1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The Golden Age of 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: America begins right now. I will very simply put America first. 3 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to trump Andomics, the Bloomberg podcast that looks at 4 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: the economic world of Donald Trump, how he's already shaped 5 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 2: the global economy and what on earth is going to 6 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: happen next. I'm Stephanie Flanners, head of Government and Economics 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg, and this week we're recording Trump Andomics in 8 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: the Swiss Alps, in the Bloomberg DeVos House at the 9 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: World Economic Forum, And as we speak, we're looking at 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: pictures from Washington. We're recording on Monday, and the second 11 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: inauguration of Donald Trump is getting underway. So we did 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: I think it was fitting given the timing that in 13 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: this episode we asked the question, is Davos learning the 14 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: art of the deal? You know, not so long ago, 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: the billionaires, the heads of state, the tech moguls who 16 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: come here every January for the World Economic Forum, they 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: thought they were done with Donald Trump, and now they 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: seem to be pretty meekly falling into line. 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: I'm super fired up for the future. It's going to 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: be very exciting. 21 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: As the President said, We're going to have a golden age. 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm actually very optimistic this time. He seems to have 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot of energy around. 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 4: Reducing regulation, and if I can help him do that, 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 4: I'm going to help him. I mean, seeing Donald Trump 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 4: get get up after getting shot. 27 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: In the face and pump his fist in. 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 4: The air with the American flag, it's like hard to 29 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: not get kind of emotional about that spirit. 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: And I'm wondering what the implications are for everyone else 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: and for markets, for money, for investors, for the broader world. 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: And I've got a stellar cast here to discuss these issues, 33 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's editor in chief, John Micklethwaite, and I'm very glad 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: that you made it this year. You were human ill 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: last year and lots of us had to pretend to 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: be you, which didn't go well at all. We have 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: Jenny Leonard white House reporter who focuses on international economic 38 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: issues and has been the first to an awful lot 39 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: of trade stories and policies ever since she came to Bloomberg. 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: And Bradstone, who's now editor of Bloomberg business Week, but 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: before that was Senior Executive editor for Global Technology at 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News and the author of four books very relevant 43 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: to our discussions today, including Amazon Unbound, Jeff Bezos and 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: The Invention of a Global Empire Looking Around, and it 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: was written up rather nicely in an introductory story that 46 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News wrote, You'd have to say the movers and 47 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: shakers descending on the World Economic Forum here in Devils 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 2: this week have already been paying their dues to the 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: new president, realigning their priorities to better fit his somewhat 50 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: unreconstructed America First Agenda. We had a great quote from 51 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: Lloyd Blankvine, the former head of Goldman Sachs. He said 52 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: he was reminded of what happened when Napoleon escaped from Elba, 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: and the French newspapers changed their tune pretty dramatically in 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: eighteen fifteen. They started off, in fact, the Monitor started 55 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: off characterizing Napoleon as a monster, but by the time 56 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: he got close to Paris, they announced that his Majesty 57 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: was arriving. And it definitely has sort of felt a 58 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: bit like that, And of course Donald Trump himself would 59 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: love the comparison with Napoleon. So let me start with you, Brad, 60 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: because there has been so much focus on how Silicon 61 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: Valley has sort of turned on a dime with this 62 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: president and some of the key figures like Mark Zuckerberg 63 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: in particular. But maybe what's changed it is just they've 64 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: been able to show their true colors. 65 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: Everything has changed. 66 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 4: Let's go about eight years ago and all the CEOs 67 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 4: in to the White House looking like they had some 68 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 4: bad fish the night before, and there was Tim Cook 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 4: and Jeff Bezos and Cheryl Sandberg. 70 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: Zuckerberg didn't even go. 71 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 4: Elon didn't go, and then withdrew from the Presidential Council 72 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 4: a couple of weeks later when Trump withdrew from the 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 4: Paris Climate Accords, and so what happened? I mean, they 74 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 4: felt unjustly persecuted during the Biden years, either through the 75 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 4: anti trust agenda or the regulation of crypto, maybe a 76 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 4: little bit of the anti tech mood in the media. 77 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 4: And they have come out of the last four years 78 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: in some ways you know, maga and it's startling. 79 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 3: But look, credit Trump a little bit. 80 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 4: He opened the tent large enough to make room for 81 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 4: all the tech leaders and they see a kind of 82 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 4: common cause with Trump on crypto, on anti trust, on 83 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 4: Mark and Dreesen calls it raising the tech flag building 84 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: acquiring investing, and I think you know, there's optimism, but 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 4: there's also opportunity. 86 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: And they know that by closing up. 87 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 4: To Trump and contributing to the inauguration and being up there. 88 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: In the day is today, that that is good for business. 