Speaker 1: This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host,
Speaker 1: Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I
Speaker 1: am your host, Jen Kirkman, and today we are going
Speaker 1: to talk about sex, sex and anxiety. Well, actually my guest,
Speaker 1: Shan Boudrum is going to talk about sex. I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask the questions. Actually, these are questions that you
Speaker 1: asked me. And this is not necessarily from my listener emails.
Speaker 1: That's what I found so urgent about the questions in
Speaker 1: a way, because I did give out the email address
Speaker 1: to this podcast, Anxiety Bites Weekly at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Please send an email if you have any questions that
Speaker 1: you want solved, if you have any anxiety tips to
Speaker 1: give our listeners, send an email and I could read
Speaker 1: it on air. But before I even gave out that
Speaker 1: email address, I was getting d M s on my
Speaker 1: social media from people saying what what they wanted me
Speaker 1: to talk about on the podcast, topics that they hoped
Speaker 1: would be upcoming, And a few people were writing about
Speaker 1: their anxiety around sex. Somebody just wrote, I have anxiety
Speaker 1: around sex. Help. Usually I don't want to d m
Speaker 1: people like that back. You know, I just gathered the
Speaker 1: info and I'm paraphrasing your questions on behalf of all
Speaker 1: of you. But a lot of people obviously have have
Speaker 1: asked for episodes about relationships and anxiety, and we did
Speaker 1: cover those in February. But there were a lot of
Speaker 1: people that seemed to be really suffering in the area
Speaker 1: of sexuality, whether it is they're married, but ever since
Speaker 1: the pandemic, they don't feel like having sex anymore. Mean
Speaker 1: they're having anxiety around the conversation of how do I
Speaker 1: even talk ab out this? Does this mean we're going
Speaker 1: to end up getting a divorce? People who are anxious
Speaker 1: just about sex in general, People who are anxious about
Speaker 1: getting on dating apps because you know, maybe they watch
Speaker 1: too much true crime and they know they know what's
Speaker 1: out there or what could be lurking out there. You know,
Speaker 1: anxieties from the very real to the kind of imagined.
Speaker 1: And as Shan says, you know, anxiety is a part
Speaker 1: of life. So it's obviously going to be a part
Speaker 1: of sex, because sex is a part of life, and
Speaker 1: it's a part of life whether you're having it or not,
Speaker 1: and that that can cause anxiety. I mean, it's you're
Speaker 1: standing there with your clothes off, I assume in front
Speaker 1: of someone, even if it's someone you have been with forever,
Speaker 1: that can still cause anxiety. There's performance anxiety, There's what
Speaker 1: will they think of me? Anxiety. There's something called arousal
Speaker 1: confusion that that I get into with Shannon about is
Speaker 1: this excitement or anxiety? So I'm hoping that you get
Speaker 1: a lot to this episode. I know that you will.
Speaker 1: I just knew you know what this is. This is
Speaker 1: not my area of expertise. So let's have an expert
Speaker 1: answer some of your questions that I don't even know
Speaker 1: if you thought I would say on the show. I
Speaker 1: didn't say anyone's names. I tried to paraphrase these. These
Speaker 1: were down deep d m s that that got through
Speaker 1: that got to me. I mean they made their way
Speaker 1: to me. I don't mean they got to me like emotionally.
Speaker 1: And hopefully you're listening and this will help. So. Shann
Speaker 1: Boodrum is a sex and intimacy educator. She mashes up
Speaker 1: sex ology and psychology as a certified intimacy educator. Her podcast,
Speaker 1: Lovers and Friends tackles a lot of subjects about sex,
Speaker 1: and she's got a lot to say about anxiety in
Speaker 1: relation to sex. And Relationships on this week's episode. But
Speaker 1: she is kicking as she is every where UM as
Speaker 1: she calls herself. She's kind of like Dr Ruth meets Rihanna.
Speaker 1: She wants to teach people to be more competent and confident.
Speaker 1: And she's got a YouTube channel over seventy million YouTube views.
Speaker 1: She's been on so many shows, She's been written up
Speaker 1: in The New York Times, Forbes, Time Magazine. She's now
Speaker 1: a relationship and sex expert on Peacock's new dating show
Speaker 1: called X Rated, hosted by Andy Cohen. She's also an
Speaker 1: intimacy expert and workshop facilitator on Netflix's show Too Hot
Speaker 1: to Handle. So you can find out about Shannon, I
Speaker 1: will put the links to her best selling books, to
Speaker 1: her podcast, to her website. All of that is sitting
Speaker 1: right there, right now in the UH links in the
Speaker 1: show notes. And let's see what she has to say
Speaker 1: about people who are just anxious about sex. Let's listen
Speaker 1: to my conversation with Shan m H. Shan, you are
Speaker 1: a UM sexologist, you have studied psychology or certified intimacy educator.
Speaker 1: My getting this right? Would you please tell me in
Speaker 1: my audience exactly what that is I thought it would
Speaker 1: be more interesting coming from you than than me saying
Speaker 1: in the intro. Yes, Um. The easiest way I think
Speaker 1: about this is a sexologist is to sex what nutritionist
Speaker 1: is to food. So it's the study of how sex
Speaker 1: interacts with people. And you can choose a discipline of psychology,
Speaker 1: of biology of wellness, pharmaceutical, physiological, it could be. Fromn
Speaker 1: educational standpoint. As a sexologist and uh intimacy educator, I'm
Speaker 1: a public facing sex educator. So my goal is to
Speaker 1: take information from way more smarter people who work in researches,
Speaker 1: research centers, and labs, and then try to find ways
Speaker 1: to make that interesting and accessible to the general public.
Speaker 1: And what was someone who isn't front facing, like, what
Speaker 1: would they be doing as a career. Would that be
Speaker 1: the person that taught me sex said in high school? No,
Speaker 1: it should be, but it's more than likely your gym
Speaker 1: teacher or somebody who was just thrust into that role
Speaker 1: who has no idea you know, about language and about
Speaker 1: the various components of sexuality themselves, and didn't get good
Speaker 1: sex education growing up. And then also now just was
Speaker 1: given this textbook and told to read verbatim out of it.
