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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Four years and a hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty plus texts a day later, are we any

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Speaker 1: closer to knowing the truth about what happened to a

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Speaker 1: beautiful young woman? Four years and one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: texts plus a day later, do we ever get to

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Speaker 1: the truth? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace with Me and

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Speaker 1: All Star Panel? But let's just start at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of this nightmare story. Take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at crime online dot Com. Dave Krupa and his longtime

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Speaker 1: girlfriend Amy Flora have two children together. The couple separates

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Speaker 1: after twelve years. Flora decides to return to her hometown

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Speaker 1: of Council Bluffs, Iowa. Krupa also moves from their home

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin so he can be near his children. He

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Speaker 1: takes a job managing an auto repair shop. This newly

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Speaker 1: single dad is on his own for the first time

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Speaker 1: in a while. He decides it's time to jump back

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Speaker 1: into the dating pool. In fact, Grupa signs up for

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Speaker 1: a couple of dating sites. You have to appreciate his plight.

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Speaker 1: He's been a faithful dad and husband for twelve years,

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Speaker 1: and now suddenly he's dump back out there in the

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Speaker 1: dating pool. How could things go so wrong again? I

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Speaker 1: Mancy Grace, thanks for being with us here at Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with me. Wendy Patrick for your prosecutor, author of

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Speaker 1: Red Flags. Wendy, what's the name of your program? It's

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Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ Radio. Thanks Nancy, Today

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Speaker 1: with Doctor Wendy on k what acbq k c b Q,

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Speaker 1: And she's at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor Bethany

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Speaker 1: Marshall's psychoanalyst to the Stars, joining us out of Beverly Hills,

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Speaker 1: of course, out of Beverly Hills, star of a new

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Speaker 1: Netflix series, Blinging Empire, and you can find her at

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Derek Ellington, certified computer forensic

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Speaker 1: Examiner That's not Easy at Ellington dot net. Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on

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Speaker 1: Amazon and star of a brand new series on the

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Speaker 1: True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaison's Joseph Scott Morgan. But first

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Speaker 1: to Crime Online dot com investigative reporter Levi Page So

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Speaker 1: Dave Krupa and longtime love Amy Flora stay together twelve years,

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Speaker 1: two children together and where is it they moved to.

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Speaker 1: So he's thirty five years old, Nancy, and he moves

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Speaker 1: to Omaha, Nebraska, and he has a job working as

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Speaker 1: a manager of an as an auto repair shop at

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Speaker 1: an auto repair shop. Now you say Omaha, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was in a smaller area, Council Bluffs, Iowa. Did

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Speaker 1: I get that backwards? Well, his wife and children are

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Speaker 1: living there. It's about an hour from where he got gotcha, gotcha?

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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. This is your thingum, Bethany

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Speaker 1: joining us from Beverly Hills, renowned psycho analyst. It's really hard.

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Speaker 1: I think I would imagine after you've been in a

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Speaker 1: long term relationship, you've had twins. When you're in that relationship,

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Speaker 1: you don't think, Wow, I better stay in showy if

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Speaker 1: I'm better learn a lot of funny stories to tell

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Speaker 1: when this whole thing blows up and I have to

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Speaker 1: get back on the dating market. You don't anticipate that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen, No, Nancy. Your whole life has been

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Speaker 1: wrapped up with your spouse and your children, little league games,

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Speaker 1: art classes, all of that. You know, you don't exactly

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Speaker 1: feel sexy. Although Freud wrote extensively about this. He said

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Speaker 1: that when you're on a marriage, all your libido goes

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Speaker 1: into the other person and to your children, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't go into the self, but that when a person

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Speaker 1: breaks up, all that libido goes back into the self.

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Speaker 1: So they start working out, they get a fancy car,

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Speaker 1: they start to get mice, furniture for their apartment. And

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Speaker 1: this is what you see with singles. Newly single people

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Speaker 1: prepare themselves to date. But this poor guy, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like he either had no money to begin with, or

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Speaker 1: maybe he was quite generous left everything with his wife.

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Speaker 1: He was not exactly positioned to go out into the

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Speaker 1: dating world. He had a rough beginning of it. Aside

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Speaker 1: from the obvious emotional obstacles in starting over romantically. Derek Ellington,

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Speaker 1: certified computer forensic examiner at Ellington dot net. You also

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Speaker 1: have to be practical about who you're meeting. How should

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Speaker 1: you check these people out online? And just so you know,

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Speaker 1: I did an entire segment of my new book, Don't

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Speaker 1: Be a Victim on online dating. You know I could

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Speaker 1: write a whole book on it, but just give us

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Speaker 1: some ideas. Derek, well amanc As you and I have

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Speaker 1: talked before. There was a cartoon I saw once. It

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Speaker 1: had two little dogs sitting in front of a computer,

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Speaker 1: and one dog says to the other, the great thing

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Speaker 1: about the internet is nobody knows you're a dog and

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Speaker 1: what you're what you're able to do is to be

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Speaker 1: anybody you want to be. You can present you know,

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Speaker 1: your your image that you want everybody else to see.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think people who are who are online dating,

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Speaker 1: they're they're looking for love, They're they're very hopeful, so

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Speaker 1: they tend to paint things in a very hopeful way.

