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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the spoiler edition of the Black

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Speaker 1: Panther Wakonda Forever Review. I'm joined by my wife, Kelsey.

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Speaker 1: How are you great? So listen to this if you

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Speaker 1: have seen Black Panther Wakonda Forever, or you were never

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Speaker 1: going to watch it and you just don't care about spoilers,

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Speaker 1: or you just don't care about spoilers, which some people don't.

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Speaker 1: So let's get right into it right where the movie starts.

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Speaker 1: It starts with King Kachalla's death, a pretty gripping moment,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it sad? The weird thing about that that I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about before we did this is there were

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Speaker 1: no Avengers at his funeral, not a single one. All right,

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Speaker 1: everybody was at Tony Stark's funeral, and not a single

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Speaker 1: one showed up to his funeral. Could be for a

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Speaker 1: couple of reasons. The real reason is probably because they

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Speaker 1: couldn't afford it well. And they also filmed this like

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Speaker 1: still during the pandemic, so maybe that hadn't true. I

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Speaker 1: think the main thing is, though, to get all them

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Speaker 1: in there, to get even a few of I guess

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Speaker 1: he couldn't really get just a few of them and

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Speaker 1: explain that and justify paying that amount. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: feels like a better use of money, like does and

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Speaker 1: like graphics and things, then to pay for a budge

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Speaker 1: of cameos. It wouldn't have made sense, Like logistically it wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: But if you're in the Marvel and the Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: looking at this movie, how all these other movies you

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Speaker 1: know are connected, which I feel like Black Panther is

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Speaker 1: kind of the most separated from all of them. But still,

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Speaker 1: everybody get Tony Stark's funeral just on paper. It's weird

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Speaker 1: that nobody showed up, nobody sent anything. And I know what,

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Speaker 1: Conda doesn't want anybody there who's not supposed to be there.

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Speaker 1: But still I think for that reason there should have

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Speaker 1: been an avenger. But I get it. Can we go

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Speaker 1: back to them opening with his death, like it just

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Speaker 1: like brought back all the emotions of when we found

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Speaker 1: out in Chadwick Boseman died and had been suffering in

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Speaker 1: silence and like still doing all of these things, like

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Speaker 1: even while he was sick. Oh man, that one, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was that was rough. That one hit me hard.

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Speaker 1: And it's weird that it wasn't that long ago. Seems

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Speaker 1: like so long ago when that happened, and the same time, like,

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Speaker 1: how is it almost Yeah, Like I guess you're also

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Speaker 1: there are times construct but still yeah. I did feel

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Speaker 1: that a lot throughout the entire movie is it wasn't

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Speaker 1: just dealing with the character's death, it was also it

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Speaker 1: was a real because I mean, you figure if he

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Speaker 1: hadn't died, the story would probably be different. It would

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Speaker 1: be a yeah, the whole movie would be a lot different.

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Speaker 1: And I guess since we're talking about deaths, will address

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Speaker 1: the other death that was pretty shocking in the movie,

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Speaker 1: when Queen Romanda dies. I wasn't expecting that one. I

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Speaker 1: was not expecting that at all. How can you kill

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Speaker 1: Angela Bassett? I know, I think the movie did need it, though,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just like, damn, like that whole family has

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Speaker 1: died now, And I think that's why I think this

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Speaker 1: movie had to go to a new low emotional roller

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Speaker 1: company to get to the high that it did. And

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Speaker 1: I really felt like that was that moment in this

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Speaker 1: movie that I kind of look for in superhero movies,

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Speaker 1: kind of going back to even Spider Man No Way

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Speaker 1: Home whenever he loses U May, it gets the character

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Speaker 1: at their lowest possible point that they could be in

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Speaker 1: their life in order for them to really make a

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Speaker 1: decision on do I really want to carry out this

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Speaker 1: route of trying to be a superhero, trying to be

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Speaker 1: the good person here and taking all of those things

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Speaker 1: and battling those So I think that's what this movie

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Speaker 1: ended up doing with that side note, you sounded like

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Speaker 1: an East Coaster because you said, aunt May, your Texan

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Speaker 1: did not come out on me. Aunt May. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I think it need But I do think that even

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Speaker 1: Angela Bassett struggled with finding that out about her character.

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Speaker 1: She went to the director Ryan Coogler and said, like,

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Speaker 1: how could you do this? And that's probably hard as

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Speaker 1: an actor being in one of the most loved superhero

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Speaker 1: franchises and having your character die in the second movie.

