It's a good job. I want to get, man,
Speaker 1: I want to get Do you think it'd be too distracting?
Speaker 1: Like when someone like when Seth talking about what he
Speaker 1: was talking about, Remember how I said, I wanted one
Speaker 1: of those dials that they use when they're testing things
Speaker 1: on people. Yeah, like how the the how their their
Speaker 1: interests dial? Yeah, if we had if when like if
Speaker 1: Seth was talking about something, if we had one that
Speaker 1: that was like a low like but then as he talks,
Speaker 1: if I get more interests, I turned it up and
Speaker 1: then it pretty soon like do you do that would
Speaker 1: detract from the listening experience. Unfortunately, yes, it could be
Speaker 1: that the better job he does, you turn it down
Speaker 1: so like so when he starts out, when he starts,
Speaker 1: but as he starts kicking ass it quiet and he
Speaker 1: starts getting pumped up in senive to kick as exactly.
Speaker 1: But you know, he did a good He did a
Speaker 1: good job on that, especially like the part when he
Speaker 1: tried to turn it into a dog thing. Uh huh.
Speaker 1: Doug was right to compreciate that it was good. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't hear that, Seth. What did you
Speaker 1: say about dog? Just good? That was philm talking about
Speaker 1: dog a great looking Just like when somebody says Doug
Speaker 1: is right, I usually asked him. He's like what what what? Alright,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentleman, Doug durn far away and a far
Speaker 1: away disease land. Hey have me on for something that
Speaker 1: isn't c w D. Sometime I might do that dog anytime. Dog,
Speaker 1: we have dog on to talk about how to properly
Speaker 1: get your cheese curd squeaky again if you've left them
Speaker 1: out so long that they're not squeaky anymore, that'll be
Speaker 1: dog on curd. Stay tuned