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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, we have a very special guest in studio.

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Speaker 2: I love saying that in studio with us. Elizabeth Smart,

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on wind Down.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We are so this is It's hard because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to say that. I'm so excited to talk to

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Speaker 2: you because obviously your story is is a tough one

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Speaker 2: and it's I can't imagine how hard it is for you.

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Speaker 2: But thank you for doing what you do because it's

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Speaker 2: helping so many people. So for that, I'm excited for

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Speaker 2: that conversation.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: As you were walking in, we were chatting and kind

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Speaker 2: of getting to know each other and I found out

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Speaker 2: that you also have a Scottish husband.

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Speaker 4: So do I do?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Aberdeen from Alveldeen. Yeah, it spent a year an

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Speaker 5: aveultin coat you.

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Speaker 2: He used to be the assistant coach in Aberdeen.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 1: When I told my husband that I was coming to

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Speaker 1: speak with Jana, he looked her up and then he's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's married to a footballer.

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Speaker 3: Oh he was a coach.

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Speaker 1: Oh he he's an Aberdeen And I was like and

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh he spells his middle or he spells

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Speaker 1: his name the same.

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Speaker 3: Way I spell my middle name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you kind of sound Scottish as you're talking.

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Speaker 5: Well, yes, Scottish is good. Jana's is Russian.

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Speaker 4: Mine just turns Jamaican and it's a bitch. I don't

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Speaker 4: know what happens to me. Wait, do you have a

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Speaker 4: Scottish Can you impersonate your husband?

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Speaker 1: I feel like I do, Okay, but if you were here,

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Speaker 1: he'd be like, stop embarrassing yourself, Like that's so bad.

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Speaker 3: Just stop.

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Speaker 2: What is like a phrase he usually says, and try

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Speaker 2: it in Scottish.

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Speaker 1: Don't like, Yeah, that's great, that's so good, that's great.

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Speaker 4: How long have you been married?

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Speaker 3: Thirteen years?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think there's hope for you, Kraamer. I just

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Speaker 2: like he said, I sound Russian. The only thing I

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Speaker 2: can say, which he says all the time, is.

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Speaker 3: She thinks she can say it still.

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Speaker 4: I want to be supportive, but I got to tell you,

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure what that was.

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Speaker 3: I and I love you. You do a lot of things

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Speaker 3: really well.

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Speaker 2: I know, I just can't, I know, really can't.

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Speaker 5: Well that's an Aberdeen fun Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Is I mean Manchester United? More?

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Speaker 1: But when Aberdeen plays. He always has his Aberdeen kid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I did not grow up playing soccer.

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Speaker 3: I don't football. You mean, well, yes, I don't play it.

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Speaker 3: I didn't watch it.

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Speaker 1: But now now he's like, Elizabeth, do you understand what

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Speaker 1: off sides is known?

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Speaker 3: Like R offside is?

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Speaker 4: I was like no, same still No, I'm a year

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Speaker 4: into our marriage and were I still have no idea.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about soccer when I met him,

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Speaker 4: like nothing football.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, let's talk about the pace of your husband's.

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Speaker 5: A life pace they have a problem with my laid back?

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Speaker 2: Is that also your husband?

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Speaker 3: He just doesn't answer until he's ready.

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Speaker 1: Like I can speak to him all day and he'll

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Speaker 1: just like sit there. I don't even know if he's

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Speaker 1: listening until he's ready to answer. So it might be

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Speaker 1: I feel thirty seconds later, might be like ten minutes

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, have you been listening?

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Speaker 4: He's like, what, Dana, how do you feel about that sentence?

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Speaker 2: I just feel seen as well?

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Speaker 4: Good?

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Speaker 2: No, But I will say though, and I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you've was he your first serious relationship?

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Speaker 3: Your husband? I mean I dated a lot, sure, but sure?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And you guys have two kids, three kids, three kids,

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Speaker 2: what are the ages?

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Speaker 4: Nine?

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Speaker 3: Seven and my youngest just turned six.

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Speaker 2: I feel like they're amazing men. That's one thing I've

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Speaker 2: dated as well of plenty of times, and he was.

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Speaker 4: There's such just something about am I on one today, Kristin.

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Speaker 4: Really I just couldn't love you Moore. I think I

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Speaker 4: also just miss you. So every word you're saying, I'm

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Speaker 4: like hanging on because I just feel like I haven't

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Speaker 4: seen you, but you really are gragging me up. There

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Speaker 4: is something about Scottish men though. They just do it

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Speaker 4: better in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I'm just saying.

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Speaker 4: It everything and love and romance and one thing I

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Speaker 4: can say, and maybe this is just observing, because we

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Speaker 4: went over for the wedding and we got to.

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Speaker 2: Be like we were all just in Scotland in July.

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Speaker 2: We got married there, well, congratulations, thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: It was really fun to be like submerged, you know,

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Speaker 4: and we all stayed in a state together, like a

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Speaker 4: little castle together. So it was like a little bit

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Speaker 4: like Real World meets Real Housewives of Scotland. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but we had a really really good time. One thing

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Speaker 4: I observed about Scottish men is the certainty that they

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Speaker 4: have and I don't know if they firmly believe what

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Speaker 4: they're saying, but it feels like it. So with every

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Speaker 4: decision made, I feel like, like, even when Alan gets

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Speaker 4: in the room, I feel like I fix my posture,

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Speaker 4: like I'm like, okay, we're like he's They're just very

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Speaker 4: like assertive but also so certain. Does that feel fair?

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Speaker 4: I think it's fair to say they don't do anything halfway?

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Speaker 2: Yees.

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Speaker 1: And then for me, not that I think I do

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Speaker 1: things halfway, but now being married to someone, I feel

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Speaker 1: like he holds me to like an even higher expectation

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Speaker 1: and be like, well, did you ask this? Did you

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Speaker 1: ask that Elizabeth? Did you get any of the details whatsoever?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I thought I did, but apparently not.

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Speaker 4: Is there a little inflexibility? This question goes to just

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Speaker 4: the ladies, they're very Yeah, feels that way, strong suggestions. Wow,

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Speaker 4: that was delicately right, But we'll go away from that, bab.

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Speaker 4: I don't want you to feel Scottish Spousal Support Group.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so I'm going to read a piece of

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Speaker 2: this and then The abduction of Elizabeth Smart was one

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Speaker 2: of the most followed child abduction cases of our time.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth was abducted on June fifth, two thousand and two.

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Speaker 2: Her captors controlled her by threatening to kill her and

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Speaker 2: her family if she tried to escape. For those that

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Speaker 2: do not know your story, I know it very very clear,

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Speaker 2: very I mean I just remember following it on the news.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was everywhere.

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Speaker 4: But for those that are listening that don't know your story,

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Speaker 4: could you tell us from your words?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So born and raised in Utah, Salt Lake City, and

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Speaker 1: like genuinely never thought anything interesting, out of ordinary crazy

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Speaker 1: could happen to us. I mean I did not hear

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Speaker 1: people's talk about crime. I didn't hear people talk about abuse.

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Speaker 1: I didn't hear people talk about bad things that happened

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Speaker 1: in our neighborhood where I grew up. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: worst thing that I remember hearing people talk about girl

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Speaker 1: up was I mean, if someone elderly was sick and died,

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Speaker 1: that kind of felt like that was like the worst thing.

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Speaker 1: So it felt like a very safe neighborhood. It felt

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Speaker 1: like a very nice neighborhood. It just didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: anything could happen, And I mean, why why would it?

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Speaker 1: As far as I could tell my family didn't have

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Speaker 1: enemies or I don't know. I don't think there was

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Speaker 1: anyone that like actively hated us that I knew of anyway.

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Speaker 1: So it was just something that I never even contemplated happening. Plus, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not I'm just not like a rebellious person.

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Speaker 3: I'm not like a I'm pretty, I'm pretty mild. Like

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of a boying person truthfully.

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Speaker 1: And so I just when people would talk about oh,

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Speaker 1: stranger danger or you know, don't take don't take candy

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Speaker 1: from people you don't know, or don't walk by yourself

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Speaker 1: at night, don't like, don't do this, don't do that,

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Speaker 1: those cautions never bothered me because I would have never

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Speaker 1: done those things anyway. And I just never thought I

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Speaker 1: would be in that position myself. So it was right

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Speaker 1: before I was about to graduate from junior High. Very

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Speaker 1: excited to graduate from junior High.

