WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 118 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:02.920 Fo Zone Media. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.559 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.880 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.840 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:22.639 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.600 you can make your own decisions. Welcome to it could 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:32.800 happen here a podcast about things falling apart. And you know, folks, 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.199 season one of this, if you listened way back in 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.320 twenty nineteen, we focused a lot on my fears about 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.800 a massive coming civil conflict in the United States, you know, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.479 along the lines of a civil war, but sort of 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.080 based around my experiences in civil conflicts in Ukraine and 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.479 Iraq and Syria a number of other parts of the 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.440 world prior to twenty twenty. And one of the reasons 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.680 I'm bringing this up right now is because you know, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.720 what I experienced with the fighting in Isis in Iraq 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.479 was kind of instrumental in me understanding how conflict looked 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.399 in the modern era and how the United States was 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.360 closer to a conflict like that, then I think a 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.520 lot of folks would, normally, especially people who are kind 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.080 of obsessed with the idea of a civil war, as 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.720 two big armies in gray and blue marching at each other, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.800 we're willing to kind of to contend with. And when 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.320 I was starting that reporting over there, you know, taking 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.040 my first trips to Iraq, one of the first things 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.600 that I did was watch every Isis beheading video and 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.480 some of the Al Qaida in Iraq beheading videos prior 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.440 to that, not as a voyeuristic thing, but because I 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.480 felt like if I was going to take myself and 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.360 another person into that situation, the responsible thing to do 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.080 was make myself very informed of what the stakes were. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.160 And I'm bringing this all up not because we're talking 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.240 about the Middle East today, because we are talking about 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:58.600 a beheading video, probably the first beheading video directly tied 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.120 to the US CO Cuncture war that I can I 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.360 can name, and I'm gonna throw to Garrison Davis now. 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.160 All right, So last week, I believe most of this 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.400 went down. On January thirtieth, a thirty two year old 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.480 man named Justin Mohan shot his father in the head 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.520 with a handgun he bought the day previously, and then 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.720 used a kitchenknife and machete to allegedly again this is 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:28.960 all a quote unquote allegedly allegedly yes to allegedly. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.679 Alleged by him in the video that he recorded, Yes 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.840 cut off his father's head in a bathtub. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.639 He put it in a pot, and then recorded a 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.640 video which he posted publicly onto YouTube. It was about 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.680 fifteen minutes long titled Moan's Militia Called to Arms for 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.200 American Patriots, where he ranted about a number of things 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.080 and mostly called for the killing of federal employees. He fled. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.240 I think he went a slightly upstate towards a National 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.280 Guard training camp and then was arrested a few hours 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:06.360 later after his mother found the severed head and body 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.960 of her husband in the house that they all lived 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:13.840 in together. This is one of the most bizarre acts 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.280 of extremist violence that I've come across in terms of 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.000 like the amount of research I've done to this, and 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:25.120 I think it kind of points at a this trend 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.280 of extremist acts of violence done by people who have 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.640 a lot of content on the internet, not just like 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.000 posting manifestos, but like are positioning themselves as some form 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.360 of like alternative content creator. This guy had a lot 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.080 of music, had a lot of self published books. In 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.560 lieu of leaving like a complete single manifesto, we get 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:51.240 these just years of writing and like artistic creations that 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.960 now live on archive dot org as kind of ghosts 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:55.960 of this guy's presence. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.840 And I think what's interesting about that is that shift 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.240 between between and I think the christ Church shooter is 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.320 probably like the KT boundary of this particular evolutionary shift 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.640 from like the norm would be that you would produce 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.720 a specific manifesto as an act, like a political act, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.400 as part of whatever of active violence you carried, and 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.760 the goal was both to inspire other people to act 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.240 and to, you know, partly just to frame yourself as 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.160 something besides alone maniac. And I think one of the 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.240 things that's really interesting about this shift to an increasing 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.160 number of these people representing what they're doing in fiction 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.000 in some way or in some other kind of creative 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.240 endeavor is that it sort of mirrors the idea that like, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.719 in our culture, the thing that people most want to 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.479 be is some sort of like influencer content creator, Like 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.240 that's the top desired job among like a lot of 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.160 gen Z kids, and it's also just increasingly like the 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.440 thing that people creatively want to see themselves as, and 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:02.000 so like, I think this fits into this trend of violence, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.240 that is that is foreshadowed by someone, not by a 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.760 work of like political thought, you know, which you may 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.520 not want to think of a manifesto as that, but 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.800 that is what it is, but is preceded instead by art. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.040 Yeah, so I think I'll talk about a few kind 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.719 of semi similar or at least other cases that have 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.000 some curious linkages, probably close to the end of the episode, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.840 but I have some writing here prepared about the about 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.760 the beheading video itself, and then a few other kind 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.599 of random stuff about the art that he's made, and 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.240 Robert will probably fill in some useful gaps because Robert 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:45.280 acquired a very special piece of literature recently. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.680 So the night that this went down, as soon as 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.080 I found out this guy had written not just a book, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.719 but multiple books, I was like, well, I kind of 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.360 want to read these, and I know they're going to 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.760 get pulled by tomorrow and Amazon will probably Amazon can 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.400 just take back the kindle books that you buy from them, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.159 So I ordered a hard copy of the book that 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.680 seemed like the most meaningful to him. It's called The 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.560 Second Messiah, King of Earth by Justin Mohen. It is 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.640 distressingly thick, like four hundred and fifty pages or so. 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.640 It is so much book. And the weird thing about it, 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.000 I've read through a chunk of it, and we will 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.119 be getting to some of it. It's not badly written, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:28.599 and I want to be clear, I'm not saying that 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.640 like he's a good writer in the commercial sense, or 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.040 that he's a good writer in that like he's a 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.240 skilled artist. I'm saying that, like it's clear writing. You're 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.800 always sure what he's trying to say. When he depicts 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.440 the vinces happening. Those events are crazy, but like he's 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:48.400 they're clearly depicted, which is interesting to me. And yeah, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.680 we will be hearing about more of that in part too. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.839 But I have learned a decent amount about him from 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.160 this book, The Second Messiah King of Earth. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.719 So let's get into that fifteen minute video. He starts 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.960 by holding up what is alleged to be his father's 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.400 head inside a plastic bag. He holds up for a 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:11.560 few seconds and then starts talking. Now, my my initial 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:16.000 reaction to this video is just how unremarkable most of 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.080 this rant is. There's like calling for killing federal employees, 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.520 which is like the one thing people do that. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.800 But also you can hear so. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.120 Many of the sentiments that he talks about from Fox 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.640 News contributors, from popular right wing podcast hosts, and even 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.360 sitting politicians. They also talk about how quote America is 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.360 rotting from the inside out as far left woke mobs 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.080 rampage are once prosperous cities, turning them into lawless zones. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:43.680 Unquote. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.280 Yeah, use that term a lot, lawless zones. That's that 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.360 he's The term probably comes up like about ten times 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:51.600 across this whole video. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.480 And I want to I think we need to start 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.840 before we get further into this with the elephant in 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.320 the room, which is like a lot and what a 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.360 lot of people say about this guy, Well, this man 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.680 was mentally ill, and that is absolutely the case. You know, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.720 I add the disclaimer whenever we talk about mental illness 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.080 and mass shootings, people who are mentally ill, people who 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.600 are schizophrenic are not more likely to do this kind 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.560 of violence than anybody else. But that said, when they 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:22.040 do it, they're also not necessarily less responsible. And what 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.960 I mean by that is a person can be mentally 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.600 ill and engage in a shooting, and that doesn't mean 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.440 you shouldn't pay attention to what they are or another 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.120 act of violence. That doesn't mean you don't pay attention 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.360 to why they're saying they did it. The fact that 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.880 this guy is clearly I believe, schizophrenic does not mean 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.880 that his reasons for doing this are immaterial, because most 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.679 people who have whatever mental illness this guy did have 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.320 do not cut their dad's head off. So the fact 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.560 that he is justifying it with this very boilerplate set 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.280 of right wing culture war grievances is meaningful. And it's 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.960 meaningful because absent that influence in his life, perhaps he 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.400 either doesn't carry out an act of violence or it's 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.480 at least a very different looking one, And so I 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.640 think that is important to just get out to upfront. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.360 He certainly had years of experiencing paranoia, some conspiratorial thinking, 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:19.600 but specifically the ayre directed towards his own conception of 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.440 the federal government and how it is leading to society 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.679 decay is what sparked this act of violence and is 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.079 why he called for copycat killings. So yes, inside this rant, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.560 justin Mohan talks about taxes, inflation, and an economy that 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.920 no longer serves American citizens. He mentions how the traitorous 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.480 Biden regime is sending over American troops to fight in 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.920 a doomed war in the Russian winter, leaving America defenseless 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.720 against a quote fifth column army of illegal immigrants invading 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:50.000 our southern border to strike Americans on our own soil. Unquote. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.200 That's another term he uses a lot, fifth column. Yeah, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.160 probly says it like four or five times. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.199 And that's a very old term. That's a term that 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.840 you would hear in a lot of John Birch materially 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.240 the middle of the last century, you know. 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.600 So Moan identified himself as quote the commander of America's 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:10.880 National Network of Militias, also known as Moan's Militia, which 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.720 seems to be mostly a delusion. He had no known 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.640 connections to actual militias in his state or any other states. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:20.439 This seemed to be an idea that he got into 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.240 his own head. He then ordered all quote militias and 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.960 patriots across the country to quote hunt down and murder 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:32.360 every federal employee on site, and to sieze all courthouses, FBI, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.680 i rs, and federal law enforcement offices, to kill and 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.520 capture all border patrol, US marshals, federal agents and judges 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.400 and quote, torture them for information and publicly execute them 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:48.240 for betraying the country unquote. He had this, really, he 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.800 had this line that stuck out to me. I didn't copy. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:52.200 This is a long video. I did not copy every 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.040 single thing he said. He also is this is one 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.440 line he included, earn your place in heaven by sending 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:03.840 a traitor to hell early with just the cold, like, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.280 very like emotionless way. 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:06.800 He said. That kind of stuck with me. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:12.439 Yes, and that is not a belief that you have 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.440 to go to a guy experiencing mental health crisis to 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.680 find you can hear shades of this all over fucking Twitter, 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.000 among other places. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.600 Can you hear this if you listen to certain right 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.360 wingers give public comment like yeah, in your local city 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:29.280 council like it's not. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:31.840 So. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.680 Moan asked that police, veterans, and National Guard join the fight, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.960 or else cities like Philadelphia will turn into lawless zones 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.240 like Portland and San Francisco. He also asked local militias 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.080 to be his own personal security force so that federal 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.120 employees do not try to arrest him. 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:48.120 Yeah. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.160 He said that state governments should be left alone unless 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.000 they intervene. In his revolution, quote, the federal government is 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.839 the enemy. Then Mohne declared that quote, Joe Biden is 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.320 no longer in power. I am now officially the acting 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.599 president under martial law unquote. He ordered military generals to 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.880 not deploy US troops against US militias and instead join 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.800 their fight to defend the constitution. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.640 It would be fun if the constitution worked that way, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.160 if like they'd put that in back in seventeen eighty seven, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.839 like oh yeah, and if you know, if martial law 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.640 is declared. He's not around yet, but there's going to 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.679 be this guy just in Mode. He's a charge. So 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.320 this is one thing that I'm still slightly confused on. Well, 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.319 there's a few things that are obviously confusing. It seems confusing. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.439 But Mode offered a one million dollar bounty on a 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.680 number of high level federal US employees and one hundred 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.959 thousand dollars for every federal judge and even docksed one 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:50.079 in Pennsylvania. He claimed to currently have ten million dollars 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:55.959 to exhaust on these bounties, and that is not that's. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.440 Just not true. Yes, definitely not. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.160 Man constantly can plain about how he's in a poor 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.240 financial situation as a result of a number of factors. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.200 He does not have ten million dollars. Now, he ordered 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.640 all non military federal employees to resign before ending up 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.679 like his father. Now, his father was an employee at 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.560 the US Army Corps of Engineers for most twenty years. 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.280 He resigned, I think like last year or a few 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.200 years back. It's interesting he called for specifically non military 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.480 federal employees to resign. He was very pro military. I'm 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.880 not sure if his father working for the US Army 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.760 Corps Engineers exactly that fits in to his ideology here. 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.640 But we're not laying out a clear line of thinking. 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.240 Obviously it is. This is just slightly off topic. But 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:48.000 it's never not fascinating to me how strong the feeling 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.520 of emotional attachment to the US military is, Like that 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.040 even this guy would be like, this guy who was 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.760 so clearly deranged and violent about this kind of thing 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.400 would be like but they're the exception, Like there's obviously 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.760 still basically good. It's just interesting to me, what else 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.079 is interesting to me. Garrison is where our money comes from. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:08.880 And you know where our money comes from. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:10.720 The Federal Reserve. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:16.120 Yes, actually we are sponsored entirely, entirely by the Federal Reserve. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.640 So please, I mean literally, anything you do will I 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:34.960 guess help the Federal Reserve. So go exist in capitalism 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:35.880 and we're. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:41.400 Back speaking of another federal agency. One agency that Moan 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.360 addressed directly was calling for the Postal Service to suspend 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.120 all services split from the federal government or else he 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.640 will not be able to offer protection. And Jesus Christ, no, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.440 that's negotiating with the Postal Service. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.480 That's very funny. I mean, this is serious, but that 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.080 is kind of funny. This guy is into Nazi. He's 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:01.640 not a Nazi. 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.960 He is a He's an extremist. He is a he 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.480 is a conservative extremist. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.080 He does repeatedly in his book, by the way, also 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.360 talk about like racism being bad like that is like 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.720 very much a consistent through line. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.560 But some of this like kill your local postman type 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:26.040 stuff certainly reflects a strain of extrememist, neo Nazi thinking. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.680 That particularly James Mason's stuff from the eighties. Yes, so 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.760 he also said quote if the media spreads lives with 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.920 this revolution, I authorize the targeting of news stations, their 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:43.520 owners and employees general kind of conservative, anti anti news, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.040 anti journalist rhetoric. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:46.240 Quote. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.520 The hunting, capturing, and killing of America's federal employees will 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:54.080 not stop until americans demands are met and the network 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.600 of America's traders is wiped out unquote. Now, some of 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.840 these demands that he called for includes closing the borders, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.280 mass deportation of immigrants that have entered under the Biden regime, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.720 ceasing all human trafficking of children and sex slaves, which 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.600 is obviously already illegal, canceling all public debt, an end 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.040 to the Federal Reserve, restore Congress's right to print interest 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:23.080 free money. Oh, and and ceasing all of the quote 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:27.920 woke and gender ideology propaganda in the schools unquote. So 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.760 we have a weird mix of like very like libertarian 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.760 stuff like the federal reserve, interest free money, and then 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.920 other more popular conservative stuff around like the border, and 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.440 then this thing about woke and gender ideology. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.640 Yeah, there's even a little like nessah Jesra stuff in 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.560 there too, about like the whole like allow the government 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.440 to print interest free money again, like that's that's it's 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.400 interesting that that's mixed in tomatoe as well. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.200 Yeah, yeah, you know, it's a it's a curious collection 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:59.400 of political thought. Now, traders to the country included not 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.840 just federal employees, but also quote bribed members of the 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.639 deep state, labor racketeers of the prison industrial complex, and 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:11.280 globalist leaders of assorted industries unquote. Now there's there's a 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.960 lot to unpacked there. Bribe members of the deep state. 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.640 I think it doesn't need any explanation. But Moan had 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.639 this idea that labor unions were working with corporations to 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:28.679 make straight white males have a hard time to find jobs, 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.360 so they would so that they would always be unemployed, 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.480 and unemployment leads to people being arrested and sent to 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.159 prison as a way to fund the court system. So 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.679 this is what he means by labor racketeers of the 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.439 prison industrial complex. It's that labor unions are colluding with 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.280 the government and businesses to keep certain sects of the 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.199 population unemployed to fill up prisons. Now, in terms of 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.720 globalist leaders of assorted industries, he specifically was talking about 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.720 big tech companies that commit tax evasion. He claimed that 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.440 he used to work for Microsoft and witnessed massive time eccivation. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:02.680 I have not looked into that. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.960 I don't believe he will definitely do. Like, yeah, they 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:07.440 all do. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.000 It's not I don't think they break the law because 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:11.800 they have whole departments of people who are there to 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.120 make sure that at least they're not breaking the law 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.600 enough that it will matter. But like whatever, I mean again, 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:17.520 some of this does. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:18.480 Some of all. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.000 Grievances like this come from real things, like the corporations 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.480 like Microsoft that are tremendously wealthy do not pay their 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.800 fair share and in fact do a great deal to 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.880 allide their tax burden. He's just like, yeah, It's one 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.040 of the frustrating things about this is how all of 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.720 this actual malfeasance feeds into these delusions and feeds into 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.639 the conspiratorial narratives of the people that take advantage of 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.720 people like justin Yep. 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.280 He said that Marshal Law will continue as long as 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.600 Americans support him and until America is secured enough to 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.040 hold a legitimate election, and that Moan would authorize police 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.720 a military to use any force necessary to take back 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.520 because the city is from quote fifth column extremist organizations 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.560 such as the lgbt community, the BLM movement, and terrorist 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.240 organizations like Antifa. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:09.919 Unquote. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.639 This is where he went on a whole Antifa rant, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.960 saying Antifa is a part of the Federal government's systematic, 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.199 top down, globalist and communist takeover of America. Moan stressed 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.080 the importance of capturing alive quote one of the key 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.040 players involved in this treason, or else they will never 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.119 be able to discover the entire network of evil. Unquote. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:36.080 So Moan blamed Antifa, BLM, and the LGBTQ community for 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.760 stoking a division to create a race war and religious war. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.680 It's it's just it's it's it's it's hard to hold 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.600 to hold the justification of your You're accusing people of 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.359 stoking division as you're holding up the severed head of 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.560 your father. Like, there's just that a complete disconnect here. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:54.520 Quote. 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.880 The government has disallowed any peaceful solution. Violence is the 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.760 only solution to the Fed government's treason and the actions 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.600 of their fifth column terrorist organizations like Antifa. This is 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.360 an ideological and spiritual war unquote. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.959 Yeah, very similar in some ways to what McVeigh was saying, right, Like, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.560 this is the only way to communicate with the government. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.560 It's the only language that they understand. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:18.800 Yeah. 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:19.240 Yeah. 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.399 And then lastly, he kind of closes this video with 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.560 a further look into some of his own political delusions. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.520 He said that before the twenty twenty elections, electors and 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:34.160 campaign contributors from both parties said that they saw Justin 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.320 Mohan as the best candidate for the president of America. 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.520 He's thirty two years old. He was like twenty eight 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:41.879 back in twenty twenty. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:42.560 Quote. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.960 I could have been the first unanimously elected president, but 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.040 I was betrayed by the FBI, federal courts, and my 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.239 own family because there are people that believe I am 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:57.520 the Messiah, which goes against the government's satanic communist ideology. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.440 Quick note, if all of those groups didn't want you 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.920 to be president, how would you have been elected unanimously 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:06.600 or would the FBI have been like, well, now that 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.880 he's on the ballot, we got to vote for the guy. 