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Speaker 1: It's gonna be June nine through in Daniapolis at the JW. Marriott.

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Speaker 1: So join us crime Con dot com and sideways twenty

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Speaker 1: is that code for you to get off? And thanks?

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways I don't know still is and things to

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Speaker 1: be simply don't know the answa to Well, Hi there

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Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Joe, joined this week as always by Devon

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Speaker 1: and Steve, and of course, as usual, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about another really awesome mystery. Yeah yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: I sort of poaching on Steve's territory. Here, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about a crashed airplane. That's usually that's usually what

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Speaker 1: Steve does our airplane mysteries. But you take boats, I

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Speaker 1: take airplanes. You do this all right? The field is open.

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Speaker 1: Next week sinking a ship? Yeah, I think he's going

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Speaker 1: to cover a submarine mystery. You're going to think a ship. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. Okay, yeah, that is our mystery.

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Speaker 1: What sect that aircraft carry? Your next week? Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: back to our mystery here. Our plane that crashed was

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Speaker 1: a World War two vintage C forty seven Dakota airplane.

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Speaker 1: Dakota was actually known as also the Skytrain, which is

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Speaker 1: an awesome name. Skytrain, Skytrain, sky Tree Okay, sorry, sorry

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Speaker 1: lost it? Where was I? Okay? So, but then the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Government gave about two thousands of these things to the

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Speaker 1: to the British and also the Commonwealth countries during World

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Speaker 1: War Two on the Least program, and for some reason,

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Speaker 1: those planes, which as far as I know, we're the same,

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Speaker 1: got renamed the Dakota, which is nothing against Dakota. That's

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Speaker 1: a cool name too, but not quite as awesome as skytrain.

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Speaker 1: You did you see how they think that came about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was actually an acronym country condensation of

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Speaker 1: some other words. Yeah. Yeah, so, but anyway, we don't care.

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Speaker 1: It's a Dakota. Well that's good enough. Our plane crashed

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Speaker 1: not too long after takeoff. I'm thinking a couple of minutes,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little more, in November nineteen seventy three. And

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Speaker 1: it was not just any old plane. It was a

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Speaker 1: spy plane. That's why you're doing this, because it's got

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Speaker 1: spy in it. Oh no, wait a second, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I just read there it's a spy plants okay, and

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Speaker 1: and okay, spy plane. Ah. And then it was code

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Speaker 1: named ARGO sixteen, which I think is kind of a

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Speaker 1: cool name. I like the Argo sixteen. But that's that

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Speaker 1: really was his code name. It's definitely not that Ben

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Speaker 1: Affleck movie. No, it's not Argo. Different thing, entirely different

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Speaker 1: part of the world. Even Yeah, it's not that far

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Speaker 1: away from Iran. Yeah, okay, but like I said, it

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Speaker 1: was a spy plane. It was operated by the Italian

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Speaker 1: s i D, which is short for Military Intelligence and

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Speaker 1: Security Service in English and something else. They use different

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Speaker 1: words in Italian for some reason. Yeah, I don't get

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Speaker 1: that but alright, but also by the CIA. Apparently it's

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Speaker 1: some sort of joint product project. Apparently it also had

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Speaker 1: a multitude of various black out missions, but its primary

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Speaker 1: purpose was essentially to be a big flying radar detector,

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Speaker 1: at least ostensibly if I can steal the word from you, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, as long as you're using it correctly exactly.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, it's mission on November twenty three, nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three was to fly up and down the coast of

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Speaker 1: Yugoslavia over the Adriatic Sea, monitoring radar emissions. And I'll

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Speaker 1: leave it. I'm sure we have at least one spook

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Speaker 1: listening to to us. He's gonna email and correct me

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Speaker 1: on this. But essentially, what these planes do is they

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Speaker 1: want to know about changes in radar behavior. So if

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Speaker 1: there's a flurry of activity, well maybe that means something

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Speaker 1: we can try to like suss that out. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: they're building new radar installations, Well maybe that means something too.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're building an airbase somewhere and god knows what,

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Speaker 1: and best of all, a whole new type of radar.

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Speaker 1: Uh if they detect one of those, like let's say

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Speaker 1: they installed a new Soviet air defense system for example,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna have a radar that's gonna be attached to it.

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Speaker 1: NATO is probably gonna want to know about that, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And of course they're gonna want to test the radar,

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Speaker 1: and really they have to. And of course you want

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Speaker 1: to have an asset somewhere, whether it's a plane, submarines, something,

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things submarines don't do. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize that is they just hang

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Speaker 1: out on detected off enemy shores and just sniff radars

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Just chill underwater, I just search, chill,

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Speaker 1: I keep an eye on things and just see what,

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Speaker 1: you know, what radars they're lighting up and whatnot. But

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Speaker 1: according to what I've heard, Argo sixteen was a little

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Speaker 1: bit more than the radar detector. Uh, it did some

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Speaker 1: other special ops missions. And it makes a little bit

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Speaker 1: of sense because you can't do the same thing every

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Speaker 1: day with a spy plane, because then the Yugoslavians get

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Speaker 1: used to the idea that Argo sixteen is going to

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Speaker 1: be hanging out off its shores between the hours of

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Speaker 1: two and five pm every day. Yeah, and so well,

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Speaker 1: they're just not gonna send you anything useful if you

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Speaker 1: do that, So you gotta mix it up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: or they're gonna spoof you even worse. They can do

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Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, So so they mix it up a

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Speaker 1: little bit for Urgo sixteen apparently, And so it was

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Speaker 1: sent out out missions to transport armaments, ferried special ops

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Speaker 1: guys around Italy, and it gave the occasional PFLP terrorist

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Speaker 1: a ride to Libya. But more on that later. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna ask what is PFLP And actually, uh, PFLP has

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Speaker 1: prop Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestines PLO. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They sort of became affiliated with the pl later. It's

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Speaker 1: a complicated Okay, Yeah, that whole area is really complicated,

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Speaker 1: And I know I'm probably gonna pepper you with a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of questions. Yeah, I didn't even know if

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Speaker 1: the p f LP is still around. Actually, Devin, what's question?

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Speaker 1: Are they actual terrorists like operating outside of the log suicide? Yah?

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Speaker 1: The PFLP was, Are they like warfare? They were more

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Speaker 1: more terrorists. They were they were sort of oriented towards

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Speaker 1: hijacking airplanes. I would say that compared to what we

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Speaker 1: call terrorists today, they were they were pretty civilized, but

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Speaker 1: still created terror to inflict gentleman, Yeah, to achieve a goal.

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Speaker 1: They I just wanted to make sure that we weren't.

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Speaker 1: But like, for example, they hijacked four planes in September

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Speaker 1: nine seventy, which I might mentioned a little bit later on,

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Speaker 1: the hijacked from Europe, took him to Jordan and parked

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Speaker 1: him in this this desert airfield called Dawson Field, where

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Speaker 1: they let most of them go, left about sixty of

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Speaker 1: them hostage for a long time, and uh and then

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Speaker 1: eventually evacuated them, blew the planes up. And this was

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Speaker 1: a huge, huge deal. I mean, this was considered you know,

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Speaker 1: ultra horrible terrorism, but all the hostages eventually eventually were

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Speaker 1: released unharmed, and so by the standards of today, well

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Speaker 1: that was pretty damn civilized. Room. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: nobody got killed. I just wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we weren't just calling you know, we were that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Well they were certainly called terrorists at the time, but

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Speaker 1: you know, but they almost make me nostalgic for the

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Speaker 1: old days of terrorism, to be honest with you. Okay, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well anyway, so our back to Urgust sixteen, it was

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Speaker 1: based in Italy. I have a question, Joe, Yeah, why

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Speaker 1: is the script? Have a question for me to ask?

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Speaker 1: What is Italy? Yeah, there you go. It's a place

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Speaker 1: where they keep the Italians, some of us have escaped. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh so Italy is a country on the south side

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Speaker 1: of Europe. It smells like a boot like I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I misread the script. I'm sorry. Okay, So it's shaped

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Speaker 1: like a boot. Okay, So that's Italy. Um. And of

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Speaker 1: course it is right across the Adriatic Sea from Yugoslavia.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, this is our mystery taliant

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Speaker 1: for this week. The Adriatic Sea has also been proposed

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Speaker 1: as one of the many, many possible sites for the

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Speaker 1: lost city of Atlantis. And I'm not lying. So somebody

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Speaker 1: has seriously proposed the Adriatic Sea. The Atlantis is down

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Speaker 1: there somewhere. Um. And of course, along with like twenty

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Speaker 1: four thousand other possible sites, there's a lot of them

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh. And And of course OURGO sixteen wasn't

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Speaker 1: just anywhere in Italy. It was stationed in Venice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know you've been in Venice, I have Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what do you think it was nice. It's smell kind

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Speaker 1: of like a boot, kind of like a boot. Really okay,

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Speaker 1: giant rats? How big are we talking about? German shepherds? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Really wow? Yeah, remember that really awesome. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: hear Venice. It's pretty you know, you know you never

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Speaker 1: see those postcards, do you know? I know I've I've

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Speaker 1: seen pictures. It looks pretty free on awesome' I gotta

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Speaker 1: go there someday soon. But anyway, for those of you

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Speaker 1: haven't heard of Venice, it is the city that floats,

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Speaker 1: and actually it doesn't quite float it, but it's kind

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Speaker 1: of actually yeah, yeah, the city that almost floats. And

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, Venice has an airport, which I,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, is not actually in the floaty

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Speaker 1: part of the city. It's about three miles north on

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Speaker 1: dry land. Can we use that term regularly from here

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Speaker 1: on it? Yeah? Yeah, I like that. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: the actual city of Venice is, of course much more

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Speaker 1: than just a little floaty part. It's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: most of us on land dry land. At seven thirty

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Speaker 1: am November twenty three, Argo sixteen took off from Venice

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Speaker 1: Airport with a crew of four and the plane was

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Speaker 1: a lot for around two minutes heading west, and I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming that because the standard climb rate for the d

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Speaker 1: C three, as far as I can find out, it's

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Speaker 1: about tweet a minute. It sounds about it, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so the plane was reported to have been an

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Speaker 1: outstreade of about feet when something went wrong, So that

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Speaker 1: gives them a little over two minutes in the air. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: you may have said this, but I may have missed it.