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Speaker 1: So it's tough, you know, we have to figure out

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Speaker 1: ways to uh to be critical, to not believe everything

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Speaker 1: we see and we read. But um, but it's tough.

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Speaker 1: We work a lot of cases where people get sucked

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Speaker 1: in on the dating sites and next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: they're sending huge amounts of money to people because they

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Speaker 1: get caught up in these hard luck stories that are

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Speaker 1: that are just not true. Um, a lot of grifters,

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Speaker 1: a lot of scammers on the internet. Unfortunately, you know what,

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, But I don't knock it because my nephew,

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Speaker 1: uh met a woman online, He dated several women he

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Speaker 1: met online ended up marrying one of them. They've now

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Speaker 1: been married, I guess four or five years, have a

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Speaker 1: baby boy, just bought a house. They seem so happy.

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Speaker 1: So you know, knock on wood, it does work. You

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Speaker 1: just gotta be so wary. But in this case, David

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Speaker 1: Krupa does put his toe in the water. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends. At twenty twenty, the first person

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Speaker 1: Dave met on an online dating site was a woman

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Speaker 1: by the name of Liz Gallier. Her full name is

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Speaker 1: Shanna Elizabeth Gallier, but she went by her middle name, Liz.

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Speaker 1: Liz was a single mother with two children, and her

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Speaker 1: kids were about the same age as Dave's kids. She

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Speaker 1: had a business, Liz's Housekeeping. Liz loved taking selfies and

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Speaker 1: sending them to her friends. I thought Liz was very pretty.

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Speaker 1: I was attracted to her right away, so then we

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Speaker 1: set up a date. Dave's first dates with Liz where

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Speaker 1: at a coffee shop and they just sat and chatted

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Speaker 1: sex scene. She was bright and shiny, and she was

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Speaker 1: very engaging. They had a lot of fun together. They

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Speaker 1: got along really well, and it was just a very

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Speaker 1: casual thing. And just right here, I've just got to say,

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Speaker 1: while he's having a good experience with his first date

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Speaker 1: with this woman. There's so many things. If you're on

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Speaker 1: the dating scene and your internet dating online dating number one,

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Speaker 1: meet somewhere in public for your first date. Don't let

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Speaker 1: them come to your office or where you live to

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Speaker 1: pick you up. Meet them somewhere in public well, don't

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Speaker 1: have them walk you to your car or walk you home.

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Speaker 1: Listen to me on your profile. Don't be leaning up

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Speaker 1: against your car. They cannot be identified much unless your tag.

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Speaker 1: Don't be in front of your office where you can

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Speaker 1: be traced to your office. Don't be in front of

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Speaker 1: your home. Don't be anywhere that you can be identified

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Speaker 1: and found. Go by your first name only. Don't give

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Speaker 1: too much a way about yourself. Some people even go

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Speaker 1: to the extent of using a phone app for dating

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Speaker 1: that rings with a different phone number than your actual

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Speaker 1: regular number, and it's an app you put on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone so the people that you are encountering online

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Speaker 1: don't have a way to trace to your real phone,

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Speaker 1: because then once they have your cell number, they can

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Speaker 1: then find out your background, your full name, everything about you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's real crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, will we

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Speaker 1: ever know the truth about what happened in this case.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we've got David krup died of two, out

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Speaker 1: on the dating market, just putting his toe into the

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Speaker 1: dating pool. Take a listen to our friend Keith Morrison.

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Speaker 1: I'm working, I'm behind the counter, I'm doing ten things.

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Speaker 1: It happened in an auto repair shop to a mechanic

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Speaker 1: named Dave Krooper. She walks in, I see her, We

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Speaker 1: meet eyes, and just for a moment, I kind of

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Speaker 1: stopped and I go, well, hello, he was working. She

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Speaker 1: wanted her SUV repaired, And you know, in the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind, I'm thinking a wile she's gorgeous, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna work. I'm representing a company I worked for her.

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Speaker 1: That's aft the table. It's not a possibility. But did

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Speaker 1: you detect a little sort of signal coming back your way?

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Speaker 1: I thought I did. But then a few weeks later

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Speaker 1: it seemed like fate. Dave went on a dating website

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Speaker 1: and there she was, her profile, her picture, her name Carrie.

