Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. I hope that you are staying safe and
Speaker 1: sane in these very challenging times. This episode is a
Speaker 1: special episode, and I put it together because I was
Speaker 1: hearing from a lot of people and feeling it in myself,
Speaker 1: anger about the way things are going with this whole situation.
Speaker 1: So hearing from a lot of health care workers have
Speaker 1: started doing one on one free work with health care workers,
Speaker 1: more to come about that in a minute, hearing from them,
Speaker 1: hearing from other people, feeling in myself and this anger
Speaker 1: that either the government's not handling this well, our institutions
Speaker 1: aren't handling it well, or individuals aren't handling it well.
Speaker 1: They aren't taking it seriously, and it's bringing up a
Speaker 1: lot of anger collectively. And so I thought it would
Speaker 1: be a good idea to have an episode where I
Speaker 1: got some previous guests back together to talk about how
Speaker 1: do we deal with anger skillfully? How do we deal
Speaker 1: with it in a way that doesn't promote more harm
Speaker 1: but allows us to use that anger in positive ways.
Speaker 1: So I reached to several guests at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the week and they were very wonderful and responding very quickly,
Speaker 1: and we were able to turn this around in just
Speaker 1: a few days and get it to you. So I'm
Speaker 1: very grateful to them, grateful to Chris for the quick editing,
Speaker 1: and I hope that this episode is helpful to you.
Speaker 1: And I also want to give a brief reminder of
Speaker 1: some of the things that we at the one you
Speaker 1: Feed are doing to try and be of support during
Speaker 1: this time, and you can get details on all these
Speaker 1: things at one you Feed dot net slash help. First,
Speaker 1: we are doing free weekly group coaching calls on Wednesdays
Speaker 1: at noon. We had our first one this last Wednesday
Speaker 1: and it was wonderful and I will do it again
Speaker 1: for the next several weeks. Details as I said, on
Speaker 1: how to join that are at when you feed dot
Speaker 1: net slash help. Secondly, I am doing free coaching sessions
Speaker 1: for healthcare workers. There's only a few spots remaining. I've
Speaker 1: gotten a pretty overwhelming response to that and I'm working
Speaker 1: with a lot of people, but there are still some opportunities,
Speaker 1: so free coach sessions for healthcare workers. And then also
Speaker 1: I am giving discounts and offering payment plans on all
Speaker 1: of the one on one coaching and spiritual habits program,
Speaker 1: so that if you need some additional support during this time.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make it a little bit more affordable
Speaker 1: and a little bit easier to access. And as I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, details on all these things are at one
Speaker 1: you Feed, dot Net, splash help, And if you're not
Speaker 1: connected to us via email list or social media, this
Speaker 1: is a great time to do it, because we are
Speaker 1: using those channels to announce other things that we are
Speaker 1: doing to provide support in these times. So you can
Speaker 1: join our email list and get links to all our
Speaker 1: social media off of that same page. So I wish
Speaker 1: you the best in staying safe and sane, be good
Speaker 1: to yourself, be good to others. All the things that
Speaker 1: we've talked about and learned about. Feeding our good wolf
Speaker 1: is especially important in these times that I'd encourage you
Speaker 1: to lean on those learnings, lean on those practices because
Speaker 1: we need them more than ever. Thanks so much, and
Speaker 1: let me know how we can help. If you have
Speaker 1: other ideas that we've not thought of, police, feel free
Speaker 1: to let us know. Take care by first stop is
Speaker 1: Rick Hansen. Rick is the founder of the well Spring
Speaker 1: Institute for Neuroscience and Contemplated Wisdom and an affiliate of
Speaker 1: the Greater Good Science Center. At UC Berkeley. He's been
Speaker 1: an invited speaker at Oxford, Stanford, and Harvard, and taught
Speaker 1: in meditation centers worldwide. Hi, Rick, it is a pleasure
Speaker 1: to have you back on. I'm always happy when you
Speaker 1: and I get a chance to talk today. What I'd
Speaker 1: like to talk with you about is, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the things I'm getting listeners telling me about and
Speaker 1: healthcare workers that I'm doing some work with, is this
Speaker 1: some anger that they're feeling about the way people in
Speaker 1: the world are handling this. Either they're not taking it seriously,
Speaker 1: they're not doing social distancing, They're doing things that people
Speaker 1: feel like are putting other people at risk. And the
Speaker 1: response that comes up out of that is anger. And
Speaker 1: so I'm just looking for some ideas for people how
Speaker 1: to work with that anger more skillfully. Well, it's it's
Speaker 1: a really natural response, and it's important for everyone to
Speaker 1: realize what you and these healthcare workers already know, which
Speaker 1: is that our actions have life and death consequences these
Speaker 1: days for others, not just for ourselves. Maybe we're in
Speaker 1: a low risk group, maybe we can afford to get ill,
Speaker 1: but think about the person you pass it on to
Speaker 1: inadvertently before you're even symptomatic, and who then passes it
Speaker 1: on someone else inadvertently, who then passes it on to
Speaker 1: an older person who dies as a result. It's let
Speaker 1: that chain of domino. So it's really important for us
Speaker 1: all to hold other people in our heart and remember that.
Speaker 1: And so obviously it's natural to get angry when we
Speaker 1: see people who aren't doing that, or we get angry
Speaker 1: about the two months or so we've wasted as a country,
Speaker 1: mainly even when the alarm bells were flashing bright red
Speaker 1: from National Secure Already experts and public health experts in
Speaker 1: early January. So that's very natural. Anger is normal. I
Speaker 1: say this as a neuropsychologist and evolutionary neuropsychologist. Anger is
Speaker 1: very normal. It's a coping response, okay, but we pay
Speaker 1: a price for it. So what to do about it?
