1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I've 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: never told you protection of ByHeart Radio. And today we 3 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: have another interview for you, and it is with two 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: people that we love, who we know, who we got 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: to see recently at a book launch, and we're really 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: really excited to share this interview with you, so let's 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: get into it. 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: Today. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: We are so excited to be joined by friends of 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: the show, friends in real life, Holly and Maria, who 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: have done so many amazing things, including writing a book 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about. Can you both introduce 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: yourselves to your audience, to your audience. 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: Our audience, to the audience. 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 4: You go first, Maria, My name is Maria TREMARKI and 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 4: I met Holly about a twenty million years ago and 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 4: we were writing and editing together. We came back together 18 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 4: about five years ago to do the podcast Criminalia, and 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 4: part of that podcast meant that recently we have written 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 4: a book. 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, So I am Holly Frye. I co host Criminalia 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 5: with Maria and also stuff you missed in history class 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 5: and I really like drinks. So I pulled the sweetest 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 5: scam in the world and figured out a way to 25 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 5: make drinking part of my job because Criminalia has a 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 5: drink segment and now it has a cocktail book. 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: Amazing. I didn't think we'd be here, but here we are. 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: It really is amazing. There are so many recipes in here, 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: and there's both cocktail and mocktail versions. It's just an 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: astounding amount of research. 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 4: Right, a lot of cocktails and marktails, a lot of stories. 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 4: I know we both did a ton of research for 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 4: both of those things. 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, along coming. 35 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, we realized in our third season, which was Mocktail Forward, 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 5: because we were talking about impostors, we had a number 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 5: of people tell us like I love the mocktails, I'm 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 5: actually sober, or I just don't like to drink. Could 39 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 5: you do this all the time? And after that we've 40 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 5: had them every season, So the book offered a good 41 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 5: opportunity to go back to those earlier seasons and reconfigure 42 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 5: those so that they also had a mocktail with them, 43 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 5: which was fun. 44 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 6: So just to kind of start at the beginning, how 45 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 6: did this podcast now book all of the things come about? 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 6: Because this is an intriguing topic. 47 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: This began with Holly, so I'll let her start the story. 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 5: Yeah, So Criminalia is part of the Shondaland slate of podcasts, 49 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 5: which I was originally executive producing that slate and Ours 50 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 5: and Boss Boss Connell Burn had brought me the story 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 5: of Julie Tafana, which I had already heard about, and 52 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 5: he said, is this a podcast? And she was a 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 5: woman poisoner of ancient Rome, and I was like, no, 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 5: but it's the kernel of one like she her story 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 5: is not substantial enough and there's not enough substantive research 56 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 5: material to make that into a whole show on its own. 57 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 5: But there's something here about this idea of women who 58 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 5: are killers and women who are poisoners and doing something 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 5: true crimey that's not contemporary, that has a little more 60 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 5: distance and feels a little less voyeuristic. So that's where 61 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 5: it all started. And then I immediately was like, hey, 62 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 5: I'm already writing a show that being history class and 63 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 5: I was like, I don't think I can also write 64 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 5: this show. So that I know who can, And Mariana 65 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 5: is the one and only person I reached out to you. 66 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: She got a. 67 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 5: Flurry of very aggressive texts one day. 68 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: I wouldn't call them aggressive, but I would call them 69 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: a flurry. 70 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: Yes, it was just very intense. 71 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 5: It was like, Hey, I'm starting a show and I 72 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 5: would like you to write it, and also here's what 73 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 5: it's about, and also here's what it would involve, and 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 5: here's what So uh, text me back after you get 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 5: these thirty seven different things about what I'm thinking. 76 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 4: And imagine imagine me though, I'm on an airplane when 77 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: all of these are coming in and I am deplaning, 78 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 4: when they're all coming to my phone, and. 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to read all of these, I'm like, 80 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: what is is Holly? Okay, like Holly, dial nine one one, 81 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: this is what is happening. 82 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 4: But I had I had never I have never been 83 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 4: in the podcast world before. I'd never written anything for 84 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 4: podcasts and co hosted, hosted any any any of the 85 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: above things for a podcast. And I was immediately intrigued 86 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 4: by that and the fact that it was historical true crime, 87 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: that it wasn't going to be you know, ten years 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 4: ago this thing happened, and you know, the family is 89 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: still dealing with it and it has emotion about it, 90 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: and people are you know, we've both talked about how 91 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 4: we never wanted a scenario where someone's going to show 92 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 4: up at somebody's house and it's because of that particular 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 4: crime story. So working in the historical true crime field 94 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 4: has been really interesting because you see parts of the 95 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: world through a very different eye. Like Pirate season in 96 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 4: particular was like that for me, like you really you know? 97 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: And they would and it's it's funny. Some seasons will 98 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 4: pop up in other seasons too, which I always really enjoy, 99 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 4: Like Arsenic became a character for us in our first 100 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 4: Ladies Who Poisoned season, But now when it pops up, 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 4: I always have and it sounds terrible to say, but 102 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 4: I always have kind of a bit of affection for 103 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 4: when I see Arsenic poison like murder by Arsenic because 104 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 4: it was my very first season of Criminale some good thought. 105 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: You're like, oh, I know you very well. 106 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 5: I was joking the other day because it came up 107 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 5: and I was like, hello, Arsenic. 108 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 7: We did. 109 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 4: We did, actually just have a script for an episode 110 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 4: where Arsenic was the method of death. And I I 111 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: want to say that I chose it because of the story, 112 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: but I know that part of me also chose it 113 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 4: because the story included Arsenic. 114 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 5: Maria's Arsenic bias is really driving the bus. 115 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 4: It is it is you just you just wait and see, 116 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 4: like it's going to come up in everything from now on. 117 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 4: I will find it. I'll be like ours, surely there 118 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 4: was arsenic here somewhere. 