Speaker 1: Hey everyone, thanks for joining us on Table for Two. Today.
Speaker 1: We're back at the Tower Bar. So happy to see you.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be having lunch with an incredible
Speaker 2: producer activists. Born and raised in Beverly Hills, served as
Speaker 2: the US Ambassador to the Bahamas under President Barack Obama,
Speaker 2: and her father, Clarence just happened to be chairman of
Speaker 2: Motown Records.
Speaker 1: What would you like?
Speaker 3: I would just like eating.
Speaker 1: Oh you know we're eating. Yeah, we get menus.
Speaker 2: We Her just released memoir called Think You'll Be Happy,
Speaker 2: moving through grief with grit, grace and gratitude about her
Speaker 2: life and the loss of her mother. An incredible moving book.
Speaker 2: And we're going deep so too.
Speaker 1: Chop with avocado perfect, that's.
Speaker 2: So Pull up a chair, poor, glass of rose, because
Speaker 2: today we're having lunch with Nicole Avon. I'm Bruce Bossi
Speaker 2: and this is my podcast Table for two. If you've
Speaker 2: pulled up a chair today, I am sitting with the
Speaker 2: beautiful Nicole Avant. Nicole has just written a memoir which
Speaker 2: is so incredible.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: The memoir is Think You'll Be Happy.
Speaker 2: It's a story of family, love, loss, celebration.
Speaker 3: It's so rich, Oh, I love that you got all
Speaker 3: those points.
Speaker 2: Thank you with so much that will address So congratulations,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you.
Speaker 4: You know, because grief is in the title, it's like, no,
Speaker 4: it's a book about it.
Speaker 3: I think you'll be happy.
Speaker 4: It's about inspiration and I hope that people inspired.
Speaker 3: And encouraged, restored.
Speaker 4: Yes, and also a new renown so renowned passion for
Speaker 4: American excellence and American progress and America. You know, just
Speaker 4: love of country and service is what we do better
Speaker 4: than anyone in the world. Now. Of course we're not perfect,
Speaker 4: and everyone's like, oh, we have all these problems.
Speaker 3: Please tell me one country that does.
Speaker 2: Not write your book and your life and your journey,
Speaker 2: in the journey of your parents and your family. This
Speaker 2: book shares all that. Yeah, everything you just said it was.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm writing things down not about grief. They're
Speaker 2: about raising children. They're about community, like really good stuff. Nicole,
Speaker 2: you grew up in Beverly Hills, and your references the
Speaker 2: seventies the eighties, we are were the same, the.
Speaker 1: Best, you know.
Speaker 2: Could you talk to us just a little bit about
Speaker 2: those years and you know what it was like to
Speaker 2: grow up here in a world where because of the
Speaker 2: nature of your mom and your dad, you were meeting
Speaker 2: a lot of very successful people. Your dad was responsible
Speaker 2: for a lot of people's success, and your mother and
Speaker 2: father kept you and your.
Speaker 3: Brother very grounded.
Speaker 1: So talk to us about like your life, what was
Speaker 1: it like?
Speaker 4: You know, it was so great because I every time
Speaker 4: I still drive through Beverly Hills now, I just have
Speaker 4: a huge smile on my face because the best memories,
Speaker 4: the best people. It was a great city at the time,
Speaker 4: still is, but at the time, in the seventies, at the.
Speaker 3: Time, it was magic, magic and it was community.
Speaker 4: And I remember seeing Jimmy start walking to church and
Speaker 4: he was always dapper, always sometimes had a little hat on.
Speaker 4: You know Ella Fitzgerald when you know, when she was
Speaker 4: walking around the neighborhood. I mean, I just I told Ted,
Speaker 4: I said, no she off of Sunset. You make it
Speaker 4: right on Whittyer at her house was right there. It's
Speaker 4: it's and our friends live in that house now, which
Speaker 4: I love. And then just but at the time, like
Speaker 4: I was saying, it was a community and it was
Speaker 4: put this way.
Speaker 3: No children, none of us.
Speaker 4: Were on rodeo or drive with our parents. It was
Speaker 4: a different time. Verdea was for the adult. There was
Speaker 4: a different thing. But the schools were great and the
Speaker 4: kids were great, and everyone at that time was focused
Speaker 4: on community and service and you know, sports and this
Speaker 4: and that.
Speaker 3: But we were walking everywhere.
Speaker 4: I mean now, I mean I remember my mom dropping
Speaker 4: me off at the corner of Whittier and Wilsher to
Speaker 4: take the bus to go to the beach, and then
Speaker 4: she'd pick me up at the.
Speaker 3: Bus stop because she said, listen, yes, can I drive
Speaker 3: you everywhere ashore? But you need to know how life works.
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to coddle you so much where
Speaker 4: you're going to freak out when you're eighteen twenty twenty
Speaker 4: three and not know how the world works. You're going
Speaker 4: to be a little scared for a minute. And it's fine,
Speaker 4: you know. And it was great if we all went
Speaker 4: in packs and she'd drop us off in Westwood and
Speaker 4: I have friends and I we talked about going to the.
Speaker 3: Avco or going to all the theaters in Westwood.
Speaker 4: They drop us off with the Arcade who leave us
Speaker 4: for eight hours.
Speaker 1: It's funny. And I was thinking about that, you know,
Speaker 1: and just.
Speaker 4: Carol O'Connor and all these people again at that time,
Speaker 4: the they were at the top of their game, like
Speaker 4: you said, really great friends with my parents.
Speaker 3: Caroline Nancy O'Connor were at my.
Speaker 4: House all the time, but they were there to talk
Speaker 4: about neighbors of Watts.
Speaker 3: They were there serving with my mom in wants.
Speaker 4: And I think that the beauty of the way I
Speaker 4: was able to grow up and what I had was
Speaker 4: they were actually great people who happened to be famous,
Speaker 4: versus famous people who are empty inside.
Speaker 3: I didn't get that.
Speaker 1: Right, you know.