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Speaker 1: He started taping and just said, hey, I know you,

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Speaker 1: ha ha, and she replied same thing. So let me

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Speaker 1: understand the timeline LEAVI page. David Krupa has put his

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Speaker 1: toe in the dating pool. He had a date with

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Speaker 1: a young woman named Liz Gawler. Then we have this woman,

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Speaker 1: explained to me the timeline there, Carrie Farverer. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: met her six months after he moved to Omaha in

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, and they met at the auto repair shop

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Speaker 1: that he was managing. But now you're talking about Carrie Farver.

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Speaker 1: He met her and the auto repair Oh okay, Well

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Speaker 1: what about Liz Gawllyer. Had they already had their date? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had already been on a few dates, and he

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Speaker 1: let her know that he was not wanting to be

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Speaker 1: exclusive or serious with anyone. He just got out of

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Speaker 1: a whoa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait. Okay, let me understand something, doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: explain that to me. Because see if I was sitting

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Speaker 1: a line in my apartment on a lawn chair, and

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Speaker 1: I had nothing else and I had just busted up

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Speaker 1: with my longtime love, my two children were living an

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Speaker 1: hour away, and I managed to snag a job I'm

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Speaker 1: working all the time, I would I would have a

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Speaker 1: hard time telling somebody, hey, we're not exclusive, because I'm

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Speaker 1: totally the best thing you're find what he's not playing

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Speaker 1: a Zander right. No, there's a number of things you

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Speaker 1: never say on a first date. You do not say

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be exclusive. You don't say I

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Speaker 1: have a terminal illness. You don't say my family if

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Speaker 1: they're all alcoholics. You don't say I just filed for bankruptcy.

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Speaker 1: You do not spill the contents of your mind. You

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Speaker 1: hold a few cards close to the back. You mean

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Speaker 1: the bad cards skate, Yeah, I advertising, though. You hide

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Speaker 1: the relatives in the closet and hope they all don't

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Speaker 1: jump out and question your new partner. You know. Helen Fisher,

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Speaker 1: who's a cultural anthropologist, says she does brain scans, and

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Speaker 1: she says that when you first meet somebody, the experience

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Speaker 1: of falling in love, the activity in the brain, it

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Speaker 1: mimics doing cocaine. There's such a dopamine surge that you

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Speaker 1: cannot know the reality of who you're dating for at

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Speaker 1: least six months. It takes six months of dating for that.

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Speaker 1: I got a correct real Miss Bethany Marshall, doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: because I really did not know what I had a

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Speaker 1: hold of until David and A were married and we

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Speaker 1: were raising the twins. I thought he was great, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't know how great he was until we got married.

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Speaker 1: And let me just say, you know what hit the

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Speaker 1: fan with me being in, I see you, the twins

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Speaker 1: being in, I see you, everything going crazy for the

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Speaker 1: longest time. You know, I've been in a wheelchair with

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Speaker 1: the twins. You remember my pregnancy, and David was there

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Speaker 1: every step of the way and still is so I

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Speaker 1: you know sometimes but it takes six months. What now, Well,

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Speaker 1: this supports what she's saying. She says that months seven

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Speaker 1: or eight you begin to know the reality of who

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Speaker 1: that other person is, and then all that heightened sexuality

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Speaker 1: and passion at the beginning gives way to something better,

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Speaker 1: which is meaning devotion and love for each other. You know,

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Speaker 1: Nancy and doctor Bethany, one of the things that you

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Speaker 1: both are saying is that early on in a dating relationship,

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Speaker 1: you're not focused on credibility but chemistry, and unfortunately, due

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Speaker 1: to this endorphin that doctor Bethany is talking about, that

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Speaker 1: sometimes overrides the red flags I talked about in my

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Speaker 1: book and Nancy that you talk about in your book

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Speaker 1: on Your Victim, on the chapter on online dating, because

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Speaker 1: we're not paying attention to the external cues that maybe

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Speaker 1: we should have been because we might have made better decisions.

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Speaker 1: You made a great choice, Nancy, but not everybody is

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to meet, especially on online dating sites. Somebody

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Speaker 1: that's going to turn out to be that credible, well,

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Speaker 1: I can't take any credit. I think the Lord is

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Speaker 1: really looking out for me. It was a fluke that

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Speaker 1: I ended up with David and the best, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the best things that ever happened to me.