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Speaker 3: I was quite an awkward person growing up, and.

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Speaker 1: I just was looking forward to high school. And I

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Speaker 1: remember going to bed that night and I shared I

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Speaker 1: didn't just.

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Speaker 3: Share a fourteen yes, yeah, I was fourteen. I didn't

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Speaker 3: just share a room.

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Speaker 1: I shared a bed with my younger sister, who was

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Speaker 1: about five years younger than I am, and I mean

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Speaker 1: it was a good night, it was a good day,

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Speaker 1: like nothing bad had happened. And the next thing I

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Speaker 1: remember was hearing a man's voice in my bedroom, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't immediately respond to, because how could that, How

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Speaker 1: could that be real? I mean, my room was on

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Speaker 1: the top floor of our house, wasn't like on the

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Speaker 1: ground level. Why would a man be in my room

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Speaker 1: and weren't allowed in my room like that just couldn't happen.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't immediately respond because I thought it just

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Speaker 1: it had to be a dream or a nightmare or

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Speaker 1: I don't know something. So I just laid there and

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Speaker 1: then I heard the voice again, saying the same words again,

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Speaker 1: saying I have a knife at your neck. Don't make

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Speaker 1: a sound, get up and come with me. And it

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Speaker 1: was that second time that he said that that I

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Speaker 1: actually felt a knife lying across my neck and I

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Speaker 1: could feel his hand on my arm try and pull

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Speaker 1: me out of bed, And I remember opening my eyes

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Speaker 1: and sure enough there was this man, this strange man,

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Speaker 1: standing in my room timeing to go with him, And like,

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Speaker 1: of everything that you prepared for in life, nobody talks about,

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Speaker 1: what do you do if someone breaks into your home

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Speaker 1: and kidnaps you out of bed. I mean, all the

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Speaker 1: safety education you're given is like if you're out by yourself,

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Speaker 1: if you're out at night, if you like, nobody talks

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Speaker 1: about what do you do if someone breaks into your

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Speaker 1: home or crawls into your bed, Like what do you

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Speaker 1: do if your own space is violated? And since I

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Speaker 1: didn't have the education, I didn't feel like there's anything

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Speaker 1: I could do, so I did as I was told.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I never had anyone hold a knife to

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Speaker 1: my neck before, Like what was I supposed to do?

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Speaker 1: I remember he led me out through my house. He

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Speaker 1: led me up into the mountains behind my home, which

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Speaker 1: really like it's very difficult to get there. I mean

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Speaker 1: I have since hiked back there a number of times.

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Speaker 1: And one of the most memorable times that I hiked

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Speaker 1: back was after I released my book, My Story About

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Speaker 1: I guess it's probably been about I don't know, ten

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Speaker 1: tenish years ago maybe, and I did this big sit

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Speaker 1: down interview with Meredith Vieira, and she wanted to hike.

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Speaker 3: Back to where I was held captive.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, that's fine, and the camera

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Speaker 1: crew was like Okay, yeah, like, how far do you

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Speaker 1: think is I was like, oh, it's probably like three

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Speaker 1: and a half miles, like not super far. I was like,

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Speaker 1: but just so you know, like it's a pretty difficult hike.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, well, you know, I.

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Speaker 3: Just ran a marathon like a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: I think I can handle like three and a half

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Speaker 1: miles or you know, like less than four miles. I

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Speaker 1: think I can handle that. I'm like, okay, Like, but

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Speaker 1: I've warned you anyway. We start hiking up to get there,

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Speaker 1: and I mean you're like, sure, you start on a

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Speaker 1: nice trail, but then you turn off to a place

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Speaker 1: where there is no trail and you're fighting through brush

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Speaker 1: and then there's a stream that you're fighting up through

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Speaker 1: and there's like poison ivy and there's always felt like

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Speaker 1: there was so many like wasps and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: bugs that can sting, right, And then you have to

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Speaker 1: go what felt like almost straight up the mountainside and

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Speaker 1: it's a very steep climb, and I mean it was

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Speaker 1: just loose kind of dirt, loose gravel, so it was

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Speaker 1: not it was not solid footing at all.

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Speaker 3: And I remember at one point.

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Speaker 1: The cameraman just sat down and said I'm done, can't

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Speaker 1: go any farther. And I was like, I told you,

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Speaker 1: I told you not not that I enjoy other people's pain,

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Speaker 1: I don't, but there was a moment that I felt

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Speaker 1: a little bit vindicated.

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Speaker 4: Yet twenty six point two. Yeah, marathon runner, Yeah that's right, Baron,

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Speaker 4: thank you.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So it was very difficult to get back to

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Speaker 1: and you would never have just stumbled across it, would

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Speaker 1: never have just found it.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was it was hard.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, he took me back there, where as soon as

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Speaker 1: he got me back there, he he claimed that I

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Speaker 1: was now his wife, and I was raped and then

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Speaker 1: I was chained up. And for the next nine months,

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Speaker 1: I mean he and he had he had his actual

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Speaker 1: wife there waiting for him, and she helped him. So

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Speaker 1: she knew that you were she knew. Yeah, yeah, she knew.

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Speaker 1: She was like complicit in everything. And yeah, the next

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Speaker 1: nine months, I mean, they had found that the best

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Speaker 1: way to manipulate and control people was through religion. And

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Speaker 1: I think if you step back and you look at

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Speaker 1: that time period even more. I mean I was kidnapped

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Speaker 1: in June of two thousand and two, but that prior

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Speaker 1: September of two thousand and one was when nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven happened, when the Twin Towers came down. And yes,

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Speaker 1: I was a teenager, but so maybe I didn't see

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Speaker 1: the full perspective of everything. But even in my teenage

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Speaker 1: like vision of the world, it seemed like everyone was

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Speaker 1: just like extra sensitive about any form of extremism. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I remember talk of a mosque in Salt Lake City,

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Speaker 1: or and it was whether it should be torn down

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Speaker 1: or just there was some I can't remember all the details,

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Speaker 1: but I just remember it was like controversial and just

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Speaker 1: everyone kind of felt scared, and any form of extremism,

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Speaker 1: especially around religion, was scary to people. And I think

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Speaker 1: that my captors recognized that, and I think they used

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Speaker 1: that as a tool to get away with everything that

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Speaker 1: they wanted. And it had been so effective in getting

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Speaker 1: people to stay away from them, or giving them what

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Speaker 1: they wanted, or just manipulating the people around them, that

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Speaker 1: they just continued on with that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's how he justified kidnapping me.

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Speaker 1: That's how he justified all of the abuse, the rape,

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Speaker 1: the sexual violence that happened to me during my captivity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's how they justified everything. That's how they

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Speaker 1: justified trying to kidnap more young girls. I mean, thank goodness,

283
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Speaker 1: they were never successful, but they did try. During my captivity,

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Speaker 1: they took me out of Utah to southern California, San Diego,

285
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Speaker 1: right outside of San Diego, yeah, Lakeside, and we were

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Speaker 1: for about four and a half months.

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Speaker 4: How did you they travel you? Just by car by.

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Speaker 3: So greyhound bus took us there.

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Speaker 4: And were they like holding onto you tight?

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Speaker 2: What was they like?

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Speaker 4: Would they say like if you scream or you run,

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Speaker 4: I will yes, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean for all of the time leading up to

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Speaker 1: my leading up to going to California, my captors they

295
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Speaker 1: I mean, they threatened me constantly. It was always like,

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Speaker 1: if you don't do what we tell you to, will

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Speaker 1: kill you. If we don't kill you, we'll kill your family.

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Speaker 3: They would.

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Speaker 1: When when Brian Mitchell would go down into Salt Lake,

300
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Speaker 1: he would bring back newspaper articles or missing flyers about

301
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Speaker 1: the surch that was being put on for me, and

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00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 1: he would talk about how there were missing posters and

303
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: all of the windows, and how every magazine and newspaper

304
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Speaker 1: article had my face in it, and just how all

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Speaker 1: of Salt Lake City was searching for me, but how

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Speaker 1: nobody would ever be able to find me because he

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Speaker 1: had me, And honestly, it seemed like it was true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember times very early on that I

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Speaker 1: actually heard someone yelling my name. It was far away,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like it was close. It was very faint

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Speaker 1: and very distant, but I heard someone yelling my name.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember another time, I mean, helicopter's flying

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Speaker 1: just what felt like right over us, so much so

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Speaker 1: that the trees around us were shaking, and that the

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00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 1: tent he had me hidden it was shaking, but nobody

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Speaker 1: found us. I mean, I remember airplanes flying low overhead,

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Speaker 1: like repeatedly searching and searching and searching, and nobody found me.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, it did feel like it did feel

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Speaker 3: like he was right. It felt like he was invincible.

