1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: This is Buzznight. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 2: I host the Taking a Walk Music History on Foot podcast. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: Find us on all the podcast platforms and also you 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: can go to our website at takin awalk dot com. 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: You could not only hear all the episodes, but you 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: can also read the transcripts. You can leave us suggestions 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: or feedback as well. On this Taking a Walk classic replay. 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: Let's go back to November twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: We're just outside of Nashville, Tennessee, to meet up with 10 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: the amazing, awesome Amanda Shires, multi talented singer, songwriter, incredible 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 2: fiddle player. I remember that afternoon so well when our 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: plan walk was disrupted due to a thunderstorm and you 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: could hear the storm rumbling in the background as we're 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: talking inside Amanda's barn. What a great afternoon. It was 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: stories of John Prime, Leonard Cohen and her creative process. Well, 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: welcome Amanda Shires. 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Next on taking a Walk, Oh, Amanda Shire, is it's 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: so nice to be with you? Sort of taking a walk. 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: We took a walk from the cars to the barn. 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: We had a plan, but mother nature had. 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 3: Its way, yep, or one of those other gods. 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: But we're okay, we're inside your beautiful surroundings here. 23 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 4: You call this the barn of internal wandering, And why 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 4: that I think for me, part of the way my 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 4: process works is that I don't try to get in 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 4: the way of that part of the brain that needs 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 4: to find its own way or do its own thing 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 4: when you're creating. So if I wake up in the 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 4: morning and I do my medicine, I do team. So 30 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 4: after I do my treansndental meditation, I'll come out here 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 4: and do at least five minutes of writing or twenty 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 4: or however. 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 3: Long it feels like going. 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 4: And then I'll be told to or it led to 35 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 4: record or paint or practice or play Miss pac Man, 36 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 4: or go grocery shopping if I have to, or garden. 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: But every day it is sort of this, let's see 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: where it rolls. 39 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, on the days when i'm I don't have, you know, familial. 40 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 1: Obligations, which is many days. 41 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 4: Well I do well, I do, but I don't, you know, 42 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 4: to to balance and to be. 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 3: Well. 44 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 4: I find that no amount of of good parenting makes 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 4: up for an unhappy mother. So I find that balance 46 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 4: is super important. Like I do the job of of 47 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 4: mothering and I have to sort of set boundaries to 48 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 4: make sure I don't just do that all day, yeah, cause. 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: It could be a day long. 50 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: It could be all day events. 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes those those days happen, you know, especially 52 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 4: on the weekends and things like that. Those are definitely 53 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 4: all for mercy and j and but we all have 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 4: to maintain our own identities first before we could be 55 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 4: other identities for others. 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 5: So can you take us back to that moment when 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 5: you knew that you wanted to. 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: Ask your your dad to buy that uh first uh instrument. 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it it would seem random, except for it, it 60 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 4: wasn't random. 61 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: My dad. 62 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: My dad had a relationship, a good relationship with this 63 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 4: guy named Ady Garrett who owned eighty Garrett's pawn Shop 64 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: in Minnroales, Texas. 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: At that time, the population was one four three four. 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 4: Eight, and it was kind of the place where you 67 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: went and traded guns or knives or you know, instruments 68 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 4: or you know, all kind of kinds of things were 69 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 4: bought and sold there. But he went in there specifically 70 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 4: for a new knife for he he he hunts deer 71 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 4: with bow and arrow and stuff. But you know, at 72 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: that time, we ate deer and squirrel and stuff. Poor 73 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 4: f poor folks is what I'm describing. And he needed 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 4: a knife and he went in there to get a 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: new one cause he had broke his somehow, and I 76 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 4: saw it hanging. 77 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: On the wall and I I just looked at it. 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 4: I walked around some tried to feign interest in knives, 79 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 4: and I just stood there. 80 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: And then. 81 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 4: This smart salesman, the eighty geartt was saw me looking 82 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 4: at the fiddle and came and got it down for me. 83 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 4: And then after my dad picked out his knife, he 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 4: came to get me in. And I was by that 85 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 4: time begging for the fiddle, and I just didn't know 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 4: why or how it worked or anything. I just i 87 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 4: and it was about as high up as that little 88 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: old uh electric ukulele. 89 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: Right there, m and I just had to have it. 90 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 4: And then my dad was like, no, I don't have 91 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 4: that kind of money. 92 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: It was sixty dollars. 93 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 4: And then AD was like, well, you could take it 94 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 4: home and just come back and pay me as you 95 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 4: get it. And my dad was like, geez okay, and 96 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 4: he said, you have to swear to me you're gonna 97 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 4: learn it, cause I don't know that s I don't 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 4: have this kind of money, and and then I took it, 99 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 4: took it back to his house and broke all the strings. 100 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 4: And after the summer was over, I took it home 101 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: to my mom and she enrolled me in the school orchestra. 102 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 4: And then after that, uh, my teacher recommended that I 103 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 4: have private lessons, and then my private lessons teacher decided 104 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: that I also needed to learn fiddle. And when he 105 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 4: showed me Spanish two step, that's when I decided I 106 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 4: was gonna be a fiddle player. And I went to 107 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 4: my mom's car and said, I'm a fiddle player now. 108 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 4: And she said, as long as you maintained your classical 109 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 4: and your orchestra learning, you can also learn fiddle. And 110 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 4: I said okay. And that's all that got started. 111 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: That was the beginning of everything. Right you were you were, 112 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: You were stuck. 113 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I don't, I I don't, I don't. 114 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 4: I I try to think about why that happens, and 115 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 4: and the uh, the thunder agrees. It's accenting my words here. 116 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, people like on this podcast the sounds, 117 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: so we. 118 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 4: Don't they like, I mean, we could go out closer 119 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: to it if you want. There's a there's a bar 120 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 4: right there, and there's. 121 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 3: Some birds that won't be fly into. 122 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable, right, Okay, cool. 123 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 3: Awesome, Yeah, that was it. 124 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 4: I think about it sometimes and I think, you know, 125 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 4: there's a lot going on on in my childhood and 126 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: stuff at that time, and. 127 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 3: Being nine and eight and nine years old, you don't. 128 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: Really have or we didn't have the uh, the kind 129 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 4: of language that it that we would need to teach 130 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 4: kids or you know, my my parents were young when 131 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 4: they had me. They didn't have the language to even 132 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: verbalize their own emotions, much less teach me how to 133 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 4: do it. So I had no vocabulary or no means 134 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 4: of which to even talk about my feelings. And I 135 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 4: think if by divine intervention it was it was uh 136 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 4: put on me to learn the the uh insurmountable. 137 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 3: Chore of of what it is to play the fiddle. 138 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: Did you ever doubt that you would figure it out? 139 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: No? 140 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 4: I I I didn't doubt I would figure it out. 141 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 4: I I knew that, you know, if anything, the worst 142 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 4: thing could happen would be I'd be the worst, the 143 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: worst in the class, but I'd. 144 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: Still be doing something I liked, you know, Or maybe. 