Speaker 2: And I just want to really point out because I
Speaker 2: don't know if everyone understands by your mom dropping you
Speaker 2: off at the bus stop, which is a very in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, it was a big deal to teach you
Speaker 2: that lesson because people don't take public transportation here if
Speaker 2: you have cars and if your parents can, and so
Speaker 2: she hurt like.
Speaker 1: That to me.
Speaker 3: She was a very on purpose woman. Yes, she really.
Speaker 4: In New York, she would have her driver and I'd say,
Speaker 4: I'll be right there. She said, I'm not go take
Speaker 4: the subway and then you'll meet me where we're going.
Speaker 4: And I said, Mom, you have a driver. She said, yes,
Speaker 4: but you need to know how to function. I need
Speaker 4: you to learn how to function in life, and it's okay.
Speaker 1: So when you do fly, yes, and wow did you fly?
Speaker 1: And what a career in life you've created for yourself.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm grateful that you know. Now I look back,
Speaker 4: she used to this is what I love. I was
Speaker 4: just a tomboy from the beginning. And I would skateboard
Speaker 4: and i'd skateboard with all the guys. And she'd dropped
Speaker 4: me off in Venice and then she leave me, and
Speaker 4: then she'd come back and pick me up. And then
Speaker 4: one day, right when I was going to go into
Speaker 4: a skateboarding tournament, she said, you can't skate here anymore.
Speaker 3: And I said, why wait, I'm going to win this.
Speaker 4: She said, Nicole, it's getting dangerous and I'm actually not
Speaker 4: being a responsible person by letting you come down here.
Speaker 4: It's just not okay, even with some of the adults
Speaker 4: looking out. It's changing.
Speaker 3: And it did.
Speaker 4: Venice used to be the best beating. Venice Beach was great,
Speaker 4: the boardwalk was great. And so I'm just so grateful
Speaker 4: that I didn't understand it when I was growing up,
Speaker 4: and I didn't necessary really appreciated either. It's not of
Speaker 4: as do mindsight as everything, and she I love the
Speaker 4: fact that she was so on purpose about life and
Speaker 4: about understanding people and different people and different situations and
Speaker 4: the importance of making sure that I saw everyone in
Speaker 4: everything so that it would change me as I was
Speaker 4: a voter. Later, Yeah, of course, you have to be
Speaker 4: around people that you're voting for other people.
Speaker 3: That's what she'd say. Most of the time, you're going
Speaker 3: to be fine, but most of these people aren't.
Speaker 4: So when you vote, it can't just be about you
Speaker 4: and your attacks, and it has to be about everybody.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it might be a conservative vote, sometimes it might
Speaker 4: be a progressive vote.
Speaker 3: You don't know which one.
Speaker 4: But I have to put you out in different situations
Speaker 4: and hopefully you'll.
Speaker 3: Take the lesson.
Speaker 1: The book your story.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, you lost your mom in a
Speaker 2: horrific way, and she was a hero, even in that
Speaker 2: moment in which I didn't realize until you wrote, you know,
Speaker 2: like she could have said and screamed out for your father,
Speaker 2: mister Yvonne, who I got to see because he would
Speaker 2: come into the restaurant that I worked in for lunch.
Speaker 1: And it was always a big deal of it, and
Speaker 1: you know, and pay respect.
Speaker 2: He was, you know, just always a little hard to
Speaker 2: read because you know when he smiled at you, you
Speaker 2: just knew it just warmed you. You talk about your mom,
Speaker 2: you know, and I love this, you know, being genuine, feminine,
Speaker 2: being a multitasker, an intuitive, a problem solve, an EmPATH,
Speaker 2: a person who impresses, who inspires was one of my
Speaker 2: mother's superpowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she truly loved being alive.
Speaker 2: And I think that is just an incredible to be
Speaker 2: raised by a woman that those are her superpowers.
Speaker 1: And what's It's really.
Speaker 2: Funny that you share or the time she had to
Speaker 2: remind you so like tell us about like, which I
Speaker 2: love like. And I even talked to Eva, my fifteen
Speaker 2: year old, after I read this thing. When you didn't
Speaker 2: get up after you making the T shirts in the eighties,
Speaker 2: say goodbye, tell the lesson.
Speaker 3: She just it was so funny because I thought I
Speaker 3: was having a great time and I was like, bye bye,
Speaker 3: Anne a a good day.
Speaker 4: And I'm just sitting there making T shirts and putting
Speaker 4: those little beads that we've done in bed As Beach,
Speaker 4: and we'd cut the T shirts and make all these
Speaker 4: we all wanted to be Cher and pat Atuitar and whatever.
Speaker 4: So we're making the T shirts and her mom comes
Speaker 4: together and she leaves, and it I didn't go to
Speaker 4: the door.
Speaker 3: My mom always taught me to go to the door.
Speaker 3: I figured, Okay, well I already say goodbye. My mom's
Speaker 3: at the door. It's no big deal.
Speaker 4: Oh no, my mother is like pulled my ear and
Speaker 4: I said, what is what? She said, You don't have
Speaker 4: a friend who's leaving and her mother's at the door.
Speaker 4: Get up and say goodbye. Someone is leaving your home.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I thought, oh god, you and your rules
Speaker 3: and you're so proper. You said this.
Speaker 4: And now I look at her and I'm thinking, of
Speaker 4: course she did, because you know, she'd always say to me,
Speaker 4: everybody wants a great society, but everyone thinks that you
Speaker 4: don't get a good society with bad manners.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 3: You just don't. You think you do, you don't.
Speaker 2: And so when I said that to Ava in the
Speaker 2: car yesterday, she was like, well, I mean times have
Speaker 2: sort of changed.
Speaker 1: I go, No, that nothing's changed about that, you know.
Speaker 2: So when your friends leave, I go, I would appreciate,
Speaker 2: you know, let me know that they're leaving, so I
Speaker 2: could say goodbye to them, you know, And then you.
Speaker 1: Know, and this is another great.
Speaker 2: Quote, and she says and then she was like, okay,
Speaker 2: like you know, and I said, because it's important to
Speaker 2: acknowledge that, to say hello, to say goodbye. And I said, look,
Speaker 2: I grew up saying mister or missus to all my parents'
Speaker 2: friends and my friend's friends.