Speaker 1: One is to be mindful of your anger, notice what
Speaker 1: it feels like, and in particular, try to tune into
Speaker 1: the primary body sensations and the emotions of anger rather
Speaker 1: than the righteous case, the slooping and looping inside your
Speaker 1: mind that is calming right there. Second, what's underneath the anger?
Speaker 1: Maybe it's fear for yourself, Maybe it's worried for others.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a sense that's been built up over years
Speaker 1: of feeling like the public health systems in this country
Speaker 1: have been gradually hollowed out for all kinds of reasons,
Speaker 1: with the money essentially going to the richest one tenth
Speaker 1: of one percent of the population, and now the rest
Speaker 1: of us are left holding the bag while they can
Speaker 1: hop in their private chats and fly off to their
Speaker 1: own little islands. Right, So there's an underlying build up
Speaker 1: it's worth paying attention to. Uh, that's that's involved here,
Speaker 1: So tune into what's beneath the anger you know, sends
Speaker 1: down to what's beneath it. And then for me, what's
Speaker 1: really important is to use anger, but don't let it
Speaker 1: use us. There's a traditional saying that getting angry at
Speaker 1: others is like throwing hot coals with bare hands. Both
Speaker 1: people get burned. And as someone who even though I
Speaker 1: fairly calm and cheerful, I have a temper, I can
Speaker 1: definitely go there and it's helpful for me to appreciate
Speaker 1: that anger, unlike the other major so called negative emotions,
Speaker 1: feels good in the moment, Unlike fear or sadness or shame,
Speaker 1: which we don't like to feel, but anger in the
Speaker 1: moment can feel good. So it's really important to appreciate
Speaker 1: that anger is an affliction on oneself. It's a burden
Speaker 1: on oneself. There's a proverb that says that anger is
Speaker 1: like a honeyed bar in other words, with its honeyed
Speaker 1: tip and poisoned barb. And so I try to keep
Speaker 1: that in mind. And then the last thing is to
Speaker 1: move into action. You know, what are the actions I
Speaker 1: can focus on. Anger is off in a reaction to helplessness.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people these days. I've clucked
Speaker 1: some time new myself to elapse around the track of
Speaker 1: helpless outrage. And that's not good. Once around the track, okay,
Speaker 1: ten times around the track, you're done, Because it's not
Speaker 1: good to marinate and helpless anger. It's bad for the body,
Speaker 1: it's bad for relationships, it's bad for the mind. And
Speaker 1: to move into the action we can't take. I can't
Speaker 1: make them get off the beach, but I can be
Speaker 1: very careful about the risks I add myself for the
Speaker 1: sake of others, not just for myself. Yeah, that's wonderful
Speaker 1: feedback and advice, I think, you know, allowing the emotion,
Speaker 1: recognizing its normal, going a little bit deeper, and taking
Speaker 1: whatever action we can. I think those are really really sound,
Speaker 1: the ideas, you know, because I think I love that
Speaker 1: idea of the loop of you know, righteous anger, of
Speaker 1: just getting you know, on that track again. I think
Speaker 1: that's where we get stuck so good, right in a
Speaker 1: weird way, you know, for a little bit. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not good for us, right right, It feels good for
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then most of us, if we
Speaker 1: have a certain degree of wisdom, which I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the people I'm hearing from, do, they realize, like,
Speaker 1: I'm stuck in this and it's corroding me. The other phrase,
Speaker 1: the old classic you know, resentments like drinking poison and
Speaker 1: expecting the other person to die, right, you know, it's
Speaker 1: I think part of this too, if I can just
Speaker 1: kind of say this least, is that it's confronting us
Speaker 1: with feelings of helplessness that maybe, in some ways we're
Speaker 1: always true. The fact of helplessness about so many things
Speaker 1: was always true, but it wasn't in our face. And
Speaker 1: now it's really true that literally the fate life and
Speaker 1: death of ourselves and by extension, people we love I
Speaker 1: have elderly relatives, I have friends who are in high
Speaker 1: risk categories in their seventies or eighties, young children. There
Speaker 1: are twelve year olds on ventilators right now as we
Speaker 1: talk about this. No one is immune, right, and so
Speaker 1: we care about these people. And the truth is, right now,
Speaker 1: there are limitations to what we can do about it,
Speaker 1: and it's hard for people to face their helplessness. And
Speaker 1: yet we have to be courageous enough and big enough
Speaker 1: to recognize that. And thinking about the theme that you
Speaker 1: work with so much, the one we feed. Part of
Speaker 1: what I think many people are realizing is that they
Speaker 1: have not taken enough of your advice over the years,
Speaker 1: in effect, and they haven't been feeding important wolves inside,
Speaker 1: wolves of serenity, wolves of perspective, wolves of prep spiritual practice,
Speaker 1: wolves of resilience. And it was okay on any given day.
Speaker 1: They kind of got through all these different things we
Speaker 1: used to do to get through hanging out with our friends,
Speaker 1: go to a bar, a restaurant. Well, guess what we
Speaker 1: can't do it The ground has fallen out beneath our feet,
Speaker 1: which revealed, frankly, of fundamental vulnerability that was true all along,
Speaker 1: and now we're left only with what we've already grown
Speaker 1: inside ourselves. And for many people that's like running on empty.
Speaker 1: And one of the great lessons here now is for
Speaker 1: this storm that is upon us, and we'll be with
Speaker 1: us for many many months to come by all expert predictions,
Speaker 1: if not a year or so, really, including its economic
Speaker 1: consequences for this storm as well as for the future storms.