145 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: I'd not be the best one in the world, but 146 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 4: I'd still be doing something I loved. And then and 147 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 4: during that learning, I figured out that music helped me 148 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 4: best when it came to expression and and and that 149 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 4: kind of helps you daily when you're going through anything, 150 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 4: how to get the emotions off yourself and figure it out. 151 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: So then you're fifteen years old and you end up 152 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 5: playing with this incredible band, the Texas Playboys. 153 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: Oh mm, what wasn't quite as simple as that? I 154 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: they not only did. Okay, I'll start from the beginning. 155 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 4: So in my lessons with my violent teacher, privately, Lanny 156 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: was Lanny Field was noticing that I was only drawn 157 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 4: to certain types of passages, and I would be I 158 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 4: would excel at certain very difficult passages, and the rest 159 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 4: I was bored and doing poorly. 160 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: You know. 161 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 4: He said, why don't you play this part as well 162 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 4: as you do the other parts. I said, that doesn't 163 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: interest me, and he was like, well, if you do it, 164 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 4: you know, or when you do it, I will also 165 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 4: show you something that I've been learning, and it's fiddle 166 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 4: And he was actually in the process of transcribing. 167 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 3: Actually have it here randomly? Oh what, hold on, one second? 168 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: He was in the process of transcribing oh, fiddle tombs 169 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 4: from Frankie McCord and taking him from learning him, learning 170 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 4: them by ear like all the parts from Frankie McCord, 171 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 4: who I eventually learned fiddle from. 172 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 3: Uh uh two two years later. I'm getting to that. 173 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 4: Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. Kind of a lot 174 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: to talk about all at once, isn't it. 175 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: It's awesome. 176 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 4: So Lanny was learning fiddle and from Frankie, and Frankie 177 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 4: learned from Eck Robertson the first recorded fiddle player nineteen 178 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 4: twenty six and somewhere in Texas, so I think that's 179 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 4: the right year and anyway, so it's like Eck Frankie. 180 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: Then me and Lanny were learning from him. But it 181 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 4: wasn't stuff he could read on the paper. And this 182 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,239 Speaker 4: is what I've been studying this, reading music and classical 183 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: and so he was transcribing it so that it wouldn't 184 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 4: get lost in the shuffle of time, right, And I 185 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 4: put it on the first song I learned, and he 186 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 4: showed me this song and that it was this song 187 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 4: where I ran out to the card said I'm a 188 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 4: fiddle player, mom. This song Spanish two step the Bob 189 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 4: Wills song, and I just loved it, and it's Frankie's arrangement, 190 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 4: but you know, it's about Wilson. 191 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: And so. 192 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 4: He showed it to me, and then he showed me 193 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 4: the work he was doing and and transcribing and learning 194 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 4: from Frankie mccorter, who played with the playboye, who was 195 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 4: a foreman of the Jay Abrams ranch in Lipscomb, Texas, 196 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 4: which is just a few miles away from Turkey, Texas. 197 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 4: And actually more turkeys live in Lipscomb than people. 198 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: That's really funny. 199 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: And incidentally, Frankie's dog was Hank the cow Dog, oh okay, 200 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 4: the actual one. And and do you know Hank the 201 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 4: Cow Dog book? No it, well, it was a series 202 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 4: of books, and this wonderful writer wrote these Hank the 203 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 4: cow Dog children's books that I had heard of, and 204 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 4: I thought it was the coolest thing. 205 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: Frankie's actual dog was Hank the Cow Dog, no shit. 206 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 4: And so eventually, after becoming very interested, decided to tell 207 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 4: Lanny that I was gonna help 'em, you know, with 208 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 4: all this, and play music with him and and frank 209 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: and I was gonna learn by year two and all this. 210 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 4: So my mom would drive me down there to Frankie, 211 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 4: And through Frankie and Lanny, I met Tommy Alsop, who 212 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 4: was uh in charge of the Texas Playboys at that time, 213 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 4: and he was at one time in the Buddy Holly band. 214 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 4: He was the bass player. No, he was a guitar player. 215 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 4: Whalen was a bass player in that band, right, yeah. 216 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: And Tommy Aylsop was a fantastic producer and human and 217 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 4: lots of the Lord exists about Tommylsop. He was the 218 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 4: guy that flipped the coin ritchie valens uh and uh 219 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 4: he had he had a lot of a long history. 220 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 4: He had Liberty Records, and he did all kinds of 221 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 4: fantastic stuff. But anyway, so through Lanny and Frankie, I 222 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 4: met Tommy and that's how I wound up with the 223 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 4: Texas Playboys. You know, they were all in their seventies 224 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: and eighties during this time, and sometimes not all the 225 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 4: fiddle players could make it. Sometimes people passed away, and 226 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 4: I found myself in the lucky position of of of 227 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 4: being in the group. And uh, all I had to 228 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: do was be willing to play any of these parts, 229 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 4: and that it meant that somebody didn't show up, so 230 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 4: I memorized all the parts, first, the fir, the you know, 231 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 4: the melody and the harmony and the low harmony, and 232 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 4: most of the time I got stuck on the low 233 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 4: the low harmony, and I was happy with that. And 234 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 4: eventually they had me learning to improvise, and then I 235 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 4: sang for the first time, which was a disaster. And yeah, 236 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 4: they were my best friends. I compare everything to that experience. 237 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: Now, why was that first singing experience a disaster? 238 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: Oh? My god. 239 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 4: Luckily they were all my friends. It was like having 240 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 4: seven to granddads. So it was like, oh uh. So 241 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: we had talked about it and I was gonna sing 242 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 4: cause I could sing harmony. And so they're like, you 243 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 4: should take a lead at the Christmas show and I 244 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 4: was like, okay, I'll try. And we practiced it, you know, 245 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 4: ran through it once. It was all great, and then 246 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: had the show comes around and I stand up there 247 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 4: to sing a little walk with you shere would go Good, 248 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 4: which is the first line of the song sure would 249 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 4: Go Good, the song that I first chose to sing, 250 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 4: and you know, we played the part Doo doo, the 251 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 4: do do the doo, the little intro, and then I 252 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 4: go up there. No nothing came out. And I was like, 253 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 4: oh no, this is the worst, this is terrible. And 254 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 4: I have a picture of it, and my friend Shelby 255 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 4: was there with me and she took the picture. 256 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 3: But they're all just cracking up looking down and I'm like. 257 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 4: Oh my god, what is happening? And then they don't 258 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 4: stop playing. So I've learned a lot of things from 259 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 4: them about when things happen on stage or not they 260 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 4: don't go right in and what you do. 261 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 3: And don't do. You don't have to stop the whole 262 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 3: song and make a big deal. So they turned it 263 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: around again and during. 264 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 4: That time, Leon Roush, the singer of the band, grabbed 265 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 4: my hand and he said, I'm gonna hold your hand 266 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 4: and I'm gonna sing it right here in this invisible 267 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 4: microphone while you sing it on. 268 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: The real microphone. And I was like okay. 269 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 4: And it was very wavery oh and terrible, I think 270 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 4: in my mind's eye, my memory, but uh, I got. 271 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: Through it, and. 272 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 4: I think that, uh, probably what got me is the uh, 273 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 4: the fear that comes along with, you know, standing in 274 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 4: front of a bunch of people and there's lights on you, 275 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: and that goes back to somewhere primal that makes you 276 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 4: feel like, oh, I better run. You know, it's a 277 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: flight or flight or fight here, I'd better run. It 278 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 4: seems unnatural. I don't know what it was, but I 279 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: was terrified. And after that it got it started getting 280 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 4: a little easier with the lead singing, but not much. 281 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: It took some. 282 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: Time, but it was a defining moment. 283 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: Oh, it was definitely. 