1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. Now today we're 3 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: going to dive into a topic that I've sort of 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: been to admit kind of tuning out a little bit 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: um for my own kind of mental health. I found 6 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: myself sort of tuning out the news because it's massively, 7 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: massively depressing. But you know what, that is a huge privilege. 8 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: Not everyone has the ability to just sort of tune 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: out news, but it does not necessarily affect them personally. 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: And I kind of checked back in and everything is 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: on fire and things are horrible. That's a pretty accurate statement. Yes, 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: So we wanted to dive into one of those topics, 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: which is the crisis at our borders, which is really quickly. 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: One thing to know is that we're recording this on Wednesday, 15 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: and while we were putting together notes, there was sort 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: of breaking news on that front just really early this morning. 17 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: So by the time you listen to this, things could 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: be different. It's very much a situation that's in flux. 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: So if you listen to this and say, oh, they 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: didn't mention this new thing that happened, it probably happened 21 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: after we've recorded So the first thing to know about 22 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: this situation is that it is hella confusing, and I 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,279 Speaker 1: feel like that's probably by design. Yeah, I would agree. 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: Press and lawmakers are having a hard time getting access 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: to detention centers and thus are having a hard time 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: reporting on it. When CNN went there, they were not 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: allowed to take pictures or bring camera and the only 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: images that were allowed were the ones provided by the 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security. Yeah, so you can imagine what 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily providing the full picture of what's happening. 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: And you've actually seen interesting cases of folks who have 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: worked for these centers and for DHS who are leaking 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: video from inside or audio from inside. On the Rachel 34 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: matt Ol Show, a former employee end up getting this 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: audio of one of the officials at one of these 36 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: centers telling a bunch of children in Spanish. You know, 37 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: don't talk to reporters about your situation. We're trying to 38 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: help you. We really want to unite you with your family. 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: If you talk to reporters about what's going on, you 40 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: could be on the news, and who knows how long 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: you'll be here, you know, which is a pretty thing 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to tell a bunch of kids who one are really 43 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: confused already and too aren't with their parents if they're 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: miners that are really not able to be, you know, 45 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: making these kinds of decisions kind of stuff. Yeah. Absolutely. 46 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: Another thing making it confusing is that the administration is 47 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: being super unclear about everything to the point of downright 48 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: lying and gas lighting. Yes, if you listen to our 49 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: episode on gas lighting, you know that myself had plenty 50 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: of others feel like they're being gaslighted by this administration. 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: This is a situation where it's a very clear like 52 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: when you actually sit down and look at all of 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: the things different high ranking people and this one administration 54 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: have said that our contradictory that are flat out untrue. 55 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: When you look at all of them side by side, 56 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: you feel like you're losing your mind. You feel like 57 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: where it's one of those situations where you are we 58 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: are really being gasolt on a national scale. There's no 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: other way to put it. So here are just some 60 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: of the things that this one administration have said so 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: far about this policy. Trump blamed Democrats on the policy 62 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: of separating families at the border. He tweeted, separating families 63 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: at the border is the fault of bad legislation passed 64 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: by the Democrats. Border security laws should be changed, but 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: the Dams can't get their act together. So he's saying, Okay, 66 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: this policy exists, but it's the Democrats fault. They have 67 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: maintained that there was no policy of separating families at 68 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: the border. Secretary of Homeland Security Kristen Nielsen tweeted, we 69 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period. 70 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: This misreporting by members, press and advocacy groups must stop. 71 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: It is irresponsible and unproductive. So you know what policy, 72 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: policy does not exist, and Democrats did it right. Yeah, 73 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: So they said that they were using separating families at 74 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: the border as a way of deterring immigrants from coming 75 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: to America. White House Chief of Staff John Kelly has 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: said this, and Jeff Sessions have said this. They've started 77 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: on vid you, so you know they've sat it, We've 78 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: seen it with our eyes. They've maintained that separating families 79 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: at the border is actually biblically mandated. Jeff Sessions said 80 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: this during a speech. According to The Hill, Session cited 81 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: scripture while defending this policy, saying I would cite to 82 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: you the Apostle paud is clear and wise command in 83 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: Romans thirteen to obey the laws of the government because 84 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: God was ordained them for the purpose of order. Um. 85 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: He said this at a speech in Fort Wayne, Indiana. 