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you make the point though, that you know 90 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 2: they have shifted in the last eight years. It's not 91 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: just that they're sort of suddenly waking up to the 92 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: reality of a second Trump term. So how much were 93 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: you surprised by any of what's happened in the last time. 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely shocked, because you know, there did seem to be 95 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 4: a sense of legitimate resistance eight years ago. 96 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 3: But the world has changed. And Trump, as you know, 97 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: as I said, you know, to his credit, he's evolved. 98 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: Now there's not a lot of consistency. 99 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 4: I mean, he was the one who raised the idea 100 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 4: of banning TikTok and has just given it a reprieve. 101 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 4: He was anti crypto and just launched the Trump coin 102 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 4: and the Melennia coin to great enrichment of the family. 103 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 4: So he's seeing some of the political and frankly the 104 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 4: financial opportunities of being big Trump, being. 105 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 3: Big tech, big Trump. I think, well, that might be 106 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 3: even more appropriate. 107 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: Obviously financially, and that's a big part of all the 108 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: discussions around here. We have seen a lot of bedding 109 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: on and moving of money in line with the Trump agenda, 110 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: not just bitcoin, but price of oil, growth, stocks, the dollar. 111 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: They've all gone up there about eight percent. I was 112 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: looking at it this morning, since Donald Trump was elected, 113 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: and when I look at what the impact has already 114 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: been on countries like the UK, the big increase in 115 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: bond yield that's gone with this, you know, it feels 116 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: like already before he's done anything, any country with underlying weaknesses, 117 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: any government with underlying weaknesses, is having those exacerbated or 118 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 2: highlighted just by the fact of the Trump agenda, and 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: they're on the back foot. How would you say the 120 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: world has changed in particularly the sort of foreign policy 121 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: and financial markets. 122 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: What Brad said about tech is actually quite true of 123 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: business in general, and not just linked to Trump. I mean, 124 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: I think if you look around the world, compared with 125 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: say eight years ago, business people everywhere since both more 126 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: fear and more opportunity in their relations with government. The 127 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: idea when I first started coming to devoce that business 128 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: was this wonderful thing that existed outside the realms of government, 129 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: and it was all about kind of doing good and 130 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. Now business people realize that 131 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: you can both get clobbered by government, and that applies 132 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: from Trump, but it also applies to the European Union 133 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: and lots of other places. But also it's a chance 134 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: for enrichment, as you know, TikTok is suddenly discovering and 135 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: lots of other people that people in the Midwest now 136 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: will be thinking, well, maybe we can make money out 137 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: of tariffs if they come our way. There'll be people 138 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: you know around here thinking about different things that they 139 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: might be able together if Europe puts up bigger barriers 140 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: and so on. So there's both kind of fear and 141 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: greed are driving business and government together, I think generally. 142 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: But on this specific question you said, you can see 143 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: it everywhere. You know, Britain has suddenly got somewhat sort 144 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: of freaked out by a kind of semi Liz Trust moment. 145 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: You can argue how much of this is Rachel We've 146 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: spoilt also, you know, and how much of it is 147 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: just the simple fact that Trump has arrived and everything 148 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: has been thrown into greater kind of impact either good 149 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: or bad. And I think that's almost almost a way 150 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: to look at Trump at the moment. He's sort of 151 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: throw every weakness or every strength is somehow being massively exaggerated. 152 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: Trump is always about exaggerating. 153 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: And when it comes to the UK, I mean if 154 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: you look at actually the sort of gap in borrowing 155 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: costs between the UK and the US has barely moved, 156 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: and yet all of the pressure, none of the pressure 157 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: in the UK has all been on the chancellor for 158 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: reasons that sort of pre date that change. Well, I 159 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: want it in a little bit good defense. I'm just 160 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: looking at the spread on as you'd expect any Bloomberg imparted, 161 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: we will get onto some of these kind of broader 162 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: packs of basic things like the cost of money actually 163 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: going up along. 164 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: With all good news. 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: But Jenny, obviously a lot of the big news we've 166 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: seen have been trying to game out how serious Donald 167 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: Trump is on his agenda for tariffs, what it will 168 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: mean for different aspects of the global economy and different companies. So, 169 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: since you're usually the first to find out these things, 170 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: what's your sense so far? 171 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 5: Well, I would also say Washington has seen a big 172 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 5: shift since the last strund term on this. First of all, 173 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 5: they're all accepting the outcome that he's president again. But 174 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 5: we also see both parties coming together wanting to do 175 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 5: things together, which I think eight years ago we wouldn't 176 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 5: have imagined them talking about, oh, we need to actually 177 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 5: do something on the border, because that played into the 