Speaker 1: It should. I know, if you went to a grade school,
Speaker 1: that would be amazing. I don't know one person who
Speaker 1: had a sexologist teach their sex said class, but that
Speaker 1: should be a thing. But there are definitely sex educators
Speaker 1: who do write curriculum, mostly for more private schools or
Speaker 1: for chartered schools. So that is a pathway to take
Speaker 1: to be on the educational route. UM a SECT which
Speaker 1: is uh the number one certification board for sex sex
Speaker 1: sex alogist, sex educators in America. They you know, have
Speaker 1: a sex educator realm and those usually speak to people
Speaker 1: who are either working in education or are doing one
Speaker 1: to one work. Got it well, since none of us
Speaker 1: grew up with someone like you in our schools. This
Speaker 1: is probably why people are emailing my podcast because I'm
Speaker 1: just a comedian with anxiety. I mean, that's what my
Speaker 1: podcast is. I am certainly no experts, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I need I need you to help
Speaker 1: um and so somebody wrote me and it was just
Speaker 1: very generic. I mean, honestly, they didn't give me many details,
Speaker 1: but they wrote and said, I need you to do
Speaker 1: an episode about sex and anxiety. I have a lot
Speaker 1: of anxiety about having sex. I mean, I don't even
Speaker 1: know where to begin. But how do you begin with
Speaker 1: such a generic question like that, like where does your
Speaker 1: mind go first? Like what do you what are they asking? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think our minds should go to empathy because there
Speaker 1: are a billion different places that our mind goes, which
Speaker 1: lets us know that this is a place that is
Speaker 1: extremely anxiety inducing. And there are so many different facets
Speaker 1: and ways that this can be very stressful, uh and
Speaker 1: mentally painful for people. So the fact of the matter
Speaker 1: is that that we don't know where to start. That
Speaker 1: just lets us know that there are so many conversations
Speaker 1: that still have yet to be had publicly. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: what I'm guessing is they're probably simply asking, like I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do, as though there's a right
Speaker 1: and wrong to do, and it makes them anxious. And
Speaker 1: it's like unlike someone who's saying, oh, I don't like
Speaker 1: to fly in an airplane. I'm not gonna go do
Speaker 1: some you know, you're not gonna be with your you know,
Speaker 1: partner and go No, I need to do some deep
Speaker 1: breathing in the corner and just a ten minute meditation.
Speaker 1: I mean, so if someone is saying, like, look, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing, or I hope I won't
Speaker 1: be bad, my heart starts racing or whatnot. What can
Speaker 1: someone do physically in the moment if they're, you know,
Speaker 1: right in front of someone, they're abound to take their
Speaker 1: clothes off or however people want to do it. Is
Speaker 1: there is there some quick tip? Yeah, I think meet
Speaker 1: yourself where you are. So if your There's Life is
Speaker 1: not a rom com, nor is it a porn, so
Speaker 1: you don't have to follow sexual script that you've seen before,
Speaker 1: you don't have to follow a certain timeline. If you
Speaker 1: are on a time crunch, that could also be what's
Speaker 1: leading to some of the anxiety, and that could be favorable. Like,
Speaker 1: there's a difference, but in arousal, right, there is excitement
Speaker 1: and then there is anxiousness, and so if it's not excitement,
Speaker 1: it's anxiousness, and I'd probably be like, hey, these are
Speaker 1: not the conditions that are favorable for me. And then
Speaker 1: obviously high anxiety can interfere with sexual performance and sexual
Speaker 1: pleasure in general, so that's even more of a reason
Speaker 1: to be like, these are not my conditions, and that's
Speaker 1: okay because there's other activities. So I'm not like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling really stressed out and I don't want to
Speaker 1: have sex. Let me just quickly give myself one to
Speaker 1: three mantra or a Wussan ear massage, and then I'm
Speaker 1: going to force myself in it. Instead, I would just
Speaker 1: pause on that and then think about, like what action
Speaker 1: because sex is about pleasure, m and it's one of
Speaker 1: the unique places in life where you really don't have
Speaker 1: to do it. And there's health benefits for sure, and
Speaker 1: there is intimacy benefits for sure, but that's not you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like paying your bills or like making sure
Speaker 1: that your car is registered at the DMV, like it's
Speaker 1: it's not even eating right, Like it's something that you
Speaker 1: engage in hopefully to improve your health and your happiness.
Speaker 1: And if the way that you're engaging with it is
Speaker 1: not taking those boxes and don't gauge, it's okay, Like
Speaker 1: we don't need you to procriate. We're all good here
Speaker 1: on preeditor Earth. And furthermore, yeah, the other person that
Speaker 1: you're with probably doesn't want a partner who's not enthusiastic
Speaker 1: and relaxed, and they listen to say I can't get
Speaker 1: there within our time spent together. I might just need
Speaker 1: an extra half hour to pause that activity. UM have
Speaker 1: something called turn on triggers, where I talk about on
Speaker 1: my website. How similarly to love languages, we have to
Speaker 1: acknowledge that not everybody gets their sexual engine revving the
Speaker 1: exact same way. So it could just be that you
Speaker 1: are a sabio sexual, which is a fancy term for
Speaker 1: somebody who just likes to feel mentally connected to people
Speaker 1: before they feel sexual desire. So what you might require
Speaker 1: is a conversation where I'm like, I just feel like
Speaker 1: we just kind of got together and it's all like
Speaker 1: rush restaurants close off, and I just want to plug
Speaker 1: into you first as a human, I want you to
Speaker 1: plug into me. I want to feel like we're connected
Speaker 1: mentally before that even feels sensual to me to like
Speaker 1: think about sex. So your anxiety, if it's a medical condition,
Speaker 1: that's something different. You talk to your doctor about it,
Speaker 1: you know, if you've got chronic anxiety. But if it
Speaker 1: is situational, then I think it's a morning sign to
Speaker 1: do something different and not something different like a quick
Speaker 1: fixed band aid. And don't you think too. I mean,
Speaker 1: anytime someone's having anxiety, it makes us really self focused, um,
Speaker 1: you know, anywhere from like we have to focus on
Speaker 1: ourselves to calm down all the way to like we're paranoid,
Speaker 1: we're worried what the other person is thinking of us,
Speaker 1: and sex is really kind of the opposite, right, It's
Speaker 1: it's really about, you know, focusing on yourself in the
Speaker 1: sense that you're going to speak up for like what
Speaker 1: your needs are, but you really have to focus on
Speaker 1: another person. And you know, I I think if someone
Speaker 1: is anxious being with someone they've never been with esexually
Speaker 1: for the first time, um, it is very different than
Speaker 1: someone who's just for some reason having anxiety around sex
Speaker 1: when they're already in a relationship with someone. So I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I know it sounds easier said
Speaker 1: than done, but I feel like, if that person is
Speaker 1: going to be a viable sexual partner for you, it's
Speaker 1: not really about Oh, I'm so nervous. I hope I
Speaker 1: please them, because like you said, it's not a porn
Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to be Oh I have
Speaker 1: to do this like flip in this trick and this thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you don't feel like you can talk
Speaker 1: to that person for whatever reason, they might not be
Speaker 1: a good partner for you. You know, if they're getting
Speaker 1: a sense that they might be shamed or judged, then
Speaker 1: like that's never going to work, right, That's that's not
Speaker 1: you being anxious so much as it's you being aware
Speaker 1: of the fact that you're not being accepted. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think going back to what you said at to talk
Speaker 1: about that person right in that question in there's just
Speaker 1: so many iterations, and so you have to be open
Speaker 1: to all possibilities, especially if you're not having the discussion
Speaker 1: with yourself constantly. So if you're not in tune with
Speaker 1: yourself in this specific way to be able to decipher
Speaker 1: the difference between performance anxiety and pressure based anxiety, then yeah,
Speaker 1: you kind of have to weigh both, you know, options
Speaker 1: that are possible for you. But also I think it's
Speaker 1: important to acknowledge, you know, on a non chronic mental
Speaker 1: illness based way, the anxiety is a natural part of life.
