WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Joseph Newton Chandler III 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:05.160 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by code breaking termites. Instead, 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:09.640 it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:13.760 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:29.760 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:35.120 of things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, guys, 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.960 welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:48.400 Am Devin, Joined as usual by Steve Yep. We we've 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.879 been practicing for weeks. That's goods. Actually, yeah, probably actually, 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.600 Today we're going to talk about a mystery that was 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:01.600 suggested in um May of last year by Katrina or 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.720 Katerina I'm not sure how I think it's Katrina to 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.319 via email, so thanks. We've had a couple other suggestions 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.720 of this since then, but that was the big one. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.480 It was the first one, big one, first one. Whatever. Anyways, 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.200 today we're going to talk about Joseph Newton Chandler the 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:23.600 Third ready that real name. Sorry, let's do the overview 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:30.600 first on about July two, maybe July not quite true, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.280 which Joseph Newton Chandler the Third shot himself in the 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.160 head with a thirty eight caliber Charter Arms handgun. It's 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.640 like a little revolver. This then five shooter. Yeah. About 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.960 a week later police arrived to investigate the death because 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.000 the other tenants in the apartment complex that it smelled, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.800 and the landlord's just called the cops. It was the 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.560 hottest days of the year that year. One of those 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.320 jobs you just don't want. Yeah, pretty much. I knew 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.040 somebody here had had a daughter who was obnoxious and 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.440 anti social. She got a job doing with one of 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.200 those cleanup crews you know. Paid. Well, yeah, I'm sure 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.480 it does. Requires a strong stomach, that's really all it requires. Yeah, 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.960 I didn't require a huge skill set, but they paid 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.080 you a lot. Yeah. So the police arrive and it's 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.079 they deem it to be a totally normal suicide. They 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.200 ran his dental records to confirm that it was in 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:31.079 fact Joseph Newton Chandler. The third donal records matched. This 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:37.840 was in Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty much done. Yeah, well okay, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.240 so maybe not. They did cremate the body. Shortly after that. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.200 They did an autopsy and then cremated the body, which 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.560 is which is well, it's normal, normal procedure and this yeah, 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.960 there was there was nothing initially to indicate anything others. 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:54.440 So the person who was named as his will executor 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.280 hired a probate lawyer and they start to go through 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:04.520 Chandler's estate and and find out that actually this is 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.359 the second time that Joseph Chandler the Third had died. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.679 The first was in a car accident in when he 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.720 was eight years old. Yeah, so the mystery is who 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:20.600 was Joseph Newton Chandler the third, Mark two Mark the 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.880 more recent one? Yeah, so time for theories, right, was 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:26.919 not doing anything with that name? So what the hell? Yeah, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.920 why not pick it? May as well just use it, 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.360 just kidding, not theories yet, the probate lawyers are trying 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.640 to place this two dollar legacy, which isn't nothing. I 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.520 did the conversion even I mean, you know it was 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.760 only fifteen is years ago, but it did the conversion. 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.839 It's more than a hundred thousand dollars in today's money, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.080 and that's not nothing. When they started calling Chandlers, that 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.480 all of the Chandlers that they could find in the 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:56.520 East kind of where Chandler's mom was from, they quickly 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.840 found out that Joey, the original Joseph Noon Chandler the 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.400 Third had died in a car accident on December twenty 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:10.360 one with his parents in Texas on Highway US Highway 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.240 eighty two. That's a terrible Christmas. Yeah. They were on 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.520 their way to spend Christmas with the extended family, with 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.960 his father's extended family. UM, and they there's no details 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.239 really about I've read the news articles from the local 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.000 papers at the time, and there's not really any It 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.680 doesn't say what happened. Though it was a tragedy, it 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.719 wasn't extensively covered. So all three of them died and 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.440 they were all buried in Texas. That would I mean, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.880 that would make Joey's identity We're gonna call original Joey, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.000 the original Joseph nowon Chandler. Yeah, we're gonna call him 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.520 Joey because that's a lot of people referred him as that. 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.120 UM and then Joseph noon Chandler the third will probably 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.440 call Chandler. I might accidentally call him joe every once 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.599 in a while, because you know, there's no I'm not dead. Yeah, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.800 I'm not quite dead, not quite yet. Yeah. Anyway, it 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.719 would make Joey a pretty good target for identity theft. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:07.760 You know, his parents are dead, he doesn't seem to 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.320 have any close family relatives anything like that. So if 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.960 somebody were suddenly to start being this person who knows, 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.919 there's no parents to look up or anything like, oh yeah, no, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.120 there's there's nobody to catch it easily. So at this 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.720 point in the case are our new case, not our 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.520 old case, our two thousand two case. The U S. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.200 Marshals take over, as they do for a lot of 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.280 cases like this. So let's go back a little bit 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.680 to talk about Joey's life and then talk about how 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:44.360 Joseph Chandler, the third Chandler became b Yeah Chandler Bank, 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:50.000 how Chandler became Joey basically does that work? That works? Okay? 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:55.760 Joey was born on March eleven, nineteen seven, two parents 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:00.040 Ellen Chandler and Joseph Newton Chandler Jr. In the In 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.719 the United States of America's Social Security numbers assigned you 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.640 at birth. We know this, but it occurs to me 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.599 that people who don't live here might not know that. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.480 But this didn't really start in earnest until nineteen thirty 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.359 six was when I think the first Social Security number 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.359 was assigned, and then the cards weren't issued until you 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.520 were an adult and not continued until the seventies or 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.760 something like that. So Joey would have never had a 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.800 Social Security card, and it's likely that his birth certificate 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.120 was somewhere at his parents house and just kind of 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.640 got tossed. Yeah, I mean, his parents belonging. He's probably 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.920 would have been somebody would have taken that. And then 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.000 of course it just moves, and I mean it may 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.200 it may have just been burned or I mean, you know, 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.279 it could have just been gotten rid of because he died. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.520 You know, he is a certificate of birth so wide, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.120 you know, you shouldn't need that birth certificate anymore, and 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.080 there's nobody interest to keep it these days. Obviously, you 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.720 need your Social Security number to prove the your citizen, 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.240 and you need your car. A lot of employers will 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.120 require that you bring your actual cards what we can 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.919 see it. Um. But again in those days, that was 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.800 not the case. And you can get a replacement Social 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.800 Security card, and you can get a replacement birth certificate 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.760 these days, but you have to go through a lot 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:22.280 of stuff to get it these days. Process. No, it's not. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.000 Several decades ago, it was actually pretty easy. Yeah, it 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.320 turns out have we ever talked about. Joe might remember this. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.000 Back in the day when you used to be able 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.600 to eat, buy a wallet and it would have a 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.000 fake Social Security card in it. Does this bring a 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.200 bell to you at all? So it was it was 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:38.920 a thing to just be like and you could put 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.480 your social Security card in here, no big deal. And 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.320 it was obviously not a real social Security card, but 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.040 it had a social Security number on it, and it 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.880 what it was is it was the secretary at the 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.960 office of the company that manufactured the wallets. So security 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.720 numbers weren't that important of a thing, so they used 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.600 her social security numbering who would actually be dumb enough 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:08.160 to try to use this thing? And for decades people 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.800 were using that as their actually security number, if I 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.120 remember right. She had to eventually get a new one 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.880 because it was just so out of control. That's insane, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.360 that's that's thing to do. It's just one of those 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.280 weird things nobody really cares about. These are not important 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.400 and then just backfired. Yeah, well, it's relatively easy to 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.440 get a new Social Security card, not a number, but 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.319 a card these days. I know because I looked into 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.040 it because I thought I lost mine. Turns out my 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.839 parents had it. Don't worry. But really you can as 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.720 long as you're not getting I think it was you 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.240 can get ten a year or something like that, some 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.040 absurd number a year. I don't know. Maybe I mean this. 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.000 I'm just doing this from memory. But as a US 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.360 citizen who has a passport, all I would have to 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.280 do is take my passport and they would say, oh, yeah, 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.679 that's you. Yeah, great, no problem that. Obviously it's not 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.640 the case then, so are to become someone else, you 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.760 have to have their Social Security card and their birth 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.560 certificate pretty much, and Chandler had both of these things. Now, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.280 we talked about this a lot, so I'm just gonna 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:12.839 go ahead and like bite the bullet and talk a 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.920 little bit about who can get vital records is what 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:21.040 they call it. It's a birth certificates, original or certified 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.959 copies of birth certificates or death certificates. And and you're 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.120 going to reference organs specifically in this varies from it says, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.640 I can't imagine it varies. I really can't imagine it 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:37.840 varies that much. Actually, probably varies from state to state. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.760 I just I can't. I mean, this seems totally logical 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.240 to me, and I don't know why anybody would do 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.120 it any other way, but he and I'm sure that 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.360 in another state because I've seen things like this, like, oh, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.040 it's going to be that. I don't know, it's the same, Okay, Yeah, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.160 that's fair, that's fair. Yeah. So within the first hundred 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.680 years following the date of birth, those records are totally restricted, 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.160 which makes sense, right, yeah, because probably somebody isn't going 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.240 to live past a undred although these days. Yeah, So 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.600 if you are the person named on the record and 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.439 your fifteen years are older, you can order a certified 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:13.080 copy of a vital record and explain vital record. Again, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.120 it's a birth certificate or a death certificate, and I 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.880 think there's I think there's like two other ones. But 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.880 it has to do with your your status as a 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.960 existing being. No, it's not like marriage certificates are a 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.960 different thing. Your husband or wife or domestic partner who 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.440 is registered by the state can order a vital record 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.120 on you. A child, a parent, a step parent can 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.360 order something on you. Uh well, steparent until you're eighteen 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:47.040 can order a vild vital record, and your brother or sister, grandparents, grandchild, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:53.760 legal guardian, legal representative, authorized representative or government agency conducting 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.920 official duties that get one. I know it's surprisingly a lot, 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.679 there's a lot, but it's also it's a good list, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.360 I think. I mean, you know, there's definitely most eventualities. Yeah, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.240 it does open some stuff up, but you know, hey, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.080 when ordering a birth birth certificate, obviously you have to 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.439 say what your relationship is. You have to be able 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.080 to prove that it's you. But these are all things 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.760 that you have to do now. Back then, I think 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.000 it was as easy as writing a letter. If you 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.760 had someone's Social Security number, for instance, you just write 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.920 a letter and say this is my also Security number, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.240 this is me. I need a certified copy of my thing. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.520 And it was taking it face ut taken face yeah exactly. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.400 And then I know that that was true in the 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.120 seventies and this is now becoming relevant. We're off our 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.200 little side path, here we go. Chandler requested Joey's birth 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:54.080 certificate in nine as well as a Social Security card. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.880 It would be the first social Security card that Joseph 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.760 Newton Chandler. The third was issued, since he died when 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.280 he eight, he didn't have one yet anyway. He wrote 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:08.040 from Rapid City, South Dakota, which is where the both 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.920 documents were mailed to. Kind of a shock behind a house, 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.600 But it seems most likely to everybody who's investigated the 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.560 case that he didn't actually ever live there, that he 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.360 just checked the mailbox frequently, that it was kind of 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:28.120 you know, nobody was really in there. Yeah, yeah, really smart. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.640 He moved to least East Lake, Ohio right after that. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.840 And a website that doesn't exist anymore outside of the 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:37.840 way Back Machine, so you can see it on the 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.160 way Back Machine. Hopefully we'll post a link to it, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.160 because that's pretty good website. It's called crime shadows dot com. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.360 They reported that they did a check on when Chandler 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.760 ordered the documents, and they said that it had happened 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.040 that actually the Social Security card had been issued in 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.679 nineteen seventy three. I think you can probably chalk it 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.439 up to you like crappy handwriting or smudge typewriter. I mean, 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.520 three and eight are really close. If you yeah, if 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.000 you look at I mean we do this all the time. 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.440 We look at old photocopied typewritten documents that have been 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.480 photocopied a half dozen times. They degrade in a three 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.240 starts to look like an eight eight starts to look exactly. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.280 So I don't know, but I don't. I mean, it 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.800 would be great to know for sure, But barring going 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.040 to see those documents in person, the original documents, I 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.080 don't think we all know. So I'm happy to stick 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.040 with seventy eight? Are you guys happy to stick with? 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.760 So we'll say that Chandler became Joey in nine. And 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.680 I'm just now realizing how much like a friend's episode 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:50.640 this sounds like I was not making reference for no reasons. Sorry, guys, Sorry, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.360 So where's Monica? She's coming? Don't okay? Investigators found that 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.920 Chandler had probably lived in California for a time, maybe 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.000 working with the U. S. Navy, and then he moved 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.440 to Cleveland in nineteen seventy nine, and then he moved 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.920 into his last apartment in nineteen eighties six in East Lake, Ohio. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.439 I've never seen this clarified. How do they determine where 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.760 he lived? Like, I've never seen it specified. I can 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.120 tell you actually the answer to that question. They it's 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:24.080 on his job applications and his rental applications, so it's 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:29.240 just supplied from him. Not necessarily true. We don't know 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.440 that there's any truth to it based on a man 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:36.080 who was living under assumed identity for twenty seven years. Okay, 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.840 that makes me feel much better because I wondered if 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.840 it was something like that, but I never caught it. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.920 I think that his Cleveland in seventy nine is documented 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.600 because they think that's where he was working his first 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.320 job as an electrical engineer, and then his moved to 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.320 when he moved to East Lake, that was also documented, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.800 But his time in California is not document meanted. In fact, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.360 the company that he listed working for that was Contractors 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.760 for the U. S. Navy, had no record of him 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.240 ever working there. But again, he could have been working 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.040 under a different name. It's possible. I don't really know. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.040 It could be a completely false lead. Also, frankly, I'm 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.000 surprised that he got a job with putting a job 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:18.960 that he like, you know, the job previous to his, 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.520 and they didn't even bother calling them. But okay, it's seventies, 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.240 but it's an electrical engineer. You would kind of want 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.680 to know that that person knows what they're doing, wouldn't you. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.560 But it's the seventies and it's an era where again, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.760 you take things that people say it face now. And 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.400 if a guy says I know how to do this, 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:38.280 and you ask him some questions and he competently answers them, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.320 you believe him. Yeah. And also, they don't necessarily call 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.960 all your references. They might call one or two. Maybe 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.040 you would think they would call your most recent Yeah. Probably, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:52.600 But you know you can't overlook just laziness. That's the true, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.040 That's absolutely true. Yeah. Yeah, whoever it was doing, I 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.000 I didn't find anything fishy because I didn't find anything 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.440 because I didn't look for it exactly. Yeah. Chandler was 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.840 an electrical engineering designer. As we've been kind of talking about. 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.960 He did not have friends. I know that that's the 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:12.800 thing that people say, I don't really have friends. No, 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.360 he did not have friends. In fact, the guy who 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.320 was the executor of his will was a co worker 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.760 at his first job when he had two jobs that 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.640 are documented that he actually worked in, and this first 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.600 one was with ed Co Company ed Co Co and 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.800 he worked with this guy Mark, I think it was Mark. 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.400 It was Mark, and then he stated strongly that they 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.000 were not friends. He actually, uh, when you know, Joseph 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.440 Chandler asked him to be the executive as a state, 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.840 he agreed to it, thinking oh, he's never gonna he's 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.440 not gonna die. Well, he he really regrets that now, 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.680 he absolutely regrets it. And in fact, the only reason 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.440 that he became the executor um on the wheel is 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.840 because he was on the lease. He was a co 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.880 signer on the lease of chan Lar's most recent apartment, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.440 and that was because he went and was helping Chandler 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.280 with some documents and found out that it was actually 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.359 the landlord was going to be the co signer because 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.480 he really didn't have anyone and Mark felt bad and said, okay, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.280 I'll be a co signer with you on your lease. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.879 You're probably a trustworthy guy. And then since he was 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.760 the only name that they could definitively connect to him, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.439 they said, all right, it's your job to execute the will. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.600 He was never actually named as the executor of the 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.280 will by Chandel like Chandler never asked him to be 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.280 the executor. I would never do that co sign for 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.040 a co worker that I felt bad for. I mean again, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.840 things are much different now, but in terms of what 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.880 happens when you're a co signer and somebody filters out, 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.800 but no way. Yeah, probably not. Yeah, so, I mean 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.840 he did. He really genuinely didn't have friends. Mark the 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.040 executor was the closest thing to a friend. And I 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.480 know that you will find his last name out there, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.600 but in more recent interviews with him, he has asked 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.399 that his last name be left off of it. So 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.280 we're going to continue to just honor that. Even though 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.200 it's really easy to go find out what his last 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.359 name is, we're not going to be just spreading it 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.520 around the Chandler was just kind of mean from all 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.920 the coworker accounts. He was kind of an on ball. Yeah, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.719 he was really weird. He uh. There's one incident that 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.719 the co workers always recount, and this is genuinely the 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:30.199 only antecdote that exists about Chandler, right, and it is 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.560 that he drove to l l being in Maine, which 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.840 is like a twelve hour drive from the Ohio location. 