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.359 So after saying there are many people that believe I 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.040 am the Messiah, he then said, quote, I would never 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.720 compare myself to Jesus Christ, unquote, which is not true. 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:20.439 He has many times. 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:21.960 Yeah, he sure has. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.680 You know, most notably in the title of his book 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.280 The Second Messiah, King of Earth by Justin Mohan. Yeah, 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.600 although that is about his self insert character who he 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.440 says lives a life identical to his named Buster moon. 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.400 Buster moon Uh huh. 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.840 And then I will do the last little bit about 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.199 this video. Quote, if there is a federal employee in 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.680 your family, make it your New Year's resolution to kill 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.560 them in order to protect your own children unquote home 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.000 and then Moan followed that by quoting from Matthew ten 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:56.840 twenty one. This is a verse in the New Testament. 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.960 Brothers and sisters will betray one another and have you 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.160 each other put to death. Parents will betray their own children, 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.800 and children will turn against their parents and have them 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.040 killed unquote. 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.720 It's interesting because I've heard that sided before, and usually 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.880 it was in like older conspiracies of the New World Order, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.600 and like, yeah, that's what they believed the evil anti 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.520 Christ you win regime was going to do to them. 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.159 It's fun to hear someone be like, that's what we 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.720 have to kill the families of the people who are. 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.840 I don't think that's what he's actually saying. He's saying 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.040 like he's talking about how he is felt betrayed by 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.880 his own family and by the government. 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.440 Oh gotcha, Okay, that makes sense. 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.160 This points to like this massive disconnect in his own head. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.760 This is the betrayal he's talking about. He is he 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.320 is using this verse as a reference to like the 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.040 end times, but he's saying like, this is the betrayal 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.919 that we're seeing and in response, now we have to 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:57.159 do this. So on, I'm going to quote from ABC 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:00.399 News here. So, the US Marshall Service investigated Moan in 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.040 August or twenty twenty three after he allegedly made a 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.600 threat against a U. S. District Court judge. The case 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.840 was closed that same month. He was reported to police 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.800 pretty frequently for his bizarre behavior in his own neighborhood, 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.000 like sitting on manhole covers and staring at houses for 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:18.359 hours on end. Now Mon has held CONSPIRATORI and anti 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.480 government views for at least seven years and attempted to 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.400 recruit people to join his Moan's militia on Reddit and Discord, 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.359 though no one seemed to join, and then at least 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:32.240 one Discord server threw him out because of his repeated 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:37.080 recruitment attempts and after fleeing home after he posted that video, 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.640 he drove more than one hundred miles north and broke 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.119 into the Pennsylvania National Guard base with a gun, and 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.679 then was arrested after he was tracked there on his 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:49.200 cell phone. There is a song that Justin wrote about 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.480 three years ago about being arrested after being tracked on 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:55.359 his cell phone after doing violence against his family. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:57.520 You think he would have like not had a cell 0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:59.359 phone on him, given that he was aware of that 0:23:59.400 --> 0:23:59.960 as a risk. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.359 But I don't know if he was really thinking large 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:04.600 like yeah, if you watch the video, like he like 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.520 he thinks National Guard is going to like join him, Yeah, 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:07.840 he's not. 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:10.480 He's not thinking about it that way. 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.840 So yeah, I believe mon is published at this point 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:19.280 nine books. I'm going to read from his his Amazon 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:23.560 about page. Justimona is the author of seven books now nine, 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.720 and a musician of three albums and one single. His 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.160 life story is unbelievable and there may not be enough 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.560 words to describe him, but one may begin to understand 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.760 his complexity and experiences through his art. He only wishes 0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:40.600 to bring positive change to the world. Now I will 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:42.920 I will talk about some of those some of those 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.520 other books after we take a quick ad break here 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.800 and learn about some important messages from our sponsors. 0:24:49.160 --> 0:25:00.640 Yeah. 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:06.040 So justin Mohan's bibliography, here we go. So I think 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:08.440 Robert has one of his books, The Second Messiah, King 0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:11.440 of Earth. Yeah, there is many other books he's published, 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:11.919 including a. 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:13.720 Book Startling Number. 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.480 A book called The Pink, a book called Poems I 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:20.000 Wrote Well Stoned, a collection of poems they will burn, 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:25.680 this book, The Punishing America's Coming Bloody Revolution, The Kingdom 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.840 of Darkness, dark Ages of the Future, a collection of 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:35.080 short stories, and finally, The Revolution Leader's Survival Guide. How schools, workplaces, 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:38.080 and social norms kill the genius inside us. 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:42.600 All not bad at titling, you know, so pretty pretty effective. 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:43.639 Good good for SEO. 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:45.119 I'm on board. 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.479 Let's start with that last book here, The Revolution Leader's 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:53.560 Survival Guide. It targets the quote constraints against education, creativity, 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:57.399 and human progress throughout history unquote, and the book is 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.320 mostly about Mohan's own inability to find a high paying 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.000 enough job after college. This is a reoccurring trend in 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:07.040 a lot of his books, including I Believe the one 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:11.480 that Robert has. Mon complains about student loans, how America's 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:14.199 education system is faulty, and talks about being bullied in 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:17.639 school as a kid. I'm going to quote from the 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:20.919 book subscription. The author views the world on the brink 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:24.119 of either a golden age of world peace and space colonization, 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.600 or instead a second dark age of global wars and 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:31.119 depopulation within the next couple of decades, if not sooner. 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.080 Included within the book is a transcript of a letter 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:37.639 Justin Mohan wrote to Donald Trump, warning that if America 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:41.080 does not go under some great changes, Moan himself will 0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:44.840 have to lead a peaceful revolution. In another book titled 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.880 The Kingdom of Darkness, published on May thirteenth, twenty twenty, 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.320 it's a novel about Satan and fallen angels becoming quote 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:55.480 trapped inside Earth's slowliest creatures after being banished from heaven. 0:26:56.359 --> 0:26:58.800 He has a whole bitch of other like fantasy and 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:04.320 sci fi type books like aliens space exploration, a weird 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.520 collection genre. In a pamphlet he self published on Amazon 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:11.280 in August of twenty twenty titled America's Coming Bloody Revolution, 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:16.520 The small book contains two chapters, one titled why a 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:21.520 violent revolution is inevitable and a second titled How revolution 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:25.879 can be successful, Moan wrote, quote, Americans will have to 0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:29.280 weigh what is worse allowing themselves to lose freedom and 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:35.040 independence or killing their own family members, teachers, workers, bosses, judges, 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:40.320 elected leaders, and other older generations unquote. This is where 0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:45.360 we get a lot of predictive writing around what he's 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:49.359 going to be doing. Mohne described older generations as quote 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.639 traders who wished to to take away the freedom and 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:56.760 independence that comes with America democracy and free market capitalism. 0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:01.920 Which leads me then to the book that Robert has, 0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.840 The Second to Messiah, which was published in January of 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.679 twenty twenty. It's about a man named Buster Moon who 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:11.639 moves from Ohio to Colorado and quote painfully learns the 0:28:11.680 --> 0:28:15.399 dark secret of Colorado from everything containing satanic cults, the 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:18.520 Democratic Party, and the Cold War. Now we will get 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:21.840 more into this book, specifically in a later episode. I'm 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:23.800 going to read a little bit from the back cover. 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:27.200 The only thing more absurd in this fiction book is 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:29.240 the fact that it's loosely based on the life of 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.280 author and musician Justin Mohan, whose four years stay in 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.919 Colorado caused multiple lawsuits changed the possible outcome of the 0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:39.720 twenty twenty US presidential election by exposing three presidential candidates 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.040 as corrupt, which forced them to drop out of the race. 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:46.920 We have more of these presidential delusions that he was 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.160 talking about at the end of his beheading video here, 0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:53.760 and in terms of how this mirrors, like I said, 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:55.640 we'll learn more about this book later, but I will 0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.720 talk now some about his actual personal life, which will 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.800 then become slightly reflect did in the book, like going 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.920 to Colorado Springs. He graduated from Penn State with a 0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:08.440 business management degree and sued the federal government multiple times 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:10.240 for letting him take out student loans that he was 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:12.960 forced to pay back. The most recent case was last year, 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.800 where he sued for ten million dollars because despite getting 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:18.240 a degree with the loans, he was unable to quote 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:21.680 find a satisfactory job as an over educated white man 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.719 to repay the loan, claiming that he was a victim 0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:29.480 of affirmative action and reverse discrimination unquote. In a previously 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:32.440 dismissed lawsuit against the Department of Education, he alleged that 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:36.480 they neglectfully and fraudulently induced him to borrow money to 0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:38.600 pay for his education without sufficiently warning him of the 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:40.680 possibility that he would face a difficult job market and 0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:43.880 could be unable to pay back his student loan. So 0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:47.920 Mohan did move to Colorado, just like Buster Moon about 0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:51.080 ten years ago, eventually getting a job at Progressive Insurance, 0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:53.920 but was fired in twenty seventeen for kicking down a 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:57.360 door and quote breaking the company's code of conduct. Moan 0:29:57.480 --> 0:29:59.920 then sued Progressive in twenty nineteen for not receiving PROMI 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.640 motions because he was a man. In his Violent Revolution pamphlet, 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:05.880 Man claims that he was a victim of discrimination from 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:10.280 quote being a top performing, over educated, and overqualified male 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:14.400 employee unquote, and in that same pamphlet, Mohan wrote that 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.720 his educational, employment and legal issues are evident that there 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:21.040 is quote no peaceful solution for the youth to escape 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:26.160 debt based enslavement, unemployment, and ultimately imprisonment. He compared his 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.920 experience to quote the Soviet unions feared goolog prison labor 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.680 system and in which entire states and countries were essentially 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:37.120 turned into concentration camps. Mohan wrote that educators and parents 0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:40.440 who quote knowingly lie, brainwash and dumb down their youth 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.920 unquote must be killed to prevent the spread of quote 0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:48.400 globalized communism. And corporate agendas. This is where we have 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:52.200 an interesting combination of like anti communism fears but also 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:54.520 anti corporatism that you see in some sects of like 0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:55.880 libertarian conservatism. 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:56.720 You sure do. 0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:00.360 He claims that communism is like a virus and that 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.680 America must treat it like a virus. Quote the only 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.480 logical way to do so is for every American born 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:10.280 in nineteen ninety one or later to kill anyone born 0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:11.960 before nineteen ninety one. 0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:17.600 Unquote. Well now he's cooking, Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:19.640 back on board. I'm back on board. You know, this 0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:22.120 could work. So it just so happens. Said that was 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:26.040 the year that he was born. Uh huh yeah, yeah. 0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.520 Logical logical point to divide it on. I'd respect it 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:31.280 more if he'd been born earlier, you know. But so 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:33.800 I already mentioned some of his music. It had similar 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:38.240 predictive elements of he was doing art in almost like 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.120 in practice of what he was then going to later 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:43.040 do in person in terms of carrying of violence, as 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.760 well as just evident of kind of delusional and paranoid thinking. 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:48.440 He has a song about being gang stocked. He has 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:51.200 a song about I Think like a girlfriend who broke 0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:53.600 up with him. He has songs talking about how it's 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.280 okay to kill communists and how we're overall seeing a 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:01.400 decline in American society. So that that is most of 0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:03.000 what I have to say about Justin Moune. I could 0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:06.160 certainly say a whole lot more now on top of 0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:09.960 my research onto him himself. I also wanted to look 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:13.160 at the sort of online chatter that neo Nazis and 0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:18.280 other extremists were saying, and I put together, hey, a 0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:23.640 large catalog of telegram conversations about Justin Moune, watching the 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.640 spread of certain conspiracy theories around this incident, and just 0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:29.240 to see what their overall take was. Will I will 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:33.520 paraphrase my eighty page research document here by saying, it 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.040 seems most Nazis and other white supremacists or far right 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.520 extremists thought that the Justin Moone incident was quote fake 0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:45.880 and gay unquote. They tend to keep up with these 0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:49.560 these thought fluencers, really glad that they're kidding some of 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:51.040 their side. 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:55.760 Many other far right extremists took this to be a syop. Sure, 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:57.920 they thought it was an attempt to push forward this 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:00.520 anti militia bill. That's being talked about as well as 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:03.400 distract from the crisis at the southern border. Certain white 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:07.680 pharmacists were upset that he used the phrase to Judeo 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:12.680 Christian values because they are anti Semitic and Justin Moone 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:17.120 did not seem to be consciously anti Semitic. Yeah, and 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.160 had we had. These conspiracy theories travel everywhere, from standard 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:25.440 kind of neo Nazi telegram accounts to more conservative Boomer 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.000 Mega type stuff as well, mostly picking up on the 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:32.440 on the on the anti militia angle, how this is 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.320 probably a syop from the deep state to push forward 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:40.080 this anti militia bill. Some people thought thought they were 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:42.960 very clever in realizing this was a syop because they 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.040 thought justinmone was thirty three years old. And there's this 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:47.680 conspiracy theory around the number thirty three in a lot 0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:50.520 of these circles, the conspiracies around how the number thirty 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:52.920 three is used a lot in like mass shooting incidents. 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.440 Now it's not this is just pattern recognition, but also 0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:59.000 mon isn't thirty three, he's thirty two. So great, great 0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:02.280 work there. And there's specifically one telegram channel that found 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:04.240 a prop head I believe on Etsy. 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:07.840 Yeah, like a prop severed head. 0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:11.440 Yeah, we started seeing this spread all over Twitter, conservative 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.120 news sites. How this has to be fake because look 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.439 we found we found the fake head they used, which 0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:19.399 is quite simply not the severed head that Justin Moan's 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.359 holding up in the video. I don't think it's really 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:25.319 much useful else to say about these conspiracy theories, but yeah, 0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:28.040 they certainly were kind of laughing along at some of 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:31.279 like the gang Stocker e elements, thinking, you know, some 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:34.400 people obviously thought he was based and cool for actually 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.200 doing some of the ideological things that these Nazis believe in. 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.160 Others thought it was it's just fun to make fun 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:43.720 of a guy, so they decided it was a syop. Yeah, 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:46.120 that is That is most of what I had to 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:47.000 say about Justin Mohan. 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:52.359 Well, this has been quite an inspiring journey. We are 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.920 going to have more to say about Justin and finally 0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:59.440 get into his book, The Second Messiah, King of Earth, 0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:03.080 which is and in a way become my Bible. I 0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:06.080 think I may I may keep this in my apocalypse 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:07.680 go bag, so I can do like a book of 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:10.400 Eli with this thing. If the world ends, just be 0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:15.480 wandering alone across the wasteland telling everybody about this man's book. 0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:16.760 I guess. 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.200 Finally, the last thing I'll say is that this reminds 0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:22.280 me of two recent incidents. We had one mass shooting 0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:26.239 done by a Nazi in Denver, Colorado, and he previously 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:30.040 wrote and made short films depicting the murder that he 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:33.480 would then do. We also had the Highland Park shooting 0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:36.600 on July fourth a few years back. Who the person 0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:39.200 who did that created a lot of music online in 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:41.760 this very like I would say the Highland Park music 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.640 was much more in like the Schizowave genre of extremist content. 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:46.960 I think the stuff, the stuff that Justin Mohan is 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:50.000 producing is honestly more like the stuff that schizo wave 0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:53.560 is like parodying, Like Justin Moans was a lot more 0:35:54.400 --> 0:35:57.280 like sincere, less less ironic. 0:35:57.719 --> 0:35:57.839 Uh. 0:35:58.239 --> 0:35:59.359 It was, it was, it was. 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.160 It was just like taking at face value these two 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:04.759 instances I was reminded of just because of how much 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:09.279 those acts of violence were predated by artistic expressions of 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.200 the later thing that they would end up doing. And yeh, 0:36:12.200 --> 0:36:14.400 in Mohane's case, it's exactly the same. He has written 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:17.719 about killing family members, He's written about the exact way 0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:20.319 he would be arrested and tracked down writing that goes 0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:23.560 back like four or five years. This is there's so 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.080 many people online who have exact who are in this 0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:28.320 same scenario, who are putting out this type of writing. 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:30.919 No one knows who they are. Moan had like five 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:34.440 listeners on Spotify. These people are unknown, and every once 0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:36.560 in a while one of them decides that writing about 0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:38.360 it isn't enough and they actually do it in the 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:42.280 real world. And it's just this, it's this interesting trend 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:47.319 of these people like almost like hyperstitioning these own acts 0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:51.080 of violence by making art that predates it, almost in 0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:52.520 some form of like preparation. 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:53.720 Yeah. 0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:57.160 Yeah, And we talked about hyperstition as a concept a 0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.560 bit in last weeks Behind the Bastards, but it is 0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:04.040 it is a term for essentially the methods and ways 0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:07.719 by which things that are fictional become real. And it 0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:12.520 can be kind of as esoteric as the idea of 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:17.000 like preparing the way for a godlike AI by like 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.319 spreading belief and that sort of thing, or it can 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:23.239 be as direct, like as this as somebody envisioning the 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.359 acts they're going to carry out in fiction and then 0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:30.640 carrying out those acts for real, like it on an 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:33.239 individual level, what you're doing when you're doing this is 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.799 you're kind of you are preparing yourself mentally for the 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:39.279 thing that you're going to do. And when I would 0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:43.239 sort of lecture and talk about what to how to 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:46.319 know something is like a real threat versus somebody saying 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:48.239 shit on the internet, because that's obviously that's a real 0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:51.640 problem when we talk about this, there's a huge quantity 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:55.560 of people saying stuff that could be them presaging like 0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:59.720 an act of violence, and you simply can't go after everything. 0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:02.640 One of the key things for me always is what 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:05.680 have they gone and done anything in the real world. 0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:08.360 So for example, if a guy has like been going 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:11.520 out and like egging homeless people or like lighting their 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:15.720 shit on fire, and is also talking about murdering homeless people, 0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:18.640 well that's probably a guy who's going to do something 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.680 right because he's actively going out in the real world 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:24.640 and taking steps. He's prepping himself. And I think this 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.720 kind of work. When somebody's written a whole novel about 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:30.759 their murder fantasies, obviously that's not a thing you can 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:33.279 invest your convict on, but like nor should it be. 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.880 But that is somebody who is doing more than bullshitting online. 0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:39.959 That's somebody who has a fixation that they clearly can't 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.440 get over, and those do sometimes lead to violence. And 0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:46.840 so yeah, I think I think it's really valid to 0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:51.560 look at this as not just a couple of incidents 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:54.080 that are troubling, but as evidence of a troubling trend. 0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:59.040 Yep, all right, well that does a frustrating comment. Yeah, 0:38:59.360 --> 0:38:59.920 all right. 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:02.760 Please do not earn your place in heaven by sending 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:05.360 a trader to hell early. It does not need to 0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:06.160 work out very well. 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:08.759 No, earn your place in heaven. Uh. 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:12.319 I don't actually have a joke to finish this episode with. 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:13.719 Don't don't commit murder? 0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:28.360 Bye? 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:36.400 Oh, Welcome back to Podcast Man Sad, Bad People, the 0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:40.400 podcast about bad people that make the podcast Man Sad. 0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.960 I'm the podcast Man Robert Evans, and my co host 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:47.600 today is our friend Garrison Davids. Garrison, how are you 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:52.320 doing good? I thought it was one of my better intros. 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:57.000 It was unfortunately quite good for a topic about it's 0:39:57.000 --> 0:39:58.359 abensively deranged shit. 0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:02.160 Yeah yeah, So obviously this is part two of our 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:07.600 series on Justin Mohan, the author of our first politically. 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:13.920 The author first, just as author better known for his 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:14.720 other work. 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.799 Yeah, I think people should know that. When you make 0:40:17.880 --> 0:40:20.040 that joke, as you did the other week on Behind 0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:24.480 the Bastards Too, you are referring to a mathematics paper 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:30.160 that cites the Unibomber's other published mathematic theories. Is like 0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:33.880 better known for his other work mailing bombs to people? 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:35.120 Oh, pretty funny. 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:40.080 Yeah, And like the Unabomber, Justin Mohan is deeply accomplished, 0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:41.799 as in all he's written more books than I have. 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.520 Well, yes, that is true. 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:48.080 I'm not sure if you want to be writing the 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:50.880 types of books that Justin is but yeah. 0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:52.560 No, but but he did write them, and you get 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:54.319 credit for that. Sure. 0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:57.840 So this was, as you stated last episode, published in 0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:01.319 twenty twenty, and I I need to start with the 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:04.320 cover of this thing, because it's it's something else. 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:05.799 We see, not a good cover. 0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:10.480 No, it is taken. He appears to have taken it 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:14.240 or someone else took it from of him very close 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:17.280 up at a rest stop. And this is relevant because 0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.960 rest stops play a critical critical role in some of 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:23.360 his beliefs about the world and some of his theories 0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:26.320 about things that have happened to us. Yes, rest stops 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:30.280 are happening places for Justin Mohan. Okay, he is looking 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:32.680 behind him, He's like slightly disheveled. He's got like his 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:37.080 shirt open weirdly down like a button further than. 