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Speaker 1: Fo Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. Welcome to it could

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Speaker 2: happen here a podcast about things falling apart. And you know, folks,

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Speaker 2: season one of this, if you listened way back in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, we focused a lot on my fears about

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Speaker 2: a massive coming civil conflict in the United States, you know,

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Speaker 2: along the lines of a civil war, but sort of

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Speaker 2: based around my experiences in civil conflicts in Ukraine and

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Speaker 2: Iraq and Syria a number of other parts of the

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Speaker 2: world prior to twenty twenty. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: I'm bringing this up right now is because you know,

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Speaker 2: what I experienced with the fighting in Isis in Iraq

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Speaker 2: was kind of instrumental in me understanding how conflict looked

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Speaker 2: in the modern era and how the United States was

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Speaker 2: closer to a conflict like that, then I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks would, normally, especially people who are kind

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Speaker 2: of obsessed with the idea of a civil war, as

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Speaker 2: two big armies in gray and blue marching at each other,

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Speaker 2: we're willing to kind of to contend with. And when

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Speaker 2: I was starting that reporting over there, you know, taking

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Speaker 2: my first trips to Iraq, one of the first things

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Speaker 2: that I did was watch every Isis beheading video and

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Speaker 2: some of the Al Qaida in Iraq beheading videos prior

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Speaker 2: to that, not as a voyeuristic thing, but because I

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Speaker 2: felt like if I was going to take myself and

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Speaker 2: another person into that situation, the responsible thing to do

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Speaker 2: was make myself very informed of what the stakes were.

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Speaker 2: And I'm bringing this all up not because we're talking

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Speaker 2: about the Middle East today, because we are talking about

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Speaker 2: a beheading video, probably the first beheading video directly tied

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Speaker 2: to the US CO Cuncture war that I can I

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Speaker 2: can name, and I'm gonna throw to Garrison Davis now.

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Speaker 3: All right, So last week, I believe most of this

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Speaker 3: went down. On January thirtieth, a thirty two year old

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Speaker 3: man named Justin Mohan shot his father in the head

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Speaker 3: with a handgun he bought the day previously, and then

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Speaker 3: used a kitchenknife and machete to allegedly again this is

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Speaker 3: all a quote unquote allegedly allegedly yes to allegedly.

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Speaker 2: Alleged by him in the video that he recorded, Yes

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Speaker 2: cut off his father's head in a bathtub.

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Speaker 3: He put it in a pot, and then recorded a

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Speaker 3: video which he posted publicly onto YouTube. It was about

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Speaker 3: fifteen minutes long titled Moan's Militia Called to Arms for

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Speaker 3: American Patriots, where he ranted about a number of things

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Speaker 3: and mostly called for the killing of federal employees. He fled.

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Speaker 3: I think he went a slightly upstate towards a National

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Speaker 3: Guard training camp and then was arrested a few hours

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Speaker 3: later after his mother found the severed head and body

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Speaker 3: of her husband in the house that they all lived

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Speaker 3: in together. This is one of the most bizarre acts

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Speaker 3: of extremist violence that I've come across in terms of

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Speaker 3: like the amount of research I've done to this, and

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Speaker 3: I think it kind of points at a this trend

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Speaker 3: of extremist acts of violence done by people who have

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Speaker 3: a lot of content on the internet, not just like

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Speaker 3: posting manifestos, but like are positioning themselves as some form

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Speaker 3: of like alternative content creator. This guy had a lot

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Speaker 3: of music, had a lot of self published books. In

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Speaker 3: lieu of leaving like a complete single manifesto, we get

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Speaker 3: these just years of writing and like artistic creations that

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Speaker 3: now live on archive dot org as kind of ghosts

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Speaker 3: of this guy's presence.

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Speaker 2: And I think what's interesting about that is that shift

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Speaker 2: between between and I think the christ Church shooter is

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Speaker 2: probably like the KT boundary of this particular evolutionary shift

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Speaker 2: from like the norm would be that you would produce

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Speaker 2: a specific manifesto as an act, like a political act,

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Speaker 2: as part of whatever of active violence you carried, and

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Speaker 2: the goal was both to inspire other people to act

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Speaker 2: and to, you know, partly just to frame yourself as

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Speaker 2: something besides alone maniac. And I think one of the

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Speaker 2: things that's really interesting about this shift to an increasing

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Speaker 2: number of these people representing what they're doing in fiction

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Speaker 2: in some way or in some other kind of creative

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Speaker 2: endeavor is that it sort of mirrors the idea that like,

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Speaker 2: in our culture, the thing that people most want to

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Speaker 2: be is some sort of like influencer content creator, Like

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Speaker 2: that's the top desired job among like a lot of

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Speaker 2: gen Z kids, and it's also just increasingly like the

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Speaker 2: thing that people creatively want to see themselves as, and

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Speaker 2: so like, I think this fits into this trend of violence,

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Speaker 2: that is that is foreshadowed by someone, not by a

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Speaker 2: work of like political thought, you know, which you may

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Speaker 2: not want to think of a manifesto as that, but

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Speaker 2: that is what it is, but is preceded instead by art.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I'll talk about a few kind

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Speaker 3: of semi similar or at least other cases that have

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Speaker 3: some curious linkages, probably close to the end of the episode,

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Speaker 3: but I have some writing here prepared about the about

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Speaker 3: the beheading video itself, and then a few other kind

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Speaker 3: of random stuff about the art that he's made, and

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Speaker 3: Robert will probably fill in some useful gaps because Robert

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Speaker 3: acquired a very special piece of literature recently.

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Speaker 2: So the night that this went down, as soon as

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Speaker 2: I found out this guy had written not just a book,

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Speaker 2: but multiple books, I was like, well, I kind of

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Speaker 2: want to read these, and I know they're going to

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Speaker 2: get pulled by tomorrow and Amazon will probably Amazon can

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Speaker 2: just take back the kindle books that you buy from them,

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Speaker 2: So I ordered a hard copy of the book that

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Speaker 2: seemed like the most meaningful to him. It's called The

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Speaker 2: Second Messiah, King of Earth by Justin Mohen. It is

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Speaker 2: distressingly thick, like four hundred and fifty pages or so.

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Speaker 2: It is so much book. And the weird thing about it,

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Speaker 2: I've read through a chunk of it, and we will

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Speaker 2: be getting to some of it. It's not badly written,

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Speaker 2: and I want to be clear, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: like he's a good writer in the commercial sense, or

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Speaker 2: that he's a good writer in that like he's a

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Speaker 2: skilled artist. I'm saying that, like it's clear writing. You're

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Speaker 2: always sure what he's trying to say. When he depicts

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Speaker 2: the vinces happening. Those events are crazy, but like he's

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Speaker 2: they're clearly depicted, which is interesting to me. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: we will be hearing about more of that in part too.

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Speaker 2: But I have learned a decent amount about him from

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Speaker 2: this book, The Second Messiah King of Earth.

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Speaker 3: So let's get into that fifteen minute video. He starts

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Speaker 3: by holding up what is alleged to be his father's

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Speaker 3: head inside a plastic bag. He holds up for a

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Speaker 3: few seconds and then starts talking. Now, my my initial

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Speaker 3: reaction to this video is just how unremarkable most of

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Speaker 3: this rant is. There's like calling for killing federal employees,

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Speaker 3: which is like the one thing people do that.

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Speaker 4: But also you can hear so.

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Speaker 3: Many of the sentiments that he talks about from Fox

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Speaker 3: News contributors, from popular right wing podcast hosts, and even

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Speaker 3: sitting politicians. They also talk about how quote America is

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Speaker 3: rotting from the inside out as far left woke mobs

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Speaker 3: rampage are once prosperous cities, turning them into lawless zones.

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Speaker 4: Unquote.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, use that term a lot, lawless zones. That's that

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Speaker 3: he's The term probably comes up like about ten times

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Speaker 3: across this whole video.

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Speaker 2: And I want to I think we need to start

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Speaker 2: before we get further into this with the elephant in

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Speaker 2: the room, which is like a lot and what a

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Speaker 2: lot of people say about this guy, Well, this man

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Speaker 2: was mentally ill, and that is absolutely the case. You know,

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Speaker 2: I add the disclaimer whenever we talk about mental illness

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Speaker 2: and mass shootings, people who are mentally ill, people who

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Speaker 2: are schizophrenic are not more likely to do this kind

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Speaker 2: of violence than anybody else. But that said, when they

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Speaker 2: do it, they're also not necessarily less responsible. And what

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Speaker 2: I mean by that is a person can be mentally

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Speaker 2: ill and engage in a shooting, and that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't pay attention to what they are or another

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Speaker 2: act of violence. That doesn't mean you don't pay attention

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Speaker 2: to why they're saying they did it. The fact that

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Speaker 2: this guy is clearly I believe, schizophrenic does not mean

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Speaker 2: that his reasons for doing this are immaterial, because most

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Speaker 2: people who have whatever mental illness this guy did have

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Speaker 2: do not cut their dad's head off. So the fact

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Speaker 2: that he is justifying it with this very boilerplate set

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Speaker 2: of right wing culture war grievances is meaningful. And it's

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Speaker 2: meaningful because absent that influence in his life, perhaps he

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Speaker 2: either doesn't carry out an act of violence or it's

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Speaker 2: at least a very different looking one, And so I

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Speaker 2: think that is important to just get out to upfront.

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Speaker 3: He certainly had years of experiencing paranoia, some conspiratorial thinking,

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Speaker 3: but specifically the ayre directed towards his own conception of

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Speaker 3: the federal government and how it is leading to society

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Speaker 3: decay is what sparked this act of violence and is

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Speaker 3: why he called for copycat killings. So yes, inside this rant,

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Speaker 3: justin Mohan talks about taxes, inflation, and an economy that

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Speaker 3: no longer serves American citizens. He mentions how the traitorous

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Speaker 3: Biden regime is sending over American troops to fight in

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Speaker 3: a doomed war in the Russian winter, leaving America defenseless

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Speaker 3: against a quote fifth column army of illegal immigrants invading

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Speaker 3: our southern border to strike Americans on our own soil. Unquote.

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Speaker 3: That's another term he uses a lot, fifth column. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: probly says it like four or five times.

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Speaker 2: And that's a very old term. That's a term that

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Speaker 2: you would hear in a lot of John Birch materially

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Speaker 2: the middle of the last century, you know.

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Speaker 3: So Moan identified himself as quote the commander of America's

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Speaker 3: National Network of Militias, also known as Moan's Militia, which

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Speaker 3: seems to be mostly a delusion. He had no known

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Speaker 3: connections to actual militias in his state or any other states.

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Speaker 3: This seemed to be an idea that he got into

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Speaker 3: his own head. He then ordered all quote militias and

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Speaker 3: patriots across the country to quote hunt down and murder

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Speaker 3: every federal employee on site, and to sieze all courthouses, FBI,

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Speaker 3: i rs, and federal law enforcement offices, to kill and

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Speaker 3: capture all border patrol, US marshals, federal agents and judges

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Speaker 3: and quote, torture them for information and publicly execute them

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Speaker 3: for betraying the country unquote. He had this, really, he

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Speaker 3: had this line that stuck out to me. I didn't copy.

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Speaker 3: This is a long video. I did not copy every

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Speaker 3: single thing he said. He also is this is one

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Speaker 3: line he included, earn your place in heaven by sending

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Speaker 3: a traitor to hell early with just the cold, like,

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Speaker 3: very like emotionless way.

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Speaker 4: He said. That kind of stuck with me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and that is not a belief that you have

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Speaker 2: to go to a guy experiencing mental health crisis to

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Speaker 2: find you can hear shades of this all over fucking Twitter,

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Speaker 2: among other places.

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Speaker 3: Can you hear this if you listen to certain right

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Speaker 3: wingers give public comment like yeah, in your local city

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Speaker 3: council like it's not.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 3: Moan asked that police, veterans, and National Guard join the fight,

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Speaker 3: or else cities like Philadelphia will turn into lawless zones

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Speaker 3: like Portland and San Francisco. He also asked local militias

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Speaker 3: to be his own personal security force so that federal

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Speaker 3: employees do not try to arrest him.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He said that state governments should be left alone unless

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Speaker 3: they intervene. In his revolution, quote, the federal government is

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Speaker 3: the enemy. Then Mohne declared that quote, Joe Biden is

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Speaker 3: no longer in power. I am now officially the acting

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Speaker 3: president under martial law unquote. He ordered military generals to

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Speaker 3: not deploy US troops against US militias and instead join

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Speaker 3: their fight to defend the constitution.

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Speaker 2: It would be fun if the constitution worked that way,

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Speaker 2: if like they'd put that in back in seventeen eighty seven,

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Speaker 2: like oh yeah, and if you know, if martial law

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Speaker 2: is declared. He's not around yet, but there's going to

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Speaker 2: be this guy just in Mode. He's a charge. So

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Speaker 2: this is one thing that I'm still slightly confused on. Well,

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Speaker 2: there's a few things that are obviously confusing. It seems confusing.

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Speaker 3: But Mode offered a one million dollar bounty on a

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Speaker 3: number of high level federal US employees and one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars for every federal judge and even docksed one

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Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania. He claimed to currently have ten million dollars

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Speaker 3: to exhaust on these bounties, and that is not that's.

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Speaker 4: Just not true. Yes, definitely not.

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Speaker 3: Man constantly can plain about how he's in a poor

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Speaker 3: financial situation as a result of a number of factors.

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Speaker 3: He does not have ten million dollars. Now, he ordered

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Speaker 3: all non military federal employees to resign before ending up

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Speaker 3: like his father. Now, his father was an employee at

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Speaker 3: the US Army Corps of Engineers for most twenty years.

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Speaker 3: He resigned, I think like last year or a few

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Speaker 3: years back. It's interesting he called for specifically non military

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Speaker 3: federal employees to resign. He was very pro military. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure if his father working for the US Army

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Speaker 3: Corps Engineers exactly that fits in to his ideology here.

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Speaker 3: But we're not laying out a clear line of thinking.

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Speaker 2: Obviously it is. This is just slightly off topic. But

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Speaker 2: it's never not fascinating to me how strong the feeling

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Speaker 2: of emotional attachment to the US military is, Like that

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Speaker 2: even this guy would be like, this guy who was

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Speaker 2: so clearly deranged and violent about this kind of thing

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Speaker 2: would be like but they're the exception, Like there's obviously

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Speaker 2: still basically good. It's just interesting to me, what else

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Speaker 2: is interesting to me. Garrison is where our money comes from.

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Speaker 2: And you know where our money comes from.

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Speaker 4: The Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 2: Yes, actually we are sponsored entirely, entirely by the Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 2: So please, I mean literally, anything you do will I

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Speaker 2: guess help the Federal Reserve. So go exist in capitalism

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Speaker 2: and we're.

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Speaker 3: Back speaking of another federal agency. One agency that Moan

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Speaker 3: addressed directly was calling for the Postal Service to suspend

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Speaker 3: all services split from the federal government or else he

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Speaker 3: will not be able to offer protection. And Jesus Christ, no,

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Speaker 3: that's negotiating with the Postal Service.

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Speaker 4: That's very funny. I mean, this is serious, but that

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Speaker 4: is kind of funny. This guy is into Nazi. He's

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Speaker 4: not a Nazi.

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Speaker 3: He is a He's an extremist. He is a he

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Speaker 3: is a conservative extremist.

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Speaker 2: He does repeatedly in his book, by the way, also

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Speaker 2: talk about like racism being bad like that is like

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Speaker 2: very much a consistent through line.

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Speaker 3: But some of this like kill your local postman type

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Speaker 3: stuff certainly reflects a strain of extrememist, neo Nazi thinking.

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Speaker 3: That particularly James Mason's stuff from the eighties. Yes, so

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Speaker 3: he also said quote if the media spreads lives with

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Speaker 3: this revolution, I authorize the targeting of news stations, their

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Speaker 3: owners and employees general kind of conservative, anti anti news,

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Speaker 3: anti journalist rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: Quote.

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Speaker 3: The hunting, capturing, and killing of America's federal employees will

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Speaker 3: not stop until americans demands are met and the network

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Speaker 3: of America's traders is wiped out unquote. Now, some of

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Speaker 3: these demands that he called for includes closing the borders,

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Speaker 3: mass deportation of immigrants that have entered under the Biden regime,

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Speaker 3: ceasing all human trafficking of children and sex slaves, which

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Speaker 3: is obviously already illegal, canceling all public debt, an end

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Speaker 3: to the Federal Reserve, restore Congress's right to print interest

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Speaker 3: free money. Oh, and and ceasing all of the quote

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Speaker 3: woke and gender ideology propaganda in the schools unquote. So

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Speaker 3: we have a weird mix of like very like libertarian

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Speaker 3: stuff like the federal reserve, interest free money, and then

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Speaker 3: other more popular conservative stuff around like the border, and

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Speaker 3: then this thing about woke and gender ideology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's even a little like nessah Jesra stuff in

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Speaker 2: there too, about like the whole like allow the government

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Speaker 2: to print interest free money again, like that's that's it's

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Speaker 2: interesting that that's mixed in tomatoe as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's a it's a curious collection

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Speaker 3: of political thought. Now, traders to the country included not

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Speaker 3: just federal employees, but also quote bribed members of the

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Speaker 3: deep state, labor racketeers of the prison industrial complex, and

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Speaker 3: globalist leaders of assorted industries unquote. Now there's there's a

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Speaker 3: lot to unpacked there. Bribe members of the deep state.

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Speaker 3: I think it doesn't need any explanation. But Moan had

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Speaker 3: this idea that labor unions were working with corporations to

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Speaker 3: make straight white males have a hard time to find jobs,

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Speaker 3: so they would so that they would always be unemployed,

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Speaker 3: and unemployment leads to people being arrested and sent to

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Speaker 3: prison as a way to fund the court system. So

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Speaker 3: this is what he means by labor racketeers of the

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Speaker 3: prison industrial complex. It's that labor unions are colluding with

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Speaker 3: the government and businesses to keep certain sects of the

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Speaker 3: population unemployed to fill up prisons. Now, in terms of

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Speaker 3: globalist leaders of assorted industries, he specifically was talking about

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Speaker 3: big tech companies that commit tax evasion. He claimed that

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Speaker 3: he used to work for Microsoft and witnessed massive time eccivation.

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Speaker 3: I have not looked into that.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe he will definitely do. Like, yeah, they

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Speaker 4: all do.

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Speaker 2: It's not I don't think they break the law because

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Speaker 2: they have whole departments of people who are there to

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Speaker 2: make sure that at least they're not breaking the law

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Speaker 2: enough that it will matter. But like whatever, I mean again,

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Speaker 2: some of this does.

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Speaker 4: Some of all.

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Speaker 2: Grievances like this come from real things, like the corporations

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Speaker 2: like Microsoft that are tremendously wealthy do not pay their

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Speaker 2: fair share and in fact do a great deal to

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Speaker 2: allide their tax burden. He's just like, yeah, It's one

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Speaker 2: of the frustrating things about this is how all of

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Speaker 2: this actual malfeasance feeds into these delusions and feeds into

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Speaker 2: the conspiratorial narratives of the people that take advantage of

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Speaker 2: people like justin Yep.

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Speaker 3: He said that Marshal Law will continue as long as

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Speaker 3: Americans support him and until America is secured enough to

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Speaker 3: hold a legitimate election, and that Moan would authorize police

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Speaker 3: a military to use any force necessary to take back

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Speaker 3: because the city is from quote fifth column extremist organizations

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Speaker 3: such as the lgbt community, the BLM movement, and terrorist

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Speaker 3: organizations like Antifa.

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Speaker 4: Unquote.

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Speaker 3: This is where he went on a whole Antifa rant,

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Speaker 3: saying Antifa is a part of the Federal government's systematic,

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Speaker 3: top down, globalist and communist takeover of America. Moan stressed

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Speaker 3: the importance of capturing alive quote one of the key

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Speaker 3: players involved in this treason, or else they will never

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Speaker 3: be able to discover the entire network of evil. Unquote.

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Speaker 3: So Moan blamed Antifa, BLM, and the LGBTQ community for

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Speaker 3: stoking a division to create a race war and religious war.

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Speaker 3: It's it's just it's it's it's it's hard to hold

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Speaker 3: to hold the justification of your You're accusing people of

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Speaker 3: stoking division as you're holding up the severed head of

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Speaker 3: your father. Like, there's just that a complete disconnect here.

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Speaker 4: Quote.

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Speaker 3: The government has disallowed any peaceful solution. Violence is the

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Speaker 3: only solution to the Fed government's treason and the actions

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Speaker 3: of their fifth column terrorist organizations like Antifa. This is

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Speaker 3: an ideological and spiritual war unquote.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very similar in some ways to what McVeigh was saying, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: this is the only way to communicate with the government.

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Speaker 2: It's the only language that they understand.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then lastly, he kind of closes this video with

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Speaker 3: a further look into some of his own political delusions.

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Speaker 3: He said that before the twenty twenty elections, electors and

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Speaker 3: campaign contributors from both parties said that they saw Justin

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Speaker 3: Mohan as the best candidate for the president of America.

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Speaker 3: He's thirty two years old. He was like twenty eight

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Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 4: Quote.

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Speaker 3: I could have been the first unanimously elected president, but

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Speaker 3: I was betrayed by the FBI, federal courts, and my

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Speaker 3: own family because there are people that believe I am

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Speaker 3: the Messiah, which goes against the government's satanic communist ideology.

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Speaker 2: Quick note, if all of those groups didn't want you

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Speaker 2: to be president, how would you have been elected unanimously

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Speaker 2: or would the FBI have been like, well, now that

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Speaker 2: he's on the ballot, we got to vote for the guy.

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Speaker 3: So after saying there are many people that believe I

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Speaker 3: am the Messiah, he then said, quote, I would never

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Speaker 3: compare myself to Jesus Christ, unquote, which is not true.

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Speaker 3: He has many times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he sure has.

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Speaker 2: You know, most notably in the title of his book

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Speaker 2: The Second Messiah, King of Earth by Justin Mohan. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: although that is about his self insert character who he

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Speaker 2: says lives a life identical to his named Buster moon.

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Speaker 4: Buster moon Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: And then I will do the last little bit about

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Speaker 3: this video. Quote, if there is a federal employee in

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Speaker 3: your family, make it your New Year's resolution to kill

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Speaker 3: them in order to protect your own children unquote home

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Speaker 3: and then Moan followed that by quoting from Matthew ten

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Speaker 3: twenty one. This is a verse in the New Testament.

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Speaker 3: Brothers and sisters will betray one another and have you

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Speaker 3: each other put to death. Parents will betray their own children,

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Speaker 3: and children will turn against their parents and have them

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Speaker 3: killed unquote.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because I've heard that sided before, and usually

403
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 2: it was in like older conspiracies of the New World Order,

404
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, that's what they believed the evil anti

405
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Speaker 2: Christ you win regime was going to do to them.

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Speaker 2: It's fun to hear someone be like, that's what we

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Speaker 2: have to kill the families of the people who are.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's what he's actually saying. He's saying

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Speaker 3: like he's talking about how he is felt betrayed by

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Speaker 3: his own family and by the government.

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Speaker 2: Oh gotcha, Okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: This points to like this massive disconnect in his own head.

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Speaker 3: This is the betrayal he's talking about. He is he

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Speaker 3: is using this verse as a reference to like the

415
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Speaker 3: end times, but he's saying like, this is the betrayal

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Speaker 3: that we're seeing and in response, now we have to

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Speaker 3: do this. So on, I'm going to quote from ABC

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Speaker 3: News here. So, the US Marshall Service investigated Moan in

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Speaker 3: August or twenty twenty three after he allegedly made a

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Speaker 3: threat against a U. S. District Court judge. The case

421
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: was closed that same month. He was reported to police

422
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: pretty frequently for his bizarre behavior in his own neighborhood,

423
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 3: like sitting on manhole covers and staring at houses for

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Speaker 3: hours on end. Now Mon has held CONSPIRATORI and anti

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Speaker 3: government views for at least seven years and attempted to

426
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Speaker 3: recruit people to join his Moan's militia on Reddit and Discord,

427
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: though no one seemed to join, and then at least

428
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: one Discord server threw him out because of his repeated

429
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: recruitment attempts and after fleeing home after he posted that video,

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Speaker 3: he drove more than one hundred miles north and broke

431
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Speaker 3: into the Pennsylvania National Guard base with a gun, and

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Speaker 3: then was arrested after he was tracked there on his

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Speaker 3: cell phone. There is a song that Justin wrote about

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Speaker 3: three years ago about being arrested after being tracked on

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Speaker 3: his cell phone after doing violence against his family.

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Speaker 2: You think he would have like not had a cell

437
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Speaker 2: phone on him, given that he was aware of that

438
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Speaker 2: as a risk.

439
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 3: But I don't know if he was really thinking large

440
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: like yeah, if you watch the video, like he like

441
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: he thinks National Guard is going to like join him, Yeah,

442
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 3: he's not.

443
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: He's not thinking about it that way.

444
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, I believe mon is published at this point

445
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: nine books. I'm going to read from his his Amazon

446
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: about page. Justimona is the author of seven books now nine,

447
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: and a musician of three albums and one single. His

448
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 3: life story is unbelievable and there may not be enough

449
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: words to describe him, but one may begin to understand

450
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: his complexity and experiences through his art. He only wishes

451
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 3: to bring positive change to the world. Now I will

452
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: I will talk about some of those some of those

453
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: other books after we take a quick ad break here

454
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: and learn about some important messages from our sponsors.

455
00:24:49,160 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

456
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 3: So justin Mohan's bibliography, here we go. So I think

457
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 3: Robert has one of his books, The Second Messiah, King

458
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: of Earth. Yeah, there is many other books he's published,

459
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 3: including a.

460
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 4: Book Startling Number.

461
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: A book called The Pink, a book called Poems I

462
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: Wrote Well Stoned, a collection of poems they will burn,

463
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: this book, The Punishing America's Coming Bloody Revolution, The Kingdom

464
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: of Darkness, dark Ages of the Future, a collection of

465
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: short stories, and finally, The Revolution Leader's Survival Guide. How schools, workplaces,

466
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: and social norms kill the genius inside us.

467
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: All not bad at titling, you know, so pretty pretty effective.

468
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 2: Good good for SEO.

469
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 4: I'm on board.

470
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 3: Let's start with that last book here, The Revolution Leader's

471
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: Survival Guide. It targets the quote constraints against education, creativity,

472
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: and human progress throughout history unquote, and the book is

473
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: mostly about Mohan's own inability to find a high paying

474
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 3: enough job after college. This is a reoccurring trend in

475
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: a lot of his books, including I Believe the one

476
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: that Robert has. Mon complains about student loans, how America's

477
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 3: education system is faulty, and talks about being bullied in

478
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: school as a kid. I'm going to quote from the

479
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 3: book subscription. The author views the world on the brink

480
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: of either a golden age of world peace and space colonization,

481
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: or instead a second dark age of global wars and

482
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 3: depopulation within the next couple of decades, if not sooner.

483
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: Included within the book is a transcript of a letter

484
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: Justin Mohan wrote to Donald Trump, warning that if America

485
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: does not go under some great changes, Moan himself will

486
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: have to lead a peaceful revolution. In another book titled

487
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 3: The Kingdom of Darkness, published on May thirteenth, twenty twenty,

488
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: it's a novel about Satan and fallen angels becoming quote

489
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: trapped inside Earth's slowliest creatures after being banished from heaven.

490
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: He has a whole bitch of other like fantasy and

491
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: sci fi type books like aliens space exploration, a weird

492
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: collection genre. In a pamphlet he self published on Amazon

493
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 3: in August of twenty twenty titled America's Coming Bloody Revolution,

494
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: The small book contains two chapters, one titled why a

495
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: violent revolution is inevitable and a second titled How revolution

496
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 3: can be successful, Moan wrote, quote, Americans will have to

497
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 3: weigh what is worse allowing themselves to lose freedom and

498
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: independence or killing their own family members, teachers, workers, bosses, judges,

499
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: elected leaders, and other older generations unquote. This is where

500
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 3: we get a lot of predictive writing around what he's

501
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: going to be doing. Mohne described older generations as quote

502
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: traders who wished to to take away the freedom and

503
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: independence that comes with America democracy and free market capitalism.

504
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: Which leads me then to the book that Robert has,

505
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: The Second to Messiah, which was published in January of

506
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. It's about a man named Buster Moon who

507
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 3: moves from Ohio to Colorado and quote painfully learns the

508
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: dark secret of Colorado from everything containing satanic cults, the

509
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: Democratic Party, and the Cold War. Now we will get

510
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: more into this book, specifically in a later episode. I'm

511
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: going to read a little bit from the back cover.

512
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 3: The only thing more absurd in this fiction book is

513
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: the fact that it's loosely based on the life of

514
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: author and musician Justin Mohan, whose four years stay in

515
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 3: Colorado caused multiple lawsuits changed the possible outcome of the

516
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty US presidential election by exposing three presidential candidates

517
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: as corrupt, which forced them to drop out of the race.

518
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 3: We have more of these presidential delusions that he was

519
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: talking about at the end of his beheading video here,

520
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: and in terms of how this mirrors, like I said,

521
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: we'll learn more about this book later, but I will

522
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: talk now some about his actual personal life, which will

523
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: then become slightly reflect did in the book, like going

524
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: to Colorado Springs. He graduated from Penn State with a

525
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: business management degree and sued the federal government multiple times

526
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: for letting him take out student loans that he was

527
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: forced to pay back. The most recent case was last year,

528
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: where he sued for ten million dollars because despite getting

529
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: a degree with the loans, he was unable to quote

530
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: find a satisfactory job as an over educated white man

531
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 3: to repay the loan, claiming that he was a victim

532
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: of affirmative action and reverse discrimination unquote. In a previously

533
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: dismissed lawsuit against the Department of Education, he alleged that

534
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: they neglectfully and fraudulently induced him to borrow money to

535
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: pay for his education without sufficiently warning him of the

536
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: possibility that he would face a difficult job market and

537
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: could be unable to pay back his student loan. So

538
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: Mohan did move to Colorado, just like Buster Moon about

539
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: ten years ago, eventually getting a job at Progressive Insurance,

540
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: but was fired in twenty seventeen for kicking down a

541
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: door and quote breaking the company's code of conduct. Moan

542
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: then sued Progressive in twenty nineteen for not receiving PROMI

543
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: motions because he was a man. In his Violent Revolution pamphlet,

544
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: Man claims that he was a victim of discrimination from

545
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: quote being a top performing, over educated, and overqualified male

546
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: employee unquote, and in that same pamphlet, Mohan wrote that

547
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: his educational, employment and legal issues are evident that there

548
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: is quote no peaceful solution for the youth to escape

549
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: debt based enslavement, unemployment, and ultimately imprisonment. He compared his

550
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 3: experience to quote the Soviet unions feared goolog prison labor

551
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: system and in which entire states and countries were essentially

552
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: turned into concentration camps. Mohan wrote that educators and parents

553
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: who quote knowingly lie, brainwash and dumb down their youth

554
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: unquote must be killed to prevent the spread of quote

555
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: globalized communism. And corporate agendas. This is where we have

556
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: an interesting combination of like anti communism fears but also

557
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: anti corporatism that you see in some sects of like

558
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 3: libertarian conservatism.

559
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 4: You sure do.

560
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 3: He claims that communism is like a virus and that

561
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: America must treat it like a virus. Quote the only

562
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: logical way to do so is for every American born

563
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety one or later to kill anyone born

564
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: before nineteen ninety one.

565
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: Unquote. Well now he's cooking, Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm

566
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 4: back on board. I'm back on board. You know, this

567
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 4: could work. So it just so happens. Said that was

568
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: the year that he was born. Uh huh yeah, yeah.

569
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: Logical logical point to divide it on. I'd respect it

570
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: more if he'd been born earlier, you know. But so

571
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: I already mentioned some of his music. It had similar

572
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: predictive elements of he was doing art in almost like

573
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: in practice of what he was then going to later

574
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: do in person in terms of carrying of violence, as

575
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: well as just evident of kind of delusional and paranoid thinking.

576
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: He has a song about being gang stocked. He has

577
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: a song about I Think like a girlfriend who broke

578
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: up with him. He has songs talking about how it's

579
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: okay to kill communists and how we're overall seeing a

580
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: decline in American society. So that that is most of

581
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: what I have to say about Justin Moune. I could

582
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: certainly say a whole lot more now on top of

583
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: my research onto him himself. I also wanted to look

584
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: at the sort of online chatter that neo Nazis and

585
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: other extremists were saying, and I put together, hey, a

586
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: large catalog of telegram conversations about Justin Moune, watching the

587
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: spread of certain conspiracy theories around this incident, and just

588
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: to see what their overall take was. Will I will

589
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: paraphrase my eighty page research document here by saying, it

590
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: seems most Nazis and other white supremacists or far right

591
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: extremists thought that the Justin Moone incident was quote fake

592
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: and gay unquote. They tend to keep up with these

593
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: these thought fluencers, really glad that they're kidding some of

594
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: their side.

