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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, dig it out and here a podcast. I asked

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Speaker 3: the question what happens when the people who are trying

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Speaker 3: to help put things back together are also being exploited

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Speaker 3: in the process. I am your host, Mia Wong, and

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Speaker 3: today we are going to be talking about a union

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Speaker 3: that is attempting to do exactly that. And with me

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Speaker 3: to discuss this are Jess and Hazeus, who are mentors

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Speaker 3: for Friends of the Children PDX and members of the

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Speaker 3: Friends PDX union network. Yeah, Jess is Zeus. Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I'm really happy to talk to you both, because I

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Speaker 3: think this is a very very unique an interesting union

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Speaker 3: especially you know, talk about especially right now. But to

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Speaker 3: get people sort of rolling. Can you explain what Friends

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Speaker 3: with the Children is and what it is that you

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Speaker 3: two do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so Friends with the Children is it's a national organization.

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Speaker 5: It's a nonprofit, but they're there are individual chapters throughout

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Speaker 5: different cities. We work out of Portland, which is the

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Speaker 5: founding chapter and also the largest one. Some of the language,

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Speaker 5: I'll say that it's like used from the website and

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Speaker 5: from like the mission statement that really encompasses what our

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Speaker 5: role is and also how it is told to like

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Speaker 5: our community partnerships and the families and youth that we

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Speaker 5: work with. Is that we are committing to youth when

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Speaker 5: they are typically around kindergarten age level and they're being

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Speaker 5: paired with a mentor, and they will have a mentor

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Speaker 5: until they graduate the program, so that usually ends up

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Speaker 5: being a total of twelve and a half years. And

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Speaker 5: that like within that, we were doing a lot of

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Speaker 5: like individualized care and support. We work with them in

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Speaker 5: the schools, we work with them outside the schools, We

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Speaker 5: help them get into extracurriculars, We help them with like

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Speaker 5: social emotional regulation, developing relationships with other youth in the program,

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Speaker 5: and really just like being a consistently reliable human being,

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Speaker 5: and one of the big pillars of our organization is

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Speaker 5: the commitment to long term, which sometimes can be an

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Speaker 5: issue when you are facing a lot of high turnover

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Speaker 5: As an organization. We both have eight kids on our roster,

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Speaker 5: as do most mentors, and within that we have youth.

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Speaker 5: I personally have youth that have been assigned to me

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Speaker 5: that have just started in the program, meaning that they

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Speaker 5: were like maybe first grade when I was assigned to them.

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Speaker 5: And then I also have youth that are middle school

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Speaker 5: level that have had several different men tours in the past,

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Speaker 5: some that have stayed there for maybe a few years,

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Speaker 5: and like sometimes there's ones that have been there for months.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, if I can add to that. The kids we

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Speaker 6: work with, they're enrolled into the program because they have

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Speaker 6: some risk factors in their lives that would lead them

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Speaker 6: to needing a little bit of extra support and help.

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Speaker 6: So we work with a lot of kids that come

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Speaker 6: from immigrant families, from families that have you know, single

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Speaker 6: parent households, foster care families, and kids kids that like unfortunately,

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Speaker 6: are likely to face some challenges that our society and

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Speaker 6: the way it's built up will deal to them, and

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Speaker 6: our goal is to help them through those challenges, just

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Speaker 6: be there for them so that they have a chance

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Speaker 6: of you know, graduating high school or entering adulthood without

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Speaker 6: having you know, having had kids or facing like the

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Speaker 6: justice system. It's kids that we love dearly that we

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Speaker 6: work with in a similar way as like you know,

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Speaker 6: a program like Big Brothers Big Sisters. But we are

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Speaker 6: paid mentors, which is the big difference, right, We're not

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Speaker 6: volunteer based. We are employees basically social workers for all.

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Speaker 1: Of the families that we work with.

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Speaker 6: It's honestly, like it's a great job, and I think

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Speaker 6: right now, especially like super necessary because things are falling apart.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, just adding like one that made

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Speaker 5: me think of how within the work, Like I think

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Speaker 5: social work is a very apt choice of words because

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Speaker 5: we are paired with the youth and it doesn't like

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Speaker 5: stop there like we work like we work with the families.

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Speaker 5: We also work with like the siblings too, because sometimes

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Speaker 5: you'll have a youth that maybe is the only child

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Speaker 5: in that family that for whatever reason got a mentor

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Speaker 5: and then you support also I mean it's a choice,

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Speaker 5: but I would say that most mentors definitely opt into

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Speaker 5: being there for siblings and family members in the household

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Speaker 5: and making sure that they're also showing up for the

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Speaker 5: caregivers to help them create a loving home.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, you know, I think that you

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Speaker 3: can you can look at this and see how it's

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Speaker 3: supposed to work structurally, And you know, you were talking

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Speaker 3: about like, I mean, this is supposed to be a

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Speaker 3: like over a decade long commitment to these kids, right

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Speaker 3: that ideally you're working with the same person, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you're forming really deep emotional attachments because you can't not

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Speaker 3: do that if you're doing this kind of work. But

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Speaker 3: then also, you know, in order for that to work,

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Speaker 3: I think it's you know, you can see this the outside, like,

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Speaker 3: in order for this to work, this has to be

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Speaker 3: a job that you could stayably do for a decade, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which I will say we do and I

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Speaker 5: want to do. I want to give so many props

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Speaker 5: to one of our mentors who has stayed for twelve

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Speaker 5: years and has graduated their youth. But of of all

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Speaker 5: of our co workers, I believe it's only one that

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Speaker 5: has currently been able to do that and has stayed

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Speaker 5: there as long as I have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And the truth of the fact, like, yeah, a

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Speaker 6: for any job, twelve and a half years is a

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Speaker 6: really long time, right, I mean six years is a

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Speaker 6: really long time. And with this job, we're like we're

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Speaker 6: an emotional sponge for a lot of things. Right, So

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Speaker 6: our kids go through everything that you can imagine, and

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Speaker 6: and within that like everything good and everything bad that

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Speaker 6: you can imagine. And our job a lot of times

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Speaker 6: is like we can't solve the things that are affecting

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Speaker 6: these kids, but we can take in some of those

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Speaker 6: negative feelings and that grief, that anger. We can take

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Speaker 6: it in and almost like dissolve it a little bit, right,

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Speaker 6: But within that, like it can affect us so so much.

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Speaker 6: And that's where, Yeah, the sustainability part of like twelve

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Speaker 6: and a half years in this job, like that is

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Speaker 6: a lot, and you we need a lot for that

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Speaker 6: to like at all be be possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like that there's this way in which

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Speaker 3: you're effectively what this job is is like you're the

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Speaker 3: person who is trying to like mitigate the impact of

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Speaker 3: like all like literally all of the structural systems of

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Speaker 3: violence that exist in this entire country, and how like

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Speaker 3: how they're just sort of targeted down on these kids,

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Speaker 3: and your job is to like try to like protect

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Speaker 3: them as much as possible, and that's unbelievable amount of

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Speaker 3: like physical and emotional labor. And then also like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, it seems pretty bad that there's only been

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Speaker 3: one co worker who's been able to graduate their kids.

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Speaker 7: Like.

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Speaker 5: Just to clarify for history that's been in like our time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if like over.

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Speaker 5: The thirty years, I hope that other people have, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: in recent years it's only been the one. And also like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: this is a job where you are not necessarily able

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Speaker 5: to like undo the systems at play, but trying to

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Speaker 5: support them. And like we as mentors are inevitably also

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Speaker 5: facing those systems against ourselves. And like one of the

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Speaker 5: reasons that I think people gravitate towards this job is

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Speaker 5: their empathy because they have those shared experiences.

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Speaker 4: One of the.

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Speaker 5: Things that is kind of heavy in the culture of

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Speaker 5: friends is being asked your why when you start, like

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Speaker 5: why did you choose friends? And for a lot of people,

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Speaker 5: it is because of wanting to be the person that

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Speaker 5: they needed when they were going through those periods of time.

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Speaker 5: So there's bound to be like a lot of like

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Speaker 5: reactivation of feelings inside yourself that I think we all,

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Speaker 5: like I want to say, like every mentor I've worked

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Speaker 5: with does an incredible job of like handling that and

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Speaker 5: like taking good care of themselves. But it is definitely

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Speaker 5: something that like takes a lot of regulation, and I

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Speaker 5: think empathy is one of the greatest skills in this job.

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Speaker 5: But it also yeah, it also then leads to us

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Speaker 5: needing greater needs of self care and things like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I mean, I guess like to put

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Speaker 3: this in person active for like people listening to this

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Speaker 3: as like, Okay, your job is to be the person

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Speaker 3: like in the friend group who like manages like when

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Speaker 3: someone's like having an emotional crisis, like you have to

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Speaker 3: like help them deal with it, and that is your

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Speaker 3: job for like eight kids like the worst shit in

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Speaker 3: the world, like Jesus Christ's Oh good lord.

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Speaker 6: It's honestly, like like hearing this, it's always really helpful

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Speaker 6: to hear someone's outside perspective of our job, right because

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Speaker 6: we get so so into it, so into the munk

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Speaker 6: of like what this job can be. And I think

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Speaker 6: like overall, like like social work, it's not just like

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Speaker 6: our our job, but like I'm sure other social workers

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Speaker 6: and people in care industries, like we have that like

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Speaker 6: continuous like vicarious trauma that makes us forget like how

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Speaker 6: how our job is sometimes and then it's helpful to

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Speaker 6: hear other people mention it because it's like, yeah, wow,

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Speaker 6: our job is kind of crazy and and the work

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Speaker 6: we do is like really important and really important for society.

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Speaker 6: And also yeah, like it's hard. It's hard work.

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Speaker 5: It's it's hard, and it doesn't like really have an endpoint,

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Speaker 5: Like we have the hours we work with kids, and

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Speaker 5: then we have the hours we think about them and

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Speaker 5: the things going on in their lives.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes it's like sweet things.

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Speaker 5: Like a lot of times it's sweet things where I'll

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Speaker 5: see something and be like, oh my gosh, you know

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Speaker 5: who love that? And like things like that are like oh,

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Speaker 5: great idea, or oh, let's go see this movie. And

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Speaker 5: a lot of times it's like worrying though too, and

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Speaker 5: knowing that there is there is only so many things

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Speaker 5: we can control and some things we just have to

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Speaker 5: be the person that's there as they have to go

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Speaker 5: through something, which, yeah, it's it's hard because we also

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Speaker 5: obviously like develop such loving relationships with these kids. It's

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Speaker 5: hard to see like kids that you care about so

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Speaker 5: much that sometimes the most you can do is just

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Speaker 5: be there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It definitely is a job that, like to some degree,

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Speaker 5: is sort of always with you.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We have a joke about this with this job, where

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Speaker 3: it's likely I do what you love when you'll never

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Speaker 3: be free for a single second of your entire life

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Speaker 3: because you're just always awes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's so true.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, as you say this, I worked till like nine

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Speaker 6: thirty last night because I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 6: I'm enjoying this so much, hagging out with my guys,

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Speaker 6: so I'm just going to keep working.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, speaking speaking of keeping working, we need to

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Speaker 3: go to ads and then we will come back and

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Speaker 3: talk about the ways in which this job that requires

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Speaker 3: an incredible amount of structural support to keep people there

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Speaker 3: for like over a decade, is failing to do that.

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Speaker 3: And we are back. So Okay, now now that we've

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Speaker 3: sort of talked about what this is, let's talk about

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Speaker 3: the actual union.

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Speaker 4: It was just the thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so can you can you talk about sort

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Speaker 3: of how how did organizing for this union start and

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Speaker 3: what were the sort of issues that could have brought

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Speaker 3: everyone to be like, Okay, we need to do.

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Speaker 6: This, yeah, for sure. So we first brought about our

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Speaker 6: petition to unionize in March of twenty twenty three, so

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Speaker 6: that was two years ago, a long time ago, right,

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Speaker 6: But the work for a unionization, obviously, the organizing behind

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Speaker 6: it had started like much before that. When I first

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Speaker 6: joined Friends, it was in September of twenty two, and

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Speaker 6: I knew that the work had already been like happening

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Speaker 6: the summer before. What was the catalyst was post covid.

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Speaker 9: A.

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Speaker 6: Obviously a lot of people left, given what COVID did

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Speaker 6: to a lot of industries and especially care work. But

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Speaker 6: then likewise, a lot of people are fired and where

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Speaker 6: many would say like fired without like a full on

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Speaker 6: like due process, that included a program manager who you

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Speaker 6: know was really listening to friends and advocating for the

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Speaker 6: mentor role, and they were let go, which spurred a

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Speaker 6: lot of people to want to start organizing. Some of

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Speaker 6: the issues that we face, like the pay obviously, like

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Speaker 6: within social work in general and nonprofit work, like it's

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Speaker 6: never gonna match up and never gonna really be as

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Speaker 6: good as like the cost of living, especially here in Portland.

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Speaker 6: But the pay compared to like all of the emotional

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Speaker 6: work and all the work that we do was just

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Speaker 6: not there and not sustainable. It's why people were not

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Speaker 6: able to stick around because frankly, we were looking at

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Speaker 6: the same issues that our families were facing of, like

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Speaker 6: you know, food of insecurity and needing to like get

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Speaker 6: food stamps, or like needing like rental and like housing

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Speaker 6: assistants because our pay was just not up to par.

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Speaker 6: Those are a few of the issues. Jess, I don't

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Speaker 6: know if you have other thoughts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you touched on a lot of them.

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Speaker 5: I think it's hard to stay in this job if

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Speaker 5: you are looking to have a family. There's been issues yeat,

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Speaker 5: with pay, with insurance, with other sorts of things that

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Speaker 5: have led to mentors leaving rather than like staying there

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Speaker 5: even if they like really wanted to stay there, just

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Speaker 5: wouldn't necessarily allow for them to have maybe like the

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Speaker 5: life they wanted and also just honoring I think with

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Speaker 5: like bereavement leave and critical issue leave has been areas

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Speaker 5: that haven't really been addressed. We have had very tragic

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Speaker 5: things happen in the in our working community with the

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Speaker 5: families and that have drastically affected. Yeah, the well being

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Speaker 5: of mentors and staff members alike.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, you know, this is a job

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Speaker 3: that structurally is designed to be a kind of like

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Speaker 3: like again, if the goal is to have one person

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Speaker 3: from from like kindergarten to ntealthy like a graduating high school, right,

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Speaker 3: Like that is something that requires like nineteen fifties nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixties style forwardism, like you have one job for decades,

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Speaker 3: and the only way you can to that is if

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Speaker 3: people are incredibly well supported. And it's like the fact

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Speaker 3: that it's like, Okay, you're trying to do this, but

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Speaker 3: you're not paying people enough money to fucking afford food, Like.

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Speaker 10: What the hell, like Jesus Christ, Yeah, just like oh

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Speaker 10: my god, yeah, or even I mean it's still something

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Speaker 10: that we're fighting.

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Speaker 6: But like our our workplace like doesn't provide health insurance

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Speaker 6: for dependence, which I think, oh my god, really ironic

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Speaker 6: giving how much we care for kids, and then some

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Speaker 6: of our mentors and other coworkers that have kids, like

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Speaker 6: have to spend so much money on health insurance for

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Speaker 6: their own personal.

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Speaker 3: Kids friends of some of the kids apparently works.

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, And honestly, like big big picture thinking,

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Speaker 6: like the reason why we like started this whole unionizing

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Speaker 6: project was because we care so much about our kids, right,

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Speaker 6: Like I when I first started working at Friends, Like,

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Speaker 6: I think was the first MASK mentor to be hired

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Speaker 6: in a fairly long time, after a lot of firings

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Speaker 6: of other mass mentors and two of the youth that

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Speaker 6: but actually it's more than two of the youth. But

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Speaker 6: the first two youth that I was matched up with,

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Speaker 6: they hadn't had a mentor for over two years, jeez,

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Speaker 6: which is a really long time. Like when when you know,

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Speaker 6: are five six years old, and you're used to one

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Speaker 6: person consistently picking you up every single week and hanging

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Speaker 6: out with you and spending time with you for several

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Speaker 6: hours for six or seven years, and then just like

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Speaker 6: next day, next week, maybe even that same day, you

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Speaker 6: find out like, oh, you no longer have a mentor

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Speaker 6: and you're not going to have a mentor for two

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Speaker 6: more years because people keep leaving, People aren't wanting to

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Speaker 6: apply for this job because the pay isn't high enough.

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Speaker 6: Right That then like creates like a lot of issues

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Speaker 6: with the kids that we're dealing with. It's not like

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Speaker 6: we are these like saviors or like anything like along

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Speaker 6: those lines, right, But when someone has consistent support and

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Speaker 6: then that support is lost for a long time, especially

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Speaker 6: when you're a young kid where it's been the majority

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Speaker 6: of your life you've been having that consistant support. That

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Speaker 6: then creates like a lot of trust issues and like

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Speaker 6: overall like attachment issues that a youth could face. And

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Speaker 6: for me, that was the main thing. Like working with

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Speaker 6: these kids and having to like regain that trust was

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Speaker 6: something that's like still to this day is like really

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Speaker 6: emotionally like daunting. And I, like I will keep saying this.

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Speaker 6: I love my kids so much, like I like can't

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Speaker 6: stop thinking about them, and I want to be with

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Speaker 6: my kids until they graduate, which would mean me staying

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Speaker 6: at this job for another eight years, which it's a

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Speaker 6: long time, right, but I want to do that. So

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Speaker 6: I want to you know, get paid, have time off

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Speaker 6: when what of my sadly this is something that did

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Speaker 6: a curve where you've passed away that I worked with

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Speaker 6: and like didn't have time off to like really grieve that.

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Speaker 1: Hard stuff.

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Speaker 6: And I just want to be able to stay there

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Speaker 6: until they're done with the program.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like there's just it's just like a

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Speaker 3: litany of horrors where it's like one it's like, you

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Speaker 3: know what when there is like it's it's not you know,

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Speaker 3: like turnover in a normal job sucks, but this is

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Speaker 3: like when there's turnover because people can't afford to live

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Speaker 3: their lives. It's like you're just like ripping a hole

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Speaker 3: in these kids, like the fabric of their social lives.

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Speaker 3: And then also it's like, yeah, one of these kids

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Speaker 3: that is literally your job to care for dies, you

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Speaker 3: just have to fucking go to work the next day.

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Speaker 3: Like it is so hideous, and it's.

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Speaker 11: Just like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like it makes sense

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Speaker 11: that like, yeah, people are organizing because it's like, you know,

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Speaker 11: like this organization is just systemically failing both the people

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Speaker 11: that are trying to help and the people whose job it.

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Speaker 3: Is to like help them.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think one of the things that is like hardest

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Speaker 5: to see while like working there is the ways in

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Speaker 5: which this like job that you do, like that like

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Speaker 5: I care so much about and love doing, but like

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Speaker 5: seeing this like institution in a way be like part

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Speaker 5: be part of the problem because if we aren't like

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Speaker 5: having it so that employees feel supported in the way

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Speaker 5: that they need to, like, life happens. Sometimes people leave

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Speaker 5: and like move and get a different job for various reasons,

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Speaker 5: but a lot of the times it's it's because it's

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Speaker 5: not sustainable and it's really hard to leave, and like

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Speaker 5: it's a heartbreaking thing because I, like, I want to

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Speaker 5: graduate many of my youth and it is something that

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Speaker 5: I think about of like how feasible is that, Like

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Speaker 5: I want to do it, and like also, okay, then

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Speaker 5: that means I got to be frugal and all these

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Speaker 5: other ways are et cetera. And yeah, I'm working with

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Speaker 5: youth that have already kind of experienced loss and wanting

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Speaker 5: to continue to show up for them.

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Speaker 4: The job itself feels so.

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Speaker 5: Sacred and like I feel so lucky to be in

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Speaker 5: these kids' lives, and I think just a lot of

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Speaker 5: the turnover has been out of like lack of sustainability

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Speaker 5: for yourself, like for your well being.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And I mean the turnover numbers were pretty well.

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Speaker 6: I think one time we calculated it and mentors were

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Speaker 6: it was like a forty something percent turnover mentors. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: And a lot of that happened because in this two

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Speaker 6: year time period where we've been fighting for a construct,

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Speaker 6: they also froze wage increases, so I've had the same

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Speaker 6: the same wage for the past two years, about two

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Speaker 6: and a half years that I've been working here, you know,

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Speaker 6: and in that same time period, inflation has been prettigue

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Speaker 6: crazy and rent for me. Yeah yeah, which which you

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Speaker 6: know gladly. Now we're we have this fight and we're

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Speaker 6: at the two year mark and not at the zero

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Speaker 6: year mark and not looking forward to two more years

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Speaker 6: of doing this. But yeah, it's it's been hard to

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Speaker 6: sustain this when everything is increasing in price and our

399
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Speaker 6: wages are completely stagnant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let's take one more ad break and then

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Speaker 3: we will come back to talk about, Yeah, how how

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Speaker 3: unionization efforts are going, and yeah, we are back. Yeah,

404
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Speaker 3: so's let's talk about how this campaign is going. So

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Speaker 3: you said you've been in bargaining for like two years.

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Speaker 5: So we had our petition for recognition on March twenty third,

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, so that was over two years ago,

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Speaker 5: and then ours Yeah yeah, our employer didn't formally recognize us,

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Speaker 5: but through the process of like voting, we got over

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Speaker 5: ninety three percent of Wow.

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Speaker 3: That's an incredible that's incredible.

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Speaker 12: It's super great, and it's also like, wow, we all

413
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Speaker 12: really need it, Yeah, and like there were some other barriers,

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Speaker 12: including like not being formually recognized. Like we also had

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Speaker 12: management contest a few positions that I believe most, if

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Speaker 12: not all, we were able to successfully happy part of

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Speaker 12: our unit. And then we didn't have our first bargaining

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Speaker 12: session until September of twenty twenty three, so like almost

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Speaker 12: six months.

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Speaker 4: I think if I did the math right.

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Speaker 5: After we formally presented our letter for recognition, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and like throughout that process so now it has been

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Speaker 5: like Haesus is quite good at keeping track of it,

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Speaker 5: but I think as of today we're about at five

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Speaker 5: hundred and eighty days of bargaining.

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Speaker 3: God.

427
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Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, it's been a long one and it hasn't

428
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Speaker 5: been It's been like also a choppy journey where there

429
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 5: has been delays in scheduling, delays in just getting different

430
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Speaker 5: articles back in time. One of the biggest ones obviously

431
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Speaker 5: with compensation. And I think I can't quite remember the

432
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Speaker 5: period of time, but we presented it over a year ago,

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Speaker 5: I think maybe I could be wrong, and it took

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Speaker 5: like it took several several several months for us to

435
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 5: get anything back from management, which yeah, was a big bummer.

436
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Speaker 4: Amongst other things.

437
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Speaker 9: It sucks.

438
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Speaker 6: It sucks, and obviously that's the one that we have

439
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 6: yet to finalize, like as we're talking right now.

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Speaker 5: It is insurance and compensation are still our last two

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Speaker 5: articles left.

442
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, and some of the like the difficult things. I

443
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 6: mean when you are working on a project, I mean,

444
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 6: I wouldn't be surprised given like really when these conversations started,

445
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 6: if we're looking at like over nine hundred or one

446
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 6: thousand days of like really talking about this, but then

447
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 6: when you're dealing with bargaining for five hundred and eighty days, Like,

448
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 6: it's exhausting. It is so exhausting. We have regular meetings

449
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 6: that we attend to that our bargaining meetings were specifically

450
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 6: schedules outside of work hours, so that like the people

451
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 6: on our bargaining team and other union members would have

452
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 6: to put in that extra time outside of our forty

453
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 6: hour week. Yeah, and within that, Like the hardest part

454
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 6: is when you directly confront right your managers and your

455
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 6: bosses about like the rights and the things that you need.

456
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: So much of it like.

457
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 6: Boils down to respect right and your respect as like

458
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 6: a worker and the value that you have as a

459
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 6: worker in your organization, and when there is a pushback

460
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 6: on that, it honestly is like for me at times

461
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 6: was debilitating, right when you're doing this work and your

462
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 6: workplace is stretching things out for so long, Yeah, and

463
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 6: you're pouring your heart out on your kids, like really

464
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 6: trying to do the best that response from our you know,

465
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 6: our supervisors and managers, like it really was hard. What

466
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 6: was hard for me was hard for other union organizers

467
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 6: in our workplace, and it was hard for all of

468
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 6: our workers where we started thinking like dang, like what

469
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 6: is the value that we have like in this workplace,

470
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 6: What is the value that we intrinsically have in the

471
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 6: work that we're doing with our kids? It's a lot,

472
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 6: And it's a lot when you're facing all these systems

473
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 6: that our kids are facing and like taking those things

474
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 6: in and then are trying to change those systems. Finally

475
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 6: able to try to change those systems, and we learned

476
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 6: that like, oh wait, like the place that we're working

477
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 6: is actually part of these systems too, and it's doing

478
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 6: the same things that we're like fighting to have our

479
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 6: kids like have better lives. Like we're facing it right

480
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 6: now from inside the house.

481
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, I wanted to add into yeah, very much,

482
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 5: realizing that like our management is also in a way

483
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: operating you know, maybe like a corporation, which isn't the

484
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 5: hope you would have for a nonprofit. And one of

485
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 5: the steps we had to take as a union was

486
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 5: filing a UOP so unfair labor practice, which cited like

487
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 5: I had mentioned before, like delays and scheduling and also

488
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 5: regressive bargaining, which just means that like the way in

489
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 5: which they were presenting things would have lessened our like

490
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 5: quality of conditions. So definitely not what you want to

491
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 5: be getting, not what you want to be handed across

492
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 5: from the bargaining table.

493
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

494
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 6: Within this process, they were currently surly workers, but they

495
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 6: tried to change us to hourly workers.

496
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

497
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, which again like we're always working, you know, we're

498
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 12: always working, so unless you want to pay me for

499
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 12: twenty four.

500
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: Hours, you know, you're talking about like, yeah, that they're

501
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: behaving like a corporations, Like oh yeah, this is exactly

502
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: what like by employer did to me, which is like like, like,

503
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 3: what are the largest media companies in the world, And

504
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: they dragged out negotiations for two years and like you

505
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 3: know you're talking about this sort like just like oh,

506
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: they're like the feeling of disrespect where they're just not

507
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: getting stuff back to you. And it's like I remember,

508
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: you know, like we'd be sitting there for a bargaining

509
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: meeting and they wouldn't and they would be an hour late,

510
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: and they'd be an hour late because they hadn't like

511
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: bothered to beforehand spend time drafting out what their responses

512
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: were going to be, so they were frantically trying to

513
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 3: get it done before we were there, and we're all

514
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: just sitting there for literally an hour waiting for them

515
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: to show up. But it's like, Okay, there are people

516
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: in this unit whose job it is to stand next

517
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: to car bombs, like and you can't show up on

518
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: time to your to this, to this meeting that you

519
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: have know was going to happen for weeks. Like it's

520
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: just I say this every single lepany these episodes was like,

521
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: this is an incredibly common YouTube blisting tactic is draw

522
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: out the first contract, because that's that's like the second

523
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: point where unions fail after like the after after you

524
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: get like recognition votes is like here, yeah, for sure,

525
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: you know, like I mean I think there's something extent

526
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: we expect corporations do this, but it's like, Okay, this

527
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: is an NGO that's like the point of which you're

528
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: supposed to be like helping underprivileged, underprivileged youth. And then

529
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: they're like we're going to turn around and we're going

530
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: to screw over different underprivileged youth.

531
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it sucks, yeah.

532
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 6: And I think that's like for me, one of the

533
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 6: things that just like mess with my mind the most

534
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 6: is that, like we're not selling a product, right, We're

535
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 6: not trying to like get revenue or anything along those lines.

536
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 13: Right.

537
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 6: So, like our job is a job that we actually

538
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 6: like fully love and like want to stick around, like

539
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 6: not not just for our own like financial you know,

540
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 6: peace and our own like financial security. Like we want

541
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 6: to stick around this job because we care about the job.

542
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 6: And you know that's not to like like other you know,

543
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 6: businesses and other workplaces that unionize, a lot of times

544
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 6: people want to do that because they want financial security, right,

545
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 6: And I think for a lot of NGOs, nonprofits and

546
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 6: care work like, we unionize because we want to stick

547
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 6: around both because of financial security, right, but also because

548
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 6: we just like care so much about the work that

549
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 6: we're doing.

550
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: And to be faced with.

551
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 6: Actions by our workplace that you know, try to dissuade

552
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 6: us from that, try to like you know, in a sense,

553
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 6: like it felt like stopping us from wanting to stick

554
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 6: around like that again really hard, really hard, And I

555
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 6: think like a really like psychologically hard part that comes

556
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 6: with unionizing in the care work field in the like

557
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 6: nonprofit space.

558
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, this isn't a job that people are going

559
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 5: to take for the money, but we do need to

560
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: be receiving like equitable pay and benefits so that we

561
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 5: stay at this job like this by all means, and

562
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 5: like still like this is the same way I feel about.

563
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: It to this day.

564
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 5: I remember like reading the little like job description for

565
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 5: this role and was like, oh, this is dude, this

566
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 5: is like my dream job. This is like one hundred

567
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 5: percent what I want to spend my energy towards. Yeah,

568
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 5: and yeah, I think that's a huge part of why

569
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 5: we were able to get like that ninety three percent

570
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 5: and to have also like routine support for different actions

571
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 5: and stuff is just because we have people that care

572
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 5: so much about wanting to stick around.

573
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the thing that ngngos, you know, and

574
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: you see this in abortion work, you see this in like,

575
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 3: you see this in nursing, you see this in all

576
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: of these different fields. Like that's the thing that these

577
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: NGOs used to exploit people, is you know, like, is

578
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: the basic human empathy and love and care that we

579
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: have for the people who were caring for and they're

580
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 3: and these people are like, aha, look at this. Aha,

581
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: these people they care about the thing that they're doing.

582
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: We could underpay them and overwork them.

583
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 4: It's like, why is there system work like this?

584
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: Like it's just what a terrible way to decide an

585
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: economic system. Yeah, just good lord, Let's talk a little

586
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: bit about, like, you know, what kinds of organizing things

587
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: you all have been able to do, and the kinds

588
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: of things you've been able to accomplish by you know,

589
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: working together even in these really kind of like I

590
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: don't know, structurally difficult conditions.

591
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've had.

592
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 5: We've had a multitude of different actions over the past,

593
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 5: you know, over the past one.

594
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 4: Hundred and eighty days.

595
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 5: I think one of our one of our biggest ones

596
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 5: by far, which was I think also was just one

597
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 5: of our most beautiful in a way, was November of

598
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 5: last year, we did an info picket, and it was

599
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 5: one of those things too where it was very well

600
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 5: planned out, but also even with the best of planning,

601
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 5: midway through it, we had a shift location based off

602
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 5: of just changing information we were getting.

603
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 4: And we had one of our little bits.

604
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 5: It is because our union is called fun a lot

605
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 5: of our posters were SpongeBob themed, so instead of imagination,

606
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 5: you know, it's compensation.

607
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: And the rules.

608
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think it's indicative of, like also how

609
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 5: much people that work with us are playful and sweet

610
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 5: and why we're are good at our jobs of working

611
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: with kids.

612
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 4: And yeah, we had very high turnout.

613
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 5: I think we had forty something people within our own

614
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 5: organization that showed up for that. We've done smaller actions too,

615
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 5: by just asking for community support, like we've had caregivers

616
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 5: write letters of support to different people in management. We've

617
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 5: also done a few pack the rooms for bargeting sessions,

618
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 5: like especially when there have been times that have felt

619
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 5: like there's been some semblance of stalling.

620
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, those are just some of them. He stays, chime

621
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 4: in with others.

622
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, within that, and I think, like an interesting thing

623
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 6: about nonprofits, our revenue comes from donors, right, so we

624
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 6: have to play this like fun game of like, Okay,

625
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 6: how do we communicate with our donors, right, so that

626
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 6: we make sure that they know that, like you know,

627
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 6: this is part of like what they're donating too. But

628
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 6: then within that also, like you knows, ask for money

629
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 6: as well, right, because we do want you know, better

630
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 6: pay and better benefits.

631
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 14: Right.

632
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 6: So we've contacted donors and will still plan to do

633
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 6: that with both that ask of like support the union

634
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 6: and support our organization, right because the thing that we

635
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 6: care about the most is the work that we do

636
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 6: with our kids, and for that to happen, we want

637
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 6: our organization to like stay afloat truly, right, Yeah, some

638
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 6: of the wins that we've gotten. I mentioned earlier that

639
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 6: they were trying to have us be hourly workers, and

640
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 6: that was a big campaign that we like were fighting

641
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 6: back on for a long time. It's also like what

642
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 6: precipitated the ULP filing. I made too many buttons that

643
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 6: said you could never have peuty butons truly that said

644
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 6: I worked forty plus hours a week. Because one of

645
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 6: the people on the bargaining team for management at the

646
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 6: bargaining table asked if we even worked forty hours a

647
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 6: week while we were talking about this, and that's like

648
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 6: one of those instances that I mean like yeah, wow,

649
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 6: that's like a little disrespectful and like really bites. So

650
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 6: we all were wearing these pins regularly. We you know,

651
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 6: we signed a strike pledge where we had like eighty

652
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 6: something percent of the unit say that like if we

653
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 6: came to voting.

654
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: For a strike, people would strike.

655
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 6: And the big win was like, Okay, great, we get

656
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 6: to stay a salaried workers because they walk back on

657
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 6: that on that threat. We our time off. We have

658
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 6: a time off contract or agreement now that like some

659
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 6: of my co workers that have been around a long time,

660
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 6: once the contract gets ratified, they'll have like two more

661
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 6: weeks of time off.

662
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, hell yeah.

663
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 6: Because they haven't. They've been around for seven years and

664
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 6: they're still at the same amount of time off basically

665
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 6: that I'm at and that I've been at since the beginning. Yeah,

666
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 6: And when it comes to wages, like, well, we're still

667
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 6: figuring that out, but some of the gains that we

668
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 6: are potentially looking at is like incredible, Like I looked

669
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 6: at the numbers yesterday of like what hopefully given like

670
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 6: where we're at right now in the agreements like what

671
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 6: I would hopefully get and I straight up like tiered

672
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 6: up looking at the number because it felt like such

673
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 6: a big change in my financial status. Right, And yesterday,

674
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 6: like as I said, I worked on nine thirty PM

675
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 6: with my kids, probably because I had this like massive

676
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 6: like weight of you know, this financial doom that I'm

677
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 6: looking at somewhat lifted at the hope of the winds

678
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 6: that we might get from this contract. So it's been

679
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 6: incredibly hard, incredibly long, way too long, and all of

680
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 6: it is so it is going to be so worth it, right.

681
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 6: I hope that's something that the listeners really get that, like,

682
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 6: this is hard work, but in the end, like is

683
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 6: the change that we were hoping for, you know.

684
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, And recently, one of the things that we did

685
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 5: do just like a run through of just to kind

686
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 5: of boost morales since sparketing has gone on for so long,

687
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 5: was compile all the wins that we have so far

688
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 5: just through thas so still tensative, but yeah, did map

689
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 5: out a lot of huge things. One of the things

690
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 5: we do a lot on this job is drive and

691
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 5: we don't have many things in policy about.

692
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 4: Cleanings or repairs.

693
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 5: When something happens in your car, with the youth, like

694
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 5: say they throw up, it happens with kids, Like that

695
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 5: isn't necessarily something that would have been like covered. We

696
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 5: would have had to just pay for that cleaning ourselves.