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:39.320 Yeah, I'm basically gang stocking vibes here. 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:42.520 Yeah, it's very much. Again, we'll explain gang stocking in 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:44.920 a second. But the pictures him, he's like looking behind 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:48.120 his shoulder. There's like two big lights behind him in 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:51.000 the distance in this photo, clearly taking it a rest stop. 0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:54.080 And then there are like cartoon text bubbles over his 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.279 shoulder next to the lights that say get his picture, Hey, 0:41:57.480 --> 0:42:01.000 there he is, and then like cartoon action bubbles that 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:03.080 say snap, snap, that I think are supposed to represent 0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:04.520 people taking photos taking pictures. 0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:06.160 Yeah, yeah, okay this. 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:08.160 As soon as I saw this, I had the same 0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:09.640 reaction you had, which is like, oh, this is some 0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:12.720 gang stocking shit. And if you're not aware of gang stocking, 0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:18.560 gang stocking is kind of an er web two point 0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:23.359 zero conspiratorial belief system. I don't know if a conspiracy 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.040 theory is even really the right way to frame it. 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:27.640 Gang Stalking is people who have I think these are 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.759 generally people with schizophrenia, and one of the things that 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:33.880 you can experience with schizophrenia is both this kind of 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:38.640 overwhelming sense of paranoia and also the stereotypical hearing voices right, 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:43.240 and some people become convinced that they are being followed. 0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:45.680 You know, this is something that has happened probably as 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:47.799 long as that it has existed, that they are being 0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:49.640 like tracked, that they are people who are listening in 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:52.759 on their thoughts. You hear variations of it. With the 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.319 internet and digital communities, A chunk of people experiencing this 0:42:57.000 --> 0:43:01.560 started forming communities online, and I don't know the exact 0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:04.160 I don't know if anyone has sort of like sketched 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:08.160 out how this happened in time, but the belief they 0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:10.359 ended up at is that certain people are what are 0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:14.440 called targeted individuals within the community, and those people are 0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:17.880 being stalked at all times by large numbers of generally 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:22.120 government spies. Now when I say government spies, they are 0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:25.280 not envisioning like a James Bond type operator. They believe 0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:28.279 these are the regular people in the street around them, 0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:31.760 like people in their neighborhood. Their neighbors are all spies 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:33.880 and are all stalking them all the time. And you 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.800 can watch hours of videos. These people will often film 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:39.239 eight hours of their life at a stretch, and you 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:42.520 can see them just like angrily shouting at their window 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:44.879 at like some dude walking past their house or whatever, 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:46.560 or like a car. You like see that blue cars 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:49.160 past three times, and that wouldn't happen if this wasn't 0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:52.960 like that. And it's so one of the things that like, 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.080 one of the reasons that gang Stocking is kind of 0:43:56.280 --> 0:43:59.319 interesting and valuable to study if you're interested in, like 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:02.040 how we got to our present moment of like reality 0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:04.680 collapse in the United States, is that this is an 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:07.719 example of kind of feelings that have been associated with 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:10.680 certain mental illnesses. I'm not going to say it's just schizophreny, 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:14.480 but certain mental illnesses bring about severe bouts of paranoia 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:16.799 and a feeling that you are being stalked right or 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:18.600 people who are listening in on your thoughts or whatever. 0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:22.759 Because of the way digital communities work, a number of 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.840 people experiencing this were able to not just get together 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:29.400 and share their experiences, but convince each other that they 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:31.080 were not the result of an illness and are in 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:33.160 fact the result of a conspiracy. And they have now 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:36.319 built a mythos around that conspiracy, and it has led 0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:39.319 to killings before. People have killed folks they believed were 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:42.560 stalking them over gang stalking delusions. It's been happening for years. 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:44.680 So yeah, that was the first thing that occurred to 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:47.120 me when I saw this cover. And you can find 0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:49.919 other art that Moan put out where it's like real 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.719 pictures of him and then fake art of like ghostly 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:55.360 figures stalking him with cameras and stuff. 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:55.960 Yeah. 0:44:57.200 --> 0:44:59.319 A few months before he released his book, he put 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:02.920 out a song that's I called the Justin's Stalkers about 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:03.720 being gang stocked. 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:04.480 Yeah. 0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:09.120 Yeah, and again, gangstock is not a political conspiracy theory 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:11.400 other than that you have to believe the government's evil, 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:13.640 but don't we all right, So it's very accessible. 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:18.359 There's certain gangstalking people who think they're like the Freemasons 0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:20.360 are stocking here, like the Illuminati is stalking. 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:22.440 It's like random Antifa, you know. 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:26.000 And sure, yeah, shit gets grafted on as a result 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:28.400 of politics, but it did not inherently start as something 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:30.799 that was like a political thing, just kind of out 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:33.719 of this very ex filesy because the nineties is really 0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:36.640 when this starts to form. I think late nineties. 0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:39.160 And it's spread like wildfire are on. Like early Internet culture, 0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:41.719 people were able to convince each other or like yeah, 0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:45.000 have have their alreadies, like like a small delusion be 0:45:45.080 --> 0:45:48.080 strengthened and grown stronger by other people in this community, 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:49.919 all kind of encouraging each other. 0:45:50.320 --> 0:45:52.200 And I think it's relevant too that it's kind of 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.759 a Web two point zero early Web two point oh phenomenon, 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:57.759 because I don't think you get the same thing, and 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:59.040 I'm not going to say that what you would get 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.160 would be any healthier, but from the social media, because 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:05.920 the way most social media works is everyone's kind of 0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:08.440 in a big pit together, and this was really the 0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:12.239 result of a kind of community that was closed to outsiders, 0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:14.800 that wasn't really being watched by people who weren't drawn 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:17.840 to it, building a culture in people like really, it 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.280 takes a lot of time for that to happen. Obviously, 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:23.640 YouTube is also a big place where this has grown, 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:26.279 but I think after it had its roots established that 0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:27.680 was a bit of a digression. But I think it 0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:30.799 is kind of necessary because this is definitely that is 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:33.640 definitely where justin comes out of you know, like that 0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:35.719 is very clear to me. All of this is kind 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:38.840 of rooted fundamentally in Gang Stocking. I think that's like 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:43.640 the foundational keystone belief in what has become his like 0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:48.160 conspiratorial milieu. So into the book itself, the first page, 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.120 after the page that lets us all know Kindled direct 0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:54.839 publishing this responsible for this thing, says book Love. 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:56.160 Kindles right publish it. 0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:59.319 Thanks, Amazon the best place to find all of the 0:46:59.400 --> 0:46:59.919 wild extra. 0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:02.480 Otherwise, never never. 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.520 Make They've they've really done us all a solid. This 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.920 book is dedicated to those who know who the real 0:47:08.040 --> 0:47:12.200 enemy is and can still laugh even in the worst situations. Hope, 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:15.160 I don't know what I have that describes me. Yeah, 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:19.560 it's great. So there are ten chapters in this thing. 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:23.040 They are long chapters. Chapter one is thirty two pages, 0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:27.840 Chapter two is almost sixty pages, Jesus. Chapter three is 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:31.359 like another sixty pages, like fifty pages for five. Yeah, 0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:34.480 these are like long, long chapters. And yeah, it's about 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:35.920 four hundred and fifty pages. 0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:36.600 Wow. 0:47:36.640 --> 0:47:40.239 So chapter one opens and I'm just gonna read you 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:42.960 actually a decent little chunk here. So it starts with 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.280 like him talking to his parents, But why leave Buster, 0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:50.080 You're a hometown hero, Missus Moon said. Missus Moon in 0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:52.520 her late fifties, paced back and forth on the hardwood 0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:55.680 floor of the living room. Yeah, Buster, you're popular. You 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:57.520 were at the top of your class in high school, 0:47:57.560 --> 0:47:59.719 you were a star athlete. You can end up mayor 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.520 of this town someday. Why don't you stay around here 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.040 where everyone knows you and see what happens. You'll have 0:48:05.080 --> 0:48:08.680 to start a new elsewhere, mister Moon said. And obviously, 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:14.080 Buster Moon is are the actual justin Mohan And we're 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:16.040 talking about his parents, and when we talk about mister Moon, 0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:17.440 this is his dad who he. 0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:19.840 Murdered and beheaded. Just you know, keep that in mind. 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:22.879 Mister Moon, in his early sixties, sat on a couch 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:25.080 in the living room watching television. A black and white 0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:27.600 episode of The Twilight Zone was on. The sound on 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.800 the TV was muted. That's the point. I want to 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:32.759 start anew I want to meet new people, or at 0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:34.799 least not associate with the people I grew up with 0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:36.600 and went to school with my whole life. They're all 0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:38.879 going nowhere in town, and they'll take me down with them. 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:41.200 And we get a little more of that where like 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:43.560 he's talking about why he wants he's not happy here. 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:45.880 There's no future for him. What's interesting to me is 0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:49.759 why he depicts and we don't know that this is 0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:52.759 accurate to his experience with his parents. But also I 0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:56.600 don't necessarily think it is not, because what he depicts 0:48:56.640 --> 0:48:59.480 his parents as saying is he shouldn't do this because 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:03.440 it's danger Leaving home is dangerous. You can't be safe 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:05.440 on your own in a new place or in the city, 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:09.120 and you will inevitably get murdered or have something horrible happen. 0:49:09.560 --> 0:49:12.520 He puts these words in his dad's mouth right after 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:15.160 he like, first his mom tells him, like, you're gonna 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:17.080 die if you move out, and then he puts this 0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:19.760 in his dad's mouth, Yeah, you're going to get kidnapped, 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:22.480 addicted to heroin, and sold into a sex trafficking rink. 0:49:22.520 --> 0:49:24.400 Then five years from now, we'll find pictures of you 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.000 bound and gagged on some Russian website where you're up 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.440 for sale. So that's his dad, and then his mom ads, 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:31.680 why do you think your older siblings stayed within Ohio 0:49:31.719 --> 0:49:34.000 when they moved out. It's dangerous out of state without 0:49:34.000 --> 0:49:38.720 your family. So maybe that's just him putting words. 0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:39.040 In their mouth. 0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:42.040 But like, I have heard stuff like that from people 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:46.400 that is not an uncommon thing to express, especially among 0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:50.840 conservative families. Cities are dangerous, people are getting human trafficked 0:49:50.880 --> 0:49:53.360 all the time. It's not safe to be out on 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:54.160 your own. 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.799 And those are some things he talked about in his 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:02.920 beheading video. And yeah, I know that after he had 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.439 to move back home from Colorado after losing his job, 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:08.600 he did move back in with his parents in Pennsylvania. Yep, 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:11.160 he does have an older sister that just ran in 0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:14.359 other things. I know his actual personal life and how 0:50:14.360 --> 0:50:15.680 they could maybe tie in. 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:18.760 But yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you know, a little 0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:21.880 bit later, as this argument goes on, there is a 0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:23.600 note where his mom's like, maybe it would be for 0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:25.759 the best if we took you to a psychiatrist. Buster, 0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:27.200 you don't seem to be thinking straight. 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:28.680 Interesting. Unclear to me if. 0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:30.360 They did, but I think that does kind of suggest 0:50:30.400 --> 0:50:33.640 that was a thing his parents suggested often. And then 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:36.359 his dad says, yeah, you're talking crazy, Buster. If someone 0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:38.080 doesn't mug you when you step out of the car, 0:50:38.160 --> 0:50:40.160 you'll end up running out of money and being homeless, 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:42.759 and then you'll get put in prison for panhandling, trespassing 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:45.360 or stealing food and ended up making prison love to 0:50:45.400 --> 0:50:49.360 Bubba the butcher, and that has the feeling of something 0:50:49.400 --> 0:50:53.680 that he heard before. That that's pretty specific, like that 0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:56.759 sounds like something somebody was told and is kind of 0:50:56.800 --> 0:50:59.640 repeating here. You know, I don't know that, but that 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:02.160 is very much the feel it has. And there's a 0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:05.759 couple other bits where it's like, I could see this 0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:09.840 being something you heard from your very conservative family or 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.080 elsewise picked up in the media. Because there's another point 0:51:12.080 --> 0:51:14.319 where his dad is like, you'll be all alone and 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:17.800 they know exactly how much money you have. It's all digital. 0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:21.520 You can't beat the system. You can't beat dot dot dot. 0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:25.440 And then in italics the machine missus Moon shot a 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:26.400 white eyed glance. 0:51:26.160 --> 0:51:26.799 At mister Moon. 0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:29.800 Huh, what do you mean, buster said, Mister Moon shook 0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:32.759 his head. Oh, nothing, you'll have to find out for yourself. 0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:36.319 And then at this point a cow screams. That's how 0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:39.839 he describes the cow as screaming. And then their dog 0:51:39.880 --> 0:51:42.760 barks and they all run outside. It's clear that something 0:51:42.760 --> 0:51:45.640 has gone wrong, and mister Moon says, aw, hell not again, 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:49.600 those cult fucking commie bastards. He grabs a shotgun and 0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:52.960 there they find the ex sanguinated and skinned corpse of 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:54.879 the family cow outside in the. 0:51:54.880 --> 0:51:58.560 Yard because they're at like a farm in Ohio, I believe. 0:51:58.400 --> 0:52:01.400 Yeah, they're at like the family. So he thinks at 0:52:01.440 --> 0:52:04.320 first that this hide as a carpet. Then Buster realized 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:06.359 the carpet had black and white spots like a cow 0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:09.680 and was hide material. The cow had been completely exsanguinated, 0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:12.440 as the livestock industry would call an animal drained of blood. 0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:14.759 The cow's eyes were missing, the bones were strewn in 0:52:14.800 --> 0:52:17.759 a perfect circle around the cowhide in an almost ritualistic 0:52:18.000 --> 0:52:20.360 or ceremonial manner, with a skull at the top of 0:52:20.360 --> 0:52:22.600 the circle. Will twelve would be on a clock about 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:24.759 the same time it was. Then there was not one 0:52:24.840 --> 0:52:26.200 drop of blood near the scene. 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:27.520 Huh. 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:29.480 Now, when I brought up x files earlier, that's kind 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:31.440 of why, because that's x files stuff. 0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.200 That's a very x files opening up. The Twilight Zone 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:36.160 was playing on the TV in the room in the scene. 0:52:36.239 --> 0:52:37.399 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And. 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:39.640 This is all obviously, by the way, if you listen 0:52:39.719 --> 0:52:41.160 to a lot of or read a lot of like 0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:45.960 this particularly kind of turn of the last century UFO stuff, 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:48.799 a lot of it focuses on animals being exanguinated, right, 0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:51.239 cows killed in these like weird fashions. Now he is 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:54.480 talking about a ritual murder. And also the timing doesn't 0:52:54.480 --> 0:52:56.440 work out because they hear the cow run outside and 0:52:56.440 --> 0:52:59.120 it's been completely skin and excite. But well, I think 0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:01.600 what's important is it's like you get an idea of 0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.440 like this didn't come into his mind unbidden. Right, the 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:07.840 term exsanguinated as referred to a cow's corpse had not 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:09.440 come into his mind and bidden. That's evidence of like 0:53:09.440 --> 0:53:10.719 the kind of media diety had. 0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:10.960 Right. 0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.480 I mean he was born in nineteen ninety one, that's like, yeah, 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.040 that's prime growing up with the XPS. 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:20.520 Oh absolutely, yeah. I mean I'm not that much older 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:22.360 than him, and that was definitely a big part of 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:23.120 my childhood. 0:53:23.320 --> 0:53:23.560 Yeah. 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:25.040 But you know what could be a big part of 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:27.920 your childhood retroactively. 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:30.239 The products that can make your life better. 0:53:30.320 --> 0:53:31.239 That's right, That's right. 0:53:31.600 --> 0:53:34.160 Garrison time is a flat circle, and that means that 0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:37.080 if you buy products that advertise on our show today, 0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:40.560 anything bad that happened in your childhood can be healed. 0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:54.120 So here's the at. 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:54.160 Ah. 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:57.160 We're back and we're reading from the Second Messiah, King 0:53:57.200 --> 0:53:59.319 of Earth by our friend justin Mohan. 0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:01.920 So it opened with what I would describe probably as 0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:04.719 it's probably some kind of satanic ritual. 0:54:05.000 --> 0:54:05.560 I'm guessing. 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:07.920 Yeah, yeah, we get a little more about what his 0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:11.160 dad thinks here, because the next thing, you know, but 0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:13.960 his dad starts crying and Buster tries to comfort him, 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:17.319 and his dad says, a cow that waits nearly a time, Well, 0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:20.479 look the spelling's not perfect. A cow that weighs nearly 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:22.760 a ton gets completely drained of blood, and its bones 0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:24.920 and organs are taken out perfectly, without one drop of 0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:27.400 blood being spilled. And it all happens right here in 0:54:27.440 --> 0:54:29.319 the middle of this field and less than an hour, 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:31.600 maybe even in just a couple of minutes. It's the 0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:33.880 fifth cow this has happened to you this season, and Betsy 0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:36.200 was my best cow. We just won't be able to 0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:37.359 make a profit this year. 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:38.120 Oh my god. 0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:40.680 He starts to cry, and then he says, don't tell 0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:42.719 your mother I told you this, but you're right to 0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.279 leave this place and go far away. There's nothing for 0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:47.600 you here, and in fact, there's nothing for anyone here. 0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.239 So at this point Buster's like, hey, don't say that, dad. 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:52.160 You know we've still got a farm, it'll be okay, 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:54.799 and his dad says, oh, buster, soon you will learn 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:56.600 if you move out west on your own. There is 0:54:56.640 --> 0:54:58.879 an evil in this world which has found its way 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:02.360 into this country, to every country. It is an ugly evil. 0:55:02.640 --> 0:55:05.279 Nearly all the family farms in this state and plenty 0:55:05.360 --> 0:55:07.160 of other states have seen the same trend in the 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.560 past twenty years or so, a trend none of us 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:14.320 have seen before, unexplainable tragedies. Livestock gets mutilated or disappears, 0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:16.680 crops get infested with bugs and disease, and then all 0:55:16.719 --> 0:55:19.120 of a sudden, the farm is taking a financial loss, 0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:21.719 the farm shrinks, and eventually the family goes bankrupt or 0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:24.160 their land is bought out by a big corporation. More 0:55:24.160 --> 0:55:26.600 farmers have committed suicide in the past decade than any 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:29.160 other profession and I can't blame them. 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:29.920 Now. 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:34.319 That ties into some very real and very powerful conspiracy 0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:37.520 theories that this is a lot of this ties into 0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:39.799 like Bill Gates stuff, you know, the idea he has 0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:42.480 bought up a bought a bunch of farmland and among 0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:45.920 conspiratorial sex he has bought all the farmland and China's 0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:47.759 buying all of it or China and Bill Gates are 0:55:47.760 --> 0:55:49.759 buying it together, and they want to because they want 0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:52.120 to control the food supply and take out the ability 0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:55.719 of Americans to feed themselves. Right Like, this is a 0:55:57.440 --> 0:55:59.880 This is something he picked up from right wing media. 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:02.200 This is not an invention of his for this book. 0:56:02.480 --> 0:56:05.480 This is probably something he was either raised to believe 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:07.880 or came to believe fairly early in life because of 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.680 what other people around him were saying. This is common stuff. 0:56:10.880 --> 0:56:12.680 He has put a twist on it, but this is 0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:16.920 not coming out of nowhere. So after this, he basically 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:18.719 tries to talk his dad and like, hey, can't you 0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:21.600 call the FBI or the police, serve you survey them 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:24.480 to catch whoever's doing this? And his dad says, other 0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:27.080 farmers have tried, they just lose all their money faster, 0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:29.839 and the police and an FBI have investigated, But how 0:56:29.880 --> 0:56:32.320 could they stop something like this from happening out of nowhere. 0:56:32.480 --> 0:56:34.239 I've sold more than half the acres of the Moon 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:36.279 family farm over the past three years alone, and we 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:39.359 can still barely stay afloat. There's no fighting it. It's 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:42.680 too secretive, it's too consptantant, it's too well orchestrated. It's 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:46.200 just too evil. But why is this happening, Why is 0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:49.560 the government letting America's farms get unfairly taken over? Well, 0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:51.360 as my father once told me, if you want to 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:53.600 take over a country, you have to gain control of 0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:56.279 their food supply. Remember, my father was an immigrant from 0:56:56.320 --> 0:56:58.560 Germany and he fled the Nazis with your grandmother, who 0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:00.640 was a Jew, to come to America. He used to 0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:03.360 always say, there are the Germans, there are the Russians, 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:06.120 and then there are the Germans from Russia, and they 0:57:06.160 --> 0:57:09.240 all came to America for the same reason land. 0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:13.040 And this is that is Justin's family history, which is 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:17.920 also yeah, why some Nazis on telegram did not like him. 0:57:18.040 --> 0:57:20.840 Yeah, he's very much not a Nazi. And at the 0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:24.720 same time there's elements of like what he's saying here 0:57:24.760 --> 0:57:27.560 that like, yeah, the Germans from Russia that moved here 0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:30.800 very much John Birch, stuff that like a fifth column 0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:33.440 of communists from Europe have moved here and are trying 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:37.439 to change this country. So the conversation ends, he goes 0:57:37.440 --> 0:57:39.280 to sleep. He wakes up the next morning to like 0:57:39.400 --> 0:57:42.240 leave his family forever to start a new life out west, 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:45.600 and he starts by going out to the farm, taking 0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:48.360 out his pipe and his last bit of marijuana, a 0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:52.560 few green buds that he says to himself, perfectly calculated, 0:57:52.920 --> 0:57:55.800 and then he smokes his last bowl of marijuana, which 0:57:56.280 --> 0:57:59.400 I'm sure he did regularly and certainly did not help. 0:57:59.240 --> 0:58:02.680 His So Justin Mohan did have a medical marijuana card 0:58:02.680 --> 0:58:05.520 that he had to give up on January twenty ninth 0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:08.000 to go the handgun that he would then later use 0:58:08.040 --> 0:58:09.360 one day later to kill his father. 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:10.400 Yeah. 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:12.320 I guess good that he had to give up his 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:17.160 medical marijuana card first. Yeah, that's keeping people saying yeah, yeah, 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:20.080 really stop the problem. So he says goodbye to his 0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:23.000 parents and he gets on the road, right they seem. 0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:25.360 He actually does not describe his dad as being very 0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:29.000 mean in this He's pretty sympathetic in the book. But interesting, Yeah, 0:58:28.880 --> 0:58:31.760 which is interesting. But you know, a few years went 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:34.360 by between this one and between him killing his father. 0:58:34.880 --> 0:58:38.000 So why when I brought up earlier that highway rest 0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:40.080 stops are a major part of this book, that's because 0:58:40.080 --> 0:58:42.479 of what comes next. So he crosses from Ohio into 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:46.960 Indiana and he sees a rest area approaching Hmm, got 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:49.880 a piss and wouldn't mind a snack, Buster said. He 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:52.160 pulls off the highway. He gets into a parking lot, 0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:55.400 and he describes most of the men and women wore overalls, 0:58:55.720 --> 0:58:58.080 flannel shirts, and straw hats walking in and out of 0:58:58.080 --> 0:58:59.720 the building to and from the parking lot. A few 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:01.520 people stood off to the sides of the building in 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:04.040 parking lot. In a grass area, a few men were 0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:07.240 urinating outside near the trees. An old man was squatting 0:59:07.280 --> 0:59:09.640 at the tree line taking a shit. I've never been 0:59:09.640 --> 0:59:11.120 to I've been to a lot of rest drops. I've 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:13.440 actually not seen that happening at a rest stop. But 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:16.560 this is to set up something that's happening at the 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:18.520 rest stop, which he learns about when he goes into 0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:20.479 the bathroom. And it turns out to be a bad 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:22.880 decision because as soon as he stands at the urinal, 0:59:23.080 --> 0:59:24.760 he hears someone behind him saying. 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:26.120 Oh, yeah, that's real nice. 