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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four

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Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the NFL a Legends Podcast. I am

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Speaker 1: a Nius Williams. As part of our Storyteller series, we

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Speaker 1: invite legends to come on and tell their stories. Today,

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Speaker 1: for the first time, we have a current player. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited about Pro Bowl linebacker and NFL Walter Payton

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Speaker 1: Man of the Year Award winner Thomas Davis of the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Charges. Welcome Thomas, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it, so glad to have you. Man. The

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Speaker 1: first thing I want to ask you, it's incredible. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea you had had that many surgeries. Yes,

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Speaker 1: three consecutive years a c L surgery, Yes, sir, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was probably one of the most difficult things that

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Speaker 1: I've ever gone through, you know, to think about tearing

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Speaker 1: the A c L one time. You know, that was

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Speaker 1: my first ever time having to have surgery. Well, actually though,

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Speaker 1: that was my first time having a knee surgery. I

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Speaker 1: told my labor my second year in the league that

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Speaker 1: was my first time having surgery, but my first time

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Speaker 1: ever being out for the fourth season was tearing my

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Speaker 1: A c L. And then to be able to rehab

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Speaker 1: that and come back and be out there six six

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Speaker 1: months removed from surgery and go out and running four

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Speaker 1: for because in Carolina we used to we used to

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Speaker 1: do combine testing every offseason, so you know, they just

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Speaker 1: kind of wanted to know where you were. So we

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Speaker 1: had the bench, we had to jump, we had to

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Speaker 1: run the forties, we had to do all of that

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Speaker 1: stuff that the five in five. We did all of

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Speaker 1: that every year. The only thing that I participated in

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Speaker 1: after coming off of those out for that first surgery

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Speaker 1: was the forty and I ran a four fourth, so

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Speaker 1: they kind of felt like I was back. There was

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Speaker 1: only six and a half months removed from surgery. Four four,

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Speaker 1: I was too thirty two thirty to thirty six months removed.

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Speaker 1: And then so I go back out and they were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you ran the four four, you you look healthy.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna try to increase the workload. We're gonna do

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Speaker 1: some linebacker drills, and first day during linebacker drills, reinjured

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Speaker 1: my A c L. Are you serious? Yes? I was

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Speaker 1: out there without a knee braced on. Go out, do

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Speaker 1: the linebacker drill, make one twist and move and I

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Speaker 1: felt it. I knew once you feel that pain of

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Speaker 1: tearing your A c L for the first time, you

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Speaker 1: never forget that feller. So I knew instantly, and they

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Speaker 1: was like, no, maybe it was just scar tissue. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't scar tissue. I felt this pain before, so

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Speaker 1: have the m R. I confirmed that. You know, I

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Speaker 1: re entered my A c L and during that time,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, God, why is this happening to me?

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Speaker 1: Like what did I do to deserve this? And you

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Speaker 1: know you kind of go through that, that whole thought

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Speaker 1: process of of y me y me, And then after

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, you know, sitting asking that question,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think God kind of put it on

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Speaker 1: me to to think, like, who else on your team

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Speaker 1: would you rather have this happened to? And then it instantly,

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Speaker 1: you know, I started to transition from the y me too.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's nobody else on our team that I

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Speaker 1: would wish this on. So God put this on me

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Speaker 1: because he knew that I could handle. So I go,

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Speaker 1: you know, change the whole thought process in the mindset.

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Speaker 1: So now I gotta have surgery again. Boom, I go

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Speaker 1: have this surgery. UM second a c L tear um.

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Speaker 1: In that phase, I go rehab it, come back. We

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Speaker 1: get locked out, rehab second time rehabs that come back,

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Speaker 1: lock off, lockout. So now I can't even go at

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Speaker 1: that point after I had surgery, I can't do my

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Speaker 1: rehab with you. Won't You're not able to do. Couldn't

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Speaker 1: even go over to the facility to rehab with the trainers,

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Speaker 1: none of that. So you have to try to find

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Speaker 1: the outside um rehab facility to start rehabbing you. And

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Speaker 1: you know the lockout was short lived. You know it

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Speaker 1: didn't last a very long time. So I was able

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Speaker 1: to get back in with our trainers, get back to

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Speaker 1: full speed, comeback. Play one game, we play Arizona. We

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Speaker 1: lost that game. Second game of the season, playing at home.