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Speaker 1: But I cannot take the credit. You know, guys, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about this young man, David Krupa, just out of

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Speaker 1: a twelve year relationship. He has a couple of online

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Speaker 1: dates with one woman, her name Liz Gawyer. Then he

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Speaker 1: meets Carrie Farver. Now, thankfully, he and Liz had made

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Speaker 1: it clear to each other that they did not want

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Speaker 1: to be exclusive. What led him to say that that

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Speaker 1: early on in the relationship take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at dateline. He invited carry back to his place,

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Speaker 1: and she agreed, and that's when something else happened. Just

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Speaker 1: as they walked into the apartment, the doorbell rang. It

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Speaker 1: was Dave's ex girlfriend, Liz, here to pick up some

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Speaker 1: things she'd left behind in his apartment. Awkward, but Carrie

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Speaker 1: just laughed bowed out. She said, I get it, it's

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Speaker 1: not a big deal. I'm gonna go home. You're calling

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Speaker 1: me when you're done dealing with this mouse. So Dave

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Speaker 1: escorted Carrie to the door, and her and Liz passed

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Speaker 1: each other. At that moment, there were no words spoken.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand, LEVI page, explain to me. How

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Speaker 1: is it that although they didn't want to be exclusive,

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Speaker 1: Liz Gallier already had stuff her stuff at his apartment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had some things at the apartment, and she popped

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Speaker 1: over on announced. And Barber had been staying at his

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Speaker 1: apartment a lot because she lived an hour away in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: But her office where she was working as a computer programmer,

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Speaker 1: was near her near his apartment, so she was over

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Speaker 1: there a lot. So the two women meet. Now, I

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Speaker 1: thought they weren't exclusive for Pete's sake, But you know

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Speaker 1: what I've found, doctor Bethany Marshall. Have you found that

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Speaker 1: when people break up, they have an excuse why they

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Speaker 1: have to go back and get what my Bobby pen

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Speaker 1: I left on your kitchen counter last week? You know,

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Speaker 1: why do you have to go back and get something

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Speaker 1: that obviously you're not missing anyway, Nancy. I always say,

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Speaker 1: leave it behind, leave it alone. Okay, so you left

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Speaker 1: your your cutest top at your boyfriend's house and you

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Speaker 1: broke up. Leave it there. But you know, people aggonize women,

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Speaker 1: especially Oh, I have my hair brushed, my makeup. You know,

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Speaker 1: should I just ask her to put it in his hair?

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Speaker 1: Egg Like, go just back, calling energy of the CVS

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Speaker 1: and get some new cover girl, get some more mascara.

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Speaker 1: You're fine. I think it's a reason, an excuse to

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Speaker 1: go back to see the person that you've broken up with.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Dave Krupa and Carrie Farvar's

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Speaker 1: relationship is short lived. In November, she broke up with

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Speaker 1: her new boyfriend through a text message from her phone.

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Speaker 1: Just after that, another message was sent to her boss,

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Speaker 1: quitting her job, and then more she stopped going home

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Speaker 1: to see her family, even her teenage son who was

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Speaker 1: in high school. Then text messages and social media updates begin.

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Speaker 1: Farther tells her family she needs a break, she's moving

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Speaker 1: to Kansas to take a new job, and she doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to see any of them indefinitely. Crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a very odd scenario.

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Speaker 1: This guy knew on the dating scene after a twelve

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Speaker 1: ear relationship, has a few online dates with a woman

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Speaker 1: named Liz Gayer. Then he meets Carrie Farther and he

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Speaker 1: falls for her, but suddenly she up and leaves, texting

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Speaker 1: him bye bye. An online break up. But she doesn't

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Speaker 1: just break up with him, she breaks up with her family,

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Speaker 1: her job, and takes off to Kansas to start all

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Speaker 1: over again. You know, I could buy all that, Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, you're the professor of forensics, except how do

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Speaker 1: you break up with your son? I mean, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I go to hell and back to get my twins,

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Speaker 1: to get to my twins. I find that hard part,

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Speaker 1: very hard to believe. Yeah. Yeah, Kim and I were

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Speaker 1: sitting around the other night just reflecting over this past

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Speaker 1: year and how hard it's been. You know, he went

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Speaker 1: off to basic training and all these sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: He was out of our life for that period of

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Speaker 1: time COVID, and you know, it really gives you pause.

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Speaker 1: You know, the small being that you've raised, You know,

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Speaker 1: you were there. I was there to clip the chord.