86 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert did a piece on this on that specifically 87 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: where he went on to read Romans ten, which it continues, 88 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to 89 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: a neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law. Yeah, 90 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: but that particular piece of scripture does not justify intense cruelty. 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: So you just didn't ignore it, right, Yeah, And other 92 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: people have pointed out that scripture was also used to 93 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: justify slavery. Yeah, we should like, what are we using 94 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: the scripture to justify I mean, yeah, the whole the 95 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: whole thing is a farce. Yeah. Separating families at the 96 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: border is be use as a negotiation tool. Trump tweeted 97 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: Democrats can fix their forced family break up at the 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: border by working with Republicans on new legislation. It seems 99 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: to be what he's suggesting there is that these children 100 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: are being used as a kind of bargaining chip to 101 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: get his wall, which is pretty disgusting. Another thing that 102 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: he has said is that his hands were tied and 103 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: that he could not overturn this policy by an executive order, 104 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: that he needed Democrats and Congress to get their act 105 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: together to do anything at all. His hands were tied. 106 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: He said, I hate the children are being taken away. 107 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: Trump told reporters on June fifteen, the Democrats have to 108 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: change their law. It's their law. When he was pressed 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: on using executive action, he said, I can't do it 110 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: through executive order. But obviously that was a lie, because 111 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: on June he did exactly that, signing an executive order 112 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: to keep parents and children together in detention. More on 113 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: that later, but pretty clearly that's there's just a lie. 114 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: There's like, there's like no other way to put it. 115 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: He said one thing, and then his own behavior illustrated 116 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: that thing, that he was on camera saying it was 117 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: not true. The Washington Post has a great video rundown 118 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: of just a slice of some of the contradictory statements 119 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: coming out of this administration. I want to focus on 120 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: the American families who have been permanently separated from their 121 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: children because of the sanctuary cities and open borders that 122 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton so strongly supports our Department of Homeland Security 123 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: personnel going to separate the children from their moms and dads. Yes, 124 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: I am considering in auder to deter I am considering 125 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 1: exactly that. I hate it, but that's a Democrat bill 126 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: that we're enforcing. If I included things from just you know, 127 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: spokespeople who are not in the administration, this whole segment 128 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: would be about showing how much they lie. But I 129 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: only specifically chose statements public statements from actual Trump administration officials. 130 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: And this is how unclear it's being. And so when 131 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: I was just compiling this, by the end of it, 132 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 1: I felt dizzy. It was like, what is our policy? 133 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: Is there a policy? It? Like? Is it? Basically you're 134 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: saying there is no policy, But if there is, it's 135 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: a Democrats fault and it would be a really good 136 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: bargaining tool if there was, And actually it would be 137 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: biblically mandated if we had one, but we don't have one. 138 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: And if we did have one, Trump could not get 139 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: rid of it by executive order, but he did, so 140 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: you can get a sense of why this is a 141 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: dizzying situation. Yeah, it reminds me of the narcissist prayer 142 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: that you brought up in the guest. Yeah, pains me 143 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: to say this. This is such a good example of 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: gas lighting from our administration. I mean, I'm someone who 145 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: pays pretty careful attention to the news generally when I'm 146 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: not making a conscious effort to check out of it, 147 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: and I feel like I don't have a lot of 148 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: clarity about what's going on. And so imagine your average 149 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: person who is, you know, a casual observer of the news. 150 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: We don't have a situation where it's easy to understand 151 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: what's going on in your own country, and that's a problem. Yeah, absolutely, 152 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: So what's really going on? There are a couple of 153 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: things that we can we can tell you. These are 154 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: are sort of if we go back to the aus 155 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: lighting up the stud this is my gas light where 156 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: I know this is a number because I saw it 157 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: on an official statement. You know, I know this is 158 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: happening because I saw a picture of it, right, Yeah, 159 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: your facts that you can refer back to your journal entry. Yeah, 160 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: we know that at least two thousand two children were 161 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: separated from their parents between May five and June nine 162 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: as a result of Trump's policy exactly. So one question 163 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: that I've seen sort of floating around a lot is 164 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: why is this happening? And I want to make it 165 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: clear that a lot of folks have this narrative of 166 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: people who cross our borders they're doing so because they're 167 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: fleeing economic oppression. And so for a long time that 168 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: was definitely true that your average person crossing the border 169 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: was a man who was looking to find work to 170 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: send money back home. But because of really really violent 171 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: situations in Central America, places like Hondores, places like a Salvador, 172 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: now you have people who are fleeing with their entire family. 