697
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 5: And like coleage is a huge thing where one of

698
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 5: our potential like big wins is that we'll get like

699
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 5: full mileage covered rather than having to like deduct time

700
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 5: from like this illusion of having an office where we

701
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 5: would have to minus some mileage in whatever way made

702
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 5: sense with where our buildings were located. Despite even if

703
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 5: our kids were like totally somewhere else where we were

704
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 5: picking them up, it definitely wasn't like the most sensible

705
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 5: way for us to be like being fully.

706
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 4: Reimbursed for what we were doing.

707
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and those are all huge that we do have,

708
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 5: Like obviously compensation insurance are two of the biggest that

709
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 5: we're still working on. I think recently, like almost within

710
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 5: this week, we've started to tip in a way that

711
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 5: feels like we may be close to having a contract soon,

712
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 5: which I do want to say, like, you know, as

713
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 5: inspiration to everybody out there that.

714
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: Works for a nonprofit like.

715
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 5: Unionize and you know what you might it might farewell

716
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 5: for you. I have hope for everybody, and like, right now,

717
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 5: I think a lot of are, like a lot of

718
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 5: my coworkers are starting to have hope again because I

719
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 5: do think, like you said, it is totally a manipulation

720
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 5: tool to have it drawn out so long, And yeah,

721
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 5: it is exhausting to be basically stalled in your wage.

722
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 4: For two and a half years.

723
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 5: But we are like gaining some traction again, which I

724
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 5: do think is something that we're still being you know,

725
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 5: cautious with, just because right now it does feel like

726
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 5: management is working with that's a little bit more. But

727
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 5: I also think that there are reasonings around that, Like

728
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 5: we're about to have in a few weeks our biggest

729
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 5: fundraiser for our work, because like Caseue said, we are

730
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 5: majority donor based, and I do think there's an appeal

731
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 5: to management to have a contract by then.

732
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it adds to.

733
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 5: The whole We're doing good work and we treat our

734
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 5: employees well. I hope that that is something then that

735
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: is fulfilled by them in an honest way, not just

736
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 5: a superficial way, because we are still pushing for a

737
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 5: little bit more right now and have bargaining coming up

738
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 5: next week. So yeah, I'm really hoping that what they're

739
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 5: showing us isn't just performative, that we really might be

740
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: able to get to a point where there is something

741
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 5: that is truly good for us, because.

742
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: We're all ready we're all ready for a contract.

743
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, as you know someone, we've got our contract. Like

744
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't magically solve everything, but like, my god,

745
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 3: it should make your life better, like it is, it

746
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: is absolutely worth it. Yeah, okay, So how can people

747
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 3: support y'all both sort of locally here and then just

748
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 3: like broader because most people are not here.

749
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 5: Honestly, most of our like people in like management positions,

750
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 5: information is public. If you want to email them in support,

751
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 5: go for it. Also, just like encouraging either your workplace

752
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 5: if you work in kind of a social work setting,

753
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 5: or like you know, if you know people that are

754
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 5: because this whole field of work takes such a toll

755
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 5: on people and it is the most necessary work. And

756
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 5: I think it's really easy to fall into the mindset

757
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 5: of I'm doing this for the greater good, not you know,

758
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 5: not for money, not for these things, but like you

759
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 5: also deserve to feel okay and taken care of and

760
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 5: like have the things you need to be saying yeah, hey,

761
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 5: says anything else do you want to add?

762
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.

763
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 6: I would add that, like we have an Instagram right

764
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 6: as friends PDX Union Network.

765
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: It's a mouthful, but will link the inscription.

766
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, great.

767
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 6: And then within that, like if you're in Portland, like

768
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 6: make sure to like follow us and like pay attention

769
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 6: to what we're posting, because we you know, hopefully we

770
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 6: do not have to get to a point of striking,

771
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 6: especially at the place that we're at right now with

772
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 6: our contract, but in truth, like we're looking at five

773
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,959
Speaker 6: hundred and eighty days and that is quite a long time.

774
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 9: Yeah.

775
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 6: And then also like if if listeners do have the

776
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 6: ability to donate, if they could donate some funds for

777
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 6: Friends of the Children Portland and somehow in their notes

778
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 6: be like I support the union, Like I think that

779
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 6: could also be a really interesting way to show the

780
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 6: support that like our supporters have, like for both the

781
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 6: work that we're doing on the youth level, but then

782
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 6: also like in the union side of things too, there's

783
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 6: been a lot of like communication of like, oh, this

784
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 6: is really going to impact like the development side of

785
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 6: our organization and like all of the things that like

786
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 6: our fundraising team is going to have to do to

787
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 6: like meet thees, which again I think, yeah, that would

788
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 6: be more true if like our executive director wasn't making

789
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 6: like what like five times as much money as I

790
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 6: am Jeu Christ. Yeah, but yeah, showing that support, like

791
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 6: it doesn't have to be a lot, but showing our

792
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 6: bosses just how much like the populace like is supporting

793
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 6: our unionization efforts like that power do you really don't too?

794
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 6: And and then also like it impacts our kids, like

795
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 6: our kids, like that's the truth of it all, Like

796
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 6: I want my kids to have the best life that

797
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 6: they could possibly have, and sadly we live in a

798
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 6: world for money really dictates that.

799
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so those are will we will

800
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 3: we will, we will have links in the description to

801
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: all of that, And yeah, thank you to both so

802
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: much for coming on the show and hope I hope

803
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: you win, and yeah, I hope you get to go

804
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 3: back to caring for these kids and not and also

805
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: while not having to worry about like being able to

806
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 3: live your lives.

807
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

808
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for having us. Yeah,

809
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 5: of course, honestly, it's been great talking about the work

810
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 5: because it is it is really important work and I'm

811
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 5: happy we get to do it.

812
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's wonderful and yeah and so this is yeah,

813
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 3: this just bin I could happened here, and yeah, i'd

814
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: also go unionize your workplace. You can do it. I

815
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 3: guarantee it.

816
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 9: Hello, and welcome to the show. It's me James today

817
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 9: and I am joined by Garrison Davis. Hi, Garrison.

818
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 8: Hello.

819
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 4: Hello.

820
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 9: Garrison has just said some words about something that's happening

821
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 9: on social media that I don't understand, and it's made

822
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 9: me feel very old. That's what's happening today in my world.

823
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,959
Speaker 9: It's very sad we're gathered here today to talk about

824
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 9: the earthquake in me anma, right, I think most of

825
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 9: you will probably have been made aware of the earthquake.

826
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 9: It's somewhat odd that corporate media has really not reported

827
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 9: on the revolution in any substantial way since twenty twenty one,

828
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 9: but the earthquake apparently justified a lot of network sending

829
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 9: people to me Amma for the first time. Very amusingly,

830
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 9: people dming me on Blue Sky and Twitter are asking

831
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 9: how to get a visa from the Burmese Hunter, which

832
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 9: is not a thing I've ever done. The last communication

833
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 9: I had with them came in the form of a

834
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 9: car bomb that they said of near to a place

835
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 9: where we were. But if you're not aware, the earthquake

836
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 9: happened on the twenty eighth of March of this year,

837
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 9: just before one in the afternoon. It was the biggest

838
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 9: earthquake in Myanma. So it's nineteen twelve and it registered

839
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 9: seven point seven on the Richter scale, which is huge

840
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 9: because it's it's very hard for foreign journalists to get

841
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 9: a visa to enter Memba. The initial reporting focused on

842
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 9: Bangkok and the damage done in Thailand, but the epithet

843
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 9: was in Sagang, which is near Mandalay, Madelaide's second biggest

844
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 9: city in Memba, and that was where like the worst

845
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 9: of the destruction happened. Almost every street in Mandalai has

846
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 9: collapsed buildings. It's a little difficult for us to get

847
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,479
Speaker 9: a sense of the exact scale of the damage because

848
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 9: the Hunter refuses to allow Some media has been allowed

849
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 9: in the BBC. I saw like sneaked up in. It's

850
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 9: very difficult for media to move and report freely. And

851
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 9: in addition to this, the Hunter has continued to practice

852
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 9: of cutting off Internet for people in Memma, right.

853
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 8: Even during like emergency situations. Yes, yeah, especially during emergency.

854
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 9: They've kind it off like as a response to this

855
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 9: because I guess they perceive it to be something that

856
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 9: makes them look weak. This is a tendency that the

857
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 9: Hunter has displayed before. So in two thousand and eight,

858
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 9: cyclone Nagas affected Mema and killed over one hundred and

859
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 9: thirty thousand people, and they blocked international aid. They said

860
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 9: that people didn't need the quote chocolate bars that the

861
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 9: US and other countries were trying to deliver, and that

862
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 9: they could exist by like hunting frogs in ditches, was

863
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 9: their suggestion. I don't think people realize like how far

864
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 9: down the North Korea scale that the Burmese Hunter is,

865
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 9: but like they're very worried that any interaction with the

866
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 9: outside world, specifically with like I guess western neoliberal powers,

867
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 9: will be damaging for their like ability to control the population.

868
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 9: So for that reason, we don't know how many people

869
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 9: have died. Right from what I've heard on the ground,

870
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 9: the death toll is substantially higher than the three thy

871
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 9: six hundred number being reported. The US Geological Survey estimated

872
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 9: that an earthquake of that magnitude in that region would

873
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 9: kill between ten and one hundred thousand people. Obviously, that's

874
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 9: quite a big kind of delta there. What I can

875
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 9: tell you is that I've heard firsthand that there are

876
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 9: some parts of mandolines A going where the stench of

877
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 9: rotting bodies is so powerful that people have stopped returning

878
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 9: to their homes. There have been so many aftershocks that

879
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 9: people are still sleeping in the street because they're worried

880
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 9: about the damage structures falling down. The UN has an

881
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 9: estimate of seventeen million people of cross fifty seven townships.

882
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 9: Townships are like the administrative districts that are used in

883
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 9: miannber a bit affected, with over nine million people facing

884
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 9: severe hardship. And of course this is all compounded by

885
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 9: the fact that there were already twenty million people in

886
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 9: Miamma who needed humanitarian assistance, and they're about three and

887
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 9: a half million internally displaced people as a result of

888
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 9: the fighting that's happened after the revolution, So like, it

889
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 9: really came at a pretty difficult time in a place

890
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 9: where the government is not willing to They said after

891
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 9: the earth quake they wanted international aid, but they've as

892
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 9: we'll see later in this script. They've only accepted it

893
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 9: from certain countries. I spoke to a friend who has

894
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 9: family in Mandalay yesterday. He told me that the way

895
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 9: they're assessing the damage is using like open source intelligence.

896
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 9: They're trying to look in the backgrounds of people's videos

897
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 9: on Facebook to work out if their childhood homes fell down. Right,

898
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 9: they were using satellite imaging software when I spoke to

899
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 9: them yesterday to try and ascertaining of their families were okay,

900
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 9: they told me. Or Sagang has very famous pagodas, and

901
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 9: the pagodas are all on a hill. Apparently a lot

902
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 9: of those pagodas have fallen down, and even the hill

903
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 9: itself is like listing. So there's been like massive cultural

904
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 9: damage as well. Another way in which the damage was

905
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 9: compounded by Miamma's politics was the quake struck like I said,

906
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 9: at one pm on a Friday, right, which is Friday prayers.

907
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 9: This happened during Ramadan speciularly the day before it'll fitter,

908
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 9: which is a very busy day for mosques if you're

909
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 9: not aware, right, Successive governments of Meamma since the nineteen

910
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 9: sixties have refused to allow even basic maintenance for mosques.

911
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 9: That means that these buildings were in great states of disrepair. Right, Myanma,

912
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 9: there is an ulternationalist Buddhist movement which has been embraced

913
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 9: to a great degree by the Hunter, but also limited

914
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 9: even like the National League for Democracy, which was the

915
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 9: relatively neo liberal aligned party that had previously been in

916
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 9: power in Myanma or somewhat in power. I suppose alternationalist

917
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,479
Speaker 9: Buddhist monks like Ashin Wurathu and his nine six nine

918
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 9: movement have kind of condemned anythink that they did as

919
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 9: making the pro Muslim and they have this essentially they

920
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 9: have a great replacement theory, right that Muslims are trying

921
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 9: to come in through Bangladesh to replace Buddhists in Mianma.

922
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, lots of people here have this like very orientalist

923
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 8: perspective of like Buddhism TM as this like you know,

924
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 8: like like like peaceful blah blah blah blah blah, and

925
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 8: like no, like Buddhism, like every religion has a variety

926
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 8: of sex, yes, and the Buddhist national sex can be

927
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 8: particularly nasty.

928
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean as vicious as any other people. I'm

929
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 9: sure will be familiar with their Hindi genocide, and like

930
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 9: there are a lot of monks that supported that, including

931
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 9: where Rathu is the most notable one, but there are

932
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 9: plenty more, right, and they're part of the I mean

933
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 9: he's he's literally explicitly expressed like how much he looks

934
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 9: at to the English Defense League Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, Like

935
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 9: these are people who like they are part of this

936
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 9: global nativist movement. People's orientalism, I think sometimes stops them

937
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 9: seeing that or appreciating that this extends outside of like

938
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 9: white global North countries. Yeah. One thing that I did

939
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 9: think that that really touched me in the days after

940
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 9: the earthquake was young Buddhist Bamar people of the majority ethnicity,

941
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 9: reaching out to me and being like, hey man, this

942
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 9: happened in Friday prayers to Ramadan, and it has devastated

943
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 9: the Muslim population, Like thousands of people, hundreds of mosques

944
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 9: have gone, and thousands of people are trapped in a

945
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 9: rubble and like no one's talking about it. Why it is,

946
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 9: no we're talking about it. This is terrible and like

947
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 9: it would have been inconceivable to hear young Bama Buddhist

948
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 9: people so concerned with the well being of like their

949
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 9: Muslim countrymen. Before the coup in twenty twenty one, This

950
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 9: was a country that had been manufacturing consent for genocide

951
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 9: against it it's Muslim minorities for four or five years

952
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 9: by that point, right specifically on Facebook. That's a behind

953
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 9: the bath this episode on this you can also listen

954
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 9: if you're new to the show. Robert and I have

955
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 9: made two scripted series about the revolution in the Emma,

956
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 9: which will include in the show notes. But like that

957
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 9: change to a real genuine solidarity and care between these

958
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 9: two groups was really touching in the moments after the earthquake,

959
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 9: in the days after the earthquake. When we come back,

960
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 9: I want to talk a little bit more about the

961
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 9: revolution and I want to talk about how the revolution

962
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 9: has been responding to this and the impact it has

963
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 9: had on the revolution. We are back, and of course

964
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 9: the revolution hasn't stopped because of the earthquake, right The

965
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 9: conflict is still ongoing and the PDFs and their allied

966
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 9: ethnic business organizations are still fight against the Hunter. In fact,

967
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 9: within an hour of the earthquake, the Hunter began using

968
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 9: paramotors to drop bombs on Hangul village in Sugang. This

969
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 9: has been a thing that they've started to do recently.

970
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 9: In a sense, I guess it's a good sign because

971
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 9: it shows that maybe their jets and other aircraft are

972
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 9: in a poor state of repair, or that they're struggling

973
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 9: to keep enough of them airborne. Initially, I wondered if

974
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 9: they were using the paramotors because their runways have been damaged,

975
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 9: but there doesn't seem to be the case. They've been

976
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 9: air striking just as much as they ever did, which

977
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 9: is unfortunate. Satellite images or imports some my source on

978
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 9: the ground suggests that they're able to continue carrying out

979
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 9: bombing rates at a pretty similar rate from when they

980
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 9: did before. Despite this, the National Unity Government, which is

981
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 9: kind of the shadow government composed mostly of people who

982
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 9: are elected and then deposed by the coup in twenty

983
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 9: twenty one, and the PDF, who in theory are commanded

984
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 9: by the National Unity Government, called a two week ceasefire

985
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 9: right after the earthquake to allow for like a humanitarian pause.

986
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 9: The Three Brotherhood Alliance, which is an alliance of the

987
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 9: three most powerful ethnic resistance organizations in Myanmar, also called

988
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 9: what they called a humanitarian pause for a month in

989
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 9: both cases, they said they wouldn't undertake offensive operations, but

990
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 9: they would defend themselves, right because I think they had

991
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,959
Speaker 9: a CeNSE that the Hunter wasn't going to stop attacking them.

992
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 9: The Hunter did declare its own ceasfire on April third,

993
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 9: and the Kachin Independence Army, which is another ethnic residence organization,

994
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 9: followed shortly thereafter. Notably, that ceasefire from the Hunter came

995
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 9: the day after its troops fired on a Chinese Red

996
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 9: Cross convoy, which is not a great look for them.

997
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 8: No, never love to see that.

998
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, we don't love to see people firing on the

999
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 9: Red Cross. This is especially bad for the Hunter because

1000
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 9: China has been growing closer and closer to the Hunter

1001
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 9: and supporting it. China's had this weird back and forth

1002
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 9: relationship with the Revolution. At times, it's the Revolution, it

1003
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 9: seems like just supporting the me and my National Democratic

1004
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 9: Alliance Army, which is a group that broke off the

1005
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 9: Communist Party of Burma in the nineteen eighties.

1006
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:10,959
Speaker 8: That, yeah, that makes sense.

1007
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1008
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 9: There's also the United War State Army, which isn't part

1009
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 9: of the Revolution, which is that which has the strongest

1010
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 9: relationship with the PSC, and they're just chilling. They haven't

1011
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 9: really entered the conflict.

1012
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 8: It's called straight chillin, by the way, Jane.

1013
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 9: Straight chillin. Yeah, there you go. That's how you say. Yeah,

1014
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 9: I marked myself out yet again, straight chillin. The United

1015
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 9: War State Army, Thank you, Garrison. Actually, it spoke to

1016
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 9: some Cadridge from the Burmese Communist Party recently the Communist

1017
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 9: Party of Burma re entered after twenty twenty one, and

1018
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 9: like they're not focusing on like proselytizing the Maoist gospel

1019
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 9: to people. They're focusing on like fighting the Hunter and

1020
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 9: like developing alliances. And it's kind of it's interesting to

1021
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 9: see where that will go. Given Yeah, Marcus Leninism MAUSM

1022
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 9: is definitely not the majority ideology the revolution. Most people

1023
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 9: are committed to some form of federal democracy, which when

1024
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 9: you speak to different fighters varies from like we want

1025
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 9: what you guys have in the US to something more

1026
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 9: akin to the democratic confederalism that people might be familiar

1027
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 9: with in Rajaba. China is competing with Russia in me

1028
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 9: and mar so both of them are interested in supporting

1029
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 9: the Hunter right like, and obviously both their ideologies are

1030
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 9: far from liberatory that they're interested in propping up a

1031
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 9: totalitarian state. So we have seen both Russia and China

1032
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 9: send support to the Hunter, send like rescue teams after

1033
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 9: the earthquake. Meanwhile, the US offered two million dollars, which

1034
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,479
Speaker 9: I was kind of surprisedly offered.

1035
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 8: Anythink that is low key surprising considering Yeah, Mark Rubio.

1036
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 9: Right, yeah, well I think Rubio is more of a

1037
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 9: like a slightly Rubio is a neokhon.

1038
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, I guess like it makes sense Mark Rubio like

1039
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 8: five years ago. Yeah, it doesn't make sense like post

1040
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 8: like you say, to being gutted. They're like, oh, you're

1041
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 8: still doing that kind of stuff.

1042
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 9: Huh.

1043
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, there's like a weird like mix of things because

1044
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 8: because yes, like a traditional neocon style Rubio this this tract,

1045
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 8: but all of the movements that the Trump administration has

1046
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 8: been doing more recently, this seems like it seems like

1047
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 8: some kind of Dei Shenanigans if you ask.

1048
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, actually they added another seven million later nine million,

1049
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 9: which is yeah, it's not a lot of money compared

1050
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 9: to what we would normally expect. And at the same

1051
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 9: time they did it three USAID workers at least three

1052
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 9: I should say three. That I'm aware of were laid off,

1053
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 9: like literally they received emails telling them that they no

1054
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 9: longer had a job while they were on the ground

1055
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 9: assisting earthquake survivors.

1056
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 8: Department of Government efficiency strikes again.

1057
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 9: Highly efficient, will send you the money and then also

1058
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 9: put out our own people who I guess are supervising

1059
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 9: how the money has spent or would be. It definitely

1060
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 9: shows so like a strategic shift in the region China Russia.

1061
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 9: China is interested in memr because of its rare earth metals,

1062
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 9: because of jade, like China has triginally had a lot

1063
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 9: of jade trade with mian Ma, and then because it

1064
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 9: controls a large amount of seafront right, which which China

1065
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 9: wouldn't want to fall into like way it would see

1066
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 9: as like someone with adversarial interests. Russia is still interested

1067
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 9: in just kind of projecting itself as a global power,

1068
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 9: even as it continues to shrink of every day in

1069
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 9: terms of its global ability to project power. But there

1070
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 9: definitely are both Chinese and Russian assistants helping the Miamma hunter. Now, meanwhile,

1071
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 9: the US doesn't seem to give a shit what happens

1072
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 9: here now, like this is kind of not that the

1073
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 9: Biden administration was doing very much either, but at least

1074
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 9: we had USAID and USIP was very invested in MEMR

1075
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 9: and actually did a really good job of kind of

1076
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 9: almost like being the Foreign Affairs not branch, but they

1077
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 9: explained the revolution to the world like whenever a journalist

1078
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 9: wanted to understand the revolution in MEMMR, it was USIP.

1079
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 9: They went to. All the contents that have at USIB

1080
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 9: have now been doged, which is a shame. So despite

1081
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 9: the ceasefire, right I said, they fired on these Chinese troops,

1082
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 9: the Hunter has in fact not stop bombing earthquakes struck

1083
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 9: areas since the earthquake madele APDF, who I'm in contact

1084
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 9: with the other revolutionary forces in the area that was

1085
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 9: most affected by the earthquake on April seventh, told me

1086
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 9: that they're aware of ten strikes in their area of

1087
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 9: operations since the earthquake. Three months old baby and a

1088
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 9: ten year old child were killed in an air raid

1089
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 9: on Niicar village and Papun township that was in Corren

1090
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 9: State on April tenth. They bombed a school and something

1091
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 9: that the Hunter likes to do a lot that they

1092
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 9: dropped two five hundred pound bombs on a food court.

1093
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 9: They then circled back and dropped another bomb on the

1094
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 9: people responding to and giving aid to the people they'd

1095
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 9: initially bombed in the food court. By food court here,

1096
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 9: Just to clarify, I'm not talking about like at the

1097
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 9: shopping mall. I'm talking about like a market where people

1098
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 9: can buy like prepared food.

1099
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 14: Right.

1100
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 9: They've killed, at the best I can collate from various

1101
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 9: sources at least seventy two people and injured about one

1102
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 9: hundred people, in addition to thousands who died after the earthquake.

1103
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 9: There are also reports that Hunter quote unquote recruiters here

1104
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 9: are engaging in forced conscription in the disaster zone. I

1105
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 9: read of at least one person who was on a

1106
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 9: search and rescue team that they were a trained search

1107
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 9: and rescue volunteer. Right, So they were moving rebel to

1108
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 9: rescue people, and they were forcibly conscripted while they were

1109
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 9: doing that. Obviously, that's had a chilling effect on people

1110
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 9: going out to help others.

1111
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 15: Right.

1112
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 9: What the Hunter is not doing is rescuing its citizens.

1113
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 9: The military is detested in most of me Ima, even

1114
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 9: in the areas that it controls, and its failure to

1115
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 9: even try and track people rescued on the ubel won't

1116
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 9: help this. There was a video that went viral recently

1117
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 9: of Hunter troops literally a line of soldiers rescuing bricks.

1118
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 9: They've gone to a collapsed building and they're inspecting the

1119
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 9: bricks to see if the bricks a whole, and then

1120
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 9: passing them down the lines and stacking them up.

1121
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 8: Don't worry, the bricks are safe.

1122
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, the bricks are save the people are not. Which

1123
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 9: just like it was genuinely like infuriating to see it,

1124
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 9: And I can't imagine for people who have lost family

1125
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 9: members how that must feel. Even rescue workers, like I said,

1126
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 9: have been forcibly conscripted. Equality Mianma has noted more than

1127
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 9: one hundred cases to force conscriptions since the earthquake. So

1128
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 9: Meama has a conscription rule right, a law, so anyone

1129
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 9: men and now women between certain ages can be forcibly

1130
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 9: conscripted into the Hunter's army.

1131
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 8: So they're just finding people displaced from the earthquake and

1132
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 8: forcing them.

1133
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's people who have been hiding in their homes

1134
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 9: right who now don't have homes to hide it, Yeah,

1135
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 9: or people who came out in order to save their neighbors,

1136
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 9: and now now they're forcing them to be to fight

1137
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 9: for them, just as as they Hunted did with cyclone Nagis.

1138
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 9: They've also delayed and in cases blocked AID. A team

1139
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 9: came from France to assist in a search and rescue.

1140
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 9: They spent twenty four hours sitting in an airport waiting

1141
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 9: for their visa to be approved, and then they spent

1142
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 9: one day working in search and rescue efforts before being

1143
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 9: told that search and rescue efforts had now finished and

1144
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 9: they were to go home. So they traveled around the

1145
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 9: entire world, didn't save a single life abundance. It's great,

1146
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 9: presumably because the Hunter wanted to plicate China. A Taiwanese

1147
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 9: team was straight up refused entry into Mienmar, that Taiwan

1148
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 9: had a search and rescue team that they were willing

1149
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 9: to say send who could have saved people lives, and

1150
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 9: that they weren't allowed to enter. All tourist visas have

1151
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 9: been suspended, so it's not like the Hunter is like

1152
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 9: overwhelmed with visa applications, but they're not allowing search and

1153
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 9: rescue teams to enter from countries. I guess they're not

1154
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 9: politically aligned with this kind of horrific indifference to human

1155
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 9: suffering has characterized a toutmudor for decades, and it's really

1156
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 9: unlikely to change as it grows even more desperate and

1157
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 9: it loses even more territory. If just going to clamp

1158
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 9: down harder and harder on its people, be one. In

1159
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 9: the liberated areas, aid is being mobilized using the mutual

1160
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 9: aid structures which have existed for decades in the absence

1161
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 9: of the state. In significant and growing parts of Me

1162
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 9: and mar people are relying on each other instead of

1163
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 9: the government for aid, and that has its benefits. Right, Like,

1164
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 9: people have been out rescuing people from the rebel, but

1165
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 9: they're also desperately short of resources. I spoke to mandal

1166
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 9: APDF rescue team at the first week of April and

1167
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 9: they literally sent me a they have a notebook of

1168
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 9: a list of like we've run out of gorze, we've

1169
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 9: run out of twenty k's, we've run out of adhesive dressings,

1170
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 9: we've run out of elastic bandages. Right, they're like the

1171
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 9: little nuts and bolts of saving people's lives. They run

1172
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 9: out of We did a fund raising campaign for them

1173
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 9: through Behind the Bastards. We raised nearly two thousand dollars,

1174
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 9: which is great. So they're restocking their supplies, which is fantastic,

1175
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 9: But that's just one township. All across the country, people

1176
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 9: are struggling for the basic supplies that they need to

1177
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 9: save lives. The military has also blocked aid and medicine

1178
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 9: from entering their areas. Right, so the military controls a

1179
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 9: lot of road and it uses its control of those

1180
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 9: roadblocks to stop aid in medicine. Often it's kind of

1181
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 9: hoarding it. In the capital city, which is Napi Door.

1182
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 9: If people not familiar in Napi Door is a city

1183
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 9: that they couldn't have built for itself to go from.

1184
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 9: I mean seat of Kings. Also in napidor right now,

1185
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 9: it's the US Aid agency Samaritans Purse. Are you familiar

1186
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 9: with Samaritans perse Gratin? I don't think so.

1187
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 8: It sounds vaguely familiar, But all these humanitarian organizations all

1188
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 8: have like the same like four words that they shuffle

1189
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 8: around in different ways.

1190
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 9: So yeah, yeah, yeah. Samaritans Perse perhaps the most famous

1191
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 9: for being run by Franklin Graham.

1192
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 8: Okay, yes, idea what this is and who this is?

1193
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 4: Yes?

1194
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, having all their volunteers sign like a statement of

1195
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 9: faith and being extremely homophobic. For some reason, Samaritans Purse

1196
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 9: is establishing a field hospital in Napi door right now.

1197
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 4: They're going to.

1198
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 8: Force people to convert to Evangelical Christianity before they give services,

1199
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 8: like they do in some cases.

1200
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, or just leave them like they did in afghanis

1201
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 9: Don if they're not Christian. I cannot work out for

1202
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 9: the life of me what the fuck they're doing, because

1203
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 9: like the Hunter has made a consistent policy of bombing

1204
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 9: Christians in me Emma. Right in Karen and Kareni state,

1205
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 9: there are a lot of Christian people. On Christmas Day,

1206
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 9: the Hunter bombed people going to services because it knew

1207
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 9: that Christians would be going to services at churches. Right

1208
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 9: the Kareni Christians this year I saw celebrated Christmas in

1209
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 9: caves because they were so afraid of being bombed. Right, Like,

1210
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 9: I have no idea what logical leap you have to make,

1211
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 9: sar Yeah, it's and they're like, they're not even at

1212
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 9: the Insagang. The only people, the only international AID I'm

1213
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 9: aware of that was able to make it to Sigang

1214
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 9: was a Malaysian team who were able to save some lives. Unfortunately,

1215
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 9: there were really strong rains this week and that made

1216
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,879
Speaker 9: all the collapse structures even more unstable. And the Malaysian

1217
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 9: team I saw have now returned home. We're going to

1218
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 9: take another ad break here and when we come back,

1219
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 9: we will talk about what you can do t help.

1220
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 9: All right, and we're back first, I want to, I

1221
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 9: guess have some good news. Despite everything. The military has

1222
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,520
Speaker 9: still been taking massive losses. The all Burma students Democratic

1223
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 9: Front captured remaining Hunter positions in Indoor. They're all both.

1224
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 9: Democratic Front are a group that's been around since nineteen

1225
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 9: eighty eight, right, and they have armed up and re

1226
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 9: entered the revolution since twenty twenty one. One of the

1227
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 9: things that they captured on Monday was a underground Japanese

1228
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 9: field hospital from World War II, which I guess had

1229
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 9: been like entrench position. I guess they're not covered technically

1230
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 9: by the ceasefire, but there was a unit under the

1231
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 9: National Uniti government's command that operated with them, and from

1232
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 9: what I understand, this began as a defensive action. They'd

1233
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 9: surrounded the Hunter I think it's called yet japan Came Hill.

1234
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 9: They'd surrounded them on Japancave Hill for a long time,

1235
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 9: and then the Hunter obviously, seeing the earthquake and everything thereafter,

1236
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 9: decided that now was the time for them to break

1237
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 9: out of this circlement. They did not break out, They

1238
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 9: took a fat l and as a result, they've all

1239
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 9: been captured now. Meanwhile, in chin Land, if people haven't

1240
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 9: listened to the episode, I did a couple of weeks

1241
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 9: ago with a Zad from the Anti Fascist Internationalists Front.

1242
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 9: I was just going back and listening to that to

1243
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 9: understand chin Land. But the AIF and a lot of

1244
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 9: their allied forces from a Chinland Defense Force and a

1245
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 9: chin Brotherhood had a significant victory in capturing the rest

1246
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 9: of the Hunter's positions in Flam last week. And I

1247
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 9: think it's very much like on the table that we

1248
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 9: will see the whole of chin Land liberated in the

1249
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 9: next few months or by the end of the year,

1250
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 9: which would be great to see. So people are wondering,

1251
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 9: like what they can do to help, right, And I

1252
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 9: think it's a very valid question because I saw today

1253
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 9: that the un was meeting with the Hunter in and

1254
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 9: I just have no faith that any money that goes

1255
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 9: to the Hunter is going to get to people who

1256
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 9: need it.

1257
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, absolutely not. You cannot like they want them

1258
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 8: to die that like that. I don't know, they're like

1259
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 8: evil why.

1260
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, they are literally genocide or they have done

1261
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 9: a genocide like that has been prosecuted international Criminal court.

1262
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 9: Like I have no understanding why people continue to like

1263
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 9: international organizations continue to funnel money to them, other than

1264
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 9: because like they have a status quo bias. I guess,

1265
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 9: so don't be doing that. But there are groups who

1266
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 9: are making a really big difference. And one of them

1267
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 9: that I wanted to highlight, and Robert and I are

1268
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 9: very familiar with their work from the last time that

1269
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 9: we were over reporting is Community Partists International CPI are

1270
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 9: really cool because they work by empowering members of the

1271
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 9: local community to be health volunteers, as opposed to like

1272
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 9: dropping in some some like doctors from America or doctors

1273
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 9: from the United Kingdom or whatever, and then when those

1274
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,600
Speaker 9: people leave, they take their skills with them. CPI the

1275
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 9: thing is to educate folks within the community so that

1276
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 9: they can take care of one another. And I saw

1277
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 9: that CPI has a matching donations thing right now, which

1278
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 9: is pretty cool. So like if you donate, someone else

1279
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,639
Speaker 9: will match your donation and that will double the amount

1280
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 9: that you receive otherwise, I will provide a list of

1281
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 9: mutual aid funds that have been shared with me. Most

1282
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 9: of them are like gofundmes or things like that. I'll

1283
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 9: put it all in the show description. They've all been vetted,

1284
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 9: and like I know, people are sometimes reluctant to give

1285
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 9: to go fundmes and they'd rather give to like a

1286
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 9: five oh one C three or an organization which has

1287
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 9: a little bit more I guess, like online presence. In

1288
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 9: this case, you have to understand that like a lot

1289
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 9: of orgs just aren't operating in the liberated areas. The

1290
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 9: two that I'm aware of CPI and Free Burma Rangers.

1291
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 9: I spoke to Dave from Free Burma Ranges. They're trying

1292
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 9: to get to as many people as it can as well.

1293
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 9: That would be another great place to donate. And I

1294
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 9: would include a list of vetted gofundmes. If you want

1295
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 9: to have a look through those and see if any

1296
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 9: of them kind of speaks to you more, you can

1297
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 9: do that too. What this will mean for the future

1298
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 9: of Memma, we don't know yet. Right we have really

1299
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 9: no sense of how many people have died, of what

1300
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 9: it's done to the Hunter's ability to control those areas.

1301
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 9: But until the revolution has a way to stop planes

1302
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 9: bombing people, we will continue to see the same dynamic

1303
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 9: of the Hunter losing terrain on the ground, pulling back

1304
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:43,679
Speaker 9: its soldiers, and then bombing civilians in the areas.

1305
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 1: So it's lost.

1306
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 9: That is its game plan. It's continuing to get more

1307
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 9: drones from China. It's getting aircraft, munitions and jet fuel

1308
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 9: from China. Until there is an embargo on jet fuel

1309
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,560
Speaker 9: and munitions to the Hunter, then we will see this

1310
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 9: same pattern continue. Right, they lose terrain, they bomba school,

1311
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,759
Speaker 9: they lose terrain, they bomb a hospital. It's the same

1312
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 9: stuff that Israel's doing, and they've of course previously been

1313
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 9: armed by Israel as well, but we don't see as

1314
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 9: much solidarity for the people at Burma. If you want

1315
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 9: to stay in touch with what's happening on the ground,

1316
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 9: I think the Irawiti I Double r a Wa d

1317
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 9: d Y does a really good job of doing daily

1318
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 9: summaries right now. So I would suggest checking out what's

1319
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 9: happening there, and of course we'll keep you updated on

1320
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 9: developments in the Spring Revolution as they come.

