Speaker 1: I want this on official record. Actually, yeah, why.
Speaker 2: Don't you Actually marriage is falling apart in real time
Speaker 2: and you just don't.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I feel like a child in divorce court.
Speaker 1: You ever listen to the show Dough Boys. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: like two years there it was like listening to a
Speaker 1: couple getting a divorce and then they like pushed their
Speaker 1: way through it. It's really an amazing Wait when was that?
Speaker 1: They just like were always like, oh, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1: So great, you're so mad at each other all the time.
Speaker 2: At least, it's not like I remember at the end
Speaker 2: of Bodego Boys, when you could just tell like there
Speaker 2: was just like this passive anger just simmering sometimes and
Speaker 2: like Barro would talk too much.
Speaker 1: Let them? Is that too much? Sorry? Was I talking
Speaker 1: too much? Again? That is like such divorcing couple enters.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I guess I was talking too much again.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this about me, but
Speaker 2: apparently whenever I speak, it's the most annoying thing anyone
Speaker 2: can ever.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this about me. Here's
Speaker 1: a fun fact about me, is that when I speak,
Speaker 1: it's apparently like nails on a chalkboard. Right quote somebody
Speaker 1: who was that? Honey? Who said that? Who was that?
Speaker 2: Well, there's only two of us talking to each other
Speaker 2: right now. It's like, who are you even bringing in?
Speaker 2: Is this third party? A second ago? No, No, there's
Speaker 2: I just saw a bunch of like, for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: all the articles I was being like that, I saw
Speaker 2: through that, like on the feed of like our articles
Speaker 2: I look at, so many were about like, like cheating,
Speaker 2: the definition of cheating is evolving. Here's how to know
Speaker 2: if you're doing it. And another one was like relationship
Speaker 2: burnout is real. Here how to get in front of it.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm happy to say that we are as podcast
Speaker 1: as co host in an open relationship where you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was co hosting The Dollar
Speaker 2: over the weekend.
Speaker 1: Did you really No? I was gonna be like, damn,
Speaker 1: I gotta listen to again. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: They're like, is it okay?
Speaker 1: I'm like Pat Jackson in his own world, asleep at
Speaker 1: the Weekly.
Speaker 2: If jack cared, he'd tell me I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: He actually just has a cup chair in the podcasting
Speaker 1: studio where he watches me podcast with other ghosts, where
Speaker 1: he listens to me guest on other shows, Hello the
Speaker 1: Internet and Welcome to Season three eighty seven, Episode two
Speaker 1: of It's a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: This is the podcast where we take a deep.
Speaker 1: Dive into America's share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, May sixth,
Speaker 1: May the sixth be with you. May this sit yeah
Speaker 1: fifth Day?
Speaker 2: Yeah hell yeah, fort Brother, the sad people out there
Speaker 2: who want to be sick anyway. National Foster Care Day,
Speaker 2: National Teacher Appreciation Day. I'm a shout out Judy Clawson,
Speaker 2: my first music teacher who cultivated a love in music
Speaker 2: in me that's still to this day stays with me
Speaker 2: and I'm forever grateful. So I just want to shout
Speaker 2: you out because I will never forget you. Miss Boston.
Speaker 2: National Crape Susette Day. This looks like some shit. Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's dad was. Have you ever had a crip susette?
Speaker 1: You know what?
Speaker 2: It looks like a bunch of like origami with orange slices,
Speaker 2: like the crape looks like shit doing this photo. Also
Speaker 2: National Beverage Day, National Nurse's Day.
Speaker 1: Shout out to miss McDonald. What did she teach my
Speaker 1: seventh grade English teacher? First person who is like, you're
Speaker 1: good at writing? Helps you read. Yeah, finally help. You're
Speaker 1: good at reading, you can do the jack.
Speaker 2: You're gonna can do it at a kindergarten level.
Speaker 1: Now, finally a way to go back to Hugh. Thank you. Well.
Speaker 1: My name is Jack O'Brien ak. And did you think
Speaker 1: this fool could never win seven seven hundred pound gorilla
Speaker 1: hitting like a chimp. I got the taste of blood
Speaker 1: on the stairs so far away, and I'll probably never
Speaker 1: sleep again from what I've done today. Don't you know
Speaker 1: that I'm still standing? I lost I only lost one
Speaker 1: of my limbs, looking like the soul survivor next to
Speaker 1: fight a million kids. That one courtesy of David Lesser
Speaker 1: on the discord A little ej Elton John, Wow, Yeah, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know we're still out here. We're still talking about
Speaker 1: one hundred men versus one gorilla. And I do feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like I just got that that fight
Speaker 1: in me. I got that dog in me. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: quit even though I had I was missing all my
Speaker 1: teeth and multiple limbs. That's personally where I see it going.
Speaker 1: But I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co.
Speaker 2: Host, mister Miles Great Miles Pray A k a k.
Speaker 1: He'll probably start the fight by sleep and boo, I
Speaker 1: need I need one hundred men. Almost call your dudes.
Speaker 1: I had to do the harmony. I'm fighting names down
Speaker 1: and out Africa. Give him a beauting like he's never
Speaker 1: shout out David Lesson, a David Lesser with multiple I
Speaker 1: mean we're very predicta doubles. Nah, give us, give us
Speaker 1: the gorilla fighting the gorilla.
Speaker 2: And I've I got to say, I was telling Jack privately,
Speaker 2: I've really I've had an evolution on this wild like
Speaker 2: this is. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about later
Speaker 2: after hearing from many learned people, I've my my perspective
Speaker 2: has shifted quite dramatically on this, on this this thought experiment.
Speaker 1: But we'll get to that later. Well, we we have
Speaker 1: somebody with us today, Miles, who I think will help
Speaker 1: us shed a little bit of light on this subject.
Speaker 1: A writer, cartoonist, podcaster, a former roboticist who has written
Speaker 1: books like We Have No Idea Guide to the Unknown Universe.
Speaker 1: His new podcast, Science Stuff is Answer Is answering fascinating
Speaker 1: questions every episode, like his hypnotism Real Do Our Pets
Speaker 1: Lie to Us? I've been saying this for years. I
Speaker 1: know a bird is a liar.
Speaker 2: That bird is having fun up there, that's fun.
Speaker 1: Do you really have to wait thirty minutes to go swimming?
Speaker 1: Which is going to be my first question for him,
Speaker 1: Our dear death experience is real. It's a great. Listen,
Speaker 1: We're thrilled to have him back. Please welcome back to
Speaker 1: the show. Or hey child, hello, hello friends, hello dailies
Speaker 1: or what do you call your audience hykes hikes?
Speaker 2: They call them the status whis actually all right, yeah yeah, don't.
Speaker 1: Try to slip that by him, just because he's a scientist.
Speaker 1: Miles just like to wait, he's miles. Try to pluralize
Speaker 1: status quo as status quhi.
Speaker 2: And then what was statusy's status.
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah that I quote?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh wait that is You're I'm going to leave
Speaker 2: you No, no, sorry, I was just making statusy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's status is quot so I wasn't. Yeah they
Speaker 2: want attorney's general, Yeah, it was attorney general style.
Speaker 1: That's the other on things like that. Yep, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well great, or hey, we're thrilled to have you back. Okay,
Speaker 1: can you just do you really have to wait thirty
Speaker 1: minutes to go swimming? Because I have a multiple times
Speaker 1: in my life not waited and then you're dying, I think,
Speaker 1: but maybe I'll die in my fifties from it, from
Speaker 1: like stocking up, it's like stop, like a sleep that
Speaker 1: you've built up. It's like too much time swimming after
Speaker 1: with just fifteen minutes after eating. No, yeah, we've all
Speaker 1: been there. You know. You're a kid. You want to
Speaker 1: go back in the pool.
Speaker 3: It's hot, you want to play with your friends, but
Speaker 3: some adults tell you you.
Speaker 1: Can't do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to wait thirty minutes. And for me
Speaker 3: this was kind of personal because my aunt was a
Speaker 3: doctor and she would take a swimming all the time.
Speaker 3: She'd be like, no, you have to wait thirty minutes
Speaker 3: after eating, and so in this episode, I really wanted
Speaker 3: to know the answer yeah, which is apparently you don't
Speaker 3: have to wait thirty minutes after eating to go swimming,
Speaker 3: but you probably should.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, probably should, but you don't, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not gonna die, You're not gonna get crams.