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Speaker 1: It takes away your character, It takes away you being

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Speaker 1: a part of the series as it continues, takes away

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Speaker 1: a paycheck. So I could imagine you wanting to fight

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Speaker 1: for your character. But I think for him, you know,

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Speaker 1: shaping this story, really having to make something that took

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Speaker 1: it a level above the original Black Panther, it kind

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Speaker 1: of needed that moment because you don't think it's going

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Speaker 1: to happen, you expect her to be fine later to

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Speaker 1: I thought she was like, I'm going to come back

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Speaker 1: to life. Yeah, I didn't see it coming. And then

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Speaker 1: when they cut to the funeral scene again, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how can these characters go through that again? It starts

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Speaker 1: with the funeral and then about halfway through another funeral.

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Speaker 1: So it really gets Wakonda in that entire grief process

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Speaker 1: and really kind of continues that theme of you know,

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Speaker 1: building yourself back. So this movie tore a lot of

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Speaker 1: things down and then built them up back towards the end.

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Speaker 1: And then if they decide to do a third movie,

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Speaker 1: which they probably will, there's still no confirmation on that.

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Speaker 1: I think that's where the movie and the action will

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Speaker 1: really continue to shine. Can we jump around and talk

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Speaker 1: about why there would be a third movie? Yeah? That scene,

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Speaker 1: the mid credit scene, the mid credit scene where you

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Speaker 1: find out that Schala has a son, like that was

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Speaker 1: an incredible moment. I think Black Panther is one of

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Speaker 1: the strongest in the franchise, definitely. I mean that was

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Speaker 1: I saw that one twice in theaters within like a

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Speaker 1: week of it coming out, and that's I mean, those

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Speaker 1: were long movies to sit through twice in the theater,

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Speaker 1: but I was so captivated by it the first time.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I've got to see it again. And

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Speaker 1: how thought out that was, or how they just wrote

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Speaker 1: that entire piece together, which I wondered too, like why

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Speaker 1: she wasn't at the funeral at the start of the movie,

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Speaker 1: going back to looking at the character list of people

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Speaker 1: who weren't there, But it turns out because she stayed

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Speaker 1: in Haiti with her son, they had a funeral there.

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Speaker 1: Queen Romanda also got to meet the Sun, and it

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Speaker 1: just really tied everything together at the end. It created

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Speaker 1: that hype moment that I think you look for in

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Speaker 1: the mid in this case a mid credit scene, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of have been a little bit tired of

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Speaker 1: mid credit scenes post credit scenes. I feel like they

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Speaker 1: build this hype that the next movie really doesn't live

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Speaker 1: up to. But this one, like that was an appropriate

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Speaker 1: thing even that was handled perfectly in this movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's also I feel like one of the first

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Speaker 1: and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because you

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Speaker 1: know all about the superheroes, one of the first times

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Speaker 1: that a superhero's kid could then go on to become

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Speaker 1: their legacy. Yeah, like you think about like Hawkeye has kids,

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Speaker 1: they're not They're not anything special. Yeah, iron Man, we

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Speaker 1: see his relationship with his daughter, but she's not Morgan's

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Speaker 1: that out here trying to be the Iron Man. We

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that in the m c U. There's probably

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Speaker 1: a comic variation out there somewhere. I'm not but I

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Speaker 1: thought that was really interesting. I would love to see

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Speaker 1: I think I told you this before. I would love

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Speaker 1: to see like all the kids of the superheroes go

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Speaker 1: on to even just have like a Disney Plus series.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you would, and you could put Tony Stark's

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Speaker 1: daughter of Morgan the head of that. It doesn't Plus series.

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Speaker 1: Some of them aren't what I thought they were going

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Speaker 1: to be. Started out strong one Division, the Captain America one,

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Speaker 1: and then I kind of feel like I went a

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Speaker 1: little Yeah, this phase four of Disney Plus series haven't

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Speaker 1: been my favorite. I have struggled to get through some

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Speaker 1: of them. But I do want to see the Ironheart

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Speaker 1: series after watching this movie, because your character was awesome

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be the same girl, same girl,

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Speaker 1: and she was great. That was a great addition to

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Speaker 1: this movie. There was a lot of callbacks to Whenever

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Speaker 1: the first Iron Man came out a lot of her

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Speaker 1: creating that suit, building that suit, and just a moment

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Speaker 1: she had in the film, even like when she was

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Speaker 1: first shows are flying it like going too high. That

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Speaker 1: was a good call back to the original Iron Man.

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Speaker 1: So I just loved her character in this entire movie.

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Speaker 1: And it's often weird whenever you introduce a new character

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Speaker 1: into Marvel movies, it feels a little bit forced and cheesy.