Speaker 1: Now is the time every day to focus on the
Speaker 1: one you feed inside yourself, and to keep feeding those
Speaker 1: good wolves again and again every day. Yeah, I love that,
Speaker 1: you know what happened in the past, what we did
Speaker 1: feed Okay, great now today, you know, and I've really
Speaker 1: been thinking about you know that. I say this often
Speaker 1: that success in life is really about deciding what's important
Speaker 1: and what really matters, and then finding a way to
Speaker 1: put that into the world. And I think this is
Speaker 1: a really great opportunity to really go back to that
Speaker 1: first step and say, all right, what really matters, what's
Speaker 1: really important? And I also think you're right about the
Speaker 1: fact of helplessness. We're always in that state. Mark Mark
Speaker 1: Nepo calls it the terrible knowledge, right, the terrible knowledge
Speaker 1: that anything could happen, any terrible thing could happen at
Speaker 1: any time. That's always there, but now we're actually faced
Speaker 1: with it more concretely. But working with that knowledge and
Speaker 1: and all that, we can find some degree of peace
Speaker 1: and serenity in that there is a way to exist
Speaker 1: with that terrible knowledge, that that doesn't mean panic and
Speaker 1: freak out. And people find different things. I mean, for me, um,
Speaker 1: I've been focusing on thankfulness for all that I've had
Speaker 1: in this life so far, including on the worst day
Speaker 1: of my life, which was pretty bad, uh, still the
Speaker 1: gift of life that day. Um. If I had a
Speaker 1: choice between experiencing the worst day of my life or
Speaker 1: a blue van, I would still choose the worst day
Speaker 1: of my life. And I respect the fact that there
Speaker 1: may be a worst day of my life to come
Speaker 1: and I'll pick oblivion over it, and I respect people
Speaker 1: having that right to themselves. But I can say that
Speaker 1: at least for me, even amidst the madness of this time,
Speaker 1: is to appreciate all that I am thankful for. That
Speaker 1: helps me bear this time different different people, different things.
Speaker 1: Focusing on where you do have agency, where you're not helpless,
Speaker 1: is a real compensation, including neurologically, for the ways that
Speaker 1: we are helpless. So you know, can you choose to
Speaker 1: put catchup on your French fries? Can you choose to
Speaker 1: you know, have catch up at all right, or whatever
Speaker 1: silly dump thing you're making a choice for. And the
Speaker 1: last thing for me that's so important is to just
Speaker 1: be in touch with all the love that we've given.
Speaker 1: Think about all the people you've smiled at, you've encouraged.
Speaker 1: You know, you weren't a jerk with you actually were
Speaker 1: good with you were good too. And taking refuge and
Speaker 1: refuge is a traditional term. It's a beautiful, important term sanctuary.
Speaker 1: What are the well springs of our life that we
Speaker 1: can take refuge in, what what refuels us, what feeds
Speaker 1: us right and also what shelters us and what gives
Speaker 1: us comfort and reassurance. I mean being able to turn
Speaker 1: to those refugees in your life today and again and again,
Speaker 1: you know, feed refugees, feed the belth sense of refuge,
Speaker 1: so that you have it with you more and more
Speaker 1: wherever you go. Wonderful. Well, that is a beautiful place
Speaker 1: for us to wrap up. Thank you so much, Rick
Speaker 1: for taking the time to come on and share some
Speaker 1: thoughts as an honor arc You have a wonderful, wonderful show,
Speaker 1: and really it's great. Thank you, thank you. Next up
Speaker 1: is Hillary Jacobs Hendel. She's a psychotherapist who's switched from
Speaker 1: practicing traditional talk psychotherapy to accelerated experentia dynamic psychotherapy. Hillary
Speaker 1: is also the author of the book It's Not Always Depression,
Speaker 1: Working the Change Triangle to listen to the body, discover
Speaker 1: core emotions, and connect to your authentic self. Hi. Hillary,
Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to have you back on. Thanks Eric,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you called me to chime in with
Speaker 1: my thoughts. Yeah. So what we're doing in this episode
Speaker 1: is really talking about the anger that a lot of
Speaker 1: people are feeling. There's healthcare workers that are feeling it
Speaker 1: like they're not being protected, There's people who are seeing
Speaker 1: people not social distancing. So it's really this anger at
Speaker 1: how this whole situation is being handled. And so I'm
Speaker 1: just looking to get some thoughts from different people on
Speaker 1: working with that anger and a skillful way. Great, right,
Speaker 1: It's anger is such a difficult emotion for most people,
Speaker 1: and as a trauma psychotherapist and as an emotion educator,
Speaker 1: I always go back to this tool that I cannot
Speaker 1: imagine living my life without that I that I ended
Speaker 1: up writing about called the change triangle. And anger is
Speaker 1: a core emotion on this triangle, which which means that
Speaker 1: it's something that we're born with that serves a very
Speaker 1: important survival purpose. Um. So we don't want to like
Speaker 1: judge our anger number one, we don't want to shame
Speaker 1: ourselves for our anger. We want to really notice the
Speaker 1: anger when it comes up, and we're going to first
Speaker 1: notice it most likely if we really are in tune
Speaker 1: with ourselves as the way we notice all core emotions,
Speaker 1: as these physical sensations. Right, because something in the environment
Speaker 1: that is trying to hurt us. Right in these examples
Speaker 1: of people uh not having access to masks because other
Speaker 1: people made mistakes, people not social distancing, right, this hurts,
Speaker 1: This hurts us all it's dangerous. Right. So, anger will
Speaker 1: be triggered in the middle of the brain in the
Speaker 1: limbic system, and as all core emotions function the limbic system,
Speaker 1: the middle of the brain is going to trigger the