1321
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 8: This is it could happen here. I am not going

1322
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 8: to El Salvador. It's not gonna happen, no way, No,

1323
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 8: thank you, mister President. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by

1324
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 8: James Stout.

1325
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 9: Hi, Garrison.

1326
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:15,080
Speaker 8: We're here to talk about possibly the most upsetting thing

1327
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,759
Speaker 8: I've seen in American politics in like the past six

1328
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 8: months to maybe even I don't know viscerally had hit

1329
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 8: me for like the past few years. Like yet what

1330
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 8: happened on Monday in the Oval Office was is kind

1331
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 8: of the most black pilt I've ever been, which is

1332
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 8: not a great way to start an episode.

1333
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, its like it made me feel like I found

1334
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 9: twenty twenty three very hard, like going out and seeing

1335
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 9: people freezing in the desert and then coming home and

1336
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 9: some by n the ice cream on the on the timeline,

1337
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 9: But like this was different. This was so like blatant.

1338
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 8: There's like a level of like intentional depravity that you're

1339
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 8: reminded of more and more blatantly.

1340
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 9: So and like Bouque's trolling of yes everyone.

1341
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,719
Speaker 8: So we're gonna be talking about an over office meeting

1342
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 8: between President Trump and El Salvador President Bukle.

1343
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 9: I guess I could learn his first name, Naib there

1344
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 9: you go. You know he's Palestinian salvadorre Are you fucking serious? No,

1345
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:14,879
Speaker 9: that's an emam.

1346
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 8: I don't even have time for that.

1347
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 9: It's just fucking I'm sorry. If anyone's driving it has

1348
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 9: had an accident upon hearing that.

1349
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 8: So, as you probably know, recently, the United States government

1350
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 8: has sent upwards of three hundred people immigrants to the

1351
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 8: L Salvador Terrorism Confinement Center. This prison black site that

1352
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 8: people never return from. I guess I could point to

1353
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 8: for a pop culture reference, which feels a little bit

1354
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 8: in bad taste, but you can point to like the

1355
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 8: prison in the TV show and Or as being a

1356
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 8: very comparable facility, frankly, except they turn off the lights

1357
01:16:57,800 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 8: in and Or they do not turn off the lights

1358
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 8: in Seacott lights around all the time. They put ten

1359
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 8: to twenty people per sell. It's pretty bad. Jameson has

1360
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 8: done episodes on Seacott in the past, will probably keep

1361
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 8: doing more.

1362
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 9: The lights thing, by the way, was a specific policy

1363
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 9: change by Bouquele. There was a particularly violent weekend in

1364
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 9: El Salvador, and as a result he stopped letting people

1365
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,679
Speaker 9: who were detained for gang crimes go outside and stopped

1366
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 9: building windows into the prison and just put the lights

1367
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 9: on because a way of punishing I guess the gangs

1368
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 9: by punishing the people who are detained there.

1369
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 8: Yeah, they can't go outside. They stay in their cell

1370
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 8: for almost twenty four hours a day. They might occasionally

1371
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,719
Speaker 8: get thirty minutes outside, but that's not even confirmed because

1372
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 8: no one's even allowed inside to see what's going on

1373
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 8: in there. And we've sent upwards of three hundred immigrants there,

1374
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 8: the majority, vast majority of which have no criminal record.

1375
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 8: Even if you do have a criminal record, being renditioned

1376
01:17:55,240 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 8: to a foreign prison camp is still bad. But this

1377
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 8: is something that Trump hopes to expand on greatly, and

1378
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 8: they are currently defending their ability to do so in

1379
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 8: the court since it has been learned that a few

1380
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,720
Speaker 8: people sent there may have been partially sent by accident.

1381
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,719
Speaker 8: But the Trump administration is refusing to return these people

1382
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 8: and is instead still trying to convince the public that

1383
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 8: these are dangerous terrorists that deserve to be disappeared. So

1384
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 8: let's kind of start with that main case. The case

1385
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 8: that's receiving the most public attention right now is of

1386
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,799
Speaker 8: a Maryland man named Kilmayor Abrego Garcia, who's the subject

1387
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 8: of a district court case that has been sent up

1388
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 8: to the Supreme Court and then sent back to the

1389
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 8: district court on whether this man can be returned home

1390
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 8: to his US citizen wife and child. And then on Monday,

1391
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 8: April fourteenth, in the Oval Office meeting, President Bouquela said

1392
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 8: that he will not return this Maryland immigrant with protected

1393
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 8: legal status back to the United States, who Ice admits

1394
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 8: was sent to Seacot based on a quote unquote administrative

1395
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 8: Errorka said, quote, how can I smuggle a terrorist into

1396
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 8: the United States? Of course I'm not going to do it.

1397
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:15,719
Speaker 8: The question is preposterous unquote. The Al Salvador president also

1398
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 8: balked at the idea of releasing Garcia from Seacott since

1399
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,679
Speaker 8: he can't have a quote unquote terrorist free in his country,

1400
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 8: lying about Garcia being a criminal. I am going to

1401
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 8: play a few clips in this episode because I think

1402
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 8: it is necessary to listen to these people actually say

1403
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 8: the words that they are saying, in the tone that

1404
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 8: they're saying them, and the exact phrasing on these I

1405
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 8: think is actually pretty important right now. So, unfortunately, you

1406
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:42,639
Speaker 8: are gonna have to hear the voices of a few

1407
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 8: people who you might not rather hear from, including the

1408
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 8: president of El Salvador. So I'll play this first.

1409
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 5: Clip President and President Bukayla Waiyan on this Do you

1410
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 5: plan to return him?

1411
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: Well, I get I'm suppose are suggested that a smuggle

1412
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:01,919
Speaker 1: and terroristic today United States? Right, how can I smuggle?

1413
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 8: How can I return him to the latter It's like

1414
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,519
Speaker 8: I smuggle him into the United States or whether we do,

1415
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 8: of course, I'm not going to do it.

1416
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, the question is preposterous.

1417
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 16: How can I smuggle the terrorists to the United States.

1418
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 8: I don't have the power to return him to the

1419
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,520
Speaker 8: United States inside.

1420
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 17: Yeah, but I'm not releasing I mean, we're not very

1421
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 17: fond of releasing terrorists into our country.

1422
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 18: We just turned the murder capital of the world to

1423
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 18: the safest country of the Western.

1424
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 14: Hemisphere, and he want us to go back into the

1425
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:31,560
Speaker 14: releasing criminals so we can go back to being the

1426
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:32,639
Speaker 14: murder capital of the world.

1427
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 1: And that's that's not going to happen.

1428
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 14: Well, they'd love to have a criminal, you know, with

1429
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 14: the schedule.

1430
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,520
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean there's there's a fascinator.

1431
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, the sick piece are sick people.

1432
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 9: It's just insane. Like the whole pretense of any any

1433
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 9: like serious engagement with reality there, it's just gone yeah.

1434
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 8: And they're both like miming that neither of them have

1435
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 8: the ability to make any kind of deal between each

1436
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 8: other to send people back, even though they have the

1437
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 8: ability to make a deal to send people there.

1438
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, As they sit in the same room.

1439
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 8: The whole time Bekayley's talking, Trump has like this like

1440
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 8: a growing smirk on his face. As Bkayley's talking about

1441
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 8: this preposterous notion of smuggling a US immigrant back into

1442
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 8: the United States despite the Supreme Court order to facilitate

1443
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 8: the return of this immigrant back into the country. The

1444
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 8: whole smuggling framing is obviously absurd, with him saying like,

1445
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 8: I don't have the power to return him to the

1446
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 8: United States. All he needs to do is release him

1447
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 8: from SECAT and the US can fly him back right

1448
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 8: just as we flew him to l Salvador. Like the

1449
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 8: two heads of state are sitting right next to each other.

1450
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 8: They could agree to do this at any time, But

1451
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 8: now everyone's pretending that that suddenly they don't have the

1452
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 8: power to undo what they seemingly had the power to

1453
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 8: do in the first place.

1454
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 9: Like Bukeley has ruled, and we're going to do a

1455
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 9: whole episode of and like his rise to power and

1456
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 9: then his use of power. But like he's ruled, and

1457
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 9: there a state of exception for years in Elsabador which

1458
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 9: allows them to detain people without warrants, without trials, right,

1459
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 9: and like it's that state of exception that is now

1460
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 9: the norm there. And that's kind of what he seems

1461
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 9: to be referring to, right, Like like we just get

1462
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 9: to lock people up. Why would I not do that?

1463
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 8: In effect, they are arguing that every single human being

1464
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 8: that is sent to Seacot by the United States is

1465
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 8: unable to ever leave the prison alive. Yeah, Like that's

1466
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 8: basically what they're saying, because they're saying both both parties,

1467
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 8: both Trump and Bouquela, are unable to have someone who's

1468
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 8: been sent there returned. So they're just they're just saying

1469
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 8: like no one's able to do anything, Like they're just

1470
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 8: stuck there until they die, and like this is part

1471
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 8: of the design of Seacot. Uh, the person who runs,

1472
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 8: Like the Seacott Like security has said that they do

1473
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,919
Speaker 8: not intend in any person ever being released from Seacott.

1474
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,840
Speaker 8: You are not designed to get out. You are stuck

1475
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 8: there forever. No one's ever left there. Yeah, it's just

1476
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 8: where you get disappeared, and that's that's all. That's all

1477
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,679
Speaker 8: that it is. And I think part of why they're

1478
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 8: so unwilling to send Garcia back is because then you

1479
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 8: have someone like the first person who's ever gotten out

1480
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 8: and can talk about what it's actually like in there,

1481
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 8: when you don't have like Christinome and like propaganda cameras

1482
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 8: pointed at at the prison bars.

1483
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, Bukela is very redicentially to anyone for that reason,

1484
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 9: And like there are plenty of valigations and like I

1485
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 9: think looks like Time Magazine has publicist is not husually

1486
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 9: controversial that he made deals with gangs in the past

1487
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 9: in elsabul or right to get them to reduce the

1488
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 9: murder rate, and like he certainly wouldn't like to hear

1489
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 9: that testified to certainly not in the United States court, right, So,

1490
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 9: like he doesn't want people to be released from there either,

1491
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,759
Speaker 9: Like you said, they don't want anyone to be able

1492
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,759
Speaker 9: to go to any international human rights courts and testify

1493
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 9: as to what happened to them there. So it's kind

1494
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 9: of in his interest to never have anyone be released.

1495
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 9: It's not just also, I guess like in his interest,

1496
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 9: he's also being paid right twenty thousand dollars per detainee

1497
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 9: per year by the United States right now, so he

1498
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,639
Speaker 9: also has a financial interest in keeping people in there.

1499
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 8: Even this per year deal makes now kind of makes

1500
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 8: the zero sense because both of them are arguing that

1501
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 8: there's no way to send anyone back, right, So, like

1502
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 8: it's not that it's even like, oh, they're only gonna

1503
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 8: be there for one year. It's like they're just they're

1504
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 8: just there, and like who knows if they're gonna like

1505
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 8: still be alive by the time that some of these

1506
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:27,720
Speaker 8: people would be able to get out, whether that's through

1507
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 8: the miraculous Donald Trump impeachment of twenty twenty six which

1508
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 8: will never happen, or like however, like these people are

1509
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 8: just they are just stuck there because he's not going

1510
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 8: to release them into his country. We are seemingly unable

1511
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 8: to take anyone back from there.

1512
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:44,639
Speaker 4: I think it's.

1513
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 9: Unwilling, right, Like the US is theoretically able.

1514
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 8: It's argued that we're unable as as people get into

1515
01:24:51,240 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 8: more after this ad break, Okay, we are back. One

1516
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 8: thing that we've seen across the Trump administration the past

1517
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,759
Speaker 8: eighty days or so. Something that we saw very evident

1518
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 8: in this meeting is that whenever a single person is

1519
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:20,600
Speaker 8: asked a question about the outrageous, possibly illegal, possibly not,

1520
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,720
Speaker 8: but just immoral or evils things that are being done,

1521
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 8: the first instinct is always to pass the buck on

1522
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 8: to someone else. We saw this a lot with Signalgate,

1523
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 8: how it was always someone else's faults. No single person

1524
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 8: could get like hammered down of being like, okay, you

1525
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 8: are the person that's going to be like accountable for this.

1526
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 8: And throughout this Oval Office meeting, eventually they started taking

1527
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:43,680
Speaker 8: questions from journalists and reporters and propagandists who are in

1528
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 8: the room. And you saw this trend of you know,

1529
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 8: if someone asks Trump about what's going on, he passes

1530
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 8: the buck to Stephen Miller, who passes the buck to Bouquetle,

1531
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 8: who then passes the buck to Mark Rubio. And it's

1532
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 8: like this big circle of like everyone's just talking around

1533
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 8: each other because no one really has the authority to

1534
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:02,679
Speaker 8: to speak on what's going on or how to fix

1535
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 8: this problem because they don't see it as a problem.

1536
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 8: So instead they just talk in a circle. And I

1537
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:09,720
Speaker 8: think Miller was one of the most effective at this

1538
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 8: and unfortunately, we're going to play the longest clip in

1539
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 8: this episode, just under two minutes from Stephen Miller, where

1540
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,640
Speaker 8: he lays out the Trump admins thought process and strategy

1541
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 8: behind what they are doing. And I apologize for this,

1542
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 8: but it is useful to hear from Himmler.

1543
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: Two.

1544
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 19: So here we go with respect to you, He's a

1545
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 19: citizen of El Salvador. So it's very arrogant, even for

1546
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 19: American media to suggest that we would even tell El

1547
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,679
Speaker 19: Salvador how to handle their own citizens as a starting point.

1548
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 19: As two immigration courts found that he was a member

1549
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 19: of MS thirteen. When President Trump declared MS thirteen to

1550
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 19: be a foreign terrorist organization, that meant that he was

1551
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 19: no longer eligible under federal law, which I'm sure you

1552
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 19: know you're very familiar with. The iron eg that he

1553
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:00,040
Speaker 19: was no longer eligible for any form of him a

1554
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 19: greation relief in the United States. So we had a

1555
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 19: deportation order that was valid, which meant that under our

1556
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,680
Speaker 19: law he's not even allowed to be present in the

1557
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 19: United States and had to be returned because of the

1558
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 19: foreign terrorist designation. This issue was then by District Court

1559
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 19: judge completely inverted, and a district court judge tried to

1560
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:23,919
Speaker 19: tell the administration that they had to kidnap a citizen

1561
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 19: of El Salvador and fly him back here. That issue

1562
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 19: was raised to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court

1563
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 19: said the district court order was unlawful and its main

1564
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 19: components were reversed nine zero, unanimously stating clearly that neither

1565
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 19: Secretary of State nor the President could be compelled by

1566
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 19: anybody to forcibly retrieve a citizen of El Salvador from

1567
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 19: Al Salvador, who again is a member of MS thirteen,

1568
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 19: which is I'm sure you understand, rapes little girls, murder's women,

1569
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 19: murder's children, is engaged in the most barbaric activities in

1570
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 19: the world. And I can promise you if he was

1571
01:27:57,479 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 19: your neighbor, you would move right away.

1572
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 9: So you don't think most came.

1573
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 14: And what was the r and the Supreme Court save

1574
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 14: was a nine to nothing.

1575
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:08,600
Speaker 1: Yes, it was a nine zero in our favor, in

1576
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 1: our favor against.

1577
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 14: The Juicu Court ruling saying that no has the power

1578
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:13,639
Speaker 14: to the.

1579
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:15,719
Speaker 1: Tele foreign policy function of the United States.

1580
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 3: As Pam said, the ruler solely sayd that if this

1581
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 3: individual El Salvador sole distress was set out to our country,

1582
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 3: that we could to pour him.

1583
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 19: A seven times no version of this legally ends up

1584
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:30,639
Speaker 19: with an ever living here because he is a citizen

1585
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 19: of El Savador.

1586
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 14: That is the president of Al Sadidorg.

1587
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 3: Your question about for the court can only be directed

1588
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 3: the tenant.

1589
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 8: So there's a lot there. Yeah, I think I'm going

1590
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 8: to start with I can promise you if he was

1591
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 8: your neighbor, you would move right away. And I think

1592
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 8: that is really the heart of what the Strump administration

1593
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 8: is is doing. Like it's it's appealing to this most

1594
01:28:54,360 --> 01:29:00,919
Speaker 8: basic like suburban crime, panic, fear, racism of well, if

1595
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 8: he was your neighbor, you wouldn't want him living next to.

1596
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 9: You, Yeah, like a Vegos neighborhood kind of.

1597
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 8: Well, just completely lying about like the context of this

1598
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,680
Speaker 8: case with you Miller saying it's arrogant suggest that we,

1599
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 8: the most powerful country in the world, are used to

1600
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,400
Speaker 8: be before the tariffs can tell El Salvador how to

1601
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:24,640
Speaker 8: handle its citizens, falsely claiming that immigration courts deemed him

1602
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:27,640
Speaker 8: a member of MS thirteen, which just is not true,

1603
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 8: talking about kidnapping him from Seacott to return him to

1604
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 8: the United States, as if Ice didn't just to kidnap

1605
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 8: hundreds of people with no criminal records and send them

1606
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:38,240
Speaker 8: to a foreign goo lug and then also lied about

1607
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 8: about the Supreme Court ruling, saying they found the district

1608
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 8: court order to return to Garcia unlawful and grossly mischaracterizing

1609
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 8: the scope of what the Supreme Court ruling was and

1610
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 8: how it was sent back to the district court to

1611
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:54,559
Speaker 8: work with the details on what facilitate the return actually means.

1612
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 8: And again, I think like the one of the most

1613
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 8: telling parts is how he ends by saying, quote, no

1614
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 8: version of this ever ends up with him living here,

1615
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:07,599
Speaker 8: And yeah, like they're gonna look for any any way

1616
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 8: to like make this test case to work, right and

1617
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 8: if and if they if they can do this to

1618
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 8: someone with protected legal status, who is not a who's

1619
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:17,839
Speaker 8: not a terrorist, who is not an actual MS thirteen

1620
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 8: gang member, right, this is this is kind of ideal

1621
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,639
Speaker 8: for them because that means they can paint anybody as

1622
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 8: as a foreign policy threat enough to be sent to

1623
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:27,519
Speaker 8: a foreign goolag. Then at the very end of the clip,

1624
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 8: he passes the buck off to to bouquettist to have

1625
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 8: to have him answer this question again perfectly laying out

1626
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 8: their strategy.

1627
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 9: There's a lot to break down in what military. It's

1628
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 9: also just kind of interesting cambillary is like amongst the press,

1629
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 9: he's not one of the people like sat on the

1630
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 9: couches supposed to be giving the press conference. Right, he

1631
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 9: just kind of wades in too. I guess like like

1632
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,880
Speaker 9: offer this opinion and kind kind of like be the

1633
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 9: kind of embassy of this of their response, I guess

1634
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 9: in a sense. Yeah, I think crucially, like a gonna go.

1635
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 9: Sea's protection was from being returned to El Salvador, right,

1636
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 9: because he had been harassed by gang members when leaving

1637
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 9: El Salvador and when being in El Salvador.

1638
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 8: He's lived in the States since twenty eleven, and he

1639
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 8: left El Salvador to flee harassment and abuse from from

1640
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:15,759
Speaker 8: gang members.

1641
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, the gangs that he's been accused of being a

1642
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 9: part of. But like it then follows that, like it

1643
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,680
Speaker 9: would be legal for them to deport him to a

1644
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 9: third country, right, and that is the path that they've

1645
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 9: followed with all the Venezuelan migrants. Right, They've accused him

1646
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 9: of being members of Trend de Ragua. I have not

1647
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 9: seen a compelling case made that any of them are yet.

1648
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 9: I'm sure people from Trend de Ragua have come to

1649
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 9: this country, but they have not provided any evidence that

1650
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 9: the people they have sent to say God, are those people.

1651
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:45,839
Speaker 8: No, Like we've had like fourteen people are like accused

1652
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,000
Speaker 8: of some kind of like violent crime like murder or rape,

1653
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 8: and in the other like two hundred and seventy five

1654
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 8: do not have a criminal record whatsoever.

1655
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, and the bulk of this is reliant on some

1656
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 9: kind of idea that they have entirely created from fiction,

1657
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 9: that they're are tattooing practices and one entered to end

1658
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:04,719
Speaker 9: a war. And for them, right, even if they can't

1659
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 9: be returned to Venezuela, they feel that they have this endraum,

1660
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 9: which is okay, we'll send them to a Salvador. But

1661
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,719
Speaker 9: for the Salvadarians, that's a different question, right, And that

1662
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 9: is what they're trying to find here, and that is

1663
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 9: worrying because the case here that is getting the most publicity,

1664
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 9: that seems to be the one that the Supreme Court

1665
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 9: has taken up, is about the Salbadaran man. And I

1666
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:29,320
Speaker 9: hope that doesn't mean that like the ship has sailed

1667
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 9: for the Venezuelans, right that essentially, yeah, No, like they

1668
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 9: don't have a case because that was the vast bulk

1669
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 9: of them. I think there was only like sixty Salbadrean

1670
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,320
Speaker 9: citizens and the rest Venezuelans, no.

1671
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,080
Speaker 8: One, hundreds of people have been like forgotten in this.

1672
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 8: After Miller's rant there, Mark Rubio jumped in to state that, quote,

1673
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:49,200
Speaker 8: no court in the United States has the right to

1674
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 8: conduct the foreign policy of the United States unquote. And

1675
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:56,040
Speaker 8: Steven Miller hopped back in to talk about this Supreme

1676
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 8: Court case that they're falsely saying they won nine to zero,

1677
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 8: which is not how that case went, and they start

1678
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 8: talking more broadly about what can be allowed if it

1679
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 8: has to do with the foreign policy of the United States,

1680
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 8: and how the courts don't have the ability to intervene

1681
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:11,960
Speaker 8: in that process.

1682
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 20: No, the foreign policy of the United States is conducted

1683
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 20: by the President of the United States, not by a court,

1684
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 20: and no court in the United States has a right

1685
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 20: to conduct the foreign policy of the United States. It's

1686
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:23,680
Speaker 20: that simple end.

1687
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 9: The story, and that's what the Supreme Court held.

1688
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 19: By the way, has Marcara fort the Supoini Court said

1689
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 19: exactly what Marco said. The no court has the authority

1690
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 19: to compel the foreign policy function the United States. We

1691
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,640
Speaker 19: want a case nine zero, and people like CNN are

1692
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 19: portraying it as a loss as usual because they want

1693
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 19: foreign terrorists in the country who kidnap women and children.

1694
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,200
Speaker 8: Part of what I find so disturbing about this idea

1695
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:49,720
Speaker 8: of you know, no habeas corpus, no due process if

1696
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 8: you aren't on foreign soil, is that like this idea

1697
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 8: of the court's having no jurisdiction over foreign policy decisions

1698
01:33:57,560 --> 01:34:00,760
Speaker 8: means that as long as you whether you're citizen, whether

1699
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 8: you're a permanent resident to document or undocumented immigrant, as

1700
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 8: long as you are forcedly removed from the United States soil,

1701
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 8: your rights and your due process has been forfeit, and

1702
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:13,240
Speaker 8: the US has neither the obligation nor sometimes the ability

1703
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 8: to return you to US soil if that is their

1704
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 8: foreign policy interest. And this is such a troubling broad

1705
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 8: concept that the portions of the courts are kind of

1706
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:28,719
Speaker 8: allowing them to claim right now. And the complete removal

1707
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:33,680
Speaker 8: of due process is like slowly getting encroached upon at

1708
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 8: first with undocumented immigrants and green card holders, but as

1709
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 8: we will see in the next section. They are also

1710
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 8: absolutely going to be targeting US citizens.

1711
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:43,599
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1712
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 9: I think like we should just point out obviously, the

1713
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 9: court is not conducting the foreign policy of the United States.

1714
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:51,120
Speaker 9: It's ruling on the legality of the action taken by

1715
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 9: the President, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

1716
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, And as it relates to your rights for due

1717
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:58,600
Speaker 8: process if you are in the United States.

1718
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, Like every single US person, right, US person

1719
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 9: would be anybody who resides in the US, be they

1720
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:09,720
Speaker 9: documented or done, documented, migrant, citizen, what have you like,

1721
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 9: has a stake in this.

1722
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 8: We're gonna go on break and then come back to

1723
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:18,000
Speaker 8: discuss the expansion of the sea Cott detention program and

1724
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,840
Speaker 8: the possible targeting of US citizens.

1725
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 9: Okay, we're back.

1726
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 8: So on April seventh, a few weeks ago, while on

1727
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 8: Air Force one, President Trump told reporters that he would

1728
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:40,799
Speaker 8: be quote unquote honored for the president of Al Salvador

1729
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 8: to take a US citizens quote unquote American grown and

1730
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 8: born criminals and put them in sea Cott, the Terrorism

1731
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 8: Confinement Center prison Black Site, saying quote why should it

1732
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:56,920
Speaker 8: stop just at people that crossed the border illegally unquote?

1733
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,040
Speaker 8: A few days later, the White House Presecretary reiterated that

1734
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:02,879
Speaker 8: this is something that Trump is discussing both publicly and privately,

1735
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:07,639
Speaker 8: and later during the April fourteenth Oval Office meeting, Trump

1736
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:11,040
Speaker 8: said that if Salvador was to build more of these

1737
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 8: torture megaprisons, the United States would quote unquote help them out.

1738
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 8: If the Trump administration could disappear more American immigrants and

1739
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 8: US citizens to these prison black sites, well.

1740
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 16: I pay for those societies to be open.

1741
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 13: I'd do something.

1742
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 14: We'd help them out.

1743
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 6: We help them.

1744
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 14: They great facilities, very strong facilities, and they don't play games.

1745
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:37,559
Speaker 14: I'd like to go a step further. I mean, I

1746
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:39,559
Speaker 14: say I said it to Pam. I don't know what

1747
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:41,719
Speaker 14: the laws are. We always have to obey the laws.

1748
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 14: But we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways,

1749
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:50,120
Speaker 14: that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head

1750
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:54,200
Speaker 14: with a baseball bat when they're not looking. That are

1751
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 14: absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in the group

1752
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:00,200
Speaker 14: of people to get them out of the country. But

1753
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:02,719
Speaker 14: you'll have to be looking at the laws on that state.

1754
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 1: Okay.

1755
01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:09,799
Speaker 8: So this is just the start of a long process

1756
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 8: that is going to be deeply troublesome and worrying, and

1757
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 8: again like this is something that they keep talking about.

1758
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:20,719
Speaker 8: I think they're still looking for some kind of legal

1759
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 8: justification or they're looking for something that maybe, if not

1760
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:27,800
Speaker 8: allows for this, explicitly prohibits this in a way that they

1761
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:28,839
Speaker 8: can't like get around.

1762
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:29,439
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1763
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,960
Speaker 9: Did you notice he called out Miller. He said, you'll

1764
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 9: have to look at the laws and the sieve Obviously

1765
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:35,799
Speaker 9: Miller is not the Attorney general.

1766
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 8: He also did mention Attorney General Pambondi. Pambondi, Yeah, who's

1767
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 8: also looking into this option right now?

1768
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:44,160
Speaker 9: Right, But Miller is often credited with being the kind

1769
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:47,240
Speaker 9: of mastermind between behind Title forty two right, which was

1770
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 9: an extremely obscure piece of public health law that was

1771
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:55,320
Speaker 9: immobilized by the first Trump administration to immediately return migrants

1772
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:57,519
Speaker 9: to Mexico without giving them their right to it an

1773
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 9: asylum hearing right. And that's what I'm wondering if they're

1774
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:04,200
Speaker 9: going for again, Like Steve Miller has been very good

1775
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 9: at this, at finding obscure justifications in the United States

1776
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:10,160
Speaker 9: federal law for shit that they want to do.

1777
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:12,799
Speaker 8: I think this is why they're definitely trying to stretch

1778
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 8: this foreign policy claim as far as they can that

1779
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 8: if it's if it's outside US soil, there's a limited

1780
01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 8: way US courts can actually interfere or undo things that

1781
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:25,600
Speaker 8: have already been done. And again, like the idea that

1782
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 8: we're going to like fund the construction of even more

1783
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:32,600
Speaker 8: of these l Salvador mega prisons just to house American

1784
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:36,719
Speaker 8: grown and born criminals as well as immigrants, Like we're

1785
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 8: just funding like goolog camps on foreign soil to send

1786
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:45,400
Speaker 8: the undesirables to. And no matter how much Trump talks

1787
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:47,640
Speaker 8: about how we're oldly going to send quote unquote like

1788
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 8: American criminals there, as we've seen with Seacott so far, Like, no,

1789
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 8: like the majority of people they are sending do not

1790
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:00,320
Speaker 8: have criminal criminal histories. I don't think anyone can trust

1791
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 8: the Trump administration's definition of what isn't isn't criminal to

1792
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,680
Speaker 8: this extent anymore. Later in the same meeting, Trump reiterated

1793
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 8: the same idea about sending you a citizens who his

1794
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:15,799
Speaker 8: administration deems criminals to this foreign black site. Here's another

1795
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:18,639
Speaker 8: clip is a fall question on a.

1796
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 16: Clarification you mentioned that you're open to supporting individuals that

1797
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 16: aren't foreign aliens for our criminals to Al Salvador. Does

1798
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:30,120
Speaker 16: that Does that include potentially US citizens fully naturalized.

1799
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 14: Immrading if they're criminals, and if they hit people with

1800
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:35,679
Speaker 14: baseball bats over the head that happened to be ninety

1801
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 14: years old, and if if they rape eighty seven year

1802
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:42,640
Speaker 14: old women in Coney.

1803
01:39:42,360 --> 01:39:43,480
Speaker 13: Island, Brooklyn.

1804
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:46,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, that includes Why do you think there's a

1805
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 14: special category of person. They're as bad as anybody that

1806
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,240
Speaker 14: comes in. We have bad ones too, and I'm all

1807
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 14: for it. We have others that were negotiating with to

1808
01:39:56,760 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 14: But no, it's if it's if it's a home grown criminal,

1809
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 14: I have no problem.

1810
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 8: He's really obsessed with baseball bats thing. I don't quite

1811
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 8: know what that's about.

1812
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 4: There seems like a specific case that he's referring to.

1813
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 8: Maybe it's something he remembers like thirty years ago that

1814
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:15,679
Speaker 8: it really got stuck in his head. Right, But also

1815
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 8: later he says that they're negotiating with other countries to

1816
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 8: send US citizens to not just El Salvador.

1817
01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:26,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean they've sent migrants third country migrant to

1818
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 9: Panama before, right, and detain them there. Honduras I believe

1819
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:34,559
Speaker 9: is building like a prison that's not dissimilar to siicort, Like,

1820
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:38,360
Speaker 9: I'm be guessing this will be their sort of way

1821
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:42,120
Speaker 9: of courting allies in the hemisphere because they'll sort of

1822
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:46,080
Speaker 9: pay them a relatively large amount in order to attempt

1823
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:47,680
Speaker 9: to offshore people they don't like.

1824
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, and again, like as we've seen the past few

1825
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 8: years and increasingly so now, the effort to label like

1826
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:59,439
Speaker 8: activists or people who are vocally opposed to the United

1827
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:02,160
Speaker 8: States foreign policy the United States and the State of

1828
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 8: Israel deeming them terrorists and then by extension, if you

1829
01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:09,120
Speaker 8: charge them with the crime, then criminals getting that they

1830
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:12,920
Speaker 8: can be housed in a place like Seacot now with

1831
01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 8: very very limited to no due process. The whole due

1832
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,559
Speaker 8: process question is still very up in the air for

1833
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:22,240
Speaker 8: how they're going to handle that aspect. But you can't

1834
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 8: just take this as like, oh, you know that that's

1835
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:26,560
Speaker 8: just Trump talking, like no, this is this is this

1836
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 8: is something they really want to do, and it's like

1837
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:32,479
Speaker 8: one of the freakiest things that I've seen in like

1838
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 8: domestic US politics in a long time. Earlier, Trump was

1839
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:41,639
Speaker 8: recorded half whispering to Beckley telling him that El Salvador

1840
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 8: needs to build five more Sea cought style torture prisons

1841
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:49,840
Speaker 8: to house US citizens, as Trump says, homegrown criminals. Bukeley

1842
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:53,160
Speaker 8: replies that they will have enough room, and then the

1843
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 8: entire Oval Office laughs.

1844
01:41:56,320 --> 01:42:01,439
Speaker 14: Yea, they said, home grunst, you get a build about

1845
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 14: five more places.

1846
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:03,840
Speaker 15: Yeah, that's all right.

1847
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:12,840
Speaker 8: It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen before. Yeah, talking

1848
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:15,640
Speaker 8: about homegrowns. Their next got to build five more places. Oh,

1849
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 8: we have enough space. Everyone laughs, and then Trump shows

1850
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 8: off the new gold frames for the portraits in the

1851
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:22,560
Speaker 8: Oval Office.

1852
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:25,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's like a dinner party joke for them. It

1853
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,919
Speaker 9: might just be worth noting that, like every totalitarian regime

1854
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:33,240
Speaker 9: has housed its dissidents outside of the imperial core. Right,

1855
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 9: like like Germany totally did this in the East, right,

1856
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:40,560
Speaker 9: Russia send people to Siberia for Russia Soviet Union.

1857
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:43,439
Speaker 8: Creating creating these like stateless zones where like the regular

1858
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:46,760
Speaker 8: laws of your of your like fatherland state do not.

1859
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 9: Apply, right and where the horrors are so far from

1860
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 9: the populace that the populist can't really grasp them. Yeah.

1861
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,800
Speaker 8: No, this is like elementary school stuff. It says, like,

1862
01:42:57,800 --> 01:42:59,960
Speaker 8: like the first thing you learn about is concentration camps

1863
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 8: and goologs. Now, that's like this symbol of evil and

1864
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 8: now it's something you laugh about in the Oval Office

1865
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 8: to send home growns to five disappearing torture camps.

1866
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:14,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, and like, just to be like even clear, I

1867
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:18,800
Speaker 9: guess what distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison is

1868
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 9: that there is no due process right. People are sent

1869
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 9: there because of who they are, not because of what

1870
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:23,639
Speaker 9: they did.

1871
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:25,800
Speaker 8: Like if you're a Venezuelan man who may or may

1872
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 8: not have a tattoo.

1873
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:30,599
Speaker 9: Yeah, like the way, I don't know what it will

1874
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,280
Speaker 9: take for some people to realize what's happening here.

1875
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 8: And like the president of El Salvador is so on

1876
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 8: board for this.

1877
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean he doesn't hide from that reputation, right,

1878
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:43,240
Speaker 9: he embraces it. His Twitter for a while had world's

1879
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 9: Coolest dictator in the bio. I don't know if it

1880
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:45,639
Speaker 9: still does.

1881
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 8: Like and like, both him and Trump have openly aligned

1882
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 8: themselves with quote unquote nationalism and nationalists. They're openly saying this.

1883
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:56,720
Speaker 8: Trump said dictator on day one. That wasn't just a

1884
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,280
Speaker 8: rhetorical device, that was literal. This is what he's doing.