Speaker 3: Cramps are not related to what actually Cramps are related
Speaker 3: to what you don't eat, Like if you don't eat
Speaker 3: enough electrolytes or sugars, they think maybe that's one cause
Speaker 3: for cramps, which is super interesting to me that scientists
Speaker 3: don't know what causes crams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like one of those it up, we don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: seem real. It seems like it's one of those a
Speaker 1: public health policy question like where it's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you could probably get away with it on your own,
Speaker 1: but like as a public pool policy, if you don't
Speaker 1: want people throwing up in your pool or you know,
Speaker 1: cramping in a giant pool, then like it's probably a
Speaker 1: good policy to have for a whole ass public pool,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's probably just recommended just because you know,
Speaker 3: you're you're kind of flat when you're swimming, so your
Speaker 3: stomach kind of gets turned around.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like the zero gravity stuff that space.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, and also like your body is time
Speaker 1: to digest, you know, right right right hard disagree on
Speaker 1: that one where I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've taken a bite at pizza and then immediately
Speaker 2: done a cannonball.
Speaker 1: With the pizza in your mouth. I probably have done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I come up still chewing it.
Speaker 1: It comes a little soggy, but you know, they're sacrificed.
Speaker 2: When I was exhaling as I dove in the water,
Speaker 2: A lot of marin Eric came out of my nose.
Speaker 1: What what kind of pizza was that? And it's a
Speaker 1: tomato pie? Yeah? Well, all right, we're thrilled to have you.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to know you a little bit better
Speaker 1: in a moment. First, we're gonna tell the listeners a
Speaker 1: couple of things we're talking about today, where we are
Speaker 1: going to check in with President Trump planning to reopen Alcatraz,
Speaker 1: which hell yeah, both a cool story that is happening.
Speaker 1: He a man of many wants and you know, just
Speaker 1: the his these ideas drift past him. It's truly it
Speaker 1: feels like our national conversation is just based on who
Speaker 1: he talks to that day on TV. Yeah, or what
Speaker 1: which When was the last time he saw the rock?
Speaker 1: So well, we'll talk about that. We also just want
Speaker 1: to like kind of dig into some of the kind
Speaker 1: of interesting questions that you've been looking into on your podcast, Warge.
Speaker 1: Our near death experience is real? Is hypnotism real? Let's
Speaker 1: be honest. We're going to talk a lot about whether
Speaker 1: one hundred men could defeat one gorilla. Be honest, here,
Speaker 1: talk about the real status static Qui, y, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: the real zeitgeist, the real statuses statuses quo. I am
Speaker 1: curious though on the hypnotism thing, Miles. You you brought
Speaker 1: up the point that that might relate in interesting ways
Speaker 1: to the intention economy that AI is supposedly about to
Speaker 1: unleash on all of us. Basically, it knows us so
Speaker 1: well that it can just steer us imperceptibly and like
Speaker 1: sell our future behavior, our intention to do things to people.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to get your thoughts on that as well,
Speaker 1: especially as a former roboticist. But all of that plenty more.
Speaker 1: But before we get to it, Jorge, we do like
Speaker 1: to ask our guest, what is something from your search
Speaker 1: history that's revealing about who you are? Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: that I can disclose in public or want to that
Speaker 1: you would not want to, but you just feel like
Speaker 1: pressured because you know you want to make good podect
Speaker 1: go for a little bit embarrassing but not too embarrassing,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or humiliating whatever whatever is your earth flat.
Speaker 1: This is gonna surprise you guy that that would be
Speaker 1: both embarrassing and potentially career ending for me. That's why
Speaker 1: you take the big risks on this podcast. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: right now, I mean really deep dive into this episode
Speaker 1: we're doing about are we living in a simulation? So
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard this question, Like there's
Speaker 1: this idea that maybe we're all really just inside of
Speaker 1: a video game of some alien or advanced civilization. And
Speaker 1: so I've been googling a lot. How much computing power
Speaker 1: would it take to simulate a human brain? Mm hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: like can you do it on your phone or if
Speaker 1: you need like a planet sized computer to do it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because we're seeing now that's a really good point that
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of in the context of the evolving
Speaker 1: conversation around AI, that you know what, one of the
Speaker 1: limitations we're running into with AI is that, like Sam
Speaker 1: Altman is like we're having to burn down like three
Speaker 1: rainforests tonight instead of two because people keep saying please
Speaker 1: and thank you to the It was like, it's limited.
Speaker 1: It's a computing power. It just requires to draw much
Speaker 1: energy to train these things. So yeah, like if you're
Speaker 1: going to run a hyper realistic simulation that fools billions
Speaker 1: of people across the planet, like why, uh, like what
Speaker 1: must what energy source must you be using you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: is the answer depressing how little computing power it would take? Uh? No,
Speaker 1: the answer is uh, depressedly large? So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: how many hamsters on a wheel? Good? Are we talking
Speaker 1: about at least one hundred gorillas? Uh? That's somebody you need?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Wow, might easier like Okham's raiser. Might
Speaker 1: just be that we're just doing this on our Yeah,
Speaker 1: just why earn millions and millions of uh you know
Speaker 1: what whatever the unit is for energy? When you can
Speaker 1: when you can just have just be happening naturally already. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, it turns out like the computer
Speaker 3: chip in your computer or your laptops that has enough
Speaker 3: transistors pretty much to match how many neurons you have
Speaker 3: in your brain.
Speaker 1: So we're kind of close. But the question is like,
Speaker 1: how many actual transistors do you need to simulate one neuron?
Speaker 1: Which might be you know, a thousand or or a
Speaker 1: ten thousand, who knows, And so that's what I'm deep
Speaker 1: into searching. Nice, So are you a you believe that
Speaker 1: it's a simulation. I think that people I'm not super Yeah,
Speaker 1: people will, yes, yes, people will find out.
Speaker 3: The short answer is no. The short answer is probably. Actually,
Speaker 3: the short answer is probably.
Speaker 1: So. How when you're approaching a question like this, how
Speaker 1: much of your research is just googling what does Elon
Speaker 1: Musk say? Because like that's when I'm approaching a scientific thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, well, let's check with richest guy
Speaker 1: aka by the transit of property, smartest guy, what he say,
Speaker 1: and then I just go with that for like ninety
Speaker 1: percent of what I believe. Yeah, is that not how
Speaker 1: you do research?
Speaker 3: There is a lot of googling at first, but then
Speaker 3: the gurgling turns into like reading academic papers, and then
Speaker 3: turns into like talking to experts by phone, like calling
Speaker 3: them and recording.
Speaker 2: You use the woke phone to call woke experts on science?
Speaker 1: WHOA what is uh? What's something you think is underrated?
Speaker 1: I have something that I thought I thought was overrated,
Speaker 1: but now I'm convinced it's underrated. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, as you know, I'm part of my career has
Speaker 3: been as a cartoonist. I draw cartoons, comics, I illustrate
Speaker 3: books for kids and adults. And I always thought, like,
Speaker 3: you know, cartooning is so specific, you need like you know,
Speaker 3: black lines, and there's so much style and personality in
Speaker 3: them that AI is never going to be able to
Speaker 3: compete with, like you know, Bill Watterson or a famous
Speaker 3: famous cartoonist. But so I always thought I was a
Speaker 3: little overrated. But now after the whole Studio Ghibli sation memes,
Speaker 3: have you guys seen that where people are creating photos
Speaker 3: of themselves in the style of Studio Ghibli, which is
Speaker 3: this famous Japanese animation studio. Uh Now, I'm like, dang,
Speaker 3: I'm glad I switched over to podcasting for my.
Speaker 1: Cartoons.
Speaker 3: Yestually recently, my daughter has been like illustrating funny illustrations
Speaker 3: for this book project she's doing in school, and she's
Speaker 3: just like talking to the AI online like, hey, can
Speaker 3: you make me a drawing of this a teenage girl
Speaker 3: looking this way, holding this in the style of this
Speaker 3: with this as a background, And it's like boom there
Speaker 3: it is, Yeah, as good as anything I could ever draw.