Speaker 1: body to have a host of reactions that ready us
Speaker 1: for a fight. And that's the impulse that people feel
Speaker 1: to lash out, to be mean, to be physically hurtful
Speaker 1: to other people. Right, that's natural. The thing what we
Speaker 1: want to do as civilized human beings is to take
Speaker 1: that angry energy and to really do two things. One
Speaker 1: is to to help it flow within us so that
Speaker 1: we don't block it. And when we block our core emotions,
Speaker 1: it makes us anxious. Right, We hold it down with
Speaker 1: muscular tension, all sorts of ways that we we control
Speaker 1: our emotions, particularly in our society where no one teaches
Speaker 1: us about emotions and how to accept them. What we
Speaker 1: want to do one is work with the anger so
Speaker 1: that we can release it in a constructive way or
Speaker 1: use it in a constructive way. What I would recommend
Speaker 1: in a nutshell really is there's a few things. One,
Speaker 1: when somebody notices that they're angry, to first and foremost
Speaker 1: validate it, meaning literally, you know, we all sort of
Speaker 1: feel that jolt, our bodies kind of go into some
Speaker 1: other state that we recognize as anger. If we're lucky,
Speaker 1: some people unconsciously block it from the get go. So
Speaker 1: all you noticed is anxiety. And I would recommend to
Speaker 1: people that feel highly anxious to to check around and
Speaker 1: ask yourself, under that anxiety, am I angry? And so
Speaker 1: once you validate, and you know yourself well enough, and
Speaker 1: you you practice working with emotions or you've done enough
Speaker 1: work on yourself where you can recognize, Okay, this fire
Speaker 1: in my belly and this energy that wants to come
Speaker 1: up is anger. I say to myself, I am angry,
Speaker 1: and I tune into the anger right, which is counterintuitive
Speaker 1: for most people. We lean away, we go up in
Speaker 1: our heads, we start ruminating, obsessing. We want to instead
Speaker 1: of that, really slow ourselves down, kind of take a
Speaker 1: few deep breaths, scan the body slowly from head to
Speaker 1: toe to really try to notice the ways that anger
Speaker 1: is showing up in the body. We want to validate it,
Speaker 1: and we want to listen to the impulse. Again, no
Speaker 1: action is being taken by now at this point, and say,
Speaker 1: you know, to figure out who am I angry at?
Speaker 1: What am I angry about? What is my impulse? If
Speaker 1: I have anything like I want to kick something, I
Speaker 1: want to kick this person, I want to you know,
Speaker 1: punch this politician in the face, or really kind of
Speaker 1: get to know the anger in a very open, accepting,
Speaker 1: non judgmental way. Once we sort of and again I'll
Speaker 1: use me and most people sort of feel angry. This
Speaker 1: way is there's a ton of energy that wants to
Speaker 1: come out. And so in this two step process where
Speaker 1: one we kind of want to release some of the energy,
Speaker 1: we can use fantasy in a very safe way. When
Speaker 1: I'm working with patients who have been traumatized, and we're
Speaker 1: going back to people who have been abused by their
Speaker 1: parents or relatives, right and and we always want to
Speaker 1: access the anger because anger is actually empowering and it's enlarging.
Speaker 1: And I use fantasy see to help people discharge anger
Speaker 1: in this way that I work, which is called a
Speaker 1: E d P for anybody interested in experiential and trauma
Speaker 1: methodologies of therapy. And so I'll ask someone to imagine
Speaker 1: what this anger wants to do to their abuser or
Speaker 1: to the person that hurt them, and through a very
Speaker 1: vivid fantasy, like I'll say, make it like a movie,
Speaker 1: like it's happening right now. They'll say, Okay, I want
Speaker 1: to punch. Let's say it's a father who was abusive.
Speaker 1: You know, my feel the anger towards my father, and
Speaker 1: I want to punch him in the face. And I'll say,
Speaker 1: stay with that feeling in your body, stay with the
Speaker 1: anger in your body, and just imagine punching your father
Speaker 1: in the face exactly as you want to do it
Speaker 1: so lifelike that you even feel the impact of your
Speaker 1: fist on his face. And then see what happens next,
Speaker 1: does he fall to the floor. So you invite people
Speaker 1: to have very vivid fantasies because it's a way to
Speaker 1: discharge this intense biological energy that's supposed to happen, right
Speaker 1: because in reality, it's getting ready for a real fight.
Speaker 1: You know, if a tiger attack you, you've got to
Speaker 1: punch the hell out of that tiger. Um. This is
Speaker 1: a safe way to discharge that energy and to help
Speaker 1: the nervous system, which is in a high state of
Speaker 1: arousal arousal, to calm down a bit. And I have
Speaker 1: many I have examples of this. I have a blog,
Speaker 1: I have tons of resources on my website. Maybe you'll
Speaker 1: let people know my website that they can get that.
Speaker 1: And and in the book, it's not always depression, lots
Speaker 1: of vivid examples and it really helps to see what
Speaker 1: it looks like so that you can be able to
Speaker 1: mimic this stuff on your own and work with your
Speaker 1: own feelings in this way, once you can get a
Speaker 1: little bit of relief and calm down, and I should
Speaker 1: say you can do this by screaming into a pillow.
Speaker 1: You can do this by running very fast. The idea
Speaker 1: is we want to get energy mobilized. But it's particularly
Speaker 1: effective if there's a particular person who has wronged us
Speaker 1: that we can make it a very vivid fantasy until
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people just have to murder people in
Speaker 1: fantasy and that's when they get the relief. So you
Speaker 1: really take your cue from the feeling in your body
Speaker 1: until it's all discharged. So I'll say, just keep doing
Speaker 1: what this anger needs to do, keep imagining it until
Speaker 1: it feels like it's done. And whatever that is, don't
Speaker 1: judge it, because whoever you're angry at is totally safe.