595
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: Many other far right extremists took this to be a syop. Sure,

596
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: they thought it was an attempt to push forward this

597
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: anti militia bill. That's being talked about as well as

598
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: distract from the crisis at the southern border. Certain white

599
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: pharmacists were upset that he used the phrase to Judeo

600
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: Christian values because they are anti Semitic and Justin Moone

601
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: did not seem to be consciously anti Semitic. Yeah, and

602
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: had we had. These conspiracy theories travel everywhere, from standard

603
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: kind of neo Nazi telegram accounts to more conservative Boomer

604
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Mega type stuff as well, mostly picking up on the

605
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: on the on the anti militia angle, how this is

606
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: probably a syop from the deep state to push forward

607
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: this anti militia bill. Some people thought thought they were

608
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 3: very clever in realizing this was a syop because they

609
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: thought justinmone was thirty three years old. And there's this

610
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory around the number thirty three in a lot

611
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: of these circles, the conspiracies around how the number thirty

612
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: three is used a lot in like mass shooting incidents.

613
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: Now it's not this is just pattern recognition, but also

614
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: mon isn't thirty three, he's thirty two. So great, great

615
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: work there. And there's specifically one telegram channel that found

616
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 3: a prop head I believe on Etsy.

617
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, like a prop severed head.

618
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, we started seeing this spread all over Twitter, conservative

619
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: news sites. How this has to be fake because look

620
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 3: we found we found the fake head they used, which

621
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 3: is quite simply not the severed head that Justin Moan's

622
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 3: holding up in the video. I don't think it's really

623
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 3: much useful else to say about these conspiracy theories, but yeah,

624
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: they certainly were kind of laughing along at some of

625
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 3: like the gang Stocker e elements, thinking, you know, some

626
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 3: people obviously thought he was based and cool for actually

627
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: doing some of the ideological things that these Nazis believe in.

628
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: Others thought it was it's just fun to make fun

629
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: of a guy, so they decided it was a syop. Yeah,

630
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: that is That is most of what I had to

631
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: say about Justin Mohan.

632
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 2: Well, this has been quite an inspiring journey. We are

633
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: going to have more to say about Justin and finally

634
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: get into his book, The Second Messiah, King of Earth,

635
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: which is and in a way become my Bible. I

636
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: think I may I may keep this in my apocalypse

637
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: go bag, so I can do like a book of

638
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: Eli with this thing. If the world ends, just be

639
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: wandering alone across the wasteland telling everybody about this man's book.

640
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 4: I guess.

641
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: Finally, the last thing I'll say is that this reminds

642
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 3: me of two recent incidents. We had one mass shooting

643
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: done by a Nazi in Denver, Colorado, and he previously

644
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 3: wrote and made short films depicting the murder that he

645
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: would then do. We also had the Highland Park shooting

646
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: on July fourth a few years back. Who the person

647
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: who did that created a lot of music online in

648
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 3: this very like I would say the Highland Park music

649
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: was much more in like the Schizowave genre of extremist content.

650
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 3: I think the stuff, the stuff that Justin Mohan is

651
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: producing is honestly more like the stuff that schizo wave

652
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: is like parodying, Like Justin Moans was a lot more

653
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 3: like sincere, less less ironic.

654
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 5: Uh.

655
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 4: It was, it was, it was.

656
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: It was just like taking at face value these two

657
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 3: instances I was reminded of just because of how much

658
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 3: those acts of violence were predated by artistic expressions of

659
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: the later thing that they would end up doing. And yeh,

660
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: in Mohane's case, it's exactly the same. He has written

661
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: about killing family members, He's written about the exact way

662
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: he would be arrested and tracked down writing that goes

663
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: back like four or five years. This is there's so

664
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 3: many people online who have exact who are in this

665
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 3: same scenario, who are putting out this type of writing.

666
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 3: No one knows who they are. Moan had like five

667
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: listeners on Spotify. These people are unknown, and every once

668
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: in a while one of them decides that writing about

669
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 3: it isn't enough and they actually do it in the

670
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 3: real world. And it's just this, it's this interesting trend

671
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 3: of these people like almost like hyperstitioning these own acts

672
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: of violence by making art that predates it, almost in

673
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: some form of like preparation.

674
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

675
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we talked about hyperstition as a concept a

676
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: bit in last weeks Behind the Bastards, but it is

677
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: it is a term for essentially the methods and ways

678
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: by which things that are fictional become real. And it

679
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: can be kind of as esoteric as the idea of

680
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: like preparing the way for a godlike AI by like

681
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: spreading belief and that sort of thing, or it can

682
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: be as direct, like as this as somebody envisioning the

683
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 2: acts they're going to carry out in fiction and then

684
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: carrying out those acts for real, like it on an

685
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: individual level, what you're doing when you're doing this is

686
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: you're kind of you are preparing yourself mentally for the

687
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: thing that you're going to do. And when I would

688
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: sort of lecture and talk about what to how to

689
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: know something is like a real threat versus somebody saying

690
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: shit on the internet, because that's obviously that's a real

691
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: problem when we talk about this, there's a huge quantity

692
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: of people saying stuff that could be them presaging like

693
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 2: an act of violence, and you simply can't go after everything.

694
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: One of the key things for me always is what

695
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: have they gone and done anything in the real world.

696
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: So for example, if a guy has like been going

697
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: out and like egging homeless people or like lighting their

698
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 2: shit on fire, and is also talking about murdering homeless people,

699
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: well that's probably a guy who's going to do something

700
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: right because he's actively going out in the real world

701
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: and taking steps. He's prepping himself. And I think this

702
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 2: kind of work. When somebody's written a whole novel about

703
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: their murder fantasies, obviously that's not a thing you can

704
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: invest your convict on, but like nor should it be.

705
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: But that is somebody who is doing more than bullshitting online.

706
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,959
Speaker 2: That's somebody who has a fixation that they clearly can't

707
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: get over, and those do sometimes lead to violence. And

708
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think I think it's really valid to

709
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: look at this as not just a couple of incidents

710
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: that are troubling, but as evidence of a troubling trend.

711
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 4: Yep, all right, well that does a frustrating comment. Yeah,

712
00:38:59,360 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: all right.

713
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 3: Please do not earn your place in heaven by sending

714
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: a trader to hell early. It does not need to

715
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: work out very well.

716
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 4: No, earn your place in heaven. Uh.

717
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: I don't actually have a joke to finish this episode with.

718
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: Don't don't commit murder?

719
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 5: Bye?

720
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: Oh, Welcome back to Podcast Man Sad, Bad People, the

721
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: podcast about bad people that make the podcast Man Sad.

722
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: I'm the podcast Man Robert Evans, and my co host

723
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: today is our friend Garrison Davids. Garrison, how are you

724
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: doing good? I thought it was one of my better intros.

725
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: It was unfortunately quite good for a topic about it's

726
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 3: abensively deranged shit.

727
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So obviously this is part two of our

728
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: series on Justin Mohan, the author of our first politically.

729
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 3: The author first, just as author better known for his

730
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 3: other work.

731
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people should know that. When you make

732
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: that joke, as you did the other week on Behind

733
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: the Bastards Too, you are referring to a mathematics paper

734
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: that cites the Unibomber's other published mathematic theories. Is like

735
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: better known for his other work mailing bombs to people?

736
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 4: Oh, pretty funny.

737
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like the Unabomber, Justin Mohan is deeply accomplished,

738
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: as in all he's written more books than I have.

739
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 4: Well, yes, that is true.

740
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you want to be writing the

741
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: types of books that Justin is but yeah.

742
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 4: No, but but he did write them, and you get

743
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 4: credit for that. Sure.

744
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 2: So this was, as you stated last episode, published in

745
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and I I need to start with the

746
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: cover of this thing, because it's it's something else.

747
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 4: We see, not a good cover.

748
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: No, it is taken. He appears to have taken it

749
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 2: or someone else took it from of him very close

750
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 2: up at a rest stop. And this is relevant because

751
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: rest stops play a critical critical role in some of

752
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: his beliefs about the world and some of his theories

753
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 2: about things that have happened to us. Yes, rest stops

754
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 2: are happening places for Justin Mohan. Okay, he is looking

755
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: behind him, He's like slightly disheveled. He's got like his

756
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: shirt open weirdly down like a button further than.

757
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm basically gang stocking vibes here.

758
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very much. Again, we'll explain gang stocking in

759
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: a second. But the pictures him, he's like looking behind

760
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: his shoulder. There's like two big lights behind him in

761
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: the distance in this photo, clearly taking it a rest stop.

762
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: And then there are like cartoon text bubbles over his

763
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 2: shoulder next to the lights that say get his picture, Hey,

764
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: there he is, and then like cartoon action bubbles that

765
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: say snap, snap, that I think are supposed to represent

766
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: people taking photos taking pictures.

767
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay this.

768
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: As soon as I saw this, I had the same

769
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: reaction you had, which is like, oh, this is some

770
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 2: gang stocking shit. And if you're not aware of gang stocking,

771
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: gang stocking is kind of an er web two point

772
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: zero conspiratorial belief system. I don't know if a conspiracy

773
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: theory is even really the right way to frame it.

774
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: Gang Stalking is people who have I think these are

775
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: generally people with schizophrenia, and one of the things that

776
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: you can experience with schizophrenia is both this kind of

777
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: overwhelming sense of paranoia and also the stereotypical hearing voices right,

778
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: and some people become convinced that they are being followed.

779
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: You know, this is something that has happened probably as

780
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: long as that it has existed, that they are being

781
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: like tracked, that they are people who are listening in

782
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: on their thoughts. You hear variations of it. With the

783
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: internet and digital communities, A chunk of people experiencing this

784
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: started forming communities online, and I don't know the exact

785
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone has sort of like sketched

786
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: out how this happened in time, but the belief they

787
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 2: ended up at is that certain people are what are

788
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: called targeted individuals within the community, and those people are

789
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: being stalked at all times by large numbers of generally

790
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: government spies. Now when I say government spies, they are

791
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: not envisioning like a James Bond type operator. They believe

792
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 2: these are the regular people in the street around them,

793
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 2: like people in their neighborhood. Their neighbors are all spies

794
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: and are all stalking them all the time. And you

795
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 2: can watch hours of videos. These people will often film

796
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: eight hours of their life at a stretch, and you

797
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: can see them just like angrily shouting at their window

798
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 2: at like some dude walking past their house or whatever,

799
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: or like a car. You like see that blue cars

800
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: past three times, and that wouldn't happen if this wasn't

801
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: like that. And it's so one of the things that like,

802
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that gang Stocking is kind of

803
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: interesting and valuable to study if you're interested in, like

804
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: how we got to our present moment of like reality

805
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: collapse in the United States, is that this is an

806
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: example of kind of feelings that have been associated with

807
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: certain mental illnesses. I'm not going to say it's just schizophreny,

808
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: but certain mental illnesses bring about severe bouts of paranoia

809
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 2: and a feeling that you are being stalked right or

810
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: people who are listening in on your thoughts or whatever.

811
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: Because of the way digital communities work, a number of

812
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: people experiencing this were able to not just get together

813
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: and share their experiences, but convince each other that they

814
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: were not the result of an illness and are in

815
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: fact the result of a conspiracy. And they have now

816
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: built a mythos around that conspiracy, and it has led

817
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: to killings before. People have killed folks they believed were

818
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: stalking them over gang stalking delusions. It's been happening for years.

819
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was the first thing that occurred to

820
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: me when I saw this cover. And you can find

821
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 2: other art that Moan put out where it's like real

822
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: pictures of him and then fake art of like ghostly

823
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: figures stalking him with cameras and stuff.

824
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

825
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: A few months before he released his book, he put

826
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: out a song that's I called the Justin's Stalkers about

827
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 3: being gang stocked.

828
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 6: Yeah.

829
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, gangstock is not a political conspiracy theory

830
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: other than that you have to believe the government's evil,

831
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: but don't we all right, So it's very accessible.

832
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 3: There's certain gangstalking people who think they're like the Freemasons

833
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 3: are stocking here, like the Illuminati is stalking.

834
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: It's like random Antifa, you know.

835
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: And sure, yeah, shit gets grafted on as a result

836
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: of politics, but it did not inherently start as something

837
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 2: that was like a political thing, just kind of out

838
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: of this very ex filesy because the nineties is really

839
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: when this starts to form. I think late nineties.

840
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: And it's spread like wildfire are on. Like early Internet culture,

841
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: people were able to convince each other or like yeah,

842
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: have have their alreadies, like like a small delusion be

843
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: strengthened and grown stronger by other people in this community,

844
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 3: all kind of encouraging each other.

845
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: And I think it's relevant too that it's kind of

846
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: a Web two point zero early Web two point oh phenomenon,

847
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: because I don't think you get the same thing, and

848
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say that what you would get

849
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: would be any healthier, but from the social media, because

850
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: the way most social media works is everyone's kind of

851
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: in a big pit together, and this was really the

852
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: result of a kind of community that was closed to outsiders,

853
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 2: that wasn't really being watched by people who weren't drawn

854
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: to it, building a culture in people like really, it

855
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 2: takes a lot of time for that to happen. Obviously,

856
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: YouTube is also a big place where this has grown,

857
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: but I think after it had its roots established that

858
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: was a bit of a digression. But I think it

859
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: is kind of necessary because this is definitely that is

860
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: definitely where justin comes out of you know, like that

861
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: is very clear to me. All of this is kind

862
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: of rooted fundamentally in Gang Stocking. I think that's like

863
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: the foundational keystone belief in what has become his like

864
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: conspiratorial milieu. So into the book itself, the first page,

865
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: after the page that lets us all know Kindled direct

866
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: publishing this responsible for this thing, says book Love.

867
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: Kindles right publish it.

868
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: Thanks, Amazon the best place to find all of the

869
00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 3: wild extra.

870
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 4: Otherwise, never never.

871
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: Make They've they've really done us all a solid. This

872
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: book is dedicated to those who know who the real

873
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: enemy is and can still laugh even in the worst situations. Hope,

874
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: I don't know what I have that describes me. Yeah,

875
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: it's great. So there are ten chapters in this thing.

876
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: They are long chapters. Chapter one is thirty two pages,

877
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 2: Chapter two is almost sixty pages, Jesus. Chapter three is

878
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: like another sixty pages, like fifty pages for five. Yeah,

879
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: these are like long, long chapters. And yeah, it's about

880
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty pages.

881
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 6: Wow.

882
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: So chapter one opens and I'm just gonna read you

883
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: actually a decent little chunk here. So it starts with

884
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: like him talking to his parents, But why leave Buster,

885
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: You're a hometown hero, Missus Moon said. Missus Moon in

886
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: her late fifties, paced back and forth on the hardwood

887
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: floor of the living room. Yeah, Buster, you're popular. You

888
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: were at the top of your class in high school,

889
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: you were a star athlete. You can end up mayor

890
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: of this town someday. Why don't you stay around here

891
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 2: where everyone knows you and see what happens. You'll have

892
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: to start a new elsewhere, mister Moon said. And obviously,

893
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: Buster Moon is are the actual justin Mohan And we're

894
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: talking about his parents, and when we talk about mister Moon,

895
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: this is his dad who he.

896
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 4: Murdered and beheaded. Just you know, keep that in mind.

897
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: Mister Moon, in his early sixties, sat on a couch

898
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: in the living room watching television. A black and white

899
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: episode of The Twilight Zone was on. The sound on

900
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 2: the TV was muted. That's the point. I want to

901
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 2: start anew I want to meet new people, or at

902
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: least not associate with the people I grew up with

903
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: and went to school with my whole life. They're all

904
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 2: going nowhere in town, and they'll take me down with them.

905
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: And we get a little more of that where like

906
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: he's talking about why he wants he's not happy here.

907
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: There's no future for him. What's interesting to me is

908
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: why he depicts and we don't know that this is

909
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 2: accurate to his experience with his parents. But also I

910
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think it is not, because what he depicts

911
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: his parents as saying is he shouldn't do this because

912
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: it's danger Leaving home is dangerous. You can't be safe

913
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: on your own in a new place or in the city,

914
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: and you will inevitably get murdered or have something horrible happen.

915
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: He puts these words in his dad's mouth right after

916
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: he like, first his mom tells him, like, you're gonna

917
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: die if you move out, and then he puts this

918
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 2: in his dad's mouth, Yeah, you're going to get kidnapped,

919
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: addicted to heroin, and sold into a sex trafficking rink.

920
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: Then five years from now, we'll find pictures of you

921
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: bound and gagged on some Russian website where you're up

922
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: for sale. So that's his dad, and then his mom ads,

923
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: why do you think your older siblings stayed within Ohio

924
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: when they moved out. It's dangerous out of state without

925
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 2: your family. So maybe that's just him putting words.

926
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: In their mouth.

927
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: But like, I have heard stuff like that from people

928
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 2: that is not an uncommon thing to express, especially among

929
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: conservative families. Cities are dangerous, people are getting human trafficked

930
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 2: all the time. It's not safe to be out on

931
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: your own.

932
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: And those are some things he talked about in his

933
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: beheading video. And yeah, I know that after he had

934
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 3: to move back home from Colorado after losing his job,

935
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: he did move back in with his parents in Pennsylvania. Yep,

936
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: he does have an older sister that just ran in

937
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 3: other things. I know his actual personal life and how

938
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 3: they could maybe tie in.

939
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you know, a little

940
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: bit later, as this argument goes on, there is a

941
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: note where his mom's like, maybe it would be for

942
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: the best if we took you to a psychiatrist. Buster,

943
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: you don't seem to be thinking straight.

944
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 4: Interesting. Unclear to me if.

945
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 2: They did, but I think that does kind of suggest

946
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: that was a thing his parents suggested often. And then

947
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 2: his dad says, yeah, you're talking crazy, Buster. If someone

948
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: doesn't mug you when you step out of the car,

949
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: you'll end up running out of money and being homeless,

950
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 2: and then you'll get put in prison for panhandling, trespassing

951
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 2: or stealing food and ended up making prison love to

952
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 2: Bubba the butcher, and that has the feeling of something

953
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: that he heard before. That that's pretty specific, like that

954
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: sounds like something somebody was told and is kind of

955
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: repeating here. You know, I don't know that, but that

956
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: is very much the feel it has. And there's a

957
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: couple other bits where it's like, I could see this

958
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: being something you heard from your very conservative family or

959
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: elsewise picked up in the media. Because there's another point

960
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: where his dad is like, you'll be all alone and

961
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 2: they know exactly how much money you have. It's all digital.

962
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: You can't beat the system. You can't beat dot dot dot.

963
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: And then in italics the machine missus Moon shot a

964
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: white eyed glance.

965
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 4: At mister Moon.

966
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 2: Huh, what do you mean, buster said, Mister Moon shook

967
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: his head. Oh, nothing, you'll have to find out for yourself.

968
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: And then at this point a cow screams. That's how

969
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 2: he describes the cow as screaming. And then their dog

970
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 2: barks and they all run outside. It's clear that something

971
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: has gone wrong, and mister Moon says, aw, hell not again,

972
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: those cult fucking commie bastards. He grabs a shotgun and

973
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: there they find the ex sanguinated and skinned corpse of

974
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 2: the family cow outside in the.

975
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 3: Yard because they're at like a farm in Ohio, I believe.

976
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're at like the family. So he thinks at

977
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 2: first that this hide as a carpet. Then Buster realized

978
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 2: the carpet had black and white spots like a cow

979
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: and was hide material. The cow had been completely exsanguinated,

980
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 2: as the livestock industry would call an animal drained of blood.

981
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 2: The cow's eyes were missing, the bones were strewn in

982
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 2: a perfect circle around the cowhide in an almost ritualistic

983
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 2: or ceremonial manner, with a skull at the top of

984
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: the circle. Will twelve would be on a clock about

985
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: the same time it was. Then there was not one

986
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: drop of blood near the scene.

987
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 4: Huh.

988
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: Now, when I brought up x files earlier, that's kind

989
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: of why, because that's x files stuff.

990
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: That's a very x files opening up. The Twilight Zone

991
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: was playing on the TV in the room in the scene.

992
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

993
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: This is all obviously, by the way, if you listen

994
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: to a lot of or read a lot of like

995
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: this particularly kind of turn of the last century UFO stuff,

996
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: a lot of it focuses on animals being exanguinated, right,

997
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: cows killed in these like weird fashions. Now he is

998
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 2: talking about a ritual murder. And also the timing doesn't

999
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: work out because they hear the cow run outside and

1000
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: it's been completely skin and excite. But well, I think

1001
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: what's important is it's like you get an idea of

1002
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 2: like this didn't come into his mind unbidden. Right, the

1003
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: term exsanguinated as referred to a cow's corpse had not

1004
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: come into his mind and bidden. That's evidence of like

1005
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 2: the kind of media diety had.

1006
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 6: Right.

1007
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: I mean he was born in nineteen ninety one, that's like, yeah,

1008
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: that's prime growing up with the XPS.

1009
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah. I mean I'm not that much older

1010
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: than him, and that was definitely a big part of

1011
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: my childhood.

1012
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1013
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: But you know what could be a big part of

1014
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 2: your childhood retroactively.

1015
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 3: The products that can make your life better.

1016
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 4: That's right, That's right.

1017
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: Garrison time is a flat circle, and that means that

1018
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: if you buy products that advertise on our show today,

1019
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: anything bad that happened in your childhood can be healed.

1020
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 2: So here's the at.

1021
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 5: Ah.

1022
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: We're back and we're reading from the Second Messiah, King

1023
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 2: of Earth by our friend justin Mohan.

1024
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 3: So it opened with what I would describe probably as

1025
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: it's probably some kind of satanic ritual.

1026
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 4: I'm guessing.

1027
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we get a little more about what his

1028
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: dad thinks here, because the next thing, you know, but

1029
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: his dad starts crying and Buster tries to comfort him,

1030
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: and his dad says, a cow that waits nearly a time, Well,

1031
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,479
Speaker 2: look the spelling's not perfect. A cow that weighs nearly

1032
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 2: a ton gets completely drained of blood, and its bones

1033
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: and organs are taken out perfectly, without one drop of

1034
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 2: blood being spilled. And it all happens right here in

1035
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 2: the middle of this field and less than an hour,

1036
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 2: maybe even in just a couple of minutes. It's the

1037
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 2: fifth cow this has happened to you this season, and Betsy

1038
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: was my best cow. We just won't be able to

1039
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 2: make a profit this year.

1040
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1041
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: He starts to cry, and then he says, don't tell

1042
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 2: your mother I told you this, but you're right to

1043
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 2: leave this place and go far away. There's nothing for

1044
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: you here, and in fact, there's nothing for anyone here.

1045
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 2: So at this point Buster's like, hey, don't say that, dad.

1046
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: You know we've still got a farm, it'll be okay,

1047
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: and his dad says, oh, buster, soon you will learn

1048
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: if you move out west on your own. There is

1049
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 2: an evil in this world which has found its way

1050
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: into this country, to every country. It is an ugly evil.

1051
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 2: Nearly all the family farms in this state and plenty

1052
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: of other states have seen the same trend in the

1053
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: past twenty years or so, a trend none of us

1054
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: have seen before, unexplainable tragedies. Livestock gets mutilated or disappears,

1055
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: crops get infested with bugs and disease, and then all

1056
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the farm is taking a financial loss,

1057
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: the farm shrinks, and eventually the family goes bankrupt or

1058
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: their land is bought out by a big corporation. More

1059
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: farmers have committed suicide in the past decade than any

1060
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: other profession and I can't blame them.

1061
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 4: Now.

1062
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 2: That ties into some very real and very powerful conspiracy

1063
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: theories that this is a lot of this ties into

1064
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 2: like Bill Gates stuff, you know, the idea he has

1065
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 2: bought up a bought a bunch of farmland and among

1066
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 2: conspiratorial sex he has bought all the farmland and China's

1067
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: buying all of it or China and Bill Gates are

1068
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 2: buying it together, and they want to because they want

1069
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: to control the food supply and take out the ability

1070
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: of Americans to feed themselves. Right Like, this is a

1071
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 2: This is something he picked up from right wing media.

1072
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: This is not an invention of his for this book.

1073
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: This is probably something he was either raised to believe

1074
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: or came to believe fairly early in life because of

1075
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: what other people around him were saying. This is common stuff.

1076
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 2: He has put a twist on it, but this is

1077
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: not coming out of nowhere. So after this, he basically

1078
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: tries to talk his dad and like, hey, can't you

1079
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 2: call the FBI or the police, serve you survey them

1080
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 2: to catch whoever's doing this? And his dad says, other

1081
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 2: farmers have tried, they just lose all their money faster,

1082
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 2: and the police and an FBI have investigated, But how

1083
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 2: could they stop something like this from happening out of nowhere.

1084
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: I've sold more than half the acres of the Moon

1085
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 2: family farm over the past three years alone, and we

1086
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 2: can still barely stay afloat. There's no fighting it. It's

1087
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: too secretive, it's too consptantant, it's too well orchestrated. It's

1088
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 2: just too evil. But why is this happening, Why is

1089
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: the government letting America's farms get unfairly taken over? Well,

1090
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: as my father once told me, if you want to

1091
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: take over a country, you have to gain control of

1092
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: their food supply. Remember, my father was an immigrant from

1093
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: Germany and he fled the Nazis with your grandmother, who

1094
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: was a Jew, to come to America. He used to

1095
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: always say, there are the Germans, there are the Russians,

1096
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 2: and then there are the Germans from Russia, and they

1097
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,240
Speaker 2: all came to America for the same reason land.

1098
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 3: And this is that is Justin's family history, which is

1099
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 3: also yeah, why some Nazis on telegram did not like him.

1100
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very much not a Nazi. And at the

1101
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 2: same time there's elements of like what he's saying here

1102
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: that like, yeah, the Germans from Russia that moved here

1103
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 2: very much John Birch, stuff that like a fifth column

1104
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: of communists from Europe have moved here and are trying

1105
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,439
Speaker 2: to change this country. So the conversation ends, he goes

1106
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: to sleep. He wakes up the next morning to like

1107
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 2: leave his family forever to start a new life out west,

1108
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 2: and he starts by going out to the farm, taking

1109
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: out his pipe and his last bit of marijuana, a

1110
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: few green buds that he says to himself, perfectly calculated,

1111
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: and then he smokes his last bowl of marijuana, which

1112
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure he did regularly and certainly did not help.

1113
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: His So Justin Mohan did have a medical marijuana card

1114
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: that he had to give up on January twenty ninth

1115
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 3: to go the handgun that he would then later use

1116
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 3: one day later to kill his father.

1117
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1118
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 2: I guess good that he had to give up his

1119
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 2: medical marijuana card first. Yeah, that's keeping people saying yeah, yeah,

1120
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: really stop the problem. So he says goodbye to his

1121
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 2: parents and he gets on the road, right they seem.

1122
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: He actually does not describe his dad as being very

1123
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 2: mean in this He's pretty sympathetic in the book. But interesting, Yeah,

1124
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: which is interesting. But you know, a few years went

1125
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: by between this one and between him killing his father.

1126
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: So why when I brought up earlier that highway rest

1127
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: stops are a major part of this book, that's because

1128
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,479
Speaker 2: of what comes next. So he crosses from Ohio into

1129
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: Indiana and he sees a rest area approaching Hmm, got

1130
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 2: a piss and wouldn't mind a snack, Buster said. He

1131
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: pulls off the highway. He gets into a parking lot,

1132
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: and he describes most of the men and women wore overalls,

1133
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: flannel shirts, and straw hats walking in and out of

1134
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: the building to and from the parking lot. A few

1135
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 2: people stood off to the sides of the building in

1136
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 2: parking lot. In a grass area, a few men were

1137
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: urinating outside near the trees. An old man was squatting

1138
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: at the tree line taking a shit. I've never been

1139
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 2: to I've been to a lot of rest drops. I've

1140
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: actually not seen that happening at a rest stop. But

1141
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: this is to set up something that's happening at the

1142
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: rest stop, which he learns about when he goes into

1143
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,479
Speaker 2: the bathroom. And it turns out to be a bad

1144
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: decision because as soon as he stands at the urinal,

1145
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: he hears someone behind him saying.

1146
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, that's real nice.

1147
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 2: Just look at that. You want to try it? Another

1148
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: voice whispered. Buster eyed with one eyebrow and raised towards

1149
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 2: the stall on his left four legs stood in the stall,

1150
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: and then he hears people snorting drugs and a bit

1151
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: of white powder falls to the floor. And a guy

1152
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 2: falls down and then is like, oh shit, that's good.

1153
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: How much for an ounce I think they're selling. I'm

1154
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: not sure if it's supposed to be fentanyl or cocaine, Yeah,

1155
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 2: something like that. And then they realize he's listening to

1156
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: them do cocaine or whatever in the rest stop bathroom.

1157
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 2: Hold on a sec, I think someone's in here listening

1158
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: to us. The other person whispered, should we kill him?

1159
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 2: The first person whispered, at which point he fleets.

1160
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 4: The rest stop. Yeah, quick escalation.

1161
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: This is like such a like to take into a

1162
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: humorous degree, but such a like oh what what the

1163
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 2: Fox News viewing set thinks about? Like everything outside of

1164
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 2: their suburbs.

1165
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 3: Justin did not grow up in Ohio. He grew up

1166
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania. I think his family lived about an hour

1167
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: north of Philadelphia, So he grew up in a very

1168
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 3: like suburban area outside of a big city. And that

1169
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 3: all kind of grafts onto this.

1170
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. Now, there's an interesting bit here

1171
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: when he's outside of I guess they decided not to

1172
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: chase him out of the bathroom, but he's still walking

1173
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 2: around the rest stop, and we get a little like

1174
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: gang stalking bit here, people stared at Buster and kept

1175
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 2: glancing at him, and he wondered why he didn't look

1176
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: or dress too differently. And he was barely out of

1177
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: Ohio than he realized everyone was with someone else, nobody

1178
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: else was alone except him, And like, that's a delusion.

1179
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 2: That's the kind of delusion leads to gangstik because number one,

1180
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: I guarantee you there were other alone people that every

1181
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: rest stop he ever went to. But also like people

1182
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: don't pay attention to that sort of thing. That is

1183
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: a voice in his head telling him to hyper focus

1184
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: on this.

1185
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 4: So he gets.

1186
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: Freaked out by this. He describes himself having a panic attack. Right,

1187
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 2: He describes like having a panic attack about the fact

1188
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: that he's alone out here. Now it seemed as though

1189
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 2: more people were glancing at him, even talking about him,

1190
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 2: as if they sensed his feeling of vulnerability emanating from

1191
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: his chest like sharp smelling fresh blood. So he finishes

1192
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: eating and he gets back on the highway and he

1193
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: drives for a bit more until he crosses he passes

1194
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: Indiana and gets into Illinois, and then we have another

1195
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 2: rest stop scene. This is like he spends a lot

1196
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: of time on rest stops and this is I'm going

1197
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: to need you're accult knowledge here, Garrison, so you can

1198
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: let me know if he gets.

1199
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 4: This stuff right.

1200
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 2: So, as he's like walking through the rest stop area,

1201
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 2: he sees that, like there's a poster on the wall

1202
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: that says, this cabin was once an outpost for trading

1203
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: with the Native Americans, used during the Civil War to

1204
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 2: store guns and ammunition. Then he walks to another glass

1205
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: casing on the adjacent wall and he reads the poster

1206
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 2: inside considered haunted by locals after peg and witches lived

1207
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: in the cabin who were later burned at the stake

1208
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: for witchcraft. Abandoned for over one hundred years before being

1209
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: restored as a rest area. So that's to set the scene.

1210
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,479
Speaker 2: And then he goes like gets himself some food or something,

1211
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: and as he's looking outside at the surrounding forest, he

1212
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 2: sees one hundred yards into the forest there are tiki

1213
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: torches lit and it's four oh one pm in the afternoon.

1214
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: What the fuck do they have torches lit in the

1215
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 2: forest for if it's not going to be dark for

1216
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: another two hours, Buster said, So he walks in and

1217
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: he sees a few individuals dressed like vagabonds, dancing slowly

1218
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 2: in circles around the fire, with their arms spread out

1219
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 2: waving in the air. Buster quietly climbed through some bushes

1220
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: to get a quiet closer look. There were two men

1221
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: and a woman, all in dirty torn robes, dancing within

1222
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,959
Speaker 2: a circle of lit candles and tiki torches. One male

1223
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 2: and female danced inside the circle, chanting and murmuring words

1224
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: which Buster couldn't make out. The other male was kneeling

1225
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 2: on the ground inside the circle, carving up pumpkin A

1226
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 2: picture lay in front of him in a bed of flowers. Please,

1227
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: spirits of nature and beyond, except this pumpkin carving and

1228
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: our sacrifices on this day of sam Hayne, in remembrance

1229
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 2: of our deceased loved ones, please ease their passage into

1230
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: the other world. Okay, how's that sounding so far? Garrison?

1231
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 4: Is that real?

1232
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 3: Is this supposed to be around Halloween? Is this supposed

1233
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 3: to be.

1234
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 2: It's unclear, but based on the fact that it day

1235
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 2: ends at six pm?

1236
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 3: Probably yes, Oh yeah, okay, well yeah, I mean, dancing

1237
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 3: around a fire is certainly uh certainly fire rest stop.

1238
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 2: Sure, all right, Well, let's get to the let's get

1239
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 2: to them finishing the ritual. So next a woman screams

1240
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 2: the magic words ayaka, I don't know. Looked it up,

1241
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 2: couldn't find anything.