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Speaker 1: And the few times that I tried to to escape,

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Speaker 1: that I tried to run away or try to stand

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Speaker 1: up for myself or try to talk back, I was

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Speaker 1: always punished for it. I was always like I was

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Speaker 1: always in trouble. So it just got to a point

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Speaker 1: where I was like, I just need to stay alive.

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Speaker 1: I just need to do whatever I can to stay alive.

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Speaker 1: It does not matter what it is. And so it

328
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,159
Speaker 1: eventually was staying quiet. It was keeping my mouth shut.

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Speaker 1: It was doing what they told me to do. And

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Speaker 1: even if that meant going out into public and just

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Speaker 1: keeping my mouth shut, that meant that in my mind,

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Speaker 1: that meant that I would stay alive. That meant that

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Speaker 1: I needed to do what they told me to do,

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Speaker 1: and I would survive another day.

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Speaker 3: And so I did.

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Speaker 1: And I think unless you're in a situation where you

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Speaker 1: feel like your safety, your well being, your life is

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Speaker 1: really on the line, I think it's really difficult for

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Speaker 1: other people to understand. I mean, I think even I

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00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,679
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of commonality actually between like

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00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault like my story, or abduction or

342
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 1: great victims and victims of domestic violence, even because from

343
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Speaker 1: the outside you can't always understand, well, why didn't you yell,

344
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Speaker 1: Why didn't you scream?

345
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 3: Why didn't you run?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've

347
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 1: been questioned like that. But then I've spoken and worked

348
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Speaker 1: with so many other victims who have been in like

349
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Speaker 1: domestically abusive marriages, and they talk about how, no, it's

350
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Speaker 1: not just easy, like it looks like I have a

351
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Speaker 1: card or a credit card. It looks like I have

352
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Speaker 1: a phone, looks like I have a car. It looks

353
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Speaker 1: like I can just like jump in and drive out.

354
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Speaker 1: But it's never that.

355
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Speaker 4: Straightforward, or you have kids and you have to stay.

356
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Speaker 1: Exactly, There's always there's always something more and or like

357
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Speaker 1: you've just been systematically decimated so that you feel like

358
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Speaker 1: you don't have any value, you don't have any worth.

359
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,359
Speaker 1: Why would anyone believe you over for me? In my case,

360
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: my captors, I mean they were claiming they were servants

361
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Speaker 1: of God, and they were adults. I was a teenager.

362
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: Why would anyone believe adult a teenager over adults. Why

363
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Speaker 1: would anyone believe someone who's potentially more of a liar

364
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Speaker 1: a teenager versus someone claiming to do the work of

365
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Speaker 1: God adults. I mean, they just seemed like there was

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Speaker 1: such an imbalance of power and belief.

367
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Speaker 3: Why would anybody believe me and risk their safety for me?

368
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 2: Were you ever in your brain working out like how

369
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,719
Speaker 2: you can escape? Or was it just as active like

370
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Speaker 2: I'm going to stay alive every day and this is

371
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Speaker 2: what I have to do.

372
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 3: I mean, early on, I always thought about how I

373
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Speaker 3: could escape. I remember I remember.

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Speaker 1: The second he got me into this camp, this hitting

375
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,440
Speaker 1: camp site, just thinking as soon as I get a chance,

376
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Speaker 1: I'm going to run away. I mean, the whole time

377
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 1: he took me up into the mountains, I remember thinking,

378
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking for my chance. I'm looking for my opportunity,

379
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Speaker 1: Like where can I run? But I mean a lot

380
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 1: of what we were hiking through. I mean it was

381
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Speaker 1: like a very steep, narrow ravine and we were coming

382
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 1: our way up the bottom. I mean, if I ran,

383
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: and he had me in front of him, so I mean,

384
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 1: uphill was my only option. And I mean like no matter, yeah,

385
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: if you want to admit it or deny it. But

386
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,439
Speaker 1: like men and women are different. I mean ironically now

387
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: I run marathons, and I trained for marathons. But no

388
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: matter how much I run, no matter how long I run,

389
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: no matter how hard I tried to like improve my speed,

390
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: like my husband will still beat me. And he doesn't train,

391
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: he doesn't do anything well. He plays football once a week,

392
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: but like it's just faster, Like there's nothing I can

393
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 1: change about that. And so as he was taking me

394
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Speaker 1: up into the mountains, like even though I was looking

395
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Speaker 1: for a chance, and I was actually honestly so worried

396
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: that I had missed my chance.

397
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: I was so worried that like, maybe there was.

398
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 1: An opportunity to escape, to run away, and I had

399
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 1: missed it, or I was too scared to take it.

400
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: I remember being so scared of that thought that night. Now,

401
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: of course, looking back and like replaying that night, there

402
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: was never a chance. I mean he purposely stood right

403
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: behind me. He had his knife on me for almost

404
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: the whole night, and even when he put his knife away,

405
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: he was physically holding onto me. I mean, there really

406
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: was no opportunity for me to run away.

407
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: Did you recognize him when he like abducted you. Do

408
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 2: you remember being like I remember him seeing me at

409
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 2: the park, or seeing him at my school or something.

410
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: Was he targeting you?

411
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 3: Not immediately?

412
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: No, I did not recognize him immediately. It wasn't until

413
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: we were almost too this hidden campsite up in the

414
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: mountains that I realized who he was. And even then,

415
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it had been the last time that I

416
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: saw him. It was October November, like where at he well,

417
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: I had been out school close shopping with my mom,

418
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: like in September, right around the be end of the

419
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: school year. And actually it wasn't even just me, like

420
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: I had some of my brothers and my sister. We

421
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: were all out with my mom and we were looking

422
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: at clothes and he was in downtown Salt Lake and

423
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: he was begging for money. But instead of asking for

424
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: money from my mom, he asked her for work, and

425
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: she said she was like, I don't have any work,

426
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: but you can call my husband, and so she gave

427
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: him my dad's phone number, which he proceeded to call

428
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: my dad and asking, you know, do you have work?

429
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: And my dad had been building our family home. I

430
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: think he was building our family home my whole life.

431
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: But he was like, oh, like, I think I've got

432
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: some I don't remember if it was root work or

433
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: yard work, but he had some work. He's like, you

434
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: can come and help me outside the house, Like you're

435
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: not allowed inside, but you can come help me outside.

436
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 3: And so he came one time.

437
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: But all it was was him seeing me out school

438
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: close shopping with my mom just a few seconds, and

439
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: he had decided in that in those few seconds that

440
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna be the one who's going to kidnap.

441
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: That was the only reason why he called my dad

442
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: to find out where we lived, and I remember when

443
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 1: I realized who he was. I remember turning to him

444
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: and being like, well, like my parents tried to help you,

445
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: like you asked for work, Like they didn't invite you over,

446
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: they weren't just like handing it out you asked them,

447
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: Like they went out of their way to try to

448
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: help you, give you something that you asked for.

449
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 3: And this like your kidnapping me.

450
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: And just I mean, he didn't give straight answers. Initially,

451
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: he'd just say things like he'd just say things like, oh,

452
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: all will be made known in due time, like you

453
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: know this is like all will be made known.

454
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: I mean, he just was not speak straightforward.

455
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 4: Was there any point in this process that he revealed

456
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 4: a goal like I want money, I want your life,

457
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 4: I want you with me for the rest of my life,

458
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 4: like what was And obviously we can't rationalize with absolutely insanity,

459
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 4: But is there at any point that he's describing to

460
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 4: you like what he wanted out of this?

461
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: So the first night, yeah, he said, almost straight off

462
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: the bat, after we were outside of my home, I'm

463
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: taking you hostage. He he's yeah, he said he was

464
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: taking me hostage. He said he was taking me for ransom.

465
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't make those claims. But the closer

466
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: we got to this hiding spot and it took us.

467
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: I mean from the time it napped he kidnapped me

468
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: to the time we got this hiding spot like, it

469
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: wasn't quick.

