WEBVTT - Never Give Up with Elizabeth Smart 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.359 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast. 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.080 All right, well, we have a very special guest in studio. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.560 I love saying that in studio with us. Elizabeth Smart, 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.599 Thank you so much for coming on wind Down. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:17.680 Thanks for having me. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.400 We are so this is It's hard because I don't 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:22.800 want to say that. I'm so excited to talk to 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.360 you because obviously your story is is a tough one 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.560 and it's I can't imagine how hard it is for you. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.760 But thank you for doing what you do because it's 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.559 helping so many people. So for that, I'm excited for 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:38.600 that conversation. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:40.159 Thank you. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.400 As you were walking in, we were chatting and kind 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.040 of getting to know each other and I found out 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:48.680 that you also have a Scottish husband. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.360 So do I do? 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:55.320 Yeah? Aberdeen from Alveldeen. Yeah, it spent a year an 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:56.480 aveultin coat you. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.120 He used to be the assistant coach in Aberdeen. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:00.400 Oh. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.640 When I told my husband that I was coming to 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.920 speak with Jana, he looked her up and then he's like, oh, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.679 she's married to a footballer. 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.160 Oh he was a coach. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.880 Oh he he's an Aberdeen And I was like and 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:15.920 he's like, oh he spells his middle or he spells 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:16.559 his name the same. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:17.720 Way I spell my middle name. 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.800 Yeah, you kind of sound Scottish as you're talking. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.640 Well, yes, Scottish is good. Jana's is Russian. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.479 Mine just turns Jamaican and it's a bitch. I don't 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.600 know what happens to me. Wait, do you have a 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.759 Scottish Can you impersonate your husband? 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.880 I feel like I do, Okay, but if you were here, 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.920 he'd be like, stop embarrassing yourself, Like that's so bad. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:39.640 Just stop. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.119 What is like a phrase he usually says, and try 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:43.279 it in Scottish. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:50.520 Don't like, Yeah, that's great, that's so good, that's great. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.040 How long have you been married? 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:54.320 Thirteen years? 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.440 Okay, I think there's hope for you, Kraamer. I just 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.680 like he said, I sound Russian. The only thing I 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.000 can say, which he says all the time, is. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:08.120 She thinks she can say it still. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:09.959 I want to be supportive, but I got to tell you, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.120 I'm not sure what that was. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.720 I and I love you. You do a lot of things 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:15.200 really well. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.359 I know, I just can't, I know, really can't. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.800 Well that's an Aberdeen fun Yeah? 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.240 Is I mean Manchester United? More? 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:29.919 But when Aberdeen plays. He always has his Aberdeen kid. Yeah, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.400 I mean I did not grow up playing soccer. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:39.200 I don't football. You mean, well, yes, I don't play it. 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:40.120 I didn't watch it. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.840 But now now he's like, Elizabeth, do you understand what 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:44.640 off sides is known? 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:45.600 Like R offside is? 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.079 I was like no, same still No, I'm a year 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.679 into our marriage and were I still have no idea. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.119 I didn't know anything about soccer when I met him, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.440 like nothing football. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.400 Sorry, let's talk about the pace of your husband's. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.359 A life pace they have a problem with my laid back? 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.520 Is that also your husband? 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.120 He just doesn't answer until he's ready. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.280 Like I can speak to him all day and he'll 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.560 just like sit there. I don't even know if he's 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.720 listening until he's ready to answer. So it might be 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.920 I feel thirty seconds later, might be like ten minutes 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:22.359 and I'm like, have you been listening? 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:28.280 He's like, what, Dana, how do you feel about that sentence? 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.119 I just feel seen as well? 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:31.119 Good? 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.200 No, But I will say though, and I don't know 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.520 if you've was he your first serious relationship? 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:41.640 Your husband? I mean I dated a lot, sure, but sure? 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.480 Yeah? And you guys have two kids, three kids, three kids, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:47.720 what are the ages? 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:48.360 Nine? 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.560 Seven and my youngest just turned six. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.720 I feel like they're amazing men. That's one thing I've 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.440 dated as well of plenty of times, and he was. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.760 There's such just something about am I on one today, Kristin. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.200 Really I just couldn't love you Moore. I think I 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.440 also just miss you. So every word you're saying, I'm 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.080 like hanging on because I just feel like I haven't 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.320 seen you, but you really are gragging me up. There 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.240 is something about Scottish men though. They just do it 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.119 better in a lot of ways. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.240 Wow, I'm just saying. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.599 It everything and love and romance and one thing I 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.400 can say, and maybe this is just observing, because we 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.040 went over for the wedding and we got to. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.680 Be like we were all just in Scotland in July. 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.040 We got married there, well, congratulations, thank you so much. 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.840 It was really fun to be like submerged, you know, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.440 and we all stayed in a state together, like a 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.320 little castle together. So it was like a little bit 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:49.680 like Real World meets Real Housewives of Scotland. I don't know, 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.520 but we had a really really good time. One thing 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.880 I observed about Scottish men is the certainty that they 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.200 have and I don't know if they firmly believe what 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.039 they're saying, but it feels like it. So with every 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.159 decision made, I feel like, like, even when Alan gets 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:05.960 in the room, I feel like I fix my posture, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.200 like I'm like, okay, we're like he's They're just very 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.440 like assertive but also so certain. Does that feel fair? 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.600 I think it's fair to say they don't do anything halfway? 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:16.400 Yees. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.000 And then for me, not that I think I do 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.880 things halfway, but now being married to someone, I feel 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.080 like he holds me to like an even higher expectation 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:27.640 and be like, well, did you ask this? Did you 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.880 ask that Elizabeth? Did you get any of the details whatsoever? 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.880 And I'm like, I thought I did, but apparently not. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.320 Is there a little inflexibility? This question goes to just 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:47.440 the ladies, they're very Yeah, feels that way, strong suggestions. Wow, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.520 that was delicately right, But we'll go away from that, bab. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.839 I don't want you to feel Scottish Spousal Support Group. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:59.599 Yes, yeah, so I'm going to read a piece of 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.000 this and then The abduction of Elizabeth Smart was one 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.599 of the most followed child abduction cases of our time. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.520 Elizabeth was abducted on June fifth, two thousand and two. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.880 Her captors controlled her by threatening to kill her and 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.400 her family if she tried to escape. For those that 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.479 do not know your story, I know it very very clear, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.839 very I mean I just remember following it on the news. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.880 I mean it was everywhere. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.799 But for those that are listening that don't know your story, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.039 could you tell us from your words? 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.400 Sure? Yeah. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.760 So born and raised in Utah, Salt Lake City, and 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:45.480 like genuinely never thought anything interesting, out of ordinary crazy 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.680 could happen to us. I mean I did not hear 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.480 people's talk about crime. I didn't hear people talk about abuse. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.960 I didn't hear people talk about bad things that happened 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.200 in our neighborhood where I grew up. I mean, the 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.960 worst thing that I remember hearing people talk about girl 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:05.159 up was I mean, if someone elderly was sick and died, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.600 that kind of felt like that was like the worst thing. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.080 So it felt like a very safe neighborhood. It felt 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.320 like a very nice neighborhood. It just didn't feel like 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.880 anything could happen, And I mean, why why would it? 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.360 As far as I could tell my family didn't have 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.720 enemies or I don't know. I don't think there was 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.320 anyone that like actively hated us that I knew of anyway. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.720 So it was just something that I never even contemplated happening. Plus, like, 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.960 I'm just not I'm just not like a rebellious person. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:44.200 I'm not like a I'm pretty, I'm pretty mild. Like 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.920 I'm kind of a boying person truthfully. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:53.080 And so I just when people would talk about oh, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:58.000 stranger danger or you know, don't take don't take candy 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.440 from people you don't know, or don't walk by yourself 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.880 at night, don't like, don't do this, don't do that, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:09.240 those cautions never bothered me because I would have never 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.160 done those things anyway. And I just never thought I 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.760 would be in that position myself. So it was right 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.240 before I was about to graduate from junior High. Very 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.480 excited to graduate from junior High. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.440 I was quite an awkward person growing up, and. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.040 I just was looking forward to high school. And I 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.560 remember going to bed that night and I shared I 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:33.920 didn't just. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.960 Share a fourteen yes, yeah, I was fourteen. I didn't 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:37.480 just share a room. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.240 I shared a bed with my younger sister, who was 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.000 about five years younger than I am, and I mean 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.200 it was a good night, it was a good day, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.880 like nothing bad had happened. And the next thing I 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.480 remember was hearing a man's voice in my bedroom, which 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.360 I didn't immediately respond to, because how could that, How 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.760 could that be real? I mean, my room was on 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.840 the top floor of our house, wasn't like on the 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.880 ground level. Why would a man be in my room 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.920 and weren't allowed in my room like that just couldn't happen. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.280 So I didn't immediately respond because I thought it just 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.440 it had to be a dream or a nightmare or 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.600 I don't know something. So I just laid there and 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.480 then I heard the voice again, saying the same words again, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.520 saying I have a knife at your neck. Don't make 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.920 a sound, get up and come with me. And it 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.480 was that second time that he said that that I 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.440 actually felt a knife lying across my neck and I 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.520 could feel his hand on my arm try and pull 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.000 me out of bed, And I remember opening my eyes 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.080 and sure enough there was this man, this strange man, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.680 standing in my room timeing to go with him, And like, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.280 of everything that you prepared for in life, nobody talks about, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.000 what do you do if someone breaks into your home 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.840 and kidnaps you out of bed. I mean, all the 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.760 safety education you're given is like if you're out by yourself, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.600 if you're out at night, if you like, nobody talks 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.320 about what do you do if someone breaks into your 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.680 home or crawls into your bed, Like what do you 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.600 do if your own space is violated? And since I 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.240 didn't have the education, I didn't feel like there's anything 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.880 I could do, so I did as I was told. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.120 I mean, I never had anyone hold a knife to 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.280 my neck before, Like what was I supposed to do? 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.200 I remember he led me out through my house. He 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.640 led me up into the mountains behind my home, which 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.559 really like it's very difficult to get there. I mean 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.439 I have since hiked back there a number of times. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.720 And one of the most memorable times that I hiked 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.000 back was after I released my book, My Story About 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.840 I guess it's probably been about I don't know, ten 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:49.080 tenish years ago maybe, and I did this big sit 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.160 down interview with Meredith Vieira, and she wanted to hike. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:54.720 Back to where I was held captive. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.760 And I was like, yeah, that's fine, and the camera 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.679 crew was like Okay, yeah, like, how far do you 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.280 think is I was like, oh, it's probably like three 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:05.440 and a half miles, like not super far. I was like, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.920 but just so you know, like it's a pretty difficult hike. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:09.520 And they're like, oh, well, you know, I. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.160 Just ran a marathon like a couple of weeks ago. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.240 I think I can handle like three and a half 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.120 miles or you know, like less than four miles. I 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.680 think I can handle that. I'm like, okay, Like, but 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.440 I've warned you anyway. We start hiking up to get there, 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.280 and I mean you're like, sure, you start on a 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.680 nice trail, but then you turn off to a place 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.120 where there is no trail and you're fighting through brush 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.839 and then there's a stream that you're fighting up through 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.920 and there's like poison ivy and there's always felt like 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.560 there was so many like wasps and I don't know, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.240 bugs that can sting, right, And then you have to 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.160 go what felt like almost straight up the mountainside and 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.360 it's a very steep climb, and I mean it was 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.520 just loose kind of dirt, loose gravel, so it was 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.000 not it was not solid footing at all. 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:57.839 And I remember at one point. 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.240 The cameraman just sat down and said I'm done, can't 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.079 go any farther. And I was like, I told you, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:09.480 I told you not not that I enjoy other people's pain, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.040 I don't, but there was a moment that I felt 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.720 a little bit vindicated. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:21.120 Yet twenty six point two. Yeah, marathon runner, Yeah that's right, Baron, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:21.720 thank you. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.840 Anyway, So it was very difficult to get back to 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.000 and you would never have just stumbled across it, would 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:29.120 never have just found it. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.600 I mean it was it was hard. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.520 Anyway, he took me back there, where as soon as 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.600 he got me back there, he he claimed that I 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.679 was now his wife, and I was raped and then 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.720 I was chained up. And for the next nine months, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.920 I mean he and he had he had his actual 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:58.480 wife there waiting for him, and she helped him. So 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.400 she knew that you were she knew. Yeah, yeah, she knew. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.680 She was like complicit in everything. And yeah, the next 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.120 nine months, I mean, they had found that the best 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:14.800 way to manipulate and control people was through religion. And 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.760 I think if you step back and you look at 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.679 that time period even more. I mean I was kidnapped 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.000 in June of two thousand and two, but that prior 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.839 September of two thousand and one was when nine to 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.880 eleven happened, when the Twin Towers came down. And yes, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.160 I was a teenager, but so maybe I didn't see 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.280 the full perspective of everything. But even in my teenage 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.800 like vision of the world, it seemed like everyone was 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.560 just like extra sensitive about any form of extremism. I mean, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:49.800 I remember talk of a mosque in Salt Lake City, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.439 or and it was whether it should be torn down 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.400 or just there was some I can't remember all the details, 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.480 but I just remember it was like controversial and just 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.120 everyone kind of felt scared, and any form of extremism, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:08.240 especially around religion, was scary to people. And I think 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.480 that my captors recognized that, and I think they used 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.760 that as a tool to get away with everything that 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:18.200 they wanted. And it had been so effective in getting 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.680 people to stay away from them, or giving them what 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:26.080 they wanted, or just manipulating the people around them, that 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:28.320 they just continued on with that. 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.720 I mean, that's how he justified kidnapping me. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.840 That's how he justified all of the abuse, the rape, 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.320 the sexual violence that happened to me during my captivity. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.080 I mean, that's how they justified everything. That's how they 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.520 justified trying to kidnap more young girls. I mean, thank goodness, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:51.160 they were never successful, but they did try. During my captivity, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.760 they took me out of Utah to southern California, San Diego, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:15:00.280 right outside of San Diego, yeah, Lakeside, and we were 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.200 for about four and a half months. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.040 How did you they travel you? Just by car by. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.960 So greyhound bus took us there. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.160 And were they like holding onto you tight? 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:26.880 What was they like? 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:28.960 Would they say like if you scream or you run, 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:30.840 I will yes, yeah. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.000 I mean for all of the time leading up to 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:40.760 my leading up to going to California, my captors they 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.480 I mean, they threatened me constantly. It was always like, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.360 if you don't do what we tell you to, will 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.640 kill you. If we don't kill you, we'll kill your family. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:50.320 They would. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.520 When when Brian Mitchell would go down into Salt Lake, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.640 he would bring back newspaper articles or missing flyers about 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:01.960 the surch that was being put on for me, and 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.480 he would talk about how there were missing posters and 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.560 all of the windows, and how every magazine and newspaper 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.000 article had my face in it, and just how all 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.280 of Salt Lake City was searching for me, but how 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.400 nobody would ever be able to find me because he 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.240 had me, And honestly, it seemed like it was true. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.920 I mean, I remember times very early on that I 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.560 actually heard someone yelling my name. It was far away, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.600 it wasn't like it was close. It was very faint 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.120 and very distant, but I heard someone yelling my name. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.480 And then I remember another time, I mean, helicopter's flying 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.000 just what felt like right over us, so much so 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:38.960 that the trees around us were shaking, and that the 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.680 tent he had me hidden it was shaking, but nobody 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:47.360 found us. I mean, I remember airplanes flying low overhead, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.200 like repeatedly searching and searching and searching, and nobody found me. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.320 So I mean, it did feel like it did feel 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.840 like he was right. It felt like he was invincible. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.000 And the few times that I tried to to escape, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.880 that I tried to run away or try to stand 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.639 up for myself or try to talk back, I was 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.560 always punished for it. I was always like I was 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.600 always in trouble. So it just got to a point 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.879 where I was like, I just need to stay alive. 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.440 I just need to do whatever I can to stay alive. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.280 It does not matter what it is. And so it 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.159 eventually was staying quiet. It was keeping my mouth shut. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.520 It was doing what they told me to do. And 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.159 even if that meant going out into public and just 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.320 keeping my mouth shut, that meant that in my mind, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.600 that meant that I would stay alive. That meant that 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.680 I needed to do what they told me to do, 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.200 and I would survive another day. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.000 And so I did. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.959 And I think unless you're in a situation where you 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.520 feel like your safety, your well being, your life is 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.399 really on the line, I think it's really difficult for 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.800 other people to understand. I mean, I think even I 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.679 feel like there's a lot of commonality actually between like 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:05.200 victims of sexual assault like my story, or abduction or 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.240 great victims and victims of domestic violence, even because from 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.800 the outside you can't always understand, well, why didn't you yell, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:14.560 Why didn't you scream? 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:15.280 Why didn't you run? 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.040 I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.840 been questioned like that. But then I've spoken and worked 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.879 with so many other victims who have been in like 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:27.120 domestically abusive marriages, and they talk about how, no, it's 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.040 not just easy, like it looks like I have a 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.800 card or a credit card. It looks like I have 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:32.000 a phone, looks like I have a car. It looks 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.640 like I can just like jump in and drive out. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:34.400 But it's never that. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.040 Straightforward, or you have kids and you have to stay. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.720 Exactly, There's always there's always something more and or like 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:47.560 you've just been systematically decimated so that you feel like 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.000 you don't have any value, you don't have any worth. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.359 Why would anyone believe you over for me? In my case, 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.080 my captors, I mean they were claiming they were servants 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.919 of God, and they were adults. I was a teenager. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.080 Why would anyone believe adult a teenager over adults. Why 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:09.639 would anyone believe someone who's potentially more of a liar 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.800 a teenager versus someone claiming to do the work of 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.399 God adults. I mean, they just seemed like there was 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.400 such an imbalance of power and belief. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:26.320 Why would anybody believe me and risk their safety for me? 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.480 Were you ever in your brain working out like how 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.719 you can escape? Or was it just as active like 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.840 I'm going to stay alive every day and this is 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:35.479 what I have to do. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.359 I mean, early on, I always thought about how I 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.480 could escape. I remember I remember. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.879 The second he got me into this camp, this hitting 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.440 camp site, just thinking as soon as I get a chance, 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:47.920 I'm going to run away. I mean, the whole time 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.200 he took me up into the mountains, I remember thinking, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.760 I'm looking for my chance. I'm looking for my opportunity, 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.200 Like where can I run? But I mean a lot 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.119 of what we were hiking through. I mean it was 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.200 like a very steep, narrow ravine and we were coming 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:02.880 our way up the bottom. I mean, if I ran, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.600 and he had me in front of him, so I mean, 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:14.240 uphill was my only option. And I mean like no matter, yeah, 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.760 if you want to admit it or deny it. But 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.439 like men and women are different. I mean ironically now 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.080 I run marathons, and I trained for marathons. But no 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.800 matter how much I run, no matter how long I run, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.760 no matter how hard I tried to like improve my speed, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.520 like my husband will still beat me. And he doesn't train, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.480 he doesn't do anything well. He plays football once a week, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.400 but like it's just faster, Like there's nothing I can 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:49.040 change about that. And so as he was taking me 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.000 up into the mountains, like even though I was looking 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.480 for a chance, and I was actually honestly so worried 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.320 that I had missed my chance. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.080 I was so worried that like, maybe there was. 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.920 An opportunity to escape, to run away, and I had 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.679 missed it, or I was too scared to take it. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.840 I remember being so scared of that thought that night. Now, 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.600