1242
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 3: That doesn't sound familiar to me either, but yeah, yeah.

1243
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 4: So she screams.

1244
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: And then another female emerged from behind a tree with

1245
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: a donkey by a leash in one hand and a

1246
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: stick carrying a decorated horse's skull on the other. The

1247
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: horse's skull had read ornaments in its eye sockets and

1248
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: a sheet draping over its head. She danced into the

1249
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: center of the circle of candles with the others. The

1250
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 2: man who was kneeling picked up a long curved sword

1251
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 2: from the ground and stood up. Let the sacrifice of

1252
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 2: this ass please the spirits of nature.

1253
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 4: The man yelled, Yeah.

1254
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 3: Well, you know, this is probably a little bit more

1255
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 3: intense than your average wiccan soven ritual.

1256
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 2: But sure, yeah, yeah, I don't know an ass. That's

1257
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 2: a unique sacrifice story. Usually it's like a cow or

1258
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: a chicken or something. But uh huh, I appreciate that.

1259
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: So he raises the sword above his head. No buster

1260
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: yelled heehaw, the donkey whine. The donkey got scared and

1261
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: jerked away, just as the man swung the sword. Slush

1262
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 2: blood spurted upwards and outwards. Ah, the female yelled. The

1263
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: female fell to her knees, and the donkey ran away

1264
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: from the forest. Her seffered arm, still.

1265
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 4: Holding onto the leech.

1266
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: The female raised her bleeding stump. You idiot, you cut

1267
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 2: off my arm, she said, Well, the donkey got scared.

1268
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 2: The man said, Now, what are we going to eat?

1269
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 2: The woman said. The three others glanced at each other,

1270
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 2: then looked at the woman on the ground with one arm. No,

1271
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 2: don't even think about it, she said. The man holding

1272
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 2: the sword raised it high up on his head again. Ah,

1273
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 2: she screamed. Ah, Buster screamed. The woman held her remaining

1274
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: arm up just as the man swung down the sword.

1275
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: The sword cut her hand in half from top to

1276
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: bottom between the middle finger and ring finger, slicing all

1277
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: the way down her forearm. Now that's that's not where

1278
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 2: I expected this passage to go. But it gets better

1279
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 2: because they all realize Buster's there at this point and

1280
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 2: give up on their plans to eat this woman, who

1281
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 2: they have now hacked at twice, and instead she and

1282
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: all of them start charging Buster, and he describes it

1283
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: as they all turned directly towards Buster and began ranning

1284
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: towards him. Even the woman with one arm, which was

1285
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 2: divided in half like a lobster claw, ran towards Buster,

1286
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: her arm flapping in halves as she sprinted towards him.

1287
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 4: That is interesting, writing, Yeah, that's I didn't call that coming.

1288
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 4: I love that. Yeah, she got lobster afied. Yeah, that's

1289
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 4: a very eventful saw one.

1290
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1291
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 4: Huh uh huh. I don't think that actually happened to Buster.

1292
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 4: I don't think that. I don't believe.

1293
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 3: On Justin's move from Pennsylvania to Colorado, he stumbled across

1294
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 3: a pagan ritual where they dismembered a woman and gave

1295
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 3: her a lobster claw.

1296
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: I do suspect that maybe he saw someone walking their

1297
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 2: dog near a rest stop and filled in the.

1298
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 4: Rest That is certainly possible. Speaking of dog shit, you

1299
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 4: know what's not dog shit? These ads? Uh huh, that's right,

1300
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 4: these ads.

1301
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 3: Aren't we sponsored by like the state of Ohio or something?

1302
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: Huh oh, yeah, then in that case we probably should

1303
01:06:47,240 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: just move on. Ah, we are back and having a

1304
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 2: really good time learning some more about our old friend

1305
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 2: Justin moan So Garrison. At this point, he flees from

1306
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 2: the wickanists and their de handed friend, and he gets

1307
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 2: back on the road again. Doesn't seem to call the

1308
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 2: police over this, but I guess they probably were in

1309
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 2: on it too. What could the police have done about

1310
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: people dismembering a woman directly next to a crowded highway

1311
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 2: rest stop? So he decides he gets to Saint Louis

1312
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 2: he needs to find a place to eat. He finds

1313
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: a cheap Italian restaurant and he parallel parked at the curb.

1314
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: Buster walked inside the restaurant into the counter. A small

1315
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 2: man stood beside the counter with a thick Italian accent.

1316
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 4: I make a good bye for you like you find

1317
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 4: on the East coast.

1318
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, West coast. And then he uses a slur

1319
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 2: for gay people stuff. Okay, no, good thank you. Buster

1320
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 2: said you ain't a slur, are you? The man said no, sir,

1321
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 2: Buster said you sure you don't don't want us some

1322
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 2: pineapples on this with no red sauce, all white and

1323
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 2: a cheesy stuffed crust.

1324
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 4: Huh. And then he calls him a slur again no

1325
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 4: very stereotypical, but also big in an Italian chef character.

1326
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 3: Here, you know, I actually I actually ate at an

1327
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 3: Italian restaurant in Saint Louis last year. I was not

1328
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 3: accosted for being gay.

1329
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 4: But that's good. That's good. Did your guy have a

1330
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 4: comedic Italian accent?

1331
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 6: No?

1332
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 4: I think I was being served by a lesbian. Actually, okay,

1333
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 4: well that's probably why. That's probably why. Yeah.

1334
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 2: So buster tells him that he just wants a plain pizza,

1335
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: and the pizza man is willing to serve him, but

1336
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 2: he does use the slur again. At this point, two

1337
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: men barged into the restaurant wearing long black pea coats,

1338
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 2: black pants and shoes and black fedoras.

1339
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 4: Already paid my space. Here we go. This is this

1340
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 4: is what I was signing up for.

1341
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 5: This is rough.

1342
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 4: Stops are fine, this is what I wanted. Yeah, I

1343
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 4: already paid my dues.

1344
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: Boys, the man behind the counter said. The man behind

1345
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 2: the counter spun pizza dough in one hand. Look pet

1346
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 2: tony unpazzo cone pizza, one man said. The other man

1347
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 2: in the fedora laughs. The old fool thinks we're here

1348
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 2: to collect dues. So what the hella do you want

1349
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 2: a fucking pizza for?

1350
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 4: And he just keeps using that he can't he cannot

1351
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 4: mention pizza with that, dropping a slur. I am, I'll

1352
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 4: tell you what.

1353
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 2: I'm not sympathetic towards this Italian man's plight. Both men

1354
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 2: and Fedoras laughed hysterically and turned towards Buster. They lifted

1355
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: their pea coats and revealed Thompson's submachine guns. They can't

1356
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:39,480
Speaker 2: tell me guns.

1357
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 4: Those are so much more expensive than modern crime guns.

1358
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 4: Why are they spending thirty three hundred this? Yeah?

1359
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, where?

1360
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: Oh it's good stuff, like in Chicago, baby, in Saint Les,

1361
01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: of course, Chicago.

1362
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 4: Come on, Lewis, let's so you real here. The men

1363
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 4: never explain why they're killing this guy. But as Buster's eyes,

1364
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 4: yeah yeah, these are the These are the LGBT police.

1365
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 2: So they they open fire. They each empty one hundred

1366
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 2: bullets towards the man behind the counter. Then they turned

1367
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 2: to leave. You saw nothing, kid, nothing got it? The

1368
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: man said, I didn't see shit. Buster said, oh my god,

1369
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: So the bigoted pizza man has been shot full of

1370
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 2: holes and honestly, I'm fine, just leaves and goes back

1371
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 2: to his car.

1372
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 4: He finds, what a fascinating thing to include the story.

1373
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 2: Like it's He's making a lot of choices here. I

1374
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 2: wish I could ask him about some of his process,

1375
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: like why did the pizza man have to be stereotypically Italian?

1376
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 2: Why did the gangsters have to carry a gun that

1377
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 2: has been outdated for nearly one hundred years. Anyway, he

1378
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,480
Speaker 2: goes to a cheap Asian restaurant next, and again parallel

1379
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 2: parks at the curve. He really wants us to know

1380
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 2: that he can parallel park. This is this is something

1381
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 2: he's made a point of several times.

1382
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 4: Interesting.

1383
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 2: Oh no, Garrison, I'm not not excited to try to

1384
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 2: read you. The next line, a small man stood behind

1385
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 2: the counter with a thick Chinese accent.

1386
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 4: Nope, nope, nope, you can do Italian.

1387
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 2: I am not gonna try this. What's important, you know,

1388
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 2: is that he says the same thing as the Italian man.

1389
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 2: I make it racistly, but he says, I'll make you

1390
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: good food like you get on the East coast, no

1391
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: West coast. And then he also uses the same slur.

1392
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 2: And then he asks several more times about it and

1393
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 2: repeatedly calls him a slur. I don't understand why they

1394
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 2: are both the same person, but the same two men

1395
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 2: in long black pea coats fedoras come in and then

1396
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 2: they shoot this guy repeatedly.

1397
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, yeah, that's actually more interesting than this whole

1398
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 3: instant gets repeated, just a slightly different cultural backing.

1399
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 4: It is.

1400
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 2: It is compelling, right, and again the guys like you

1401
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 2: saw nothing, But then they're like, oh, hey, aren't you

1402
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 2: the same kid from the other restaurant where we just

1403
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 2: machine gun demand and Buster, showing admirable bravery here, says, yeah,

1404
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 2: what's going on. I'm just trying to find something to eat,

1405
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 2: and the mafia man very nicely explains, Oi, kid, every

1406
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: restaurant in Saint Louis is owned by the same gang.

1407
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 2: That's why they all say the same script when you

1408
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 2: walk in. But we're taking over their racket and we're

1409
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: taking over their restaurant business in Saint Louis.

1410
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 4: So that's why both the Chinese man and the Italian

1411
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 4: man said the same things. Is they have a script.

1412
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 4: Oh wow, huh yeah, that's compelling. That is compelling. Yeah.

1413
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 2: So so Buster stops at a gas station to get

1414
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,719
Speaker 2: a pre made tuna sand which, which, to be honest,

1415
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 2: seems like the decision to make after after going two

1416
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 2: of these. Yeah, so he winds up driving again through

1417
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 2: the countryside, he approaches Columbia, in between Saint Louis and

1418
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: Kansas City, and he asks a guy if he can

1419
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 2: use a public restroom. Yes, sir, just take this here key,

1420
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 2: witches so you can get in the door. The man

1421
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 2: held a key up towards Buster.

1422
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 4: Hau.

1423
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 2: The man laughed odd way to write laughter, not how

1424
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 2: laughter sounds. Buster walked up to the man and took

1425
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: the key.

1426
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 4: Thanks.

1427
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 2: Buster said, we'll say, mister, you're not from around here?

1428
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 2: Is yeah, I don't recognize you. The man said, no,

1429
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 2: I'm just passing through. Buster said, you're making your way

1430
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 2: to Kansas City. Yes, sir, well you better be careful.

1431
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 2: There are abandons on that bridge that goes over the

1432
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 2: Missouri Rivers sometimes at night. Now that's not true.

1433
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 3: But also I did run into bandits on my okay, okay,

1434
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 3: on my road trip through through Kansas.

1435
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, it's been a couple of years for me.

1436
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 4: Yeah Saint Louis, Yeah, no, it was. It was intense.

1437
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: So Buster's like, that's great. I'm gonna use the bathroom anyway,

1438
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 2: and the man says, I'll be watching you, and so

1439
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 2: Buster says, okay, maybe I won't go, and then the

1440
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 2: man yells, I was gonna suck your dick. So I

1441
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: think we've gotten a good picture of, h what's going

1442
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 2: on with this guy. I'm not really sure why he

1443
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting, like even the absurdity does have kind of

1444
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 2: its roots, and you can see some of these this

1445
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 2: like everybody is programmed, like saying the same script or whatever,

1446
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 2: like they're the Like that's why these interactions seem weird

1447
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 2: to me, is that like, this isn't real people talking

1448
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 2: to me.

1449
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 4: These are people reading from a script. It's all.

1450
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can kind of tie it all back to

1451
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 2: some of the delusional thinking I want cities.

1452
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 4: Are these like lawless zones?

1453
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's bandits on the road and people just

1454
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: getting machine gunned in there in their restaurants.

1455
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1456
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 2: So this book ends. One of the last chapters about

1457
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,680
Speaker 2: this is the FBI and the CIA electrocuting Buster and

1458
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: asking him questions. They're making him specifically, they want him

1459
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 2: to tell them their sins, right.

1460
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 4: Because he's the second Messiah.

1461
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 2: Because he's the second Messiah, so one of the masks,

1462
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 2: and they seem to know everything about his entire life, right,

1463
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 2: which is again kind of ties back to the delusion.

1464
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 2: So one of them is like, what about the time

1465
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 2: you were drunken through a punching a guy who wasn't

1466
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: looking during a group fight in college? Not really sure

1467
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 2: what a group fight in college is, but we can

1468
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: move right past that. What about all the cigarettes you've smoked,

1469
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 2: an acid you've taken, and mushrooms in ecstasy and all

1470
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 2: the other drugs you did. I only did them a

1471
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 2: couple of times. It's not like I'm an addict. Still

1472
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 2: serious damage to the body and putting your life at risk.

1473
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 2: CIA is very concerned about his overall health.

1474
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the CIA famously on the edge about usings like

1475
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 3: at Las.

1476
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1477
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 2: So this goes on for a while, and then the

1478
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: CIA agent leaves and FBI agents put him into a

1479
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 2: black suv and drive him to Andrews Air Force Base.

1480
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 2: The FBI agent's Wheelbuster onto an air Force one and

1481
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 2: air Force one jet also air force is one word,

1482
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 2: and got on board with him. Then the jet took off.

1483
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 2: By the time the jet landed in Moscow, Russia, Buster

1484
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 2: no longer shook constantly, but every once in a while

1485
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 2: he had a full body jerk. The FBI agents wheeled

1486
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 2: him off the plane two Russian FSB agents waited on

1487
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 2: the bottom of the ramp. The FBI agents nodded to

1488
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: the FSB agents, who nodded back. Then THEBI agents got

1489
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 2: back on board the jet. The FSB agents wheeled Buster

1490
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 2: to a black rectangular suv and put him inside. Then

1491
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 2: they drove to the Kremlin. Buster sat in a wheelchair

1492
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 2: in the Krimlin. He was motionless, stared off into the

1493
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 2: distance at nothing, and his jaw hung. Suddenly, his entire

1494
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 2: body jerked, then he went back to being still. The

1495
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 2: President of Russia walked up to Buster. King Moon there

1496
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 2: is an uprising for more food in several parts of

1497
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 2: Southeast Asia. The President of Russia said, gohea. Buster chuckled,

1498
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 2: But do you recommend Zig Global Communist Confederation Due to

1499
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 2: your majesty, the President of Russia said, go ha ha.

1500
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 2: Buster chuckled. Buster stared off into the distance, sill genocide.

1501
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: The President of Russia said, yeah, heh, I love that.

1502
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 2: Buster smiled. The President of Russia turned around to face

1503
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 2: representatives countries all over the world.

1504
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 4: Kills them all.

1505
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 2: Orders directly from the King of Earth, the President of

1506
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 2: Russia said, Fighters, jets and bombers from the United Global

1507
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 2: Force of China, Russia, America, and Europe, flew over Southeast Asia,

1508
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 2: dropping bombs in every country, destroying every main city, burning

1509
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 2: forests and villages, and killing hundreds of millions of people.

1510
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 4: And that's how the book ends.

1511
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 3: So I am fascinated about this middle chunk, yeah, where

1512
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 3: he's align where he goes to Colorado and uncovers a

1513
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 3: satanic conspiracy involving the Democratic Party. But that end bit

1514
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 3: kind of got me thinking about there was all of

1515
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 3: these like like all these like artistic things he was

1516
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 3: doing that was almost preparing himself to do an act

1517
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 3: of violence against a family member. But as much as

1518
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 3: that was the future he was building for himself, you

1519
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 3: also mentioned that he was being transported around by the FBI,

1520
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 3: and like, I wonder how much that was a part

1521
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 3: of the future he was building for himself. Like now

1522
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 3: that he's arrested at an National Guard base, he's now

1523
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:04,679
Speaker 3: being taken from place to place by government officials. He's

1524
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 3: constantly now surrounded by Feds, Like he has he has

1525
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:11,799
Speaker 3: built the reality for himself that now he is actually

1526
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 3: always watched by the government because he's been arrested for

1527
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,679
Speaker 3: doing this things Like he's he has created this fantasy

1528
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 3: world that he can now live in forever. Yeah, whether

1529
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 3: he goes to trial, he's probably gonna I if his

1530
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 3: defense is smart, they'll do some sort of insanity defense.

1531
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 3: He'll be sent to a psychiatric place. Like he's now

1532
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 3: always going to be watched. He is being moved around

1533
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 3: by government agents, like he is living the thing that

1534
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 3: he was writing about. And I find that that that

1535
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 3: second half of like him being caught also a compelling

1536
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 3: like a compelling thing that he was preparing himself for.

1537
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 2: And it it I mean he is he expresses repeatedly

1538
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 2: variations of like because the FBI and the CIA are

1539
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 2: constantly in this book and also like constantly just like

1540
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 2: people coming into his life around him, which again is

1541
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 2: part of this illusion. But also you can see how

1542
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 2: a lot of these common right wing tropes about like

1543
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,600
Speaker 2: everything is infiltrated by the Feds January sixth, with the

1544
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 2: Federal op and stuff, how this is also going to

1545
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 2: feed into the delusions of a guy like this right

1546
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 2: like he's very much this is very much ripped from

1547
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 2: the headlines, and that you can see how things he

1548
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 2: was encountering and like conspiracy culture and popular media grafted

1549
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 2: themselves on to the delusions that he had. Yeah, you

1550
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 2: can also see I turned randomly to a page I

1551
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 2: haven't gotten to yet in this book two sixty and

1552
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: the first line I saw in the middle of the

1553
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:38,240
Speaker 2: page is, let's fucking kill them and then eat them

1554
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 2: a midget and a wheelchair, yelled, holding an RPG.

1555
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:46,759
Speaker 4: So there's quite a lot in this book. All right, Well,

1556
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 4: well then.

1557
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 2: I don't know what the line of good taste and is, Like,

1558
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 2: I think it's I don't think we'll keep going back

1559
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 2: to this. I felt justified and like, well, I want

1560
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: to know what's in this thing once. It seems kind

1561
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 2: of bad to keep doing that, this guy who murdered

1562
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: people's book. But man, there's a lot in here.

1563
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 3: Oh, and there is a use in understanding how these

1564
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:13,799
Speaker 3: people think and under unpacking the sorts of large, large

1565
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 3: swaths of of content that that people that are doing

1566
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 3: these mass acts of violence or very targeted acts of

1567
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 3: violence have been leaving online because it allows you to

1568
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 3: actually get a better look at overarching patterns. Specifically, his

1569
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,759
Speaker 3: songs for Me are very very evident of that. Yeah,

1570
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 3: Like they're very similar to a lot of stuff you

1571
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 3: were you were reading the book, like he has the

1572
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 3: The song about him being tracked on his phone is

1573
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 3: called they Came for Justin Moan. Yeah, they found him

1574
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 3: all alone, they tracked him on his phone. He talks

1575
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 3: about the student loans that he couldn't pay off, the

1576
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 3: payments made him grown, money controlled his life. They wanted

1577
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 3: him to die just like this, all all of just

1578
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 3: all this stuff. They said he was God. They came

1579
01:20:59,240 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 3: for Justin Moan.

1580
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1581
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,799
Speaker 3: Anyway, it's well, it's it's it's not to like laugh

1582
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 3: at him necessarily, No, it's it's about actually understanding this

1583
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 3: and yeah, this is all fucked up. So a part

1584
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 3: of a coping mechanism is kind of laughing at some

1585
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 3: of the more ridiculous elements, but it is it is

1586
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 3: an attempt to actually understand this, this growing trend in

1587
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 3: American culture.

1588
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't just like and this is the

1589
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 2: thing that the right often once it wants to do

1590
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 2: with this, is like, well this is just a mental

1591
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 2: illness problem, and like, no, it's not like you have

1592
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 2: to understand it's American culture. Yeah, what's going into people's heads,

1593
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 2: even if they also have, you know, are are mentally ill.

1594
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 2: What's going into their heads? What they believe about the world,

1595
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 2: influences how they act on those delusions, and the nature

1596
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 2: of those delusions.

1597
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 3: This is what happens to your brain when it entirely

1598
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 3: becomes corrupted by the culture of war like this is.

1599
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 3: This has now taking over his entire method of things.

1600
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 3: This is the only way you can see the world.

1601
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 3: And there's people who are paid to get people to

1602
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:06,560
Speaker 3: be like this like this is.

1603
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 5: This is.

1604
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,799
Speaker 3: People's whole job is to get more and more people

1605
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 3: to only think in these terms. And this is one

1606
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 3: of the results of that of that effort by elements

1607
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 3: of the American right.

1608
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:23,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, it's bad.

1609
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 3: That'll be a good book to explain to a young

1610
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 3: child in fifty years. Why why is this on your bookshelf?

1611
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you. They've just in mode.

1612
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 2: If I ever have a kid, Garrison, this will be

1613
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 2: the first book they rate.

1614
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 4: No, that's that's probably bad idea. Well, let's uh, let's

1615
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:44,719
Speaker 4: be done. Let's let's go away.

1616
01:22:45,320 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 7: Goodbye, Hello, and welcome back to It Could Happen Here,

1617
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 7: your favorite daily podcast about the studied dissolution of society as.

1618
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 5: We know it.

1619
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 7: I'm your guest host, Molly Conger, joined once again by

1620
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 7: our friend Garrison.

1621
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:15,719
Speaker 3: Hello, happy to look at the abyss once again.

1622
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, try not to ruin your day too bad today,

1623
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 7: So Garrison, today I want to talk to you about

1624
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 7: some terrible guys that I know you're already pretty familiar with.

1625
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 7: The Goyam Defense League the GDL. The GDL, there's sort

1626
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 7: of a loose network of neo Nazi trolls, best known

1627
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 7: for their anti Semitic flyers, headed up by a failed

1628
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 7: rapper named John Minnedeo who calls himself Handsome Truth.

1629
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 8: Handsome Handsome Truth.

1630
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 7: So there's this sort of core cast of characters in

1631
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 7: Minnedeo's orbit that shows up in person, mostly in Florida

1632
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 7: and Georgia, but the group's real strength is online. They

1633
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 7: have this decentralized network of thousands of followers nationwide who

1634
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 7: are encouraged to download and print the anti Semitic flyers

1635
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 7: and distribute them in their areas. It's not a new model,

1636
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,000
Speaker 7: right like the Klan has been doing this for decades,

1637
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 7: and National Alliance was big into this in the early aughts.

1638
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 8: But that's what they do.

1639
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 7: Right in the news every few weeks, you know, your

1640
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 7: local news wherever it is that you live, you know

1641
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 7: somebody left these racist flyers on everyone's front lawn, and

1642
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 7: I know you and I have talked about doing an

1643
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 7: episode in the future about the sort of counter productive

1644
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 7: responses to these in person demonstrations, the flying and the

1645
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 7: banner drops. There's a new law in Florida and a

1646
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,719
Speaker 7: proposed law in Georgia that are sort of allegedly aimed

1647
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 7: at countering anti Semitism, but are going to have some

1648
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 7: sort of counterproductive knock on effects. And I hope we

1649
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,719
Speaker 7: can get to that at a later date. But today

1650
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 7: I want to talk to you about a little project

1651
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 7: some GDL members have going on the side called the

1652
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 7: City Council Death Squad?

1653
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 3: Are they going you around in Gilding City Council members,

1654
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 3: because that's kind of what it sounds like.

1655
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,760
Speaker 8: It does sound like, that's kind of that's the energy here.

1656
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 7: They haven't done that yet, yes, But Garrison, how would

1657
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 7: you feel if I told you a former Juggalo calling

1658
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 7: himself Scottie big Balls trying to trying to destroy the

1659
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 7: thing I love most, which is civic engagement in municipal government.

1660
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 3: I have such complicated feelings of Juggalos.

1661
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 7: Oh God, No, I want to be clear I'm not

1662
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 7: slandering the Juggalo community here, right, Like mister big Ball's

1663
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 7: got his hatchetman tattoo covered up with a big snake

1664
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 7: holding a gun a couple of years ago, So he's

1665
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 7: no longer god that there's a cool name for their community.

1666
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:29,680
Speaker 7: He's no longer a part of the Juggalo community. I

1667
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 7: don't think the Juggalos would buy this kind of behavior.

1668
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,679
Speaker 3: Generally, not. They are kind of semi cool.

1669
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 7: No, I'm off for chicken hunting, I don't. I don't

1670
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 7: think they abide No, I by just by a happenstance,

1671
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 7: you know. Icps not my cup of tea. No, no, shade,

1672
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 7: it's not my cup of tea. But I did see

1673
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 7: them perform at the Lincoln Memorial a couple of years ago,

1674
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:55,480
Speaker 7: and it was the most polite crowd I've ever experienced

1675
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 7: at a live music event.

1676
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 8: So hats off to the Juggalos.

1677
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1678
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 7: Now, if you're a city council meeting enthusiast like myself,

1679
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,759
Speaker 7: you may already be aware of the rash of racist

1680
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 7: zoom bombings disrupting meetings around the country over the last

1681
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 7: nine months or so. Remote participation in meetings became nearly

1682
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 7: ubiquitous during the pandemic, and the opportunity to make a

1683
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 7: public comment without having to devote an entire evening to

1684
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:21,240
Speaker 7: sitting in an uncomfortable chair at city hall has made

1685
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 7: civic engagement more accessible for all kinds of people right,

1686
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:28,560
Speaker 7: not just because of contagion, but remote participation benefits everybody,

1687
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 7: like parents who are managing a bedtime routine by the

1688
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 7: time the public hearing opens at eight PM, or sure

1689
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 7: don't work in nine to five, or people without reliable transportation.

1690
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 7: So it's been a boon for local democracy, but it's

1691
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 7: also created a unique opportunity for people who want to

1692
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 7: ruin that. So last year, Scotty big Balls Mister big Balls,

1693
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 7: the online pseudonym for a self described not see named

1694
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 7: Harley Ray Petero Junior, started a group he calls the

1695
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,960
Speaker 7: City Council Death Squad organizes online to find government meetings,

1696
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 7: mainly city and county council meetings all over the country

1697
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 7: that allow public comment by a zoom, and then it

1698
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 7: coordinates those members to sign up for speaking slots, crowding

1699
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 7: out actual community members who are trying to speak on

1700
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 7: you know, like actual matters of local concern, and when

1701
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 7: the members of the group get through, the calls follow

1702
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:22,479
Speaker 7: a couple of predictable paths. Sometimes the caller just starts

1703
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 7: screaming slurs.

1704
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 4: Right.

1705
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 7: It's just as soon as they connect, it's just screaming

1706
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 7: the N word over and over and over and over

1707
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 7: and over again until someone can hit the button to

1708
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 7: cut it off. Sometimes they do what they call the

1709
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,400
Speaker 7: slow roll, where they start off trying to sound like

1710
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 7: a real caller. You know, they'll say, like, you know,

1711
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 7: I have concerns about zoning in my neighborhood, or I

1712
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 7: you know, I think we should pay the police more,

1713
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 7: and then it veers abruptly into some kind of bizarre

1714
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:48,599
Speaker 7: antisemitic conspiracy theory about crime or nine to eleven or

1715
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 7: advocating for public lynchings.

1716
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, where they it's like, spend a

1717
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 3: few minutes eating up the city council time, and then

1718
01:27:56,880 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 3: to curtail it with some unh hinge ramble.

1719
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 7: Right, and then yell slurs yes, yes, yes. And another

1720
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,639
Speaker 7: favorite of the group is a call format where they

1721
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:11,040
Speaker 7: pretend to be gay or Jewish themselves and then ascribe

1722
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 7: to themselves various traits associated with bigoted stereotypes of the girl.

1723
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah yeah.

1724
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 7: John Benedeo has participated a few times himself, and he

1725
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,759
Speaker 7: loves this one. He pretends to be a gay Jewish

1726
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 7: person named Tammy and then says some pretty outrageous things. Sure,

1727
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 7: I bet the callers give themselves inside joke names like

1728
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 7: Rudy Hess or Sadie n word, which, when you say

1729
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 7: it out loud, sounds like say the N word, So

1730
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 7: it's like a Seymour Butts kind of thing. It's like

1731
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 7: Bart calling most tavern except it's Nazis.

1732
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,719
Speaker 3: Wow, very very clever, on the cutting edge of comedy.

1733
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1734
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,759
Speaker 7: Or they'll name themselves after a mass shooter, like Dylan

1735
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 7: Rue for Andraspravic or you know, sometimes it's like a

1736
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 7: deep cut, like a more obscure killer whose name might

1737
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 7: not arouse suspicion right off the bat, like Jim Adkisson,

1738
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 7: a man who shot eight people at a Unitarian church

1739
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 7: in Knoxville in two thousand and eight during a children's

1740
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 7: production of the musical Annie because he was angry about

1741
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 7: the church's liberal teachings. So you know, those good jokes.

1742
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is all like kind of like old like

1743
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 3: old school kind of chan humor. It's it's not even

1744
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,839
Speaker 3: that popular anymore because it's kind of just out of vogue.

1745
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 3: You're kind of you're kind of outing yourself as like

1746
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:29,599
Speaker 3: a bit of like a not an actual boomer, but

1747
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 3: like it's become a boomer fied this type of humor.

1748
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 3: It's not really this sort of thing that younger, more

1749
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 3: hip neo Nazis are into. They they have, they have,

1750
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 3: they have moved on, they have other other horizons of

1751
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 3: bad jokes.

1752
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 7: So ruining everybody's good time by shouting a racial slur

1753
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 7: is hardly an innovation. But this particular operation has a

1754
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 7: discernible origin point. In May of twenty twenty three, Potero,

1755
01:29:57,160 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 7: that's mister big Balls, if you've forgotten already and friends

1756
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 7: showed up in person to a Sacramento City council meeting

1757
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 7: to show their support for Ryan Massano. If you're from

1758
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:09,719
Speaker 7: the Sacramento area, you probably know him. Masano, a former

1759
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 7: Proud Boy with several failed runs for office under his belt,

1760
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:15,639
Speaker 7: already had a long history of being disruptive in public meetings.

1761
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:18,679
Speaker 7: In twenty eighteen, he's removed from chambers during a Valejo

1762
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 7: City Council meeting after saying the city was quote infested

1763
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 7: with homosexuals, and refusing to be called to order by

1764
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 7: the mayor the meeting of the same body in twenty

1765
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 7: twenty two, he was picked up and carried out after

1766
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 7: refusing to end his remarks at the end of his time.

1767
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 7: So in twenty twenty three, he's attending every meeting of

1768
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,519
Speaker 7: the Sacramento City Council. This has been going on for

1769
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,240
Speaker 7: almost two months. He shows up, he gets up, he

1770
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 7: makes his homophobic, racist, and antisemitic remarks, but he's keeping

1771
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 7: with the rules of the meeting and they're letting him

1772
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:47,879
Speaker 7: make his statements.

1773
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 8: But people aren't happy about it. So activists are shooting

1774
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 8: to show up to the meetings.

1775
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 7: People are showing up with banners, people are booing him,

1776
01:30:56,200 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 7: people are showing up to counter this, and so he

1777
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,559
Speaker 7: puts out a call for backup. So at this at

1778
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,520
Speaker 7: this point that Petero shows up with two masked associates

1779
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 7: and a man named Jeffrey Perene, who, like Massano, was

1780
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 7: a proud boy with a failed school board run to

1781
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 7: his name at that time. In twenty twenty three, Parene

1782
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 7: had recently been arrested outside the home of a youth

1783
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 7: pastor after publicly calling for others to join him in

1784
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 7: going to the pastor's home during a school board meeting

1785
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 7: that had to be adjourned because of Parene's disruptive behavior.

1786
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 7: So we're seeing a pattern emerging here, right, Like at

1787
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 7: this point, we've got two proud boys who keep getting

1788
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 7: kicked out of meetings and failing to run for school board.

1789
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:35,679
Speaker 7: These are people who are seeing the value in kicking

1790
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 7: up some kind of disturbance at a meeting.

1791
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was like during a time where school

1792
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 3: board meeting disruptions were very popular. There was a lot

1793
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,679
Speaker 3: of like far right influencers trying to convince their followers

1794
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 3: to run for school boards. This was kind of a

1795
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:55,120
Speaker 3: very particular cultural moment in like twenty twenty two to

1796
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three.

1797
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,839
Speaker 7: So they show up to this meeting to support Massano.

1798
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 7: Doesn't go well. One of the guys throws a Hitler salute.

