1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin Jake Alpern here before we get started, I wanted 2 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: you to know that deep Cover Season two will be 3 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:31,436 Speaker 1: dropping weekly on Mondays, but the full season is available 4 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:36,356 Speaker 1: right now ad free for Pushkin Plus subscribers. That's all 5 00:00:36,396 --> 00:00:40,956 Speaker 1: ten episodes right away. Fine Pushkin Plus on the deep 6 00:00:40,996 --> 00:00:52,916 Speaker 1: Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot Fm. 7 00:00:52,956 --> 00:00:58,356 Speaker 1: Previously on deep Cover. In nineteen eighty six, Bob Cooley, 8 00:00:58,476 --> 00:01:01,476 Speaker 1: a Chicago lawyer who had worked for the mob, walked 9 00:01:01,476 --> 00:01:05,276 Speaker 1: into the office of a federal prosecutor and offered to cooperate. 10 00:01:06,076 --> 00:01:10,076 Speaker 1: Prosecutors were mystified why was he doing this? Up until 11 00:01:10,116 --> 00:01:13,596 Speaker 1: this moment, Bob Cooley had a reputation as a flashy 12 00:01:13,636 --> 00:01:17,356 Speaker 1: criminal defense lawyer who helped at least one person get 13 00:01:17,356 --> 00:01:22,356 Speaker 1: away with murder. Literally. In nineteen seventy seven, Bob vixed 14 00:01:22,396 --> 00:01:26,516 Speaker 1: the trial of Harry Alaman, a legendary mafia hit man. 15 00:01:27,356 --> 00:01:30,756 Speaker 1: The judge is not guilty. Verdict provoked outrage from both 16 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:34,956 Speaker 1: the media and the public. They couldn't even speak, that's 17 00:01:34,956 --> 00:01:37,596 Speaker 1: how the man and how livid they were. They could 18 00:01:37,676 --> 00:01:42,036 Speaker 1: not believe that this judge didn't fight him guilty. The 19 00:01:42,436 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 1: place went into a piano, but for the mob. This 20 00:01:47,076 --> 00:01:50,876 Speaker 1: case proved Bob's worth. He could be their ace in 21 00:01:50,916 --> 00:01:57,516 Speaker 1: the hole. Not long ago, I called up this guy 22 00:01:57,756 --> 00:02:00,436 Speaker 1: who used to know Bob. We're going to call him Nick. 23 00:02:01,116 --> 00:02:03,556 Speaker 1: Nick is in his real name. It's just a nickname 24 00:02:03,676 --> 00:02:06,636 Speaker 1: that we're using to protect his identity. Bob Cooley was 25 00:02:06,676 --> 00:02:08,876 Speaker 1: the best man. He was good at cooks and cases, 26 00:02:08,876 --> 00:02:10,996 Speaker 1: and hey, they knew how good he was if. I 27 00:02:11,116 --> 00:02:13,676 Speaker 1: always said, if I get some deep shit, it's going 28 00:02:13,756 --> 00:02:16,636 Speaker 1: to be a Bob, and Nick was always on the 29 00:02:16,796 --> 00:02:19,276 Speaker 1: edge of some deep shit. I was a captain and 30 00:02:19,316 --> 00:02:22,276 Speaker 1: the mob not don't be waving my flag, but I 31 00:02:22,396 --> 00:02:24,836 Speaker 1: was one of the smarter guys out there. My crew 32 00:02:24,956 --> 00:02:28,716 Speaker 1: was known as the Enforcement Crew, and we we would 33 00:02:28,716 --> 00:02:31,676 Speaker 1: go and do the dirty jobs that other people couldn't handle. 34 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:36,236 Speaker 1: Back in the day, Nick's specialty was collecting unjuice loans. 35 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:39,396 Speaker 1: I asked him how he operated. What he'd do if 36 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:42,436 Speaker 1: I owed him money it didn't pay up. Nick says 37 00:02:42,516 --> 00:02:45,956 Speaker 1: he'd start by asking for it politely. But if that 38 00:02:46,036 --> 00:02:49,196 Speaker 1: didn't work, well, I tell you, Jake, you know, if 39 00:02:49,196 --> 00:02:51,316 Speaker 1: you got twenty four hours to come up with that money, 40 00:02:51,356 --> 00:02:52,756 Speaker 1: if you don't come up the money, I'm gonna come 41 00:02:52,796 --> 00:02:56,036 Speaker 1: bust your fucking head or pop your eyes out and 42 00:02:56,036 --> 00:02:58,516 Speaker 1: gat him like grapes any and he'll lingo like that, 43 00:02:58,756 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 1: any any kind of Sometimes you gotta grab the person 44 00:03:01,076 --> 00:03:03,196 Speaker 1: by the throat. Sometimes you gotta grab you know, sometimes 45 00:03:03,196 --> 00:03:05,036 Speaker 1: you gotta you know, knock him out to break their 46 00:03:05,076 --> 00:03:10,316 Speaker 1: lose all defense. What the scenario is, perhaps inevitably Nick 47 00:03:10,636 --> 00:03:12,516 Speaker 1: or one of his guys would get in trouble with 48 00:03:12,596 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 1: the cops. When that happened, he knew he could count 49 00:03:15,996 --> 00:03:19,676 Speaker 1: on Bob. And the proof was the Harry Laman case. 50 00:03:20,436 --> 00:03:24,196 Speaker 1: When you get a guy that's a hitman and you 51 00:03:24,276 --> 00:03:27,116 Speaker 1: get him off of a major case, a murder case, 52 00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:30,556 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's gonna say. Everybody says, hey, I get 53 00:03:30,556 --> 00:03:33,516 Speaker 1: in trouble and going to Bob, which kind of makes 54 00:03:33,516 --> 00:03:35,956 Speaker 1: you wonder how'd Bob become the kind of guy who'd 55 00:03:35,956 --> 00:03:38,556 Speaker 1: do this anyway, who'd fix cases for the Mob and 56 00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:41,396 Speaker 1: think you could get away with it. In this episode, 57 00:03:41,436 --> 00:03:43,716 Speaker 1: we're going to take a hard look at how Bob 58 00:03:43,916 --> 00:03:47,076 Speaker 1: became Bob and where it all started to go wrong 59 00:03:47,116 --> 00:04:15,236 Speaker 1: for him. I'm Jake Halpern, and this is Deep Cover 60 00:04:15,756 --> 00:04:42,956 Speaker 1: mob Land episode four. The favorite son Bob had taken 61 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:47,276 Speaker 1: a big risk by getting involved with the Harry Lamon trial. First, 62 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:50,236 Speaker 1: he'd made a risky promise to Pat Marcy, the mob's 63 00:04:50,276 --> 00:04:53,836 Speaker 1: political czar, that he could fix the case. He'd also 64 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:57,676 Speaker 1: assured Harry that all would go well, and he targeted 65 00:04:57,716 --> 00:05:01,836 Speaker 1: a judge with an honorable reputation. The whole thing, start 66 00:05:01,876 --> 00:05:05,476 Speaker 1: to finish was very bold, but somehow or another, it 67 00:05:05,596 --> 00:05:09,676 Speaker 1: all worked out for Bob and the outfit. Anyhow, according 68 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:13,276 Speaker 1: to Bob, Harry the hitman, essentially became his pr guy 69 00:05:13,796 --> 00:05:16,476 Speaker 1: told him, listen, give me some of your cards, he said, 70 00:05:16,556 --> 00:05:19,836 Speaker 1: because I got all kinds of business, I got all 71 00:05:19,916 --> 00:05:22,476 Speaker 1: kinds of people. Now, he says, you're going to be 72 00:05:22,516 --> 00:05:25,676 Speaker 1: the top lawyer in the city. Business was better than 73 00:05:25,676 --> 00:05:29,356 Speaker 1: ever