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Speaker 1: But I felt like her character of Ironheart played so

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Speaker 1: well into the entire story that the chemistry was there

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Speaker 1: and it actually made sense to the story instead of

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Speaker 1: just hey, let's lap in a new character, kind of

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Speaker 1: like when we watched Black Adam and all those new

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Speaker 1: DC characters they headed in, it was terrible. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, I can't stand these characters. But when it

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Speaker 1: came to iron Heart, you're like, all right, that's how

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Speaker 1: you create a cool origin story. And I love how

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Speaker 1: this movie was really focused on like the female hero

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Speaker 1: I just thought that was so cool, and not only

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Speaker 1: female heroes, but black female heroes. And I think you

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Speaker 1: and I were talking about this after, like the representation

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Speaker 1: there is so cool, Like I am I'm a white girl.

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Speaker 1: I see myself in every movie I have, like I've

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Speaker 1: grown up seeing myself and everything, and for this movie

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Speaker 1: to be and I think that's why Black Panther was

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Speaker 1: so special to people. But then to flip the coin

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Speaker 1: and it be sure and iron heart, I just thought

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Speaker 1: that was really neat and to show like that girls

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Speaker 1: can be so into math and science. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big math and science nerd, but I just

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Speaker 1: thought it was so awesome to show that it's not

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Speaker 1: just always the dudes like doing the cool things. It's

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Speaker 1: not always Tony Stark, Like you have some badass women

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Speaker 1: doing what I would think is the coolest thing in

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Speaker 1: Holy m C. Yeah, So I had to put that

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Speaker 1: point in there that I I think it was awesome

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Speaker 1: and it goes to show that representation really does matter.

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Speaker 1: And I guess I didn't really realize how much representation

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Speaker 1: matters for me, Like I just love superhero movies so much.

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Speaker 1: I never really understood the concept of seeing myself reflected

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Speaker 1: in any of the characters. They were just never there

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Speaker 1: Mexican characters. But in Black Panther, the Mexican villain nay

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Speaker 1: More was amazing in this movie, and I loved all

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Speaker 1: of even though they were the bad guys. I love

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Speaker 1: seeing that too, and he is one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: villains in all of the new Marvel movies, and I

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Speaker 1: felt like he was this really well thought out villain.

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Speaker 1: He looked cool, and this movie revealed for the first

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Speaker 1: time that he is a mutant, which is a big

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Speaker 1: deal because they're anybody in the m c U hasn't

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Speaker 1: been referred to as a mutant, which that's only been

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Speaker 1: on the X Men side. So now people are speculating

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Speaker 1: that this is kind of setting up maybe more of

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Speaker 1: a merger of like the Fantastic Four, especially now that

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Speaker 1: Patrick Stewart came back in Doctor Strange and the Last One,

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Speaker 1: so there's this kind of revival of those Marvel movies,

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Speaker 1: even with the new Deadpool coming out and Wolverine being

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Speaker 1: in it. So it doesn't really mean an entirely a

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Speaker 1: lot to me, but I did love his character and

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Speaker 1: I loved that little detail in the movie. Biggest thing

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Speaker 1: at this entire movie that I was waiting for was

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Speaker 1: to see who the new Black Panther would be. I

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Speaker 1: guess the easy guests going into it was going to

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Speaker 1: be Sherry, which that's what what ended up happening. She

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Speaker 1: was able to recreate the purple heart shaped herb, which

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with her lab like, I just want her

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Speaker 1: to cool lab and like her AI just to make

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Speaker 1: all things So. The reason they couldn't say King Tachala

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Speaker 1: is because in the first movie, kill Manger burns all

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Speaker 1: to save him. They were out of it. That's why

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Speaker 1: he passed away. And then later through all these tests

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Speaker 1: and all this math and science that she's able to do,

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Speaker 1: she's able to recreate it, do the same ritual that

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Speaker 1: he did to become Black Panther, and she becomes Black Panther.

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Speaker 1: And in that moment where she goes and see she's

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Speaker 1: supposed to see, supposed to see him, and instead she

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Speaker 1: sees kill Manger, which I knew he was going to

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Speaker 1: be in it. I just was so good. That was

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Speaker 1: such a great moment. And it was a different reaction

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Speaker 1: than I was expecting because in Spider Man No Way Home,

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Speaker 1: first time, the entire theater went crazy. With this, it

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Speaker 1: was a little bit more subtle and just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there he is. So because I still think the Spider

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Speaker 1: because I was from three different like franchises. First Killer

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Speaker 1: see him. In the back of my head, I wanted

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Speaker 1: him to become the new Black Panther because at the

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Speaker 1: end of the first one, yes he's still the villain,

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Speaker 1: but he kind of shows a little bit of redemption

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Speaker 1: before he dies, and I was just like, they don't

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Speaker 1: have Chadwick Boseman anymore. Maybe they reform his character and

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Speaker 1: he comes back to help Wakonda, But then in that

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Speaker 1: scene you see that he's still the same she was not.