1799
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 7: People react angrily, there's a bit of a scuffle, It devolves,

1800
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 7: and the council ends up going into recess and clearing

1801
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 7: the chambers entirely. Everybody has to leave. You just can't

1802
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 7: be in here too much yelling. Everybody's mad nobody gets arrested,

1803
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 7: but everybody has to leave, and the council ended up

1804
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 7: continuing the meeting without the public's presence. So I think

1805
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 7: there was a hearing that night on an ordinance involving

1806
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 7: homelessness that people had showed up to speak on and

1807
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 7: they weren't allowed to do that. Now council continues their business,

1808
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:32,799
Speaker 7: but nobody can be there. And Patera's alliance with Masano

1809
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:36,560
Speaker 7: didn't last. They actually butted heads almost immediately over optics.

1810
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:39,680
Speaker 7: Massano preferred to make his long winded speeches that at

1811
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 7: least in his mind, were more palatable to the listener

1812
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,200
Speaker 7: and might more effectively spread his message and potentially red

1813
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 7: pill the listeners. Who's actually angry that Potero's troll forward

1814
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 7: tactic of just shouting slurs and obscenities was actually resulting

1815
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 7: in avenues for public comment being closed off. In September

1816
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 7: of twenty twenty three, he wrote, either out of ignorance

1817
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 7: or deliberate sabotage, the GDL has no idea what they're doing.

1818
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 7: So he was mad right because he was doing this

1819
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 7: thing where every week he was showing up Megan's comment

1820
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:10,280
Speaker 7: and because of the different strategy of disruption that was

1821
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 7: getting harder for him. Masano, for his part, continues his

1822
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 7: one man battle against the Sacramento City Council. He's still

1823
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 7: doing that. Oh, okay, He's a lone wolf out there

1824
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 7: in Sacramento. But Petero saw the potential and trolling on

1825
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 7: a larger scale, okay, almost immediately, he branched out. Over

1826
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 7: the next few months, it developed into an organized trolling machine,

1827
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 7: targeting meetings across the country, covering at least seventeen states,

1828
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 7: from Alaska to Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, Georgia, Virginia. They're all

1829
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:45,640
Speaker 7: over the place, often hitting the same city repeatedly, and

1830
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 7: in some cases showing up in person with flyers or banners,

1831
01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 7: either before or after the zoom bombing. After targeting meetings

1832
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 7: in the city of Walnut Creek, California, the group hung

1833
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 7: a racist banner in the area. Councilor Kevin Wilk commented

1834
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 7: on the banner in the press, and the following week

1835
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 7: the meeting was hit again, with members specifically addressing Wilk,

1836
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 7: the locality's first Jewish city councilor, asking him how he

1837
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 7: liked it. In a later stream, Potero laughed about that

1838
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 7: personalized follow up saying that pissed him off, so I

1839
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 7: had to.

1840
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 8: Rub it in.

1841
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 7: After targeting the city of Wooster, Massachusetts, the group didn't

1842
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 7: just flyer. They mailed homophobic materials to the homes of

1843
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 7: several councilors, including two nuen, the state's first openly non

1844
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 7: binary elected official. And it isn't even just regular city

1845
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:35,360
Speaker 7: council meetings. Some of the targeted meetings are incredibly boring

1846
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 7: governmental bodies like the Morristown, New Jersey Board.

1847
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:39,679
Speaker 8: Of Zoning Appeals.

1848
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:40,639
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

1849
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,519
Speaker 7: When PETERO posted a clip of their racist calls into

1850
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 7: that meeting, a group member posted the board chairs home

1851
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:48,560
Speaker 7: address and the replies.

1852
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 8: They've also and this doesn't even fit the pattern. I

1853
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:54,639
Speaker 8: think they just got the bug.

1854
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 7: But they've posted several composition videos of the group disrupting

1855
01:34:58,080 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 7: AA meetings.

1856
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:03,759
Speaker 4: All right, that's interesting.

1857
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 9: I think that.

1858
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 7: I think they just got into the idea of making

1859
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,759
Speaker 7: praying phone calls. So they target addiction support groups, often

1860
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 7: geared towards members of the LGBTQ community.

1861
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 4: So okay, all right, yeah, just.

1862
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:18,600
Speaker 7: Doing like homophobic attacks on people who are trying to

1863
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 7: get sober.

1864
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:20,320
Speaker 4: Huh.

1865
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:23,639
Speaker 3: They're just like finding any any meeting they can and

1866
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 3: just spamming this thing.

1867
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 8: I don't know that they have other hobbies.

1868
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,519
Speaker 3: Yes, this seems like a lot of time between keeping

1869
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 3: up on zoning board meetings and whatever local AA call

1870
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 3: in there is. It seems seems to be a bit

1871
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 3: uh childish and time consuming, right.

1872
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 7: I mean this is it takes a lot of time,

1873
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 7: and Potero is pretty clear about that. You know, he

1874
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 7: runs these online spaces where he's organizing. He's you know,

1875
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 7: making lists of meetings that they should check out. He's

1876
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:52,599
Speaker 7: complaining about how, you know, sometimes you have to wait

1877
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 7: for hours while they're just doing like regular government stuff.

1878
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:56,840
Speaker 7: You have to just like wait for it to be

1879
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 7: your turnity all the N word. It's time consuming.

1880
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:01,599
Speaker 4: Do you know what isn't time consuming?

1881
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:07,040
Speaker 7: Spending your harder in cash on the products and services

1882
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 7: that support this show.

1883
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:08,559
Speaker 4: That's right.

1884
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 3: We make it fast, easy and reliable by listening to

1885
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 3: these products and services. Okay, we are back talking about

1886
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 3: the Goyam Defense League, the GDL. So we were just

1887
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 3: discussing how they were spending a lot of time disrupting

1888
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 3: a lot of meetings with their little call in campaign.

1889
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,360
Speaker 7: Right, and it's tempting to dismiss this behavior as Oh,

1890
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 7: it's just trolling, right, they're just trolls.

1891
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 8: Sure, it's like this is so juvenile.

1892
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:46,639
Speaker 4: How bad can it be? It's just people calling in, right, But.

1893
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 7: This has real world consequences, and they know that. They

1894
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 7: revel in the reactions to their behavior. They're fully aware

1895
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 7: of and celebrate the destruction that it leaves in its wake.

1896
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 7: When the city of Portland suspended virtual public comment, commenters

1897
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 7: in the group called it a big effing win when

1898
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:04,400
Speaker 7: there's other media coverage of cities who have limited or

1899
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 7: even ended public comment altogether. The headlines are posted triumphantly

1900
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 7: in the group, often captured only with loll comments like

1901
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 7: the calls will continue until the Jews leave and shut

1902
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 7: it down for the win and never let them regroup

1903
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 7: arrest no comfort given literal the replies to posts about

1904
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:22,880
Speaker 7: city after city ceding ground to this harassment.

1905
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 3: So it's not just causing little inconveniences, it is actually

1906
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 3: shutting down city's ability to hold public comment and for

1907
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 3: the public to actually speak on issues that are affecting

1908
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 3: them and their city.

1909
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 6: Right.

1910
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:40,479
Speaker 7: So, there have been meetings that, you know, when this occurs,

1911
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:43,680
Speaker 7: the meeting itself, that particular meeting just ends everyone just

1912
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,759
Speaker 7: leaves because they can't continue, or you know, the meeting

1913
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 7: does continue, but they stop taking public comment, or they

1914
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 7: change their policies and procedures to limit public comment moving forward.

1915
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 7: So this is having real effects that are you know,

1916
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 7: living on in these cities even after they moved on.

1917
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 7: Group members suggest using burner phones and fake number generators

1918
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,120
Speaker 7: to avoid being caught or blocked. Potero has written online

1919
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 7: that he's been quote banned on multiple devices, but I

1920
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:14,719
Speaker 7: have some tactics to prevent them from stopping me. Patero

1921
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:17,160
Speaker 7: noted on a recent stream that the ADL's estimate of

1922
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 7: over one hundred and thirty disruptions is short changing them,

1923
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 7: insisting they've done at least three times that many, sometimes

1924
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 7: hitting dozens of meetings per week, and they're not just

1925
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:29,599
Speaker 7: doing it right. It's not just the act of doing

1926
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:32,360
Speaker 7: it that is the thrill to them. They then cut

1927
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 7: the clips and then post them online for everyone to enjoy.

1928
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,599
Speaker 7: They're cutting promos and making highlight reels of their favorite moments.

1929
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 7: There are compilations grouped by genre of hate right. There's

1930
01:38:42,240 --> 01:38:44,720
Speaker 7: videos combining all the best moments of homophobia, all the

1931
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 7: best moments of anti semitism. There are these promo videos

1932
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:51,040
Speaker 7: set to that sort of ugly electronic fash wave music

1933
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 7: that they all love so much?

1934
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1935
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:55,519
Speaker 7: The promo videos have titles like this is our meeting

1936
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:57,280
Speaker 7: now or We're jacking your shit.

1937
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 3: So these are being shared on like bitchu and Odyssey

1938
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 3: and Telegram.

1939
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:04,640
Speaker 7: I'm guessing yeah, they're they're you know, GDL, they're on

1940
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:07,880
Speaker 7: They're on every platform that's opened to people like them, right, okay,

1941
01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 7: and following that GDL model, right, they're they're posting these

1942
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 7: these videos and getting money. They're accepting donations to continue

1943
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:21,840
Speaker 7: doing this. And then on the anniversary of Kristall Knocked,

1944
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 7: they targeted a planning commission in the Crescent City, California,

1945
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 7: entitled the video CCDs goes Chrystall Knocked on Crescent City. Right,

1946
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 7: So it's it's just a joke, right, They're not really

1947
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 7: doing Christall Knocked, but they're using the language of this

1948
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:38,480
Speaker 7: sort of genocidal violence.

1949
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,720
Speaker 3: And it's like monetized. They're like making money off of it.

1950
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:46,679
Speaker 7: They are making those donos, as they say it. After

1951
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:50,439
Speaker 7: a recent ADL article about the operation, Patero posted, fuck

1952
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:53,920
Speaker 7: the ADL, We'll give those caselers something to covetch about

1953
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,920
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty four, and his wife Haley reposted that,

1954
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:58,519
Speaker 7: adding you think he's playing.

1955
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 8: He lives for this. Yes, they don't work, They really

1956
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 8: do live for this.

1957
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 3: It does sound like this is like the most important

1958
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 3: thing happening in their life, which is one quite sad.

1959
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:11,840
Speaker 3: That also shows that they have a lot of time

1960
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:13,800
Speaker 3: to dedicate to pulling off stuff like this.

1961
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:16,320
Speaker 8: Time that they should be dedicating to parenting.

1962
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 3: Honestly, well, I don't know if you want them around

1963
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:23,880
Speaker 3: their kids. Honestly, the more time they spend away from

1964
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:25,559
Speaker 3: their children is probably better.

1965
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 8: God damn.

1966
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:30,759
Speaker 7: During the zoo bombing in October, an official in Saucelito, California,

1967
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:33,879
Speaker 7: voice support for just cutting off the calls over objections

1968
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 7: from other members of council that this could get them sued,

1969
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:39,639
Speaker 7: saying he would quote take the lawsuit if these people

1970
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 7: can even get organized enough to sue us. And while

1971
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 7: the group has made no progress on actually filing any

1972
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,720
Speaker 7: legal action there or anywhere else, they haven't forgotten it.

1973
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 7: Just last week the group expressed an interest in seeking

1974
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:54,639
Speaker 7: some kind of retribution for that comment, saying they may

1975
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 7: need a little visit, and the group is raising money

1976
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:00,760
Speaker 7: to start traveling to meetings in person. Fundraiser on the

1977
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:03,320
Speaker 7: platform of choice for right wing extremists, give Send Go,

1978
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:06,160
Speaker 7: has already raised one thousand dollars in donations to fund

1979
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 7: travel and lodging for the group members to travel to

1980
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 7: city council meetings for in person disruptions. On their weekly

1981
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 7: live streams, Viewers can donate directly in the stream. On

1982
01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:17,880
Speaker 7: the stream, Potero thanks viewers for donations, often in the

1983
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 7: amount of fourteen dollars and eighty eight cents.

1984
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:21,559
Speaker 4: Hey yeah, that makes sense.

1985
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:22,439
Speaker 8: Oh yeah.

1986
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:25,559
Speaker 7: They they live for the memes, reminding them that every

1987
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 7: donation goes directly towards funding their IRL activism, getting them

1988
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:32,360
Speaker 7: offline and inter real life traveling around the country to

1989
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 7: engage in racial harassment in person. He also says the

1990
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 7: donations fund a side project called postcard Waffen.

1991
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 4: The nota SEENI way wait wait wait.

1992
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait say that one bird time, just

1993
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 3: a little slower postcard waffen.

1994
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 4: They love to add postcard waffen.

1995
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,640
Speaker 8: They love to add waffen to things. Right, that's just

1996
01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:53,799
Speaker 8: the German word for weapon.

1997
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:57,000
Speaker 7: So this this is weaponized mailings, and this is the

1998
01:41:57,080 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 7: nickname they've given to the work of mailing hateful materials

1999
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 7: directly to the homes of the elected officials who preside

2000
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 7: over the meetings they disrupt. This seems like a sort

2001
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:09,640
Speaker 7: of targeted harassment kind of campaign.

2002
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 3: Sure, target harassment, intimidation. There's some with the other like mentions.

2003
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 3: You know, it's like veiled threats. These types of neo

2004
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:21,200
Speaker 3: Nazis are not averse to actually doing violence on people.

2005
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:25,759
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's there's like a a pleasant threat implied

2006
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:29,560
Speaker 3: with these with this, with this sort of rhetoric and activity.

2007
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 7: And because the decentralized nature of the GDL, and I

2008
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:33,439
Speaker 7: think this is something we can talk about in a

2009
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:35,759
Speaker 7: later episode about kind of what they're up to these days.

2010
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:40,400
Speaker 7: Is they don't have communication with or control over all

2011
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:43,519
Speaker 7: of the people who are consuming this content, So they

2012
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:46,280
Speaker 7: may not plan to follow up with these people in

2013
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 7: a manner that would be criminal, but they're encouraging people

2014
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:54,160
Speaker 7: to think that that's an option and that sure has ramifications. Sure,

2015
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 7: So this isn't just annoying prank calls. It's an organized

2016
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:01,760
Speaker 7: effort to ruin local democracy, to make meetings unproductive and unbearable,

2017
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:05,080
Speaker 7: to intimidate and humiliate local government employees, and elected officials

2018
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 7: to make your city council chambers and intimidating an uncomfortable

2019
01:43:08,240 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 7: place for you, closing off that avenue for you to

2020
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 7: address and engage with your local government, and to take

2021
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,839
Speaker 7: away options for actually engaging with local government by forcing

2022
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:18,559
Speaker 7: cities to limit public comment. And we can't seed that

2023
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 7: ground to them.

2024
01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:22,720
Speaker 3: Ah man, that is I mean, I don't know. There's

2025
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:26,640
Speaker 3: just been so many instances with city council meetings and

2026
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:30,599
Speaker 3: various other kind of these big public forms, especially school

2027
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:33,599
Speaker 3: board meetings, where like they are like discussing extremely important

2028
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 3: stuff around like trans people and forming policies that impact people.

2029
01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 3: And I know a lot of people do actually end

2030
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:44,800
Speaker 3: up going out to these and talking about their experiences

2031
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:48,519
Speaker 3: and why proposed laws or ordinances would be so harmful,

2032
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 3: and just removing that option, whether or not you believe

2033
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:55,720
Speaker 3: in like the electoral process TM, removing that option from

2034
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 3: people to actually speak on their own experiences does have

2035
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:01,320
Speaker 3: like real consequences.

2036
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 7: Even if even if you're not a big believer in

2037
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:06,519
Speaker 7: it being a meaningful political action to engage with your

2038
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 7: local government. I think we can all agree that it's

2039
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 7: not okay for Nazis to make it unsafe for anyone

2040
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:16,400
Speaker 7: to do that. Yeah, you know who won't seed ground

2041
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 7: to the nazis trying to take over your local school board.

2042
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 3: The products and services sets, the forth this podcast, I hope.

2043
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:28,160
Speaker 3: So it depends capitalism is u is quite strong.

2044
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 4: But we'll see how this develops.

2045
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:42,920
Speaker 3: Okay, we are back. So this is this is kind

2046
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 3: of depressing, Molly.

2047
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 4: What what? Uh huh ah?

2048
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:49,160
Speaker 8: What is to be done?

2049
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:50,000
Speaker 4: What is to be done?

2050
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:50,560
Speaker 8: Garrisoned?

2051
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,559
Speaker 7: Yes, So unfortunately a lot of the obvious solutions here

2052
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:54,320
Speaker 7: are bad ones.

2053
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 4: Right.

2054
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,479
Speaker 7: The response that a lot of cities have had is that, well,

2055
01:44:57,479 --> 01:45:00,000
Speaker 7: they're just going to eliminate remote public comment altogether.

2056
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:02,519
Speaker 8: You just can't participate remotely anymore, which.

2057
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,519
Speaker 3: Hurts people who are like disabled, hurts people who have

2058
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 3: tough things with scheduling, parents, people who work at certain hours.

2059
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, yeah, like most people can't spend six hours

2060
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:13,920
Speaker 7: sitting at city hall on a Monday night.

2061
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 8: Most people can't.

2062
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 7: And so having remote participation was really it opened up

2063
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:22,000
Speaker 7: local democracy to people with all kinds of life situations, right,

2064
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:24,520
Speaker 7: And that's what happened here in my own city of Charlottesville.

2065
01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:28,960
Speaker 7: CCDs targeted us last October, and in response, the mayor

2066
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 7: eliminated remote participation in all meetings. We didn't get to

2067
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,280
Speaker 7: revisit that. That's just how it works now. So they've

2068
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,040
Speaker 7: moved on. But now my entire city of over fifty

2069
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,920
Speaker 7: thousand people lives with the consequences of that action, and

2070
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 7: we're left with a less accessible local democracy. They'd rather

2071
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,400
Speaker 7: prevent anyone from calling in than have to deal with

2072
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:50,200
Speaker 7: deciding whether they can do anything about it when someone

2073
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:53,840
Speaker 7: abuses that process. And there's some really basic steps that

2074
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:55,679
Speaker 7: cities can take right off the bat, like without even

2075
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 7: overthinking it or getting into the legal complications of the

2076
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:01,200
Speaker 7: First Amendment. Cities like Lin would Walkhington responded to their

2077
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 7: CCDA zoom bombing by adding a few basic layers of

2078
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:07,760
Speaker 7: security to their virtual meetings, like requiring commenters to sign

2079
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 7: up the day before. So this group is organized in

2080
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:14,360
Speaker 7: a private telegram chat, and so like one person gets

2081
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:16,479
Speaker 7: into a meeting and just drops the link into the chat,

2082
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:18,760
Speaker 7: and so everyone just clicks that link. But if you

2083
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:20,679
Speaker 7: make it so everyone has to have a unique sign

2084
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 7: in link that they signed up for with a real

2085
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 7: email address the day prior, that makes a little bit

2086
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 7: harder to.

2087
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 8: Coordinate a dog pile.

2088
01:46:27,880 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 7: Sure you know it isn't hard to make a fake

2089
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 7: or temporary email address to sign up to get the link.

2090
01:46:32,880 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 7: But if sometimes just adding one extra step is discouraging

2091
01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:39,519
Speaker 7: enough that they'll pick somebody else this week. But this

2092
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:42,120
Speaker 7: behavior is escalating, right, and making it a little bit

2093
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:44,200
Speaker 7: harder to get into the zoom isn't going to solve

2094
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:44,759
Speaker 7: the problem.

2095
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:46,120
Speaker 8: It's going to keep happening.

2096
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:48,360
Speaker 7: And you can only make a public meeting so secure

2097
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:53,520
Speaker 7: without actually locking out the public. Elected officials are understandably

2098
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 7: concerned about the legal ramifications of dealing with these kinds

2099
01:46:56,600 --> 01:47:00,840
Speaker 7: of calls. With some exceptions, they can't prevent someone from

2100
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:04,320
Speaker 7: speaking based only on the content of the speech. I

2101
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:06,800
Speaker 7: actually found a two thousand and six letter. I guess

2102
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:08,760
Speaker 7: in two thousand and six, the LA City Council asked

2103
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:11,719
Speaker 7: their city attorney. I need to do a little research

2104
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 7: on what was going on in two thousand and six

2105
01:47:13,000 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 7: in La. But the LA City Council asked the city attorney,

2106
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:18,240
Speaker 7: can we make a rule that people can't say racial

2107
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:19,040
Speaker 7: slurs in here?

2108
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 3: Which seems like an okay rule, like I don't know.

2109
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:27,719
Speaker 7: The answer was no, Legally, you can't limit speech based

2110
01:47:27,720 --> 01:47:30,679
Speaker 7: on its content, right, because these are public forums put

2111
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 7: on by the government. I mean, it's what's called a

2112
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:35,639
Speaker 7: designated public forum, but we don't. They can't limit speech

2113
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 7: based on its content, right, But what they can do

2114
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:43,200
Speaker 7: is have rules of decorum. Their city attorney pulled some

2115
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:47,439
Speaker 7: language directly from a Ninth Circuit Court opinion that's in California,

2116
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,680
Speaker 7: So it's a federal Court of appeals that covers that

2117
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 7: part of California. White versus City of Norwalk, and that

2118
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:56,679
Speaker 7: decision upheld a city ordinance that authorized the legislative body

2119
01:47:57,000 --> 01:48:02,000
Speaker 7: to remove individuals who uttered quote personal, impertinent, slanderous, or

2120
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:07,639
Speaker 7: profane remarks if the remarks disrupted, disturbed, or otherwise impeded

2121
01:48:07,640 --> 01:48:09,519
Speaker 7: the conduct of the meeting. So it's not just that

2122
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:13,280
Speaker 7: your remarks were nasty, it's that your behavior was disruptive.

2123
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:16,000
Speaker 7: The way that these remarks were delivered was interfering with

2124
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:19,200
Speaker 7: the conduct of the meeting. So the meeting is disrupted

2125
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:21,640
Speaker 7: because council is prevented from accomplishing its business in a

2126
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:26,400
Speaker 7: reasonably efficient manner. The court further wrote, indeed, such conduct

2127
01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:29,080
Speaker 7: may interfere with the rights of other speakers, and that's

2128
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:31,719
Speaker 7: what's happening here, right that these disruptions are not only

2129
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:33,799
Speaker 7: not your right. You don't have a right to disrupt

2130
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:37,919
Speaker 7: the meeting, but that behavior also fundamentally infringes on everyone

2131
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 7: else's rights to have the meeting. It keeps the meeting

2132
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:44,880
Speaker 7: from being conducted, and it's interfering with the conduct of

2133
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:48,160
Speaker 7: the government's business. So if they open a public forum,

2134
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:50,800
Speaker 7: anyone can speak in the public forum, and you can't

2135
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:52,480
Speaker 7: cut them off because of the content.

2136
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:52,799
Speaker 8: Of their speech.

2137
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:54,679
Speaker 7: But that doesn't mean there's no legal way to put

2138
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:57,839
Speaker 7: limits on public comment. If the rule is content neutral

2139
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,320
Speaker 7: and serves a legitimate government interest, the government can pose

2140
01:49:00,479 --> 01:49:03,639
Speaker 7: some restrictions on your speech, right like requiring a permit

2141
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 7: for a parade is a limit on speech, or saying

2142
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 7: you can't yell in a courtroom is a limit on

2143
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 7: your speech. But it's not a violation of your First

2144
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:14,760
Speaker 7: Amendment rights to say you can't disrupt a trial. But

2145
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:17,080
Speaker 7: more importantly, and the risk of getting too boring, right,

2146
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 7: like a meeting is not a sidewalk there is. This

2147
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:23,800
Speaker 7: is not just any public place where you're speaking. This

2148
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 7: is a meeting where business is being conductive. There's a

2149
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:29,120
Speaker 7: legitimate and compelling government interest in the ability to conduct

2150
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 7: the meeting, and so the rules that they can make

2151
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 7: in this space can vary state by state. You know,

2152
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 7: some states do or don't allow you to limit speakers

2153
01:49:40,479 --> 01:49:44,719
Speaker 7: to residents, or they can or can't limit the topics

2154
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 7: that are Germane. So it's going to vary a little bit.

2155
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 7: But the courts have repeatedly upheld, not just in the

2156
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 7: Norwalk case, the ability of a council to adopt a

2157
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 7: content neutral rule and use that rule to cut off

2158
01:49:55,800 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 7: or remove speakers who are disruptive. And honestly, I have

2159
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 7: to say, I think any city attorney worth assault knows this.

2160
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:06,320
Speaker 7: This is day one stuff. If your whole job, well

2161
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 7: not your whole job, but your job on Monday nights

2162
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 7: whenever the meeting is, is to provide legal advice to

2163
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,200
Speaker 7: a city council on how they're conducting their business. You

2164
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 7: know this because disruptive behavior during a meeting isn't some

2165
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 7: brand new phenomenon. But it's kind of remarkable. What I

2166
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:23,880
Speaker 7: watched like a hundred clips of this happening right and

2167
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:25,160
Speaker 7: over and over and over again.

2168
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 8: You see these city attorneys saying.

2169
01:50:26,439 --> 01:50:29,559
Speaker 7: Like, oh, we're powerless here, we're powerless here. We don't

2170
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:31,240
Speaker 7: want to get sued, there's nothing we can do, and

2171
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:33,200
Speaker 7: that's not true, and they know that.

2172
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I've seen people get escorted out of

2173
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 3: chambers for being disruptive in city council meetings before. Like

2174
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 3: they it happens relatively frequently. It's not like an uncommon,

2175
01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 3: brand new occurrence.

2176
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:51,840
Speaker 7: Right, I mean, I've seen that discretion applied appropriately and fascistically.

2177
01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 4: Right.

2178
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 7: Absolutely, it happens, but over and over and over again

2179
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:57,599
Speaker 7: in these situations, you see these city attorneys, the city

2180
01:50:57,600 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 7: councils saying.

2181
01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:00,880
Speaker 8: Like, I guess we just have to let them do it.

2182
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:04,360
Speaker 7: A commenter in one of the Sacramento meetings from last

2183
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 7: summer actually pointed out that, you know, she was saying

2184
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:10,799
Speaker 7: to her city council, you had no hesitation removing black

2185
01:51:10,920 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 7: members of the public from this room when they were

2186
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 7: angry that your cops murdered Stefan Clark. So why are

2187
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:22,400
Speaker 7: you so nervous about infringing on the free speech rights

2188
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:24,759
Speaker 7: of literal Nazis? Like someone who's just in here screaming

2189
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:27,839
Speaker 7: the N word? Why is that worthy of more breathing

2190
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:30,720
Speaker 7: room and something? You know, as a resident of the

2191
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,920
Speaker 7: city of Charlottesville who watches our local government pretty carefully.

2192
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:36,120
Speaker 7: Something we've found over and over again here is that

2193
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:40,240
Speaker 7: if fear of litigation is your starting point for making

2194
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:44,520
Speaker 7: decisions on how to govern, you're going to make cowardly, dangerous,

2195
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:49,320
Speaker 7: stupid decisions every time, and you're probably gonna get sued anyway.

2196
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:53,679
Speaker 7: So make the choice to protect people. Get good legal advice. Sure,

2197
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:56,200
Speaker 7: consult with your city attorney, Consult the case law.

2198
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 8: Don't be reckless.

2199
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:59,320
Speaker 7: But if you're faced with the opportunity to make a

2200
01:51:59,320 --> 01:52:02,120
Speaker 7: decision that text people, a decision that serves the public good,

2201
01:52:02,120 --> 01:52:04,599
Speaker 7: a decision that aligns with the values you claim to hold,

2202
01:52:05,240 --> 01:52:08,240
Speaker 7: but might result in someone filing a lawsuit against you

2203
01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:11,160
Speaker 7: that they're not going to win anyway, don't err on

2204
01:52:11,200 --> 01:52:14,160
Speaker 7: the side of shielding yourself from nuisance litigation at the

2205
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,040
Speaker 7: expense of the public.

2206
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 8: Don't just look at us in shrug. Your hands are

2207
01:52:17,720 --> 01:52:18,519
Speaker 8: not tied here.

2208
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:20,759
Speaker 7: And if you're not comfortable making that kind of decision,

2209
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 7: get off the diis. I mean, I'm not a city attorney,

2210
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:27,960
Speaker 7: but that would be my advice, right, And so again,

2211
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:30,519
Speaker 7: I think the bottom line here is that we can't

2212
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:34,519
Speaker 7: seed this ground. The end result here can't be well

2213
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,000
Speaker 7: local government just isn't a place where we can safely

2214
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 7: and meaningfully engage with elected officials on the issues that matter. Right,

2215
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:44,080
Speaker 7: that can't be the answer here. Don't wait until this

2216
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 7: is happening where you live to react to this, right

2217
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:49,519
Speaker 7: like it could happen here. It is happening in a

2218
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,160
Speaker 7: lot of places. You know, if you're inclined to do so,

2219
01:52:52,200 --> 01:52:55,719
Speaker 7: you know, show up, engage, speak your mind on local issues.

2220
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:58,480
Speaker 7: Don't wait for your city hall to become a battleground

2221
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:00,519
Speaker 7: to show up to counter right wing inflows. Right like,

2222
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 7: don't just react to reactionaries. Stake out that ground now,

2223
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:09,120
Speaker 7: that's our space. Right, make it clear that people are

2224
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 7: engaged and that they insist on their right to engage,

2225
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:14,880
Speaker 7: so that your city council can't say, well, people aren't

2226
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:17,439
Speaker 7: really making public comments anyway, we just won't have it.

2227
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:20,160
Speaker 7: And let make sure that they know that you will

2228
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:23,280
Speaker 7: not accept the death of local democracy at the hands

2229
01:53:23,320 --> 01:53:27,759
Speaker 7: of some Weasley paradox of tolerance bullshit about letting Nazis

2230
01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:29,760
Speaker 7: dominate our spaces.

2231
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:33,240
Speaker 3: I know there's been other people who've been like talking

2232
01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:38,439
Speaker 3: about and pointing out these instances of GDL zoom bombing

2233
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 3: and shutting down these meetings, But there certainly has been

2234
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:45,320
Speaker 3: less discussion of this being a deliberate tactic that GDL

2235
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:48,960
Speaker 3: is doing specifically to actually like shutting down the democratic process,

2236
01:53:49,439 --> 01:53:52,040
Speaker 3: like it has been so focused on, just like the

2237
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:54,760
Speaker 3: trolling and the spreading of anti Semitic rhetoric, which are

2238
01:53:55,360 --> 01:53:58,760
Speaker 3: big problems, but I think there's been a little bit

2239
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 3: less of a focus on the actually looking at this

2240
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:05,519
Speaker 3: as a deliberate tactic being employed to remove people's ability

2241
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 3: to engage democratically in the city or school board or

2242
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:12,280
Speaker 3: wherever they live. And I think viewing it as a

2243
01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:15,920
Speaker 3: deliberate tactic like that like you've been talking about, but

2244
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:17,880
Speaker 3: both gets like a better look at how these neo

2245
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:21,479
Speaker 3: Nazis are trying to organize. But also it's a more

2246
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 3: holistic approach towards why is this happening, And it can

2247
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 3: allow you to look at this as more of a

2248
01:54:28,120 --> 01:54:33,120
Speaker 3: tactical decision less than just kind of random trolling slurs XD,

2249
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:36,640
Speaker 3: which it can be kind of reduced to, which is

2250
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:40,520
Speaker 3: at the very least incomplete way of looking at this phenomenon,

2251
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 3: if not just kind of wholly inaccurate.

2252
01:54:43,240 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't want to give them too much credit,

2253
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:48,200
Speaker 7: right like they didn't have a brainstorming session where they

2254
01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 7: were thinking about ways to contribute to the death of democracy.

2255
01:54:52,120 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 8: I think that's sort of a phenomenon.

2256
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 7: That occurred as a result of their actions that they

2257
01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:01,600
Speaker 7: then saw and appreciated. Right They don't understand it, but

2258
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 7: I don't think they intended it from the outset. But

2259
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:06,800
Speaker 7: at this point it's hard to deny that that is

2260
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 7: something they're doing on purpose.

2261
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:11,280
Speaker 3: And that's just been an interesting trend with the GDL specifically,

2262
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:15,640
Speaker 3: especially considering the legislation trying to crack down on political flying,

2263
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:19,680
Speaker 3: which we might talk about at a later date. But yeah,

2264
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:24,720
Speaker 3: it's been a interesting watching the GDLs as political FORCET, yes,

2265
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:27,680
Speaker 3: is like annoying and bad in the rhetoric they spread,

2266
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 3: but also they've had this interesting ability to just either

2267
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:36,879
Speaker 3: affect legislation or like shut down people's ability to engage

2268
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:40,320
Speaker 3: with politics in their local area in a few notable ways.

2269
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:43,680
Speaker 7: So it's important to sort of sit for a minute

2270
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:45,720
Speaker 7: before you react to people like this, Right, Like you

2271
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:47,840
Speaker 7: were talking about that legislation that's going to end up

2272
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:50,440
Speaker 7: infringing on a lot of people's political speech, right, Like,

2273
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 7: you can't just react to the troll. You have to

2274
01:55:53,160 --> 01:55:54,960
Speaker 7: sort of think about the context in which this is

2275
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:58,600
Speaker 7: occurring and make a reasonable choice about how to react

2276
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:01,800
Speaker 7: so you don't end up giving them what they want

2277
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:05,040
Speaker 7: basically right, because they love the attention.