284 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 4: And the problem is is that when somebody asks me 285 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 4: to do something and I say yes, I was. You know, 286 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 4: my granddaddy drilled that into me and my dad more 287 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 4: than anything, any more than any other thing. Like if 288 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 4: you say you're gonna do something, you do it. You 289 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 4: say you're gonna be somewhere at a certain time, you'd 290 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: be there at a certain time. And I don't know 291 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 4: why that seems to'd be so important to me, but 292 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 4: I do it, and I told them I would do it, 293 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 4: so I, uh, I carried on. 294 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: I'd say you did, yeah. 295 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. Sometimes I wonder why I say yes to things, 296 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 4: but it's okay. 297 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: I hope you're you're not second guessing this, uh oh 298 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: this interview. 299 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: No, I just sometimes I don't think too hard and 300 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 4: it's like instinctive yes, or no answers, and I'm like, 301 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 4: sh sh to take more time and just think things through. 302 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: So who were those. 303 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 5: Other influences as you were, uh growing into the business 304 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 5: that were musical influences on you? 305 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 3: The best ones? You know. I didn't have any kind 306 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: of heartbreak in music till I was much older. 307 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 4: The first songwriter that I fell in love with was 308 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 4: uh Cindy Walker, and I got to play for her 309 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 4: seventieth birthday party and become friends with her, and uh 310 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 4: the first side person I ever saw that was a 311 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 4: woman was Bobby Nelson and I recently uh me and 312 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 4: my friend Lawrence Rothman, a producer, were we both produced 313 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 4: a record on her before she passed away, and we're 314 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: almost done with it and it's beautiful. 315 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: There's a song she wrote on it. 316 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 4: I don't know if you're familiar with her work, but no, 317 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 4: she taught uh Willie Nell. She's Willi Alston's brother, I 318 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 4: mean sister, and she taught him most everything he knows 319 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: about music. And she was in this band and then 320 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: she wasn't for a minute cause they called her an 321 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: unfit mother for doing that. And then you know, went 322 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 4: went back to work and and I became what society 323 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 4: calls a fit mother and and demoed Hammond b three 324 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 4: Organs the one they came out and all that, and 325 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 4: then returned to his band later and until the end 326 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 4: there and uh, she was always playing the piano wearing 327 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 4: a black cat. And I did a uh we did 328 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 4: that record on her. It came out great. She even 329 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 4: has a song on it. She wrote, sorry, my ringer 330 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 4: was going off. It's not a real cat. I find 331 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 4: the alarms on phones very alarming. So I have my 332 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 4: I on a cat's that's good. 333 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I like that. 334 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: I don't have a cat. A cat A cat. 335 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 336 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: So you're but the influences that you have I find 337 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: so remarkable. 338 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 3: You are. 339 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 5: Across so many different generations and types of styles. And 340 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 5: one of the people I'm fascinated by that I know 341 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 5: you're fascinated with is Leonard Cohen. 342 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: Did data attraction occur? 343 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. 344 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 4: Okay, So I was working at the record store in Lubbock, Texas, 345 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 4: because I you know, I'm a heart. 346 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 3: It's good. Like this thing about the people that I. 347 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 4: Meet and and and and feel close to, I think 348 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 4: has a lot to do with how is raised. So anyway, 349 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 4: all that to say, kind of gravitate to people with 350 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 4: real stories in real life experience. 351 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: And I think I and a lot of that from 352 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 3: my granddad. 353 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 4: And then my work ethic is also from been bred 354 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 4: into me from both sides, my dad's side and my mom's. 355 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 4: My granddad was a cotton picker before he became uh 356 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 4: uh a a nurseryman, a man that grows plants and 357 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: greenhouses and things. And I had the con orchards and 358 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 4: peach orchards and we'd have to pick things and sell them. 359 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 4: But I have a work ethic, and I always feel 360 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 4: funny if I'm not working. So when I wasn't playing 361 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 4: with a playboye or doing school work, I would uh 362 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 4: work at the record store. And this guy I was 363 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 4: working with named Jake, all he would play was Fugazi. 364 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 3: And I don't know if you've ever heard that, but 365 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 3: let me just tell you. 366 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 4: I can put up with a lot of things for 367 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 4: a long time, but two weeks I Fugazi'll drive anyone bonkers. 368 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 4: I mean uh and I s I I lost my patients, 369 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 4: and I said, this is it, this is it. I 370 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 4: don't care that you're six seven and you weigh three 371 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 4: hundred pounds I'm not putting up with this anymore. And 372 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 4: he said, he said, when of the last song's over, 373 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 4: if you don't have a R record in on it, 374 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 4: it's it's it's gonna be the next Fugazi record. And 375 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: I ran as fast as I could to the aisle 376 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 4: where I'd been staring at this Leonard Cohen record and 377 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 4: I'd never heard it or anything. I just the picture 378 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 4: once again, or the look of it. W looked interesting. 379 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 4: The eyes, it was something about the eyes. And I 380 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 4: put it on and and he was like, oh, I 381 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 4: love Leonard Cohen. 382 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, hell, yes, this is a win. 383 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 3: I was like, Who's Leonard Cohen? 384 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 4: And and then the record was playing, and then I 385 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 4: was like, who is Leonard Cohen? So I took Leonard 386 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 4: Cohen home with me in record for him and UH 387 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 4: dove in and and found that that a lot of 388 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 4: our you know, by reading and watching every M documentary 389 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 4: and interview and finding every kind of UH boot legs 390 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 4: that I could have interviews and everything with the within 391 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: the business that I could get my hands on, I 392 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 4: feel like I I a kinship and I feel like 393 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 4: a lot of things about you know, him and me 394 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 4: a line and that we would have been a perfect 395 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 4: couple had he not died. 396 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, kid, we would have been married. He would have 397 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 3: finally found his wife. 398 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: You know, he never got married because it was always 399 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: supposed to be me. 400 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: So you never got to come to the opportunity to 401 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: meet him. 402 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 3: Or no, I didn't. Don't. 403 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: Would you in awe? Would you have been to at 404 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: all to to run into him? 405 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 3: No? 406 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 4: No, no, But I I have met I've met his 407 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 4: band members and managers and all kinds of people. I 408 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 4: found his coat hanger once and I kept it, still 409 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 4: have it. Uh it was at a club that he 410 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 4: had left it behind on accident, so I kept it. 411 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 4: I had never met him, but but I think that 412 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 4: I would be comfortable just sitting there not saying anything, 413 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 4: and and I think that, uh. 414 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 3: He would be too. 415 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 4: And since he's not here to disagree with you, will 416 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 4: we will have to just assume that's true. Thunderclap, Yeah, yeah, exactly, 417 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 4: exactly exactly. 418 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 5: Where did you get the notion that I know is 419 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 5: important to you of play it like it's the last 420 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 5: time you'll ever play it. 421 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 4: That's Texas Playboys. That was from the Texas And they 422 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 4: also said, if you're not proud of it. Don't do it, 423 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 4: Frankie specifically, it play it like the l it's the 424 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 4: last time you're ever gonna play it, cause you don't 425 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 4: get you don't. 426 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: It's easy to walk. 427 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 4: Through things like you've done it because you've done it 428 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 4: a few times. It's easy to to think, oh, I'm 429 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 4: gonna play this song. I play it every day. But 430 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 4: that's that's not how that's not the spirit of music. 