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Speaker 1: You know when he was born. How do you just

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Speaker 1: walk away from that and not just that sight and scene.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see any of you people, and

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Speaker 1: that's inclusive. That's all inclusive. We're talking about mom, dad,

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Speaker 1: this precious son that she has. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: see any of you guys. And not only that, I'm

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Speaker 1: going I'm going to wait to another state. And for

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Speaker 1: me as an investigator, that's a red flag. But the

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Speaker 1: problem with this Nancy, and we've run into this time

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Speaker 1: and time again with missing persons cases. For instance, if

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Speaker 1: someone goes to the cops and says, hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to report my daughter missing, if they're of age at

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Speaker 1: that point in time, you know, the cops will look

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Speaker 1: at you and say, look, you got this electronic trail

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Speaker 1: that's left behind. There's an animal thing to do with you,

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Speaker 1: you know, say love. And there's also the issue of

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Speaker 1: routine evidence. And I really don't like the name of that,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, but what it means it's not everyday evidence

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Speaker 1: that you see all the time. It's evidence of a

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Speaker 1: routine There was no indication that this woman, Carrie Farber,

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Speaker 1: had ever left her son. Her family refused to speak

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Speaker 1: to them as a matter of fact, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends on tangled web Terry's mother had filed

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Speaker 1: the missing person report with the police, and she was

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Speaker 1: becoming increasingly concerned with each passing day. In the weeks

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Speaker 1: after she left, Carrie was still communicating with her family.

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Speaker 1: She would send text messages to her mother, Nancy. When

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Speaker 1: I get text messages, I would just say, please call me.

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Speaker 1: I just need to hear your voice. And she would say, well,

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Speaker 1: this has got to be good enough for you. Whoa

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Speaker 1: just the text has to be good enough for you.

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Speaker 1: That's contrary to her years and years and years routine behavior.

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Speaker 1: While Carrie's family is concerned that she just up and

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Speaker 1: moves to Kansas, Dave Krupa, the guy who fell for her,

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Speaker 1: had a completely different reaction when Carrie farther disappears to Kansas.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at twenty twenty, Well,

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Speaker 1: Carrie's family was afraid for her, Dave Krupa was growing

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Speaker 1: afraid of her. I would regularly receive sixty plus texts

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Speaker 1: a day, one hundred emails a Dave was not like

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Speaker 1: and as far as phone calls, hundreds of hundreds, and

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Speaker 1: I had changed phone numbers so many times it was ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Carrie's rage seemed to be focused on his ex girlfriend Liz,

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Speaker 1: who he had dated Joe before he started dating Carroll.

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Speaker 1: Carrie sent messages like she is nothing, she's a fat cow.

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Speaker 1: She looks like she lost her puppy. Maybe she'll do

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Speaker 1: us all a favor and kill herself lol. She wrote, Liz,

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Speaker 1: if you don't keep your hands and lips off my man,

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Speaker 1: I will hurt you. And she seems to be everywhere.

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Speaker 1: On one specific occasion, I was sitting in my lazy

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Speaker 1: boy with my feet up, watching TV, try and relax,

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Speaker 1: and it's nighttime, and I get a text saying I

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Speaker 1: see you. You're sitting in a chair with your feet

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Speaker 1: propped up, wearing a blue shirt. And those things were true. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm two thousand miles away and it's creeping me out.

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Speaker 1: Jeff and Dotor Bethany Marshall, Well, it seems like whoever

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Speaker 1: sending these texts have become obsessed with him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is stocking behavior, right, when somebody becomes obsessed with

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Speaker 1: another person, and the person with whom they're obsessed they

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Speaker 1: have no true or actual relationship. I mean, sure, maybe

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Speaker 1: they've gone out on a couple of dates. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: had a glass of wine together, they met for coffee,

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Speaker 1: but there's nothing beyond that, And yet she becomes obsessed

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Speaker 1: with him and then stuck in feelings of rejection like

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Speaker 1: you and I've talked about so many times as the

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Speaker 1: stocking behavior, when the perpetrator imaginements there's a special and

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Speaker 1: unique relationship even when there's no evidence to support that,

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Speaker 1: and they go after the victim for perceived rejections. So

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Speaker 1: I think is deeper than doctor Bethany. I think the

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Speaker 1: rejection it's not the rejection of a guy you've dated

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Speaker 1: for you know, a month or two. It's that that

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Speaker 1: rejection triggers something else inside of you, not just that

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Speaker 1: one person rejecting you, but a feeling that you, as

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Speaker 1: a person have been rejected. What's wrong with me? What

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Speaker 1: did I do wrong? Why her? Not me? And here

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Speaker 1: we see you know that's for you. You're the shrink.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial longer like a true psychoanalyst. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you're thinking like a psychoanalyst. Now, which Hello, Now I'm scared.

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patchack, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags. Hello,

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Speaker 1: red Flags Here we see her not just going after

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Speaker 1: David Krupa, she dated and he totally fell for her.

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Speaker 1: She moves away, but she's also going after remember Liz

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Speaker 1: Gawyer that he dated and met at the coffee shop.