178 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 5: election outcome. Maybe Trump has a point here on trade, 179 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 5: on tariffs. They're talking about tariffs in a very different 180 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 5: way than eight years ago. The GOP that's in the 181 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 5: Congress right now, I think has many more Trump allies 182 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 5: than they did traditional free trade republicans eight years ago. 183 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 5: You know, we see TikTok is a massive shift from 184 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 5: a bipartisan, massively bipartisan legislation that passed saying this is 185 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 5: a national security threat, it has to be banned. All 186 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 5: of a sudden. Mike Walls, the incoming National Security Advisor, says, 187 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 5: this is a great app. I think I wish I 188 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 5: had it on my phone. That kind of shift is 189 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 5: what we're seeing right now. Doge is another example. This 190 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 5: is all things that we're seeing right now, and I 191 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 5: think when the rubber meets the road, we're going to 192 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 5: see if this actually sticks. I am a little bit 193 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 5: skeptical that everyone in the Republican Party will go along 194 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 5: with broad global tariffs hitting every country, every import. I 195 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 5: also think we've seen this from spending discussions in Washington. 196 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 5: When it comes to cutting your base in your district 197 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 5: or whatever project you care about, you know, they might 198 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 5: throw a fit. And I think that we'll see when 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 5: the rubber meets the road if they're actually that far 200 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 5: along in their shrift. 201 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: Well, we have had and you've been involved with some 202 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: of them. I mean, there have already been sort of 203 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: competing narratives coming out of the administration, precisely on tariffs, 204 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: because you have a sort of grown up view supposedly 205 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: that says, oh, they're going to be targeted. There was 206 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 2: a Washington Post story that talked about that, and then 207 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: quite a lot of pushback that seems to have come 208 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: from even from Donald Trump himself. 209 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 5: Yes, I will say we'll probably see a repeat of 210 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 5: what we saw eight years ago on the economic front 211 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 5: and the battle on the inside on tariffs. We have 212 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 5: two camps. Largely, even though Scott Besson and Hard Lutnik 213 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 5: I think are talking about tariffs now in a way 214 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 5: that are a little bit more in line with the 215 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 5: Hawks than Steven Mnuchan maybe did eight years ago as 216 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 5: his Treasury secretary. But we had reported that there is 217 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 5: an effort under way to stage the tariffs, to not 218 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 5: hit every country, every reimport with ten percent, twenty percent, 219 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 5: you name it, at one time, but kind of go gradually. 220 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 5: And the way it was described to us is this 221 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 5: is a negotiating play. We open this up, countries will 222 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 5: come to the table, we get something out of it, 223 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 5: but we don't cause massive inflation by hitting every good 224 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 5: with twenty percent. We report it this morning that he's 225 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 5: not going after China the way he promised on the 226 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 5: campaign trail. Of all the executive orders he will sign today, 227 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 5: there's not going to be anything on tariffs. There will 228 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 5: be no day on tariffs, even though everyone who's been 229 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 5: following his truth social posts, I think we're expecting China 230 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 5: tariffs for fentanyl, China tariffs for trade, Mexico Canada tariffs. 231 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 5: All that seems to have been put on pause for 232 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 5: we don't know how long. But that's the state of 233 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 5: play right now. And if you follow his public comments 234 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 5: but also privately, is what I'm told he has really 235 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 5: shifted on China to a much less adversarial tone. He 236 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 5: used to bring up in meetings with people his agrievances 237 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 5: about Beijing, and now we see he hopped on the phone. 238 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 5: He invited Chujingping to the inauguration. He's obviously not coming, 239 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 5: but sent his vice president. He tweeted about world peace 240 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 5: and he wants to save TikTok. And we also know 241 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: that nothing in Trump world really sticks for a very 242 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 5: long time. So this could all change tomorrow. If the 243 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 5: Hawks get in a room with the President and say, hey, 244 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 5: you know what, you really let down some of your 245 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 5: supporters who voted for you because you promised across the 246 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 5: world tariffs and you did nothing on day one, this 247 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 5: could sway him. 248 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: I mean what is funny is, of course, of all 249 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: the things in Trump's agenda on which both parties he 250 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: has united, it is an aggressive antipathy towards China. So 251 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: if that's the one thing that he steps back from 252 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: will be interesting. But I mean, sorry, Elon, they need 253 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: for the need for pay Brad, this is this all, Elon. 254 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: I mean, you have the you emphasize some of the 255 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: things that the tech well will be quite happy to 256 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: see the back of if they can like the competition 257 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: efforts to reign in tech. But both the control on 258 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: immigration and indeed the measures against China stood to damage 259 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: quite large parts of silicon value will certainly not be 260 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: particularly in their interests. Are they Are they betting that 261 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: Elon's going to be the Trump whisperer. 