173 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: So the situation is really really changed. Many people are 174 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: fleeing intense violence, gangs, and political turmoil in Central America. 175 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: And this is really sounds like a terrible situation for 176 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: people who have children, boys of a certain age when 177 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: they become you know, tan eleven twelve, a lot of 178 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: them are really targeted and pressured by gangs to join 179 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: their gang, and if they don't, it could have really 180 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: really violent outcomes. And parents sometimes have to work extra 181 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: to get money to provide security for their kids if 182 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: they want this to be a situation their kids avoid. 183 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: It's also bad for girls and places like call Salvador 184 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: and on Honduras, because they're targeted at an early age 185 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: to either be sexually abused or to become gang members. 186 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: According to the Atlantic, the eventual fate of a girl, 187 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: whether she's left alone, harassed into joining a gang, or 188 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: forced into becoming a sex slave, depends entirely on local 189 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: leaders or palabrero's who run the local cells or clicks 190 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: of two of the largest gangs, MS thirteen and Barrio eighteen. 191 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: And it really just sounds like a terrifying situation for 192 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: people who have children. I'm reminded of this really beautiful 193 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: um worse on Shire, a poem she writes, no one 194 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: puts their children on a boat unless the water is 195 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: safer than the land. And that just really hits home 196 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: for me, because I think we need to remember that 197 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: fleeing economic oppression, to me is valid. But a lot 198 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: of times people are fleeing really serious life or death situations. 199 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: They're not coming here for fun. When you talk to 200 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: so many of them, they say, if if I could 201 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: have the choice to stay home, you don't think I would. Yeah, yeah, 202 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: of course they would. You know, people are coming with 203 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: very young children, and they know that they're making a 204 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: very dangerous and tough decision to cross our borders, and 205 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: no one would do that with a baby, with a 206 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: baby under five unless they didn't have a choice. Yeah, 207 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: I read that. People have been trying to figure out, 208 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: I mean, whether this works at all as a deterrent 209 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: separating families of the border, and most everyone that they've 210 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: talked to is said, that doesn't even factor into your 211 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: mind when you make the decision I have to flee 212 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: from my life, in my family's life. You're not thinking 213 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: beyond that. You're thinking, this is a dangerous situation and 214 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: I have to get out of it. And no one 215 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: is going to make that. Yeah, no one's going to 216 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: make that choice, that dangerous choice, unless they feel like 217 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: there is no other option. Right. I know there's someone 218 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: out there thinking, why don't they just call the police? 219 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: What don't they just do that? That's not an option 220 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: in a lot of these places. All these places they 221 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: have such political turmoil that there really isn't a lot 222 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: of action or recourse you could take. Right if a 223 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: local gang is saying you need to pay me x 224 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: amount of money every week or I'm going to kill 225 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: you in your family, and you don't have that money, 226 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: you don't have options to to do anything else, and 227 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: so it just seems unimaginably cruel and not compassionate to 228 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: not allow folks who are fleeing very serious life or 229 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: death situations to do so. Sign Note I would also 230 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: add that some of these places, I would argue, the 231 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: reason why they have such political turboil and distabilities actually 232 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: because of US foreign policy intervention. And so it's kind 233 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: of like, oh, you're gonna make it so that my 234 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: country is not a stable or safe place to live 235 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: and then bar me from getting out of that situation, 236 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: which to me is just unfathomable. Yeah, and to make 237 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: matters worse, earlier this month, Jeff Sessions barred domestic violence 238 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: and gang violence as reasons to seek legal asylum in 239 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: the United States. So previously, if you were actually fleeing, 240 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, violence, incredibly you could come to the United States. 241 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: That was that was how we did business. And honestly, 242 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions, this move of barring domestic violence victims from 243 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: speaking legal asylum in the United States just let's be clear. 