2278
01:56:05,120 --> 01:56:05,920
Speaker 8: They love the attention.

2279
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 7: Every time they do this, it ends up on the

2280
01:56:07,360 --> 01:56:10,360
Speaker 7: local news. People are talking about it, people are repeating

2281
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:12,520
Speaker 7: their message, and you don't need to give them that.

2282
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:17,680
Speaker 3: Well, thank you Molly for putting this together. This has

2283
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 3: been very enlightening, if slightly upsetting, but that is kind

2284
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:24,320
Speaker 3: of it's kind that's kind of the entire bit we

2285
01:56:24,400 --> 01:56:28,600
Speaker 3: do here. That's sort of the show. Huh. Where can

2286
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:29,879
Speaker 3: people find your work online?

2287
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:33,480
Speaker 7: You can find me on Twitter. I will never call

2288
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:36,920
Speaker 7: it x socialist dog mom. And in keeping with the

2289
01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:39,440
Speaker 7: spirit of this episode, most of what I use my

2290
01:56:39,480 --> 01:56:42,960
Speaker 7: Twitter account for is live tweeting my local city government meetings.

2291
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:45,880
Speaker 7: I've been doing that for god seven years now, so

2292
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 7: this is a subject that's near and dear to my heart.

2293
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:49,680
Speaker 7: I love engaging with municipal government.

2294
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:52,360
Speaker 4: Fantastic.

2295
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've attended more city council meetings the last year

2296
01:56:57,040 --> 01:57:00,160
Speaker 3: than I have ever before in my life. It has

2297
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:03,400
Speaker 3: certainly been an experience a lot of wacky, wacky and

2298
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:05,960
Speaker 3: unusual things happen in city council meetings.

2299
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:10,080
Speaker 7: Thank you Garrison so much for joining me today, and

2300
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:15,120
Speaker 7: hopefully we can bring listeners something even worse someday soon.

2301
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:20,320
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, stay tuned for more breaking Goham Defense League

2302
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:22,200
Speaker 3: news find Dark.

2303
01:57:36,200 --> 01:57:40,080
Speaker 4: Hey everyone, this is it could happen here and I'm

2304
01:57:40,120 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 4: your guest host, Matt Leeb. I'd say most of you

2305
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 4: probably know me from Robert and Sophie's podcast Behind the Bastards,

2306
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:49,680
Speaker 4: which you know I've become kind of notorious for the

2307
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:52,760
Speaker 4: time that I use a jar Jar Bank soundboard during

2308
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 4: a series about doctor Mangela. Yeah, I don't have that

2309
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:58,720
Speaker 4: soundboard with me today. Sorry. Fewer of you might know

2310
01:57:58,840 --> 01:58:02,200
Speaker 4: me from having the world's only Sopranos Slash the Wire

2311
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:05,960
Speaker 4: rewatch podcast pod Yourself a Gun. But the fewest of

2312
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:11,240
Speaker 4: you might know me from my brand new podcast, Bad Hasbara,

2313
01:58:11,480 --> 01:58:14,960
Speaker 4: the world's most moral podcast, in which me and some

2314
01:58:15,040 --> 01:58:18,600
Speaker 4: of my other anti Zionist or non Zionist Jewish friends

2315
01:58:19,000 --> 01:58:21,960
Speaker 4: and our other friends and our other guests guests who

2316
01:58:22,200 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 4: you know you've maybe heard, like Charine here, we have

2317
01:58:26,160 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 4: casual conversations about Israeli propaganda and Israeli propagandists. For some

2318
01:58:32,520 --> 01:58:35,280
Speaker 4: of you, this might be your first time hearing the

2319
01:58:35,320 --> 01:58:38,400
Speaker 4: word has bara, and that's why the homies at cool

2320
01:58:38,440 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 4: Zone Media invited me here today. So this episode is

2321
01:58:42,600 --> 01:58:49,400
Speaker 4: all about has balalah aka Israel's public relations and propaganda machine,

2322
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:52,560
Speaker 4: and I am thrilled to be joined by my friend

2323
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:57,000
Speaker 4: and one time cat sitter, churene Uness Hi Scheren.

2324
01:58:57,200 --> 01:59:00,600
Speaker 9: Hi, Matt. What an intro. Yeah, I'm excited to learn

2325
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:03,840
Speaker 9: more about this. Actually, also excited to know how you

2326
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:07,320
Speaker 9: properly say hasbara, because I don't know I say it right.

2327
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:14,320
Speaker 4: But lah, Yeah, it's yeah, that's I mean, sound in

2328
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:17,720
Speaker 4: the yeah, the law, you know, within with the throat

2329
01:59:18,480 --> 01:59:19,880
Speaker 4: has bah.

2330
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 9: You heard it here first.

2331
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:26,880
Speaker 4: Yes, you heard it here first. I'm not I'm not

2332
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:30,040
Speaker 4: the greatest at doing you know, Israeli accents or whatnot.

2333
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:33,760
Speaker 4: So throughout this podcast, I'm probably going to be butchering

2334
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:37,280
Speaker 4: a lot of Hebrew words. Uh and uh you know,

2335
01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:39,560
Speaker 4: just you're just gonna have to deal with it.

2336
01:59:39,880 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that's totally fine. That's just part of the game.

2337
01:59:42,640 --> 01:59:46,240
Speaker 9: I've pronounced every every name I've ever said on this.

2338
01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:49,120
Speaker 4: Show, So yeah, yeah, I mean you should hear me

2339
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:53,800
Speaker 4: trying to pronounce Arabic names like I can't do it.

2340
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 4: It's I mean, I attempt, Yes, that would if there's

2341
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,600
Speaker 4: any that happened in this episode, please, But before we

2342
02:00:01,720 --> 02:00:05,080
Speaker 4: get into talking about has Bah blah, I want to

2343
02:00:05,120 --> 02:00:10,360
Speaker 4: start with a quick story, Sarin. Are you familiar with

2344
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 4: the Birthright Trip?

2345
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:14,280
Speaker 9: Yes, I am.

2346
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:17,400
Speaker 4: It was one of those things where I was very

2347
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 4: excited to one day do the Birthright Trip and I

2348
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:22,560
Speaker 4: didn't really even question. I knew, like you know, it

2349
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 4: was a little bit, you know, they were trying to

2350
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:29,600
Speaker 4: whine and dine me to go there and you know,

2351
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:34,840
Speaker 4: maybe move or whatnot. But I didn't know how much

2352
02:00:35,280 --> 02:00:38,560
Speaker 4: they wanted me to move there until I went. So

2353
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:41,960
Speaker 4: for me, my Birthright trip is kind of why I'm

2354
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:46,040
Speaker 4: here today talking about Hasbara. It's why I started a

2355
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:49,760
Speaker 4: freaking podcast about it. It's when I first started clocking

2356
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:57,560
Speaker 4: Israeli propaganda. So I went in January twenty twelve. If

2357
02:00:57,600 --> 02:01:00,000
Speaker 4: you don't know Birthright, it's pretty much a two weeks,

2358
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:03,040
Speaker 4: all expenses paid trip for young Jews from all over

2359
02:01:03,080 --> 02:01:05,640
Speaker 4: the world to go to the Holy Land, reconnect with

2360
02:01:05,680 --> 02:01:08,440
Speaker 4: their Jewish roots, float in the dead seat. It is

2361
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:15,040
Speaker 4: a it is a propaganda tour of apartheid state. And

2362
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:17,840
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not going to get too much into

2363
02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:20,200
Speaker 4: the history of Birthright, you know and all the like

2364
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:23,880
Speaker 4: far right wing funders like Sheldon Adelson and stuff. There's

2365
02:01:23,880 --> 02:01:26,240
Speaker 4: like not enough time for that. But I'm mentioning it

2366
02:01:26,280 --> 02:01:29,160
Speaker 4: because it was the first time I saw how hasbara

2367
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:33,480
Speaker 4: was more than just propaganda, and how in my opinion,

2368
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:40,160
Speaker 4: it more closely resembles like indoctrination, and the organizers at

2369
02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:43,000
Speaker 4: Birthright did like a masterful job of this. Like I

2370
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:46,560
Speaker 4: went on a trip of American Jews who were like me,

2371
02:01:46,920 --> 02:01:51,040
Speaker 4: like they were like secular from mixed or like intermarried families,

2372
02:01:51,200 --> 02:01:54,440
Speaker 4: non bar mitzvud. It was all like other Matt Leib

2373
02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:58,560
Speaker 4: type Jews, like ethnic Jews, right, And I realized this.

2374
02:01:58,960 --> 02:02:02,680
Speaker 4: I think it was like day two of the trip.

2375
02:02:03,080 --> 02:02:07,200
Speaker 4: One of the Israeli tour guides literally gave us a

2376
02:02:07,240 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 4: bar mitzvah, like all at the same time we had

2377
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:14,520
Speaker 4: a group bar mitzvah. Yeah, And they did it by

2378
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:18,880
Speaker 4: saying like Okay, well now bab mitzvah. It just means

2379
02:02:18,920 --> 02:02:21,480
Speaker 4: you're a man. Now, everyone here is a man. Now,

2380
02:02:21,640 --> 02:02:26,200
Speaker 4: choose an Israeli name, and which was like for me,

2381
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:29,000
Speaker 4: I remember feeling a little you know, I was like, wait,

2382
02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:36,760
Speaker 4: there's supposed to be a theme party and fucking like yeah,

2383
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:39,480
Speaker 4: I supposed to yeah, DJ, my dad's gonna buy me

2384
02:02:39,560 --> 02:02:41,680
Speaker 4: a car, or at least me a like a Honda,

2385
02:02:42,360 --> 02:02:44,440
Speaker 4: Like I thought it was more than that, at the

2386
02:02:44,520 --> 02:02:46,560
Speaker 4: very least I thought I would have to like memorize

2387
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:48,720
Speaker 4: a tour portion. But no, you just go to Israel

2388
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:51,200
Speaker 4: and you know, a tour guy does it for you,

2389
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:55,000
Speaker 4: so like it really works though, like you really you

2390
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:59,400
Speaker 4: go there being like, you know, I'm European Jew, and

2391
02:02:59,440 --> 02:03:03,120
Speaker 4: you leave this and you're like I invented falafel. So

2392
02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:08,040
Speaker 4: the Hasbara highlight of the trip for me was this

2393
02:03:08,160 --> 02:03:13,240
Speaker 4: like mega like birthright mega event. It was in Jerusalem

2394
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:19,480
Speaker 4: and a huge arena in which they had like Israeli speakers, donors, rappers,

2395
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:22,480
Speaker 4: and there was like a there were rappers at one

2396
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:27,080
Speaker 4: point who just started rapping about things that they claim

2397
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:32,160
Speaker 4: Israel invented, like iPhone, computer chips and like the cherry tomato,

2398
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:36,560
Speaker 4: which was you know, like you And by the way,

2399
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:41,000
Speaker 4: a not insubstantial amount of the trip was spent telling

2400
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:45,440
Speaker 4: us about how Israel invented the cherry tomato. Like we

2401
02:03:45,520 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 4: went to places like you know, farms and stuff where

2402
02:03:50,440 --> 02:03:54,520
Speaker 4: they showed us this like drip irrigation. Multiple people were

2403
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:57,280
Speaker 4: just like, man, we invented the cherry tomato. Here can

2404
02:03:57,320 --> 02:03:59,720
Speaker 4: you believe it? And I was like, this seems like

2405
02:03:59,720 --> 02:04:03,680
Speaker 4: a lot of effort for just this one particular thing,

2406
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:09,720
Speaker 4: which may or may not be true. But yeah, So

2407
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:14,720
Speaker 4: the headliner of the mega event of that night, the

2408
02:04:14,840 --> 02:04:19,000
Speaker 4: cherry tomato on top, if you will, was a speech

2409
02:04:19,640 --> 02:04:27,000
Speaker 4: by none other than Prime Minister Benjamin Bibi Netanyahu. Straight up,

2410
02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:32,160
Speaker 4: the Prime Minister of Israel was the headline speaker of

2411
02:04:32,200 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 4: this birthright event and an arena filled with like twenty

2412
02:04:36,120 --> 02:04:41,760
Speaker 4: thousand teens and like early twenty somethings, which was kind

2413
02:04:41,760 --> 02:04:47,040
Speaker 4: of like amazing, Like you know, listen, here's the thing

2414
02:04:47,080 --> 02:04:50,240
Speaker 4: I knew Benjamin netnya who like I knew enough about

2415
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:54,640
Speaker 4: Israeli politics to know that, like he was a fucking

2416
02:04:54,760 --> 02:04:58,800
Speaker 4: right winger and bad. But like I have to admit,

2417
02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:01,480
Speaker 4: even I, you know, as a twenty six year old

2418
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:04,600
Speaker 4: who kind of was starting to get like woke on Palestine,

2419
02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:06,840
Speaker 4: you know, so to speak, Like even I was like

2420
02:05:06,920 --> 02:05:09,839
Speaker 4: kind of like, whoa this is. I'm a little charmed,

2421
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:12,360
Speaker 4: a little honored to see the Prime minister here. He

2422
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:16,040
Speaker 4: took time out of his busy schedule of doing crimes,

2423
02:05:16,160 --> 02:05:21,280
Speaker 4: probably to address us. And you know, I actually found

2424
02:05:21,920 --> 02:05:25,600
Speaker 4: the speech of that night. I actually have some clips

2425
02:05:25,600 --> 02:05:26,760
Speaker 4: from it that I want to play.

2426
02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:28,760
Speaker 9: That is incredible, that's great.

2427
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:33,320
Speaker 4: So yeah, he was, he was like casual, he was

2428
02:05:33,400 --> 02:05:34,160
Speaker 4: off the cuff.

2429
02:05:34,840 --> 02:05:36,400
Speaker 6: They wrote a speech for me. I'm not going to

2430
02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:36,760
Speaker 6: read it.

2431
02:05:41,320 --> 02:05:44,160
Speaker 4: Like he even did a little bit of crowd work.

2432
02:05:45,120 --> 02:05:46,480
Speaker 6: Anyone here named Rachel.

2433
02:05:47,400 --> 02:05:52,040
Speaker 4: So that right there is what we in the Jewish

2434
02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:56,680
Speaker 4: community call rachel profiling. That's when you just star in

2435
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,040
Speaker 4: front of a group of Jews and you ask whose

2436
02:05:59,160 --> 02:06:02,960
Speaker 4: name to Rachel. Shout out to Rachel Blumenthal for telling

2437
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 4: me that joke. In college. It was it was like

2438
02:06:04,880 --> 02:06:08,600
Speaker 4: a crash course in Hesbara. Like he told us we

2439
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:10,840
Speaker 4: were from Israel at one point.

2440
02:06:11,920 --> 02:06:16,720
Speaker 6: You all come from great countries, great countries. Did you

2441
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:22,240
Speaker 6: all come from here? All of you? That's your birthright?

2442
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 4: He was telling us that. Like you know, once again,

2443
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:30,120
Speaker 4: it was everything they invented, phone, you know, the cell phone, ships,

2444
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:32,680
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. He was telling us to make aliat

2445
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:35,320
Speaker 4: to Israel, which means to you know, move to return,

2446
02:06:35,400 --> 02:06:39,360
Speaker 4: to come back. You know. Essentially what he was vying

2447
02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:43,000
Speaker 4: for was like move to Israel and start a family.

2448
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 4: It's very like sex based, like the way it works.

2449
02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:49,360
Speaker 4: The big thing I took away was him telling us

2450
02:06:49,960 --> 02:06:53,520
Speaker 4: that he wanted us to go back home and tell

2451
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:56,320
Speaker 4: people the truth about Israel.

2452
02:06:56,840 --> 02:06:59,960
Speaker 6: But the most important battle that we have to find

2453
02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:02,840
Speaker 6: is the battle for the truth. And all of you

2454
02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:06,280
Speaker 6: can become ambassadors for the truth and ambassadors for Israel.

2455
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:11,080
Speaker 4: And of course you know, he then proceeded to tell

2456
02:07:11,200 --> 02:07:13,720
Speaker 4: us what the truth about Israel was.

2457
02:07:14,440 --> 02:07:19,680
Speaker 6: Go back your respective countries and tell the truth about Israel.

2458
02:07:20,160 --> 02:07:22,160
Speaker 6: Only way to fight a lives who tell the truth.

2459
02:07:22,840 --> 02:07:26,960
Speaker 6: Tell him about a country where people are free, free

2460
02:07:27,000 --> 02:07:30,840
Speaker 6: to initiate, free to work, free to speak. It's a

2461
02:07:30,880 --> 02:07:33,160
Speaker 6: country where you can criticize the Prime Minister although he

2462
02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:37,360
Speaker 6: never makes mistakes. This is a country which has in

2463
02:07:37,400 --> 02:07:41,600
Speaker 6: which Arabs have full right something they've been denied in

2464
02:07:41,680 --> 02:07:44,520
Speaker 6: all the vast lands around us. And a woman in

2465
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:48,320
Speaker 6: this country can sit anywhere she wants. That's our position.

2466
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:52,880
Speaker 6: This is a free country.

2467
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:58,480
Speaker 4: So him going up there telling me that what he

2468
02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:02,000
Speaker 4: wants from me is to go back home and be

2469
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:04,880
Speaker 4: an ambassador for Israel and tell the truth about Israel.

2470
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:07,800
Speaker 4: You know, it was the first time I realized that

2471
02:08:08,040 --> 02:08:10,560
Speaker 4: he was giving me a job to do. And this

2472
02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:13,520
Speaker 4: is a job that I think a lot of Jewish

2473
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:16,760
Speaker 4: people who may be listening to this podcast can relate

2474
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:21,240
Speaker 4: to the job of telling the truth about Israel and

2475
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:25,960
Speaker 4: the job of you know, stopping the slander that is

2476
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:30,080
Speaker 4: out there about Israel in the media and on the

2477
02:08:30,120 --> 02:08:33,920
Speaker 4: internet and press and all that stuff. And it was

2478
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:36,280
Speaker 4: the first time I realized that, like, oh, part of

2479
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:40,600
Speaker 4: the hasbara isn't just you know, some government thing. It's

2480
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:44,280
Speaker 4: like my job. My job is to is to tell

2481
02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:47,120
Speaker 4: the truth. And he said something in that clip, the

2482
02:08:47,160 --> 02:08:51,160
Speaker 4: only way to fight allies with the truth. And so

2483
02:08:51,320 --> 02:08:55,080
Speaker 4: I am going to follow his advice. That's what I'm

2484
02:08:55,080 --> 02:08:57,640
Speaker 4: going to do, Shreen. I'm going to tell people the

2485
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:03,320
Speaker 4: truth about Israel. And I think it's time to do it.

2486
02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:05,800
Speaker 4: So let's get into it. Let's talk about the truth.

2487
02:09:16,400 --> 02:09:20,520
Speaker 4: Let's get into talking about hasbara. What is it? What

2488
02:09:20,680 --> 02:09:25,040
Speaker 4: is it? And so loosely, hasbara is it's a modern

2489
02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 4: Hebrew word derived from the word las bier hasbier meaning

2490
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:36,680
Speaker 4: to explain or explanation. I say loosely because it's kind

2491
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:39,120
Speaker 4: of a made up word. So, you know, a lot

2492
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:42,880
Speaker 4: of words in modern Hebrew are sort of made up words. Remember,

2493
02:09:42,920 --> 02:09:46,280
Speaker 4: Hebrew is like an ancient liturgical language, and modern Hebrew

2494
02:09:46,360 --> 02:09:50,080
Speaker 4: was created by like Jewish linguist nerds who wanted to

2495
02:09:50,120 --> 02:09:53,320
Speaker 4: revive the language to be a spoken one, and that's

2496
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:55,600
Speaker 4: how you got modern Hebrew, which is fine, there's nothing

2497
02:09:55,960 --> 02:10:00,400
Speaker 4: wrong with reviving a dead language. But because of that,

2498
02:10:00,520 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 4: a lot of the words in modern Hebrew are kind

2499
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:09,120
Speaker 4: of inventions. So, according to Mosaic Magazine, has bara is

2500
02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:13,640
Speaker 4: strictly a twentieth centuryism. You won't find it in Eliezer

2501
02:10:13,720 --> 02:10:18,440
Speaker 4: Benu Huda's a monumental Complete Dictionary of Ancient and Modern Hebrew,

2502
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:22,480
Speaker 4: whose second volume, in which Hasbara appears only as the

2503
02:10:22,520 --> 02:10:26,960
Speaker 4: first word of hasbarat Panim, was published in nineteen oh two.

2504
02:10:27,120 --> 02:10:30,240
Speaker 4: So it's not something that you see in kind of

2505
02:10:30,280 --> 02:10:34,480
Speaker 4: like the original beginnings of you know, the creation of

2506
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:40,400
Speaker 4: modern Hebrew. Like colloquially, hisbara like refers to like media

2507
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:44,360
Speaker 4: pr branding, mud slinging. It's kind of a like a

2508
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:47,400
Speaker 4: sort of like catch all term for general propaganda used

2509
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:50,920
Speaker 4: to create a narrative based on Israeli government talking points

2510
02:10:50,960 --> 02:10:55,720
Speaker 4: meant for a foreign, usually American or just generally Western audience.

2511
02:10:56,640 --> 02:11:01,240
Speaker 4: People who deal in hasbara are called has barists has baristas,

2512
02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:06,360
Speaker 4: which is fun's that's true. Yeah, yeah, I mean listen,

2513
02:11:06,600 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 4: has barista, I think gives gives it a little bit

2514
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:12,360
Speaker 4: more flair. You know, kind of imagine someone kind of

2515
02:11:12,360 --> 02:11:14,880
Speaker 4: like making you coffee, but instead of coffee, it's they

2516
02:11:14,920 --> 02:11:15,600
Speaker 4: make you lies.

2517
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:18,560
Speaker 9: Nope, I'm not gonna do that.

2518
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:26,000
Speaker 10: Sorry, I like it. I wish I never was born. Okay, Well,

2519
02:11:26,040 --> 02:11:28,720
Speaker 10: so there's all sorts of like has bars. Like some

2520
02:11:28,800 --> 02:11:32,960
Speaker 10: of them have like official positions within the Israeli government,

2521
02:11:33,040 --> 02:11:37,640
Speaker 10: such as the head of the IDF Spokesperson's unit, Daniel Hagari,

2522
02:11:37,680 --> 02:11:40,280
Speaker 10: who you might remember is the guy from that video

2523
02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:44,680
Speaker 10: taken at the you know, the children's hospital, you know,

2524
02:11:44,760 --> 02:11:47,440
Speaker 10: in Gaza, and he's like pointing at what he thought

2525
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:51,000
Speaker 10: was a list of his Israeli hostages, but was like

2526
02:11:51,160 --> 02:11:54,520
Speaker 10: literally just a calendar didn't have any names. It was

2527
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:56,840
Speaker 10: just he was pointing at days of the week thinking

2528
02:11:57,000 --> 02:12:00,160
Speaker 10: they were names, because that's what a calendar has. And

2529
02:12:00,280 --> 02:12:04,440
Speaker 10: also it's so fucking weird that they can't read Arabic, Like, yeah,

2530
02:12:05,000 --> 02:12:07,960
Speaker 10: you're in the Middle East, you are the spokesperson.

2531
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:12,080
Speaker 9: I think something interesting about how Hebrew was revived as

2532
02:12:12,120 --> 02:12:14,440
Speaker 9: well is that a lot of words were taken from Arabic.

2533
02:12:14,520 --> 02:12:16,840
Speaker 9: A lot of words are very similar to Arabic. So

2534
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:20,720
Speaker 9: it's like even more funny that they would they can't

2535
02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:23,040
Speaker 9: even read the language that they kind of took a

2536
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:24,640
Speaker 9: lot of words from.

2537
02:12:25,040 --> 02:12:28,000
Speaker 4: But I'm saying that, like, yeah, in Israel, it's almost

2538
02:12:28,040 --> 02:12:31,520
Speaker 4: like the appropriation is just part of the process of

2539
02:12:31,640 --> 02:12:35,280
Speaker 4: the cleansing, you know, just like stealing something, saying it's

2540
02:12:35,320 --> 02:12:39,240
Speaker 4: ours and then not even being able to identify an

2541
02:12:39,280 --> 02:12:44,000
Speaker 4: Arabic word that you yourself say so, yeah, so there's him.

2542
02:12:44,080 --> 02:12:47,160
Speaker 4: Then there's like everyone if you've been on Twitter, you've

2543
02:12:47,160 --> 02:12:51,320
Speaker 4: seen a lot of Alon Levy who he's His official

2544
02:12:51,360 --> 02:12:55,960
Speaker 4: title is the official Israeli government spokesperson, and that's through

2545
02:12:56,560 --> 02:12:59,280
Speaker 4: the basically the office of the Prime Minister. He's a

2546
02:12:59,280 --> 02:13:02,720
Speaker 4: British guy, like he raises his eyebrows. It's like the meme,

2547
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 4: you know, like he goes like, oh, that's what he's

2548
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:11,520
Speaker 4: famous for. Then there's a lot of these like non

2549
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:16,520
Speaker 4: governmental like Israeli Civil Society, haspara organizations like Stand with

2550
02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:21,320
Speaker 4: Us or like a PAK, the Washington Institute for Near

2551
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:25,720
Speaker 4: East Policy, the Anti Defamation League, Christians United for Israel,

2552
02:13:25,840 --> 02:13:31,000
Speaker 4: the Israel on Campus Coalition. I mean, there are tons

2553
02:13:31,040 --> 02:13:33,840
Speaker 4: of them, tons of them. And then of course there's

2554
02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:35,400
Speaker 4: people who are just in it for the love of

2555
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:39,280
Speaker 4: the game, like celebrities, artists, you know, actors, you know,

2556
02:13:39,320 --> 02:13:43,200
Speaker 4: who make like Israel public advocacy part of their thing.

2557
02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:47,840
Speaker 4: It's a fascinating world filled with ghouls and goblins. So

2558
02:13:48,120 --> 02:13:52,920
Speaker 4: the word his bara itself, interestingly is hasbara. So early

2559
02:13:53,000 --> 02:13:57,240
Speaker 4: Zionists had no problem calling their pr campaigns and like

2560
02:13:57,320 --> 02:14:01,160
Speaker 4: they're branding for a Jewish state and Palestine propaganda. They

2561
02:14:01,200 --> 02:14:03,720
Speaker 4: would say, it's we got to do propaganda, because in

2562
02:14:03,720 --> 02:14:08,000
Speaker 4: the early twentieth twentieth century, the term was generally considered

2563
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:10,960
Speaker 4: to be neutral, like people said they were doing propaganda

2564
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:14,800
Speaker 4: when they were doing propaganda. Once the word became a pejorative,

2565
02:14:15,280 --> 02:14:17,360
Speaker 4: they created the word has borrow, which is a nicer

2566
02:14:17,400 --> 02:14:21,200
Speaker 4: sounding word with more neutral connotations. And although it's now

2567
02:14:21,600 --> 02:14:24,320
Speaker 4: used as a pejorative by critics of Israel and me

2568
02:14:24,520 --> 02:14:27,160
Speaker 4: and stuff, the word is still used to this day

2569
02:14:27,520 --> 02:14:31,240
Speaker 4: in Israel. It is still a fairly neutral sounding word.

2570
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:35,600
Speaker 4: There are has Borrow workshops sponsored by Israel. They have

2571
02:14:35,840 --> 02:14:38,880
Speaker 4: has Barra Fellowships. That's the name of the fellowship. Like

2572
02:14:38,920 --> 02:14:42,240
Speaker 4: you can get merch that says has bar A Fellowship

2573
02:14:42,280 --> 02:14:45,440
Speaker 4: on it. And the reason is because it doesn't translate.

2574
02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:48,720
Speaker 4: The word isn't translate to propaganda. It just means to explain,

2575
02:14:48,840 --> 02:14:51,720
Speaker 4: which is you know, seems innocent enough. It's not about

2576
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:55,879
Speaker 4: doing propaganda. It's not about they don't call themselves liars.

2577
02:14:55,920 --> 02:14:59,080
Speaker 4: They're not saying I'm going to lie. They say they're

2578
02:14:59,120 --> 02:15:05,440
Speaker 4: merely just explaining. And I found this speech from the

2579
02:15:05,480 --> 02:15:10,800
Speaker 4: Middle East Policy Council that goes into depth about what

2580
02:15:11,040 --> 02:15:16,760
Speaker 4: has Bar is beyond. Just like propaganda, quote has Bar

2581
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:21,160
Speaker 4: links information warfare to the strategic efforts of the state

2582
02:15:21,240 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 4: to bolster the unity of the home front, ensure the

2583
02:15:24,160 --> 02:15:28,879
Speaker 4: support of allies, disrupt efforts to organize hostile coalitions, determine

2584
02:15:28,880 --> 02:15:32,320
Speaker 4: the way issues are defined by the media, the intelligentsia,

2585
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:36,560
Speaker 4: the social networks. Established parameters of politically correct discourse, de

2586
02:15:36,760 --> 02:15:40,600
Speaker 4: legitimize both critics and their arguments, and shape the common

2587
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:47,600
Speaker 4: understanding and interpretation of the results of international negotiations. So

2588
02:15:47,720 --> 02:15:53,680
Speaker 4: behind this term is a large, well funded information warfare

2589
02:15:53,720 --> 02:15:58,120
Speaker 4: apparatus dedicated to shaping Israeli discourse in the media and

2590
02:15:58,160 --> 02:16:03,520
Speaker 4: the government and academic insutions everywhere. And they use all

2591
02:16:03,560 --> 02:16:07,480
Speaker 4: of the tools in their toolbox to silence criticism of Israel,

2592
02:16:07,640 --> 02:16:12,960
Speaker 4: and what they can't silence, they soften. Sometimes it's through

2593
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:18,200
Speaker 4: coordinated letter writing campaigns. Sometimes it's harassment. Sometimes it's dosing.

2594
02:16:18,520 --> 02:16:21,680
Speaker 4: You know, people have been docked. So before I continue,

2595
02:16:21,720 --> 02:16:24,360
Speaker 4: I want to address that uncomfortable feeling you had when

2596
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:27,560
Speaker 4: I talked about like Israel and the media. I want

2597
02:16:27,600 --> 02:16:30,920
Speaker 4: to say that is that is not to say that

2598
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:35,320
Speaker 4: Israel or the Israel Lobby or Zionists quote control the media,

2599
02:16:35,360 --> 02:16:39,720
Speaker 4: all right, So they do not. That's why hasbara exists,

2600
02:16:40,360 --> 02:16:42,840
Speaker 4: you know, That's why the Israel lobby exists. If they

2601
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:47,200
Speaker 4: controlled the media, they wouldn't have groups like Camera, for example,

2602
02:16:47,320 --> 02:16:50,720
Speaker 4: constantly day in and day out, harassing the New York

2603
02:16:50,760 --> 02:16:54,160
Speaker 4: Times and CNN and PBS to get them to talk

2604
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:59,160
Speaker 4: about Israel correctly. Okay, So it's important when people hear

2605
02:16:59,200 --> 02:17:02,760
Speaker 4: these criticisms of Israel that they don't try to see

2606
02:17:02,800 --> 02:17:08,040
Speaker 4: them as like otherizing Israel or like you know a

2607
02:17:08,080 --> 02:17:10,120
Speaker 4: lot of people, they get uncomfortable because a lot of

2608
02:17:10,120 --> 02:17:14,320
Speaker 4: these things will match old anti Semitic tropes. But it's

2609
02:17:14,360 --> 02:17:19,879
Speaker 4: important to remember that these lobbying groups exist in Israel.

2610
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:23,360
Speaker 4: They exist in the gun lobby, in the big oil lobby.

2611
02:17:23,600 --> 02:17:27,240
Speaker 4: This is not unique to Israel. The unique thing about

2612
02:17:27,280 --> 02:17:32,240
Speaker 4: it is how willing the American public is and the

2613
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:37,440
Speaker 4: West in general is to letting themselves be live to

2614
02:17:38,080 --> 02:17:41,160
Speaker 4: That's why I'm interested in it. But let's talk about

2615
02:17:41,200 --> 02:17:44,600
Speaker 4: Camera real quick, because this is a recent thing that happened.