Speaker 1: Wherever they are, you're safe. I'm safe, they're safe. This
Speaker 1: is just working with emotions in this very skillful way.
Speaker 1: Once there's a little bit of discharging and you can
Speaker 1: think a little bit, then step two is really how
Speaker 1: can I take this anger And kind of the way
Speaker 1: I describe it or imagine in myself is put it
Speaker 1: in my backbone and then do something, take an action
Speaker 1: that is assertive or helpful. So I'm thinking, for example,
Speaker 1: and talk about racial injustice and right, it's sort of
Speaker 1: a diffuse rage. Who are you angry about? If you're
Speaker 1: a black man who has been wronged your whole life
Speaker 1: by people you know, but people who are prejudiced. Um,
Speaker 1: sometimes you can channel that into political action, into activism.
Speaker 1: So what are against constructive ways to take this anger
Speaker 1: to make things better, to right the wrongs that have
Speaker 1: been done to you or to other individuals. Volunteering, voting
Speaker 1: out the person in office if you don't like him, um,
Speaker 1: calling your congress people, writing letters. Just taking an action
Speaker 1: feels very good for people. So that's one way to
Speaker 1: do that. And I would say to really open your
Speaker 1: mind real wide. Just something that feels like you have
Speaker 1: taken that anger and channeled it into some sort of
Speaker 1: action that you can feel good about. And that is
Speaker 1: it's really it's relieving in some way just to do something,
Speaker 1: even if it's volunteering and being kind to someone, smiling
Speaker 1: at someone, just being part of a constructive uh, constructive
Speaker 1: action in some way. Right, anger often shows us what
Speaker 1: we care about. And if we can flip that right, Okay,
Speaker 1: this shows me I care about this thing, So what
Speaker 1: can I do now to show that care in some
Speaker 1: other way, it helps us see our values and then
Speaker 1: we can think about ways to act on those exactly.
Speaker 1: And so I really would think of it in that
Speaker 1: two pronged approach of one working with the with the
Speaker 1: emotion in the body where no action has taken place,
Speaker 1: and how can I help myself so I don't get anxious,
Speaker 1: if I hold in my anger, so I don't get depressed.
Speaker 1: A lot of depression is a lot of people kind
Speaker 1: of their anger imploading because they don't have any tools
Speaker 1: or skills to work with that. And so there's plenty
Speaker 1: of that again on my website and in the book
Speaker 1: It's Not Always Depression, which is a self help, easy
Speaker 1: to read, accessible book on how to work with emotions
Speaker 1: that I wrote that came out of my own moral
Speaker 1: outrage that we don't get any emotion education. Um. So
Speaker 1: it's not that I want to hawk my wares. I
Speaker 1: do want to help people, and I think this book
Speaker 1: does it. And that's why I also offer resources that
Speaker 1: are free, but you can also get these things at
Speaker 1: the library and it doesn't have to cost you anything.
Speaker 1: There's like a third problem, which is when one really
Speaker 1: feels powerless and there is nothing to be done right,
Speaker 1: you're stuck. You you've sort of validated your anger. You've
Speaker 1: given yourself compassion because this sucks to feel angry, right,
Speaker 1: We just want to be kind to ourselves when we're
Speaker 1: having any type of feeling, because feelings are painful, and
Speaker 1: when there's nothing that can be done. This kind of
Speaker 1: acceptance that there's so much in life we can't control,
Speaker 1: and that that doesn't mean we're bad, and that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that people are bad and that life is bad.
Speaker 1: And then I guess, you know, going to the sort
Speaker 1: of old cliches of that which doesn't kill us makes
Speaker 1: us stronger, kind of the platitudes that are sometimes true,
Speaker 1: that you have to relinquish control and that maybe something
Speaker 1: good comes out of something bad, and just positive self
Speaker 1: talk the best that you can. Lastly, because I've been
Speaker 1: talking about this ad nauseam and trying to help my
Speaker 1: own patients and UM and anyone else who wants help
Speaker 1: and support, is when you're feeling terrible, maybe from anger,
Speaker 1: maybe from anxiety, maybe from sadness and grief over you know,
Speaker 1: all the suffering going on again, to try to help
Speaker 1: yourself because in a bad state, we're not thinking clearly,
Speaker 1: Like the first goal is really to calm down, and
Speaker 1: so um. I also recommend that people kind of have
Speaker 1: a list that they create in a calmer moment of
Speaker 1: what I call state changers, like like a list of
Speaker 1: five things that you know radically changes your state from
Speaker 1: one of being very hyper um aroused, meaning your nervous
Speaker 1: system is very upset to come. And these are like
Speaker 1: little things like like grounding and breathing. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: life without it. And I can't imagine, you know, living
Speaker 1: through this pandemic without I'm grounding and breathing, you know,
Speaker 1: any time my anxiety spikes and anytime my outrage spikes.
Speaker 1: And again I have instructions for that on my website
Speaker 1: for anyone that wants it. Taking a hot bath, taking
Speaker 1: a hot shower, making yourself, t exercising, calling a friend,
Speaker 1: Like I would write down like a pre list that
Speaker 1: you put on your refrigerator, because when you're upset, it's
Speaker 1: very hard to think, and so at least you can
Speaker 1: march yourself over to the refrigerator and you know, say, okay,
Speaker 1: step one, I'm going to ground and breathe. That type
Speaker 1: of thing. That's great advice to always sort of think
Speaker 1: ahead because the moments that we need to be able
Speaker 1: to think of the example I always use as I
Speaker 1: know music helps me, but when I'm really upset, I
Speaker 1: can't think about what i want to hear. So I've
Speaker 1: got like a playlist that I just go, all right,
Speaker 1: just go press play on that playlist because I know
Speaker 1: it has what I need because I can't decide because
Speaker 1: I'm when I'm overwhelmed. So great advice. Yeah, that's exactly
Speaker 1: so right. That would be maybe what would that be?