Speaker 2: How do you look at that as someone who spent
Speaker 2: a lifetime like honing a craft, like being able to
Speaker 2: cartoon and draw, and then see that something like that
Speaker 2: that you've spent hours doing has kind of just been
Speaker 2: like transformed into a text prompt that could put something
Speaker 2: out like do you.
Speaker 1: Like what do you tell your kid?
Speaker 2: Are you like, h you know, maybe you know it's
Speaker 2: also fun like picking up a pen and drawing stuff too,
Speaker 2: Like that's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not surprising. I guess I'm
Speaker 3: a roboticist by training, and so you know, to me,
Speaker 3: like humans, we were just like meat robots, you know,
Speaker 3: and so technically anything in meat what could do, a
Speaker 3: metallic robot could also do. So I'm not like surprised
Speaker 3: that it's happening she can do it. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: just really encourage people to draw. It's just just such
Speaker 3: a fun activity. It's relaxing, it's good for your mental health,
Speaker 3: it's good for your brainstorming. I USEDID a lot for brainstorming,
Speaker 3: and and so I help people then lose the ability
Speaker 3: to draw.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've definitely I've like I started, I was
Speaker 2: doing coloring like adult coloring books recently because I realized
Speaker 2: how much how much I really enjoyed like that sensation
Speaker 2: as a kid of like just ye the lines and shit,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, this is this has many therapeutic
Speaker 2: applications for me, even though it's not necessarily I'm you know,
Speaker 2: trying to no one's bought any of my colorings. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, but then it's like, you know, I spend
Speaker 2: all this time coloring in the lines. Then I feel
Speaker 2: like that magic is lost. If it's AI, I feel
Speaker 2: like it's more impressive when I told him, like, no,
Speaker 2: I with my own mind, I stayed inside the lines
Speaker 2: when I color.
Speaker 1: What is some of you thinks overrated?
Speaker 3: What do I think it's overrated? This might be a
Speaker 3: little controversial, but I've been watching The Last of Us
Speaker 3: on TV, you guys fans of the show'm.
Speaker 2: I played the games, and I know I know what
Speaker 2: people are reacting to based on my history with the
Speaker 2: video game. But I haven't watched season two yet. I
Speaker 2: watched the first season. I really like the first season.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Yeah, I feel like it's getting a
Speaker 3: lot of critical attention, but I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's like The Walking Dead, just with a little
Speaker 3: more money. Yes, sorry, not a scientific topic, just last time.
Speaker 3: I'm a big zombie enthusiast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and did you like how how long was Walking
Speaker 2: Dead able to keep your attention? Because I like, after
Speaker 2: the Frank it was that first season, After that Frank
Speaker 2: Derabad season, I was like, well I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I was gonna check it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: good question.
Speaker 3: They lost me like it may be season five or six,
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, what's your seminal? Like, what's your what's the
Speaker 1: peak of zombie storytelling in for you? Oh? Boy? Uh.
Speaker 1: One that maybe people haven't heard of is this Korean
Speaker 1: teen high school drama called We Are All Dead on Netflix. Yeah,
Speaker 1: teen drama but with zombies, and it's super grim and
Speaker 1: super sad. But really, all of us are dead us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of us are dead is the name of it.
Speaker 1: Do you see Kingdom? That was another Korean zombie thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my my Spause watched that. She's a big fan of that.
Speaker 1: I think that they lost me on the costumes, you know.
Speaker 1: For me, the zombie appeal is imagining the apocalypse and
Speaker 1: how like how how I would react and how anyone
Speaker 1: anyways reacting? Right trained to Bisson, they really do it
Speaker 1: pretty well. Yeah, that's also a banger. So go to
Speaker 1: Korea for all your zombie zombie shire zombies, k pop
Speaker 1: and food there also and devices. All right, well we'll
Speaker 1: get to some of your other thoughts on AI stuff
Speaker 1: in a bit first, let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: we'll come back and talk about some news. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. And we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back. We're back. God, we're sober. We're back at ninety.
Speaker 2: We're back to nineteen fifty five. The Birdman Alcatraz is there.
Speaker 2: The biggest creeps in America are locked up on the rock.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Trump made just another as and I announcement
Speaker 2: that probably won't happen because it's so stupid and unrealistic,
Speaker 2: but anyway, here it goes. He wants to reopen Alcatraz,
Speaker 2: the federal penitential that closed in nineteen sixty three. On
Speaker 2: Sunday Night on Truth, he announced quote build and open Alcatraz.
Speaker 2: For too long, America has been plagued by vicious, violent,
Speaker 2: and repeat criminal offenders, the dregs of society who will
Speaker 2: never contribute anything other than misery and suffering.
Speaker 1: When we were more, when we were.
Speaker 2: More serious nation, in times past, we did not hesitate
Speaker 2: to lock up the most dangerous criminals and keep them
Speaker 2: far away from anyone they could harm. That's the way
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: No longer will we tolerate right outside of San Francisco. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: No longer will we tolerate these serial offenders who spread filth,
Speaker 2: bloodshed and mayhem. Now he's like, I am now ordering
Speaker 2: the Department of Justice Bureau of Prisons to reopen and
Speaker 2: substantially enlarge and rebuild Alcatraz to how's America's most ruthless
Speaker 2: and violent offenders enlarge in Ireland?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: I feel I feel like there's some Freudian context there,
Speaker 3: make it bigger.
Speaker 1: I think I feel like it's a lot bigger, bigger,
Speaker 1: and like like the girth of the eye island should
Speaker 1: be big and it should go high. It should be
Speaker 1: longer than it should be girthy. Yes, that's the hands
Speaker 1: of justice need to be bigger.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly truly, And everyone's like, what the fuck is
Speaker 2: he talking about?
Speaker 1: Large? In large? Why are you looking, sir? Have you
Speaker 1: all ever been to Alcatraz? Oh? Yeah, yeah yeah, fourth grade? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's like it's not in good shape right, No,
Speaker 1: it's fucking crump. I remember we were.
Speaker 2: I remember being bummed out as a kid because it
Speaker 2: was so fucked up looking like I thought you'd be like,
Speaker 2: oh ship bro a because I went before the rock
Speaker 2: came out, and you know, you just had all these
Speaker 2: like ideas of your like, oh, man, like do people
Speaker 2: get eaten by sharks who try and get off? It's
Speaker 2: like it's all fun, and then it's just like the
Speaker 2: most run down federal concrete prison you've ever seen.
Speaker 1: It's like stuff dripping exactly. That's how we'll show them
Speaker 1: that they Yeah, I was gonna say it's gonna cost
Speaker 1: a lot of money to upgrade, but maybe maybe the
Speaker 1: point is not to upgrade it. I have a lot
Speaker 1: of money now that nobody is spending any money on
Speaker 1: toys because we can't get them and we're.
Speaker 2: Not living a thirty dollars economy anymore. But I mean again,
Speaker 2: you're like what prompted this? Just from reading that text,
Speaker 2: it sounds like a mix of frustration at judges for
Speaker 2: enforcing the constitution and being like, yeah, due process is
Speaker 2: at a minimum here or what the fuck are you thinking?
Speaker 1: And like you can't just you do. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do the process. You do process.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, and you can say that, sir, but
Speaker 2: the my order still stands. You cannot just disappear people
Speaker 2: to El Salvador, Like this is some kind of fucking
Speaker 2: Like really.
Speaker 1: You heard about the like terrifying prisons and El Salvador
Speaker 1: is like we need one of those, one of those
Speaker 1: going up here. Well, by comparison, it makes out the
Speaker 1: dress look good.
Speaker 2: I think maybe right, yeah, maybe, I mean, but I think,
Speaker 2: you know, like the other part is like the polls
Speaker 2: are shifting in all the wrong directions still, like there's
Speaker 2: another pole, like the holes came out now, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: it's all going down. He's losing his grip on reality
Speaker 2: and his bass, and I think especially with the economy
Speaker 2: and immigration being like he's scoring particularly low. Marx, I
Speaker 2: think reminding people that they live in some kind of
Speaker 2: fucked up combination between Thunderdome and The Rock, Like he's
Speaker 2: hoping to get people back in their back in touch
Speaker 2: with their cruel side again, because he was like, when
Speaker 2: we were more serious, we didn't hesitate to lock up
Speaker 2: the most, Like you know, he's clearly trying to evoke that,
Speaker 2: and I guess using the thought of Alcatraz to get
Speaker 2: people excited. But again, this is like something that most
Speaker 2: people don't even remember operating, and more people remember The
Speaker 2: Rock the movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he's aware of like the average of what
Speaker 1: everybody thinks, you know, like I just feel like he's
Speaker 1: tapped into like whatever version of reality was on television
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, and like that's what he's drawing on.