Speaker 1: Wasn't like, hey, no, I'm like no, So nico are
Speaker 1: you're right? Which you know?
Speaker 2: So Nicole and I have this word douchebag that we love,
Speaker 2: and we've once gone to a conversation years ago about
Speaker 2: the douchebags that surround us, some of them you know,
Speaker 2: and but you you talk about badass And I think
Speaker 2: this is so great.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to read this again. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: why we now.
Speaker 2: Often consider raising kids are running a household or supporting
Speaker 2: our partner things. My mother excelled at and extolled the
Speaker 2: virtues of negatives, which I agree that's the toughest job.
Speaker 2: It's the toughest job some awful women being bad asses,
Speaker 2: but there's a balance to be achieved. You're a badass
Speaker 2: and you have a kid who's bullying other kids at school,
Speaker 2: what does that say about you? Doesn't sound very badass.
Speaker 2: To me, it's actually pretty pathetic. Do you want to
Speaker 2: be the bad badass or do you want to raise
Speaker 2: your kid to not be an asshole?
Speaker 1: That the badass should be icing, not the cake. I
Speaker 1: love that MO was.
Speaker 4: In that love it because you know my my parents
Speaker 4: this way.
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of things on that. One is
Speaker 3: I do remember that day at the palm, that night
Speaker 3: when we just.
Speaker 4: Because we were trying to figure out, we figured out.
Speaker 4: We kept calling people all these saf why would they
Speaker 4: do that? Why would they do this? Because we're all
Speaker 4: so stuck on the why people do things? And I
Speaker 4: think you and I really connected on this level of
Speaker 4: some people just mean. Some people are mean.
Speaker 3: They are there's mean spirited people, period, end of story.
Speaker 3: That just let's own that.
Speaker 4: You know, my mom used to say to me, good
Speaker 4: people do good things, kind people do kind things. Thieves steel,
Speaker 4: mean people are mean, you know, bullies, bully that. You
Speaker 4: have words for these people and there's a decision that
Speaker 4: they make.
Speaker 3: I think we're so focused on. I wonder what kind
Speaker 3: of childhood they had.
Speaker 4: I wonder what I know so many people, as do you,
Speaker 4: that have had the worst childhoods, that have every reason
Speaker 4: to be mean, to be cold, to be distant, and
Speaker 4: to harm, and they don't because they chose not to,
Speaker 4: because they made a decision. And I wish, I hope
Speaker 4: that we can all kind of shift the focus of
Speaker 4: who is doing the right thing? Who are the people
Speaker 4: who are working three jobs a day and nothing is
Speaker 4: fair to them, and they're trying to put their kids
Speaker 4: into good school and they're trying to do the right thing,
Speaker 4: and society doesn't show up for them, government doesn't show
Speaker 4: up for them, nothing, and they're still choosing to be good.
Speaker 4: And I think that's why I loved how you just landed.
Speaker 4: You're the one who said maybe some people were just
Speaker 4: douche backs. I thought it was I knew I loved
Speaker 4: you in that moment. I said, Oh, he's my friend forever.
Speaker 4: And my mom, going back to that bullying part, she
Speaker 4: would always say to me, the one time I knew
Speaker 4: I was in trouble, perus no matter what. And I
Speaker 4: never did it, but she said, if I ever find
Speaker 4: out that you were hurting somebody on purpose, that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I would say, what does that's it mean? What
Speaker 4: does that mean?
Speaker 3: She said, Oh, you'll see, that's it because those are
Speaker 3: not our values.
Speaker 4: You don't have to like everybody, you don't have to
Speaker 4: be friends with everybody, but you do not have the
Speaker 4: right to disrespect someone else's soul because you feel like it.
Speaker 3: You don't get to do that. I'm not raising you
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 4: And she always wanted to be able to look in
Speaker 4: the mirror and say, regardless of how Nicole and Alex
Speaker 4: decide to behave in the world, I have to be
Speaker 4: able to look at myself in the mirror and know
Speaker 4: that I was committed to raising them the right way.
Speaker 3: Whether they choose to listen to me or not is
Speaker 3: up to them.
Speaker 4: But she really was focused on I have to be
Speaker 4: able to look at myself in the mirror and know
Speaker 4: that I did my job, and my job is to
Speaker 4: raise decent people who can go into society and be
Speaker 4: civil and be good and serve others and do whatever
Speaker 4: they want.
Speaker 3: But you can't be an asshole.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: She had no tolerance for anybody who was. I remember
Speaker 4: one time I got punished in Washington, DC. We went
Speaker 4: on a family trip and I didn't hold the door
Speaker 4: open for the person behind me. I was just yak
Speaker 4: yak yaking with my friends and my father looked at
Speaker 4: me like as I had committed the worst crime, and
Speaker 4: I said, what did you see?
Speaker 3: That person behind you?
Speaker 4: Go? Oh, Dad, I'm sorry. Okay, not a big deal.
Speaker 4: And I said, mistakenly, dude, not a big deal. That
Speaker 4: was a big mistake. Did you actually say dude?
Speaker 1: I said dude because.
Speaker 4: It was such a skateboarder and I would pick up
Speaker 4: all this slang from the surfers and the skateboarders. And
Speaker 4: my father said, what'd you call it? I said, Dad, whatever,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, and he said I said, I didn't do
Speaker 4: it on purpose. He said, no, but you you have to.
Speaker 4: You can't slip like that a lot. You can't, you,
Speaker 4: you know. And I'm happy he gave me that habit
Speaker 4: because I've of course done that as an adult where
Speaker 4: I oh my god, I'm on the phone.
Speaker 3: And I did it a couple of years ago and
Speaker 3: I ran after the woman. I go, she had a stroller,
Speaker 3: a baby and a stroller.
Speaker 4: And I slammed the door on her and I said,
Speaker 4: I am so sorry, and good for her because she'd
Speaker 4: still give me stink eye, which she showed have It's fine,
Speaker 4: but I had to apologize for myself.
Speaker 3: I said, I just want you to know I am
Speaker 3: sorry for that.