262 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 3: And I think we don't know. 263 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 4: And I think you've put your finger on what will 264 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 4: be probably the most significant divide within the Trump rule 265 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 4: and coalition, and that's the line of thought represented by 266 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 4: Elon and his group of tech CEOs who are now 267 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 4: in government or advising government. And then I guess traditional 268 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 4: maga Steve Bannon and the like. And we're already seeing 269 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 4: clashes on issues like deportation and a T one B visas, 270 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 4: and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. 271 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 4: But I mean, you know, if you go back eight 272 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 4: years ago, what we know about Trump is that he 273 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 4: is he is, he can be influenced, and he's quite transactional. 274 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: And so when you saw. 275 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 4: The parade of CEOs like Tim Cook to the White 276 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 4: House to carve out relief for companies like Apple, I 277 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 4: think I think it often comes down to who is 278 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 4: the loudest voice in his ear and who has he 279 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 4: talked to most recently. 280 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: So it's a big big tech will be fine. Potentially 281 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: big tech is betting they're fine. Small and medium sized 282 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: tech and other businesses, and probably, I. 283 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 4: Mean, it really depends, you know. He said at one 284 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 4: point that he thought Mark Zuckerberg should spend the rest 285 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 4: of his life in jail. And now zuck Is is 286 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 4: at the inauguration. 287 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: Today, will the attitude change? 288 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 4: You know, Elon's interests are in some ways quite opposed 289 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 4: to Marx, and so if Elon does have the loudest 290 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 4: voice in the room, maybe Mark's on a little bit 291 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 4: of trouble. 292 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: Joe mentioned it at the beginning. It is kind of 293 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: breathtaking the one eighty that corporate leaders seem to be 294 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: doing on ESG on a lot of their net zero goals. 295 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: We just saw the six largest US banks all quitting 296 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: the UN sponsored net zero alliance and McDonald's, Walmart. They're 297 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: rolling back all their DEI initiatives. Did they not mean 298 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: it ever? Or is this the thing that's performative? 299 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: It is incredible. I will I'm slightly crossed with Lloyd 300 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: blank Vine for using the monitor thing, which I've used 301 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: countless times, but I advise everyone in this room to 302 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: go look at it. It is the most incredible series of 303 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: headlines that begin with the cannibal as escape from his hideout, 304 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: he will never escape the mountains, and then it ends 305 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: with the Emperor has arrived in Fontaine Lower with I 306 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: think this is imperial match just in fourteen days. But 307 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: that is pretty much what has happened with Suddenly CEOs 308 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: have jumped almost a medling and you can see it 309 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: just in terms of the sort of things they talk about. 310 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: They are moving back from things. I mean a lot 311 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: that some of this is posturing. It's just in the 312 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: same way as some of the diversity stuff maybe was 313 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: posturing in one way. Now some of the retreat is 314 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: the same thing. They don't want to get called out 315 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: for not taking profits as seriously as their rivals, and 316 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: a lot of these things they can fiddle with just 317 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: by changing the language a bit. 318 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 2: But globally, is there going to be a divide though, 319 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: because I mean you've already seen it. We learned today 320 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: actually the mess is not taking away all of the 321 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: sort of moderating that it had outside of the US. 322 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: How a big company is going to navigate that? Oh, 323 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: I'm very green for the rest of the world, but 324 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: I've given up on all my climate things in the. 325 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: I don't know what Brad. Brad may have different views 326 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: on this, but I tend to think there are two 327 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: different sort of things going on. One is the stuff 328 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: to do with tech and this enormous increase in wealth, 329 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: And if you look at throughout the history of commerce, 330 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: there's always been times where industries shoot from being the 331 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: people who everyone wants to be, whether you're Rockefeller and 332 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: Morgan one hundred years ago, to suddenly being the malefactors 333 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: of great wealth. And notwithstanding the recent love in I 334 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: think there is a real push to get the tech companies, 335 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: which is most obvious in Europe because they're all American, 336 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: but I think is generally there and it's going to 337 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: have touch points. We've got a film coming out on 338 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: the number of children who died because they'd be pushed 339 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: towards suicide videos and things like that. There is a 340 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: lot of nasty stuff around the tech companies per se, 341 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: and that's one issue, and we'll see what happens on that, 342 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: and that's obviously slightly altered by Elon's presence. But the 343 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: other one, more generally is business. I think on the whole. 344 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: You know, most business people, there's quite a lot to 345 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: gain from Trump if he does deregulate. Two big things 346 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: they don't like is one the idea of immigration taking 347 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: taking away workers they would need. And as Jenny was saying, 348 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: on tariffs, and that will be the area. But I do, yes, 349 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: I do think there is a there are divides there 350 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: and there will be a big divide between Europe and America. 351 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: I think that's very difficult to avoid. 