for Bob, but still he kept his guard up. 74 00:05:29,836 --> 00:05:33,236 Speaker 1: Bob says he always assumed everyone he met was wearing 75 00:05:33,236 --> 00:05:36,956 Speaker 1: a wire. This kind of paranoia kept him safe and 76 00:05:37,036 --> 00:05:40,996 Speaker 1: with new clients. Bob also avoided overpromising. He said, well, 77 00:05:41,076 --> 00:05:45,676 Speaker 1: but can you guarantee something? I can't guarantee anything. I'll 78 00:05:45,716 --> 00:05:48,316 Speaker 1: just do the best that I can. But his best 79 00:05:48,676 --> 00:05:51,476 Speaker 1: was plenty good enough. I've got thousands of friends, I 80 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:54,596 Speaker 1: mean thousands of friends in the city of Chicago. Bob 81 00:05:54,756 --> 00:05:58,196 Speaker 1: was living it up. I'm living a fantastic life. I've 82 00:05:58,236 --> 00:06:00,596 Speaker 1: got all the friends in the world. I've got sweethearts 83 00:06:00,596 --> 00:06:11,796 Speaker 1: coming up and down and all around. Sometimes I got 84 00:06:11,836 --> 00:06:14,996 Speaker 1: this sense from talking to Bob that being a lawyer 85 00:06:15,036 --> 00:06:17,676 Speaker 1: for the Mob was all glamor that he lived a 86 00:06:17,756 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 1: charmed life and look in many ways he did. According 87 00:06:21,476 --> 00:06:24,636 Speaker 1: to Bob, unless he was trying a case, his workdays 88 00:06:24,636 --> 00:06:28,876 Speaker 1: were generally over by midday. Then he'd grabbed lunch. Next 89 00:06:28,916 --> 00:06:31,716 Speaker 1: he'd have a steam bath and then a massage. In 90 00:06:31,756 --> 00:06:34,556 Speaker 1: the summer, he might hang out at his poolside cabana. 91 00:06:34,836 --> 00:06:37,396 Speaker 1: Otherwise he'd go back to the office, head to the 92 00:06:37,436 --> 00:06:40,876 Speaker 1: conference room, where he'd play cards. Jim was his game. 93 00:06:41,596 --> 00:06:45,196 Speaker 1: Then night he hit the clubs, or he fled to Vegas. 94 00:06:45,636 --> 00:06:48,636 Speaker 1: One time even had dinner with Frank Sinatra and picked 95 00:06:48,716 --> 00:06:57,316 Speaker 1: up the tab. This was Bob's life, but he was 96 00:06:57,356 --> 00:07:00,356 Speaker 1: still a lawyer who needed an office in a filing 97 00:07:00,396 --> 00:07:04,036 Speaker 1: cabinet and even a pencil sharpener, and he had this too. 98 00:07:04,916 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 1: He shared a workspace downtown with a few other lawyers, 99 00:07:08,156 --> 00:07:12,956 Speaker 1: including his brother Dennis Cooley. They actually use the same desk, 100 00:07:13,516 --> 00:07:16,396 Speaker 1: sort of like a timeshare. Well, we were in the 101 00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:18,316 Speaker 1: same office. He had literally in the same room and 102 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:21,756 Speaker 1: would just use it sometimes he'd use it sometimes. Dennis 103 00:07:21,796 --> 00:07:24,996 Speaker 1: was four years younger than Bob. He also started off 104 00:07:24,996 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 1: as a police officer, then became a lawyer. But here 105 00:07:28,876 --> 00:07:32,916 Speaker 1: their paths diverged sharply. Dennis went on to become a prosecutor, 106 00:07:33,116 --> 00:07:35,356 Speaker 1: and a good one. At some point he ran an 107 00:07:35,516 --> 00:07:38,116 Speaker 1: entire division. I talked to a bunch of people who 108 00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:40,996 Speaker 1: knew Dennis from back then, and they all pretty much 109 00:07:41,036 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 1: said the same thing. Dennis was an honest and honorable guy. Eventually, 110 00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:49,956 Speaker 1: Dennis decided to go into private practice, and like his brother, 111 00:07:50,236 --> 00:07:54,236 Speaker 1: he became a criminal defense lawyer. But unlike Bob, Dennis 112 00:07:54,276 --> 00:07:57,956 Speaker 1: was a clean criminal defense lawyer, which wasn't easy. He 113 00:07:58,036 --> 00:08:00,796 Speaker 1: was practicing law in a system where so many of 114 00:08:00,796 --> 00:08:04,516 Speaker 1: his competitors were guys who would place bribes. Of course, 115 00:08:04,516 --> 00:08:07,516 Speaker 1: I resented it, Yes, he absolutely resented it. I resented 116 00:08:07,516 --> 00:08:08,876 Speaker 1: the fact that I had to work hard from my 117 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:12,676 Speaker 1: money and these other guys didn't. You know, when you're 118 00:08:12,956 --> 00:08:15,316 Speaker 1: practicing law and you know you're a better attorney than 119 00:08:15,356 --> 00:08:17,596 Speaker 1: the next guy, and yet the next guy seems to win. 120 00:08:17,636 --> 00:08:20,556 Speaker 1: All these cases in front of these particular judges, and 121 00:08:20,636 --> 00:08:23,436 Speaker 1: it's like, this is bullshit, but that's the way it was. 122 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:26,756 Speaker 1: Dennis says that he didn't know the full extent of 123 00:08:26,836 --> 00:08:31,436 Speaker 1: Bob's shady dealings, but there were moments when he did 124 00:08:31,476 --> 00:08:33,396 Speaker 1: get a sense for what his brother was up to. 125 00:08:33,676 --> 00:08:36,156 Speaker 1: You know, some of the people who would who would 126 00:08:36,156 --> 00:08:38,676 Speaker 1: come in were not the kind of people I would 127 00:08:38,716 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 1: normally end up with as a client. Some of them were, 128 00:08:41,516 --> 00:08:45,156 Speaker 1: you know, outright scary looking. You know, I just kept 129 00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:47,156 Speaker 1: I just kept the hell away from him. Did you 130 00:08:47,196 --> 00:08:50,276 Speaker 1: ever pull Bob aside and say, like, what are you doing? 131 00:08:50,436 --> 00:08:53,756 Speaker 1: Cut it out? I don't. That would have been a complete, 132 00:08:53,836 --> 00:08:56,316 Speaker 1: total waste of time. I don't think he would have 133 00:08:56,316 --> 00:09:00,436 Speaker 1: listened to me. Interestingly, there were things about Bob that 134 00:09:00,556 --> 00:09:03,836 Speaker 1: Dennis seemed to admire. He said that Bob was really 135 00:09:03,876 --> 00:09:05,996 Speaker 1: good in front of a jury, that he really knew 136 00:09:05,996 --> 00:09:09,476 Speaker 1: how to connect with the jurors win them over. I 137 00:09:09,516 --> 00:09:12,996 Speaker 1: found believable. I mean, Bob could be very charming. He 138 00:09:13,076 --> 00:09:15,996 Speaker 1: also says that Bob wasn't afraid to stand up to bullies. 139 00:09:16,516 --> 00:09:18,956 Speaker 1: This was true when Bob was a kid. He was short. 140 00:09:19,036 --> 00:09:22,356 Speaker 1: Back then, people called him shrimp, which drove him crazy. 