Speaker 1: It's a healthy part of life. And yes, like sex
Speaker 1: is exciting, you know, it's the risk and reward center
Speaker 1: of the brain is activated. You've got your cortisol levels
Speaker 1: are going to go up, You're going to feel a
Speaker 1: rush of dopamine. You're gonna feel a rush of adrenaline,
Speaker 1: So naturally you're going to feel heightened anxiety and heightened
Speaker 1: self awareness. And that's not a bad thing, um And
Speaker 1: nor is it a bad you know, signed if I'm
Speaker 1: nervous about pleasing a partner, that isn't always indicative of
Speaker 1: the person being. You know, somebody who's toxic or somebody
Speaker 1: who's hard to please could just be like a natural
Speaker 1: byproduct of the fact that, like, I'm about to get
Speaker 1: naked in front of somebody and try and engage in
Speaker 1: activity which should result in like maximum pleasure for both
Speaker 1: of us. And by product of that that com and
Speaker 1: makes me a little bit nervous. So it may be
Speaker 1: one of those things where you kind of have to
Speaker 1: think about and you go through that checklist of am
Speaker 1: I unreasonably nervous? Um? Given the circumstances, Is it something
Speaker 1: about me that needs to change? Is something about the person?
Speaker 1: Is something about the environment that used to change? Do
Speaker 1: I just need to take a pause altogether and figured
Speaker 1: this thing out for myself? Um? And what is the
Speaker 1: cost to me if I tried to push through this?
Speaker 1: And if you can go through that kind of mental
Speaker 1: checklist really quickly, then hopefully figure you land on the
Speaker 1: on the side of what's best and healthiest for you.
Speaker 1: I was watching one of your videos on YouTube and
Speaker 1: you were talking specifically about how people can get over
Speaker 1: their fears and anxieties about doing um like video sex,
Speaker 1: like you know, like being intimate on video. This is
Speaker 1: more during the pandemic. And but your advice was great.
Speaker 1: I think applies to any situation which let awkwardness be
Speaker 1: part of it, right like it's it's okna laugh during
Speaker 1: it or before or whatever. I mean, we all feel awkward.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I would be so happy if someone within
Speaker 1: reason approached me saying that they fell awkward. It would
Speaker 1: open me up to be like, oh, could you know
Speaker 1: me too? I can I can at least share in
Speaker 1: this with even Usually I feel like that kind of
Speaker 1: destroys any awkwardness right away. It doesn't usually hang around
Speaker 1: after that. Yeah, I think humor is a great way
Speaker 1: to diffuse as well. If that's something that you're comfortable with.
Speaker 1: Obviously you are, but it is an incredible way to
Speaker 1: express anxiety in a way that can be really bonding
Speaker 1: for people. And again, yeah, life is not a poorn,
Speaker 1: It's not a wrong comm it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: script doesn't have to be perfect and polished. Nobody is
Speaker 1: filming this. Maybe they are, but like you know, there's
Speaker 1: like there's nothing that's going to make this like, oh
Speaker 1: from here until death do you part? This is going
Speaker 1: to be a representation of what you're like sexually. So
Speaker 1: I gotta get this right. I gotta nail this thing. Um,
Speaker 1: it's not a gymnastics score. So you can follow to
Speaker 1: the line, you can bend your knees, you can do
Speaker 1: something funky midway through like that can actually to me. Um,
Speaker 1: that's what makes sex good. I always like my husband
Speaker 1: started out as my f buddy, and I was like
Speaker 1: looking for a specifically like a strictly sexual partner at
Speaker 1: the time that he and I got together, because I
Speaker 1: was I'm from Canada, so it was like on the
Speaker 1: fritz of deportation. It's got a long term relationship. But
Speaker 1: I was studying sex for and I was learning these
Speaker 1: amazing things, but I had no one to practice on.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I really want to find a
Speaker 1: partner who I can just have sex with. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm going to be in the country
Speaker 1: or what's gonna come of me in the next few months,
Speaker 1: so I'm not looking for anything that requires any other
Speaker 1: form of commitment. And the reason why I ended up
Speaker 1: choosing my now husband as my sexual partners because he
Speaker 1: was just so unscripted and authentic and unafraid of making
Speaker 1: weird noises, unafraid of saying things or asking questions, and
Speaker 1: it just made me feel like, Wow, I'll never get
Speaker 1: bored of sex with this person because they're always responding
Speaker 1: authentically to what's happening and how they feel the moment,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be different every time. There's also
Speaker 1: something really pleasure love that that happens when you release
Speaker 1: yourself from these scripts, Like you knew what you wanted
Speaker 1: and you put it out there and it and it
Speaker 1: went a different way, which is great, But at the
Speaker 1: very least, I think people should know exactly what they
Speaker 1: want from a sexual experience. Maybe somebody I don't know,
Speaker 1: they want to feel I don't know, I don't thinking
Speaker 1: of a million different things. Maybe they want it quick
Speaker 1: and dirty. Maybe they wanted to feel like love even
Speaker 1: if it's not. Maybe they want an f Boddy and
Speaker 1: why I'm saying if I could say a fun buddy.