2616
02:17:45,560 --> 02:17:49,760
Speaker 4: Some news happened recently about the New York Times and

2617
02:17:49,800 --> 02:17:53,240
Speaker 4: their connection to CAMERA. This is from a recent article

2618
02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 4: in The Intercept. The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East

2619
02:17:57,760 --> 02:18:01,440
Speaker 4: Reporting and Analysis, or CAMERA, was founded in nineteen eighty

2620
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:04,880
Speaker 4: two in response to what it claims was anti Israel

2621
02:18:04,959 --> 02:18:08,800
Speaker 4: bias in the Washington Post reporting on the Israeli invasion

2622
02:18:08,800 --> 02:18:12,480
Speaker 4: of Lebanon. Since its inception, CAMERA has successfully lobbied for

2623
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:16,720
Speaker 4: hundreds of corrections in major media outlets seeking to streamline

2624
02:18:16,760 --> 02:18:19,920
Speaker 4: a pro Israel line in news reports and editorials. It

2625
02:18:20,000 --> 02:18:23,280
Speaker 4: is mere journalists whose work it disagrees with and launched

2626
02:18:23,280 --> 02:18:27,600
Speaker 4: boycott campaigns against news organizations it believes are not responding

2627
02:18:27,640 --> 02:18:31,560
Speaker 4: with enough deference to its requests. So the way this

2628
02:18:31,760 --> 02:18:35,000
Speaker 4: group operates is that they go through any and every

2629
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:39,640
Speaker 4: article about Israel, looking for sentences, looking for terms, definitions,

2630
02:18:39,680 --> 02:18:43,960
Speaker 4: anything they disagree with, and lobby for corrections to be issued.

2631
02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:47,880
Speaker 4: Camera doesn't do this quietly. They openly brag about it

2632
02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:51,879
Speaker 4: on their website. Like recently, Camera successfully lobbied The New

2633
02:18:51,959 --> 02:18:55,160
Speaker 4: York Times to issue a correction removing the word occupation

2634
02:18:56,160 --> 02:18:58,760
Speaker 4: from an article, and they wrote this on their website.

2635
02:18:58,959 --> 02:19:02,920
Speaker 4: Quote the ask slipped for their New York Times reporters

2636
02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:08,320
Speaker 4: Kum Hamas stenographers this week when they absolutely neglected to

2637
02:19:08,400 --> 02:19:12,959
Speaker 4: done down Hamas's preferred language before passing off the terror

2638
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:18,440
Speaker 4: organization's talking points as original reporting. Take notice of the

2639
02:19:18,480 --> 02:19:22,039
Speaker 4: framing of The New York Times and their mask slipping

2640
02:19:22,240 --> 02:19:27,000
Speaker 4: and their reporters as being stenographers for Hamas. This is

2641
02:19:27,080 --> 02:19:31,560
Speaker 4: like quite the accusation, given that The New York Times

2642
02:19:31,600 --> 02:19:35,720
Speaker 4: is like has and continues to have coverage described as

2643
02:19:35,800 --> 02:19:41,199
Speaker 4: biased in favor of Israel Like. According to an Intercept analysis,

2644
02:19:41,200 --> 02:19:43,640
Speaker 4: it was found that in the first six weeks of

2645
02:19:43,680 --> 02:19:49,039
Speaker 4: the war, New York Times consistently delegitimized Palestinian deaths and

2646
02:19:49,080 --> 02:19:54,119
Speaker 4: cultivated a gross imbalance in coverage to pro Israeli sources

2647
02:19:54,160 --> 02:19:58,440
Speaker 4: and voices. So the exact opposite of what Camera is

2648
02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:02,160
Speaker 4: claiming is the truth here. You know, this is this

2649
02:20:02,280 --> 02:20:05,080
Speaker 4: is actually a famous hes bar A tactic. It is

2650
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:09,880
Speaker 4: the I am rubber, you are glue tactic. And it's

2651
02:20:09,959 --> 02:20:12,760
Speaker 4: really something to see it in action, Like I don't know,

2652
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:16,840
Speaker 4: suring if you've seen how often you've like read some

2653
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:22,400
Speaker 4: pro Israeli voices, you know, has Baris online and heard

2654
02:20:22,440 --> 02:20:25,520
Speaker 4: them say stuff that you're like, I know for a fact,

2655
02:20:25,720 --> 02:20:28,240
Speaker 4: the exact opposite of this thing is true, you know

2656
02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:28,760
Speaker 4: what I mean?

2657
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:34,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, every accusation is a confession. It feels like that

2658
02:20:34,600 --> 02:20:36,760
Speaker 9: is true all the time when it comes to the stuff.

2659
02:20:36,760 --> 02:20:39,520
Speaker 9: And also the intercept article is very good. I'll put

2660
02:20:39,560 --> 02:20:41,280
Speaker 9: in the description for those who to read the whole thing.

2661
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:43,320
Speaker 9: I'm glad you mentioned that because I didn't know that

2662
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:45,840
Speaker 9: much about Camera until I read that article, and I

2663
02:20:45,879 --> 02:20:48,680
Speaker 9: was just like, what, like, of course I knew that

2664
02:20:48,720 --> 02:20:51,080
Speaker 9: that was a thing that was that was done like

2665
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:53,440
Speaker 9: they would change words. Recently, The New York Times was

2666
02:20:53,520 --> 02:20:55,920
Speaker 9: like a decline of death or life. Like they use

2667
02:20:55,959 --> 02:20:58,080
Speaker 9: the word decline to describe.

2668
02:20:58,040 --> 02:21:01,560
Speaker 4: To describe what was happening in Gaza. They decided the

2669
02:21:01,720 --> 02:21:06,039
Speaker 4: articles headline was going to be like death's actually declining in.

2670
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:09,280
Speaker 9: Gaza exactly, and like the standard ones are always there,

2671
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:12,560
Speaker 9: like blast or conflict or whatever it is. Those are

2672
02:21:13,160 --> 02:21:17,039
Speaker 9: unfortunately so normal now. But to see it all laid

2673
02:21:17,080 --> 02:21:19,600
Speaker 9: out by the Intersect was really I'm really glad I

2674
02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:21,400
Speaker 9: did that article so it will be in the description,

2675
02:21:21,440 --> 02:21:23,240
Speaker 9: and I'm glad you mentioned it. But it does go

2676
02:21:23,360 --> 02:21:26,560
Speaker 9: back to the idea that every accusation is a confession.

2677
02:21:26,560 --> 02:21:28,480
Speaker 9: I think that's something to remember every time you see

2678
02:21:28,959 --> 02:21:29,760
Speaker 9: a headline.

2679
02:21:29,920 --> 02:21:34,360
Speaker 4: It's true, and it's something that you know. It's almost

2680
02:21:34,360 --> 02:21:37,920
Speaker 4: become a cliche online because I've seen it so many

2681
02:21:37,959 --> 02:21:41,959
Speaker 4: times people saying that, and I think it's important to

2682
02:21:41,959 --> 02:21:46,640
Speaker 4: remember that this is sort of the tactic of hesbara.

2683
02:21:46,840 --> 02:21:51,959
Speaker 4: Like what makes hesbara particularly notable and like often hilarious

2684
02:21:52,040 --> 02:21:54,200
Speaker 4: is that it doesn't merely just spin narratives, but it

2685
02:21:54,280 --> 02:21:59,480
Speaker 4: inverts them to essentially make like an alternate reality. It's

2686
02:21:59,520 --> 02:22:03,280
Speaker 4: not just that has bara is information warfare. Has Bara

2687
02:22:03,440 --> 02:22:08,800
Speaker 4: is straight up info wars like Alex Jones level shit

2688
02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:13,440
Speaker 4: the same way. Alex Jones will run the same like

2689
02:22:13,760 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 4: fantastical paranoid thread to every major news event that happens

2690
02:22:19,879 --> 02:22:22,560
Speaker 4: in order to reinforce his worldview and prove that he's

2691
02:22:22,640 --> 02:22:25,119
Speaker 4: right and everyone else is wrong. You know, Like that's

2692
02:22:25,440 --> 02:22:28,360
Speaker 4: Israel does this, but with like far more money and

2693
02:22:28,520 --> 02:22:31,680
Speaker 4: far greater success, and it kind of makes sense why

2694
02:22:31,680 --> 02:22:36,160
Speaker 4: they're successful at it, Like Alex Jones Info Wars shit

2695
02:22:36,320 --> 02:22:40,360
Speaker 4: like praise on white Christian paranoia that like the Blacks

2696
02:22:40,360 --> 02:22:42,320
Speaker 4: are trying to take away our guns so they can

2697
02:22:42,400 --> 02:22:46,800
Speaker 4: make our children trans or whatever, like total fantasy in

2698
02:22:46,959 --> 02:22:49,840
Speaker 4: saying shit that you have to be like already far

2699
02:22:49,959 --> 02:22:54,039
Speaker 4: right wing to believe, well, like Israeli info Wars praise

2700
02:22:54,120 --> 02:22:57,880
Speaker 4: on a much more grounded in reality paranoia that of

2701
02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:03,520
Speaker 4: anti Semitism, Like anti Semitism, it's historical, it's evil, it's pervasive,

2702
02:23:03,560 --> 02:23:07,599
Speaker 4: it's pernicious. Like this kind of paranoia makes sense, and

2703
02:23:07,640 --> 02:23:10,000
Speaker 4: not just for Jews, but like for anyone of conscience,

2704
02:23:10,280 --> 02:23:16,120
Speaker 4: anyone who has empathy, you know, like that they understand

2705
02:23:16,560 --> 02:23:19,360
Speaker 4: anti Semitism is bad and needs to be fought, and

2706
02:23:19,400 --> 02:23:24,040
Speaker 4: that makes Hasbara very effective. You know, people want to

2707
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:27,320
Speaker 4: support Israel because people want to support the Jewish people

2708
02:23:27,600 --> 02:23:30,080
Speaker 4: and they want to fight anti Semitism. And when the

2709
02:23:30,120 --> 02:23:33,320
Speaker 4: IDF dismantles a children's hospital and says we had to

2710
02:23:33,360 --> 02:23:37,119
Speaker 4: do it to stop Pomas. Look, here's a list of hostages.

2711
02:23:37,959 --> 02:23:41,800
Speaker 4: People want to believe them. It's like Molder from the

2712
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:46,039
Speaker 4: X Files, like I want to believe, which is the

2713
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:49,360
Speaker 4: same impulse as Alex Jones believers. Essentially, like you don't

2714
02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:52,320
Speaker 4: want Sandy Hook to be a possibility. You want it

2715
02:23:52,360 --> 02:23:55,120
Speaker 4: to be a conspiracy to take your guns away. You

2716
02:23:55,200 --> 02:23:59,680
Speaker 4: want those children to be secretly actors pretending to be dead.

2717
02:24:00,240 --> 02:24:02,680
Speaker 4: So like when Israel says we aren't killing children, we're

2718
02:24:02,760 --> 02:24:04,760
Speaker 4: killing hamas, people want to believe that.

2719
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:08,440
Speaker 9: And yeah, let's just say hate that you compared Fox

2720
02:24:08,480 --> 02:24:11,280
Speaker 9: Mulder to the like you dragged him into this and

2721
02:24:11,320 --> 02:24:12,200
Speaker 9: I'll get over it.

2722
02:24:12,240 --> 02:24:16,640
Speaker 4: But I'm sorry to you know, to bring him into

2723
02:24:16,680 --> 02:24:20,959
Speaker 4: this conversation. But you know, I'm just saying, Molder, if

2724
02:24:20,959 --> 02:24:23,240
Speaker 4: he wants to believe that stuff, what else does he

2725
02:24:23,280 --> 02:24:26,760
Speaker 4: want to believe? You just hope, you really hope and

2726
02:24:26,800 --> 02:24:28,800
Speaker 4: pray that he's not going to fall for the hasbara,

2727
02:24:28,959 --> 02:24:32,720
Speaker 4: but he might know you really don't, and it's like,

2728
02:24:33,080 --> 02:24:35,440
Speaker 4: you know, it's his bar is effective because it gives

2729
02:24:35,480 --> 02:24:40,480
Speaker 4: you something like a nice, legitimate sounding explanation for why

2730
02:24:40,600 --> 02:24:44,000
Speaker 4: Israel needed to do something that you might usually think

2731
02:24:44,120 --> 02:24:48,080
Speaker 4: is bad. Like that's how it's worked for decades, in

2732
02:24:48,120 --> 02:24:50,840
Speaker 4: the same way that hesbara serves to explain things for

2733
02:24:51,000 --> 02:24:55,119
Speaker 4: you to basically take the Israeli government at its word,

2734
02:24:55,280 --> 02:24:57,000
Speaker 4: that's kind of how it works. It gives you a

2735
02:24:57,040 --> 02:24:59,960
Speaker 4: believable explanation and not only sounds like kind of real,

2736
02:25:00,240 --> 02:25:05,640
Speaker 4: but you know, conforms to your personal beliefs. And yeah,

2737
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:10,640
Speaker 4: but speaking of personal beliefs, if there's one thing, oh,

2738
02:25:10,720 --> 02:25:12,960
Speaker 4: let's see if I can do this. If there's one

2739
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:19,039
Speaker 4: thing I'd love to believe in, it's commerce. And so yes,

2740
02:25:19,160 --> 02:25:21,800
Speaker 4: I mean listen, people will have to make money somehow,

2741
02:25:22,080 --> 02:25:25,960
Speaker 4: so it looks like we have some products and services

2742
02:25:25,959 --> 02:25:30,160
Speaker 4: that we have to sell. And yeah, when they sell

2743
02:25:30,200 --> 02:25:33,360
Speaker 4: you these these products and services, please believe them when

2744
02:25:33,360 --> 02:25:47,039
Speaker 4: they say how good they are. And we are back.

2745
02:25:48,320 --> 02:25:52,600
Speaker 4: So we were talking about hespara and how you know,

2746
02:25:52,840 --> 02:25:57,119
Speaker 4: the explanations conform to your personal beliefs. The interesting thing

2747
02:25:57,160 --> 02:26:01,520
Speaker 4: about asbara is that they have different types of hespara

2748
02:26:01,640 --> 02:26:05,320
Speaker 4: for a wide range of personal beliefs. It's not one

2749
02:26:05,360 --> 02:26:08,080
Speaker 4: size fits all. It depends on who you are. There's

2750
02:26:08,120 --> 02:26:12,039
Speaker 4: a conservative version and there's a liberal version like Israel.

2751
02:26:12,879 --> 02:26:16,720
Speaker 4: Israel has been very successful and their ability to brand

2752
02:26:16,720 --> 02:26:20,879
Speaker 4: themselves is both a liberal democracy and a outpost for

2753
02:26:20,959 --> 02:26:26,920
Speaker 4: Western values fighting the Muslim hordes. Usually these strategies have

2754
02:26:27,000 --> 02:26:31,520
Speaker 4: been like pretty separated, right, you know, like you can't

2755
02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:36,039
Speaker 4: claim you can't do them at the same time, it'll

2756
02:26:36,080 --> 02:26:39,880
Speaker 4: sound weird. It's like Israel is the only gay friendly,

2757
02:26:40,040 --> 02:26:43,560
Speaker 4: climate conscious, feminist democracy and that's why we got to

2758
02:26:43,600 --> 02:26:50,120
Speaker 4: do genocide. Like that doesn't that doesn't sound right. Like

2759
02:26:50,160 --> 02:26:55,000
Speaker 4: you tell the city dwelling liberal elites about the gay stuff,

2760
02:26:55,440 --> 02:26:59,440
Speaker 4: you tell the conservative Christians about the Western civilization stuff.

2761
02:26:59,480 --> 02:27:03,760
Speaker 4: That's kind of how it works. The basic conservative hissbara

2762
02:27:03,760 --> 02:27:06,920
Speaker 4: doesn't actually interest me all that much because it's I

2763
02:27:06,959 --> 02:27:08,840
Speaker 4: don't know, they don't have to work that hard at

2764
02:27:08,840 --> 02:27:12,040
Speaker 4: getting conservatives to be okay with killing Muslims. You know,

2765
02:27:12,200 --> 02:27:16,000
Speaker 4: it's like Muslims Arabs, you know, they they're they're fully

2766
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:18,879
Speaker 4: willing to You don't even have to like couch it

2767
02:27:18,920 --> 02:27:19,480
Speaker 4: in something.

2768
02:27:19,640 --> 02:27:21,080
Speaker 9: No, that's just what happens to us.

2769
02:27:21,160 --> 02:27:24,560
Speaker 4: That's it's fine, right, And it's interesting too because like

2770
02:27:24,600 --> 02:27:30,160
Speaker 4: this idea of of you know, being a Western outpost,

2771
02:27:30,879 --> 02:27:34,080
Speaker 4: an outpost for Western values is not like that is

2772
02:27:34,200 --> 02:27:40,879
Speaker 4: very much falling into the almost the whiteness thing of

2773
02:27:40,959 --> 02:27:44,440
Speaker 4: Europeans where you kind of like because Jews, like European

2774
02:27:44,440 --> 02:27:49,039
Speaker 4: Afy Semitism wasn't about how Jews had Western values. It

2775
02:27:49,120 --> 02:27:52,440
Speaker 4: was about how Jews represented this other, this this thing

2776
02:27:52,560 --> 02:27:54,840
Speaker 4: that you know, they don't they didn't share values. There

2777
02:27:54,879 --> 02:27:59,160
Speaker 4: were some weird other thing and you know, this was

2778
02:27:59,240 --> 02:28:03,560
Speaker 4: not the the charge of anti Semitism in Europe. And

2779
02:28:03,600 --> 02:28:07,160
Speaker 4: now with like Israeli propaganda towards you know that's aimed

2780
02:28:07,200 --> 02:28:12,160
Speaker 4: towards conservative Westerners, they're like, no, no, we're the most Western,

2781
02:28:12,360 --> 02:28:14,920
Speaker 4: like we're so Western that we're gonna be the ones

2782
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:18,760
Speaker 4: who are on the front lines stopping the evil, you know,

2783
02:28:18,959 --> 02:28:23,200
Speaker 4: Arab ports. And yeah, but it's like the that's interesting,

2784
02:28:23,360 --> 02:28:25,840
Speaker 4: you know in some aspects, but it's the liberal stuff.

2785
02:28:26,240 --> 02:28:31,320
Speaker 4: Sureen liberal hasbara is where the lies get so wild,

2786
02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:34,640
Speaker 4: Like that's the stuff that I grew up with.

2787
02:28:34,840 --> 02:28:39,920
Speaker 9: You know, yeah, no, it really the pink washing in

2788
02:28:39,920 --> 02:28:42,600
Speaker 9: particular is like one of yes, it's just they're they're

2789
02:28:42,640 --> 02:28:47,640
Speaker 9: so egregious in their use of using like the gay

2790
02:28:47,680 --> 02:28:50,480
Speaker 9: struggle for their own agenda. It's really really gross.

2791
02:28:51,080 --> 02:28:55,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's and it's weird at how effective it

2792
02:28:55,680 --> 02:28:58,440
Speaker 4: is or how effective it has been for so long,

2793
02:28:58,600 --> 02:29:01,119
Speaker 4: because it is something that I think. I think it's

2794
02:29:01,200 --> 02:29:04,600
Speaker 4: kind of like the first stop on the Hasbaratri. You know,

2795
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:07,959
Speaker 4: when you are hearing someone kind of like talking about

2796
02:29:07,959 --> 02:29:10,320
Speaker 4: why we need to stand with Israel, they will start

2797
02:29:10,640 --> 02:29:15,240
Speaker 4: right there with the you know, the pro gay rights stuff.

2798
02:29:15,760 --> 02:29:18,840
Speaker 4: And it's like, the reason I find it interesting is

2799
02:29:18,879 --> 02:29:25,160
Speaker 4: like Israel's so effectively been able to like brand itself

2800
02:29:25,160 --> 02:29:28,280
Speaker 4: as representing and supporting all these positive liberal traits. Well,

2801
02:29:28,720 --> 02:29:31,440
Speaker 4: well a lot of it is just not true. Like,

2802
02:29:31,520 --> 02:29:34,879
Speaker 4: for example, liberals are pro LGBT rights, right, you know,

2803
02:29:35,120 --> 02:29:39,080
Speaker 4: they they love gays, they love gay rights, and that's

2804
02:29:39,120 --> 02:29:42,480
Speaker 4: a good thing, of course, and yet gay marriage is

2805
02:29:42,520 --> 02:29:46,640
Speaker 4: illegal in Israel. It is illegal. It's also a mixed

2806
02:29:46,680 --> 02:29:51,120
Speaker 4: faith marriages are also illegal in Israel. They will recognize

2807
02:29:51,160 --> 02:29:54,120
Speaker 4: those marriages, but they will not perform them. You cannot

2808
02:29:54,120 --> 02:29:57,520
Speaker 4: get gay married, you cannot get interfaith married in Israel.

2809
02:29:57,879 --> 02:30:01,720
Speaker 4: If you're there performed abroad then and they will recognize them.

2810
02:30:01,800 --> 02:30:06,199
Speaker 4: That's kind of the loophole. Also, by the way, Palestinians

2811
02:30:06,240 --> 02:30:08,640
Speaker 4: from the West Bank or Gaza who Mariyan Israeli citizen

2812
02:30:08,800 --> 02:30:12,760
Speaker 4: cannot then get Israeli citizenship through that marriage. You also

2813
02:30:12,840 --> 02:30:16,800
Speaker 4: can't get Israeli citizenship if you marry in Israeli and

2814
02:30:16,879 --> 02:30:21,320
Speaker 4: you are from a quote enemy state that read Arab.

2815
02:30:21,480 --> 02:30:23,920
Speaker 4: If you want to know what the enemy states are,

2816
02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:28,959
Speaker 4: they mean Arabs. So you know, I don't know. Liberals

2817
02:30:28,959 --> 02:30:33,000
Speaker 4: should hate that. They should look at that and be like, well,

2818
02:30:33,800 --> 02:30:37,200
Speaker 4: I don't like that, you'd think, right. Another example, like

2819
02:30:37,360 --> 02:30:42,200
Speaker 4: liberals love democracy and they hate racism, yet believe Israel

2820
02:30:42,440 --> 02:30:45,520
Speaker 4: when they say they are a democracy, because they'll be like,

2821
02:30:45,560 --> 02:30:49,000
Speaker 4: we have you know, twenty percent Arab Muslim population, you know,

2822
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:54,160
Speaker 4: two million and all with the right to vote. Meanwhile,

2823
02:30:54,240 --> 02:30:57,720
Speaker 4: they're like ignoring the five point three million Palestinians who

2824
02:30:57,760 --> 02:31:00,440
Speaker 4: are currently living in the West Bank and Gaza under

2825
02:31:00,600 --> 02:31:04,560
Speaker 4: military control by Israel. Like this is a situation was

2826
02:31:04,680 --> 02:31:09,199
Speaker 4: which has explicitly been called apartheid by most major human

2827
02:31:09,280 --> 02:31:13,640
Speaker 4: rights organizations, you know, human Rights Watch and it's the International,

2828
02:31:13,920 --> 02:31:18,360
Speaker 4: the International Federation for Human Rights, and even including Human

2829
02:31:18,440 --> 02:31:22,240
Speaker 4: Rights orgs in Israel, yesh Din and but sell them.

2830
02:31:22,320 --> 02:31:26,240
Speaker 4: They have all called this an apartheid state, and apartheid

2831
02:31:26,320 --> 02:31:30,440
Speaker 4: to you know, to be clear, is racist and I'm

2832
02:31:30,480 --> 02:31:33,320
Speaker 4: against it, yes, and I think most liberals would say

2833
02:31:33,320 --> 02:31:36,520
Speaker 4: they're against it. Don't you think sharam like something you

2834
02:31:36,560 --> 02:31:39,320
Speaker 4: would hope. So that's kind of like part of the

2835
02:31:39,480 --> 02:31:47,320
Speaker 4: thing with the liberal You're like, I don't like bad people, right, yeah, yeah,

2836
02:31:47,480 --> 02:31:50,600
Speaker 4: but you know it's it's once again, it's this thing

2837
02:31:50,640 --> 02:31:52,840
Speaker 4: where we're willing to be like, oh, they say they're

2838
02:31:52,840 --> 02:31:57,520
Speaker 4: a democracy, and therefore I believe it, and I think

2839
02:31:57,600 --> 02:32:00,920
Speaker 4: it's you know, you have to remember that like Israel's

2840
02:32:01,480 --> 02:32:05,280
Speaker 4: got like a caveat for all this stuff. It's usually

2841
02:32:05,280 --> 02:32:09,280
Speaker 4: they'll say, you know, their credentials are touted with this

2842
02:32:09,560 --> 02:32:13,520
Speaker 4: like in the Middle East, the most gay friendly in

2843
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:16,480
Speaker 4: the Middle East, or the only democracy in the Middle East.

2844
02:32:16,760 --> 02:32:18,760
Speaker 4: But like, once again, that kind of only serves to

2845
02:32:19,000 --> 02:32:23,119
Speaker 4: implicitly condemn those enemy states you know, filled with Arabs,

2846
02:32:23,160 --> 02:32:26,760
Speaker 4: is being racist and backwards and homophobic and anti democratic

2847
02:32:26,800 --> 02:32:31,000
Speaker 4: and therefore unworthy of liberal sympathies. So it's you know,

2848
02:32:31,040 --> 02:32:33,640
Speaker 4: you liberals will look at it and they'll go like, well,

2849
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:39,480
Speaker 4: I mean compared to Iraq, and you know they of course,

2850
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:44,959
Speaker 4: it's like forgetting why the Middle East is the way

2851
02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:47,840
Speaker 4: the Middle East is. You know, they they will there's

2852
02:32:47,879 --> 02:32:50,800
Speaker 4: a complete like vacuum, like everything exists in a vacuum

2853
02:32:50,800 --> 02:32:53,800
Speaker 4: when it comes to American imperialism. So you don't but

2854
02:32:54,080 --> 02:32:57,800
Speaker 4: you just want to believe that Arabs are backwards people

2855
02:32:58,320 --> 02:33:02,960
Speaker 4: rather than looking at any kind of like Western imperial complicity.

2856
02:33:03,360 --> 02:33:07,800
Speaker 9: But also like reinforcing this like racist backwards stereotype also

2857
02:33:08,800 --> 02:33:12,080
Speaker 9: like dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians to such a

2858
02:33:12,120 --> 02:33:15,080
Speaker 9: degree where people can't overlook genocide. Now, you know, like

2859
02:33:15,160 --> 02:33:15,520
Speaker 9: it's all.

2860
02:33:15,520 --> 02:33:17,880
Speaker 4: Part of that, it's all part of that.

2861
02:33:18,240 --> 02:33:21,440
Speaker 9: Yes, they're different, they're not like us. They don't like

2862
02:33:21,560 --> 02:33:24,520
Speaker 9: gay people, they don't women stand up or whatever the

2863
02:33:24,520 --> 02:33:27,240
Speaker 9: fuck it is. It's just like it's it really is

2864
02:33:27,280 --> 02:33:30,120
Speaker 9: infuriating because you wonder, like how can this happen? It's

2865
02:33:30,120 --> 02:33:32,520
Speaker 9: because of little stuff like this that's not very little

2866
02:33:32,520 --> 02:33:34,920
Speaker 9: when it's all together, and it just reinforces this like

2867
02:33:35,440 --> 02:33:39,039
Speaker 9: barbaric trope, and then people just go on their go

2868
02:33:39,120 --> 02:33:43,760
Speaker 9: about their lives being okay with genocide because today these

2869
02:33:43,760 --> 02:33:44,920
Speaker 9: people are human anymore.

2870
02:33:45,560 --> 02:33:49,600
Speaker 4: Right, you look at this like as part of a

2871
02:33:49,640 --> 02:33:57,200
Speaker 4: pattern of like the delegitimization of the Arab being. In

2872
02:33:57,240 --> 02:34:00,000
Speaker 4: a way, it's like all of this is a pattern

2873
02:34:00,160 --> 02:34:03,880
Speaker 4: of like, what are things we can say about Arabs

2874
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:09,000
Speaker 4: in order to make them so far from us that

2875
02:34:10,040 --> 02:34:13,720
Speaker 4: you just don't care if they live or die? Or

2876
02:34:14,120 --> 02:34:17,359
Speaker 4: more so you you more, you're more willing to believe

2877
02:34:17,959 --> 02:34:21,240
Speaker 4: that the people who are like us, the Israelis, are

2878
02:34:21,760 --> 02:34:24,600
Speaker 4: the ones telling the truth that they're you know, they're

2879
02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:28,400
Speaker 4: the ones who have the empathy. They're the ones who

2880
02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:34,000
Speaker 4: you know, let women you know, sit wherever they want,

2881
02:34:34,040 --> 02:34:38,920
Speaker 4: whatever the fuck that meant from BB's speech, But like,

2882
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:42,880
Speaker 4: you know, they're more like me Arabs. I don't know them,

2883
02:34:43,120 --> 02:34:46,160
Speaker 4: and I guess, you know, if they say they're bad,

2884
02:34:46,360 --> 02:34:48,680
Speaker 4: they're bad. You know, it's it's just part of it.

2885
02:34:48,720 --> 02:34:50,920
Speaker 4: And I think what pisses me off about it is

2886
02:34:51,959 --> 02:34:56,280
Speaker 4: the liberal willingness to believe it. And I think it's like,

2887
02:34:57,240 --> 02:35:01,480
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's fascinating to me because especially right now,

2888
02:35:01,560 --> 02:35:04,240
Speaker 4: in the last you know, four months or so of

2889
02:35:04,280 --> 02:35:11,160
Speaker 4: this brutal incursion into Gaza, it's like so clearly illustrates

2890
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:15,240
Speaker 4: why people on the left fucking hate liberals. You know,

2891
02:35:15,920 --> 02:35:20,160
Speaker 4: they're just so easy to manipulate if you know the

2892
02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:24,280
Speaker 4: right words. You know, like if it were any other group,

2893
02:35:24,920 --> 02:35:29,439
Speaker 4: if it were any other group instead of Jewish nation nationalists,

2894
02:35:29,480 --> 02:35:33,760
Speaker 4: like if it were Christian nationalists, they'd be like clearly

2895
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:39,640
Speaker 4: condemning it, clearly. Like liberals have such a facile identity

2896
02:35:39,840 --> 02:35:44,680
Speaker 4: and race essentialism that they either excuse the crimes committed

2897
02:35:44,840 --> 02:35:47,800
Speaker 4: by the Jewish state because Israel asked them to do

2898
02:35:47,879 --> 02:35:50,920
Speaker 4: it and they want to be like good allies or whatever,

2899
02:35:51,040 --> 02:35:53,960
Speaker 4: or they ignore them because well, it's not my place

2900
02:35:54,040 --> 02:35:57,160
Speaker 4: to say I'm not Jewish. I feel like I should like,

2901
02:35:57,160 --> 02:36:00,240
Speaker 4: like they're just so squishy it like it. It kind

2902
02:36:00,240 --> 02:36:03,760
Speaker 4: of reveals the modern American liberal for what they are,

2903
02:36:03,760 --> 02:36:06,160
Speaker 4: which is like a tiny baby whose self perception is

2904
02:36:06,240 --> 02:36:07,760
Speaker 4: at the root of their ideology.

2905
02:36:07,920 --> 02:36:08,120
Speaker 6: Right.

2906
02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:08,920
Speaker 5: Uh.

2907
02:36:09,120 --> 02:36:13,240
Speaker 4: And it's just it's important to remember that Europeans doing

2908
02:36:13,240 --> 02:36:18,959
Speaker 4: atrocities to indigenous populations has always come with the gift

2909
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:23,160
Speaker 4: wrapping of these savages don't share our values. It's always

2910
02:36:23,320 --> 02:36:25,560
Speaker 4: been like that. So when you see an Israeli soldier

2911
02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:29,560
Speaker 4: flying a Pride flag in the rubble of a raised

2912
02:36:29,680 --> 02:36:35,800
Speaker 4: Palestinian city. Like just remember that's not liberation, that is

2913
02:36:36,160 --> 02:36:41,959
Speaker 4: regular ass by the book colonialism, same shit, you know

2914
02:36:41,959 --> 02:36:42,440
Speaker 4: what I mean?

2915
02:36:42,760 --> 02:36:45,840
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I mean I still am loving the description

2916
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:48,160
Speaker 9: of an American liberal as a tiny baby.

2917
02:36:48,600 --> 02:36:53,000
Speaker 4: There are little babies. There's little tiny babies. You got,

2918
02:36:53,040 --> 02:36:57,240
Speaker 4: They've got they can only hold like one sort of

2919
02:36:57,280 --> 02:37:00,920
Speaker 4: political critique in their mind at once, and you know,

2920
02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:06,800
Speaker 4: if they choose this kind of like identity essentialism, then

2921
02:37:06,840 --> 02:37:09,879
Speaker 4: it's so much easier to just kind of go like, hey,

2922
02:37:10,000 --> 02:37:12,879
Speaker 4: you know, I don't really think it's my place to

2923
02:37:12,920 --> 02:37:16,240
Speaker 4: talk about this right now exactly.

2924
02:37:16,400 --> 02:37:19,360
Speaker 9: It's just it's cowardly and like in retrospect, they're probably

2925
02:37:19,360 --> 02:37:21,280
Speaker 9: going to change their story about what their stance was,

2926
02:37:21,360 --> 02:37:22,920
Speaker 9: like you know what I mean, And it's just yes,

2927
02:37:23,000 --> 02:37:25,320
Speaker 9: it's really infuriating, and I think it is important to

2928
02:37:25,360 --> 02:37:29,000
Speaker 9: remember that what you're watching is reel Do and what

2929
02:37:29,040 --> 02:37:31,480
Speaker 9: it has done for the past seventy five years, over

2930
02:37:31,520 --> 02:37:34,879
Speaker 9: seventy five years, is just colonialism, and it was described

2931
02:37:34,879 --> 02:37:37,520
Speaker 9: that way since the beginning. But that was that was

2932
02:37:37,560 --> 02:37:40,640
Speaker 9: really Thank you for explaining all of that, Matt.