Speaker 4: And after, you know, she realized she gave me stink guy,
Speaker 4: and then she smiled later because I think I scared
Speaker 4: her because.
Speaker 3: She had a baby.
Speaker 5: Did I get it right?
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Table for two.
Speaker 2: Nicole was appointed Ambassador to the Bahamas in two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine. Like many of us, it wasn't always easy
Speaker 2: to balance life and work. In her book, Nicole writes
Speaker 2: honestly about one challenging event during this time. You paint
Speaker 2: many beautiful pictures in your memoir, and you're welcome and
Speaker 2: thank you, because I will say it really made me
Speaker 2: think a lot about my life, my life and service.
Speaker 2: Being a parent one of the things you talk about,
Speaker 2: and you're very vulnerable. It's a real thing when you
Speaker 2: you know. So, Nicole was appointed to be the US
Speaker 2: Ambassador to the Bahamas under President Obama. You tell a
Speaker 2: story of when Ted Ted is Nicole's husband, Ted Sorrando's
Speaker 2: if you don't.
Speaker 1: Know, and your reaction to when his mother passed.
Speaker 2: And that was a really interesting story for me to
Speaker 2: read because I understood it and then I understood too,
Speaker 2: which it led to the choice of I have to
Speaker 2: go home because this is now going to have to
Speaker 2: make a choice between my family and my career. And
Speaker 2: even though that is unfair at times, but you know,
Speaker 2: if it was a career that was here, you know,
Speaker 2: down the block, you want to can you kind of
Speaker 2: talk about that and share because I think it's as
Speaker 2: a very vulnerable, real moment.
Speaker 4: That's why I wanted to put it in the book
Speaker 4: because I think I want to use myself as an example.
Speaker 4: So I didn't feel like, you know, I'm sitting on
Speaker 4: some soapbox telling people how to live and don't do this.
Speaker 4: And I was like, let me put in my own
Speaker 4: mistakes right, so that hopefully people don't feel so alone
Speaker 4: in their mistakes.
Speaker 3: Or you know what have you And a reminder we're
Speaker 3: all human.
Speaker 4: We're all going to slip, even with people with the
Speaker 4: best hearts and the best intentions. We all have smudge
Speaker 4: and we all slip right smudge and we're human, all
Speaker 4: of us. And so yeah, so I was serving as
Speaker 4: a US ambassador to the Bahamas, and everything was new
Speaker 4: for me. It was a new marriage. I mean ten
Speaker 4: and I date courted nine months and then we got married.
Speaker 3: I had two, you.
Speaker 4: Know, beautiful step children, and but I moved to a
Speaker 4: new country with a new job and a new home,
Speaker 4: no friends, no nobody, big deal. It was a big deal,
Speaker 4: and I didn't realize until I got there in the
Speaker 4: first week, got like thinking, oh, wow, right, I don't
Speaker 4: I don't know anybody here. And Ted was flying back
Speaker 4: and forth and he and the kids did not move
Speaker 4: there permanently with me, which is usually because I was young.
Speaker 4: You know, you have most ambassadors, I mean I was
Speaker 4: forty years old, and you know, most ambassadors start, you know,
Speaker 4: do that job later in life, and I understand why.
Speaker 4: But the opportunity showed up, so I took it. And
Speaker 4: but once I got my sea legs because I loved
Speaker 4: the job so much, and I saw the differences that
Speaker 4: the whole embassy team was making, and they.
Speaker 3: All worked so hard before I got there.
Speaker 4: After I left him, it was a great team, and
Speaker 4: we were so excited about this one delegation. And then
Speaker 4: I completely slipped into ego mode and Ted loses his
Speaker 4: mom suddenly. I mean, she wasn't in the best health,
Speaker 4: but we did not expect for her to pass away
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 3: He was called to Arizona to check on her, and
Speaker 3: she died. When Ted was there.
Speaker 4: I mean it was he went downstairs, I think to
Speaker 4: get something to Eatie.
Speaker 3: Came up and she's gone.
Speaker 4: And what he needed and obviously any of us in
Speaker 4: a partner was empathy and gentleness and kindness. And I
Speaker 4: you know, I was in the car with the driver
Speaker 4: and the security guard and they could hear me speaking
Speaker 4: to Ted, and I love them for being letting me
Speaker 4: know suddenly like you're off, lady, like what do.
Speaker 3: You what are you doing?
Speaker 4: And you know, Rubin never said anything. It was the
Speaker 4: greatest and always calm and cool. And I could just
Speaker 4: see the stinky coming back to me in.
Speaker 3: The rear of the mirror, like what is wrong with everybody?
Speaker 3: But I had said to Ted.
Speaker 4: He called to tell me that Sue had died, and
Speaker 4: I said, I'm so sorry this and that, and then
Speaker 4: my ego just took over and I said, well, wait
Speaker 4: a minute, when do you think the.
Speaker 3: Service is going to be?
Speaker 4: And of course Ted is shaking and thinking, not even
Speaker 4: thinking of that, He said, well, I don't know anything.
Speaker 4: I mean, she just asked away, and I said, well,
Speaker 4: I mean, I hope it's not next week.
Speaker 3: I hope it's not during this time. I mean, we
Speaker 3: have a delegation, Teddy, we have people coming.
Speaker 4: From Washington and it's very important, and you know, we're
Speaker 4: talking about traffic, and I'm going on and on about myself,
Speaker 4: about my job, everything excepted everything, accept his grief, everything
Speaker 4: except what he needed.
Speaker 3: And it was the.
Speaker 4: Height of selfishness. And I didn't even recognize it. And again,
Speaker 4: thank god, the team around me did.
Speaker 3: And I walked.
Speaker 4: Upstairs, like I say in the book, and I'm looking
Speaker 4: in the Mirror'm like, what is wrong with everybody?
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the dog, going what is everyone of
Speaker 3: an attitude for?
Speaker 4: And then I look at myself in the mirror, and
Speaker 4: I swear to you, I did not recognize myself.
Speaker 3: And I thought, oh my god, I've become that character.