Speaker 1: And so like the Rock is most famous prison, and
Speaker 1: he's like and it's they say it's impossible to escape
Speaker 1: because the water is full of sharks. And it's like, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: if you're like paying attention now, like they people they
Speaker 1: do like recreational swims out to the rock and bag.
Speaker 1: It's a thing that people do for fun. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: gonna ripose Nicholas cage b our next National Tree. I think. Well.
Speaker 2: Later on, he said, and now I am calling on
Speaker 2: Brigadier General Francis X Hummel to be in charge. And
Speaker 2: someone told him that was Ed Harris's character in The
Speaker 2: Rock and from a harrow violent outburst when he said,
Speaker 2: I want General Humble now. But yeah, and like to
Speaker 2: your point, Jack, it does feel like someone left TNT
Speaker 2: on the TV on all weekend near Trump and he
Speaker 2: may be caught an hour of the Rock. But it
Speaker 2: turns out someone on Blue Sky may have an even
Speaker 2: more accurate prediction here as to what happened. Someone said
Speaker 2: last night on WPBT and Palm Beach, they broadcast the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine Clint Eastwood film Escape from Alcatraz. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, Trump was in Palm Beach that night.
Speaker 1: Oh and that's that's like you've never far into television
Speaker 1: a time. So that's definitely what happens. Definitely this is
Speaker 1: a good one. They say, we could escape. He's really
Speaker 1: good at distractions, right, like you know, the pull, like
Speaker 1: you said, the pultar shifting in the ront direction. For him,
Speaker 1: people are starting to get all this bad news, so
Speaker 1: he's like, what can I say that we'll get people
Speaker 1: to talk about something else. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like funny because it's like that's his instinct
Speaker 2: and he doesn't even like, oh, that's actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: Now they're not talking about all the ways the economy
Speaker 2: is falling apart and how shipments have declined and all
Speaker 2: these other myriad of problems. But also he gets to
Speaker 2: say a pretend thing that feels really nice in his brain.
Speaker 2: I mean, like everything he like thinks up has some
Speaker 2: direct connection to pop culture or film because a he
Speaker 2: can't read, so no new ideas are entering his brain
Speaker 2: like that. But then also like you you couple that
Speaker 2: up with the fact that like you know, he remember
Speaker 2: he's like obsessed with the gold in Fort Knox too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just it's truly like a just icon based
Speaker 1: view of the world where there's like, yeah, one famous prison,
Speaker 1: one famous like bank, or like gold vault, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know it also the stuff that was around and
Speaker 1: popular in the seventies when he was like coming of age,
Speaker 1: you know, wasn't there a Nicholas Cage will be about
Speaker 1: Fort Knox maybe, uh, the Constitution also, he loves to
Speaker 1: talk about the Constitution, that Nicholas Cage did steal the Constitution.
Speaker 2: I mean also then and at the end of the
Speaker 2: rock that you know they claim to see how JFK
Speaker 2: was killed if you remember on that micro feel is
Speaker 2: obsessed with that.
Speaker 1: Some could argue that he became president just so you
Speaker 1: could find out that give me the Nichols Cage.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's why he has the because I think he
Speaker 2: has a copy of the Constitution or maybe it's the
Speaker 2: Declaration of He has one of those seminole founding documents in.
Speaker 1: His behind it, yeah, behind his death. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 1: like maybe he's like pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Nicolas Cage won't be able to get his little fucking
Speaker 2: Coppola hands on it.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a nayless cage.
Speaker 2: His whole career is just him saying he's obsessed with
Speaker 2: him being a Coppola too, just like a weird fact.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's not.
Speaker 2: That's not his real last name. It's Francis Ford Coppola's
Speaker 2: nephew RFK Junior.
Speaker 1: How are we going to approach the face off question?
Speaker 1: I want to take his face and put it on mine.
Speaker 2: Which is funny. Maybe Trump could ask his friend Secretary
Speaker 2: Brainworm why his daddy shut the place down in nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty two when RFK was the Attorney General. Mistake because
Speaker 2: again for people don't realize, like why Alcatraz shut down.
Speaker 2: It cost way too much to operate since it was
Speaker 2: on a fucking island and everything there wasn't even fresh water,
Speaker 2: like a yeah, yeah, they had to bring tankers of
Speaker 2: like million gallons of time just to like replenish the
Speaker 2: fresh water supply on Alcatraz. It was also falling apart
Speaker 2: to the point where they're like, it's just going to
Speaker 2: get easier to escape, Like people are literally just like
Speaker 2: scraping away at the wall and swimming away like this
Speaker 2: isn't this isn't going to work, and also it can
Speaker 2: only it could only hold three hundred and thirty six inmates.
Speaker 1: Is that real? Yes, definitely worth whatever A billion dollar
Speaker 1: project that he's going to be putting together to try.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're saying, like a half billion will probably do.
Speaker 1: And you can only put people who don't know how
Speaker 1: to swim because otherwise right right exactly, yeah exactly, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's basically like shark infested water, which like we
Speaker 1: now know like sharks don't want to eat us, so
Speaker 1: like you just don't just don't get eaten by a shark.
Speaker 1: You pretty easy to just swim across the thing and
Speaker 1: not get eaten by sure plus, or you could just
Speaker 1: keep the prisoners fed and then they can't swim until
Speaker 1: after three minutes.
Speaker 2: Exactly, you don't want to swim after that, you just
Speaker 2: date you don't want Yeah, you can we feed them
Speaker 2: every thirty minutes to prevent them from swimming away. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: Just we're combining all kinds of myths.
Speaker 1: Now. It feels like the next thing he's going to
Speaker 1: attack is quicksand he's going to be like, we need
Speaker 1: to end quicksand in the United States, Like it feels
Speaker 1: like it's on the same level of like what a
Speaker 1: child in the nineteen seventies thought was like cool and
Speaker 1: scary and a big deal.
Speaker 2: I was wrong, Yeah, I was wrong about the border wall.
Speaker 2: We actually need to have a border of quicksand there
Speaker 2: we go. No one will be able to pass. That's
Speaker 2: my new idea. I'm again like he's at this rate,
Speaker 2: he should be talking about storming Area fifty one pretty soon.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, unless he has the key.
Speaker 1: Doesn't he have a doesn't he have the keys to it?
Speaker 2: I think he just hasn't seen a movie. I think
Speaker 2: he needs someone he's to show him Independence Day so
Speaker 2: he can realize what kind of treasures they got locked
Speaker 2: up in there.
Speaker 1: Just checked out this new movie Independence Day. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk Let's talk AI real quick, because this is
Speaker 1: something that I think ties into some of the hypnotism
Speaker 1: stuff that you covering your hypnotism episode. But basically I
Speaker 1: always remark on like how our modern technology seems designed
Speaker 1: to rob us of free will, and like how it's
Speaker 1: so much depressing when you like look around and just
Speaker 1: everybody's glued to their phone in just like on a
Speaker 1: college campus or in a cafeteria, just nobody's like looking
Speaker 1: at each other or interacting. Everybody's just at an feeling
Speaker 1: table every night. Yeah, like fifteen oh, no, like fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. If you just like transported somebody to this point,
Speaker 1: they'd be like, well, this looks like a fucking dystopia.
Speaker 1: Like everybody's just glued to their phone.
Speaker 2: And it's like the beginning of Shot of the Dead, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of likening our phones used to zombiism.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when on last week's episode with doctor Carrie mcnernie,
Speaker 1: you you had asked, like, is this AI going to
Speaker 1: be used to fuck with us? And more specifically like
Speaker 1: market to us?