119 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: We'll find it. 120 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 4: I will track it down and I will write an 121 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 4: episode about it. 122 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: That's funny. I love that. 123 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: Well. 124 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: You know, we have talked a lot about women in 125 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: true crime on this show, and I think it's really 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: interesting to hear you both being really careful with it 127 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: and having these different seasons where some seasons are more 128 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: difficult than others, like maybe taking more of a toll, 129 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: like the Art Height season. You Art Height season you've 130 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: talked about it was really fun. Yeah, But then you're 131 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: doing you're working on cold cases, right like, and that 132 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: one's much more difficult. 133 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: So cold cases is hard. 134 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: Cold cases is hard. 135 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, Partners in Crime turned out to be much harder 136 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 4: than I thought it was going to be as well. 137 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: That was our previous. 138 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: Season, probably the most violent season. 139 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: Yes, that's why I think I think so too. 140 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 4: There was resolution, which is always it's always nice to 141 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 4: have resolution in these which we aren't getting in cold cases. 142 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: You know you're getting these really. We were just recording one. 143 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: This week where there's a very violent murder that happens, 144 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: and then dot dot dot. 145 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: You know. 146 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 4: But what's interesting about the seasons is they all sort 147 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 4: of focus a little bit differently, Like some of a 148 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: really kind of fun like impostors. There were people who 149 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: didn't you know, they just made people up. They weren't 150 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 4: they weren't pretending to be people who existed. Most of 151 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 4: the time, you know, they're just kind of in it 152 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 4: for the rush. But then you have some seasons where 153 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 4: you're like, wow, this is this is really like you 154 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 4: get to the end and right before the cocktail, you're 155 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: thinking to yourself, this was a really difficult story to tell, 156 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 4: and I need a second to just take a breath, 157 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 4: and then then we'll talk about cocktails and mocktails to 158 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 4: lighten it up a little bit. But yeah, we still 159 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: talk about doing a second season of art Heists, which 160 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 4: I think would be great because usually nobody dies, you know, 161 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 4: they're pretty fun to yeah, yeah, and sometimes you get 162 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 4: like sometimes you get people where you're like you tried 163 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 4: it that way, like you thought that was going to work. 164 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: You just put it in your pocket and laughed, like. 165 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, there there are some some rough ones. Our 166 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 5: Witchcraft season was someone very difficult because a lot of 167 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 5: it is very steeped obviously in misogyny and like people 168 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 5: having a bias to just presume anyone that didn't live 169 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 5: the way they did must be inherently evil. And so 170 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 5: there was a lot of I'm using the air quotes's 171 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 5: evidence that was really more like just oh, you're just eccentric, 172 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: or you're or you wronged me once, so I'm going 173 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: to accuse you of this thing, and you will die 174 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 5: because you pissed me off once, like, which. 175 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 4: Is which came up a lot, and it was that 176 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 4: was really disturbing season. 177 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: You know, it was very difficult. 178 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 4: We combined it with alchemy, and for the most part 179 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: what we you know, like if you just looked at 180 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 4: at at the surface of it, the female witches were 181 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 4: all burned alive, and the alchemists just went on to 182 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: do something else maybe or somebody didn't really read there exactly, 183 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 4: maybe nobody read their their journal paper that they put 184 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 4: out that year, like I I you know, it was 185 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 4: such a just such a stark difference between the two 186 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 4: and you know, and that the consideration of dark arts 187 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: was still for both of them, even though they were 188 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 4: treated so differently. 189 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: Well, I'm interested in how because the book you had 190 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: to choose, you had to really curate on this, like 191 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: the stories and the cocktails, and it's fantastic. We got 192 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: to go to your to a reading that you all 193 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: did and there was. 194 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 7: There. 195 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: It was lovely. 196 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: It was like halloweenish time and it was kind of 197 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: a halloweenish cock It was so nice. 198 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: That was I think sort of the unofficial book launch. Yeah, 199 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: we had. It was a nice time. We had a 200 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: cider drink that we were. 201 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 3: Doing pumpkin apple cocktails exactly. 202 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 6: Which, by the way, I have created one of the 203 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 6: cocktails with the I don't know why I was showing 204 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 6: off the cup like you can stay the ingredients, but yes, 205 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 6: I did create one from the. 206 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: Cop I had to get a fancy cup. 207 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 6: But yeah, so I did the Galen's gulp. I told 208 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 6: Holly because I was like, I have these ingredients. Yeah, 209 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 6: because I was like, oh no, but I for research 210 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 6: only quite delicious. But I love that this book happened. 211 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 6: How did this book come about? We talked about the podcast, 212 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 6: now tell us about the book, which are all the 213 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 6: good cocktails the book. 214 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 3: Similarly, Maria got a text because I didn't. 215 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 5: It was always a little bit of a finger cross 216 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 5: in the back of my head, like I churned into 217 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 5: a book, but I wasn't sure we did. From the 218 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 5: jump get a lot of reach outs from listeners that 219 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 5: were like, are you gonna put this in some sort 220 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 5: of published thing, or are you gonna put this online? 221 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 5: Or so I started to put together a book proposal 222 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 5: and was talking to people on our iHeart end of 223 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 5: things and saying like, hey, you know, can we maybe 224 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 5: run this up the chain and pitch it places? And 225 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 5: they were like yes. And at that point I was like, Maria, 226 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 5: I didn't want to tell you in case it just 227 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 5: you know, sputtered out. But we're working on a book pitch, 228 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 5: so now is the time that I need to hand 229 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 5: some stuff off to you and have you go over 230 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 5: it and put your touch on it so that it, 231 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 5: you know, maintains our our vibe and whatnot. And we 232 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 5: made a bunch of cocktails and took pictures of them 233 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 5: and put them in it, and Maria fine tuned the 234 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 5: narratives and we sent it out and I'm always a 235 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 5: little I'm always a little embarrassed to say that it 236 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 5: was very desired, uh. And it actually went to auction, 237 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 5: which was cool where a bunch of publishers had to 238 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 5: put in bids, which was really surreal. It was very 239 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 5: very lucky. 