431 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 4: You know, for the real connection with people, you gotta 432 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 4: be in the song and you've gotta mean it. And 433 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 4: as Bobby Koeper the steel player would say, you gotta 434 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 4: sell it. 435 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: But that's a metaphor for how you live your life, 436 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: isn't it really? 437 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: Oh? 438 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 4: Definitely, And i'd I think that has something to do 439 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 4: with them coming in and me learning in my early development, 440 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 4: cause you know, my frontal lobe wasn't developed till I 441 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 4: was like twenty four or twenty five. So a lot 442 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 4: of the things that they told me and and taught 443 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 4: me still stick with me to this day. Like I 444 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 4: could show everybody in any room where their their tire 445 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 4: pressure sticker is and how to make sure their tires 446 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 4: are good and ready for the trip to Lipscombe, Texas. 447 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 4: Yeah I can, Yeah, I can look at 'em and 448 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 4: till you Yeah. 449 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 3: I do live my life like that. You know it. 450 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 3: It's important you realize that as you get older. 451 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 4: But I also think that I I realized that a 452 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 4: lot when I was young, because my friends were very old. 453 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 5: And you didn't just look at them as old, you 454 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 5: look at them as wise. 455 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 4: I didn't l even really notice their age by the 456 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 4: way they acted. 457 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 3: You know. 458 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 4: A couple of 'em had many girlfriends and Andy and 459 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 4: I didn't say boo about it because it was understood, 460 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 4: you don't. You know, they were gentlemen about it. But 461 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 4: the couple of 'em that did. I do remember wal 462 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 4: now the hotel, my hotel room wants to go to 463 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 4: breakfast at the hotel lobby and uh. One of the 464 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 4: Texas playboys was al escorted a lady to her car, 465 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, I did not know that 466 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 4: she was gonna be here all night and interesting, wonder. 467 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 3: What she thinks about that. Then I was like, I'm 468 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 3: not gonna say anything. 469 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 4: And he looked at me and he said breakfast And 470 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 4: I said, yep, it was awesome, but you know it 471 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 4: was Uh. I didn't see them as old or anything. 472 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 4: They were very uh witty, and most of them had 473 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 4: had great retention. There was there and wonderful stories and 474 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 4: they had you know, they're in inner band stories and 475 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 4: jokes and all that, and it was very fun. And yeah, 476 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 4: I didn't see them as old, but I did start 477 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 4: seeing them as old when they started passing away. 478 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: But they're still in your heart. 479 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and we still we've got this music here. Yeah, yeah, 480 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 4: it's they They're not gone forever. 481 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 3: The music's still there. 482 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: So when did you first encounter John Prime? 483 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 4: Well, to to know when I first heard him, it's 484 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 4: hard to say. I think everybody's heard him their whole lives. 485 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: But it was longes this. 486 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 4: It was three days before this picture was taken. Interesting, 487 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 4: you're asking about the things I have pictures of. So 488 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 4: three days before this picture I got to play my 489 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 4: first shows with John Prime, opening and then joining his 490 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 4: band and on the f he s he had me 491 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 4: for three shows to try it out, you know, like 492 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 4: we're gonna just have you open three shows, see how 493 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: that goes. And so I went and opened the three shows. 494 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 4: And I was driving a a fid O'Connell line van, 495 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 4: you know, and I dress up for the shows, but 496 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 4: for long drives, I fit, I find that pointless. And 497 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 4: so I was wearing this onesie that I found at 498 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 4: the target, and my friend Kelly was wearing her little 499 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 4: leopard when in my bass player was wearing them at 500 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 4: she won't like mine, and and uh. 501 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 3: I got to the sound check it there was a 502 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 3: long drive. 503 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 4: Between one of the one of these shows, and I 504 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 4: was still in it cause it didn't have time to 505 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 4: change for sound check, and he had just finished his 506 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 4: sound check and uh, he said, Man, if they had 507 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 4: one of those in a sock monkey. 508 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: I'd wear it. I said, I said really, And I said, 509 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: are you serious? 510 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 4: Because you know it was twenty six dollars is a 511 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 4: lot of money. And if I'm gonna find a s 512 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 4: if I find one, there's a sock monkey, better wear 513 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 4: it and and and then he said if there was, 514 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 4: I would. And on the last day of the last 515 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 4: day of those three shows, I got him some white 516 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 4: wine it uh cause I heard he liked that, and 517 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 4: I made him a a a a partying gift. And 518 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 4: then it was a sock monkey, uh onesie, and I uh, 519 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 4: before I went to do my set, I I put 520 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 4: it in his dressing room and then uh, during my set, 521 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 4: he he came to the wings of the stage wearing it, 522 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 4: and I was I was like, what the hell is happened? 523 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 4: Like I lost all of sense of what was happening. 524 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 4: I was like John Brien's in the sock Monkey outfit 525 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 4: news in the wings. 526 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: He just walked off. Nobody believed me, and. 527 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 4: This is uh, this is oh he had took the 528 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 4: top down. I have another picture where he's still wearing it. 529 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 4: And and I took that little polaroid that day and 530 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 4: he signed it and and that. 531 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 3: Was our first experience together. And then he called me 532 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: to do more shows. 533 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 4: And then I toured all over uh Europe and in 534 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 4: the UK and Canada. 535 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: And and m mm. 536 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 4: You know all those all those places n New Bruns, 537 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 4: New Brunswick, Boom Brunswick and Boosting, all the places I 538 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 4: toured around with him, and Uh, a lot of the 539 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 4: times he would drive his own car, the rental car, 540 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: and so I'd ride with him a lot, and overseas 541 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 4: we'd take you know, little little planes here and there 542 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 4: and drive some but not really trains. We did mostly 543 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 4: trains and flights over there, and would always sit together 544 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 4: and hang out together and talk and yeah, we were 545 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 4: just really good friends and talked a lot about rhyming cause, 546 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 4: uh cause I was finishing up my master's thesis in 547 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: poetry when I was on that last tour with him, 548 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 4: and he was like, how are you doing this if 549 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 4: you don't have any books? And I said, oh, I 550 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 4: have I have my I have my rhyming dictionary on 551 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 4: my computer. I have all this different that I have 552 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 4: these apps. And then he was like, you could get 553 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 4: a rhyming dictionary on your phone. And he was like, 554 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 4: can you do that to mine? And I was like yeah, 555 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 4: and he was like here, you can have all the 556 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 4: these books. I was like, you carry those around. But 557 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 4: so then we started talking about that, and then we 558 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 4: started talking about you know, the the little tools we 559 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 4: use rhyming and and all that. This is not just 560 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 4: one conversation. That's where it started becoming like uh it was. 561 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 4: It was during Tree of Forgiveness and we were that 562 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 4: end part where he's talking about the uh sypholtic critics 563 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 4: and all that at the and that's when we were 564 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 4: on the plane just just seeing. 