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Speaker 1: He was very negative and no reform. There you have

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Speaker 1: Sheery going through this battle of she wants vengeance. She

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Speaker 1: has all of this anger, but she also has now

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Speaker 1: to carry the weight of being the Black Panther and

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Speaker 1: she and the only one left of her family and

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Speaker 1: the only one left now. So she could go the

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Speaker 1: way that kill Monger is telling her to do and

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Speaker 1: be vengeful, or she could go and do the more

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Speaker 1: noble way that her brother would have wanted her to

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Speaker 1: carry on. And she picks that way, which ends up

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Speaker 1: being a really great final battle scene whenever she does

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Speaker 1: face and fight Name or the suit looked amazing, and

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Speaker 1: again she used her smarts and her ability to think

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Speaker 1: situations out to defeat him. She outsmart at him, got

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Speaker 1: him out of the water, heated him up so he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have his powers, and basically evaporates all the water

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Speaker 1: around him to weaken him and then kill him. Which

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Speaker 1: I thought that final battle scene was awesome. The one

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Speaker 1: thing that caught me off guard, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: how she survived was whenever she got impaled by Name More.

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Speaker 1: I thought that I was about to say, like, is

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Speaker 1: this really how they're gonna end it with the third

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Speaker 1: Like the suit helps, I guess, I guess the herb helps.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she was able to have crafted in a way

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Speaker 1: that she reached inn rated from that. Yeah, that happened,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm if she dies, I thought

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Speaker 1: right now, I was like no, because Name Moore did

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Speaker 1: seem like he couldn't be stopped. And even in that

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Speaker 1: moment where he was weakened, he impaled her, and you think, dang,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna kill her too, He's going to take over,

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Speaker 1: Like what is going to happen? I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about nay More and his what you call it this tribe? Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there um like sonic spell that they put people

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Speaker 1: under it to. Yeah, I thought that was fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they go into this spell and then throw walking off

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Speaker 1: of boats and I was like, all right, movie it

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Speaker 1: did too. Yeah, that did to you like a well,

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Speaker 1: you got like lake Bell in the beginning, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen her in this She wasn't in it long.

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Speaker 1: But there were parts of this movie that had a

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Speaker 1: very different vibe and I think that was one of

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Speaker 1: them that it felt a little bit more I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say more like cinematic. It just had like

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Speaker 1: this different to it to where it didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: you were just watching a Marvel movie. And it also

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Speaker 1: didn't even feel like the original one. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was because they are blue and I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing so many Avatar trailers just but it gave

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Speaker 1: me Avatar vibes. That was my bone to pick with

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Speaker 1: the movie is that they were blue and it gave

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Speaker 1: me Avatar vibes. And I already am like avatars three

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Speaker 1: plus hours. We're gonna have to go see this. But

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Speaker 1: I guess because they were water creatures. The blue maide sense,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of the imagery though, even some of

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Speaker 1: the things that came up from under the water, even

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Speaker 1: the fight scene at the end, brainstorming a better color,

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Speaker 1: maybe purple, purple, purple green, they would have looked like um,

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Speaker 1: what's her name from Guardians the Galaxy moa like purple

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Speaker 1: would have Yeah, the blue was hard to look past.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, we had an early screening of Avatar,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like there was way more action in

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Speaker 1: this movie, probably just in that final battle scene that

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Speaker 1: they'll be in all of Avatar. Avatar starting to look

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Speaker 1: like a like a chore to be able to watch,

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Speaker 1: and the more and more trailers I see, the less

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Speaker 1: and less I want to watch it, which is rare

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Speaker 1: for I just want everyone listening to this to know

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Speaker 1: that we are going to go see Avatar for you.

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Speaker 1: We're doing We're doing this for you. It's a public

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Speaker 1: service for this podcast. But I will be you have

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Speaker 1: to drag me there. I need like dinner first, and

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Speaker 1: then finally the movie wraps up with Imbaku being the

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Speaker 1: new leader of Wakonda. Okay, but I'm glad we're wrapping

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Speaker 1: up with here before we talk about him being the leader,

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Speaker 1: I just want to talk about Imbaku being the comedic

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Speaker 1: genius of this movie, giving him the spotlight finally. It

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Speaker 1: was everything, Like the movie was so heavy at times,

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Speaker 1: and his just like comedic timing was impeccable, him calling

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Speaker 1: Nay more fishman, all of his lines. I was. I

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Speaker 1: loved it, like I thought it was his chance to

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Speaker 1: finally shine. Yeah, definitely stepped it up in this movie.