240 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, you put a postal out 241 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 4: and you're like, well, maybe someone might be interested, and 242 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 4: it was it was more than one someone, and it 243 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 4: was it was really it was actually really telling that hey, 244 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 4: maybe we're we're doing something that is is interesting to others, 245 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 4: not just yes. 246 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 6: Right, I mean, it's very interesting. It's different. It gives 247 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 6: you recipes on top of the fact, you get historical 248 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 6: lessons and a beautiful illustrations. Those those pictures of the 249 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 6: cocktails are so pretty and all of that. And I 250 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 6: know Any started off the question and I didn't let 251 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 6: you finish. So how did you come to the point 252 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 6: of like picking out, picking and choosing the recipes, picking 253 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 6: and choosing the stories, because you got you guys have 254 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 6: a lot. 255 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 4: I think, well, when I was choosing, I was going 256 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 4: through this is The book actually encompasses eight seasons of 257 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 4: the podcast, but the episodes are not. It's probably about 258 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 4: fifty percent, would you say, about half and half episodes 259 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 4: from this show and then new episodes and cocktails and 260 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 4: mocktails are the other fifty percent. And so going through 261 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: eight seasons, that's a lot of seasons to go through. 262 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: But I went through not with them. 263 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: My first past wasn't with these are stories that I 264 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 4: really enjoyed telling. It was these are I was looking 265 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 4: at the pair each time, So I was looking at 266 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 4: what the cocktail mocktail was plus what the story was, 267 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 4: and did they both seem really solid to me? 268 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 2: Did they both seem like they could stand. 269 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 4: Up in a book, And did it also seem like 270 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 4: I could take the story and make it, you know, 271 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 4: a bit of a more of a postcard than an episode. 272 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 4: But that was that was where I first started, was 273 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 4: just looking at both, not just narratives, because the cock 274 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 4: it's a Killer Cocktails book, and the narratives are those 275 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 4: cocktails inspirations. So I want to make sure everybody was 276 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: very friendly, hand in hand and could stand on their own. 277 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 278 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 5: And then it becomes a little bit about balance because 279 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 5: I had picked out, like, okay, here my favorite cocktails 280 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 5: from any given season. But then are we running a 281 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 5: little too heavy on clear liquors? 282 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: Are we. 283 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 5: You know, balancing out the types of things? Are too 284 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 5: many of these floral cocktails? Because I'll admit, like I 285 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 5: love a floral cocktail. 286 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: We both do, so we could fall into that really easy. 287 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 5: I also love a deserty cocktail, so we try to 288 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 5: not only have those and be repetitive, but also try 289 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 5: to make sure that, you know, we have enough ingredient 290 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 5: repetition that it feels like a cohesive season where people 291 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 5: can make use of anything, specially they've had to buy. 292 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 5: That was kind of how we balance that out. And 293 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 5: then once we picked news stories, that was always back 294 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 5: of mind to me, Okay, what is this what is 295 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 5: this chapter now missing in terms of a balance out, 296 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 5: what is what is lacking? What would compliment the other 297 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 5: things we have so that it does, you know, give 298 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 5: some variety but also makes sense together. 299 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 4: I always have a list of episode ideas that don't 300 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 4: make it to a particular season, and so that was 301 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 4: my first place of going to when I was like, Okay, 302 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 4: we've got. 303 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: More stories that we've got to find. 304 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: And there are some people I know I wanted to 305 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 4: talk about, and some of them made it. 306 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: And some of them didn't. 307 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: You know, some of them just didn't have a strong 308 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: enough you know, primary sources or strong enough story. But 309 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: but we did have a few places where we could begin, 310 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 4: which was nice. 311 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: That I feel so hard the difficulty of finding like 312 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: primary sources so tricky. 313 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 4: Sometimes when we come across things like, you know, this 314 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 4: is the first murder ever recorded with the entire court 315 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 4: transcripts still available, I'm like. 316 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: What, this is the only document I need. We're good. 317 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: There's usually that so far away from what the reality is. 318 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely, one of the things we wanted to talk about 319 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: is you you both have been working together for a 320 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: long time. Are known each other for a long time, 321 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: I'll say, And Samantha and I also we struggle with, 322 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: you know, the sources. 323 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: We also wrote a book. 324 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: It was in different circumstances, and we had those concerns. 325 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: We had these concerns of like, will are our friendship 326 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: with the and this kind of working. 327 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 4: So there is a moment in an elevator and Atlanta Georgia. 328 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: Looked at Holly. 329 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 4: It was after we recorded the audio book, and I 330 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 4: looked at Holly and I was like, that day was exhausting, 331 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: and we actually ended up going back to our respective 332 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 4: her house in my room and just both passing out. 333 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 4: I mean, this is the kind of thing that really 334 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 4: tests your friendship. And I was like, I think we're 335 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 4: doing pretty good, and she's like, that's what you. 336 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: Think, sarcast. 337 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 4: I love that little story because I. 338 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: Actually, I do believe that we did make it through. 339 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 4: Okay, you know, like I mean, it was a lot 340 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: of pressure us back and forth and a lot of 341 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 4: just I mean, like I was saying that, there is 342 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 4: a lot of pressure, there's a lot of deadline, there's 343 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: a lot of decisions that need to be made. And 344 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 4: I I've always found that Holly and I have been 345 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 4: very collaborative through our whole work experience. So when we met, 346 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 4: I was a writer at How Stuff Works since she 347 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: was my editor, and I remember saying from time to 348 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 4: time like Holly will edit my articles and I won't 349 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 4: necessarily like she can sound exactly like me, which makes 350 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 4: our relationship ship also that much better too when it 351 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 4: comes to writing the book and putting pieces together or 352 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 4: you know, hey, I noticed this about the cocktail intro, 353 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 4: or hey I noticed this about the intro to X story, 354 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 4: and we were really able to just sort of back 355 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 4: and forth. I took care of this for you. I 356 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: you know, I noticed this for you and I it 357 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 4: was it was a question that was on my mind 358 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: before we started too I mean, this is a very 359 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 4: it's a very intimate thing to get into with another writer. 360 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, does is sound bad if I say it 361 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 5: never even occurred to me? 362 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: No, it doesn't sound bad because I think that we have. 363 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: We just kind of went right, like we're just doing this. 364 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 5: We're just start of getting it at, going back and forth, 365 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 5: and really, like even when we're prepping an episode, right, 366 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 5: Maria writes the primary, she hands it up to me. 367 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 3: I do an edit, pass, I hand it off to her. 368 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 3: She does her last edit. 369 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 5: But like any editing I'm doing is either I know 370 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 5: something about this topic, we should add this in, or 371 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 5: just the secondary ear at that point of saying, yeah, 372 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 5: you know what, if we only leave it this way, 373 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 5: I think a listener might. 