565 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 3: How far we can take the rhyme, you know. 566 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was without the app because we were 567 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 4: in the air and we couldn't download it, but which 568 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 4: I did save him the trouble and downloaded it for 569 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 4: him later when we landed. But but we started talking 570 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 4: a lot about rhyme and showing each other's songs and 571 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 4: in early form and stages too. And then I got 572 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 4: to see how he did it and how he worked 573 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 4: and and I didn't take that lightly, you know, And 574 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 4: I asked him questions, you know, and he'd give me 575 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: real answers, and he did. 576 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 3: And I feel like I learned a lot of things 577 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 3: from him, you know. 578 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 4: I used to try and avoid the dead on rhymes, 579 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 4: and he said, it to a song, that's what you 580 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 4: s How else are they. 581 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 3: Gonna remember it? 582 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 4: If we're doing near rhymes so much, it's not gonna 583 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 4: they're not gonna remember the words. And I was like, 584 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 4: you're right. And I said, well, then how am I 585 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 4: gonna make it different? And he was like, well, you 586 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 4: get you gotta put the details in there, the details 587 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 4: of the story and all. That's what what makes it 588 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 4: different to the experience of another And he said, also, 589 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 4: you're a different person than the other songwriter, so it's 590 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 4: always gonna be different. And everybody's bringing their own experiences 591 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 4: and their own take on the world to a song. 592 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 3: And that's why my love little are the same. 593 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: You know, you made a deal with him when he 594 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: wanted you to go out on the road. 595 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: Didn't you ju about a particular song he got? Yeah, 596 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: well can you t talk about that? He got two songs? 597 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 3: Two? Yeah? I told him. He called and he was like, 598 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 3: can you do this Europe run with me? 599 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 4: It's it's about six weeks, almost seven really, And I said, 600 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 4: I don't know. 601 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: And it was. 602 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 4: It was during Easter too, which at that time was 603 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 4: Mercy's favorite holiday, my daughter, and she loved it because 604 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 4: she liked to f find things and also eat candy 605 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: to that's what you do when you're two and three, 606 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 4: you love Easter and because you like to eat candy and. 607 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: Going to scavender haunts and digging and bushes. But anyway, 608 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: it's fun. It's fun, you know. 609 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 4: With with motherhood, do you get a fresh look on 610 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 4: what childhood really looks like that you didn't see in 611 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 4: your own experience, And it's that can be helpful. But 612 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 4: all that to say, I said, I don't know, John, 613 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 4: that's a long time to be going. You know from 614 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 4: my family. I mean, I wh it was. It was 615 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 4: good mercy and I'll later grow up and like be 616 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 4: like you weren't here with me on Easter and all 617 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 4: this kind of stuff and and he said, sh she 618 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 4: probably won't remember that at all. 619 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 3: He said, I really need you to go on tour 620 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: and I was like okay, and he said, well it'll 621 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: be double duty. 622 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 4: You'll be open in the show and then joining me 623 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 4: for the whole duration of the of the music. And 624 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 4: I said, well, you know, there's only one thing I'm 625 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 4: good at, John, and that's music, So I can do that. 626 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 4: But but I don't know. And I was like, what's 627 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 4: it pay? He was like, you know, normal pay and 628 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 4: I was like, well, we got. 629 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 3: To put something else in there. And uh. 630 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 4: He said, well what do you want And I said, well, 631 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 4: I'll do it, but only if you bring two songs 632 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 4: into the set. Has to be these two songs. And 633 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 4: he said, I bet I could do that. What songs 634 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 4: are they are? They are they m songs? And he 635 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 4: was like, I was like, you have course of your songs. 636 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: What am I gonna do? Say, play a lyric going song? 637 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 4: And I said, first we gotta bring back clocks and 638 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 4: spoons and he's like, I don't know about that because 639 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: I feel like that song is is too sad for 640 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 4: for me at this point in my life. 641 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, it's your song. 642 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 4: Can't you just make it less sad and and uh 643 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 4: and and he said I think about that. And I 644 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 4: said the other song is Saddle in the Rain. I 645 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 4: love playing that song and he said, okay, yeah, we 646 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 4: can play Saddle in the Rain. 647 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 3: And then. 648 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 4: I printed the words out to clocks and spoons and 649 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 4: I have it in my office and I showed it 650 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 4: to him. I was like, what part of it's said? 651 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 4: And he said that part about shoot the moon right 652 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 4: between the eyes, I'm screaming. And he said something about 653 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 4: when he wrote that, he was in a different place 654 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 4: than he was now because as life happened, with the 655 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 4: good and the bad, it's all beautifu. And he said, 656 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 4: I'm gonna change that to singing. And I said, are 657 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 4: we doing it? He said we were gonna do it, 658 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 4: and so we did both of them, and when we 659 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 4: played it live from then on, we'd sing, we'd sing 660 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,959 Speaker 4: them shoot them right between the eyes, I'm singing. 661 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. 662 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 5: So this little band that you uh spearheaded called the 663 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 5: High Women. 664 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: Congratulations on that, well, thank. 665 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 3: You, thank you. 666 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 4: Started out as it a tiny idea I had in 667 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 4: twenty sixteen when I went on tour which on Prine 668 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 4: and then my own solo tours. 669 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: What an amazing triumph. 670 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 5: And had you known that your other collaborators on The 671 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 5: High Women before? 672 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm only in passing like I met Marion when 673 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 4: she was young, like about twelve or thirteen. 674 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 3: We were playing at a festival. I was playing fiddle. 675 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 4: I'd been playing with Billy Joe Shaver, and I saw 676 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 4: her mom dragging her around the campfires and singing, and 677 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 4: she had a credible voice. In then i'd you know, 678 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 4: she's a Texan, so i'd heard she moved to town 679 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: at some point. But I was touring with between between 680 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 4: writing songs and waiting tables to to pay for the 681 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 4: recordings that I would do later on my own as 682 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 4: as an artist. I was also playing as a side 683 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 4: person for justin Town's Earl and other folks whoever would 684 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 4: have me that I that I thought I could learn 685 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 4: something from and so I didn't hear from her much. 686 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 4: I would see, you know in passing on social media 687 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 4: that she seemed to be doing well. But the producer 688 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 4: friend I made, Dave Cobb, was the first person I 689 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 4: told my idea too. After I'd kind of so like, 690 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 4: it doesn't seem like I I I'd sit quietly by 691 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 4: being here with me. But this is what my natural 692 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 4: go to around people is to get real nervous and 693 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 4: talk and but in real in my real spending of time, 694 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 4: I sit in here and I outstare at things or 695 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 4: I do you know, sls thinking things, play music. I 696 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 4: was working on how to describe what I wanted to 697 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 4: do with the music and the idea and the tension 698 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 4: intention of the band. M you know, I make lots 699 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 4: of notes, and I'd been paying attention to radio stations 700 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 4: at that time. I I I I I figured out 701 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 4: the the the pictures of what I wanted to do 702 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 4: in my mind, and I'd write notes and try to 703 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 4: figure it out. 704 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 3: And I'm mm. 705 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 4: The end of two thousand seventeen or eighteen beginning, I 706 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 4: I told Dave Cobb when I was there working on 707 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 4: a session, I said, I can't remember if I was 708 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,439 Speaker 4: singing or playing the fiddle or what I was doing, 709 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 4: but at the end of it, I said, so I've 710 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 4: been having this idea and we've been friends for a while, 711 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 4: so he's patient and was willing. 712 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 3: To hear me out. 713 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 4: And that's one of the great things about producers is 714 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 4: is the good ones are very patient and and they 715 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 4: also know what it's like to try and translate what 716 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 4: an artist has in their minds, so they're patient with 717 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 4: you and they're listening and they're. 718 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 3: Not like, whoa, you look crazy? What are you saying? 