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:28.480 Just look at that. You want to try it? Another 0:59:28.560 --> 0:59:31.360 voice whispered. Buster eyed with one eyebrow and raised towards 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:33.960 the stall on his left four legs stood in the stall, 0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:36.680 and then he hears people snorting drugs and a bit 0:59:36.720 --> 0:59:39.080 of white powder falls to the floor. And a guy 0:59:39.200 --> 0:59:41.760 falls down and then is like, oh shit, that's good. 0:59:41.880 --> 0:59:44.800 How much for an ounce I think they're selling. I'm 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:48.400 not sure if it's supposed to be fentanyl or cocaine, Yeah, 0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:51.760 something like that. And then they realize he's listening to 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:54.880 them do cocaine or whatever in the rest stop bathroom. 0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:57.680 Hold on a sec, I think someone's in here listening 0:59:57.720 --> 0:59:59.960 to us. The other person whispered, should we kill him? 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:03.040 The first person whispered, at which point he fleets. 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:05.200 The rest stop. Yeah, quick escalation. 1:00:06.040 --> 1:00:10.000 This is like such a like to take into a 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:13.080 humorous degree, but such a like oh what what the 1:00:13.120 --> 1:00:16.880 Fox News viewing set thinks about? Like everything outside of 1:00:16.880 --> 1:00:17.600 their suburbs. 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:19.880 Justin did not grow up in Ohio. He grew up 1:00:19.880 --> 1:00:24.560 in Pennsylvania. I think his family lived about an hour 1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:27.520 north of Philadelphia, So he grew up in a very 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:31.320 like suburban area outside of a big city. And that 1:00:31.360 --> 1:00:32.680 all kind of grafts onto this. 1:00:33.320 --> 1:00:36.080 Yeah, it makes sense. Now, there's an interesting bit here 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:38.280 when he's outside of I guess they decided not to 1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:40.120 chase him out of the bathroom, but he's still walking 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:41.880 around the rest stop, and we get a little like 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:45.360 gang stalking bit here, people stared at Buster and kept 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:47.680 glancing at him, and he wondered why he didn't look 1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:49.680 or dress too differently. And he was barely out of 1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:53.440 Ohio than he realized everyone was with someone else, nobody 1:00:53.440 --> 1:00:58.000 else was alone except him, And like, that's a delusion. 1:00:58.040 --> 1:01:00.560 That's the kind of delusion leads to gangstik because number one, 1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:03.480 I guarantee you there were other alone people that every 1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:06.120 rest stop he ever went to. But also like people 1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:08.160 don't pay attention to that sort of thing. That is 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.360 a voice in his head telling him to hyper focus 1:01:11.400 --> 1:01:11.720 on this. 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:13.240 So he gets. 1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:16.600 Freaked out by this. He describes himself having a panic attack. Right, 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:19.400 He describes like having a panic attack about the fact 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:21.840 that he's alone out here. Now it seemed as though 1:01:21.840 --> 1:01:23.920 more people were glancing at him, even talking about him, 1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.400 as if they sensed his feeling of vulnerability emanating from 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:30.240 his chest like sharp smelling fresh blood. So he finishes 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:33.200 eating and he gets back on the highway and he 1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:36.400 drives for a bit more until he crosses he passes 1:01:36.920 --> 1:01:40.400 Indiana and gets into Illinois, and then we have another 1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:43.640 rest stop scene. This is like he spends a lot 1:01:43.640 --> 1:01:45.920 of time on rest stops and this is I'm going 1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:48.400 to need you're accult knowledge here, Garrison, so you can 1:01:48.520 --> 1:01:50.640 let me know if he gets. 1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:51.200 This stuff right. 1:01:52.000 --> 1:01:54.400 So, as he's like walking through the rest stop area, 1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:57.240 he sees that, like there's a poster on the wall 1:01:57.280 --> 1:01:59.480 that says, this cabin was once an outpost for trading 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:02.120 with the Native Americans, used during the Civil War to 1:02:02.120 --> 1:02:05.280 store guns and ammunition. Then he walks to another glass 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.280 casing on the adjacent wall and he reads the poster 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:10.720 inside considered haunted by locals after peg and witches lived 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:12.600 in the cabin who were later burned at the stake 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:15.560 for witchcraft. Abandoned for over one hundred years before being 1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:19.680 restored as a rest area. So that's to set the scene. 1:02:19.960 --> 1:02:22.479 And then he goes like gets himself some food or something, 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:25.120 and as he's looking outside at the surrounding forest, he 1:02:25.160 --> 1:02:27.240 sees one hundred yards into the forest there are tiki 1:02:27.280 --> 1:02:30.720 torches lit and it's four oh one pm in the afternoon. 1:02:31.200 --> 1:02:32.880 What the fuck do they have torches lit in the 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:34.520 forest for if it's not going to be dark for 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:37.760 another two hours, Buster said, So he walks in and 1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:41.120 he sees a few individuals dressed like vagabonds, dancing slowly 1:02:41.160 --> 1:02:43.760 in circles around the fire, with their arms spread out 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.640 waving in the air. Buster quietly climbed through some bushes 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:48.760 to get a quiet closer look. There were two men 1:02:48.760 --> 1:02:51.080 and a woman, all in dirty torn robes, dancing within 1:02:51.080 --> 1:02:53.959 a circle of lit candles and tiki torches. One male 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:57.040 and female danced inside the circle, chanting and murmuring words 1:02:57.040 --> 1:02:59.600 which Buster couldn't make out. The other male was kneeling 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:02.320 on the ground inside the circle, carving up pumpkin A 1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:05.240 picture lay in front of him in a bed of flowers. Please, 1:03:05.280 --> 1:03:08.000 spirits of nature and beyond, except this pumpkin carving and 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:11.080 our sacrifices on this day of sam Hayne, in remembrance 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:14.000 of our deceased loved ones, please ease their passage into 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:17.720 the other world. Okay, how's that sounding so far? Garrison? 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:18.240 Is that real? 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:24.440 Is this supposed to be around Halloween? Is this supposed 1:03:24.480 --> 1:03:24.720 to be. 1:03:25.480 --> 1:03:28.000 It's unclear, but based on the fact that it day 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:28.960 ends at six pm? 1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:33.520 Probably yes, Oh yeah, okay, well yeah, I mean, dancing 1:03:33.560 --> 1:03:36.880 around a fire is certainly uh certainly fire rest stop. 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:39.200 Sure, all right, Well, let's get to the let's get 1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:42.520 to them finishing the ritual. So next a woman screams 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:46.440 the magic words ayaka, I don't know. Looked it up, 1:03:46.440 --> 1:03:48.160 couldn't find anything. 1:03:47.840 --> 1:03:50.920 That doesn't sound familiar to me either, but yeah, yeah. 1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:51.520 So she screams. 1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:53.920 And then another female emerged from behind a tree with 1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:55.960 a donkey by a leash in one hand and a 1:03:56.000 --> 1:03:58.960 stick carrying a decorated horse's skull on the other. The 1:03:59.000 --> 1:04:01.400 horse's skull had read ornaments in its eye sockets and 1:04:01.440 --> 1:04:04.000 a sheet draping over its head. She danced into the 1:04:04.000 --> 1:04:06.400 center of the circle of candles with the others. The 1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:08.720 man who was kneeling picked up a long curved sword 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:11.400 from the ground and stood up. Let the sacrifice of 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:13.440 this ass please the spirits of nature. 1:04:13.560 --> 1:04:15.800 The man yelled, Yeah. 1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:17.600 Well, you know, this is probably a little bit more 1:04:17.600 --> 1:04:21.480 intense than your average wiccan soven ritual. 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:26.480 But sure, yeah, yeah, I don't know an ass. That's 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:30.360 a unique sacrifice story. Usually it's like a cow or 1:04:30.360 --> 1:04:32.840 a chicken or something. But uh huh, I appreciate that. 1:04:32.880 --> 1:04:35.360 So he raises the sword above his head. No buster 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:39.280 yelled heehaw, the donkey whine. The donkey got scared and 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:42.600 jerked away, just as the man swung the sword. Slush 1:04:42.680 --> 1:04:46.720 blood spurted upwards and outwards. Ah, the female yelled. The 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:49.160 female fell to her knees, and the donkey ran away 1:04:49.160 --> 1:04:51.440 from the forest. Her seffered arm, still. 1:04:51.640 --> 1:04:52.600 Holding onto the leech. 1:04:53.040 --> 1:04:56.040 The female raised her bleeding stump. You idiot, you cut 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.760 off my arm, she said, Well, the donkey got scared. 1:04:58.800 --> 1:05:00.919 The man said, Now, what are we going to eat? 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:03.400 The woman said. The three others glanced at each other, 1:05:03.440 --> 1:05:05.880 then looked at the woman on the ground with one arm. No, 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:08.520 don't even think about it, she said. The man holding 1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:11.160 the sword raised it high up on his head again. Ah, 1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:15.080 she screamed. Ah, Buster screamed. The woman held her remaining 1:05:15.160 --> 1:05:17.240 arm up just as the man swung down the sword. 1:05:17.600 --> 1:05:19.520 The sword cut her hand in half from top to 1:05:19.560 --> 1:05:22.400 bottom between the middle finger and ring finger, slicing all 1:05:22.400 --> 1:05:26.800 the way down her forearm. Now that's that's not where 1:05:26.800 --> 1:05:30.120 I expected this passage to go. But it gets better 1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:34.440 because they all realize Buster's there at this point and 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:36.600 give up on their plans to eat this woman, who 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:39.240 they have now hacked at twice, and instead she and 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:42.200 all of them start charging Buster, and he describes it 1:05:42.240 --> 1:05:45.120 as they all turned directly towards Buster and began ranning 1:05:45.160 --> 1:05:47.600 towards him. Even the woman with one arm, which was 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:50.600 divided in half like a lobster claw, ran towards Buster, 1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:53.720 her arm flapping in halves as she sprinted towards him. 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:59.880 That is interesting, writing, Yeah, that's I didn't call that coming. 1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:03.720 I love that. Yeah, she got lobster afied. Yeah, that's 1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:05.480 a very eventful saw one. 1:06:05.880 --> 1:06:06.080 Yeah. 1:06:06.480 --> 1:06:10.360 Huh uh huh. I don't think that actually happened to Buster. 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:14.120 I don't think that. I don't believe. 1:06:14.240 --> 1:06:18.520 On Justin's move from Pennsylvania to Colorado, he stumbled across 1:06:18.600 --> 1:06:23.280 a pagan ritual where they dismembered a woman and gave 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:24.360 her a lobster claw. 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:27.680 I do suspect that maybe he saw someone walking their 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:29.720 dog near a rest stop and filled in the. 1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:35.360 Rest That is certainly possible. Speaking of dog shit, you 1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:40.040 know what's not dog shit? These ads? Uh huh, that's right, 1:06:40.400 --> 1:06:41.320 these ads. 1:06:41.360 --> 1:06:44.080 Aren't we sponsored by like the state of Ohio or something? 1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:47.200 Huh oh, yeah, then in that case we probably should 1:06:47.240 --> 1:07:01.880 just move on. Ah, we are back and having a 1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:05.200 really good time learning some more about our old friend 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:10.280 Justin moan So Garrison. At this point, he flees from 1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:15.520 the wickanists and their de handed friend, and he gets 1:07:15.560 --> 1:07:17.640 back on the road again. Doesn't seem to call the 1:07:17.680 --> 1:07:20.480 police over this, but I guess they probably were in 1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:22.880 on it too. What could the police have done about 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:26.440 people dismembering a woman directly next to a crowded highway 1:07:26.440 --> 1:07:29.880 rest stop? So he decides he gets to Saint Louis 1:07:29.920 --> 1:07:32.120 he needs to find a place to eat. He finds 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:35.720 a cheap Italian restaurant and he parallel parked at the curb. 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:41.160 Buster walked inside the restaurant into the counter. A small 1:07:41.200 --> 1:07:43.920 man stood beside the counter with a thick Italian accent. 1:07:44.320 --> 1:07:46.560 I make a good bye for you like you find 1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:47.560 on the East coast. 1:07:47.640 --> 1:07:51.240 Yeah, no, West coast. And then he uses a slur 1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:57.560 for gay people stuff. Okay, no, good thank you. Buster 1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:01.480 said you ain't a slur, are you? The man said no, sir, 1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:04.160 Buster said you sure you don't don't want us some 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:06.680 pineapples on this with no red sauce, all white and 1:08:06.760 --> 1:08:07.960 a cheesy stuffed crust. 1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:11.040 Huh. And then he calls him a slur again no 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:17.280 very stereotypical, but also big in an Italian chef character. 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:20.160 Here, you know, I actually I actually ate at an 1:08:20.200 --> 1:08:24.280 Italian restaurant in Saint Louis last year. I was not 1:08:24.320 --> 1:08:25.639 accosted for being gay. 1:08:25.760 --> 1:08:29.000 But that's good. That's good. Did your guy have a 1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:30.479 comedic Italian accent? 1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:31.160 No? 1:08:31.200 --> 1:08:34.040 I think I was being served by a lesbian. Actually, okay, 1:08:34.080 --> 1:08:36.320 well that's probably why. That's probably why. Yeah. 1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:39.360 So buster tells him that he just wants a plain pizza, 1:08:39.400 --> 1:08:41.479 and the pizza man is willing to serve him, but 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:44.559 he does use the slur again. At this point, two 1:08:44.600 --> 1:08:47.360 men barged into the restaurant wearing long black pea coats, 1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:49.600 black pants and shoes and black fedoras. 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:54.599 Already paid my space. Here we go. This is this 1:08:54.640 --> 1:08:55.960 is what I was signing up for. 1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:56.880 This is rough. 1:08:56.960 --> 1:09:01.360 Stops are fine, this is what I wanted. Yeah, I 1:09:01.400 --> 1:09:02.599 already paid my dues. 1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:05.320 Boys, the man behind the counter said. The man behind 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:08.960 the counter spun pizza dough in one hand. Look pet 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:12.680 tony unpazzo cone pizza, one man said. The other man 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:15.120 in the fedora laughs. The old fool thinks we're here 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:17.840 to collect dues. So what the hella do you want 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:18.880 a fucking pizza for? 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:21.519 And he just keeps using that he can't he cannot 1:09:21.560 --> 1:09:25.679 mention pizza with that, dropping a slur. I am, I'll 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:26.120 tell you what. 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:30.760 I'm not sympathetic towards this Italian man's plight. Both men 1:09:30.800 --> 1:09:34.040 and Fedoras laughed hysterically and turned towards Buster. They lifted 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:38.280 their pea coats and revealed Thompson's submachine guns. They can't 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:39.480 tell me guns. 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:43.519 Those are so much more expensive than modern crime guns. 1:09:43.920 --> 1:09:49.920 Why are they spending thirty three hundred this? Yeah? 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:50.240 Yeah, where? 1:09:53.520 --> 1:09:57.519 Oh it's good stuff, like in Chicago, baby, in Saint Les, 1:09:58.000 --> 1:09:59.160 of course, Chicago. 1:09:59.280 --> 1:10:02.880 Come on, Lewis, let's so you real here. The men 1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:07.320 never explain why they're killing this guy. But as Buster's eyes, 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:13.479 yeah yeah, these are the These are the LGBT police. 1:10:14.320 --> 1:10:17.439 So they they open fire. They each empty one hundred 1:10:17.479 --> 1:10:20.400 bullets towards the man behind the counter. Then they turned 1:10:20.439 --> 1:10:24.680 to leave. You saw nothing, kid, nothing got it? The 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:28.920 man said, I didn't see shit. Buster said, oh my god, 1:10:29.560 --> 1:10:32.200 So the bigoted pizza man has been shot full of 1:10:32.240 --> 1:10:37.160 holes and honestly, I'm fine, just leaves and goes back 1:10:37.200 --> 1:10:37.920 to his car. 1:10:38.439 --> 1:10:42.360 He finds, what a fascinating thing to include the story. 1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:48.040 Like it's He's making a lot of choices here. I 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:50.760 wish I could ask him about some of his process, 1:10:50.880 --> 1:10:54.760 like why did the pizza man have to be stereotypically Italian? 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:57.280 Why did the gangsters have to carry a gun that 1:10:57.320 --> 1:11:01.840 has been outdated for nearly one hundred years. Anyway, he 1:11:01.880 --> 1:11:05.480 goes to a cheap Asian restaurant next, and again parallel 1:11:05.479 --> 1:11:07.400 parks at the curve. He really wants us to know 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:09.599 that he can parallel park. This is this is something 1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:11.240 he's made a point of several times. 1:11:11.240 --> 1:11:11.719 Interesting. 1:11:12.160 --> 1:11:14.800 Oh no, Garrison, I'm not not excited to try to 1:11:14.840 --> 1:11:17.840 read you. The next line, a small man stood behind 1:11:17.840 --> 1:11:20.000 the counter with a thick Chinese accent. 1:11:20.560 --> 1:11:23.560 Nope, nope, nope, you can do Italian. 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:27.960 I am not gonna try this. What's important, you know, 1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:30.960 is that he says the same thing as the Italian man. 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:33.519 I make it racistly, but he says, I'll make you 1:11:33.560 --> 1:11:35.439 good food like you get on the East coast, no 1:11:35.560 --> 1:11:38.519 West coast. And then he also uses the same slur. 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:41.240 And then he asks several more times about it and 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:45.960 repeatedly calls him a slur. I don't understand why they 1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:49.439 are both the same person, but the same two men 1:11:49.560 --> 1:11:54.000 in long black pea coats fedoras come in and then 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:55.800 they shoot this guy repeatedly. 1:11:56.120 --> 1:12:00.000 Huh yeah, yeah, that's actually more interesting than this whole 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:03.880 instant gets repeated, just a slightly different cultural backing. 1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:04.840 It is. 1:12:04.880 --> 1:12:07.600 It is compelling, right, and again the guys like you 1:12:07.680 --> 1:12:09.439 saw nothing, But then they're like, oh, hey, aren't you 1:12:09.479 --> 1:12:11.880 the same kid from the other restaurant where we just 1:12:12.000 --> 1:12:17.719 machine gun demand and Buster, showing admirable bravery here, says, yeah, 1:12:17.760 --> 1:12:20.880 what's going on. I'm just trying to find something to eat, 1:12:21.320 --> 1:12:25.040 and the mafia man very nicely explains, Oi, kid, every 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:27.840 restaurant in Saint Louis is owned by the same gang. 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:29.960 That's why they all say the same script when you 1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:32.680 walk in. But we're taking over their racket and we're 1:12:32.680 --> 1:12:35.120 taking over their restaurant business in Saint Louis. 1:12:36.120 --> 1:12:39.280 So that's why both the Chinese man and the Italian 1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:43.559 man said the same things. Is they have a script. 1:12:45.920 --> 1:12:52.360 Oh wow, huh yeah, that's compelling. That is compelling. Yeah. 1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:54.640 So so Buster stops at a gas station to get 1:12:54.680 --> 1:12:56.719 a pre made tuna sand which, which, to be honest, 1:12:56.960 --> 1:13:00.439 seems like the decision to make after after going two 1:13:00.479 --> 1:13:04.120 of these. Yeah, so he winds up driving again through 1:13:04.120 --> 1:13:08.960 the countryside, he approaches Columbia, in between Saint Louis and 1:13:09.040 --> 1:13:11.720 Kansas City, and he asks a guy if he can 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:14.880 use a public restroom. Yes, sir, just take this here key, 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:17.160 witches so you can get in the door. The man 1:13:17.200 --> 1:13:18.439 held a key up towards Buster. 1:13:18.920 --> 1:13:19.240 Hau. 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:22.840 The man laughed odd way to write laughter, not how 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:25.479 laughter sounds. Buster walked up to the man and took 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:25.880 the key. 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:26.479 Thanks. 1:13:26.520 --> 1:13:29.000 Buster said, we'll say, mister, you're not from around here? 1:13:29.040 --> 1:13:30.920 Is yeah, I don't recognize you. The man said, no, 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:33.439 I'm just passing through. Buster said, you're making your way 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:36.200 to Kansas City. Yes, sir, well you better be careful. 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:38.720 There are abandons on that bridge that goes over the 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:44.360 Missouri Rivers sometimes at night. Now that's not true. 1:13:44.520 --> 1:13:48.240 But also I did run into bandits on my okay, okay, 1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:50.519 on my road trip through through Kansas. 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:52.519 Yeah, okay, it's been a couple of years for me. 1:13:52.720 --> 1:13:55.120 Yeah Saint Louis, Yeah, no, it was. It was intense. 1:13:55.600 --> 1:13:59.120 So Buster's like, that's great. I'm gonna use the bathroom anyway, 1:13:59.200 --> 1:14:01.320 and the man says, I'll be watching you, and so 1:14:01.439 --> 1:14:04.800 Buster says, okay, maybe I won't go, and then the 1:14:04.840 --> 1:14:11.080 man yells, I was gonna suck your dick. So I 1:14:11.080 --> 1:14:14.800 think we've gotten a good picture of, h what's going 1:14:14.840 --> 1:14:18.760 on with this guy. I'm not really sure why he 1:14:19.120 --> 1:14:21.960 It's interesting, like even the absurdity does have kind of 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:24.640 its roots, and you can see some of these this 1:14:24.880 --> 1:14:29.719 like everybody is programmed, like saying the same script or whatever, 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.479 like they're the Like that's why these interactions seem weird 1:14:33.520 --> 1:14:35.920 to me, is that like, this isn't real people talking 1:14:35.920 --> 1:14:36.120 to me. 1:14:36.160 --> 1:14:37.840 These are people reading from a script. It's all. 1:14:37.920 --> 1:14:39.519 Yeah, you can kind of tie it all back to 1:14:39.600 --> 1:14:42.120 some of the delusional thinking I want cities. 1:14:42.160 --> 1:14:43.639 Are these like lawless zones? 1:14:43.880 --> 1:14:47.120 Yes, yes, there's bandits on the road and people just 1:14:47.160 --> 1:14:50.040 getting machine gunned in there in their restaurants. 1:14:50.680 --> 1:14:50.920 Yeah. 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:53.599 So this book ends. One of the last chapters about 1:14:53.640 --> 1:14:56.680 this is the FBI and the CIA electrocuting Buster and 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:59.320 asking him questions. They're making him specifically, they want him 1:14:59.360 --> 1:15:01.240 to tell them their sins, right. 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:02.960 Because he's the second Messiah. 1:15:03.120 --> 1:15:06.080 Because he's the second Messiah, so one of the masks, 1:15:06.120 --> 1:15:09.000 and they seem to know everything about his entire life, right, 1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:11.479 which is again kind of ties back to the delusion. 1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:13.120 So one of them is like, what about the time 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:14.960 you were drunken through a punching a guy who wasn't 1:15:14.960 --> 1:15:17.840 looking during a group fight in college? Not really sure 1:15:17.840 --> 1:15:20.160 what a group fight in college is, but we can 1:15:20.200 --> 1:15:23.360 move right past that. What about all the cigarettes you've smoked, 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:25.439 an acid you've taken, and mushrooms in ecstasy and all 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.320 the other drugs you did. I only did them a 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:29.760 couple of times. It's not like I'm an addict. Still 1:15:29.800 --> 1:15:32.320 serious damage to the body and putting your life at risk. 1:15:32.680 --> 1:15:35.040 CIA is very concerned about his overall health. 1:15:35.320 --> 1:15:39.720 Yeah, the CIA famously on the edge about usings like 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:40.200 at Las. 1:15:40.520 --> 1:15:40.880 Yeah. 1:15:40.960 --> 1:15:43.320 So this goes on for a while, and then the 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:46.280 CIA agent leaves and FBI agents put him into a 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:49.040 black suv and drive him to Andrews Air Force Base. 1:15:49.360 --> 1:15:52.200 The FBI agent's Wheelbuster onto an air Force one and 1:15:52.439 --> 1:15:55.559 air Force one jet also air force is one word, 1:15:56.000 --> 1:15:58.280 and got on board with him. Then the jet took off. 1:15:58.439 --> 1:16:00.880 By the time the jet landed in Moscow, Russia, Buster 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:03.479 no longer shook constantly, but every once in a while 1:16:03.479 --> 1:16:05.920 he had a full body jerk. The FBI agents wheeled 1:16:06.000 --> 1:16:08.720 him off the plane two Russian FSB agents waited on 1:16:08.760 --> 1:16:11.160 the bottom of the ramp. The FBI agents nodded to 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:14.920 the FSB agents, who nodded back. Then THEBI agents got 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:17.639 back on board the jet. The FSB agents wheeled Buster 1:16:17.760 --> 1:16:20.400 to a black rectangular suv and put him inside. Then 1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:23.000 they drove to the Kremlin. Buster sat in a wheelchair 1:16:23.040 --> 1:16:25.400 in the Krimlin. He was motionless, stared off into the 1:16:25.400 --> 1:16:28.400 distance at nothing, and his jaw hung. Suddenly, his entire 1:16:28.439 --> 1:16:30.880 body jerked, then he went back to being still. The 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:34.439 President of Russia walked up to Buster. King Moon there 1:16:34.600 --> 1:16:36.960 is an uprising for more food in several parts of 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:41.559 Southeast Asia. The President of Russia said, gohea. Buster chuckled, 1:16:41.840 --> 1:16:45.160 But do you recommend Zig Global Communist Confederation Due to 1:16:45.200 --> 1:16:48.760 your majesty, the President of Russia said, go ha ha. 1:16:49.040 --> 1:16:53.040 Buster chuckled. Buster stared off into the distance, sill genocide. 1:16:53.080 --> 1:16:56.040 The President of Russia said, yeah, heh, I love that. 1:16:56.400 --> 1:16:59.200 Buster smiled. The President of Russia turned around to face 1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:01.360 representatives countries all over the world. 1:17:01.680 --> 1:17:02.400 Kills them all. 1:17:02.680 --> 1:17:05.280 Orders directly from the King of Earth, the President of 1:17:05.320 --> 1:17:08.439 Russia said, Fighters, jets and bombers from the United Global 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:12.000 Force of China, Russia, America, and Europe, flew over Southeast Asia, 1:17:12.080 --> 1:17:15.160 dropping bombs in every country, destroying every main city, burning 1:17:15.200 --> 1:17:17.960 forests and villages, and killing hundreds of millions of people. 1:17:18.439 --> 1:17:20.680 And that's how the book ends. 1:17:22.320 --> 1:17:25.760 So I am fascinated about this middle chunk, yeah, where 1:17:25.800 --> 1:17:28.920 he's align where he goes to Colorado and uncovers a 1:17:29.000 --> 1:17:34.479 satanic conspiracy involving the Democratic Party. But that end bit 1:17:34.600 --> 1:17:38.080 kind of got me thinking about there was all of 1:17:38.120 --> 1:17:41.960 these like like all these like artistic things he was 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:44.479 doing that was almost preparing himself to do an act 1:17:44.520 --> 1:17:47.439 of violence against a family member. But as much as 1:17:47.439 --> 1:17:49.200 that was the future he was building for himself, you 1:17:49.240 --> 1:17:51.880 also mentioned that he was being transported around by the FBI, 1:17:52.439 --> 1:17:55.400 and like, I wonder how much that was a part 1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:58.080 of the future he was building for himself. Like now 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:01.080 that he's arrested at an National Guard base, he's now 1:18:01.160 --> 1:18:04.679 being taken from place to place by government officials. He's 1:18:04.720 --> 1:18:07.880 constantly now surrounded by Feds, Like he has he has 1:18:07.960 --> 1:18:11.799 built the reality for himself that now he is actually 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:14.360 always watched by the government because he's been arrested for 1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:17.679 doing this things Like he's he has created this fantasy 1:18:17.720 --> 1:18:20.519 world that he can now live in forever. Yeah, whether 1:18:20.560 --> 1:18:23.880 he goes to trial, he's probably gonna I if his 1:18:23.920 --> 1:18:26.200 defense is smart, they'll do some sort of insanity defense. 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.479 He'll be sent to a psychiatric place. Like he's now 1:18:28.479 --> 1:18:31.320 always going to be watched. He is being moved around 1:18:31.640 --> 1:18:34.960 by government agents, like he is living the thing that 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:38.479 he was writing about. And I find that that that 1:18:38.600 --> 1:18:42.240 second half of like him being caught also a compelling 1:18:42.360 --> 1:18:45.599 like a compelling thing that he was preparing himself for. 1:18:46.240 --> 1:18:48.960 And it it I mean he is he expresses repeatedly 1:18:49.280 --> 1:18:51.920 variations of like because the FBI and the CIA are 1:18:51.960 --> 1:18:55.040 constantly in this book and also like constantly just like 1:18:55.120 --> 1:18:59.200 people coming into his life around him, which again is 1:18:59.439 --> 1:19:01.920 part of this illusion. But also you can see how 1:19:02.240 --> 1:19:05.280 a lot of these common right wing tropes about like 1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:08.600 everything is infiltrated by the Feds January sixth, with the 1:19:08.640 --> 1:19:10.680 Federal op and stuff, how this is also going to 1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:12.960 feed into the delusions of a guy like this right 1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:17.040 like he's very much this is very much ripped from 1:19:17.040 --> 1:19:19.960 the headlines, and that you can see how things he 1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:25.120 was encountering and like conspiracy culture and popular media grafted 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:28.439 themselves on to the delusions that he had. Yeah, you 1:19:28.479 --> 1:19:31.320 can also see I turned randomly to a page I 1:19:31.320 --> 1:19:33.800 haven't gotten to yet in this book two sixty and 1:19:33.840 --> 1:19:35.439 the first line I saw in the middle of the 1:19:35.439 --> 1:19:38.240 page is, let's fucking kill them and then eat them 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:40.759 a midget and a wheelchair, yelled, holding an RPG. 1:19:41.400 --> 1:19:46.759 So there's quite a lot in this book. All right, Well, 1:19:47.360 --> 1:19:48.280 well then. 1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:50.800 I don't know what the line of good taste and is, Like, 1:19:50.840 --> 1:19:53.559 I think it's I don't think we'll keep going back 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:55.559 to this. I felt justified and like, well, I want 1:19:55.560 --> 1:19:57.519 to know what's in this thing once. It seems kind 1:19:57.560 --> 1:20:01.439 of bad to keep doing that, this guy who murdered 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:04.160 people's book. But man, there's a lot in here. 1:20:04.600 --> 1:20:07.439 Oh, and there is a use in understanding how these 1:20:07.439 --> 1:20:13.799 people think and under unpacking the sorts of large, large 1:20:13.840 --> 1:20:17.240 swaths of of content that that people that are doing 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:19.400 these mass acts of violence or very targeted acts of 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:22.559 violence have been leaving online because it allows you to 1:20:22.560 --> 1:20:27.559 actually get a better look at overarching patterns. Specifically, his 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:30.759 songs for Me are very very evident of that. Yeah, 1:20:30.800 --> 1:20:33.040 Like they're very similar to a lot of stuff you 1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:36.360 were you were reading the book, like he has the 1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:38.200 The song about him being tracked on his phone is 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:41.680 called they Came for Justin Moan. Yeah, they found him 1:20:41.720 --> 1:20:45.599 all alone, they tracked him on his phone. He talks 1:20:45.640 --> 1:20:48.519 about the student loans that he couldn't pay off, the 1:20:48.560 --> 1:20:52.120 payments made him grown, money controlled his life. They wanted 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:55.200 him to die just like this, all all of just 1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:59.200 all this stuff. They said he was God. They came 1:20:59.240 --> 1:20:59.920 for Justin Moan. 1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:02.080 Yeah. 1:21:02.120 --> 1:21:05.799 Anyway, it's well, it's it's it's not to like laugh 1:21:05.840 --> 1:21:09.519 at him necessarily, No, it's it's about actually understanding this 1:21:09.960 --> 1:21:11.960 and yeah, this is all fucked up. So a part 1:21:11.960 --> 1:21:14.040 of a coping mechanism is kind of laughing at some 1:21:14.080 --> 1:21:17.160 of the more ridiculous elements, but it is it is 1:21:17.240 --> 1:21:21.479 an attempt to actually understand this, this growing trend in 1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:22.400 American culture. 1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:26.160 Yeah, because you can't just like and this is the 1:21:26.200 --> 1:21:29.519 thing that the right often once it wants to do 1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:31.400 with this, is like, well this is just a mental 1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:34.599 illness problem, and like, no, it's not like you have 1:21:34.640 --> 1:21:39.240 to understand it's American culture. Yeah, what's going into people's heads, 1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:43.040 even if they also have, you know, are are mentally ill. 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:46.439 What's going into their heads? What they believe about the world, 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:50.120 influences how they act on those delusions, and the nature 1:21:50.160 --> 1:21:51.160 of those delusions. 