470
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: I mean he took me.

471
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: It was probably between two and three am, I would

472
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: guess in the morning. By the time we got to

473
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: this hiding spot, the sun was up like it was bright,

474
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: you could see every thing. So I'm not even sure

475
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: exactly how long it took, but it was ours getting

476
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: back to this hiding place. And initially, as I said,

477
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: he mentioned, yes, I'm taking hostage, I'm taking you captive,

478
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm holding you for ransom. But the closer we got

479
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: to this hiding spot, the more what he said shifted

480
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: from hostage and ransom to like all be made known

481
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: to you. God's plan for you will be made like

482
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 1: he kind of shifted.

483
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: From said the wife comment to didn't he.

484
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: That wasn't until that wasn't until we were actually in location.

485
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: And that's actually after I first saw his wife. She

486
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: was waiting for us. As soon as we walked into

487
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: this camp, she was right there, and I remember thinking, oh,

488
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: there's a woman here, then nothing that bad can happen

489
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: to me, Like women wouldn't let anything else.

490
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: Truly terrible happened to me, So I was relieved.

491
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Actually, when I saw her, she brought me inside the tent,

492
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: she changed me, and then she got up and left,

493
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: and that's when he came in and he was like,

494
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: you're not my wife.

495
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 6: I read that he said they wanted seven vulgin braids. Yes,

496
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 6: did they tell you that?

497
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 5: Yes?

498
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 3: He tried.

499
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 5: Oh really so he tried to kidnap other people he tried.

500
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, he made two other attempts on different girls

501
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: while I was with him.

502
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 4: And is he having these conversations? Are they having these

503
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: conversations with you around you?

504
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: I mean they weren't. They didn't.

505
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: They didn't hide their conversations from me once they had me.

506
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: And kind of like what I was saying, they used

507
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: like religion, they used God to justify and manipulate everything.

508
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: So I mean, ultimately like he was a predator. Ultimately,

509
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: like he wanted to rape little girls, but to justify that,

510
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: he would be like, oh, this is such a heavy

511
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: burden God is placed upon me. He has not only

512
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: called me to you know, be his prophet and his servant,

513
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: but I am his davidic king in the last days,

514
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: and this is a burden I did not want to bear.

515
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: And I just I've God sent me a vision and

516
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: telling me I needed to take seven young brides, seven

517
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: young virgin brides, seven young girls to be my brides.

518
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: And they need to be young enough that they're still

519
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: that they're still malleable, that they can you know, they're

520
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: not so set in their ways and so set.

521
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 3: In the ways of the world that like I can.

522
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: He said it differently than this, but essentially groom them

523
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: into what I want them to be, that God can

524
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: work with them to be the help the helpmates I

525
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: need in life.

526
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 5: So it's almost like a coat, small version of a coat,

527
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 5: or wants it to be. Yeah.

528
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he was kidnapping instead of convincing.

529
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 4: So your sister is in bed with you the night

530
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 4: that you're taking I just I and she was the

531
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: one who helped sorry to interrupt, but to help identify him. Yes,

532
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 4: and also what I read, Okay, yeah, that's what I

533
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 4: was going to ask, is it. I know you credit

534
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 4: her quite a bit for getting even to the point

535
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 4: of rescue. Tell us her version of that night if

536
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 4: you can.

537
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. So she and I have talked about it since then,

538
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: and she talked about how she was actually awake when

539
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: I was kidnapped, Like she woke up, and I mean

540
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: she didn't just like pop her eyes wide open. She

541
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: was kind of just like keeping them closed and looking

542
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: through her lashes.

543
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: And she said, what she said is it.

544
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: Looked like he was like wearing light colored clothing. And

545
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: that was in like the newspaper reports. So when my

546
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: captor saw that in the newspaper reports, he'd say things like, oh,

547
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, God blinded her eyes because I mean he

548
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: was in like a dark stalking cap and like a

549
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: dark sweat gloat sweatshirt, dark sweatpants, dark gloves. And my

550
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: sister said it looked like he had on like a

551
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: white hat and he had a light color, and he'd

552
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: be like, oh God, in one sense he veiled her

553
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: eyes from the truth, but also in another like she

554
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: was seeing my heavenly aura like that kind of thing.

555
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: And so she talked about how she watched him, and

556
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: she watched him take me and she thought he had

557
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: a gun.

558
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: She didn't realize it was a knife.

559
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: She talked about how she like waited and waited and

560
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: waited because the doors on our house had an alarm

561
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: system on him, so when you open the door, the

562
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: beeping would go off. But I guess, I guess the

563
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: magnets that set the alarm off had fallen out of

564
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: the back kitchen door, and just none of us knew

565
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: about it, Like we just we just didn't know that

566
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: it was malfunctioning. So he'd taken me on the back

567
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: kitchen door. So but the door never alerted the alarm,

568
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: so the alarm never went off.

569
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 3: And so my sister she laid in bed and waited

570
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: and waited and waited.

571
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: And she said that she heard our grandfather clock go

572
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: off two times, but the grandfather clock is accurate anyway.

573
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: I think my brother's like got in and like smacked

574
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: the pendulama a bit too hard and it broke it.

575
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: So it just kind of went off randomly whenever it

576
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: felt like it, and said she heard it go off

577
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: a couple of times, and then she just decided she

578
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: just had to tell my parents. She had to get

579
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: into my parents' room and tell them she thought he

580
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: was still maybe in the house, but she felt like

581
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: she had to take the risks, so she's talked about

582
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: how she had this ratty old baby blanket and she

583
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: like wrapped it around her shoulders and like draped it

584
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: over her head and ran into my parents' room and

585
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: she first went to my dad's side of the bed,

586
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: but he was like in a pretty heavy sleep, so

587
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: he didn't wake up. So she walked around the bed

588
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: to my mom's side, and my mom woke it up

589
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: and she was like, what's wrong with my Catherine, Come

590
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: tell me what's happening. And my little sister was just like,

591
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: Elizabeth is gone, and my mom was like, I'm sure

592
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: she's not gone, Like I'm sure you just had a

593
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: bad dream. And Catherine was like, no, a man came

594
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: and took her. And my Mom's like, no, I'm sure

595
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: a man didn't come and take her. You know, she

596
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: probably just like moved into like one of your brother's rooms,

597
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: or like down into the kitchen on the sofa because

598
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm not a super cuddly person, like when

599
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: I sleep, I don't want to be touched, and my

600
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: sister is a very cuddly person, and she would just

601
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: like always cuddle right up next to me, but then

602
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: she sleeps really really hot and so she'll sweat in

603
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: her sleep, or at least she did as a child,

604
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: maybe not now.

605
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: I don't know how it slept next her in.

606
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: Years, but as a child, she'd like cud over up

607
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: next to me, and then she'd be like sweating in

608
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: her sleep, and like I would just get so hot,

609
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: and I'd keep moving over. But beds are only so big,

610
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't be that uncharacteristic for me to get

611
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: up and leave the bedroom my shirt with my sister

612
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: and like go into like one of my brother's rooms,

613
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: or go into the kitchen and sleep on the sofa.

614
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: And so my mom was like, oh, it's okay, Like

615
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: she's just in a different room, it's okay. By this time,

616
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: my dad woke up and they started going through my

617
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: brother's bedrooms. They came downstairs, and at the bottom of

618
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: our stairs, you could go left into like the formal

619
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: living room, or you could go right into the kitchen.

620
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: My dad went left, my mom went right. She just

621
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: like slammed on all the lights because in the background,

622
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: my little sister kept saying, you're not going to find her.

623
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: A man came and took her, and how old was

624
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: your sister? She was eight she was almost nine.

625
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: Wow.

626
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And.

627
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: So my mom said, how has since told me that

628
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: when she went to the kitchen turned the lights on,

629
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: she just saw how the window above the kitchen sink

630
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: had been forced open, the screen had been cut, and

631
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: at that point she just started screaming to my dad

632
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: to call the.

633
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 4: Police man and then for your father to find out

634
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 4: that it was someone that he hired too.