1885
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 8: A president told Trump, you have three hundred and fifty

1886
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:05,080
Speaker 8: million people to liberate, but to liberate three hundred and

1887
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 8: fifty million people, you have to imprison some. And you

1888
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 8: follow that up by saying that he is eager to

1889
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 8: help with that.

1890
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:16,200
Speaker 6: And if fat mister president, you have three hundred and

1891
01:44:16,200 --> 01:44:17,800
Speaker 6: fifty million people to liberate it.

1892
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:20,960
Speaker 14: But to liberate three hundred and fifteen million people, you

1893
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:21,840
Speaker 14: have to imprison some.

1894
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 1: You know, that's the way it.

1895
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:23,800
Speaker 7: Works, right.

1896
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 1: You cannot just you know, free the.

1897
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 20: Criminals and think Rymes is going to go down magically.

1898
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:31,000
Speaker 6: Have to imprisoned them so you can liberate three hundred

1899
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:34,000
Speaker 6: and fifty million Americans that are asking for the end

1900
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:35,719
Speaker 6: of crime and the end of theroists.

1901
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,280
Speaker 14: Many can be done, I mean, if you're doing it already.

1902
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:42,920
Speaker 6: So I'm really happy to be here, honored.

1903
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:47,280
Speaker 8: Any anger to help this whole. Like liberation through imprisonment

1904
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 8: thing is elementary school stuff here.

1905
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:52,240
Speaker 9: You don't have to have a PhD in the history

1906
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 9: of the nineteen thirties to have someone tell you that

1907
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:57,160
Speaker 9: the liberation of the chosen nation by purging of the

1908
01:44:57,200 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 9: undesirables is fascist shit. But like I'm here with one

1909
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 9: tell you if that's what you need. You know, like

1910
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:06,080
Speaker 9: this is textbook stuff. Like Garrison's saying like this is

1911
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:09,160
Speaker 9: not debatable, Like I know, we spent the last four

1912
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:11,760
Speaker 9: years debating is Trump a fascist or not? I don't

1913
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:15,000
Speaker 9: think that matters hugely, right, Like this is a fascist thing.

1914
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:18,080
Speaker 8: It's so much more disturbing that now, according to like polls,

1915
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:21,080
Speaker 8: like half around half the population maybe a little bit

1916
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,640
Speaker 8: less just agree with the current way that deportations are

1917
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:27,760
Speaker 8: happening and Trump's immigration policy like on a completely like

1918
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 8: flat basis. And if you spend any time on on

1919
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 8: X the everything app watching videos of the of these

1920
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:36,760
Speaker 8: press conferences, it's full of people just like cheering this

1921
01:45:36,880 --> 01:45:38,919
Speaker 8: on completely, like completely blankly.

1922
01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:41,200
Speaker 9: I think that's a very skewed samplet of people who

1923
01:45:41,280 --> 01:45:43,719
Speaker 9: totally paid for Elon Musk of.

1924
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,479
Speaker 8: Course, of course, but like the number of.

1925
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 9: People, Yeah, it's real humans saying like these are real.

1926
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:54,800
Speaker 8: People who just just completely completely blankly think this is

1927
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:56,680
Speaker 8: a this is this is a net good and like

1928
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:58,920
Speaker 8: this is those people are unreachable. You cannot come back

1929
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:00,800
Speaker 8: from that, like you is, there is no coming back

1930
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 8: from that if you believe that the way depretations are

1931
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:07,639
Speaker 8: currently happening is fair, just and right, Like I cannot

1932
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 8: understand you as a human anymore. That is so like

1933
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:12,280
Speaker 8: divorced and like alien.

1934
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, you've gone past the point of no return, right, like.

1935
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:17,880
Speaker 8: Liberals who like shield the who like shield their eyes

1936
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:20,679
Speaker 8: from like the whores at the border. Like, I don't

1937
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:22,720
Speaker 8: agree with that, but in some ways I can understand it.

1938
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 8: The open like cheering on of this right is like

1939
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:27,840
Speaker 8: a whole It's a whole other level.

1940
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:29,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's not like I can't bear to see it.

1941
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:31,080
Speaker 9: I'm gonna ignore it so it will cause me to

1942
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 9: confront the no the contradictions. It's I'm seeing it on

1943
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:35,559
Speaker 9: watch again and I think it's fucking great.

1944
01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 8: The last thing I'm gonna I'm gonna play here A

1945
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:41,240
Speaker 8: scene and reporter asked Trump if he would obey a

1946
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:44,200
Speaker 8: Supreme Court order to return someone to the United States.

1947
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:48,200
Speaker 8: Instead of answering this question, Trump attacked the reporter and

1948
01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:53,080
Speaker 8: complained about how she wasn't praising him for deporting criminals.

1949
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:55,800
Speaker 19: You said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed

1950
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 19: to be returned, that you would abide by that.

1951
01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 1: You said that on Air Force one just a few

1952
01:46:58,800 --> 01:46:59,680
Speaker 1: days ago, and.

1953
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,400
Speaker 3: They said it must facilitating.

1954
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 14: Why don't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're

1955
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 14: keeping criminals out?

1956
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 6: Of our country.

1957
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 14: Why can't you just say that? Why do you go

1958
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:12,879
Speaker 14: over and over and that's why nobody watches you anymore?

1959
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:14,400
Speaker 14: You know you have no credibility.

1960
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:20,759
Speaker 8: Please go ahead, Yeah, mad very textbook authoritarian like blanket

1961
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:23,599
Speaker 8: stuff like there's there's nothing to like commentate about that.

1962
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:26,720
Speaker 8: It just is what it is. I guess we do.

1963
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:29,640
Speaker 8: We do some breaking news because we're recordings on Tuesday.

1964
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 8: James want to want to, impossibly five minutes or less,

1965
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,000
Speaker 8: fill us in about the the update from the from

1966
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:40,280
Speaker 8: the District Court on Garcia's case since it was sent

1967
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:42,559
Speaker 8: back to the district Court from the Supreme Court last

1968
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:48,160
Speaker 8: week regarding his possible facilitated return to the United States.

1969
01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:52,519
Speaker 9: Right, so much of this has hinged over what facilitate means, right,

1970
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 9: Like they found a legal concept that they can argue

1971
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,120
Speaker 9: at nauseum and in this case, it's the word facilitate.

1972
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:03,439
Speaker 9: DJ didn't presently new information today, but we see that

1973
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:05,559
Speaker 9: like there's some hopeful things on a district court judge

1974
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 9: and then it kind of all goes up in flames.

1975
01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 9: But I think genis XI and I s is how

1976
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:15,360
Speaker 9: the name is spelled. I believe it's genius said that

1977
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:17,439
Speaker 9: every day that he's there is a day of further

1978
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 9: irreparable harm. And she talks about the process being at

1979
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:24,400
Speaker 9: the roots of the constitution. Right, She's ordered for like

1980
01:48:24,439 --> 01:48:28,080
Speaker 9: two weeks more of discovery, which is going to mean

1981
01:48:28,360 --> 01:48:30,840
Speaker 9: that both sides have more time to repair their cases. Right,

1982
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:32,759
Speaker 9: she wants people to testify in front of the court.

1983
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:37,000
Speaker 9: She is so the administration has argued that facilitating his

1984
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 9: return would consist of them allowing him to enter the

1985
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:44,600
Speaker 9: United States if Bukele released him, and possibly providing a

1986
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 9: flight for that to happen, but not crucially ensuring his

1987
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:51,800
Speaker 9: release from secord. Right, and so anything else subsequent to

1988
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:56,519
Speaker 9: that doesn't matter. Chinis said that like their interpretation of

1989
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 9: the word flies in the face of the plain meaning

1990
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 9: of the word. Quote, when a wrong fear removed individual

1991
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 9: is uh. And then I'm adding to the quote here

1992
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:06,439
Speaker 9: I guess or context. She means when a wrong fee

1993
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:09,680
Speaker 9: remove individual is taken outside the US, it's not so

1994
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:11,120
Speaker 9: cut and dry that all you have to do is

1995
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 9: remove obstacles domestically. She also said, quote to the Department

1996
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:17,439
Speaker 9: of Justice here, you made your jurisdictional arguments, you made

1997
01:49:17,479 --> 01:49:20,799
Speaker 9: your venue arguments, you major arguments on the merits you lost.

1998
01:49:21,439 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 9: This is now about the scope of the remedy. Right,

1999
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 9: this is a case that Miller is claiming they want.

2000
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 9: That's pretty unequivocal for a justice. However, she does not

2001
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:35,080
Speaker 9: seem to think that it is within her power to

2002
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:39,200
Speaker 9: request his return from El Salvador. So she's calling for

2003
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 9: things to move quickly. Right, they want to conduct depositions

2004
01:49:43,160 --> 01:49:46,799
Speaker 9: about twenty third of April, she said, quote council vacations,

2005
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 9: council over appointments. I'm usually pretty good about it. Not

2006
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:51,519
Speaker 9: this time. I'm going to be available if you need

2007
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 9: to do it odd hours or weekends. That's what I'm

2008
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:59,320
Speaker 9: talking about. Anything short of a judge saying you have

2009
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 9: to go to se Calle, remove him from the cell,

2010
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:02,800
Speaker 9: put him on the plane, and bring him back to

2011
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,280
Speaker 9: America is going to be interpreted by the Trump administration

2012
01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 9: to mean that they don't.

2013
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:06,639
Speaker 1: Have to do that.

2014
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:08,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, they're going to weasel their way around it, the

2015
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:11,519
Speaker 8: same way you heard Steven Miller weasel his way around

2016
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 8: every question, and with with truth being used as a

2017
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,640
Speaker 8: as a flexible medium. Yeah, to shape a sculpture of

2018
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 8: their choosing.

2019
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:22,840
Speaker 9: And like they've done that. Right, the word facilitate. I

2020
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,080
Speaker 9: think most people who are first language English speakers have

2021
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:27,000
Speaker 9: a fairly good grasp with what that means, and it

2022
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:31,240
Speaker 9: doesn't mean like remove barriers domestically, that's what they've gone for.

2023
01:50:32,160 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 9: The only way that he is getting out, it's a

2024
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:39,720
Speaker 9: majority Supreme Court decision that is extremely explicit that directs

2025
01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:42,719
Speaker 9: the Trump administration to go to El Salvadore and remove

2026
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 9: him from that prison. I haven't seen anything to indicate

2027
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 9: that we're getting that anytime soon. And as the judge said,

2028
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 9: right every day he's there, he's a reparable harm is

2029
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:57,200
Speaker 9: done to him. And that's where we're at right now,

2030
01:50:57,320 --> 01:50:59,880
Speaker 9: right with people arguing over the definition of a war,

2031
01:51:00,280 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 9: as hundreds of people are locked up having done nothing

2032
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:04,719
Speaker 9: wrong in a giant torture prison.

2033
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 8: And this is not the only person who we believe

2034
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:12,240
Speaker 8: was quote unquote mistakingly sent other supporting today coming out

2035
01:51:12,280 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 8: of documented New York.

2036
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:14,799
Speaker 9: Yeah, good outlet.

2037
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:16,920
Speaker 8: By the way, a father of a nineteen year old

2038
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:21,320
Speaker 8: legal legal immigrant from Brooklyn. This nineteen year old with

2039
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:26,200
Speaker 8: no tattoos, was kidnapped off the streets of New York.

2040
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:30,879
Speaker 8: The quote from his father reads, quote the officers grabbed

2041
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:33,680
Speaker 8: him and two other boys right at the entrance to

2042
01:51:33,720 --> 01:51:37,920
Speaker 8: our building. One said, no, he's not the one, like

2043
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:39,080
Speaker 8: they were looking for someone else.

2044
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:42,320
Speaker 9: One officer to be clear, correct, Yeah, but.

2045
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 8: The other officer said take him anyway, unquote. And now

2046
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:51,080
Speaker 8: this father, exactly a month later, is still looking for

2047
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:56,000
Speaker 8: his missing son, who is disappeared into a new Salvador

2048
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:57,000
Speaker 8: torture prison.

2049
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:00,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, Jesus. Like I've said before, for on this show,

2050
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,240
Speaker 9: like one of the things that I learned in the

2051
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:05,719
Speaker 9: Darien Gap was how much people can care about their kids,

2052
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 9: and like this shit that I saw people do to

2053
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:13,360
Speaker 9: ensure that kids had a better life, like broke my

2054
01:52:13,439 --> 01:52:15,400
Speaker 9: heart in a way that war hasn't that like anything

2055
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:17,680
Speaker 9: else I've seen in my life hasn't. And it's like

2056
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:20,240
Speaker 9: honestly really hard for me to hear stuff like that

2057
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 9: and and like not react just being really sad or

2058
01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:27,479
Speaker 9: really angry, like it's fucking brutal.

2059
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:30,240
Speaker 8: Things are looking a lot more grim in my mind

2060
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:32,920
Speaker 8: than they were when we recorded that Should You Leave

2061
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 8: the United States episode. I still think the things I

2062
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:41,519
Speaker 8: said there I stand by, and I stand by the

2063
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:45,519
Speaker 8: only recommendation I have is to create options for yourself,

2064
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 8: and I think those options should be created as soon

2065
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:52,800
Speaker 8: as possible, especially if your citizenship is a topic of

2066
01:52:52,840 --> 01:52:56,439
Speaker 8: debate according to the United States government. But even that

2067
01:52:56,479 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 8: will not keep you safe. As we've talked about today,

2068
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:03,240
Speaker 8: your options include creating networks to take care of one another. Right, Like,

2069
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:07,479
Speaker 8: the things that will probably affect more of you than

2070
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:13,719
Speaker 8: direct state violence are economic downturns, are recessions, right, things

2071
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:15,639
Speaker 8: like this, like those are things that you can take

2072
01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 8: care of one another through, and like you should plan

2073
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:21,640
Speaker 8: to do that too. You should you should think about

2074
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:23,360
Speaker 8: how you're going to pay your bills, how you're going

2075
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:24,960
Speaker 8: to feed each other, how you're going to take care

2076
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 8: of your medical needs. Because I don't think that the

2077
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 8: world is going to want to keep doing business with

2078
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:36,720
Speaker 8: the country that acts like this, and both economically and

2079
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 8: in terms of its conduct towards migrants. So like, your

2080
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:43,559
Speaker 8: plans don't have to be to leave, Like your plans

2081
01:53:43,560 --> 01:53:46,960
Speaker 8: should also include what to do if things get really bad,

2082
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 8: like in an economic sense.

2083
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 9: I'm not going to tell you what that means. But

2084
01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:52,680
Speaker 9: it's all the stuff he's already talked about, right, It's

2085
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:56,840
Speaker 9: mutual aid, it's it's all the all the basic preparedness

2086
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:00,000
Speaker 9: stuff that is not as big and scary as leaving

2087
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:03,599
Speaker 9: the country, but it is nonetheless like vital.

2088
01:54:05,479 --> 01:54:08,800
Speaker 8: We will continue to report on the Garcia case other

2089
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 8: court cases regarding these three hundred people renditioned to El

2090
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:16,280
Speaker 8: Salvador and Seacott in the next.

2091
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:20,840
Speaker 9: Few weeks, just to finish up. As things continue to

2092
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:23,400
Speaker 9: get worse, people keep reaching out to us, which we appreciate.

2093
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:26,679
Speaker 9: If you would like to, you can email us cool

2094
01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:31,240
Speaker 9: Zone tips at proton dot me. We will read it.

2095
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:33,120
Speaker 9: We might not get back to you. Your email is

2096
01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:35,000
Speaker 9: not end to end encrypted unless the email that you're

2097
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:38,840
Speaker 9: sending from is also encrypted, that you can reach out

2098
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 9: to us.

2099
01:54:39,120 --> 01:55:00,600
Speaker 15: See you on the other side.

2100
01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:05,320
Speaker 3: Welcome to Dake. It happened here a podcast increasingly well

2101
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:08,880
Speaker 3: named as the days go on. I am your host,

2102
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:09,920
Speaker 3: Bio Wong, and.

2103
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:10,920
Speaker 4: It occurs to me.

2104
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:15,440
Speaker 3: Over the course of the many, many, many, many many

2105
01:55:15,800 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 3: Union episodes we've done in this podcast, we haven't really

2106
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 3: done much coverage of just straight up how do you

2107
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 3: do a strike? So today we're going to be covering

2108
01:55:25,560 --> 01:55:28,040
Speaker 3: a pretty long running strike. We're gonna say how many

2109
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:29,840
Speaker 3: days it has been going. It's unclear when this episode

2110
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:31,760
Speaker 3: is gonna come out, So who fucking knows how long

2111
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 3: it'll be when when you hear it. But yeah, with

2112
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:39,040
Speaker 3: me to talk about this strike is Spencer Jordan, who

2113
01:55:39,080 --> 01:55:40,800
Speaker 3: is a rank and file member of the Urban or

2114
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:42,800
Speaker 3: Workers Union. Spencer, welcome to the show.

2115
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 1: Hey, thank you so much for having me. Miah.

2116
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:47,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you about this. So

2117
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:49,680
Speaker 3: this is what day is it today? I should know

2118
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:53,280
Speaker 3: this April fifteenth, And as of April fifteenth, you've been

2119
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:54,920
Speaker 3: out try for twenty five days.

2120
01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just about right. Yeah, it started on the

2121
01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:02,120
Speaker 1: twenty second of March. We our strike vote like a

2122
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:07,480
Speaker 1: solid twelve days before before we actually went out on

2123
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:11,720
Speaker 1: the picket line. And one that strike vote with fourteen

2124
01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:15,280
Speaker 1: yes is a single no and I think four extensions.

2125
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 1: Pretty yeah. Yeah, so nine of those voting voted yes. Yeah,

2126
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 1: which good of good ratios?

2127
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:27,040
Speaker 3: Good ratios. I think like typically you want at least

2128
01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:30,880
Speaker 3: like mid seventies if we're going to do this kind

2129
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:33,280
Speaker 3: of thing. But you know, as listener to the show,

2130
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 3: hopefully understand by now you can't just like call a

2131
01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:39,400
Speaker 3: strike and have it happen. You know, you have to

2132
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:41,120
Speaker 3: do a whole bunch of organizing. So I want to

2133
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:44,760
Speaker 3: kind of start at the dynamics of the organizing of

2134
01:56:44,800 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 3: how this shop got going, because this is a pretty

2135
01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:51,080
Speaker 3: small shop from the sounds of it. And yeah, yeah,

2136
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:52,760
Speaker 3: so do you want to talk a bit about what

2137
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 3: the basic process of getting this organizing started was like

2138
01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 3: and what the sort of like social mapping looked like

2139
01:56:58,080 --> 01:56:58,880
Speaker 3: and stuff like that.

2140
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the organization process started around like a year

2141
01:57:06,200 --> 01:57:09,560
Speaker 1: and a half before we actually had our unionization vote,

2142
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:12,960
Speaker 1: which was actually we had the vote in March and

2143
01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:16,880
Speaker 1: we got our win on April seventh, two years ago,

2144
01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:22,560
Speaker 1: so we actually just had our union two year birthday birthday.

2145
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:27,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, so preceding that was like, like I said,

2146
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:31,000
Speaker 1: about a year and a half organizing that involved you know,

2147
01:57:31,080 --> 01:57:33,960
Speaker 1: the typical thing of like one on one conversations with

2148
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:38,160
Speaker 1: like all the staff, making the you know, color coded

2149
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:42,680
Speaker 1: spreadsheet and everything, which all of this was not my

2150
01:57:42,680 --> 01:57:44,640
Speaker 1: my purview. I'm a lot more involved now than I

2151
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:48,200
Speaker 1: was at the start of the process. And I was

2152
01:57:48,240 --> 01:57:51,800
Speaker 1: approached by like one of our lead organizers really shortly

2153
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:56,080
Speaker 1: after being hired just to kind of you know read

2154
01:57:56,120 --> 01:58:00,600
Speaker 1: the dipstick as too like my sentiments about it and whatnot.

2155
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:04,480
Speaker 1: I was pretty on board right away. I mean, you know,

2156
01:58:04,840 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 1: like I'm from the Bay Area, so it's not.

2157
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:12,080
Speaker 3: There are there are only two types of people from

2158
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:13,920
Speaker 3: the Bay Area. You wouldn't be having one of the

2159
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:14,360
Speaker 3: one that ship.

2160
01:58:14,440 --> 01:58:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. So I'm of the ladder type. So

2161
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:21,560
Speaker 1: you know, it being pro union is isn't isn't like

2162
01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 1: a foreign thing to my background.

2163
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:28,080
Speaker 21: You know, you don't look like a tech work Yeah, yeah,

2164
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:30,400
Speaker 21: especially like my family's from the Midwest and everything, so

2165
01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:34,200
Speaker 21: there's yeah, my my aunt actually just learned that she

2166
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:37,000
Speaker 21: was like a clerk working for the railroads back in

2167
01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 21: the day when my railroad jobs were still like a

2168
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:41,320
Speaker 21: big thing you could have anyways.

2169
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:44,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I had had my like own sort

2170
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:48,240
Speaker 1: of like just observations of like whoah, like what's what's

2171
01:58:48,280 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 1: going on in the workplace aside from like my own

2172
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:55,200
Speaker 1: just like prediliction to thinking, you know, more worker power

2173
01:58:55,240 --> 01:58:58,720
Speaker 1: is better. Yeah, also kind of seeing like some of

2174
01:58:58,760 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 1: the factors that dicipitated it, Like for instance, like when

2175
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:05,800
Speaker 1: I was hired here, I was hired in my interview,

2176
01:59:06,160 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 1: it was the one of the owners and the manager

2177
01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:14,760
Speaker 1: of my department, my department being salvage and recycling department

2178
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:17,960
Speaker 1: of the urban or which is kind of like not

2179
01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:20,280
Speaker 1: super public facing. We like go to the dump and

2180
01:59:20,360 --> 01:59:24,960
Speaker 1: like root around through the garbage like you know, is

2181
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:27,680
Speaker 1: or whatever, get to get stuff for the store. But

2182
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:31,240
Speaker 1: that manager, you know, he was there in the interview

2183
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:35,600
Speaker 1: and we got to the portion where the owner explained

2184
01:59:36,600 --> 01:59:41,120
Speaker 1: what at will employment is. Oh and she and she went,

2185
01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:46,400
Speaker 1: so we're at will here. So Sam Weell, Sam was

2186
01:59:46,600 --> 01:59:49,520
Speaker 1: my manager. Well, how long have you been here? Twenty

2187
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:52,960
Speaker 1: one years? He's there, hands folded on the table. Yes.

2188
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:56,640
Speaker 1: What at will means is, uh, it could be tomorrow.

2189
01:59:56,760 --> 01:59:59,880
Speaker 1: I could say, you know, Samuell, it's been a great

2190
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:03,320
Speaker 1: twenty one years. I really appreciate all the work you've done.

2191
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 1: Today's your last day, what I say. And he has

2192
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:12,480
Speaker 1: to sit there and go Jesus Christ, and then she says,

2193
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:15,640
Speaker 1: of course, likewise, tomorrow sim Well could come to me

2194
02:00:15,880 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 1: and say, hey, Mary Lou, it's been twenty one years.

2195
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed it. I'm quitting. So you know, the sort

2196
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:28,640
Speaker 1: of sword over his neck is being cast is somehow

2197
02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:31,400
Speaker 1: equal to him not being like indentured.

2198
02:00:32,360 --> 02:00:37,480
Speaker 3: Yes, it's also just I mean, like you know, yeah,

2199
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:40,720
Speaker 3: on the basic level, Yeah, it's like okay, your opponent

2200
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 3: I guess they argue to put it your boss. Your

2201
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:46,200
Speaker 3: boss can just instantly fire you for any reason whatsoever,

2202
02:00:46,440 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 3: for any about of time. And then also you could

2203
02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:53,880
Speaker 3: quit the job and then really flects a plans.

2204
02:00:53,120 --> 02:00:57,440
Speaker 10: Like as a management tactic, like are you like trying

2205
02:00:57,480 --> 02:01:01,600
Speaker 10: to piss off your support? And it's like, what, I

2206
02:01:01,640 --> 02:01:05,000
Speaker 10: have never had a boss like just do that in

2207
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:06,240
Speaker 10: a hiring meeting.

2208
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:07,080
Speaker 3: What?

2209
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean have you have you worked at like

2210
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:13,960
Speaker 1: a like a like a sat of small like mom

2211
02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 1: and pop quote unquote business.

2212
02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's probably That's probably why because

2213
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:23,240
Speaker 3: I've usually had like larger my shitty jobs have either

2214
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:27,400
Speaker 3: been like government jobs or like like larger companies, so

2215
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 3: there was less of the like I heard a line

2216
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:33,240
Speaker 3: recently that I wish I remember where it was from.

2217
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:35,440
Speaker 3: It might be a line from Star Trek.

2218
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:36,360
Speaker 1: Like one of the.

2219
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:39,360
Speaker 3: Fengi rules is just like treat your employees like family,

2220
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:42,480
Speaker 3: exploit them ruthlessly, which I like, you.

2221
02:01:42,440 --> 02:01:47,600
Speaker 1: Know, that's a that's a traditional line in business, especially

2222
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:52,240
Speaker 1: in small business, and it's it's no stranger here. Yeah,

2223
02:01:52,280 --> 02:01:56,040
Speaker 1: that question of like whining to piss off your subordinates

2224
02:01:56,120 --> 02:02:00,240
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's a I don't know if pissing off

2225
02:02:00,280 --> 02:02:04,840
Speaker 1: is necessarily like the concern, but the ownership here definitely.

2226
02:02:06,080 --> 02:02:08,640
Speaker 1: I've gotten the impression that they enjoy showing their power,

2227
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:14,000
Speaker 1: and I've gotten the impression that the sort of like

2228
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:19,040
Speaker 1: uncertainty and like my mom would call it jockeying for

2229
02:02:19,160 --> 02:02:22,560
Speaker 1: position that you have to do is a dynamic that

2230
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:25,240
Speaker 1: they I can't say I really can't say they honestly

2231
02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:29,160
Speaker 1: because the other owner, he hasn't been very active in

2232
02:02:29,160 --> 02:02:32,480
Speaker 1: the business since since my hiring, but at least Marry

2233
02:02:32,520 --> 02:02:36,120
Speaker 1: Lou Yeah, tends to lean on. That's kind of like

2234
02:02:36,240 --> 02:02:40,720
Speaker 1: the the special quality that you get with like a

2235
02:02:40,760 --> 02:02:43,880
Speaker 1: small business and organizing in a small workplace is that, like,

2236
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, you can see sort of in their public

2237
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:52,760
Speaker 1: communications the way that like the Zucks and the Bezos

2238
02:02:52,880 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 1: is and the rest of them feel about their employees,

2239
02:02:56,400 --> 02:02:58,480
Speaker 1: and you know, you can get a sense of perhaps

2240
02:02:58,480 --> 02:03:01,200
Speaker 1: how they might act or to their employees if they

2241
02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:05,720
Speaker 1: like interacted with them on a daily basis. But in

2242
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:09,440
Speaker 1: a small business setting, you really get a keen view

2243
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:16,800
Speaker 1: into how like the power of the employer mixes very

2244
02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:24,240
Speaker 1: readily with a person's like pred election towards discipline, pred

2245
02:03:24,240 --> 02:03:30,360
Speaker 1: election towards like personal what'd you call it personal battling? Almost?

2246
02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, AND's and it's also like it's inescapable in

2247
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,160
Speaker 3: a way that it isn't with like you know, if

2248
02:03:36,160 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 3: you're dealing with people who are you know, you're at

2249
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:39,840
Speaker 3: a larger company, you're not dealing with the person. Like

2250
02:03:40,280 --> 02:03:43,480
Speaker 3: there's an old Chinese expression that is like heaven is

2251
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:46,640
Speaker 3: high and the emperor is far away. So you know,

2252
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:48,280
Speaker 3: it's like you know, like a lot of times you're

2253
02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:50,280
Speaker 3: dealing with okay, yeah there is like you know, your

2254
02:03:50,320 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg is there, but he's like he never interacts with you.

2255
02:03:53,600 --> 02:03:56,720
Speaker 3: But with this, it's like, no, the small business tyrant

2256
02:03:56,840 --> 02:03:59,000
Speaker 3: is right there in your face all the time and

2257
02:03:59,080 --> 02:04:01,000
Speaker 3: all of the weird heady shit that they want to

2258
02:04:01,000 --> 02:04:02,760
Speaker 3: do in all of this sort of like you know,

2259
02:04:02,800 --> 02:04:04,520
Speaker 3: and I would say, this isn't just just like a

2260
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:06,720
Speaker 3: unique thing of like small business owners, like people in

2261
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 3: all positions, like in all portions of of like the

2262
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:13,960
Speaker 3: class society have in them kind of like the capacity

2263
02:04:13,960 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 3: for cruelty. And there's just people like that, but they

2264
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:19,600
Speaker 3: don't normally have the ability to just do it to

2265
02:04:19,680 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 3: you directly in your face. And that's yeah, and that's

2266
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:24,840
Speaker 3: like that's you know, this is what you've been talking about,

2267
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:26,720
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, you have like these small business tyrants,

2268
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:29,560
Speaker 3: and like every suddenly in the same way that like,

2269
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:32,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, you're dealing with like like one of

2270
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 3: the random King Louis and you're like in the court

2271
02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:37,360
Speaker 3: and suddenly just like the fact that this guy doesn't

2272
02:04:37,400 --> 02:04:39,560
Speaker 3: like people going to the bathroom means that everyone around

2273
02:04:39,640 --> 02:04:41,720
Speaker 3: him doesn't get it, doesn't get doesn't get a shit, right,

2274
02:04:41,760 --> 02:04:44,839
Speaker 3: Like it's just like, yeah, it's weird.

2275
02:04:44,920 --> 02:04:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, no exactly. It's like it's actually an argument that

2276
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:55,000
Speaker 1: she's deployed in her Reddit correspondence, which has been skimmingly

2277
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:58,160
Speaker 1: a pretty active part of her spare time that she's

2278
02:04:58,160 --> 02:05:00,800
Speaker 1: not spending at the bargaining table with us, you know,

2279
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:05,200
Speaker 1: made this comparison of like this isn't a question about

2280
02:05:05,200 --> 02:05:08,320
Speaker 1: oligarchs or whatever. And it's true, like the small businessman

2281
02:05:08,840 --> 02:05:14,760
Speaker 1: is not an oligarch, but the small business is a

2282
02:05:14,800 --> 02:05:21,200
Speaker 1: microcosm of like the larger capitalist social order. And while

2283
02:05:21,680 --> 02:05:25,280
Speaker 1: the small business man might not have the scope of

2284
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:30,320
Speaker 1: power of the oligarch, or like the actual capital resources

2285
02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:34,200
Speaker 1: of an oligarch, the behavior certainly rhymes yeah.

2286
02:05:34,760 --> 02:05:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again it's like it's a lot of it

2287
02:05:37,040 --> 02:05:40,120
Speaker 3: is about it's just how much power you have access to, right, Like,

2288
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:44,280
Speaker 3: lots of people can be like this, but only the few,

2289
02:05:44,400 --> 02:05:47,080
Speaker 3: the proud, the small business type get to do it.

2290
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And you know, ultimately the employer or wherever

2291
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:55,920
Speaker 1: they are, they're in this privileged position of being able

2292
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:59,520
Speaker 1: to Yeah, you spend most people more on than like

2293
02:05:59,560 --> 02:06:02,360
Speaker 1: a thirty your life at work. Yeah, the employer has

2294
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:05,440
Speaker 1: this unique power to dictate what that third of your

2295
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:09,800
Speaker 1: life looks like. You know, yeah, we talk about I mean, shit,

2296
02:06:09,880 --> 02:06:13,360
Speaker 1: we don't. People are not so much talking about democracy

2297
02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:18,600
Speaker 1: writ large in the US in the same way now

2298
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:22,280
Speaker 1: they used to. But you know, you talk about this

2299
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:26,080
Speaker 1: idea of like living in a democracy, but democracy ends

2300
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:26,840
Speaker 1: at the shop door.

2301
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:32,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And like the kind of power that these

2302
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:35,760
Speaker 3: people have is something that like these people get to

2303
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 3: control when you can go to the bathroom, like what

2304
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 3: clothes you where, like literally what you can do, what

2305
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:46,040
Speaker 3: you can say at any given time. If you employed

2306
02:06:46,120 --> 02:06:49,240
Speaker 3: the exact level of control that your boss has over

2307
02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:51,760
Speaker 3: you on a state, it would be a totalitarian state.

2308
02:06:52,280 --> 02:06:54,960
Speaker 10: And yet everyone seems to think that this is sort

2309
02:06:54,960 --> 02:06:57,600
Speaker 10: of like, you know, and this is this annoytment I've

2310
02:06:57,600 --> 02:07:01,320
Speaker 10: been making about like Trump is that like yeah, this

2311
02:07:01,400 --> 02:07:02,200
Speaker 10: is this is this is.

2312
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:03,840
Speaker 3: What sort of Trump and Elon and like the whole

2313
02:07:03,880 --> 02:07:05,800
Speaker 3: Caudra and and you know, and Petrick, if you want

2314
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:07,680
Speaker 3: to go into the sort of ideologues behind it too,

2315
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:11,320
Speaker 3: this is what people like Peter Thiel want when when

2316
02:07:11,320 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 3: they say run the government like a business, what they

2317
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:15,960
Speaker 3: mean is that they want to like to import the

2318
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:19,360
Speaker 3: sort of like just the pure tyranny of the workplace

2319
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:22,320
Speaker 3: and expand it into the entire political system so that

2320
02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:27,120
Speaker 3: they're they're like sort of pure like totalitarian corporate rule

2321
02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:28,440
Speaker 3: can't be challenged.

2322
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, wasn't it Missollini who declined the

2323
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:31,920
Speaker 1: term the corporate state?

2324
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:36,120
Speaker 3: Probably, although it would not surprise me if it was

2325
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:38,960
Speaker 3: like some other fascist theorists and Wessolini just started saying

2326
02:07:39,000 --> 02:07:43,640
Speaker 3: it because yeah, but yeah, like that's you know, that's

2327
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:47,280
Speaker 3: a substantive thing here. And what this also means is

2328
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:50,240
Speaker 3: that like, even in ways that are sort of hard

2329
02:07:50,240 --> 02:07:53,400
Speaker 3: to see, like a fight over democracy in the workplace,

2330
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:55,839
Speaker 3: right is a is a part of the larger struggle

2331
02:07:55,840 --> 02:07:58,280
Speaker 3: against all of all the things that's happening because if

2332
02:07:58,320 --> 02:08:00,880
Speaker 3: you know, if we're gonna survive this, and if we're

2333
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:03,960
Speaker 3: going to make sure that we don't all live in

2334
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:06,560
Speaker 3: a world where you like, if you say the wrong thing,

2335
02:08:06,600 --> 02:08:09,880
Speaker 3: you can be sent to a prison camp. Democracy, if

2336
02:08:09,880 --> 02:08:11,520
Speaker 3: you want this to survive, is going to have to

2337
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:14,240
Speaker 3: march into like into the layer of the beast. It

2338
02:08:14,320 --> 02:08:17,120
Speaker 3: is going to have to go into the source of

2339
02:08:17,160 --> 02:08:19,720
Speaker 3: this tyranny itself, which is the workplace, and it's going

2340
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:20,720
Speaker 3: to have to crush it there.