Speaker 4: I've become that person we see in movies we read
Speaker 4: about where nothing else matters, accept the job, nothing else matters,
Speaker 4: accept whatever they want. And it was a turning point
Speaker 4: for me, and I of course immediately called ted and
Speaker 4: I apologized, and I but I really had to look
Speaker 4: at myself and say, wait a minute, Okay, this is
Speaker 4: a this is two things that these are both true.
Speaker 4: And I had almost been on the job for two years,
Speaker 4: so I had one more year, because you know, I
Speaker 4: went in at the end of twenty ten, and in
Speaker 4: that moment, it helped me.
Speaker 3: Transition to.
Speaker 4: Where I was going to move forward and how I
Speaker 4: was going to move forward to what you said of
Speaker 4: making a decision in that moment, as hard as it was,
Speaker 4: and sacrifice, by the way, is different for everybody. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, I'm not going to war. I mean,
Speaker 4: that's the biggest sacrifice and fighting. But I was fighting
Speaker 4: for my family, yes, And I had to say to myself,
Speaker 4: and I knew where I was going because I wanted
Speaker 4: to stay the extra year and I knew we would
Speaker 4: even get better, and I knew the embassy was going
Speaker 4: to get stronger.
Speaker 3: And then I thought, and then I'm going to go
Speaker 3: to d C.
Speaker 4: I mean, I could see myself pulling myself away from
Speaker 4: my family, and I saw a new version of myself
Speaker 4: that really had Oh well, they'll have to figure it out,
Speaker 4: ted Antoni and Sarah. We'll have to figure it out.
Speaker 4: And I thought, wait a minute, Oh no, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: I have to this back and what is important to
Speaker 4: me and who was important to me. And it was
Speaker 4: the best decision I made. I came home for him
Speaker 4: for us, it wasn't just for Ted, it was for me.
Speaker 4: That's what I had to realize. It didn't come home
Speaker 4: for Ted, I came.
Speaker 1: Home for me exactly.
Speaker 4: I always wanted a family more than anything in the world.
Speaker 4: I wanted to be with my best friend. I wanted
Speaker 4: to be married to a best friend, and I wanted
Speaker 4: a family. You have to be aware when you did
Speaker 4: step into right ship. You have to be aware of
Speaker 4: when you miss the mark.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: That's what sin means, actually just means miss the mark.
Speaker 4: It means a mistake, and you have to be aware
Speaker 4: enough to know, Oh my god, wait a minute, you know.
Speaker 4: And and to your point, it's again going back to fragility.
Speaker 4: We're all fragile. We don't know what anyone's going through.
Speaker 4: And this has been a huge lesson for me of
Speaker 4: just it's not about the benefit of the doubt, because that's.
Speaker 3: Got to me in trouble. But you know, I think
Speaker 3: love when we say we have to love each other.
Speaker 4: For me and I try to teach Tony and Sarah
Speaker 4: this respect is the highest form of love. And what
Speaker 4: people really really want more than anything in the world
Speaker 4: is respect.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: In your book, you quote scripture often, and you quote
Speaker 2: incredible pieces of scripture.
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize.
Speaker 2: That scripture was such, you know, with such a big
Speaker 2: piece of you, and it was so surprising in a
Speaker 2: wonderful way. Can you talk to me a little bit
Speaker 2: about you?
Speaker 4: You know. I love that you asked that, because so
Speaker 4: many people have said that, and there are people who said,
Speaker 4: I've never even seen the scripture before, and it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: And you didn't shove religion down anybody.
Speaker 1: You just picked scripture, and scripture is poetry.
Speaker 4: Buddhas scripture is poetry, Christian scripture, the Torah, this is
Speaker 4: all of it. It's it's all for character building, and
Speaker 4: it's really there to help all of us reframe our.
Speaker 3: Minds and really think in a new way. It does,
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what it's there for.
Speaker 4: And for me, I thought, if I'm going to write
Speaker 4: all of this and it's a very personal book, but
Speaker 4: this has to be a part of the book. And
Speaker 4: so I just we made the decision of you know,
Speaker 4: every lesson that I put in that I had to
Speaker 4: learn or what I was taught, if it's in scripture,
Speaker 4: let's put the scripture in and I think it.
Speaker 3: What I love is.
Speaker 4: That it goes back to my mom being a woman
Speaker 4: of faith.
Speaker 3: She was not a religious woman. She loved all religion.
Speaker 4: She loved you know, she raised me with in Christianity, sure,
Speaker 4: but she opened.
Speaker 3: Up every good book.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: My mom was a lover of the world. She was
Speaker 3: a lover of culture. I love that she gave me that.
Speaker 3: I mean, she gave me a team, you know, the
Speaker 3: prairie that that now I leat me down to sleep.
Speaker 4: I prayed to the Lord may sole to keep if
Speaker 4: it should die before I wake, I prayed.
Speaker 3: To Lord my soul to take.
Speaker 4: That was the only main prayer she gave me. There
Speaker 4: was no religion, there was nothing attached to it. So
Speaker 4: I never had a fear of the universe. I never
Speaker 4: had a fear of source.
Speaker 3: I never had. I never thought it was some man
Speaker 3: with a cane who I never had.
Speaker 4: That. She just made it very easy. And then you know,
Speaker 4: first Philippians eleven. You know, may you always be doing
Speaker 4: those good kind things that show you're a child of
Speaker 4: God like simple where she was focused mostly on the
Speaker 4: character of a person and reminded me of you think
Speaker 4: this is around every continent, just because every place in
Speaker 4: the world has some scripture to remind its people to
Speaker 4: return to love, to return to mercy, to return to service. Yes,
Speaker 4: and it's just a good reminder, so I wanted to
Speaker 4: sprinkle it throughout the bulk.
Speaker 1: You sprinkle it. Great. What do you put into the
Speaker 1: universe now?
Speaker 2: Now that you've experienced this sort of you've gone through
Speaker 2: an archway, you've gone through a new door.
Speaker 1: What's the universe? What's the world to you? Now?
Speaker 3: It's that's a great question.