374 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 3: Be confused or it won't be computed. 375 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 5: It's never like it. It's always a yes, and do 376 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 5: you know what I mean? It's never like this sucks 377 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 5: take this out. It's always like, how can we just 378 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 5: find tune this? I see what you're doing. You're like 379 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 5: ninety nine point nine percent of the way there. But 380 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 5: if we just move this phrase to the back of 381 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 5: the sentence, it's gonna make it punchier. 382 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 4: It's like all writers know that like that is that 383 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 4: is just it's critical. It's lovely to have somebody who 384 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 4: can go, you know what, I'm going to take your 385 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 4: sentence and flip it and now look at it and 386 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 4: you go, oh Jesus. I was thinking the same thing 387 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 4: the whole time, but I just didn't do it, you know. 388 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 4: And so when when we're doing the scripts, it is 389 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 4: really helpful to think about things like she'll leave me 390 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 4: little comments and you know, did you say it was 391 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 4: it this? 392 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: Or was it this? And I'm like, well, I think 393 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: it was this, you know, and I go, I gause. 394 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 2: I go back and forth a little bit, but it's uh, 395 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 2: it was at the beginning. 396 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 4: It was a little bit harder for me because I'd 397 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 4: never written anything for audio, and so I was relying 398 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 4: on Holliday to be. 399 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: Like, listen, is this correct? 400 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 4: Like is this the way that that I should be 401 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: you know, is this a good script sort of template, 402 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 4: not not to templatize what the story means, but a 403 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 4: way that I should be writing this. And that was 404 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 4: very helpful because she has a lot of podcasting experience, 405 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 4: and now I'll leave her comments where I'll be like, 406 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 4: oh my god, I can't believe that they said blah blah. 407 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: Blah blah blah, knowing that she's the next edit. You know. 408 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 4: But there's one thing actually that is a little bit 409 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 4: different in this in the in the episodes is from 410 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 4: the very beginning, I don't know and I don't want 411 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 4: to know. I've made it very clear, so this is nobody, 412 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 4: no surprise to anybody, but I'm always as surprised as 413 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 4: a listener when it comes to the cocktail and mocktail 414 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 4: segment and I don't know what it's going to be titled. 415 00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 4: I don't know what the ingredients are going to be. 416 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 4: I don't know, and I don't want to. I want 417 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 4: it to be I wanted to. I wanted to unfold 418 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 4: to me in the same way that faults in the audience. 419 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 4: And I know Allie's laughing about this, But when you've 420 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: written the narrative of it, and and you know you 421 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 4: know someone very well and she's going to be making 422 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 4: the drink that goes with this, you know, I always 423 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 4: stop and think to myself, like, this is a really 424 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 4: great quote that Holly might find inspirational for her, you know, 425 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 4: cocktail name or maybe you know, maybe the cocktail itself, 426 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 4: and whenever I come across like little sort of oddities, 427 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 4: I always make sure they get in there because I 428 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 4: want her to have as much creativity as she can 429 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 4: from that that story. 430 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: But yeah, I know nothing. 431 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: About the cocktails. I know anohing. 432 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 6: I love this conversation. That's one of the things that 433 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 6: Andy I talk about often is about our relationship and 434 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 6: being like you see so often when people don't know 435 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 6: how to work together and they can fake it, but 436 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 6: there's still just something you know and like yeah right yeah, 437 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 6: And then also just the level of support that really 438 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 6: really makes the show or really really makes a working 439 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 6: project so much better, and just out of curiosity. 440 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 3: When you guys are. 441 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 6: Working together and collaborating, does it feel like it's growing 442 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 6: your friendship or does it feel like you're having to 443 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 6: just do workure This woman dread. 444 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: Thank god she lives three thousand miles away from me. 445 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 6: Every week is a wake knuckle up here, I have 446 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 6: to get this drink done or not going to be. 447 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 3: It's great. It's so easy and so relaxed. 448 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: It really is. 449 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: It really is really easy and relax like it's a 450 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 4: kind of environment. Holly and I I feel where when 451 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: we had I'm just gonna use it. I'm going to 452 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 4: use one example from our audiobook reading experience again. I 453 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 4: had what was turning into kind of a migraine one 454 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 4: morning when I woke up at my hotel and I 455 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 4: was like, this day is full of French, which I 456 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 4: have a hard time I'm with and like, I would 457 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 4: rather be like seriously, I'm like I was talking the 458 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 4: other day. We had some Welsh names that came up, 459 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 4: or town names I think that came up in our script. 460 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 2: And I was like, Welsh is real hard, but I'd 461 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: rather do that than French because I feel like the 462 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 2: Welsh will forgive me, whereas. 463 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 3: That's fair. 464 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 4: I'm using this example as just a way of saying, 465 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 4: oh my god, I think my head is going to 466 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 4: fall off. 467 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 2: And Holly was like, well, we'll just we'll just switch 468 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 2: this and this and we'll be fine. 469 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 4: And I was like, wow, that was really easy, you know, 470 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 4: And it's just it's just very easy, you know, Hey, 471 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 4: can we switch today? 472 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: Can we do this? What about this person? 473 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 3: You know? 474 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: Like it's all very accepted and very just. 475 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 4: Part of part of what the show and book are 476 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 4: well more of the show now these days. 477 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think part of it really is just 478 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 5: there are a few components that I'm sure. 479 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: You two also know that go into like keeping. 480 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 5: It easy breezy, right, there's a lot of trusts which 481 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 5: we started out with on the show because we had 482 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 5: worked together before. And I know, like Maria doesn't drop 483 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 5: the ball. If she does some really serious going down. 484 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 2: I'm probably be cats and. 485 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 5: She would have grace from me anyway. And you know, 486 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 5: even when you would think she would, she would have 487 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 5: every excuse on earth to drop the ball. 488 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 3: She never does. 489 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 5: But also like we both know, okay, I had this 490 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 5: thing come up. Can we change this around or like 491 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 5: never scheduling this week. It's like we're both pretty unflappable. 