244 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: People will die at the hands of their abusers because 245 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: of that choice. Like there's no other way to say it. 246 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: People will die, and it will be. That policy is 247 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: going to get people killed for sure, no doubt about it. Yeah, 248 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: I know, I heard a report from someone. It already has. 249 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: They've some reporters have like followed back to see what 250 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: happened to people who are turned away, and it already has. 251 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: Here's a good summary based on a box piece. Let's 252 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: say you're fleeing a dangerous country like Honduras. You could 253 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: go to a U s port of entry like a 254 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: border checkpoint and claim asylum, which is legal. But if 255 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: you cross the border not at a point of entry, 256 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: it's a misdemeanor. If you're caught doing this, officials interview 257 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: you to make sure you have quote credible fear if 258 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: sent back to your home country. This is to determine 259 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: whether you are eligible to go in front of a 260 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: judge and seek asylum. About three and four people are 261 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: deemed credible. So before Trump's zero tolerance policy, those who 262 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: were deemed to have a credible fear would be put 263 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: on a track to seed immigration judge who would figure 264 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: out whether or not they could be granted asylum. Again, 265 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: it used to be if you were fleeing violence, domestic 266 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: violence or gang violence, that kind of thing. You could 267 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: be granted asylum in the United States at that point 268 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: if you actually are fleeing violence. The US has to 269 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: keep asylum seekers because federal international law says they can't 270 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: just support people back to places where they would face danger. 271 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: And before Trump's zero tolerance policy, families generally would be 272 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: kept in detention together while they waited for the results 273 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: of these proceedings. Now, some families were released and told 274 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: to come back for a court date. Others were kept 275 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: waiting at attention for up to twenty days, and if 276 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: they had not seen a judge by then, they were 277 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: released and told to return for a court date at 278 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: some point during the future. If you recall, during the 279 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: Obama administration, this was sometimes called catch and release. It 280 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: was a policy of sort of okay, come back, we'll 281 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: figure it out later. And Trump really vowed to sort 282 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: of end this this policy. Yeah, and here are some 283 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: of the things that are different about Trump's approach. Instead 284 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: of first figuring out whether you should be granted asylum, 285 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: the administration's first step is now to deal with the 286 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: other matter at hand, the misdemeanor for a legal entry. 287 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: Upon being apprehended by border patrol, you are set aside 288 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: to be detained by U. S. Marshals and sent to 289 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: a federal jail to await trial. And this is where 290 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: the separation happens. Because a child can't go with you 291 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: to federal jail, he or she is taken from you 292 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: and put under the supervision of the Department of Health 293 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: and Human Services. And this is where you have those awful, 294 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: awful pictures of children in cages. And for a while, 295 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: there was no set process for how these kids would 296 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: be reunited with their parents. Now, just early this morning, 297 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: a couple of hours before we were in the studio, 298 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: eight judge sort of made a ruling that families had 299 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: to be reunited after thirty days. It's just a brand 300 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: new thing. We'll talk more about that in just a bit, 301 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: But for the majority of this conversation, there was not 302 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: a process in place for how kids would be reunited 303 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: with their parents. In detention centers, a lot of immigrants 304 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: don't have phone access, and sometimes it's taken parents months 305 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: to track down their kids. Additionally, some parents are being 306 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: deported without their children, and advocates say that some children 307 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: are being deported without their parents, and it just sounds 308 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: like a really convoluted situation where parents are not being 309 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: kept abreast of what's happening with their kids and vice versa. Yeah, 310 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: and a common refrain that you'll hear when this this 311 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: whole thing comes up, is well, Obama and Bush separated 312 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: families too, and that's awful. But Trump's zero tolerance policy 313 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: is what makes it different. While past policy also attempted 314 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: to dissuade illegal border crossing, the zero tolerance part of 315 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: this is new. The Obama policy made exceptions for families 316 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: crossing the border with children to avoid separating them. According 317 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: to figures obtained by The Washington Post, only about cases 318 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: between two thousand ten and two thousand and sixteen were 319 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: referred for federal prosecution per CNN. Under both Obama and 320 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: his predecessor, President George W. Bush, tens of thousands of 321 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: illegal immigrants were prosecuted via operations streamline, so as Politofacts reports, 322 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: most parents traveling with children were exempted. So yeah, that's 323 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: really a key difference, which is that there were exceptions made. 324 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: You know, I don't. I want to be clear. I 325 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: was a big, big, vocal critic of Obama's immigration policies, 326 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people on the left 327 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: were and so, but I do know that Obama's administration 328 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: was legitimately facing an increase of immigrants coming through our borders, 329 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: and so I think they implemented policies that I was 330 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: very vocally against in order to deal with that. The 331 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: Trump administration is dealing with no such influx of immigrants, 332 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: and they are really kind of running wild with this 333 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: immigration apparatus that the Obama administration really did set up. 334 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: And so, to be clear, Obama's immigration policies are what 335 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: helped create the roadmap for where we are today, and 336 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: Trump is really sort of running with that. I've heard 337 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: people say things like Obama built this apparatus and then 338 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: gave the keys to a madman who was Trump. During 339 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: the Obama administration, a federal judge in California ruled that 340 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: Obama was violating a twenty year old case known as 341 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: Flores when it kept families detained for longer than twenty days. 342 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: The Trump administration has used the Florest settlement as the 343 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: backbone for separation policies today. So that's our a lot. 344 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's infuriating, that's a lot it is, but 345 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: that's sort of what's going down. Yeah, let's get more 346 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: into the conditions and what they're like for the kids 347 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: who are being detained. But first let's take a quick 348 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 349 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So to me, one of the saddest things. 