Speaker 4: It is a space now where I have walked through
Speaker 4: this new portal, like you said, and this new door,
Speaker 4: and I am more grateful than ever. It's especially when
Speaker 4: both parents leave you realize, oh wow, okay, of course
Speaker 4: you don't want paper, and you feel like, yes, they're
Speaker 4: my parents that gave me in life. But then when
Speaker 4: they're gone, you realize, oh right, I'm the energy that
Speaker 4: carries on. I'm the energy that now shows up and
Speaker 4: reminds everybody of them.
Speaker 3: So then I have to decide, well, then how am
Speaker 3: I showing up?
Speaker 4: And my mom, like I say in the book, loved
Speaker 4: being alive so much that I need to be alive.
Speaker 3: And can with the universe and it's various different ways.
Speaker 4: You know, I walk in the gardens more because my
Speaker 4: dad and I created new habits for him.
Speaker 3: One of them was him walking in the garden. You know.
Speaker 4: Then he started doing all his exercises outside. He exercised
Speaker 4: up until the day, you know, right before he got
Speaker 4: sick and left, and he started counting airplanes and taking
Speaker 4: just taking a beat of you know, how many airplanes
Speaker 4: just flew over that I didn't even know. I've lived
Speaker 4: there for seven years, never even heard an airplane, never
Speaker 4: looked up in the sky. And I thought, all right,
Speaker 4: these are new things that He's given me. And I
Speaker 4: I look at life. I always have looked at life
Speaker 4: as a gift.
Speaker 3: I really have. But I think all of us forget
Speaker 3: to open it.
Speaker 4: You know, it is a gift. The present is a gift. Yes,
Speaker 4: I know it sounds but it is. But half of
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 3: I never even opened the gift, you know, I didn't
Speaker 3: unwrap it.
Speaker 4: And I focus now on really my friends and the
Speaker 4: people who deposit good things into my I want to
Speaker 4: spend time with my friends, I want to spend time
Speaker 4: with their families. I want to be helpful, but I
Speaker 4: also know that and you'll feel this. There's a legacy
Speaker 4: to continue because a baton is passed to you. It's
Speaker 4: an energetic baton, but it's passed. And what I've learned
Speaker 4: is the greatest way to honor people who have passed,
Speaker 4: especially your family members, is to what I started to
Speaker 4: do is I do everything. It's helped me with my
Speaker 4: grief too. Everything that my mom loved I do. So
Speaker 4: I listened to the music she loves. I listened to
Speaker 4: I watched the TV shows she loved. I watch movies
Speaker 4: that she loved. I now listen to dou g Ellington
Speaker 4: and Frank Sinatra every day because my dad was obsessed.
Speaker 4: And I love history, all history, all American history and
Speaker 4: history around the world. And so I started to now
Speaker 4: show up as someone more curious, someone more patient. Patience
Speaker 4: was a big lesson for me in this lifetime. I'm
Speaker 4: more patient and gentleness was ever something.
Speaker 3: And you know, my mom would give me the greatest sauce,
Speaker 3: and I thought about it today.
Speaker 4: I'm a very loyal person and my mom was extremely devoted,
Speaker 4: and at one of our last lunches, I said to her,
Speaker 4: I hope I can move to the space where I'm
Speaker 4: as devoted to you, because there is a difference between
Speaker 4: devotion and loyalty. And she looked at me and she
Speaker 4: said she was eighty one and she said, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't regret being devoted, but if you choose devotion,
Speaker 4: make sure boundaries come with it.
Speaker 3: And it floored me.
Speaker 4: I said what she said, If I can do it
Speaker 4: all over again, I would still be a devoted woman,
Speaker 4: but I would put up boundaries with my devotion because
Speaker 4: people took advantage of my devotion and because when you're devoted,
Speaker 4: you show up no matter what, and it's though, no
Speaker 4: matter what, that's the you know, loyal, I'm loyal, but
Speaker 4: there's a there's a consequence. Yeah, there's a oh you're
Speaker 4: gonna do that. Devotion just shows up, yeah, all the
Speaker 4: time and at any time of the day, and it's
Speaker 4: a beautiful thing. But she said, if I could do
Speaker 4: it again, I would still stay devoted, but I would
Speaker 4: have boundaries.
Speaker 3: And it was such a good what yes lesson for me? Wow?
Speaker 4: And she said, you know there has to be You
Speaker 4: don't want to change your spirit for other people, and
Speaker 4: you don't want to change your heart for other people,
Speaker 4: but if they cannot show up and if they're constantly
Speaker 4: using you and disrespecting you and devaluing you. Yes, you
Speaker 4: have to put a boundary up that says I love you.
Speaker 3: And I wish you well. But no more, no more.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 4: I'm not because she said it. She said it was
Speaker 4: such a heavy burden. And when I asked her, God,
Speaker 4: do you have any burdens? Do you have any regrets?
Speaker 4: She said, I really don't. The only regret is I
Speaker 4: wish I would have taken care of myself better in
Speaker 4: that way.
Speaker 3: I said, But you took great care of yourself.
Speaker 6: She goes, not so much with the boundary.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Table for two. In Nicole
Speaker 2: Avon's new memoir, she tackles loss and grief in a.
Speaker 1: Very vulnerable way.
Speaker 2: Her mother, Missus Avon, was murdered in a home invasion
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. Something Nicole explores is what she
Speaker 2: calls the dash. And I think it's a concept we
Speaker 2: can all find inspiring. You talk about, I think, which
Speaker 2: is really important, the sort of idea that we.
Speaker 1: All are going to die, That is the thing that
Speaker 1: we all share. You know, we can live in fear
Speaker 1: of it, we can come to terms with it.
Speaker 2: You know, and it's really about, as you say, the dash,
Speaker 2: the births in the end, And I think that's an
Speaker 2: important thing just to remember. You don't you don't have
Speaker 2: to live in that, but you have the responsibility to
Speaker 2: live the dash.
Speaker 1: You want to live and be the best Dash you can.