Speaker 1: Number one on your state changing list or exercises? Definitely
Speaker 1: number one on mind moving my body somehow, that's the
Speaker 1: that's the biggest one for me. Uhyeah, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Hillary. I really appreciate you taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on and share some of your
Speaker 1: great ideas with us. It's my pleasure, Eric anytime. Next up,
Speaker 1: we have Ruth King and emotional wisdom author, coach, and consultant.
Speaker 1: Ruth is a guiding teacher at Inside Meditation Community of
Speaker 1: Washington and she's on the teacher's council at Spirit Rock
Speaker 1: Meditation Center. She's the author of the book Mindful of Race,
Speaker 1: Transforming Racism from the inside Out. Hi, Ruth, welcome back.
Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to have you on again. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm always happy to talk with you. I'm glad you're
Speaker 1: doing this. It's important. Yeah, So what I want to
Speaker 1: talk about, I explained to you before we started, is
Speaker 1: the anger that people are feeling at perhaps the government
Speaker 1: or the institutions they work at, a lot of healthcare
Speaker 1: workers feeling frustrated. A lot of people seeing people going
Speaker 1: out and being in public and not doing the distancing
Speaker 1: and feeling like that putting other people in danger. And
Speaker 1: that's that's causing an anger in people. And I just
Speaker 1: wanted to hear from you some thoughts on working with
Speaker 1: that anger skillfully. Yeah. Well, it's such an important question
Speaker 1: and people, First of all, just to validate that people
Speaker 1: have a lot of good reasons to be piste off
Speaker 1: right now. I mean it makes sense that, you know,
Speaker 1: when we see the pervasiveness of ignorance that's in our
Speaker 1: political system, for example, you know, just to kind of
Speaker 1: a blatant incompetence, and then, like you said, we see
Speaker 1: people that are kind of clueless about the impact of
Speaker 1: our interdependence and that we're really seeing a heightened way
Speaker 1: that we rely on each other and how people are
Speaker 1: treating that you know, rather casually are kind of from
Speaker 1: a place of self interest. So just to first validate
Speaker 1: that there's good reason to be upset, but I think
Speaker 1: what it puts us in the face of clearly squarely, uh, Intimately,
Speaker 1: we're put into the face of what we can't control.
Speaker 1: You know, we really can't control other people, yet we're
Speaker 1: dependent on them responding in ways because since why because
Speaker 1: we're impacted. So um, I think what we're left with
Speaker 1: and the face of that is um our own raw material.
Speaker 1: And so it's showing up in anger for some people
Speaker 1: that might be showing up in depression. One of the
Speaker 1: things I talk about are the six ways that we
Speaker 1: see the faces of anger and rage. So we see
Speaker 1: the defiance that comes out for those of us who
Speaker 1: who can be quickly on fire with it, or we
Speaker 1: see a certain sense of dominance which can be in
Speaker 1: our strong judgment about it. We might distract ourselves with
Speaker 1: our devices or a lot of other consumption and activity
Speaker 1: binging out here and there. You know, we might overly
Speaker 1: um impose ourselves on our views and everything on other's
Speaker 1: points of view. So we have these kind of strategies
Speaker 1: that we've been developing for some time that fly out
Speaker 1: of the box in the face of these situations that
Speaker 1: we don't have control over. So what we're left with
Speaker 1: and this raw material, is how do I make a
Speaker 1: U turn around this energy? Because what we're talking about
Speaker 1: his energy, we're talking about fire, We're talking about being
Speaker 1: on fire, and it's a sacred energy in my mind
Speaker 1: because what we do with the next is so crucial,
Speaker 1: you know. So if we vomited out on everybody, um,
Speaker 1: you know, that might feel good for some people for
Speaker 1: a hot minute. You know, we have to be concerned
Speaker 1: about our impact what we do with this energy. So
Speaker 1: bottom line, I think we have to be interested in
Speaker 1: working with the energetics, the raw material of this. We
Speaker 1: have to first set the intention to be interested in
Speaker 1: looking at it in a different way, perhaps changing how
Speaker 1: we hold it, to be informed by it instead of
Speaker 1: in reaction to it. So this requires us to settle
Speaker 1: down a bit, to call ourselves inward, to be interested
Speaker 1: in um, learning about what it's like to be on
Speaker 1: fire and the impact that you can have. Because our
Speaker 1: our actions create impact, we have to be so interested
Speaker 1: about that that we are using the energy in ways
Speaker 1: that really make a difference. I don't want people wasting
Speaker 1: the energy on just fuming out. I wanted to channel
Speaker 1: a certain response that's mobilizing in a way that's none
Speaker 1: harming to people. So this requires us to pause and
Speaker 1: be able to holler rate what's uncomfortable, what's heightened, and
Speaker 1: what's ours. It's our disturbance. So what we do with
Speaker 1: that energy, I think is so crucial. We need to
Speaker 1: have the intention to pause, the intention to do no harm,
Speaker 1: the intention to use the energy uh efficiently. And so
Speaker 1: the way to work with this anger is not when
Speaker 1: you're in the middle of a crisis, but in between
Speaker 1: the spaces of the crisis, so you can learn to
Speaker 1: settle the nervous system enough so that when you are
Speaker 1: on fire, you can put a little space enough space
Speaker 1: in there too to soften before you just go off
Speaker 1: into habitual reactivity. I love that idea of using the
Speaker 1: energy that's so important, because you're right, if we just
Speaker 1: spin out the moment it happens and go crazy and
Speaker 1: fuel everywhere, it doesn't do any good and that right right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: often it even makes the situation worse. We we distance
Speaker 1: people who might have been able to work with. So
Speaker 1: I love that idea of that energy being really useful,
Speaker 1: but that we have to sort of be centered within
Speaker 1: ourselves in order to know how to use it. That's right.