350 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't know why this this particular nugget really stuck 351 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: with me, but one of the saddest things I found 352 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: about the situation is that parents a lot of times 353 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: are being sort of missed lead about what's going on 354 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: with their kids, and they don't find out until it's 355 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: too late. According to federal defenders, some border patrol agents 356 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: are straight up lying to families about how long they're 357 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: being separated and why. A federal defender told Washington Posts 358 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: Michael E. Miller that parents were told their children were 359 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: just being taken away briefly for questioning. Liz Goodwin of 360 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: the Boston Globe sites a defender saying that in several cases, 361 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: children were taken by border patrol agents who said they 362 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: were going to give them a bath. As the hours passed, 363 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: it's suddenly dawn on the mothers that the kids were 364 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: not coming back. I can't imagine what that would be like, having, 365 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: first of all, a stranger taking my kid and saying 366 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give your kid a bath. Already that would 367 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: be bad enough, but then waiting as these hours go by, 368 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: and realizing I might not see her again, she might 369 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: not be coming back. Yeah, it reminds me, and I 370 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: do hate when people just bring up the Nazis all 371 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: the time. But I did visit Auschwitz when I was 372 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: in Germany, and you kind of have this expectation, you 373 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: know it's gonna be miserable, you know, the kind of 374 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: kinds of things you're gonna see. But the room that 375 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: I broke john and started crying in was the room 376 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: where it had all of the suitcases children had packed. 377 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: Then they were excited because they were told like, you're 378 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: going to kind of go to this fun like you're 379 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: gonna get away and go to somewhere nice, and just 380 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: suitcases as far as you could see of kids who packed, 381 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: and it's just horrendous, heartbreaking, it is. Yeah. So so 382 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: I want to say two things about that. Artists have 383 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: done a photography series of photographing all of the things 384 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: these kids bring. Because when you show up at these centers, 385 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: they take your belongings. So if you come with like 386 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: a teddy bear or like a doll. They take that 387 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: from you. And there's something so heartbreaking about the things 388 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: a migrant child brings when they're making this dangerous journey 389 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: for their lives and then knowing that someone took that 390 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: from them. You know, it's something something about that is 391 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: so powerful to me. And again, what you said about 392 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: this idea that the kids were excited, that reminds me 393 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: so much of all of these gig holes in the 394 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: media saying things like, oh, it's basically a summer camp. 395 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: It's no different than when you go to boarding school. 396 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: It's like people saying, oh, they get to watch movies, 397 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: they get to play games. They're not what their parents 398 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: their kids like. You could take me from my parents 399 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 1: and take put me on a Caribbean cruise. If I'm 400 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: not with my mom and I'm a kid, that's that's 401 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: a problem. And the fact of the matter is if 402 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: it's a summer camp and send your kids there, That's 403 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: what I want to say. If it's a summer camp, 404 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: then I would like Laura Ingram to send her daughter there. 405 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: If it's if it's so nice, I'm such a nice experience. Yeah, 406 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: And just the uncertainty and not knowing it would be 407 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: so scary. You don't know what's going on. You're just 408 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: you're just in this place without your parents, and very 409 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: young babies are being taken from their parents. Three centers 410 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: in Combs, Raymondville, and Brownsville in southern Texas called tender 411 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: age centers, which have been repurposed to house the youngest migrants, 412 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: including those younger than five. The Associated Press reported within 413 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: three days, the children are supposed to be transferred from 414 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: immigration detention to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is 415 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The 416 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: CEO of Southwest Key, which operates twenty six o r 417 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: R shelters, tells NPR the children at his facilities range 418 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: from ages zero to seventeen. Babies babies, So here's why 419 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: that's so bad. One former detention center worker who recently 420 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: quit because of all of these conditions, he has been 421 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: really vocal about speaking out about what's happening. He basically 422 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: said that the most part before this policy, young people 423 