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:42.959 Um East Lake closer. I don't know. I think there is, 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.399 but I don't know. In the seventies, what you know, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.879 I don't know why, Oh yeah, in the eighties or 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.040 maybe the nineties, but I mean even then, like I 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.040 don't know really where things were. But he drove twelve 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.760 hours to l being and he did one circle around 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.760 the parking lot and there were no spots, so he 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.920 just turned around and went drove home. And he was 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.800 quoted as saying, if they don't have a parking spot 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.240 for me, they don't have my business. That's fair, is 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.399 it seems a little psycho really? But yeah, I mean 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.679 that was a little crazy. So he drove for twenty 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:16.560 four hours for not Yeah, yeah, that's not normal. He 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.720 reportedly created a static noise machine or a white noise 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.439 machine that he had with him at all times, and 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.240 he listened to it in his headphones pretty much all 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.719 the time. I think he, you know, even when he 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.199 was out on jobs and things like that, which I 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.480 I recognize as a crazy thing. But also, if you 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.320 don't really like people or you don't want to interact 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.360 with people, that's a really good way to tune people out. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.919 It's canceling, that's what I mean. That's a that's a 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.000 great way to if you cannot think while other people 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.119 are just nattering along next to you, you got to 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.040 block him out, or if you can't stand other people. 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.120 I mean, it's it's even as simple as just being 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.520 annoyed by people or some sounds can really bug you too. 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.760 I know that there's certain sounds that really irritate the 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.600 hell to me, you know, So maybe there was a 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.720 lot of those sounds going on his office. Yeah, there's. Yeah, 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.880 there's definitely a couple of things that are more recently 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.760 diagnosed disorders that are recognized as actual mental disorders that 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.000 will make people like legitimately angry. That are noises that 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.800 are totally normal noises. But oh, I know, you know, 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.320 like I've had coworkers and people eat the yogurt out 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.520 of the little plastic thing and you get to the 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.159 bottom and it's always scritch, scrich. You know. That's that's 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.760 definitely that noise dressed me crazy. Yeah. Chandler told his 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.680 co workers that he had been married twice, once to 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.480 a Cuban woman who did not speak English. He spoke 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:43.159 of a sister Mary. I don't think so. I've never 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.000 seen anything that indicated that he did. I don't, so 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.359 don't ask me how they communicated. It would be an 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.520 interesting they were married. You don't communicate when you're married. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.080 I've I've heard that. Yes, he said that he had 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.080 a sister, Mary R. Wilson, who lived in Columbus, Ohio, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.840 and he listed her on some of his forms, but 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.840 the address was vacant, and Mary Wilson was probably totally 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.639 made up. There's really really good chance yea too, didn't he? 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.119 He sometimes said he had a brother. His stories about 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:23.480 himself were not usually the same. Although although the the 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.199 sister that he used, the address was the same for 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.320 all the applications. And I think even he referenced her 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.399 when he uh when he wrote for the cards or something. 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.080 There was something earlier that he referenced her in as well, 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.760 But you know, again, who knows. The investigators on this 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.960 case have some kind of descriptive things to say about 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.400 Chandler as well. They say that he lived a hermit's life. 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.480 His apartment was sparse but had a few books, and 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.480 the official profile is that he suffered obsessive compulsive disorder, 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.520 and he didn't drink or smoke, and was anti social 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.600 and seldom appeared to be at ease in public. So 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.760 total interviewer, introvert, yeah A. One of the one of 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.320 the other interesting traits is he was an engineer, of course, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.560 and so engineers have a certain kind of personality kind 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.919 of thing. He never wrote in cursive script. He i 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.880 was wrote in block block letters, all all caps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.479 and you know, from what everybody can tell, he was 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.119 really really intelligent and they think they knew that he 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.639 knew what he was doing, that he was really living 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.360 the perfect life to keep off the radar. I mean, 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.840 he wasn't what he was doing to with his false 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:40.080 identity and yeah, exactly. Yeah, he didn't spend a lot 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.520 of money, He didn't buy anything that would raise red flags. 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.200 He didn't partake in any kind of habitual behavior where 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.760 he didn't smoke it and drink and go out, so 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.080 you know, he did he led a quiet life. He 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:58.159 had they call it a modest bank account, which is 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.600 probably true. And he really didn't move around a lot, 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.080 you know, he was he was he was really good 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:10.840 at attracting attention, not attracting attention. Yeah, sorry, yeah, well yeah, 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:12.480 I could see why you wouldn't move that off And 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:13.840