635
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: That must have been but I mean he didn't. It

636
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: wasn't even like an immediate thing. I mean everybody knows later. Yeah, yeah,

637
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: everybody thought it was this other guy that kidnapped me,

638
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: who actually ended up dying in jail, and everyone's like, oh,

639
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: Elizabeth is dead. She's gone, Like he's dead, she's gone,

640
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: will never find her, Like the secret of her disappearance

641
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: has been buried with this man. And it was my

642
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: little sister who yeah, who then came forward months and

643
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: months later being like I think I know who it

644
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: was And it wasn't. It wasn't this other man that

645
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: everyone thought it was. And so my dad called it

646
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: the police to tell them, and from my understanding is

647
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: they were quite dismissive of it, and my dad was like,

648
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: well we should at least get like, how let us

649
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: do like a police sketch, like have a sketch artist,

650
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: let us come down and describe him. And so they

651
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: had I think my two older brothers, no, my older

652
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: brother and then my brother, my younger brother, go down

653
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: to the police station with my dad, and each of

654
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: them worked with the sketch artists to try to like

655
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: recreate what they thought he looked like. But the police,

656
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: my dad, I feel like, has said it was more

657
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: they were just trying to humor my family as opposed

658
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: to taking it seriously. At least that's what it sounded like.

659
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: And the police were like, you know, we think we

660
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: still don't think it's this guy.

661
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: We think it's this other guy.

662
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: But my dad was good friends with John Walsh from

663
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: America's Most Wanted at the time, and so he called

664
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: up John and he was like, Mary Catherine thinks it's

665
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: this person.

666
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 3: John Walsh went.

667
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: On Larry King Live that night and he was the

668
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: one that put the police sketch, like he told Larry

669
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: King about it, and Larry King like showed the police

670
00:34:44,640 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 1: sketch to America.

671
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: And then how soon after were you captured?

672
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: Well, I guess so my understanding of what happened is

673
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: this please sketch wed out, And I mean he didn't

674
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: go by his name of Brian Mitchell. He went by

675
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: his name. He called himself a Manuel. And like Mary Catherine,

676
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: my sister had remembered that name and she.

677
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: Told my dad, I think it's a Manuel.

678
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: So then when this name, when this sketch was released,

679
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: the name Emmanuel was released with it as well. And

680
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: from what I understand, his Brian Mitchell's sister and her

681
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: husband had been watching the news, saw that he was

682
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: a person of interest, called up the phone and said, well,

683
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: actually his name is Brian Mitchell. He's been seen or

684
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: he's been seen like a couple of times late, not

685
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: in the recent months, but before winter. And he was

686
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: with his wife, Wanda Barzi, and there was a younger

687
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: woman there with them. But they were able to give

688
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: like photos was better than the police sketch that was

689
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: being shown. They were yeah, they sent in photos, and

690
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: that happened. I think I'm not sure exactly when Larry

691
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: King Live aired, but I think the photos appeared at

692
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: the beginning of March.

693
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 3: And I was rescued March twelfth.

694
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: And how was that? Did the like did the police

695
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: come in the house, like, what was that rescue?

696
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 5: Like?

697
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: So I had been able to convince my captors that

698
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: we should come back to Salt Lake. So we ended

699
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: up hitchhiking back to Salt Lake. And it was the

700
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: first day that we had made it back to Salt Lake,

701
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: and my captors were to rush to get me.

702
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: Up into the mountains. They wanted to hide me away,

703
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: they wanted to make sure that they had me safe.

704
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: We tucked away nobody would see me or find me,

705
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: and walking up State Street and it just felt like,

706
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, a whole bunch of police cars all

707
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: of a sudden showed up and all these police officers

708
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: jumped out and started questioning my captors at first, and

709
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: then they started questioning me.

710
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 2: And you had given a fake name, right, I mean.

711
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: Yes, i'd been I gave a fake name, but I

712
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: had been told like I'd been prepped. There was a

713
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: whole backstory on everything I was supposed to say, on

714
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to do. And I had a

715
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: captor on either side of me, I mean, like physically

716
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: touching me.

717
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 4: You're either side fourteen years old, yeah, and you have

718
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 4: been under this for nine months at this time. Yeah,

719
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 4: that is heavy and brainwashy and reality shifting, and still

720
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 4: at fourteen, that's young.

721
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: So so yes, Initially I did not just give the answers,

722
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: and it wasn't until they separated me from my captors

723
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: that I finally answered them.

724
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 4: Were you hoping that the police could see in you

725
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 4: any sort of like physical like you know, like we

726
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: always kind of joke, like the blink twice kind of thing,

727
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 4: you know, But are you looking at the police like

728
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: like just staring at them like please ask more, please

729
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 4: separate me? Are you what does it feel like in

730
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: that moment because you're so close. I, of course I wanted,

731
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 4: I wanted the police to rescue me, but I also

732
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 4: I didn't.

733
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want to say anything because because you know,

734
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: if the police didn't rescue me, I didn't I didn't

735
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: want to be punished.

736
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be hurt. I didn't want my

737
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 3: family to be hurt.

738
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Like I felt that burden of responsibility it was was

739
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: very heavy. So I didn't want to say anything that

740
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: would possibly endanger my family or myself. But I think

741
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: as a kid, you look at police, you look at

742
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: figures of authority, and you think, like they're superhuman. You

743
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: think they can see through, You think they have all

744
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: the answers, and that you don't need to say anything

745
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: or do anything. They just naturally have all of the answers.

746
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: And I think that's how I felt in that moment,

747
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: like I wanted them to have all the answers. I

748
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: wanted them to see through the lies that I was saying.

749
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: I wanted them to see through the lies that my

750
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: captors were saying. I wanted them to see the truth.

751
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I read that when I think it was maybe

752
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 6: when you're in the police car you can clarify it,

753
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 6: but you were asking if they were okay at that point,

754
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 6: I'm not right.

755
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 3: It was a very. It was like a very.

756
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: It was very intense because the police, they they were

757
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: not gentle. They're not gentle with me, Like, they were

758
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: really very abrasive and quite aggressive. And I don't I

759
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: don't think i'm either as a person, and I was

760
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: a kid, so I was even less so. And as

761
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 1: soon as I had told them who I was, I'd

762
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: been handcuffed.

763
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 4: What Yeah, why handcuff? Why were you handcuffed when you

764
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 4: told them you were Elizabeth?

765
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was handcuffed and I was put in the

766
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: back of the car, and I thought I was in trouble,

767
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: and they really didn't tell me what was going on.

768
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: Why in the world would they handcuff you.

769
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: It's interesting.

770
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of things, and actually about a

771
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: year ago, I for the first time I re met

772
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: the officers that were there that day, and I mean,

773
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm grown up now. It's you know, it's been over

774
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: twenty years since that happened, and it was incredible because it.

775
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 3: Was still like they were still like they were kind.

776
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: I could tell they were happy I was there. I

777
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: could tell that they wanted to answer any questions I had.

778
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: But like, even still they were not gentle people.

779
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: Why did they hank I don't understand. Why why, I

780
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 4: really don't understand.

781
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 3: At the time, there was not like a best practices.

782
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: I was told that just nobody was allowed in the

783
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: back of the police car without being handcuffed. I mean

784
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: they said, like how they had a teenager the week

785
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: before who or recently who wasn't handcuffed and tried to

786
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: stab the driver, the police officer driving. So it was

787
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: like a safety protocol for them. But just so you know,

788
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: I had been handcuffed. I hadn't been told what was

789
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: going on. I didn't know where I was being taken

790
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: because I'd been handcuffed. I thought I was guilty. I

791
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: didn't know if I was just going to be released

792
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: to them, So I mean I did ask questions because

793
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know.

794
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 3: Like, for lack of better words, it.

795
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: Almost felt like I needed to still play play a role,

796
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: that I still needed to protect myself and my family

797
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: because if I was going to be released back to

798
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: these captors, I didn't want to be punished.

799
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 3: I didn't want my family to be endangered. I mean,

800
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: I did not know I was safe.

801
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: I thought if they thought I was innocent, wouldn't they

802
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: have taken me home? Wouldn't they have told me what

803
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: was going on. Wouldn't they have let me call my family?

804
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 6: Like yeah, you'd think that would be the fust What's

805
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 6: it would come from the police officer?

806
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: You're safe, here's a blanket and some warm tea, and

807
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: your family's right there, like.

808
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, stick these home costs and get in the

809
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 5: back of the car.