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Speaker 1: Um we got the Super Bowl, defended champs Green Bay

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Speaker 1: Packers at home, and fourth quarter of that game, I

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Speaker 1: got my knee brace song, feeling fine, we're playing well,

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Speaker 1: we're winning the game. Go to make a tackle and

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Speaker 1: one of our A lineman come in after I hit

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Speaker 1: the guy and I get leg by one of our

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Speaker 1: A lineman running to the ball instantly felt that same

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Speaker 1: pain again, so I knew what it was differently, same leg,

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Speaker 1: same three three consecutive a c l s to the

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Speaker 1: same leg. And at that point, in my mind, it's

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Speaker 1: over with. You know, being around the league for like

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Speaker 1: six or seven years, at that point, I knew that,

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Speaker 1: you know, guys don't get opportunities in this league. After

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Speaker 1: continuing to tear the a c l let alone one

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Speaker 1: or two times, but for a third time, there's no way.

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Speaker 1: You know, I put up a good fight, I've done everything,

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Speaker 1: and I just I just knew that it was over

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Speaker 1: with for me. So I kind of had a meeting.

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Speaker 1: I sat down with my wife, you know, after it happened,

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Speaker 1: and you know, our team chaplain at the time, Mike

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Speaker 1: Bunkley sat down with him, and you know, they both

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Speaker 1: of them kind of presented me your question, you know,

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Speaker 1: like do you really, in your heart feel that you

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Speaker 1: no longer want to play the game, that that you're

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Speaker 1: done with it? And I was like, I still want

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Speaker 1: to play, but I just know that the business side

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Speaker 1: of it, nobody's gonna give me a shot to play.

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Speaker 1: After this, it was like well, my wife says, She's like,

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Speaker 1: you have to have surgery anyway, So if you're going

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Speaker 1: to go through the surgery, you might as well go

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Speaker 1: through the surgery to try to come back. So I'm like,

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Speaker 1: are you right? I still love the game, I still

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Speaker 1: have a passionate. I'm still in my twenties. So let

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Speaker 1: me find out from the team if there's a chance

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Speaker 1: that there's an opportunity. So I go, I sit down

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Speaker 1: with put a meeting together. It's our trainer, Ryan Vermillion,

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Speaker 1: our new head coach, run rivera GM, Marty Herning, and

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Speaker 1: our own and Mr Richardson. So you're sitting down talking.

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Speaker 1: We're all sitting in the meeting. Yeah, we're sitting down

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Speaker 1: in the meeting. And and Mr Richardson was the person

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Speaker 1: in that meeting that said, if you're willing to put

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Speaker 1: your self through it, I'm willing to give you another

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Speaker 1: shot because I believe in you. That's all I needed

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Speaker 1: to hear. That's all I needed to hear, Like to

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Speaker 1: have the reassurance from the owner, the one person that

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Speaker 1: really mattered the more in that organization from a standpoint

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Speaker 1: of me coming back to say that he believed in me.

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Speaker 1: That was all the motivation that I needed. So not

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Speaker 1: one day did I go into the reheap process after

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Speaker 1: having that third surgery and letting Dr Andrews perform it.

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Speaker 1: Not one day did I go into it with a

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Speaker 1: negative thought that it wasn't gonna happen. Every single day

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Speaker 1: it was. It was positive energy, positive thought process. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be the first player to ever come back from

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Speaker 1: three consecutive a c l s and make this work

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Speaker 1: because I got someone that believes in me and I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna let him down. That was my thought process

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Speaker 1: each and every day, grinding the way times got hard,

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Speaker 1: you continue to grind it away. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the days went by, the weeks went by,

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Speaker 1: the months went by, and I'm out there on the

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Speaker 1: field and I'm flying around and I'm just having fun.

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Speaker 1: And Carolina drafted a linebacker that year. I got invited

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Speaker 1: to the to the draft party and we drafted a linebacker.

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Speaker 1: And in my mind instantly when we drafted him, I'm

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Speaker 1: like day they said they believed in me, but they

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Speaker 1: drafted and got to replace me. Drafted Louke Kickly in

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Speaker 1: the first round. Oh wow, So i'ing like it was

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Speaker 1: It was crushing. It was a heart heartbreaking, But at

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Speaker 1: the same time I used it as motivation, Like they

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Speaker 1: drafted him, but it's two other spots on that field

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Speaker 1: for linebackers to play. So all that's going through your mind,

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Speaker 1: all that is going through my mind, and I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: there's two other spots and I'm gonna have one of them.