Speaker 1: And I also think that there are some ways we
Speaker 1: can if we can just turn our attention inward and
Speaker 1: settle a little bit. We can also have an image
Speaker 1: I find helpful of the rage and the anger that
Speaker 1: I'm feeling is trying to tell me something more than
Speaker 1: it's trying to tell somebody else something. So I think
Speaker 1: there's some wholesomeness and being curious about what does this
Speaker 1: intensity trying to teach me in this moment other than
Speaker 1: you know, you're probably right about what you're enraged about,
Speaker 1: but you know, what is this energy trying to teach me?
Speaker 1: You know? And can I be fiercely clear instead of
Speaker 1: fire in a blaze? Can I be fiercely clear and
Speaker 1: stable in the fire that I'm sitting in, stay centered
Speaker 1: in it so that I can be informed enough to
Speaker 1: respond wisely. And this requires us to really develop a
Speaker 1: relationship with the intensity of our experience because it belongs
Speaker 1: to us. And the other thing I think is important, Eric,
Speaker 1: is that g right there, I forgot the point I
Speaker 1: was going to make because it was just so fired
Speaker 1: at me. But yeah, so, um, I just think there's
Speaker 1: something for us to learn from it. So I think
Speaker 1: our anger, on one hand, tells us what we value.
Speaker 1: That's a good but that yeah, right, And so if
Speaker 1: we can pivot to what's important, Okay, this tells me
Speaker 1: what's important. But then also, I think this is the
Speaker 1: point I think you were driving at. Also, I think
Speaker 1: our anger probably tells something about value. But I think
Speaker 1: it also tells us something about our internal state how
Speaker 1: we react and can't quite find the right word for it,
Speaker 1: but our our internal reactivity. I think it tells us
Speaker 1: two things. Yeah. Well, I think it's true that we
Speaker 1: do have habits of working with this energy that gets
Speaker 1: amplified in situations like we're in there. But it's not
Speaker 1: like a new habit. It's an old habit that's inflamed,
Speaker 1: you know. And um, and again it makes sense. It
Speaker 1: makes sense for us we should be raised about the
Speaker 1: times we're in, especially in terms of how things are
Speaker 1: being managed. I know that's true from my experience. I
Speaker 1: think we forget that when we're in those moments of rage,
Speaker 1: our anger and upset and we see the good reasons
Speaker 1: for it. I think what we lose touch with is
Speaker 1: how we're impacted by the anger ourselves us. We lose
Speaker 1: touch with how the heart is collapxing, We lose touch
Speaker 1: with the tightness in the valley. We lose touch with
Speaker 1: how shut down we are in those moments. And I
Speaker 1: think it's important for us to comfort that distress that's
Speaker 1: literally happening inside the body. And one way we do
Speaker 1: that is to remind ourselves that we're sitting in a chair,
Speaker 1: sitting on a cushion, or standing up, and to connect
Speaker 1: with the breath, especially the exhale of the breath, and
Speaker 1: just allow ourselves to settle, because we are in a
Speaker 1: ball of tension and we exit the body when we
Speaker 1: are enraged or when we're angry about something, we leave
Speaker 1: the premises. And so this idea of returning is to
Speaker 1: really claim a sense of power and self control and
Speaker 1: inner stability that I think we need to that actually
Speaker 1: informs the wiser action that's needed. And it's so important
Speaker 1: to just not to do no harm. I mean, if
Speaker 1: we set the intention of not doing harm, then that
Speaker 1: really challenges us to and now we're going to respond
Speaker 1: and the face of the craziness that we're in, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the idea about these are habits of how
Speaker 1: we respond and that can be hard to see sometimes,
Speaker 1: but it can also be a starting point to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's these habitual habits. And I think this time for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, if we use it right, can
Speaker 1: be a chance to really reflect on ourselves and what
Speaker 1: we value and how we respond. And it's a time
Speaker 1: to start strengthening the practices that can help us respond better.
Speaker 1: That's right, I mean. And again, we have good reason
Speaker 1: to be upset, and no one's taken that away. We
Speaker 1: must continue to do what must be done. And in
Speaker 1: terms of our activism and writing the letters and contacting
Speaker 1: and gene out and things like that, and we have
Speaker 1: to stay in our seat with it. We have to
Speaker 1: stay connected with the body and breath, which is always
Speaker 1: in the present time. It's always a source of stability
Speaker 1: and comfort. If we tap in there, it's our inner resource. Um.
Speaker 1: We can cultivate a sense of friendship with our body
Speaker 1: and breath that supports us in times like this as
Speaker 1: we do what must be done. And it's a practice.