810
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 4: Awful disgusting, it is it? It has seemed crazy to me,

811
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 4: and I wonder if it feels this way to you,

812
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 4: because like during this time. I live in Michigan. She

813
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 4: lives in Michigan, and we know your name and we

814
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 4: know your face, like you were literally everywhere, And it's

815
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 4: wild to me that you could be taken into public

816
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 4: moved locations beyond a Greyhound bus and people not know

817
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 4: it's you, especially in this kind of like awkward looking

818
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: trio of people that's traveling. Did they change your appearance

819
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 4: at all? Were they you know, like I've I've heard that,

820
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: not like I study a lot of kidnappings, because honestly,

821
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: it all just kind of stresses me out a bit.

822
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 4: And like the fact this man worked on your house,

823
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 4: like I'm like, like, I'm panicking. So that's one of

824
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 4: the questions I have for you. But it usually there's

825
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: like a typically there's some sort of like appearance change

826
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 4: or something so that you're a little less recognizable. Did

827
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: they do those things to you where you like, my

828
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: face has got to be everywhere? How is no one

829
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: recognizing me? Like the silent screams? I just can't imagine.

830
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 4: First of all, I can't imagine being fourteen and this

831
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 4: is your reality for nine full months. I think I

832
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 4: think anyone that questions why you would do anything should

833
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 4: probably stop questioning because you're fourteen and your reality has

834
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 4: become survival, a different kind of trauma that no one

835
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: in this room can identify with no one, And so

836
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 4: I defend you in that and I never want you

837
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 4: to have to over explain yourself ever again if I

838
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 4: had one prayer for you, But do do you feel

839
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 4: like I'm wondering? I'm you, and I'm like, I want

840
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 4: people to feel the silent screams. I want them to

841
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: see something in my eyes that says this is not right.

842
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 4: I want to pass somebody a note at a diner,

843
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 4: I want to take too long in the bathroom, or

844
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 4: you know, like were those thoughts, where are those thoughts

845
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 4: in this whole San Diego relocation and then back to

846
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 4: Salt Lake City, I mean.

847
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: They were always there, Like one time I had to

848
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom and yes I was, I was

849
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: veiled and I was. I mean that the way that

850
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: they had me dressed, I mean, just everything again kind

851
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: of played into that form of that appearance of religious extremism.

852
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: So and again, taking that time period back into consideration,

853
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: like I remember walking down the street seeing people walking

854
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: towards us. They'd stop when they'd see us, they'd cross

855
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: the street, they walked down the other side past us,

856
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: and once.

857
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 3: They were past us, they'd cross back over. I remember people.

858
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: Rolling down their windows, sticking their heads out of their

859
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: windows and yelling things like oh sama, like out the

860
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: window at us. Like they really took advantage of this

861
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: situation to the fullest. I mean they just like they

862
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: really did. And I think it would be.

863
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 3: Silly to say that they were, to say that they

864
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 3: were stupid.

865
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: Mean, unfair, evil, sure, monsters, absolutely, but stupid they were not.

866
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: And they recognized, you know, like, oh, people are scared

867
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: of religion. Like if people question you, like why are

868
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: you doing this or why are you dressed that way?

869
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: And you say, well, it's part of my religion, that

870
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: usually just shuts people up and they walk on their way.

871
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: And so they recognize that, and they utilize that. That

872
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: became a very effective and powerful tool.

873
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: They did make you wear a wag at one time, didn't.

874
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: They They did? Yes?

875
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Oh did they change my parents? So yes, for the

876
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: most part when we were in For most of the time,

877
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: I was I had like a headdress on and had

878
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: like a veil covering my face, and like I was

879
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: dressed in like these long robes. When we were hitchhiking

880
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: back from California, I mean, they had dressed me in

881
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: clothes that they had just like found in an abandoned

882
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: homeless camp. They went to like the equivalent of Dollar

883
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: General or the Dollar Store, and they had like some

884
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,479
Speaker 1: gray wigs that were there, and so on the way

885
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: back they had me wearing like a gray wig, and

886
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: then they had me wearing sunglasses. And I mean then,

887
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: I mean, on top of it, like it was it

888
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: was hard getting back to Utah. I mean California to Utah.

889
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: Like you think, oh, that's like not that far, but actually,

890
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: just like hitch hiking back, I mean you're not even

891
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: taking the most direct route. They were like, oh, we

892
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: don't want people to like, we don't want people to

893
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: know exactly our final destination. So they'd put like different

894
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: cities on their signs and hopefully Utah would just be

895
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: on the way and then we would just drop our

896
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: signs when we got to where we wanted to be.

897
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: But also we spent like so much time out in

898
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: the desert, and there wasn't shade, there wasn't cover. I mean,

899
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: I'm a pretty white person, like I'm borderline glow in

900
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: the dark occasionally, and like I was burned, Like my

901
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: face was was burned and blistered, and then.

902
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 3: It became like puffy.

903
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: So sometimes when I look back at the pictures of

904
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: the day that I was rescued, to hit my vanity.

905
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: But also like, I mean, even then, I look at

906
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: the pictures that they plastered on the front page of

907
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:31,479
Speaker 1: the newspaper, and I'm.

908
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 4: Like, why why, such as you were America's kid, and

909
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 4: we were all looking for you. We didn't bear you

910
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 4: were sunburned. We wanted you back, cared, I know, like, and.

911
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: It's not like it's not like they had me in

912
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: a bra and I was, you know, by that point,

913
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 1: I was fifteen. Like, no fifteen year old girl wants

914
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: to be on the front page of a newspaper or

915
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: a magazine without a bra.

916
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 4: And listen, no one's judging how you looked when you

917
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 4: were rescued, I promise you. But we said you that's

918
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 4: how if we were happy. So how long were they

919
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 4: sentenced for?

920
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: So Brian Mitchell is sentenced for life and wander no chance,

921
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: no chance of Parl, no chance of Wanda Barzee is

922
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 1: now out.

923
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 2: She's out, she's out.

924
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 5: She got and went to a certain eighteen. How did

925
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 5: you feel about that?

926
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: I was disappointed.

927
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: I I mean she was there, she not just like

928
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: she never protected me from him. She encouraged him and

929
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: doing whatever he wanted to me.

930
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: She there with and all the salt stuff was happening.

931
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, like watched it happen, encouraged it to happen.

932
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: So there was like a part of me that was like, well,

933
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: I feel like my mom was always like if you

934
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: don't stand up for people who are being hurt, then

935
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: you're just as bad as the person doing the hurting.

936
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: And maybe that's just like the mentality I was raised with.

937
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: But I look at her, and I mean she had

938
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: a prior marriage where she had six children of her own,

939
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: And part of me is like, how could you like

940
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: bring children into this world, raise children who are all

941
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: older than me, and then sit aside and watch your

942
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: current husband rape me repeatedly and abuse me and like

943
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: chain me up with hold food and water from me,

944
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: forced me to go naked. Like how can you, who

945
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: who was a mother, just sit aside and do that?

946
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 5: Would you ever want to sit in the room with

947
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 5: a no nice expression?

948
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 4: No? No, do you remember the first word your parents

949
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 4: said when they got to see you again.

950
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: My dad was, I mean, he was the first one

951
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: I saw. He came to the Sandy Police station and

952
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: he was like he was just in tears. And I

953
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: didn't know he was coming. I didn't know he was there,

954
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: Like they just didn't tell me anything.

955
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 4: And so I.

956
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: It was shocking, honestly to have him just run in

957
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 3: the room all of a sudden. He was just crying.

958
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 3: He was like, Elizabeth, is it really you? Is it

959
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 3: really you? And he just kind of repeated that over

960
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: and over, and even my mom.

961
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: On the way from the Sandy police station where I

962
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: was initially brought to the downtown headquarters in Salt Lake.

963
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: My dad was in the car.

964
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: We were in the backseat of a police car and

965
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: the police was taking us there, and he like pulled

966
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: out his phone and called my mom up and he's like, Lois,

967
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: it's real, it's real. She's here, she's alive. She's here

968
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: with me. And I was like, let me talk to her,

969
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: let me talk to her. Put her on the phone,

970
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: and so he passed the phone to me and my

971
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: mom she said the same thing. She's like, Elizabeth, Elizabeth,

972
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: like is it really you? Are you there are you

973
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: like like say something to speak, say something and then

974
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 1: the his battery died.

975
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I know, Dad, I know, bro, I

976
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 4: didn't see that coming. I'm not gonna lie, Dad, Like,

977
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 4: did you get him a charger for his birthday?