Speaker 1: Maybe they want a partner. But you know, it's sort
Speaker 1: of like getting clear with what you want so that
Speaker 1: you can organically and honestly see if what the person
Speaker 1: you're with matches up with that, and if not, like, okay,
Speaker 1: no big deal, everyone can walk away. But I think
Speaker 1: there is a lot of anxiety to like keep someone
Speaker 1: or keep them interested, and it's like it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: based again, like on performance or anything like that. It's
Speaker 1: it's do we both have what the other person needs
Speaker 1: in a sexual situation? And so rarely is it about
Speaker 1: like they're good in bed because of some you know,
Speaker 1: I think what what what works for you might not
Speaker 1: work for someone else. I think it's also important to
Speaker 1: note too that like knowing what you want is really
Speaker 1: not an easy feat at all. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever tried to pick a medical plan before, and
Speaker 1: they're so fucking confusing because you're like the deductible, the
Speaker 1: co pay, the signing, and the maximum amount. Like it's
Speaker 1: like and I'm paying this much and then I don't
Speaker 1: get a dentist. It's all very confusing because you're not
Speaker 1: accustomed to the language, not used to making those kinds
Speaker 1: of decisions, and so it's very stressful to figure out.
Speaker 1: It's something simple like what kind of health care needs
Speaker 1: do you have? But if you're not familiar with the system,
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with the language, you can be very stressful.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to discount the fact too, that
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, yeah, just like you know,
Speaker 1: be clear about what you want and voice what you need.
Speaker 1: But they've never been given the language described that before.
Speaker 1: They don't even know what the options are, so that
Speaker 1: in itself is easier said than done, which you know,
Speaker 1: is a great point that a lot of the anxiety
Speaker 1: we face around sexuality in general just as a result
Speaker 1: of the fundamental educational gap that we have here that
Speaker 1: from the time that we're young, you know, it starts.
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're told head, shoulders, knees, and toes,
Speaker 1: and we don't get a word to describe our genitals
Speaker 1: until we're like ten twelve years old. So right, and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking of our my dear listener who
Speaker 1: wrote like just a very generic like I'm anxious when
Speaker 1: I have sex. It's like again, like intuitively I'm feeling
Speaker 1: the bigger question is I kind of you know, maybe
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of I don't know what I
Speaker 1: want and who I am, and like there's just so
Speaker 1: much I don't know, and it's like go back to
Speaker 1: square one, you know. Like for me, if I was,
Speaker 1: you know, a therapist, I probably would be like, the
Speaker 1: last thing we need to talk about right now is
Speaker 1: like what you do the second before your pants are
Speaker 1: up and you're about to have sex as someone Like,
Speaker 1: let's take this back. You know, what are your needs?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're even allowed to have them?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. How's your self esteem? I think it's
Speaker 1: like we've probably disappointing to hear sometimes like oh my god,
Speaker 1: I gotta do all this work. But it's it's I
Speaker 1: don't It can be as hard as it sounds, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of the only way through, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: there's no quick like you said band aid for now,
Speaker 1: just do a quick deep breath and just jump on
Speaker 1: in there. You know, it's deeper. Um. And I think
Speaker 1: this stuff brings up a lot. I think that's a
Speaker 1: great point too, because we're kind of not even told that,
Speaker 1: right We're not told that, Hey, it's okay if you
Speaker 1: don't figure it out. After watching one Sex in the
Speaker 1: City season it's okay if you don't figure it out
Speaker 1: after reading a single book or having one partner you
Speaker 1: know who knew more than you. So we're kind of
Speaker 1: expecting to get to mastery without the general process that
Speaker 1: we know applies to literally everything else. Um and maybe
Speaker 1: comedy might be even a good example, because people are
Speaker 1: kind of in that space with that, like it's easy
Speaker 1: and supposed to just be able to jump into it
Speaker 1: and if I'm funny, I should be able to do
Speaker 1: this and I should just find a flow with it.
Speaker 1: It's often, as you know, somebody who's a career in this,
Speaker 1: it's literally the process is not dissimilar. Not to undermine doctors,
Speaker 1: but that's a similar to becoming you know, an expert
Speaker 1: in the metal cool field, like the time that you need,
Speaker 1: the scaffolding, the education, the tools, the amount of hours
Speaker 1: of practice you require before you're actually like efficient at
Speaker 1: it or successful at it. So I think that with sex,
Speaker 1: there's this idea that when you're born with it to
Speaker 1: you should be able to figure it out with like
Speaker 1: limited exposure and limited information or three. You can figure
Speaker 1: it out along the way from people who are just
Speaker 1: as ignoranted and experienced as you will be right back.
Speaker 1: Something that another person had written me that they were feeling.
Speaker 1: And there's been an article about this that I read.
Speaker 1: I don't remember where it was, but it was like
Speaker 1: people are feeling too schlubby post pandemic to have sex.
Speaker 1: So it's just kind of like a silly article about
Speaker 1: you know, people weren't feeling either. They were just disinterested
Speaker 1: because they've been get used to being alone sitting on
Speaker 1: the couch watching TV, or they gained weight, or their
Speaker 1: bodies were out of shape in a differ way or whatever.
Speaker 1: But somebody written to me that they were anxious about
Speaker 1: the fact that they were feeling not attracted to their
Speaker 1: partner um ever since the pandemic, and it was like
Speaker 1: they loved spending time with them during the pandemic, but
Speaker 1: they felt like they're not attracted to them, and they're
Speaker 1: anxious about bringing it up because they're afraid it's just
Speaker 1: going to snowball and end up being like, we need
Speaker 1: to get divorced. And so when I was researching you,
Speaker 1: I was looking at something you said where you talked
Speaker 1: about arousal confusion, and I know that's not exactly what
Speaker 1: this um listeners asking, but you had some great insights
Speaker 1: about just the anxiety of partners that have been together
Speaker 1: a long time and how sex can change. And I
Speaker 1: was just very interested in the arousal confusion. If you
Speaker 1: if you think that applies here or what would you
Speaker 1: say to this couple? And is the arousal confusion is
Speaker 1: a totally separate topic. No, I mean it can apply. Basically,
Speaker 1: it is like my mom's this this morning, that she's
Speaker 1: a nurse and so she's like on a medical sam
Speaker 1: you can't put as a symptom for an illness at nausea, diarrhea,
Speaker 1: and fatigue because that applies to everything. So when you
Speaker 1: experience those symptoms, you have to like there's so many
Speaker 1: different possibilities. So arousal confusion is somewhat similar to that
Speaker 1: in that you get um heightened anxiety or you know,
Speaker 1: heightened cortisol in your system, your adrenaline starts pumping your
Speaker 1: risk and rewards, and of your brain is activated. UM,
Speaker 1: you might feel like your fight or flight mostart to
Speaker 1: activate for a variety of different reasons. Sometimes that is
Speaker 1: because you're on a roller coaster. Sometimes that's because you
Speaker 1: are about to have sex and your horny. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: because you're extremely stressed out. So that is to say
Speaker 1: that when people get into these heightened states, arousal confusion is.