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Speaker 1: She goes after her and starts texting her incessantly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When you read these text messages, what it really sounds

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Speaker 1: like is not just that she was angry at him,

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Speaker 1: but it basically she took it so personally that she

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Speaker 1: ended up getting triggered for this and insecurity this obsession,

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Speaker 1: her focus became fixation, not just with her relationship, but

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Speaker 1: with anybody else this man dared have a relationship with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I find it very interesting that people, men and women

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Speaker 1: in a relationship, when your partner breaks up, you blame

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Speaker 1: the other woman or the other man. They didn't know

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Speaker 1: you a duty. It was your partner. Guys, it goes

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Speaker 1: beyond just a few messages. Take a listen to our friends.

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Speaker 1: At crime online dot com. Krupa and Gallyer received dozens

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Speaker 1: of harassing messages. The pair make repeated complaints to police

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Speaker 1: for years. Investigations show the messages were sent from accounts

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Speaker 1: bearing Farvar's name. Soon the threats become all too real.

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00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: Gallyer's house was set on fire, killing her pets, and

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Speaker 1: that's when Gallier tells police that maybe it's not Farther

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Speaker 1: sending the messages. Farther and Krupa had actually only dated

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Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, but he had had a

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Speaker 1: long term relationship and children with Amy Flora. Maybe she

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Speaker 1: was a better suspect. Oh my goodness, who's sending all

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Speaker 1: of these messages? You know? Derek Ellington, if i computer

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Speaker 1: forensics examiner at ellington dot net, Derek, how do you

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Speaker 1: go about tracing who is sending texts? And as a

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Speaker 1: whole other psychological canon worms about who would take on

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Speaker 1: if it's not if it's not Carrie Farmer, who would

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00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: take on her identity? But to you Ellington, how do

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Speaker 1: you trace who's sending texts when you see it's from

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Speaker 1: that person's phone? Well, and it can be tough. It

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00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: can be tough to trace a text message. Law enforcement

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Speaker 1: does have some capabilities when you're using traditional text messaging.

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Speaker 1: We can find out who it is through the carrier

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Speaker 1: records and stuff like that. It gets tougher when people

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Speaker 1: start using the apps and the websites and stuff to

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Speaker 1: send texts, though law enforcement can sometimes if we can

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Speaker 1: find the app that the person is using or the

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Speaker 1: website that they're using, then we can have some ways

426
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: to track back, like you know, by IP address or

427
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: something track get back to their phone. But yes, admittedly

428
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: it's difficult with the availability of these apps and spoofing

429
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: websites and things like that. Now, hold on just a moment.

430
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: Apps and spoofing websites be clear for listeners that don't

431
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. What kind of app or

432
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: spoofing website would hide or mimic someone else's cell number. Correct,

433
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of those out there, and the basic

434
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: idea is that there are apps I don't want to

435
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: name them, to not give them press, but their apps

436
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: so you can get their websites you can go to

437
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: and basically you can either sign up for a number

438
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: that is yours, which allows you to send and receive,

439
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: but it's an untraceable number, it's not tied back to you.

440
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: Or you can even go to websites and say I

441
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: wanted to send somebody a message and looks like it

442
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: came from you, Nancy. If I had your cell phone number,

443
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: I could put it in there as the from number,

444
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: and I could send somebody a text message and then

445
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: we'll look like it came from you. Time Stories with

446
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, This guy David Creep and now getting a

447
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty plus texts a day. Take a listen

448
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: to this nine one one call one with seats of

449
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: your emergency. Oh yeah, I've been shot awake? Okay? Where

450
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: are you at park by the sheriffs part my big

451
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: Blake Park? Yes? Do you know who did it? Okay?

452
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: What's your phone number? And that's from the potent Tali

453
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office. Take a listen to more that nine

454
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: one one call? When did it happen? Well, I'm also

455
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 1: you to walk from the place. See in my car? Okay?

456
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: Is the assailant still near by? I don't think so.

457
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: I took on burning? Okay, which way? How many people

458
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: were there? Yeah? Oh I don't know how I lay

459
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: in one? Do you know if it was a mail

460
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: or female femail? Do you know which way? Oh? It's

461
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: in the op direction that I went And I don't know?

462
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: Straight out to you leave my page? Crime online dot

463
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter who is shot in the leg. So

464
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: what you just heard is Shana Liz Golder, who called

465
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: nine one one. She said that she was walking alone

466
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: at night in twenty fifteen at Big Lake Park and

467
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: someone shot her in the leg. You know, shot in

468
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: the leg, Jessica Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. You

469
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: shoot somebody in the femoral artery and the top of

470
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: the leg, they're dead. They bleed out just like that. Yeah,

471
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: you can. You know that the femoral artery splits off

472
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: of the base the A order, which is the largest

473
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: vessel in the body, So yeah, you can bleed out easily.