2341
02:08:20,960 --> 02:08:24,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I mean, you said it very

2342
02:08:24,600 --> 02:08:28,919
Speaker 1: very aptly there, Like the corporate structure maras the totalitarian structure,

2343
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:34,600
Speaker 1: and you know, not only does like fighting the corporate

2344
02:08:34,640 --> 02:08:38,840
Speaker 1: structure at the level of labor makes sense in that right,

2345
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:45,000
Speaker 1: labor is what enables the flow of capital that sustains

2346
02:08:45,400 --> 02:08:49,560
Speaker 1: the totalitarian state. But also, like you said, you're you're

2347
02:08:50,120 --> 02:08:55,920
Speaker 1: you're addressing the structure in its I don't know, I

2348
02:08:55,920 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 1: almost think of it as like the you know, like

2349
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:02,560
Speaker 1: Grendel's mother and the then or whatever, and like, you know,

2350
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:08,080
Speaker 1: the the authoritarian thing is like it's like Grendel maybe,

2351
02:09:08,120 --> 02:09:13,920
Speaker 1: and like Grendel's mother is like this capitalist, hierarchical structure. Yeah,

2352
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, you take it on with an insistence on

2353
02:09:16,920 --> 02:09:22,960
Speaker 1: workplace democracy as kind of libby as that's that sounds.

2354
02:09:24,360 --> 02:09:28,640
Speaker 3: Okay, speaking speaking speaking of capitalist will tellitariotism. Here are

2355
02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:30,840
Speaker 3: the ads that we are required to run by.

2356
02:09:30,800 --> 02:09:57,040
Speaker 13: Our let's hear him.

2357
02:09:45,360 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 3: And we are back. So let's get back a little

2358
02:09:52,160 --> 02:09:55,560
Speaker 3: bit towards the more concrete parts of the union though

2359
02:09:55,600 --> 02:09:57,360
Speaker 3: I do have more to say eventually at some point

2360
02:09:57,400 --> 02:10:00,360
Speaker 3: about the way that sort of labor liberalism co opted

2361
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:03,800
Speaker 3: democracy in the workplace from like you know, the idea

2362
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 3: the old sort of like anarchist idea of workers control. Right,

2363
02:10:08,360 --> 02:10:10,480
Speaker 3: But okay, so one thing I wanted to talk about

2364
02:10:10,520 --> 02:10:12,240
Speaker 3: before we sort of get into the more formal stuff

2365
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:15,440
Speaker 3: about about the strike is I was I'm really interested

2366
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:19,280
Speaker 3: to hear you talk about what the process of kind

2367
02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:21,720
Speaker 3: of onboarding you to get more involved in the union is,

2368
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:26,320
Speaker 3: because this is something that like, okay, every functional union

2369
02:10:26,400 --> 02:10:29,360
Speaker 3: wants to do this, Like if your union is not

2370
02:10:29,560 --> 02:10:33,160
Speaker 3: trying to bring people like its members like more to

2371
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:35,120
Speaker 3: get more involved in the union and become more of

2372
02:10:35,160 --> 02:10:38,240
Speaker 3: the people becoming like core organizers and becoming you know,

2373
02:10:38,280 --> 02:10:39,720
Speaker 3: like they're the people who are doing your bargain and

2374
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:43,080
Speaker 3: people are doing anything like your union is, there's weird

2375
02:10:43,120 --> 02:10:45,080
Speaker 3: shit about it and you should probably like be looking

2376
02:10:45,120 --> 02:10:48,440
Speaker 3: into that, but it's pretty hard. So, yeah, can can

2377
02:10:48,480 --> 02:10:50,320
Speaker 3: you talk a bit about the process of like how

2378
02:10:50,400 --> 02:10:52,960
Speaker 3: you were brought in and what sort of worked and

2379
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:53,440
Speaker 3: what didn't.

2380
02:10:54,440 --> 02:10:59,880
Speaker 1: Well, I think ultimately, like the easiest thing is a

2381
02:11:01,520 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 1: sort of ramping up degree of like responsibility within the organization. Right, So,

2382
02:11:06,920 --> 02:11:10,000
Speaker 1: like at the start, I would come to some of

2383
02:11:10,000 --> 02:11:12,280
Speaker 1: the meetings, I would miss some of them. I would

2384
02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:15,360
Speaker 1: be like, Oh, I'm fucking so busy with whatever is

2385
02:11:15,400 --> 02:11:18,240
Speaker 1: going on in my life. And you know, I was

2386
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:21,640
Speaker 1: supportive and sort of involved, but you know, I wasn't

2387
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:24,120
Speaker 1: like I mean, I ston wasn't doing things like this.

2388
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:32,680
Speaker 1: And you know, eventually one we like kind of persisted

2389
02:11:32,720 --> 02:11:37,600
Speaker 1: as a union over a longer period of time, the

2390
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:43,120
Speaker 1: necessity of involvement became more like obvious to me, right,

2391
02:11:43,880 --> 02:11:48,120
Speaker 1: And that's that's a hard ask. You know, Like you're organizing,

2392
02:11:48,920 --> 02:11:52,280
Speaker 1: you want momentum and you want yeah, you want to

2393
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:53,880
Speaker 1: be able to change your conditions for the better as

2394
02:11:53,880 --> 02:11:59,440
Speaker 1: soon as possible. Yeah, And with with urban or you know,

2395
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:03,760
Speaker 1: lots of workplaces that need unionization have high turnover, right,

2396
02:12:04,280 --> 02:12:08,240
Speaker 1: and Urban Ore is no different. And so I saw,

2397
02:12:08,320 --> 02:12:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, like some of the more committed elements of

2398
02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:17,880
Speaker 1: the bargaining unit be fired or quit or whatever, and

2399
02:12:18,720 --> 02:12:21,720
Speaker 1: you know they would be replaced with other people and

2400
02:12:21,800 --> 02:12:23,760
Speaker 1: you have to begin the work of organizing over again.

2401
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:25,120
Speaker 1: And with some of them you succeed with something that

2402
02:12:25,160 --> 02:12:28,760
Speaker 1: you don't, you know, you have different dynamics. I feel

2403
02:12:28,800 --> 02:12:31,600
Speaker 1: like the hiring procedures may have changed a little bit

2404
02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:35,240
Speaker 1: afteryone our election, but you know, I can't say that

2405
02:12:35,320 --> 02:12:39,360
Speaker 1: for certain. So the sort of like necessity of like

2406
02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 1: keeping that like flame going, especially after we had won

2407
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:45,840
Speaker 1: the election we were in contract bargain for a long

2408
02:12:45,840 --> 02:12:49,280
Speaker 1: period of time, made me feel like a sort of

2409
02:12:49,320 --> 02:12:51,400
Speaker 1: sense of like I need to be more active in

2410
02:12:51,440 --> 02:12:56,520
Speaker 1: this because like this is an important struggle and like, yeah,

2411
02:12:56,680 --> 02:12:59,480
Speaker 1: I see our like main organizers taking on like a

2412
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:04,760
Speaker 1: fuck load of work and like needing more voices at

2413
02:13:04,760 --> 02:13:08,720
Speaker 1: the table, needing more more uh, needing more people to

2414
02:13:08,720 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 1: be more involved. And so like I, you know, volunteered

2415
02:13:14,200 --> 02:13:18,960
Speaker 1: to run for treasure. That was the only candidate. Yeah,

2416
02:13:19,360 --> 02:13:21,320
Speaker 1: but theoretically I could have been voted down. They could

2417
02:13:21,320 --> 02:13:25,800
Speaker 1: have been like I don't know about fessor, And you know,

2418
02:13:26,040 --> 02:13:30,760
Speaker 1: like ended up having like a little bit more direct responsibilities.

2419
02:13:30,840 --> 02:13:33,480
Speaker 1: Like I was like receiving some of the donations to

2420
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:35,840
Speaker 1: our strike phone once we started fundraising for the strike

2421
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:37,640
Speaker 1: and to keep track of those and you know, put

2422
02:13:37,680 --> 02:13:40,600
Speaker 1: some special bank account and then eventually take that money,

2423
02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:43,480
Speaker 1: get it to like the the i w W branch,

2424
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 1: uh hand it hand a big check to dono that

2425
02:13:49,760 --> 02:13:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And just like having like little things

2426
02:13:53,320 --> 02:13:57,920
Speaker 1: to be doing, like yeah, spurs involvement other people, you know,

2427
02:13:58,600 --> 02:14:02,680
Speaker 1: became responsible for like parts of social media outreach, graphics,

2428
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:08,000
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and also like sort of I guess,

2429
02:14:08,720 --> 02:14:14,200
Speaker 1: giving people the opportunity to leverage their individual connections within

2430
02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:17,000
Speaker 1: the work because every workplace is like clicks and groups

2431
02:14:17,000 --> 02:14:21,040
Speaker 1: and subgroups and all that to leverage those connections in

2432
02:14:21,280 --> 02:14:26,320
Speaker 1: like service of bettering everyone's conditions. So like to a

2433
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:28,840
Speaker 1: certain degree, I've I've been like important as like an

2434
02:14:28,960 --> 02:14:32,320
Speaker 1: envoid to my particular department because it's our job takes

2435
02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:34,160
Speaker 1: us away from the job site or like from like

2436
02:14:34,200 --> 02:14:36,920
Speaker 1: the main the main work site often and stuff like that,

2437
02:14:37,160 --> 02:14:40,560
Speaker 1: so there's less of a direct avenue for communication there. Ye,

2438
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:44,240
Speaker 1: So I can say that's my experience. Yeah, as far

2439
02:14:44,240 --> 02:14:47,120
Speaker 1: as organizing goes, like, I'm easy. You know, I was

2440
02:14:47,160 --> 02:14:51,760
Speaker 1: already I was already believing in it, and like there

2441
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:56,080
Speaker 1: are others that it have that it's been harder. I

2442
02:14:56,120 --> 02:15:02,400
Speaker 1: will say though, that the strike itself is I mean,

2443
02:15:02,920 --> 02:15:07,560
Speaker 1: a strike is a conflict, and when you're in conflict together,

2444
02:15:08,080 --> 02:15:12,760
Speaker 1: it's an extremely cohering force. Which isn't to say that

2445
02:15:12,840 --> 02:15:15,880
Speaker 1: like necessarily you want your unionization to come to a strike,

2446
02:15:16,560 --> 02:15:20,440
Speaker 1: but perhaps like raising a sort of consciousness of like

2447
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 1: the fact that like you are ultimately like in conflict

2448
02:15:23,520 --> 02:15:26,240
Speaker 1: with the boss. The boss doesn't want you to unionize.

2449
02:15:26,800 --> 02:15:29,480
Speaker 1: The boss doesn't want you to force concessions out of them,

2450
02:15:29,800 --> 02:15:34,440
Speaker 1: and that like, as a union we are taking on

2451
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:39,600
Speaker 1: this like responsibility to look after each other's interests and

2452
02:15:39,640 --> 02:15:42,680
Speaker 1: to like support each other like tangibly in terms of

2453
02:15:42,680 --> 02:15:45,040
Speaker 1: like what we do, and also intangibly in terms of

2454
02:15:45,040 --> 02:15:47,960
Speaker 1: like the kind of conversations we have around like morale

2455
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 1: planning and stuff like that, you know, to succeed together.

2456
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:56,200
Speaker 1: I think those are like really potent cohering forces. And

2457
02:15:57,040 --> 02:16:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, it helps to have a good you know,

2458
02:16:00,720 --> 02:16:04,360
Speaker 1: the boss is the best organizer and at urban or

2459
02:16:04,560 --> 02:16:09,680
Speaker 1: it's you don't go along without coming head to head

2460
02:16:09,720 --> 02:16:15,800
Speaker 1: with like the with with conflict with ownership or with

2461
02:16:15,920 --> 02:16:21,000
Speaker 1: like ownership through the mediator of management. Like although like

2462
02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:27,320
Speaker 1: support for the union might be divided a bit at

2463
02:16:27,320 --> 02:16:31,720
Speaker 1: the workplace, one thing that's pretty universal is like frustration

2464
02:16:31,800 --> 02:16:32,440
Speaker 1: with ownership.

2465
02:16:32,879 --> 02:16:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, okay, speaking of speaking of a frustration with ownership,

2466
02:16:36,720 --> 02:16:38,480
Speaker 3: it is time for us to go to ads one

2467
02:16:38,560 --> 02:16:39,240
Speaker 3: last time.

2468
02:16:39,680 --> 02:16:40,560
Speaker 1: And that beautiful.

2469
02:16:40,640 --> 02:16:43,320
Speaker 3: But then africames back strike strike, strike, strike.

2470
02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 18: Strike, strike, strike, just after this message, Okay, we are

2471
02:16:58,120 --> 02:17:00,280
Speaker 18: back from a bunch of people who almost as we

2472
02:17:00,360 --> 02:17:01,640
Speaker 18: do not want you to go on strike.

2473
02:17:01,760 --> 02:17:05,879
Speaker 3: But yeah, so let's let's let's let's get into the

2474
02:17:06,000 --> 02:17:11,240
Speaker 3: process of how you actually organize a strike. Yeah, let's

2475
02:17:11,240 --> 02:17:14,480
Speaker 3: start from just like the very beginning, one of the

2476
02:17:14,520 --> 02:17:16,959
Speaker 3: kinds of things that were happening that you know, made

2477
02:17:16,959 --> 02:17:18,440
Speaker 3: people think that you needed to do this in the

2478
02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:18,960
Speaker 3: first place.

2479
02:17:19,600 --> 02:17:25,320
Speaker 1: So the strike itself is a result specifically, like, this

2480
02:17:25,360 --> 02:17:31,039
Speaker 1: is a ULP strike, So it's in response to something

2481
02:17:31,040 --> 02:17:34,199
Speaker 1: that falls under the category of unfairly or practice according

2482
02:17:34,240 --> 02:17:37,640
Speaker 1: to the National Labor Relations Act, And it's you know,

2483
02:17:38,240 --> 02:17:41,760
Speaker 1: backed up by charges filed with the board as opposed

2484
02:17:41,800 --> 02:17:44,400
Speaker 1: to like what's called an economic strike, which is a

2485
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:49,359
Speaker 1: strike that is specifically about economic issues at the workplace.

2486
02:17:49,920 --> 02:17:53,240
Speaker 1: So the specific ulp that's being cited for our strike

2487
02:17:53,440 --> 02:17:56,760
Speaker 1: is bad faith bargaining. And for us, what that's looked

2488
02:17:56,800 --> 02:18:03,959
Speaker 1: like is two years of completely stalled negotiations where we

2489
02:18:04,760 --> 02:18:07,920
Speaker 1: are basically being faced with a take it or leave

2490
02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 1: it offer of the status quo in the vast majority

2491
02:18:11,920 --> 02:18:17,959
Speaker 1: of our proposals. Yeah, bargaining is very, very slow, and

2492
02:18:19,520 --> 02:18:25,400
Speaker 1: ownership has held tightly to the offense at us having

2493
02:18:25,480 --> 02:18:29,199
Speaker 1: unionized it all, which to my understanding is pretty typical

2494
02:18:29,200 --> 02:18:33,480
Speaker 1: of small workplaces. The ownership takes it very personally, and

2495
02:18:34,480 --> 02:18:39,720
Speaker 1: that personal feeling of the trail or whatever becomes like

2496
02:18:39,760 --> 02:18:42,680
Speaker 1: a stumbling block in the negotiation process. I know that

2497
02:18:42,760 --> 02:18:45,920
Speaker 1: was the case with mos Another's bookshop in Berkeley that

2498
02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:51,080
Speaker 1: also unionized with the AWW. So, you know, we've had

2499
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:54,280
Speaker 1: our whole proposal on ownership's table for a year and

2500
02:18:54,320 --> 02:18:58,520
Speaker 1: a half now. We had started with a bargaining proposal.

2501
02:18:58,560 --> 02:19:02,199
Speaker 1: By proposal, they said, well, how can we possibly agree

2502
02:19:02,240 --> 02:19:05,040
Speaker 1: to any of this without understanding the full context, especially

2503
02:19:05,120 --> 02:19:09,000
Speaker 1: the economic context, And so we gave them a full

2504
02:19:09,040 --> 02:19:11,680
Speaker 1: proposal and they said, oh my god, how do you

2505
02:19:11,680 --> 02:19:14,320
Speaker 1: expect us to read all of this in time to bargain?

2506
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:17,560
Speaker 1: This is way too much. How we're going to evaluate

2507
02:19:17,600 --> 02:19:19,160
Speaker 1: this all? Oh my god, we got to do a

2508
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:25,520
Speaker 1: proposal by proposal. So it's been really unclear to us

2509
02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:28,640
Speaker 1: if ownership has even actually like read the entirety of

2510
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:32,280
Speaker 1: our collective bargaining agreement that we put on their desk.

2511
02:19:32,879 --> 02:19:35,840
Speaker 1: I know that in the past lawyers have the lawyers

2512
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:39,280
Speaker 1: have said things like, oh my, my eyes glazed over

2513
02:19:39,320 --> 02:19:41,280
Speaker 1: when I read your email, So I missed such and

2514
02:19:41,320 --> 02:19:42,320
Speaker 1: such part of it.

2515
02:19:42,320 --> 02:19:45,760
Speaker 3: It's literally your job contract.

2516
02:19:46,240 --> 02:19:47,320
Speaker 9: You have one job.

2517
02:19:48,400 --> 02:19:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think like a lawyer would have like

2518
02:19:50,320 --> 02:19:52,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more of like Jesus, like a tweet

2519
02:19:52,959 --> 02:19:54,800
Speaker 1: tweet sized reading capacity.

2520
02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:57,400
Speaker 3: But well they give any one law degrees.

2521
02:19:57,560 --> 02:20:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like ownerships saying like well, I just thought

2522
02:20:02,720 --> 02:20:04,840
Speaker 1: it was so ridiculous. I didn't fel they need to

2523
02:20:04,840 --> 02:20:07,240
Speaker 1: read all of it. Stuff like that. Oh my god,

2524
02:20:07,680 --> 02:20:09,680
Speaker 1: does these readers bad faith bargaining?

2525
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:15,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's bad by like the standards of like normal,

2526
02:20:15,480 --> 02:20:17,720
Speaker 3: it takes two years to do a fucking contract because

2527
02:20:17,720 --> 02:20:22,480
Speaker 3: they're just not doing shit, and like, good lord, usually.

2528
02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:25,160
Speaker 1: In those long contract negotiations by two years at least,

2529
02:20:25,160 --> 02:20:26,920
Speaker 1: there's like been some progress.

2530
02:20:27,000 --> 02:20:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that they've read the proposals, Like yes, okay,

2531
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:34,520
Speaker 3: will will will your boss show up to your meeting

2532
02:20:34,560 --> 02:20:36,240
Speaker 3: an hour and a half late because they didn't bother

2533
02:20:36,280 --> 02:20:38,160
Speaker 3: to look through the proposals until literally right at the

2534
02:20:38,160 --> 02:20:40,120
Speaker 3: time the meeting was going to start. Yes, but will

2535
02:20:40,120 --> 02:20:40,920
Speaker 3: they have done it?

2536
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:47,160
Speaker 1: Usually yes, m m yeah. And in fact, in the

2537
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:51,039
Speaker 1: sort of company propaganda where they're claiming that this like

2538
02:20:51,080 --> 02:20:54,160
Speaker 1: bad faith bargaining charge has no grounds, they're like ownership

2539
02:20:54,160 --> 02:20:57,959
Speaker 1: has come to like twenty five to thirty bargaining sessions,

2540
02:20:58,440 --> 02:21:00,560
Speaker 1: neglecting to mention there events we're in the range of

2541
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:07,320
Speaker 1: like fifty to sixty, And of course maybe they've shown

2542
02:21:07,360 --> 02:21:08,520
Speaker 1: that more than half.

2543
02:21:08,600 --> 02:21:11,360
Speaker 7: I don't want to be libelous, but yeah, but still

2544
02:21:11,400 --> 02:21:14,359
Speaker 7: like if at the point of which you are failing

2545
02:21:14,400 --> 02:21:16,879
Speaker 7: to show up for any bargaining session, I think you

2546
02:21:16,920 --> 02:21:18,840
Speaker 7: can like, look, I have.

2547
02:21:18,879 --> 02:21:21,200
Speaker 3: Always advocated that if that, if that advantagement doesn't show

2548
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:22,720
Speaker 3: up to a bargaining session, you should just be allowed

2549
02:21:22,720 --> 02:21:25,200
Speaker 3: to take the company, because clearly they're not serious about it.

2550
02:21:25,480 --> 02:21:29,320
Speaker 1: But hey, you know they've been talking about a worker

2551
02:21:29,360 --> 02:21:35,280
Speaker 1: cup for twenty years, not performance reforms, but yeah, so

2552
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:38,360
Speaker 1: those kind of things. And then like finally, like one

2553
02:21:38,360 --> 02:21:42,440
Speaker 1: of the bigger precipitating factors is, like we've been trying

2554
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:46,600
Speaker 1: to bargain over economics, ownership has implied a lot of

2555
02:21:46,680 --> 02:21:50,320
Speaker 1: times that they cannot afford to pay what we're asking.

2556
02:21:51,440 --> 02:21:54,000
Speaker 1: They say it'll ruin the company, they say a company

2557
02:21:54,040 --> 02:21:56,480
Speaker 1: will go bankrupt, they say it's unsustainable, they say this

2558
02:21:56,520 --> 02:21:58,320
Speaker 1: and that, and then when they get to the table,

2559
02:21:58,320 --> 02:22:00,160
Speaker 1: they say, we have never and will never are your

2560
02:22:00,200 --> 02:22:03,360
Speaker 1: inability to pay. Because the thing is is that to

2561
02:22:03,400 --> 02:22:08,440
Speaker 1: say inability to pay right, it obligates you to furnish

2562
02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:11,840
Speaker 1: information to prove that, and they, for whatever reason do

2563
02:22:11,959 --> 02:22:16,520
Speaker 1: not want. Wow, I wonder why British financial information. So

2564
02:22:17,440 --> 02:22:19,400
Speaker 1: these have been some of the sticking points, and that's

2565
02:22:19,400 --> 02:22:21,800
Speaker 1: why we've been out on the picky line for about

2566
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:24,640
Speaker 1: three weeks now, still waiting for them to come to

2567
02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:25,080
Speaker 1: the table.

2568
02:22:25,320 --> 02:22:28,160
Speaker 3: God damn it. So okay, let's let's talk about like

2569
02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:31,720
Speaker 3: the just sort of the process of like how the

2570
02:22:31,760 --> 02:22:34,680
Speaker 3: discussions went for doing this, What did those sort of

2571
02:22:34,720 --> 02:22:36,360
Speaker 3: look like, and how did how did you sort of

2572
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 3: you know, just like plant plan this thing out.

2573
02:22:38,920 --> 02:22:41,200
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the process towards like deciding that I

2574
02:22:41,240 --> 02:22:43,720
Speaker 1: needed to come to a strike was like, you know

2575
02:22:43,800 --> 02:22:47,240
Speaker 1: that that is a sort of thing that builds over

2576
02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:49,680
Speaker 1: a long period of time. You know, you see ownership

2577
02:22:49,720 --> 02:22:52,920
Speaker 1: doing bad faith brackening. You go, what more conciliatory approaches

2578
02:22:52,959 --> 02:22:55,720
Speaker 1: can we take first? You know, can we try this?

2579
02:22:56,120 --> 02:22:58,320
Speaker 1: Can we try offering this to make you know, can

2580
02:22:58,360 --> 02:23:01,560
Speaker 1: we try this display of good faith? And we offered

2581
02:23:01,600 --> 02:23:06,000
Speaker 1: this compromise. One of the things that was a big

2582
02:23:06,040 --> 02:23:11,000
Speaker 1: part was of some of the not exactly contract related discussions,

2583
02:23:11,000 --> 02:23:13,640
Speaker 1: but like has been talking for a long time about

2584
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:15,959
Speaker 1: a co op transition that it's never happened. It's been

2585
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:20,240
Speaker 1: twenty years, and you know, now that we've unionized, they're

2586
02:23:20,240 --> 02:23:22,440
Speaker 1: like our people who we were talking to about doing

2587
02:23:22,440 --> 02:23:24,880
Speaker 1: the co op thing, they don't work with unions and

2588
02:23:24,959 --> 02:23:26,160
Speaker 1: so the only way that they were going to be

2589
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:28,160
Speaker 1: a co op is if the union goes away. And

2590
02:23:28,200 --> 02:23:31,160
Speaker 1: so in response to that, we said, well, we're totally

2591
02:23:31,160 --> 02:23:34,560
Speaker 1: opened to a transition to a co op that involves

2592
02:23:34,600 --> 02:23:37,760
Speaker 1: the union, and here is such and such organization. It

2593
02:23:37,879 --> 02:23:40,039
Speaker 1: was our lead negotiator who actually provide the information some

2594
02:23:40,240 --> 02:23:42,240
Speaker 1: or the name of the organization, but you know, here's

2595
02:23:42,240 --> 02:23:46,640
Speaker 1: such and such organization that actually specifically deals with union

2596
02:23:47,280 --> 02:23:54,720
Speaker 1: co op workplace transitions. Was not received with interest. So

2597
02:23:54,760 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 1: it's like your massive catalogue of bad faith bargaining and

2598
02:24:00,080 --> 02:24:02,120
Speaker 1: end up in your strategy discussions with the whole unit

2599
02:24:02,600 --> 02:24:06,520
Speaker 1: testing the wires of like when is too much? What's

2600
02:24:06,560 --> 02:24:09,560
Speaker 1: our red line that we need to take more direct action?

2601
02:24:10,520 --> 02:24:14,840
Speaker 1: And what that began with for us was first, well,

2602
02:24:15,360 --> 02:24:16,640
Speaker 1: if we're going to have if we're going to have

2603
02:24:16,640 --> 02:24:21,320
Speaker 1: a strike, we need funds for it. The IWW is

2604
02:24:21,959 --> 02:24:26,160
Speaker 1: an organization that affords its unions a lot of freedom

2605
02:24:26,280 --> 02:24:30,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of mutual support and solidarity, is not

2606
02:24:30,560 --> 02:24:36,200
Speaker 1: an organization with a huge amount of money. And so

2607
02:24:36,920 --> 02:24:40,080
Speaker 1: we did start with trying to get like a sense

2608
02:24:40,120 --> 02:24:42,840
Speaker 1: of like what we could get from you know, the

2609
02:24:43,400 --> 02:24:48,400
Speaker 1: branches reserve, and we moved on from that to how

2610
02:24:48,400 --> 02:24:50,240
Speaker 1: we were going to fundraise and stuff like that. So

2611
02:24:50,280 --> 02:24:56,959
Speaker 1: we held informational pickets that had donations, we sold shirts, posters,

2612
02:24:57,000 --> 02:25:00,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. We held like a big strike fundraise. Yeah,

2613
02:25:01,120 --> 02:25:03,680
Speaker 1: I think something around like a month in advance of

2614
02:25:04,400 --> 02:25:06,240
Speaker 1: our or it was maybe like a month and a

2615
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:09,440
Speaker 1: half in advance of our of our strike. We also

2616
02:25:10,120 --> 02:25:13,800
Speaker 1: gave management like a courtesy notice about this so they

2617
02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:16,160
Speaker 1: could pass it on to ownership, saying, hey, we've started

2618
02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:18,720
Speaker 1: a fundraising for a strike in the hopes that like

2619
02:25:19,480 --> 02:25:23,039
Speaker 1: being aware that we're taking active preparations to go on

2620
02:25:23,120 --> 02:25:25,960
Speaker 1: strike would facilitate bargaining.

2621
02:25:26,240 --> 02:25:28,920
Speaker 3: Sometimes it works, I've seen I've seen it before. I've

2622
02:25:28,920 --> 02:25:29,440
Speaker 3: seen it before.

2623
02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:35,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes it works, yeah, and sometimes, you know, sometimes you

2624
02:25:35,240 --> 02:25:39,720
Speaker 1: end up on a podcast talking about how it didn't.

2625
02:25:40,520 --> 02:25:43,080
Speaker 1: You never know what until you try it, You never know.

2626
02:25:44,959 --> 02:25:47,600
Speaker 1: But we did. Yeah, we did give them that sort

2627
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:52,320
Speaker 1: of early warning, and our readiness to strike kind of

2628
02:25:52,360 --> 02:25:54,920
Speaker 1: like depended then on like where we were at in

2629
02:25:54,959 --> 02:25:58,279
Speaker 1: the fundraising process. So we continue to sort of listening donations,

2630
02:25:58,320 --> 02:26:01,600
Speaker 1: reaching out to various organizations in the area that are,

2631
02:26:01,680 --> 02:26:05,920
Speaker 1: you know, pro labor. You know, we talked to like

2632
02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:09,080
Speaker 1: DSA whenever because you know, they have their like a

2633
02:26:09,720 --> 02:26:16,400
Speaker 1: workplace Organizing committee, yeah walk Yeah, and various other you know, yeah,

2634
02:26:16,680 --> 02:26:20,280
Speaker 1: organizations that are pro labor. And once we got to

2635
02:26:20,320 --> 02:26:24,720
Speaker 1: a point where you felt like we were reasonably like

2636
02:26:25,400 --> 02:26:29,119
Speaker 1: prepared to sustain they open end to strike because that's

2637
02:26:29,160 --> 02:26:31,240
Speaker 1: what we're doing. This is a strike with no set

2638
02:26:31,440 --> 02:26:34,960
Speaker 1: end date. Then we announced our intention to hold a

2639
02:26:34,959 --> 02:26:38,119
Speaker 1: strike vote. We held our strike vote, strike vote passes.

2640
02:26:39,040 --> 02:26:42,119
Speaker 1: The ownership was made aware at the barning session before

2641
02:26:42,440 --> 02:26:46,039
Speaker 1: the strike vote, so it was like the Monday before

2642
02:26:46,280 --> 02:26:48,360
Speaker 1: the strike vote, which is on I think like a Saturday.

2643
02:26:48,920 --> 02:26:52,199
Speaker 1: So in totally it was like around maybe like two

2644
02:26:52,240 --> 02:26:57,880
Speaker 1: weeks in change that they knew like definite possibility past

2645
02:26:57,920 --> 02:27:02,000
Speaker 1: the strike vote. Twelve days later, drike begins with unfortunately

2646
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:05,280
Speaker 1: no bargaining in between. Good lord, Yeah, the whole way.

2647
02:27:05,440 --> 02:27:08,240
Speaker 1: You hope that they'll come to the table. You hope that.

2648
02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:10,480
Speaker 3: They will come to their senses.

2649
02:27:11,000 --> 02:27:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, take take the risks seriously, take the risk seriously.

2650
02:27:15,720 --> 02:27:19,600
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, this is not what's happened here. Yeah, And

2651
02:27:20,280 --> 02:27:23,160
Speaker 1: I think part of that is maybe an age thing. Here,

2652
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:28,320
Speaker 1: ownership is in their eighties, and it pretty consistently held

2653
02:27:28,400 --> 02:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the view that like the union is like a bunch

2654
02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:33,880
Speaker 1: of young people who don't know what the hell they're

2655
02:27:33,879 --> 02:27:39,640
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, even though like the age range

2656
02:27:39,640 --> 02:27:42,320
Speaker 1: of our union spans the age range of the workplace.

2657
02:27:42,360 --> 02:27:46,520
Speaker 1: We've got people in their fifties and forties and thirties

2658
02:27:46,600 --> 02:27:49,480
Speaker 1: and twenties, you know, which is which is of course

2659
02:27:49,520 --> 02:27:54,760
Speaker 1: the problematic group, but yeah, the young radicals. Yeah, so

2660
02:27:54,840 --> 02:27:59,120
Speaker 1: there's there's been this sort of patronizing attitude that I

2661
02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:02,280
Speaker 1: think as a resulted in like a real strategic failure

2662
02:28:02,320 --> 02:28:06,480
Speaker 1: on their part to seriously prepare for the strike or

2663
02:28:07,400 --> 02:28:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, bargain to avoid it. Yeah.

2664
02:28:10,240 --> 02:28:12,080
Speaker 3: One more fundraising thing that I just I just want

2665
02:28:12,080 --> 02:28:14,080
Speaker 3: to mention this for people, if you, if you, if

2666
02:28:14,080 --> 02:28:15,680
Speaker 3: you're trying to fundraise for your own things, something that's

2667
02:28:15,680 --> 02:28:17,320
Speaker 3: actually we've had a lot of success with up in

2668
02:28:17,360 --> 02:28:21,080
Speaker 3: Portland is getting bands to do benefit shows. So like,

2669
02:28:21,200 --> 02:28:23,960
Speaker 3: because it's Portland, right, Like, the local hardcore scene has

2670
02:28:24,000 --> 02:28:26,720
Speaker 3: a lot of bands that you know, are just supportive

2671
02:28:26,720 --> 02:28:28,680
Speaker 3: of stuff, and we've do not this for a whole

2672
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:31,240
Speaker 3: bunch of different causes, and this is this this this

2673
02:28:31,400 --> 02:28:32,840
Speaker 3: can also be a good way to just sort of

2674
02:28:32,959 --> 02:28:35,320
Speaker 3: do fundraising things that are fun and also raise morale

2675
02:28:35,400 --> 02:28:37,959
Speaker 3: because yeah, you're doing the show.

2676
02:28:38,440 --> 02:28:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah I was, I was. I was hoping to have

2677
02:28:41,000 --> 02:28:44,680
Speaker 1: that be more of a thing with our fundraiser, but yeah.

2678
02:28:44,560 --> 02:28:46,400
Speaker 3: It canna be hard to organize sometimes.

2679
02:28:46,480 --> 02:28:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the people I knew were didn't get quite the

2680
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:51,200
Speaker 1: response I was hoping from the community.

2681
02:28:51,680 --> 02:28:57,600
Speaker 3: If you are hardcore band. If you are abandon Berkeley,

2682
02:28:58,040 --> 02:28:58,840
Speaker 3: there's still.

2683
02:28:58,680 --> 02:29:04,039
Speaker 1: Time that is that is totally a good option. What

2684
02:29:04,160 --> 02:29:06,039
Speaker 1: we did, we ended up doing that. There was music,

2685
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:09,240
Speaker 1: but it's also like one of our organizers is really

2686
02:29:09,240 --> 02:29:12,800
Speaker 1: into cooking. You like, did like a barbecue thing. Yeah,

2687
02:29:13,000 --> 02:29:17,600
Speaker 1: sold food stuff like that and had a raffle. A

2688
02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:20,320
Speaker 1: raffle is a great way to fundraise for us. We

2689
02:29:20,400 --> 02:29:26,640
Speaker 1: like raffled off like stuff we have. But honestly, you

2690
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:29,440
Speaker 1: can even do like a straight monetary raffle is still

2691
02:29:29,480 --> 02:29:32,959
Speaker 1: a great fundraising tool, you know, where everyone puts in money,

2692
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:35,879
Speaker 1: the winner, the top freet winners or whatever get like

2693
02:29:35,879 --> 02:29:37,680
Speaker 1: a certain percentage like the total pool and the rest

2694
02:29:37,720 --> 02:29:41,240
Speaker 1: of the pool. Is is a to be cause it's

2695
02:29:41,320 --> 02:29:43,280
Speaker 1: really simple, really effective.

2696
02:29:43,800 --> 02:29:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a reason it's not good, but there is

2697
02:29:46,800 --> 02:29:48,720
Speaker 3: a reason why a whole bunch of state education budget

2698
02:29:48,760 --> 02:29:50,119
Speaker 3: are footed are footed by the lattery.

2699
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:54,199
Speaker 1: It does work and where the people love to gamble

2700
02:29:54,560 --> 02:29:59,000
Speaker 1: much better. Yeah, he says.