Speaker 1: Instead of you acknowledging I'm just highly stressed right now,
Speaker 1: you might be like, my body feels really energized. I
Speaker 1: should have sex, I'm really horny. Um. The arousal confusion
Speaker 1: actually came from an experiment that these reals searchers did
Speaker 1: where they had people go on a date. One couple
Speaker 1: one in a date on a bridge that was stable,
Speaker 1: and one couple one in a date on a bridge
Speaker 1: that was swinging. And in almost all cases, the couple
Speaker 1: who was on the unstable bridge rated themselves as being
Speaker 1: more attracted to the person they were on a date with,
Speaker 1: and they raided the date higher. And that's an example
Speaker 1: of a rousing concreason because they're doing something exciting that's
Speaker 1: geting their adrenaline going, and then as a result of that,
Speaker 1: they're like this butterflies in my stomach, this feeling like
Speaker 1: these tingling th things I have my fingers must be
Speaker 1: never really attracted to this person. So it can actually work,
Speaker 1: you know, I just tell your friend to um, go
Speaker 1: on a date with their partner on a roller coaster
Speaker 1: without buckling themselves in, they might find that their attraction
Speaker 1: was right back in there. Well, I think there's something too,
Speaker 1: like the anxiety of like how do I talk about it?
Speaker 1: And again it's like, okay, everyone gets married when you
Speaker 1: know they feel like their relationship is that it's peak
Speaker 1: in the sense of you know, you're my best friend,
Speaker 1: I can tell you anything, and then when it comes
Speaker 1: to sex, people shut down and they don't talk because
Speaker 1: I don't know why, and you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: even know how she would begin this conversation. I would
Speaker 1: just I mean, to me, the best advice I could
Speaker 1: say is just blurt it out and just say I'm
Speaker 1: worried that I'm not feeling attracted to you, but I
Speaker 1: hope it has nothing to do with us or you.
Speaker 1: I mean, Or is that too much? Is that am I?
Speaker 1: Is that not delicate enough? I mean, you could try
Speaker 1: to compliment sandwich right, So if you wanted to do
Speaker 1: it that way, I would probably do some troubleshooting on
Speaker 1: my own first. Because Esther Parrel was just a great
Speaker 1: voice in Spain, especially if you're a long term relationship.
Speaker 1: Is just someone that everybody should be looking into, and
Speaker 1: she's accessible and she's got a bunch of free um
Speaker 1: therapeutic medium routes that you can engage with, but she
Speaker 1: just talks about something very simple like um. You know,
Speaker 1: intimacy needs closeness and desire needs space. So if we
Speaker 1: think about desire like fire. You know, if you smother
Speaker 1: a fire, it goes out, it needs oxygen um and
Speaker 1: it also needs new materials so thrown on top of
Speaker 1: it to keep it going. So what happens in the
Speaker 1: intimate relationships is that we end up smothering each other
Speaker 1: and we don't add anything new into the mix, and
Speaker 1: we wonder why our fire is not burning. So there's
Speaker 1: some troubleshooting on your own to do there, and it's
Speaker 1: very likely during the pandemic. Where again, like our our
Speaker 1: risk and reward center of our brain, which is what's
Speaker 1: activating when you go to a casino, right, it's a
Speaker 1: part of yourself that doesn't know what the outcome is
Speaker 1: going to be, and that's very exciting for your brain.
Speaker 1: So a lot of what attracts us to people in
Speaker 1: the beginning is this element of the unknown, and that
Speaker 1: continues for some time. Right every time, even if I
Speaker 1: have an established relationship with somebody, when I call, are
Speaker 1: they going to pick up you know? Are they going
Speaker 1: to enjoy the sex with me? Are they going to
Speaker 1: find this new lingerie that I bought a rousing? So
Speaker 1: there's still some gamble of the unknown, But the more
Speaker 1: that you become close with somebody, the least that there
Speaker 1: is unknown. I know if I come onto you, you're
Speaker 1: gonna come on to me. I know you're gonna start
Speaker 1: off with a kiss on the neck and trail down
Speaker 1: to my nipples. Like I know everything. We kind of
Speaker 1: know the cadence. I know um that there's no risk
Speaker 1: with you, right, I know if I try, I'm going
Speaker 1: to succeed. So I also know what you're gonna eat
Speaker 1: for dinner, and I know what you're gonna wake up
Speaker 1: and put on in the morning. And so it's in
Speaker 1: that monotony and pictability that you don't have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to be excited by your partner anymore. So I kind
Speaker 1: of would reflect on, like, what was it, what environments
Speaker 1: were you in when you were first attracted to your partner,
Speaker 1: and do you guys put yourself in the position to
Speaker 1: do that. So if you first saw your partner at
Speaker 1: the club and they were dancing and they're they're confident
Speaker 1: in their flow. They had their friends around, and like
Speaker 1: there was something like really cool about them. He's your partner.
Speaker 1: Ever in an environment like that around you where you
Speaker 1: see that side of them thrive again. When I think
Speaker 1: about my husband and like what like turns me on?
Speaker 1: Like what about you know, what do I think about?
Speaker 1: When I think about him being attractive? It's him looking
Speaker 1: over his shoulder and like what is that indicative of?
Speaker 1: Like he's doing something else, he's on the move and
Speaker 1: he like looks back to like okay, cool, you're you're here, Like,
Speaker 1: oh you're coming, Like all right, I'm moving forward. Anyways,
Speaker 1: there's something that's independent about that, And so I try
Speaker 1: to find environments or ways where there's separateness where I
Speaker 1: feel like he's this independent guy who once in a
Speaker 1: while looks back, but are you coming or not? And
Speaker 1: like that's what's sexually, That's that's that's sexy to me.
Speaker 1: And if I start to feel like we're in a rut,
Speaker 1: I need I need to find those over the shoulder
Speaker 1: moments you had said something um about and something I
Speaker 1: was watching about, you know, with couples where maybe one
Speaker 1: person has anxiety and it doesn't have to be about
Speaker 1: like the relationship or anything. But it's you said, it's
Speaker 1: not um that one person as anxiety one doesn't. But
Speaker 1: it's like the compatibility of how you um the coping mechanisms,
Speaker 1: like like so it's not like you guys have to
Speaker 1: have the same anxiety or but but like, are your
Speaker 1: coping mechanisms compatible? Can you? Can you talk more about that,
Speaker 1: because I feel like that is this super specific little
Speaker 1: nugget that I've never heard anyone really talk about that.