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Speaker 1: It was a subtle kind of comedy that the movie needed.

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Speaker 1: It didn't need any cheese s like wheaty stuff. It

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Speaker 1: just needed this subtle kind Yes, that's all it needed.

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Speaker 1: So he definitely became one of my favorite characters in

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Speaker 1: this movie. And I wasn't really expecting that, but I

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Speaker 1: think with everybody else kind of elevating their game to

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Speaker 1: fill some of the gaps here, I thought he was perfect.

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Speaker 1: And apparently in the original script, sure he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the new queen, and then they shifted to Umbaku,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was the better probably the better choice,

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Speaker 1: especially now when you find out that there is the

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Speaker 1: sun at Tachala. So now she's black panther, But how

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Speaker 1: long is she going to be black panther? Does it automatically?

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Speaker 1: Like how I wonder how fast they will move from

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Speaker 1: part two to part three as far as yeah, like

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Speaker 1: is it him as a kid like him getting trained

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Speaker 1: by Sherry or does it cut to him ready to

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Speaker 1: take You know, I want to see a tiny I

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Speaker 1: want to see like tiny black panthers and training. That's

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Speaker 1: what I want to see. You should just become black

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Speaker 1: panther now, Yeah, however old he is and then they

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Speaker 1: just train him. So overall, a couple of weeks out

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Speaker 1: of watching this movie, I stand by my rating. I

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Speaker 1: gave it a five out of five? What did you

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Speaker 1: give it? Four point seven five out of five? So

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Speaker 1: close to perfect? What would you deduct from to give

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Speaker 1: it the four point seven five? I really didn't like

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Speaker 1: that they were blue. It made me think of Avatar

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Speaker 1: the whole time. I just I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: have this thing with Avatar. I don't know if I've

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Speaker 1: talked about it on here before, but like, if you've

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Speaker 1: ever been on a cruise, Avatar is the only movie

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Speaker 1: they show on a loop. So I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: seen bits and pieces of that movie way too many

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Speaker 1: times then one human should have to sit through. So

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Speaker 1: just it was the avatar vibes. And it was also

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Speaker 1: a little long. It was long. I felt it that

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Speaker 1: it was long, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it,

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Speaker 1: but I just was like starting to feel it. Anything

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Speaker 1: over two twenty my legs started to get a little rest.

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Speaker 1: I just think of whenever it comes out on Disney. Plus,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like that factors as much to me.

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Speaker 1: I would rather have the two plus hour movie to

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Speaker 1: watch later and have all of this content in there

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Speaker 1: than it being cut short. From my experience there, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of how I feel about longer movies now. So

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Speaker 1: when you get to that three hour range, that three

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Speaker 1: hours unless year Avengers game or a Harry Potter movie,

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Speaker 1: which I actually don't think Harry Potter's went into three hours,

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Speaker 1: not quite. I can sit through like a two and

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Speaker 1: a half hour Harry Potter movie. It's just magical. It

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Speaker 1: is magical. So next week on the podcast, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be ranking all of Phase four from Marvel, so

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Speaker 1: everything that's come out in the last two years, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll leaven take it a step further and rank

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Speaker 1: all the phases, So going very in depth on where

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Speaker 1: all of these movies rank, and then if you missed

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Speaker 1: the interview from earlier in the week, I had Amy

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Speaker 1: Brown on who is in the new movie that's out today,

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Speaker 1: Holiday Harmony on HBO Max. So if you missed that interview,

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Speaker 1: go back one episode here in the feed. And also

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Speaker 1: you can now watch individual movie reviews on my YouTube

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Speaker 1: channel YouTube dot com slash Mike Destro or if you

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Speaker 1: forget all of that stuff, it's always in the episode notes. Kelsey,

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Speaker 1: is there anything else you would like to say to everyone? No,

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna do a bonus episode and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna come talk about my favorite books of the year.

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Speaker 1: Books of the year were already during the end of

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Speaker 1: the year. Books of the Year, movies of the year,

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Speaker 1: interviews of the year, all that coming to you soon.

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Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for listening, and until next week, go out

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Speaker 1: and watch good movies and I will talk to you

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Speaker 1: later