492 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 5: We both recognize likes none of this, none of this 493 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 5: is brain surgery. We can handle this. We can work 494 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 5: around it. Like if we record on a different day, 495 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 5: it's fine. 496 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: I can't handle it. It has to be always the same. Yeah, No, 497 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: it's it's we just roll with a lot of stuff. 498 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 5: Mostly we have two hour conversations about our pets, and 499 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 5: somewhere in there we've gotten forty minutes of a show. 500 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: And then we go, oh, should we record, Like I'm. 501 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 6: I love that that's that's understandable and I approve, especially 502 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 6: especially this week because Holly has two new kiddies at home. 503 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 2: Sorry, there was a lot of conversation about kidies. It's 504 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: just like a. 505 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: Kiddie fever over here. I want to hug a cat, which. 506 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 4: Then, of course my brain is like, can I come 507 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 4: up with some sort of. 508 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: Season? 509 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 7: So that's funny cat true cat burglars hey, you know, 510 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,479 Speaker 7: and every time I'm going to be like and then 511 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 7: the tabby across the street. 512 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: Saw the man climb the pole. 513 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 6: And there's a whole narrative with the cat lady conversation, 514 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 6: with the fact that when you get like the cat scratches, 515 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 6: that actually is can. 516 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 5: Cause cat scratch fever is usually a lymphatic infection, yes, okay, 517 00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 5: but there is a specific parasite that is often in 518 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 5: many cats systems. Is it tox of plasma? Gandhi, please 519 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 5: don't it's tox of plasmosis. But it's yeah, because I 520 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 5: just got that thing wrong. But that can actually change 521 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 5: your behavior you're exposed to. 522 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 2: They're like totally in charge of you. 523 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not quite the same as like the parasitic 524 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 5: infections that like turn the host into a zombie right. 525 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 3: About. 526 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 5: You know, servitude, but there is. That's why you know, 527 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 5: pregnant women are always encouraged not to scoop litter boxes, 528 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 5: et cetera, because they're at heightened sensitivity to it, and 529 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 5: that is usually where you might be exposed to it. 530 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 4: Hey, Cat Burglary, the first episode, I'm gonna be like, 531 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 4: this is from my friend. 532 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 5: I would rob a bank if my cat told me to, 533 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 5: So that seems correct. 534 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,360 Speaker 3: But treats it. 535 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: Does, right. 536 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 4: My cat is trying to teach me new times of 537 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 4: day when she should have treats. 538 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: Just when I leave is not working, so. 539 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 3: Just like, don't leave enough. 540 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 2: So she's like, are you in the kitchen? I think 541 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: I'm in a treat You're in the kitchen. 542 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 3: They're right there. I don't understand the problem. 543 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 4: And they're behind glass cabinet door. So she's like, look, 544 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 4: I can see them. I'm going to get that parasite 545 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 4: and you. 546 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 6: Eventually, Oh, I love all these conversations and it's such 547 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 6: a great like common ground in this conversation and being 548 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 6: able to be friends and actually get along with each 549 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 6: other and enjoy each other's company. That's such a different 550 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 6: level of when it comes to especially if you're like 551 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 6: heavy dead Lives, because I know, writing a book, doing 552 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 6: the audiobook, we know. 553 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: You guys did an audio Yeah. 554 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 3: That was a surprise of us. 555 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 6: We didn't realize we had to do one, and then 556 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 6: it came up. 557 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 3: Were likely we didn't realize. Yeah, we don't know why. 558 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 3: They were like, what's happening reading our book is this is. 559 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: Like I never would have written this if I know 560 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: I had to say it out loud like. 561 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 6: The way we wrote our book to this, we were. 562 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: Like, wait, I had moments like that. 563 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 4: I was like, I never would have written it this 564 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 4: way if I knew I was going to be reading 565 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 4: the audio book. 566 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: Taken all. 567 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 3: Us bring, but you keep the Italian because I'll mess it. 568 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 4: Up right, Well, we're gonna we should have been like, 569 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 4: we'll split this up by mostly just by you know, 570 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 4: everget we did it the way that we do the 571 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 4: podcast that we just kind of you know, a alternating, 572 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 4: But yeah, we absolutely should have been like in the 573 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 4: Holly will take all the French, Marius to call the 574 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 4: Italian and well, everybody gets well. 575 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 6: I do that sometimes I do sometimes the for hour 576 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 6: we have a famished around the world type of a segment, 577 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 6: and if it's like French, I'm like, oh, Annie say this, 578 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 6: because she knows French better than in German. I'm like, 579 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 6: and then even like Mandrain she does well, I'm like, 580 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 6: I'm gonna let her handle this. 581 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 2: You're the language person. 582 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 3: I love it because you spring it on me. 583 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 6: I'm like, hey, we don't have about the last minut 584 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 6: I'm like, there it does. 585 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you go, I'm not going to read this next sentence. 586 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: That's you. 587 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 3: Essentially, that's what I put in just for you, just 588 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 3: for you, boo. 589 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 6: But all of that with that, how was the process 590 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 6: in writing this book, as well as doing the audio 591 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 6: for you? 592 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you know what. 593 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 5: A lot of it was hurry up and wait, yeah, 594 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 5: understand that. It would be like, your deadline is this week. Okay, cool, cool, cool, 595 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 5: We're gonna bang this out, no problem, we got it. 596 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 5: We have it over to you. And then it would 597 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 5: be like, are we getting pages back soon because you 598 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 5: have another. 599 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 3: Deadline coming in right and it's soon like and. 600 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 5: Then there was an interesting thing that happened because initially 601 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 5: we were both kind of looking at everything and we 602 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 5: realized we needed to silo up a little bit to 603 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 5: keep things moving along where I kind of focused on 604 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 5: the cocktail pieces and she focused on the narrative. 605 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but Souse, there were sanity at the end. 606 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 5: There were a couple moments where that bit us on 607 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 5: the tail a little bit, because then our copy editor 608 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 5: was like, wait, there's something referenced in the drink that 609 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 5: isn't in the narrative, and it was like, uh oh, spaghettios. 610 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 5: So we just had to like go back and make 611 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 5: things match up again. 612 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 3: We tried. 