Speaker 1: It's like you almost kind of go hunting for people
Speaker 1: with the same day mentioned but it doesn't really matter,
Speaker 1: right as long as the coping mechanisms are compatible. Well, well,
Speaker 1: that's actually a psychological principle that comes with just the
Speaker 1: different ways that people manage stress. And so as we
Speaker 1: got into the pandemic, it was fascinating because we had
Speaker 1: the same stress almost across the board, right like we
Speaker 1: everything was shut down, there was unknowns, there was fear
Speaker 1: about our health and fear about our futures. So we
Speaker 1: were all kind of going through a very similar stress,
Speaker 1: but that was manifesting in people in really really different ways.
Speaker 1: And so that's where I thought this theory was so
Speaker 1: helpful in explaining the different ways. You know, there's forms
Speaker 1: like the distractor, which are people who look for you know,
Speaker 1: whether it be a vice um or a hobby, you know,
Speaker 1: when they get really stressed out, they want to do
Speaker 1: something to get their mind off of it. But there
Speaker 1: are actually people who are wallowers right when they get
Speaker 1: stressed out. They want to research, they want to do
Speaker 1: and we saw them the pandemic people who like knew
Speaker 1: every possible thing about coronavirus and all the different you know,
Speaker 1: theories on it and conspiracy theories. Like the more that
Speaker 1: they knew, the more that they felt that that was
Speaker 1: very relaxing for them. But for the person who's a distractor,
Speaker 1: that actually is the opposite. That heightens their anxiety because
Speaker 1: they're looking for an escape from it. So I thought
Speaker 1: that that was a really important thing to look at,
Speaker 1: just to be mindful that, you know, because we can
Speaker 1: re feel like they're actually part of their problem, but
Speaker 1: instead they're just going about their solution in a way
Speaker 1: that's not compatible with us. We'll continue the interview on
Speaker 1: the flip side of a quick message from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: A lot of people that write me their partner has
Speaker 1: anxiety they don't. The main thing they want to know
Speaker 1: is not really it's like more about like what do
Speaker 1: I say so they listen to me so they handle it.
Speaker 1: It's never like how can I listen? You know? And
Speaker 1: I would assume that would be a huge part of
Speaker 1: the solution is learning about your partner's anxiety, coping mechanisms stuff.
Speaker 1: I think what's important about that too is acknowledging that
Speaker 1: there's not a better, more superior way. I would say
Speaker 1: probably like distraction, especially with vices, and there was a
Speaker 1: rise in people's alcohol consumption over the pandemic, So those
Speaker 1: are never the ones that you want to say like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you should do this one. So there's definitely and there's
Speaker 1: people who lash out. There's dumpers, right, people who carry
Speaker 1: all the stress or they collect all the stress all
Speaker 1: day long and then they get to the person that
Speaker 1: they're most close with and then they dump all their
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety on that person. And that's not a
Speaker 1: healthy way either. We have to also acknowledge people aren't
Speaker 1: really taught about successful ways of managing stress. I always
Speaker 1: say this that like anger management is this class reserved
Speaker 1: for people who hit children with cars? Where it's like no,
Speaker 1: when you're in kindergarten and you want to stab a
Speaker 1: kick too, took a crayon for the first time. You
Speaker 1: should be pulled aside and started having these conversations around
Speaker 1: like angers and natural feeling and when you have about feeling,
Speaker 1: what are some healthy alternatives and what are your triggers?
Speaker 1: And like everybody should have the benefit of these emotional
Speaker 1: regulation classes, but we don't have them. So that to
Speaker 1: be said is that you could very well be with
Speaker 1: somebody who's coping mechanisms are not good, right, Like they're
Speaker 1: not actually favorable. They just don't know another way, and
Speaker 1: they figured out something that works, you know, to soothe them.
Speaker 1: But there are healthier ways. So when you're in these
Speaker 1: partnerships incompatibilities to an opportunity for the two of you
Speaker 1: maybe to be partners and growth and to expose that
Speaker 1: person to a different way that could be more helpful
Speaker 1: for them and also put them in a better position
Speaker 1: overall and maybe even help alleviate stress in ways that
Speaker 1: they didn't think was possible. I like the word exposed.
Speaker 1: It's like it's less like tell them that they need
Speaker 1: to do this, but just expose them let them know, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know there's this that you could look into. It's
Speaker 1: I I know it's hard because people aren't always willing
Speaker 1: to want to change. But lastly, so for our single
Speaker 1: friends out there, I that's so and as me that
Speaker 1: dating apps give them anxiety. It's not about like what
Speaker 1: to say or what picture to use. It's more like
Speaker 1: they don't trust people because the Internet to them is
Speaker 1: not a safe place, so they feel like they're signing up.
Speaker 1: I think this is probably true for a lot of
Speaker 1: straight women, maybe even the same for gay men, if
Speaker 1: they're worried about someone cat fishing them, you know, in
Speaker 1: order to do violence. I don't know, but this woman
Speaker 1: was particularly like, I am afraid that I'm just basically
Speaker 1: asking a murderer to come into my library. It was
Speaker 1: it was almost like a phobia. It wasn't like cute
Speaker 1: little you know, dating anxiety. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I mean to me, it's that's a
Speaker 1: kind of anxiety that's like getting in a car. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a risk I think that, um, you know, making
Speaker 1: accommodations to your life or avoiding activities for your anxiety
Speaker 1: is healthy in some cases, right, guy, I don't go
Speaker 1: camping because I'm afraid of bears. Our bear is gonna
Speaker 1: come to my campsite. Probably not. But the fact that
Speaker 1: I don't camp is really not that much to my
Speaker 1: detriment to my overwell, overall happiness and wellness. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: sure in a camper was like, you have no ideas
Speaker 1: for missing out on and you know what, I don't,
Speaker 1: And I'm completely fine with that. So I know, I
Speaker 1: don't even want to go glamping, like none of it
Speaker 1: A hills. Yeah, I'm just I'm not attracted to I
Speaker 1: don't even I barely like traveling because I find traveling
Speaker 1: very harassing. So we're allowed to make accommodations for our discomfort.
Speaker 1: We don't have to push ourselves in every area. But
Speaker 1: if again, it's like preventing you from really significant additions
Speaker 1: to your life that would drastically improve the quality of
Speaker 1: your life. That's when I would look at it differently.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who is anti online dating as well,
Speaker 1: but she's has the most robust social life, so I'm like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be on dating apps. You know,
Speaker 1: you go out frequently. She is a part of a gym,
Speaker 1: she's a part of multiple clubs and memberships, she is
Speaker 1: active politically, So yeah, for that kind of person, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be like, you should really challenge yourself.