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,719 Speaker 1: who crossed the border eight percent of the time, they 424 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: were teenagers who were doing it alone, and they sort 425 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: of knew the drill, They knew what to expect. Usually 426 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: they'd be detained for a while and then they would 427 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: go live with the family mem but or sometimes their 428 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: own parents. And so these were older kids who sort 429 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: of knew the drill. Now it's very young babies who 430 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: are basically traumatized. This worker says, ad e quit because 431 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: the shelter where he worked in Tucuna, Arizona, which previously 432 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: had been pretty well run and well organized and was 433 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: able to provide a at least some sort of structure 434 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: for these kids, is now just overwhelm, helmed by an 435 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: influx of younger, more traumatized, really babies, which is sort 436 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: of a change from how things had been up until 437 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, and when you think of just the 438 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: logistics of it, a baby is not going to be 439 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: able to speak, to tell you the names of his 440 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: or her parents exactly. Yeah. I read a I read 441 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: a really troubling and report that a girl was being 442 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: detained with a baby, and that she didn't know this baby, 443 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 1: it wasn't a relative of hers, and she was changing 444 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: the baby's diaper because it was just such a chaotic 445 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: situation that you had, like a young girl taken care 446 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: of an even younger girl because the detention center was 447 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: just that ill equipped to handle it. So this worker 448 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: who quit, He actually says that his breaking point came 449 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: when he had to tell two siblings, ages six and ten, 450 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: they couldn't hug each other. They called me over the 451 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: radio and they wanted me to translate to these kids 452 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: that the rule of the shelter is that they were 453 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: not allowed to hug, he says. And these kids had 454 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: just been separated from their mom, basically just huddling and 455 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: hugging each other in a desperate attempt to remain together. 456 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: He had to say, you can't hug. That would break me. 457 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: I would quit too. I would not I would not 458 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: be able to do that. Yeah, that's like villain movie 459 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: villain level of barbaric, like no hugging Southwest. Key says, 460 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: it as a clear policy that allows touching and hugging 461 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: in certain circumstances. So who knows, I mean. The American 462 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: Academy of Pediatrics has said the practice of separating children 463 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: from their parents at the border can cause the children 464 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: quote irreparable harm, which, of course it's traumatic. Babies, particularly 465 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: baby babies, like every kid I think to be with 466 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: their parents, but babies being taken and put in a shelter, 467 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: I mean, baby jails. How will we come to this? Yeah, 468 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it already, Propablica obtained this audio 469 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: of baby's wailing and it's just unbearable. Let's take a 470 00:23:50,960 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: quick listen. If that doesn't kind of move you to 471 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: wanna take action and help these kids, Yeah, it's it's 472 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: it's almost hard to talk about for me. Someone who 473 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: was seemingly unmoved by this. This audio is Homeland Security 474 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: Secretary Kristin Nielsen. Protesters in d C stood outside of 475 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: her house and played this audio very loudly to sort 476 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: of drive home the message that hey, this is what 477 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: you're this is what you're doing. The Associated Press visited 478 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: one site and described a large, dark facility with separate 479 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: wings for children, adults, and families inside an old warehouse 480 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: in South Texas. Hundreds of children weight in a series 481 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: of cages created by metal fencing. One cage had twenty 482 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: children inside scattered about our bottles of water, bags of chips, 483 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets. That 484 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a summer camp to me. Yeah, there 485 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: was no situation like that in any of the summer 486 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 1: camps that I went to. I'm very curious what kind 487 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: of summer camps. Laura Ingram went to that this sounds like, yeah, yeah, seriously, 488 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: this turned into a whole other, frankly silly debate about 489 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: whether or not the kids were being kept in cages. 490 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: It is not in dispute that children are being kept 491 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: in chain link structures, but the administration bristled at the 492 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: word cages because we're in that much of an Orwellian 493 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: nightmare right now. Yeah, that whole debate that was a 494 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: blip in the new cycle of well are they cages 495 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: or are they chain link structures? I could give a Like, 496 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: I was so horrified. Some of the conversations that have 497 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: dominated the new cycle on this issue have made me nauseated. 498 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: Me are they actually cages? Is it civil to kick 499 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: somebody out of a restaurant? I could give a Kids 500 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: are in real, real bad situations. The fact that we've 501 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: kind of even allowed this conversation to even be slightly 502 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: dominated by these frankly the silliness is in enrages me 503 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: to know, and it makes it boils my blood. Yeah. 504 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: Another thing that boils my blood of the policies, especially 505 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: cruel to children's special needs and when Abundant on Fox 506 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: News bought up a ten year old girl with Down 507 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: syndrome who was taken from her mother at the border. 