Speaker 2: And you talk about to accomplish big things, to change
Speaker 2: the world. You have to see the magic in the
Speaker 2: moment and take what it offers you because you never
Speaker 2: know when your name is gonna get called. That was
Speaker 2: a really beautiful way to say it for me to
Speaker 2: read it, because there were many times I was always
Speaker 2: so afraid of the day. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: How do you feel like your own my own dash? Yeah,
Speaker 2: your own dad and you and your last day which
Speaker 2: you know your own which one day?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 1: And I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Hope we have our jewelry, right, but I'm afraid of
Speaker 2: who's going to take my jewelry?
Speaker 1: Nicole?
Speaker 3: You know it's Mama.
Speaker 4: I said, you come into this world alone and you
Speaker 4: leave this world alone.
Speaker 3: Really, Mom, is that it? But she's so right. When
Speaker 3: she left and my dad left, everything else stayed, They
Speaker 3: left with nothing, nothing, everything's just there.
Speaker 1: So wild you really just you're gone you're gone. You're gone,
Speaker 1: and right now.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, and no one you know. I think
Speaker 3: this is the reason we all say, don't you say this?
Speaker 4: Don't you find yourself saying this when you hear about
Speaker 4: someone And the first reaction is, I just saw them.
Speaker 3: What do you mean they died? I just saw them.
Speaker 3: I just saw them.
Speaker 4: Because we all go back to, what do you mean
Speaker 4: that that energy stopped?
Speaker 3: What do you mean it stocked? I just saw them. Everybody,
Speaker 3: everybody who has passed away. My first reaction is, what
Speaker 3: do you mean she died? I just saw her. I
Speaker 3: just read something on her in a magazine. What do
Speaker 3: you mean?
Speaker 4: And I remember having a dinner at a friend's house
Speaker 4: and Jackie Collins was one of the dinner guests, and
Speaker 4: I did not know she was sick because she didn't
Speaker 4: tell anybody she was sick, and she didn't talk about
Speaker 4: her sickness. So when she passed away, I said, what
Speaker 4: do you mean I just had dinner with her a
Speaker 4: month ago? What?
Speaker 3: But I love that she showed up until the end
Speaker 3: to the.
Speaker 4: Best of her ability and lived, you know, And I
Speaker 4: think that we're all, you know, unfortunately reminded, especially when
Speaker 4: the more tragic than we're reminded of just our own
Speaker 4: fragility of you know, the people in Maine, for example,
Speaker 4: they all were going bowling and playing, but what really,
Speaker 4: you know, you can't process it, you can't fathom it.
Speaker 4: And we all hope that we pass away, you know,
Speaker 4: with our favorite last meal and with our family surrounding
Speaker 4: us and in peace.
Speaker 3: We all hope that. Sure, I hope that for the world.
Speaker 3: The truth is, it just doesn't happen that way.
Speaker 4: And so I think for me that's helped me is
Speaker 4: to own the fact that part of living is passing over.
Speaker 4: It's part of the living. It's not one or the other.
Speaker 4: It's part of your circle of life. Yes, part of
Speaker 4: your circle of life is you will transition and you
Speaker 4: will go wherever. But that is you can escape it.
Speaker 4: Every single one of us is going to leave this
Speaker 4: earth at some point. And so and the beauty I
Speaker 4: think of life is that we do get to reinvent
Speaker 4: ourselves over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: My grandmother used to always remind me the Lord's mercies
Speaker 3: are new every single day.
Speaker 4: No matter what mistake you've made, no matter who you
Speaker 4: were yesterday, doesn't mean that you don't have to take.
Speaker 4: You know, the consequences to your actions won't happen. Redemption
Speaker 4: can either happen. They can happen behind a jail cell too.
Speaker 3: I've seen that. I've done a lot. I've worked with lots.
Speaker 4: Of people who go into prisons and do great work
Speaker 4: and try to help someone's character become better or do
Speaker 4: what ha you doesn't mean that person needs you back
Speaker 4: on the street necessarily, but you can. Sometimes your redemption
Speaker 4: is going to come behind a jail cell. That's okay,
Speaker 4: that's okay, that's okay. And and I do have a
Speaker 4: sense of urgency of life that I didn't have before.
Speaker 4: And I have a new relationship with the universe that
Speaker 4: I didn't have before.
Speaker 3: I am more.
Speaker 4: I'm not rushing through, but I am appreciating things at
Speaker 4: a different level because of the way my mom died,
Speaker 4: and it was so instant and violent and cruel, and
Speaker 4: it's so opposite because you know, she's eighty one and
Speaker 4: she lived in that house the whole time, and you know,
Speaker 4: for fifty four years and nothing ever came to that,
Speaker 4: there was no So it's just things changed.
Speaker 2: Yes, tell us about think You'll be happy. It's a
Speaker 2: beautiful title.
Speaker 1: To your mind.
Speaker 4: Thank you so think you'll be happy. Are the last
Speaker 4: words my mom said to me that day. I had
Speaker 4: called my mom a little bit before five, and my
Speaker 4: dad said that she was resting, and he goes, you know,
Speaker 4: she's very tired today, very upset today. And I said, Dad,
Speaker 4: I just realized why I go, because you know how
Speaker 4: mom gets when she hears about a school shooting.
Speaker 3: There's a school shooting in Michigan that day.
Speaker 4: And he goes and my father said, oh right, I'm
Speaker 4: watching it on the news.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Yes, your mom went to sleep, so call her later.
Speaker 4: So my last textar She texted me at eight oh
Speaker 4: one and I wrote her back, I'm so sorry I
Speaker 4: missed you earlier.
Speaker 3: Dad said you were.
Speaker 4: Sleeping, and she, of course, she was talking about me
Speaker 4: coming over the next day to pick up the sweet
Speaker 4: potato pie that she had brought bought to our house
Speaker 4: for Thanksgiving, and then my father, being Clarence, took the
Speaker 4: pie home with his leftovers and took our pie home.
Speaker 3: I never got a piece of the pie. And my
Speaker 3: mom was so weird about this pie, she said, Nicole.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I said, Mom, I love how you act as
Speaker 4: if you bake this pie yourself. I made sure, went
Speaker 4: to Bristol Farms, I'm sure, and bought the pie. She
Speaker 4: was very proud of this pie. So but she so
Speaker 4: she writes me a text and it's about the pie,
Speaker 4: and I write back, you know, I'll think about it.