Speaker 1: It's the way of the future. Because you don't you
Speaker 1: have a wit, it's obviously effective for you. Kind Of
Speaker 1: similarly to somebody who's afraid of driving on the highway.
Speaker 1: You don't have to lecture that person. If they've never
Speaker 1: complained to you that they can't get places fast enough.
Speaker 1: You know they have routes that are comfortable for that.
Speaker 1: It works and it's part of their way of life
Speaker 1: and it's fine. So the benefit of dating apps is
Speaker 1: it takes away the big stress I think when it
Speaker 1: comes to dating, which is I see someone that I'm
Speaker 1: attracted to and I'm completely unaware if they are available
Speaker 1: or interested um and furthermore interested in me. So not
Speaker 1: on a dating app. It like reduces to me six
Speaker 1: of the stress that comes with searching for a mate,
Speaker 1: because if you're on a dating app, that means that
Speaker 1: you're searching, and if we matched, that means that you
Speaker 1: find me somewhat attractive and that we've got some opportunity
Speaker 1: here to see if there's something between us. So that
Speaker 1: in itself is like built into like your first thirty
Speaker 1: seconds of interaction with somebody. And that's what makes dating
Speaker 1: apps positive. Um. Yeah, the negative side is that it
Speaker 1: is accessible, right, and so with the accessibility, there are
Speaker 1: people who you would never talk to in real life
Speaker 1: who have an opportunity to see and get in touch
Speaker 1: with you. There are people who are not who they
Speaker 1: say they are, which again, in real life you would
Speaker 1: be able to pick that up in a second, but
Speaker 1: on a data app it could take a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: But there's also these like I I work with Bumble
Speaker 1: as their sex and relationship advisor, and it's incredible the
Speaker 1: additions they're making. They actually have something now like to
Speaker 1: make sure people are not cat fishing, where they have
Speaker 1: like they have randomized poses that you have to do.
Speaker 1: So it'll request like, hey, you have to take a
Speaker 1: picture right now of yourself by a tree with a
Speaker 1: peace sign, and if you can't produce that, then your
Speaker 1: account doesn't become verified that this is actually you. And
Speaker 1: then now the video app and the video chats have
Speaker 1: become really popular and as a results of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: they're actually really common, so you don't have to wonder, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe they have a picture of us, not actually them
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to go on these virtual dates first
Speaker 1: to actually vet people. So the apps are actually getting
Speaker 1: a little bit more hip to weeding out people like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are still anomalies and there are still
Speaker 1: dangers that happen, and you still you have to put
Speaker 1: protections in place. That's with real life too, though. I
Speaker 1: just think that the technology is doing a better job
Speaker 1: of bridging that gap. I mean, again, no one's going
Speaker 1: to solve her irrational fear of murderers. It's a good
Speaker 1: fear to have, you know. I think there's things to
Speaker 1: look for once you're on the date. If they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, I really have this cabin in the woods,
Speaker 1: you need to go, and I have an AX, don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. You know, I dug a big hole,
Speaker 1: like you know, look for those signs. But um, you know, otherwise,
Speaker 1: I think it's anytime someone asked me something that's really
Speaker 1: big ticket item like that, like I'm afraid of murderers,
Speaker 1: and like, well that you know, no one's going to
Speaker 1: argue you out of that, Like, okay, you're right, you
Speaker 1: know what do you want permission to not date? It
Speaker 1: sounds like that's what you're asking well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You've been so helpful. I was not equipped to wait,
Speaker 1: and I found my list. Can of just read you
Speaker 1: found you found my list of different ways that people
Speaker 1: can cope with stress. Um, so I love especially helps
Speaker 1: people have the same stressors. Okay, great, Okay. So there's
Speaker 1: a distractor. Then there's the dump truck, which we talked about,
Speaker 1: somebody who dumps her stress onto one person. Uh. Then
Speaker 1: there's a denier, so people who essentially reduce anxiety by
Speaker 1: denying reality or the facts around them or even exist
Speaker 1: or relevant. Then you have the intellectualizer, which I think
Speaker 1: is you. Um. Then's these there's the empathizer. So in
Speaker 1: times of stress, they just focus on the needs of
Speaker 1: others and sometimes the detriment of themselves. They ignore themselves.
Speaker 1: They needs might even be like frontline workers and people
Speaker 1: who are just like I'm here to help other people
Speaker 1: and they're willing to put themselves in danger. Not to
Speaker 1: say that, you know, all nurses are empathizers, but nonetheless,
Speaker 1: like that type of behavior that you have mirrors somebody
Speaker 1: who doesn't really know how to feel. So they just
Speaker 1: absorb the coping mechanism of whoever is around them and
Speaker 1: this person is definitely kind of out about like how
Speaker 1: do I cope with stress? And this can be dangerous
Speaker 1: depending on who you end up being around. Then you
Speaker 1: have the projector um they so they help reduce anxiety
Speaker 1: by attributing their unacceptable behavior to somebody else um. And
Speaker 1: then you have the compensator, so they try to compensate
Speaker 1: for the real or imagined flaws in one area by
Speaker 1: selling in another area. These might be the people who
Speaker 1: picked up guitar um and slinky making during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So I have a question about the denier. Is it
Speaker 1: someone that just kind of denies reality in general or
Speaker 1: do they deny their friends and partners feelings? Does that
Speaker 1: make sense? So I read what's here? So psychological denier
Speaker 1: denial is a common coping mechanism. In essential, denials an
Speaker 1: attempt to reduce anxiety and worry by refusing to accept
Speaker 1: reality or do anything about it. Many overly optimistic and
Speaker 1: overly positive people are using denial as their dominant coping strategy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes denial comes in the form of convincing yourself that
Speaker 1: you can't changing the outcome, so why bother got it? Okay?
Speaker 1: So it's not like it's someone's like gasolining you. It's
Speaker 1: more about themselves and like denying the reality. Like they
Speaker 1: have no money in the bank, but they're not going
Speaker 1: to do anything about it. They're not going to look
Speaker 1: at their bank account. They're just gonna whatever, the house
Speaker 1: is falling apart, they're just gonna be like, whatever, I
Speaker 1: can't fix it. I don't have a roof or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense. Oh, I love your list. Oh
Speaker 1: that's really helpful. It's it's a lot. It's hard to
Speaker 1: meet people and make things work. We are all so different,
Speaker 1: and like, for the longest times I I have done
Speaker 1: this myself, I've talked to other people. Like I said before,
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I could just meet someone with the
Speaker 1: same baggage, I don't think that anymore. But I used
Speaker 1: to have all of these different coping mechanisms that I thought, like,
Speaker 1: this would be perfect, and it's I'm never right. I'm
Speaker 1: just never right. Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's such
Speaker 1: a there's a billion different things that go into play.