613 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 4: I think we might still have one or two that 614 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 4: actually made it into the book where we were like, 615 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 4: I know there's one story title that doesn't make a 616 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 4: lot of sense with the story, but what can you do? 617 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: You know, you. 618 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 4: Need to like you're the very We were at the 619 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 4: very end of the book process and I remember I 620 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 4: actually remember this particular story, and to fit the copy 621 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 4: onto the page, we needed to cut like and I 622 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 4: think I needed to cut like maybe maybe two minds 623 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 4: or something like that. 624 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 2: But in cutting them. 625 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 4: I removed the reference to the headline and I didn't 626 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 4: realize it. And I think both of us at that 627 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 4: point we had been very aware of like cutting X 628 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 4: will impact why. But when you get to the very 629 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 4: end you're like, wow, I'm at the very end, and 630 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 4: I just yeah, yeah, it's got to be done, just 631 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 4: has to has to happen. 632 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: And I think I actually went in thinking that we 633 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: have one more. 634 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 4: Look see at the the final before we went to 635 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 4: read the audio book, and I was like, this is 636 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 4: the final. 637 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: It we did too, we did, we told we had 638 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: one more. 639 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 5: I'm curious about the two of you. Did you have 640 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 5: the thing happen, because I know this happened to us, 641 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 5: where when you're reading the audiobook, which is essentially you 642 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 5: are reading from the locked manuscript, were you like, damn, 643 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 5: I wish we could have done this earlier because there's 644 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 5: some stuff I would go back into a switcher on 645 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 5: and I was like, I know, saying it out loud, 646 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 5: I don't like this as much anymore. Yeah, well, I 647 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 5: mean they were minor, but it's still there were a 648 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 5: few things that popped up, and I'm like, I would 649 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 5: have reworded that. 650 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 4: There were minor things, and they were minors so much 651 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 4: so that there was one I remember very clearly, there 652 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 4: was one stalker story that needed to end in a 653 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 4: question mark, but it ended in a period and that 654 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 4: will always haunt me. 655 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 6: Yes, We definitely had those moments, mainly because again we 656 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 6: had not even processed the idea that this was going 657 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 6: to be an audio format. Yeah, but we would have 658 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 6: like this moments of like this sounds so robotic because 659 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 6: reading it it seems like a very matter of fact 660 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 6: like information that you're just trying to get out there 661 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 6: so that the rest of the conversation or story makes sense. 662 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 6: But when you're reading it out loud, you don't know 663 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 6: how to actually relay it in a way that's both 664 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 6: interesting and noting that it's needed. So I remember a 665 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 6: couple of moments like this doesn't this doesn't sound right? 666 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that fun? 667 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 5: I absolutely considering that the origin point is a podcast, yes, right, 668 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 5: then it goes to book, but then when you read 669 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 5: the book, it doesn't sound right. 670 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 7: Yes. 671 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: When we were doing it, the person who was like 672 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: our director, she was like podcasters are terrible at. 673 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 3: This, because she was like, it's just different. 674 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: It's different having like a conversation with someone that can 675 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: like move and evolve versus I have to read this 676 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: off of page right. 677 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 678 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 6: Also, we're writing a script versus writing a story, Like 679 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 6: it's two different things than our book. 680 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like, and you're right. 681 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 4: It is the difference between writing the script for your 682 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 4: episode and writing a story that's they're a short story 683 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 4: that's going to be you know, highlighting a drink in 684 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 4: a book, it's a different kind of thing. 685 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 2: So I always I'm always reading, and I know Holly 686 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: is too. 687 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 4: When we get our scripts, we're always reading them aloud 688 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 4: and in different draft modes, you know. But when you're 689 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 4: working with the book, you are, I mean, at least 690 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 4: I was reading it aloud, but it's not quite the 691 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 4: same as when you get into that room. 692 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 2: And our room when we. 693 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 4: Did our audio book was one big recording studio, and 694 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 4: we sat in it together, which I generally when we 695 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 4: and I was outing myself as as kind of gross, 696 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 4: but like. 697 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 2: We record, I cough a lot. 698 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 4: When I'm talking for this amount of time, and so 699 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 4: it was one of those moments where you were like, 700 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 4: I can't even like pick up the pronunciation piece of 701 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 4: paper because I will make a noise and Holly's talking 702 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 4: and I'm not used to that kind of problem, and 703 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 4: this was like this like I got a sneeze and 704 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 4: I can't and I got my It was so it 705 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 4: wasn't even just reading it was just like daily living 706 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 4: in my body. That was difficult, very silent. 707 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 7: Yeah. 708 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 5: The director would occasionally come on and be like, there's 709 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 5: some weird noise I can't. 710 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 4: One time he's like, I think I heard somebody's stomach grumble. 711 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's me. 712 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 7: Yeah. 713 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 4: I didn't want to open my water because it might 714 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 4: actually cause noise. 715 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: Like yeah, I had at the time when we did 716 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: our audio book, I had a stress related vocal problem 717 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: called globis. It was horrible. I still struggle with it. 718 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: But it just makes you feel like there's something in 719 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: your throat all the time. 720 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: Are you clear? Do you clear your throat a lot? Clear? 721 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: It feels like like you're swallowing a lot. 722 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 2: You swallow a lot. 723 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 4: But yeah, it's this like speaking noise in this and 724 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 4: it's the worst, like the worst thing for the job 725 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 4: that we have. 726 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: I'd be interested if you have thoughts about this. Our 727 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: book was a tough one to read aloud because I 728 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: it was emotional and it was like a really rough 729 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: I was not anticipating I was going to have to 730 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: say this, and now I'm doing it. Because you work 731 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: in true crime and you've talked about how that's not 732 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: necessarily something that has super interested you in the past, 733 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: but like the historical aspect of being careful and all 734 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: of those aspects. But was it Is it difficult sometimes 735 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: when you're you're reading these things or writing these things. 