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Speaker 1: So they kind of winged me back into playing, you know,

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Speaker 1: they kind of created a nickel package for me to

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Speaker 1: come in and play. It's how we started that season.

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Speaker 1: But by week three, week four, I was back in

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Speaker 1: the starting lineup. Did you ever sence that, because of

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Speaker 1: your surgeries that the culture staff had hesitance? Did you ever,

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Speaker 1: how did you deal with the doubt maybe around you?

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Speaker 1: You know, I understood and I knew that there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of doubts. They It was a situation where

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Speaker 1: you can't really invest a whole lot of stock into

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Speaker 1: a guy that's coming back from three a c l

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Speaker 1: s because you don't know how the body is gonna

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Speaker 1: perform after going through all of that. You don't know

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Speaker 1: how the knee is gonna hold up. And once he

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Speaker 1: gets frankly, you know, the knee had let me down.

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Speaker 1: Three years in a row, so I mean, you gotta

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Speaker 1: protect yourself from an organizational standpoint, And I understood that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I was. I was older

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Speaker 1: player in the game at that point, so I knew

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Speaker 1: the business side of things. I've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: players come and go that had dealt with injury at

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Speaker 1: that point. So it was it was all about making

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Speaker 1: sure that I did everything in my powers to make

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Speaker 1: sure that I was strong enough to play the game,

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Speaker 1: you know, attacking the rehab process, not taking any days off,

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Speaker 1: not taking anything for granted, making sure that I was

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Speaker 1: listening to our trainers, and always keeping my knee brace on,

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Speaker 1: making sure I'm keeping my quad strength up, all of

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Speaker 1: those things. Each and every day. I stayed focused in

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Speaker 1: on because I knew that I was being put in

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Speaker 1: the position and I had been tested early, so it's

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Speaker 1: important for me to continue to be obedient. Now you

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Speaker 1: said obedient, we don't hear those words anymore. When you

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Speaker 1: said obedience, you mean to exactly what trainer said, to do,

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Speaker 1: to do what the trainers say, to listen to stay

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Speaker 1: on course. It's not about getting the head of schedule.

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Speaker 1: It's not about so this is not it's a process.

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Speaker 1: It's a process, and you gotta stick to the process.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as players, you know you you're competitive.

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Speaker 1: You know you want to see what your body can do.

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Speaker 1: You want to go out. You just they just drafted

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Speaker 1: the first rounder, so you want to you want to

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Speaker 1: let them know that, hey, I'm still here, I still

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Speaker 1: can do this. But it's following the process. It's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not. You had to subject your egos. Absolutely, you had.

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Speaker 1: You had to. You had to do that because if

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Speaker 1: you want to be around and you want to play

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Speaker 1: for the long haul, you want to still be able

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Speaker 1: to play this game, you don't. You don't have any

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Speaker 1: more chances to waste. I want to go back. Who

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Speaker 1: called the meeting with the owner, the coach, the trainers.

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Speaker 1: You know it was it was something that I set up,

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Speaker 1: so you had I set it up. But what made

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Speaker 1: you get all of them together? Why? Who? Who thinks

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Speaker 1: of that? I mean, you know, for me, at that point,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was it was all about the now.

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Speaker 1: So it was before I had my surgery, so I

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Speaker 1: had to find out, you know, if there was gonna

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Speaker 1: be an opportunity which basically would let me know which

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Speaker 1: surgery that I was gonna do, you know, because this

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Speaker 1: time I didn't have any more graphs to take from

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Speaker 1: my right knee, so they had to do surgery on

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Speaker 1: both knees. They took pteller from my left knee to

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Speaker 1: fix my right knee. Hold on, let's go back this

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Speaker 1: discussion to see what the organization was, so you can

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Speaker 1: decide which surgery to take. Yes, because explain have some

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Speaker 1: some less invasive surgeries that you can do, Like you

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Speaker 1: can use a cadaver, which is you know, the recovery

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Speaker 1: process is a lot easier, but it's not as strong.

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Speaker 1: So you could have done that procedure and just rolled

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Speaker 1: off into something, rolled off into the sunset and been

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Speaker 1: and been fine. But how much more of a risk

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Speaker 1: was the more evasive surgery, Oh, it was. It was

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Speaker 1: a lot more riskier because they had taken the hamstring

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Speaker 1: graph the first time, they took my right propeller the

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Speaker 1: second time. In the third time in order to do

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Speaker 1: the surgery they and for it to really be successful,

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Speaker 1: they was gonna have to take the pateler for my

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Speaker 1: left knee. So I was gonna have to have surgery

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Speaker 1: on both knees, and so mess with the perfectly Yes

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Speaker 1: to make the other one perfect? How did you do that?