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Speaker 1: The d C threees, Yeah, is what Argo sixteen is? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, I said it was a Sea forty seven.

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Speaker 1: So let's clear that up. The the d C three

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Speaker 1: was originally the plane the plane that the Sea forty

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Speaker 1: seven was based on. The Sea forty seven is a

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Speaker 1: military version of the d C three, and there's variants

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Speaker 1: that have passenger door. There's variances have a rear door,

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Speaker 1: there's variances that have the toe hooks on the rear

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Speaker 1: to pull gliders. There was a whole slew of versions. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I just charged you use the term for a plane

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't heard yet. Yeah. So the d C

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Speaker 1: three Sea forty seven kind of the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: it was a really reliable plane and they made tons

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Speaker 1: of them. My understanding, about sixteen thousand overall were built. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them were, Yeah, and about ten thousands

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Speaker 1: or so those were for the military as a sea

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Speaker 1: forty seven and of course Urgo sixteen about World War

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Speaker 1: two vintage, which would make it about what three decades

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Speaker 1: old around the time of cars, roughly, but assuming it

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Speaker 1: was well maintained, it should have been totally reliable in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. Planes aren't quite like cars. As long

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Speaker 1: as they're maintained, they can last a long long time. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as long as the engines are

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Speaker 1: maintained and it doesn't suffer any major mechanical malfunctions that

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Speaker 1: they're typically serviceable. Well, yeah, for a long time. Argo

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Speaker 1: sixteen took off reaching outde like I said, of about feet,

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Speaker 1: something went wrong which caused it to suddenly lose altitude

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Speaker 1: really quickly, and it crashed in an industrial park about

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Speaker 1: six miles west of the airport. Yeah. And they do

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Speaker 1: have industrial parks in Venice apparently, Yeah, everybody does. You

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Speaker 1: don't seeah, you don't see those in the movies. Those

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Speaker 1: are also not on the postcards. They're not on the

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Speaker 1: floaty parts, so they don't count as much exactly. So

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Speaker 1: there's our mystery. What caused Argo sixteen to augur in? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's a that's a quick little mystery. So this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be short, short episode. I totally short. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it's we're almost and then uh yeah, five more pages

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Speaker 1: of script. Three more. Yeah, we're fun alright. So theories, uh,

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Speaker 1: and of course, get you guys, feel free to chip

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Speaker 1: in with any theories that you might have. These are

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Speaker 1: just a few of the ones that are out there.

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Speaker 1: I've got the book. We're going to sell that thing.

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Speaker 1: I swear to God, we'll ation it off somewhere. It's

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Speaker 1: taken three and a half, almost four years, and I'm

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Speaker 1: about three quarters of the way through. We get a

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Speaker 1: while ago. Well yeah, just people just scribble more in it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just I'll just write stuff and then sharpe it out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'll leave it with me and I will I

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Speaker 1: will scribble all kinds of stuff in it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the time you get here next week, it'll be

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Speaker 1: mostly full. So first, what's our first first theory is

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Speaker 1: pilot error, which was the conclusion of the original inquiry.

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Speaker 1: They of course, they had an inquiry, of course, and

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Speaker 1: had uh, the inquiry, of course, has been reopened more

240
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Speaker 1: than once. This has actually been bad at a about

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Speaker 1: and talked about an Italian politics for quite a long

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Speaker 1: time now. The crash of our six. Yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a big national thing. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a big controversy there. Yeah, but the original inquiry

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Speaker 1: concluded pilot error. And this is kind of a tough

246
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Speaker 1: one because frankly, almost all the documents for this mystery

247
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Speaker 1: are in Italian and Google translate. While it's not bad,

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Speaker 1: it's not exactly ideal. The other problem with all the

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Speaker 1: documents is that they have slowly disappeared over time. That

250
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Speaker 1: is one of the biggest biggest complaints I have seen

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Speaker 1: in the reading. When you know, when you go through,

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Speaker 1: it's like there's all these officials who want to investigate

253
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Speaker 1: and are furious because stuff is just literally missing. Uh

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Speaker 1: what's going on with that? Huh? Yeah? Makes you well,

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Speaker 1: that's why everybody, see, Yeah, that's that's why this is

256
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Speaker 1: such a juicy little mystery. Yeah, we should have nicknamed

257
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Speaker 1: this the C and C Music Factory apparently, because yeah,

258
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Speaker 1: everybody's been guilty, so there must be a guilty secret.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little skeptical of the pilot air theory, although

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Speaker 1: I I could see, I could sort of see some

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Speaker 1: ways that it could happen. Maybe. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I forgot to mention our pilot's name. He goes Anano Boreo,

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Speaker 1: and I hope I'm not mispronouncing that. Devin your Italian.

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Speaker 1: You pronounce it okay, sounds good. Uh. He was a

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Speaker 1: very experienced pilot. The plane did not crash on takeoff, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that's where that's where pilot air can really come in.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you screw up, I forgot to pull up

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Speaker 1: quick enough or whatever. You overrun the you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean things like that. He didn't do that. He was

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Speaker 1: well off and supposedly kind of safely up in the air. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean so, I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: he could have done, but there are a few possible

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Speaker 1: ways that let's suppose that the engines quit total loss

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Speaker 1: of power. And let's suppose he turned the plane around

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Speaker 1: and he headed back to the airport, which is what

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Speaker 1: I would do, and and he was hoping to be

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Speaker 1: able to glide back and get landed, and posing he

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Speaker 1: maybe chose the wrong glide pass. Something a bit too steep,

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Speaker 1: then you can see where it might have fallen a

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Speaker 1: little bit short of the objective and crashed short of

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Speaker 1: the airport. So I want to ask a question on that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I haven't been able to determine this, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you have. I mean, I read all this

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Speaker 1: stuff about the fact that the plane crashed, it skipped

285
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Speaker 1: off a building and then it ran into the front

286
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Speaker 1: of another building as when it crashed and caught on fire,

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Speaker 1: obviously enough. But what I could never tell is which

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Speaker 1: direction was it headed when it made that impact. That

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Speaker 1: should have been heading northish to for for its intended route.

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Speaker 1: So but if it was, if it crashed and was

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Speaker 1: heading south, that would you know make sense based on

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, I do not, to be honest,

293
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Speaker 1: I'd really like to know that too. Again, the stuff

294
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Speaker 1: that's out there, at least the stuff that I can

295
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Speaker 1: read or get translated by Google, doesn't really tell you.

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Speaker 1: A lot says basically went up, something happened, they plummeted

297
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Speaker 1: to the ground and crashed, and then they cover nothing

298
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Speaker 1: but the political are in fighting that happens after that.

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Speaker 1: That's what I came across. Yeah, I could, I could

300
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Speaker 1: totally be something like, well, they flew up, they past,

301
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Speaker 1: they flew past the industrial park by always, and then

302
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Speaker 1: turned around and came back, because that's actually the kind

303
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 1: of the direction they needed to go for their mission,

304
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Speaker 1: which was over the Adriatic Sea. It's you know, it's

305
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Speaker 1: off to the east, so I can see what they

306
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Speaker 1: want west, turned around, coming back, something happens and then bang, yeah,

307
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Speaker 1: but we don't so we don't know what direction it

308
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Speaker 1: was traveling when it impacted the ground. Now, ok, we

309
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Speaker 1: don't know that. Okay, it's one of those things. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of the details on this stuff

311
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Speaker 1: are kind of skimpy, unfortunately, because the documents keep disappearing.

312
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Speaker 1: Uh huh, that's frustrating. Uh. But as far as him

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Speaker 1: choosing the wrong lightpath and missing his objective, that seems

314
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Speaker 1: like kind of a bonehead of mistake. If he was

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Speaker 1: that experienced of a pilot, well, and I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I could actually see though, I could see a guy

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Speaker 1: being very confident and he's going to get these engines restarted.

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Speaker 1: So he spends let's say thirty or forty seconds longer

319
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Speaker 1: than he should trying to get the engines. What you

320
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 1: were saying in this in this supposed scenario, died, he's

321
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Speaker 1: trying to get him restarted, and by spending too long

322
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Speaker 1: on that, he loses that window of opportunity to get

323
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Speaker 1: himself spun about and on a good path heading back. Yeah.