1:21:51.439 --> 1:21:53.960 This is what happens to your brain when it entirely 1:21:54.000 --> 1:21:57.080 becomes corrupted by the culture of war like this is. 1:21:57.120 --> 1:22:00.000 This has now taking over his entire method of things. 1:22:00.680 --> 1:22:02.599 This is the only way you can see the world. 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:05.439 And there's people who are paid to get people to 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:06.560 be like this like this is. 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:06.960 This is. 1:22:06.960 --> 1:22:09.799 People's whole job is to get more and more people 1:22:10.160 --> 1:22:14.040 to only think in these terms. And this is one 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:16.920 of the results of that of that effort by elements 1:22:16.920 --> 1:22:17.680 of the American right. 1:22:18.360 --> 1:22:23.879 Yeah, anyway, it's bad. 1:22:24.280 --> 1:22:28.040 That'll be a good book to explain to a young 1:22:28.160 --> 1:22:31.800 child in fifty years. Why why is this on your bookshelf? 1:22:32.200 --> 1:22:35.479 Well, let me tell you. They've just in mode. 1:22:35.680 --> 1:22:37.559 If I ever have a kid, Garrison, this will be 1:22:37.600 --> 1:22:38.599 the first book they rate. 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:43.160 No, that's that's probably bad idea. Well, let's uh, let's 1:22:43.200 --> 1:22:44.719 be done. Let's let's go away. 1:22:45.320 --> 1:23:04.040 Goodbye, Hello, and welcome back to It Could Happen Here, 1:23:04.120 --> 1:23:07.599 your favorite daily podcast about the studied dissolution of society as. 1:23:07.520 --> 1:23:07.920 We know it. 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:10.640 I'm your guest host, Molly Conger, joined once again by 1:23:10.640 --> 1:23:11.479 our friend Garrison. 1:23:11.880 --> 1:23:15.719 Hello, happy to look at the abyss once again. 1:23:16.080 --> 1:23:18.320 Yeah, try not to ruin your day too bad today, 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:21.200 So Garrison, today I want to talk to you about 1:23:21.240 --> 1:23:24.400 some terrible guys that I know you're already pretty familiar with. 1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:30.840 The Goyam Defense League the GDL. The GDL, there's sort 1:23:30.840 --> 1:23:33.880 of a loose network of neo Nazi trolls, best known 1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:37.040 for their anti Semitic flyers, headed up by a failed 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:40.599 rapper named John Minnedeo who calls himself Handsome Truth. 1:23:41.200 --> 1:23:43.400 Handsome Handsome Truth. 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:46.040 So there's this sort of core cast of characters in 1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:49.320 Minnedeo's orbit that shows up in person, mostly in Florida 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:53.000 and Georgia, but the group's real strength is online. They 1:23:53.000 --> 1:23:56.320 have this decentralized network of thousands of followers nationwide who 1:23:56.320 --> 1:23:59.040 are encouraged to download and print the anti Semitic flyers 1:23:59.040 --> 1:24:01.800 and distribute them in their areas. It's not a new model, 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:04.000 right like the Klan has been doing this for decades, 1:24:04.040 --> 1:24:07.439 and National Alliance was big into this in the early aughts. 1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:08.559 But that's what they do. 1:24:08.680 --> 1:24:10.559 Right in the news every few weeks, you know, your 1:24:10.600 --> 1:24:12.400 local news wherever it is that you live, you know 1:24:12.479 --> 1:24:15.559 somebody left these racist flyers on everyone's front lawn, and 1:24:15.640 --> 1:24:17.120 I know you and I have talked about doing an 1:24:17.120 --> 1:24:19.720 episode in the future about the sort of counter productive 1:24:19.760 --> 1:24:23.439 responses to these in person demonstrations, the flying and the 1:24:23.439 --> 1:24:26.120 banner drops. There's a new law in Florida and a 1:24:26.120 --> 1:24:29.719 proposed law in Georgia that are sort of allegedly aimed 1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:32.240 at countering anti Semitism, but are going to have some 1:24:32.280 --> 1:24:34.880 sort of counterproductive knock on effects. And I hope we 1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.719 can get to that at a later date. But today 1:24:37.800 --> 1:24:39.639 I want to talk to you about a little project 1:24:39.680 --> 1:24:42.640 some GDL members have going on the side called the 1:24:42.720 --> 1:24:44.559 City Council Death Squad? 1:24:45.080 --> 1:24:48.600 Are they going you around in Gilding City Council members, 1:24:48.720 --> 1:24:51.200 because that's kind of what it sounds like. 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:54.760 It does sound like, that's kind of that's the energy here. 1:24:54.840 --> 1:24:58.920 They haven't done that yet, yes, But Garrison, how would 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:01.880 you feel if I told you a former Juggalo calling 1:25:01.960 --> 1:25:06.920 himself Scottie big Balls trying to trying to destroy the 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:10.679 thing I love most, which is civic engagement in municipal government. 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:13.840 I have such complicated feelings of Juggalos. 1:25:13.920 --> 1:25:16.680 Oh God, No, I want to be clear I'm not 1:25:16.760 --> 1:25:19.719 slandering the Juggalo community here, right, Like mister big Ball's 1:25:19.720 --> 1:25:22.400 got his hatchetman tattoo covered up with a big snake 1:25:22.439 --> 1:25:24.960 holding a gun a couple of years ago, So he's 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:28.120 no longer god that there's a cool name for their community. 1:25:28.120 --> 1:25:29.680 He's no longer a part of the Juggalo community. I 1:25:29.680 --> 1:25:32.240 don't think the Juggalos would buy this kind of behavior. 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:35.679 Generally, not. They are kind of semi cool. 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:39.080 No, I'm off for chicken hunting, I don't. I don't 1:25:39.080 --> 1:25:44.760 think they abide No, I by just by a happenstance, 1:25:45.160 --> 1:25:47.400 you know. Icps not my cup of tea. No, no, shade, 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:48.760 it's not my cup of tea. But I did see 1:25:48.800 --> 1:25:51.160 them perform at the Lincoln Memorial a couple of years ago, 1:25:51.640 --> 1:25:55.480 and it was the most polite crowd I've ever experienced 1:25:55.479 --> 1:25:56.519 at a live music event. 1:25:56.600 --> 1:25:58.400 So hats off to the Juggalos. 1:25:58.680 --> 1:26:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:26:01.200 --> 1:26:04.519 Now, if you're a city council meeting enthusiast like myself, 1:26:04.760 --> 1:26:06.759 you may already be aware of the rash of racist 1:26:06.880 --> 1:26:09.559 zoom bombings disrupting meetings around the country over the last 1:26:09.680 --> 1:26:13.360 nine months or so. Remote participation in meetings became nearly 1:26:13.439 --> 1:26:15.880 ubiquitous during the pandemic, and the opportunity to make a 1:26:15.880 --> 1:26:18.479 public comment without having to devote an entire evening to 1:26:18.479 --> 1:26:21.240 sitting in an uncomfortable chair at city hall has made 1:26:21.280 --> 1:26:24.040 civic engagement more accessible for all kinds of people right, 1:26:24.080 --> 1:26:28.560 not just because of contagion, but remote participation benefits everybody, 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:31.280 like parents who are managing a bedtime routine by the 1:26:31.320 --> 1:26:33.960 time the public hearing opens at eight PM, or sure 1:26:34.040 --> 1:26:37.160 don't work in nine to five, or people without reliable transportation. 1:26:38.320 --> 1:26:41.479 So it's been a boon for local democracy, but it's 1:26:41.520 --> 1:26:44.559 also created a unique opportunity for people who want to 1:26:44.680 --> 1:26:49.880 ruin that. So last year, Scotty big Balls Mister big Balls, 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:53.800 the online pseudonym for a self described not see named 1:26:53.800 --> 1:26:57.280 Harley Ray Petero Junior, started a group he calls the 1:26:57.320 --> 1:27:01.960 City Council Death Squad organizes online to find government meetings, 1:27:02.000 --> 1:27:04.479 mainly city and county council meetings all over the country 1:27:04.720 --> 1:27:07.160 that allow public comment by a zoom, and then it 1:27:07.200 --> 1:27:10.519 coordinates those members to sign up for speaking slots, crowding 1:27:10.520 --> 1:27:12.800 out actual community members who are trying to speak on 1:27:12.880 --> 1:27:16.040 you know, like actual matters of local concern, and when 1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:18.439 the members of the group get through, the calls follow 1:27:18.600 --> 1:27:22.479 a couple of predictable paths. Sometimes the caller just starts 1:27:22.520 --> 1:27:23.439 screaming slurs. 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:24.040 Right. 1:27:24.040 --> 1:27:27.120 It's just as soon as they connect, it's just screaming 1:27:27.160 --> 1:27:28.439 the N word over and over and over and over 1:27:28.479 --> 1:27:30.240 and over again until someone can hit the button to 1:27:30.280 --> 1:27:32.960 cut it off. Sometimes they do what they call the 1:27:33.040 --> 1:27:35.400 slow roll, where they start off trying to sound like 1:27:35.439 --> 1:27:36.960 a real caller. You know, they'll say, like, you know, 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:40.000 I have concerns about zoning in my neighborhood, or I 1:27:40.120 --> 1:27:42.000 you know, I think we should pay the police more, 1:27:42.280 --> 1:27:44.679 and then it veers abruptly into some kind of bizarre 1:27:44.720 --> 1:27:48.599 antisemitic conspiracy theory about crime or nine to eleven or 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:50.240 advocating for public lynchings. 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:53.960 Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, where they it's like, spend a 1:27:53.960 --> 1:27:56.840 few minutes eating up the city council time, and then 1:27:56.880 --> 1:28:01.120 to curtail it with some unh hinge ramble. 1:28:01.320 --> 1:28:05.639 Right, and then yell slurs yes, yes, yes. And another 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:07.639 favorite of the group is a call format where they 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:11.040 pretend to be gay or Jewish themselves and then ascribe 1:28:11.080 --> 1:28:15.000 to themselves various traits associated with bigoted stereotypes of the girl. 1:28:15.040 --> 1:28:17.320 Okay, okay, yeah, yeah yeah. 1:28:17.439 --> 1:28:20.640 John Benedeo has participated a few times himself, and he 1:28:20.680 --> 1:28:22.759 loves this one. He pretends to be a gay Jewish 1:28:22.760 --> 1:28:27.639 person named Tammy and then says some pretty outrageous things. Sure, 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:33.360 I bet the callers give themselves inside joke names like 1:28:33.520 --> 1:28:37.160 Rudy Hess or Sadie n word, which, when you say 1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:39.519 it out loud, sounds like say the N word, So 1:28:39.520 --> 1:28:41.200 it's like a Seymour Butts kind of thing. It's like 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:44.160 Bart calling most tavern except it's Nazis. 1:28:44.600 --> 1:28:47.719 Wow, very very clever, on the cutting edge of comedy. 1:28:47.880 --> 1:28:48.840 Yeah. 1:28:49.000 --> 1:28:51.759 Or they'll name themselves after a mass shooter, like Dylan 1:28:51.840 --> 1:28:55.439 Rue for Andraspravic or you know, sometimes it's like a 1:28:55.439 --> 1:28:58.400 deep cut, like a more obscure killer whose name might 1:28:58.439 --> 1:29:01.280 not arouse suspicion right off the bat, like Jim Adkisson, 1:29:01.400 --> 1:29:03.639 a man who shot eight people at a Unitarian church 1:29:03.640 --> 1:29:06.240 in Knoxville in two thousand and eight during a children's 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:09.120 production of the musical Annie because he was angry about 1:29:09.160 --> 1:29:14.200 the church's liberal teachings. So you know, those good jokes. 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:16.680 Yeah, this is all like kind of like old like 1:29:16.760 --> 1:29:19.639 old school kind of chan humor. It's it's not even 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:22.839 that popular anymore because it's kind of just out of vogue. 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:25.000 You're kind of you're kind of outing yourself as like 1:29:25.040 --> 1:29:29.599 a bit of like a not an actual boomer, but 1:29:29.680 --> 1:29:32.280 like it's become a boomer fied this type of humor. 1:29:32.680 --> 1:29:36.360 It's not really this sort of thing that younger, more 1:29:36.439 --> 1:29:39.840 hip neo Nazis are into. They they have, they have, 1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:43.840 they have moved on, they have other other horizons of 1:29:44.200 --> 1:29:44.960 bad jokes. 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:50.040 So ruining everybody's good time by shouting a racial slur 1:29:50.160 --> 1:29:53.080 is hardly an innovation. But this particular operation has a 1:29:53.080 --> 1:29:57.000 discernible origin point. In May of twenty twenty three, Potero, 1:29:57.160 --> 1:30:00.479 that's mister big Balls, if you've forgotten already and friends 1:30:00.520 --> 1:30:02.960 showed up in person to a Sacramento City council meeting 1:30:03.000 --> 1:30:06.280 to show their support for Ryan Massano. If you're from 1:30:06.360 --> 1:30:09.719 the Sacramento area, you probably know him. Masano, a former 1:30:09.720 --> 1:30:12.519 Proud Boy with several failed runs for office under his belt, 1:30:12.600 --> 1:30:15.639 already had a long history of being disruptive in public meetings. 1:30:16.080 --> 1:30:18.679 In twenty eighteen, he's removed from chambers during a Valejo 1:30:18.800 --> 1:30:21.960 City Council meeting after saying the city was quote infested 1:30:22.000 --> 1:30:24.880 with homosexuals, and refusing to be called to order by 1:30:24.880 --> 1:30:27.439 the mayor the meeting of the same body in twenty 1:30:27.479 --> 1:30:30.040 twenty two, he was picked up and carried out after 1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:32.400 refusing to end his remarks at the end of his time. 1:30:33.080 --> 1:30:35.400 So in twenty twenty three, he's attending every meeting of 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:37.519 the Sacramento City Council. This has been going on for 1:30:37.560 --> 1:30:40.240 almost two months. He shows up, he gets up, he 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:45.479 makes his homophobic, racist, and antisemitic remarks, but he's keeping 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:47.200 with the rules of the meeting and they're letting him 1:30:47.200 --> 1:30:47.879 make his statements. 1:30:47.920 --> 1:30:50.280 But people aren't happy about it. So activists are shooting 1:30:50.320 --> 1:30:51.280 to show up to the meetings. 1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:54.439 People are showing up with banners, people are booing him, 1:30:56.200 --> 1:30:58.720 people are showing up to counter this, and so he 1:30:58.760 --> 1:31:01.559 puts out a call for backup. So at this at 1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:04.520 this point that Petero shows up with two masked associates 1:31:04.680 --> 1:31:07.360 and a man named Jeffrey Perene, who, like Massano, was 1:31:07.400 --> 1:31:09.200 a proud boy with a failed school board run to 1:31:09.280 --> 1:31:12.439 his name at that time. In twenty twenty three, Parene 1:31:12.479 --> 1:31:14.639 had recently been arrested outside the home of a youth 1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:17.320 pastor after publicly calling for others to join him in 1:31:17.400 --> 1:31:20.000 going to the pastor's home during a school board meeting 1:31:20.040 --> 1:31:23.320 that had to be adjourned because of Parene's disruptive behavior. 1:31:23.360 --> 1:31:25.720 So we're seeing a pattern emerging here, right, Like at 1:31:25.720 --> 1:31:28.000 this point, we've got two proud boys who keep getting 1:31:28.040 --> 1:31:30.960 kicked out of meetings and failing to run for school board. 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:35.679 These are people who are seeing the value in kicking 1:31:35.760 --> 1:31:37.479 up some kind of disturbance at a meeting. 1:31:38.200 --> 1:31:41.719 Yeah, and this was like during a time where school 1:31:41.720 --> 1:31:45.200 board meeting disruptions were very popular. There was a lot 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:48.679 of like far right influencers trying to convince their followers 1:31:48.680 --> 1:31:51.920 to run for school boards. This was kind of a 1:31:52.520 --> 1:31:55.120 very particular cultural moment in like twenty twenty two to 1:31:55.160 --> 1:31:56.200 twenty twenty three. 1:31:56.640 --> 1:31:58.839 So they show up to this meeting to support Massano. 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:03.240 Doesn't go well. One of the guys throws a Hitler salute. 1:32:03.360 --> 1:32:06.400 People react angrily, there's a bit of a scuffle, It devolves, 1:32:06.760 --> 1:32:08.920 and the council ends up going into recess and clearing 1:32:08.960 --> 1:32:11.920 the chambers entirely. Everybody has to leave. You just can't 1:32:11.920 --> 1:32:15.639 be in here too much yelling. Everybody's mad nobody gets arrested, 1:32:15.640 --> 1:32:18.280 but everybody has to leave, and the council ended up 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:21.280 continuing the meeting without the public's presence. So I think 1:32:21.280 --> 1:32:24.080 there was a hearing that night on an ordinance involving 1:32:24.080 --> 1:32:26.439 homelessness that people had showed up to speak on and 1:32:26.840 --> 1:32:29.360 they weren't allowed to do that. Now council continues their business, 1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:32.799 but nobody can be there. And Patera's alliance with Masano 1:32:32.840 --> 1:32:36.560 didn't last. They actually butted heads almost immediately over optics. 1:32:36.960 --> 1:32:39.680 Massano preferred to make his long winded speeches that at 1:32:39.760 --> 1:32:42.160 least in his mind, were more palatable to the listener 1:32:42.479 --> 1:32:45.200 and might more effectively spread his message and potentially red 1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:49.400 pill the listeners. Who's actually angry that Potero's troll forward 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:52.439 tactic of just shouting slurs and obscenities was actually resulting 1:32:52.439 --> 1:32:55.559 in avenues for public comment being closed off. In September 1:32:55.600 --> 1:32:58.160 of twenty twenty three, he wrote, either out of ignorance 1:32:58.200 --> 1:33:01.439 or deliberate sabotage, the GDL has no idea what they're doing. 1:33:02.000 --> 1:33:04.320 So he was mad right because he was doing this 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:06.280 thing where every week he was showing up Megan's comment 1:33:06.360 --> 1:33:10.280 and because of the different strategy of disruption that was 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:13.479 getting harder for him. Masano, for his part, continues his 1:33:13.479 --> 1:33:16.519 one man battle against the Sacramento City Council. He's still 1:33:16.800 --> 1:33:22.400 doing that. Oh, okay, He's a lone wolf out there 1:33:22.400 --> 1:33:25.840 in Sacramento. But Petero saw the potential and trolling on 1:33:25.880 --> 1:33:30.360 a larger scale, okay, almost immediately, he branched out. Over 1:33:30.400 --> 1:33:33.320 the next few months, it developed into an organized trolling machine, 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:37.160 targeting meetings across the country, covering at least seventeen states, 1:33:37.160 --> 1:33:42.280 from Alaska to Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, Georgia, Virginia. They're all 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:45.640 over the place, often hitting the same city repeatedly, and 1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:49.040 in some cases showing up in person with flyers or banners, 1:33:49.439 --> 1:33:53.559 either before or after the zoom bombing. After targeting meetings 1:33:53.600 --> 1:33:55.720 in the city of Walnut Creek, California, the group hung 1:33:55.760 --> 1:33:59.160 a racist banner in the area. Councilor Kevin Wilk commented 1:33:59.200 --> 1:34:00.960 on the banner in the press, and the following week 1:34:01.200 --> 1:34:04.519 the meeting was hit again, with members specifically addressing Wilk, 1:34:04.560 --> 1:34:07.920 the locality's first Jewish city councilor, asking him how he 1:34:08.240 --> 1:34:11.559 liked it. In a later stream, Potero laughed about that 1:34:11.600 --> 1:34:15.000 personalized follow up saying that pissed him off, so I 1:34:15.080 --> 1:34:15.439 had to. 1:34:15.479 --> 1:34:16.040 Rub it in. 1:34:17.760 --> 1:34:20.880 After targeting the city of Wooster, Massachusetts, the group didn't 1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:24.320 just flyer. They mailed homophobic materials to the homes of 1:34:24.360 --> 1:34:28.200 several councilors, including two nuen, the state's first openly non 1:34:28.240 --> 1:34:32.040 binary elected official. And it isn't even just regular city 1:34:32.040 --> 1:34:35.360 council meetings. Some of the targeted meetings are incredibly boring 1:34:35.439 --> 1:34:39.000 governmental bodies like the Morristown, New Jersey Board. 1:34:38.720 --> 1:34:39.679 Of Zoning Appeals. 1:34:40.000 --> 1:34:40.639 Oh wow. 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:44.519 When PETERO posted a clip of their racist calls into 1:34:44.560 --> 1:34:47.360 that meeting, a group member posted the board chairs home 1:34:47.400 --> 1:34:48.560 address and the replies. 1:34:50.040 --> 1:34:52.800 They've also and this doesn't even fit the pattern. I 1:34:52.800 --> 1:34:54.639 think they just got the bug. 1:34:54.680 --> 1:34:58.000 But they've posted several composition videos of the group disrupting 1:34:58.080 --> 1:34:59.000 AA meetings. 1:35:01.600 --> 1:35:03.759 All right, that's interesting. 1:35:04.360 --> 1:35:04.720 I think that. 1:35:04.800 --> 1:35:08.200 I think they just got into the idea of making 1:35:08.200 --> 1:35:11.759 praying phone calls. So they target addiction support groups, often 1:35:12.240 --> 1:35:14.479 geared towards members of the LGBTQ community. 1:35:14.600 --> 1:35:16.040 So okay, all right, yeah, just. 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:18.600 Doing like homophobic attacks on people who are trying to 1:35:18.600 --> 1:35:19.120 get sober. 1:35:19.720 --> 1:35:20.320 Huh. 1:35:20.600 --> 1:35:23.639 They're just like finding any any meeting they can and 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:25.519 just spamming this thing. 1:35:26.040 --> 1:35:27.599 I don't know that they have other hobbies. 1:35:27.880 --> 1:35:30.519 Yes, this seems like a lot of time between keeping 1:35:30.600 --> 1:35:34.400 up on zoning board meetings and whatever local AA call 1:35:34.479 --> 1:35:36.519 in there is. It seems seems to be a bit 1:35:36.640 --> 1:35:40.519 uh childish and time consuming, right. 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:42.400 I mean this is it takes a lot of time, 1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:44.479 and Potero is pretty clear about that. You know, he 1:35:44.800 --> 1:35:47.720 runs these online spaces where he's organizing. He's you know, 1:35:47.920 --> 1:35:50.120 making lists of meetings that they should check out. He's 1:35:50.200 --> 1:35:52.599 complaining about how, you know, sometimes you have to wait 1:35:52.640 --> 1:35:55.200 for hours while they're just doing like regular government stuff. 1:35:55.200 --> 1:35:56.840 You have to just like wait for it to be 1:35:56.880 --> 1:35:59.519 your turnity all the N word. It's time consuming. 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:01.599 Do you know what isn't time consuming? 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:07.040 Spending your harder in cash on the products and services 1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:07.920 that support this show. 1:36:08.120 --> 1:36:08.559 That's right. 1:36:08.960 --> 1:36:11.760 We make it fast, easy and reliable by listening to 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:25.080 these products and services. Okay, we are back talking about 1:36:25.200 --> 1:36:29.280 the Goyam Defense League, the GDL. So we were just 1:36:29.320 --> 1:36:33.200 discussing how they were spending a lot of time disrupting 1:36:33.280 --> 1:36:36.720 a lot of meetings with their little call in campaign. 1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.360 Right, and it's tempting to dismiss this behavior as Oh, 1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:41.320 it's just trolling, right, they're just trolls. 1:36:41.520 --> 1:36:44.320 Sure, it's like this is so juvenile. 1:36:44.200 --> 1:36:46.639 How bad can it be? It's just people calling in, right, But. 1:36:46.640 --> 1:36:49.519 This has real world consequences, and they know that. They 1:36:49.600 --> 1:36:52.479 revel in the reactions to their behavior. They're fully aware 1:36:52.520 --> 1:36:55.000 of and celebrate the destruction that it leaves in its wake. 1:36:55.600 --> 1:36:58.960 When the city of Portland suspended virtual public comment, commenters 1:36:58.960 --> 1:37:02.160 in the group called it a big effing win when 1:37:02.200 --> 1:37:04.400 there's other media coverage of cities who have limited or 1:37:04.439 --> 1:37:07.880 even ended public comment altogether. The headlines are posted triumphantly 1:37:07.920 --> 1:37:12.000 in the group, often captured only with loll comments like 1:37:12.040 --> 1:37:14.400 the calls will continue until the Jews leave and shut 1:37:14.439 --> 1:37:16.639 it down for the win and never let them regroup 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:20.000 arrest no comfort given literal the replies to posts about 1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:22.880 city after city ceding ground to this harassment. 1:37:24.120 --> 1:37:28.160 So it's not just causing little inconveniences, it is actually 1:37:28.200 --> 1:37:32.360 shutting down city's ability to hold public comment and for 1:37:32.400 --> 1:37:35.479 the public to actually speak on issues that are affecting 1:37:35.520 --> 1:37:36.920 them and their city. 1:37:37.600 --> 1:37:37.760 Right. 1:37:37.800 --> 1:37:40.479 So, there have been meetings that, you know, when this occurs, 1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:43.680 the meeting itself, that particular meeting just ends everyone just 1:37:43.840 --> 1:37:46.759 leaves because they can't continue, or you know, the meeting 1:37:46.800 --> 1:37:49.320 does continue, but they stop taking public comment, or they 1:37:49.439 --> 1:37:53.080 change their policies and procedures to limit public comment moving forward. 1:37:54.520 --> 1:37:56.960 So this is having real effects that are you know, 1:37:58.120 --> 1:38:00.400 living on in these cities even after they moved on. 1:38:01.640 --> 1:38:04.920 Group members suggest using burner phones and fake number generators 1:38:04.960 --> 1:38:08.120 to avoid being caught or blocked. Potero has written online 1:38:08.120 --> 1:38:11.200 that he's been quote banned on multiple devices, but I 1:38:11.240 --> 1:38:14.719 have some tactics to prevent them from stopping me. Patero 1:38:14.800 --> 1:38:17.160 noted on a recent stream that the ADL's estimate of 1:38:17.200 --> 1:38:19.760 over one hundred and thirty disruptions is short changing them, 1:38:19.880 --> 1:38:23.479 insisting they've done at least three times that many, sometimes 1:38:23.560 --> 1:38:26.760 hitting dozens of meetings per week, and they're not just 1:38:27.400 --> 1:38:29.599 doing it right. It's not just the act of doing 1:38:29.640 --> 1:38:32.360 it that is the thrill to them. They then cut 1:38:32.400 --> 1:38:34.960 the clips and then post them online for everyone to enjoy. 1:38:35.280 --> 1:38:38.599 They're cutting promos and making highlight reels of their favorite moments. 1:38:38.920 --> 1:38:41.880 There are compilations grouped by genre of hate right. There's 1:38:42.240 --> 1:38:44.720 videos combining all the best moments of homophobia, all the 1:38:44.760 --> 1:38:48.360 best moments of anti semitism. There are these promo videos 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:51.040 set to that sort of ugly electronic fash wave music 1:38:51.080 --> 1:38:52.120 that they all love so much? 1:38:52.360 --> 1:38:53.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:38:53.320 --> 1:38:55.519 The promo videos have titles like this is our meeting 1:38:55.560 --> 1:38:57.280 now or We're jacking your shit. 1:38:57.880 --> 1:39:01.000 So these are being shared on like bitchu and Odyssey 1:39:01.040 --> 1:39:01.479 and Telegram. 1:39:01.560 --> 1:39:04.640 I'm guessing yeah, they're they're you know, GDL, they're on 1:39:04.680 --> 1:39:07.880 They're on every platform that's opened to people like them, right, okay, 1:39:08.760 --> 1:39:11.920 and following that GDL model, right, they're they're posting these 1:39:12.000 --> 1:39:17.280 these videos and getting money. They're accepting donations to continue 1:39:17.320 --> 1:39:21.840 doing this. And then on the anniversary of Kristall Knocked, 1:39:21.840 --> 1:39:25.160 they targeted a planning commission in the Crescent City, California, 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:30.080 entitled the video CCDs goes Chrystall Knocked on Crescent City. Right, 1:39:30.120 --> 1:39:32.320 So it's it's just a joke, right, They're not really 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:36.479 doing Christall Knocked, but they're using the language of this 1:39:36.560 --> 1:39:38.480 sort of genocidal violence. 1:39:38.640 --> 1:39:41.720 And it's like monetized. They're like making money off of it. 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:46.679 They are making those donos, as they say it. After 1:39:46.680 --> 1:39:50.439 a recent ADL article about the operation, Patero posted, fuck 1:39:50.479 --> 1:39:53.920 the ADL, We'll give those caselers something to covetch about 1:39:53.920 --> 1:39:56.920 in twenty twenty four, and his wife Haley reposted that, 1:39:56.960 --> 1:39:58.519 adding you think he's playing. 1:39:58.840 --> 1:40:02.960 He lives for this. Yes, they don't work, They really 1:40:02.960 --> 1:40:03.960 do live for this. 1:40:04.280 --> 1:40:07.439 It does sound like this is like the most important 1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:10.120 thing happening in their life, which is one quite sad. 1:40:10.439 --> 1:40:11.840 That also shows that they have a lot of time 1:40:11.880 --> 1:40:13.800 to dedicate to pulling off stuff like this. 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:16.320 Time that they should be dedicating to parenting. 1:40:16.400 --> 1:40:18.800 Honestly, well, I don't know if you want them around 1:40:18.840 --> 1:40:23.880 their kids. Honestly, the more time they spend away from 1:40:23.880 --> 1:40:25.559 their children is probably better. 1:40:26.360 --> 1:40:27.040 God damn. 1:40:27.680 --> 1:40:30.759 During the zoo bombing in October, an official in Saucelito, California, 1:40:30.880 --> 1:40:33.879 voice support for just cutting off the calls over objections 1:40:33.920 --> 1:40:36.479 from other members of council that this could get them sued, 1:40:36.960 --> 1:40:39.639 saying he would quote take the lawsuit if these people 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:42.720 can even get organized enough to sue us. And while 1:40:42.760 --> 1:40:45.439 the group has made no progress on actually filing any 1:40:45.520 --> 1:40:48.720 legal action there or anywhere else, they haven't forgotten it. 1:40:49.120 --> 1:40:51.559 Just last week the group expressed an interest in seeking 1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:54.639 some kind of retribution for that comment, saying they may 1:40:54.720 --> 1:40:58.000 need a little visit, and the group is raising money 1:40:58.040 --> 1:41:00.760 to start traveling to meetings in person. Fundraiser on the 1:41:00.800 --> 1:41:03.320 platform of choice for right wing extremists, give Send Go, 1:41:03.840 --> 1:41:06.160 has already raised one thousand dollars in donations to fund 1:41:06.200 --> 1:41:08.360 travel and lodging for the group members to travel to 1:41:08.400 --> 1:41:12.240 city council meetings for in person disruptions. On their weekly 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:15.160 live streams, Viewers can donate directly in the stream. On 1:41:15.240 --> 1:41:17.880 the stream, Potero thanks viewers for donations, often in the 1:41:17.920 --> 1:41:20.200 amount of fourteen dollars and eighty eight cents. 1:41:20.400 --> 1:41:21.559 Hey yeah, that makes sense. 1:41:22.040 --> 1:41:22.439 Oh yeah. 1:41:22.439 --> 1:41:25.559 They they live for the memes, reminding them that every 1:41:25.560 --> 1:41:29.760 donation goes directly towards funding their IRL activism, getting them 1:41:29.760 --> 1:41:32.360 offline and inter real life traveling around the country to 1:41:32.400 --> 1:41:36.360 engage in racial harassment in person. He also says the 1:41:36.360 --> 1:41:39.519 donations fund a side project called postcard Waffen. 1:41:40.040 --> 1:41:42.040 The nota SEENI way wait wait wait. 1:41:41.960 --> 1:41:45.320 Wait wait wait wait say that one bird time, just 1:41:45.320 --> 1:41:48.320 a little slower postcard waffen. 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:50.240 They love to add postcard waffen. 1:41:50.520 --> 1:41:52.640 They love to add waffen to things. Right, that's just 1:41:52.680 --> 1:41:53.799 the German word for weapon. 1:41:54.200 --> 1:41:57.000 So this this is weaponized mailings, and this is the 1:41:57.080 --> 1:42:01.200 nickname they've given to the work of mailing hateful materials 1:42:01.240 --> 1:42:04.040 directly to the homes of the elected officials who preside 1:42:04.080 --> 1:42:06.960 over the meetings they disrupt. This seems like a sort 1:42:06.960 --> 1:42:09.640 of targeted harassment kind of campaign. 1:42:09.960 --> 1:42:14.000 Sure, target harassment, intimidation. There's some with the other like mentions. 1:42:14.040 --> 1:42:16.639 You know, it's like veiled threats. These types of neo 1:42:16.680 --> 1:42:21.200 Nazis are not averse to actually doing violence on people. 1:42:22.200 --> 1:42:25.759 So yeah, there's there's like a a pleasant threat implied 1:42:26.520 --> 1:42:29.560 with these with this, with this sort of rhetoric and activity. 1:42:29.560 --> 1:42:31.880 And because the decentralized nature of the GDL, and I 1:42:31.880 --> 1:42:33.439 think this is something we can talk about in a 1:42:33.479 --> 1:42:35.759 later episode about kind of what they're up to these days. 1:42:36.240 --> 1:42:40.400 Is they don't have communication with or control over all 1:42:40.439 --> 1:42:43.519 of the people who are consuming this content, So they 1:42:43.560 --> 1:42:46.280 may not plan to follow up with these people in 1:42:46.320 --> 1:42:50.240 a manner that would be criminal, but they're encouraging people 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:54.160 to think that that's an option and that sure has ramifications. Sure, 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:57.559 So this isn't just annoying prank calls. It's an organized 1:42:57.560 --> 1:43:01.760 effort to ruin local democracy, to make meetings unproductive and unbearable, 1:43:01.800 --> 1:43:05.080 to intimidate and humiliate local government employees, and elected officials 1:43:05.320 --> 1:43:08.240 to make your city council chambers and intimidating an uncomfortable 1:43:08.240 --> 1:43:10.519 place for you, closing off that avenue for you to 1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:12.840 address and engage with your local government, and to take 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:15.839 away options for actually engaging with local government by forcing 1:43:15.840 --> 1:43:18.559 cities to limit public comment. And we can't seed that 1:43:18.640 --> 1:43:20.000 ground to them. 1:43:20.120 --> 1:43:22.720 Ah man, that is I mean, I don't know. There's 1:43:22.760 --> 1:43:26.640 just been so many instances with city council meetings and 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:30.599 various other kind of these big public forms, especially school 1:43:30.600 --> 1:43:33.599 board meetings, where like they are like discussing extremely important 1:43:33.600 --> 1:43:39.280 stuff around like trans people and forming policies that impact people. 1:43:39.320 --> 1:43:41.920 And I know a lot of people do actually end 1:43:42.040 --> 1:43:44.800 up going out to these and talking about their experiences 1:43:44.840 --> 1:43:48.519 and why proposed laws or ordinances would be so harmful, 1:43:48.920 --> 1:43:51.400 and just removing that option, whether or not you believe 1:43:51.439 --> 1:43:55.720 in like the electoral process TM, removing that option from 1:43:55.720 --> 1:43:58.120 people to actually speak on their own experiences does have 1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:01.320 like real consequences. 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:03.320 Even if even if you're not a big believer in 1:44:03.840 --> 1:44:06.519 it being a meaningful political action to engage with your 1:44:06.560 --> 1:44:09.280 local government. I think we can all agree that it's 1:44:09.280 --> 1:44:12.080 not okay for Nazis to make it unsafe for anyone 1:44:12.160 --> 1:44:16.400 to do that. Yeah, you know who won't seed ground 1:44:16.400 --> 1:44:19.040 to the nazis trying to take over your local school board. 1:44:20.400 --> 1:44:23.760 The products and services sets, the forth this podcast, I hope. 1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:28.160 So it depends capitalism is u is quite strong. 1:44:28.400 --> 1:44:30.000 But we'll see how this develops. 1:44:39.920 --> 1:44:42.920 Okay, we are back. So this is this is kind 1:44:42.920 --> 1:44:44.120 of depressing, Molly. 1:44:44.200 --> 1:44:47.400 What what? Uh huh ah? 1:44:47.960 --> 1:44:49.160 What is to be done? 1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:50.000 What is to be done? 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:50.560 Garrisoned? 1:44:50.720 --> 1:44:53.559 Yes, So unfortunately a lot of the obvious solutions here 1:44:53.600 --> 1:44:54.320 are bad ones. 1:44:54.520 --> 1:44:54.680 Right. 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.479 The response that a lot of cities have had is that, well, 1:44:57.479 --> 1:45:00.000 they're just going to eliminate remote public comment altogether. 1:45:00.160 --> 1:45:02.519 You just can't participate remotely anymore, which. 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:05.519 Hurts people who are like disabled, hurts people who have 1:45:05.880 --> 1:45:09.439 tough things with scheduling, parents, people who work at certain hours. 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:12.360 Yeah yeah, yeah, like most people can't spend six hours 1:45:12.400 --> 1:45:13.920 sitting at city hall on a Monday night. 1:45:13.960 --> 1:45:14.840 Most people can't. 1:45:14.880 --> 1:45:18.960 And so having remote participation was really it opened up 1:45:19.000 --> 1:45:22.000 local democracy to people with all kinds of life situations, right, 1:45:22.000 --> 1:45:24.520 And that's what happened here in my own city of Charlottesville. 