736 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely. 737 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 4: I actually recall there was one story that you were reading, 738 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 4: Holly when we were in the audiobook room, where she 739 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 4: just and I knew that this was a story that 740 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 4: that uh, that that got her the first time we 741 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 4: read it, and Janet Horne and I know it's a 742 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 4: really difficult one for Holly, and I tried to be 743 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 4: like super quiet when she had to read it because 744 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 4: I knew she was like getting through it, you. 745 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 3: Know, paying it by a thread. I mean, it's like one. 746 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 5: It was not originally an episode of ours. It's one 747 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 5: that was just for the book, and it's about a 748 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 5: woman who was burned as a witch, but she almost 749 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 5: just had dementia and. 750 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 3: Her story just really I don't know what it is. 751 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,439 Speaker 5: It really hits me hard, even to the point where 752 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 5: when I made the drink for it and I was 753 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 5: The illustrations are actually they start with photographs, like I 754 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 5: take photographs of all the drinks. I staged them out 755 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 5: with props and then I put those those photographs into 756 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 5: photoshop and I do tracing around them and cross hatching 757 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 5: and like make them look like you know, the idea 758 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 5: was to borrow from the Jerry Thomas Cocktail book from 759 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 5: the eighteen sixties. That's all, you know, crosshatchy pen illustration 760 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 5: and even doing hers like all of the taking the 761 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 5: picture of her drink, I was like, kind of a mess. 762 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 5: All of the ingredients in it are about it's called apology, 763 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 5: and it's all the ingredients are about forgiveness and making 764 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 5: peace and apologizing. And I included kali lilies as part 765 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 5: of her photograph because those are also associated with the 766 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 5: idea of penitents. And I literally kept getting choked up 767 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 5: just taking the damn pictures of the cocktail and I 768 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 5: was like, we is gonna be a mess. And I 769 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 5: barely got through that. 770 00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: I know that story ended. 771 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 4: The ending image in her story is her being walked 772 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 4: to her execution point and there's a fire going because 773 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 4: they're going to burn her, and she just walks over 774 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 4: and starts warming herself by the fire, and that's. 775 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 2: The end of her story. And that how could it 776 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 2: not get you? 777 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 3: I mean, really, I literally have choked up just talking 778 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: about this. 779 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 780 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 7: No, no, no, don't be sorry. It's easy crier, so 781 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 7: it's not that long a walk. But she in particular 782 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 7: really hits my heart in a way that none of 783 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 7: the others have. I mean, many others have made me 784 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 7: cry at various times, but she's just like really hard 785 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 7: for me. 786 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: Her story is a very very emotional and difficult one. 787 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 2: I find sometimes when. 788 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 4: I'm doing research for various episodes that there will be 789 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 4: things that will come up that will either change my 790 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 4: change my mind about how the script is going to 791 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 4: be written, or sometimes change my mind on whether or 792 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 4: not that person or person's will even become an episode. 793 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 2: There are some. 794 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,879 Speaker 4: Things that I kind of hold back on when I'm 795 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 4: looking at our season schedule, and well, one we talked 796 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 4: about earlier we don't. 797 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 2: Do modern true crime. 798 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 4: But two, there's this there's a there's a children component 799 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 4: to it that I don't feel. 800 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: Comfortable talking about. 801 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 4: And in general, you won't find children come up in 802 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 4: our episodes unless they are not the main character. And 803 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 4: that in particular has become a really interesting problem in 804 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 4: Cold Cases season because a lot of cold cases tend 805 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 4: to I didn't know this before I started my research there, 806 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 4: but a lot of the cold cases that are historical 807 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 4: cold cases seem to be very heavy on young women 808 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 4: in their early twenties and and. 809 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 2: Kids. 810 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 4: And so there are some things I just find a 811 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 4: little bit taboo, a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit 812 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 4: just don't want to go down that path of this 813 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 4: particular podcast isn't for that. Those are hard stories, and 814 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 4: you know, I mean, sometimes you just come across some 815 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 4: really hard, you know, quotes that you know somebody said 816 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 4: when they testified, and you're like, oh, my gosh, do 817 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 4: I include this idiot in the script or do I not? 818 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 4: But sometimes it's actually the story takes a turn where 819 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 4: you think, to yourself, this is absolutely horrifying, and then 820 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 4: you have to decide what to do with that. 821 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 5: Those are the ones where are when we do them. 822 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 5: The cocktail often tends about tends to be about trying 823 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 5: to be an antidote for that. 824 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 2: Sitch exactly, and I love that. 825 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 7: One of our. 826 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 5: Recent seasons, so it's not in the book, one of 827 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 5: the women that we talked about in the Criminal Duos 828 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 5: season had a mother who treated her like trash, and 829 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 5: even so when she was eventually incarcerated. She wrote letters 830 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 5: to her mom that were so concerned about having hurt 831 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 5: her mother and having like embarrassed the family and stuff. 832 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 3: And so. 833 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 5: The drink we ended up making was kind of like 834 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 5: a you know, what if she had had the life 835 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 5: she should have had, because she was a very smart, curious, 836 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 5: interesting person who was very very chic in her mode 837 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 5: of dress, and like, if she had had the life 838 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 5: she should have had, she would have been amazing. And 839 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 5: I was like, what is the drink that she would 840 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 5: have had in her cosmopolitan lifestyle? Yes, that she really 841 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 5: really deserved to live, And that's the drink we ended 842 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 5: up making. 843 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 4: And instead she was married to Clyde Barrow's brother, you know, 844 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 4: like it got. 845 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 5: Completely involved in like stuff she had no business being. 846 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 4: No business and she even said, you know, she wrote 847 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 4: later on that she know, she know her role was 848 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 4: really like I would pay for the lodging and I. 849 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,280 Speaker 2: Would cook the food and do the clothing. 