719 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 3: They never do that. 720 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 4: That's why it's always cool if you're with a good 721 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 4: producer that's you know, clear at the time, and you're 722 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 4: talking seriously, cause they'll give you that time. But I said, 723 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 4: I wanna start this group, and I said here's the rest. 724 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 4: And I was scared to say it because it sounds 725 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 4: kind of crazy. I said, I wants to be called 726 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 4: the High Women. And he said the High Women. And 727 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 4: I was like, not like high, like is in I 728 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 4: got high, but like is it high as in like 729 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 4: you know, exalted, like you know, like you know, w 730 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 4: and taking the high road and all that kind of stuff, 731 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 4: you know, And he was like, I love it. And 732 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 4: I said, here's the other thing I wanna do. I 733 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 4: wanna rewrite that song it's gonna be like if you 734 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 4: could picture this, cause this is how I describe things 735 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 4: in pictures. I said, if you could picture a record, 736 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 4: it'll be like, imagine that the songs are a tree. 737 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 4: So the main part of the tree is like you know, 738 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 4: there's the roots, but the the centerpiece of the record 739 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 4: will be the high w W Women's song that that 740 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 4: I'm trying to rewrite, you know, and the rest of 741 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 4: it'll be like other stories that come off of it, 742 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 4: like the branches. And he was like, that's a fantastic idea. 743 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 4: And I said, there's not gonna be a tree on 744 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 4: the cover though, you know, like cause like sometimes you 745 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 4: if you just don't just leave the tree out of it. 746 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 4: I'm just trying to tell you by idea. But he's 747 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 4: really good with that. And I don't wanna be I 748 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 4: don't wanna be sassy music. And I don't want it 749 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 4: to look distressed. I want it to like look like 750 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 4: like what we're trying to do. But I also want 751 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 4: it to take it take it back to what it's 752 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 4: supposed to be and like where we can sing about 753 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 4: more than unrequited love or that we really miss our man, 754 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 4: or that we're gonna whatever we're gonna do, go out, 755 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 4: m burn some lady's house down. 756 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. 757 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 3: Those are fun. 758 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: But we also need the other stuff on the radio too, 759 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 4: or not on the radio, just that people know that 760 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 4: we're out there and they can identify with us if 761 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 4: they feel the same and support each. 762 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 3: Other and all this. And he said that's a great idea, 763 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 3: and I said, okay. 764 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 4: He said you should call Brandy Carlyle. And I didn't 765 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 4: call her, and then, uh, next time I saw him, 766 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 4: I thought he would have forgotten, but he said, he said, so, 767 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 4: did you call Brandy Carlyle or the idea is really good? 768 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 4: And and I. 769 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 3: Said, I can't just cold call Brandy Carlisle. 770 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 4: What am I gonna say, Like, I'm gonna start laying 771 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 4: into this big, long, weird story about the high women 772 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 4: idea and what's that? And I I I just I said, 773 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 4: I just don't. I'm not gonna call her and talk 774 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 4: about this. This is this is just a hard thing 775 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 4: to explain. 776 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 3: Over the phone. 777 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 4: I think, like I I th I don't know. I 778 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 4: just don't know about this. I was like, why don't 779 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,919 Speaker 4: you do it? And he said no, he said, she's 780 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 4: playing tonight and we'll go down there and see her. 781 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 4: I'll introduce you and you'll tell her then. And I 782 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 4: I said, okay, uh, I'll go there and we'll see 783 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 4: what happens, you know. And we went to the basement, 784 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 4: the the new basement at the time, I think seemed 785 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 4: like that's where it was. And if he walked straight 786 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 4: back into the back green room and he said, this 787 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 4: is Brandy Carlyle, Brandy Carlill. This is Amanda Shires and 788 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 4: and she was very. 789 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 3: Clearly about to walk up on the stage and sing 790 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 3: like she. 791 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 4: Was like she'd given her wife a Hugan was walking 792 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 4: on the stage, turning up and I said, I'm Amanda Shyars, 793 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 4: and I have this idea and we're gonna start a band. 794 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 3: It's called the High Women, and we're gonna do this 795 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,959 Speaker 3: this or not. And she's she looked at. 796 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 4: Me and she said, hi, Amanda Friars. 797 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: This. 798 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 4: How about we talk about this some more or later. 799 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 4: I said okay, And then and I c and then 800 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 4: I called an over and left. 801 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 3: And and they. 802 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 4: Gave her my number, and then we'd talked later and 803 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 4: started talking more about it. 804 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 3: And they've introduced us to. 805 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 4: Natalie Hemby, who at that time was just we were 806 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 4: just writing with her on different things, and we were 807 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 4: writing with different folks just to see what we could do. 808 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 4: And one of the days of the of the session 809 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 4: that me and Brandy were doing, cause really it was 810 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 4: just me and Brandy at first, but during the session, 811 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 4: Natalie came over cause we wanted her to sing, because 812 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 4: you know, we've developed this friendship, and she sang, and 813 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 4: then I got down on one knee and. 814 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 3: I said, would you please join our band? 815 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 4: And she said, oh, I don't know. And then Brandy 816 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 4: said you really should, you really should, we should to 817 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 4: join our band. And she said, we're playing with Dolly 818 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 4: at Newport and you could be in our band and 819 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 4: go play with us and sing with us and meet Dolly. 820 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 4: And then Natalie said, wellhy, I'm in And Brandy called Marin. 821 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 4: Brandy called Maren. Maren was at Fallon or something, and 822 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 4: Brandy said, hey, come sing some songs on the Highwayman record. 823 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 4: Bring two songs that you like of yours that you 824 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 4: think would fit what we're doing. And she said okay. 825 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 4: And that was such a good time that we kept 826 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 4: her in there and and then made her join a 827 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 4: band and wrote some more in the studio together, and yeah, 828 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 4: and then I was thinking, you know, wouldn't it be 829 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 4: cool if some other people could come and go, Cause 830 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 4: the idea of the of the group two is because 831 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 4: it's our uh second group to all of our own 832 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 4: individual careers. Is like if somebody needed to take a 833 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 4: break and have babies, or somebody's parents were sick, or 834 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 4: if they just needed time out off for mental purposes 835 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 4: or whatever, they could just go do that, and we'd 836 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 4: expand the platform, like let somebody else come sing in 837 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 4: their stead. And and even if you weren't in the 838 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 4: original four that made the record it, we are high 839 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 4: Women and we accept all, like whoever wants to play 840 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 4: any instrument or sing or even if your uh, you know, 841 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 4: gender isn't to you know, female or non binary or whatever, 842 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 4: you could still come be in our group too. You 843 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 4: could be in our group, doesn't matter your your your 844 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 4: race or creed, or your your gender or anything. 845 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 3: We're open. 846 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 4: We're high women, you know. And Jason even has the 847 00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 4: High Women tattoo. 848 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: And it's awesome. 849 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 4: So Cheryl Crow came and played the bass, and we've 850 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 4: had guests like maybe Staples sing with us and just 851 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 4: just anybody that'll sing with us, we do that, and 852 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 4: and invited Brittany Spencer to be a part of it recently, 853 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 4: and we're gonna go appear together at Maren's final concert 854 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 4: of this tour this weekend at the Bridge Stone. And well, 855 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 4: that's just made up my mind. I wasn't sure when 856 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 4: I was gonna go, Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna sing 857 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 4: a couple songs. 