1:45:25.120 --> 1:45:28.960 CCDs targeted us last October, and in response, the mayor 1:45:29.040 --> 1:45:33.760 eliminated remote participation in all meetings. We didn't get to 1:45:33.800 --> 1:45:36.280 revisit that. That's just how it works now. So they've 1:45:36.320 --> 1:45:39.040 moved on. But now my entire city of over fifty 1:45:39.080 --> 1:45:41.920 thousand people lives with the consequences of that action, and 1:45:41.960 --> 1:45:44.960 we're left with a less accessible local democracy. They'd rather 1:45:45.000 --> 1:45:47.400 prevent anyone from calling in than have to deal with 1:45:47.439 --> 1:45:50.200 deciding whether they can do anything about it when someone 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:53.840 abuses that process. And there's some really basic steps that 1:45:53.880 --> 1:45:55.679 cities can take right off the bat, like without even 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:58.000 overthinking it or getting into the legal complications of the 1:45:58.000 --> 1:46:01.200 First Amendment. Cities like Lin would Walkhington responded to their 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:04.120 CCDA zoom bombing by adding a few basic layers of 1:46:04.120 --> 1:46:07.760 security to their virtual meetings, like requiring commenters to sign 1:46:07.840 --> 1:46:11.760 up the day before. So this group is organized in 1:46:11.840 --> 1:46:14.360 a private telegram chat, and so like one person gets 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:16.479 into a meeting and just drops the link into the chat, 1:46:16.520 --> 1:46:18.760 and so everyone just clicks that link. But if you 1:46:18.800 --> 1:46:20.679 make it so everyone has to have a unique sign 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:22.559 in link that they signed up for with a real 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:25.599 email address the day prior, that makes a little bit 1:46:25.640 --> 1:46:26.160 harder to. 1:46:26.400 --> 1:46:27.519 Coordinate a dog pile. 1:46:27.880 --> 1:46:30.519 Sure you know it isn't hard to make a fake 1:46:30.600 --> 1:46:32.840 or temporary email address to sign up to get the link. 1:46:32.880 --> 1:46:35.960 But if sometimes just adding one extra step is discouraging 1:46:36.080 --> 1:46:39.519 enough that they'll pick somebody else this week. But this 1:46:39.560 --> 1:46:42.120 behavior is escalating, right, and making it a little bit 1:46:42.120 --> 1:46:44.200 harder to get into the zoom isn't going to solve 1:46:44.200 --> 1:46:44.759 the problem. 1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:46.120 It's going to keep happening. 1:46:46.160 --> 1:46:48.360 And you can only make a public meeting so secure 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:53.520 without actually locking out the public. Elected officials are understandably 1:46:53.680 --> 1:46:56.599 concerned about the legal ramifications of dealing with these kinds 1:46:56.600 --> 1:47:00.840 of calls. With some exceptions, they can't prevent someone from 1:47:00.880 --> 1:47:04.320 speaking based only on the content of the speech. I 1:47:04.360 --> 1:47:06.800 actually found a two thousand and six letter. I guess 1:47:06.800 --> 1:47:08.760 in two thousand and six, the LA City Council asked 1:47:08.760 --> 1:47:11.719 their city attorney. I need to do a little research 1:47:11.720 --> 1:47:12.960 on what was going on in two thousand and six 1:47:13.000 --> 1:47:15.120 in La. But the LA City Council asked the city attorney, 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:18.240 can we make a rule that people can't say racial 1:47:18.240 --> 1:47:19.040 slurs in here? 1:47:19.520 --> 1:47:23.000 Which seems like an okay rule, like I don't know. 1:47:23.800 --> 1:47:27.719 The answer was no, Legally, you can't limit speech based 1:47:27.720 --> 1:47:30.679 on its content, right, because these are public forums put 1:47:30.680 --> 1:47:32.439 on by the government. I mean, it's what's called a 1:47:32.439 --> 1:47:35.639 designated public forum, but we don't. They can't limit speech 1:47:35.680 --> 1:47:38.400 based on its content, right, But what they can do 1:47:38.920 --> 1:47:43.200 is have rules of decorum. Their city attorney pulled some 1:47:43.320 --> 1:47:47.439 language directly from a Ninth Circuit Court opinion that's in California, 1:47:47.479 --> 1:47:49.680 So it's a federal Court of appeals that covers that 1:47:49.720 --> 1:47:53.439 part of California. White versus City of Norwalk, and that 1:47:53.520 --> 1:47:56.679 decision upheld a city ordinance that authorized the legislative body 1:47:57.000 --> 1:48:02.000 to remove individuals who uttered quote personal, impertinent, slanderous, or 1:48:02.040 --> 1:48:07.639 profane remarks if the remarks disrupted, disturbed, or otherwise impeded 1:48:07.640 --> 1:48:09.519 the conduct of the meeting. So it's not just that 1:48:09.560 --> 1:48:13.280 your remarks were nasty, it's that your behavior was disruptive. 1:48:13.320 --> 1:48:16.000 The way that these remarks were delivered was interfering with 1:48:16.040 --> 1:48:19.200 the conduct of the meeting. So the meeting is disrupted 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:21.640 because council is prevented from accomplishing its business in a 1:48:21.720 --> 1:48:26.400 reasonably efficient manner. The court further wrote, indeed, such conduct 1:48:26.479 --> 1:48:29.080 may interfere with the rights of other speakers, and that's 1:48:29.080 --> 1:48:31.719 what's happening here, right that these disruptions are not only 1:48:32.040 --> 1:48:33.799 not your right. You don't have a right to disrupt 1:48:33.840 --> 1:48:37.919 the meeting, but that behavior also fundamentally infringes on everyone 1:48:37.960 --> 1:48:41.240 else's rights to have the meeting. It keeps the meeting 1:48:41.280 --> 1:48:44.880 from being conducted, and it's interfering with the conduct of 1:48:44.920 --> 1:48:48.160 the government's business. So if they open a public forum, 1:48:48.640 --> 1:48:50.800 anyone can speak in the public forum, and you can't 1:48:50.800 --> 1:48:52.480 cut them off because of the content. 1:48:52.200 --> 1:48:52.799 Of their speech. 1:48:52.880 --> 1:48:54.679 But that doesn't mean there's no legal way to put 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:57.839 limits on public comment. If the rule is content neutral 1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:00.320 and serves a legitimate government interest, the government can pose 1:49:00.479 --> 1:49:03.639 some restrictions on your speech, right like requiring a permit 1:49:03.680 --> 1:49:07.040 for a parade is a limit on speech, or saying 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:09.120 you can't yell in a courtroom is a limit on 1:49:09.160 --> 1:49:10.960 your speech. But it's not a violation of your First 1:49:11.000 --> 1:49:14.760 Amendment rights to say you can't disrupt a trial. But 1:49:14.760 --> 1:49:17.080 more importantly, and the risk of getting too boring, right, 1:49:17.120 --> 1:49:21.479 like a meeting is not a sidewalk there is. This 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:23.800 is not just any public place where you're speaking. This 1:49:23.920 --> 1:49:26.040 is a meeting where business is being conductive. There's a 1:49:26.120 --> 1:49:29.120 legitimate and compelling government interest in the ability to conduct 1:49:29.160 --> 1:49:33.200 the meeting, and so the rules that they can make 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:36.400 in this space can vary state by state. You know, 1:49:36.479 --> 1:49:40.479 some states do or don't allow you to limit speakers 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:44.719 to residents, or they can or can't limit the topics 1:49:44.760 --> 1:49:47.519 that are Germane. So it's going to vary a little bit. 1:49:47.560 --> 1:49:50.040 But the courts have repeatedly upheld, not just in the 1:49:50.080 --> 1:49:52.800 Norwalk case, the ability of a council to adopt a 1:49:52.840 --> 1:49:55.760 content neutral rule and use that rule to cut off 1:49:55.800 --> 1:50:00.200 or remove speakers who are disruptive. And honestly, I have 1:50:00.240 --> 1:50:03.280 to say, I think any city attorney worth assault knows this. 1:50:03.280 --> 1:50:06.320 This is day one stuff. If your whole job, well 1:50:06.400 --> 1:50:08.160 not your whole job, but your job on Monday nights 1:50:08.200 --> 1:50:11.280 whenever the meeting is, is to provide legal advice to 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:14.200 a city council on how they're conducting their business. You 1:50:14.320 --> 1:50:16.880 know this because disruptive behavior during a meeting isn't some 1:50:17.000 --> 1:50:21.120 brand new phenomenon. But it's kind of remarkable. What I 1:50:21.200 --> 1:50:23.880 watched like a hundred clips of this happening right and 1:50:24.040 --> 1:50:25.160 over and over and over again. 1:50:25.200 --> 1:50:26.599 You see these city attorneys saying. 1:50:26.439 --> 1:50:29.559 Like, oh, we're powerless here, we're powerless here. We don't 1:50:29.560 --> 1:50:31.240 want to get sued, there's nothing we can do, and 1:50:31.280 --> 1:50:33.200 that's not true, and they know that. 1:50:33.640 --> 1:50:36.280 Yeah, I mean, I've seen people get escorted out of 1:50:36.439 --> 1:50:39.320 chambers for being disruptive in city council meetings before. Like 1:50:39.520 --> 1:50:46.000 they it happens relatively frequently. It's not like an uncommon, 1:50:46.120 --> 1:50:47.640 brand new occurrence. 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:51.840 Right, I mean, I've seen that discretion applied appropriately and fascistically. 1:50:51.920 --> 1:50:52.080 Right. 1:50:52.600 --> 1:50:55.320 Absolutely, it happens, but over and over and over again 1:50:55.320 --> 1:50:57.599 in these situations, you see these city attorneys, the city 1:50:57.600 --> 1:50:58.439 councils saying. 1:50:58.200 --> 1:51:00.880 Like, I guess we just have to let them do it. 1:51:02.280 --> 1:51:04.360 A commenter in one of the Sacramento meetings from last 1:51:04.360 --> 1:51:06.599 summer actually pointed out that, you know, she was saying 1:51:06.600 --> 1:51:10.799 to her city council, you had no hesitation removing black 1:51:10.920 --> 1:51:14.160 members of the public from this room when they were 1:51:14.200 --> 1:51:17.920 angry that your cops murdered Stefan Clark. So why are 1:51:17.960 --> 1:51:22.400 you so nervous about infringing on the free speech rights 1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:24.759 of literal Nazis? Like someone who's just in here screaming 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:27.839 the N word? Why is that worthy of more breathing 1:51:27.920 --> 1:51:30.720 room and something? You know, as a resident of the 1:51:30.720 --> 1:51:33.920 city of Charlottesville who watches our local government pretty carefully. 1:51:34.000 --> 1:51:36.120 Something we've found over and over again here is that 1:51:36.160 --> 1:51:40.240 if fear of litigation is your starting point for making 1:51:40.280 --> 1:51:44.520 decisions on how to govern, you're going to make cowardly, dangerous, 1:51:44.920 --> 1:51:49.320 stupid decisions every time, and you're probably gonna get sued anyway. 1:51:50.200 --> 1:51:53.679 So make the choice to protect people. Get good legal advice. Sure, 1:51:53.720 --> 1:51:56.200 consult with your city attorney, Consult the case law. 1:51:56.280 --> 1:51:57.160 Don't be reckless. 1:51:57.560 --> 1:51:59.320 But if you're faced with the opportunity to make a 1:51:59.320 --> 1:52:02.120 decision that text people, a decision that serves the public good, 1:52:02.120 --> 1:52:04.599 a decision that aligns with the values you claim to hold, 1:52:05.240 --> 1:52:08.240 but might result in someone filing a lawsuit against you 1:52:08.280 --> 1:52:11.160 that they're not going to win anyway, don't err on 1:52:11.200 --> 1:52:14.160 the side of shielding yourself from nuisance litigation at the 1:52:14.160 --> 1:52:15.040 expense of the public. 1:52:15.439 --> 1:52:17.720 Don't just look at us in shrug. Your hands are 1:52:17.720 --> 1:52:18.519 not tied here. 1:52:18.800 --> 1:52:20.759 And if you're not comfortable making that kind of decision, 1:52:21.360 --> 1:52:25.160 get off the diis. I mean, I'm not a city attorney, 1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:27.960 but that would be my advice, right, And so again, 1:52:28.080 --> 1:52:30.519 I think the bottom line here is that we can't 1:52:30.680 --> 1:52:34.519 seed this ground. The end result here can't be well 1:52:34.680 --> 1:52:37.000 local government just isn't a place where we can safely 1:52:37.040 --> 1:52:40.559 and meaningfully engage with elected officials on the issues that matter. Right, 1:52:41.040 --> 1:52:44.080 that can't be the answer here. Don't wait until this 1:52:44.240 --> 1:52:46.519 is happening where you live to react to this, right 1:52:46.560 --> 1:52:49.519 like it could happen here. It is happening in a 1:52:49.520 --> 1:52:52.160 lot of places. You know, if you're inclined to do so, 1:52:52.200 --> 1:52:55.719 you know, show up, engage, speak your mind on local issues. 1:52:55.880 --> 1:52:58.480 Don't wait for your city hall to become a battleground 1:52:58.479 --> 1:53:00.519 to show up to counter right wing inflows. Right like, 1:53:00.840 --> 1:53:05.320 don't just react to reactionaries. Stake out that ground now, 1:53:05.880 --> 1:53:09.120 that's our space. Right, make it clear that people are 1:53:09.120 --> 1:53:12.120 engaged and that they insist on their right to engage, 1:53:12.479 --> 1:53:14.880 so that your city council can't say, well, people aren't 1:53:14.880 --> 1:53:17.439 really making public comments anyway, we just won't have it. 1:53:18.640 --> 1:53:20.160 And let make sure that they know that you will 1:53:20.200 --> 1:53:23.280 not accept the death of local democracy at the hands 1:53:23.320 --> 1:53:27.759 of some Weasley paradox of tolerance bullshit about letting Nazis 1:53:27.920 --> 1:53:29.760 dominate our spaces. 1:53:30.560 --> 1:53:33.240 I know there's been other people who've been like talking 1:53:33.320 --> 1:53:38.439 about and pointing out these instances of GDL zoom bombing 1:53:38.520 --> 1:53:41.000 and shutting down these meetings, But there certainly has been 1:53:41.040 --> 1:53:45.320 less discussion of this being a deliberate tactic that GDL 1:53:45.400 --> 1:53:48.960 is doing specifically to actually like shutting down the democratic process, 1:53:49.439 --> 1:53:52.040 like it has been so focused on, just like the 1:53:52.120 --> 1:53:54.760 trolling and the spreading of anti Semitic rhetoric, which are 1:53:55.360 --> 1:53:58.760 big problems, but I think there's been a little bit 1:53:58.800 --> 1:54:00.880 less of a focus on the actually looking at this 1:54:01.400 --> 1:54:05.519 as a deliberate tactic being employed to remove people's ability 1:54:05.520 --> 1:54:09.320 to engage democratically in the city or school board or 1:54:09.520 --> 1:54:12.280 wherever they live. And I think viewing it as a 1:54:12.280 --> 1:54:15.920 deliberate tactic like that like you've been talking about, but 1:54:16.000 --> 1:54:17.880 both gets like a better look at how these neo 1:54:17.960 --> 1:54:21.479 Nazis are trying to organize. But also it's a more 1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:26.559 holistic approach towards why is this happening, And it can 1:54:26.600 --> 1:54:28.040 allow you to look at this as more of a 1:54:28.120 --> 1:54:33.120 tactical decision less than just kind of random trolling slurs XD, 1:54:33.720 --> 1:54:36.640 which it can be kind of reduced to, which is 1:54:36.760 --> 1:54:40.520 at the very least incomplete way of looking at this phenomenon, 1:54:40.880 --> 1:54:42.720 if not just kind of wholly inaccurate. 1:54:43.240 --> 1:54:44.720 I mean, I don't want to give them too much credit, 1:54:44.800 --> 1:54:48.200 right like they didn't have a brainstorming session where they 1:54:48.280 --> 1:54:52.080 were thinking about ways to contribute to the death of democracy. 1:54:52.120 --> 1:54:55.400 I think that's sort of a phenomenon. 1:54:54.800 --> 1:54:57.360 That occurred as a result of their actions that they 1:54:57.400 --> 1:55:01.600 then saw and appreciated. Right They don't understand it, but 1:55:01.640 --> 1:55:04.600 I don't think they intended it from the outset. But 1:55:04.760 --> 1:55:06.800 at this point it's hard to deny that that is 1:55:06.840 --> 1:55:07.960 something they're doing on purpose. 1:55:08.240 --> 1:55:11.280 And that's just been an interesting trend with the GDL specifically, 1:55:11.640 --> 1:55:15.640 especially considering the legislation trying to crack down on political flying, 1:55:16.360 --> 1:55:19.680 which we might talk about at a later date. But yeah, 1:55:19.680 --> 1:55:24.720 it's been a interesting watching the GDLs as political FORCET, yes, 1:55:24.840 --> 1:55:27.680 is like annoying and bad in the rhetoric they spread, 1:55:27.680 --> 1:55:32.320 but also they've had this interesting ability to just either 1:55:32.440 --> 1:55:36.879 affect legislation or like shut down people's ability to engage 1:55:36.880 --> 1:55:40.320 with politics in their local area in a few notable ways. 1:55:40.400 --> 1:55:43.680 So it's important to sort of sit for a minute 1:55:43.720 --> 1:55:45.720 before you react to people like this, Right, Like you 1:55:45.720 --> 1:55:47.840 were talking about that legislation that's going to end up 1:55:48.160 --> 1:55:50.440 infringing on a lot of people's political speech, right, Like, 1:55:50.640 --> 1:55:53.120 you can't just react to the troll. You have to 1:55:53.160 --> 1:55:54.960 sort of think about the context in which this is 1:55:54.960 --> 1:55:58.600 occurring and make a reasonable choice about how to react 1:55:58.640 --> 1:56:01.800 so you don't end up giving them what they want 1:56:01.880 --> 1:56:05.040 basically right, because they love the attention. 1:56:05.120 --> 1:56:05.920 They love the attention. 1:56:06.000 --> 1:56:07.360 Every time they do this, it ends up on the 1:56:07.360 --> 1:56:10.360 local news. People are talking about it, people are repeating 1:56:10.360 --> 1:56:12.520 their message, and you don't need to give them that. 1:56:15.160 --> 1:56:17.680 Well, thank you Molly for putting this together. This has 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:21.960 been very enlightening, if slightly upsetting, but that is kind 1:56:22.000 --> 1:56:24.320 of it's kind that's kind of the entire bit we 1:56:24.400 --> 1:56:28.600 do here. That's sort of the show. Huh. Where can 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:29.879 people find your work online? 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:33.480 You can find me on Twitter. I will never call 1:56:33.520 --> 1:56:36.920 it x socialist dog mom. And in keeping with the 1:56:36.920 --> 1:56:39.440 spirit of this episode, most of what I use my 1:56:39.480 --> 1:56:42.960 Twitter account for is live tweeting my local city government meetings. 1:56:43.000 --> 1:56:45.880 I've been doing that for god seven years now, so 1:56:45.920 --> 1:56:47.920 this is a subject that's near and dear to my heart. 1:56:47.960 --> 1:56:49.680 I love engaging with municipal government. 1:56:51.640 --> 1:56:52.360 Fantastic. 1:56:54.120 --> 1:56:56.960 Yeah, I've attended more city council meetings the last year 1:56:57.040 --> 1:57:00.160 than I have ever before in my life. It has 1:57:00.160 --> 1:57:03.400 certainly been an experience a lot of wacky, wacky and 1:57:03.520 --> 1:57:05.960 unusual things happen in city council meetings. 1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:10.080 Thank you Garrison so much for joining me today, and 1:57:11.040 --> 1:57:15.120 hopefully we can bring listeners something even worse someday soon. 1:57:15.880 --> 1:57:20.320 Yeah yeah, stay tuned for more breaking Goham Defense League 1:57:20.360 --> 1:57:22.200 news find Dark. 1:57:36.200 --> 1:57:40.080 Hey everyone, this is it could happen here and I'm 1:57:40.120 --> 1:57:43.000 your guest host, Matt Leeb. I'd say most of you 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:46.840 probably know me from Robert and Sophie's podcast Behind the Bastards, 1:57:46.960 --> 1:57:49.680 which you know I've become kind of notorious for the 1:57:49.720 --> 1:57:52.760 time that I use a jar Jar Bank soundboard during 1:57:52.760 --> 1:57:55.640 a series about doctor Mangela. Yeah, I don't have that 1:57:55.720 --> 1:57:58.720 soundboard with me today. Sorry. Fewer of you might know 1:57:58.840 --> 1:58:02.200 me from having the world's only Sopranos Slash the Wire 1:58:02.320 --> 1:58:05.960 rewatch podcast pod Yourself a Gun. But the fewest of 1:58:06.000 --> 1:58:11.240 you might know me from my brand new podcast, Bad Hasbara, 1:58:11.480 --> 1:58:14.960 the world's most moral podcast, in which me and some 1:58:15.040 --> 1:58:18.600 of my other anti Zionist or non Zionist Jewish friends 1:58:19.000 --> 1:58:21.960 and our other friends and our other guests guests who 1:58:22.200 --> 1:58:26.040 you know you've maybe heard, like Charine here, we have 1:58:26.160 --> 1:58:32.440 casual conversations about Israeli propaganda and Israeli propagandists. For some 1:58:32.520 --> 1:58:35.280 of you, this might be your first time hearing the 1:58:35.320 --> 1:58:38.400 word has bara, and that's why the homies at cool 1:58:38.440 --> 1:58:42.320 Zone Media invited me here today. So this episode is 1:58:42.600 --> 1:58:49.400 all about has balalah aka Israel's public relations and propaganda machine, 1:58:49.640 --> 1:58:52.560 and I am thrilled to be joined by my friend 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:57.000 and one time cat sitter, churene Uness Hi Scheren. 1:58:57.200 --> 1:59:00.600 Hi, Matt. What an intro. Yeah, I'm excited to learn 1:59:00.600 --> 1:59:03.840 more about this. Actually, also excited to know how you 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:07.320 properly say hasbara, because I don't know I say it right. 1:59:07.520 --> 1:59:14.320 But lah, Yeah, it's yeah, that's I mean, sound in 1:59:14.440 --> 1:59:17.720 the yeah, the law, you know, within with the throat 1:59:18.480 --> 1:59:19.880 has bah. 1:59:22.120 --> 1:59:23.640 You heard it here first. 1:59:23.960 --> 1:59:26.880 Yes, you heard it here first. I'm not I'm not 1:59:27.160 --> 1:59:30.040 the greatest at doing you know, Israeli accents or whatnot. 1:59:30.120 --> 1:59:33.760 So throughout this podcast, I'm probably going to be butchering 1:59:34.080 --> 1:59:37.280 a lot of Hebrew words. Uh and uh you know, 1:59:37.920 --> 1:59:39.560 just you're just gonna have to deal with it. 1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:42.560 Yeah, and that's totally fine. That's just part of the game. 1:59:42.640 --> 1:59:46.240 I've pronounced every every name I've ever said on this. 1:59:46.240 --> 1:59:49.120 Show, So yeah, yeah, I mean you should hear me 1:59:49.320 --> 1:59:53.800 trying to pronounce Arabic names like I can't do it. 1:59:53.720 --> 1:59:57.600 It's I mean, I attempt, Yes, that would if there's 1:59:57.640 --> 2:00:01.600 any that happened in this episode, please, But before we 2:00:01.720 --> 2:00:05.080 get into talking about has Bah blah, I want to 2:00:05.120 --> 2:00:10.360 start with a quick story, Sarin. Are you familiar with 2:00:10.920 --> 2:00:12.600 the Birthright Trip? 2:00:13.280 --> 2:00:14.280 Yes, I am. 2:00:14.680 --> 2:00:17.400 It was one of those things where I was very 2:00:17.400 --> 2:00:20.080 excited to one day do the Birthright Trip and I 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:22.560 didn't really even question. I knew, like you know, it 2:00:22.640 --> 2:00:24.960 was a little bit, you know, they were trying to 2:00:25.560 --> 2:00:29.600 whine and dine me to go there and you know, 2:00:29.760 --> 2:00:34.840 maybe move or whatnot. But I didn't know how much 2:00:35.280 --> 2:00:38.560 they wanted me to move there until I went. So 2:00:39.360 --> 2:00:41.960 for me, my Birthright trip is kind of why I'm 2:00:42.000 --> 2:00:46.040 here today talking about Hasbara. It's why I started a 2:00:46.080 --> 2:00:49.760 freaking podcast about it. It's when I first started clocking 2:00:50.920 --> 2:00:57.560 Israeli propaganda. So I went in January twenty twelve. If 2:00:57.600 --> 2:01:00.000 you don't know Birthright, it's pretty much a two weeks, 2:01:00.160 --> 2:01:03.040 all expenses paid trip for young Jews from all over 2:01:03.080 --> 2:01:05.640 the world to go to the Holy Land, reconnect with 2:01:05.680 --> 2:01:08.440 their Jewish roots, float in the dead seat. It is 2:01:08.800 --> 2:01:15.040 a it is a propaganda tour of apartheid state. And 2:01:16.000 --> 2:01:17.840 you know, I'm not going to get too much into 2:01:17.840 --> 2:01:20.200 the history of Birthright, you know and all the like 2:01:20.320 --> 2:01:23.880 far right wing funders like Sheldon Adelson and stuff. There's 2:01:23.880 --> 2:01:26.240 like not enough time for that. But I'm mentioning it 2:01:26.280 --> 2:01:29.160 because it was the first time I saw how hasbara 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:33.480 was more than just propaganda, and how in my opinion, 2:01:33.480 --> 2:01:40.160 it more closely resembles like indoctrination, and the organizers at 2:01:40.240 --> 2:01:43.000 Birthright did like a masterful job of this. Like I 2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:46.560 went on a trip of American Jews who were like me, 2:01:46.920 --> 2:01:51.040 like they were like secular from mixed or like intermarried families, 2:01:51.200 --> 2:01:54.440 non bar mitzvud. It was all like other Matt Leib 2:01:54.560 --> 2:01:58.560 type Jews, like ethnic Jews, right, And I realized this. 2:01:58.960 --> 2:02:02.680 I think it was like day two of the trip. 2:02:03.080 --> 2:02:07.200 One of the Israeli tour guides literally gave us a 2:02:07.240 --> 2:02:10.720 bar mitzvah, like all at the same time we had 2:02:10.760 --> 2:02:14.520 a group bar mitzvah. Yeah, And they did it by 2:02:14.560 --> 2:02:18.880 saying like Okay, well now bab mitzvah. It just means 2:02:18.920 --> 2:02:21.480 you're a man. Now, everyone here is a man. Now, 2:02:21.640 --> 2:02:26.200 choose an Israeli name, and which was like for me, 2:02:26.320 --> 2:02:29.000 I remember feeling a little you know, I was like, wait, 2:02:31.120 --> 2:02:36.760 there's supposed to be a theme party and fucking like yeah, 2:02:36.760 --> 2:02:39.480 I supposed to yeah, DJ, my dad's gonna buy me 2:02:39.560 --> 2:02:41.680 a car, or at least me a like a Honda, 2:02:42.360 --> 2:02:44.440 Like I thought it was more than that, at the 2:02:44.520 --> 2:02:46.560 very least I thought I would have to like memorize 2:02:46.560 --> 2:02:48.720 a tour portion. But no, you just go to Israel 2:02:48.960 --> 2:02:51.200 and you know, a tour guy does it for you, 2:02:51.880 --> 2:02:55.000 so like it really works though, like you really you 2:02:55.400 --> 2:02:59.400 go there being like, you know, I'm European Jew, and 2:02:59.440 --> 2:03:03.120 you leave this and you're like I invented falafel. So 2:03:03.920 --> 2:03:08.040 the Hasbara highlight of the trip for me was this 2:03:08.160 --> 2:03:13.240 like mega like birthright mega event. It was in Jerusalem 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:19.480 and a huge arena in which they had like Israeli speakers, donors, rappers, 2:03:19.960 --> 2:03:22.480 and there was like a there were rappers at one 2:03:22.520 --> 2:03:27.080 point who just started rapping about things that they claim 2:03:27.560 --> 2:03:32.160 Israel invented, like iPhone, computer chips and like the cherry tomato, 2:03:33.160 --> 2:03:36.560 which was you know, like you And by the way, 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:41.000 a not insubstantial amount of the trip was spent telling 2:03:41.080 --> 2:03:45.440 us about how Israel invented the cherry tomato. Like we 2:03:45.520 --> 2:03:50.400 went to places like you know, farms and stuff where 2:03:50.440 --> 2:03:54.520 they showed us this like drip irrigation. Multiple people were 2:03:54.560 --> 2:03:57.280 just like, man, we invented the cherry tomato. Here can 2:03:57.320 --> 2:03:59.720 you believe it? And I was like, this seems like 2:03:59.720 --> 2:04:03.680 a lot of effort for just this one particular thing, 2:04:04.680 --> 2:04:09.720 which may or may not be true. But yeah, So 2:04:10.640 --> 2:04:14.720 the headliner of the mega event of that night, the 2:04:14.840 --> 2:04:19.000 cherry tomato on top, if you will, was a speech 2:04:19.640 --> 2:04:27.000 by none other than Prime Minister Benjamin Bibi Netanyahu. Straight up, 2:04:27.360 --> 2:04:32.160 the Prime Minister of Israel was the headline speaker of 2:04:32.200 --> 2:04:36.040 this birthright event and an arena filled with like twenty 2:04:36.120 --> 2:04:41.760 thousand teens and like early twenty somethings, which was kind 2:04:41.760 --> 2:04:47.040 of like amazing, Like you know, listen, here's the thing 2:04:47.080 --> 2:04:50.240 I knew Benjamin netnya who like I knew enough about 2:04:50.320 --> 2:04:54.640 Israeli politics to know that, like he was a fucking 2:04:54.760 --> 2:04:58.800 right winger and bad. But like I have to admit, 2:04:59.040 --> 2:05:01.480 even I, you know, as a twenty six year old 2:05:01.520 --> 2:05:04.600 who kind of was starting to get like woke on Palestine, 2:05:04.800 --> 2:05:06.840 you know, so to speak, Like even I was like 2:05:06.920 --> 2:05:09.839 kind of like, whoa this is. I'm a little charmed, 2:05:09.880 --> 2:05:12.360 a little honored to see the Prime minister here. He 2:05:12.400 --> 2:05:16.040 took time out of his busy schedule of doing crimes, 2:05:16.160 --> 2:05:21.280 probably to address us. And you know, I actually found 2:05:21.920 --> 2:05:25.600 the speech of that night. I actually have some clips 2:05:25.600 --> 2:05:26.760 from it that I want to play. 2:05:27.000 --> 2:05:28.760 That is incredible, that's great. 2:05:30.040 --> 2:05:33.320 So yeah, he was, he was like casual, he was 2:05:33.400 --> 2:05:34.160 off the cuff. 2:05:34.840 --> 2:05:36.400 They wrote a speech for me. I'm not going to 2:05:36.440 --> 2:05:36.760 read it. 2:05:41.320 --> 2:05:44.160 Like he even did a little bit of crowd work. 2:05:45.120 --> 2:05:46.480 Anyone here named Rachel. 2:05:47.400 --> 2:05:52.040 So that right there is what we in the Jewish 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:56.680 community call rachel profiling. That's when you just star in 2:05:56.760 --> 2:05:59.040 front of a group of Jews and you ask whose 2:05:59.160 --> 2:06:02.960 name to Rachel. Shout out to Rachel Blumenthal for telling 2:06:02.960 --> 2:06:04.840 me that joke. In college. It was it was like 2:06:04.880 --> 2:06:08.600 a crash course in Hesbara. Like he told us we 2:06:08.600 --> 2:06:10.840 were from Israel at one point. 2:06:11.920 --> 2:06:16.720 You all come from great countries, great countries. Did you 2:06:16.760 --> 2:06:22.240 all come from here? All of you? That's your birthright? 2:06:23.280 --> 2:06:26.160 He was telling us that. Like you know, once again, 2:06:26.200 --> 2:06:30.120 it was everything they invented, phone, you know, the cell phone, ships, 2:06:30.240 --> 2:06:32.680 blah blah blah. He was telling us to make aliat 2:06:32.720 --> 2:06:35.320 to Israel, which means to you know, move to return, 2:06:35.400 --> 2:06:39.360 to come back. You know. Essentially what he was vying 2:06:39.400 --> 2:06:43.000 for was like move to Israel and start a family. 2:06:43.040 --> 2:06:46.320 It's very like sex based, like the way it works. 2:06:46.480 --> 2:06:49.360 The big thing I took away was him telling us 2:06:49.960 --> 2:06:53.520 that he wanted us to go back home and tell 2:06:53.600 --> 2:06:56.320 people the truth about Israel. 2:06:56.840 --> 2:06:59.960 But the most important battle that we have to find 2:07:00.200 --> 2:07:02.840 is the battle for the truth. And all of you 2:07:02.880 --> 2:07:06.280 can become ambassadors for the truth and ambassadors for Israel. 2:07:06.720 --> 2:07:11.080 And of course you know, he then proceeded to tell 2:07:11.200 --> 2:07:13.720 us what the truth about Israel was. 2:07:14.440 --> 2:07:19.680 Go back your respective countries and tell the truth about Israel. 2:07:20.160 --> 2:07:22.160 Only way to fight a lives who tell the truth. 2:07:22.840 --> 2:07:26.960 Tell him about a country where people are free, free 2:07:27.000 --> 2:07:30.840 to initiate, free to work, free to speak. It's a 2:07:30.880 --> 2:07:33.160 country where you can criticize the Prime Minister although he 2:07:33.200 --> 2:07:37.360 never makes mistakes. This is a country which has in 2:07:37.400 --> 2:07:41.600 which Arabs have full right something they've been denied in 2:07:41.680 --> 2:07:44.520 all the vast lands around us. And a woman in 2:07:44.560 --> 2:07:48.320 this country can sit anywhere she wants. That's our position. 2:07:50.960 --> 2:07:52.880 This is a free country. 2:07:53.560 --> 2:07:58.480 So him going up there telling me that what he 2:07:58.560 --> 2:08:02.000 wants from me is to go back home and be 2:08:02.040 --> 2:08:04.880 an ambassador for Israel and tell the truth about Israel. 2:08:05.200 --> 2:08:07.800 You know, it was the first time I realized that 2:08:08.040 --> 2:08:10.560 he was giving me a job to do. And this 2:08:10.640 --> 2:08:13.520 is a job that I think a lot of Jewish 2:08:13.520 --> 2:08:16.760 people who may be listening to this podcast can relate 2:08:16.800 --> 2:08:21.240 to the job of telling the truth about Israel and 2:08:21.600 --> 2:08:25.960 the job of you know, stopping the slander that is 2:08:26.280 --> 2:08:30.080 out there about Israel in the media and on the 2:08:30.120 --> 2:08:33.920 internet and press and all that stuff. And it was 2:08:33.920 --> 2:08:36.280 the first time I realized that, like, oh, part of 2:08:36.320 --> 2:08:40.600 the hasbara isn't just you know, some government thing. It's 2:08:40.640 --> 2:08:44.280 like my job. My job is to is to tell 2:08:44.320 --> 2:08:47.120 the truth. And he said something in that clip, the 2:08:47.160 --> 2:08:51.160 only way to fight allies with the truth. And so 2:08:51.320 --> 2:08:55.080 I am going to follow his advice. That's what I'm 2:08:55.080 --> 2:08:57.640 going to do, Shreen. I'm going to tell people the 2:08:57.760 --> 2:09:03.320 truth about Israel. And I think it's time to do it. 2:09:03.360 --> 2:09:05.800 So let's get into it. Let's talk about the truth. 2:09:16.400 --> 2:09:20.520 Let's get into talking about hasbara. What is it? What 2:09:20.680 --> 2:09:25.040 is it? And so loosely, hasbara is it's a modern 2:09:25.120 --> 2:09:31.920 Hebrew word derived from the word las bier hasbier meaning 2:09:31.960 --> 2:09:36.680 to explain or explanation. I say loosely because it's kind 2:09:36.680 --> 2:09:39.120 of a made up word. So, you know, a lot 2:09:39.120 --> 2:09:42.880 of words in modern Hebrew are sort of made up words. Remember, 2:09:42.920 --> 2:09:46.280 Hebrew is like an ancient liturgical language, and modern Hebrew 2:09:46.360 --> 2:09:50.080 was created by like Jewish linguist nerds who wanted to 2:09:50.120 --> 2:09:53.320 revive the language to be a spoken one, and that's 2:09:53.360 --> 2:09:55.600 how you got modern Hebrew, which is fine, there's nothing 2:09:55.960 --> 2:10:00.400 wrong with reviving a dead language. But because of that, 2:10:00.520 --> 2:10:03.280 a lot of the words in modern Hebrew are kind 2:10:03.320 --> 2:10:09.120 of inventions. So, according to Mosaic Magazine, has bara is 2:10:09.680 --> 2:10:13.640 strictly a twentieth centuryism. You won't find it in Eliezer 2:10:13.720 --> 2:10:18.440 Benu Huda's a monumental Complete Dictionary of Ancient and Modern Hebrew, 2:10:18.680 --> 2:10:22.480 whose second volume, in which Hasbara appears only as the 2:10:22.520 --> 2:10:26.960 first word of hasbarat Panim, was published in nineteen oh two. 2:10:27.120 --> 2:10:30.240 So it's not something that you see in kind of 2:10:30.280 --> 2:10:34.480 like the original beginnings of you know, the creation of 2:10:34.520 --> 2:10:40.400 modern Hebrew. Like colloquially, hisbara like refers to like media 2:10:40.600 --> 2:10:44.360 pr branding, mud slinging. It's kind of a like a 2:10:44.440 --> 2:10:47.400 sort of like catch all term for general propaganda used 2:10:47.400 --> 2:10:50.920 to create a narrative based on Israeli government talking points 2:10:50.960 --> 2:10:55.720 meant for a foreign, usually American or just generally Western audience. 2:10:56.640 --> 2:11:01.240 People who deal in hasbara are called has barists has baristas, 2:11:01.360 --> 2:11:06.360 which is fun's that's true. Yeah, yeah, I mean listen, 2:11:06.600 --> 2:11:09.240 has barista, I think gives gives it a little bit 2:11:09.280 --> 2:11:12.360 more flair. You know, kind of imagine someone kind of 2:11:12.360 --> 2:11:14.880 like making you coffee, but instead of coffee, it's they 2:11:14.920 --> 2:11:15.600 make you lies. 2:11:17.760 --> 2:11:18.560 Nope, I'm not gonna do that. 2:11:18.600 --> 2:11:26.000 Sorry, I like it. I wish I never was born. Okay, Well, 2:11:26.040 --> 2:11:28.720 so there's all sorts of like has bars. Like some 2:11:28.800 --> 2:11:32.960 of them have like official positions within the Israeli government, 2:11:33.040 --> 2:11:37.640 such as the head of the IDF Spokesperson's unit, Daniel Hagari, 2:11:37.680 --> 2:11:40.280 who you might remember is the guy from that video 2:11:40.320 --> 2:11:44.680 taken at the you know, the children's hospital, you know, 2:11:44.760 --> 2:11:47.440 in Gaza, and he's like pointing at what he thought 2:11:47.520 --> 2:11:51.000 was a list of his Israeli hostages, but was like 2:11:51.160 --> 2:11:54.520 literally just a calendar didn't have any names. It was 2:11:54.600 --> 2:11:56.840 just he was pointing at days of the week thinking 2:11:57.000 --> 2:12:00.160 they were names, because that's what a calendar has. And 2:12:00.280 --> 2:12:04.440 also it's so fucking weird that they can't read Arabic, Like, yeah, 2:12:05.000 --> 2:12:07.960 you're in the Middle East, you are the spokesperson. 2:12:08.480 --> 2:12:12.080 I think something interesting about how Hebrew was revived as 2:12:12.120 --> 2:12:14.440 well is that a lot of words were taken from Arabic. 2:12:14.520 --> 2:12:16.840 A lot of words are very similar to Arabic. So 2:12:16.880 --> 2:12:20.720 it's like even more funny that they would they can't 2:12:20.720 --> 2:12:23.040 even read the language that they kind of took a 2:12:23.080 --> 2:12:24.640 lot of words from. 2:12:25.040 --> 2:12:28.000 But I'm saying that, like, yeah, in Israel, it's almost 2:12:28.040 --> 2:12:31.520 like the appropriation is just part of the process of 2:12:31.640 --> 2:12:35.280 the cleansing, you know, just like stealing something, saying it's 2:12:35.320 --> 2:12:39.240 ours and then not even being able to identify an 2:12:39.280 --> 2:12:44.000 Arabic word that you yourself say so, yeah, so there's him. 2:12:44.080 --> 2:12:47.160 Then there's like everyone if you've been on Twitter, you've 2:12:47.160 --> 2:12:51.320 seen a lot of Alon Levy who he's His official 2:12:51.360 --> 2:12:55.960 title is the official Israeli government spokesperson, and that's through 2:12:56.560 --> 2:12:59.280 the basically the office of the Prime Minister. He's a 2:12:59.280 --> 2:13:02.720 British guy, like he raises his eyebrows. It's like the meme, 2:13:03.040 --> 2:13:08.000 you know, like he goes like, oh, that's what he's 2:13:08.000 --> 2:13:11.520 famous for. Then there's a lot of these like non 2:13:11.600 --> 2:13:16.520 governmental like Israeli Civil Society, haspara organizations like Stand with 2:13:16.640 --> 2:13:21.320 Us or like a PAK, the Washington Institute for Near 2:13:21.400 --> 2:13:25.720 East Policy, the Anti Defamation League, Christians United for Israel, 2:13:25.840 --> 2:13:31.000 the Israel on Campus Coalition. I mean, there are tons 2:13:31.040 --> 2:13:33.840 of them, tons of them. And then of course there's 2:13:33.920 --> 2:13:35.400 people who are just in it for the love of 2:13:35.440 --> 2:13:39.280 the game, like celebrities, artists, you know, actors, you know, 2:13:39.320 --> 2:13:43.200 who make like Israel public advocacy part of their thing. 2:13:43.360 --> 2:13:47.840 It's a fascinating world filled with ghouls and goblins. So 2:13:48.120 --> 2:13:52.920 the word his bara itself, interestingly is hasbara. So early 2:13:53.000 --> 2:13:57.240 Zionists had no problem calling their pr campaigns and like 2:13:57.320 --> 2:14:01.160 they're branding for a Jewish state and Palestine propaganda. They 2:14:01.200 --> 2:14:03.720 would say, it's we got to do propaganda, because in 2:14:03.720 --> 2:14:08.000 the early twentieth twentieth century, the term was generally considered 2:14:08.080 --> 2:14:10.960 to be neutral, like people said they were doing propaganda 2:14:11.000 --> 2:14:14.800 when they were doing propaganda. Once the word became a pejorative, 2:14:15.280 --> 2:14:17.360 they created the word has borrow, which is a nicer 2:14:17.400 --> 2:14:21.200 sounding word with more neutral connotations. And although it's now 2:14:21.600 --> 2:14:24.320 used as a pejorative by critics of Israel and me 2:14:24.520 --> 2:14:27.160 and stuff, the word is still used to this day 2:14:27.520 --> 2:14:31.240 in Israel. It is still a fairly neutral sounding word. 2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:35.600 There are has Borrow workshops sponsored by Israel. They have 2:14:35.840 --> 2:14:38.880 has Barra Fellowships. That's the name of the fellowship. Like 2:14:38.920 --> 2:14:42.240 you can get merch that says has bar A Fellowship 2:14:42.280 --> 2:14:45.440 on it. And the reason is because it doesn't translate. 2:14:45.480 --> 2:14:48.720 The word isn't translate to propaganda. It just means to explain, 2:14:48.840 --> 2:14:51.720 which is you know, seems innocent enough. It's not about 2:14:52.320 --> 2:14:55.879 doing propaganda. It's not about they don't call themselves liars. 