324
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Speaker 1: Or you know, it could be too that he actually

325
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Speaker 1: was a really selfless guy and that he chose to

326
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Speaker 1: crash into an industrial park because it's less populated than

327
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Speaker 1: a residential area. So maybe you crashed it there on purpose. Yeah,

328
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Speaker 1: maybe we realized, Yeah, did you look at the aerials

329
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Speaker 1: of that place. Yeah, I mean, it's not not densely populated,

330
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Speaker 1: and this is like you know, the venice we know,

331
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Speaker 1: which is pretty densit, right, So I questioned, that's all. Yeah, Well,

332
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Speaker 1: let's let's get back from that. Let's let's look at

333
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Speaker 1: another couple of options for pilot air. Another one would

334
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Speaker 1: be a stall with a tail spin. So you guys

335
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 1: on the tail spin is right, yeah yeah, spinning yeah yeah,

336
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Speaker 1: horizontal to the ground by the tail yeah like yeah, um,

337
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,120
Speaker 1: and actually usually kind of vertical of the ground, kind

338
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Speaker 1: of like headed towards the ground and spinning around yeah,

339
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: like you say. And then by the tail yeah, cork

340
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 1: screwing what kind of cork screwing down? Yeah, and uh,

341
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Speaker 1: this is something I learned how to do in flight simulator. Actually,

342
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Speaker 1: you go up until you go up till your stall,

343
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Speaker 1: and then put the rudder on one way or the

344
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: other and then you'll just sort of go over to

345
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Speaker 1: one side and start spinning. And it's pretty easy to

346
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Speaker 1: handle them flight simulators. Yeah, you are never piloting us anywhere. No, No,

347
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 1: I probably not a good idea. But the airplane was,

348
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Speaker 1: as far as I know, still gaining altitude, so I

349
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 1: could see where you know, when you're getting altitude, you're

350
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Speaker 1: gonna be going slower than just flying level and straight right.

351
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Speaker 1: Maybe possible the pilot and copilot didn't realize that they

352
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Speaker 1: were going slower kind of than then they were heading

353
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Speaker 1: towards the stall. Maybe that maybe their stall indicator was broken,

354
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,360
Speaker 1: which is not unheard of. Uh, and supposing to say

355
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 1: the pilot was putting the plane into a turn and

356
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 1: then just write about them the plane stalls while he

357
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 1: winds up a tailspin, which are as I said, generally

358
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 1: recoverable as long as you have enough altitude to work

359
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: with the ground. Yeah. Yeah, because stunt flyers do them.

360
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: All the time, And of course I did in flight

361
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Speaker 1: simulator and it works out fine for me, but I

362
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: usually like a big margin, even in flight simulator. But

363
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 1: from what I read on the interwebs, and and yes,

364
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 1: of course there are there's at least one web forum

365
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 1: to vote it to nothing other than flying the d

366
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,360
Speaker 1: C three of course, of course, and lots of good

367
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: information out there. But according to these guys at d

368
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,439
Speaker 1: C three, slash C forty seven doesn't actually recover so

369
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: well from tailspins. It's an oddly shaped plane. Yeah, in

370
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 1: terms of its proportions, just like in the script, he says,

371
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 1: and they're not recommended. Yeah, yeah, yeah they are. Yeah.

372
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: I mean this this plane is it is one third

373
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: wider on its wings than it is long, because it's

374
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 1: sixty three ft long, and it's ninety five ft across

375
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: from wing tip to wing tip. For folks on the

376
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,400
Speaker 1: other side, that's nineteen meters by twenty nine meters. So

377
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: it's I can see how that would be rather ungainly

378
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 1: and difficult to pull out of a spin. Yeah, definitely,

379
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: and it's of course, but but of course those big

380
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: old wings could generate a lot of lips. That's what

381
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: they're for Yeah, and that's why the d C three

382
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 1: was so great. It could it could it could land

383
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: in short little spaces and stuff like that, and it's

384
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 1: really good for all that kind of stuff, you know,

385
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: a very versatile plane. There's still some around actually even

386
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: today flying. There are a few left. Yeah. Actually, we

387
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 1: used to have one right here in Portland at arms.

388
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: Did you ever see that thing? No? I didn't. Yeah,

389
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 1: years ago with the old arms up by the Zoo,

390
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: they had a d C three on public display there

391
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: for many many years. I remember that. You remember that one? Yeah? Yeah,

392
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 1: And unfortunately when they moved down to the river they

393
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: got rid of it, which kind of Actually, I'm still

394
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: kind of angry about that. That was really cool. And

395
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure they sold it to somebody who's going to

396
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: restore it if they haven't already. Is it not at

397
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: the Aviation and Space Museum? I don't know. Maybe I

398
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: would think that's where they'd send it. Yeah, yeah, I

399
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: mean hopefully they didn't send, like to sell it to

400
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: a scrap yard. If you would think not, let's pray

401
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: that they didn't do that. Well anyway, where were we?

402
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Tailspan's uh, I don't know. I think the

403
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: pilots would have had to have been really kind of

404
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 1: asleep at the switch for this to happen. Although it

405
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: was early, maybe they hadn't had their coffee, but that

406
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: I mentioned they took off a seven thirty in the morning. Yes,

407
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: maybe they just hadn't had enough coffee. And maybe they

408
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: but I it just seems like that'd be such a

409
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: bonehead of mistaked to that pretty big stretch. Yeah, I

410
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 1: kind of is. Uh. And there's one more possibility into

411
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: the pilot air theory, which is at the Sea forty

412
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: seven slash DC three, we had a little design flawed

413
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: its engines. I don't know if you guys researched this

414
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: at all, but uh, And I'll talk about that in

415
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: a minute. So if the Captain Barreo was but a yeah,

416
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: but I was unaware of this problem, or for some

417
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: reason he shows to ignore it, then I suppose that

418
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: could have caused a little bit of an existential crisis

419
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 1: on the plane. Um. And so I'll explain what the

420
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: problem is in a second air. Okay, So that would

421
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: be a combination kind of mechanical malfunction plus a little

422
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: bit of error on the part of our pilot and

423
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: have we said, by the way, that the pilot air

424
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: is the most popular theory according to the original investigations,

425
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: not the most popular theory, but the original investigation. That's what.

426
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: According to the original investigation, it was the most popular.

427
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: It was the most popular theory, as in, that's what

428
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: everybody believed, including the public and everybody in the beginning.

429
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: That's what the investigators said. Yes, yeah, they were the

430
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: ones who were saying, yeah, it was totally pilot air.

431
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: I know, the investigating more it's totally pilot air. Well,

432
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it was the most popular theory. It

433
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: just means that it was the one that the government opinion,

434
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: which is always the most popular opinion, is always the

435
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: most popular. So, yeah, what's our next theory. Okay, let's

436
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: talk about another theory. I could see the nineteen seventies

437
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: three version of the internet. Government says pilot area. Heck, yeah,

438
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: I like that a lot. Well, let's let's start a

439
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: letter writing campaign. It was a different Internet back in

440
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: those days. Yeah, that totally was Well, it's our next series,

441
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: mechanical malfunction. Um. So, as I just mentioned, there was

442
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of an issue with those engines. Of course,

443
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: this is a prop plane. It's not a jet prop plane.

444
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: Got piston engines, and you all, I'm sure know how

445
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: piston engines work. If you, if not paused and go

446
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: out and do a little work on the internet. Seat, Yeah.

447
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: The manufacturer McDonald Douglas recommends running these engines full out

448
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: as much as possible. And the reason for that is apparently,

449
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: with this particular engine, if you're running it less than

450
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: full RPMs for a long periods of time, Uh, then

451
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: deposits will form at the head of the cylinder, at

452
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: the top of the piston stroke from unburned fuel residue,

453
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: and you'll wind up with a nice hard ring at

454
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 1: the top of your cylinder on the inside. Got that

455
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: it makes me? Yeah, I I understand, Yeah, I get

456
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 1: the engine. So yeah, And so apparently if you if

457
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: you run the engines full out all the time and

458
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: then that that rain does not appear. But if you're

459
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: if you're running your engine at lower i p ms,

460
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: and you'll you'll wind up developing that ring probably And

461
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: you know the thing about not running it at full

462
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: erpms at least. This is my understanding based on a

463
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: guy a new years ago who was a pilot as

464
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: he said, you you typically don't want to be running

465
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: your airplanes engines at high RPMs all the time. You

466
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: want to be at just the low enough rpm that

467
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: you're you've got speed and you you keep lift, but

468
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: you're not maxing it out, so you're trying to keep

469
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: it at a lower rpm. Does that make sense. It's

470
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: kind of like your car. I can drive it three

471
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: thousand r p ms in second gear or two thousand

472
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: RPMs in third gear, and I'm going to get better

473
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: mileage and especially the engine. Yeah, And it's the same thing.

474
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: So I can understand a pilot who got the same

475
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: kind of advice this guy gave me. Let's run at

476
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: the lower RPMs all the time. You're gonna get better

477
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: field economy and stuff like that. Sure, and so the

478
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: theory goes that the ring somehow interferes with the engine.

479
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah this ring, Yeah, this's this ring of this hard

480
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: ring of residue. Essentially, what happens is that if you've

481
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: been running your engine at less than full RPMs regularly

482
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: a lot, then you get and you get that ring.

483
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: And then if suddenly, for some reason, with this particular engine,

484
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: if you've suddenly got it up to full RPMs. What

485
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: happens is your piston which and you know what a

486
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: piston ring is, right, not the same as a ring

487
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: on the inside of the cylinder. The piston with the

488
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: piston rings actually can hit that hard ring on the

489
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: inside of the cylinder and break and from the problem.

490
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: That's a big problem. It's kind in the engine world.