2701
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:03,320
Speaker 3: I be turned off her lunch her path of exile

2702
02:30:03,360 --> 02:30:05,560
Speaker 3: to lunch break to come to this interview.

2703
02:30:07,080 --> 02:30:08,000
Speaker 1: How such cases.

2704
02:30:08,520 --> 02:30:10,360
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's let's speaking of I guess this is

2705
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:12,400
Speaker 3: something that has been tied into sort of all and

2706
02:30:12,440 --> 02:30:15,000
Speaker 3: saying here, but yeah, let's talk about you know, sort

2707
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:17,840
Speaker 3: of maintaining the strike when it starts to sort of Yeah,

2708
02:30:17,879 --> 02:30:20,120
Speaker 3: what have been the processes of like keeping morale up

2709
02:30:20,120 --> 02:30:21,320
Speaker 3: and keeping people engaged?

2710
02:30:21,400 --> 02:30:25,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, I mean definitely, when you go into

2711
02:30:25,840 --> 02:30:30,240
Speaker 1: a strike, you want to go in with a militant

2712
02:30:30,280 --> 02:30:32,480
Speaker 1: core group. You want to basically be sure that everyone

2713
02:30:32,560 --> 02:30:36,560
Speaker 1: is committed to holding the line until a collective decision

2714
02:30:36,879 --> 02:30:40,200
Speaker 1: is made. Otherwise you don't want people like peeling off.

2715
02:30:40,240 --> 02:30:44,000
Speaker 1: That's really bad pr for your strike. Yeah yeah, and

2716
02:30:44,040 --> 02:30:48,320
Speaker 1: like the bosses will grab on that. So like for instance,

2717
02:30:48,400 --> 02:30:51,560
Speaker 1: like you know, we have some people who are respecting

2718
02:30:51,560 --> 02:30:54,400
Speaker 1: our picket line but chose not to pick it with us,

2719
02:30:54,640 --> 02:30:57,440
Speaker 1: which is fine as far as I'm concerned. But the

2720
02:30:57,520 --> 02:30:59,840
Speaker 1: issue with that PR wise is that now the boss

2721
02:30:59,920 --> 02:31:02,880
Speaker 1: is are saying and they're like tallying up of who's

2722
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:05,760
Speaker 1: working and who's not working. They're counting them as working.

2723
02:31:06,520 --> 02:31:10,200
Speaker 1: You know, they're like, oh, it's only whatever they've been

2724
02:31:10,240 --> 02:31:13,920
Speaker 1: saying eight people. I think it's more nine or ten

2725
02:31:14,320 --> 02:31:16,720
Speaker 1: we're on the picket line. But the rest is the

2726
02:31:16,720 --> 02:31:19,200
Speaker 1: rest of the employees are working. They count themselves as

2727
02:31:19,200 --> 02:31:24,280
Speaker 1: employees in that count of course, and they count these

2728
02:31:24,600 --> 02:31:27,320
Speaker 1: these people who are not crossing the picket line but

2729
02:31:27,400 --> 02:31:30,280
Speaker 1: not on it also as among that count of the

2730
02:31:30,280 --> 02:31:34,240
Speaker 1: rest of the employees they are working what and they've

2731
02:31:34,240 --> 02:31:37,119
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to really inflate that count because in

2732
02:31:37,160 --> 02:31:41,440
Speaker 1: a sort of you know, classic move. Really all the

2733
02:31:41,480 --> 02:31:43,879
Speaker 1: moves are classic. You know, you read your organizing books

2734
02:31:43,920 --> 02:31:49,120
Speaker 1: and you're like, can it happen here? It does? So

2735
02:31:49,200 --> 02:31:51,720
Speaker 1: like we got a lot of new assistant managers after

2736
02:31:51,760 --> 02:31:55,119
Speaker 1: we want our election, so right now, like the composition

2737
02:31:55,160 --> 02:31:58,680
Speaker 1: of the workplace right got thirty four people fifteen managers.

2738
02:31:58,920 --> 02:32:01,440
Speaker 3: I really I wonder when we're going to see the

2739
02:32:01,520 --> 02:32:04,600
Speaker 3: day where you have companies that have six like non

2740
02:32:04,680 --> 02:32:08,280
Speaker 3: managers and fifty five managers. Like I feel like we're

2741
02:32:08,560 --> 02:32:09,320
Speaker 3: not that far out.

2742
02:32:09,400 --> 02:32:11,560
Speaker 1: Well, we're leading the charge here. We have a department

2743
02:32:11,560 --> 02:32:15,480
Speaker 1: that's two people a manager and assistant manager. Assistant manager

2744
02:32:15,560 --> 02:32:25,000
Speaker 1: managing god. So yeah, you know they're they're they've had

2745
02:32:25,040 --> 02:32:28,560
Speaker 1: these particular angles to you know, sort of do their

2746
02:32:28,560 --> 02:32:32,640
Speaker 1: propaganda from. And I mean, honestly, I think a big

2747
02:32:32,680 --> 02:32:36,800
Speaker 1: part of again, the boss is the best organizer, and

2748
02:32:36,920 --> 02:32:39,080
Speaker 1: like a thing that keeps you committed on the line

2749
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:41,920
Speaker 1: is like reading all this bullshit they say about you

2750
02:32:43,000 --> 02:32:45,200
Speaker 1: and knowing otherwise and being able to talk to each

2751
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:47,440
Speaker 1: other and be like have you seen this? Isn't this crazy?

2752
02:32:47,760 --> 02:32:52,040
Speaker 1: Like what the hell? Yeah? Also, you know is uh,

2753
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:56,880
Speaker 1: this is where the sort of like seeds of organizing

2754
02:32:57,480 --> 02:32:59,240
Speaker 1: all the way that you start all the way back

2755
02:32:59,240 --> 02:33:02,200
Speaker 1: at the beginning of your union campaign become you know,

2756
02:33:02,200 --> 02:33:04,240
Speaker 1: you show themselves is like really important again because like

2757
02:33:04,560 --> 02:33:07,440
Speaker 1: the start right, anyone will tell you is it's like

2758
02:33:07,440 --> 02:33:10,480
Speaker 1: getting to know people, like being like, you know, being

2759
02:33:10,560 --> 02:33:13,120
Speaker 1: on like a hey, how's it going kind of level,

2760
02:33:13,240 --> 02:33:16,879
Speaker 1: you know, and having like a personal rapport with the

2761
02:33:16,879 --> 02:33:21,080
Speaker 1: people you're on the line with is vital just in

2762
02:33:21,120 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 1: the sense that you know, obviously like you know each other,

2763
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:24,760
Speaker 1: you're sort of friends, You're going to be more likely

2764
02:33:24,760 --> 02:33:28,080
Speaker 1: to stick up for each other. But also like you're

2765
02:33:28,120 --> 02:33:31,520
Speaker 1: out there nine hours walking in a circle with these people, Yeah,

2766
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:34,279
Speaker 1: you know, you got to you got to have positive,

2767
02:33:34,480 --> 02:33:36,959
Speaker 1: strong relationships with them. You want to be able to

2768
02:33:36,959 --> 02:33:39,040
Speaker 1: have the kind of rapport where like you can talk

2769
02:33:39,080 --> 02:33:42,560
Speaker 1: to people about like what they're feeling anxious about, you know,

2770
02:33:42,879 --> 02:33:46,520
Speaker 1: like where they're worried and like the strike strategy, like

2771
02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, you need to have that like trust between

2772
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:51,000
Speaker 1: each other that you can have like an open dialogue

2773
02:33:51,000 --> 02:33:52,920
Speaker 1: about how it feels to be on the picket line,

2774
02:33:53,200 --> 02:33:56,600
Speaker 1: because you're not going to maintain morale if ever, if

2775
02:33:56,680 --> 02:33:59,480
Speaker 1: like everyone feels like they've got things they got a

2776
02:33:59,480 --> 02:34:02,160
Speaker 1: hold in about it, like yeah, there's a room to

2777
02:34:02,160 --> 02:34:05,160
Speaker 1: be like shit, like are they going to close the business?

2778
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:07,240
Speaker 1: Like and what are we going to do? And like

2779
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:09,600
Speaker 1: sort of like talk through that from a from a

2780
02:34:09,640 --> 02:34:12,600
Speaker 1: place beyond like you know, like what you're not letting

2781
02:34:12,600 --> 02:34:15,680
Speaker 1: it speak into a crowd of a million people or whatever.

2782
02:34:15,959 --> 02:34:19,400
Speaker 1: You're just like two people, Yeah, going through a stressful

2783
02:34:19,400 --> 02:34:20,120
Speaker 1: experience together.

2784
02:34:20,800 --> 02:34:22,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and you have to actually grapple with that

2785
02:34:22,800 --> 02:34:25,520
Speaker 3: in a way. That's not the sort of like weird

2786
02:34:25,680 --> 02:34:28,560
Speaker 3: corporate like we had to improve morale things like that's

2787
02:34:28,600 --> 02:34:32,080
Speaker 3: not what that means. It means, like you know, it

2788
02:34:32,120 --> 02:34:36,400
Speaker 3: means actually grappling and engaging with people's feelings how and

2789
02:34:36,520 --> 02:34:39,360
Speaker 3: what they need in a moment and yeah, and their

2790
02:34:39,400 --> 02:34:43,720
Speaker 3: fears and their concerns and yeah, you can't just sort

2791
02:34:43,720 --> 02:34:45,800
Speaker 3: of brush them aside. You have to actually grapple with it.

2792
02:34:45,840 --> 02:34:47,879
Speaker 3: Because that's that's that's what doing this stuff means.

2793
02:34:48,400 --> 02:34:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, having like these authentic conversations with people because

2794
02:34:52,400 --> 02:34:55,280
Speaker 1: like like yeah, that's like a totally great point you

2795
02:34:55,320 --> 02:34:59,640
Speaker 1: bring up there, Like the hr speak, that's the bosses tool,

2796
02:35:00,200 --> 02:35:03,960
Speaker 1: and it's the boss's tool to divide and create disunity.

2797
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:08,240
Speaker 1: So you can't lean on that model for morale within

2798
02:35:08,280 --> 02:35:10,840
Speaker 1: your union. It just creates distrust.

2799
02:35:11,480 --> 02:35:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I've seen that happen with unions

2800
02:35:14,800 --> 02:35:17,280
Speaker 3: where it's like, you guys did not do a good

2801
02:35:17,360 --> 02:35:20,960
Speaker 3: job of like talking to people about this, and like yeah,

2802
02:35:20,959 --> 02:35:23,760
Speaker 3: and it can be really disruptive to attempts to do this.

2803
02:35:23,840 --> 02:35:25,720
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, if you do it well,

2804
02:35:26,320 --> 02:35:28,320
Speaker 3: it's like it's the most powerful single thing that you

2805
02:35:28,360 --> 02:35:32,280
Speaker 3: can like possibly do. It's like forging relationships that are

2806
02:35:32,280 --> 02:35:37,680
Speaker 3: based on like the actual experience of having gone through

2807
02:35:37,680 --> 02:35:40,280
Speaker 3: struggle together and having had to like literally had to

2808
02:35:40,280 --> 02:35:42,000
Speaker 3: face your fields on the picket line.

2809
02:35:42,800 --> 02:35:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like ideally, you know, the union is a

2810
02:35:46,640 --> 02:35:48,960
Speaker 1: is a community, and it's a community of interest, right,

2811
02:35:49,040 --> 02:35:53,240
Speaker 1: It's a community of work interest. But it is ideally

2812
02:35:53,280 --> 02:35:57,040
Speaker 1: a community. It's not a family, right, and it's certainly

2813
02:35:57,080 --> 02:35:59,200
Speaker 1: not not not a family in the way that the

2814
02:35:59,240 --> 02:36:02,640
Speaker 1: bosses will type of the workplaces. But it is a community,

2815
02:36:03,040 --> 02:36:05,920
Speaker 1: and it's a community in the way that that an

2816
02:36:05,959 --> 02:36:12,400
Speaker 1: employer's idea of a community is fundamentally like incompatible.

2817
02:36:11,680 --> 02:36:15,360
Speaker 3: With Yeah, there's this this pickI Osto Walt line that

2818
02:36:15,400 --> 02:36:18,400
Speaker 3: I think about a lot from her book in Defensive Fluting,

2819
02:36:18,400 --> 02:36:21,440
Speaker 3: where she talks about how I feel like it was

2820
02:36:21,520 --> 02:36:25,560
Speaker 3: Ferguson that this is about where like the police chiefs

2821
02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:27,240
Speaker 3: talking about the damage to the community, and they keep

2822
02:36:27,240 --> 02:36:31,520
Speaker 3: saying our Walmart. It's like going into a Walmart and

2823
02:36:31,560 --> 02:36:35,120
Speaker 3: buying something is not a community, right, Like, you know,

2824
02:36:35,240 --> 02:36:37,680
Speaker 3: they like that like those those kinds of relations are

2825
02:36:37,760 --> 02:36:41,560
Speaker 3: not actual community relations. But when the boss was talking

2826
02:36:41,560 --> 02:36:43,800
Speaker 3: about community, that's what they mean. They mean like like

2827
02:36:44,160 --> 02:36:48,800
Speaker 3: our collective community Walmart. They mean preserving the relation of

2828
02:36:48,840 --> 02:36:52,400
Speaker 3: extraction that they have. Yeah, and we are, you know,

2829
02:36:52,640 --> 02:36:57,560
Speaker 3: using the same word and reading something literally so radically different.

2830
02:36:57,240 --> 02:37:00,680
Speaker 1: Than that, And you have to make sure you're in

2831
02:37:01,440 --> 02:37:04,640
Speaker 1: the way that you're acting that that radically different meeting

2832
02:37:04,720 --> 02:37:07,520
Speaker 1: is clear. Yeah, And you know, it's funny you bring

2833
02:37:07,520 --> 02:37:10,680
Speaker 1: that up, because that's just bringing to mind, like you

2834
02:37:10,720 --> 02:37:13,520
Speaker 1: see the difference in those attitudes like when you're out

2835
02:37:13,520 --> 02:37:15,800
Speaker 1: there on the picket line, like interact because you know,

2836
02:37:16,160 --> 02:37:18,320
Speaker 1: our picket line a really pivotal part of it because

2837
02:37:18,320 --> 02:37:20,240
Speaker 1: there are so many managers in there that they're able

2838
02:37:20,280 --> 02:37:23,480
Speaker 1: to maintain this, like Skeleton Crew is. The community outreach

2839
02:37:23,560 --> 02:37:26,879
Speaker 1: part is like talking to every single person who's coming

2840
02:37:26,920 --> 02:37:30,000
Speaker 1: up and being like, Hey, how's it going that I've

2841
02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:32,320
Speaker 1: been on strike such and such long? This is what's up.

2842
02:37:32,560 --> 02:37:37,200
Speaker 1: Please don't cross our picket line. And you know, I've noticed.

2843
02:37:37,240 --> 02:37:40,000
Speaker 1: You get this real funny situation where there are the

2844
02:37:40,000 --> 02:37:42,600
Speaker 1: people who are like, I've shopped here for twenty years.

2845
02:37:42,600 --> 02:37:44,120
Speaker 1: You don't know what the hell you're talking about. I

2846
02:37:44,160 --> 02:37:45,920
Speaker 1: don't know you and have to be like, well, I

2847
02:37:46,000 --> 02:37:47,959
Speaker 1: normally at the dump get in the merchandise you're buying.

2848
02:37:48,240 --> 02:37:53,640
Speaker 1: But and who attribute the entire attribute everything they like

2849
02:37:53,760 --> 02:37:56,760
Speaker 1: about the business to the bosses. And then there's the

2850
02:37:56,840 --> 02:38:01,600
Speaker 1: other part of the community that is coming by frequently

2851
02:38:02,120 --> 02:38:04,360
Speaker 1: and like hanging out with us on on on the

2852
02:38:04,360 --> 02:38:06,160
Speaker 1: picket line. You know, I pet the dog and we

2853
02:38:06,280 --> 02:38:08,520
Speaker 1: chat about what's going on. They're like, how's the strike going.

2854
02:38:08,640 --> 02:38:11,120
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, I know it's been rough on

2855
02:38:11,160 --> 02:38:13,000
Speaker 1: you guys. For such and such, and like these people

2856
02:38:13,040 --> 02:38:14,640
Speaker 1: are are are our shoppers too?

2857
02:38:14,760 --> 02:38:14,880
Speaker 3: Right?

2858
02:38:14,959 --> 02:38:19,280
Speaker 1: But they like, yeah, they it highlights that like sort

2859
02:38:19,320 --> 02:38:22,000
Speaker 1: of divide in like what you think of as like

2860
02:38:22,040 --> 02:38:25,640
Speaker 1: community and responsibility your community, because like these people also

2861
02:38:26,040 --> 02:38:30,480
Speaker 1: love urbanor come here all the time, but they recognize that,

2862
02:38:30,640 --> 02:38:34,680
Speaker 1: like it's the workers that urban or that create it

2863
02:38:34,959 --> 02:38:37,920
Speaker 1: every day, you know. Yeah, And it is a company

2864
02:38:37,959 --> 02:38:41,680
Speaker 1: that was like founded by the individual. The individual still

2865
02:38:41,680 --> 02:38:44,160
Speaker 1: owns it. He did found it with his with his

2866
02:38:44,240 --> 02:38:46,640
Speaker 1: labor and all that he did, the labor you know,

2867
02:38:47,120 --> 02:38:48,879
Speaker 1: back when it was you know, only a few people

2868
02:38:48,920 --> 02:38:52,720
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But ultimately, a business, like any

2869
02:38:52,800 --> 02:38:55,959
Speaker 1: sort of social phenomenon, has to be constantly recreated in

2870
02:38:56,040 --> 02:38:56,720
Speaker 1: order to exist.

2871
02:38:56,800 --> 02:38:57,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2872
02:38:57,280 --> 02:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like the people who do the work that

2873
02:38:59,720 --> 02:39:01,680
Speaker 1: makes it it more than just like a room full

2874
02:39:01,680 --> 02:39:05,720
Speaker 1: of garbage rs. And yeah, a lot of a lot

2875
02:39:05,760 --> 02:39:08,879
Speaker 1: of the like regulars recognize that, and a lot of

2876
02:39:08,920 --> 02:39:11,440
Speaker 1: them you know, flip me off as they cross the

2877
02:39:11,440 --> 02:39:12,240
Speaker 1: big line whatever.

2878
02:39:15,720 --> 02:39:17,240
Speaker 3: And I think this is a good place to sort

2879
02:39:17,240 --> 02:39:20,080
Speaker 3: of start coming to a close on this is a

2880
02:39:20,120 --> 02:39:24,080
Speaker 3: fundamental question about what the nature of our society is

2881
02:39:24,120 --> 02:39:27,520
Speaker 3: going to be, right, Like is the fundament mental nature

2882
02:39:27,560 --> 02:39:31,240
Speaker 3: of our society that a community is a bunch of

2883
02:39:31,280 --> 02:39:33,320
Speaker 3: people who buy things, and a bunch of people who

2884
02:39:33,360 --> 02:39:35,280
Speaker 3: make money from you buying things, and who make money

2885
02:39:35,320 --> 02:39:38,959
Speaker 3: from the labor that you do, right, and then take

2886
02:39:39,000 --> 02:39:41,360
Speaker 3: credit for the labor, and take credit both financially for

2887
02:39:41,360 --> 02:39:43,959
Speaker 3: the labor and in public for the labor. Right, is

2888
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:45,920
Speaker 3: that going. Is our society going to just be a

2889
02:39:45,959 --> 02:39:49,160
Speaker 3: bunch of pure commercial relations where a bunch of people

2890
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:51,199
Speaker 3: get very very rich off of the wabor of everyone

2891
02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:53,640
Speaker 3: else in the society and get to rule the mess

2892
02:39:53,640 --> 02:39:56,680
Speaker 3: sort of like these petty tyrant kings. Or is it

2893
02:39:56,720 --> 02:39:59,520
Speaker 3: going to be a society where the people who produce

2894
02:39:59,560 --> 02:40:03,240
Speaker 3: the society control it, right? And that society is a

2895
02:40:03,280 --> 02:40:06,680
Speaker 3: democratic society, is an egalitarian society, is a society where

2896
02:40:06,680 --> 02:40:08,400
Speaker 3: people are free to do the things that they need

2897
02:40:08,440 --> 02:40:12,720
Speaker 3: to do, and people are free to you know, have

2898
02:40:12,760 --> 02:40:15,720
Speaker 3: a life where they can fucking pay for their groceries

2899
02:40:15,800 --> 02:40:17,520
Speaker 3: right where like you know, where where they're whe they're

2900
02:40:17,600 --> 02:40:20,000
Speaker 3: not forced to go to the market for all of

2901
02:40:20,040 --> 02:40:22,960
Speaker 3: the things that they need to live, where you can

2902
02:40:23,000 --> 02:40:26,160
Speaker 3: survive in a way that doesn't involve like subjecting yourself

2903
02:40:26,240 --> 02:40:30,440
Speaker 3: to just a tyrant for like a third of your life.

2904
02:40:30,560 --> 02:40:33,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, where where like the place that you spend like

2905
02:40:33,640 --> 02:40:35,840
Speaker 1: ae a third of your life is a place where

2906
02:40:35,879 --> 02:40:38,280
Speaker 1: you actually have like dignity.

2907
02:40:37,879 --> 02:40:41,879
Speaker 3: Dignity and freedom and where you know, where you don't

2908
02:40:41,879 --> 02:40:43,600
Speaker 3: have to go home at the end of a day

2909
02:40:43,680 --> 02:40:45,960
Speaker 3: of making your boss money worrying about whether you're going

2910
02:40:45,959 --> 02:40:48,720
Speaker 3: to be able to eat or not. And it's and

2911
02:40:48,760 --> 02:40:52,480
Speaker 3: that's also a society that does not involve again at

2912
02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:56,240
Speaker 3: the very highest level, like you getting thrown into prison camps.

2913
02:40:56,640 --> 02:41:00,400
Speaker 3: Mister God hates you and we can do that. We

2914
02:41:00,440 --> 02:41:01,600
Speaker 3: could live with that society.

2915
02:41:01,800 --> 02:41:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the demands are not that crazy. No, And that's

2916
02:41:06,640 --> 02:41:09,680
Speaker 1: like the thing that we've encountered over and over again,

2917
02:41:09,840 --> 02:41:13,080
Speaker 1: is this this constant push and pull of people saying

2918
02:41:13,160 --> 02:41:17,879
Speaker 1: that like the expectation of bettering our conditions, whether it

2919
02:41:17,920 --> 02:41:20,200
Speaker 1: be like us on the picket line just trying to

2920
02:41:20,200 --> 02:41:23,000
Speaker 1: get like a stable wage and just cause employment and

2921
02:41:23,040 --> 02:41:26,080
Speaker 1: stuff like that, or whether it be you know, those

2922
02:41:26,160 --> 02:41:28,960
Speaker 1: larger societal changes that like you're talking about use butt

2923
02:41:29,000 --> 02:41:30,960
Speaker 1: up against these people who who have such like a

2924
02:41:31,040 --> 02:41:36,279
Speaker 1: paucity of imagination about what's possible. Yeah, and like about

2925
02:41:36,320 --> 02:41:40,680
Speaker 1: the legitimacy of trying to make something better, the legitimacy

2926
02:41:41,160 --> 02:41:45,600
Speaker 1: of saying, sure, I can subsist on this, but yeah,

2927
02:41:46,040 --> 02:41:49,640
Speaker 1: there's so much more as possible. Yeah, so I'm maintained

2928
02:41:49,640 --> 02:41:51,520
Speaker 1: that there's something more as possible.

2929
02:41:52,160 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's possible too. And that's the thing

2930
02:41:55,600 --> 02:41:57,640
Speaker 3: about this world, right, is that our enemies I figured

2931
02:41:57,680 --> 02:41:58,959
Speaker 3: out that it actually can change.

2932
02:42:00,040 --> 02:42:01,800
Speaker 1: That's why they have to fight so hard. Yeah.

2933
02:42:01,800 --> 02:42:03,240
Speaker 3: But the thing is the fact that they can change

2934
02:42:03,280 --> 02:42:04,920
Speaker 3: for the worse also means that they can change.

2935
02:42:04,720 --> 02:42:05,080
Speaker 11: For the better.

2936
02:42:05,200 --> 02:42:06,240
Speaker 1: All beautiful stuff.

2937
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:08,720
Speaker 3: Okay, where where can people find your strike fund? We'll

2938
02:42:08,720 --> 02:42:10,199
Speaker 3: also put it in the in the description.

2939
02:42:10,520 --> 02:42:14,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, great, so it's on GoFundMe. I'll send you

2940
02:42:14,959 --> 02:42:17,840
Speaker 1: the link and it'll be down there. But also people

2941
02:42:17,920 --> 02:42:23,520
Speaker 1: can hit up our union Instagram. It's urban or workers

2942
02:42:23,600 --> 02:42:28,360
Speaker 1: with underscores between the words urban, underscore or underscore worker

2943
02:42:28,720 --> 02:42:31,840
Speaker 1: that we've got the link to like strike fund. And also, hey,

2944
02:42:31,840 --> 02:42:34,480
Speaker 1: if you're in Berkeley, you can sign up for a

2945
02:42:34,480 --> 02:42:37,160
Speaker 1: picket shift and you get to enjoy listening to me

2946
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:40,280
Speaker 1: discourse for nine hours instead of one.

2947
02:42:40,320 --> 02:42:43,040
Speaker 3: It's great, it's fun. Pickets are cool and good. If

2948
02:42:43,080 --> 02:42:44,520
Speaker 3: you have a bit on one, you should go on one.

2949
02:42:44,640 --> 02:42:47,600
Speaker 3: They're great, They're great. Yeah, it's a good time.

2950
02:43:10,200 --> 02:43:14,000
Speaker 8: This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly

2951
02:43:14,080 --> 02:43:17,320
Speaker 8: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

2952
02:43:17,360 --> 02:43:20,080
Speaker 8: and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today.

2953
02:43:20,080 --> 02:43:24,879
Speaker 8: I'm joined by doctor James's Stout and Reverend doctor the

2954
02:43:24,959 --> 02:43:26,440
Speaker 8: Honorable Robert Evans.

2955
02:43:27,200 --> 02:43:27,640
Speaker 1: That's right.

2956
02:43:27,720 --> 02:43:30,680
Speaker 2: M hmm, that's right, Reverend doctor the honorable Evans, who

2957
02:43:30,760 --> 02:43:35,119
Speaker 2: is currently hacking up a fucking lung. No idea why

2958
02:43:35,240 --> 02:43:36,560
Speaker 2: I feel otherwise fine?

2959
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:40,080
Speaker 8: Well, I'm sure you feel otherwise fine due to this

2960
02:43:40,200 --> 02:43:43,760
Speaker 8: great week in American history we've all been through together, Yeah,

2961
02:43:44,320 --> 02:43:48,879
Speaker 8: which started with a meeting between President Donald Trump and

2962
02:43:49,000 --> 02:43:54,120
Speaker 8: El Salvador President Buklea on Monday morning in the Oval Office,

2963
02:43:54,240 --> 02:43:57,440
Speaker 8: where they discussed the possibility of the United States helping

2964
02:43:57,560 --> 02:44:02,080
Speaker 8: to build more Seacott style facility to disappear US citizens

2965
02:44:02,120 --> 02:44:06,640
Speaker 8: and immigrants that the Trump administration deems criminals or terrorists.

2966
02:44:07,080 --> 02:44:09,920
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I keep getting asked, is this the

2967
02:44:09,920 --> 02:44:13,840
Speaker 2: panic moment? And I don't think panic is particularly productive,

2968
02:44:13,920 --> 02:44:15,800
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, this is the worst case scenario. The

2969
02:44:15,840 --> 02:44:18,560
Speaker 2: worst case scenario is happening the President's talking about sending

2970
02:44:19,000 --> 02:44:23,720
Speaker 2: citizens overseas to a concentration camp. Honestly, I'm on the

2971
02:44:23,800 --> 02:44:26,080
Speaker 2: verge of thinking it's okay to call it a death camp.

2972
02:44:26,120 --> 02:44:28,120
Speaker 2: But we just don't have the data yet. There's some

2973
02:44:28,400 --> 02:44:32,840
Speaker 2: very concerning satellite shots that appear to show piles of bodies.

2974
02:44:33,120 --> 02:44:34,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's from March of twenty twenty four.

2975
02:44:35,360 --> 02:44:37,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, but it won't have.

2976
02:44:37,480 --> 02:44:41,320
Speaker 9: Gotten better no, no, yeah, yeah.

2977
02:44:40,640 --> 02:44:43,480
Speaker 2: So I don't know. This is about as bad as

2978
02:44:43,520 --> 02:44:45,760
Speaker 2: it could be, folks, We're in it.

2979
02:44:46,280 --> 02:44:49,280
Speaker 8: During that meeting, both President Bukeley and the Trump cabinet

2980
02:44:49,720 --> 02:44:52,959
Speaker 8: argue that there's simply no way for people sent to

2981
02:44:53,000 --> 02:44:56,440
Speaker 8: see God to ever return to the United States, coming

2982
02:44:56,520 --> 02:44:59,560
Speaker 8: up with a whole bunch of absurd observed reasons for

2983
02:44:59,600 --> 02:45:02,160
Speaker 8: why that is that is impossible due to due to

2984
02:45:02,240 --> 02:45:05,800
Speaker 8: foreign policy and safety of both El Salvador and the

2985
02:45:05,879 --> 02:45:08,560
Speaker 8: United States. Me and James did a whole episode on

2986
02:45:08,600 --> 02:45:10,760
Speaker 8: this earlier this week that you can check out on

2987
02:45:10,800 --> 02:45:14,560
Speaker 8: the It could Happen here feed. I'm gonna move on

2988
02:45:14,879 --> 02:45:19,320
Speaker 8: to an update on the student crackdowns. So ICE has

2989
02:45:19,320 --> 02:45:23,680
Speaker 8: targeted a third Green card holder for deportation based on

2990
02:45:23,800 --> 02:45:30,320
Speaker 8: pro Palestinian activism. Mosen Matuwi is a Palestinian from the

2991
02:45:30,360 --> 02:45:32,360
Speaker 8: West Bank who has lived in the US with a

2992
02:45:32,360 --> 02:45:36,720
Speaker 8: green card for a decade while studying philosophy at Columbia.

2993
02:45:36,760 --> 02:45:40,080
Speaker 8: He co founded the Columbia Palestinian Student Union in twenty

2994
02:45:40,080 --> 02:45:44,160
Speaker 8: twenty three with Mahmoud Khalil. Maduwi was arrested by Ice

2995
02:45:44,280 --> 02:45:49,439
Speaker 8: last Monday, April fourteenth at his citizenship interview in Vermont.

2996
02:45:50,160 --> 02:45:54,039
Speaker 8: Now after Khalil was arrested last month, Maduwi went into

2997
02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:58,039
Speaker 8: hiding and he suspected that this citizenship interview could be

2998
02:45:58,080 --> 02:46:01,000
Speaker 8: a honeypot, but decided to go anyway. After waiting a

2999
02:46:01,040 --> 02:46:05,080
Speaker 8: long time for this appointment, his lawyers quickly filed a

3000
02:46:05,080 --> 02:46:08,720
Speaker 8: habeas corpus petition arguing his detentions unlawful and Violet's First Amendment.

3001
02:46:09,320 --> 02:46:13,600
Speaker 8: A US district judge issued an order hours later that

3002
02:46:13,640 --> 02:46:16,160
Speaker 8: he was quote not to be removed from the United

3003
02:46:16,160 --> 02:46:18,320
Speaker 8: States or moved out of the territory of the District

3004
02:46:18,320 --> 02:46:23,039
Speaker 8: of Vermont, pending for their order of this court. Zionistocksing

3005
02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:27,840
Speaker 8: accounts targeted Marwi in recent weeks. I'm going to play

3006
02:46:27,879 --> 02:46:32,280
Speaker 8: actually this two minute clip of Marwi talking This is

3007
02:46:32,360 --> 02:46:37,080
Speaker 8: from December of twenty twenty three on the program sixty minutes.

3008
02:46:37,480 --> 02:46:41,000
Speaker 22: What was your initial reaction when you heard about the

3009
02:46:41,640 --> 02:46:43,880
Speaker 22: Hamas attack on October seventh.

3010
02:46:44,600 --> 02:46:48,600
Speaker 17: I could not believe what my eyes were seeing, where

3011
02:46:48,640 --> 02:46:54,600
Speaker 17: I see Hamas members getting into settlements and so on.

3012
02:46:55,440 --> 02:46:58,199
Speaker 17: But also the first moment I saw that, I put

3013
02:46:58,280 --> 02:47:05,520
Speaker 17: my hand on my heart and I started praying, knowing

3014
02:47:06,280 --> 02:47:08,960
Speaker 17: that there will be a huge level of revenge from

3015
02:47:09,000 --> 02:47:13,680
Speaker 17: the Israelis, and I was praying that this will not

3016
02:47:13,879 --> 02:47:17,640
Speaker 17: be the result, because it would be disastrous.

3017
02:47:18,160 --> 02:47:21,160
Speaker 22: The night of the rally, I believe someone in the

3018
02:47:21,200 --> 02:47:27,680
Speaker 22: crowd said something very anti Jewish, not just say anti Israeli,

3019
02:47:27,720 --> 02:47:28,640
Speaker 22: but anti Jewish.

3020
02:47:28,840 --> 02:47:35,840
Speaker 17: Yes, this was as a walk out on November ninth,

3021
02:47:37,040 --> 02:47:41,120
Speaker 17: and a person who is not affiliated with Columbia. We've

3022
02:47:41,160 --> 02:47:44,280
Speaker 17: never seen him, we don't know who is this guy

3023
02:47:44,959 --> 02:47:52,280
Speaker 17: comes down down the stairs yelling death to Jews. I

3024
02:47:52,440 --> 02:47:56,480
Speaker 17: was shocked. And they walked directly to the person and

3025
02:47:56,560 --> 02:48:00,640
Speaker 17: they told him you don't represent us because this is

3026
02:48:00,720 --> 02:48:05,480
Speaker 17: not something that we agree with, and directly what I've done.

3027
02:48:06,120 --> 02:48:09,120
Speaker 17: I tooked the megaphone and they gave a speech and

3028
02:48:09,160 --> 02:48:14,600
Speaker 17: they said we here are conscious, educated, students, and we

3029
02:48:14,720 --> 02:48:18,360
Speaker 17: know how to separate right from wrong, and what this

3030
02:48:18,480 --> 02:48:24,480
Speaker 17: guy has said is wrong. What this guy has said

3031
02:48:25,720 --> 02:48:32,160
Speaker 17: is clearly anti sematic against Jews. To be anti Semitic

3032
02:48:32,720 --> 02:48:39,080
Speaker 17: is unjust, is unjust, and the fight for the freedom

3033
02:48:39,120 --> 02:48:43,120
Speaker 17: of Palestine and the fight against anti Semetism go hand

3034
02:48:43,160 --> 02:48:48,760
Speaker 17: in hand, because injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

3035
02:48:50,200 --> 02:48:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he said everything that would make him

3036
02:48:55,480 --> 02:48:59,039
Speaker 2: a respectable protester, at least based on what the fucking

3037
02:48:59,040 --> 02:49:01,560
Speaker 2: dims were saying last year, Like, there's nothing in there

3038
02:49:01,600 --> 02:49:04,480
Speaker 2: that's pro Hamas. There's nothing in anything I can tell

3039
02:49:04,520 --> 02:49:08,400
Speaker 2: this guy has done that his advocacy towards terrorism. But

3040
02:49:08,440 --> 02:49:11,800
Speaker 2: obviously that's not what matters. What matters is they have

3041
02:49:11,879 --> 02:49:14,400
Speaker 2: the ability to get him out, and they're doing that

3042
02:49:14,480 --> 02:49:15,279
Speaker 2: because of his speech.