352 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: Have you seen, Jenny, have you seen sort of in 353 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: the in Washington and elsewhere, anyone kind of standing up 354 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: for DEI or well in climate I mean, there's a 355 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 2: lot of support in Congress for still continuing to come 356 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: up climate change. 357 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's only so much you can do when 358 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 5: you're in the minority in both houses, so everything they 359 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 5: say kind of goes into avoid. I don't see anything 360 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 5: coming together as an actual initiative, you know, legislation they 361 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 5: can't really pass without any Republicans, So it's sort of statements. 362 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, And can I just add, I mean, for at 363 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 4: least for tech CEOs, they have seen, they have watched 364 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 4: as both the legal and the political environment shifted. So 365 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 4: the Supreme Court struck down race based admissions at Harvard, 366 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: you know, in terms of the political environment, just what 367 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: seems to be like a full shift away from the 368 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 4: principles of DEI. For a long time, they were criticized 369 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 4: for creating a discriminatory environment. 370 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 3: They you know, did these. 371 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 4: Annual transparency reports around the makeup of their workforces and 372 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 4: essentially showed no progress and got clobbered year after year. 373 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 4: And so I do think there's a feeling of like 374 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 4: genuine relief that they can, with political safety kind of 375 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 4: retreat from some of these commitments. 376 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 3: And I think at least in the US, there's a 377 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 3: realization that the population is. 378 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 4: A lot more conservative than what was if you look 379 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 4: at poles surrounding like mass deportation. You know, generally it 380 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 4: feels like, and the election demonstrated it, that the country 381 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 4: is supporting some of. 382 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: These Trump ideals. 383 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 4: And so with that cover, the tech CEOs at least 384 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 4: feel they're on safe ground to retreat from some of 385 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 4: these things that always made them feel uncomfortable. 386 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: There had been a lot of hand ringing around the 387 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: development of AI and how the training of the large 388 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 2: language models and others on data was inherently biasing them 389 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: in favor of you know, stereotypes that came alongside the 390 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: DEI agenda, you know, concern about that. Do you think 391 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: that's going to stay or do will companies now feel 392 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 2: that I have to work about. 393 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 4: Well, Zuckerberg just promised a lot more masculine energy and 394 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 4: the Facebook, so I don't look, I mean, I think 395 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 4: we're going to still hear those critiques level at the 396 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 4: tech companies, and I don't know if in this environment 397 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 4: they will have as much traction as they once did. 398 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: So, Jenny, we have already talked implicitly about this, but 399 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: I'm interested in how it feels as a reporter on 400 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: the ground. There's always been a lot of corporate interests 401 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: behind the scenes, particularly in US politics and policy making, 402 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: but a lot of people have been sort of taken 403 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 2: aback by or found it jarring that just the very 404 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: explicit corporate interests literally sitting behind the president as he 405 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: gets inaugurated, the idea that policy is potentially being as 406 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 2: affected by Elon Musk and his interests as any kind 407 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 2: of broader ideological agendas. How does that affect the way 408 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 2: you're reporting and where the team's reporting. 409 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, what was very different this time 410 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 5: around was trum Ran his entire transition out of mar Lago, 411 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 5: which obviously there's no access for press, so it was 412 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 5: very hard to find out which CEOs he was dining with, 413 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 5: and that matters to the policymaking or jobs. You know, 414 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 5: everyone's there for a reason or an agenda, so that 415 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 5: was really different. It feels more explicit than it did 416 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 5: eight years ago because he came out of the gate 417 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 5: starting trade wars, and I remember talking to companies or 418 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 5: their lobbyists in DC and everyone was terrified to be 419 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 5: named in a tweet. So if you could just lay 420 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 5: low and deal with him behind the scenes, that was 421 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 5: sort of how big companies were approaching it last time around. 422 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 5: This time around, it seems like everyone is explicitly kissing 423 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 5: the rank. The story you mentioned also had the good 424 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 5: anecdote about the Coca Cola bottle in the end, they're 425 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 5: made a special inauguration edition. So everyone is out there 426 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 5: now on whatever truth, social X, any platform they can 427 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 5: say I am meeting with Trump, I am close to Trump. 