474
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: I think as an investigator, I'd want to know specifically

475
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: where she was shot anatomically, you know what portion of

476
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: the leg. And also I'm going to get her clothes

477
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: if she which obviously she would go into the emergency room.

478
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: I'd want to check things like range of fire. You know,

479
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: she's telling me she's just been assaulted by another woman

480
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: with a firearm and the other woman ran away. This

481
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: is a typical Nancy always really a typical and right

482
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: now apparently the victim, Shanna Liz Gallier, is saying it's

483
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: not Carrie Fever, the girlfriend, It's not her, the one

484
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: that moved away. Maybe it's David Creepa's longtime love is

485
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: common law wife, so to speak, the mother of his

486
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: two children that lives just one hour away. So I

487
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut twelve.

488
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: This is a call we get Liz gall Your home

489
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: from the hospital. This is a call between detectives and

490
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: Liz gall Your seeking gall Your's help. See if you

491
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: could kind of push her for some more info on

492
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: the carry thing, what she did to carry and so

493
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: forth like that, that would help our case immensely if

494
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: it was more specific. So you guys want me to

495
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: try and email her back. I'm leaving that in her court, Liz.

496
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean, if that's something you would feel okay doing,

497
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: that'd be really helpful for us. So you're hearing from

498
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: our friends at a tangled Web twenty twenty. Let me understand,

499
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: do you leave ipage crime online dot Com detective then

500
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: elicit Gawlier to try to lure in the x X

501
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: the mother of the children, to reveal it's really her.

502
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: Is that's what? Is that? What's happening right now? Yes, So,

503
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Liz Gawlier had been shot and she said that it

504
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: was Amy Flora. Dave Krupa's X, the mother of his

505
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: two children, and she is communicating with Liz and they

506
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: want to get a confession out of her, not only

507
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: that she shot Liz, but that she was responsible for

508
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: Carrie Farber's disappearance. The plot begins to thick, and now

509
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: Liz Gawlier, the girlfriend, reveals an email sent by the X,

510
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: Amy Flora. Listen to this, I think now are we

511
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: finding out what happened to care when she moved away? Listen,

512
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: when I met Crazy Carry, she would not stop talking

513
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: about Dave and him being her husband. She tried to

514
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: attack me, but I attacked her with a knife. We

515
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: stabbed her three or four times in the chest and

516
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: stomach area, and then took her out and burned her.

517
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: I stuffed her body in a garbage can with crap.

518
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: The details were bone chilling because they were graphic. You're earing.

519
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: Detectives read an email allegedly sent by the X of

520
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: twelve years, the mother of the two boys, Amy Flora too,

521
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: Liz Gallier, the one on the dating website. Wow, so

522
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: there we have Amy Flora confessing to murdering Carrie. Do

523
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: we have the answer yet about what happened to Carrie? Listen.

524
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: We opened up this door, we pulled out the passenger seat,

525
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: and we pulled off the fabric off that passenger seat,

526
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: and that's where we found that big red stain right

527
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: in the bottom of the seat. It's a positive test

528
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: human blood. So like we had located the murder scene. Finally,

529
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: tangible evidence, finally instead of digital evidence. We took the

530
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: DNA from the blood that we found on the seat

531
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: and it was a match for carry Farber's DNA. It's

532
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: a huge moment. It changed this from a missing person's investigation,

533
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: and that was a homicide investigation. So Carrie, this innocent woman,

534
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: Carrie Farver, her blood is drenching the seat of this

535
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: car that was the primary d crime scene. To you,

536
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, she didn't move away. She's dead. No.

537
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: I urge all of our listeners to go online and

538
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: take a look at this image. I looked at it

539
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: and I was shocked. Nancy, this is what we would

540
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: for too as a supersaturated site. It's evidence of what

541
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: we in fancy terms, what we'd say as copious amounts

542
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: of blood. It's a lot of blood, Nancy. It went

543
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: through the top layer of the seat, through the phone

544
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: padding and down to the base level and right you

545
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: are when you say that this is the primary site, Nancy.

546
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: She would have had to have sat there for a

547
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: protracted period of time for all of this blood to

548
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: drain down, let's just say, from the chest area, between

549
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: her legs, around her legs, through her own clothing, and

550
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: then seat down into the fabric of the seat. She

551
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: was there for a while. She in my opinion, at least,

552
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: I think that she probably breathed her last right there

553
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: in that very spot where the police were taking a

554
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: look and had taken this. There can't be that much

555
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: blood and the person still be alive. So the bizarre

556
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: nature of the X of twelve years the mother of

557
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: the two children carrying a torch for David Krupa all

558
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: this time. Wait a minute, another twist. Listen to Detective

559
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: Dave Schneider. No, the reason why you're in this chair

560
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: right now today, it's because you have a lot of

561
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: questions that you need the answer for me. Her phone

562
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: was at your house right after she disappeared. I want

563
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: to ask you how you can explain that to me. Please,

564
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: She's never been to my house. Your fingerprints are inside

565
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: her vehicle. How would your fingerprints be inside her vehicle?