508 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: Former Donald Trump campaign chief Korey Lewandowski said, wo wom Literally, 509 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: here's the clip I read today about a ten year 510 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: old girl with Down syndrome who was taken from her 511 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: mother and put in a cage. I read about a 512 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: they just they want want to a ten year old 513 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: with Down syndrome. Anything you worked out, but the bottom 514 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: line is when you cra absolutely can you imagine being 515 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: this much of a toll? I mean, when I saw this, 516 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: I was I just thought, I hate to say, oh, 517 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: such and such as a monster, because I think when 518 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: we demonize people who make bad laws and me say 519 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: they're monsters, it divorces us from the idea that they're 520 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: just like us. They're people who are responsible for really 521 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: bad policy, but it sort of like allows us to 522 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: remove ourselves from them. But when I saw this, I thought, 523 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: this guy is a monster. This guy is an whole 524 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: and a monster, and I hate him, Like I was 525 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: so enraged when I saw this clip, so enraged. And 526 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: he also refused to apologize for it. So another, this 527 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: guy sounds like a real gem. So already, quick break 528 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: because I'm getting a little a little heated. But I'm 529 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: gonna talk more about where we're at with this situation 530 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: and sort of what can be done about it. After 531 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: a quick break, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So, 532 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: after much outcry, Trump signed an executive order, even though 533 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: he specifically said that he had no power to do 534 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: this earlier because he's a liar and an hole, he 535 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: did sign on an executive order that made some movement 536 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: on this policy. So basically, his order said that families 537 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: will be kept together while awaiting proceedings. To be clear, 538 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: it does not end his zero talents policy or include 539 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: any plan for how the children who were already separated 540 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: from their parents will be reunited. And so there was 541 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, well done Trump, blah blah 542 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: blah that because it really didn't do that much at all. 543 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: And again, I have a hard time taking this seriously 544 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: because just days after he was sort of cajoled into 545 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: signing this order, he was joined by what he called 546 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: angel families, people who have lost loved ones at the 547 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: hands of undocumented immigrants, in an attempt to shift the 548 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: focus of his horrible policies. These families held poster sized 549 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: photos of their slain offspring that Trump decided was an 550 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: appropriate thing to actually autograph, which to me seems a 551 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: little bit tactless, but whatever. I guess I'm not president now. 552 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: Trump actually tried to make this really I think unfair 553 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: rhetorical point that we're all up in arms about kids 554 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: who are being separated from families temporarily quote unquote, when 555 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: we've got families who are separated permanently because of quote 556 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: the violence of undocumented immigrants. He said, these are American 557 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: citizens permanently separated from their loved ones, the word permanently 558 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: being the word that you have to think about. Permanently. 559 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: They're not separated for a day or two days, permanent separated. 560 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Trump said, basically, you know, I know that it's very, 561 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: very tragic to lose a loved one, um, and I 562 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: think that people who have lost loved ones to violence 563 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: or the actions of undocumented immigrants should, you know, speak 564 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: up about that. I'm not saying they shouldn't, and I 565 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: feel for them, but using that to make the case 566 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: for his atrocious policies at our border is just it's 567 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: not fair. Because he's sort of going off with this 568 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: idea that undocumented immigrants are responsible for crime, which is 569 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: just a lie. There's no truth to it. According to 570 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: a report from the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, 571 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: one point five three percent of Native born Americans are incarcerated. 572 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: Now compare that with the point eight five percent of 573 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants and the point or seven percent of legal immigrants. 574 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: The Martial Project and did an analysis of data from 575 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: two hundred metropolitan areas over the last few decades. They've 576 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: found that crime has actually fallen despite immigrant populations increasing, 577 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: and other studies of much agreed that immigration has really 578 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: no effect on crime. So Trump kind of saying that, oh, 579 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: the reason I'm doing this is because there's all of 580 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: these immigrants are coming into our country and covening crimes. 581 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: That's just actually not a correct statement, even if he 582 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: gets on a stage and says otherwise. Yeah. And on 583 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: Tuesday night, a judge ruled that families had to be 584 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: reunified in thirty days. A judge in California on Tuesday 585 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: ordered US border authorities to reunite separated families within the 586 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: thirty days, setting a hard deadline and a process that 587 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: has so far yielded uncertainty about when children might see 588 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: their parents. If children are younger than five, they must 589 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: be reunified within fourteen days of the order issued tuesday 590 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: by US District Judge Dana Sapra in San Diego. Sabra 591 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: and appointee of President George W. Bush, also issued a 592 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: nationwide injunction on future family separations unless the parent is 593 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: deemed unfit or doesn't want to be with a child. 