Speaker 1: It's hard to make the best friend. It's hard to
Speaker 1: meet a gym buddy, right, It's hard to meet a
Speaker 1: cuddle buddy. So when you try to combine all these
Speaker 1: various roles into one are saying like, yeah, it's it's tricky,
Speaker 1: but that's the magic of it. When you figure it out,
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, this is what it's all about. Do
Speaker 1: you have any advice for well? And then this, do
Speaker 1: you have any advice for Like, let's say you're dating
Speaker 1: someone and it's going well and they're great, but you're
Speaker 1: you're just I don't know, you get anxiety by being
Speaker 1: in the relationship. Do you have a like what what
Speaker 1: would be a healthy anxiety and what would be like, Oh, no,
Speaker 1: that's not anxiety. You're you're sensing red flags in your
Speaker 1: that's that's that's bad anxiety, like get out, get out.
Speaker 1: Is there is there any kind of like quick measure
Speaker 1: for people to take a temperature of like how do
Speaker 1: you know when the anxiety you have in a relationship
Speaker 1: is healthy or when it's like, actually, that's kind of
Speaker 1: a sign. I would change the factors and see if
Speaker 1: the feelings change. So change environments. So maybe we always
Speaker 1: meet at their home and they always come to my
Speaker 1: home and I'm stressed if they think my house smells
Speaker 1: um or we always go to a restaurant and worried
Speaker 1: about the bill, So you may not. You may be
Speaker 1: again like misplacing where the anxiety is coming from. Um,
Speaker 1: and maybe that you're not giving yourself an opportunity to
Speaker 1: be the best version of yourself because you're so obsessed
Speaker 1: with trying to be who they want them to be.
Speaker 1: So start hanging out with friends you know and see
Speaker 1: if having your usual comfort group around changes things. So
Speaker 1: keep making adjustments UM to the factors surrounding that person,
Speaker 1: and if you find the feeling isn't changing, and no
Speaker 1: matter what the circumstances are, I probably would look at
Speaker 1: the person rather than something individually that you have to fix. Genius.
Speaker 1: I love it well, thank you so much. I was
Speaker 1: non equipped to answer any of my listeners and conscience
Speaker 1: I would have been telling everyone to get a divorce,
Speaker 1: don't go on dating app So you've probably saved a
Speaker 1: lot of people, um, some loneliness and some save them
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. Thanks for listening to this episode.
Speaker 1: I hope that it was fun and hopeful for you,
Speaker 1: and I hope you remember that awkwardness will always be
Speaker 1: there no matter what you're doing, and a sense of
Speaker 1: humor could never hurt. That's just my My two cents.
Speaker 1: I'm always throwing that in. There are just a sense
Speaker 1: of humor, sense of levity around anxiety, especially anxiety with sex.
Speaker 1: Sense of humor, Guy's sense of humor. We're all just humans,
Speaker 1: and maybe some of us aren't humans. I don't know
Speaker 1: who's listening to this podcast, but let's get into the
Speaker 1: takeaways for this episode. So in arousal, there is excitement,
Speaker 1: but there is anxiousness, and sometimes it's hard to tell
Speaker 1: the difference. Shan has named turn on triggers, which are
Speaker 1: similar to love languages. Not everyone gets their sexual engine
Speaker 1: revved in the same way, so you have to learn
Speaker 1: what your turn on triggers are, and you will only
Speaker 1: learn by tuning into yourself and experimenting. A sabio sexual
Speaker 1: is someone who likes to feel mentally connected to people
Speaker 1: before they feel sexual desire. It's really important to be
Speaker 1: in tune with yourself that you can know if you're
Speaker 1: experiencing sexual performance anxiety, or some kind of cultural outside
Speaker 1: pressure based anxiety. Arousal confusion is the experience of the
Speaker 1: risk reward system in the brain being activated. Adrenaline and
Speaker 1: cortisol are heightened, and it could be because you're about
Speaker 1: to have sex, or could be because you're on a
Speaker 1: roller coaster about to have sex. It could be because
Speaker 1: you're extremely stressed out in your life as well, Andrew
Speaker 1: about te sex. Couples can experience the same kind of
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety, like as we saw during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: couples were going through the same thing at the same time,
Speaker 1: but it's the different ways that they cope with their
Speaker 1: anxiety that can be where the disconnect is. It's not
Speaker 1: that they don't understand the other person's anxieties. The different
Speaker 1: styles of coping. The different types of person you can
Speaker 1: be as as a coper are the dump truck, the distractor,
Speaker 1: the denier, the intellectualizer, the empathizer, the mirror, the projector
Speaker 1: the compensator. None are good or bad. You just have
Speaker 1: to know what you and your partner are so that
Speaker 1: you can understand why you are either unable to help
Speaker 1: each other with with your anxieties or why you're not
Speaker 1: seemingly understanding each other despite going through something similar. And
Speaker 1: if you think the person you're dating is causing you
Speaker 1: the anxiety, because maybe are there red flags? Is something
Speaker 1: not right? Change up the factors and the environments that
Speaker 1: you normally get together in and start to see if
Speaker 1: your feelings change. And don't forget that anxiety is a
Speaker 1: natural part of life and so therefore it is going
Speaker 1: to be a natural part of sex. It's an activity
Speaker 1: where the risk and reward center of the brain is activated.
Speaker 1: There will be some, hopefully excitement. Thanks again for listening.
Speaker 1: If you want to send an email again, that address
Speaker 1: is Anxiety Bites Weekly at gmail dot com. I won't
Speaker 1: say your name on air if you don't want me to,
Speaker 1: just please indicate that in the email. As always, I
Speaker 1: would never read your email address out loud. I would
Speaker 1: never say your last name, or your location or anything
Speaker 1: like that. We do have a few more listener email
Speaker 1: episodes coming up this season. Please please give the show
Speaker 1: five stars. You can write reviews on Spotify or Apple podcasts,
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Speaker 1: Anxiety Bites podcast. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter.
Speaker 1: Both are at Jen Kirkman. And please tell a friend
Speaker 1: about the show. I think those are all of my
Speaker 1: commands for you. Just remember Anxiety Bites, but you're in control.
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