491
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,959
Speaker 1: That's kind of catastrophic actually, because those rings keep the

492
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: oil that's in the engine from going into the fuel

493
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: system and vice versa. And if they start to mix,

494
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: really bad things happen. Right, And on top of that,

495
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: just having these things break into pieces and and being

496
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: stuck between the pillar of the piston and the cylinder

497
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: wall is also getting ground in and so yeah, they're

498
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna be the hell out everything, destroy it

499
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: quite quickly. Yeah, the engines tend to go. It's several

500
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: thousand revolutions per minute, that's what RPMs are. You can

501
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: just see how quickly that's just going to destroy something. Yeah,

502
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: you wind up your hole, engine can just fly to pieces.

503
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: I'll get an email from at least one mechanic about that.

504
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure always change your oil. Yeah, yeah, that actually

505
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: good advice. Uh, and rotate your tires also. Yeah, But anyway,

506
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: let's imagine that you're flying our Go six one find

507
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: November morning. Suddenly your left engine gives out. And that's

508
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: not a huge problem because all you gotta do is

509
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: crank up the right engine to make up for some

510
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: of that powerless. But under certain circumstances, of course, this

511
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: can cause our right engine to fail too, and that

512
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: that's when things get a little serious. That's what I'm

513
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: talking about pilot Air, because Carta Breo should have been

514
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: aware of this issue with these engines theoretically, theoretically should

515
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: have been And you know, again, this is all supposition

516
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: on my part two, because we don't know how he

517
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: ran his plane. He panted this thing all the time,

518
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: an rather he might have run it full out seven

519
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, But just supposing and this guy went

520
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: on long flights over the Adriatic kind of radar sniffing missions,

521
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if he didn't run it

522
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: full out all the time, because field economy and all

523
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: that stuff. But I guess if that's if that's what happened,

524
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: I suppose you could argue that pilot Air did contribute

525
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: to that crash. So here's another question for you, is

526
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: that the sort of are those rings? Could they form

527
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: if you were just sitting on the ground with your

528
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: props running. It takes a while for it takes a

529
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: while for the for deposits like that to accumulate, talking

530
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: like days, weeks, hours, lots and hundreds of hours of operations. Yeah,

531
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: it takes a long time. It's not gonna happen just

532
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: that morning. It's the same thing. Have you seen those

533
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: hideous commercials from like Chevron where they showed the super

534
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: crud engine. Yeah, that means that's what I'm time to happen,

535
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: right of course. I mean it's the same thing in

536
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: this scenario. Okay, I just wanted to make sure that

537
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: that was happening, So Joe, I have I wanted to

538
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: see what the service record of this kind of plane was.

539
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: Do you know how often these freaking things went down?

540
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: You know? I saw that there were a lot of

541
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: incidents out there, and I started going through them, and

542
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: a lot of them were not through actually a failure

543
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: of the plane is you know, a bunch of them

544
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: they flew into stuff like mountains. They fell in the

545
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: mountains where they got shot down by the enemy. Are

546
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff happened, and I didn't want to

547
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: sort them all out and try to figure out how

548
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: many of them were due to mechanical failure. And there

549
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: do seem to be a lot. Of course, You've got

550
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: to keep in mind they made a help a lot

551
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: of these planes. They did. They did so, and I

552
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: understand that I'm I'm narrowing in on a small portion,

553
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: but that could be an important portion because aside from

554
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: flying into solid objects like mountains, uh, there there's a

555
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: number of things that I came across that seemed to

556
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: be issues that were accidents related to take off. So

557
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: I tried to find things that were take off only.

558
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: So there's like you were talking about, just a random,

559
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: unexplainable engine failure failure. But I'm also finding that in

560
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: terms of like pilot air, which we were talking about before,

561
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: it was it seems like it wasn't too hard to

562
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: starve the engine of fuel by leaving your choke on

563
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: or choking the engine too much. What's the best way

564
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: to describe what a choke does, because nobody has a

565
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: choke anymore. Yeah, it's where you bought it with more

566
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: fuel yeah, it chances see the air, It chances to

567
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: see the air fuel mix. That chances that ratio, which

568
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: is what typically you would do on a cold engine

569
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: so that it it starts and it heats up. But

570
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: if you do that and you end up accidentally starving

571
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: it of oxygen, you can kill the engine like the

572
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: flu on a fire, very similar. Yes, yeah, you do,

573
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: you do have You do have to adjust that as

574
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: you change attitude. And I found that out actually some

575
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: years back when I wanted to flight with this guy

576
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: in a little two seaters h Cessna. We were flying,

577
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: went up to fly over Mount St. Helen's. I was

578
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: just turning around, just looking at the back window and

579
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: just checking out the scenery and stuff. We were well

580
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: up in the air, and he chose that moment to

581
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: adjust the fuel air mixture. And also I was sitting

582
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: there looking at the back of All of a sudden,

583
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: they hear the engine going to like that, and I

584
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: kind of turned around and I can't imagine what my

585
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: eyes looked like. I'm sure they were as big as saucers.

586
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: And he's probably having a good laugh. Oh yeah, oh yeah,

587
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: he laughed. But yeah, and but yeah, that's what you

588
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: do is it changed that mix till your engine start

589
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: to miss a bit and you crank it back a

590
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: little bit. And so that is one thing. Not having

591
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: enough air speed can be a problem. There was there

592
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: were situations where people were the you know, like a

593
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: gust of wind help them take off, and then that

594
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: disappears and they don't have their engines going fast enough,

595
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: so they lose their their loft. There was just in

596
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: general not having enough air speed, which I think is

597
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: the ones where people basically ran into the end of

598
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: the air the runway. Those were the ones, um. And

599
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: then like you were talking about stalling, and there was

600
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: somebody there was one that randomly the rear door popped

601
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: open and ripped off the plane and then tore through

602
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: the tail. So there's there's a lot of stuff. But

603
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, though, is that if it isn't this is

604
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: kind of mechanical or this might kind of be pilot.

605
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: Is that accidentally um starving the engine and that would

606
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: be it's kind of very plausible accidental thing to do

607
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: to to to kill it. Here's the problem with that, though,

608
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Joe. But there was no

609
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: radio communication between the plane and the towers saying we're

610
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: going down. Yeah, not that I am aware of. And

611
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: I looked around for that. I saw no indication, which

612
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: to me tells me that it was not. It was

613
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: something very very sudden and catastrophic, which you know, starving

614
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: the engines by accident and then losing all aloft. That's

615
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: going to take a minute or so. You probably have

616
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: time to call in. You know this automatic habit for pilots.

617
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: You gotta call the airport and go say, hey, clear

618
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: the runways, I'm heading back your way and hopefully I

619
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: can get there, or I'm heading here. Please send somebody.

620
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: We're going to go down. It seems bachelor. It seems

621
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: kind of like a rookie mistake to me. I mean,

622
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: you know he was. It sounds like he was flying

623
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: this plane like almost daily, and you know, if not

624
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: definitely at least once a week. And yeah, I just

625
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: have a hard time thinking that, you know, yeah, it

626
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: is unless unless you had a rookie co pilot and

627
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, he say, and he just told him to

628
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: take the controls and then have that. Well, he slept

629
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: off the night before he headed back to go to

630
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: the head or get a cup of coffee or but

631
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: even then, you know, then you call in. Yeah, you

632
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: would still call in. So yeah, the the only exception

633
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: to that one would be if there was a tailspin. Uh,

634
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: And then you can imagine that both pilots are busy

635
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: just trying to pull the plane out of that and

636
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: there's no there's no way you're gonna reach out and

637
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: grab the mic and radio something. And then that's a

638
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: four man crew. There's four of them there. Well, yeah,

639
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: but those of the other guys were in the back

640
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: and they were probably plastered to the ceiling. I think

641
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: he got it true from the probably about impossible for

642
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: them to get to a radio. That's true. I okay,

643
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: I would presume that. And obviously I've never flown a plane,

644
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: but not We've done enough plane stories that it seems

645
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: to me that communication with the tower in a in

646
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: a problem situation is almost automatic. It's almost you know,

647
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: you hit to which and you you you start making

648
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: your calls, even while because it's it's pretty easy to

649
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: talk and frantically push buttons and pull levers and stomp

650
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: on things. Oh yeah, no, it totally is. But if

651
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: you're stop doing something like a tailspin, I mean, there's

652
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of g forces as you

653
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: spin around and stuff like that. At the point, it's

654
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: gonna be hard, I think, to reach out and grab

655
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: your microphone at that at that point really but yeah,

656
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's just assuming it was there was

657
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: a tailspin. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I

658
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: kind of like the tailspin theory, because after all, they

659
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: did crash just six miles from the airport. Essentially they

660
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: got ut and then they crashed. Well, they didn't really

661
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: glide that far. It seems like they went up and

662
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: it's basically almost went straight down. Well, they skipped with

663
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: the plane skipped when it hit the ground. It's it

664
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: hits something it hit was a building or a series

665
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: of cars, I can't remember, suddenly and then continued forward,

666
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 1: Whereas if it was a tailspin and it was dropping,

667
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: it should have continued to drop straight down. Well unless

668
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: they pulled it out, you know, somewhere at the last

669
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: minute and then just managed you know, so they might

670
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: have been moving at least something somewhat horizontally. Again, it's

671
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: frustrating with this one. A fun little mystery and I

672
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: like it a lot, but I wish there was a

673
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: little more information that'd be nice. I mean, for example,

674
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: I've looked at a few US air crashes and I'll

675
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: be able to find like actual reports of the board

676
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: of Boards of Inquiry and all this. Uh, they can

677
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: find a lot of you really useful detailed information. Ain't

678
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: nothing with this now, Well, where we move on to

679
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: our next theory. Let's take a quick break. Dave patrols

680
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: the perimeter dozens of times a day. Whenever he spots

681
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: a potential threat, he alerts everyone around. He is proud

682
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: of his work and is convinced that without him, anarchy

683
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: would rain. The problem is that Dave can't call you

684
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: at work and tell you what is going on. And

685
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: maybe that's a good thing, since no one can really

686
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: understand what Dave is trying to say. Anyway, he's now

687
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: assists is the mailman. The garbage man is a close second.