594 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: It also requires the government to provide phone contact between 595 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: parents and their children within ten days. So I'm glad 596 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: we have a little bit of clarity on this situation, 597 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: which so far has been very unclear for these kids. 598 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: So I know this is a heartbreaking cluster of just awful, awful, 599 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: but what can be done? So here's some things that 600 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: you should know. One, if you're thinking this sounds like 601 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: a nightmare, something that you should know is there's a 602 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: growing chorus of folks on the left who are actually 603 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: talking seriously about abolishing ice. So you might be thinking 604 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: that sounds wild, we need ice. But actually, even though 605 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: ice seems like a very big part of our political 606 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,239 Speaker 1: system now, it's really only been a thing since two 607 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: thousand three. It was created in response to nine eleven 608 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: under the Bush administration, which combined twenty two different federal 609 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: agencies into a new cabinet level department. Now, for decades, 610 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: the Immigration and Naturalization Service or I and S had 611 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: handled legal immigration and the enforcement of immigration laws, but 612 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: under the massive government restructuring in two thousand three, those 613 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: tasks were split among three new agencies. Now, we should 614 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: do a long follow up episode on the awful racist 615 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: failures of ICE as an organization, but Tina Vasquest has 616 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: a really good piece on rewire dot com called the 617 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: New Ice Age An Agency Unleashed that will link to 618 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: in the show notes, and she basically charts how horrible 619 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: ICE is and how we got to this situation, and 620 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: basically it just sounds like something needs to be done 621 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: about ICE. She's a really telling quote from a former 622 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: ICE official. The American public needs to begin wrapping its 623 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: head around the disproportionate political power that ICE wields. The 624 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: most extreme environment isn't extreme enough for them. Under Trump, 625 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: ICE can do more damage than we've ever seen. So 626 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: it really sounds like this is an agency that could 627 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: use some oversight, could use some restructuring, could use something 628 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: because it's not it's not working now. And actually you 629 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: have lawmakers on the left who are formally getting behind 630 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: this idea of abolishing ice. Congressman Mark Pecan out of 631 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: Wisconsin announced that he would introduce a bill to abolish 632 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: ICE and cracked down on the agency's blanket directive target 633 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: and around up individuals and families and New York givenntorial 634 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: candidate Cynthia Nixon called for ice to be abolished last week, 635 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: and a number of congressional candidates, including deb Holland, who 636 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: won her primary New Mexico earlier this month, of done 637 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: the same. This week. Three Democratic members of Congress have 638 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: joined them. So that's something to keep in mind. I 639 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: think we should do an entire episode on this concept 640 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: of abolishing ice, which I would love to do. But 641 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, if that's something that you think, oh gee, 642 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: that sounds like a good idea, definitely do some more, 643 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: some more digging into this this growing chorus of folks 644 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: that are calling for us to be abolished. Another thing 645 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: that you can do is reach out to your lawmakers, 646 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: even if they've already heard from you, they need to 647 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: note that you will not stand for families being separated 648 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: at the borders. You can donate to the Refugee and 649 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services are AI c 650 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: e S. It is a five oh one C three 651 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: nonprofit that promotes justice by providing free and low cost 652 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: legal services to underserved immigrants, children, families, and refugees and 653 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: Central and South Texas. R A i c e S 654 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: is the largest immigration nonprofit in Texas, with offices in Austin, Corpus, Dallas, 655 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: Fort Worth, Houston, and San Antonio. And you may have 656 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: actually seen this viral donation campaign going around Facebook where 657 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: they actually raised a record breaking twenty million dollars for 658 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: the organ So that's great. And another thing you can 659 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: do is show up to a rally. There's going to 660 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: be huge rallies and protests all over the country tomorrow. 661 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this on Friday tomorrow, j you 662 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: can go to Families Belong Together dot org to find 663 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: a rally near you. I'll be at the one in 664 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: d C. So if you come, be sure to tweet 665 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: at me say hello, I'll be there. I'll be very angry, 666 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: but I'll be there. Um. Yeah, I think if you're 667 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: if this is an issue that breaks your heart like 668 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: it breaks my heart show up for it. Absolutely, we 669 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. In the meantime. You 670 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: can email us at mom Stuff at how stuff works 671 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us at mom Stuff Podcast, 672 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: on Twitter at or on Instagram at stuff I've Never 673 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: Told You Thinks. As always, who are producer Dylan Fagan 674 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: and Cathleen Quilliad And thanks to you for listening.