978
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: Well Christmas?

979
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 3: That it was back when everyone had like a Nokia brick.

980
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 4: Put them for having a phone, to be honest, because

981
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, two thousand and two we were flip

982
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 4: phoning and yeah, it was.

983
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 3: It wasn't a smartphone. It was like when you're.

984
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 4: Pushing A three times to get you know, like or

985
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: one three times to get an A or whatever.

986
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was like one charge would last you

987
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: a few days. I mean the only thing you could

988
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: do was call, text and maybe play Snake and that

989
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: was it.

990
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: Oh snaky wow. Way to bring it back.

991
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: So you got to.

992
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: You got to say something to Brian though when he

993
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: was sentenced correct.

994
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean he didn't. How was that listen, of course?

995
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: But how was that for you to to say something

996
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: to him? Would you want to go back? Is there

997
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 2: something you'd want to go back and say differently? Would

998
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: you want to say I wish I would have said

999
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: this or this is what I would want to say

1000
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 2: to him now, So I'm sure for teen versus what

1001
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 2: you're in your thirties.

1002
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't.

1003
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: The trial didn't happen until I was in my twenties,

1004
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: Like it was almost it was almost.

1005
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 3: A decade after I was rescued. Yeah, the it's crazy.

1006
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: Actually, so my case went straight into the state courts,

1007
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: which is what you'd expect, but it took so long,

1008
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: and it was back when there was a statute of limitations.

1009
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: And actually it was taking so long in the state

1010
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: courts that the Statute of limitations was coming up, so

1011
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: there was a chance they could have been released, wow,

1012
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: just because that statute of limitations was coming into effect, which.

1013
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: Is when I was then approached by the.

1014
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: US Attorney of Utah and asked if I wanted to

1015
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: move it to federal courts, if I wanted, like the

1016
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: federal courts to try to prosecute it, And he explained

1017
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: to me what was happening in the state courts, and

1018
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: I was like, of course, is that even a question

1019
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: like do I want him out? No, of course I

1020
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: want him behind bars. And so then it got moved

1021
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: to the.

1022
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: Federal courts, and that still even then took a long time.

1023
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 3: I mean it was I think eight nine years when

1024
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 3: it finally came to trial and sentencing. I think was

1025
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: just shy of ten years, maybe for nine years right

1026
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: around there, Like it was, it was a long time.

1027
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: So by the time, like when I've made my victim

1028
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: impact statement to him, like a lot of time had

1029
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: passed and I'd grown up a lot. Honestly, I don't

1030
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: even fully remember what I said that day, but I

1031
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: trust myself.

1032
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 2: So there's nothing you would say now then to him.

1033
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 3: I don't have anything to say to him.

1034
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alan, you were you were saying earlier too, You're like,

1035
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should come on, how she'd

1036
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: feel about being around a guy, And I'm like, well,

1037
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 2: she's older now, she's not.

1038
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 6: I understand not wasn't It was me because you didn't

1039
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 6: know I was going to be in possibly going to

1040
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 6: be in this, and then you guys have turned up

1041
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 6: and all of a sudden, I'm like, yeah, I want to.

1042
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 6: So it was almost intrusive, and I didn't want to

1043
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 6: be the male in the room that was making himself

1044
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 6: a part of this when maybe it wasn't welcome.

1045
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: That was my thought.

1046
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: You were going off of it because of like how

1047
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: she trusts men.

1048
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 5: Now, yeah, there was a.

1049
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 6: Little bit of that, Like it was one it was

1050
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 6: going to be intrusive. It may have come off as disrespectful,

1051
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 6: and I didn't.

1052
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 5: You're clearly.

1053
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 6: A very powerful woman told in a very powerful woman

1054
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 6: and very powerfelt kid, But I don't know what you

1055
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 6: are like around men there. So I was like maybe

1056
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 6: I should maybe I'm not welcome, which is what I

1057
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 6: said to you. I might not be welcome in the room.

1058
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 2: Well always welcome back, but.

1059
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 5: Husband, and I'm like, oh, she's good.

1060
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 2: But how was that to trust men after that?

1061
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: Well? As a teenager, yeah, I was scared of men,

1062
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: Like I didn't want to be left alone with men.

1063
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 3: I didn't trust men. But again, like it's not like

1064
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: think Kevin's.

1065
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up in a society where there are

1066
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: arranged marriages and thank goodness, it's not like my parents

1067
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: were like, oh, Elizabeth, like we're gonna we're gonna sign

1068
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: you up to marry this like fifty year old man.

1069
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: Like that's not If that had been my life, then

1070
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: I probably would still be scared of men. But like

1071
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: I was, I was brought home and like I wasn't

1072
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: forced into anything, and like my parents tried to support

1073
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: me and give me whatever space I wanted or needed.

1074
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: And I mean I trusted my dad, and I trusted

1075
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: my grandpa, and I trusted my uncles, and that was

1076
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: about it. My brothers, I've got four of them, and

1077
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: that was enough at first, you know. And then, like

1078
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: as silly as it might sound, during my kidnapping, like

1079
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: when he's telling me that I'm now his wife, when

1080
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: he's telling me that like one day I'll have his kids,

1081
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: that I will you know, I will come to love him,

1082
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: that I will come to you know, willingly do all

1083
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: of the things he was forcing me to do. Like

1084
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: it just felt like he was like shattering one dream

1085
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: at a time, because like, yeah, I totally was that

1086
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: little girl that like one day I did want to

1087
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: grow up and fall in love and I wanted to

1088
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: get married, and I wanted to have a family, and

1089
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: I wanted all those things. I'm not saying like I

1090
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: wanted that I'm like right that second, but I mean

1091
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: like I wanted those things from my life, and like

1092
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: it felt like those things had been taken away from me.

1093
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: And so when I was rescued, I mean it kind

1094
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: of felt like those things, at least the opportunity for

1095
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: things those things to happen, had been given back. So

1096
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: although I wasn't ready for any of that at that time,

1097
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: like those were still things I wanted in my life.

1098
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 3: So I'm just yeah, I'm grateful for the time that

1099
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 3: I had.

1100
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 2: And how was that healing journey? Was it just like,

1101
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 2: what was the thing that helped you the most through

1102
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: the healing?

1103
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 3: I think it was just knowing that I was loved unconditionally.

1104
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: I think that made the biggest, the biggest difference and

1105
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: the biggest impact. And actually now as an advocate, when

1106
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: I talked to parents, I think that is probably the

1107
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: greatest gift that any parent can give their child, is

1108
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: to make sure that they know that they're.

1109
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 3: Well, that their children know that you love them unconditionally.

1110
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: There are no strings attached to your love. Your children

1111
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 3: might disappoint you or might do things that you don't

1112
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 3: agree with, but you will still love them. They couldn't

1113
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 3: do anything that would ever stop you from loving them.

1114
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: Right.

1115
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: Well, when we talk about this a lot too, because

1116
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: KB is Christon's very protective, I say, a psychopath, but

1117
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 2: well I was I was trying to be nice. So yeah,

1118
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 2: like you like, I mean she's breathes the air up close,

1119
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,439
Speaker 2: like and it just has them. And I'm a little

1120
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: bit more, you know, I still very protective, but there's

1121
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: a there's a so I will say, as a mom, now,

1122
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 2: how what do you what are you doing? I know,

1123
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: the to make sure they love the love unconditional, But

1124
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: is there from your experience and what happened to you

1125
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: as a kid, is there something that you're now doing

1126
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 2: as a mom being more aware of or I mean

1127
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: I don't even know, like what's the I mean, stranger.

1128
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 4: Danger is one thing, right, like we all know that,

1129
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 4: but like being in the walk that you've had, Yeah,

1130
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 4: how does that transform into being the daughter, son or

1131
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 4: children of Elizabeth smart Well?

1132
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 3: I mean, first I just want to say, like my

1133
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 3: case really is the exception.

1134
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, it's not me like bragging or being

1135
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: like I'm so special, but it really is the exception

1136
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: in that I Mike story is a stranger abduction.

1137
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: I did not know him. I did not have a

1138
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 3: personal relationship with him. I did not know him.

1139
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: He saw me one time for like forty five seconds maybe,

1140
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: and that was it. That was all he decided that's

1141
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: all it took, and he had decided. I was one

1142
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: conem I didn't know him, there was no personal relationship there.