Speaker 3: Sorry I missed you earlier. I'll think about it.
Speaker 4: I'll let you know tomorrow because we all think we
Speaker 4: have tomorrow. And her last words were, okay, I think
Speaker 4: you'll be happy. And then I got in the bath,
Speaker 4: I said my prayers, I took the dogs out and
Speaker 4: went to sleep, and six hours later woken up, get
Speaker 4: to the hospital. You know, da, da, And what I
Speaker 4: love about think you'll be happy is out of all
Speaker 4: the words that my mom could have said. In her
Speaker 4: last text, a I'm glad she responded. Sometimes we didn't
Speaker 4: always respond, and it gave me a mantra. It's almost
Speaker 4: now like a mantra for me to remind myself to
Speaker 4: renew my mind, to guard my heart, like scripture says,
Speaker 4: guard your heart. You know, all the issues of life
Speaker 4: come out of your heart, So your intentions should always
Speaker 4: be to have to be.
Speaker 3: Good hearted person.
Speaker 4: Doesn't mean you won't make mistakes, does not mean you
Speaker 4: won't hurt people does not mean but your intention is
Speaker 4: never to cause.
Speaker 3: Hert right, There's a difference. There's a difference.
Speaker 4: And I'm so happy because my mom always talked about
Speaker 4: be happy, you know. She always was so reminded me
Speaker 4: all the time that your words and your beliefs will
Speaker 4: help you shape your reality. So every time I came across, like,
Speaker 4: you know, a mountain in my life, you know, with
Speaker 4: the same issue, over the same lesson, I go, I
Speaker 4: don't understand why this is here. Should always say what
Speaker 4: are you thinking about? What are you thinking about? Because
Speaker 4: you keep thinking. I hope this person doesn't do that again.
Speaker 4: I hope this doesn't happen again. You're just putting out
Speaker 4: into the universe. It doesn't The universe doesn't know that
Speaker 4: you don't want to.
Speaker 3: It just picks up on whatever you're thinking about. So
Speaker 3: it just delivers what the thoughts are. So I don't
Speaker 3: want that. It's like, oh she wants this. It just
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 4: So I just told my friend today, like we're going
Speaker 4: to focus on what we want only, not what we
Speaker 4: don't want or not. I hope this person gets it.
Speaker 4: I hope they understand. No, we don't hope anything. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's all going to work out. Everything's going to work
Speaker 4: out the way it's supposed to work out. And I
Speaker 4: say that over and over again.
Speaker 2: My lunch with Nicole has been so moving and insightful.
Speaker 2: I also know that growing up in Beverly Hills with
Speaker 2: a father in the music industry, she knew some very
Speaker 2: interesting people. So I want to end today's lunch with
Speaker 2: a fun question.
Speaker 1: We're kind of wrapping up our lunch.
Speaker 2: But you did grow up at a time in the
Speaker 2: seventies and the eighties there were a lot of sort
Speaker 2: of heart throbs.
Speaker 1: You knew a lot of people. Is there any like
Speaker 1: who was like your big crush that you met that
Speaker 1: you were like?
Speaker 4: I mean the truth, I honestly wanted to make I
Speaker 4: thought for sure by the time I was seven years old,
Speaker 4: you could not tell me that I was not going
Speaker 4: to marry Randy Jackson. From the Jackson five there was
Speaker 4: it was just impossible that I was not going to
Speaker 4: marry Randy Jackson.
Speaker 3: Then of course I was.
Speaker 4: I was obsessed to the point where it's it's sickening,
Speaker 4: it's it's Michael Jordan, Michael, forget it. I I but
Speaker 4: I really as a child it was Sean Cassidy was
Speaker 4: actually at my He was a magician at my birthday party.
Speaker 3: Of course because his mom, again this is Beverly Hills.
Speaker 4: At the time, his mom was saying to my mom, oh,
Speaker 4: you know Sean and his friend. You know they have
Speaker 4: Cassadini's or whatever. And my mom said, when Nicole loves
Speaker 4: magic and I love that. His mom was like, well,
Speaker 4: he's a magician, hire him, pay him as a teenager.
Speaker 4: And there's this great photo of us. And Ted just
Speaker 4: met him and showed him wow, and he's like, that's true.
Speaker 3: And he remembered the house. He did, he remembered the house.
Speaker 1: It was really a very special moment that you grew
Speaker 1: up in. Yes, and to.
Speaker 3: Have all these great memories good would be the best.
Speaker 4: And again surely just I think they literally saw each
Speaker 4: other at the supermarket and it was just a conversation
Speaker 4: about their children.
Speaker 3: Oh well, Sean's doing this. My mom said, I want
Speaker 3: the cool loves magic. Let's have him be there.
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell everyone as we wrap.
Speaker 2: First of all, Nicole, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 2: the time and for having lunch with me and being
Speaker 2: on table for two And I hope everyone who pulled
Speaker 2: up but you're really enjoyed this.
Speaker 1: Your book, Think You'll Be Happy is an incredible memoir.
Speaker 2: And as we end, a memoir that's about loss and
Speaker 2: grief and love and celebration with laughter, it says everything
Speaker 2: you need to know about Nicole, because if you want.
Speaker 1: To have fun, you want someone who.
Speaker 2: If you're lucky enough to be able to call you
Speaker 2: friend in this life, you're a lucky person.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much, thank you for having me, and.
Speaker 2: I hope everyone enjoyed and have a great day.
Speaker 7: Table for two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio
Speaker 7: seven three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are
Speaker 7: Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Table for two is researched
Speaker 7: and written by Bridget arsenalt Our sound engineers are Paul
Speaker 7: Bowman and Alyssa Midcalf. Table for two's la production team
Speaker 7: is Danielle Romo and Lorraine Verrez. Our music supervisor is
Speaker 7: Randall poster. Our talent booking is by James Harkin.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
Speaker 2: Alison Kanter Raber, Barbara and Jen and Jeff Klein, and
Speaker 2: the staff at the Tower bar,