2:14:55.920 --> 2:14:59.080 They're not saying I'm going to lie. They say they're 2:14:59.120 --> 2:15:05.440 merely just explaining. And I found this speech from the 2:15:05.480 --> 2:15:10.800 Middle East Policy Council that goes into depth about what 2:15:11.040 --> 2:15:16.760 has Bar is beyond. Just like propaganda, quote has Bar 2:15:16.960 --> 2:15:21.160 links information warfare to the strategic efforts of the state 2:15:21.240 --> 2:15:24.000 to bolster the unity of the home front, ensure the 2:15:24.160 --> 2:15:28.879 support of allies, disrupt efforts to organize hostile coalitions, determine 2:15:28.880 --> 2:15:32.320 the way issues are defined by the media, the intelligentsia, 2:15:32.400 --> 2:15:36.560 the social networks. Established parameters of politically correct discourse, de 2:15:36.760 --> 2:15:40.600 legitimize both critics and their arguments, and shape the common 2:15:40.680 --> 2:15:47.600 understanding and interpretation of the results of international negotiations. So 2:15:47.720 --> 2:15:53.680 behind this term is a large, well funded information warfare 2:15:53.720 --> 2:15:58.120 apparatus dedicated to shaping Israeli discourse in the media and 2:15:58.160 --> 2:16:03.520 the government and academic insutions everywhere. And they use all 2:16:03.560 --> 2:16:07.480 of the tools in their toolbox to silence criticism of Israel, 2:16:07.640 --> 2:16:12.960 and what they can't silence, they soften. Sometimes it's through 2:16:13.040 --> 2:16:18.200 coordinated letter writing campaigns. Sometimes it's harassment. Sometimes it's dosing. 2:16:18.520 --> 2:16:21.680 You know, people have been docked. So before I continue, 2:16:21.720 --> 2:16:24.360 I want to address that uncomfortable feeling you had when 2:16:24.400 --> 2:16:27.560 I talked about like Israel and the media. I want 2:16:27.600 --> 2:16:30.920 to say that is that is not to say that 2:16:31.040 --> 2:16:35.320 Israel or the Israel Lobby or Zionists quote control the media, 2:16:35.360 --> 2:16:39.720 all right, So they do not. That's why hasbara exists, 2:16:40.360 --> 2:16:42.840 you know, That's why the Israel lobby exists. If they 2:16:42.879 --> 2:16:47.200 controlled the media, they wouldn't have groups like Camera, for example, 2:16:47.320 --> 2:16:50.720 constantly day in and day out, harassing the New York 2:16:50.760 --> 2:16:54.160 Times and CNN and PBS to get them to talk 2:16:54.200 --> 2:16:59.160 about Israel correctly. Okay, So it's important when people hear 2:16:59.200 --> 2:17:02.760 these criticisms of Israel that they don't try to see 2:17:02.800 --> 2:17:08.040 them as like otherizing Israel or like you know a 2:17:08.080 --> 2:17:10.120 lot of people, they get uncomfortable because a lot of 2:17:10.120 --> 2:17:14.320 these things will match old anti Semitic tropes. But it's 2:17:14.360 --> 2:17:19.879 important to remember that these lobbying groups exist in Israel. 2:17:20.080 --> 2:17:23.360 They exist in the gun lobby, in the big oil lobby. 2:17:23.600 --> 2:17:27.240 This is not unique to Israel. The unique thing about 2:17:27.280 --> 2:17:32.240 it is how willing the American public is and the 2:17:32.240 --> 2:17:37.440 West in general is to letting themselves be live to 2:17:38.080 --> 2:17:41.160 That's why I'm interested in it. But let's talk about 2:17:41.200 --> 2:17:44.600 Camera real quick, because this is a recent thing that happened. 2:17:45.560 --> 2:17:49.760 Some news happened recently about the New York Times and 2:17:49.800 --> 2:17:53.240 their connection to CAMERA. This is from a recent article 2:17:53.280 --> 2:17:57.720 in The Intercept. The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East 2:17:57.760 --> 2:18:01.440 Reporting and Analysis, or CAMERA, was founded in nineteen eighty 2:18:01.440 --> 2:18:04.880 two in response to what it claims was anti Israel 2:18:04.959 --> 2:18:08.800 bias in the Washington Post reporting on the Israeli invasion 2:18:08.800 --> 2:18:12.480 of Lebanon. Since its inception, CAMERA has successfully lobbied for 2:18:12.840 --> 2:18:16.720 hundreds of corrections in major media outlets seeking to streamline 2:18:16.760 --> 2:18:19.920 a pro Israel line in news reports and editorials. It 2:18:20.000 --> 2:18:23.280 is mere journalists whose work it disagrees with and launched 2:18:23.280 --> 2:18:27.600 boycott campaigns against news organizations it believes are not responding 2:18:27.640 --> 2:18:31.560 with enough deference to its requests. So the way this 2:18:31.760 --> 2:18:35.000 group operates is that they go through any and every 2:18:35.080 --> 2:18:39.640 article about Israel, looking for sentences, looking for terms, definitions, 2:18:39.680 --> 2:18:43.960 anything they disagree with, and lobby for corrections to be issued. 2:18:44.000 --> 2:18:47.880 Camera doesn't do this quietly. They openly brag about it 2:18:47.920 --> 2:18:51.879 on their website. Like recently, Camera successfully lobbied The New 2:18:51.959 --> 2:18:55.160 York Times to issue a correction removing the word occupation 2:18:56.160 --> 2:18:58.760 from an article, and they wrote this on their website. 2:18:58.959 --> 2:19:02.920 Quote the ask slipped for their New York Times reporters 2:19:03.000 --> 2:19:08.320 Kum Hamas stenographers this week when they absolutely neglected to 2:19:08.400 --> 2:19:12.959 done down Hamas's preferred language before passing off the terror 2:19:13.120 --> 2:19:18.440 organization's talking points as original reporting. Take notice of the 2:19:18.480 --> 2:19:22.039 framing of The New York Times and their mask slipping 2:19:22.240 --> 2:19:27.000 and their reporters as being stenographers for Hamas. This is 2:19:27.080 --> 2:19:31.560 like quite the accusation, given that The New York Times 2:19:31.600 --> 2:19:35.720 is like has and continues to have coverage described as 2:19:35.800 --> 2:19:41.199 biased in favor of Israel Like. According to an Intercept analysis, 2:19:41.200 --> 2:19:43.640 it was found that in the first six weeks of 2:19:43.680 --> 2:19:49.039 the war, New York Times consistently delegitimized Palestinian deaths and 2:19:49.080 --> 2:19:54.119 cultivated a gross imbalance in coverage to pro Israeli sources 2:19:54.160 --> 2:19:58.440 and voices. So the exact opposite of what Camera is 2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:02.160 claiming is the truth here. You know, this is this 2:20:02.280 --> 2:20:05.080 is actually a famous hes bar A tactic. It is 2:20:05.120 --> 2:20:09.880 the I am rubber, you are glue tactic. And it's 2:20:09.959 --> 2:20:12.760 really something to see it in action, Like I don't know, 2:20:13.080 --> 2:20:16.840 suring if you've seen how often you've like read some 2:20:17.560 --> 2:20:22.400 pro Israeli voices, you know, has Baris online and heard 2:20:22.440 --> 2:20:25.520 them say stuff that you're like, I know for a fact, 2:20:25.720 --> 2:20:28.240 the exact opposite of this thing is true, you know 2:20:28.320 --> 2:20:28.760 what I mean? 2:20:29.000 --> 2:20:34.440 Yeah, every accusation is a confession. It feels like that 2:20:34.600 --> 2:20:36.760 is true all the time when it comes to the stuff. 2:20:36.760 --> 2:20:39.520 And also the intercept article is very good. I'll put 2:20:39.560 --> 2:20:41.280 in the description for those who to read the whole thing. 2:20:41.280 --> 2:20:43.320 I'm glad you mentioned that because I didn't know that 2:20:43.400 --> 2:20:45.840 much about Camera until I read that article, and I 2:20:45.879 --> 2:20:48.680 was just like, what, like, of course I knew that 2:20:48.720 --> 2:20:51.080 that was a thing that was that was done like 2:20:51.120 --> 2:20:53.440 they would change words. Recently, The New York Times was 2:20:53.520 --> 2:20:55.920 like a decline of death or life. Like they use 2:20:55.959 --> 2:20:58.080 the word decline to describe. 2:20:58.040 --> 2:21:01.560 To describe what was happening in Gaza. They decided the 2:21:01.720 --> 2:21:06.039 articles headline was going to be like death's actually declining in. 2:21:06.160 --> 2:21:09.280 Gaza exactly, and like the standard ones are always there, 2:21:09.320 --> 2:21:12.560 like blast or conflict or whatever it is. Those are 2:21:13.160 --> 2:21:17.039 unfortunately so normal now. But to see it all laid 2:21:17.080 --> 2:21:19.600 out by the Intersect was really I'm really glad I 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:21.400 did that article so it will be in the description, 2:21:21.440 --> 2:21:23.240 and I'm glad you mentioned it. But it does go 2:21:23.360 --> 2:21:26.560 back to the idea that every accusation is a confession. 2:21:26.560 --> 2:21:28.480 I think that's something to remember every time you see 2:21:28.959 --> 2:21:29.760 a headline. 2:21:29.920 --> 2:21:34.360 It's true, and it's something that you know. It's almost 2:21:34.360 --> 2:21:37.920 become a cliche online because I've seen it so many 2:21:37.959 --> 2:21:41.959 times people saying that, and I think it's important to 2:21:41.959 --> 2:21:46.640 remember that this is sort of the tactic of hesbara. 2:21:46.840 --> 2:21:51.959 Like what makes hesbara particularly notable and like often hilarious 2:21:52.040 --> 2:21:54.200 is that it doesn't merely just spin narratives, but it 2:21:54.280 --> 2:21:59.480 inverts them to essentially make like an alternate reality. It's 2:21:59.520 --> 2:22:03.280 not just that has bara is information warfare. Has Bara 2:22:03.440 --> 2:22:08.800 is straight up info wars like Alex Jones level shit 2:22:09.520 --> 2:22:13.440 the same way. Alex Jones will run the same like 2:22:13.760 --> 2:22:19.840 fantastical paranoid thread to every major news event that happens 2:22:19.879 --> 2:22:22.560 in order to reinforce his worldview and prove that he's 2:22:22.640 --> 2:22:25.119 right and everyone else is wrong. You know, Like that's 2:22:25.440 --> 2:22:28.360 Israel does this, but with like far more money and 2:22:28.520 --> 2:22:31.680 far greater success, and it kind of makes sense why 2:22:31.680 --> 2:22:36.160 they're successful at it, Like Alex Jones Info Wars shit 2:22:36.320 --> 2:22:40.360 like praise on white Christian paranoia that like the Blacks 2:22:40.360 --> 2:22:42.320 are trying to take away our guns so they can 2:22:42.400 --> 2:22:46.800 make our children trans or whatever, like total fantasy in 2:22:46.959 --> 2:22:49.840 saying shit that you have to be like already far 2:22:49.959 --> 2:22:54.039 right wing to believe, well, like Israeli info Wars praise 2:22:54.120 --> 2:22:57.880 on a much more grounded in reality paranoia that of 2:22:58.000 --> 2:23:03.520 anti Semitism, Like anti Semitism, it's historical, it's evil, it's pervasive, 2:23:03.560 --> 2:23:07.599 it's pernicious. Like this kind of paranoia makes sense, and 2:23:07.640 --> 2:23:10.000 not just for Jews, but like for anyone of conscience, 2:23:10.280 --> 2:23:16.120 anyone who has empathy, you know, like that they understand 2:23:16.560 --> 2:23:19.360 anti Semitism is bad and needs to be fought, and 2:23:19.400 --> 2:23:24.040 that makes Hasbara very effective. You know, people want to 2:23:24.080 --> 2:23:27.320 support Israel because people want to support the Jewish people 2:23:27.600 --> 2:23:30.080 and they want to fight anti Semitism. And when the 2:23:30.120 --> 2:23:33.320 IDF dismantles a children's hospital and says we had to 2:23:33.360 --> 2:23:37.119 do it to stop Pomas. Look, here's a list of hostages. 2:23:37.959 --> 2:23:41.800 People want to believe them. It's like Molder from the 2:23:42.000 --> 2:23:46.039 X Files, like I want to believe, which is the 2:23:46.040 --> 2:23:49.360 same impulse as Alex Jones believers. Essentially, like you don't 2:23:49.360 --> 2:23:52.320 want Sandy Hook to be a possibility. You want it 2:23:52.360 --> 2:23:55.120 to be a conspiracy to take your guns away. You 2:23:55.200 --> 2:23:59.680 want those children to be secretly actors pretending to be dead. 2:24:00.240 --> 2:24:02.680 So like when Israel says we aren't killing children, we're 2:24:02.760 --> 2:24:04.760 killing hamas, people want to believe that. 2:24:05.920 --> 2:24:08.440 And yeah, let's just say hate that you compared Fox 2:24:08.480 --> 2:24:11.280 Mulder to the like you dragged him into this and 2:24:11.320 --> 2:24:12.200 I'll get over it. 2:24:12.240 --> 2:24:16.640 But I'm sorry to you know, to bring him into 2:24:16.680 --> 2:24:20.959 this conversation. But you know, I'm just saying, Molder, if 2:24:20.959 --> 2:24:23.240 he wants to believe that stuff, what else does he 2:24:23.280 --> 2:24:26.760 want to believe? You just hope, you really hope and 2:24:26.800 --> 2:24:28.800 pray that he's not going to fall for the hasbara, 2:24:28.959 --> 2:24:32.720 but he might know you really don't, and it's like, 2:24:33.080 --> 2:24:35.440 you know, it's his bar is effective because it gives 2:24:35.480 --> 2:24:40.480 you something like a nice, legitimate sounding explanation for why 2:24:40.600 --> 2:24:44.000 Israel needed to do something that you might usually think 2:24:44.120 --> 2:24:48.080 is bad. Like that's how it's worked for decades, in 2:24:48.120 --> 2:24:50.840 the same way that hesbara serves to explain things for 2:24:51.000 --> 2:24:55.119 you to basically take the Israeli government at its word, 2:24:55.280 --> 2:24:57.000 that's kind of how it works. It gives you a 2:24:57.040 --> 2:24:59.960 believable explanation and not only sounds like kind of real, 2:25:00.240 --> 2:25:05.640 but you know, conforms to your personal beliefs. And yeah, 2:25:05.680 --> 2:25:10.640 but speaking of personal beliefs, if there's one thing, oh, 2:25:10.720 --> 2:25:12.960 let's see if I can do this. If there's one 2:25:13.000 --> 2:25:19.039 thing I'd love to believe in, it's commerce. And so yes, 2:25:19.160 --> 2:25:21.800 I mean listen, people will have to make money somehow, 2:25:22.080 --> 2:25:25.960 so it looks like we have some products and services 2:25:25.959 --> 2:25:30.160 that we have to sell. And yeah, when they sell 2:25:30.200 --> 2:25:33.360 you these these products and services, please believe them when 2:25:33.360 --> 2:25:47.039 they say how good they are. And we are back. 2:25:48.320 --> 2:25:52.600 So we were talking about hespara and how you know, 2:25:52.840 --> 2:25:57.119 the explanations conform to your personal beliefs. The interesting thing 2:25:57.160 --> 2:26:01.520 about asbara is that they have different types of hespara 2:26:01.640 --> 2:26:05.320 for a wide range of personal beliefs. It's not one 2:26:05.360 --> 2:26:08.080 size fits all. It depends on who you are. There's 2:26:08.120 --> 2:26:12.039 a conservative version and there's a liberal version like Israel. 2:26:12.879 --> 2:26:16.720 Israel has been very successful and their ability to brand 2:26:16.720 --> 2:26:20.879 themselves is both a liberal democracy and a outpost for 2:26:20.959 --> 2:26:26.920 Western values fighting the Muslim hordes. Usually these strategies have 2:26:27.000 --> 2:26:31.520 been like pretty separated, right, you know, like you can't 2:26:31.840 --> 2:26:36.039 claim you can't do them at the same time, it'll 2:26:36.080 --> 2:26:39.880 sound weird. It's like Israel is the only gay friendly, 2:26:40.040 --> 2:26:43.560 climate conscious, feminist democracy and that's why we got to 2:26:43.600 --> 2:26:50.120 do genocide. Like that doesn't that doesn't sound right. Like 2:26:50.160 --> 2:26:55.000 you tell the city dwelling liberal elites about the gay stuff, 2:26:55.440 --> 2:26:59.440 you tell the conservative Christians about the Western civilization stuff. 2:26:59.480 --> 2:27:03.760 That's kind of how it works. The basic conservative hissbara 2:27:03.760 --> 2:27:06.920 doesn't actually interest me all that much because it's I 2:27:06.959 --> 2:27:08.840 don't know, they don't have to work that hard at 2:27:08.840 --> 2:27:12.040 getting conservatives to be okay with killing Muslims. You know, 2:27:12.200 --> 2:27:16.000 it's like Muslims Arabs, you know, they they're they're fully 2:27:16.360 --> 2:27:18.879 willing to You don't even have to like couch it 2:27:18.920 --> 2:27:19.480 in something. 2:27:19.640 --> 2:27:21.080 No, that's just what happens to us. 2:27:21.160 --> 2:27:24.560 That's it's fine, right, And it's interesting too because like 2:27:24.600 --> 2:27:30.160 this idea of of you know, being a Western outpost, 2:27:30.879 --> 2:27:34.080 an outpost for Western values is not like that is 2:27:34.200 --> 2:27:40.879 very much falling into the almost the whiteness thing of 2:27:40.959 --> 2:27:44.440 Europeans where you kind of like because Jews, like European 2:27:44.440 --> 2:27:49.039 Afy Semitism wasn't about how Jews had Western values. It 2:27:49.120 --> 2:27:52.440 was about how Jews represented this other, this this thing 2:27:52.560 --> 2:27:54.840 that you know, they don't they didn't share values. There 2:27:54.879 --> 2:27:59.160 were some weird other thing and you know, this was 2:27:59.240 --> 2:28:03.560 not the the charge of anti Semitism in Europe. And 2:28:03.600 --> 2:28:07.160 now with like Israeli propaganda towards you know that's aimed 2:28:07.200 --> 2:28:12.160 towards conservative Westerners, they're like, no, no, we're the most Western, 2:28:12.360 --> 2:28:14.920 like we're so Western that we're gonna be the ones 2:28:15.040 --> 2:28:18.760 who are on the front lines stopping the evil, you know, 2:28:18.959 --> 2:28:23.200 Arab ports. And yeah, but it's like the that's interesting, 2:28:23.360 --> 2:28:25.840 you know in some aspects, but it's the liberal stuff. 2:28:26.240 --> 2:28:31.320 Sureen liberal hasbara is where the lies get so wild, 2:28:32.440 --> 2:28:34.640 Like that's the stuff that I grew up with. 2:28:34.840 --> 2:28:39.920 You know, yeah, no, it really the pink washing in 2:28:39.920 --> 2:28:42.600 particular is like one of yes, it's just they're they're 2:28:42.640 --> 2:28:47.640 so egregious in their use of using like the gay 2:28:47.680 --> 2:28:50.480 struggle for their own agenda. It's really really gross. 2:28:51.080 --> 2:28:55.600 Yeah, and it's and it's weird at how effective it 2:28:55.680 --> 2:28:58.440 is or how effective it has been for so long, 2:28:58.600 --> 2:29:01.119 because it is something that I think. I think it's 2:29:01.200 --> 2:29:04.600 kind of like the first stop on the Hasbaratri. You know, 2:29:04.640 --> 2:29:07.959 when you are hearing someone kind of like talking about 2:29:07.959 --> 2:29:10.320 why we need to stand with Israel, they will start 2:29:10.640 --> 2:29:15.240 right there with the you know, the pro gay rights stuff. 2:29:15.760 --> 2:29:18.840 And it's like, the reason I find it interesting is 2:29:18.879 --> 2:29:25.160 like Israel's so effectively been able to like brand itself 2:29:25.160 --> 2:29:28.280 as representing and supporting all these positive liberal traits. Well, 2:29:28.720 --> 2:29:31.440 well a lot of it is just not true. Like, 2:29:31.520 --> 2:29:34.879 for example, liberals are pro LGBT rights, right, you know, 2:29:35.120 --> 2:29:39.080 they they love gays, they love gay rights, and that's 2:29:39.120 --> 2:29:42.480 a good thing, of course, and yet gay marriage is 2:29:42.520 --> 2:29:46.640 illegal in Israel. It is illegal. It's also a mixed 2:29:46.680 --> 2:29:51.120 faith marriages are also illegal in Israel. They will recognize 2:29:51.160 --> 2:29:54.120 those marriages, but they will not perform them. You cannot 2:29:54.120 --> 2:29:57.520 get gay married, you cannot get interfaith married in Israel. 2:29:57.879 --> 2:30:01.720 If you're there performed abroad then and they will recognize them. 2:30:01.800 --> 2:30:06.199 That's kind of the loophole. Also, by the way, Palestinians 2:30:06.240 --> 2:30:08.640 from the West Bank or Gaza who Mariyan Israeli citizen 2:30:08.800 --> 2:30:12.760 cannot then get Israeli citizenship through that marriage. You also 2:30:12.840 --> 2:30:16.800 can't get Israeli citizenship if you marry in Israeli and 2:30:16.879 --> 2:30:21.320 you are from a quote enemy state that read Arab. 2:30:21.480 --> 2:30:23.920 If you want to know what the enemy states are, 2:30:24.640 --> 2:30:28.959 they mean Arabs. So you know, I don't know. Liberals 2:30:28.959 --> 2:30:33.000 should hate that. They should look at that and be like, well, 2:30:33.800 --> 2:30:37.200 I don't like that, you'd think, right. Another example, like 2:30:37.360 --> 2:30:42.200 liberals love democracy and they hate racism, yet believe Israel 2:30:42.440 --> 2:30:45.520 when they say they are a democracy, because they'll be like, 2:30:45.560 --> 2:30:49.000 we have you know, twenty percent Arab Muslim population, you know, 2:30:49.200 --> 2:30:54.160 two million and all with the right to vote. Meanwhile, 2:30:54.240 --> 2:30:57.720 they're like ignoring the five point three million Palestinians who 2:30:57.760 --> 2:31:00.440 are currently living in the West Bank and Gaza under 2:31:00.600 --> 2:31:04.560 military control by Israel. Like this is a situation was 2:31:04.680 --> 2:31:09.199 which has explicitly been called apartheid by most major human 2:31:09.280 --> 2:31:13.640 rights organizations, you know, human Rights Watch and it's the International, 2:31:13.920 --> 2:31:18.360 the International Federation for Human Rights, and even including Human 2:31:18.440 --> 2:31:22.240 Rights orgs in Israel, yesh Din and but sell them. 2:31:22.320 --> 2:31:26.240 They have all called this an apartheid state, and apartheid 2:31:26.320 --> 2:31:30.440 to you know, to be clear, is racist and I'm 2:31:30.480 --> 2:31:33.320 against it, yes, and I think most liberals would say 2:31:33.320 --> 2:31:36.520 they're against it. Don't you think sharam like something you 2:31:36.560 --> 2:31:39.320 would hope. So that's kind of like part of the 2:31:39.480 --> 2:31:47.320 thing with the liberal You're like, I don't like bad people, right, yeah, yeah, 2:31:47.480 --> 2:31:50.600 but you know it's it's once again, it's this thing 2:31:50.640 --> 2:31:52.840 where we're willing to be like, oh, they say they're 2:31:52.840 --> 2:31:57.520 a democracy, and therefore I believe it, and I think 2:31:57.600 --> 2:32:00.920 it's you know, you have to remember that like Israel's 2:32:01.480 --> 2:32:05.280 got like a caveat for all this stuff. It's usually 2:32:05.280 --> 2:32:09.280 they'll say, you know, their credentials are touted with this 2:32:09.560 --> 2:32:13.520 like in the Middle East, the most gay friendly in 2:32:13.600 --> 2:32:16.480 the Middle East, or the only democracy in the Middle East. 2:32:16.760 --> 2:32:18.760 But like, once again, that kind of only serves to 2:32:19.000 --> 2:32:23.119 implicitly condemn those enemy states you know, filled with Arabs, 2:32:23.160 --> 2:32:26.760 is being racist and backwards and homophobic and anti democratic 2:32:26.800 --> 2:32:31.000 and therefore unworthy of liberal sympathies. So it's you know, 2:32:31.040 --> 2:32:33.640 you liberals will look at it and they'll go like, well, 2:32:33.680 --> 2:32:39.480 I mean compared to Iraq, and you know they of course, 2:32:39.760 --> 2:32:44.959 it's like forgetting why the Middle East is the way 2:32:45.000 --> 2:32:47.840 the Middle East is. You know, they they will there's 2:32:47.879 --> 2:32:50.800 a complete like vacuum, like everything exists in a vacuum 2:32:50.800 --> 2:32:53.800 when it comes to American imperialism. So you don't but 2:32:54.080 --> 2:32:57.800 you just want to believe that Arabs are backwards people 2:32:58.320 --> 2:33:02.960 rather than looking at any kind of like Western imperial complicity. 2:33:03.360 --> 2:33:07.800 But also like reinforcing this like racist backwards stereotype also 2:33:08.800 --> 2:33:12.080 like dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians to such a 2:33:12.120 --> 2:33:15.080 degree where people can't overlook genocide. Now, you know, like 2:33:15.160 --> 2:33:15.520 it's all. 2:33:15.520 --> 2:33:17.880 Part of that, it's all part of that. 2:33:18.240 --> 2:33:21.440 Yes, they're different, they're not like us. They don't like 2:33:21.560 --> 2:33:24.520 gay people, they don't women stand up or whatever the 2:33:24.520 --> 2:33:27.240 fuck it is. It's just like it's it really is 2:33:27.280 --> 2:33:30.120 infuriating because you wonder, like how can this happen? It's 2:33:30.120 --> 2:33:32.520 because of little stuff like this that's not very little 2:33:32.520 --> 2:33:34.920 when it's all together, and it just reinforces this like 2:33:35.440 --> 2:33:39.039 barbaric trope, and then people just go on their go 2:33:39.120 --> 2:33:43.760 about their lives being okay with genocide because today these 2:33:43.760 --> 2:33:44.920 people are human anymore. 2:33:45.560 --> 2:33:49.600 Right, you look at this like as part of a 2:33:49.640 --> 2:33:57.200 pattern of like the delegitimization of the Arab being. In 2:33:57.240 --> 2:34:00.000 a way, it's like all of this is a pattern 2:34:00.160 --> 2:34:03.880 of like, what are things we can say about Arabs 2:34:04.200 --> 2:34:09.000 in order to make them so far from us that 2:34:10.040 --> 2:34:13.720 you just don't care if they live or die? Or 2:34:14.120 --> 2:34:17.359 more so you you more, you're more willing to believe 2:34:17.959 --> 2:34:21.240 that the people who are like us, the Israelis, are 2:34:21.760 --> 2:34:24.600 the ones telling the truth that they're you know, they're 2:34:24.600 --> 2:34:28.400 the ones who have the empathy. They're the ones who 2:34:29.000 --> 2:34:34.000 you know, let women you know, sit wherever they want, 2:34:34.040 --> 2:34:38.920 whatever the fuck that meant from BB's speech, But like, 2:34:39.600 --> 2:34:42.880 you know, they're more like me Arabs. I don't know them, 2:34:43.120 --> 2:34:46.160 and I guess, you know, if they say they're bad, 2:34:46.360 --> 2:34:48.680 they're bad. You know, it's it's just part of it. 2:34:48.720 --> 2:34:50.920 And I think what pisses me off about it is 2:34:51.959 --> 2:34:56.280 the liberal willingness to believe it. And I think it's like, 2:34:57.240 --> 2:35:01.480 I don't know, it's fascinating to me because especially right now, 2:35:01.560 --> 2:35:04.240 in the last you know, four months or so of 2:35:04.280 --> 2:35:11.160 this brutal incursion into Gaza, it's like so clearly illustrates 2:35:11.200 --> 2:35:15.240 why people on the left fucking hate liberals. You know, 2:35:15.920 --> 2:35:20.160 they're just so easy to manipulate if you know the 2:35:20.240 --> 2:35:24.280 right words. You know, like if it were any other group, 2:35:24.920 --> 2:35:29.439 if it were any other group instead of Jewish nation nationalists, 2:35:29.480 --> 2:35:33.760 like if it were Christian nationalists, they'd be like clearly 2:35:33.800 --> 2:35:39.640 condemning it, clearly. Like liberals have such a facile identity 2:35:39.840 --> 2:35:44.680 and race essentialism that they either excuse the crimes committed 2:35:44.840 --> 2:35:47.800 by the Jewish state because Israel asked them to do 2:35:47.879 --> 2:35:50.920 it and they want to be like good allies or whatever, 2:35:51.040 --> 2:35:53.960 or they ignore them because well, it's not my place 2:35:54.040 --> 2:35:57.160 to say I'm not Jewish. I feel like I should like, 2:35:57.160 --> 2:36:00.240 like they're just so squishy it like it. It kind 2:36:00.240 --> 2:36:03.760 of reveals the modern American liberal for what they are, 2:36:03.760 --> 2:36:06.160 which is like a tiny baby whose self perception is 2:36:06.240 --> 2:36:07.760 at the root of their ideology. 2:36:07.920 --> 2:36:08.120 Right. 2:36:08.800 --> 2:36:08.920 Uh. 2:36:09.120 --> 2:36:13.240 And it's just it's important to remember that Europeans doing 2:36:13.240 --> 2:36:18.959 atrocities to indigenous populations has always come with the gift 2:36:19.000 --> 2:36:23.160 wrapping of these savages don't share our values. It's always 2:36:23.320 --> 2:36:25.560 been like that. So when you see an Israeli soldier 2:36:25.600 --> 2:36:29.560 flying a Pride flag in the rubble of a raised 2:36:29.680 --> 2:36:35.800 Palestinian city. Like just remember that's not liberation, that is 2:36:36.160 --> 2:36:41.959 regular ass by the book colonialism, same shit, you know 2:36:41.959 --> 2:36:42.440 what I mean? 2:36:42.760 --> 2:36:45.840 Oh yeah, I mean I still am loving the description 2:36:46.000 --> 2:36:48.160 of an American liberal as a tiny baby. 2:36:48.600 --> 2:36:53.000 There are little babies. There's little tiny babies. You got, 2:36:53.040 --> 2:36:57.240 They've got they can only hold like one sort of 2:36:57.280 --> 2:37:00.920 political critique in their mind at once, and you know, 2:37:01.040 --> 2:37:06.800 if they choose this kind of like identity essentialism, then 2:37:06.840 --> 2:37:09.879 it's so much easier to just kind of go like, hey, 2:37:10.000 --> 2:37:12.879 you know, I don't really think it's my place to 2:37:12.920 --> 2:37:16.240 talk about this right now exactly. 2:37:16.400 --> 2:37:19.360 It's just it's cowardly and like in retrospect, they're probably 2:37:19.360 --> 2:37:21.280 going to change their story about what their stance was, 2:37:21.360 --> 2:37:22.920 like you know what I mean, And it's just yes, 2:37:23.000 --> 2:37:25.320 it's really infuriating, and I think it is important to 2:37:25.360 --> 2:37:29.000 remember that what you're watching is reel Do and what 2:37:29.040 --> 2:37:31.480 it has done for the past seventy five years, over 2:37:31.520 --> 2:37:34.879 seventy five years, is just colonialism, and it was described 2:37:34.879 --> 2:37:37.520 that way since the beginning. But that was that was 2:37:37.560 --> 2:37:40.640 really Thank you for explaining all of that, Matt. 2:37:40.720 --> 2:37:43.480 Yeah, and you know there will be more, uh. In 2:37:43.560 --> 2:37:46.560 part two, we'll get down to some of these myths. 2:37:46.680 --> 2:37:50.120 We'll get down to the way in which hasbar kind 2:37:50.120 --> 2:37:54.520 of works to invert narratives to a degree that you know, 2:37:54.720 --> 2:37:58.840 are almost so shocking that you have trouble believing the 2:37:59.080 --> 2:38:03.720 historical truth and are more comfortable believing the ahistorical fiction. 2:38:04.240 --> 2:38:08.440 But surine, what do we do now? Plugs? Or yeah? 2:38:08.480 --> 2:38:09.080 What do I say? 2:38:09.280 --> 2:38:12.560 Commercial breaks? That's the end of part one. You did 2:38:12.600 --> 2:38:13.240 a great job. 2:38:13.920 --> 2:38:16.920 Thank you. That's listen. I've never guess hosted a thing 2:38:16.920 --> 2:38:19.039 here on cool Zone Media, but I'm very happy too. 2:38:19.640 --> 2:38:24.240 And if you like you know me obviously you know, 2:38:24.680 --> 2:38:27.440 listen about as Barrow, the World's Most Moral podcast. If 2:38:27.440 --> 2:38:30.440 you like me and my wife, we're going to be 2:38:30.480 --> 2:38:34.160 at the Sacramento Punchline March seventeenth at seven pm. That's 2:38:34.200 --> 2:38:38.840 a Sunday. We're headlining together. I mean, you know, co headlining. 2:38:38.920 --> 2:38:41.440 So I'll go up, she'll go. But it's really good. 2:38:41.480 --> 2:38:43.480 It's a really good show. We did it in San Francisco. 2:38:43.560 --> 2:38:47.440 Is so much fun. Please come out to it March seventeenth. 2:38:47.480 --> 2:38:51.640 That's Sunday, March seventeenth, Sacramento Punchline. Come see Matt Leeb 2:38:51.800 --> 2:38:52.600 Francisca Hearing. 2:38:53.040 --> 2:38:55.959 Where can people follow you don't know, they should if. 2:38:55.920 --> 2:38:59.280 You don't know, at matt Leeb on Twitter, at mett 2:38:59.360 --> 2:39:03.720 leib jokes on Instagram, and uh yeah, check me out. 2:39:04.440 --> 2:39:06.400 I'll post all the dates and stuff over there, and 2:39:06.440 --> 2:39:07.840 all the podcasts over there too. 2:39:08.120 --> 2:39:08.600 Awesome. 2:39:09.120 --> 2:39:10.280 Oh yeah, great job. 2:39:10.720 --> 2:39:31.879 Okay, goodbye, bye, Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here. 2:39:32.240 --> 2:39:36.680 I am your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with 2:39:37.320 --> 2:39:39.720 Charene Unis. What's up, Cheren? 2:39:41.000 --> 2:39:44.120 Nothing? This this is, this is this is what's no? 2:39:44.320 --> 2:39:46.959 I happy to happy to be back. Hopefully you guys 2:39:46.959 --> 2:39:50.280 listen to part one already of math. Yeah, really cool 2:39:50.560 --> 2:39:52.720 little series we got going on here. But if you 2:39:52.760 --> 2:39:57.080 haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing this. 2:39:57.720 --> 2:40:05.320 Haspara this journey. Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no Man. Yeah. 2:40:05.360 --> 2:40:09.160 So this is part two of this series about Hisbara 2:40:09.840 --> 2:40:15.600 once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and 2:40:15.760 --> 2:40:20.080 we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda, 2:40:20.120 --> 2:40:23.240 but so much more so. We're going to talk a 2:40:23.280 --> 2:40:26.360 little bit about the myths about Israel that have kind 2:40:26.400 --> 2:40:31.680 of like gained a foothold in Western public consciousness to 2:40:31.760 --> 2:40:35.080 a degree that it's like not just a foothold, but 2:40:35.120 --> 2:40:39.400 it's just kind of things that we commonly think are facts. 2:40:40.080 --> 2:40:43.200 So like, if you grew up in Zionism, which is 2:40:43.240 --> 2:40:45.560 like if you don't know that's a political ideology that 2:40:45.720 --> 2:40:48.680 birth the state of Israel, you have probably heard a 2:40:48.680 --> 2:40:52.080 lot of your teachers, your rabbis, your friends, your family, 2:40:53.000 --> 2:40:56.640 your Israeli friends, your Israeli family talking about how it's 2:40:56.680 --> 2:41:01.280 your responsibility to explain Israel to the people, and growing 2:41:01.360 --> 2:41:05.199 up you don't actually know that what you're doing is propaganda, 2:41:05.800 --> 2:41:09.240 Like you think you're just you know that you know 2:41:09.360 --> 2:41:12.680 more than most people because everyone else is getting their 2:41:12.720 --> 2:41:17.520 information from anti Semites. You know, you think like you've 2:41:17.560 --> 2:41:21.440 got the real scoop and that most people are just 2:41:22.720 --> 2:41:27.720 you know, born ignorant and biased against Jews. And you 2:41:27.720 --> 2:41:30.280 don't have to be Jewish to have been exposed to espara. 2:41:30.680 --> 2:41:33.039 Chances are that if you grew up in the West, 2:41:33.160 --> 2:41:36.120 you probably hold several views about Israel that are the 2:41:36.240 --> 2:41:39.600 result of decades long pr campaigns. So what I'm going 2:41:39.640 --> 2:41:42.840 to do now is a lightning round of myth busting. 2:41:43.560 --> 2:41:47.840 This is just like real quick getting into some of 2:41:47.879 --> 2:41:51.800 the I don't know some of the most pervasive things 2:41:51.840 --> 2:41:56.160 that I think each one could be an entire episode. 2:41:56.240 --> 2:41:58.720 But you know, listen, this is your guys, pot this 2:41:58.760 --> 2:42:02.280 isn't my podcast. I can't just take it away from you. 2:42:02.320 --> 2:42:04.320 So I'm just going to do a lightning round with you. 2:42:04.600 --> 2:42:05.520 Are you ready, Sharen? 2:42:06.120 --> 2:42:07.520 Oh, bored? Ready, Let's do it. 2:42:07.560 --> 2:42:12.400 Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for 2:42:12.480 --> 2:42:16.840 a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I 2:42:16.840 --> 2:42:19.280 don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and 2:42:19.440 --> 2:42:23.600 seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled in nineteen forty eight. 2:42:24.160 --> 2:42:27.160 This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds 2:42:27.200 --> 2:42:30.360 of years. It is very very modern, and it has 2:42:30.440 --> 2:42:34.040 nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when 2:42:34.040 --> 2:42:37.560 someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands 2:42:37.600 --> 2:42:41.840 of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that 2:42:42.000 --> 2:42:45.400 is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough 2:42:45.440 --> 2:42:49.400 neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is 2:42:49.560 --> 2:42:54.039 just regular ass racism and orientalism. The idea that they 2:42:54.320 --> 2:42:57.200 just you know, you have to be tough, you know, 2:42:57.280 --> 2:43:01.400 I mean, listen, a tough neighborhood is very much that 2:43:01.560 --> 2:43:04.640 is translated for an American a white American audience. You 2:43:04.640 --> 2:43:07.480 know what I mean, what is a tough neighborhood. It's 2:43:07.520 --> 2:43:11.320 one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one. 2:43:11.560 --> 2:43:14.640 There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just 2:43:14.680 --> 2:43:19.080 go there again? This is a weird, racist, dehumanizing thing 2:43:19.120 --> 2:43:22.880 to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like where 2:43:22.959 --> 2:43:25.880 you know, whenever you see them, like doing a big 2:43:25.959 --> 2:43:29.440 zoom ount where they go, Like there's only one Jewish 2:43:29.480 --> 2:43:31.560 state and there's all these Arab states. You know, it's 2:43:31.560 --> 2:43:35.240 like no, no, no, personally, what happened here? Don't don't 2:43:35.320 --> 2:43:40.320 you know? It's like you guy had house, Army took house, 2:43:41.080 --> 2:43:45.360 moved him to other area. That is wrong, period. You 2:43:45.400 --> 2:43:50.520 can't just say go to another Arab country. That's that's 2:43:50.560 --> 2:43:55.039 just racism. Here's another one. It's too complicated. No, it 2:43:55.120 --> 2:44:00.240 is not. Switch the rolls in your head. Use your 2:44:00.240 --> 2:44:04.440 brain for a second. Switch the roles of Jews and 2:44:04.520 --> 2:44:07.360 Palestinians in your head, and you'll have an easier time 2:44:07.400 --> 2:44:13.080 condemning the side that has powerful government and army whose 2:44:13.200 --> 2:44:18.760 crimes include genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash. 2:44:18.840 --> 2:44:23.440 Racist settler terrorism. That is not complicated. If it were 2:44:23.480 --> 2:44:28.039 the Jews who lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you 2:44:28.080 --> 2:44:31.720 would not have a problem saying what was happening was genocide. 2:44:31.959 --> 2:44:35.879 You just wouldn't just do that in your head. All right, 2:44:35.920 --> 2:44:39.879 here's another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No, 2:44:40.000 --> 2:44:46.199 it's fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement. 2:44:46.840 --> 2:44:49.400 That is something that was made explicitly clear by the 2:44:49.440 --> 2:44:53.280 creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like 2:44:53.520 --> 2:44:57.840 settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab 2:44:57.920 --> 2:45:03.640 occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous 2:45:03.640 --> 2:45:08.160 they God, it just pisses me off. And also the 2:45:08.200 --> 2:45:12.320 indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in 2:45:12.400 --> 2:45:15.440 general when people go back and forth about who is 2:45:15.440 --> 2:45:19.400 indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing 2:45:19.920 --> 2:45:23.360 and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it 2:45:23.480 --> 2:45:27.040 is just Palestinians being like, I want to be able 2:45:27.040 --> 2:45:28.960 to vote, I want to have my house back. I 2:45:29.040 --> 2:45:31.520 literally have the key to my house. And yes, many 2:45:31.560 --> 2:45:33.680 of them literally still have the keys to their house. 2:45:33.920 --> 2:45:39.519 All right, there's there's so many, there's so many goddamn 2:45:39.560 --> 2:45:42.960 myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started 2:45:42.959 --> 2:45:46.480 a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like 2:45:46.600 --> 2:45:48.320 much of the stuff that you take for granted as 2:45:48.400 --> 2:45:52.039 fact is not only a historic but like wildly so. 2:45:53.000 --> 2:45:59.280 Like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the 2:45:59.280 --> 2:46:02.680 war forty eight. That is literally they say the opposite 2:46:03.360 --> 2:46:05.520 in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the 2:46:05.560 --> 2:46:09.120 creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the 2:46:09.160 --> 2:46:13.080 Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened were 2:46:13.120 --> 2:46:15.000 not just that all the Arab states attacked, but that 2:46:15.440 --> 2:46:20.359 Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies. 2:46:20.959 --> 2:46:24.240 The Arab armies that were in this fight are far 2:46:24.320 --> 2:46:26.680 fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's 2:46:26.720 --> 2:46:29.520 like seven, it was more like four, and only three 2:46:29.560 --> 2:46:32.240 of them. Only one of them had any sort of 2:46:32.320 --> 2:46:36.400 like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies. 2:46:37.600 --> 2:46:42.440 And also they outnumbered the IDEF outnumbered these armies in 2:46:42.520 --> 2:46:45.680 nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Israel attacked first in 2:46:45.760 --> 2:46:48.800 nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive strike, like famously 2:46:49.240 --> 2:46:52.480 and yet the you know, once again, the narrative around 2:46:52.920 --> 2:46:56.880 the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War is that, you know, 2:46:57.000 --> 2:47:00.720 Israel mining its own business and then Egypt along with 2:47:00.720 --> 2:47:06.440 the people Arabs. Yeah, evil Arabs attacked. The Israeli army 2:47:06.560 --> 2:47:09.800 struck first. That is a fact that they talk about. 