858 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 3: And then. 859 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 4: When does this podcast air? 860 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: This is gonna this is now twenty twenty three. 861 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 4: Okay, So then the next day we're gonna fly down 862 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 4: to the Kennedy Center Honors and play there and the 863 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 4: High Women and at the at the Maren show, Uh, 864 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 4: britt Brandy won't be there, but Cheryl and Brittany will. 865 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 4: But then the next day we're gonna go play at 866 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 4: the Kennedy Center Honors and meet the President. And I 867 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 4: still haven't figured out what to wear to that, and 868 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 4: I i'd I honestly don't know what to do with 869 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 4: those kind of things. Have to watch some youtubes about 870 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 4: where the forks and knives on the place. You know, 871 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 4: I'm good at sitting up still sitting up straight and 872 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 4: having good posture, but like having like not fidgeting and 873 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 4: having a poker face at a not poker table or 874 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 4: a not craps table or a not black check table. 875 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 4: It's just not me. Like I I can play, I 876 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 4: can I can gamble, but like it's hard to sit 877 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 4: still at one of these things. 878 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: So will there be another High Woman album? 879 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 3: I think so the the. 880 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 4: When I think about it, when I've been noticing on 881 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 4: a phone. You know, we've been playing more shows recently, 882 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 4: making more appearances, and we all put up out our 883 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 4: own records. See this is how I lead with the art. 884 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 4: I'm doing it right now, so I'm not forcing or 885 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 4: doing anything, but I kind of know already. You let 886 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 4: it kind of happen. There's less of us sending pictures 887 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 4: of our kids and what we're cooking, and it's turned 888 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 4: into more about like song ideas. Like even in passing 889 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 4: at the Liretteleni thing, me and Natalie's had a song idea. 890 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 4: Unconsciously we all know that that's happening. But that's just honesty, 891 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 4: right and oh yeah yeah, and then also not getting 892 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 4: in the way of the of the intention. Cause so 893 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 4: it's easy to be told by folks on the outside 894 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 4: or by any anybody any kind of influence, like if 895 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 4: y'all toured or did this, you could make so much 896 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 4: money and all that. Or if you did that and 897 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 4: you did that, you make so much money. Yeah, we'd 898 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 4: make money for ourselves and others. But that's not why 899 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 4: we started it. Like it's our group that we do 900 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 4: to affect change. And like I said, we do our 901 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 4: individual artistry. That's our identities, you know, and and you 902 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 4: have to maintain your own before you can be in 903 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 4: service of of of another identity as a different part 904 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 4: to them in a bigger collective. And but naturally it 905 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 4: feels like it's it's that way, cause if you look 906 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,720 Speaker 4: at it, just like from outside, everybody put out records 907 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 4: and they've toured 'em. Kind I was a bummer which 908 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 4: after when COVID happened, cause we had shows planned and 909 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 4: things like that, and then we all took financial hits 910 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,879 Speaker 4: and stuff because of that, and we all survived it 911 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 4: and made records to put 'em out, and you know, 912 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,720 Speaker 4: feels like the world's writing itself and in the direction 913 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 4: where we could think, you know, happily and positively again 914 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 4: about not getting our hearts broken. 915 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 6: That way, congratulations and take it like a man ah, 916 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 6: thanks my god, thank you that Now, how long of 917 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 6: a process that was during COVID, that you that you 918 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 6: worked on. 919 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 4: That, right, I got. I was disenchanted with all of 920 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,879 Speaker 4: it during COVID. Think I was working myself to burn out. 921 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 4: There's all kind of things going on. MM. I write 922 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 4: every day, and it's not necessarily for songs. It's just 923 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 4: to keep the pin sharp. And I also do poems. 924 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 4: I have a master's in poetry. I've published one and 925 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 4: decided that I would wait until I had a whole 926 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 4: book before I published a whole collection, and not pressuring 927 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 4: myself to finish it, cause I want it to be 928 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 4: done with the right choices behind it, and not ever 929 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 4: be influenced by things like deadlines or advances. I don't 930 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 4: even want an advance. Just wanna turn in a done 931 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 4: book and and not have anybody edit. I mean, not 932 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 4: have anybody say boo about it or offer their input 933 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 4: on the collection, cause I'm the one sitting with it 934 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 4: all day anyway. But they can't edit it and decide 935 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 4: which ones they want out. They just can't tell me 936 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 4: to write more. Yeah yeah, but anyway, so when I 937 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:31,959 Speaker 4: get there. 938 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 3: I'll get there. The problem is this. 939 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 4: I'm Amanda Shires, and I play the fiddle, and I 940 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 4: learned to play western swing and country. I grew up 941 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 4: doing it. I also learned at the same time how 942 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 4: to play in rock and roll bands, cause nobody was 943 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 4: playing country or western swing. 944 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,439 Speaker 3: And I also learned how. 945 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 4: To play classical cause I loved it. And I also 946 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 4: learned a little bit of bluegrass, but not too much, 947 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 4: and cause western swing folks would get mad, and and 948 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 4: so I was very well versed on this intertru Now. 949 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 4: At the same time, growing up, fiddle is not a 950 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 4: popular instrument. Where are you gonna do with that? You know, 951 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 4: there's not a lot of lead people, lead singers and 952 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,720 Speaker 4: rock bands playing a fiddle. 953 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: The band had a little run with that. 954 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,359 Speaker 4: I mean, I mean they did, and Bowie had a 955 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 4: little bit of a fiddle player, but it was like 956 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 4: you ever learnt The artists though, y like Charlie Daniels, 957 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 4: but that's country and all that. And then what I 958 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 4: do is more like I do like kind of like 959 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 4: rock and country and you know, folk songs and songs 960 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 4: of the people or whatever what people now call songwriter 961 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 4: music or Americana, But I p I take it kind 962 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 4: of further like I try to. I try to make 963 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 4: new sounds and keep the instrument, you know, going to 964 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 4: further in like with the like with with people my 965 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 4: own age and people younger. Cause you could see classical 966 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 4: violin that's the thing people do, and sometimes jazz. But 967 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,879 Speaker 4: in the in the in the mainstream part of the world, 968 00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 4: there's not a lot of folks doing it. 969 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 5: Really, Lawrence gave you some added confidence for your mission. 970 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,919 Speaker 3: They did, but yeah, they did, he said. 971 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 4: He said, you know a lot of people when they 972 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 4: see the fiddle, they want to make me more country, 973 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 4: you know. And I like country, I love it and 974 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 4: all that, and I get it. But I'm not trying 975 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 4: to do what's already been done, and I knocked at 976 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 4: all countries been done. I'm trying to have a thing 977 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 4: I'm trying to do. Even though I broke my finger 978 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 4: in twenty eleven and still have three pins in it 979 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 4: on my fiddle playing finger, I can still get down 980 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 4: and jam the hell out of it, Like if we 981 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 4: were in a dueling fiddle situation or cutting heads, as 982 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 4: Jason was saying, you were having like a fiddle off, 983 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,879 Speaker 4: or even with guitar players. I can out solo some 984 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 4: of the best of them. And if you don't believe me, 985 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,360 Speaker 4: get me on that stage and I will show you 986 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:53,879 Speaker 4: your ass. And so what they did is they don't 987 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 4: try to make me do They're just like like me 988 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 4: in service of the song. They're not like, oh, we 989 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 4: can't do effect pedals fiddle into effects like guitar players 990 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 4: use all these cool pedals. Why can't I Because it's 991 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 4: a fiddle and you have to stay country. And I 992 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 4: like country, but country tends to go forward too. We're 993 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 4: not all singing like Hank Snow right now. I love home, 994 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 4: but we're not all singing like Hank Snow right now. 995 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,319 Speaker 5: So if somebody was just dropped onto this planet and 996 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 5: had never experienced music in their life, how would you 997 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 5: explain to them how important music is and what it 998 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 5: does and why it's so a part of our lives. 