3043
02:49:15,480 --> 02:49:19,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, he took a step back from protests in March

3044
02:49:19,400 --> 02:49:22,800
Speaker 8: of twenty twenty four, during the second wave of student

3045
02:49:23,040 --> 02:49:24,360
Speaker 8: protests at Columbia.

3046
02:49:24,600 --> 02:49:26,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, and like I believe he didn't. Isn't he like

3047
02:49:26,400 --> 02:49:28,160
Speaker 9: a member of the university Buddhist Club.

3048
02:49:29,080 --> 02:49:30,720
Speaker 8: Yes, part of why took a step back was to

3049
02:49:30,720 --> 02:49:33,160
Speaker 8: focus on his role in the Buddhist club as a

3050
02:49:33,160 --> 02:49:35,519
Speaker 8: as for I think in the past like two years,

3051
02:49:35,280 --> 02:49:39,320
Speaker 8: he has been participating in that on campus. Yeah, he

3052
02:49:39,440 --> 02:49:43,400
Speaker 8: told CBS News the day before he was detained. Quote,

3053
02:49:43,560 --> 02:49:46,280
Speaker 8: if my story will become another story for the struggle

3054
02:49:46,360 --> 02:49:49,320
Speaker 8: to have justice and democracy in this country, let it

3055
02:49:49,440 --> 02:49:53,199
Speaker 8: be unquote like other students who've been targeted and arrested,

3056
02:49:53,520 --> 02:49:55,680
Speaker 8: he has not been charged or accused of any crime,

3057
02:49:56,240 --> 02:49:58,800
Speaker 8: but the State Department has deemed him a threat to

3058
02:49:58,879 --> 02:49:59,879
Speaker 8: foreign policy.

3059
02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:01,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3060
02:50:01,120 --> 02:50:03,800
Speaker 9: Hot to see how but I think as we're seeing it,

3061
02:50:03,840 --> 02:50:04,680
Speaker 9: that doesn't really matter.

3062
02:50:05,160 --> 02:50:06,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3063
02:50:06,480 --> 02:50:10,440
Speaker 8: Now, last Friday, a Louisiana judge ruled in favor of

3064
02:50:10,480 --> 02:50:13,480
Speaker 8: the Trump administration to allow the deportation of Mahmoud Khalil,

3065
02:50:13,720 --> 02:50:16,920
Speaker 8: upholding the government's argument that the rarely used Cold War

3066
02:50:16,959 --> 02:50:20,440
Speaker 8: era statute of the Immigration and Nationality Act allows for

3067
02:50:20,480 --> 02:50:23,000
Speaker 8: the Secretary of State to deport aliens that pose quote

3068
02:50:23,120 --> 02:50:28,800
Speaker 8: adverse foreign policy consequences. The only quote unquote evidence presented

3069
02:50:28,840 --> 02:50:31,600
Speaker 8: in court was a two page memo written by Mark

3070
02:50:31,680 --> 02:50:35,920
Speaker 8: Rubio that alleges that Khalil's presence in the country threatens

3071
02:50:36,000 --> 02:50:38,520
Speaker 8: quote US policy had to come at anti semitism around

3072
02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:41,000
Speaker 8: the world and in the United States. Based on information

3073
02:50:41,040 --> 02:50:45,320
Speaker 8: provided by the DHS ICE and Homeland Security investigations regarding

3074
02:50:45,320 --> 02:50:48,760
Speaker 8: the participation and rules of Khalil in anti Semitic protests

3075
02:50:48,760 --> 02:50:51,720
Speaker 8: and disruptive actions which foster a hostile environment for Jewish

3076
02:50:51,760 --> 02:50:55,160
Speaker 8: students in the United States unquote. So there's no real

3077
02:50:55,200 --> 02:50:58,360
Speaker 8: evidence in this document. It is just Mark Rubio's opinion

3078
02:50:58,400 --> 02:51:00,040
Speaker 8: for two pages. And this is the only ever and

3079
02:51:00,120 --> 02:51:03,080
Speaker 8: said ever, has been held in court that resulted in

3080
02:51:03,120 --> 02:51:05,840
Speaker 8: the judge ruling in the government's favor.

3081
02:51:06,200 --> 02:51:08,400
Speaker 2: A lot of what we're seeing here is the natural

3082
02:51:08,440 --> 02:51:11,400
Speaker 2: conclusion to what was happening with like Dance last year

3083
02:51:11,480 --> 02:51:14,760
Speaker 2: talking about Haitian immigrants and admitting like, yeah, it's not

3084
02:51:14,879 --> 02:51:18,080
Speaker 2: literally true, but like it's true to how we feel.

3085
02:51:18,160 --> 02:51:20,520
Speaker 2: So it's like fine for us to spread this lie.

3086
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:25,600
Speaker 2: Like they're just declaring these people terrorists and even attempting

3087
02:51:25,640 --> 02:51:29,600
Speaker 2: to get evidence for that claim, like they certainly have.

3088
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:29,959
Speaker 1: No need to.

3089
02:51:30,040 --> 02:51:34,279
Speaker 2: And the media that like I'm seeing coverage on Fox

3090
02:51:34,320 --> 02:51:37,840
Speaker 2: particularly that's just repeatedly framing this as like the left

3091
02:51:38,000 --> 02:51:42,119
Speaker 2: is angry that like a terrorist got deborded, right, yeah.

3092
02:51:41,800 --> 02:51:43,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean this is the same stuff that we

3093
02:51:43,560 --> 02:51:47,400
Speaker 8: saw at the RNC where they referred to students as terrorists,

3094
02:51:47,440 --> 02:51:51,520
Speaker 8: like just completely completely flattened. Like every single person at

3095
02:51:51,520 --> 02:51:54,400
Speaker 8: a college campus who is upset about a genocide or

3096
02:51:54,520 --> 02:51:57,920
Speaker 8: criticizes the state of Israel, that person is a terrorist.

3097
02:51:59,040 --> 02:52:01,920
Speaker 8: Lawyers for Khalil until April twenty third to file an

3098
02:52:01,920 --> 02:52:05,119
Speaker 8: appeal to halt the deportation, and they plan to file

3099
02:52:05,160 --> 02:52:08,600
Speaker 8: an asylum case on his behalf. A separate habeas petition

3100
02:52:08,680 --> 02:52:11,920
Speaker 8: case is playing out in a New Jersey court. This week,

3101
02:52:12,040 --> 02:52:14,959
Speaker 8: NBC News reviewed over one hundred pages of documents from

3102
02:52:15,000 --> 02:52:18,320
Speaker 8: the federal government and Khalil's legal team containing information about

3103
02:52:18,320 --> 02:52:22,160
Speaker 8: his immigration process, work experience, and activism. These documents showed

3104
02:52:22,160 --> 02:52:26,840
Speaker 8: that the government used unverified tabloid reporting against Khalil and

3105
02:52:26,959 --> 02:52:32,920
Speaker 8: contained contradictory information yep, so, essentially using New York Post

3106
02:52:32,959 --> 02:52:38,040
Speaker 8: style publications as a pretext for ICE to execute arrests

3107
02:52:38,160 --> 02:52:41,480
Speaker 8: against people who are Green card holders, legal permanent residents

3108
02:52:42,360 --> 02:52:44,800
Speaker 8: of the United States. We're going to go on break

3109
02:52:44,879 --> 02:52:49,080
Speaker 8: and come back to talk about Robert F. Kennedy Junior.

3110
02:52:49,120 --> 02:52:51,199
Speaker 2: Finally, finally something fun.

3111
02:53:03,080 --> 02:53:03,880
Speaker 9: All right, we're back.

3112
02:53:04,600 --> 02:53:07,760
Speaker 8: I'm gonna throw to Robert Evans for an update on

3113
02:53:07,879 --> 02:53:10,600
Speaker 8: everyone's favorite roadkill consumer.

3114
02:53:11,040 --> 02:53:15,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, RFK Junior. He's not just strapping the carcass

3115
02:53:15,400 --> 02:53:17,360
Speaker 2: of a dead whale to the head of his truck

3116
02:53:17,959 --> 02:53:21,520
Speaker 2: and driving down the highway. Now, he is while kind

3117
02:53:21,520 --> 02:53:24,960
Speaker 2: of launching a genocidal campaign against people with autism.

3118
02:53:24,520 --> 02:53:26,680
Speaker 8: Kind of doing a national eugenics program.

3119
02:53:26,800 --> 02:53:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of calling a large group of people in

3120
02:53:29,320 --> 02:53:30,880
Speaker 2: this country useless eaters.

3121
02:53:31,120 --> 02:53:32,000
Speaker 8: Jesus Christ.

3122
02:53:32,120 --> 02:53:32,360
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3123
02:53:32,400 --> 02:53:32,640
Speaker 4: Fuck.

3124
02:53:32,720 --> 02:53:35,480
Speaker 2: And the gist of what's happening is they just had

3125
02:53:35,520 --> 02:53:38,720
Speaker 2: a new quote unquote study come out that looked at

3126
02:53:38,840 --> 02:53:42,600
Speaker 2: like apparently rising autism rates. And again I've covered this

3127
02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:46,320
Speaker 2: a lot. The reason why rates of autism are increasing

3128
02:53:46,760 --> 02:53:50,120
Speaker 2: every credible scientist degrees is because we're looking for it

3129
02:53:50,200 --> 02:53:52,560
Speaker 2: more and so we're finding more of it and we

3130
02:53:52,600 --> 02:53:56,240
Speaker 2: have a broader understanding of what it is. RFK Junior

3131
02:53:56,280 --> 02:53:58,959
Speaker 2: is obsessed with the idea, the image of autism as

3132
02:53:59,000 --> 02:54:02,600
Speaker 2: a disease that is spreading due to an environmental contagion,

3133
02:54:03,280 --> 02:54:05,760
Speaker 2: and he is trying to make the case that this

3134
02:54:06,000 --> 02:54:09,080
Speaker 2: is a calamity. He has promised. The most recent promise

3135
02:54:09,120 --> 02:54:12,800
Speaker 2: he made is that by September the government will release

3136
02:54:13,120 --> 02:54:17,680
Speaker 2: exhaustive studies that will identify the environmental causes of autism.

3137
02:54:18,240 --> 02:54:22,240
Speaker 2: And he made a statement, autism destroys families. More importantly,

3138
02:54:22,240 --> 02:54:25,039
Speaker 2: it destroys our greatest resource, which is our children. These

3139
02:54:25,080 --> 02:54:28,360
Speaker 2: are children who should not be suffering like this. He

3140
02:54:28,480 --> 02:54:32,320
Speaker 2: is called autism a preventable disease, which it is not.

3141
02:54:32,920 --> 02:54:35,800
Speaker 2: While there is evidence that some of the factors that

3142
02:54:35,879 --> 02:54:40,560
Speaker 2: can be relevant in autism expressing are environmental, the vast

3143
02:54:40,560 --> 02:54:43,600
Speaker 2: majority of it seems to be genetic. There's no evidence,

3144
02:54:43,600 --> 02:54:45,280
Speaker 2: and there have been repeated studies there has anything to

3145
02:54:45,280 --> 02:54:48,240
Speaker 2: do with vaccines. He's positive a couple of other theories

3146
02:54:48,280 --> 02:54:52,560
Speaker 2: as to what causes it, including mold and diet, and

3147
02:54:52,600 --> 02:54:55,840
Speaker 2: these are largely based on what are already kind of quack,

3148
02:54:56,120 --> 02:55:00,280
Speaker 2: both autism treatments and quack autism causes that are are

3149
02:55:00,320 --> 02:55:04,000
Speaker 2: popular within the biomedical movement, the experimental biomedical movement, which

3150
02:55:04,040 --> 02:55:07,720
Speaker 2: is the fake autism medical industrial complex that we covered

3151
02:55:07,720 --> 02:55:10,959
Speaker 2: recently on the Behind the Bastards. One of the things

3152
02:55:11,000 --> 02:55:13,640
Speaker 2: I think is really worrying about the language that Kennedy

3153
02:55:13,720 --> 02:55:16,400
Speaker 2: is using is how similar it sounds to a lot

3154
02:55:16,400 --> 02:55:19,920
Speaker 2: of what you were seeing in the early nineteen thirties

3155
02:55:20,440 --> 02:55:23,440
Speaker 2: out of the Nazi state, what we know of as

3156
02:55:23,560 --> 02:55:27,280
Speaker 2: the Holocaust, which is generally a term. Generally, Primarily when

3157
02:55:27,280 --> 02:55:29,080
Speaker 2: people use that term they are talking about the mass

3158
02:55:29,160 --> 02:55:34,279
Speaker 2: killing of Jews and other ethnic minorities in Central Europe

3159
02:55:34,400 --> 02:55:38,720
Speaker 2: by the Nazi state. That got a lot of its start,

3160
02:55:39,200 --> 02:55:41,440
Speaker 2: and there's a couple of different places got it start. Obviously,

3161
02:55:41,440 --> 02:55:44,920
Speaker 2: the wild concentration camps and the political concentration camps are

3162
02:55:44,920 --> 02:55:47,160
Speaker 2: in that heritage. When it comes to the actual mass

3163
02:55:47,240 --> 02:55:50,000
Speaker 2: killing of people, the very origin of that was in

3164
02:55:50,080 --> 02:55:51,680
Speaker 2: getting rid of the disabled.

3165
02:55:51,879 --> 02:55:52,080
Speaker 3: Right.

3166
02:55:52,600 --> 02:55:54,960
Speaker 2: The term that was used in Nazi propaganda for these

3167
02:55:55,000 --> 02:55:57,600
Speaker 2: people was useless eaters. And this is the first time

3168
02:55:57,640 --> 02:56:01,119
Speaker 2: that the Nazis tested out gassing right in large numbers.

3169
02:56:01,600 --> 02:56:04,680
Speaker 2: And he hasn't used literally the term useless eaters, but

3170
02:56:04,760 --> 02:56:06,800
Speaker 2: he talks a lot about. One of the terms he

3171
02:56:06,879 --> 02:56:10,840
Speaker 2: uses is severe autism, right, which is not the term

3172
02:56:10,959 --> 02:56:14,760
Speaker 2: that is popularly used now for people who have kind

3173
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:18,120
Speaker 2: of profound autism. I think is the preferred term for

3174
02:56:18,160 --> 02:56:21,200
Speaker 2: people who do have a significantly higher degree of like

3175
02:56:21,200 --> 02:56:24,400
Speaker 2: disability as a result of their autism or that correlates

3176
02:56:24,440 --> 02:56:27,480
Speaker 2: with their autism, right, as opposed to the vast majority

3177
02:56:27,480 --> 02:56:29,360
Speaker 2: of people who can be diagnosed to somewhere on the

3178
02:56:29,360 --> 02:56:34,160
Speaker 2: spectrum who are able to live independently. Right, And Kennedy

3179
02:56:34,480 --> 02:56:37,360
Speaker 2: sort of does the thing that is very common within

3180
02:56:37,879 --> 02:56:40,879
Speaker 2: this community of sort of number one, correlating that to

3181
02:56:41,200 --> 02:56:44,160
Speaker 2: everybody with autism and talking about it as if it

3182
02:56:44,200 --> 02:56:47,680
Speaker 2: is a disaster that justifies any kind of response, because

3183
02:56:47,720 --> 02:56:50,920
Speaker 2: the people who have profound autism aren't real people in

3184
02:56:50,959 --> 02:56:53,800
Speaker 2: his eyes. He made a statement quote, these are kids

3185
02:56:53,840 --> 02:56:56,360
Speaker 2: who will never pay taxes, They'll never hold a job,

3186
02:56:56,400 --> 02:56:59,240
Speaker 2: they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll

3187
02:56:59,240 --> 02:57:01,200
Speaker 2: never go out on a many of them will never

3188
02:57:01,240 --> 02:57:03,520
Speaker 2: use a toilet unassisted. We have to recognize we are

3189
02:57:03,560 --> 02:57:06,200
Speaker 2: doing this to our children. And first off, having taught

3190
02:57:06,200 --> 02:57:08,680
Speaker 2: a lot of kids with profound autism, yes they could

3191
02:57:08,680 --> 02:57:11,840
Speaker 2: play baseball, like a number of them held jobs. Now

3192
02:57:12,120 --> 02:57:14,240
Speaker 2: do a lot of them need assisted living? Sure, But

3193
02:57:14,400 --> 02:57:18,400
Speaker 2: like number one, that's always been the case. There's no

3194
02:57:18,480 --> 02:57:21,959
Speaker 2: evidence that people with this kind of autom that there's

3195
02:57:22,000 --> 02:57:25,240
Speaker 2: any sort of raise in this right. What's raised is

3196
02:57:25,280 --> 02:57:28,520
Speaker 2: the number of people who are being diagnosed. Right, And

3197
02:57:28,879 --> 02:57:32,720
Speaker 2: he's using this kind of scare term, right, this idea

3198
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:34,880
Speaker 2: that like parents, you need to be frightened that something

3199
02:57:34,959 --> 02:57:37,920
Speaker 2: is going to steal your children from you in order

3200
02:57:37,959 --> 02:57:42,920
Speaker 2: to justify the dehumanization of everyone with autism, as well

3201
02:57:43,000 --> 02:57:49,320
Speaker 2: as radical biomedical experimental procedures that are going to do

3202
02:57:49,680 --> 02:57:53,280
Speaker 2: harm at scale to lots of kids. One of his

3203
02:57:53,280 --> 02:57:56,400
Speaker 2: favorite new terms is epidemic denial, which is the term

3204
02:57:56,440 --> 02:57:59,080
Speaker 2: that he's using for people who say that, like, this

3205
02:57:59,240 --> 02:58:01,920
Speaker 2: is not an epidemic, this is something that we're now

3206
02:58:01,920 --> 02:58:05,680
Speaker 2: screening for more. He's kind of kind of repurposing the

3207
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:10,200
Speaker 2: language of like vaccine denial and whatnot as like a

3208
02:58:10,240 --> 02:58:13,720
Speaker 2: denial that this is sort of an immediate crisis that

3209
02:58:14,320 --> 02:58:16,199
Speaker 2: needs to be hit, which I find interesting.

3210
02:58:16,600 --> 02:58:19,680
Speaker 8: Also like co opting like COVID conscious language.

3211
02:58:19,800 --> 02:58:22,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think the way he and his group

3212
02:58:22,280 --> 02:58:24,480
Speaker 9: were referred to during COVID he's now using in the

3213
02:58:24,520 --> 02:58:25,240
Speaker 9: same fashion.

3214
02:58:25,560 --> 02:58:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting. His initial promise was that like,

3215
02:58:29,720 --> 02:58:32,680
Speaker 2: by September, will know why autism rates are on the rise.

3216
02:58:33,240 --> 02:58:36,400
Speaker 2: That's not really a thing. You can't make science work

3217
02:58:36,440 --> 02:58:38,640
Speaker 2: that way, Like you can't guarantee that.

3218
02:58:38,879 --> 02:58:41,240
Speaker 9: Like you said, we already know because people are seeking

3219
02:58:41,280 --> 02:58:46,160
Speaker 9: out diagnoses, like because right, we have better awareness of

3220
02:58:46,240 --> 02:58:46,640
Speaker 9: it now.

3221
02:58:46,840 --> 02:58:49,640
Speaker 2: But he's kind of altered that recently, being like, no,

3222
02:58:49,760 --> 02:58:52,280
Speaker 2: we'll have some answers by September, and you know, we're

3223
02:58:52,320 --> 02:58:55,240
Speaker 2: going to get those answers by removing the taboo so

3224
02:58:55,280 --> 02:58:58,280
Speaker 2: that doctors won't get gas lit by blaming autism on

3225
02:58:58,680 --> 02:59:03,039
Speaker 2: vaccines or know, mold exposure or the like. So that's

3226
02:59:03,080 --> 02:59:05,080
Speaker 2: that's what we can look forward to in the near future.

3227
02:59:05,120 --> 02:59:08,920
Speaker 2: From our good friend RFK Junior, who definitely doesn't pay

3228
02:59:08,959 --> 02:59:11,480
Speaker 2: taxes or write poems. I just want to make that clear.

3229
02:59:11,800 --> 02:59:14,320
Speaker 2: I don't think either of those are particularly good bars

3230
02:59:14,320 --> 02:59:16,080
Speaker 2: for whether or not you're a human being, but he

3231
02:59:16,160 --> 02:59:17,480
Speaker 2: for sure doesn't do either.

3232
02:59:17,800 --> 02:59:23,320
Speaker 8: So frankly, I know way too many autistic people who write.

3233
02:59:23,040 --> 02:59:25,039
Speaker 2: Poems, oh tons of them.

3234
02:59:25,200 --> 02:59:28,240
Speaker 9: That's gonna say. Yeah, the ring poem things was a

3235
02:59:28,320 --> 02:59:29,160
Speaker 9: really fucking The.

3236
02:59:29,120 --> 02:59:31,959
Speaker 2: Poet Lauriate of Washington State since twenty twenty three is

3237
02:59:32,000 --> 02:59:35,280
Speaker 2: a is a woman with autism. So yeah, like I

3238
02:59:35,320 --> 02:59:37,240
Speaker 2: writing poems nonsense.

3239
02:59:36,879 --> 02:59:43,640
Speaker 8: Extremely common activity for for my fellow my fellow autism people.

3240
02:59:43,720 --> 02:59:46,879
Speaker 2: Yeah they are, okay, okay, ore f K Junior again,

3241
02:59:46,959 --> 02:59:49,720
Speaker 2: but he was talking about, you know, people with what

3242
02:59:49,760 --> 02:59:53,400
Speaker 2: he calls severe autism. But he also doesn't ever care

3243
02:59:53,520 --> 02:59:56,959
Speaker 2: to like specify his language because there's no there's no benefit.

3244
02:59:57,040 --> 02:59:59,039
Speaker 8: That's a real medical Yeah, and there's.

3245
02:59:58,800 --> 03:00:01,720
Speaker 2: No benefit to his eyes ideology and acknowledging that, like, well,

3246
03:00:01,720 --> 03:00:05,440
Speaker 2: most people who get diagnosed with autism may need some accommodations.

3247
03:00:06,240 --> 03:00:08,600
Speaker 2: It's a difference, right, It's a difference in the way

3248
03:00:08,600 --> 03:00:12,440
Speaker 2: your mind works. But they're fine, Like they're living healthy,

3249
03:00:12,480 --> 03:00:13,160
Speaker 2: happy lives.

3250
03:00:13,480 --> 03:00:13,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3251
03:00:13,879 --> 03:00:16,280
Speaker 8: I talk slightly differently in the cool zone work chat,

3252
03:00:17,000 --> 03:00:20,400
Speaker 8: which is kind of the extent of it for me, extent,

3253
03:00:20,959 --> 03:00:28,120
Speaker 8: but that is an aspect. Speaking of the Department of

3254
03:00:28,160 --> 03:00:32,080
Speaker 8: Public Human Services, they released a report page on their

3255
03:00:32,080 --> 03:00:35,520
Speaker 8: website for you, the the vigilance citizens Oh yes, to

3256
03:00:35,640 --> 03:00:41,200
Speaker 8: report trans miners receiving healthcare. Finally, and so an another

3257
03:00:41,240 --> 03:00:44,040
Speaker 8: one of these like snitching hotlines at this time on

3258
03:00:44,120 --> 03:00:48,160
Speaker 8: a federal government website that I'm sure will only get real,

3259
03:00:48,400 --> 03:00:51,240
Speaker 8: real complaints sent to it, and not the B movies.

3260
03:00:50,959 --> 03:00:55,879
Speaker 2: See not repeatedly the B movie scrap. Yeah.

3261
03:00:55,920 --> 03:00:58,480
Speaker 8: Speaking of trans people, I do have a few updates

3262
03:00:58,520 --> 03:01:02,320
Speaker 8: on some of the trend gender stuff. During that meeting

3263
03:01:02,360 --> 03:01:06,160
Speaker 8: between President Buklea and Trump, they went on a small

3264
03:01:06,200 --> 03:01:10,080
Speaker 8: tangent about trans people where where Trump said that he

3265
03:01:10,120 --> 03:01:13,400
Speaker 8: actually doesn't like talking about quote unquote men in women's

3266
03:01:13,440 --> 03:01:17,279
Speaker 8: sports because he wants to wait and save that issue

3267
03:01:17,680 --> 03:01:19,279
Speaker 8: to use for the next election.

3268
03:01:19,640 --> 03:01:20,119
Speaker 9: Amazing.

3269
03:01:20,320 --> 03:01:23,039
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm going to play the clip, and I don't.

3270
03:01:22,920 --> 03:01:24,680
Speaker 14: Like talking about it because I want to save it

3271
03:01:24,720 --> 03:01:27,240
Speaker 14: for just before the next election. I said, my people

3272
03:01:27,280 --> 03:01:32,760
Speaker 14: don't even talk about it because they'll change then. But

3273
03:01:33,000 --> 03:01:36,360
Speaker 14: I watched this morning it was a congressman fighting to

3274
03:01:36,440 --> 03:01:40,400
Speaker 14: the death for men to play against women in sports.

3275
03:01:40,920 --> 03:01:45,959
Speaker 8: That's like super interestic, like very clear insight into how

3276
03:01:46,040 --> 03:01:49,640
Speaker 8: like Trump sees like the trands of sports issue and

3277
03:01:49,959 --> 03:01:53,600
Speaker 8: treats it as this like election winning superpower, and like

3278
03:01:53,680 --> 03:01:57,280
Speaker 8: he certainly he is directing like the DOJ and with

3279
03:01:57,360 --> 03:02:01,240
Speaker 8: his executive orders, like he still is targeting trans people,

3280
03:02:01,440 --> 03:02:04,080
Speaker 8: especially trans people in school. So it's it's not that

3281
03:02:04,120 --> 03:02:06,560
Speaker 8: he's treating this as like a hands off issue to

3282
03:02:06,680 --> 03:02:09,640
Speaker 8: like ensure that it can remain a hot button thing

3283
03:02:09,720 --> 03:02:11,960
Speaker 8: for the next election. But I think I think in

3284
03:02:11,959 --> 03:02:15,240
Speaker 8: his mind, like he doesn't want to stop Democrats from

3285
03:02:16,440 --> 03:02:18,920
Speaker 8: caring about this issue in a way like like the

3286
03:02:18,720 --> 03:02:21,600
Speaker 8: the more that they that they fight for it in

3287
03:02:21,640 --> 03:02:24,360
Speaker 8: his mind is like what gives him ammunition for the

3288
03:02:24,360 --> 03:02:26,320
Speaker 8: next election, whether he's going to run for a third

3289
03:02:26,400 --> 03:02:29,280
Speaker 8: term or just like Republicans like mega stuff in general,

3290
03:02:29,920 --> 03:02:32,000
Speaker 8: but I think that it is an interesting look into

3291
03:02:32,040 --> 03:02:36,880
Speaker 8: like his personal insight on this issue. Meanwhile, the Department

3292
03:02:36,920 --> 03:02:41,120
Speaker 8: of Justice just announced on Wednesday, April sixteenth, that they

3293
03:02:41,120 --> 03:02:44,440
Speaker 8: are suing Maine's Department of Education for not complying with

3294
03:02:44,520 --> 03:02:47,600
Speaker 8: Trump's anti trans executive order by continuing to allow trans

3295
03:02:47,600 --> 03:02:51,039
Speaker 8: people to compete in sports, claiming that they are quote

3296
03:02:51,240 --> 03:02:55,440
Speaker 8: failing to protect women in women's sports unquote, which which

3297
03:02:55,480 --> 03:02:59,560
Speaker 8: they say violates Title nine. The suit aims to get

3298
03:02:59,600 --> 03:03:02,000
Speaker 8: an junt function to force Maine to strip away rights

3299
03:03:02,000 --> 03:03:05,120
Speaker 8: from trans people in schools, to take away two winning

3300
03:03:05,240 --> 03:03:09,360
Speaker 8: titles from trans of school athletes, and are considering to

3301
03:03:09,440 --> 03:03:13,840
Speaker 8: quote unquote retroactively pull all funding that Maine has received.

3302
03:03:14,560 --> 03:03:19,200
Speaker 8: Maine's Attorney General, Aaron Frey said on Wednesday, quote our

3303
03:03:19,240 --> 03:03:22,480
Speaker 8: position is further bolstered by the complete lack of any

3304
03:03:22,560 --> 03:03:26,840
Speaker 8: legal citation supporting the administration's position in its own complaint.

3305
03:03:27,160 --> 03:03:29,920
Speaker 8: While the President issued in executive order that reflects his

3306
03:03:30,160 --> 03:03:33,040
Speaker 8: own interpretations of the law, anyone with the most basic

3307
03:03:33,080 --> 03:03:36,920
Speaker 8: understanding of American civics understands that the President does not

3308
03:03:37,000 --> 03:03:41,880
Speaker 8: create law nor interpret law unquote. So Maine and specifically

3309
03:03:41,879 --> 03:03:44,720
Speaker 8: the main governor are adamant that this is going to

3310
03:03:44,720 --> 03:03:46,280
Speaker 8: be an issue that's only going to be settled in

3311
03:03:46,360 --> 03:03:49,280
Speaker 8: the courts, and in fact challenged Trump at a recent

3312
03:03:49,320 --> 03:03:54,040
Speaker 8: meeting to see you in court over this issue. We

3313
03:03:54,080 --> 03:03:55,760
Speaker 8: are going to go and break and then return to

3314
03:03:55,840 --> 03:04:11,960
Speaker 8: close out this episode of executive disorder. Okay, we are back.

3315
03:04:12,560 --> 03:04:15,840
Speaker 8: I'm now gonna throw to myself and Mia to discuss

3316
03:04:15,879 --> 03:04:21,879
Speaker 8: the tariff talk in a future recording.

3317
03:04:22,720 --> 03:04:26,039
Speaker 3: Rocky Jazz Bob, Rocky jazz Bot.

3318
03:04:26,240 --> 03:04:28,439
Speaker 1: Sorry, locker.

3319
03:04:30,240 --> 03:04:33,240
Speaker 20: Rocking Jazz Bob, Rocky.

3320
03:04:32,800 --> 03:04:37,200
Speaker 3: Jazz Bob, Welcome the tariff talk, the talk where I

3321
03:04:37,360 --> 03:04:42,119
Speaker 3: talk to you about the turf tariffs. So all right,

3322
03:04:42,200 --> 03:04:45,280
Speaker 3: the big thing that happens last week in tariffs was

3323
03:04:45,320 --> 03:04:49,520
Speaker 3: that Trump exempted smartphones and electronics. There's a whole suite

3324
03:04:49,520 --> 03:04:52,240
Speaker 3: of electronics that are exempted from the one and forty

3325
03:04:52,320 --> 03:04:57,000
Speaker 3: five percent turf tariffs from Liberation Day. Now, there was

3326
03:04:57,200 --> 03:05:00,680
Speaker 3: still a twenty percent tariff on on all of these

3327
03:05:00,680 --> 03:05:04,640
Speaker 3: electronic goods from the earlier round of tariffs. In one

3328
03:05:04,840 --> 03:05:07,600
Speaker 3: of the initial rounds, there was a whole thing where

3329
03:05:07,640 --> 03:05:08,520
Speaker 3: he put a bunch of tariffs.

3330
03:05:08,720 --> 03:05:11,880
Speaker 8: I'm so confused though, because I thought that's ten percent

3331
03:05:11,959 --> 03:05:14,600
Speaker 8: tariffs for non Chinese companies.

3332
03:05:15,400 --> 03:05:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but okay, So here's.

3333
03:05:17,879 --> 03:05:23,040
Speaker 8: The thing, right, China like additional or no.

3334
03:05:23,080 --> 03:05:25,440
Speaker 3: Okay. So, so what's happening with these is that in

3335
03:05:25,480 --> 03:05:27,480
Speaker 3: the very very first round of tariffs that went out,

3336
03:05:27,920 --> 03:05:30,039
Speaker 3: there was a twenty percent tariff on all Chinese goods,

3337
03:05:30,720 --> 03:05:34,640
Speaker 3: and so the Liberation Day tariffs, which and then the

3338
03:05:34,680 --> 03:05:38,360
Speaker 3: subsequent retaliatory tariffs pushed it.

3339
03:05:38,480 --> 03:05:40,640
Speaker 8: Pushed all goods now two hundred fifty.

3340
03:05:40,640 --> 03:05:42,400
Speaker 3: Okay, we're gonna we're gonna get tw hundred fifty percent.

3341
03:05:42,400 --> 03:05:45,199
Speaker 3: That numbers bullshit, But we're at one hundred and forty

3342
03:05:45,200 --> 03:05:49,480
Speaker 3: five percent like tariff from the Liberation Day stuff. But

3343
03:05:49,920 --> 03:05:53,000
Speaker 3: that also had included an earlier twenty percent tariff, and

3344
03:05:53,280 --> 03:05:55,400
Speaker 3: you you see why we're reporting about this is so

3345
03:05:55,480 --> 03:05:58,000
Speaker 3: fucking hard, right, So that was stack on top of

3346
03:05:58,040 --> 03:06:00,640
Speaker 3: that other tariffs. So if he's removed the Liberation Day tariffs,

3347
03:06:00,640 --> 03:06:03,800
Speaker 3: but there still are twenty percent tariffs on all like

3348
03:06:03,879 --> 03:06:06,200
Speaker 3: iPhones and all the electronicos that are still in effect.

3349
03:06:06,440 --> 03:06:09,039
Speaker 3: So the tariff right for those goods is now twenty

3350
03:06:09,080 --> 03:06:12,160
Speaker 3: instead of one hundred and forty five. But this is

3351
03:06:12,160 --> 03:06:16,160
Speaker 3: where things get even more murky. So even before the

3352
03:06:16,280 --> 03:06:20,840
Speaker 3: exemptions for the semiconductor stuff had been released, Trump had

3353
03:06:20,840 --> 03:06:23,720
Speaker 3: been talking about imposing a bunch of tariffs specifically on

3354
03:06:23,760 --> 03:06:28,960
Speaker 3: semiconductors from all countries, which is going to like, again,

3355
03:06:29,040 --> 03:06:31,320
Speaker 3: if this is just awesome, if you want to just

3356
03:06:31,440 --> 03:06:36,120
Speaker 3: kneecap your entire economy, you put in a tariff on

3357
03:06:36,480 --> 03:06:38,800
Speaker 3: all semiconductors from other countries, which was what this is

3358
03:06:38,800 --> 03:06:41,160
Speaker 3: looking like, it's possible the levels are going to be

3359
03:06:41,240 --> 03:06:44,000
Speaker 3: that high. Anyways, It's again worth pointing out that, like,

3360
03:06:44,280 --> 03:06:46,760
Speaker 3: there's a bunch of the parts of this production process

3361
03:06:46,760 --> 03:06:49,680
Speaker 3: that basically can only be done in Taiwan, which will

3362
03:06:49,720 --> 03:06:51,680
Speaker 3: presumably have these new tariffs on them. We don't know

3363
03:06:51,720 --> 03:06:55,240
Speaker 3: what they're gonna be yet they're coming in who fucking knows,

3364
03:06:56,320 --> 03:06:59,320
Speaker 3: But so it seems like they're these tariffs are being

3365
03:06:59,440 --> 03:07:02,720
Speaker 3: withdrawn for now to to market sort of backlash, but

3366
03:07:03,720 --> 03:07:06,800
Speaker 3: probably they will come back at some point in the future.