688
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: The guy with the schemasks coming through the back door

689
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: doesn't really rate because that guy has sausages weighing in

690
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: at just over four pounds. There isn't much that Dave

691
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: could do even if he didn't have those tasty treats.

692
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: No one wants to experience a crime firsthand. That's why

693
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: having home security that you can rely on is essential,

694
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: and with simply Safe, protection with professional monitoring and police

695
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: dispatch is just fifteen bucks a month. That's less than

696
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: half of what a traditional company would charge. Not to mention,

697
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: simply Safe utilizes a lightning fast wireless connection that can't

698
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: be cut by intruders. Plus you get an alarm and

699
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: activity alerts sent directly to your phone, so you'll know

700
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: what's happening. So protect your home. The smart way visits

701
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: simply safe dot com slash criminal to get ten percent

702
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: off your system today. That's simply s I m p

703
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: l I Safe dot com slash criminal. Don't rely on Dave,

704
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: after all, he's a chihuahua? Or is he the cheap

705
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: of cobra? Pull up? Pull up? Okay, okay, there we go.

706
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: We're out of our tailspin Um, Why are why? Why

707
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: did you decide we had to go to the simulator?

708
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: Were you proving that you get? Why? You will never

709
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: fly us anywhere? I don't even know that I want

710
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: to be in a car with him again, I've never

711
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: been in a car with It's it's weird. Yeah, like

712
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: to keep it that way. You probably don't want flight

713
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: simulat to guys because they're just not that worried about dying.

714
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you can get killed, and it's like, hey,

715
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: what's a big deal? All right, So what's our next

716
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: series here, sir? Our next one is air frame failure.

717
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: That's one things like you know, wings and stuff falls,

718
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: the back of the back of the plane falls off. Yea,

719
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: so it's not great. That can happen. It has happened. Yeah,

720
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: I guess I'm walking to Indianapolis. Yeah, she yeah. Now

721
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: the freeway is a lot safer than flying, that's for sure.

722
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, we've all been there. I mean, you're on

723
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: a routine flight to l A. Suddenly the starboard wing

724
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: falls off. The plane is this is just spinning downward

725
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: towards certain dyn You suck a bunch your neighbor and

726
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: take her bible from her so you can pray a

727
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: little bit before you die, and then you wake up

728
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: and you realize it was just a nightmare. But then

729
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: you look around and you realize that well, and you're

730
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: on a Boeing seven thirty seven on the port wing

731
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: has fallen off. Yeah, and your neighbor doesn't have a bible,

732
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: so you've got a resort to just begging God to please, please,

733
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: please let you live so you can give these jerks

734
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: a really really crappy Yelp review, and God hasn't said

735
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: anything back, and the ground keeps coming closer. And then

736
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: you wake up and you're not on a plane. You're

737
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: not spinning towards certain death, thank God, I know. And

738
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: then you become aware that you're on a Greyhound bust

739
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: being driven by a guy with a hockey goalie mask

740
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: on who's speeding ninety miles an hour towards the cliff.

741
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: Oh and at that and at some point you're subconscious

742
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: just gets bored with all these lame plot twists, and

743
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: you wake up in your own bed and you're all

744
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: safe and sound. We just went through the entire dream sequencing.

745
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: How does that relate to failure of this aircraft? Well, yeah,

746
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: I mean that's well, you know, some fluke happened, Like

747
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: I mean, air frame failure does happen, Like if you're

748
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: pulling nine g s out of a dive and you're

749
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: plane is not raged for nine g s, well you

750
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: could you can see a plane like a wing snap

751
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: off or at least bend, But there was nothing that

752
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: stressful happening with Argo sixteen. You know, nothing out of

753
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: the ordinary. Um, and of course this is this is

754
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I mean, well, in terms of

755
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: what they were doing, I mean, they weren't pulling nine

756
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: g s. No, not they were, as far as I know,

757
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: they were either still climbing or they they were leveling off.

758
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: They weren't. They weren't pulling some monster killer dive and

759
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: pulling out and putting all sorts of G forces on

760
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: their air frame. They didn't have enough time, No, not

761
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. I mean, the only thing I can

762
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: think of with an air frame failure is just sabotage

763
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: maybe um or possibly say a bomb plane, a bomb

764
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: in the right place on the plane. Well, that's good.

765
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: I can cause an airplane that could Yeah, catastrophic failure, yeah, yeah, yeah,

766
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: I believe that is the epitome of Yeah. He put

767
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: in the back and blows the tail off. You know,

768
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: there's the whole tail of the plane. Well that's bad news.

769
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: It's not great, No, not at all. So. But but

770
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: as far as their airframe failure, I nobody's ever put

771
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: that forward. I just thought i'd show that. Well, actually

772
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: I saw some hinting added that was kind of cleared

773
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: up because one of the wings was taken off, But

774
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: that's isn't not the one that hit a lamppost and

775
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: it's still there. Well, that was the weird thing when

776
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: I was doing the reading. Is that there? And and

777
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: the wing hit this lamp post and it shared in

778
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: the wing broke off, and they're like, yeah, if that happened,

779
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: the lamppost would have been destroyed as well. And the

780
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: lamppost is still there. Again, This is one of those

781
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: things with the reporting on this story, that's weird. Sorry,

782
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: the reports at the time said the lamppost just still

783
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: there or somebody today. Investigators. Investigators were people who had

784
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: gotten the original investigation. I was gonna say, well, Steve,

785
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: they just put a new one back. No, that was

786
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: the thing that I'm pretty sure it was people in

787
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: the area at the time. We've got the report like

788
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense because I'm looking at it

789
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't have been here anymore. It just depends

790
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: on how stoutly that thing is made and how you know,

791
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: and how well anchored it was. It also depends on

792
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: the efficiency of municipal services. They might have been right

793
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: out there. Johnny on the spot with a spare and

794
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: put it up that Day's I doubt that, Italy, I know,

795
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I mean it's always I

796
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: know they have spares. Okay, Okay, So yeah, air frame failure,

797
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: probably not. Probably there was a bomb, not in and

798
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: of itself, unless it was sabotage. And I don't know

799
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: how easy it is like to do subtle sabotage of

800
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: a seaporty seven, Like can you sneak inside and sort

801
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: of loosen all the bolts to one wing? I don't know.

802
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: Probably not. I don't think. I don't think that's the case.

803
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: They probably don't make it easy to do something like that.

804
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: So air frame failure, probably not, unless there was, of

805
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: course a bomb. Okay, so you've said that four times.

806
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: I know you're you're leading me somewhere. I'm kind of Yeah,

807
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: this is called in the literary world, it's called foreshadowing.

808
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: Didn't he say that last week? He did? Okay? Did that? Okay? Okay,

809
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: so that last week was foreshadowing? All right, Let's move

810
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: on to some of our juice here theories. And this

811
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: is probably the most popular one south there, which is

812
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: the Mossad did it? Sorry? Who are the Mesad. That's

813
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: Israeli intelligence. Yeah, yeah, and the Massade actually has a

814
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: reputation as being a very very effective bunch. Oh yeah,

815
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: did either of you read through the list of things

816
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: that they are credited with doing retally freaking crap. They're

817
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: good at what they do. They are really scary, they are. Yeah,

818
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: They're totally good. And then you know, Israel kind of

819
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: lives in a rough neighborhood, so they have to be

820
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: good at what they do, and you know, and they

821
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: are good at what they do. And this particular theory

822
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: the Massad done. It has actually been suggested even by

823
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: members of the Italian government. So yeah, it's not just

824
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: tin tintoil hat types on the internet. It's actual you know,

825
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: cabinet ministers and things like that. Like I said, it's

826
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: the most prevalent theory out there. So the whole genesis

827
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: of this story begins in February nineteen seventy three, uh

828
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: Libyan Airlines Flight one fourteen to Cairo was thrown off

829
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: course by a sandstorm and it wind up over the

830
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: Sinai Desert um, which, as you probably know, maybe you

831
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: don't know. After the nineteen sixties, seven wore the sin

832
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: I was occupied by Israel, Right, I've been to ask

833
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: you a whole bunch of questions, so if you can

834
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: preempt those, because that that area is very hard for

835
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: me to keep straight because there's so many players and

836
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: so many moving borders. Yeah, they do shift a little bit,

837
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: don't they. Yeah. Well, anyway, so it was over the Sinai, um,

838
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: and then it was trying to like turn back, and

839
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: of course Israeli warplanes intercepted. One of the things. The

840
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: Israeli has noted this thing had just flown flown over

841
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: the sus to no fly zone, and Egyptian ground defense

842
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: missiles had not shot it down, which made them a

843
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: little suspicious if I was maybe a spy plane instead

844
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: of a passenger yet, so they shot it down, um.