850 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 4: And she really wasn't she was part of the gang, 851 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 4: but she would she didn't. 852 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 2: Really, yeah, she wasn't. 853 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 5: But it was one of those cases where he was 854 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 5: the first person that ever treated her kindly and with 855 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 5: genuine love, and so it was like, well, you're a 856 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 5: criminal and you're involved in some shady stuff, but but 857 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 5: you're kind to me, and that's all. I've never had 858 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 5: that before, so I'll stick it out. 859 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 4: And he was really hers was really very sad. And 860 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 4: when we got to the you know, her time in prison, 861 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 4: because you know, one she she was part of this 862 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 4: gang where if you needed to pick one person who 863 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 4: was going to go to prison for everything that they 864 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 4: were doing, it probably shouldn't have been her. But but 865 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 4: but just her, Yeah, Holly. I mean, when Holly was 866 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 4: talking about her letters, it really reminded me that her 867 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 4: story is so separate from the story that she actually 868 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 4: was living. And sometimes you come up with these these 869 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 4: these dualities or these surprises in your research and you're like, oh, well, 870 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 4: we should talk about her because she's interesting and not 871 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 4: just because she wears really great pants, just. 872 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 3: Because she dresses like a starlet. 873 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 2: Right Man, nineteen thirty. 874 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,319 Speaker 1: I love this because I think it's so important when 875 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: you're talking about things like this that it's the compassion 876 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: and the curiosity is so clear and just like really 877 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,720 Speaker 1: wanting to get to know the people that you're talking about. 878 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,319 Speaker 1: I would love if we could briefly discuss I think 879 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: it's interesting that both of you kind of tried new 880 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: ish things for this, because Holly you had done like 881 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: you were familiar with cocktails, but you actually went to 882 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: bartending school, right. 883 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 3: I did, she did. Yeah, and they're so creative. 884 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: I love how much thought you put into like, yeah, 885 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: what do these ingredients mean? 886 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 3: And everything? 887 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I I've realized pretty quickly, like listen, 888 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 5: Holly drinks. I've had a lot of cocktails in my time, right, 889 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 5: I'm a pretty adventurous consumer, so there have been I 890 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 5: will try a lot of things that I've never had before, 891 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 5: and so I knew probably more than the average bear 892 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 5: about various cocktails. 893 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 3: But I really. 894 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,840 Speaker 5: Didn't have the foundational knowledge that was gonna carry me 895 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 5: through seasons and seasons. And I didn't even know we 896 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 5: would be here at season you know, fifteen, talking about 897 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 5: new things and being I don't know how many hundreds 898 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 5: of drinks in the mix. But I just realized, like, 899 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 5: I am gonna make messes if I don't get my 900 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 5: act together and really really get that you know, baseline 901 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 5: foundational knowledge under my belt. So that I mean, I 902 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 5: go into my canteena to experiment already having usually a 903 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 5: pretty solid idea in mind of what is what I'm making. 904 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 5: And that's because of that education, which was. 905 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 3: You know great. I highly recommend it for anybody. 906 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 5: It's a really fun, fun area of learning, and I 907 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 5: ended up with some really fun history knowledge from it 908 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 5: because the course that I took also talked about things like, hey, 909 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 5: here's why this rum is different from other RUMs, and 910 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 5: it's because there was a slave uprising on the island 911 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 5: where they originally processed this, and so you don't have 912 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,880 Speaker 5: it from molasses runoff anymore. It's from pure cane sugar. 913 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 5: And I was like, this is the course for me, 914 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 5: This is the correct one, And. 915 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 2: She'll come back from that and I'll be like, tell 916 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 2: me more. 917 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 5: You know, ended up researching to a lot of cocktail history, right, 918 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 5: Like I often, because we're telling historical stories, it's a 919 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 5: good fallback. It's like a really good safety net when 920 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 5: I especially when we're dealing with a story that is 921 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 5: sad or upsetting, to be able to be like, okay, 922 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,839 Speaker 5: but what drinks were popular at this time and how 923 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 5: can we tie that into this story. We just did 924 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 5: one like that that we recorded this week because it 925 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 5: was like a little tricky, and I was like, hey, 926 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 5: but what is I know, we're talking about a really 927 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 5: gruesome murder, but what was going on in cocktails then? 928 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 5: And ended up turning up the story of a woman 929 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 5: who was one of the few head bartenders at the 930 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 5: Savoy Hotel in London in nineteen twenty or in the 931 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 5: nineteen twenties, So like, she has her own interesting story 932 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 5: and we could tie that into the cocktail segment and 933 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 5: make it less about so almost beheaded. Oh yeah, that's 934 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 5: not an awesome place to start drinking, but we can 935 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 5: talk about what else was going on in this time period. 936 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,440 Speaker 4: This is what everyone was So this this particular episode 937 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 4: that we wrote was very media. Tabloids were real fresh 938 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 4: and so it was real tabloid story forward and they 939 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 4: were really pushing the story. 940 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 2: And the way that I went when Holly. 941 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 4: Came to talk about the cocktail and mocktail, the way 942 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 4: that I started thinking about it was this is what 943 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,759 Speaker 4: people were drinking when they were gossiping about what was 944 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,760 Speaker 4: going on with this particular trial, And that was actually 945 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 4: kind of a neat little way to think about. 946 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 2: Like everybody in the bar had this particular episode. 947 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 4: They're all talking about what Herst's newspaper was just you know, 948 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 4: just printed on its front page. 949 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Holly Afria. 950 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:30,920 Speaker 1: You were such a delight to talk to you. We 951 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,839 Speaker 1: should do a cocktail mocktail hour. 952 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,799 Speaker 2: We come back together any day. Sign of hats But 953 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,440 Speaker 2: where can the good listeners find you? 954 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,399 Speaker 3: In my bar? 955 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 5: Making is a safe bet? I gotta tell you. 956 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 4: So like. 957 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,799 Speaker 5: You could you know, listen to Criminalia anywhere you listen 958 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,840 Speaker 5: to your favorite shows. We opted to not do specific 959 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 5: Criminalia social media handle, so you could just hashtag Criminalia 960 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 5: and we will see it. And then the book Killer 961 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,760 Speaker 5: Cocktails is available anywhere you would buy books. 962 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,520 Speaker 1: And this has been such a delight. Obviously we could 963 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: have kept going, but listeners. In the meantime, if you 964 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,000 Speaker 1: would like to contact us, you can. You can email 965 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 1: us at Hello at stuff Onnever Told You dot com 966 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,799 Speaker 1: or stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You 967 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast, 968 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,879 Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff one Never Told 969 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,600 Speaker 1: You for us on YouTube. We have a tea public 970 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: store and we have book you can get wherever you 971 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer, 972 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,359 Speaker 1: Presenior Executive Producer Maya and. 973 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 3: Our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for. 974 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 1: Listening stuff on Never Told You Use Production by Heart Radio. 975 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: For more podcast on my Heart Radio, you can check 976 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: out the Art Radio Appple podcast or where you listen 977 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:56,279 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.