141 00:09:22,796 --> 00:09:25,356 Speaker 1: Dennis says, one time Bob got in a fight with 142 00:09:25,396 --> 00:09:28,636 Speaker 1: this much bigger kid. He was so much different in 143 00:09:28,916 --> 00:09:32,436 Speaker 1: size than this big guy. He would literally have to 144 00:09:32,516 --> 00:09:36,156 Speaker 1: jump up to hit him in the face, and he 145 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:38,916 Speaker 1: would do that, and he backed the big kid off. 146 00:09:39,516 --> 00:09:42,116 Speaker 1: And that kind of left the compression with me. How 147 00:09:42,196 --> 00:09:45,676 Speaker 1: aggressive he could be, you know, and how he wouldn't 148 00:09:45,716 --> 00:09:50,316 Speaker 1: back off from certain challenges. It also seemed telling to 149 00:09:50,356 --> 00:09:53,836 Speaker 1: me that Dennis found all of these reasons to admire Bob. 150 00:09:54,476 --> 00:09:56,756 Speaker 1: Dennis was a guy who saw the best in others, 151 00:09:57,396 --> 00:10:06,676 Speaker 1: even his shady brother. So there were the Coolie brothers, 152 00:10:06,676 --> 00:10:11,036 Speaker 1: Bob and Dennis sharing the exact Sam desk. It was 153 00:10:11,076 --> 00:10:14,676 Speaker 1: a powerful image. They seemed to be symbolic of the 154 00:10:14,756 --> 00:10:18,436 Speaker 1: two realms of the Chicago legal system, the clean and 155 00:10:18,596 --> 00:10:24,676 Speaker 1: the dirty, operating side by side, morally opposed but hopelessly interconnected. 156 00:10:25,836 --> 00:10:29,196 Speaker 1: And for me, it also raised the question how had 157 00:10:29,236 --> 00:10:32,876 Speaker 1: these two brothers turned out so differently. The Coolies were 158 00:10:32,916 --> 00:10:36,196 Speaker 1: known as a family of honest cops. Bob's parents were 159 00:10:36,236 --> 00:11:00,396 Speaker 1: devoutly religious, So what exactly happened with Bob. To really 160 00:11:00,476 --> 00:11:03,636 Speaker 1: understand Bob Cooley, We're going to go deep into his 161 00:11:03,716 --> 00:11:06,996 Speaker 1: relationship with his father. But I want to start by 162 00:11:07,036 --> 00:11:09,276 Speaker 1: giving you a picture of what the Coolie family was 163 00:11:09,396 --> 00:11:12,436 Speaker 1: like back when Bob was a kid. And to do this, 164 00:11:12,836 --> 00:11:15,156 Speaker 1: I got to take you back to the nineteen forties. 165 00:11:15,796 --> 00:11:18,276 Speaker 1: The family lived on the South side of Chicago in 166 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:21,676 Speaker 1: an Irish Catholic neighborhood. It was a good childhood. Actually 167 00:11:22,156 --> 00:11:26,356 Speaker 1: we were nine kids, so you know, so that is 168 00:11:26,356 --> 00:11:30,716 Speaker 1: an experience in itself. That's Tim Cooley, another one of 169 00:11:30,716 --> 00:11:34,756 Speaker 1: Bob's six brothers. He lives in Vermont now, and as 170 00:11:34,796 --> 00:11:38,036 Speaker 1: I tried to make sense of Bob's childhood, he became 171 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: my guide, my guru. Really. I am a massage therapist 172 00:11:42,636 --> 00:11:45,716 Speaker 1: and a yoga teacher, two things which really really make 173 00:11:45,796 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 1: me happy. I work at a gay run retreat center 174 00:11:51,396 --> 00:11:57,116 Speaker 1: doing yoga and massage. There. It's a community that is 175 00:11:57,156 --> 00:12:02,116 Speaker 1: about helping people grow, basically, helping people be the fullest 176 00:12:02,876 --> 00:12:06,756 Speaker 1: that they can be. Tim is Bob's younger brother, and 177 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:08,956 Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time reflecting on his child 178 00:12:09,116 --> 00:12:11,996 Speaker 1: hood and the Coolie family. He told me that their father, 179 00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:15,836 Speaker 1: Jim Coolie, was extremely pious. All the Coolie kids said 180 00:12:15,836 --> 00:12:18,476 Speaker 1: this by the way that their dad made them pray together. 181 00:12:19,036 --> 00:12:22,436 Speaker 1: Jim Cooley the dad actually went to a Catholic seminary 182 00:12:22,476 --> 00:12:25,356 Speaker 1: and studied for the priesthood before deciding to become a 183 00:12:25,436 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 1: cop and eventually a detective. And by all accounts, he 184 00:12:29,156 --> 00:12:32,916 Speaker 1: was an honest policeman, never took a bribe and didn't 185 00:12:32,956 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 1: look for trouble. Well, because my father was a really gentleman. 186 00:12:37,436 --> 00:12:40,396 Speaker 1: He was like the least macho man I've ever met 187 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:44,236 Speaker 1: in my life. To some degree, Yeah, he really was. 188 00:12:44,276 --> 00:12:47,276 Speaker 1: He was. I mean, he had an Irish temper mind, 189 00:12:47,316 --> 00:12:49,316 Speaker 1: you you know, so he would he would get angry 190 00:12:49,356 --> 00:12:52,876 Speaker 1: at times or whatever. But he was very he was 191 00:12:52,956 --> 00:12:56,196 Speaker 1: very mild. To be clear, Tim doesn't have any illusions 192 00:12:56,236 --> 00:12:59,276 Speaker 1: about his father. He told me straight up his dad 193 00:12:59,356 --> 00:13:03,316 Speaker 1: could be a racist. But for the most part, Tim 194 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:05,316 Speaker 1: says he has fond memories of growing up in the 195 00:13:05,356 --> 00:13:09,236 Speaker 1: coolie household. We never felt like we were without you 196 00:13:09,276 --> 00:13:10,916 Speaker 1: know we, I mean, we were just sort of the 197 00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:13,356 Speaker 1: same as everybody else. We thought we would have called 198 00:13:13,356 --> 00:13:16,836 Speaker 1: ourselves middle class, I guess. On the other hand, Bob 199 00:13:17,156 --> 00:13:19,876 Speaker 1: told me that his family grew up very poor. I 200 00:13:19,996 --> 00:13:22,756 Speaker 1: never had clothes. I never had new clothes as I 201 00:13:22,796 --> 00:13:25,836 Speaker 1: grew up. All my clothes were. You know, my mother 202 00:13:25,876 --> 00:13:29,916 Speaker 1: would be over basically at the school, begging, begging for 203 00:13:29,996 --> 00:13:32,516 Speaker 1: stuff because she had two you know, for the you know, 204 00:13:32,556 --> 00:13:35,236 Speaker 1: for the sake of the kids. And I was really 205 00:13:35,276 --> 00:13:38,916 Speaker 1: angry for a long time being born into a family 206 00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:41,956 Speaker 1: with all these kids. I really was. I was angry 207 00:13:41,956 --> 00:13:46,236 Speaker 1: at God because so many of people I knew had 208 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:49,476 Speaker 1: so much more than me. The worst for Bob was 209 00:13:49,516 --> 00:13:52,676 Speaker 1: when his mother took him shopping for groceries and scoured 210 00:13:52,716 --> 00:13:55,956 Speaker 1: the shelves for dented cans so she could ask the 211 00:13:55,996 --> 00:13:59,476 Speaker 1: clerk for a discount for a few pennies off. This 212 00:13:59,716 --> 00:14:03,476 Speaker 1: mortified Bob, I asked him about this. There you have 213 00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:09,916 Speaker 1: Bob and me a nutshell. The difference is that I 214 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:13,956 Speaker 1: would admire my mother for that, whereas Bob cared more 215 00:14:13,996 --> 00:14:17,836 Speaker 1: about how things looked or how things seemed to others. 