Speaker 1: It's you know, we can't work with anger and rage
Speaker 1: right in the heat of the moment. We have to
Speaker 1: be cultivating that like background elevator music. You know, it
Speaker 1: has to be a steady, intravenous intention, running around a
Speaker 1: stained stable, stain on the ground, seeing what's real, responding
Speaker 1: in ways that are not informing. Wonderful. Yes, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Ruth. That was really lovely and I'm always
Speaker 1: happy to hear your thoughts are so lucid. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I'm so happy with what you're doing. And
Speaker 1: you know, I also think we're all doing our best,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's a good time to both
Speaker 1: do the best we can but also keep our hand
Speaker 1: on our heart and know that every action, every thought,
Speaker 1: they're planting seeds and we want to be sensitive to
Speaker 1: what blooms next from our actions. So beautifully said, thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: get to talk to you. Eric, good to talk to you.
Speaker 1: And last up, we have David Rico, a psychotherapist, teacher,
Speaker 1: workshop leader, and writer. He's the author of the classic
Speaker 1: book How to Be an Adult, a handbook on psychological
Speaker 1: and spiritual integration. Hi, David, welcome back. Thank you, nice
Speaker 1: to be here, pleasure to have you. On. What I'm
Speaker 1: doing with this episode is I am just working to
Speaker 1: give people some tips on dealing with anger. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of anger coming up um from healthcare workers, from
Speaker 1: individuals about the way our government is handling this, or
Speaker 1: perhaps the way certain institutions are handling it, or the
Speaker 1: way some people are handling it, the way some people
Speaker 1: might not be practicing social distancing, and people feeling angry
Speaker 1: like they're putting everyone at risk. So I just want
Speaker 1: to give listeners some tips for dealing with that anger skillfully.
Speaker 1: I would begin by saying that anger is defined in
Speaker 1: the dictionary as displeasure and injustice. So when we feel
Speaker 1: that things are being done in an unfair way, we
Speaker 1: are unhappy about it, displeased, and that displeasure is anger.
Speaker 1: M well, that's healthy anger. But when it turns into aggression,
Speaker 1: when it goes out of control, and when it harms others,
Speaker 1: then it has become abuse. And that's the distinction that
Speaker 1: I think it's important to make. Now. When people come
Speaker 1: at us in an abusive way, we want to leave
Speaker 1: the premises get away because it can turn into violence aggression.
Speaker 1: And when someone is expressing actual anger, we are paying
Speaker 1: close attention and we're responding in a healthy way by
Speaker 1: acknowledging what the other person feels angry about and opening
Speaker 1: up a pathway of communication. If we ourselves feel that
Speaker 1: we have crossed the line and become abusive, that's when
Speaker 1: we need to pull ourselves back and acknowledge that we've
Speaker 1: gone too far and come back to our actual anger. Now,
Speaker 1: some of this anger that we're seeing nowadays is actually
Speaker 1: fear that makes us feel so vulnerable that we don't
Speaker 1: want to express it, and we turn it into anger,
Speaker 1: something like what happens in road rage. You are actually
Speaker 1: scared that somebody cut you off, but instead of feeling
Speaker 1: of fear, you immediately transpose it into anger, and you're
Speaker 1: actually avoiding the actual feeling. So the basic style is
Speaker 1: you feel somehow unsafe. That's fear that leads you to
Speaker 1: want to protect yourself, and the poor man's version of
Speaker 1: protecting yourself is to become hostile, to act out against others,
Speaker 1: and then you believe that that will make them pull
Speaker 1: back and withdraw and you will be safety in. From
Speaker 1: my point of view, that's not a healthy way to operate.
Speaker 1: So what's an alternative for us when we're feeling these things.
Speaker 1: The alternative is to admit that you feel the fear
Speaker 1: itself to allow yourself to feel it and then not
Speaker 1: act on it. In other words, not be pushed into
Speaker 1: anger and rage, and also not to pull back into
Speaker 1: denial of it. And it especially helps to be able
Speaker 1: to share the feeling of fear and powerlessness with others
Speaker 1: whom you trust. That helps relieve it. Right. I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting because a lot of times, like if we're
Speaker 1: feeling afraid, it's a personal experience and we can go
Speaker 1: talk to somebody else. And this is challenging, I think,
Speaker 1: because so many people feel afraid. Oh yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's quite normal. But with this crisis of the virus,
Speaker 1: we all feel afraid for ourselves and our loved ones,
Speaker 1: and we want to be able to hold the fear
Speaker 1: in a way that does not turn it into something
Speaker 1: that lashes against others. We could, we could protest if
Speaker 1: we don't like the way things are being handled, but
Speaker 1: we want to do that in the context of you know,
Speaker 1: joining with others in a in a protest or speaking
Speaker 1: of ourselves speak truth to power. It's not a good
Speaker 1: idea to have it turn into aggression or hate, and
Speaker 1: so we can void that by allowing ourselves to feel
Speaker 1: the emotion and share it with other people and not
Speaker 1: be pushed by it into actions that we ultimately would
Speaker 1: be ashamed of. Any other words you'd like to add
Speaker 1: on the topic, No, I think that kind of fits
Speaker 1: with your question. We're just all doing our best to
Speaker 1: feel our legitimate feelings, but not let them turn into uh,
Speaker 1: something that might hurt others, right, I think I think
Speaker 1: we're all wrestling with how do we feel these feelings,
Speaker 1: what's the right level? How do we keep them from
Speaker 1: becoming overwhelming? I think that's a that's just a common
Speaker 1: challenge right now. And to use your model, the dog
Speaker 1: is anger and the wolf this abuse, So we want
Speaker 1: to feed. It's okay to feed the dog of anger,
Speaker 1: and that activates us into appropriate protests or action, but
Speaker 1: we don't want to feed the wolf of abuse and violence. Wonderful. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, David. I genuinely appreciate you taking
Speaker 1: a few minutes to talk with our listeners and me. Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Eric, and good luck with your work. Thank you,
Speaker 1: take care you too.