2:47:09.959 --> 2:47:14.280 And there's it's also very very much disputed as to 2:47:14.720 --> 2:47:19.160 whether or not the Egyptian army was going to attack 2:47:19.320 --> 2:47:22.879 at all. But you know, there's no room for that 2:47:23.000 --> 2:47:26.800 narrative because it, you know, fucks up the the glorious 2:47:26.840 --> 2:47:31.320 story of what became the occupation of the West Bank 2:47:31.360 --> 2:47:36.320 and Gaza. Another one a whod Barack absolutely did not 2:47:36.560 --> 2:47:41.200 offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He did not, Nor 2:47:41.280 --> 2:47:44.400 did he offer ninety six percent of the West Bank. 2:47:44.640 --> 2:47:49.039 And no, Israel did not invent the fucking cherry tomato. 2:47:49.520 --> 2:47:53.240 Wait they did it. No, they did not. There was 2:47:53.879 --> 2:47:56.959 a Haaretz article about it where they're like, no, we didn't. 2:47:57.320 --> 2:47:59.800 Why do we keep saying this we didn't do that? 2:48:00.440 --> 2:48:03.240 Oh my god, that's so funny. No, I mean, so 2:48:03.360 --> 2:48:05.600 many of these talking points are some of the main 2:48:05.720 --> 2:48:08.080 arguments that Zionist will use to be like, well, they 2:48:08.120 --> 2:48:10.680 rejected this and this is what happened here, and it's 2:48:10.680 --> 2:48:16.199 just like these are all incorrect. You just like regurgitating Hasbara. 2:48:16.360 --> 2:48:19.120 Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so 2:48:19.640 --> 2:48:23.520 widely repeated and so often that it just kind of 2:48:23.600 --> 2:48:27.600 sinks in Huberac did not offer them a state in 2:48:27.680 --> 2:48:31.080 terms of what you would consider the definition definition of 2:48:31.080 --> 2:48:34.599 a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy, 2:48:34.720 --> 2:48:38.000 that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They 2:48:38.000 --> 2:48:41.320 weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had 2:48:41.400 --> 2:48:44.520 taken such a large percentage of the of it, and 2:48:44.600 --> 2:48:48.400 what they were offering was inn even smaller percentage of 2:48:48.680 --> 2:48:53.600 what they had already taken. And they the thing they 2:48:53.600 --> 2:48:56.120 were offering again, not a state, not a state, not 2:48:56.200 --> 2:49:02.119 a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is things 2:49:02.120 --> 2:49:05.080 people are willing to believe. And that's just that's the 2:49:05.080 --> 2:49:07.240 whole thing. And again I prefer to say it's the 2:49:07.280 --> 2:49:10.039 I am rubber, you are a glue tactic, but you 2:49:10.080 --> 2:49:11.199 know it's the same shit. 2:49:11.720 --> 2:49:11.840 You know. 2:49:11.920 --> 2:49:16.120 His Bara likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. 2:49:17.040 --> 2:49:20.480 And the reason is simple. They know that the West 2:49:20.520 --> 2:49:22.920 is much more willing to believe that Jews are the 2:49:22.959 --> 2:49:25.400 victims and Arabs are oppressors. 2:49:25.760 --> 2:49:26.000 You know. 2:49:26.160 --> 2:49:33.920 It's just it's playing on Western guilt and complicity in 2:49:33.959 --> 2:49:37.560 Europe during the Holocaust, and it's playing on kind of 2:49:37.600 --> 2:49:41.360 liberal sympathies in general. And honestly, it's playing on well, 2:49:41.360 --> 2:49:43.560 who do you know if you're in the West. If 2:49:43.600 --> 2:49:46.880 you're in the West, you know some Jews, maybe you 2:49:46.879 --> 2:49:49.840 don't know Arabs. The Arabs you do know are on 2:49:49.959 --> 2:49:56.480 TV doing bad, you know, And that is one of 2:49:56.520 --> 2:49:59.920 the reasons for the effectiveness of it. And in terms 2:49:59.920 --> 2:50:02.680 of like the inversion of everything, Like I think my 2:50:02.760 --> 2:50:06.879 favorite example is the is the map, So like Israel 2:50:06.959 --> 2:50:12.400 will often point to a map of the entire mina 2:50:12.480 --> 2:50:15.520 region like Middle East North Africa, and they'll highlight all 2:50:15.560 --> 2:50:19.720 of the Arab countries in green and Israel in blue 2:50:20.320 --> 2:50:23.280 to show that like, oh, Israel just a tiny is 2:50:23.280 --> 2:50:25.000 it just a tiny strip of land. It's just a 2:50:25.000 --> 2:50:29.240 small bean, you know, surrounded by big green Arab monsters, 2:50:29.800 --> 2:50:34.360 and I want to kill Israel like that. Hezbara map will 2:50:34.400 --> 2:50:36.959 like often include the West Bank and the Gaza strip 2:50:37.080 --> 2:50:40.320 in green as well, and it's a way to frame 2:50:40.480 --> 2:50:43.160 the West Bank in Gaza is not just being like this, 2:50:43.480 --> 2:50:47.200 you know, particular thing. They will be like, No, these 2:50:47.240 --> 2:50:52.360 are part of the giant invading Arab green monster, because 2:50:52.440 --> 2:50:54.879 what they're trying to do is show the power imbalance 2:50:54.920 --> 2:50:57.400 is being completely inverted from the reality here, you know, 2:50:57.480 --> 2:51:01.199 and anyone, anyone who knows you know, or anyone who's 2:51:01.280 --> 2:51:06.720 like watched the news, knows that it's ridiculously false to 2:51:07.120 --> 2:51:12.320 claim that Israel is somehow the less powerful agent here, 2:51:12.600 --> 2:51:15.320 you know, like you you don't have to have a 2:51:15.360 --> 2:51:21.720 PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance. Like there's Israel, 2:51:22.280 --> 2:51:27.680 a modern, you know, well armed military, cutting edge technology, 2:51:28.000 --> 2:51:32.560 backing and funding of the world's most powerful state, most 2:51:32.560 --> 2:51:36.960 powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas. 2:51:37.280 --> 2:51:40.520 That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying, 2:51:40.520 --> 2:51:44.160 it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know, 2:51:44.280 --> 2:51:48.640 there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like 2:51:49.400 --> 2:51:52.080 to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus 2:51:52.200 --> 2:51:54.039 days have made it perfectly clear that for all the 2:51:54.120 --> 2:51:57.959 talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's 2:51:58.000 --> 2:52:01.480 clear Israel could literally genocide Palaestinians in broad daylight in 2:52:01.480 --> 2:52:04.000 the Arab states who do nothing. There's no giant Arab 2:52:04.080 --> 2:52:08.160 green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palastinians. 2:52:08.240 --> 2:52:11.440 Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen 2:52:12.000 --> 2:52:16.200 and Hasbollah in Lebanon, both of which are non government 2:52:16.640 --> 2:52:19.959 militant organizations. They are not like, it is not the 2:52:20.000 --> 2:52:25.160 state of Yemen who is supporting the Palaestinians. It's not 2:52:25.160 --> 2:52:28.360 the state of Lebanon. It is these militant states within 2:52:28.440 --> 2:52:32.039 states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you have 2:52:32.040 --> 2:52:34.800 to remember when Israel claims were just they were a 2:52:34.840 --> 2:52:37.280 small state the size of New Jersey, you know, in 2:52:37.320 --> 2:52:40.840 a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know, the 2:52:40.840 --> 2:52:45.640 West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip of 2:52:45.680 --> 2:52:48.920 an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not the case. 2:52:49.800 --> 2:52:51.440 The truth of it is is like you want to 2:52:51.440 --> 2:52:54.480 talk about how small Israel is, look how small the 2:52:54.560 --> 2:52:58.879 Gaza strip is, and that you know alone to like 2:52:59.000 --> 2:53:01.880 look at that pick sure, to know they are surrounded 2:53:02.760 --> 2:53:07.000 and to see that there's no way out. That I 2:53:07.040 --> 2:53:10.080 think changes the narrative for people. And it's a narrative 2:53:10.120 --> 2:53:12.600 that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't like 2:53:12.640 --> 2:53:16.200 to show the West Bank, and you know, in terms 2:53:16.200 --> 2:53:20.320 of how it is cut into cantons that are basically 2:53:20.520 --> 2:53:26.400 everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements in Israeli military. 2:53:27.040 --> 2:53:29.920 They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know 2:53:29.920 --> 2:53:32.720 what I mean, Like they really And also I think 2:53:33.160 --> 2:53:36.360 talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really 2:53:37.200 --> 2:53:39.040 infuriating to me because I feel like in the last 2:53:39.040 --> 2:53:41.959 couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks 2:53:42.000 --> 2:53:44.360 like on a map than ever before. And we see 2:53:44.360 --> 2:53:46.680 how fucking small it is, and it's described as being 2:53:46.760 --> 2:53:50.200 five miles at one point, like from the sea to 2:53:50.280 --> 2:53:53.640 the whatever, and it's still not enough able, you know, 2:53:53.760 --> 2:53:55.800 it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like 2:53:55.840 --> 2:53:59.360 it's just even seeing how mini school it is is 2:53:59.400 --> 2:54:03.840 still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty 2:54:03.879 --> 2:54:06.320 thousand people dying in this little strip of land. 2:54:06.640 --> 2:54:10.760 We should think about that, right, Yeah, No, I mean no, 2:54:10.840 --> 2:54:16.320 it's it is it is. My point is basically to 2:54:16.560 --> 2:54:21.920 dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has been Israel, 2:54:22.040 --> 2:54:28.279 small therefore deserves support and people standing with it because small, 2:54:28.400 --> 2:54:33.120 because it's small, scary because baby puppy because a little 2:54:33.240 --> 2:54:38.800 little you know, please help, and that visual is just 2:54:38.879 --> 2:54:43.240 such a it's such a gross lie. And you know, 2:54:43.600 --> 2:54:50.640 you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know, seem bigger 2:54:50.680 --> 2:54:54.280 than they are is helpful for Israel. And that's why 2:54:54.280 --> 2:54:57.080 they do it. You know, this is this is a 2:54:57.120 --> 2:55:01.359 way to invert the victim and the victimizer. And it's 2:55:01.360 --> 2:55:04.320 clear as day. Other things that are clear as day, 2:55:04.720 --> 2:55:08.720 these products and services that we're going to be selling. 2:55:09.000 --> 2:55:25.560 So stick around, we'll be right back and we're back again. 2:55:26.720 --> 2:55:32.000 People in the West, by and large, prefer the Israeli explanation. 2:55:33.040 --> 2:55:37.240 They're fine living in this alternate reality. And you know, 2:55:37.280 --> 2:55:40.240 people believe it for like a variety of reasons. Some 2:55:40.280 --> 2:55:43.160 people because they were raised to believe it, some people 2:55:43.200 --> 2:55:46.560 because they just want to believe it. But I think 2:55:46.600 --> 2:55:50.879 mostly most people in the West just don't really care 2:55:51.040 --> 2:55:54.000 enough about like Palestinians to like look into it, like 2:55:54.040 --> 2:55:57.200 they're you know, they're just it's one of many news 2:55:57.200 --> 2:56:00.000 stories too. I think a lot of people it's easy 2:56:00.200 --> 2:56:02.320 to put in a box and to be honest, you know, 2:56:02.520 --> 2:56:07.160 like wouldn't that be nice to be able to compartmentalize 2:56:07.200 --> 2:56:09.320 like it would for me. Shit, it would make me 2:56:09.400 --> 2:56:12.840 way less stressed if I could just not care. And 2:56:12.600 --> 2:56:15.240 that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care, 2:56:15.840 --> 2:56:19.720 because I do think that it is absolutely human and 2:56:19.840 --> 2:56:24.080 valid to have some things that you just don't have 2:56:24.160 --> 2:56:28.120 emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is 2:56:28.160 --> 2:56:33.760 not whether or not people are, like, you know, supporting 2:56:33.800 --> 2:56:37.000 Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is 2:56:37.560 --> 2:56:40.000 whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to 2:56:40.040 --> 2:56:45.000 be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because 2:56:45.000 --> 2:56:47.200 of it. Like if you're if you're not going to 2:56:47.240 --> 2:56:51.040 say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling 2:56:51.080 --> 2:56:54.080 about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put 2:56:54.160 --> 2:56:57.240 in a box. Beyond that, I think there's also no 2:56:57.320 --> 2:56:59.520 incentive for a lot of people to believe in it. 2:56:59.560 --> 2:57:02.880 In fact, even question who are the victims and the 2:57:02.959 --> 2:57:08.400 victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict, like 2:57:09.200 --> 2:57:11.840 it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most people 2:57:11.879 --> 2:57:14.480 don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't want 2:57:14.520 --> 2:57:18.800 to think about that stuff. And it also it people 2:57:19.040 --> 2:57:23.000 worry about whether or not they're going to get in trouble. 2:57:23.600 --> 2:57:28.160 And that brings me to another part of this speech 2:57:28.200 --> 2:57:32.600 I found from the Middle East Policy Council about haspara quote. 2:57:33.120 --> 2:57:37.200 It also seeks to actively inculcate canons of political correctness 2:57:37.240 --> 2:57:41.000 in Domesican foreign media and audiences that will promote self 2:57:41.160 --> 2:57:46.160 censorship by them. It strives thereby to decrease the willingness 2:57:46.520 --> 2:57:51.560 of audiences to consider information linked to politically unacceptable viewpoints, 2:57:51.879 --> 2:57:56.320 individuals and groups, and to inhibit the circulation of adverse 2:57:56.360 --> 2:58:00.800 information and social networks. It focuses on limiting the receptivity 2:58:00.959 --> 2:58:09.200 of audiences to information. So Hasbar is fucking Orwellian, that is, 2:58:09.400 --> 2:58:12.520 I think one of the things that interests me about 2:58:12.560 --> 2:58:16.480 it a lot is how Orwellian it is. You know, 2:58:16.600 --> 2:58:20.640 it goes beyond mere branding when the Israeli government and 2:58:20.680 --> 2:58:25.520 pro Israel institutions like so effectively mold the parameters of 2:58:25.560 --> 2:58:28.200 what is and isn't politically correct, not just like in 2:58:28.240 --> 2:58:31.400 their own country, but in other countries in the West. 2:58:31.920 --> 2:58:35.400 Like think about the self censorship that you the listener 2:58:35.800 --> 2:58:39.279 do around this issue. Think about the times you wanted 2:58:39.320 --> 2:58:42.280 to say something but didn't because you didn't know the 2:58:42.360 --> 2:58:45.320 exact right way to say it, you know, like how 2:58:45.840 --> 2:58:47.840 how to put it, And like, think about the times 2:58:47.840 --> 2:58:50.879 that you were reading something critical of Israel by someone 2:58:51.120 --> 2:58:54.959 you trust and agree with, and one sentence or one 2:58:55.000 --> 2:58:59.720 word or one turn of phrase triggered you into questioning 2:58:59.760 --> 2:59:03.680 not validity of the thing you were reading, but like 2:59:03.760 --> 2:59:06.959 the nature of the person who wrote it. Think about 2:59:06.959 --> 2:59:10.280 your reaction to me saying these things about Israel, and 2:59:10.320 --> 2:59:13.520 about how you felt when Sharen made a lot of 2:59:13.560 --> 2:59:17.280 these points on some other episode of this podcast, you know, 2:59:18.000 --> 2:59:23.520 like think about why that changes things for you. And 2:59:23.640 --> 2:59:27.800 like there was a time where I was also uncomfortable 2:59:28.440 --> 2:59:31.640 and like I would only feel comfortable at hearing criticism 2:59:32.040 --> 2:59:35.880 and doing criticism of Israel in the presence of other Jews, 2:59:36.000 --> 2:59:38.920 Like it had to be in a you know, private 2:59:39.360 --> 2:59:43.400 all Jewish Facebook group or in like in person or 2:59:43.440 --> 2:59:47.760 through text messages. Like I was so suspicious of the 2:59:47.879 --> 2:59:53.440 secret motives of non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like, 2:59:53.440 --> 2:59:56.760 like someone could literally say something that I one hundred 2:59:56.800 --> 3:00:00.240 percent agreed with, something that I myself had said, and 3:00:00.240 --> 3:00:03.240 then I would still get this icky feeling from them 3:00:03.320 --> 3:00:05.880 saying it, like yeah, but why are they saying it 3:00:06.000 --> 3:00:10.800 like why do you care? Like that is probably Hasbara's 3:00:10.840 --> 3:00:15.879 greatest success to relegate the issue of Palestinian human and 3:00:15.920 --> 3:00:19.400 civil rights to a niche subject that is best talked 3:00:19.400 --> 3:00:26.039 about in private and only by Jews. So I mean, Sarene, 3:00:26.080 --> 3:00:30.080 I know that, Like for you, you've got you get 3:00:30.080 --> 3:00:32.520 shipped for this, you know, I do. 3:00:32.959 --> 3:00:36.240 Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real 3:00:36.240 --> 3:00:39.160 life especially and also just like in work. I'm done 3:00:39.240 --> 3:00:43.200 qualifying whether or not something I say is or is 3:00:43.320 --> 3:00:48.400 not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea 3:00:48.520 --> 3:00:51.520 that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire. 3:00:51.600 --> 3:00:54.040 I don't want to even bring that into I don't 3:00:54.040 --> 3:00:57.400 want to associate that religion and of course the state 3:00:57.400 --> 3:01:00.680 of Israel. And I feel like the more we have 3:01:00.840 --> 3:01:04.560 those disclaimers, the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean, 3:01:05.480 --> 3:01:07.720 I've had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on 3:01:07.760 --> 3:01:11.879 the show, almost almost to like show people that like, 3:01:12.320 --> 3:01:14.920 listen to these people with actual experience. 3:01:15.600 --> 3:01:19.320 Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know, 3:01:20.840 --> 3:01:24.080 say you shouldn't. None of this is me saying like, hey, 3:01:24.560 --> 3:01:28.480 you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or 3:01:28.560 --> 3:01:31.400 just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning 3:01:31.560 --> 3:01:34.080 about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there 3:01:34.080 --> 3:01:37.600 are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the 3:01:37.640 --> 3:01:42.080 guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti 3:01:42.120 --> 3:01:46.760 occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down 3:01:46.959 --> 3:01:52.000 anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to 3:01:52.040 --> 3:01:56.199 say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even 3:01:56.320 --> 3:02:01.240 the most conscious of people. Like making zion and Judaism 3:02:01.360 --> 3:02:05.000 synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his 3:02:05.080 --> 3:02:09.160 Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as 3:02:09.280 --> 3:02:13.080 monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who 3:02:13.120 --> 3:02:16.480 are the exception that proved the rule. You know, like 3:02:16.600 --> 3:02:20.039 non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they 3:02:20.040 --> 3:02:23.480 don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't 3:02:23.480 --> 3:02:26.240 want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like, 3:02:26.720 --> 3:02:30.920 you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal 3:02:31.000 --> 3:02:33.840 response to the homosterous attacks of October seventh, there was 3:02:33.840 --> 3:02:37.120 a big push among his Bars to frame all Jews 3:02:37.160 --> 3:02:40.560 of the world as feeling abandoned by the left and 3:02:40.640 --> 3:02:44.439 abandoned by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman, 3:02:44.600 --> 3:02:47.800 Oh my god, from a stranger walking dumps, I hate 3:02:47.879 --> 3:02:51.280 him so much. Oh my god, fucking Wooly Willie over 3:02:51.320 --> 3:02:56.960 here going on Instagram being like, hey, fake woke former friends, 3:02:56.959 --> 3:03:00.440 and like he gave a speech at the like Stand 3:03:00.480 --> 3:03:04.080 with Israel March that was something like the Jews don't 3:03:04.120 --> 3:03:09.600 need you, like presenting the you know, the idea of 3:03:09.600 --> 3:03:13.080 people criticizing Israel, or like not wanting at the very 3:03:13.160 --> 3:03:18.680 least not wanting the complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza, 3:03:19.320 --> 3:03:22.800 framing that as like, oh, well, all the Jews want that, 3:03:23.720 --> 3:03:27.520 you know, like his whole thing of being like the 3:03:27.600 --> 3:03:32.840 Jews don't need you, as if he and Israel represented 3:03:32.920 --> 3:03:35.920 all Jews, like presenting the Jews of the world as 3:03:35.920 --> 3:03:39.360 a monolith, as if non Zionist or anti Zionist Jews 3:03:39.720 --> 3:03:42.320 don't even exist, as if we all felt this way, 3:03:42.959 --> 3:03:45.880 Like you don't want to hate Jews, do you? Of course, 3:03:45.879 --> 3:03:48.600 if you don't, then you gotta let Israel do whatever 3:03:48.640 --> 3:03:50.039 the hell it wants. 3:03:49.959 --> 3:03:50.200 You know. 3:03:50.800 --> 3:03:53.000 I think what really bothers me about him, I mean 3:03:53.160 --> 3:03:56.240 everything bothers me about him. But like people like him, 3:03:56.360 --> 3:03:59.960 they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with, hey, I care 3:04:00.080 --> 3:04:03.880 about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade. 3:04:03.920 --> 3:04:09.160 There's ionis bullshit, and it's like, it's just it really 3:04:09.200 --> 3:04:11.280 boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a 3:04:11.280 --> 3:04:15.160 good person. I really think that he believes he's a 3:04:15.200 --> 3:04:18.640 good person, when really he's just a piece of shit 3:04:18.800 --> 3:04:20.840 that does not see a huge group of people as 3:04:20.920 --> 3:04:21.520 human beings. 3:04:21.600 --> 3:04:24.080 Yes, does not see people as human. And this is 3:04:24.080 --> 3:04:28.879 something that you I think that anyone who's like a 3:04:28.879 --> 3:04:32.440 self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able 3:04:32.480 --> 3:04:35.680 to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just 3:04:35.800 --> 3:04:41.320 it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of 3:04:41.360 --> 3:04:47.480 this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews 3:04:47.800 --> 3:04:51.600 are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel. 3:04:51.680 --> 3:04:53.920 Like they may be like a little bit like liberal 3:04:54.000 --> 3:04:58.080 Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel, 3:04:58.120 --> 3:05:02.959 and that is is is not true, and it's it's 3:05:03.000 --> 3:05:07.920 a way of like more so, it feeds into the 3:05:08.080 --> 3:05:13.200 continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents 3:05:13.200 --> 3:05:15.960 all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't. 3:05:15.959 --> 3:05:18.680 And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't 3:05:18.720 --> 3:05:22.520 already know. Like I think people know, Zionism is not Judaism. 3:05:22.840 --> 3:05:24.840 I think you've said that many times on this podcast, 3:05:24.840 --> 3:05:25.320 trust me. 3:05:25.360 --> 3:05:27.360 Yea, at this point you should know. 3:05:28.920 --> 3:05:31.720 If you don't know that by now, please. 3:05:31.800 --> 3:05:37.000 Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both 3:05:37.040 --> 3:05:40.160 inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of 3:05:40.240 --> 3:05:42.720 views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that 3:05:42.840 --> 3:05:46.720 Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know, 3:05:46.879 --> 3:05:51.800 support the government at least or support the project of Zionism. 3:05:52.120 --> 3:05:54.600 But that is like, to me, that's to be expected. 3:05:54.800 --> 3:05:57.480 It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven, 3:05:57.920 --> 3:06:02.640 you know. I it weird to not expect the kind 3:06:02.720 --> 3:06:07.000 of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine to eleven, 3:06:07.040 --> 3:06:09.600 you know, in fucking America. And I feel like that 3:06:09.720 --> 3:06:12.480 was the majority of people. Was that kind of like 3:06:12.480 --> 3:06:16.800 like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not excusing it, 3:06:16.840 --> 3:06:20.560 but what I'm saying is that Jews have a diverse 3:06:20.920 --> 3:06:23.840 range of views inside and outside of Israel, and a 3:06:23.879 --> 3:06:26.840 lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And that's why 3:06:26.879 --> 3:06:31.560 you see it in these Jewish organizations that are trying 3:06:31.600 --> 3:06:35.160 to end the occupation. They're trying they are openly critiquing Israel, 3:06:35.200 --> 3:06:38.879 that are calling Zionism racism. You see it, and you 3:06:38.959 --> 3:06:44.240 see it because they because we're honestly trying to change 3:06:44.240 --> 3:06:48.280 this narrative. We're trying to stop people from believing this 3:06:48.400 --> 3:06:52.560 lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with the state 3:06:52.640 --> 3:06:53.279 of Israel. 3:06:53.720 --> 3:06:56.760 Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean 3:06:56.760 --> 3:06:59.440 I've said this many times as well, but Jewish antaisionists 3:06:59.480 --> 3:07:02.480 are like a very integral part of the movement to 3:07:02.520 --> 3:07:06.440 liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue, 3:07:06.440 --> 3:07:08.920 it's not a Muslim issue. It's it's a very human 3:07:09.000 --> 3:07:13.560 issue to care about people not being fucking genocided. 3:07:13.959 --> 3:07:17.800 Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the 3:07:17.920 --> 3:07:22.720 products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. So 3:07:22.800 --> 3:07:26.440 let's stick around, listen to these ads and we'll be 3:07:26.560 --> 3:07:42.680 right back. And we're back. So I want to say 3:07:43.480 --> 3:07:49.520 to everyone listening, I understand that the impulse to treat 3:07:49.520 --> 3:07:53.320 the subject of Israel with more caution and care. Is 3:07:53.400 --> 3:07:57.200 rooted in respect for the Jewish people and a desire 3:07:57.280 --> 3:08:02.160 to stand firmly against anti Semitism, and that is that 3:08:02.280 --> 3:08:05.240 is a good thing. I encourage that one hundred percent 3:08:06.080 --> 3:08:11.720 you respecting Jewish people and wanting to stand firmly against 3:08:11.760 --> 3:08:14.520 anti Semitism, wanting to fight it with every fiber of 3:08:14.560 --> 3:08:17.720 your being. You are correct and feeling that way, and 3:08:17.760 --> 3:08:20.680 I want to encourage it. And I also need you 3:08:20.720 --> 3:08:23.920 to understand that it's for that very reason that I 3:08:24.160 --> 3:08:29.160 urge people to speak out about Israel, because I believe 3:08:29.240 --> 3:08:33.480 Israel and there has Baris mouthpieces and the project of 3:08:33.600 --> 3:08:38.800 political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not in like 3:08:38.879 --> 3:08:42.000 the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are also semi 3:08:42.080 --> 3:08:44.160 So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not talking about that. 3:08:44.600 --> 3:08:50.880 I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish. They actively 3:08:51.240 --> 3:08:56.640 work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make us distrust 3:08:56.640 --> 3:09:02.279 our friends, our neighbors, our co work, our fellow Jews. 3:09:02.280 --> 3:09:06.520 Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews 3:09:06.560 --> 3:09:09.720 that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews, 3:09:10.080 --> 3:09:13.560 you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use 3:09:13.600 --> 3:09:18.440 our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and 3:09:18.680 --> 3:09:23.560 manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is, it 3:09:23.600 --> 3:09:28.160 is abuse. It's it's cult shit too, and they even 3:09:28.200 --> 3:09:31.959 deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to 3:09:31.959 --> 3:09:36.600 point this out because you see the way that they, 3:09:37.040 --> 3:09:42.080 the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in 3:09:42.280 --> 3:09:46.000 order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly, 3:09:46.879 --> 3:09:51.000 you know, in the last three four months, videos from 3:09:51.040 --> 3:09:55.640 the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in 3:09:55.720 --> 3:09:58.760 a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it 3:09:58.840 --> 3:10:02.440 up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is 3:10:02.520 --> 3:10:05.760 Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed 3:10:05.760 --> 3:10:08.080 to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that, 3:10:08.600 --> 3:10:12.279 and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli 3:10:12.360 --> 3:10:17.760 soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom. 3:10:17.920 --> 3:10:20.880 Why is it blown up? And why why is he 3:10:20.959 --> 3:10:26.120 going through her stuff like that? You stop looking at 3:10:26.160 --> 3:10:29.360 what is actually happening, and you start looking at what 3:10:30.400 --> 3:10:33.280 the Hasbaris want you to look at. They want you 3:10:33.360 --> 3:10:36.120 to see the Hitler thing and go like, oh man, 3:10:36.400 --> 3:10:41.480 this is a whole society of little Hitlers, and I 3:10:41.800 --> 3:10:44.440 you know, I look at that and I see the 3:10:44.440 --> 3:10:46.640 way they cynically use that. While at the same time, 3:10:47.280 --> 3:10:51.960 you know, Benjamin net Yahoo has been pushing this line 3:10:52.160 --> 3:10:56.160 claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinian's idea. I mean, 3:10:56.200 --> 3:11:01.360 this is something that has been gaining more and more 3:11:01.520 --> 3:11:06.920 traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine, like 3:11:07.000 --> 3:11:09.600 a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know, 3:11:09.680 --> 3:11:14.440 the Mufti and is and Hitler meeting up together and 3:11:14.920 --> 3:11:17.360 being like, have you ever thought about killing the Jews? 3:11:17.360 --> 3:11:19.920 And Hitler was like, I never thought about that before. 3:11:20.160 --> 3:11:25.800 That's so smart. Wow, thank you Palestinians. Like total bullshit, 3:11:26.160 --> 3:11:32.960 totally revising, like trying to do fucking like I don't 3:11:32.959 --> 3:11:38.160 know apology of for literally, Hitler is anti Semitic. I 3:11:38.160 --> 3:11:42.400 don't care how you slice it. It is. And that's 3:11:42.400 --> 3:11:45.520 something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal in 3:11:45.560 --> 3:11:50.680 anti Semitism all the time. I mean, essentially, Israel tells 3:11:51.400 --> 3:11:55.280 the world that Jews are a third column, loyal to 3:11:55.360 --> 3:11:59.240 Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our home 3:11:59.400 --> 3:12:03.280 isn't our home. They say this to us, and you 3:12:03.280 --> 3:12:06.200 know that due to our traditions and our blood, you know, 3:12:06.240 --> 3:12:10.840 we are just merely guests in any other place. This 3:12:10.920 --> 3:12:15.640 is like an old racist worldview from a previous century, 3:12:15.840 --> 3:12:19.800 filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and like 3:12:19.840 --> 3:12:23.240 for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family, 3:12:23.440 --> 3:12:25.480 you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish 3:12:25.480 --> 3:12:28.760 and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially, 3:12:28.879 --> 3:12:32.959 you know, like and as like the very fact of 3:12:33.000 --> 3:12:37.800 me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder 3:12:37.959 --> 3:12:42.600 us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return, 3:12:42.720 --> 3:12:45.240 that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists 3:12:45.320 --> 3:12:48.040 as a passport to allow me to move to Israel 3:12:48.040 --> 3:12:51.680 and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like, 3:12:51.920 --> 3:12:55.879 you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do 3:12:56.440 --> 3:12:59.120 with my ability to do this, and my blood is 3:12:59.120 --> 3:13:03.840 my passport to you apartheid. That's why I choose to 3:13:03.879 --> 3:13:05.720 talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to 3:13:05.800 --> 3:13:08.959 use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the 3:13:09.040 --> 3:13:11.240 crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to 3:13:11.640 --> 3:13:15.800 say about it. You know. So my final piece of 3:13:15.840 --> 3:13:18.760 haspara has to do with something that has been said 3:13:18.800 --> 3:13:23.760 over and over again by countless Zionis, including the current 3:13:23.840 --> 3:13:28.240 President of these United States of America, Joe Biden. Folks, 3:13:29.040 --> 3:13:31.720 were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish the 3:13:31.720 --> 3:13:34.920 world was safe. The idea that the state of Israel 3:13:34.959 --> 3:13:38.520 alone can keep the Jewish people safe is an insane 3:13:38.600 --> 3:13:44.320 piece of haspara. It is a total, utter anti Semitic bullshit. 3:13:45.640 --> 3:13:50.880 A Jewish state does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe. 3:13:51.120 --> 3:13:56.119 Tying the fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish 3:13:56.160 --> 3:14:00.360 people is a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people 3:14:00.520 --> 3:14:04.680 are a nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations 3:14:04.720 --> 3:14:10.039 meaning like a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs, 3:14:10.080 --> 3:14:13.080 and religion and or religion. You know, it can be 3:14:13.280 --> 3:14:15.040 any of those things. And for a long long time 3:14:15.080 --> 3:14:19.680 we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And 3:14:19.720 --> 3:14:23.320 that's not to say that, you know, Israel shouldn't exist 3:14:23.400 --> 3:14:26.560 or whatever. But more importantly, what I'm saying is that 3:14:27.360 --> 3:14:33.640 Jews should exist, whether they happen to be located anywhere, 3:14:33.920 --> 3:14:38.320 like wherever they are, Jews should should exist. The existence 3:14:38.360 --> 3:14:40.800 of the state of Israel, to me is not the question, 3:14:41.360 --> 3:14:44.760 and that is not what Israel claims to do. They ensure, 3:14:44.959 --> 3:14:47.720 they claim to ensure the existence of the Jewish people, 3:14:47.720 --> 3:14:49.720 but they do not. All they do is try to 3:14:49.760 --> 3:14:53.440 bolster the existence of their state. And it should not 3:14:54.080 --> 3:14:58.080 be common thought that the existence of Israel and the 3:14:58.120 --> 3:15:01.600 existence of Jews are the same thing is I can 3:15:01.640 --> 3:15:05.400 personally think of nothing more dangerous for any people than 3:15:05.440 --> 3:15:10.920 to tie their entire survival to something as impermanent as 3:15:10.959 --> 3:15:17.800 a fucking state. And that is the truth about Israel. 3:15:18.320 --> 3:15:24.160 So you know, all this to say that I'm a 3:15:24.320 --> 3:15:29.320 I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's one thing that 3:15:29.560 --> 3:15:32.119 you know, getting into the whole Israel palasine thing will 3:15:32.120 --> 3:15:34.680 do to you. It turns you very quickly into someone 3:15:34.720 --> 3:15:40.440 who believes the existence of states is the problem. Yeah, yeah, 3:15:40.480 --> 3:15:44.760 so that's that's me. That's how I feel about stuff. 3:15:45.400 --> 3:15:48.840 I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where 3:15:49.200 --> 3:15:51.800 can't people hear you do the same thing? But what 3:15:51.840 --> 3:15:53.240 by yourself? With other people? 3:15:53.879 --> 3:15:57.560 You can? You can hear me? Do you know these 3:15:58.080 --> 3:16:01.800 talking about Israel and stuff? On my new podcast, bad 3:16:01.879 --> 3:16:05.000 has Bara, The world's most moral podcast. It's a it's 3:16:05.040 --> 3:16:10.440 a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that I that 3:16:10.520 --> 3:16:13.920 I find that are you know, listeners find and you know, 3:16:14.000 --> 3:16:16.520 I have on my friends like Charine, I had you on, 3:16:16.680 --> 3:16:20.840 I had an on, I had all sorts of great 3:16:20.879 --> 3:16:25.440 anti Zionist Jews and some really amazing Palestinian guests. Or 3:16:25.440 --> 3:16:28.119 at least by the time this comes out, I assume 3:16:28.160 --> 3:16:31.080 those episodes will have come out. I you know, I 3:16:31.080 --> 3:16:34.200 don't know when those are coming out. But anyways, I've 3:16:34.200 --> 3:16:36.000 only been doing the podcast for a month and it's 3:16:36.160 --> 3:16:38.920 it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic, and 3:16:38.959 --> 3:16:42.520 it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know, like 3:16:42.680 --> 3:16:45.360 caused some stress in my life because you know, looking 3:16:45.440 --> 3:16:49.640 for this content you have to dig through a lot 3:16:49.640 --> 3:16:53.160 of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad as 3:16:53.160 --> 3:16:57.000 Bara or you know, check me out met leave jokes 3:16:57.040 --> 3:17:02.760 on Instagram, and go to sacrament Know punchline March seventeenth, Sunday, 3:17:03.320 --> 3:17:06.760 seven pm, Me and my wife, my wife. Just if 3:17:06.800 --> 3:17:09.640 you're in teeny we're gonna be co headlining there, So 3:17:09.760 --> 3:17:14.600 get your tickets now. Link in the notes. Yay no 3:17:14.760 --> 3:17:15.480 thank you so much. 3:17:15.560 --> 3:17:20.720 I really enjoy your podcast, the most SPORL podcast, I 3:17:20.720 --> 3:17:21.560 would say in the. 3:17:21.440 --> 3:17:24.800 World for sure. Thank you for you know, give me 3:17:24.800 --> 3:17:27.760 the opportunity to talk about this. And you know, I 3:17:29.840 --> 3:17:36.080 promise you that the show, The Badass Bar Show is funny. 3:17:36.400 --> 3:17:37.760 I swear to god, it's funny. 3:17:38.080 --> 3:17:40.360 It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's 3:17:40.440 --> 3:17:42.720 very cathartic to just like event with your friends and 3:17:42.879 --> 3:17:45.360 people think the same things as you, especially if you're 3:17:45.360 --> 3:17:51.080 surrounded by someone or people that are kind of purposely 3:17:51.080 --> 3:17:52.320 ignorant or whatever. 3:17:52.400 --> 3:17:56.160 You know. So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who 3:17:57.000 --> 3:17:59.840 don't want to either don't want to engage with this 3:18:00.080 --> 3:18:03.600 at all, or I'm mad at you for even partially 3:18:03.640 --> 3:18:06.879 engaging with it, it's nice to find the people that 3:18:06.959 --> 3:18:08.640 you know in love and like to joke around with 3:18:08.720 --> 3:18:12.800 and be like, we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and 3:18:13.160 --> 3:18:14.760 then we go, yeah, we're not, and then we have 3:18:14.800 --> 3:18:17.280 a good time. Yeah, check that out, and thank you 3:18:17.360 --> 3:18:19.160 and thank you to everyone. A cool zon media. 3:18:19.240 --> 3:18:23.920 Yay, Yeah, go follow Matt, Go see Matt and his 3:18:24.440 --> 3:18:28.360 uh my crush his wife, don't tell her, and yeah 3:18:28.840 --> 3:18:32.720 they're they're really doing the work and I really appreciate 3:18:32.760 --> 3:18:36.200 both of you guys just being really outspoken always, and 3:18:36.280 --> 3:18:40.320 so yeah, follow their lead, keep talking about Palestine. There's 3:18:40.360 --> 3:18:45.600 still a fucking genocide happening. And that's the episode. 3:18:45.959 --> 3:18:52.080 All right, bye everyone, Hi Pree Palestine pre Palestine. 3:18:53.200 --> 3:18:56.400 Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:18:56.440 --> 3:18:58.360 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:18:58.959 --> 3:19:01.440 It Could Happen here as production of cool Zone Media. 3:19:01.520 --> 3:19:04.199 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:19:04.240 --> 3:19:07.360 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:19:07.400 --> 3:19:10.560 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:19:10.600 --> 3:19:13.240 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 3:19:13.320 --> 3:19:16.560 Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.