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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Dan Alioto, you know, you were mentioning the prospect of

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Speaker 2: ontological shock, and I suppose you know there's a degree

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Speaker 2: of that. It's a possibility for some people around the world,

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Speaker 2: depending on what it is that is made public, what

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Speaker 2: kind of disclosure, if there ever is such a thing

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Speaker 2: as official disclosure. Let's talk about that for a moment.

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Speaker 2: And the possibility is of an ontological shock, I guess it

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Speaker 2: depends on what is disclosed, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean the point that I was making before the

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Speaker 3: break was that I think that there would be a

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Speaker 3: line of people from here to at least Kansas of

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Speaker 3: people who would volunteer to be able to commune with

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Speaker 3: these beings and even do experiments. I mean, there's college

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Speaker 3: students who paid similar tuition by doing tests on them

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Speaker 3: and getting paid, and so I don't know that this

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Speaker 3: would need to happen. I think I think there's a

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Speaker 3: certain larger percentage of people who would actually volunteer to

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Speaker 3: have that experience.

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Speaker 4: But separate from that, Yeah, the public, I think.

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Speaker 3: Across the world, not just in the United States, is

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Speaker 3: grossly underestimated. People have a way of taking in new

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Speaker 3: knowledge absorbing it. Yeah, of course they would be chaos.

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Speaker 3: But again, like you said, what is full disclosure, because

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Speaker 3: right now we're only talking about nuts and bolts. You know,

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Speaker 3: these hearings are terrific, right we're going in there, and

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Speaker 3: unfortunately we seem to be fixated with only military testimony

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Speaker 3: and evidence.

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Speaker 4: That's a small portion.

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Speaker 3: Of the evidence that has been coming in and everyone

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Speaker 3: else seemed to take a backseat to that. And the

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Speaker 3: thing that is the big question that no one asks,

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Speaker 3: not once have they really drilled down on this, which

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Speaker 3: is why are they coming here? They look at it

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Speaker 3: like is it a threat? Blah blah, But no one says,

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Speaker 3: why are they coming here? And are they coming here?

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Speaker 3: What have they been doing here? Well, maybe the experiencers

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Speaker 3: it's time for them to have to see at the table.

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Speaker 2: Well, I agree with you. I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 2: the heart of the whole topic, is that relationship between

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Speaker 2: them and us, wherever they're from, whatever their agenda is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they clearly have technology to wipe us out

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Speaker 2: if that was their aim, their intentions seem different. They

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Speaker 2: haven't wiped us out. There have been some intrusions that

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Speaker 2: are certainly unsettling. I sympathize, like with Congress, for example,

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Speaker 2: why there haven't been hearings from experiencers. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: a struggle enough for credibility wise, and I think they,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of journalists, including myself, have focused on

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Speaker 2: is there a paper trail? Is there a paper trail

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Speaker 2: you can follow to government programs to indicate that there's

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Speaker 2: a cover up and if so, what they're covering up? Crashes, intrusions,

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Speaker 2: controlling nuke things of that sort. I sympathize with Congress

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Speaker 2: in looking at that because I mean a lot of

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Speaker 2: the experiences from experiencers, the people you deal with are harder,

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Speaker 2: much harder to nail down. And if you only get

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Speaker 2: one shot at a hearing, or they've had a couple

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Speaker 2: of them now, I don't know if they're going to

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Speaker 2: be more, but if you only have one shot at that,

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Speaker 2: you want to try to come away with the most

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Speaker 2: provable parts of the story. But I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I think the things that have been shared with you,

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Speaker 2: that you share with us in your film is the

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Speaker 2: heart of this interaction and deserves a fair shake and

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Speaker 2: more attention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because you are kind of patient zero

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Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, you know you and the

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Speaker 3: work with Bob Blazar by the way, big shot out

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Speaker 3: to Luigi Venelli, who's got S four coming out, which

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Speaker 3: is going to blow next level, gonna blow things off

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Speaker 3: the roof. And then you were also the one who

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Speaker 3: got the story originally that took place in December of

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and that's when the editorializing started. They didn't

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Speaker 3: get into what was going on at Skinwalk a ranch.

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Speaker 4: And I get that. You don't want to feed someone

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Speaker 4: for the first time a mouthful of this information. You

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Speaker 4: want to sip it.

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Speaker 3: You need to sip it, and they've done that, and

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Speaker 3: so I sympathize with them as well, because how do

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Speaker 3: you say to the public.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so we've.

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Speaker 3: Had incursions, we can't really control those, but so far,

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Speaker 3: no one has been reported being blested out of the sky.

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Speaker 3: And as far as technology goes and US co opting

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Speaker 3: their technology, no one has talked about any bombs off

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Speaker 3: of these crabs being dropped in the Ukraine, Russia anywhere,

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Speaker 3: So we don't see that. And it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: Chekhov's gun if you see it, hear about it in

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Speaker 3: the first act at the beginning you're going to use

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Speaker 3: in the third and that hasn't happened, so I think

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Speaker 3: for them to say, yes, we can't control this, but

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Speaker 3: so far, so good. However, there's this other program, separate

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Speaker 3: from the one that Dan Farrah you know, had in

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Speaker 3: his great documentary Age of Disclosure, another program, a subprogram

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Speaker 3: that is everything that you guys would fear.

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Speaker 4: That's that's the tough thing.

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Speaker 3: I remember Luel Lazando telling me that, you know, years ago,

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Speaker 3: that when he would do these briefings with the generals,

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Speaker 3: there would be a portion of them that would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're doing God's work and another portion that

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Speaker 3: would say you do know their demons?

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's still you know, disinformation or or you know,

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Speaker 3: the pendulum on both sides even in that scenario.

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Speaker 4: And so how do we how do we get that

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Speaker 4: out there?

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Speaker 3: I'm I kind of feel like we need to find

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Speaker 3: a way to meet because here's the thing. When I

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Speaker 3: asked these experiences and I talk to them, I'm talking

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Speaker 3: to people that have had interactions with these and as

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Speaker 3: much as we hear tales and stuff, and it could

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Speaker 3: absolutely be true of these military people, the program where

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Speaker 3: they're connecting and talking to these beings. Experiencers are dealing

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Speaker 3: with it since there were children. You know a lot

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Speaker 3: of them, they've had this their whole life, and so

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Speaker 3: these guys are experts on this. So if we really

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Speaker 3: want to know what's going on, we have to partition

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Speaker 3: out a certain amount for these guys and their story

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Speaker 3: and their narrative. And so for me, when I think

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Speaker 3: about traveling and the technology and going off the planet

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Speaker 3: and everything, my brain gets scrambled because I'm going, well,

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Speaker 3: let's start talking with these guys. But we still have

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Speaker 3: a long ways to go before we're mature enough to

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Speaker 3: take our kind and go out into the universe. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think if there's a galactic federation, I don't think

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Speaker 3: the bouncer would even let us wait in line.

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Speaker 4: I think we've got a lot of work to do.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, there times have changed, Attitudes toward this

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Speaker 2: have changed a lot, But there's there are some examples

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Speaker 2: from the past that you examine, and include Betty and

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Speaker 2: Barney Hill. Everyone listening to this program is probably familiar

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Speaker 2: with at least parts of that that incident, that experience,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think a lot of them have heard

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Speaker 2: the recordings, the actual recordings, and you have big chunks

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Speaker 2: of that in this film. And Betty and Barney, a

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Speaker 2: courageous couple on many levels, as you document, were terrified.

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Speaker 2: They were absolutely terrified from these experiences and afterward too, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they didn't want this to come out. And

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Speaker 3: again their experience. They do remember seeing in UFO, they

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Speaker 3: do remember seeing at landing. That's all they remembered. And

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Speaker 3: there were little pieces of little flashes of information that

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Speaker 3: they remember, and then are.

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Speaker 4: All came out. They didn't come out to the public.

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Speaker 3: There was I believe a neighbor who went ahead and

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Speaker 3: did that for them, got that out there, and.

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Speaker 4: He paid dearly for it.

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Speaker 3: He passed away, he meaning Barney passed away at a

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Speaker 3: young age. He got to the point where he couldn't

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Speaker 3: function at his job and he pivoted and became a mailman.

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Speaker 4: These people don't want this.

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Speaker 3: Experience, they don't, but they stand by their story and

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Speaker 3: the people around them that have analyzed them, triple analyze them,

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Speaker 3: if you will. They passed the test. And so I

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Speaker 3: just that case to me in nineteen sixty one. That

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Speaker 3: was the first, That was the beginning, and so everything

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Speaker 3: kind of branches off there, and so if you're going

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Speaker 3: to do a movie about the experiencers, you have to

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Speaker 3: start there. And in it, I call them the first experiencers,

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Speaker 3: you know, in the public eye. And then that gets

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Speaker 3: you know, as you see woven in with Travis Walton

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Speaker 3: and Deborah during a ball and Terry Lovelace. But the

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Speaker 3: thing that made me make this documentary above all that,

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Speaker 3: and again each of these I wanted to show things

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Speaker 3: that you haven't seen and and one of that. One

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Speaker 3: of those things was, like you said, actually having the

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Speaker 3: recordings of Barney and Betty Hill under hypnosis. Reliving this

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Speaker 3: for the first time was to animate this and to

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Speaker 3: actually see it. And so I do that with all

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Speaker 3: the cases. But the thing that really knocked me on

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Speaker 3: my butt was.

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Speaker 4: These two sisters. These two sisters. Yeah, yeah, that was it.

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Speaker 3: That's where I went, Okay, I guess I'm committed now

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Speaker 3: because I can't.

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Speaker 4: Everything in my life is now stopped.

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Speaker 2: So these sisters were new to me. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if anyone has ever talked about it before, if they've

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Speaker 2: been in a film or interviewed, but they were new

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Speaker 2: to me. Skyler is the first one we meet, and

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Speaker 2: she tells you about she and her sister as kids

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Speaker 2: having the same dream, and then eventually you put them under.

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Speaker 2: You have Yvonne Smith put them under and bring up

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Speaker 2: these memories. That was very comp It was a very

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Speaker 2: compelling way to tell the story.

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Speaker 3: They well, first of all, how this came to me

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Speaker 3: was one of the producers, a social producers on the movie,

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Speaker 3: Craig Jackson. I was almost done with this with it

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Speaker 3: was going to be an episode of another alien Perspective.

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Speaker 3: And he called me and said I just heard the

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Speaker 3: craziest story. And I go, yeah, okay, I've been hearing that,

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Speaker 3: nothing but that for eight years. And he says, or

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Speaker 3: at the time, only a year. He said, there's this woman.

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Speaker 3: She's an artist, she's a musician, and she shared this

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Speaker 3: dream with her sister and she's like twenty six, twenty

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Speaker 3: seven years old. And I said, okay, well that doesn't

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Speaker 3: sound normal, and he goes, yeah, I don't think it is.

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Speaker 4: So I call Levonne.

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Speaker 3: I go, Yvonne, I just heard this story about these

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Speaker 3: kids they've had they shared two dreams, and she goes yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: I go okay, dang, all right.

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Speaker 3: So I went ahead and I put them under and

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Speaker 3: so the audience discovers real time what happened. And it's

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Speaker 3: interesting because one sister is this artsy type and the

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Speaker 3: other one is a marketing, you know, business type person

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Speaker 3: and they live on separate sides of the country. And

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Speaker 3: we had the first one go under the first sister Skyler,

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Speaker 3: and then the second one. I said, don't tell her anything,

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Speaker 3: don't tell her your experience at all.

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Speaker 4: Can you do that?

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Speaker 3: And I set that up before why even engage in

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Speaker 3: doing her first interview? And she says, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: And so none of them knew what was going to

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Speaker 3: come out, and what came out was shocking, and that

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Speaker 3: became a way to tell the audience this is still happening,

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Speaker 3: and this is relevant now, and so I wanted to again.

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Speaker 3: It took a long time, took years to be able

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Speaker 3: to figure out the right format structure so that you

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Speaker 3: could weave in these seminal cases that have all given

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Speaker 3: us pieces to the puzzle, and then ground it by

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Speaker 3: having these people and these two sisters.

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Speaker 4: And that was Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a whole other behind the scenes of

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Speaker 3: us just having our jobs drop the whole time as

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Speaker 3: we're filming this going is your camera working make sure.

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Speaker 2: As you say, it's still happening, do you have any

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Speaker 2: measurement to indicate whether it's happening as much as, say,

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago, or is it? I guess you know,

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Speaker 2: the individual subjects can change. They reach a certain age

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Speaker 2: where it doesn't happen anymore. I don't know what that

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Speaker 2: age is, but you know they it doesn't happen to

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Speaker 2: them anymore. But do you have a sense of whether

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Speaker 2: it's escalating or declining, whatever the experiment is. Have they,

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Speaker 2: whoever they are, got what they need?

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Speaker 3: I ask Yvonne Smith that every once in while I

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Speaker 3: check in with her. I go, how's it going, what's

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Speaker 3: the latest? And she says, it's not as prevalent. It

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Speaker 3: seems like it comes.

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Speaker 4: In spikes.

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Speaker 3: And right now it's something that a lot of the

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Speaker 3: people are still being taken, a lot of the regulars,

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Speaker 3: if you will.

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Speaker 4: But it does seem that some.

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Speaker 3: People do age out of this, and so I think

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Speaker 3: it's it's definitely it feels like it's to a lesser degree.

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Speaker 3: And again I'm just going off of her own sampling.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going off of any move on sampling, But

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Speaker 3: it does seem like it's throttled back a bit. And

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Speaker 3: I think at this point, if it is like, as

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Speaker 3: an example, a hybrid program, I think that they maybe

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Speaker 3: they have enough. But you know, it's interesting. I always

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Speaker 3: compare this phenomenon, this specific part of the phenomenon, to

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Speaker 3: the Beatles. What I mean by that is you start

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Speaker 3: out going, oh, Paul is the cute one, and the

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Speaker 3: cute one is in this instance, it's that they come

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Speaker 3: from another planet. That's the first thing you think. And

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Speaker 3: then you have jon Ony, Well it's kind of he's

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Speaker 3: a little darker. Maybe they're coming from another dimension, you know,

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Speaker 3: And you go through then and then you settle on

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Speaker 3: the one that I think that I've settled on, and

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Speaker 3: we'll call it the Ringo theory, which is that they

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Speaker 3: may be coming from the future. And having several discussions

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Speaker 3: with doctor Michael Masters, that seems to ring true because

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Speaker 3: the chances of another species being bipedal.

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Speaker 4: Like we are.

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Speaker 3: And when I asked Michael and the first time I

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Speaker 3: interviewed him, I said, Okay, your job as a political

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Speaker 3: isam anthropological biologist at Montana Tech is to reverse engineer

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Speaker 3: where we came from, so projecting out how far are

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Speaker 3: we away and would we look like this, and he says, yes,

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Speaker 3: and it's not that far away, and it could expedite,

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Speaker 3: that could accelerate.

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Speaker 4: And so what I'm looking at that is I'm.

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Speaker 3: Going, Okay, I think that if that is the case,

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Speaker 3: then they're going to need sampling because right now we

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Speaker 3: are not procreating like we used to, whether it's through

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Speaker 3: microplastics or whatever. But we have people may know, we've

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Speaker 3: got a huge sterility problem with regards to people being

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Speaker 3: able to conceive. And so if that's the case, you're

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Speaker 3: going to have to go back in time and get

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Speaker 3: a fresh sampling. And so you and I don't exist

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Speaker 3: without the Neanderthals. I mean, they needed to have a

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Speaker 3: mix otherwise it becomes kind of like deliverance, if you will.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, so it's kind of you know, and it

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Speaker 4: could be all.

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Speaker 2: The above, by the way, So yeah, it doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be just one answer. I also spend some time

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Speaker 2: with Michael Masters, very impressive guy, level headed. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a really brilliant idea. Had to put a different

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Speaker 2: perspective on the table. There's one thing he says in

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Speaker 2: your film toward the end of it that is alarming

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Speaker 2: in that he said he thinks that they are some

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Speaker 2: version of us from the future coming back to get

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Speaker 2: some genetic samples to make something that makes their future better.

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Speaker 2: But he said, they're getting genetic material from groups that

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Speaker 2: never made it into the future that does not harken.

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Speaker 2: It does not sound like a happy ending for us

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Speaker 2: in our current incarnation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you got that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's interesting, right because the these abductions that happen,

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Speaker 3: and even at Airmial School, what are the two things

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Speaker 3: that they constantly say over and over to us? They say,

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Speaker 3: you're screwing up your planets and your technology isn't helping you.

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Speaker 4: Which the technology.

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Speaker 3: Part is very contradictory because everyone, you know, there's there's

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Speaker 3: a huge faction of people that go, well, all the

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Speaker 3: technology we have from fiber optics to you know, velcrow,

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Speaker 3: you know, might have come from these beings. And so

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Speaker 3: if they are given as these you know, donating these

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Speaker 3: crafts and stuff which they don't have to smash, you know,

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Speaker 3: they can just give us the keys and the.

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Speaker 4: Visor that would be the technology.

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Speaker 3: So why would we why would they be given as

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Speaker 3: technology if they said that your technology isn't helping you.

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Speaker 3: So I tend to think that the technology they're talking

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Speaker 3: about might be social media. You know, these beans didn't

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Speaker 3: show up with this message during the printing press and

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Speaker 3: press era and say your technology isn't helping you and

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Speaker 3: be like, what printing off newspapers don't I don't get that.

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Speaker 3: And so I think the fact that what we're doing

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Speaker 3: in this planet is coming back, bouncing back and on us.

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Speaker 4: And so right now.

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Speaker 3: We've kind of got three lanes of the freeway, and

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Speaker 3: there's one lane that allows you to switch from lane

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Speaker 3: to lane.

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