428 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 5: That is much more explicit this time around. It obviously 429 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 5: will create I think instability in the way that every 430 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 5: single person that can go into the White House or 431 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 5: to mar A Lago to spend the weekend. There can't 432 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 5: shift policy on the fly, so it might be for 433 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 5: US reporters we might actually have a solid story but 434 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 5: are unaware that the president is having dinner in mar 435 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 5: A Lago with you name it and then completely shift 436 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 5: his policies. So I think the pace was already very 437 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 5: fast last time around, but the mar A Lago addition, 438 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 5: I think an access to this time around will be 439 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 5: could be more challenging and more interesting to figure out 440 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 5: how we well. 441 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: It's true that we'd had an economic statecraft team pretty 442 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: much since Trump got elected the first time, and this 443 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: time is very much or at least alongside that, we 444 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: also have the corporate statecraft team, and I guess we'll 445 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 2: see how they both do. I mean, John I said 446 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: at the start that in a sense, this was many 447 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: people on the outside of the US to say, well, 448 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 2: this is nothing new. There's always been a lot of 449 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 2: business interests involved in US policy, and there's plenty of 450 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: people I've spoken to international policy makers, particularly, I would say, 451 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 2: in what you might call the global South, who say, 452 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 2: thank goodness, we now have a nakedly transactional president. You know, 453 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 2: in America is on the world stage admitting that it's 454 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 2: totally self interested and it's just out for its own interest, 455 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: just like every other country, and it's not pretending to 456 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: have all these high ideals. You know, this is a 457 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: government I can do business with. 458 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: I think there is a degree of that, definitely, you 459 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: can feel it. The only thing is on that I 460 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: sort of be careful what you wish for, because in general, 461 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: that world of free trade and globalization which people like 462 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: me supported and which I think Donald Trump said I 463 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: was wrong about everything all my life, specially tariff, especially tarist, 464 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: but that was a world that enriched the poorer world, 465 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: and I think from that point of view, the global 466 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: South would be ill advised to celebrate this thing. I 467 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: can see why that if you are a copper magnate 468 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: in some place, this might sound great in the short term. 469 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: And yes, it is perhaps more honest than some of 470 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: the talk about talking about freedom and then coming in 471 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: to beat people up behind it. But I think you 472 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: have to be careful what you wish for. I did 473 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: listen to Jenny and a bit. It did strike me 474 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: that some of this stuff could reverse relatively quickly. On Trump, 475 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: you know, he does deeply believe in tariffs. I think 476 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: it's always been a been a constancy of his. So 477 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: at some point there is going to be an argument 478 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: with the tech people on Trump and Elon at some 479 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: point that could come apart, and more generally, I think 480 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: on things like DEI and greenery without signing too sort 481 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: of bled about it, there are other forces that will 482 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: keep pushing it forward. One is just the pressure from investors, 483 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: which I don't think will change that much in terms 484 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: of different categories. Secondly, it is on climate change. You 485 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: just have the fact that we have to deal with 486 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: the climate, and I think lots of people see that. 487 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: I think at the end, yes, you might see changes, 488 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: but I think I would still expect corporations will retreat 489 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: from some of the more publicly extreme versions of DEIS 490 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: you might put it. But I don't think that's going 491 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: to be. It's not going to go all the way 492 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: back to how it was in the nineteen fifties, where 493 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: a group of white men sat and decided everything. 494 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: And in short term, I think the biggest thing internationally 495 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: that people will be dealing with is the global financial 496 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: side effects of everyone betting on a sort of super 497 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: sore away America that potentially has unsustainable growth but certainly 498 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: inflicts higher costs of borrowing. 499 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: You already see the bond rate, the bomb market. I 500 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: think I've put a Trump in the bond market will 501 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: police you, and that seems to be what's happening. Seems 502 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: to be the one thing he's frightened of is if 503 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 1: the bomb market turns on you. That that's something that 504 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: people can see. And so far Trump has always focused 505 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: We had a very good bit and the last edition 506 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: of Trump andomics on this. Trump is always focused on 507 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: the stock market. If you're running a government to the end, 508 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: it's the bomb market, which probably matters more. 509 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: Jenny, I can't help mentioning we've sort of got you 510 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: mid Atlantic almost because although you're still technically in DC, 511 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: you will be moving to Berlin. And I've sort of 512 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: intrigued how you think reporting this story from Europe. I mean, 513 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 2: I've said you have to still be on the phone 514 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: to Washington a lot. You'll be kind of covering both sides. 515 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: But how do you think the Europeans will be dealing 516 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: with this agenda? 517 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 5: From my reporting right now, I would say they're not 518 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 5: as prepared as they should be. This is a little wonky, 519 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 5: but there is a big trade case that the Europeans 520 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 5: brought against China. You might remember China used economic version 521 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 5: against Lithuania. It was about them opening a Taiwan trade office. 