3367
03:07:06,840 --> 03:07:09,520
Speaker 3: We're not We're not one hundred percent sure. There's also

3368
03:07:09,520 --> 03:07:11,720
Speaker 3: another thing I want to mention, where so the number

3369
03:07:11,720 --> 03:07:13,879
Speaker 3: that you said, the two hundred and fifty percent tariff thing,

3370
03:07:14,520 --> 03:07:17,640
Speaker 3: so Trump tweeted that out, but that's fake. What that

3371
03:07:17,840 --> 03:07:19,920
Speaker 3: is is that there are a couple of items, and

3372
03:07:20,000 --> 03:07:21,280
Speaker 3: I mean when I say a couple, I mean like

3373
03:07:21,280 --> 03:07:24,400
Speaker 3: we're talking like single digit items, like things like medical

3374
03:07:24,440 --> 03:07:27,800
Speaker 3: syringes that already had like one hundred percent tariffs on them,

3375
03:07:27,959 --> 03:07:29,840
Speaker 3: that the one hundred and forty five percent tariff stack

3376
03:07:29,920 --> 03:07:32,959
Speaker 3: on top of all tariffs that are already in effect.

3377
03:07:34,040 --> 03:07:37,039
Speaker 3: So there's like like three or four items already had

3378
03:07:37,080 --> 03:07:38,879
Speaker 3: one hundred percent tariffs on them, so when you stack

3379
03:07:38,959 --> 03:07:40,320
Speaker 3: the one forty five on top of them, they're two

3380
03:07:40,360 --> 03:07:43,760
Speaker 3: fifty percent. But again it's like it's like three things, right,

3381
03:07:44,200 --> 03:07:47,360
Speaker 3: So like that's fake. On the other hand, like substantively,

3382
03:07:47,480 --> 03:07:49,320
Speaker 3: And this is something that a lot of people have

3383
03:07:49,400 --> 03:07:52,119
Speaker 3: been talking about the difference between one hundred and forty

3384
03:07:52,120 --> 03:07:54,720
Speaker 3: five percent and two hundred and forty five percent, Like

3385
03:07:55,360 --> 03:07:57,960
Speaker 3: it isn't that relevant because at one hundred and forty

3386
03:07:58,000 --> 03:08:01,760
Speaker 3: five percent you stop doing trading, So it's you know,

3387
03:08:01,840 --> 03:08:03,280
Speaker 3: the numbers at this point are just sort of in

3388
03:08:03,320 --> 03:08:06,400
Speaker 3: comedy levels. But yeah, so that's what's going on with

3389
03:08:06,440 --> 03:08:08,440
Speaker 3: the two hundred and fifty number of people have been

3390
03:08:08,440 --> 03:08:11,080
Speaker 3: going around from it's it's not real. It's still one

3391
03:08:11,200 --> 03:08:14,840
Speaker 3: forty five for all non electronics goods twenty four electronics.

3392
03:08:15,160 --> 03:08:17,600
Speaker 3: There's also been a bunch of sort of China has

3393
03:08:17,640 --> 03:08:20,280
Speaker 3: been doing retaliatory stuff for a little bit, and they've

3394
03:08:20,280 --> 03:08:24,520
Speaker 3: been ramping up this program to restrict US access to

3395
03:08:24,600 --> 03:08:26,600
Speaker 3: rare earth elements that are necessary for a whole bunch

3396
03:08:26,600 --> 03:08:30,080
Speaker 3: of advanced engineering, particularly sort of defense projects. This is

3397
03:08:30,080 --> 03:08:33,600
Speaker 3: only that could genuinely devastate the American defense sector. Trump's

3398
03:08:33,600 --> 03:08:35,560
Speaker 3: plan for this is that he's threatening to use the

3399
03:08:35,600 --> 03:08:38,600
Speaker 3: Trade Expansion Act nineteen sixty two to impose even more

3400
03:08:38,600 --> 03:08:42,800
Speaker 3: devastating tariffs. Now it is genuinely unclear to me, Like

3401
03:08:42,959 --> 03:08:45,520
Speaker 3: what are he gonna do impose in one thousand percent tariff?

3402
03:08:45,920 --> 03:08:47,879
Speaker 3: Like you need to buy these goods?

3403
03:08:48,200 --> 03:08:51,720
Speaker 8: Like you say that, Mia, And yeah, he probably will.

3404
03:08:51,879 --> 03:08:55,320
Speaker 3: He probably will. Like two weeks ago, one thousand percent

3405
03:08:55,320 --> 03:08:57,879
Speaker 3: tariffs would have been a joke, But no, they might.

3406
03:08:57,920 --> 03:08:59,920
Speaker 3: They might legitimately do one thousand percent tariffs.

3407
03:09:00,040 --> 03:09:00,320
Speaker 8: Why not.

3408
03:09:00,680 --> 03:09:03,600
Speaker 3: There's also been the beginnings of on the US ND

3409
03:09:03,640 --> 03:09:07,400
Speaker 3: sort of export restrictions from chip exports to China and

3410
03:09:07,400 --> 03:09:10,480
Speaker 3: countries like Nvidia and AMD. And this is a fucking

3411
03:09:11,120 --> 03:09:15,119
Speaker 3: big rip to the big rip to the fucking AI people.

3412
03:09:15,600 --> 03:09:19,400
Speaker 3: Each hit get fucked. Yeah. So like so that that's

3413
03:09:19,560 --> 03:09:23,119
Speaker 3: roughly the state of of the tariffs right now. More

3414
03:09:23,360 --> 03:09:26,200
Speaker 3: more bullshit will happen. We'll be back on tariff talk

3415
03:09:26,320 --> 03:09:30,400
Speaker 3: next week with another round of unbelievably hideous turf tariff shit.

3416
03:09:30,520 --> 03:09:32,080
Speaker 3: But I want to I want to move on to

3417
03:09:32,160 --> 03:09:35,440
Speaker 3: one more thing, which is things that have been happening

3418
03:09:35,480 --> 03:09:38,280
Speaker 3: at the at the NLRB. So the NLRB, for people

3419
03:09:38,280 --> 03:09:40,280
Speaker 3: who are not regular listeners to the show, is the

3420
03:09:40,360 --> 03:09:43,320
Speaker 3: National Labor Relations Board. They were in charge of a

3421
03:09:43,360 --> 03:09:47,240
Speaker 3: whole bunch of things related to negotiations between employers and unions.

3422
03:09:47,240 --> 03:09:51,160
Speaker 3: Are the people who certify union elections. They they handle

3423
03:09:52,080 --> 03:09:57,200
Speaker 3: unfair labor practices disputes, and Doge effectively broke into the

3424
03:09:57,320 --> 03:10:01,760
Speaker 3: NLRB and has seized a whole bunch of information that

3425
03:10:01,959 --> 03:10:04,879
Speaker 3: they shouldn't have. NPR broke the story and has been

3426
03:10:04,879 --> 03:10:07,400
Speaker 3: doing a lot of good coverage of it. So it

3427
03:10:07,480 --> 03:10:11,120
Speaker 3: came in right. They technically had some kind of like

3428
03:10:11,400 --> 03:10:13,000
Speaker 3: order saying that they're supposed to be able to come

3429
03:10:13,000 --> 03:10:15,039
Speaker 3: in and do this stuff, and they set up and

3430
03:10:15,120 --> 03:10:17,680
Speaker 3: they disable all of the security stuff and all of

3431
03:10:17,720 --> 03:10:20,600
Speaker 3: the sort of like logs and all the sort of

3432
03:10:20,600 --> 03:10:23,480
Speaker 3: stuff that's supposed to like verify what someone's doing on

3433
03:10:23,480 --> 03:10:25,800
Speaker 3: a computer system. They go in and disabled all of them.

3434
03:10:26,240 --> 03:10:28,240
Speaker 3: They delete all traces of what they do. And this

3435
03:10:28,320 --> 03:10:30,840
Speaker 3: is a big deal because the NLRB has a lot

3436
03:10:30,879 --> 03:10:33,800
Speaker 3: of extremely sensitive data, has extremely sensitive data on unions,

3437
03:10:33,840 --> 03:10:36,120
Speaker 3: It has a lot of extremely sensitive trade data on

3438
03:10:36,720 --> 03:10:40,360
Speaker 3: private companies. Now, the NLRB person who blew the whistle

3439
03:10:40,400 --> 03:10:44,200
Speaker 3: on this to NPR described how so he complains about

3440
03:10:44,200 --> 03:10:46,400
Speaker 3: to his superiors about Doge again just like sort of

3441
03:10:46,400 --> 03:10:50,080
Speaker 3: breaking into this fucking like office and just like stealing

3442
03:10:50,120 --> 03:10:52,279
Speaker 3: all of this data because he mean, so he notices

3443
03:10:53,080 --> 03:10:56,400
Speaker 3: this program that they're building that's literally just called like backdoor,

3444
03:10:57,320 --> 03:10:59,440
Speaker 3: which is like again what you would do if you

3445
03:10:59,480 --> 03:11:02,520
Speaker 3: were literally running a hack, right, And we'll come back

3446
03:11:02,520 --> 03:11:05,000
Speaker 3: to that in a second. So the NLOP person complains

3447
03:11:05,000 --> 03:11:06,800
Speaker 3: to a superior so like, hey, these DOSE people are

3448
03:11:06,840 --> 03:11:09,960
Speaker 3: just like stealing all of the data from this And

3449
03:11:10,000 --> 03:11:13,400
Speaker 3: then like the next day, someone from Doge tapes to

3450
03:11:13,480 --> 03:11:16,240
Speaker 3: his door pictures of him and his dogs with like

3451
03:11:16,280 --> 03:11:19,880
Speaker 3: a threatening thing on it, like drone footage of him

3452
03:11:19,879 --> 03:11:25,240
Speaker 3: and his dog like walking, which is so fucking weird.

3453
03:11:25,560 --> 03:11:29,680
Speaker 3: I don't even know. I don't even So, yeah, that's

3454
03:11:29,760 --> 03:11:33,160
Speaker 3: that's extremely alarming. This is this is they're they're just

3455
03:11:33,240 --> 03:11:36,920
Speaker 3: blatantly threatening a whistleblower. Yeah. So so the other reason

3456
03:11:36,959 --> 03:11:38,680
Speaker 3: that this is really concerning is that so a lot

3457
03:11:38,680 --> 03:11:40,360
Speaker 3: of the corporate media is focused on the fact that

3458
03:11:40,400 --> 03:11:42,720
Speaker 3: there's a lot of trade information in there, there's also

3459
03:11:42,760 --> 03:11:46,440
Speaker 3: a lot of very personal information about unions, about union strength,

3460
03:11:46,440 --> 03:11:50,400
Speaker 3: about size, about tactics, about the history of negotiating things,

3461
03:11:50,520 --> 03:11:54,440
Speaker 3: about just where unions are and who's in them, and

3462
03:11:54,480 --> 03:11:56,480
Speaker 3: it's it's deeply unclear what DOGE is going to do

3463
03:11:56,560 --> 03:11:59,800
Speaker 3: this information, but it's not good And again, and I

3464
03:11:59,840 --> 03:12:02,400
Speaker 3: need to emphasize this. So I talked to friend of

3465
03:12:02,440 --> 03:12:06,120
Speaker 3: the show Maya Arson crime w about this, who is

3466
03:12:06,480 --> 03:12:10,520
Speaker 3: someone who knows a lot about hacking, And I said

3467
03:12:10,520 --> 03:12:12,320
Speaker 3: to it, okay, so this is what you would do

3468
03:12:12,360 --> 03:12:14,080
Speaker 3: if you were if you were just straight up like

3469
03:12:14,160 --> 03:12:16,560
Speaker 3: hacking the NLRB, right, Like, these are the things you

3470
03:12:16,560 --> 03:12:20,720
Speaker 3: would do, And they went, yeah, pretty much. So it's great,

3471
03:12:20,760 --> 03:12:24,199
Speaker 3: it's great. Yeah, the dose are just stolen a bunch of information.

3472
03:12:24,320 --> 03:12:26,800
Speaker 3: Who knows what's gonna happen to it, who knows what's

3473
03:12:26,800 --> 03:12:30,720
Speaker 3: gonna happen with their escalation of attacks on whistleblowers. But

3474
03:12:31,600 --> 03:12:34,840
Speaker 3: things bad, things continue to go bad.

3475
03:12:35,600 --> 03:12:41,359
Speaker 8: Well, thank you for that uplifting story, Miya about Doge

3476
03:12:41,440 --> 03:12:47,119
Speaker 8: breaking into and stealing data from the NLRB and posting

3477
03:12:47,320 --> 03:12:52,720
Speaker 8: overhead drone photos of people's houses who threatened the Doge supremacy.

3478
03:12:55,320 --> 03:12:58,360
Speaker 9: We're back, Thank you, Future Garrison and future Miya. So

3479
03:12:58,560 --> 03:13:02,160
Speaker 9: it's my role here to update you on the board

3480
03:13:02,200 --> 03:13:05,000
Speaker 9: of fascism, right, and that's what I'm here to do.

3481
03:13:05,680 --> 03:13:07,520
Speaker 9: Where I want to start this week is in the

3482
03:13:07,640 --> 03:13:10,520
Speaker 9: Roosevelt Reservation. This is something that's been reported on a

3483
03:13:10,560 --> 03:13:13,119
Speaker 9: little bit. It's largely by people who maybe only found

3484
03:13:13,120 --> 03:13:16,080
Speaker 9: out about it this week and looked at a Wikipedia

3485
03:13:16,120 --> 03:13:18,840
Speaker 9: page then wrote a story. The Roosevelt Reservation is a

3486
03:13:18,879 --> 03:13:22,320
Speaker 9: sixty foot easement that runs along the southwestern border of

3487
03:13:22,400 --> 03:13:25,600
Speaker 9: the United States from the coast in San Diego or

3488
03:13:25,640 --> 03:13:28,119
Speaker 9: the way to New Mexico. Doesn't cover the Texas border.

3489
03:13:28,520 --> 03:13:30,720
Speaker 9: I've written about it before for the Sierra Club and

3490
03:13:30,760 --> 03:13:33,280
Speaker 9: for Drilled News four or five years ago, and I'm

3491
03:13:33,280 --> 03:13:35,560
Speaker 9: going to include a link to the Sierra Club piece

3492
03:13:35,560 --> 03:13:38,000
Speaker 9: in the show notes that Drilled pieces down. Now they

3493
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:40,360
Speaker 9: don't have that print side anymore. It was established in

3494
03:13:40,440 --> 03:13:44,920
Speaker 9: nineteen oh seven by Teddy Roosevelt, and it was transferred

3495
03:13:44,959 --> 03:13:47,760
Speaker 9: for three years from the Department of the Interior Department

3496
03:13:47,760 --> 03:13:50,560
Speaker 9: of Defense by the Trump administration in twenty nineteen using

3497
03:13:50,600 --> 03:13:54,400
Speaker 9: an executive order this year. In twenty twenty five, all

3498
03:13:54,440 --> 03:13:57,680
Speaker 9: of the Roosevelt Reservation that is not part of federal

3499
03:13:57,760 --> 03:14:01,600
Speaker 9: reservation land was placed on the Apartment of Defense jurisdiction.

3500
03:14:01,920 --> 03:14:04,520
Speaker 9: A lot of reporting seems to have missed this exemption

3501
03:14:04,600 --> 03:14:07,480
Speaker 9: for federal reservation land, which makes up a significant part

3502
03:14:07,879 --> 03:14:11,560
Speaker 9: of the border, especially in Arizona right in the Tornad Reservation.

3503
03:14:12,240 --> 03:14:14,960
Speaker 9: I'm going to quote from the language of the executive

3504
03:14:15,040 --> 03:14:18,279
Speaker 9: order here quote to provide for the use and jurisdiction

3505
03:14:18,560 --> 03:14:21,440
Speaker 9: by the Department of Defense over such federal lands, including

3506
03:14:21,480 --> 03:14:25,720
Speaker 9: the Roosevelt Reservation, and excluding Federal Indian reservations, that are

3507
03:14:25,800 --> 03:14:30,439
Speaker 9: reasonably necessary to enable military activities directed in this memorandum,

3508
03:14:30,600 --> 03:14:35,119
Speaker 9: including border barrier construction and emplacement of detection and monitoring equipment.

3509
03:14:35,760 --> 03:14:38,320
Speaker 9: The way I read this, it also doesn't limit to

3510
03:14:38,360 --> 03:14:41,200
Speaker 9: the Resort reservation. It seems to include other federal land right,

3511
03:14:41,200 --> 03:14:45,160
Speaker 9: which could include National monuments, National parks BLM, and the

3512
03:14:45,240 --> 03:14:50,000
Speaker 9: National Forests, all of which exist along the border. The

3513
03:14:50,280 --> 03:14:55,119
Speaker 9: Trump administration this week also obtained waivers. The waivers wave

3514
03:14:55,680 --> 03:14:58,640
Speaker 9: dozens of laws that have been limiting construction in the

3515
03:14:58,680 --> 03:15:01,320
Speaker 9: San Diego sector. I'd like to quote a little bit

3516
03:15:01,320 --> 03:15:03,720
Speaker 9: from that Sierra Club piece that I wrote, because I

3517
03:15:03,840 --> 03:15:07,800
Speaker 9: think the aspect of the damage done to the sacred

3518
03:15:07,800 --> 03:15:10,480
Speaker 9: space of Indigenous people is being completely overlooked by the

3519
03:15:10,560 --> 03:15:14,840
Speaker 9: legacy media. In this not perhaps surprisingly so, one of

3520
03:15:14,840 --> 03:15:17,600
Speaker 9: the laws waved with a Native American Graves Protection and

3521
03:15:17,640 --> 03:15:21,120
Speaker 9: Repatriation Act. The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act

3522
03:15:21,200 --> 03:15:24,160
Speaker 9: was enacted by Congress in nineteen ninety to protect and

3523
03:15:24,240 --> 03:15:27,800
Speaker 9: safely relocate Native burial sites. When construction takes place on

3524
03:15:27,879 --> 03:15:31,720
Speaker 9: sensitive sites, the tribing question should be consulted, and in

3525
03:15:31,760 --> 03:15:35,240
Speaker 9: the event remains or other archaeological objects are found, construction

3526
03:15:35,280 --> 03:15:38,080
Speaker 9: should be altered so as not to disturb the site.

3527
03:15:38,280 --> 03:15:41,000
Speaker 9: In the areas of San Diego where they are digging,

3528
03:15:41,520 --> 03:15:44,920
Speaker 9: what's called midden soil has been found. Mid and soil

3529
03:15:45,400 --> 03:15:49,440
Speaker 9: is soil that contains evidence of cremated human remains. Right

3530
03:15:49,600 --> 03:15:53,119
Speaker 9: in this case of Kumii people. With this waver, they

3531
03:15:53,160 --> 03:15:56,480
Speaker 9: don't have to comply with nagpro Native American Graves Protection

3532
03:15:56,520 --> 03:15:58,920
Speaker 9: and Relocation Act, which means that they can continue digging

3533
03:15:59,000 --> 03:16:02,960
Speaker 9: through what are literally people's ancestors graveyards. There's another quote

3534
03:16:02,959 --> 03:16:05,640
Speaker 9: from that twenty twenty story. If this were another country's

3535
03:16:05,640 --> 03:16:08,280
Speaker 9: government destroying a region's holy land, the US would go

3536
03:16:08,280 --> 03:16:10,760
Speaker 9: to war and the people would feel it justified, activist

3537
03:16:10,840 --> 03:16:14,080
Speaker 9: Thomas barbatod Sierra. But it happens here at home, in

3538
03:16:14,120 --> 03:16:15,760
Speaker 9: front of us, and we just turn away.

3539
03:16:15,920 --> 03:16:17,840
Speaker 8: Yep, we sure do a turn away.

3540
03:16:18,080 --> 03:16:20,320
Speaker 2: It seems to be most of what we do these days.

3541
03:16:20,920 --> 03:16:23,039
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's not even what bugs me. It's like, not

3542
03:16:23,680 --> 03:16:26,440
Speaker 9: so much of folks, you know, not doing anything. I

3543
03:16:26,480 --> 03:16:29,000
Speaker 9: get that it's overwhelming, be horrible at the moment. It's

3544
03:16:29,000 --> 03:16:32,040
Speaker 9: that this doesn't even get reported. Yeah, big outlets with

3545
03:16:32,160 --> 03:16:34,360
Speaker 9: a massive budget, who are supposed to have a border

3546
03:16:34,400 --> 03:16:37,840
Speaker 9: reporter who's never fucking set foot on the border, doesn't

3547
03:16:37,879 --> 03:16:39,920
Speaker 9: take the time to talk to the indigenous people whose

3548
03:16:40,000 --> 03:16:43,360
Speaker 9: land the border crossed, right like, doesn't take the time

3549
03:16:43,400 --> 03:16:46,200
Speaker 9: to hear their concerns, doesn't take the time to think

3550
03:16:46,200 --> 03:16:50,080
Speaker 9: about when you dig thirty feet into this ground to

3551
03:16:50,240 --> 03:16:54,959
Speaker 9: build your border wall. That's twelve thousand years of someone's history.

3552
03:16:55,000 --> 03:16:57,720
Speaker 9: How do they feel about that? And like that is

3553
03:16:57,720 --> 03:17:00,840
Speaker 9: a failing of the legacy. Media been a failing for

3554
03:17:00,879 --> 03:17:02,560
Speaker 9: a long time, and it will continue to be on

3555
03:17:02,640 --> 03:17:04,520
Speaker 9: for a long time and piss me off.

3556
03:17:04,920 --> 03:17:05,160
Speaker 1: YEP.

3557
03:17:05,560 --> 03:17:08,840
Speaker 9: I guess to talk more broadly than about this militarization

3558
03:17:08,920 --> 03:17:11,320
Speaker 9: of the Roosevelt Reservation and other public land. There's been

3559
03:17:11,320 --> 03:17:14,959
Speaker 9: some speculation about what this might mean. I don't think

3560
03:17:15,000 --> 03:17:17,760
Speaker 9: that you're going to see soldiers pointing their guns at

3561
03:17:17,800 --> 03:17:21,039
Speaker 9: the southern border and shooting anyone who comes across. I

3562
03:17:21,160 --> 03:17:23,119
Speaker 9: do think it's likely a lot of the people who

3563
03:17:23,200 --> 03:17:25,720
Speaker 9: have been deployed to southern border so far at MPs

3564
03:17:25,720 --> 03:17:29,600
Speaker 9: military police, right, and it's possible that those MPs will

3565
03:17:29,600 --> 03:17:33,039
Speaker 9: be able to detain people and potentially charge and with

3566
03:17:33,080 --> 03:17:36,560
Speaker 9: trespassing on a military installation. That would just be another

3567
03:17:36,680 --> 03:17:40,320
Speaker 9: string to the bow of their attempt to like rapidly

3568
03:17:40,320 --> 03:17:43,360
Speaker 9: deport people because they already have many other kind of

3569
03:17:43,520 --> 03:17:46,440
Speaker 9: options through executive order of doing that which which they're

3570
03:17:46,440 --> 03:17:50,120
Speaker 9: already implying, right. It might also make it easier for

3571
03:17:50,160 --> 03:17:52,120
Speaker 9: them to waive some of these other laws and to

3572
03:17:52,200 --> 03:17:57,760
Speaker 9: construct more surveillance equipment in the Epogogacia case, which we've

3573
03:17:57,760 --> 03:18:02,160
Speaker 9: covered for several weeks now. The Supreme Court has unanimously

3574
03:18:02,280 --> 03:18:06,400
Speaker 9: asked the United States government to quote facilitate his return.

3575
03:18:07,360 --> 03:18:11,920
Speaker 9: The US government has embarked upon a unique definition of

3576
03:18:11,959 --> 03:18:16,800
Speaker 9: the word facilitate, which it feels like means allowing him

3577
03:18:16,800 --> 03:18:20,520
Speaker 9: to enter the country and providing transport if El Salvador

3578
03:18:20,640 --> 03:18:24,240
Speaker 9: releases him. Bu Kelly refused to release him, saying that

3579
03:18:24,280 --> 03:18:26,240
Speaker 9: doing so would be to quote smuggler terrorists into the

3580
03:18:26,320 --> 03:18:28,360
Speaker 9: United States. Garrison and I did a whole episode about

3581
03:18:28,400 --> 03:18:32,280
Speaker 9: this yesterday that you can listen to today. Senator Chris

3582
03:18:32,360 --> 03:18:35,160
Speaker 9: van Holland went to San Salvador, right capital of El

3583
03:18:35,200 --> 03:18:37,600
Speaker 9: Salbador if you're not where. He met with the vice

3584
03:18:37,680 --> 03:18:40,840
Speaker 9: president because Boukele is still out the country. Van Holand

3585
03:18:40,879 --> 03:18:42,800
Speaker 9: held the press conference right afterwards that I watched for

3586
03:18:42,840 --> 03:18:46,440
Speaker 9: it before we recorded this. In the press conference, Van

3587
03:18:46,560 --> 03:18:49,160
Speaker 9: Holland basically said that he asserted to the Vice President

3588
03:18:49,200 --> 03:18:51,560
Speaker 9: of El Salbador there was no evidence nor any conviction

3589
03:18:52,320 --> 03:18:56,520
Speaker 9: of being a member of MS thirteen, and he asked

3590
03:18:56,640 --> 03:18:59,600
Speaker 9: the VP why he was holding mister Abrigo Gassier, and

3591
03:19:00,080 --> 03:19:02,520
Speaker 9: the VP said, because the US is paying us to

3592
03:19:02,560 --> 03:19:03,040
Speaker 9: hold him.

3593
03:19:03,160 --> 03:19:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, yeah, they won't even lie.

3594
03:19:05,560 --> 03:19:08,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, no, yeah, he's not lying. That's why they're doing it.

3595
03:19:08,200 --> 03:19:12,760
Speaker 9: I believe that. Yeah, And credit to this Maryland senator

3596
03:19:12,800 --> 03:19:15,640
Speaker 9: of like being the only one to do something and

3597
03:19:15,680 --> 03:19:17,920
Speaker 9: it's not enough. And it's just one person. There are

3598
03:19:17,959 --> 03:19:20,879
Speaker 9: three hundred people there, right, they're not even going for

3599
03:19:20,879 --> 03:19:23,320
Speaker 9: the hundreds of other innocent people are there. It's one guy,

3600
03:19:23,640 --> 03:19:25,720
Speaker 9: but at least he's doing something. The rest of the

3601
03:19:25,800 --> 03:19:29,480
Speaker 9: Democrats are collectively Yeah, I don't know, like voting for

3602
03:19:29,520 --> 03:19:34,199
Speaker 9: Trump's nominees. He asked to meet with mister Abergo Garcia

3603
03:19:34,240 --> 03:19:36,120
Speaker 9: and was told that they needed more time. He said,

3604
03:19:36,160 --> 03:19:37,960
Speaker 9: I'll come back next week. They said they don't know

3605
03:19:37,959 --> 03:19:40,240
Speaker 9: if they can organize it in a week. He asked

3606
03:19:40,240 --> 03:19:42,560
Speaker 9: if he could call him. They said they didn't know

3607
03:19:42,600 --> 03:19:44,920
Speaker 9: if they could facilitate a call. They said maybe the

3608
03:19:45,040 --> 03:19:46,920
Speaker 9: US Embassy would have to be the one that requests that.

3609
03:19:46,959 --> 03:19:49,120
Speaker 9: So he has now requested that the embassy requests that

3610
03:19:49,160 --> 03:19:51,440
Speaker 9: he be allowed to call mister Abrego Garcia and mister

3611
03:19:51,480 --> 03:19:54,359
Speaker 9: Brego Garcia be allowed to speak to his wife. Garreton

3612
03:19:54,400 --> 03:19:56,920
Speaker 9: and I spoke about how like it's not in the

3613
03:19:56,920 --> 03:19:58,840
Speaker 9: interest of government at El Salbaud or to have people

3614
03:19:58,920 --> 03:20:01,320
Speaker 9: leave this prison and to fire to the conditions that

3615
03:20:01,400 --> 03:20:01,920
Speaker 9: are in it.

3616
03:20:02,160 --> 03:20:05,640
Speaker 8: No one has ever left this prison that we're aware of.

3617
03:20:05,959 --> 03:20:08,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, that no one who's been detained there has left.

3618
03:20:09,080 --> 03:20:11,280
Speaker 9: The government wouldn't give him a date when he could

3619
03:20:11,280 --> 03:20:13,600
Speaker 9: meet mister Abergo Garcia or when he would be luckily

3620
03:20:13,680 --> 03:20:17,800
Speaker 9: able to make a call. And a separate case, Judge Boseburg,

3621
03:20:18,080 --> 03:20:20,800
Speaker 9: who we've spoken about before as well, Right Judge Bothberg,

3622
03:20:20,840 --> 03:20:24,279
Speaker 9: with the judge issues' attentive restraining order on the rendition

3623
03:20:24,360 --> 03:20:27,199
Speaker 9: of people to L Salbador, which the government then ignored,

3624
03:20:27,840 --> 03:20:31,440
Speaker 9: has found probable cause that the administration is in contempt

3625
03:20:31,520 --> 03:20:35,720
Speaker 9: of court. What does this mean? It doesn't mean, despite

3626
03:20:35,720 --> 03:20:38,480
Speaker 9: what you have seen on your timeline, that this will

3627
03:20:38,480 --> 03:20:41,160
Speaker 9: mean these people will be bought home. When they found

3628
03:20:41,160 --> 03:20:43,280
Speaker 9: a contempt, they have two options. Right, they can purge

3629
03:20:43,320 --> 03:20:46,480
Speaker 9: themselves of the contempt, and the way they would do

3630
03:20:46,520 --> 03:20:50,520
Speaker 9: that would be by providing habeas not by bringing all

3631
03:20:50,560 --> 03:20:53,560
Speaker 9: these people home at least not yet, right. Or they

3632
03:20:53,560 --> 03:20:57,440
Speaker 9: could present the people who are responsible and then either

3633
03:20:57,440 --> 03:20:59,720
Speaker 9: an attorney could be appointed by the DOJ to prosecute them.

3634
03:20:59,760 --> 03:21:01,680
Speaker 9: I guess and don't quite know how it works. Sistance

3635
03:21:01,720 --> 03:21:04,359
Speaker 9: or the judge himself can appoint an attorney to prosecute

3636
03:21:04,360 --> 03:21:07,680
Speaker 9: them for criminal contempt. Again, like, at least the guys

3637
03:21:07,720 --> 03:21:08,959
Speaker 9: try and I guess like.

3638
03:21:09,000 --> 03:21:11,120
Speaker 2: No, I mean, like I got nothing to say against

3639
03:21:11,200 --> 03:21:13,240
Speaker 2: him right now, Like this is what they all should

3640
03:21:13,280 --> 03:21:16,039
Speaker 2: be doing. He went there, he'd something, and he's not

3641
03:21:16,160 --> 03:21:18,920
Speaker 2: mincing his words. He's saying that this man was disappeared.

3642
03:21:19,160 --> 03:21:22,320
Speaker 9: No, yeah, and he's he's asserting that, Like they need

3643
03:21:22,360 --> 03:21:24,360
Speaker 9: to listen to the court. They are supposed to listen

3644
03:21:24,360 --> 03:21:28,520
Speaker 9: to the court. Judge genez In genez who is a

3645
03:21:28,600 --> 03:21:30,840
Speaker 9: judge on the district court that had its case sent

3646
03:21:30,879 --> 03:21:34,000
Speaker 9: to the Supreme Court for review in the Abrego Garcia incident,

3647
03:21:34,040 --> 03:21:37,320
Speaker 9: also quoted to Merriam Webster Dictionary and said that the

3648
03:21:37,360 --> 03:21:40,800
Speaker 9: government's understanding of the word facilitate flew in the face

3649
03:21:40,879 --> 03:21:43,760
Speaker 9: of the common understanding of the word. Again, like I've

3650
03:21:43,760 --> 03:21:47,000
Speaker 9: seen it assert as like, oh, legal experts can disagree. Meanwhile,

3651
03:21:47,000 --> 03:21:49,120
Speaker 9: you've got the actual judge in the actual case being like,

3652
03:21:49,200 --> 03:21:51,680
Speaker 9: notice is what the dictionary says. Your definition is ludicrous.

3653
03:21:52,200 --> 03:21:56,280
Speaker 9: I would caution people to be very careful looking at

3654
03:21:56,320 --> 03:21:59,560
Speaker 9: at like blue check legal experts on except com or

3655
03:21:59,600 --> 03:22:04,440
Speaker 9: people blue Sky. There has been so much misleading stuff

3656
03:22:04,640 --> 03:22:08,279
Speaker 9: about immigration law and the laws in these particular two cases,

3657
03:22:08,280 --> 03:22:11,360
Speaker 9: and they are about the resol reservation. Actually, just be really

3658
03:22:11,400 --> 03:22:16,440
Speaker 9: careful where you're getting your information, especially on immigration law

3659
03:22:16,480 --> 03:22:18,760
Speaker 9: from maybe go back and check what that person was

3660
03:22:18,800 --> 03:22:21,240
Speaker 9: doing in twenty twenty three when thousands of migrants were

3661
03:22:21,240 --> 03:22:24,720
Speaker 9: detained in outdoor detention camps. Because I've seen so much

3662
03:22:24,760 --> 03:22:29,119
Speaker 9: misinformation and people, understandably who aren't expert in this because

3663
03:22:29,160 --> 03:22:33,280
Speaker 9: it's extremely complicated, are likely to be taken advantage of

3664
03:22:33,400 --> 03:22:35,160
Speaker 9: by people who are grifting off what is at a

3665
03:22:35,160 --> 03:22:36,720
Speaker 9: moment when a lot of us are afraid and a

3666
03:22:36,720 --> 03:22:38,879
Speaker 9: lot of us are insertain, So to be very careful

3667
03:22:38,920 --> 03:22:40,280
Speaker 9: what you're reading out there.

3668
03:22:40,840 --> 03:22:43,560
Speaker 8: All right, I think that's all for us today on

3669
03:22:43,680 --> 03:22:44,560
Speaker 8: It could Happen Here.

3670
03:22:44,840 --> 03:22:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's our new Rectiled Executive Dysfunction episode.

3671
03:22:52,560 --> 03:22:53,640
Speaker 9: At Rectile Order.

3672
03:22:53,800 --> 03:22:56,360
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're fucking done, go away.

3673
03:22:56,600 --> 03:22:58,599
Speaker 8: We reported the news.

3674
03:23:00,200 --> 03:23:00,560
Speaker 1: The news.

3675
03:23:05,080 --> 03:23:08,280
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3676
03:23:08,320 --> 03:23:10,240
Speaker 2: from now until the heat Death of the Universe.

3677
03:23:10,959 --> 03:23:13,480
Speaker 23: It could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

3678
03:23:13,680 --> 03:23:16,720
Speaker 23: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3679
03:23:16,800 --> 03:23:20,400
Speaker 23: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3680
03:23:20,440 --> 03:23:24,039
Speaker 23: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3681
03:23:24,040 --> 03:23:26,400
Speaker 23: now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly

3682
03:23:26,400 --> 03:23:28,720
Speaker 23: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.