999 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 4: What was our first language? Uh, we didn't really have 1000 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 4: a language before music. We kind of communicated with little 1001 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 4: rhythms and grunts and sounds. And you know, apparently that's 1002 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 4: what I've been told. Singing and and then connection, you know, 1003 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 4: whether or not like past that idea doesn't matter what 1004 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 4: language you speak. Like, we've all been making joyful noises 1005 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 4: for a long time, Like it doesn't matter what language 1006 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 4: you speak. When you put on music, you can feel 1007 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,439 Speaker 4: a way of feel a certain way, and it makes 1008 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 4: you feel things in in music also is so attached 1009 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 4: with our memories that you can remember, Like if you 1010 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 4: hear a song, you'll remember a detail about your own 1011 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 4: life or your own something that re like occurs to 1012 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 4: you that you haven't thought of it a long time. 1013 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 4: It might won make you like call somebody or think 1014 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,600 Speaker 4: about something, or change your mind about something. Music has 1015 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,399 Speaker 4: a power to change people's minds and more than that, 1016 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 4: like you get in a room with people to see music. 1017 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 4: You're in that room and it's like a synergy. It 1018 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 4: works both ways of a live concert. You've got a 1019 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,840 Speaker 4: community in music. Uh, when you go out to a 1020 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 4: live show, you know those people and yourself have something 1021 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 4: in common with one another. So in that room you 1022 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,359 Speaker 4: feel less alone in the world. But if you hear 1023 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 4: songs too, it gives you language to your own emotions 1024 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 4: and feelings, like how many times were we even younger 1025 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 4: or even grown ups? Like now do we do we say? Oh, 1026 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 4: I was thinking about you today, here's this song? Or 1027 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 4: sorry you're going through that there's a song that I 1028 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 4: like to play sometimes when I feel this way, or 1029 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 4: sometimes when you have nothing to say, you can just 1030 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 4: listen to music. Not only is it the background to 1031 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 4: our lives here this person that we've never met that's 1032 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 4: landing on our planet. Also, do you need something different 1033 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 4: than oxygen to read? While I tell you this? Steer 1034 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 4: because if you're running little it's cool. I heard you 1035 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:30,959 Speaker 4: live in a spaceship under the water. 1036 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:31,839 Speaker 3: Is that true? 1037 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 4: Back to music? Let's talking to her invisible alien or 1038 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 4: whoever it was. But you know, you could even play 1039 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,600 Speaker 4: some music for this creature that have we haven't named, 1040 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 4: and they probably have You ever read that book Stranger 1041 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 4: in a Strange Land? 1042 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 5: No? 1043 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,800 Speaker 2: I know the song. I have never read the book? 1044 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 2: Is that Robert Heinlend? I think, yes, Okay, I have 1045 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,399 Speaker 2: read it. That was many years ago. 1046 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 4: I could be mistaken. Is there a part Whady hears 1047 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 4: music for the first time. I haven't read about six years. 1048 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good one to go back on. 1049 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 4: I wonder. 1050 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:08,520 Speaker 3: But there's. 1051 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,320 Speaker 4: There's a thing that happens where you can feel it, 1052 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 4: or you can tap it out or not, or you 1053 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 4: can just hate it like you could listen to Fugazzi 1054 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 4: for two weeks and just want to turn it off. 1055 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 4: I don't know there's things to like about it, cause 1056 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:26,879 Speaker 4: it led me to Leonard Cohen, But it is if 1057 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 4: you paint, sing or even hold it to and you 1058 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 4: don't have to play an instrument to enjoy it. It's 1059 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,800 Speaker 4: a place where you can oftentimes find common ground or 1060 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,399 Speaker 4: or conversation with folks. If you have nothing to talk about, 1061 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,240 Speaker 4: you can generally talk about music. 1062 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 3: Uh. 1063 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 4: I don't know many people that you can't talk to 1064 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,839 Speaker 4: about it, of course, except for the hearing impaired, and 1065 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 4: there's a different way for music with that for sure, 1066 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 4: But uh then we'd have to get into specifics of 1067 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 4: what type of music we're listening to. But anyway, all 1068 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 4: that to say, it's a connective and it's universal and 1069 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,879 Speaker 4: it's I treat it very, very seriously, Like I don't 1070 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 4: think myself seriously, but I take the music seriously because 1071 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 4: it's an energy. Like if you're gonna sing something, that 1072 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 4: energy goes somewhere. 1073 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 2: I like how you take a question inside out you 1074 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,880 Speaker 2: find something on the end of it to nip and 1075 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 2: tuck and poke at, and that's a that's a that's 1076 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 2: a fun way to take a question. I wasn't on 1077 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 2: my best behavior for it at first, but hopefully I'm 1078 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 2: I'm learning the Amanda Shire's way. 1079 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 4: Oh it's I just I've been told I'm a nonlinear thinker. 1080 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: Totally. Totally. Yeah, So your attraction, myself acceptance. 1081 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 4: I'm working on it because for a long time I 1082 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 4: didn't like any part of the music business that wasn't 1083 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 4: the music because the interview part would freak me out 1084 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 4: because I always get in my head about they're not 1085 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,799 Speaker 4: gonna understand me, and then I just look forward to self. 1086 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,000 Speaker 4: They're like if they if they care, they'll if they 1087 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,839 Speaker 4: care enough the interview, they're gonna put up with your 1088 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 4: nonlinear or joking you know. 1089 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: Of course, No, it's very linear. 1090 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,320 Speaker 3: It's in a circle. It's a steady circle. 1091 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 2: It is it is, but it's not a boring circle 1092 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 2: if by any stretch of the imagination. 1093 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:11,720 Speaker 4: You can ask me anything. 1094 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,760 Speaker 1: Now, So what about birds? 1095 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 4: So it's about freedom, and it's about the way they look, 1096 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 4: and it's about their traits and their unique to them 1097 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 4: things like you know with the crows, and they can 1098 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 4: make tools. It's all very fascinating to me. How they 1099 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,440 Speaker 4: they're different bird calls and what they mean all that, 1100 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:32,839 Speaker 4: I just I can't get over it. 1101 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's about the joy of them too, the. 1102 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 3: Joy their magic though. 1103 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: Or I mean, the joy is spectacular, you know. 1104 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 3: And they don't seem to want for much. 1105 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 4: You know, it's not like they're seeking a new car 1106 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 4: or a shiny new birdhouse. 1107 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:48,919 Speaker 1: Right. 1108 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think the great joy of being able to 1109 00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,839 Speaker 2: have this opportunity to speak to you on my podcast. 1110 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for me. 1111 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 3: I'm really so glad that you'd have me. 1112 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 2: Really, this is so special. I'm so grateful and thank 1113 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 2: you for this. But thank you for your music as well. 1114 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 4: Well, no problem, I'm just now starting to settle down, 1115 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 4: so I promise I'll talk less about me. 1116 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:15,800 Speaker 3: And more about y'all. 1117 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,960 Speaker 4: I know this is it's an unnatural thing, the interview 1118 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,040 Speaker 4: where we just talk about me. 1119 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 3: It feels funny, but I'm doing it. 1120 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 1: Well, you did a terrific job. 1121 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thank you, very thank you. 1122 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 4: I had a coffee and what's a candy? 1123 00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: Thank you? 1124 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 4: And if you ever need a break, you just say 1125 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,080 Speaker 4: hold on, I gotta eat this candy. 1126 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 5: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 1127 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,839 Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.