Speaker 2: Right, because we're giving it all kinds of information about
Speaker 2: like what we like, what we want, how we want it,
Speaker 2: how to get there, how we even problem solve. It's
Speaker 2: so much more specific than like I spent ten minutes
Speaker 2: on this website. It's more like this person wants to
Speaker 2: figure out how they can increase their vertical jump at
Speaker 2: the age of forty. And now you know a lot
Speaker 2: about me and what my beliefs are ABU my physical reality,
Speaker 2: and I could probably be marketed supplements or something like that.
Speaker 1: And it knows how you talk, and therefore it knows
Speaker 1: how to talk back to you, which I guess is
Speaker 1: actually very successful or very important factor when it comes
Speaker 1: to like teaching people, like how to manipulate people is
Speaker 1: basically like if you can talk to them using some
Speaker 1: of the same kind of language and like it's like
Speaker 1: mirror field of ideas that they have, then yeah, like
Speaker 1: that these are the things that they're excited about. That
Speaker 1: a lot of the people who work in AI, Like
Speaker 1: so doctor Carrie like reached back out and was like, hey,
Speaker 1: you should check these articles out, Like that was a
Speaker 1: really good question, and the articles are terrifying. One is
Speaker 1: like a MIT like long academic paper that Jorge, You'd
Speaker 1: probably be better at deciphering than I would. But it's
Speaker 1: This Forbes article is interesting because it kind of presents
Speaker 1: it as like here's an exciting wing. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: as they put it, doing their best to hide their boner.
Speaker 1: AI assistance could start manipulating you into making decisions and
Speaker 1: then selling your plans to the highest bidder before you've
Speaker 1: even consciously made your mind up. AI agents, from chatbot
Speaker 1: assistants to digital tutors and girlfriends could exploit the access
Speaker 1: that they have to our psychological and behavioral data and
Speaker 1: manipulate our responses by mimicking personalities and anticipating desired responses.
Speaker 1: The fact that they even have the word manipulate, it's
Speaker 1: like the fusing. Like all of these technologies that I
Speaker 1: think the social media, like feeds and like the algorithms
Speaker 1: that they use, I think people just like took them
Speaker 1: at face value of like it's going to show me
Speaker 1: pictures that I want to see and people weren't like
Speaker 1: And they're working with the people who designed addictive gambling
Speaker 1: games to like figure out how to make it so
Speaker 1: that you never want to stop and like can't stop
Speaker 1: looking or interacting with the thing. So it's troubling. And
Speaker 1: it's like there's all sorts of really sophisticated ways that
Speaker 1: they're you know, manipulating or convincing or doing all these things.
Speaker 1: And I'm just curious Orge kind of as a former
Speaker 1: roboticist and somebody who's you know, recently done deep dives
Speaker 1: into things like hypnotism and stuff like that, like, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you think about this sort of thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think it kind of goes back to
Speaker 3: even the nineteen nineties you know what made Google so
Speaker 3: revolutionary and was that it was a good search engine,
Speaker 3: but it was good at giving you ads that it
Speaker 3: thought that you wanted to see, right, And so I
Speaker 3: think part of was this human humans kind of want that,
Speaker 3: you know, like we don't want to be shown as
Speaker 3: for things we don't would never buy or never want
Speaker 3: to see, right, We want to be shown as it
Speaker 3: kind of help us. And in fact, if you look
Speaker 3: at research into like happiness, like what makes people happy
Speaker 3: at some point, like having too many choices in your
Speaker 3: life makes you unhappy, right, yeah, in a way, like
Speaker 3: we kind of need help a little bit just helping
Speaker 3: us make decisions, and something that maybe helps you narrow
Speaker 3: your choices down can make you a little bit happier.
Speaker 3: But as you said, you know, humans have a long
Speaker 3: history of manipulating others, using whatever tools are available to
Speaker 3: manipulate others, and so yeah, you can definitely imagine that
Speaker 3: being used to like influence what you buy, what you
Speaker 3: what you're into. And what I learned from hypnotism looking
Speaker 3: into hypnotism for one of our episodes was and I
Speaker 3: actually got hypnotized in the episodes. We can talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about that if you like.
Speaker 1: Are you still under by the way right? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still hopping. That's why I do the show.
Speaker 1: I'm still hopping on one leg.
Speaker 3: Is that you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: you have a subconscious you know, then people can mess with,
Speaker 3: people can tread influence, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it's still your choice on things. You know, you're the
Speaker 3: one who's still give on things. You're the one who's
Speaker 3: making all of these options. And so yeah, there's totally
Speaker 3: the potential to influence people in a bad way in
Speaker 3: a good way, but hopefully people still exercise their free will, yeah.
Speaker 1: Or understand.
Speaker 2: I think that the very least people need to understand
Speaker 2: that their free will is under attack. I think that's
Speaker 2: the difference is that there's a lot of these passive
Speaker 2: ways that seemingly are like, well that's crazy. Instagram knows
Speaker 2: like what I want to buy, like every time, like
Speaker 2: I'm just buying stuff there, and I agree. Like there's
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like, oh shit, this is actually something I'm
Speaker 2: really interested in and I'm glad I found out about
Speaker 2: other times I'm like, who do you think I am?
Speaker 1: And why would I want this?
Speaker 2: But I think understanding how I think, really understanding how
Speaker 2: the people like from this MIT paper, like this is
Speaker 2: really chilling right from this MIT paper says quote, we
Speaker 2: survey recent efforts by tech executives to position the capture, manipulation,
Speaker 2: and commodification of human intentionality as a lucrative parallel to
Speaker 2: and viable extension of the now dominant attention economy, which
Speaker 2: has bent consumers, civic and media norms around users finite
Speaker 2: attention span since the nineteen nineties. We call this follow
Speaker 2: on the intention economy of like to understand it's like, yes,
Speaker 2: we have our free will, but also know that there
Speaker 2: are people that are at these levers that can absolutely
Speaker 2: have an effect on what we perceive to be like
Speaker 2: the decisions we're making independently. And I think that's the
Speaker 2: part I think to get in touch with a little more,
Speaker 2: because I think as long as you know that that
Speaker 2: that's better than like talking to like one of my
Speaker 2: older parents who has no dude. My mom showed me
Speaker 2: this AI slop video and she's like, why would this
Speaker 2: giraffe do this? And I was like, Mom, no, Like
Speaker 2: if it felt like I was watching her turn into
Speaker 2: like a smith or something like with her.
Speaker 1: Red, I say why I did this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, bullshit, let it go.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the second I told her, like all these things
Speaker 2: just start up, She's like, oh shit, I didn't. She's like,
Speaker 2: it's the first time I saw anything like this. But
Speaker 2: now this makes sense because other people I know will
Speaker 2: talk about things like this. I think we have to
Speaker 2: at least have that attention on it to help safeguard.
Speaker 3: There's definitely like a line right where you know, if
Speaker 3: you're paying for an AI to help you and it
Speaker 3: actually has your best interests in mind and really wants
Speaker 3: to give you something that you might like, then I
Speaker 3: think that can be helpful. But if you or if
Speaker 3: they don't tell you that they're also taking money from
Speaker 3: an advertiser to try to feed you these things, then
Speaker 3: that's what gets really sketch or a political campaign or
Speaker 3: candidate or party.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all like that's the thing is like,
Speaker 2: as these tools get developed, like very quickly, a fork
Speaker 2: is in the road where it's like, do you do
Speaker 2: the thing that you do right by human beings or
Speaker 2: do you do the thing that you have a very
Speaker 2: lucrative party trick you can sell companies.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a metaphor that a lot of people
Speaker 1: use that has I've always used because I think, without
Speaker 1: realizing it, it gives me hope and like comfort, which
Speaker 1: is like in a few years, like people are going
Speaker 1: to look back on everybody having like kids all having
Speaker 1: screens and like everybody just like being on their screens
Speaker 1: at all times of the day, the way we look
Speaker 1: back on like the nineteen fifties and sixties and everybody smoking,
Speaker 1: and that I think gives me comfort because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but then we got over that. You know, we've realized
Speaker 1: that that was bad for us and we stopped doing it.