845
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: And well it turns out that was a bit of

846
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: a mistake. It was full of civilians, um all. But

847
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: I think nine people died in the crash, So yeah,

848
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: kind of a black eye for the Israelis. And of

849
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: course this was a Libyan plane. Mostly Libyans on the plane,

850
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: and muamarket Api, who was the ruler of Libya at

851
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: the time, was thirsting for revenge against the Israelis. Uh.

852
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: And so he wanted to shoot down in the l

853
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,959
Speaker 1: airliner and l Al, of course is the Israeli national airline. Yeah,

854
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: and so they decided to shoot one down flying out

855
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: of room, and they wanted to shoot the biggest one

856
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: they could, which at that time would have been a

857
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: seven forty seven. So the plan was to shoot down

858
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: a seven forty seven as it is it Uh, the

859
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: Machino Airport in Rome? Is that how it was pronounced?

860
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: Italian girl, We're just going with your pronunciations from now on. Okay,

861
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: So movemar. Kadafi wanted to mount a joint Libyan Egyptian operation.

862
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: And again Kadafi is in charge of Oliba of Libya. Okay.

863
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: Then Arsadat, who was a successor to Gamal Abden last year,

864
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: had recently died of heart attack as the president of Egypt.

865
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: How do you keep all that in your head? I'm

866
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: looking at my notes and I don't have any of that.

867
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: You know, I've been sort of studying this stuff for

868
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: a while. Okay, So we've got and Sadat wants to

869
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: sort of pacify Kadafi, so you know, he cooperated with

870
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: him on this. You could see it was very important

871
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: to him, and so he since Egypt was supplied with

872
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: Soviet weapon right, they just happened up a few extra

873
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: Soviet Essay seven Strala anti aircraft vessels laying around. That's ground,

874
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: that's surfaced air missiles, right exactly. Yeah, kind of like

875
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: our Stinger missiles. Yeah. And and so the Egyptians agreed

876
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: to to help out the operation by supplying them with

877
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: two of these missiles, which they smuggled into Rome. Uh.

878
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: And that was they were smuggled. Any boy, a guy

879
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: named Ustraf Marwan. He was an Egyptian who, oh, by

880
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: the way, was actually working for the Massad at this time. Yeah,

881
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: he was. He worked for them sad for years actually. Uh.

882
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: And Marwan actually wound up living in London, where he

883
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: died in two thousand seven under what they called suspicious circumstances. Yeah.

884
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: So there's another unsolved mystery. Ah. He fell off the

885
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: balcony of his apartment building. Yeah, got it, Yeah, went

886
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: over the railings somehow, and yeah, so it's considered a mystery.

887
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: But so he his wife actually smuggled him into room

888
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: under diplomatic bag and have passed him off to him

889
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: to Madawan and and then he had to meet up

890
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: with these terrorists because if he had recruited five Black

891
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: September terrorists too. And Black September is the Palestinian group

892
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: called themselves Black September named after the events of September

893
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy in Jordan's which is getting often of the

894
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: weeds some more. But that's where they get their name

895
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: from because that September nineteen seventy is called Black September

896
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: by the Palestinians because of what happened the Jordanians Civil

897
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: war and they got kind of got their asses handed

898
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: to them by King Hussain of Jordan's and that's why

899
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: they call it that. Um. So this this group pops

900
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: up Black September. You might have heard of them the

901
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: Munich Olympics in nineteen seventy two. They massacred a bunch

902
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: of Israeli athletes. That was Black September. Okay, So anyway,

903
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: though I won't get too much into detail about this operation,

904
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: but essentially Ostro mor Juan had to meet up with

905
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: these guys to live the missiles, so he hasn't look

906
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: the trunk of his car, so now he has the missiles. Yeah,

907
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: so this is hilarious. So they're they're gonna rendezvous at

908
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: this shoe store in Rome, and so they meet up.

909
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: The Black September guy walks up to him, gives him

910
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: the past for the secret code word and all that stuff,

911
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: and and then he says, Okay, well, you know I

912
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: got I got to get that you guys need. So

913
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: we're just gonna get it into your car and you

914
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: guys can take it back to your place and get

915
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: ready for the operation. And then the Black September guy says,

916
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: what we walked here and have a car and I

917
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: and and they scratched their heads a little bit. And

918
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: then and what the Black September you guys did is

919
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 1: they went down the street to a carpet a carpet store,

920
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: and they bought a couple of big Persian rugs and

921
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: brought it back and they rolled up the missiles and

922
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: the launchers in the rugs, and then they all threw

923
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: them on their shoulders and and they went they actually

924
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: went to a subway station and took them back to

925
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: their place on the subway. Missed the and the aircraft

926
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: missiles rolled in carpets on the on the room subway.

927
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: That's yeah, I know, that's it really is. Yeah, so

928
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: they got they got their missiles back to where they

929
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: needed to be. But it turns out that on our

930
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: Sadat actually didn't want this plot to succeed um and

931
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: he had actually told Ostro Marwan to rat out these

932
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: guys to the Italians. But Marijuana had already told the

933
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: Massad anyway, so the Bisade tipped off the Italians, and

934
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 1: the Italians were cooperative and they captured all the terrorists

935
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: before they could shoot down an airplane and kill hundreds

936
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: of people. So it was a successful operation all the

937
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: way around, and all the Italians were kind enough. Also,

938
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: the Israelis asked them if they could have one of

939
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: the strellas them a the nentirecraft missiles, and the Italians

940
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: said shure, and they gave one. Yes. They hadn't seen

941
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: Estralla before. They wanted to take it apart and I

942
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: have a look at it. Yeah, But here's where the

943
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: Italians didn't quite do the right thing. They released the

944
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: terrorists because they were afraid of terrorists reprisals, and so

945
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: it's and then apparently what I heard is that they

946
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: tried them, may be convicted, and I'm not sure how

947
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: for all it went. But then eventually they just let

948
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: them go. What they did is say, supposedly Argo sixteen,

949
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: that's our plane that crashed. Supposedly it transported those five

950
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: from Italy to Libya via Malta. And as the story

951
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: I have heard anyway, is that in Malta, Mossad agents

952
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: spotted the plane and figured out what they were up to.

953
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: The fear enough they were taking the Black September guys

954
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: back to Kadafi's home place, and that this theory is

955
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: that the argue was was downed by bomb or whatever

956
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: in retaliation for the release of the Black September terrorists.

957
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 1: That this is so, that's why, and by saw so

958
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: what I so? I think so the reason that they

959
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: released him, if I understand correctly, is that Italy had

960
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: a double policy. In other words, because it was fearing

961
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: getting attacked by anybody, they were Okay, well, we're on

962
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: your side, so we will totally fight against them. Oh,

963
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: we captured some of them. We're gonna return them to

964
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: their place and make a deal with the place that

965
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: they came from so that they don't attack us. So

966
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: you don't attack us, because we'll fight them and we

967
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: and they won't attack us because we fight you and

968
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: like they tried to be Switzerland in the whole deal. Yeah,

969
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: but but it didn't work. Well. They're yeah, they're a

970
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: little strategically to strategically located to be Switzerland, you know, Yeah,

971
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: Switzerland's kind of out of the way. That works to

972
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: their advantage. But they were trying to be semi neutral,

973
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: and they just they went about it in the wrong way.

974
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: They tried to be sneaky about it. And well, they

975
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: had a thing called the Moral Packed, although that was

976
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: not yet in place at this time as far as

977
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: I know, which essentially said exactly what you're talking about.

978
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: They agree to sort of look the other way as

979
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,439
Speaker 1: long as the terrorist didn't blow anybody up or shoot

980
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: anybody on a time territory, they would let them operate

981
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: and do whatever they wanted. And so that's a variant

982
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: on this series that the Massad brought down Argo sixteen,

983
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: which is that they were retaliating for the Moral Packed,

984
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: as isn't named after the Prime minister at the time,

985
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: Prime Minister more of of Italy concluded a pact with

986
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: the Plough essentially a mutual non aggression packed And so

987
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: what this was is that p could they could do

988
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: whatever they wanted if they were apprehended, they would be

989
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: like they could actually live in Italy and operate out

990
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: of Italy even as long as this is a quick,

991
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: quick pro quo, no attacks took place on Italian soil.

992
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: That's a variant on this series because San has said

993
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: that this is why they Israelis did this, brought the

994
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: plane down his retaliation for the Moral Pact. So just

995
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: and again just because I need to tell I need

996
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm clarifying the parties here PLO Palestinian

997
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: Liberation Front and Palestine Liberation Organization, thank you. And they

998
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: are totally anti Israel, Yeah, very much. So that would expect.

999
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: So in the Massadi is the Israeli intelligence intelligence. Okay,

1000
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: so that explains the clashing of the heads in the reprisal. Yeah. Yeah.

1001
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: The PLO is as actually kind of an umbrella group.

1002
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: It's an organization that the largest group is in under

1003
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: this fatah, which is which was Yassa Arafats organization that

1004
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: he organized, and some other and then some other organizations

1005
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: also were brought into the umbrella of the PLOS. So

1006
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: it was kind of a somewhat more fragmented thing than

1007
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to, but in general, but essentially,

1008
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: but essentially this represented the Palestinian cause on the one side,

1009
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: and and they and they're not totally analogous. I mean,

1010
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: the massade is more intelligence and also wet work. They

1011
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: did plenty of wet work by the way, you know,

1012
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: you know, as it comes with the territory. But as

1013
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: far as so it's being retaliation for the Moral Packed,

1014
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: I have a problem with this, which, as far as

1015
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: I can tell, the Moral Packed was not actually concluded

1016
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: or implemented until after December nineteen seventy three. But if

1017
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: they did release the five guys, then it could be

1018
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: retaliation for simply having done that. Craving released those guys exactly.