216 00:14:18,356 --> 00:14:21,556 Speaker 1: I would say than I did as a kid. Bob 217 00:14:21,596 --> 00:14:24,716 Speaker 1: worked all kinds of jobs, but that pocket money only 218 00:14:24,756 --> 00:14:27,636 Speaker 1: got him so far, and he was still angry and 219 00:14:27,676 --> 00:14:31,236 Speaker 1: frustrated by what he didn't have. And that sort of 220 00:14:31,276 --> 00:14:38,636 Speaker 1: explains on some level, his drive to be financially successful. 221 00:14:40,036 --> 00:14:42,836 Speaker 1: Whatever it took for him to get that. He was 222 00:14:42,876 --> 00:14:47,876 Speaker 1: always driven on some level driven, and I guess you 223 00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:50,676 Speaker 1: would say a bit of a troublemaker quite frankly. I 224 00:14:50,716 --> 00:14:53,076 Speaker 1: mean he would be good at getting out of trouble 225 00:14:53,956 --> 00:14:57,316 Speaker 1: by hook or by crook basically, but he was always 226 00:14:57,316 --> 00:15:00,276 Speaker 1: sort of working an angle, and Bob admits to this. 227 00:15:00,716 --> 00:15:04,116 Speaker 1: He describes his childhood as one long tale of rule breaking, 228 00:15:04,436 --> 00:15:08,196 Speaker 1: cheating on tests, starting fights, skipping church. Let me tell you, 229 00:15:08,476 --> 00:15:11,116 Speaker 1: when it came to the coolie household Santa did not 230 00:15:11,196 --> 00:15:14,196 Speaker 1: have to check his list twice. And given all of this, 231 00:15:14,636 --> 00:15:18,196 Speaker 1: you might think that Bob's hero was well, Jesse James 232 00:15:18,316 --> 00:15:23,236 Speaker 1: or John Dillinger or some other scoff Law. Nope. Interestingly, 233 00:15:23,516 --> 00:15:26,036 Speaker 1: the one person that I always heard Bob speak of 234 00:15:26,076 --> 00:15:31,756 Speaker 1: with almost unflagging admiration was actually his dad. He extolled 235 00:15:31,796 --> 00:15:34,356 Speaker 1: his dad's virtues. I couldn't take when I was a 236 00:15:34,476 --> 00:15:37,316 Speaker 1: kid growing up. I'd go in there and steal candy 237 00:15:37,356 --> 00:15:39,676 Speaker 1: and stuff like that because I was hungry, and because 238 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:41,756 Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't. I have no money in my pockets. 239 00:15:42,076 --> 00:15:44,556 Speaker 1: My dad would never have done something like that. Did 240 00:15:44,596 --> 00:15:46,636 Speaker 1: you feel any sense of guilt or any sense that 241 00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:50,876 Speaker 1: you weren't living up to your dad's standards? No, no, 242 00:15:51,876 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 1: not at all. Honestly, this surprised me, given how much 243 00:15:56,636 --> 00:15:59,596 Speaker 1: he revered his dad. It seemed like maybe Bob would 244 00:15:59,636 --> 00:16:01,196 Speaker 1: just have a little bit of a hard time looking 245 00:16:01,236 --> 00:16:03,436 Speaker 1: his dad in the eye, or feel just a bit 246 00:16:03,516 --> 00:16:10,276 Speaker 1: cheapish about his transgressions. Nope, says Bob. There was one occasion, however, 247 00:16:10,596 --> 00:16:13,596 Speaker 1: when Bob seemed to push his father too far, when 248 00:16:13,636 --> 00:16:16,716 Speaker 1: he really tested the limits of their relationship, and as 249 00:16:16,756 --> 00:16:19,636 Speaker 1: you're about to hear, it was a defining moment for Bob. 250 00:16:20,196 --> 00:16:22,716 Speaker 1: It was a Sunday. Bob says he was about fourteen 251 00:16:22,796 --> 00:16:25,236 Speaker 1: years old. He'd been out in the alleyway doing what 252 00:16:25,316 --> 00:16:31,316 Speaker 1: kids did before cell phones, namely, throwing rocks. Bob ended 253 00:16:31,396 --> 00:16:35,116 Speaker 1: up breaking a neighbor's window. The neighbor walks over to 254 00:16:35,156 --> 00:16:38,356 Speaker 1: Bob's house, talks to Bob's mom, tells her what happened. 255 00:16:38,916 --> 00:16:42,356 Speaker 1: In a panic, Bob blames his brother Bill, says, Bill 256 00:16:42,396 --> 00:16:46,196 Speaker 1: broke the window. This lie, It doesn't hold up. The 257 00:16:46,276 --> 00:16:49,756 Speaker 1: neighbor points to Bob says he's the one who did this. 258 00:16:50,436 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: Bob says his mother was furious, and she tells him, basically, 259 00:16:54,276 --> 00:16:55,996 Speaker 1: your father will deal with you when he gets home 260 00:16:56,036 --> 00:17:00,516 Speaker 1: from work. A little while later, dad arrives and his 261 00:17:00,636 --> 00:17:04,356 Speaker 1: mom launches right into it. Jem, that's this is a 262 00:17:05,076 --> 00:17:07,796 Speaker 1: you know, he's out of control. This is thing going 263 00:17:07,876 --> 00:17:10,716 Speaker 1: on too long? Time you give and that she tells 264 00:17:10,756 --> 00:17:14,676 Speaker 1: him what happened. His dad is not happy. I mean here, 265 00:17:14,716 --> 00:17:16,756 Speaker 1: he's come back from a long day of work, walking 266 00:17:16,796 --> 00:17:19,476 Speaker 1: the streets and forcing the law, and he learns that 267 00:17:19,516 --> 00:17:22,356 Speaker 1: his troublemaker's son has broken a window and then framed 268 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:25,956 Speaker 1: his brother. And mom is pissed. Something has to be 269 00:17:25,956 --> 00:17:30,156 Speaker 1: done about this, so his dad escorts Bob to the bedroom. 270 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:33,276 Speaker 1: We go in there, he gets his police stuff, there's 271 00:17:33,316 --> 00:17:36,676 Speaker 1: old policeman stuff, and then he goes and he closes 272 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:40,196 Speaker 1: the door and he tells me, bend over the bed. 273 00:17:41,156 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 1: I bend over the bed and he starts hitting the bed. 274 00:17:46,196 --> 00:17:50,516 Speaker 1: Mind you, his dad is not actually whipping Bob. He's 275 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:55,036 Speaker 1: just pretending to whip him. And you could hear this thump, thump, thump, 276 00:17:55,836 --> 00:17:59,956 Speaker 1: And I start hollering, pretending I've heard him, and I 277 00:17:59,956 --> 00:18:05,836 Speaker 1: guess I'm I'm screaming real loud. You know. Oh my 278 00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:08,156 Speaker 1: mother now thinks she's beating me half to death. I 279 00:18:08,196 --> 00:18:13,036 Speaker 1: guess she opens the door. I laugh now I didn't laugh. 280 00:18:13,076 --> 00:18:17,796 Speaker 1: Then she opens the door and here he is, and 281 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:21,316 Speaker 1: here I am, and I look up and she goes ballistic. 282 00:18:22,116 --> 00:18:26,236 Speaker 1: She goes ballistic because she's caught onto the ruse. And 283 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:30,116 Speaker 1: at this point she's not happy with Bob or her husband. 