522 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 5: This has been in the works the entire Biden administration, 523 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 5: with lots of support from the Biden administration, and they 524 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 5: are seems set to withdrawa case which we reported last 525 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 5: week was angering the Trump team because it reinforces their 526 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 5: belief that the Europeans are weak and they're not willing 527 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 5: to stand up to China, and Brussels is not willing 528 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 5: to defend one of its member states, and arguably a 529 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 5: smaller one. So I will be on the phone with 530 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 5: people in Washington. I think I will be on the 531 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 5: phone with people in different capitals and the people that 532 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 5: Trump sens there. 533 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: On this sort of transactionalism. I mean, if there's goment, 534 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 2: there are some governments around the world who think, okay, 535 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: this is quite a straightforward thing. We just have to 536 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: work out how to sell something to Trump, how could 537 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: make it be in his interest. Europeans maybe they're a 538 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: lot that they're not so good. 539 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: At being transactional. 540 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 5: They're a little bit slow compared to the Trump timeline, 541 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 5: So I think if something gels and Brussels, Trump has 542 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 5: moved on to a new demand. So the transactional nature 543 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 5: I think really works well with countries one on one. 544 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 5: I think Trump obviously seems really close to Jorgo Maloney, 545 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 5: so he will find an ally and her and Victor orban. 546 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 5: But once you actually have to respond as a body 547 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 5: in Brussels, I don't know how well that's going to 548 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 5: work with the transactional So I could foresee a bunch 549 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 5: of fights in Europe on how to respond. Do you 550 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 5: stand up to him if he threatens tariffs or can 551 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 5: you work out something else that's good for your country. 552 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: I mean John has been an orgy of sort of 553 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: talking Europe down, one could say, in response to the 554 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: to the Donald Trump's victory, and also what's happened in 555 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: financial markets, and just an enormous spotlight on whether it's 556 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 2: the lack of defense spending, just the lack of speed 557 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: and coming up to coming up with anything. Lack of 558 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 2: speed when it comes to the economy for sure, any. 559 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: Positive opportunities and there maybe if I was an investor, 560 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: I would be a lot richer than I am. But 561 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: there may be a kind of buying opportunity to the 562 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: extent that Europe is so written down, but it's on 563 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: the face of it, it's hard not to see all 564 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: these pessimistic things about Europe and not add more because 565 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: I think you look at it for exactly the reasons 566 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: Jenny said. They're going to have this question about whether 567 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: they deal within through the European Union, which they are 568 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: supposed to do on trade things. But you know he 569 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: will start the way he acts the where you talked 570 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: to him. He will immediately start ringing Macrol rather than 571 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: particularly going to Brussels. He's not going to pay much 572 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: attention to that. But to me, I went to a 573 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: meeting the other day where a group of bradslot came 574 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: across to see European politicians, and the message they basically 575 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: said is you have no idea about Trump, but you 576 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: are comparatively well informed about Trump compared with AI, because 577 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: you have no idea what AI is going to do 578 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: to the economy, you have no companies that are involved 579 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: in this, You have nothing that you can really show 580 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: the world in this. There isn't anything in continental Europe 581 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: that we even think about, and so I think that 582 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: is almost small friendly. I'm slightly setting bread up to 583 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: say how great Europe is. I certainly yeah. 584 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: My effort to get anything out of you, but it 585 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: was positive on your is completely failed. 586 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 4: I don't know. 587 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: I look hopefully towards Brad, but I'm not sure i'll 588 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 2: get a better answer. 589 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, Europe does have a couple of interesting 590 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 4: AI companies, including. 591 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: Which is great, but it is very, very small compared 592 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: with ending in America. 593 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 4: But it is interesting that a lot of the leaders 594 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 4: of these AI companies are predicting that will we will 595 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 4: achieve the next benchmark superintelligence or AGI in the next 596 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 4: four years and so that you know, monumental economic and 597 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: social change. And we can debate what it is will 598 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 4: happen on Trump's watch. 599 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: And does it matter in your world that money is 600 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: much more expensive because it's going to get the cost 601 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: of finances going up. 602 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 3: I don't know that it matters. 603 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 4: I think I think that's a that's an industry that is, 604 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 4: you know, focused on creating the next thing, and you know, 605 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 4: to them and we'll see if it's true and overly optimistic, 606 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 4: but they believe that, you know, Trump is making it 607 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 4: safe again for business. 608 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 2: So in a year's time. I mean hopefully no one 609 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 2: here will remember what you said, and you know things 610 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: it will just go on the internet. 611 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know no one will listen to it. 612 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: What do you think will be Brad, What do you first, 613 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: what do you think we'll be talking about? 614 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 4: Well, we'll be talking about Trump, right, because first role 615 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 4: of Trump is that you must always talk about Donald Trump. 