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Speaker 1: You know? For me, it was it was the love,

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Speaker 1: in the in the passion, the desire to still play

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Speaker 1: this game. Knowing that I was a football player and

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Speaker 1: I love doing what I did, and I wasn't ready

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Speaker 1: to stop doing it yet. I let the team doctor

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Speaker 1: do the first two surgeries. The third time, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do it all my way. I'm going to see

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Speaker 1: doctor Andrews, a doctor that's known to be the best

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Speaker 1: at doing a c L surgeries. I'm gonna let him

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Speaker 1: perform it. I went to see Dot Andrews. He gave

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Speaker 1: me a boult of confidence. He said, I'm not doing

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Speaker 1: surgery on you for you to sit on your butt.

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Speaker 1: If I'm doing this surgery on you, I fully expect

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Speaker 1: you to come back and play. And you needed that.

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Speaker 1: I needed to hear that from that profession. I definitely

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Speaker 1: needed to hear that. I hold on, I want to

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Speaker 1: go back, you said, I decided the third time to

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Speaker 1: do it. Share that. You know, so when you come

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Speaker 1: in and for a gout, it that never really been hurt.

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Speaker 1: So you try to follow. You try to follow the

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Speaker 1: guidance of the team doctors and the trainers and you know,

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Speaker 1: you just shot you just try to do things the

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Speaker 1: way that they want you to do it. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was just okay, let the team doctor do it.

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Speaker 1: He can monitor me, he can stay on top of

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Speaker 1: my rehab process, and just you know, just that was

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Speaker 1: just kind of the easiest route to go opposed to,

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Speaker 1: you know, flying all the way down to Alabama, having

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Speaker 1: a surgery down there, then having to fly back after

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Speaker 1: you had surgery. It was just easier to go through

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Speaker 1: the team doctor. But if you do it the first

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Speaker 1: two times with a with a guy and it fails

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Speaker 1: you the third time, I don't I don't have another

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Speaker 1: opportunity for it to fail. I need this to be

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Speaker 1: done right. Did you have anybody that you would have

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Speaker 1: these discussions with two make these decisions. It was always

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Speaker 1: my wife, really, That was that was my shoulder to

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Speaker 1: cry on. That was my person that I leaned on.

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Speaker 1: We um discussing together, whenever we had whenever we ran

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Speaker 1: into certain things. She was always researching stuff for me

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Speaker 1: and she was my my researcher. Like everything that we

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Speaker 1: needed to know we found out together. How much more

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Speaker 1: did you learn about your wife? Oh? My god, man,

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Speaker 1: I like I literally learned that she was everything for me. Man.

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Speaker 1: I literally learned that throughout that process because when nobody

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Speaker 1: else was there, she was there. Nobody when nobody when

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Speaker 1: nobody else was there, no family members, no friends, when

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Speaker 1: nobody else was there, she was there doing the grunt work.

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Speaker 1: And I mean she was there pushing me the whole way,

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Speaker 1: making sure that I had everything that I needed. She

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Speaker 1: was pregnant at the time of one of the surgeries, uh,

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Speaker 1: of my last surgery, she was pregnant at the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was a lot that that had gone

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Speaker 1: on in our lives at that time, and two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine was extremely difficult because not only was that

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Speaker 1: the first year that I had my a c L tear,

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Speaker 1: that was the first year that I found out that

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Speaker 1: I had a heart condition heart condition UM. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine, in Carolina, they started this thing called the

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Speaker 1: Heart of a Champion. And you know, there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of kids that were um that we're having issues and

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Speaker 1: in passing away from playing sports and Carolina that had

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Speaker 1: heart issues that they never knew about. So they started

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Speaker 1: this thing. They got with some heart doctors that put

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Speaker 1: this together for all of the athletes in in Carolina's

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Speaker 1: and they wanted to do screenings for the kids to

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Speaker 1: find out, you know, who had certain things going on

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Speaker 1: that they didn't know about, and they did some e

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Speaker 1: k G s and UM echo cardiogram testing. They needed

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Speaker 1: a player, the volunteer to be able to get the

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Speaker 1: kids decided about it. I mean, you know, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I love being able to help kids out

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Speaker 1: and giving back to the community. So I volunteer for it.