Speaker 1: But like in order to make smoking illegal, like that
Speaker 1: was a multi tied decade like battle where we were like, no,
Speaker 1: the like look at these charts, like it's the science
Speaker 1: is inarguable, Like it is literally like there's a smoking
Speaker 1: gun here, like this is you are being killed by
Speaker 1: these cigarettes. And like even then, just the forces of
Speaker 1: like capital that we're behind smoking, we're just like we're
Speaker 1: still wait, we're still holding a wait and see position
Speaker 1: on Errand I just I don't think we're going to
Speaker 1: get that smoking gun with phones like I think because
Speaker 1: it's more of a like spiritual thing. You know, it's
Speaker 1: more of a phenomenological like I don't know, like if
Speaker 1: you ask yourself ten years ago, if you showed yourself
Speaker 1: a video of like what your family dinner looks like today,
Speaker 1: like where everybody's just on their phones and not looking
Speaker 1: at each other, and like there are ads that like
Speaker 1: make fun of the idea of like trying to have
Speaker 1: a family dinner without phones like that. That's one of
Speaker 1: the ads that keeps running in the NBA playoffs is
Speaker 1: like people being like, let's just put our phones away
Speaker 1: real quick and then have a conversation. And then somebody
Speaker 1: says something really boring and they're like, okay, back to phones.
Speaker 1: Back to phone, Like it's a fucking bummer. Like, but
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's gonna be enough to make
Speaker 1: it like a smoking gun, where we like get rid
Speaker 1: of the technology.
Speaker 3: That's a great analogy though with smoking Maybe maybe need
Speaker 3: to start with restaurants, you know, my restaurants need to
Speaker 3: have like a no phone.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like that would be trendy, but
Speaker 1: it would never like take over, like the Surgeon General
Speaker 1: is never gonna be like you must.
Speaker 2: Maybe it happened where they're like there was a this guy,
Speaker 2: the sushi chef Nozawa, who if you've heard of the
Speaker 2: sugarfish like restaurant chain, it's comes from this guy in Nozawa.
Speaker 2: And when he like he started off with a small
Speaker 2: sushi shop on Ventura Boulevard in the valley, and when
Speaker 2: cell phones became a thing because a ton of studio
Speaker 2: people would go in there, he had a no cell
Speaker 2: phone pot Like he would throw fucking people out mid.
Speaker 1: Meal for picking up a phone.
Speaker 2: Call, and it became legendary. But then it was like
Speaker 2: then very quickly he like gave up.
Speaker 1: He's like, I can't, I can't baddle every he gave up.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean because I think once you throw out a
Speaker 2: few studio executives, probably it becomes bad for business exactly.
Speaker 1: And like I mean think about like this is phones
Speaker 1: are going to be or you know, AI assistants are
Speaker 1: going to be how like all business is conducted. So
Speaker 1: I'm assuming also will be seen as bad for business
Speaker 1: to institute laws Like I just think it's going to
Speaker 1: be on us to make these decisions to like, you know,
Speaker 1: live with free will or not. And I think like
Speaker 1: to the you know, one of the key takeaways from
Speaker 1: your hypnotism episode is like, you can't be hypnotized into
Speaker 1: doing something you don't want to do. But I also
Speaker 1: to the to the point that you just raised, like
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will want the AI
Speaker 1: assistant to just like be like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I got a lot going on, Like you just take
Speaker 1: it from here, serious.
Speaker 3: Show me something that I'm gonna it's gonna relax me.
Speaker 3: But I think where it gets tricky is kind of
Speaker 3: the socioeconomical part, right, Like, yeah, people people who can
Speaker 3: afford it will pay for the like the clean, neutral,
Speaker 3: nice version of AI. But people who can afford it
Speaker 3: will have to you know, add supported versions and add
Speaker 3: hypnotize you know, add subliminal messages version because that's what
Speaker 3: they can afford.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's very I mean, like I'm
Speaker 2: also like, from a scientific perspective, do you ever worry
Speaker 2: about like you you hear a lot about like language
Speaker 2: gemony and research and how like the English language dominates
Speaker 2: a lot of scientific research and as a result, it
Speaker 2: causes research and other language to languages to not get
Speaker 2: as much attention as maybe it could be. Or also,
Speaker 2: other people have pointed out that It's like, if everyone
Speaker 2: thinks in the same language, certain mistakes can happen because
Speaker 2: you're using everyone's sort of using the same language linguistic
Speaker 2: pathways to arrive at a solution where it's like varied
Speaker 2: forms of languages have different sort of pathways to solve
Speaker 2: a problem just based on how the language is structured.
Speaker 2: I wonder too, if, like with the proliferation of people
Speaker 2: using AI more and more, if that is just now
Speaker 2: another layer of vulnerability where there's like a version where
Speaker 2: people aren't giving it the same kind of vetting or
Speaker 2: analysis as they would because they're presuming it to be
Speaker 2: completely correct.
Speaker 1: And then does that lead to some kind of what
Speaker 1: is this going to do for? Yeah, what is this
Speaker 1: going to do for like outside the box thinking? When
Speaker 1: you have a thing doing your thinking for you that
Speaker 1: is just drawing on all previous thoughts and remixing it.
Speaker 1: It's like, yes, we're not going to have a lot
Speaker 1: of cool new ideas coming through. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: And you know for sure, like scientists definitely talk about,
Speaker 3: you know, having a common language. You know you kind
Speaker 3: of need that in order to exchange ideas about sciences.
Speaker 3: Kind of hard to do it through translator, so that
Speaker 3: a little bit of that is inevitable. But you know,
Speaker 3: I always take comfort in the fact that if you
Speaker 3: ever talk to a scientist or any scientists, their dream
Speaker 3: is to be like the one person who's contrariant who turns.
Speaker 1: Out to be right, you know, to be the person
Speaker 1: who's revolutionary, the big short of science, the scientific Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everyone wants to be the person who up ends the field,
Speaker 1: or everyone wants to be the person who proves everyone right.
Speaker 1: So my feeling is like, hopefully and this will continue,
Speaker 1: is that science is kind of set up so that,
Speaker 1: you know, people are always questioning the assumptions that aren't
Speaker 1: being made and the results that are being come out.
Speaker 1: So that's my hope in the parents that that continues.
Speaker 1: You're doing that from China, they will not be doing
Speaker 1: it from the United States. Well, yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that also.
Speaker 2: I definitely agree with that because I feel like the
Speaker 2: people that have been most vocal about questioning AI have
Speaker 2: been scientists and researchers because they're also just sort of like, well,
Speaker 2: it does these things, fine, let's really talk about everything,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I guess I never think about like yeah
Speaker 2: much in this saying yeah, people want like, that's that's
Speaker 2: the high you would chase as a researcher or a scientist.
Speaker 2: It's like, do you fucking overlook this?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, so yeah, maybe we do have something
Speaker 2: in built there and the sciences that will help.
Speaker 1: How annoying scientists are?
Speaker 3: Yeah, people say there's three kinds of scientists. The scientist
Speaker 3: who first poses a question, and the scientist who answers
Speaker 3: the question, and then everyone in between, who nobody ever remembers.
Speaker 1: Right, damn, damn.
Speaker 2: Now watch we peel this banana from the tip end.
Speaker 2: Have you seen somebody open a banana from the tip end?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I've been the person who thought that was
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it, the better way to
Speaker 1: do it, that's the way to do it. It's actually easier. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: there's there is a trade of but we can't get
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, no, and I need to know because
Speaker 2: we're just talking about contrarians. And I saw somebody's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: let me open this banana for your kid. I said,
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you doing it?
Speaker 3: From that in front there's a banana, right, there's the
Speaker 3: part that stems that conneice to the rest of the planet.
Speaker 3: That that's not the tail, right that you would call
Speaker 3: the other end the tail where it ends.
Speaker 2: They oh wait, I'm calling it from the stem. I
Speaker 2: open it from the stem end.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Yeah, that's how I've always done it. But
Speaker 3: recently I got shown that trick too of opening it
Speaker 3: from the tip end. And it is easier, especially if
Speaker 3: the banana is not quite ripe, like if it's a
Speaker 3: little green and it's it's kind of hard to open
Speaker 3: it from the step in. Then it's a lot easier
Speaker 3: to just squeeze the tip. Uh, and then then it
Speaker 3: just kind of opens up.