566
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I've never been in her car.

567
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: You drove her car? No, we didn't. I've never been

568
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: inside her car. I've never even been around her car. Ever,

569
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: your praying your prints are in there. No, I haven't.

570
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: I'm not lying. I've never been around her car. I've

571
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: never even seen it. Guys, you're not hearing the voice

572
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: of the x of twelve years, the mother of the

573
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: two boys of David Krupa. You are hearing the online

574
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: dating girlfriend. It's Shanna Liz Gallier. Let me understand, leave

575
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: I paca. For four years, Gallier has been pretending to

576
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: be the dead woman. You're absolutely correct, Nancy, and Liz

577
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: Gallier's fingerprint was found inside the vehicle of Carrie Farber.

578
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: Not only that, Carrie Farber's phone, her camera, and belongings

579
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: were found inside Liz Goyer's apartments. Isn't it true that

580
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: there was a photo of a decomposed foot found on

581
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: Galler's phone. You're absolutely right. It was a tablet, and

582
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: they searched the tablet and there was a photo of

583
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: a foot on Liz Gawyer's phone, and it had the

584
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: Chinese word for mother on the ankle, the same tattoo

585
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: that Kaitlin Farber has. Derek Ellington, was there any way

586
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: police could have busted this case before now? I mean,

587
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: they had no reason to suspect the online dating profile

588
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: girl is Gawyer well Nancye. That's what's heartbreaking about this case,

589
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: especially for the Farmer family and for her son. While

590
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: the law enforcement did an excellent job once they decided

591
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: to pursue the case, I believe it was a failure

592
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 1: of law enforcement from the beginning. They had so many resources,

593
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: even stuff they talk about tracking the cell tower data

594
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: for the phone following the text message, even emails. Emails

595
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: give you so much more of an ability to trace

596
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: somebody in the text message. And the takeaway I believe

597
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: is if you're in the situation where a family member

598
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: is missing and you have a concern, you have to

599
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: be the squeaky wheel. You have to stay on top

600
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: of it. So again, the initial failure of law enforcement

601
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking. Once they decided to take the case serious,

602
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: it just all fell into place. Dator Bethanie Marshall, I

603
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: need to shrink and how explain this? How could this

604
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: woman pose as the dead victim? Carrie Farber. I mean

605
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: she only dated David Cruper for two weeks, right, and

606
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: then she moved away. She was dead all this time,

607
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: and apparently Liz Gawyer was sending one hundred and sixty

608
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: texts plus a day to Krupa to Carrie Farber's family

609
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: four years. Nancy, I'll never forget a show. I was

610
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: on on hl End with you your show, the Nancy

611
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: Gray Show, and we were covering a case of a

612
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: woman who was stalking another woman, and the soccer had

613
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: taken up residence in the basement underneath her victim's house.

614
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: Not even not even the basement, actually, it was just

615
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: the floorboards. She had herself squeezed right under the floorboards

616
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: so she could hear all of the activities and the

617
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: phone conversations and the life of the woman she was stalking.

618
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: And that was my first introduction to how serious stalking

619
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: can be, beyond what you read in the literature or

620
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: all the studies that this was a face to this

621
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: kind of crime. In this case, what I think it's

622
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: fascinating is Gallier not only stalks a man she has

623
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: been dating for two weeks, but in some ways she

624
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: assumes the identity of Farber, not just to throw people

625
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: off the track that she's killed Farber, but also she

626
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: takes a symbol of Farber's motherhood. You know that there's

627
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: a tattoo indicating that she's a mother on her foot.

628
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: Gallier takes a picture of the decomposing foot. It's just

629
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: as she was stalking both victims, the mother who had

630
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: a beautiful life and the so called boyfriend she had

631
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: dated for two weeks, as if everybody else's life is

632
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: better than hers. She's full of envy. She feels rejected,

633
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: its us into something historical for her, and she kind

634
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: of morphs into those people's lives and becomes them in

635
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: some very sick, pathological way. Guys, don't worry. This woman,

636
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: Shannel Liz Gawyer is serving life behind bars for the

637
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: murder of her perceived love rival, the victim, Carry Farmer,

638
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: and then posing as her on social media for four

639
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: years to cover up the crime. Left behind the victim's

640
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: family wondering what happened. Nancy Gray's crime story signing off

641
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,