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Speaker 1: I go through through the process and I go in

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Speaker 1: and I'm getting the kids decided, and I decided to

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Speaker 1: go lay down and you know, get the screen and done.

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Speaker 1: And in that process of getting that screen and done,

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Speaker 1: the doctor was like, so, you know you hear that.

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Speaker 1: You're like, do what does that mean? You're thinking, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm just doing a routine, routine check up. I'm I

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Speaker 1: get stressed to the highest level as a professional athlete,

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Speaker 1: you know, with all of that Matt drills in college.

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Speaker 1: Nothing gets harder than doing Matt drills in college. So

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Speaker 1: I go from being perfectly healthy, two, we found something

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Speaker 1: wrong with your heart. We need to do open heart

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Speaker 1: surgery on you next week. What that's not My two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine off season started that was the That

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Speaker 1: was the first time in my life where I really

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Speaker 1: really experience then got to know that the power of

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Speaker 1: prayer is amazing and how much prayer can change things,

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Speaker 1: because you don't go from searching for doctors to perform

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Speaker 1: an open heart surgery to not having to have it

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Speaker 1: at all, Like it don't just happen like that. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean not having to help at all? So

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Speaker 1: when we first found it out, the consensus was, we

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Speaker 1: have to do this. The people that have what I have,

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Speaker 1: you find it out by having an autopsy or from

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Speaker 1: having that that um the screening that we were doing

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Speaker 1: that day, and you would have never had I would

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Speaker 1: have never known had I not here to help these

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Speaker 1: kids out that I had a heart condition. I was

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Speaker 1: born with an abnormal coronary artery. So instead of um

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Speaker 1: eventicle coming from the left and the right side, I

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Speaker 1: have two on the right side. And if I'm like

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Speaker 1: stressed to a high level, it could have pinched the

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Speaker 1: artery and once it pinches you, so you end up

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Speaker 1: dying because it stops the blood circulation. You know, you

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Speaker 1: go through this process, you find all this stuff out

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Speaker 1: and you're hoping that Okay, if I had this open

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Speaker 1: heart surgery. It is this chance that I can come back.

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Speaker 1: And we went from looking, like I said, looking from

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Speaker 1: doctors to do the surgery, to sending it around to

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Speaker 1: Emory and sending it around to Cleveland Clinic and having

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Speaker 1: a bunch of doctors look at my results and them

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Speaker 1: coming to the conclusion that if something was gonna happen

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Speaker 1: to you, it would have already happened. The way MA

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Speaker 1: was I feel in the one percentile. Wow. We developed

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Speaker 1: a prayer group and we had a ton of people

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Speaker 1: that were praying for us, and we me and my wife,

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Speaker 1: we constantly prayed each and every night, you know, for

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Speaker 1: for clarity, for please. Um allowed it to be a

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Speaker 1: way that I was going to be able to still

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Speaker 1: play the game. That's why in two thousand and nine, Man,

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Speaker 1: the way that season started, I attacked that year. I

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Speaker 1: was leading our team in tackles and sacks and interception

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Speaker 1: seven games through the season. Because my mindset was I've

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Speaker 1: been given a second chance, so don't take nothing for granted.

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Speaker 1: And that that was my mindset, Like I'm going out

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Speaker 1: and I'm playing. So you've seen it from a whole

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Speaker 1: whole different perspective, a whole different perspective, like everything became

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Speaker 1: a lot clearer after going through that process. I attacked

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, and halfway through that season, we

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Speaker 1: played in New Orleans. Fourth quarter, I go to rewrite

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Speaker 1: receiver and that first time I felt that feeling in

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Speaker 1: my knee. So I would love for this little marital

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Speaker 1: tip for current players haven't gone through this and seeing

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Speaker 1: how much of a blessing your wife was. What wisdom

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Speaker 1: would you give current players to know when they possibly

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Speaker 1: have a woman like yours, and when you have someone

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Speaker 1: that that truly pours into your life and and and

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Speaker 1: just constantly on it on a daily basis, make you better,

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Speaker 1: push you to be better, and find ways to help

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Speaker 1: you be better. You gotta go. Wow, we appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: So all your young bucks, you've heard it from Thomas

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Speaker 1: and Thomas. We're running a little long, so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: turn this into two podcasts. It's been fantastic. This has

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Speaker 1: been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request

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Speaker 1: the topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at

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Speaker 1: NFL dot com. Cha