2933
02:37:40,720 --> 02:37:43,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know there will be more, uh. In

2934
02:37:43,560 --> 02:37:46,560
Speaker 4: part two, we'll get down to some of these myths.

2935
02:37:46,680 --> 02:37:50,120
Speaker 4: We'll get down to the way in which hasbar kind

2936
02:37:50,120 --> 02:37:54,520
Speaker 4: of works to invert narratives to a degree that you know,

2937
02:37:54,720 --> 02:37:58,840
Speaker 4: are almost so shocking that you have trouble believing the

2938
02:37:59,080 --> 02:38:03,720
Speaker 4: historical truth and are more comfortable believing the ahistorical fiction.

2939
02:38:04,240 --> 02:38:08,440
Speaker 4: But surine, what do we do now? Plugs? Or yeah?

2940
02:38:08,480 --> 02:38:09,080
Speaker 4: What do I say?

2941
02:38:09,280 --> 02:38:12,560
Speaker 9: Commercial breaks? That's the end of part one. You did

2942
02:38:12,600 --> 02:38:13,240
Speaker 9: a great job.

2943
02:38:13,920 --> 02:38:16,920
Speaker 4: Thank you. That's listen. I've never guess hosted a thing

2944
02:38:16,920 --> 02:38:19,039
Speaker 4: here on cool Zone Media, but I'm very happy too.

2945
02:38:19,640 --> 02:38:24,240
Speaker 4: And if you like you know me obviously you know,

2946
02:38:24,680 --> 02:38:27,440
Speaker 4: listen about as Barrow, the World's Most Moral podcast. If

2947
02:38:27,440 --> 02:38:30,440
Speaker 4: you like me and my wife, we're going to be

2948
02:38:30,480 --> 02:38:34,160
Speaker 4: at the Sacramento Punchline March seventeenth at seven pm. That's

2949
02:38:34,200 --> 02:38:38,840
Speaker 4: a Sunday. We're headlining together. I mean, you know, co headlining.

2950
02:38:38,920 --> 02:38:41,440
Speaker 4: So I'll go up, she'll go. But it's really good.

2951
02:38:41,480 --> 02:38:43,480
Speaker 4: It's a really good show. We did it in San Francisco.

2952
02:38:43,560 --> 02:38:47,440
Speaker 4: Is so much fun. Please come out to it March seventeenth.

2953
02:38:47,480 --> 02:38:51,640
Speaker 4: That's Sunday, March seventeenth, Sacramento Punchline. Come see Matt Leeb

2954
02:38:51,800 --> 02:38:52,600
Speaker 4: Francisca Hearing.

2955
02:38:53,040 --> 02:38:55,959
Speaker 9: Where can people follow you don't know, they should if.

2956
02:38:55,920 --> 02:38:59,280
Speaker 4: You don't know, at matt Leeb on Twitter, at mett

2957
02:38:59,360 --> 02:39:03,720
Speaker 4: leib jokes on Instagram, and uh yeah, check me out.

2958
02:39:04,440 --> 02:39:06,400
Speaker 4: I'll post all the dates and stuff over there, and

2959
02:39:06,440 --> 02:39:07,840
Speaker 4: all the podcasts over there too.

2960
02:39:08,120 --> 02:39:08,600
Speaker 9: Awesome.

2961
02:39:09,120 --> 02:39:10,280
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, great job.

2962
02:39:10,720 --> 02:39:31,879
Speaker 11: Okay, goodbye, bye, Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here.

2963
02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:36,680
Speaker 4: I am your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with

2964
02:39:37,320 --> 02:39:39,720
Speaker 4: Charene Unis. What's up, Cheren?

2965
02:39:41,000 --> 02:39:44,120
Speaker 9: Nothing? This this is, this is this is what's no?

2966
02:39:44,320 --> 02:39:46,959
Speaker 9: I happy to happy to be back. Hopefully you guys

2967
02:39:46,959 --> 02:39:50,280
Speaker 9: listen to part one already of math. Yeah, really cool

2968
02:39:50,560 --> 02:39:52,720
Speaker 9: little series we got going on here. But if you

2969
02:39:52,760 --> 02:39:57,080
Speaker 9: haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing this.

2970
02:39:57,720 --> 02:40:05,320
Speaker 4: Haspara this journey. Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no Man. Yeah.

2971
02:40:05,360 --> 02:40:09,160
Speaker 4: So this is part two of this series about Hisbara

2972
02:40:09,840 --> 02:40:15,600
Speaker 4: once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and

2973
02:40:15,760 --> 02:40:20,080
Speaker 4: we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda,

2974
02:40:20,120 --> 02:40:23,240
Speaker 4: but so much more so. We're going to talk a

2975
02:40:23,280 --> 02:40:26,360
Speaker 4: little bit about the myths about Israel that have kind

2976
02:40:26,400 --> 02:40:31,680
Speaker 4: of like gained a foothold in Western public consciousness to

2977
02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:35,080
Speaker 4: a degree that it's like not just a foothold, but

2978
02:40:35,120 --> 02:40:39,400
Speaker 4: it's just kind of things that we commonly think are facts.

2979
02:40:40,080 --> 02:40:43,200
Speaker 4: So like, if you grew up in Zionism, which is

2980
02:40:43,240 --> 02:40:45,560
Speaker 4: like if you don't know that's a political ideology that

2981
02:40:45,720 --> 02:40:48,680
Speaker 4: birth the state of Israel, you have probably heard a

2982
02:40:48,680 --> 02:40:52,080
Speaker 4: lot of your teachers, your rabbis, your friends, your family,

2983
02:40:53,000 --> 02:40:56,640
Speaker 4: your Israeli friends, your Israeli family talking about how it's

2984
02:40:56,680 --> 02:41:01,280
Speaker 4: your responsibility to explain Israel to the people, and growing

2985
02:41:01,360 --> 02:41:05,199
Speaker 4: up you don't actually know that what you're doing is propaganda,

2986
02:41:05,800 --> 02:41:09,240
Speaker 4: Like you think you're just you know that you know

2987
02:41:09,360 --> 02:41:12,680
Speaker 4: more than most people because everyone else is getting their

2988
02:41:12,720 --> 02:41:17,520
Speaker 4: information from anti Semites. You know, you think like you've

2989
02:41:17,560 --> 02:41:21,440
Speaker 4: got the real scoop and that most people are just

2990
02:41:22,720 --> 02:41:27,720
Speaker 4: you know, born ignorant and biased against Jews. And you

2991
02:41:27,720 --> 02:41:30,280
Speaker 4: don't have to be Jewish to have been exposed to espara.

2992
02:41:30,680 --> 02:41:33,039
Speaker 4: Chances are that if you grew up in the West,

2993
02:41:33,160 --> 02:41:36,120
Speaker 4: you probably hold several views about Israel that are the

2994
02:41:36,240 --> 02:41:39,600
Speaker 4: result of decades long pr campaigns. So what I'm going

2995
02:41:39,640 --> 02:41:42,840
Speaker 4: to do now is a lightning round of myth busting.

2996
02:41:43,560 --> 02:41:47,840
Speaker 4: This is just like real quick getting into some of

2997
02:41:47,879 --> 02:41:51,800
Speaker 4: the I don't know some of the most pervasive things

2998
02:41:51,840 --> 02:41:56,160
Speaker 4: that I think each one could be an entire episode.

2999
02:41:56,240 --> 02:41:58,720
Speaker 4: But you know, listen, this is your guys, pot this

3000
02:41:58,760 --> 02:42:02,280
Speaker 4: isn't my podcast. I can't just take it away from you.

3001
02:42:02,320 --> 02:42:04,320
Speaker 4: So I'm just going to do a lightning round with you.

3002
02:42:04,600 --> 02:42:05,520
Speaker 4: Are you ready, Sharen?

3003
02:42:06,120 --> 02:42:07,520
Speaker 9: Oh, bored? Ready, Let's do it.

3004
02:42:07,560 --> 02:42:12,400
Speaker 4: Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for

3005
02:42:12,480 --> 02:42:16,840
Speaker 4: a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I

3006
02:42:16,840 --> 02:42:19,280
Speaker 4: don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and

3007
02:42:19,440 --> 02:42:23,600
Speaker 4: seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled in nineteen forty eight.

3008
02:42:24,160 --> 02:42:27,160
Speaker 4: This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds

3009
02:42:27,200 --> 02:42:30,360
Speaker 4: of years. It is very very modern, and it has

3010
02:42:30,440 --> 02:42:34,040
Speaker 4: nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when

3011
02:42:34,040 --> 02:42:37,560
Speaker 4: someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands

3012
02:42:37,600 --> 02:42:41,840
Speaker 4: of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that

3013
02:42:42,000 --> 02:42:45,400
Speaker 4: is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough

3014
02:42:45,440 --> 02:42:49,400
Speaker 4: neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is

3015
02:42:49,560 --> 02:42:54,039
Speaker 4: just regular ass racism and orientalism. The idea that they

3016
02:42:54,320 --> 02:42:57,200
Speaker 4: just you know, you have to be tough, you know,

3017
02:42:57,280 --> 02:43:01,400
Speaker 4: I mean, listen, a tough neighborhood is very much that

3018
02:43:01,560 --> 02:43:04,640
Speaker 4: is translated for an American a white American audience. You

3019
02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:07,480
Speaker 4: know what I mean, what is a tough neighborhood. It's

3020
02:43:07,520 --> 02:43:11,320
Speaker 4: one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one.

3021
02:43:11,560 --> 02:43:14,640
Speaker 4: There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just

3022
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:19,080
Speaker 4: go there again? This is a weird, racist, dehumanizing thing

3023
02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:22,880
Speaker 4: to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like where

3024
02:43:22,959 --> 02:43:25,880
Speaker 4: you know, whenever you see them, like doing a big

3025
02:43:25,959 --> 02:43:29,440
Speaker 4: zoom ount where they go, Like there's only one Jewish

3026
02:43:29,480 --> 02:43:31,560
Speaker 4: state and there's all these Arab states. You know, it's

3027
02:43:31,560 --> 02:43:35,240
Speaker 4: like no, no, no, personally, what happened here? Don't don't

3028
02:43:35,320 --> 02:43:40,320
Speaker 4: you know? It's like you guy had house, Army took house,

3029
02:43:41,080 --> 02:43:45,360
Speaker 4: moved him to other area. That is wrong, period. You

3030
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:50,520
Speaker 4: can't just say go to another Arab country. That's that's

3031
02:43:50,560 --> 02:43:55,039
Speaker 4: just racism. Here's another one. It's too complicated. No, it

3032
02:43:55,120 --> 02:44:00,240
Speaker 4: is not. Switch the rolls in your head. Use your

3033
02:44:00,240 --> 02:44:04,440
Speaker 4: brain for a second. Switch the roles of Jews and

3034
02:44:04,520 --> 02:44:07,360
Speaker 4: Palestinians in your head, and you'll have an easier time

3035
02:44:07,400 --> 02:44:13,080
Speaker 4: condemning the side that has powerful government and army whose

3036
02:44:13,200 --> 02:44:18,760
Speaker 4: crimes include genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash.

3037
02:44:18,840 --> 02:44:23,440
Speaker 4: Racist settler terrorism. That is not complicated. If it were

3038
02:44:23,480 --> 02:44:28,039
Speaker 4: the Jews who lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you

3039
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:31,720
Speaker 4: would not have a problem saying what was happening was genocide.

3040
02:44:31,959 --> 02:44:35,879
Speaker 4: You just wouldn't just do that in your head. All right,

3041
02:44:35,920 --> 02:44:39,879
Speaker 4: here's another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No,

3042
02:44:40,000 --> 02:44:46,199
Speaker 4: it's fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement.

3043
02:44:46,840 --> 02:44:49,400
Speaker 4: That is something that was made explicitly clear by the

3044
02:44:49,440 --> 02:44:53,280
Speaker 4: creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like

3045
02:44:53,520 --> 02:44:57,840
Speaker 4: settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab

3046
02:44:57,920 --> 02:45:03,640
Speaker 4: occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous

3047
02:45:03,640 --> 02:45:08,160
Speaker 4: they God, it just pisses me off. And also the

3048
02:45:08,200 --> 02:45:12,320
Speaker 4: indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in

3049
02:45:12,400 --> 02:45:15,440
Speaker 4: general when people go back and forth about who is

3050
02:45:15,440 --> 02:45:19,400
Speaker 4: indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing

3051
02:45:19,920 --> 02:45:23,360
Speaker 4: and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it

3052
02:45:23,480 --> 02:45:27,040
Speaker 4: is just Palestinians being like, I want to be able

3053
02:45:27,040 --> 02:45:28,960
Speaker 4: to vote, I want to have my house back. I

3054
02:45:29,040 --> 02:45:31,520
Speaker 4: literally have the key to my house. And yes, many

3055
02:45:31,560 --> 02:45:33,680
Speaker 4: of them literally still have the keys to their house.

3056
02:45:33,920 --> 02:45:39,519
Speaker 4: All right, there's there's so many, there's so many goddamn

3057
02:45:39,560 --> 02:45:42,960
Speaker 4: myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started

3058
02:45:42,959 --> 02:45:46,480
Speaker 4: a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like

3059
02:45:46,600 --> 02:45:48,320
Speaker 4: much of the stuff that you take for granted as

3060
02:45:48,400 --> 02:45:52,039
Speaker 4: fact is not only a historic but like wildly so.

3061
02:45:53,000 --> 02:45:59,280
Speaker 4: Like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the

3062
02:45:59,280 --> 02:46:02,680
Speaker 4: war forty eight. That is literally they say the opposite

3063
02:46:03,360 --> 02:46:05,520
Speaker 4: in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the

3064
02:46:05,560 --> 02:46:09,120
Speaker 4: creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the

3065
02:46:09,160 --> 02:46:13,080
Speaker 4: Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened were

3066
02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:15,000
Speaker 4: not just that all the Arab states attacked, but that

3067
02:46:15,440 --> 02:46:20,359
Speaker 4: Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies.

3068
02:46:20,959 --> 02:46:24,240
Speaker 4: The Arab armies that were in this fight are far

3069
02:46:24,320 --> 02:46:26,680
Speaker 4: fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's

3070
02:46:26,720 --> 02:46:29,520
Speaker 4: like seven, it was more like four, and only three

3071
02:46:29,560 --> 02:46:32,240
Speaker 4: of them. Only one of them had any sort of

3072
02:46:32,320 --> 02:46:36,400
Speaker 4: like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies.

3073
02:46:37,600 --> 02:46:42,440
Speaker 4: And also they outnumbered the IDEF outnumbered these armies in

3074
02:46:42,520 --> 02:46:45,680
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Israel attacked first in

3075
02:46:45,760 --> 02:46:48,800
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive strike, like famously

3076
02:46:49,240 --> 02:46:52,480
Speaker 4: and yet the you know, once again, the narrative around

3077
02:46:52,920 --> 02:46:56,880
Speaker 4: the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War is that, you know,

3078
02:46:57,000 --> 02:47:00,720
Speaker 4: Israel mining its own business and then Egypt along with

3079
02:47:00,720 --> 02:47:06,440
Speaker 4: the people Arabs. Yeah, evil Arabs attacked. The Israeli army

3080
02:47:06,560 --> 02:47:09,800
Speaker 4: struck first. That is a fact that they talk about.

3081
02:47:09,959 --> 02:47:14,280
Speaker 4: And there's it's also very very much disputed as to

3082
02:47:14,720 --> 02:47:19,160
Speaker 4: whether or not the Egyptian army was going to attack

3083
02:47:19,320 --> 02:47:22,879
Speaker 4: at all. But you know, there's no room for that

3084
02:47:23,000 --> 02:47:26,800
Speaker 4: narrative because it, you know, fucks up the the glorious

3085
02:47:26,840 --> 02:47:31,320
Speaker 4: story of what became the occupation of the West Bank

3086
02:47:31,360 --> 02:47:36,320
Speaker 4: and Gaza. Another one a whod Barack absolutely did not

3087
02:47:36,560 --> 02:47:41,200
Speaker 4: offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He did not, Nor

3088
02:47:41,280 --> 02:47:44,400
Speaker 4: did he offer ninety six percent of the West Bank.

3089
02:47:44,640 --> 02:47:49,039
Speaker 4: And no, Israel did not invent the fucking cherry tomato.

3090
02:47:49,520 --> 02:47:53,240
Speaker 4: Wait they did it. No, they did not. There was

3091
02:47:53,879 --> 02:47:56,959
Speaker 4: a Haaretz article about it where they're like, no, we didn't.

3092
02:47:57,320 --> 02:47:59,800
Speaker 4: Why do we keep saying this we didn't do that?

3093
02:48:00,440 --> 02:48:03,240
Speaker 9: Oh my god, that's so funny. No, I mean, so

3094
02:48:03,360 --> 02:48:05,600
Speaker 9: many of these talking points are some of the main

3095
02:48:05,720 --> 02:48:08,080
Speaker 9: arguments that Zionist will use to be like, well, they

3096
02:48:08,120 --> 02:48:10,680
Speaker 9: rejected this and this is what happened here, and it's

3097
02:48:10,680 --> 02:48:16,199
Speaker 9: just like these are all incorrect. You just like regurgitating Hasbara.

3098
02:48:16,360 --> 02:48:19,120
Speaker 4: Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so

3099
02:48:19,640 --> 02:48:23,520
Speaker 4: widely repeated and so often that it just kind of

3100
02:48:23,600 --> 02:48:27,600
Speaker 4: sinks in Huberac did not offer them a state in

3101
02:48:27,680 --> 02:48:31,080
Speaker 4: terms of what you would consider the definition definition of

3102
02:48:31,080 --> 02:48:34,599
Speaker 4: a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy,

3103
02:48:34,720 --> 02:48:38,000
Speaker 4: that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They

3104
02:48:38,000 --> 02:48:41,320
Speaker 4: weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had

3105
02:48:41,400 --> 02:48:44,520
Speaker 4: taken such a large percentage of the of it, and

3106
02:48:44,600 --> 02:48:48,400
Speaker 4: what they were offering was inn even smaller percentage of

3107
02:48:48,680 --> 02:48:53,600
Speaker 4: what they had already taken. And they the thing they

3108
02:48:53,600 --> 02:48:56,120
Speaker 4: were offering again, not a state, not a state, not

3109
02:48:56,200 --> 02:49:02,119
Speaker 4: a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is things

3110
02:49:02,120 --> 02:49:05,080
Speaker 4: people are willing to believe. And that's just that's the

3111
02:49:05,080 --> 02:49:07,240
Speaker 4: whole thing. And again I prefer to say it's the

3112
02:49:07,280 --> 02:49:10,039
Speaker 4: I am rubber, you are a glue tactic, but you

3113
02:49:10,080 --> 02:49:11,199
Speaker 4: know it's the same shit.

3114
02:49:11,720 --> 02:49:11,840
Speaker 6: You know.

3115
02:49:11,920 --> 02:49:16,120
Speaker 4: His Bara likes to invert the victim and the victimizer.

3116
02:49:17,040 --> 02:49:20,480
Speaker 4: And the reason is simple. They know that the West

3117
02:49:20,520 --> 02:49:22,920
Speaker 4: is much more willing to believe that Jews are the

3118
02:49:22,959 --> 02:49:25,400
Speaker 4: victims and Arabs are oppressors.

3119
02:49:25,760 --> 02:49:26,000
Speaker 6: You know.

3120
02:49:26,160 --> 02:49:33,920
Speaker 4: It's just it's playing on Western guilt and complicity in

3121
02:49:33,959 --> 02:49:37,560
Speaker 4: Europe during the Holocaust, and it's playing on kind of

3122
02:49:37,600 --> 02:49:41,360
Speaker 4: liberal sympathies in general. And honestly, it's playing on well,

3123
02:49:41,360 --> 02:49:43,560
Speaker 4: who do you know if you're in the West. If

3124
02:49:43,600 --> 02:49:46,880
Speaker 4: you're in the West, you know some Jews, maybe you

3125
02:49:46,879 --> 02:49:49,840
Speaker 4: don't know Arabs. The Arabs you do know are on

3126
02:49:49,959 --> 02:49:56,480
Speaker 4: TV doing bad, you know, And that is one of

3127
02:49:56,520 --> 02:49:59,920
Speaker 4: the reasons for the effectiveness of it. And in terms

3128
02:49:59,920 --> 02:50:02,680
Speaker 4: of like the inversion of everything, Like I think my

3129
02:50:02,760 --> 02:50:06,879
Speaker 4: favorite example is the is the map, So like Israel

3130
02:50:06,959 --> 02:50:12,400
Speaker 4: will often point to a map of the entire mina

3131
02:50:12,480 --> 02:50:15,520
Speaker 4: region like Middle East North Africa, and they'll highlight all

3132
02:50:15,560 --> 02:50:19,720
Speaker 4: of the Arab countries in green and Israel in blue

3133
02:50:20,320 --> 02:50:23,280
Speaker 4: to show that like, oh, Israel just a tiny is

3134
02:50:23,280 --> 02:50:25,000
Speaker 4: it just a tiny strip of land. It's just a

3135
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:29,240
Speaker 4: small bean, you know, surrounded by big green Arab monsters,

3136
02:50:29,800 --> 02:50:34,360
Speaker 4: and I want to kill Israel like that. Hezbara map will

3137
02:50:34,400 --> 02:50:36,959
Speaker 4: like often include the West Bank and the Gaza strip

3138
02:50:37,080 --> 02:50:40,320
Speaker 4: in green as well, and it's a way to frame

3139
02:50:40,480 --> 02:50:43,160
Speaker 4: the West Bank in Gaza is not just being like this,

3140
02:50:43,480 --> 02:50:47,200
Speaker 4: you know, particular thing. They will be like, No, these

3141
02:50:47,240 --> 02:50:52,360
Speaker 4: are part of the giant invading Arab green monster, because

3142
02:50:52,440 --> 02:50:54,879
Speaker 4: what they're trying to do is show the power imbalance

3143
02:50:54,920 --> 02:50:57,400
Speaker 4: is being completely inverted from the reality here, you know,

3144
02:50:57,480 --> 02:51:01,199
Speaker 4: and anyone, anyone who knows you know, or anyone who's

3145
02:51:01,280 --> 02:51:06,720
Speaker 4: like watched the news, knows that it's ridiculously false to

3146
02:51:07,120 --> 02:51:12,320
Speaker 4: claim that Israel is somehow the less powerful agent here,

3147
02:51:12,600 --> 02:51:15,320
Speaker 4: you know, like you you don't have to have a

3148
02:51:15,360 --> 02:51:21,720
Speaker 4: PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance. Like there's Israel,

3149
02:51:22,280 --> 02:51:27,680
Speaker 4: a modern, you know, well armed military, cutting edge technology,

3150
02:51:28,000 --> 02:51:32,560
Speaker 4: backing and funding of the world's most powerful state, most

3151
02:51:32,560 --> 02:51:36,960
Speaker 4: powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas.

3152
02:51:37,280 --> 02:51:40,520
Speaker 4: That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying,

3153
02:51:40,520 --> 02:51:44,160
Speaker 4: it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know,

3154
02:51:44,280 --> 02:51:48,640
Speaker 4: there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like

3155
02:51:49,400 --> 02:51:52,080
Speaker 4: to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus

3156
02:51:52,200 --> 02:51:54,039
Speaker 4: days have made it perfectly clear that for all the

3157
02:51:54,120 --> 02:51:57,959
Speaker 4: talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's

3158
02:51:58,000 --> 02:52:01,480
Speaker 4: clear Israel could literally genocide Palaestinians in broad daylight in

3159
02:52:01,480 --> 02:52:04,000
Speaker 4: the Arab states who do nothing. There's no giant Arab

3160
02:52:04,080 --> 02:52:08,160
Speaker 4: green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palastinians.

3161
02:52:08,240 --> 02:52:11,440
Speaker 4: Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen

3162
02:52:12,000 --> 02:52:16,200
Speaker 4: and Hasbollah in Lebanon, both of which are non government

3163
02:52:16,640 --> 02:52:19,959
Speaker 4: militant organizations. They are not like, it is not the

3164
02:52:20,000 --> 02:52:25,160
Speaker 4: state of Yemen who is supporting the Palaestinians. It's not

3165
02:52:25,160 --> 02:52:28,360
Speaker 4: the state of Lebanon. It is these militant states within

3166
02:52:28,440 --> 02:52:32,039
Speaker 4: states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you have

3167
02:52:32,040 --> 02:52:34,800
Speaker 4: to remember when Israel claims were just they were a

3168
02:52:34,840 --> 02:52:37,280
Speaker 4: small state the size of New Jersey, you know, in

3169
02:52:37,320 --> 02:52:40,840
Speaker 4: a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know, the

3170
02:52:40,840 --> 02:52:45,640
Speaker 4: West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip of

3171
02:52:45,680 --> 02:52:48,920
Speaker 4: an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not the case.

3172
02:52:49,800 --> 02:52:51,440
Speaker 4: The truth of it is is like you want to

3173
02:52:51,440 --> 02:52:54,480
Speaker 4: talk about how small Israel is, look how small the

3174
02:52:54,560 --> 02:52:58,879
Speaker 4: Gaza strip is, and that you know alone to like

3175
02:52:59,000 --> 02:53:01,880
Speaker 4: look at that pick sure, to know they are surrounded

3176
02:53:02,760 --> 02:53:07,000
Speaker 4: and to see that there's no way out. That I

3177
02:53:07,040 --> 02:53:10,080
Speaker 4: think changes the narrative for people. And it's a narrative

3178
02:53:10,120 --> 02:53:12,600
Speaker 4: that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't like

3179
02:53:12,640 --> 02:53:16,200
Speaker 4: to show the West Bank, and you know, in terms

3180
02:53:16,200 --> 02:53:20,320
Speaker 4: of how it is cut into cantons that are basically

3181
02:53:20,520 --> 02:53:26,400
Speaker 4: everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements in Israeli military.

3182
02:53:27,040 --> 02:53:29,920
Speaker 9: They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know

3183
02:53:29,920 --> 02:53:32,720
Speaker 9: what I mean, Like they really And also I think

3184
02:53:33,160 --> 02:53:36,360
Speaker 9: talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really

3185
02:53:37,200 --> 02:53:39,040
Speaker 9: infuriating to me because I feel like in the last

3186
02:53:39,040 --> 02:53:41,959
Speaker 9: couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks

3187
02:53:42,000 --> 02:53:44,360
Speaker 9: like on a map than ever before. And we see

3188
02:53:44,360 --> 02:53:46,680
Speaker 9: how fucking small it is, and it's described as being

3189
02:53:46,760 --> 02:53:50,200
Speaker 9: five miles at one point, like from the sea to

3190
02:53:50,280 --> 02:53:53,640
Speaker 9: the whatever, and it's still not enough able, you know,

3191
02:53:53,760 --> 02:53:55,800
Speaker 9: it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like

3192
02:53:55,840 --> 02:53:59,360
Speaker 9: it's just even seeing how mini school it is is

3193
02:53:59,400 --> 02:54:03,840
Speaker 9: still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty

3194
02:54:03,879 --> 02:54:06,320
Speaker 9: thousand people dying in this little strip of land.

3195
02:54:06,640 --> 02:54:10,760
Speaker 4: We should think about that, right, Yeah, No, I mean no,

3196
02:54:10,840 --> 02:54:16,320
Speaker 4: it's it is it is. My point is basically to

3197
02:54:16,560 --> 02:54:21,920
Speaker 4: dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has been Israel,

3198
02:54:22,040 --> 02:54:28,279
Speaker 4: small therefore deserves support and people standing with it because small,

3199
02:54:28,400 --> 02:54:33,120
Speaker 4: because it's small, scary because baby puppy because a little

3200
02:54:33,240 --> 02:54:38,800
Speaker 4: little you know, please help, and that visual is just

3201
02:54:38,879 --> 02:54:43,240
Speaker 4: such a it's such a gross lie. And you know,

3202
02:54:43,600 --> 02:54:50,640
Speaker 4: you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know, seem bigger

3203
02:54:50,680 --> 02:54:54,280
Speaker 4: than they are is helpful for Israel. And that's why

3204
02:54:54,280 --> 02:54:57,080
Speaker 4: they do it. You know, this is this is a

3205
02:54:57,120 --> 02:55:01,359
Speaker 4: way to invert the victim and the victimizer. And it's

3206
02:55:01,360 --> 02:55:04,320
Speaker 4: clear as day. Other things that are clear as day,

3207
02:55:04,720 --> 02:55:08,720
Speaker 4: these products and services that we're going to be selling.

3208
02:55:09,000 --> 02:55:25,560
Speaker 4: So stick around, we'll be right back and we're back again.

3209
02:55:26,720 --> 02:55:32,000
Speaker 4: People in the West, by and large, prefer the Israeli explanation.

3210
02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:37,240
Speaker 4: They're fine living in this alternate reality. And you know,

3211
02:55:37,280 --> 02:55:40,240
Speaker 4: people believe it for like a variety of reasons. Some

3212
02:55:40,280 --> 02:55:43,160
Speaker 4: people because they were raised to believe it, some people

3213
02:55:43,200 --> 02:55:46,560
Speaker 4: because they just want to believe it. But I think

3214
02:55:46,600 --> 02:55:50,879
Speaker 4: mostly most people in the West just don't really care

3215
02:55:51,040 --> 02:55:54,000
Speaker 4: enough about like Palestinians to like look into it, like

3216
02:55:54,040 --> 02:55:57,200
Speaker 4: they're you know, they're just it's one of many news

3217
02:55:57,200 --> 02:56:00,000
Speaker 4: stories too. I think a lot of people it's easy

3218
02:56:00,200 --> 02:56:02,320
Speaker 4: to put in a box and to be honest, you know,

3219
02:56:02,520 --> 02:56:07,160
Speaker 4: like wouldn't that be nice to be able to compartmentalize

3220
02:56:07,200 --> 02:56:09,320
Speaker 4: like it would for me. Shit, it would make me

3221
02:56:09,400 --> 02:56:12,840
Speaker 4: way less stressed if I could just not care. And

3222
02:56:12,600 --> 02:56:15,240
Speaker 4: that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care,

3223
02:56:15,840 --> 02:56:19,720
Speaker 4: because I do think that it is absolutely human and

3224
02:56:19,840 --> 02:56:24,080
Speaker 4: valid to have some things that you just don't have

3225
02:56:24,160 --> 02:56:28,120
Speaker 4: emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is

3226
02:56:28,160 --> 02:56:33,760
Speaker 4: not whether or not people are, like, you know, supporting

3227
02:56:33,800 --> 02:56:37,000
Speaker 4: Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is

3228
02:56:37,560 --> 02:56:40,000
Speaker 4: whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to

3229
02:56:40,040 --> 02:56:45,000
Speaker 4: be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because

3230
02:56:45,000 --> 02:56:47,200
Speaker 4: of it. Like if you're if you're not going to

3231
02:56:47,240 --> 02:56:51,040
Speaker 4: say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling

3232
02:56:51,080 --> 02:56:54,080
Speaker 4: about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put

3233
02:56:54,160 --> 02:56:57,240
Speaker 4: in a box. Beyond that, I think there's also no

3234
02:56:57,320 --> 02:56:59,520
Speaker 4: incentive for a lot of people to believe in it.

3235
02:56:59,560 --> 02:57:02,880
Speaker 4: In fact, even question who are the victims and the

3236
02:57:02,959 --> 02:57:08,400
Speaker 4: victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict, like

3237
02:57:09,200 --> 02:57:11,840
Speaker 4: it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most people

3238
02:57:11,879 --> 02:57:14,480
Speaker 4: don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't want

3239
02:57:14,520 --> 02:57:18,800
Speaker 4: to think about that stuff. And it also it people

3240
02:57:19,040 --> 02:57:23,000
Speaker 4: worry about whether or not they're going to get in trouble.

3241
02:57:23,600 --> 02:57:28,160
Speaker 4: And that brings me to another part of this speech

3242
02:57:28,200 --> 02:57:32,600
Speaker 4: I found from the Middle East Policy Council about haspara quote.

3243
02:57:33,120 --> 02:57:37,200
Speaker 4: It also seeks to actively inculcate canons of political correctness

3244
02:57:37,240 --> 02:57:41,000
Speaker 4: in Domesican foreign media and audiences that will promote self

3245
02:57:41,160 --> 02:57:46,160
Speaker 4: censorship by them. It strives thereby to decrease the willingness

3246
02:57:46,520 --> 02:57:51,560
Speaker 4: of audiences to consider information linked to politically unacceptable viewpoints,

3247
02:57:51,879 --> 02:57:56,320
Speaker 4: individuals and groups, and to inhibit the circulation of adverse

3248
02:57:56,360 --> 02:58:00,800
Speaker 4: information and social networks. It focuses on limiting the receptivity

3249
02:58:00,959 --> 02:58:09,200
Speaker 4: of audiences to information. So Hasbar is fucking Orwellian, that is,

3250
02:58:09,400 --> 02:58:12,520
Speaker 4: I think one of the things that interests me about

3251
02:58:12,560 --> 02:58:16,480
Speaker 4: it a lot is how Orwellian it is. You know,

3252
02:58:16,600 --> 02:58:20,640
Speaker 4: it goes beyond mere branding when the Israeli government and

3253
02:58:20,680 --> 02:58:25,520
Speaker 4: pro Israel institutions like so effectively mold the parameters of

3254
02:58:25,560 --> 02:58:28,200
Speaker 4: what is and isn't politically correct, not just like in

3255
02:58:28,240 --> 02:58:31,400
Speaker 4: their own country, but in other countries in the West.