284 00:18:30,556 --> 00:18:32,716 Speaker 1: What's the matter with you, that's why he's the way 285 00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:36,436 Speaker 1: he is or whatever? And my dad got it so 286 00:18:36,716 --> 00:18:39,996 Speaker 1: shook my dad up. He started hitting me with the belt. 287 00:18:41,116 --> 00:18:43,676 Speaker 1: I got into the bed because I mean he was 288 00:18:43,716 --> 00:18:47,516 Speaker 1: like a madman for a minute. And when I come 289 00:18:47,636 --> 00:18:49,716 Speaker 1: under the bed, he grabbed the bed with one hand, 290 00:18:49,916 --> 00:18:54,076 Speaker 1: picked the bed up, started trying to hit me under 291 00:18:54,076 --> 00:18:58,476 Speaker 1: the bed another couple of times. And I'm crying because 292 00:18:58,516 --> 00:19:01,796 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it hurt, It really hurt. And 293 00:19:01,836 --> 00:19:04,836 Speaker 1: then get in your room. I go in the room. 294 00:19:09,396 --> 00:19:21,636 Speaker 1: H m hm, Wait, Bob, what got you? What? What 295 00:19:21,756 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: got you so upset all of a sudden? What did that? 296 00:19:24,196 --> 00:19:32,556 Speaker 1: What was that about? I just saw him coming in 297 00:19:32,676 --> 00:19:47,116 Speaker 1: the room. I just saw him coming in the room. 298 00:19:47,156 --> 00:19:55,836 Speaker 1: He came in the room and he was crying, I mean, 299 00:19:56,956 --> 00:20:17,436 Speaker 1: I mean crying and he comes over. H I'm I'm 300 00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:21,356 Speaker 1: laying in the bed and he's on his knees apologized 301 00:20:21,396 --> 00:20:39,476 Speaker 1: to debate for her doing what he is, and all 302 00:20:39,516 --> 00:20:41,836 Speaker 1: the times that we talked, this is one of the 303 00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:45,916 Speaker 1: only times I heard Bob like this. Somehow he was 304 00:20:45,956 --> 00:20:49,756 Speaker 1: shaken by this memory of his father, the good cop, 305 00:20:50,116 --> 00:20:53,996 Speaker 1: the pious man, the almost priest who's been flummixed by 306 00:20:53,996 --> 00:20:58,316 Speaker 1: his son's constant transgressions, the gentle dad who finally been 307 00:20:58,316 --> 00:21:01,236 Speaker 1: pushed to the point of violence, and then, in a 308 00:21:01,316 --> 00:21:04,956 Speaker 1: fit of shame, the distraught man who'd come back and 309 00:21:05,036 --> 00:21:09,596 Speaker 1: asked for his son's forgiveness. Remembering all this seemed to 310 00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:14,116 Speaker 1: upset Bob horribly, and the pain it seemed to me, anyhow, 311 00:21:14,716 --> 00:21:17,796 Speaker 1: was not in his father's disappointment, not in what his 312 00:21:17,836 --> 00:21:21,036 Speaker 1: father had done to him, but in what he had 313 00:21:21,076 --> 00:21:24,116 Speaker 1: done to his father, and the love his father still 314 00:21:24,156 --> 00:21:32,036 Speaker 1: felt for him despite it all. I don't think, you know, 315 00:21:33,516 --> 00:21:36,116 Speaker 1: I don't know of anybody who has a more interesting 316 00:21:36,156 --> 00:21:40,236 Speaker 1: relationship with a father, probably than me, Because like I said, 317 00:21:40,276 --> 00:21:42,076 Speaker 1: I did all the things I did as a kid. 318 00:21:42,956 --> 00:21:45,236 Speaker 1: You would think he would be, you know, I'd be 319 00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:48,236 Speaker 1: I'd be the worse in his mind of the kids. 320 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:50,396 Speaker 1: And yet even though I'm always getting in trouble and 321 00:21:50,516 --> 00:21:53,876 Speaker 1: doing all these things, he always treated me as his 322 00:21:53,956 --> 00:21:57,476 Speaker 1: favorite in every way. You know, the fact he wouldn't 323 00:21:57,476 --> 00:21:59,756 Speaker 1: discipline me, He didn't believe in laying a hand on me, 324 00:21:59,876 --> 00:22:04,156 Speaker 1: things like that. It was an unbelievable relationship that I had. 325 00:22:04,756 --> 00:22:08,196 Speaker 1: Did you think he was Do you think he was 326 00:22:08,236 --> 00:22:13,596 Speaker 1: disappointed in you when you were up to no good? 327 00:22:14,036 --> 00:22:16,716 Speaker 1: The fact is he was not. I mean, I was 328 00:22:16,796 --> 00:22:20,156 Speaker 1: still his favorite son in every way. I mean, what 329 00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:24,156 Speaker 1: where can I say? Bob told me this repeatedly, that 330 00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:27,396 Speaker 1: he was his dad's favorite son. This got me thinking 331 00:22:27,396 --> 00:22:29,996 Speaker 1: about what kind of dad, Jim cool he was. So 332 00:22:30,076 --> 00:22:33,956 Speaker 1: I asked Tim, My father loved all his sons, has 333 00:22:34,036 --> 00:22:36,836 Speaker 1: loved all his children. He really did, but it was 334 00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:41,756 Speaker 1: it wasn't a very demonstrative sort of love, you know. 335 00:22:42,436 --> 00:22:45,836 Speaker 1: I mean he would he would tell each one of us, 336 00:22:46,116 --> 00:22:48,876 Speaker 1: you know, you're my favorite son. You know, you'd roll 337 00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:50,796 Speaker 1: your eyes and you'd know, you would you know that 338 00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:54,316 Speaker 1: he was meaning, he was meaning something to be you know, 339 00:22:54,756 --> 00:22:57,636 Speaker 1: to be meaningful. I mean, he was basically saying I 340 00:22:57,716 --> 00:22:59,916 Speaker 1: love you, but he had a hard time saying it. 341 00:23:00,676 --> 00:23:04,876 Speaker 1: And here is yet another crucial difference between Bob and Tim. 342 00:23:05,556 --> 00:23:10,036 Speaker 1: When Dad told Bob, you're my favorite son, Bob absolutely 343 00:23:10,076 --> 00:23:13,516 Speaker 1: believed him. Took the gesture at face value, almost like 344 00:23:13,836 --> 00:23:17,476 Speaker 1: confirmation that despite everything he'd done, that he hadn't come 345 00:23:17,556 --> 00:23:20,796 Speaker 1: up short in his father's eyes, that he still always 346 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:24,396 Speaker 1: had the blessing of the pious man. And for Bob, 347 00:23:24,636 --> 00:23:27,276 Speaker 1: as far as I could tell, this seemed to be 348 00:23:27,676 --> 00:23:32,276 Speaker 1: like a green light. As for their mom, Tim told 349 00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,956 Speaker 1: me she was at a loss on how to raise 350 00:23:35,036 --> 00:23:38,796 Speaker 1: Bob and hold him accountable. Bob was such a handful 351 00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:43,236 Speaker 1: that she didn't know how to deal with it, and 352 00:23:43,316 --> 00:23:47,036 Speaker 1: I think she saw him getting away with stuff. And 353 00:23:47,876 --> 00:23:52,116 Speaker 1: I think that has that kind of explains Bob on 354 00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:56,356 Speaker 1: some level, is that he never really paid the consequences 355 00:23:56,396 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 1: for his actions, which is why maybe he was willing 356 00:24:00,596 --> 00:24:05,636 Speaker 1: to do actions that were really beyond the pale. Ultimately, 357 00:24:08,436 --> 00:24:11,516 Speaker 1: when Tim told me this, I started to see it. 358 00:24:12,196 --> 00:24:14,236 Speaker 1: Bob grew up in a home where he could flout 359 00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:17,436 Speaker 1: the rules, and he came of age in a city 360 00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:21,356 Speaker 1: where the rules meant even less. There was no accountability 361 00:24:21,356 --> 00:24:24,996 Speaker 1: for Bob anywhere, no one he had to answer to, 362 00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:43,756 Speaker 1: except of course, the mob. Ever, since he was a kid, 363 00:24:44,036 --> 00:24:46,876 Speaker 1: Bob had a rebellious streak. I guess he could say 364 00:24:46,916 --> 00:24:50,396 Speaker 1: he had issues with authority, and that pretty much never changed. 