1019
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 1: So I don't think it was retaliation for the Moral Pact,

1020
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: because essentially there's those two series one retaliation for the

1021
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,919
Speaker 1: Moral Pact Number two releasing these five guys, it could

1022
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: have been pre retaliation. I mean, you know, if it

1023
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 1: was implemented in nineteen seventy three. November of nineteen seventy

1024
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: two is when we're talking. This happened, right hosts November

1025
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: seventy November seventy three, So the Pact was later seventy three, Yeah, well,

1026
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we all know who politics work, right, I

1027
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: mean it takes a while. So if they, you know,

1028
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: if the Massade had gotten wind that this was going

1029
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 1: to happen, it could have been like a preemptive like, hey,

1030
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: don't do this or else you see what happens. And

1031
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: they did it anyway, and you know, they, yeah, obviously

1032
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: this is like on the Massade really screwed up because

1033
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: they brought down this plane and the Italians looked at

1034
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: and said, well, is there a message here? Damned if

1035
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: I can tell, I think the plane just fell out

1036
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: of the sky. And so obviously, you know, they picked

1037
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: the wrong target, or they were too good at their job.

1038
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: They just didn't. They just didn't. They chose to send

1039
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: a rather rather garbled message. But it could be well, no,

1040
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: actually you don't, Joe. I'll counter that though. It could

1041
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: be a garbled message, or it could be the people

1042
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: that they wanted to get the message got the message,

1043
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: they just didn't care. That is always a possibility. The

1044
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: guy that you're trying to send your message to, he

1045
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: totally gets it. He just didn't give a rip. Well,

1046
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: it's you know that. That's the thing about it too,

1047
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: is that you know, the Italians. If the Italians got

1048
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: the message about the moral packed and they decided, oh,

1049
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: the Israelis are angry, but on balance, the Palestinians are

1050
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: going to murder a lot more Italians than the Israelis

1051
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: are going to you know, and so well, okay, it

1052
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: makes sense to make the Israelis mad, not not the plo. Okay,

1053
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: there you go. Problem solved. But as to the other

1054
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: iteration of this theory, which was that it was retaliation

1055
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: for releasing the five Black September terrorists, um, I'm not

1056
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: sure exactly. And I looked and looked and looked on

1057
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: the interwebs to find out exactly how long they were

1058
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: held before they were released. I don't think they didn't

1059
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: just automatically catch them and just release them. No, this

1060
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 1: isn't like fishing, No, not at all. They had they had,

1061
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Is it spy fishing like fishing

1062
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: it it's like a movie about that spy fishing. But

1063
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 1: it really is hard to say if our Igo sixteen

1064
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: was in retaliation again without knowing exactly when they were released.

1065
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: And also there wasn't a lot of time to mount

1066
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: a retaliatory operation because remember there was the October War

1067
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: and you know, the sixth October nineteen seventy three, presumably

1068
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: that occupied Israel's time and attention quite a bit. So

1069
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: how much time and did they actually have in man

1070
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: powerted into downing this obscure plane? Uh, you know, I

1071
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: don't know. And and also there's also the fact that

1072
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: the Italians cooperated with him. They actually helped to foil

1073
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: the plot to bring down the plane, the seven forty seven.

1074
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems. They gave him the missile

1075
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: and they actually helped them out in this in the

1076
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: October War of seventy three. Yeah, I think overall it's

1077
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: not it's not the best. It's a more fun theory

1078
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: than you know, they went into a tail spin on accident.

1079
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's a good theory. No, no,

1080
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: it's not. But you know, I think one of the

1081
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: reasons it's popular in Europe is that dark massade plots

1082
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: are really common currency in a lot of parts of

1083
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: the world, especially in Europe. There's there's a lot of

1084
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of conspiracy theories surrounding the massade.

1085
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, this one just doesn't fly. I don't

1086
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: think the Massad did it, I see no reason to

1087
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: do it. Number one, I just don't. All right, so

1088
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: what else not? There's not a lot else here, but

1089
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that brought up this this possibility,

1090
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: which is Operation Claudio. Ever heard of Glaudio? Yeah? I

1091
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: used to play Nintendo games and there was the game

1092
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: Gladius Gladius. That's close enough. Okay, it was Gladious. It was.

1093
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: It was Gladius, and I think it was a spaceship game. God,

1094
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: I can't remember too much. Go home and look that up.

1095
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: If the name but if the name Operation Glaudio sounds

1096
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: familiars because we talked about it in our September one episode.

1097
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: Except up, so I'm given away of time travel secret. Okay,

1098
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: never mind, just blank that out of your head. Glaudio

1099
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: was It was a shadowy operation. It began at the

1100
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: end of World War Two, and it was called Claudia

1101
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: Operation Glaudio in Italy, and as far as I know,

1102
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: that was out of the umbrella name for the entire

1103
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: operation europe wide, because there were similar organizations in almost

1104
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: every other Western European country, all under different names, with

1105
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: different names. Yeah, and there were a lot of cells

1106
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: out there, and uh, what these guys were is they

1107
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: were stay behind force of commando types, almost like Green

1108
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: Beret types, like empliers. Yeah exactly, but these were, you know,

1109
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: hardcore trained military types, and obviously they had lots and

1110
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: lots of weapons caches. These were and these guys weren't

1111
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: just regular private citizens. I mean, they were government employees.

1112
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: They were soldiers. So the original Red Dawn, not the remake, then,

1113
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, that's what they did remake that movie.

1114
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that yet, don't, uh really Okay, uh

1115
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: So the idea was that these guys would have there

1116
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: would be sort of deepcover guys, and they would stay

1117
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: in place. If the Soviets invaded Europe and occupied Europe,

1118
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: these people would stay in place and train and arm

1119
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: other citizens and mount guerrilla attacks and the subversive organized

1120
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: their resistance. And that was the plan. And that's why,

1121
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: of course they had to have huge stashes of weapons,

1122
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: which I kind of wonder if they're all if they

1123
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: were all rounded up, if there's still a few out there,

1124
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: they'll be kind of cool. It has been rumored that

1125
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: the some of the Operation Claudio soldiers became kind of

1126
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: a rogue force in some places in Europe. They were

1127
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: staging assassinations and such on their own. I've never been

1128
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: able to find any any real confirmation of this. That's

1129
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: the big question, is like, were these guys like disciplined

1130
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: military units who followed orders or did they go rogue?

1131
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: I obviously, from an internet standpoint or even a literary standpoint,

1132
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: it's more fun to think that they went rogue right

1133
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: over in the course of thirty years, that's easy to imagine. Yeah,

1134
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: they get they get a little bored, and they've been

1135
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: waiting for World War three for how long now? And then,

1136
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: by the way, we have access to these huge piles

1137
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: of weapons. You know, I could see why going out

1138
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: and then you're creating a little may It would be

1139
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: kind of a temptation. It makes me think of more

1140
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: than one phone call slash test measters that I've got

1141
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: from you, sir, which is, Hey, you want to go

1142
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: blow something up? You want to go shoot some guns? Yeah,

1143
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: let's go kill something. Although you're you're blowing stuff up,

1144
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,439
Speaker 1: shooting it? Yeah, just a building or two, you know, yeah,

1145
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: just kidding, yeah, uh so, Yeah, I mean that we

1146
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: all have kind of those temptations. You know, it's fun.

1147
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: But these guys were eventually dismantled and they never really

1148
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: saw any actions, so we don't know if they were

1149
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: really doing anything. Well I'm furthermore, how does it connect

1150
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: to the Argo? Yeah, well here is the connection. And

1151
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: and this is not well documented either, but it's out there.

1152
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: It's it's a popular theory. But it's been said that

1153
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: Argo sixteen, among other clandestine type planes, transported armaments and

1154
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: sold Jersey for Operation Claudio in Italy. And that's certainly plausible.

1155
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean, a secrets byplane, you know, transporting secret armaments

1156
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: and secretcommando types. I guess that makes sense. It's not

1157
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: you know again, even though I can't document it, I

1158
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys were able to find anything. No, yeah,

1159
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: at all. But the theory on this one is that

1160
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: the Italian government tried to reign in Operation Claudio in Italy, uh,

1161
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: starting in nineteen seventy three, the reason being, of course,

1162
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: this whole out of control thing. Maybe they had rogue

1163
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: elements and uh, you know how politicians are. They just

1164
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: don't like the idea of having people in their country

1165
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: aren't totally under their control. And these people weren't under

1166
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, they weren't totally under Italian government control. And

1167
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: so the theory is here is that the Glaudio operators

1168
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: retaliated by bringing down OURGO sixteen that was there, and

1169
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: that was there sending him says, hey, don't mess with us,

1170
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: don't try to close us down and take our guns away.

1171
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: We dropped your plane, and then the Italian government there

1172
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: retically backed off, didn't try or didn't try anything more

1173
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: until about which was when the whole operation of Europe

1174
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: Wide was essentially phased out. Well it was uncovered, yeah,

1175
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: some of it became publicized, but also about that time,

1176
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: of course we've got to follow the Soviet Union and

1177
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and so it didn't seem really as

1178
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: necessary anymore. And it will be interesting. Actually, I'm gonna

1179
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: deal a little more research on this, because there's got

1180
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: to be at least one guy who was part of

1181
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: this whole operation who wrote a book about it, and

1182
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: I want to find I want to try to find

1183
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: that out. So far, I've looked around a little bit.