616 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 4: I think in one year, this honeymoon period where he 617 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 4: has assembled a very broad coalition of supporters and partners. 618 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 3: And allies, I think that will end. 619 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 4: You know that that may not even last the next 620 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 4: few weeks or is as long as the first you know, 621 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 4: truly ambitious and. 622 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 3: Aggressive executive action. 623 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 4: I think you know, we've had the hottest year on 624 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,479 Speaker 4: record now for the past few years, so we we 625 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 4: will almost undoubtedly still be talking about climate change and 626 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 4: whether AI and the requirements data center usage or making 627 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 4: the problems worse rather than better. And then knock on wood, 628 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 4: last thing I think we might you know, be talking 629 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 4: about global conflict. I mean, in the short term, we're 630 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 4: seeing the sunsetting of the of the war in Gaza, 631 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 4: maybe some prospects for the war in Ukraine. But if 632 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 4: we're talking about a deglobalized world, where America is pulling 633 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 4: back as the world's policeman. Then you know, power uphoors 634 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 4: a vacuum, and I worry what the next four years 635 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 4: brings in that. 636 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: Regard, Jenny, that's taken a quite a lot of ground 637 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 2: for what we'll talk about nam certainly that's the classic, well. 638 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 5: All the all the hopefully not a virus. I think tariffs, 639 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 5: tariffs will be Trump's going to be tariff man again. 640 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 5: I think in the year's time we see him probably 641 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 5: shift on China or his global tariff. He's probably going 642 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 5: to do something with the Canada Mexico agreement, rip that up, 643 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 5: which that will cause a lot of instability. So yeah, 644 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 5: I think tariffs will be on everyone's mind. 645 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: Again. 646 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: Jenny doesn't always like me quoting her back on this, 647 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 2: but I am struck by your answer. And when You've 648 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: got one of your many scoops a few years ago, 649 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: and I said, quite early in Trump's term, and I've 650 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 2: complimented you, and you came back saying, never a dull 651 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 2: moment in national trade policy, which I had to reply, oh, 652 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 2: there really have been, but you came into it at 653 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 2: a very good time exactly, John, what will we be 654 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: talking about. 655 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: Well, basically, I think Jenny and Brad has said all 656 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: the main ones. I sort of agree with Jenny that 657 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: I think that the trade thing will come back in 658 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: because Trump cares about that. And I think also the 659 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: China thing will heat up again. It has to, because 660 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: I think it is the one thing where you can 661 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: unite America. You might be able to unite America and Europe, 662 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: and that by definition brings in both of those sides. 663 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: I think the main thing, and it's a very bad 664 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: cop out, is all the unexpected things. If you went 665 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: back a month ago, whoever thought that South Korea would 666 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: go crazy or that we'd all be looking at pictures 667 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: of Pacific palisades? And the element about being president and 668 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: Trump discovered it in the first Its first rain with 669 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: COVID is that you get surprised by things that come 670 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: at you from the other side of the world Greenland 671 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: Greenland exactly, or places you decide to invade just for 672 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: the hell of it. Those but it will be that 673 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And you add in on top of 674 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: it all the difficulties of Trump that Trump causes anyone 675 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: who tries to predict things. If you go to China, 676 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: and you meet some very bright people whose job it 677 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: is to try and explain what's happening in America to Xijingping. 678 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: I think for them, the first Trump presidency was a 679 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: complete nightmare because every morning they woke up to discover 680 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: these tweets landing on them with places that they had 681 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: never ever thought of. It's hard to imagine that Jijingping 682 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: was thinking about the Panamaketer Canal and Greenland just a 683 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: few weeks ago, but now someone in Beijing is having 684 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: to muster on that. The obvious answers, what do you think? 685 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: You've said it so well, John, and we've run out 686 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 2: of time. 687 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: It's such a shame. 688 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: But we have been at various times while we record this, 689 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 2: I should say that we've been watching footage from Washington, 690 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 2: the both the outgoing and the incoming president getting into 691 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: the motorcade and heading heading for the inauguration, people people 692 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 2: filing in, and you kind of get the sense that 693 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 2: people will be watching DC in various ways throughout this 694 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: World Economic Forum because his return casts such a shadow 695 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: or a spotlight on this, depending on what you think. 696 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 2: But thank you very much to all of you, to Brad, 697 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: to Jenny, to John and all of you in the 698 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 2: audience for joining us for this only second ever episode 699 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 2: of trump Andomics from Bloomberg. We hope all of you 700 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 2: here enjoyed it and those of you listening raped it 701 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: very highly and review it. It was hosted by me, 702 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: Stephanie Flanders, and I was joined by Bradstone, Jenny Leonard 703 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 2: and John Wikelthwaite. Thanks very much, Thank you.