365 00:24:50,996 --> 00:24:53,556 Speaker 1: Even years later, when he was a grown man and 366 00:24:53,596 --> 00:24:56,676 Speaker 1: a lawyer for the Mob, Bob was still throwing rocks 367 00:24:56,676 --> 00:25:00,316 Speaker 1: and breaking windows, testing the limits. And I'm going to 368 00:25:00,396 --> 00:25:03,156 Speaker 1: tell you a story about a situation Bob found himself 369 00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:06,156 Speaker 1: in the real crossroads where he took it upon himself 370 00:25:06,236 --> 00:25:09,516 Speaker 1: to challenge the Mob and its power, which he would 371 00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:13,236 Speaker 1: find out wasn't so wise. There'd be no fake spankings 372 00:25:13,316 --> 00:25:19,756 Speaker 1: for this offense. So it's nineteen eighty one. Bob is 373 00:25:19,796 --> 00:25:22,756 Speaker 1: representing a friend of his, a gangster who'd gotten in 374 00:25:22,796 --> 00:25:26,076 Speaker 1: trouble with the law, a guy named Frank Rannella. And 375 00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:28,956 Speaker 1: one day Bob hears from a prosecutor in the case 376 00:25:29,236 --> 00:25:32,276 Speaker 1: who tells him, essentially, there's something you need to know 377 00:25:32,316 --> 00:25:36,036 Speaker 1: about your client, Frank. He's been a government informant in 378 00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:41,716 Speaker 1: the past. Bob understood immediately that this would be a 379 00:25:41,796 --> 00:25:45,636 Speaker 1: death sentence for Frank. The Mob would murder any insiders 380 00:25:45,676 --> 00:25:48,196 Speaker 1: who cooperated with the FEDS. That was a hard and 381 00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:51,756 Speaker 1: fast rule, But you know how Bob is with rules. 382 00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:55,796 Speaker 1: And besides, for Bob, this whole thing just felt wrong 383 00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:58,636 Speaker 1: in his gut. If somebody told me they were going 384 00:25:58,716 --> 00:26:02,036 Speaker 1: to kill somebody, and I knew that they were going 385 00:26:02,116 --> 00:26:04,356 Speaker 1: to do it. I would have found a way to 386 00:26:05,116 --> 00:26:08,596 Speaker 1: warn them. That's just me. Bob says he decided to 387 00:26:08,596 --> 00:26:14,716 Speaker 1: help his friend and client escape. I drove right to 388 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:17,676 Speaker 1: Frank's house, and when I went upstairs to his apartment 389 00:26:17,716 --> 00:26:20,276 Speaker 1: and I told him, he puts a gun on me. 390 00:26:21,076 --> 00:26:23,676 Speaker 1: He thinks I'm initially he thinks I'm setting him up, 391 00:26:24,636 --> 00:26:27,876 Speaker 1: and he says, I'm leaving now, and you're walking out 392 00:26:27,916 --> 00:26:31,436 Speaker 1: in front of me. If they're out there, as Bob 393 00:26:31,476 --> 00:26:36,356 Speaker 1: tells it, Frank walks outside, looks around and sees that 394 00:26:36,436 --> 00:26:39,316 Speaker 1: no one is waiting for him, so he realizes this 395 00:26:39,356 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 1: does not appear to be a setup, understands that Bob 396 00:26:42,236 --> 00:26:46,916 Speaker 1: was truly just trying to help him. Frank passed away 397 00:26:46,916 --> 00:26:49,436 Speaker 1: over twenty years ago, so I couldn't talk to him 398 00:26:49,476 --> 00:26:52,276 Speaker 1: and get his version of events, but I did track 399 00:26:52,316 --> 00:26:56,396 Speaker 1: down his widow, Faye Ronella. She still remembers Bob's visit. 400 00:26:57,076 --> 00:26:59,556 Speaker 1: He gives he had this air about him, a very 401 00:26:59,676 --> 00:27:03,996 Speaker 1: arrogant above it all, so to speak. I just didn't 402 00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:07,676 Speaker 1: care for him. After Bob arrived, Faye says that he 403 00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:10,836 Speaker 1: and Frank went off to talk in private. I sat 404 00:27:10,876 --> 00:27:13,436 Speaker 1: in the front room while Bob Cooley talked to Frank 405 00:27:13,596 --> 00:27:16,556 Speaker 1: in the bedroom. I wasn't a privy to their conversation. 406 00:27:16,996 --> 00:27:20,156 Speaker 1: Frank later told Faye that he was in trouble. They're 407 00:27:20,156 --> 00:27:22,116 Speaker 1: going to try and get me, is actually what he 408 00:27:22,196 --> 00:27:26,036 Speaker 1: said at them, meaning the mob. I was assuming at 409 00:27:26,076 --> 00:27:28,116 Speaker 1: the time, they're going to try and find a way 410 00:27:28,236 --> 00:27:30,676 Speaker 1: to get me, put me out of the picture if 411 00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:34,356 Speaker 1: I go to court. Frank told her he had to 412 00:27:34,356 --> 00:27:37,596 Speaker 1: get out of town. She was devastated by the news. 413 00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:42,076 Speaker 1: I mean, he was everything to me, even though he 414 00:27:43,116 --> 00:27:46,156 Speaker 1: told me it's the very beginning of our relationship. He says, 415 00:27:46,156 --> 00:27:47,996 Speaker 1: I want you to know something from the get go. 416 00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:51,436 Speaker 1: He says, I'm nothing but a fourteen tarrot bum, A 417 00:27:51,556 --> 00:27:57,076 Speaker 1: fourteen carrot bum, gold on the outside, bum on the inside, 418 00:27:57,316 --> 00:27:59,956 Speaker 1: like a warning to me, you get involved with me, 419 00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:03,836 Speaker 1: this is what you're getting involved with. Okay. And now 420 00:28:03,916 --> 00:28:07,796 Speaker 1: it was almost like Frank's prophecy had come true. Trouble 421 00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:10,956 Speaker 1: had finally arrived at the doorstep of the fourteen carrot 422 00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:16,276 Speaker 1: bum as predicted. Luckily, with Bob's help, Frank had gotten away, 423 00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:23,356 Speaker 1: but now Bob was on the hook. I went back 424 00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:27,236 Speaker 1: and asked Nick the Gangster about this. He remembers when 425 00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:30,596 Speaker 1: all of this happened, and he appreciated the enormity of 426 00:28:30,596 --> 00:28:33,516 Speaker 1: what Bob had done, the risk he had taken. You 427 00:28:33,716 --> 00:28:35,956 Speaker 1: do things like that, you're telling the guy that you're 428 00:28:35,956 --> 00:28:38,676 Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna get whack. Well, you're giving him two avenues. 