1143
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 3: The vast majority of abductions.

1144
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: Of sexual assault come from people that you know, people

1145
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: that you trust, whether that's a family member, someone in

1146
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: your community that you have a relationshipship with, someone that

1147
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: has access to your kids. That is where the vast

1148
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: majority of a productions and sexual assault comes from. And

1149
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: so when we do talk to kids, I think it

1150
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: is so important to be clear, like I like, talk

1151
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: about what can be, what happens, make sure that they

1152
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: realize that if they say no, that no has power

1153
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: and that that no should be respected, That they that

1154
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: other people don't have control over their body. That yes,

1155
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: there are of course situations like you know, if a

1156
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: child needs helps bathing themselves, or like they got hurt

1157
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: and they need you to look at it, or you're

1158
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: taking them into the doctor and you're in the room

1159
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: with them, Like there's times when it's appropriate that that

1160
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: for someone else to touch their body or look at

1161
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: their body, but for the most part it's it's not,

1162
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: and that they should trust their instinct if they don't

1163
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: feel safe, if they don't like someone if they like

1164
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: if they I don't know, if their radar is going off,

1165
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: that something's wrong, that that should be, that those instincts

1166
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: should be encouraged, and then that bond of trust between

1167
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: you and your child should be so strong that they

1168
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: know that they can come to you, talk to you

1169
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: about what's happened, and you will believe them instead of

1170
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: just dismissing it. You will believe them, and you'll support them,

1171
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: and then you'll help them to like figure out what

1172
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: to do next. So I think, for me, what I

1173
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: try to do, I'm not perfect in it, none of us,

1174
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: by the way, and I'm not a parenting expert. Just

1175
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: for the record, I feel like a lot of people

1176
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: ask me, so, how do you raise your kids? I'm like, well,

1177
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying, still trying to figure it out. I am

1178
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: so open to suggestions and advice other parents have, But

1179
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: I feel like the advice that I've been given, the

1180
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: things that I feel like i'm like learning along the

1181
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: way that I've been helpful are I mean being open

1182
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: with your kids. When your kids start asking questions, that's

1183
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: the right time to start giving them answers. Don't wait

1184
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: for them to google it or learn from a friend.

1185
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 2: Do they know about your kidnapping?

1186
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1187
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 3: They all could tell you the.

1188
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: Very broad overarching stone, right, They probably couldn't tell you

1189
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: nitty gritty details of anything.

1190
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because you're right, because they can anybody can

1191
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 2: google anything. Is there anything that you you haven't told me?

1192
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 2: Did you tell them about the assaults?

1193
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: And so my oldest she we've started having those conversations.

1194
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: We haven't gone into huge depth yet, but we have

1195
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: begun having those conversations because I also think of like

1196
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: who I was before I was kidnapped, and like, honestly,

1197
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: like I was innocence. I was like I might have

1198
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: been fourteen, but I didn't know anything, Like I loved

1199
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: a very sheltered life.

1200
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: I lived a very protected life.

1201
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: And also like in my life, nobody took the time

1202
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: to like talk to me and be like there's a

1203
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: difference between like consenting sex versus rape versus sexual be

1204
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: so all of it kind of seemed like it was

1205
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: the same thing to me, and I kind of I

1206
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: look back on my life and I think how damaging

1207
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: not having that education was during my kidnapping and how

1208
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: long it took me to learn that afterwards, and how hard.

1209
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 3: Honestly, that road was learning that.

1210
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I want my girls in particular, to

1211
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: like understand there is a very big difference between abuse,

1212
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, and rape versus.

1213
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: Like loving intimacy.

1214
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: And I don't want them to feel ashamed. I mean,

1215
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: heaven forbid anything it's ever happens to them, to any

1216
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: of my kids, But I don't want them to ever

1217
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: feel ashamed for someone else's actions because I did, even

1218
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: though like I knew, like logically I knew it wasn't

1219
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,959
Speaker 1: my fault, but I still was embarrassed just because people

1220
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: they didn't talk about abuse, and they didn't talk about rape,

1221
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: and they didn't talk about you know, sure there's the news,

1222
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 1: but that kind of that felt unrelatable. That felt like

1223
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: it was a different world. It didn't feel like it

1224
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: was my world. It felt like it was some world on.

1225
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 3: The wrong side of the tracks, if you will. So

1226
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,479
Speaker 3: that was really that was hard.

1227
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, now where can listeners find you? And then

1228
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 2: where can they find your advocacy work to So.

1229
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, we started the Elizabeth Smart Foundation and

1230
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: we're still here, miraculously amazing. So go to Elizabethsmartfoundation dot org.

1231
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: And that's our website or Elizabeth Smart Foundation on Instagram

1232
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: or Facebook social media sites. We're there, and then we

1233
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: have our own podcast called Smart Talks. It is also

1234
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: through the foundation where we cover I mean, we cover

1235
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: these harder topics, but we also have like inspiring, amazing

1236
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: guests who share their stories or their expertise and their

1237
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: knowledge of all things pertaining to.

1238
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 3: Un around the world of.

1239
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: Rape and sexual violence and hope and healing And.

1240
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 4: What would be the one thing you would want them

1241
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 4: to know that have been in that abuse.

1242
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a few things I'd want them

1243
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: to know. I think the first thing I'd want them

1244
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: to know is that that you do matter.

1245
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 3: You are special. This is not your fault, Like you

1246
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 3: didn't do anything to deserve this. Nobody wakes up.

1247
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 1: In the morning and being like, oh, what today feels

1248
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: like a really good day to be abused? Like nobody

1249
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: does that. Nobody deserves to be hurt or abuse. The

1250
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: next thing I'd want them to know is that I

1251
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: know it can feel like this is going to define

1252
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: you for the rest of your life. Like I don't

1253
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: know how many airplanes I've gotten on or restaurants I've

1254
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: sat down in where people just stare and stare and stare,

1255
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: and they're like, I know I know you from somewhere.

1256
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: You just your face is so familiar.

1257
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:09,439
Speaker 3: Where do I know you from?

1258
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: And then and then it'll like hit him and I'm like,

1259
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: you're that girl that was kidnapped. I'm like, say it

1260
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: a little bit louder, please, It's not like I'm on

1261
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: a date or anything.

1262
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 4: Also I'm an adult and also awkward. Yeah, but remember

1263
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 4: later and write it jump in a journal or something, sir.

1264
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: Like it's easy to feel like defined by one moment

1265
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: in your life, or like one thing in your life.

1266
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: Like I remember after I was rescued, I was so

1267
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: worried if I died tomorrow and my funeral happened tomorrow,

1268
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: what is what is going to be the topic anybody

1269
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: talks about?

1270
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 3: Oh, it's such a tragedy, Like she was kidnapped and

1271
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 3: then she died. She kidnapped and survived just to die,

1272
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 3: Like I was, like, my kidnapping is going to dominate

1273
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 3: my funeral? Like what a morbid thought for like a

1274
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,439
Speaker 3: fifteen year old kid to have, But that was my thought.

1275
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 1: So like I think it's common to feel like easily

1276
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: defined by these moments maybe one or two moments in

1277
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 1: your life.

1278
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 3: But I don't think that's the truth.

1279
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: I think you define yourself by how you live your life,

1280
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: what you do next, how you respond, like what you

1281
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: do the rest of today, what you do the rest

1282
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: of tomorrow, the rest of your life, Like I think

1283
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: that's kind of.

1284
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: What makes you who you are. And then and then finally,

1285
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 3: the last thing I'd want someone who has been abused

1286
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 3: to know is that you deserve to be happy. Take

1287
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 3: time for happiness. Find your happiness, like whatever it is,

1288
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 3: like singing or dancing, or painting, or reading a book

1289
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 3: or baking, I don't know, football, like whatever it.

1290
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 4: Is, whistling you love to whistled on? That sounds like

1291
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 4: a point.

1292
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 3: Must be another Scottish trade.

1293
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 1: Like find whatever it is that brings you joy and

1294
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: practice it regularly, Like don't just like put it off

1295
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: for tomorrow, like all of us have busy less there's

1296
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: always something to fill your life life up with, like take.

1297
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: Time just to enjoy and be happy as well.

1298
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 2: A meant to that. Well, thank you so much Elisheth

1299
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 2: for coming on and sharing your story and everything that

1300
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 2: you do. Thank you, appreciate you, Thank you