Speaker 1: Oh so it changed me when I saw and we're
Speaker 1: about to bring us to our next subject after the break,
Speaker 1: we're seeing a gorilla open a banana where they just
Speaker 1: break it, snap it in half, and then just like
Speaker 1: kind of shoot it out. That might be easier, yet
Speaker 1: you're grilla. They half. Yeah, you break it and they
Speaker 1: break pretty easy. I highly recommend it. It's a great feeling.
Speaker 1: I've broke.
Speaker 2: I nearly broke my hands trying to break it.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm telling you the Miles, you're not in
Speaker 1: my one hundred banana. Like Miles hooped the banana. We
Speaker 1: need that in a distraction. Let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: We'll come back and talk about the most important scientific
Speaker 1: question of the day. We'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back, all right, Warhead. Here it is. We've been
Speaker 1: We've been debating this one all last week of the
Speaker 1: internet has been to be debating it. Curious to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts. Where do you fall one hundred men versus
Speaker 1: one gorilla? Fight to the death? I guess is the terms?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I definitely have opinions because my kids
Speaker 3: have asked me this question. Yeah, definitely, the whole internet
Speaker 3: is talking about it. I think it's an interesting question
Speaker 3: just because there are so many ifs about it, you know, right,
Speaker 3: like so many if questions, like it tip the scale
Speaker 3: towards the gorilla or towards the human, and so it's
Speaker 3: like this endless source of opinions about what might or
Speaker 3: might not happen. Yeah, Like does the gorilla fight each
Speaker 3: human one by one? Does it have territorial advantage? Like
Speaker 3: is it at the top of a hill or at
Speaker 3: the end of the hallway? Can the humans communicate? Like
Speaker 3: there's all these possibilities that you know, lend lend themselves
Speaker 3: to people having different thoughts about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like if we're if it's on a hill,
Speaker 1: then can't you just like pick up a rock. Can't
Speaker 1: the humans pick up a rock? What if them like
Speaker 1: pitched college like in college, like was a baseball pitcher
Speaker 1: in college, Like, then that's going to really tilt the
Speaker 1: scales in one direction or the other. Yeah, are the
Speaker 1: one hundred people do you get to choose them? Are
Speaker 1: they just like did they use a randomizer to select
Speaker 1: these one hundred people and they have no preparation there? Are?
Speaker 1: You're right, like, there's a lot of ways that can
Speaker 1: shift it in the direction of I think the one gorilla,
Speaker 1: like you, I could see like if it was one
Speaker 1: hundred people and like some of them are just like
Speaker 1: waking up and some of them, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: just randomly at all random times of the day and
Speaker 1: they're thrown into a thing and then told like ten
Speaker 1: at a time, one at a time, like then right here,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in trouble. But so I think we
Speaker 1: need to imagine like what is the scenario, right? Is it?
Speaker 1: I think it most people think of it as like
Speaker 1: an open field. You get a gorilla, you get a
Speaker 1: hundred humans, random humans or average humans, right, pretty much
Speaker 1: like average humans. Yeah, I think that's probably right, Like
Speaker 1: we use a randomizer and it's just one hundred random humans.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. I think they have to because that is
Speaker 1: what humans do. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think if that's the scenario, I would
Speaker 3: fall on the Carriger saying that it all depends on
Speaker 3: one key question, which is who is more mode exactly,
Speaker 3: Like if the gorilla doesn't really want to fight, and
Speaker 3: then the humans are all the humans are like why
Speaker 3: are we here? I don't know what we're supposed to
Speaker 3: attack this gorilla, then basically no fight is going to happen, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: If the gorilla feels strengned and the gorilla is like
Speaker 3: I need to I need to murder these humans, then
Speaker 3: I think it's on you know, yeah, and I think
Speaker 3: or the gorillas pass it, but you offer all the
Speaker 3: one hundred humans, Hey, I'll give you a hundred million
Speaker 3: dollars to basically take out these gorilla game style.
Speaker 2: That game really quick game motivation.
Speaker 1: This is the thing.
Speaker 2: So over the weekend I was like, look, I was
Speaker 2: reading constant articles written by primatologists about this, and a
Speaker 2: I came run to the fact that sadly, a gorilla
Speaker 2: would not not sad I don't know why sadly because
Speaker 2: I've been so team gorilla will fucking destroy these hundred people.
Speaker 2: The gorilla would lose to one hundred people was something
Speaker 2: every primatologist was like, there's no, it's just too many people.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the other part, which is what shamed me. All
Speaker 2: the primatologists are also like, but also shame on everyone
Speaker 2: for why are you even thinking this up? Gorillas are
Speaker 2: some of the most gentle creatures, with the capacity for emotion,
Speaker 2: to play gently with their children, like their partners, the
Speaker 2: other people, like in their community, and this is just
Speaker 2: creating a very weird image of an animal that would
Speaker 2: a most likely just try to escape.
Speaker 1: They were like, a lot of people are like, a.
Speaker 2: Gorilla would not have no interest in taking on one
Speaker 2: hundred human beings, So just by virtue of that, they're like,
Speaker 2: the people would probably win. But there was one guy
Speaker 2: who went on that I think is a Danlebotard show
Speaker 2: where painted a pretty vivid picture. The guy was like,
Speaker 2: I think you should not be entertaining this morbid thing,
Speaker 2: but yet again, but here I am entertaining it.
Speaker 1: So this is what I'm saying so.
Speaker 2: This one prim say was like, fuck it, you want
Speaker 2: an answer, this is how it would go down, And
Speaker 2: he said, we're both saying. The one hundred men would
Speaker 2: have to be quote committed, and it would have to
Speaker 2: go in united They said, that doesn't mean it would
Speaker 2: be pretty. The human salt force quote would have to
Speaker 2: expect severe collateral damage that could easily include death from
Speaker 2: broken necks, severe arterial bite wounds, massive concussions leading to
Speaker 2: fatal brain bleeds, and asphyxiation from other men piling on
Speaker 2: top of them. It could be a Kamakaze mission for
Speaker 2: the men closest.
Speaker 1: To the gorilla.
Speaker 2: That's why you're willing to accept this. The group should
Speaker 2: be able to overtake the gorilla and inflict enough blunt
Speaker 2: force trauma combined with severe twisting of the head and neck,
Speaker 2: well simultaneously afflicting severe abdominal punches that the gorilla would
Speaker 2: eventually succumb to either a broken neck.
Speaker 1: Internal or damage, or asphyxiation.
Speaker 2: Then I think afterwards I was like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Okay, don't make it real. This is not as much
Speaker 1: fun anymore. It's like one of those things.
Speaker 2: Once you really dig in and it takes a sign
Speaker 2: to be like, okay, you really want to have your
Speaker 2: little fucking game like theater animation where people went.
Speaker 1: There, your mind is yeah, yeah, I hope.
Speaker 2: You're going to bite a gorilla's throat off at least
Speaker 2: seven of you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like it really comes
Speaker 1: down to the flight fight or flight response, you know,
Speaker 1: like if it's a life for that situation, then it's
Speaker 1: really one. And where my head went to as the roboticist,
Speaker 1: was like, this is I think it might help to
Speaker 1: think of this as the equivalent of like you, like
Speaker 1: you or me, or an average person fighting one hundred
Speaker 1: six graders right right for Einstein level geniuses right now,
Speaker 1: if this was because one hundred kids, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's like two school buses full of kids. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, if this was a normal situation, you
Speaker 1: might be able to scare off a few of the kids.
Speaker 1: But if now, let's say, let let's make the kids
Speaker 1: robots with like murderous programming and they're all trying to
Speaker 1: get you, like, do you really think you'd send a
Speaker 1: chance against one hundred murderous sixth grade geniuses? Right? Maybe not?
Speaker 1: Sup producer bay I just pointed out that there was
Speaker 1: a show called Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
Speaker 1: And the physical challenge at the end was exactly what
Speaker 1: you're describing, would then have to take, would have to
Speaker 1: take on thirty Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff Fox, No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think they did that and that and we're
Speaker 1: now realizing that was a massive missed opportunity on their part.
Speaker 1: The suffocation from like the crushing is actually a really
Speaker 1: good point. I feel like, yeah, well, the the way
Speaker 1: so many people die and like those crowd deaths where
Speaker 1: like stamping everything, so really yeah, I know, but it's
Speaker 1: basically all the weight from the back of the crowd
Speaker 1: pushes in on the people at the front of the crowd.
Speaker 1: So for all, if we're assuming all one hundred people
Speaker 1: are going, then everybody at the front is not going
Speaker 1: to make it, But neither is the grilla I'm assuming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm now just like I'm like, I've just been
Speaker 2: so thoroughly shamed by science. Now I'm like, this is
Speaker 2: obviously not even you. Well, it's it's meant to feed
Speaker 2: this dark darkness about our society that we can't contend with.
Speaker 3: And it goes back to being kids, like I volunteered
Speaker 3: at my daughter's school. I've read like one of the
Speaker 3: most popular book series that kids check out. It's like
Speaker 3: Shark versus Yeah, you know, octopus or shark. You know,
Speaker 3: gorilla versus tiger. Who's gonna win? Yeah, my kids will
Speaker 3: check that book out too. The Yeah, the good thing
Speaker 3: is it has a definitive answer that is in no
Speaker 3: way you know, scientific, but is very confident, like the
Speaker 3: shark actually wins this one.
Speaker 2: Remember they're like YouTube videos where people were doing like
Speaker 2: insect Battle Royale death matches and you're like scorpion verse
Speaker 2: tarantula and you're like oh shit, and all those just
Speaker 2: got too real and you're like, oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was better when I thought of them as like
Speaker 2: Transformers characters. Yeah, it's like, well, the autobot defeat the
Speaker 2: dino con.
Speaker 1: I don't know my fucked up brain. Immediately, when you
Speaker 1: were talking about the primatologists being like the gorillas are
Speaker 1: really like gentle I was like, oh, they don't have
Speaker 1: that dog in them all, right, Grizzly bear moving moving on,
Speaker 1: a grizzly Bear soldier. This hypothetical question, okay, how about this? Sorry?
Speaker 2: Who what is the animal? That would suck up one
Speaker 2: hundred men.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, you know, I mean probably a hippo.
Speaker 1: I mean if if we're yeah, I think a hippo
Speaker 1: probably could do it. See now we're like pivoting hard
Speaker 1: is like hippo is also like the water a lot
Speaker 1: of the time, Like that's anything that's in water. You're
Speaker 1: just sending a bunch of people in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fighting on there. I think I think I have the answer. Yes,
Speaker 1: as they say, the most dangerous animal is the human.
Speaker 1: The human being one human versus one hundred humans, were
Speaker 1: one human highly trained person with maybe resources might be
Speaker 1: the most dangerous.
Speaker 2: Animals and has to get a new adagn they're like,
Speaker 2: how about one man versus one hundred with a rifle?
Speaker 1: Thank you? All right, we didn't get we didn't get
Speaker 1: a chance to get to less important questions like our
Speaker 1: near death experience is real? And uh, what's it like
Speaker 1: to live and poop in space? So people are gonna
Speaker 1: have to the Near Death Experiences episode. By the way,
Speaker 1: I highly recommend people check it out because it's, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like all the stuff that I had heard and
Speaker 1: then like at a certain point been like this can't
Speaker 1: all be true. Like is real. Like the people across
Speaker 1: different cultures describe the same experience, but like because they
Speaker 1: have different backgrounds, they like use different words. So like
Speaker 1: they describe like tunnels in America, but like in cultures
Speaker 1: that haven't had experiences with tunnels, that'll be like caves
Speaker 1: or you know, pipes in some places. And that the
Speaker 1: experiences are very common across like a chunk of near
Speaker 1: death experiences and then they're really interesting. Reason for that
Speaker 1: that has to do with like LSD and bring chemicals.
Speaker 1: It is really cool. Magic mushrooms yeah, magic mushrooms. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So highly recommend people go check it out or hey,
Speaker 1: where can people find that show? Find you all that
Speaker 1: kod stuff? Yeah, it's an iHeartRadio show. It's called science stuff.
Speaker 1: That's one word, science stuff, and you can find it
Speaker 1: anywhere you listen to podcasts like this one. There you go,
Speaker 1: And is there a work of media that you've been
Speaker 1: enjoying or social media? I have been enjoying it a
Speaker 1: work of media. And this goes a little bit into
Speaker 1: my free will being subverted, which is that my kids
Speaker 1: are really into Korean culture, going back to Korea capop
Speaker 1: groups and so, and they use my YouTube account in
Speaker 1: my Spotify account, and so whenever I hop onto any
Speaker 1: of these platforms, I get inundated with K pop stuff
Speaker 1: which I've grown too late. So there's some really fun
Speaker 1: creative stuff going under, So check it out.
Speaker 2: Any artists specifically you want to shut up?
Speaker 1: Well, I think I think I need to consider myself
Speaker 1: an icon. Now, Cat's Eye fan, Okay, my son is
Speaker 1: straight Kids Yeah yeah, BTS Black Tank, Black Tank Huge,
Speaker 1: And I think that's about where my knowledge of K
Speaker 1: pop ends in terms of names. Amazing miles Where can
Speaker 1: people find you as their working media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you can find me everywhere they have at Symbols,
Speaker 2: at Miles of Gray. You can find me lamenting the
Speaker 2: very hasty exit of the Lakers.
Speaker 1: It was painless.
Speaker 2: Look, someone had to go in first to fight the
Speaker 2: Gorilla and the Lakers. Oh that's a better mean. Who
Speaker 2: would win a Grizzly Bear or the Lakers depends on
Speaker 2: who the coach is, you know, unleash that bench, bro,
Speaker 2: I'm the forty year old Lebron's gonna get washed. And
Speaker 2: also find that's on Booty is find me talking ninety
Speaker 2: Dan on four to twenty Day Fiance work of media.
Speaker 2: I'm liking just the rehearsal, just the rehearsal that's been watched.
Speaker 1: Episode three was good.
Speaker 2: Her Majesty was out of town this weekend on a trip,
Speaker 2: so I sat on it because I didn't, you know,
Speaker 2: whenever you're watching Victor and the Chad just said bru bro.
Speaker 2: Also yesterday and our another group chat that we had
Speaker 2: with Anna Superducer Ana Jose, she was just even like,
Speaker 2: y'all this next episode.
Speaker 1: Every weekend because she's on.
Speaker 2: The East Coast, She's always like, guys, this next one
Speaker 2: fucking destroyed. It's like that's the energy she always has
Speaker 2: in describing this show. So anyway, check out.
Speaker 1: The rehearsal in the Fielder. No. You can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter at jack Underscore, Brian blue Sky at jack
Speaker 1: Obi the number one working media I've been enjoying at
Speaker 1: Kyle Train Emoji tweeted Jackie Chan accidentally getting stuck inside
Speaker 1: a gorilla costume and then having to fight off one
Speaker 1: hundred guys. That's I mean, that's such a good pitch.
Speaker 1: That's the ultimate Jackie Chan scene. You can find us
Speaker 1: on Twitter and blue Sky at Daily Zeitgeist, where at
Speaker 1: the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. You can go to the
Speaker 1: description of this episode wherever you're listening to it, and
Speaker 1: there you will find the footnotes, which is where we
Speaker 1: link off to the information that we talked about in
Speaker 1: today's episode. We also link off to a song that
Speaker 1: we think you might enjoy. Miles, is there a song
Speaker 1: that you think people might enjoy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a new track from the Baltimore based like
Speaker 2: hardcore punk band called Turnstyle. This new track is called
Speaker 2: never Enough and the guitars just like just the production,
Speaker 2: it's very I don't know, it feels very like nineties
Speaker 2: alternative in a way, like the way the guitar or
Speaker 2: the guitar distortion hits my brain. It's I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I feel like I'm listening to k Rocket, like
Speaker 2: ninety eight or something. But anyway, all their stuff is
Speaker 2: really dope. But this is one of their newest tracks
Speaker 2: called never Enough, by the group Turnstyle.
Speaker 1: Check in right. We will look off to that in
Speaker 1: the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for us this morning. We're
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all then.
Speaker 2: Bye bye by The Daily Zeitgeist is executive produced by
Speaker 2: Catherine Law.
Speaker 1: Co produced by Bee Wang, co produced by Victor Wright
Speaker 2: Co written by J M McNabb, Edited and engineered by
Speaker 2: Justin Conner,