3256
02:58:31,920 --> 02:58:35,400
Speaker 4: Like think about the self censorship that you the listener

3257
02:58:35,800 --> 02:58:39,279
Speaker 4: do around this issue. Think about the times you wanted

3258
02:58:39,320 --> 02:58:42,280
Speaker 4: to say something but didn't because you didn't know the

3259
02:58:42,360 --> 02:58:45,320
Speaker 4: exact right way to say it, you know, like how

3260
02:58:45,840 --> 02:58:47,840
Speaker 4: how to put it, And like, think about the times

3261
02:58:47,840 --> 02:58:50,879
Speaker 4: that you were reading something critical of Israel by someone

3262
02:58:51,120 --> 02:58:54,959
Speaker 4: you trust and agree with, and one sentence or one

3263
02:58:55,000 --> 02:58:59,720
Speaker 4: word or one turn of phrase triggered you into questioning

3264
02:58:59,760 --> 02:59:03,680
Speaker 4: not validity of the thing you were reading, but like

3265
02:59:03,760 --> 02:59:06,959
Speaker 4: the nature of the person who wrote it. Think about

3266
02:59:06,959 --> 02:59:10,280
Speaker 4: your reaction to me saying these things about Israel, and

3267
02:59:10,320 --> 02:59:13,520
Speaker 4: about how you felt when Sharen made a lot of

3268
02:59:13,560 --> 02:59:17,280
Speaker 4: these points on some other episode of this podcast, you know,

3269
02:59:18,000 --> 02:59:23,520
Speaker 4: like think about why that changes things for you. And

3270
02:59:23,640 --> 02:59:27,800
Speaker 4: like there was a time where I was also uncomfortable

3271
02:59:28,440 --> 02:59:31,640
Speaker 4: and like I would only feel comfortable at hearing criticism

3272
02:59:32,040 --> 02:59:35,880
Speaker 4: and doing criticism of Israel in the presence of other Jews,

3273
02:59:36,000 --> 02:59:38,920
Speaker 4: Like it had to be in a you know, private

3274
02:59:39,360 --> 02:59:43,400
Speaker 4: all Jewish Facebook group or in like in person or

3275
02:59:43,440 --> 02:59:47,760
Speaker 4: through text messages. Like I was so suspicious of the

3276
02:59:47,879 --> 02:59:53,440
Speaker 4: secret motives of non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like,

3277
02:59:53,440 --> 02:59:56,760
Speaker 4: like someone could literally say something that I one hundred

3278
02:59:56,800 --> 03:00:00,240
Speaker 4: percent agreed with, something that I myself had said, and

3279
03:00:00,240 --> 03:00:03,240
Speaker 4: then I would still get this icky feeling from them

3280
03:00:03,320 --> 03:00:05,880
Speaker 4: saying it, like yeah, but why are they saying it

3281
03:00:06,000 --> 03:00:10,800
Speaker 4: like why do you care? Like that is probably Hasbara's

3282
03:00:10,840 --> 03:00:15,879
Speaker 4: greatest success to relegate the issue of Palestinian human and

3283
03:00:15,920 --> 03:00:19,400
Speaker 4: civil rights to a niche subject that is best talked

3284
03:00:19,400 --> 03:00:26,039
Speaker 4: about in private and only by Jews. So I mean, Sarene,

3285
03:00:26,080 --> 03:00:30,080
Speaker 4: I know that, Like for you, you've got you get

3286
03:00:30,080 --> 03:00:32,520
Speaker 4: shipped for this, you know, I do.

3287
03:00:32,959 --> 03:00:36,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real

3288
03:00:36,240 --> 03:00:39,160
Speaker 9: life especially and also just like in work. I'm done

3289
03:00:39,240 --> 03:00:43,200
Speaker 9: qualifying whether or not something I say is or is

3290
03:00:43,320 --> 03:00:48,400
Speaker 9: not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea

3291
03:00:48,520 --> 03:00:51,520
Speaker 9: that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire.

3292
03:00:51,600 --> 03:00:54,040
Speaker 9: I don't want to even bring that into I don't

3293
03:00:54,040 --> 03:00:57,400
Speaker 9: want to associate that religion and of course the state

3294
03:00:57,400 --> 03:01:00,680
Speaker 9: of Israel. And I feel like the more we have

3295
03:01:00,840 --> 03:01:04,560
Speaker 9: those disclaimers, the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean,

3296
03:01:05,480 --> 03:01:07,720
Speaker 9: I've had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on

3297
03:01:07,760 --> 03:01:11,879
Speaker 9: the show, almost almost to like show people that like,

3298
03:01:12,320 --> 03:01:14,920
Speaker 9: listen to these people with actual experience.

3299
03:01:15,600 --> 03:01:19,320
Speaker 4: Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know,

3300
03:01:20,840 --> 03:01:24,080
Speaker 4: say you shouldn't. None of this is me saying like, hey,

3301
03:01:24,560 --> 03:01:28,480
Speaker 4: you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or

3302
03:01:28,560 --> 03:01:31,400
Speaker 4: just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning

3303
03:01:31,560 --> 03:01:34,080
Speaker 4: about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there

3304
03:01:34,080 --> 03:01:37,600
Speaker 4: are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the

3305
03:01:37,640 --> 03:01:42,080
Speaker 4: guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti

3306
03:01:42,120 --> 03:01:46,760
Speaker 4: occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down

3307
03:01:46,959 --> 03:01:52,000
Speaker 4: anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to

3308
03:01:52,040 --> 03:01:56,199
Speaker 4: say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even

3309
03:01:56,320 --> 03:02:01,240
Speaker 4: the most conscious of people. Like making zion and Judaism

3310
03:02:01,360 --> 03:02:05,000
Speaker 4: synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his

3311
03:02:05,080 --> 03:02:09,160
Speaker 4: Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as

3312
03:02:09,280 --> 03:02:13,080
Speaker 4: monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who

3313
03:02:13,120 --> 03:02:16,480
Speaker 4: are the exception that proved the rule. You know, like

3314
03:02:16,600 --> 03:02:20,039
Speaker 4: non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they

3315
03:02:20,040 --> 03:02:23,480
Speaker 4: don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't

3316
03:02:23,480 --> 03:02:26,240
Speaker 4: want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like,

3317
03:02:26,720 --> 03:02:30,920
Speaker 4: you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal

3318
03:02:31,000 --> 03:02:33,840
Speaker 4: response to the homosterous attacks of October seventh, there was

3319
03:02:33,840 --> 03:02:37,120
Speaker 4: a big push among his Bars to frame all Jews

3320
03:02:37,160 --> 03:02:40,560
Speaker 4: of the world as feeling abandoned by the left and

3321
03:02:40,640 --> 03:02:44,439
Speaker 4: abandoned by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman,

3322
03:02:44,600 --> 03:02:47,800
Speaker 4: Oh my god, from a stranger walking dumps, I hate

3323
03:02:47,879 --> 03:02:51,280
Speaker 4: him so much. Oh my god, fucking Wooly Willie over

3324
03:02:51,320 --> 03:02:56,960
Speaker 4: here going on Instagram being like, hey, fake woke former friends,

3325
03:02:56,959 --> 03:03:00,440
Speaker 4: and like he gave a speech at the like Stand

3326
03:03:00,480 --> 03:03:04,080
Speaker 4: with Israel March that was something like the Jews don't

3327
03:03:04,120 --> 03:03:09,600
Speaker 4: need you, like presenting the you know, the idea of

3328
03:03:09,600 --> 03:03:13,080
Speaker 4: people criticizing Israel, or like not wanting at the very

3329
03:03:13,160 --> 03:03:18,680
Speaker 4: least not wanting the complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza,

3330
03:03:19,320 --> 03:03:22,800
Speaker 4: framing that as like, oh, well, all the Jews want that,

3331
03:03:23,720 --> 03:03:27,520
Speaker 4: you know, like his whole thing of being like the

3332
03:03:27,600 --> 03:03:32,840
Speaker 4: Jews don't need you, as if he and Israel represented

3333
03:03:32,920 --> 03:03:35,920
Speaker 4: all Jews, like presenting the Jews of the world as

3334
03:03:35,920 --> 03:03:39,360
Speaker 4: a monolith, as if non Zionist or anti Zionist Jews

3335
03:03:39,720 --> 03:03:42,320
Speaker 4: don't even exist, as if we all felt this way,

3336
03:03:42,959 --> 03:03:45,880
Speaker 4: Like you don't want to hate Jews, do you? Of course,

3337
03:03:45,879 --> 03:03:48,600
Speaker 4: if you don't, then you gotta let Israel do whatever

3338
03:03:48,640 --> 03:03:50,039
Speaker 4: the hell it wants.

3339
03:03:49,959 --> 03:03:50,200
Speaker 6: You know.

3340
03:03:50,800 --> 03:03:53,000
Speaker 9: I think what really bothers me about him, I mean

3341
03:03:53,160 --> 03:03:56,240
Speaker 9: everything bothers me about him. But like people like him,

3342
03:03:56,360 --> 03:03:59,960
Speaker 9: they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with, hey, I care

3343
03:04:00,080 --> 03:04:03,880
Speaker 9: about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade.

3344
03:04:03,920 --> 03:04:09,160
Speaker 9: There's ionis bullshit, and it's like, it's just it really

3345
03:04:09,200 --> 03:04:11,280
Speaker 9: boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a

3346
03:04:11,280 --> 03:04:15,160
Speaker 9: good person. I really think that he believes he's a

3347
03:04:15,200 --> 03:04:18,640
Speaker 9: good person, when really he's just a piece of shit

3348
03:04:18,800 --> 03:04:20,840
Speaker 9: that does not see a huge group of people as

3349
03:04:20,920 --> 03:04:21,520
Speaker 9: human beings.

3350
03:04:21,600 --> 03:04:24,080
Speaker 4: Yes, does not see people as human. And this is

3351
03:04:24,080 --> 03:04:28,879
Speaker 4: something that you I think that anyone who's like a

3352
03:04:28,879 --> 03:04:32,440
Speaker 4: self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able

3353
03:04:32,480 --> 03:04:35,680
Speaker 4: to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just

3354
03:04:35,800 --> 03:04:41,320
Speaker 4: it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of

3355
03:04:41,360 --> 03:04:47,480
Speaker 4: this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews

3356
03:04:47,800 --> 03:04:51,600
Speaker 4: are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel.

3357
03:04:51,680 --> 03:04:53,920
Speaker 4: Like they may be like a little bit like liberal

3358
03:04:54,000 --> 03:04:58,080
Speaker 4: Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel,

3359
03:04:58,120 --> 03:05:02,959
Speaker 4: and that is is is not true, and it's it's

3360
03:05:03,000 --> 03:05:07,920
Speaker 4: a way of like more so, it feeds into the

3361
03:05:08,080 --> 03:05:13,200
Speaker 4: continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents

3362
03:05:13,200 --> 03:05:15,960
Speaker 4: all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't.

3363
03:05:15,959 --> 03:05:18,680
Speaker 4: And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't

3364
03:05:18,720 --> 03:05:22,520
Speaker 4: already know. Like I think people know, Zionism is not Judaism.

3365
03:05:22,840 --> 03:05:24,840
Speaker 9: I think you've said that many times on this podcast,

3366
03:05:24,840 --> 03:05:25,320
Speaker 9: trust me.

3367
03:05:25,360 --> 03:05:27,360
Speaker 4: Yea, at this point you should know.

3368
03:05:28,920 --> 03:05:31,720
Speaker 9: If you don't know that by now, please.

3369
03:05:31,800 --> 03:05:37,000
Speaker 4: Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both

3370
03:05:37,040 --> 03:05:40,160
Speaker 4: inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of

3371
03:05:40,240 --> 03:05:42,720
Speaker 4: views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that

3372
03:05:42,840 --> 03:05:46,720
Speaker 4: Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know,

3373
03:05:46,879 --> 03:05:51,800
Speaker 4: support the government at least or support the project of Zionism.

3374
03:05:52,120 --> 03:05:54,600
Speaker 4: But that is like, to me, that's to be expected.

3375
03:05:54,800 --> 03:05:57,480
Speaker 4: It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven,

3376
03:05:57,920 --> 03:06:02,640
Speaker 4: you know. I it weird to not expect the kind

3377
03:06:02,720 --> 03:06:07,000
Speaker 4: of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine to eleven,

3378
03:06:07,040 --> 03:06:09,600
Speaker 4: you know, in fucking America. And I feel like that

3379
03:06:09,720 --> 03:06:12,480
Speaker 4: was the majority of people. Was that kind of like

3380
03:06:12,480 --> 03:06:16,800
Speaker 4: like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not excusing it,

3381
03:06:16,840 --> 03:06:20,560
Speaker 4: but what I'm saying is that Jews have a diverse

3382
03:06:20,920 --> 03:06:23,840
Speaker 4: range of views inside and outside of Israel, and a

3383
03:06:23,879 --> 03:06:26,840
Speaker 4: lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And that's why

3384
03:06:26,879 --> 03:06:31,560
Speaker 4: you see it in these Jewish organizations that are trying

3385
03:06:31,600 --> 03:06:35,160
Speaker 4: to end the occupation. They're trying they are openly critiquing Israel,

3386
03:06:35,200 --> 03:06:38,879
Speaker 4: that are calling Zionism racism. You see it, and you

3387
03:06:38,959 --> 03:06:44,240
Speaker 4: see it because they because we're honestly trying to change

3388
03:06:44,240 --> 03:06:48,280
Speaker 4: this narrative. We're trying to stop people from believing this

3389
03:06:48,400 --> 03:06:52,560
Speaker 4: lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with the state

3390
03:06:52,640 --> 03:06:53,279
Speaker 4: of Israel.

3391
03:06:53,720 --> 03:06:56,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean

3392
03:06:56,760 --> 03:06:59,440
Speaker 9: I've said this many times as well, but Jewish antaisionists

3393
03:06:59,480 --> 03:07:02,480
Speaker 9: are like a very integral part of the movement to

3394
03:07:02,520 --> 03:07:06,440
Speaker 9: liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue,

3395
03:07:06,440 --> 03:07:08,920
Speaker 9: it's not a Muslim issue. It's it's a very human

3396
03:07:09,000 --> 03:07:13,560
Speaker 9: issue to care about people not being fucking genocided.

3397
03:07:13,959 --> 03:07:17,800
Speaker 4: Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the

3398
03:07:17,920 --> 03:07:22,720
Speaker 4: products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. So

3399
03:07:22,800 --> 03:07:26,440
Speaker 4: let's stick around, listen to these ads and we'll be

3400
03:07:26,560 --> 03:07:42,680
Speaker 4: right back. And we're back. So I want to say

3401
03:07:43,480 --> 03:07:49,520
Speaker 4: to everyone listening, I understand that the impulse to treat

3402
03:07:49,520 --> 03:07:53,320
Speaker 4: the subject of Israel with more caution and care. Is

3403
03:07:53,400 --> 03:07:57,200
Speaker 4: rooted in respect for the Jewish people and a desire

3404
03:07:57,280 --> 03:08:02,160
Speaker 4: to stand firmly against anti Semitism, and that is that

3405
03:08:02,280 --> 03:08:05,240
Speaker 4: is a good thing. I encourage that one hundred percent

3406
03:08:06,080 --> 03:08:11,720
Speaker 4: you respecting Jewish people and wanting to stand firmly against

3407
03:08:11,760 --> 03:08:14,520
Speaker 4: anti Semitism, wanting to fight it with every fiber of

3408
03:08:14,560 --> 03:08:17,720
Speaker 4: your being. You are correct and feeling that way, and

3409
03:08:17,760 --> 03:08:20,680
Speaker 4: I want to encourage it. And I also need you

3410
03:08:20,720 --> 03:08:23,920
Speaker 4: to understand that it's for that very reason that I

3411
03:08:24,160 --> 03:08:29,160
Speaker 4: urge people to speak out about Israel, because I believe

3412
03:08:29,240 --> 03:08:33,480
Speaker 4: Israel and there has Baris mouthpieces and the project of

3413
03:08:33,600 --> 03:08:38,800
Speaker 4: political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not in like

3414
03:08:38,879 --> 03:08:42,000
Speaker 4: the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are also semi

3415
03:08:42,080 --> 03:08:44,160
Speaker 4: So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not talking about that.

3416
03:08:44,600 --> 03:08:50,880
Speaker 4: I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish. They actively

3417
03:08:51,240 --> 03:08:56,640
Speaker 4: work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make us distrust

3418
03:08:56,640 --> 03:09:02,279
Speaker 4: our friends, our neighbors, our co work, our fellow Jews.

3419
03:09:02,280 --> 03:09:06,520
Speaker 4: Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews

3420
03:09:06,560 --> 03:09:09,720
Speaker 4: that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews,

3421
03:09:10,080 --> 03:09:13,560
Speaker 4: you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use

3422
03:09:13,600 --> 03:09:18,440
Speaker 4: our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and

3423
03:09:18,680 --> 03:09:23,560
Speaker 4: manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is, it

3424
03:09:23,600 --> 03:09:28,160
Speaker 4: is abuse. It's it's cult shit too, and they even

3425
03:09:28,200 --> 03:09:31,959
Speaker 4: deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to

3426
03:09:31,959 --> 03:09:36,600
Speaker 4: point this out because you see the way that they,

3427
03:09:37,040 --> 03:09:42,080
Speaker 4: the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in

3428
03:09:42,280 --> 03:09:46,000
Speaker 4: order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly,

3429
03:09:46,879 --> 03:09:51,000
Speaker 4: you know, in the last three four months, videos from

3430
03:09:51,040 --> 03:09:55,640
Speaker 4: the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in

3431
03:09:55,720 --> 03:09:58,760
Speaker 4: a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it

3432
03:09:58,840 --> 03:10:02,440
Speaker 4: up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is

3433
03:10:02,520 --> 03:10:05,760
Speaker 4: Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed

3434
03:10:05,760 --> 03:10:08,080
Speaker 4: to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that,

3435
03:10:08,600 --> 03:10:12,279
Speaker 4: and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli

3436
03:10:12,360 --> 03:10:17,760
Speaker 4: soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom.

3437
03:10:17,920 --> 03:10:20,880
Speaker 4: Why is it blown up? And why why is he

3438
03:10:20,959 --> 03:10:26,120
Speaker 4: going through her stuff like that? You stop looking at

3439
03:10:26,160 --> 03:10:29,360
Speaker 4: what is actually happening, and you start looking at what

3440
03:10:30,400 --> 03:10:33,280
Speaker 4: the Hasbaris want you to look at. They want you

3441
03:10:33,360 --> 03:10:36,120
Speaker 4: to see the Hitler thing and go like, oh man,

3442
03:10:36,400 --> 03:10:41,480
Speaker 4: this is a whole society of little Hitlers, and I

3443
03:10:41,800 --> 03:10:44,440
Speaker 4: you know, I look at that and I see the

3444
03:10:44,440 --> 03:10:46,640
Speaker 4: way they cynically use that. While at the same time,

3445
03:10:47,280 --> 03:10:51,960
Speaker 4: you know, Benjamin net Yahoo has been pushing this line

3446
03:10:52,160 --> 03:10:56,160
Speaker 4: claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinian's idea. I mean,

3447
03:10:56,200 --> 03:11:01,360
Speaker 4: this is something that has been gaining more and more

3448
03:11:01,520 --> 03:11:06,920
Speaker 4: traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine, like

3449
03:11:07,000 --> 03:11:09,600
Speaker 4: a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know,

3450
03:11:09,680 --> 03:11:14,440
Speaker 4: the Mufti and is and Hitler meeting up together and

3451
03:11:14,920 --> 03:11:17,360
Speaker 4: being like, have you ever thought about killing the Jews?

3452
03:11:17,360 --> 03:11:19,920
Speaker 4: And Hitler was like, I never thought about that before.

3453
03:11:20,160 --> 03:11:25,800
Speaker 4: That's so smart. Wow, thank you Palestinians. Like total bullshit,

3454
03:11:26,160 --> 03:11:32,960
Speaker 4: totally revising, like trying to do fucking like I don't

3455
03:11:32,959 --> 03:11:38,160
Speaker 4: know apology of for literally, Hitler is anti Semitic. I

3456
03:11:38,160 --> 03:11:42,400
Speaker 4: don't care how you slice it. It is. And that's

3457
03:11:42,400 --> 03:11:45,520
Speaker 4: something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal in

3458
03:11:45,560 --> 03:11:50,680
Speaker 4: anti Semitism all the time. I mean, essentially, Israel tells

3459
03:11:51,400 --> 03:11:55,280
Speaker 4: the world that Jews are a third column, loyal to

3460
03:11:55,360 --> 03:11:59,240
Speaker 4: Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our home

3461
03:11:59,400 --> 03:12:03,280
Speaker 4: isn't our home. They say this to us, and you

3462
03:12:03,280 --> 03:12:06,200
Speaker 4: know that due to our traditions and our blood, you know,

3463
03:12:06,240 --> 03:12:10,840
Speaker 4: we are just merely guests in any other place. This

3464
03:12:10,920 --> 03:12:15,640
Speaker 4: is like an old racist worldview from a previous century,

3465
03:12:15,840 --> 03:12:19,800
Speaker 4: filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and like

3466
03:12:19,840 --> 03:12:23,240
Speaker 4: for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family,

3467
03:12:23,440 --> 03:12:25,480
Speaker 4: you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish

3468
03:12:25,480 --> 03:12:28,760
Speaker 4: and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially,

3469
03:12:28,879 --> 03:12:32,959
Speaker 4: you know, like and as like the very fact of

3470
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:37,800
Speaker 4: me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder

3471
03:12:37,959 --> 03:12:42,600
Speaker 4: us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return,

3472
03:12:42,720 --> 03:12:45,240
Speaker 4: that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists

3473
03:12:45,320 --> 03:12:48,040
Speaker 4: as a passport to allow me to move to Israel

3474
03:12:48,040 --> 03:12:51,680
Speaker 4: and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like,

3475
03:12:51,920 --> 03:12:55,879
Speaker 4: you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do

3476
03:12:56,440 --> 03:12:59,120
Speaker 4: with my ability to do this, and my blood is

3477
03:12:59,120 --> 03:13:03,840
Speaker 4: my passport to you apartheid. That's why I choose to

3478
03:13:03,879 --> 03:13:05,720
Speaker 4: talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to

3479
03:13:05,800 --> 03:13:08,959
Speaker 4: use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the

3480
03:13:09,040 --> 03:13:11,240
Speaker 4: crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to

3481
03:13:11,640 --> 03:13:15,800
Speaker 4: say about it. You know. So my final piece of

3482
03:13:15,840 --> 03:13:18,760
Speaker 4: haspara has to do with something that has been said

3483
03:13:18,800 --> 03:13:23,760
Speaker 4: over and over again by countless Zionis, including the current

3484
03:13:23,840 --> 03:13:28,240
Speaker 4: President of these United States of America, Joe Biden. Folks,

3485
03:13:29,040 --> 03:13:31,720
Speaker 4: were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish the

3486
03:13:31,720 --> 03:13:34,920
Speaker 4: world was safe. The idea that the state of Israel

3487
03:13:34,959 --> 03:13:38,520
Speaker 4: alone can keep the Jewish people safe is an insane

3488
03:13:38,600 --> 03:13:44,320
Speaker 4: piece of haspara. It is a total, utter anti Semitic bullshit.

3489
03:13:45,640 --> 03:13:50,880
Speaker 4: A Jewish state does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe.

3490
03:13:51,120 --> 03:13:56,119
Speaker 4: Tying the fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish

3491
03:13:56,160 --> 03:14:00,360
Speaker 4: people is a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people

3492
03:14:00,520 --> 03:14:04,680
Speaker 4: are a nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations

3493
03:14:04,720 --> 03:14:10,039
Speaker 4: meaning like a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs,

3494
03:14:10,080 --> 03:14:13,080
Speaker 4: and religion and or religion. You know, it can be

3495
03:14:13,280 --> 03:14:15,040
Speaker 4: any of those things. And for a long long time

3496
03:14:15,080 --> 03:14:19,680
Speaker 4: we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And

3497
03:14:19,720 --> 03:14:23,320
Speaker 4: that's not to say that, you know, Israel shouldn't exist

3498
03:14:23,400 --> 03:14:26,560
Speaker 4: or whatever. But more importantly, what I'm saying is that

3499
03:14:27,360 --> 03:14:33,640
Speaker 4: Jews should exist, whether they happen to be located anywhere,

3500
03:14:33,920 --> 03:14:38,320
Speaker 4: like wherever they are, Jews should should exist. The existence

3501
03:14:38,360 --> 03:14:40,800
Speaker 4: of the state of Israel, to me is not the question,

3502
03:14:41,360 --> 03:14:44,760
Speaker 4: and that is not what Israel claims to do. They ensure,

3503
03:14:44,959 --> 03:14:47,720
Speaker 4: they claim to ensure the existence of the Jewish people,

3504
03:14:47,720 --> 03:14:49,720
Speaker 4: but they do not. All they do is try to

3505
03:14:49,760 --> 03:14:53,440
Speaker 4: bolster the existence of their state. And it should not

3506
03:14:54,080 --> 03:14:58,080
Speaker 4: be common thought that the existence of Israel and the

3507
03:14:58,120 --> 03:15:01,600
Speaker 4: existence of Jews are the same thing is I can

3508
03:15:01,640 --> 03:15:05,400
Speaker 4: personally think of nothing more dangerous for any people than

3509
03:15:05,440 --> 03:15:10,920
Speaker 4: to tie their entire survival to something as impermanent as

3510
03:15:10,959 --> 03:15:17,800
Speaker 4: a fucking state. And that is the truth about Israel.

3511
03:15:18,320 --> 03:15:24,160
Speaker 4: So you know, all this to say that I'm a

3512
03:15:24,320 --> 03:15:29,320
Speaker 4: I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's one thing that

3513
03:15:29,560 --> 03:15:32,119
Speaker 4: you know, getting into the whole Israel palasine thing will

3514
03:15:32,120 --> 03:15:34,680
Speaker 4: do to you. It turns you very quickly into someone

3515
03:15:34,720 --> 03:15:40,440
Speaker 4: who believes the existence of states is the problem. Yeah, yeah,

3516
03:15:40,480 --> 03:15:44,760
Speaker 4: so that's that's me. That's how I feel about stuff.

3517
03:15:45,400 --> 03:15:48,840
Speaker 9: I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where

3518
03:15:49,200 --> 03:15:51,800
Speaker 9: can't people hear you do the same thing? But what

3519
03:15:51,840 --> 03:15:53,240
Speaker 9: by yourself? With other people?

3520
03:15:53,879 --> 03:15:57,560
Speaker 4: You can? You can hear me? Do you know these

3521
03:15:58,080 --> 03:16:01,800
Speaker 4: talking about Israel and stuff? On my new podcast, bad

3522
03:16:01,879 --> 03:16:05,000
Speaker 4: has Bara, The world's most moral podcast. It's a it's

3523
03:16:05,040 --> 03:16:10,440
Speaker 4: a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that I that

3524
03:16:10,520 --> 03:16:13,920
Speaker 4: I find that are you know, listeners find and you know,

3525
03:16:14,000 --> 03:16:16,520
Speaker 4: I have on my friends like Charine, I had you on,

3526
03:16:16,680 --> 03:16:20,840
Speaker 4: I had an on, I had all sorts of great

3527
03:16:20,879 --> 03:16:25,440
Speaker 4: anti Zionist Jews and some really amazing Palestinian guests. Or

3528
03:16:25,440 --> 03:16:28,119
Speaker 4: at least by the time this comes out, I assume

3529
03:16:28,160 --> 03:16:31,080
Speaker 4: those episodes will have come out. I you know, I

3530
03:16:31,080 --> 03:16:34,200
Speaker 4: don't know when those are coming out. But anyways, I've

3531
03:16:34,200 --> 03:16:36,000
Speaker 4: only been doing the podcast for a month and it's

3532
03:16:36,160 --> 03:16:38,920
Speaker 4: it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic, and

3533
03:16:38,959 --> 03:16:42,520
Speaker 4: it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know, like

3534
03:16:42,680 --> 03:16:45,360
Speaker 4: caused some stress in my life because you know, looking

3535
03:16:45,440 --> 03:16:49,640
Speaker 4: for this content you have to dig through a lot

3536
03:16:49,640 --> 03:16:53,160
Speaker 4: of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad as

3537
03:16:53,160 --> 03:16:57,000
Speaker 4: Bara or you know, check me out met leave jokes

3538
03:16:57,040 --> 03:17:02,760
Speaker 4: on Instagram, and go to sacrament Know punchline March seventeenth, Sunday,

3539
03:17:03,320 --> 03:17:06,760
Speaker 4: seven pm, Me and my wife, my wife. Just if

3540
03:17:06,800 --> 03:17:09,640
Speaker 4: you're in teeny we're gonna be co headlining there, So

3541
03:17:09,760 --> 03:17:14,600
Speaker 4: get your tickets now. Link in the notes. Yay no

3542
03:17:14,760 --> 03:17:15,480
Speaker 4: thank you so much.

3543
03:17:15,560 --> 03:17:20,720
Speaker 9: I really enjoy your podcast, the most SPORL podcast, I

3544
03:17:20,720 --> 03:17:21,560
Speaker 9: would say in the.

3545
03:17:21,440 --> 03:17:24,800
Speaker 4: World for sure. Thank you for you know, give me

3546
03:17:24,800 --> 03:17:27,760
Speaker 4: the opportunity to talk about this. And you know, I

3547
03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:36,080
Speaker 4: promise you that the show, The Badass Bar Show is funny.

3548
03:17:36,400 --> 03:17:37,760
Speaker 4: I swear to god, it's funny.

3549
03:17:38,080 --> 03:17:40,360
Speaker 9: It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's

3550
03:17:40,440 --> 03:17:42,720
Speaker 9: very cathartic to just like event with your friends and

3551
03:17:42,879 --> 03:17:45,360
Speaker 9: people think the same things as you, especially if you're

3552
03:17:45,360 --> 03:17:51,080
Speaker 9: surrounded by someone or people that are kind of purposely

3553
03:17:51,080 --> 03:17:52,320
Speaker 9: ignorant or whatever.

3554
03:17:52,400 --> 03:17:56,160
Speaker 4: You know. So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who

3555
03:17:57,000 --> 03:17:59,840
Speaker 4: don't want to either don't want to engage with this

3556
03:18:00,080 --> 03:18:03,600
Speaker 4: at all, or I'm mad at you for even partially

3557
03:18:03,640 --> 03:18:06,879
Speaker 4: engaging with it, it's nice to find the people that

3558
03:18:06,959 --> 03:18:08,640
Speaker 4: you know in love and like to joke around with

3559
03:18:08,720 --> 03:18:12,800
Speaker 4: and be like, we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and

3560
03:18:13,160 --> 03:18:14,760
Speaker 4: then we go, yeah, we're not, and then we have

3561
03:18:14,800 --> 03:18:17,280
Speaker 4: a good time. Yeah, check that out, and thank you

3562
03:18:17,360 --> 03:18:19,160
Speaker 4: and thank you to everyone. A cool zon media.

3563
03:18:19,240 --> 03:18:23,920
Speaker 9: Yay, Yeah, go follow Matt, Go see Matt and his

3564
03:18:24,440 --> 03:18:28,360
Speaker 9: uh my crush his wife, don't tell her, and yeah

3565
03:18:28,840 --> 03:18:32,720
Speaker 9: they're they're really doing the work and I really appreciate

3566
03:18:32,760 --> 03:18:36,200
Speaker 9: both of you guys just being really outspoken always, and

3567
03:18:36,280 --> 03:18:40,320
Speaker 9: so yeah, follow their lead, keep talking about Palestine. There's

3568
03:18:40,360 --> 03:18:45,600
Speaker 9: still a fucking genocide happening. And that's the episode.

3569
03:18:45,959 --> 03:18:52,080
Speaker 4: All right, bye everyone, Hi Pree Palestine pre Palestine.

3570
03:18:53,200 --> 03:18:56,400
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3571
03:18:56,440 --> 03:18:58,360
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3572
03:18:58,959 --> 03:19:01,440
Speaker 8: It Could Happen here as production of cool Zone Media.

3573
03:19:01,520 --> 03:19:04,199
Speaker 9: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3574
03:19:04,240 --> 03:19:07,360
Speaker 9: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3575
03:19:07,400 --> 03:19:10,560
Speaker 9: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3576
03:19:10,600 --> 03:19:13,240
Speaker 9: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

3577
03:19:13,320 --> 03:19:16,560
Speaker 9: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.