1184
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: I haven't found it. I haven't found that guy in

1185
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: this book, but there's got to be somebody who wrote

1186
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: a book about it. What was it that you said

1187
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: on the last theory um that this is really obscure messaging.

1188
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: And oh you mean with like Argo sixteen dropping in

1189
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: because of the Well yeah, that's um, that's the the

1190
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: whole thing is that. Well, first off, I can't find

1191
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: any actual evidence or document station that the Italian government

1192
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: actually made any moves against Operation Glaudiol though of course

1193
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: they were super secrets, so so maybe, but it would

1194
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: be a secret if they made moves against them. How

1195
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: did the argo connect to Operation Glaudio? And yeah, again

1196
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: it's it's like you're sending a pretty garbled message there, huh,

1197
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: Because the way I see it, if the Ministry of

1198
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: the Interior is trying to clamp down in your operation,

1199
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: then you want to go bomb their headquarters. Right, Well,

1200
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: I mean I guess I can see, you know, message

1201
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: hits the right people. Everything super secret, so they're obviously

1202
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: not going to come out and say, especially investigators aren't

1203
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: going to come out and say, oh, yeah, these super

1204
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: secret agents that we have that have gone rogue that

1205
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: we've been trying to shut down and we can't shut down,

1206
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: bombed this airplane and brought it down, and that's who

1207
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: did it. Obviously you can't say that. I mean, so

1208
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: I can understand maybe the right person did get the

1209
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,919
Speaker 1: message and they did back off. But again it's so tinfoil.

1210
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: Well it is, I mean, it's again, it just strikes

1211
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: me that you're bringing down the wrong target. Yeah uh yeah,

1212
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, so anyway they bringing down Argo sixteen is

1213
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: just to me just doesn't send any message at all. Yeah,

1214
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they're not the guy. So the Operation

1215
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: Claudio one. But there's another Glaudio angle, which is this.

1216
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: It's entirely possible that Argo sixteen really was transporting stuff

1217
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: for Operation Glaudio. It's entirely possible that day when ostensibly,

1218
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: if I can use that word again, sorry, that the

1219
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be going off on a radar

1220
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: sniffing mission over the Adriatic. Maybe that was a cover

1221
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: for something else. Maybe they were actually taking some armaments

1222
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: or something else from Venice to somewhere for Operation Glaudio,

1223
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: dropping packages, dropping packages, weapons, whatever. So maybe the plan

1224
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: was to sort of go off their usual route down

1225
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: the Adriatic, even do a little radar sniffing on the way,

1226
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: and then land wherever they're supposed to offload their cargo.

1227
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: And supposing some of this cargo was a little volatile

1228
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: or somebody screwed up and armed arms something that they

1229
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: shouldn't have armed inadvertently, and we've talked about that before.

1230
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: You have to package and properly still certain materials on

1231
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: a plane to prevent them from going off. Yeah, and

1232
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: so you know what if that was actually their their

1233
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: main mission that day was not even radar, but to

1234
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: transport some stuff secretly and then up see something blew

1235
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: up on the plane to things vibrated together on takeoff

1236
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: and caused the combusted Yeah. Yeah, things like that could

1237
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: happen when we're talking about volatile things like weapons. Uh So,

1238
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: Actually I kind of liked this series because to me,

1239
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the stuff about the more conspiratorial stuff like

1240
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: the massad and Operation Claudio, like blowing it up on purpose,

1241
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: they don't make a lot of sense. You know, does

1242
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: that make Does that? I would agree? Did you guys

1243
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: say that they just don't make much sense? Yeah? I

1244
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: don't think so. But then again, you know, if the

1245
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: cause was something mondane like pilot air or mechanical, that's

1246
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: super lame, that's super mouth, that's some Monday, And why

1247
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: would that Why would this stuff still be classified? And

1248
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: I still question it because they went down so fast

1249
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: and no, no, communication that we can find record of. Yeah, yeah,

1250
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: and and so this makes me wonder if and it

1251
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: wasn't even necessarily weapons for operation laudio, it could have

1252
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: been something else. But if if maybe their mission that

1253
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: day the sniff radars was just to cover for something else,

1254
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: Well what might that have been? And could whatever it

1255
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: was there a carry on the plane that brought that

1256
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: plane down that day? Too bad, we can't just file

1257
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: a freedom of information that quest. And well we know

1258
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: the documents are gone. A lot of documents have disappeared.

1259
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: The wreckage itself was chopped up and sold for scrap

1260
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: like shortly after the wreck They didn't keep it around

1261
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: for any period of time at all, which is a

1262
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: little suspicious. Again, well really, huh you think, of course

1263
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: this is Italy. They don't have as much room as

1264
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: America has. Yes, so they had this fast tract of

1265
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: kind of land in the middle of their country that

1266
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: is thousands of punk thousands of miles and nobody lives there.

1267
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: Let's just put all the funk airplanes on it. Absolutely,

1268
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,479
Speaker 1: that's what we do here any more. Theories, Well, there's

1269
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: a troop of copra theory. Yeah, yeah, he was smoking

1270
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: on the plane while the red lightn no smoking that

1271
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: he was using a cell phone and I properly turned

1272
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: it off. Well, I got this there from one of

1273
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:33,479
Speaker 1: my massade contact. Yeah, and he I was asking about

1274
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: this and he was like, oh, no, Joe, You're all wrong.

1275
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: It was yeah, and uh well, apparently what happened is

1276
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: is they were taking ancient choopy to train some operation

1277
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: Laudio guys just in the arts of phoeneasness and depravity,

1278
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: and things were going to be all good, and then

1279
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: they got to feet and suddenly Trippy kind of forgot

1280
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: himself for a moment, kind of what medieval on the

1281
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: pilot the coke pilot, you know. And I'm just kidding.

1282
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: I just have an implicated shoopy and so long, I

1283
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: feel kind of bad for our shoopy fans, So I

1284
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: need to throw that one in there. Uh So, anyway,

1285
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with they had something in their hold

1286
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: that maybe shouldn't have been there, maybe that wasn't stilled

1287
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 1: quite correctly, and it kind of caused a catastrophic failure.

1288
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I'm thinking. Yeah, but that's just me. Okay, well,

1289
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: we've got all that out of the way. Now it's

1290
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,440
Speaker 1: tiding for the important stuff, which is all this housekeeping.

1291
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 1: I know that at least somebody wants to send me

1292
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: an email about this, so uh, let me get that

1293
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: out of the way first. Our email is Thinking Sideways

1294
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. Uh. And so you know,

1295
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:40,560
Speaker 1: if you know about our gust six, you know the

1296
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: real storytell us we'd really appreciate hearing it. We also,

1297
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: of course have a website, which surprisingly is called Thinking

1298
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Sideways podcast dot com. Uh. And also well, of course,

1299
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: on our website we have our episodes out there. You

1300
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: can listen to them and unfortunately no comments anymore, but

1301
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, you can still look at our fabulous website

1302
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: and then listen to the episodes. It's awesome. Uh. And

1303
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: also you can find us on iTunes, where you can subscribe.

1304
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: You can also give us a rating and a review, preferably,

1305
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, a good rating and a good review. We

1306
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: like those. And of course you can stream us everywhere

1307
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: Google Play especially, but there's a lot of other sites too,

1308
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: and you probably already know about that anyway. So why

1309
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: am I telling you I don't know? Uh? This is

1310
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: this thing called social media. You probably heard about this Facebook,

1311
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: Twitter and read it. We're out there on Facebook, we

1312
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: have a group and we have a page. So join

1313
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: the group and what like the page? Or do you

1314
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: like the group and join the page? Okay, all right,

1315
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: there we get it right the first time. Yeah. And

1316
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: we're of course also on Twitter where we are thinking sideways.

1317
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: No g there, and Devon is our most serious practitioner

1318
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: the Twitter. Yeah yeah, so send send Devon a tweet.

1319
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: And last of all, we have a subreddit. You guys

1320
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: have all heard of read it. Well, we have our

1321
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 1: own subreddit, our very own subreaddit. It's called thinking sideways. Uh,

1322
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: thousands of acres of land, people's store, defunct airplanes on.

1323
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: That's literally what that is? What redd it is? Yeah,

1324
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: there's that's what. Yeah, that's perfect. That's a good analogy.

1325
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: Or what's that literally true? It's literally true? Okay, okay,

1326
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 1: I'll take you there sometime. Yeah, I appreciate that when

1327
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: we fly. What else merchandise? I know you're you've heard

1328
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: this once and you're just thinking, oh my god, why

1329
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: don't chuse you so bad? Well, thank god. There are

1330
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: places you can get t shirts and mugs, stickers, all

1331
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff with dazzle red bubble. Also, they have

1332
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: all this stuff and you will find that linked. There's

1333
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 1: links to them in our website on the right hand side.

1334
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: So go out there and just bye bye bye do

1335
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: all your Christmas shopping now. And that's about it for

1336
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: me for this week. Again, if you have any special

1337
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: insights into Argo sixteen and love to hear him. And

1338
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: until next week. Uh rib achi, Oh, I got nothing.

1339
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: We're just going down by I guess. Don't call me Shirley.