429 00:28:38,876 --> 00:28:41,116 Speaker 1: If he's got money, he can run. If he doesn't 430 00:28:41,116 --> 00:28:42,796 Speaker 1: have money, or even if he has money, he could 431 00:28:42,876 --> 00:28:45,996 Speaker 1: run run into the arms of the FBI. Meaning you've 432 00:28:45,996 --> 00:28:48,396 Speaker 1: given him a chance to switch sides in order to 433 00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:51,796 Speaker 1: save his own skin. And now he might talk, spill 434 00:28:51,836 --> 00:28:55,716 Speaker 1: his guts. So what Bob had done, it was no 435 00:28:55,836 --> 00:29:02,476 Speaker 1: small thing. There would be consequences. Would Bob have understood 436 00:29:02,476 --> 00:29:05,716 Speaker 1: that when he did that? Yes, oh yeah, Bob knod 437 00:29:05,716 --> 00:29:07,316 Speaker 1: he interwork, he said, a mob better than some of 438 00:29:07,356 --> 00:29:10,596 Speaker 1: the Bob guys. So what's your sense for why Bob 439 00:29:10,636 --> 00:29:16,756 Speaker 1: did that? Loyalty? Well, Bob's a loyal guy. Bob wasn't 440 00:29:16,836 --> 00:29:19,436 Speaker 1: didn't want anybody to get hurt, and Bob doing that 441 00:29:19,636 --> 00:29:24,156 Speaker 1: he crossed the line big time. Bob understood this, and 442 00:29:24,236 --> 00:29:28,636 Speaker 1: so he wasn't entirely surprised when shortly after this he 443 00:29:28,716 --> 00:29:30,996 Speaker 1: got a tip that his own life was in danger, 444 00:29:31,756 --> 00:29:41,156 Speaker 1: so Bob ran for it. I flew out of town, 445 00:29:41,356 --> 00:29:43,636 Speaker 1: went through California. I was there for about a week, 446 00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:47,356 Speaker 1: and I said to myself, you know enough of this. 447 00:29:47,516 --> 00:29:50,076 Speaker 1: I can't you know, I can't live like this. I 448 00:29:50,196 --> 00:29:51,716 Speaker 1: got to go back and I got to get it 449 00:29:51,716 --> 00:29:56,236 Speaker 1: straightened out. He flew back home and decided to drop 450 00:29:56,276 --> 00:29:58,676 Speaker 1: in on one of the mob bosses, who he knew 451 00:29:58,716 --> 00:30:02,796 Speaker 1: pretty well. It was a Wednesday, and this is important 452 00:30:02,796 --> 00:30:05,476 Speaker 1: because Bob knew that this mob boss went to the 453 00:30:05,556 --> 00:30:09,436 Speaker 1: same restaurant every Wednesday to meet with his guys, sat 454 00:30:09,476 --> 00:30:11,476 Speaker 1: at the same big table right in front of a 455 00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:16,036 Speaker 1: picture window. Bob says, he just shows up unannounced and 456 00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:19,436 Speaker 1: motions for the boss to follow him to the bathroom. 457 00:30:19,476 --> 00:30:22,636 Speaker 1: And here Bob makes the case for why he should 458 00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:25,276 Speaker 1: be allowed to live. I said I did nothing wrong. 459 00:30:25,556 --> 00:30:28,196 Speaker 1: I said, Frank is my friend, he was your friend. 460 00:30:28,236 --> 00:30:30,636 Speaker 1: He did nothing to hurt you people. He wasn't wearing 461 00:30:30,676 --> 00:30:33,316 Speaker 1: a wire and you guys or anything. But I want 462 00:30:33,396 --> 00:30:36,476 Speaker 1: you to know too that you know I did nothing wrong. 463 00:30:37,516 --> 00:30:39,236 Speaker 1: I did what I thought was the right thing, and 464 00:30:39,516 --> 00:30:42,036 Speaker 1: it didn't hurt you people in any way. I said, 465 00:30:42,156 --> 00:30:45,556 Speaker 1: I'm back now. I'm here to stay. I said, if 466 00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:48,476 Speaker 1: anybody thinks for one second, I'm gonna even take a beating, 467 00:30:48,996 --> 00:30:52,356 Speaker 1: I said. You know they're thinking wrong, I said, And 468 00:30:52,436 --> 00:30:54,516 Speaker 1: if I think I got a problem with you, I said, 469 00:30:54,556 --> 00:31:01,036 Speaker 1: you're going to have the fucking problem. And kind of 470 00:31:01,076 --> 00:31:05,636 Speaker 1: amazingly this seemed to work. They let Bob be and 471 00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:09,436 Speaker 1: I have to confess I found this really odd, kind 472 00:31:09,436 --> 00:31:12,716 Speaker 1: of hard to believe. I mean, really, Bob makes his 473 00:31:12,796 --> 00:31:15,796 Speaker 1: impassioned don't you dare kill me speech in the bathroom, 474 00:31:16,316 --> 00:31:19,836 Speaker 1: offers his moral justification for what he's done, throws in 475 00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:23,276 Speaker 1: a bit of tough talk, and all is forgiven. It 476 00:31:23,396 --> 00:31:27,236 Speaker 1: seemed well too easy. So I asked Nick the gangster 477 00:31:27,316 --> 00:31:29,756 Speaker 1: about this. He had to keep on doing what he's 478 00:31:29,756 --> 00:31:32,236 Speaker 1: doing because Bob was a fixer, and they knew he 479 00:31:32,316 --> 00:31:35,436 Speaker 1: was a fixer. He says, Bob didn't really walk free. 480 00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:37,916 Speaker 1: It was more like the mob had done a little 481 00:31:37,996 --> 00:31:42,036 Speaker 1: risk assessment on Bob and decided it wasn't worth killing 482 00:31:42,116 --> 00:31:46,476 Speaker 1: him for now. So as long as Bob kept being useful, 483 00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:49,156 Speaker 1: as long as he kept fixing cases for the mob, 484 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:52,996 Speaker 1: he was safe. But that meant he couldn't just walk 485 00:31:53,036 --> 00:31:55,596 Speaker 1: away if he said I'm want to quit, I'm gonna 486 00:31:55,636 --> 00:31:58,036 Speaker 1: walk away after everything he'd done or all the cases 487 00:31:58,036 --> 00:32:00,876 Speaker 1: he fix, did he know in this knowledge he has, 488 00:32:01,476 --> 00:32:04,996 Speaker 1: they were definitely killed. But Bob couldn't quit. Bob was 489 00:32:05,036 --> 00:32:07,796 Speaker 1: a lawyer, but he was like a mobster to you 490 00:32:07,916 --> 00:32:12,436 Speaker 1: just can't quit. So yeah, he was trapped, and it 491 00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:15,116 Speaker 1: was a diabolically clever trap if you think about it. 492 00:32:15,596 --> 00:32:17,996 Speaker 1: You got drawn into the mob by the allure of it, 493 00:32:18,036 --> 00:32:21,876 Speaker 1: all the money, the power, the glamor. But you did 494 00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:24,436 Speaker 1: what you were told, and if you tried to assert 495 00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:27,836 Speaker 1: yourself or follow your own code, you did so at 496 00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:31,596 Speaker 1: your own peril, because then the trap tightened, and then 497 00:32:31,636 --> 00:32:33,756 Speaker 1: you really had to do what you were told, or 498 00:32:33,796 --> 00:32:37,796 Speaker 1: one day you ended up in the headlines dead, just 499 00:32:37,836 --> 00:32:47,076 Speaker 1: another mob hit. Throughout this time, In fact, throughout Bob's 500 00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:49,876 Speaker 1: entire tenure as a lawyer for the mob, he says 501 00:32:49,996 --> 00:32:52,476 Speaker 1: he never really discussed what he did with his mom 502 00:32:52,676 --> 00:32:55,916 Speaker 1: or his dad, though there were moments when he got 503 00:32:55,956 --> 00:32:58,156 Speaker 1: a sense for what his dad thought about the mob, 504 00:32:58,876 --> 00:33:01,476 Speaker 1: like once Bob took his parents out to dinner at 505 00:33:01,476 --> 00:33:05,636 Speaker 1: his restaurant, Greco's, and as it so happened, Pat Marcy 506 00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,396 Speaker 1: was also there that night with one of his associates. 507 00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:12,676 Speaker 1: If you remember, Marcy was the mob's political tsar, the 508 00:33:12,716 --> 00:33:16,596 Speaker 1: guy who asked Bob to fix the hitman trial. Anyway, 509 00:33:16,676 --> 00:33:19,796 Speaker 1: as Marcy and his friend got up to leave, Bob says, 510 00:33:19,796 --> 00:33:23,276 Speaker 1: his dad turned to him and said, son, I used 511 00:33:23,276 --> 00:33:26,676 Speaker 1: to arrest those people. Bob wasn't sure what to make 512 00:33:26,716 --> 00:33:29,516 Speaker 1: of this. His father's memory had started to go at 513 00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:33,356 Speaker 1: that point, but even so, it was an unsettling thought 514 00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:36,716 Speaker 1: that Bob might be in bed with his father's old enemies. 515 00:33:37,876 --> 00:33:41,436 Speaker 1: Then sometime after this, Bob's father's health took a turn 516 00:33:41,476 --> 00:33:44,556 Speaker 1: for the worse. Bob went to see him in the hospital. 517 00:33:45,116 --> 00:33:48,316 Speaker 1: His dad was in bed and looked very weak. I 518 00:33:48,436 --> 00:33:52,436 Speaker 1: was there for about maybe fifteen twenty minutes, and I 519 00:33:52,436 --> 00:33:54,876 Speaker 1: could see he was getting worse and worse. And that's 520 00:33:54,876 --> 00:33:58,156 Speaker 1: when he suddenly looks at me and he he was like, 521 00:33:58,756 --> 00:34:00,916 Speaker 1: you know, not that lucid for a period of time 522 00:34:00,956 --> 00:34:04,916 Speaker 1: and he just looks up at me and he says, son, 523 00:34:05,396 --> 00:34:07,916 Speaker 1: He says, son, why are you wasting your god given 524 00:34:07,996 --> 00:34:14,076 Speaker 1: talents with these people? These people He didn't have to 525 00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:16,556 Speaker 1: specify who they were. It was almost like he was 526 00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:22,516 Speaker 1: speaking in Bob's code, saying without saying, but Bob, he understood. 527 00:34:22,996 --> 00:34:26,276 Speaker 1: He was talking about all the gangsters and corrupt politicians. 528 00:34:26,836 --> 00:34:30,076 Speaker 1: He was talking about the mob writ large. He was 529 00:34:30,116 --> 00:34:36,476 Speaker 1: asking Bob, what are you doing with these guys? And 530 00:34:36,516 --> 00:34:38,996 Speaker 1: then his father said one more thing. He brought up 531 00:34:39,036 --> 00:34:41,716 Speaker 1: a bit of family history that Bob knew very little about. 532 00:34:42,396 --> 00:34:45,756 Speaker 1: It involved Bob's grandfather, who was also a cop and 533 00:34:45,836 --> 00:34:49,236 Speaker 1: had been killed on the job. He said, you realize 534 00:34:49,276 --> 00:34:53,636 Speaker 1: that my father, the person who killed my father, got 535 00:34:53,676 --> 00:34:57,516 Speaker 1: off because the case was fixed. I was like in 536 00:34:57,556 --> 00:35:00,756 Speaker 1: a state of shock because I had never known that. 537 00:35:01,076 --> 00:35:03,276 Speaker 1: I had never you know, I had never realized that. 538 00:35:03,436 --> 00:35:06,356 Speaker 1: You know, it was the first word people that in 539 00:35:06,436 --> 00:35:08,476 Speaker 1: this case was fixed. I just know that he was 540 00:35:08,556 --> 00:35:12,516 Speaker 1: killed as lum. According to Bob, these were among the 541 00:35:12,636 --> 00:35:15,916 Speaker 1: very last words that his father ever said to him. 542 00:35:16,036 --> 00:35:19,916 Speaker 1: It was like he was giving me a message. I 543 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:22,996 Speaker 1: can't tell you that the story about Bob's grandfather is 544 00:35:23,196 --> 00:35:26,596 Speaker 1: entirely true. He was a cop and was killed on 545 00:35:26,636 --> 00:35:30,116 Speaker 1: the job, and the alleged killer was acquitted. But the 546 00:35:30,156 --> 00:35:33,996 Speaker 1: whole bit about the first word guys fixing this case, well, 547 00:35:34,236 --> 00:35:39,796 Speaker 1: that's more like family legend. What does seem clear to 548 00:35:39,836 --> 00:35:43,516 Speaker 1: me anyhow, is that Bob's dad was sending him a message, 549 00:35:43,716 --> 00:35:47,556 Speaker 1: a final bit of fatherly advice. It was like, after 550 00:35:47,596 --> 00:35:50,676 Speaker 1: all those years of going easy on Bob, of not 551 00:35:50,836 --> 00:35:54,356 Speaker 1: disciplining him, his dad was finally putting his foot down, 552 00:35:54,876 --> 00:35:58,476 Speaker 1: telling him what he really thought, What are you doing 553 00:35:58,516 --> 00:36:02,436 Speaker 1: with these guys? And this raised a delica question for Bob. 554 00:36:03,196 --> 00:36:07,236 Speaker 1: Could he escape because it didn't seem like the mob 555 00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:11,076 Speaker 1: would let him go naked? The gangster had said it best. 556 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:15,236 Speaker 1: Bob was a lawyer, but he was like a mobster too, 557 00:36:16,316 --> 00:36:29,796 Speaker 1: and you just can't quit next time. A Deep cover 558 00:36:30,196 --> 00:36:33,756 Speaker 1: the world of Chicago Justice a buzz with scandal press 559 00:36:33,836 --> 00:36:37,436 Speaker 1: leaks of a huge undercover investigation into bribery in the 560 00:36:37,516 --> 00:37:09,996 Speaker 1: nation's largest and busiest court system. Deep is produced by 561 00:37:10,076 --> 00:37:13,916 Speaker 1: Jacob Smith and Amy Gaines and edited by Karen Shakurgie. 562 00:37:14,196 --> 00:37:17,596 Speaker 1: Our senior editor is Jan Guera. Original music in our 563 00:37:17,636 --> 00:37:20,596 Speaker 1: theme was composed by Luise Gara and Fawn Williams as 564 00:37:20,636 --> 00:37:23,716 Speaker 1: our engineer. Our art this season was drawn by Cheryl 565 00:37:23,796 --> 00:37:27,276 Speaker 1: Cook and designed by Sean Karney. Mia Lobell is our 566 00:37:27,316 --> 00:37:32,556 Speaker 1: executive producer. Special thanks to Heather Fain John Schnarz, Carl mcgliori, 567 00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:37,876 Speaker 1: Maya Kaning, Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Mary Beth Smith, Brant Haynes, 568 00:37:38,076 --> 00:37:43,916 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Nicolemrano, Megan Larson, Royston Baserve, Lucy Sullivan, Edith Russlo, 569 00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:49,876 Speaker 1: Riley Sullivan, Jason Gambrell, Martin Gonzalez, and Jacob Weisberg. I'm 570 00:37:49,956 --> 00:38:36,516 Speaker 1: Jake Halbern. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can binge 571 00:38:36,516 --> 00:38:39,956 Speaker 1: the rest of the season right now ads free. Find 572 00:38:39,956 --> 00:38:42,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover show page in Apple 573 00:38:42,796 --> 00:38:48,116 Speaker 1: Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, 574 00:38:48,436 --> 00:38:53,036 Speaker 1: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 575 00:38:53,116 --> 00:38:54,316 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts.